Speaker 1: Hey much as we'll be on the winning team. Hello
and welcome Jay, and thank you so much for joining
us once again on Legalized freedom dot Com.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Greg. It's pleasure to be back.
Speaker 1: Okay, Jay, Today we're doing part three of our little
interview series discussing your book Esoteric Hollywood Sex Cults and
Symbols in Film, And of course we've been getting into
a lot of other related things that you didn't necessarily
cover in the book. Do recommend people hop back and
listen to the first two installments, which the links to
which can be found on the web page for this
particular section. So with that in mind, we're going to
go straight in to continue our chat. All the preamble
stuff that about your book, et cetera, et cetera can
be found either in one of the other interviews or
at the end of this one. So now two things
that we threaten to talk about last two occasions. Where
first movie was Zardols from nineteen seventy four. That's a
film by director John Burman and star Sean Connery, of
all people, not long after he actually finished up his
second stint as James Bond. Now Berman is perhaps better known,
I guess One of his best known films is probably
Deliverance with Burt Reynolds and John Voight and the other
guy whose name I can't remember, the fat Dude, and.
Speaker 2: A very wholesome family film.
Speaker 1: It is, Yeah, no, and also excalib.
Speaker 2: When I say when I say family, I mean that
in a very extreme sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd like to keep it in the family.
And so, yeah, people haven't seen Deliverance that they really
do need to do that. It's still actually has not.
We're not here Destiny to talk about that, but for
me that that film still has the power to shock.
Even though I've watched it quite a few times, you
know that there's definitely something about it that's so you.
Speaker 2: Can go about thirty minutes from where I am and
find people living in conditions fairly close to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or you could not do that. You could just
stay in town and lock your doors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we were talking about the Mullet people. But yeah,
we were talking the first episode, and yeah, it gets
worse than just the Mullets. I mean, the South has
a lot of great points to it, but there really
are still some of those you know, very destitute backwoods
times people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wrong, turn type stuff. M HM and Excalibur is
another one of John Berman's films that's his Arthurian, his
take on the Arthurian legend, which I always think.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's interesting, it's very gnostic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is. Rather it is rather, But I say,
I wanted really to talk about zar Doors because this
fits in with some of the themes that we picked
up last time, last two times, specifically talking about science
fiction distilly is, you know, visions of the future. Also
things being laid out in decades gone by that would
very much tie in with things that have happened since,
particularly in the realms of technology, science and society, and
things that look a lot closer to happening than they
did back and movies such as this kind of laid
them out. So Zardos is an interesting film. I mean
visually I find it quite ravishing. Really, there's just so
many points of interest, so many scenes and sections that
he just kind of go wow, you know, look at that.
Particularly at the time. It's one of those things where
I can't quite imagine what it would be like going
to the movies to see that for the first time.
Speaker 2: My underwear shaken not starred.
Speaker 1: Hey, listen, you gotta love Sean Connery, haven't you. Really.
He's one of those actors that he hasn't got any
other accents.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not the only one, and I'm in
my underwear.
Speaker 1: Appreciate it. I'm not quite sure how he got interacting.
I know he used to be a milkman. He seems
to be a guy that's kind of can act up
to a point, if you see what I mean. But
he's never he's never bravely taken on.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I hadn't thought about that, but yeah,
and he wasn't, you know, originally the choice for Bond.
That was a lot of other people that were in
the running first, and you know, Patrick McGowan and people
like that. But yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't really
know a lot about his background.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Patrick mcgooin, who well, by the way, in case,
I don't know what you call them or if you
ever had milkman in the US, but basically it's kind
of dayed out now, but for many years in Britain
you would often get your milk delivered to your door
right by a dairy company and they just drove around
in these little electric trucks. Delivering milk. It seems bizarre, no, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had the US had that like in the
fifties and sixties, and I think it kind of died
out by the seventies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well Sean Connery used to do that. But anyway,
the point about his accent is no matter what film
he's in, it's the same, isn't it. Highlander Scottish accents.
Speaker 2: That's a good point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hunt for Red October Scottish accent.
Speaker 2: Well, I was just on a podcast and we were
talking about this the other day, and we were it
was funny because it's like all of those big time
A listers that reach a certain level, you know, they
pretty much just play themselves over and over, and some
of them even joke about it, like like Jack Nicholson,
you know, he just always plays Jack Nicholson.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Al Pacino was always al Pacino. Robert and Narrow is
always Robert in Niro.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a there's a little comedy show here
that ran for a few years called Stella Street here
in the UK. It's a cult thing. Almost no one's
ever heard of it, but it involves a lot of
movie stars who all live together on the same Street,
and it's it's totally unlikely because it's a mixture of
Hollywood people. I mean, Jack Nicholson lives there, Al Pacino
lives there, Joe Peshi lives there, but even Michael Kane
lives there, Roger Murr lives there, and they're all they're
all next door neighbors. And on the shop on the corner,
the seven eleven is run by Mick and Keith from
the Rolling Stones, and it's.
Speaker 2: Just it's a great idea. I don't know why that
didn't work.
Speaker 1: It's as well, it's just I just think it was
just too too weird for people. But anyway that they
take the piss out of Jack Nicholson in that one,
because he keeps getting these new rules and he's always
trying out for them, you know, see what the other
guys on the street think of it. At one point
he actually gets a job as a Scottish detective, you know,
detective based up in Glasgow Capital or not Captain Tucker
in Scotland. And at one point and he's saying to
like he say, He's saying to whoever it is, Dustin Hoffman,
He's trying and saying, I've just taken on a role
as a hard nosed cop from Glascow. That's the voice
he's gonna do, you know, let me let me.
Speaker 2: I gotta do my jack.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah, please do if you could, if you
could say, hey, do your jack and try saying that
you're a hard nursed cop from Glasgow.
Speaker 2: A right, let me do my jack line first, and
then I'll try that line. I gotta warm up.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Well, my wife Wendy's a confirmed horror film fanatic. Was
that any good?
Speaker 1: That's pretty good? Better than I can do for sure.
Speaker 2: And so what's the line, I'm a hard.
Speaker 1: Nursed cop from Glasgow.
Speaker 2: Well, I am a hard nosed cop from Glasgow.
Speaker 1: Perfect, So anyway Connory Connory, Yeah, So it's like Scottish
accent all away, and he's star of Zardal's Fizzardoza mckello,
which is not really how he sounds, but that's if
you take it to an extreme Scottish accent, that's what
you end up with. Zardals. I'm going to get you
to give listeners your take on that movie in just
a second. But it's interesting for a number of reasons,
not only because Connery was playing something clearly that he
had no need to do. I'm not quite sure what
appealed to him about the idea, but he went with
it anyway. And after the success of Deliverance, it seems
to me that director John Berman was basically given Kurt
Blanche by the studio to say, Okay, that was a
big success. You can just do some insane project that
you've been ad up your sleeve for a while.
Speaker 2: Well, the tagline is funny, it's beyond nineteen eighty four,
beyond two thousand and one, It's beyond love and death.
So you get the Nietzschean themes of two thousand and
one that are pretty overt with you know, the Wagner
piece that Kuber played, and then the idea, you know,
Bowman kind of transcending limitations of time and space, which
was my analysis of two thousand and one, and here
we're trying to go for something even beyond that, and
you know it's going to have the dystopian themes, as
the tagline says, with nineteen eighty four, but you know
what everyone remembers as Sean Connery and underwear. But the
odd thing is that there this movie is really deep.
I mean, it's got a lot of symbolism. It's just
packed with all these Masonic and esoteric themes. And I
think the first thing that comes to mind in regard
to what you said is Sean Connery seems to have
a penchant for roles related to Masonry. Now I don't
know for certain what his you know, Like I said,
I don't know his background. I don't know a whole
lot about him personally, but you know, he chose the
man who would be king, I think probably because of
that Masonic theme where he plays this con man basically
who's you know, portraying himself as the reincarnation of Alexander
the Great. And this is to fool a whole bunch
of these sort of primitive people, and Himalayas are somewhere,
and by extension, you know, Michael Kaine's there and they're
they're both going to live as kings, you know, in
a more primitive existence and so forth, and this it
doesn't work, and then they get basically run out of
the the village and h But it's very very Masonic.
And of course Kipling's story would have all that Masonic
imagery and thematic elements for a reason, because I'm sure
he was you know, tied into that, and in my view,
you know, there's a lot of scholarship that's been done
on masonry as kind of the outpost of the British
Empire that that the the lodges kind of function as
these networks for you know, spying on people and transferring
secrets and so anywhere that the Empire would extend, you
would have you know, the British lodge system set up.
So that's kind of what I think is in the
movie with men who would be king, and so you'll
see Connery a lot of times taking those kinds of
roles and he's very much in a Masonic role here.
You know, there's a memorable image from the movie where
he finds that magic ring. It's kind of like a
a futuristic ring version of the Eye Watch where he
can you know, have access to basically the Internet is
what he's accessing here in the movie. But you know
it displays this image of an eye on his head,
you know, this all seeing eye on the on his
third eye. So yeah, again this is this movie is
replete with all this kind of stuff. But what we
have is a future dystopia with these roving bands of
tribes we see at the beginning, and it's very bizarre.
As you said, they they talk about their guns as
if they're phallic. I'm not sure why that part is
in there. I think I may have left that the
analysis because I didn't really understand what they were getting at.
But basically, they're they're breeding is controlled, and there's this
immortal class of persons who flies around in these giant
heads and they present themselves as gods and so zed.
The The Sean Connery character sort of figures out that
this is a scam and he kills one of the
quote immortals and then rides back to the compound or
the Elysian fields, where these immortals live in this very apathetic,
very blase existence where they don't care about anything and
everything is because they don't have any pain or sorrow
or you know that they have every pleasure at their fingertips.
And what happens is that Sean Connery, as this savage
you know, kind of invades their eden, their xt state,
and causes an uproar. He basically fosters a revolution somewhat inadvertently,
and you know, you would think with a typical kind
of dystopian film that it would be, Oh, you know,
they cause the revolution and they overthrow the dystopian rulers
and then you know, the good guys are in power.
But that's not where this film goes. It goes into
a very very bizarre direction. And then what you learn
I'm going to go ahead and spoil it if you haven't
seen the movie, is that the name of the film
is based on the fact that he rediscovers books because
the elite in this movie have hoarded all the knowledge.
They have basically a giant pyramid that's a big ai
system that allows them not just to control their environment
and the kind of super smart city, they can also
reincarnate or resurrect. So they've they've mastered every possible secret
of nature and you know, it's a lot and have immortality,
but they've learned that immortality in this film's presentation, at least,
you know, it leaves you empty. Once you've had all
the pleasures, there's there's nothing else left for you. So
Zed starts the revolution, and what happens is that it
is in a way successful, and some of the gods
kind of join him in the revolution. They end up
all killing each other. So this again The Nietzschean theme
is very prominent here because I think, you know, Nietzsche
would say things like, the elite, you have these cycles
in history. It's a very cyclical presentation in this film
Eternal Return and so forth. And the reason that the
power structures collapse is because they insulate themselves from the
rest of the world. You know that we've all heard
this about elites throughout history with you know, Chinese emperors
couldn't walk on the ground. They would have people carry
them around on poles and stilts, and they would bind
the women's feet because women and weren't supposed to walk
around the elite, you know, women weren't supposed to walk
all this weird stuff that they come up with. And
what happens is when you get really insular like that
and there's all this incest and inbreeding, you know, like
amongst the British elite, you end up detached. And Nietzsche
argues that that detachment from the real world actually ends
up being the destruction of the elite, which is an
interesting thesis, and I think that's kind of what's going
on here in Borman's film, because the revolution is successful,
but instead of adopting you know, the technology of immortality.
They kind of destroy it, they get rid of it,
and you're left at the end of film with this
kind of oral buro scenario of the you know, the
snake eating its own tail, because Z and his wife
are kind of halfway pictured as Adam and Eve, and
so you're kind of left with the idea, oh, maybe
this is you know, just the whole cycle of all
of the history of mankind being represented, and you know,
maybe and maybe what I'm not saying this is absolutely true,
but I'm saying that the film is kind of proposing
the thesis of you know, maybe we think about elites
gaining you know, transhumanist abilities and all this kind of stuff,
and then and then maybe one day it collapses and
then it all just starts over again and we're right
back to Adam and Eve. And so I thought that
was kind of interesting. That was a that was kind
of the message of the New Battlestar Galactica if you
saw that, if you saw the the end of the series,
was that, you know, you're thinking the whole time that
this is going on in the future, and then you realize, oh,
this is actually starts the end of the series. Is
Adam and Eve more or less, so, you know, alternate
theories of origins that kind of ties in the Greek mythology,
you know, the mists of the gods. That was my
take on Zardas. What about you, well, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, I think you pretty much sum up most of
my thoughts. But the general take away from me elites
will become detached from reality and this will be their destruction.
And that mirrored other dystopian sci fi that I had
watched and read, and then I started to see that,
you know, in the real world, you know, looking at
developments and technology they're actually happening, and then looking back
to some of this predictive sci fi. And I think
you mentioned the word transhumanism. I think that's very much
where we're headed. And I think for me that Zed
in Zardo's it's a little bit like sort John the
Savage type character and breeding New World. Yeah, it's kind
of you see in Zardo's the react they kind of
the fascination that they have with Zed this character and
put it it's the animal nature of man that they
have left behind.
Speaker 2: That that's a good point, right.
Speaker 1: The elite in the Tabernacle have and they're fascinated by
his vitality and by his violence. I mean, you know,
they're kind of shocked, you know, they they've become so
detached from, as you say, the real world are basic
nature that the idea of like killing someone, fucking someone
or or you know, or eating something or you know,
taking a shit or whatever. It's all just kind of
you know, but it's kind of strange for them. It's
come running almost full circle, and they're like, oh my god.
You know, for me, it was kind of about balance
because it's like you saw the world that the brutals
as they're called in Zardo's living. It's this post apocalyptic
kind of wasteland. Yeah, but so's social class that he's
part of is a classic middle of a hierarchy type thing,
like an enforcer kind of rule, not really like police,
but they kind of sit between the elite and the
masses at the bottom of the pyramid, and that we
see that very much in our society. So they're almost
slightly privileged. Zed's kind of exterminator class. You see the
way some of the brutals live and it's not a
lot of fun, But then you see the way the
elites live, and you kind of think, well, in some
ways Zed and his cohorts kind of have it good,
and for me things get worse. Things are already bad
for the brutals, things are get worse for the elite.
And it's actually Zed in this kind of like in
his moments of nosis kind of coming to understanding. He
gains in power throughout the film, and you can see
him kind of like taking control. So the end, as
you say, which is kind of like almost as Adam
and Eve type wrap it up and start again thing.
You can read that any way you want. You can
read it as like, oh, here we go again. But
for me it was kind of like, well, it's another
chance we don't you know, the future isn't written yet.
At the end of it, I kind of thought, yeah,
you know, well done from Zand.
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Yeah. And I forgot to mention
too that the Tzard Eyes, of course Wizard of Oz
is what you realize it's based on, because he finds
that book that was kind of hidden away or forgotten,
and you know, he's kind of figuring out language and
he realizes that the elite basically just mastered technology, you know,
gnosis or knowledge. That's why they're flying around in heads,
because where's the source of knowledge. It's the head. That's
actually a thing that comes up in a lot of
films too, by the way, with like very Baron von Munchausen.
There's that planet where you know, Robin Williams's head is
just floating around and he has no understanding of the body.
And that's that's kind of what you're getting at that
the bodily desires have kind of been discarded because the
elite perspective was that the body was the problem and
we've got to transcend that and if we can just
transcend that, will we'll be free, will be if you know,
we won't have those problems anymore. But they've forgotten and
as you said, they're mystified by his brutal nature. And
then that's why you get these guys who are kind
of like that that one guy, he's got the head dress.
They look like a sphinx, which is interesting because so
they have this kind of Egyptian aesthetic to them where
they literally look like, you know, the sphinx statue, and
it harkens back to you know, Egyptology, and that's why
they're tabernacle. The Ai thing is this big pyramid, And
the irony you said is that I think part of
it is showing that the class warfare doesn't really get
you what you want, because it's all predicated on the
idea of, oh, if I can rise up in the ranks,
if I can overthrow the people above me, if I
could just have access to what they've got, then I'll
be happy. And then what you find out is that
every time you, you know, if you've got a million dollars,
and then you attain a billion dollars, you basically just
inherit a whole other level of problems. So you're right
in many ways, Z's middle class I guess you could
say middle to lower class existence actually had a lot
of positives, and there are a lot of negatives that
would have come along with him trying to kind of
move into the status of the elite, and it just
doesn't work. And I'm not necessarily trying to say that
everything about class systems or class systems is good. I'm
just saying that that's kind of an interesting argument you
could make from the is that, you know, do we
really get anything better when the revolutions come? And I
think if you look at something like the French Revolution. No,
I don't think so, just real quick in adendum, and
it's on my mind because we covered it in the
show that I did. We did an episode on Christopher
Nolan's Batman trilogy, which has its pros and its cons,
but one of the interesting themes at the end of
the trilogy was that when Bain tries to initiate his revolution,
and you can look at Bain as kind of the
anarcho syndicalist character, the the nightmare that arises out of
the you know, far East. You know, we don't know,
we don't understand this guy, and he's got a thing
on his face that makes them dog very weird. And
he institutes his revolution and it ends up worse. And
then you have this imagery with you know, Killian Murphy
is sitting atop this giant stack of books and he's
basically deciding who's loses their head and who doesn't. And
you know, it's very Robespierre. It looks just like you know,
Rosepeer's Committee for Public Safety sitting there kind of just
lopping off heads. And so that the Baine Revolution, you know,
doesn't do anything positive. It basically ruins everything and and
Gotham ends up in a worse state than they were before,
which is a curious message for you know, a big blockbuster,
and I think you're kind of getting a similar idea.
I think you could argue here with with you know,
Z's revolution. In a way, I guess it it's positive
because what does that do well? It basically just goes
back to kind of a you know, an earthy, living
in nature kind of existence. You know, he's living in
a cave and they basically just accept death. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure of director John Burman's motives and
making the film, but certainly what you could take away
from it the message we've been talking about. It's interesting
that we get so much stuff fed to a snow
coming down from above, and let's remind people if they
even if they haven't listened to the first two parts
that we did a lot of what you're talking about
in the book is just what the title of the
book says. You're looking at, you know, symbolism and these
hidden meanings and what agendas might be being furthered by this.
You look at the connections between the CIA and Hollywood
and propaganda. So we're talking about messages coming to us
here witting, unwittingly, or deliberately. But my point is we
get so many messages these days about elites, about transhumanism,
about the development of technology, about the Bill Gates and
the Elon Musks of this world, and about how this
reminded me.
Speaker 2: I just want to make one quick point for sure,
to get sure is that they have a breakaway civilization.
I forget about that. Yeah, that the elites in the
film The Immortals have this It's like a hidden behind
a hologram you and this giant sort of invisible force
field type thing that wards out all the savages for
their Elysian fields. And then that's interesting because, as you mentioned,
Bill Geyser made me think of it, and Elon Musk,
you know, these are the guys who talk about literally
creating a breakaway civilization.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But all the while, a lot of the stuff
that's coming down to us is that this is going
to be a good thing and we're all going to
get to take part as well.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah right, yeah.
Speaker 1: But strangely, and a lot of the films that kind
of on one level look like pure propaganda. I mean,
a lot of people have probably seen the relatively recent
film Elysium. The message, the message really, no matter what
the intention of the director is or the writers, the
message is kind of like that, exactly the same wizardos
that elites will end up becoming detached from reality and
it'll just they'll destroy themselves. So it's like, no matter
what the benefits are of all this this technical utopian stuff,
it kind of ends up in a bad place. And
that was a common message in dystill being sci fi
in the seventies, but even today when when they try
and spin something that we're all, oh, yes, I can't
wait to dump my body, you know, and I can't
wait till like my brain is, you know, in a
jar of pickling vinegar or whatever. You know, I just
want to know. I want to live for a thousand years,
ten thousand years. Why not? You know that these stories
of films, the books, whatever it happens to be, they
end not kind of giving the same message, which it
ultimately is negative. But yet and all that, the the
barrage of this stuff continues a pace, doesn't it, really,
Because whether it's Ted Talks or whether it's endless propaganda
about saving the environment or whatever it happens to be,
you know through all these you know, like all the
latest technology, driverless cars, on and on and on. This
is incessant, but it never seems to the propaganda never
seems to at a deep level anyway completely satisfy people
or completely do away with their concerns. And I think that,
as you saw in Zardal's there's a visceral animal part
of our nature that we never completely lose touch with,
and I think we do so at our peril because
like you and I are not running around, you know,
having to fight with our bare hands every day to
defend ourselves. We're not having to kill with their bare
hands in order to eat. We're not having to secure
a mate by doing by killing and you know, clubbing
another guy over the head and taking his woman or whatever.
But there's still a point you can get where you
become detached from any of that stuff and you lose
a lot of what it is to be human. For me,
my gut instinct is that something that's really that must
not be allowed to happen. And I know that that
I had gotten into arguments and discussions with people are
just saying, oh, you know, why on earth would you
want to hold onto this if we could have the
following and maybe I'll be proven wrong, but something in me,
the transhumanist agenda taken as a whole, just generically what
it basically is about. To me, this must be resisted
with every favor of my being. That's my instinct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the message of the film is that
you can't really get away from human nature and that
you know that includes all those faculties and passions that
you listed there and more and propensities and drives, and
there's a kind of dialectical tension at work here that
you know, are we going to see the body is
bad in a kind of Plato neopolatonic sense, something that
we need to flee from, to download our minds into
some sort of central AI grid, which I don't think
is ever going to happen. I think that's a bunch
of nonsense and a that's the scam of transhumanism because
it's all predicated on naturalistic materialism, you know, the idea
that you don't actually have a soul or a spirit
or a pecul or a noose, and that it's just
basically all just the chemical reactions. And so you'll actually
see the transhumanists like you mentioned the Ted Talks, and
if you watch any of these big billionaires that are
into transhumanism, and some of them are actually transgenders, and
they try to I'm not joking, they try to create
these bots that they think are copies of their lovers.
I forget the name of this one. It's like there's
there's like a black woman bought that this transgender billionaire
has tried to create. And the argument is that, oh,
it actually is my black woman lover because it has
her voice and she has recorded a lot of her
life and memories, and so therefore it's her. And that's
again all based on this ridiculous naturalistic presubsition that see
that you're just the chemical reactions that you know occur
in your brain. There's nothing more. And so I guess
by extension, if that's the case, then you know, if
you're playing a YouTube video of me talking about Bill Cosby,
then that's the same as me, yes, which is really stupid,
but I mean that's literally what they try to push.
And I've seen Ted Talk people try to push that
same thing.
Speaker 1: But I've got into heated discussions with people of this.
I'm talking about technical utopians eagerly quite often without actually
any expert knowledge in the area. But you know, they've
read a lot of articles, watched a lot of Ted talks.
They're passionate about that some of these transhumanist ideas should
come to pass. They'd be a good thing. Initially, More importantly,
they think it can be done. It's just a matter
of time. Everything's just a matter of time. Look how
we've come, they say, you know, and I'll say them, okay,
you know, we're joining to the end of our discussion,
or actually I'm just bored now, so I'm going to
end it. But I'll say something like, okay, okay, okay,
let's just cut to the chase.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: Make a bet with me. Now, if we're going to
make a meaningful bet, we've got to have a sort
of a time frame, and we've got to have something
easily measurable. If it's like a horse race, you bet
on the horse. Either the horse wins the race or
it doesn't. If it's a photo finish, they sort it out.
That's fine. But they make a decision. So I'll say
something like, let's choose one of these developments you're talking about,
and Elon Musk saying that about twenty thirty, it will
be darn ray. Kurtzfeiler said, by twenty thirty, this will happen.
Elon Musk says, yeah, that's doable. Blah blah. Set a
date with me. Now we're gonna have to wait a
few year. Set a date with me, and you tell
me the amount, and you're going to say, this could
be done and this will happen. Tell me how much
money you want a stake, and I'll go for it,
because it's a question. The question you have to ask
yourself if you're betting on this is how much can
I afford to lose? Because that's how confident I am.
And do you know what, maybe people have just thought
I wasn't serious. People get quite defensive, they get quite angry,
and they will not even consider entering into a bet
with me. I've said, we can do a contract if
you want, we can get this witness, we can make
this legal, we make it enforceable law. And then well
that doesn't work, I say, okay, let's just take it
down and notes. Let's say something that you're convinced is
going to be happening in the next five years, and
let's have an amount of money that's substantial, but it's
not going to ruin us tenos well that works whatever,
you know, and they will not go for it, and
they get really angry if I try and say, give
me something, give me this, because it's measurable, it's actionable,
and if you're so confident, what's the problem exactly?
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I mean, I don't think we have to
be a luddite or a total transhumanist. It's a false dichotomy.
I think if you look at the last few Builderberg
meetings and you know the heads of Google and people
from Apple, and what they're talking about is coming. They
really want to push the body mod and modifications and
all that kind of stuff in terms of the tech realm.
And you know, Regina Dugan, who was formerly at DARPA
now at Google, was at Builderberg Google last year, I
think talking about this, and and you know that I
watch is kind of a step in that direction. Now.
I I'm not saying anything wrong with an eyewatch, obviously
it's that would be stupid. But what I'm saying is
that they're going to, I think, to try to find
ways to integrate this into the actual body of the
human and that is the predicted programming that we've been
seeing for so long, all the way back to Ship,
all the way back to probably Logan's run. I mean,
you know there's that scene where he kind of sitting
in that chair and they're doing some kind of like
mind control thing on him, and then you know, you
think about the Matrix and jacking in and I just
saw a Ghost in the Shell recently, and that has
the same theme. Actually that came out before the Matrix
in its cartoon form, uh, And that's all based on
all the exact same stuff. And I was kind of
blown away actually at the level of transhumanism that was
in Ghost in the Shell wasn't as successful, I don't
think as they hoped it would be. But when you
watch that movie, and again it's a mediocre movie, but
Scarlet Johansson really has this penchant, I guess for these
transhumanist movies like Lucy where she's you know, turned into
some sort of cyborg goddess of some kind. But it's
a scam because if you here's a funny thing. Even
Ray Kurtzwell, I heard him do a talk where he
was saying, actually a lot of people who think about
transhumanism or the like the idea of downloading your mind
to a computer. He's like, that might happen one day
millennia away. But he's like, if you think about it,
this was a I couldn't believe you said this. He said,
the human body is actually a very proficient machine. And
he said, you know what, actually, if we were to
try to really initiate transhumanist he's like, it's not going
to be where you put your brain into some hard drive.
It's more like, how can we enhance the existing system
or create a copy of the existing system, And that
kind of I was like, oh wow, So what's ironic here?
Is that the idea. I'm not joking about this, you
can this is a theory I have. I think that
a lot of the transhumanist elite that they actually kind
of want to mimic Christianity. Believe it or not, you say, well,
that's crazy. They hate Christianity, think it's a joke. Well,
I think on the surface they do. But when you
see Ray Kirtsvell say stuff like that, like, oh, actually,
the human body is a really good machine for what
it for what it does, and maybe we should actually
construct some kind of machine like that. And then and
then you watch Avengers Age of Ultron and the Paul
Bettany character. I don't remember what that. I'm not a
big superhero person now that I'm an adult. All the
all the guys in America are like still into this,
you know, comic book shit when they're like forty, it's
kind of ridiculous. But that Paul Bettany character is some
kind of I forget his name, like the Mystery I
think it's his name or something stupid like that. But
he is a like a resurrected kind of body. It's
like he's a he's the he is the transhumanist character
in the film, and he's like, you know, he's he's
got a body that has all these capabilities beyond you know,
whatever the former human body had or whatever. And that's
actually what Ray Kurzwell says. He's like, he's like, yeah,
we need to just fix the existing system and turn
it into something. He's like, because look, if you think
about it, you know, the human mind is constructed such
that it it has a focus on one thing at
one time, Like you know, if you're looking at I'm
looking at a Mad magazine cover right now in my
in my living room, like I'm not looking at the
backyard at the same time. And he's making the argument
that you can only really focus on one thing at
one time. He's like, so, there's not really a way
for the human person simply because it is a finite
subject to have like ten different vantage points. You know,
we're not going to have a bug eye that allows
us to see, you know, like a fly does, like
like Jeff Goldblum in the Fly or so where he
can see you know, twenty different or a thousand. However
many eyes bugs have, you know, a thousand different vantage
points or whatever. He's like, that's that's very extremely complex,
and it would be very difficult to you know, rewire
the human brain to try to incorporate something even as
simple as you know, the different vantage points that a
bug has something like that. So and when you think
about that and you think, oh, yeah, actually that makes
a lot of sense. And so you know, if there
was going to be some kind of transhumanism that they're
probably going to try to shoot for something along the
lines of a mimicked version of Christianity, believe it or not,
where you have a resurrection and if you know, if
you read the Gospel of John I'm not saying this
is true. I'm saying this is I could see how
they would look at it this way, like, oh, you know,
you see Jesus at the end of the Gospel of John,
and he's in his same body, but it's resurrected. It's
it's not bound by time and space, it's not mortal.
It has all these properties and characteristics that it's able
to do things that it wasn't doing before the resurrection. Now, obviously,
again I'm not saying they believe in Christianity. I just
wonder if they don't have like a kind of a
covert gnostic alteration of, Hey, why don't we take the
mythology of Christianity and maybe turn it into you know,
like a technological version and you know, something like out
of Avengers, Age of Ultron. I mean, that's kind of wacky.
I'm out there speculating.
Speaker 1: But you mentioned Loucan's Roun there, and we're going to
turn to talk about that. But just before I move
on there, you also mentioned lod Eites earlier on and
how that's a false dichotomy between being a Loodite and
being some kind of techno utopian transhumanist, and this is
a theme that comes up some dystopian sci fi. The
transhumanists run the risk of a backlash, a backlash that
actually superficially the likes of you and I might say, well,
you know saw that coming, you had that coming, you
deserve it. But these things quite often go too far,
don't they overshoot?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah. One quick point they reminded me too,
I meant to say earlier, was these are the people
who are total lying psychopaths. I mean, look at all
of the false flags, look at all of the scams
psyops that they do constantly. How on earth do you
think that they're going to tell you the truth when
it comes to techno utopianism.
Speaker 1: They're lying, Yeah, exactly. And my worry is not that
I worry much, but my concern, I guess, would be that,
you know, we could get into a situation at some
point down the line where and we've seen this locally,
but you know, on a more global scale, is it
because some kind of backlash that actually will everybody will
suffer from, no matter what their point of view. And
you and I might be sitting if we live that long,
observing this and going, oh man, this is not good.
You know it could have negative effects for us, simply
because it's a reaction that turns into an overreaction, I guess,
to the imposition of this technocratic so called utopia on
the rest of us. I'm thinking one of the most
striking stories in amongst the driverless cars kind of crashing
themselves was people. I think it was in San Francisco.
I don't know if there's one incident. I think it's
probably multiple incidents, but people on the streets wearing Google
glass being attacked because they were wearing Google glass. The
attackers I don't remember. I didn't read any stories in detail,
but there are some kind of motivation. These were not
random attacks, and I suspect.
Speaker 2: Yes, I do remember that. That's a good point.
Speaker 1: I think there's something probably quite visceral in that you
may even talk to some of the people who undertook
these attacks and they might not even really nestly be
able to articulate a very clear reason why they did
what they did. I mean, I am, you know, grasping
at strolls here.
Speaker 2: No, no, do you remember Surrogates the Bruce Willis movie.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, but I know what it's about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, there's that very thing what you're talking about,
because it's near it's a near future thing, and you
basically the plot is that you live in this little
where you spend your days in this kind of pod
or something where where you're just kind of laying in
the pod, and your surrogate, which is like this copy
version of you, you know, goes out and does its
daily activities, which is an interesting idea. But in the
movie there's that there's a giant backlash of protests and
activists and people who are opposing transhimitism. That's literally what's
going on in the movie. So you you maybe I
think you're onto something there that, yeah, we might have
a kind of societal breakdown where the you know, people
try to initiate a Butlerrian jahad like in the Doone novels.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and funny enough, I was suddenly reminded of a
line popped into my head. They made themselves God, and
now God has forsaken us, and I thought that's John
Berm and then I realized it's actually an it's actually
an excalibur. Interesting, yes, it's the peasants basically not not
using that as a derography term, you know, but it's
the people who live on cabbage soup and work the land.
It's a tough existence for them in the dark ages,
and they're lashing out against the real Knights, who they
seen have become aloof and detached from reality. And they're
an elite living up there in Camelot and their shiny
armor and their round table and their shiny swords, and
they're living in their own little you.
Speaker 2: Know, metal metal and metal and tech.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, basically they've been they've got they've got high
tech compared to the rest of them. And I just
remember one of the as that they undergo their downfall
before their ultimate recovery. That's one of the peasants lashes out.
It's I think it's at at Lancelot just talking about
the grill mats that they made themselves God, and like
God has forsaken this society. The whole world for them
has just got a whole lot darker as a result
of what they see as the mishandling as the uh
you know that the evil science of the g real Knights.
Speaker 2: Well, I just look at these social justice warrior slugs
that can't do anything, which is like the younger generations,
I mean when I compared to my my dad and granddad,
I can't do any of the ship they could do,
you know, like they could. My dad could build a
car from scratch, he did that one time, and he's
built houses and all kinds of you know, manly endeavors.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And I turned out more of a bookish dude, which
not necessarily bad per se, but you know, I don't
have a lot of those skills that that my dad
and granddad had. And it's even worse as you get
down to the millennials, who are basically just I think,
engineered to be obsessed with the tech stuff. And they're
the ones that are going to be you know, they're
being raised by iPads. You know, little kids now are
being raised by iPads, and so I think they're going
to be very primed for the acceptance of whatever the
next phases of bodily modification and stuff like that. And
you mentioned the driverless cars. I don't mean to change subject,
but it just reminded me. I couldn't believe I watched
that stupid Arnold Schwarzenegger movie Sixth Day, I think not
too long ago, and that came out in two thousand
and it begins with Google driverless cars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you've got a driverless car until recall,
don't you it's got a little guy in the front
who kind of talks to you.
Speaker 2: But that's not a it's a good point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your comment, they're about emasculation and younger generations in tech.
You've actually read my mind oddly enough, you know, at
a time when apparently we can't do that yet. That's
what I was going to turn too.
Speaker 2: Well, you're just assuming that I haven't been modified to
read minds.
Speaker 1: I am assuming that, you know, silly may Yeah.
Speaker 2: You're just assuming that I'm not a darker black opp project.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually, semi your bank details, I owe you ten
thousand boxs.
Speaker 2: Sorry about that.
Speaker 1: I'll get that transferred over immediately. But that's a theme
that I really want to turn to. But we did
say we get to Logan's Run and this is replete
with motifs and the sort of themes we've been talking about,
and then you actually deal with it in your book
section are technocratic dystopia unveiled? Now, Logan's Run's quite well
known film is from nineteen seventy six, and as we've
mentioned before, this was really the sort of halcyon days
of dystopian sci fi in many ways. We had roller Ball,
which we talked about in the previous installment, Soilent Green
t h X one one three eight, which is George
Lucas' first film, developed from a project he first did
when he was a film student, a fairly a lesser
known film starting all over Red called z PG or
Zero Population.
Speaker 2: Growth, Zero Population Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And Logan's Run set in the twenty third century where
pleasure rules in a synthetic society. That was the byline.
It's got a lot in common at the later phone
called The Island with Ian McGregor. It was very similar
in many ways. So now Logan's Run was a feast
for you to get your teeth into really in writing,
not least the population control, which I suppose is a
central theme. But it's a smart city as well, isn't it.
So just just just cherry pick a few of your
favorite aspects of Logan's Run then and just set there
was a.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's weird about a lot of the
dystopian stories is that it's almost like they all have
two or three elements that are likely to be true
that the other stories don't have. So what you don't
have in maybe well no, I guess you could argue
that you do have population control in Zardas. But you know,
at times you'll see things in some of these kinds
of stories that you don't see in others. But yeah,
this has a very strong euthanasia theme, right, So everybody
has this very easy existence in the big plastic ai
smart city and you are deleted, you know. You what's
and what's weird about it is that once again it's
a kind of religious manipulation like we saw in Zardas, right,
which was this faux religion that's kind of the noble
lie of Plato that's foisted upon the tech utopia. And
then when you reach a certain age of what was
a thirty or thirty three, you you you're insiderated. But
they've turned it into this happy floating ritual where you
kind of dance around and float away and you float
into the furnace or something. And which is funny because
that again, this is very platonic. It's very much the
the idea that you know, Plato said, oh well, the
the ideal republic, which all the utopias are all based
on the idea public of Plato. Well, they've got to
have the noble life, fake religion, because you know, you're
never going to have all of the society being philosopher kings.
And you know, the philosopher king understands that men have
to be governed. And you got to have the rigid hierarchy,
and you've got to have the you got to lie
to the masses because you know they're just too stupid,
and you got to keep them their population under control,
like like the Wildlife Authority you know, controls the deer
population here in Tennessee, for example, because there'll be too
many of them. Uh. And you know, so that you
have all those Malthusia and Eugenics themes, and then what
happens is you got the the Promethean character of Logan five,
who the Michael Yorke character who finally figures out that
not everything in his Edenic existence is what it appears
to be. And that's of course always one of the
great themes of the Dystopian stories, and I think why
they resonates so well with all of us living in
the age that we live in now, especially with the
awareness of the new world order and all that we
realized that, you know, we have not been told what
is true. We've been told all this Bologne, and we
live in the synthetic society. And you know, as the
great philosopher Jean Baldrizard predicted in his book Simulacround Simulation,
we are almost entering into a point where it's beyond synthetic.
It's like a synthetic version of the synthetic.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I was amazed, for example, when I watched the last
Jurassic Park reboot, and there was so many I did
analysis of that, and one of the things that stood
out that was very bizarre was that you have people
in a synthetic environment watching synthetic people or synthetic dinosaurs
in a control Like a large part of that movie
is in the control room of Jurassic Park, and the
people are watching synthetic images on their screens of synthetic
things in this synthetic park. And then it gets even
more meta because we're in the movie theater watching all
of this syntheticness. Now I may have mentioned that before,
but that just always blows my mind when when this
synthetic topic comes up and I think about how like
these gamers, right like these very popular YouTube channels of
gamers who sit there people are watching people play a
video game, and it just blows my mind. And then
you know, there are some channels where it's like people
watching people watching a video game going. I mean, it's
it's just like madness. But so we're getting into these
kind of infinite removals, you know, of meta of synthetic
dystopia here in our reality that I don't even think
these people could have could have come up with. But
and again, all of that's kind of hinted at here
in Logan's run. Another interesting element is governing the people
in the dystopia through their base desires, right hedonism rules
you have like these, you basically go home and you
tell the computer what you want. The computer produces the
like a Holow deck on Star Trek or something like that,
Like you get the synthetic babe or whatever. And like
you said, yeah, it's very much like The Island, I think.
I think Michael Bay and he kind of blended a
whole bunch of the dystopias together. I mean, I actually
think The Island is a decent movie. If you go
back and watch it, it's not as bad as you
would think, coming from Michael Bay. But but yeah, it
is kind of like just a cut and paste of
all the dystopias. So there's all this I guess we
should mention other you know, the symbolism too, of like
the lotus. So there's this I lotus crystal, which is
this Buddhist Hindu imagery and in those traditions, interesting that
it references the heart and the passion. So the lotus
is a reference to the flower of life, which if
we think about like sacred geometry and Pythagoreanism and Platonic mysticism,
the flower of life signifies the ecosphere, the biosphere as
a whole, and this gets into the platonic solids and
how in Pythagoreanism everything's kind of built upon itself up
into you know, second, third, fourth dimension reality. And the
reason I say that is that again we're back to Platonism,
and that's a I think direct conscious referencing of all
these Platonic ideas. And you say, well, Platonism isn't Buddhism. Actually,
there's a lot of similarities between ancient Hindu ideas and
Buddhist ideas and Platonism, and people have written many books
on that. I cite one of those books in my analysis.
And really what we're just talking about sacred geometry here,
and that is mastering the secrets of sacred geometry. This
is what Plato talks about the republic. That's how you
construct the utopia. Literally, now I'm not saying it's a
real utopia. I'm just saying that that's how it's viewed
in the mystic texts, is that you master these things.
You know, Plato says that the philosopher king has to
go off for like twenty years and study math. Like
you go for twenty years and you study geometry, math,
master all that, and then you've got to come back
and master the art or ruling men. And that's the
true philosopher king, right, So it's not just you know,
meditating on a mountain. For Plato, it's a little more pragmatic.
You've got to actually come back and use that nosis
and wisdom that you supposedly have obtained to rule the
city state. And that's everything that we're saying here in
Logan's run. And there's also Crolean elements too. I think
you've got this kind of new aon where death has
been accepted as this kind of necessary part of existence
and of the regime. The regime just has to to
kill people, supposedly because you know, we got to keep
balance in the population for the ecosphere and all this
kind of stuff inside the the bubble Doome city, which
by the way, is very Disney. You know. You look
at the kind of silly little models and artwork that
was used for the movie and it looks almost exactly
like Epcot, and you say, well, what's the connection there?
And we have mentioned this on the first talk. I
can't remember, but it's come up a few times. The
Pentagon was directly involved with big corporations like the Semens
Corporation in designing Epcot and it's it was called the
City of Tomorrow, so believe it or not, Epcot Center
and Disney. I'm not joking. This is one hundreercent truth.
That was predictive programming, planning, conditioning people to accept the
coming smart cities. They knew back then there would be
smart cities, there would be all this reorganization, you know,
under the kind of Agenda twenty one Model of Cities
and a New City's Initiative and all this kind of
stuff Target cities. I'm not joking about that, by the way, Yeah,
you mentioned that before.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all real. The Clinton initiative is very closely
connected to the Target Cities initiative. You can't make this
stuff up.
Speaker 1: I mean you look at the look at the Zeitgeist
movement specifically.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a great example.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you look at their city drawings and
a lot of their a lot of their plans, you know,
which are kind of like the sort of thing that
you see in artists impression when there's a new development
going up somewhere but it's not ready yet. So rather
than put the blueprints up, which is really boring and
nobody can understand them, an artist does an impression of
what the finished building or development will look like up
it goes. So these are in that sort of style
Zeitgeist's movements there kind of vision of future cities and
what's what's that that just looks like something of a
set from Lubin's Run or any of these other dystopian
sci fi or you know, I remember looking at rewatching
Clockwork Orange and just going, oh, it's the Zeitgeist streets
and plazas and stuff, except that, oh, here, we have here,
we have so called real life. Here, we have the
you know, the ugliness of the animal kicking its jackboot
into all of this. What word does this kind of
resolution come. It's when some of the characters reconnect with nature,
you know, outside of the dome city. That's very much
the theme in t X one one three year. Oh yeah,
they finally get finally get above ground and reconnect with nature.
Speaker 2: Oh this is that's that's great, that's this is the
algory the cave theme that is constant in dystopian stories.
So THHX total algory the cave where they emerge and
they see the sun. Right, they've never seen a sunset
or sunrise whatever it is, you know, with the James
coll Or Robert of All character comes out and he
sees the sun. And then there's another movie that's actually
a pretty good kids movie, believe it or not, with
Soorcia Ronan and Bill Murray called City of Ember. And
it's a very well done dystopian movie for for kids.
And in that film, they're all underground. It's a future dystopia.
And you know that, I don't think I'm spoiling it
for anybody by saying that. You know, the end of
the film is that the whole civilization was based on
Why and Sorsia Ronan and whoever the male lead guy was,
they exit the city. And what the irony in that
one was that the Bill Murray plays a great sort
of dissolute, corrupted president of the of the civilization or
whatever he is, the mayor, that's what he's the mayor,
uh and and he doesn't even remember the real story,
so he actually believes the bullshit. And that's the irony
of sometimes of the dystopias is that, you know, maybe
in the earliest days in these fictional presentations, we have
the idea that you know, the leaders thought, oh, it's
going to be for the best if we create the
giant y for the civilization, and then like five hundred
years later, they've forgotten that. So they actually believe that,
you know, oh, you can't step outside the dome city
because the error is toxic. You know, there's there's nuke
nuke dust and radiation and which is all made up.
And you know that that was a great theme in
City of Member. So if you haven't seen that, I
actually recommend it's pretty good films.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I was I cut across you there. I didn't
mean to do that, but that's okay.
Speaker 2: They have that. It has that platonic algoryth that came
cave theme, which again it's always present in these dystopian stories,
and consciously I mean that again, that just proves my
thesis that you know, it's all really goes back to
the pledge of public.
Speaker 1: Well, there's another book novel I read. I don't think
it's ever been turned into a movie. It's called The
Penultimate Truth and it might be a Philip K. Dick book.
I just can't remember, but it's exactly the same theme.
I think you'd enjoy it. It's about you can't go
above ground, it's poisoned, but it's not. But of course
that goes right back to the machine stops, doesn't it?
E M Forrester.
Speaker 2: Let's not forget snow Piercer.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, exactly, because that you.
Speaker 2: Know, they can't go outside the train. But that was
all a.
Speaker 1: Lie, exactly. But the whole all this kind of reconnecting
with nature but also the animal nature of man. I
use the term advisedly in this, you know, emancipated emancipated
age kind of sticking its over in you know, jutting
phallically kind of thrusting into the situation and kind of
ruining everything for the technocrats. I mean that's you see
that in a way in Blade Run or Don't You
a classic dystopian film, because not necessarily in a good way,
but you've got i mean, the central characters like a
heavy drinker to the point of being an alcoholic. Everything's
really grimy, the weather suck. Because there's so many things
about the future in that film that kind of kind
of where you thought, yeah, this was all really shiny
and brilliant, wasn't it when it was kind of new,
And now it's all just kind of gone the way
all tech does. It kind of rusts and seizes up,
it has it has scum on it.
Speaker 2: And there's actually not a huge, huge fan of Ann Rand,
but she actually has a pretty good short story with
that same theme too. Anthem Anthem is a good An
Ran short story with that same theme too.
Speaker 1: Well, just a thought that suddenly occurred to me, just
based on something you said a minute ago about Philosopher Kings.
And this is just a general reflection, but it kind
of as a continuation in a thought process of you know,
some of the some of the things that we've discussed,
you know, the the themes of the you know, technology
versus the primitive and the kind of spectrum between the two.
And isn't it interesting what a difference there is, particularly
brought out in movies, What a difference there is in
leadership that arises from so called from the bottom and
that which is generally imposed from the top. That's that's
the thing that comes up in a lot of movies.
And you see that. I mean, the first one that
came to mind was Gladiator. This using example that a
lot of people know. You've got Russell Crue's character Maximus,
a very strong, capable, smart leader as he turns out
to be, but he's come up from the ranks, and
so he's a bit like a sergeant in the army
in a way, do you know what I mean? Or
the guy that the men look up to because he's
done what they've done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he actually has you know, courage and virtue. And
then you know, Combadus, is this totally degenerate a feat
you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, And this is what I I The thought
first occurred to me when we were talking about Sean
Connery playing Zed and Zardal's you know, the role that
he has and how he's you know, yes, he's taken
on the role of an exterminator, but it doesn't you know,
you kind of is a man of character a few
words in the in that movie, but you kind of
have a you can kind of him, you see what
I mean, whereas you've just got nothing but contempt for
these pro wretches, contempt and petty. And in the army,
I suppose you get the guys. I don't know what
it's like in the US Army, but in the British Army,
you get the guys that go to Sandringham wherever it is,
you know, to officers school, and that you know, they've
never been in the rank and file, never been in
the infantry, and their combat experience may be very limited,
a bit like the guy in Aliens. Do you remember
the guy the military guy who's like parachuted in ye.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then you know the Hudson and Hicks and
all those guys are seasoned and they can't stand that
guy being over over them because he has had he
has no experience.
Speaker 1: And when does that guy the characters again can't remember
his name as such, but You've got that slimy cretn
from the company who obviously gets stamped out like the
cockroops that he is. Yeah, but when the military guy
who has been parachuted in to like take control sort
of speak, when does he begin When do we begin
to kind of of see something coming through that looks
like courage. It's when he's up against it, but it
shows that he kind of has that within him when
he sacrifices himself with you know that the the the girl,
the female soldier, you know, and he's kind of only
then only that's only in that human situation. Only when
he's forced to actually act does he find really some
kind of courage, whereas Burke is just you know, as
a slime ball from beginning to end.
Speaker 2: So, you know, Ripley, Ripley, you know, I really thought
better of you. I thought better for you. Ripley. You
know we could be wealthy, Ripley don't. I don't do
a great Paul Riser. But he has that very you know,
kind of New York Jewish accent.
Speaker 1: He's got a very punishable head. I will say, yeah,
but yeah, you're gonna slaze your way out of this one.
Burke's going to nail you.
Speaker 2: To the wall. Came over man, game over.
Speaker 1: He died recently, didn't he?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, the actor tact. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the thing that I want to turn to.
I mentioned this just earlier, is this idea of emasculation
and kind of like where we're headed in terms of
technology in the real world. And of course a lot
of what we're talking about spills over into this in
terms of propaganda and predictive programming, you know sometimes and
I'm reading quite a lot about this at the minute.
You know, the effect that this technology is having on
younger people, but also older generation as well. I mean
people of our age, people who are old enough to
be our parents, you know, maybe the people who are
our parents. And it's you know, the digital natives versus
digital immigrants. I think the word is. You know that
you and I are probably to some extent digital immigrants,
because we probably have always known personal computers, but we
haven't always known smartphones and the Internet and everything else.
Digital natives being those kids or young people that have
been born into this. And we're seeing some negative effects here,
and yet we're not here to discuss the positives. Okay,
we're not here to dig some of the positives. You
and I are talking with technology, we're talking over the Internet.
It's amazing technology. I wouldn't want to be without it,
even though I think we might be someday, maybe in
a couple hundred years time. But you see so much
apathy and so much vitality being drained away from a
certain type of person who get immeshed in technology and
I'm obsessed with it, and they live through it to
the point where sometimes their never mind, their minds atrophying,
sometimes their bodies waste away. I don't know if you've
read anything about that. In particular, there's a class of
young person in Japan, there's a name for them that
I can't quite remember, who basically live with their parents
and spend all their time in one room. And I've
read a story recently about a number of kids who
have died as a result of going on three, four
or five day gaming marathons during work. They did not
eat and did not sleep. And this passion, this sense
of purpose, dry fire, desire, these things that seem to
historically have driven us on as a species, good and all,
but anything that we've achieved it you can look back
and say, Wow, it's been that. I'm also reading a
lot of articles in general about well, the first ones
I read, we're along the lines of what's happening to men?
You know, where are they? You know this young women
just sort of saying you've got these like gaming, slack
job to kine of phrase, pencil nets, slugs, this is
the next generation of these, our future husbands and fathers.
But I also start to read these sorts of things
now about young women, you know, and why would the
effects really be any differently, just affect you know, the
different genders somewhat differently because the genders are different, but
it's the same basic phenomenon.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, here in the US, like if you scroll
through like the dating websites, if somebody is single, you know,
you're looking through these profiles and what you tend to see.
You can learn a lot from that. By the way
of the culture, You'll see all of these girls now
that are obsessed with weightlifting. I'm not joking. This is
a huge trend. And not just being fit but or toned,
which you know that makes that's fine with me, but
actually wanting to get buff, literally like really stout buff.
You know, you've got girls going into UFC fighting. You know,
you've got women. The argument is now they need to
be in special forces and on the front lines. And
simultaneously for the men, the programming is, like you said,
enter into the what Max Kaiser called a long time ago,
the virtual gulag, you know, the synthetic video game realm.
So it's this total reversal of the norms, and it's
absolutely by design, and it's a I don't think we
have to look a whole lot further than just the depopulation.
I mean, the whole goal of all that is just
I mean there's probably other experiments too, you know, more
specific localized experiments of you know, what what can we
do with you know, what happens to somebody who plays
video games, you know, for five days straight? What's the
effects of I'm sure that government's done experiments of that
of that nature. But overall the plan is really just
to mess people up so they don't reproduce. I think
that's I think it's pretty that pretty simple in that regard.
And you know, we've mentioned many times Aldus Tuxley and
WIT's in Brand New World, but being Bertrand Russell says
this very clearly too in the scientific outlook and impacted
science on society. That the goal would be to really
just mess people up. I mean, it's just pretty much
that simple.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I did an interview recently with a psychologist who
deals with a lot of young people who are having
problem relationships with technology. You know, they're usually referred by
their parents because it's destroying their lives, and in some
cases it turns out that the parents are actually falling
down into that trap as well, and it makes the
whole situation worse. But she related an interesting littl anic
dope to me father of a child who had been
referred to her. And the father was talking to her
just when the kid wasn't around, and it was just
in person or on the phone or something, and he
was saying, yeah, you know, I remember they kind of
had a bit of a little bit of a party
over at the house. Not not kids old enough to
be smoking and drinking and stuff, you know, they were
just doing what slightly younger kids, but they were they
were teenage kids being the point you know that they
were they passed puberty. And he said, also, I just
went down to the basement, you know, because we have
it turned into a kind of a den, and you
know there was the guys and the girls, you know,
my son and all his friends and some some girlfriends
I you know, female friends, not Nestley girlfriends in dating
or anything like that. And he said there were there
were going to throw cushions and stuff on the floor,
and they were all kind of like lying there and
kind of just chatting and doing stuff. And they were
something that were kind of draped over each other. And
he was kind of, you know, just looking on Okay,
you know, there there's my son with the girl dripped over,
and there's one of the other lads and this kind
of girl lying with him, so you know, doing anything,
not doing any harm, but there they are. You know,
it's just blah blah blah. And he thought and he
said to this psychologist, he said, man, I couldn't have
done that without getting aroused when I would that age.
But he said, they were all just lying there like
exactly like the immortals and Zartles. You know, that's my
free is not his, but you know that's what it was.
Speaker 2: That's funny. Yeah. The well, I think there's totally a
drop in testosterone and the spurm counts have dropped and
all kinds of crazy stuff like that that's you know,
appears to be confirmed and I don't doubt it in
even mainstream news. So yeah, I think it's all by design.
You look at Ecoscience by John P. Holder and the
quote sciences are that Obama appointed. He wrote back in
the late seventies, that big fat book with Paul Erlick
and other Malthusian global warming guy that you know that
you could do all this through you know, chemicals in
the environment, chemicals in the water, you know, inoculations, vaccines,
all that, and you know, again, this is just it's
just the restating of what Bert and Russell said so
many years ago, one hundred years ago. And I mean,
I'm not trying to be base. It's just it's really
is that simple. You know, we can do all the
analysis and trying to plumb the depths of all this stuff.
But that's really the big plan in my view.
Speaker 1: A not thing that you mentioned quite early on, but Superhero,
which when you know, your comment was just that I'm
not really a big superhero movie yet, you know, I
don't necessarily know a lot about it, blah blah blah,
and then you're you know, but mentioning about guys in
their twenties, thirties, forties, whatever, just being like really into
the superhero thing.
Speaker 2: But no, no, no, this is this is a huge thing. Man.
It's it's hard. I mean, have you been to I'm
not quizzing you, I'm just wondering, have you been to
the US? Have you seen like there are the I mean,
I'm sure this is true of the Western world and
probably other areas as well, like Japan or something especially,
but there are these giant conventions and they just get
bigger and bigger and bigger every year, and they pop
up in every city and it's like not just I mean,
when I was a kid, there used to be comic
book conventions at maybe a few cities, and the San
Diego Comic con is very famous. I went to that
when I was a kid. No, it's neat, you know,
Spider Man, Batman. But now it has become this gigantic
industry and the big I'm not joking. Look this up.
The A listers can even make more money by convention
appearances than they do in their films. Chris Evans, the
guy who's Captain America, he can make more at one
convention than he does, you know, in the whole I'm
not joking, look that up. It's crazy. And so it's
it's just this whole other realm of the cosplay theme.
That's that's kind of taking on a new life of
its own. I've been speculating with some of my friends
that I think what they might even do in the future,
I'm not joking, but but so we think about, oh,
it's going to Logan's run. There's gonna be you know,
like a big plastic city, smart city. No, no, no,
here's what I think they're gonna do. I think they
will actually create, like, imagine a whole state or a
whole region that is Avatar World. Imagine a whole land
that is Harry Potter Land, and you can literally go
immerse yourself in that world. Now, it'll be totally a
sy op, totally mind control. By the way, this is
don't steal this. This is my idea for a sci
fi dystopia. Of course, you know you can if you
write a dystopian story that way, you can't use Avatar
or anything like that. You get sued. But I think
that I think that's what they're gonna do. And Disney
was the test bed for this. So I don't think
it'll totally all be virtual. I think you'll have I mean,
I think we're a long way away from people totally
living inside the matrix. But you know, we're going to
continue to see these big DARP Pentagon style projects where
they create, you know, entire areas. I mean, I'm amazed.
For example, at disney in down in Florida, which I've
been a few times in my life. Last time i
went was about five years ago. And so when I
was a kid, you would go to Disneyland and there
would be the Magic Kingdom, which was kind of the
central theme park, and then they added there was Epcot
Magic Kingdom that was kind of it maybe a few
beaches and resorts or something. Now when you go there
are whole worlds, Like you go to Harry Potter World,
you go to you know, they're opening Avatar World now,
so entire parks are expanding based on Avatar, Harry Potter.
It just kind of blew me out. I was like,
I cannot believe this is insane. So it's almost like Vegas,
you know what Vegas is for adults. It's gonna I
think it's going to merge into something like Disney World,
and the dystopia that we're gonna see is going to
be something just mind boggling like that.
Speaker 1: I've got nothing against the superhero concept. I used to
read not very much, but I used to read Marvel
annuals when I was a kid. But I kind of
preferred some of the lesser known superheroes. Like there was
one guy there was made of Stone, and there was
another guy that was like Iceman or wherever he used
to silver Surfer, I don't remember what they helped. Some
of the lesser known, you know, of the of the
pantheon were interesting to me. But when you get guys
that are like your age or my age, and they're
kind of like on a weekend, you know, kind of
kissing their kids and their wife and then say, you know,
for they I don't know if there is such a
man as astro Man, but they're kind of putting on
a fucking cape and going off the weekend. I am
astro Man, and this kind of.
Speaker 2: Wonder Now, this is becoming people's identities, and that's because
they've lost their traditional heritage and identities. So they're derascinated
and they're just kind of floating and so in consumerist culture.
Just like you can buy a new gender quote unquote,
people are buying and purchasing new identities based on you know,
these these fictional worlds, these imaginal worlds. Uh. And absolutely
that's been that's been designed and engineered. And all you
have to do to to note that that's true is
study the history of Disney World and Disneyland. Well, have
you been to have you been to Epcot? By chance?
Speaker 1: No? No? I when you went to the States once
and it was New York only I didn't get outside
New York.
Speaker 2: So it's it's something to see just because it will
really blow your mind. And then you know, and I
was hipped to all of the you know, conspiracy stuff
the last time that I went to to Disney and Florida,
and I did it kind of as a project to
observe it, and it was mind blowing. I mean, you
you the for example, when you go through Epcot, which
is not that great of a ride, it's kind of goofy,
but you you just you know, I'm talking about the
Big golf Ball, right, that's Epcot Center. So you ride
this roller coaster that just kind of circles around inside
the Big Ball I'm not making this up. You can
I think people have, you know, posted their videos of
it on YouTube. You can go watch people writing EPCOT.
So you go through the story is a mythology, and
it's the history of mankind inside EPCOT. And so you're like, oh,
here you are as the Darwinian Apes, and then you
grew up into these ancient civilizations and so you're writing
through the animatronic Egyptian Land and you're going through I'm
not joking, you're going through ancient China Land. And so
then at the end of it, I'm at a loss
for words just because it stupid. So the last part
of it is like if you've moved up into the
present day of mankind and it's like, where are we
going into the future? Right, because EPCOT is all about futurism.
And the very last second to last thing that you
see is a nerd in his basement creating a computer.
And it's like this little Bill Gates. It's like a
little animatronic Bill Gates guy at in his garage working
on a computer. Uh, and it's you know, and then
and then EPCOT, the little module that you're writing in.
Then you go into the matrix that's how it ends. Wow. Yeah,
now you say, well, what's the point of that? So
what who cares? That's a stupid ride. No, No, EPCOT
is an indoctrination center. The whole thing is the entire project,
the whole It's all created by the Pentagon. That's why
Walt Disney was doing all of that propaganda. He was
making all his propaganda movies. He was involved in the
Laurel Canyon stuff. Uh. You know, go back to Daffy Duck.
Uh telling you to join the military and pay your taxes.
That's all. That's all propaganda. And so it's been linked
to the Pentagon the entire time.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: By the way, Disney is its own city state. Do
you know that it's like the Vatican?
Speaker 1: The Vatican. Wow, it's like like DC. I suppose as
well to some extent, you know, like it's Did you.
Speaker 2: Know that it has its own laws and constitutions. No?
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. But why am I?
Speaker 2: People? People do not believe that. I swear to you
that's true. Go look it up.
Speaker 1: Well, Well, you know utopian sorry, dystopian sci fi that
we've been discussing. One of the common themes is that
the idea of distractions, isn't it. It's all amusements, isn't it,
Things to just kind of do instead of instead of
real life. It's kind of things to keep you busy.
And it's like, oh, that's wonderful. Listen. Wonderful that you know, and.
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, this so Roger Waters song Amusing Ourselves to
Death based on based on the Norman Mailer book or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, again, very very ahead of its time, that
book actually so. And this is why my comment about
dystopia is, this is why I have never had any
time for theme parks. I've never had any interest in it. Now,
somebody wants to get up and going to Merry Go
Round or maybe going a roller coaster, there's kind of
a you know, there's a best throw there. Maybe not
only a Merry Go Round, but on the roller coaster
it can be quite a physical experience. So I get that.
I can see now. To me, it just looks like
an accident waiting to happen. So you're not going to
get me up in one of those. But in general,
what you described about Epcot whatever, I'm like, why are
we doing this? And I've been to some interactive museums
and stuff. That I found interesting. It depends where it's
pitched in what the level is, isn't it you know,
But in general, what we would call a theme park
to me is like why am I here? Okay, we'll
get a hot dog and then we'll go okay, because
I just don't want to be here. It's always felt
to be like one massive distraction, especially when they try
to recreate things. You know, the whole idea of going
to the middle of a landlocked contrary and oh they've
created a They've created a beach, so god forbid you
go to the beach. You don't have to go to
the beach anymore. You can go to beach World. Yes, exactly,
completely enclosed, you know, sort of climatically controlled, three hundred
and sixty five day a year experience.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Beaches are so yesterday. Welcome to you know, ultra beach
or whatever it happens to be.
Speaker 2: That was kind of inn the last Terry Gilliam movies,
Z Zero. The I have mixed views on it has
some interesting insights, and you know, he's always very good
with cinematography, but I don't know, it's kind of to me,
it ended kind of nihilistic, but I'll tell you the
movie to watch for this point is the independent film
that came out four or five years ago called tomorrow Land,
Escape from tomorrow Land, or Escape from Tomorrow I forget
the name of it exactly, but are you familiar with that.
Speaker 1: I am not to know what you're Oh, this is.
Speaker 2: A brilliant film. You got to watch this, you will
love this. So it's all shot in black and white.
And the selling point marketing point, which there's no way
this could be true. But the marketing point was that
supposedly the filmmakers snuck into Disney and filmed the entire
thing in the theme part without Disney knowing. Now, there's
no way that that's true because the Disney has, like
it's the whole theme park is a smart city under surveillance,
so there's like you have to scan biometrics to get in. Like,
there's no way they did that. But that was a
selling marketing point, which is I guess kind of clever.
But this film and I did do an analysis of
a long time ago, but this was overlooked. People didn't
I guess didn't see it. Maybe didn't have as big
a marketing as you would think, but very very deep,
very esoteric, very dark themes in this it's a dystopian
kind of story actually, but it shows all of the
stuff that I'm talking about in the movie. Now. It's
curious because what I'm suggesting is that it would seem
Disney was behind the film if they allowed I mean,
you know all that goes into shooting a film. There's
no way they did this without Disney knowing inside the
freaking theme park. But so if Disney was involved covertly,
then you are about to have your mind blown about
revelation of the method when you watch this movie.
Speaker 1: No, that's that's just I think moved to the top
of my watch list. To follow up on something that
you mentioned in one of the previous installments of this series.
You mentioned that, you know, there were laughable idea of
whole states being given over to particular themes. You said, like,
you know, laughed at the idea of Harry potter Land,
And I immediately thought, well, you know, west World, what
happens exactly. West World's a new thing on TV. But
I'm thinking back which I haven't seen yet, but you
can tell us about that in the second But going
back to the original movie of West World, based on
a Michael Crichton's story. What you've got there is a
grown men going to just regressing into like, you know,
pre pubacent boyhood, going to this wild West theme park
with the latest tech where they can pretend to be cowboys,
and not only pretend to be cowboys, badass cowboys that
get the girl, drink the bourbon, and get the gundawn
the bad guy. These weak saplings couldn't fight the way
out of a wet paper bag, but they can. They
can all be Clint Eastwood for the weekend. You know,
And what is that if not that immersive virtual you know,
not virtual reality, but that immersive experience of giving yourself.
It's it's beyond the fan convention, isn't it is? It
just turns into No.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And Michael Crichton has it to where,
you know, in the story, it's it's rich people who
can pay, you know, these exorbitant amounts. And I'm just
saying it would be funny if you extended that to
be like, oh no, no, you're actually going to like
Tennessee will become Harry potter Land. I'm joking, but uh,
but yeah, no, I did do an analysis of Westworld,
and I watched it and k Jonathan Nolan was the
writer and then JJ Abrams directed it, and Jonathan Nolan
being Christopher Nolan's brother, and so you're gonna get a
lot of the Nolan themes of the Maze, which always
comes up in Christopher Nolan stuff. Uh, and so there
were interesting elements to it. But I I was it
was underwhelming for me. I expected more. I thought it
would would give us more than kind of. I mean,
they did diverge a little bit and introduce, you know,
new ideas building on the Crichton story, but I just
I felt like it's still it just lacked something, something
was missing. It was it was a little too predictable.
Everybody kind of everybody that I know that watched it
kind of figured it out, like right away what was
going on, what the what the plot was. I don't
mean that it's a synthetic city. Everybody knows that, but
I mean the inter story plot of why the characters
are doing what they're doing. But it does have the
very point that you're talking about. It's the prediction of
the elites in this in this story, immersing themselves in
the synthetic world because they're the only ones that have
the money, you know, to be involved in this, and
then the synthetic world kind of breaks out. It's encasement,
and you know, that's what we're kind of left with
is you know, where are we going to go next
next season? You know, are the the bots actually going
to like take over the world? You know, this kind
of stuff.
Speaker 1: Further to what we were talking about, this theme of
emasculation in general, and say, this is not just affecting men,
it's affecting all human beings to some extent, particularly those
who are like losing themselves and losing their bodies and
their minds. Is there any link I wonder between this
demonization on the one hand, the other holding up with
this superhero character, but on the other hand, a demonization
of manhood or womanhood in the real world. You know,
it's almost like, yeah, you get screen superhero, but you
can't be a superhero. You can't as a father, as
a husband, or as a wife or mother or grandmother
or son or you know, you can't attee in that
in your real life. You know, you've got to be
pathetic and weak and the rest of it. And you
you know, be told what to do and to go along,
to get along, and is there any connection between that?
And then you look at people like Bill Gates and
now look again, not every I'm not saying everybody's got
to be a particular type of individual in body or
in mind, but for the purposes of our discussion, I'm
just looking at parallels. And you look at someone like
that who's physically deeply unimpressive, and then you look you
think of Wizard of Oz and the story there and
what's revealed to us in the end, you know, behind
the curtain. And then you think of someone like David Rockefeller,
for example, who he recently bought it, didn't he And
that's sort of like, you know, what a decrepit old demon?
I mean, you know, what could could a man aspire
to be anything less? If you see what I mean?
And so I'm just wondering about interesting parallels there, about
the messages that were handled about what it is to
be a man, what it is to be a woman,
you know, regardless of your sexuality and the future.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, well, there were very strong feminist themes
in West world this this go around, And that's not
my interpretation. That's pretty pretty obvious and you know, other
critics that we're writing on it, we're championing the feminist themes.
So basically, there's not really any good male characters in
the film. Maybe the black guy who's the Arnold character.
I forget the actor's name, but I guess you could
already he's kind of a good guy, but then you
realize that he's not a guy. So a little bit
of a spoiler there, But the message there, of course
is another one of the themes that we've seen throughout
many of these transhumanist films is that the bots are
humanized and the humans are roboticized. So humans are robotic,
they're totally driven by evil. Oh but don't worry, because
there's a bright future of the bots, and they are
compassionate and strong and virtuous and all of these all
these selling point it's basically of transhumanism that you see
in movies like AI. You know, where the Haley Joel
osmic character is has the empathy and the humane characteristics,
and then the humans in that movie are for the
most part all shit has totally and that's by design too.
I think that's that's all part of the inversion, really
is what this is all about that we've been talking
about with you know, the virchant Russell's quotes and whatnot.
So yes, I think you're onto something there with the
idea of I think you're right. So what I said earlier,
you could you could argue that women are being masculinized,
men are being feminized in the real world. But as
long as a big portion of your time is and
attention and focus and energy is directed to the synthetic world,
then the elites are happy. I think that's the main point.
Speaker 1: We could discuss this all day really, But and as
we begin to bring things for close this time around
to what extent this is a theme that came out
in your book also, do you think that kind of
a coming to the surface of a lot of these
themes and people coming to an understanding of some of
what they're being presented with and how that's working. There
seem to be two divergent trends. One is people kind
of waking up to some of these ideas that we're
talking about, and other people getting further and further lost
in this kind of like matrix. So how do you
read that situation? What do you feel negative about, what
do you feel positive about?
Speaker 2: You know. Well, the positive side is I said for
a long time, I think precisely, yes, the establishment the
system might master technology, and we can think about it
like the Death Star, you know, but it's kind of
like the rebellion in Star Wars consistently says to the Empire.
You know. I think that Darth Vader even says, you know,
don't put too much trust in this, this technological terror
that you've created, because human humanity in the world, the
universe is more than matter and techne their their spirit,
which I think has precedence over those things. And so yes,
even though they might master mind control and these different tactics,
the good the good takeaway from Logan's run and from
Zardas is that the elite systems usually collapse in on themselves.
And you can see that in all the attempts throughout
history at trying to create these unrealistic utopias, is that
they eventually collapse. And so yeah, you might have to
go through a period of of of the dystopia, you know,
the dark period, but they they don't work because of
the fact that they're self destructive. And so anytime you
get these systems that turn on humanity itself, and the
problem for the elite is that they too are humans.
It's a self destructive cancer, and cancer eats away at
all of them. You know, they might put all these
they might attack all of us with this stuff, but
you can't totally immunize yourself from it. And that's what
we saw that the elites trying to do in both
Zardas and Logan's Run to an extent, but it doesn't work.
So I think that because it's built on a faulty
anthropology and a faulty worldview, ultimately it's not going to work.
Speaker 1: No, I think a lot of the techno utopianism is
really which you can put the Zeitgeist movement into that category.
I think it's not unlike in many ways the twenty
twelve idea, you know, the idea of a shifting consciousness
and that we're going to ascend or be raptured or
whatever it happens to be. The idea it's this sort
of magical process that's going to allow us to side
step difficult problems, you know, a bit like going to
adulthood from childhood, having to go through teenage years when
you have to kind of learn.
Speaker 2: Limitations are a good thing. And there's no way to
ever get rid of all limitations. And really that whole
project is built on that presubposition. That's actually what aldis
Texley says that he says the enemies of the future
will be people who in any way and in any
sense believe in limitations and exclusions. So that's why you're
seeing the attack on language, the idea of oh we
have sixty genders now, oh, words don't mean what they mean.
All of that. There's just no way that can work.
I mean, it might cause some havoc, it might cause
destabilization and wreck a lot of things for a long time,
but it's just so fundamentally out of a chord with
the actual world in which we live that you know,
you can only sustain synthetic systems for so long before
they have the internal problem of breakdown. And I don't
think that they'll ever overcome that. It doesn't matter how
many bots that you create to program other bots, you're
never going to escape the natural world.
Speaker 1: Well, whatever progress they make with virtual reality. To be honest,
I think that your movies are a great metaphor for this,
that you know, the screen is bleeding into so called
real life so much now that you can see a
lot of individuals that we've referred to who have actually
kind of lost track of what is what. You know,
people who are going maybe going to show up for
work on a target, let's just say, or Walmart. They're
going to turn up on Monday morning dressed is astro man,
and they're they're going to walk in and somebody's going
to go, oh, hi, Jim, you know, what's with the
what's with the tights and the cape and the and
the goggles? You know, I am astro man. Yeah, well Jim,
that's fine, do that in your lunch, char but could
you get to your station please? No astro man. You
know when it gets hauled away in the you know,
to the rubber room. So but I just think that
that's an increasing trend that we're going to say it's
going to be an interesting ride because it works both ways.
Is and it you know, you get stuff, real world stuff,
it gets turned into movie, you know, it becomes a
suit called reality TV. I think is a brilliant manifestation
of this. It's kind of like I'm going to tune
into the TV for some real reality because the reality,
the real reality I've got I don't really want so
let's really really get the real thing on the TV exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right, and uh, I mean they're
gonna keep pushing the limits. But again, you know, it's
you just can't. You can't force the entire biosphere into
something that is anti biosphere. And when we look at
similar projects in the past that have attempted to do
this kind of stuff, like Bolshevism or Stalinism are great
examples of trying to impose an ideal that is totally
mismatched with the real world. It just collapses. And the
the the Jacques Frescoes and the Saint Simon's uh, and
the Zeitgeis the types that you're talking about who are
really kind of at the core of the this this ideology. Uh,
it's just it's not going to work. I mean, and
again it's because they arrogantly think they understand everything about
humanity because they've mastered some technological thing. This is not true.
I mean, humans are humans, and human persons transcend nature.
I believe that's part of the theology that I adhere to,
and so that informs my worldview, and that's the vantage
point from which I think I can accurately critique and
argue against the idea that you can engineer Man into
being something other than Man.
Speaker 1: Well, to borrow Freeze from Mad Max or either going
to crash or we're going to crash through So stick
around to find out which it's going to be. Today, Jay,
we've been talking about your book Esoteric Hollywood Sex Cults
and Symbols in Film that's published not so long ago,
that's available everywhere.
Speaker 2: If you would please get it, Please get it from
me at my website.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, tell folks about that, and also just tell
them you've just shot a TV show that's in the
can for a broadcast and not too just so, yeah,
share your web details and tell folks about the TV show.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the book can be obtained from me whether
you're in the US or well actually anywhere in the world.
I have a outside of the US PayPal that you
can do too. And yeah, it's a little bit pricey,
but it helps the author. You know, if you can
get it directly from me, not through Amazon. Amazon undercuts
author is pretty bad and they're process and that's why
they offer it so cheap. But so you can get
the book there and I do sign the copies, and
then you can also get access to my archives where
I have a lot of interviews and talks and podcasts
and lectures. The second half that you pay for. The
first half's always free. And then you know probably a
thousand or so posts and articles at the website, big
vast archive that you can dive into that's all free.
And yeah, we just shot seventeen episodes, very high production quality.
I'm very impressed with what the production company had there
and how it all turned out. It all went well,
went pretty smooth, And it'll be basically a Cisco and
Ebert style show of me and Jay Weiedner of Kubrick's
Odyssey in Room two thirty seven Fame, going back and
forth kind of debating and critiquing and analyzing film from
the kind of vanished point that you that you and
I've been doing it right. So not the bland ciscl Ebert,
you know this is good, this is bad. They were
good actors, they were bad actors of view from the
symbology side of things. And that's why I think it's
going to be really high quality, not like anything else
that's out there in TV and media, and I think
it'll be a couple of months before it's done in
the post production, and then it'll be available on streaming
on the Gaya network Guya TV, which is available on
Amazon Prime, Roku, Apple TV, and in the US at
least it will also be available on a lot of
cable and satellite so through like Exfinity Cable in the
US and things like that. So yeah, I'm looking forward
to that. I think it's going to do really well,
and if it does good ratings wise, they will order
up another twenty two episodes.
Speaker 1: Wonderful. Well, look forward to that. In the meantime, Jay,
thank you so much for joining us on Legalized freedom
dot com.
Speaker 2: Always a pleasure. Thank you, Greg,