WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>We screen really every single website that is created in

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<v Speaker 1>the world every day against our models to see whether

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<v Speaker 1>there are new scam websites being created every single day.

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<v Speaker 1>And we have to be at the tip of the

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<v Speaker 1>spab so that we can protect what addresses they're using

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<v Speaker 1>on that scam website, so that we can protect all

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<v Speaker 1>the users around the world before they get scammed. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a constant game of katamaus and now the MISA using AI,

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<v Speaker 1>so we got to get better as gats.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Propy, which is

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<v Speaker 2>leading to charge in putting real estate on chain. Propy

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<v Speaker 2>is a game changer. You can buy and sell real

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<v Speaker 2>estate with cryptocurrencies using the Property platform, which is powered

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<v Speaker 2>by a blockchain of course, and they have a native

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<v Speaker 2>token call pro and I've been an investor in the

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<v Speaker 2>propy token since twenty eighteen. So Propy is a licensed

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<v Speaker 2>Web three pioneer operating since twenty seventeen. They have facilitated

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<v Speaker 2>over four billion dollars in transactions. They're putting titles and

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<v Speaker 2>deeds on chain. They use Coinbase for their crypto escro service.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is a great platform and once again they

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<v Speaker 2>are ahead of the curve. When it comes to putting

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<v Speaker 2>real estate on chain, and they just launch a great

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<v Speaker 2>campaign where you can earn some of the Propy tokens,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's simply by doing tasks such as sharing their

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<v Speaker 2>vision video, signing up and inviting a friend, and much

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<v Speaker 2>more so. If you'd like to learn more about Propy,

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<v Speaker 2>visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, welcome into

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<v Speaker 2>the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward and

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<v Speaker 2>we're recording at Station three in New York's Financial District.

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<v Speaker 2>And joining me is Jonathan Levin, who is the co

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<v Speaker 2>founder and CEO of Chanalysis. Jonathan, great to have you.

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<v Speaker 2>Great to veha Jonathan. I've read about chainnalysis and cover

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<v Speaker 2>chainalysis news over the years. You guys have been doing

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<v Speaker 2>some amazing things and you have a perspective on blockchain

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<v Speaker 2>which I think a lot of people may not have

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<v Speaker 2>because you're looking at the data, the analytics, the transaction.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm excited to dive into that and nerd out

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<v Speaker 2>a bit. But tell us a bit about yourself. Who

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<v Speaker 2>are you, how do you start chainausis and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I'm Jonathan. I grew up in the UK.

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<v Speaker 1>I came to the us for chain analysis. But how

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<v Speaker 1>I got into crypto was actually, you know, a typical

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<v Speaker 1>British story. I was sitting at the pub with my

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<v Speaker 1>friend Tom. We had a few beers and he told

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<v Speaker 1>me we should start arbitrage trading bitcoin back in twenty twelve,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, I didn't do that, as otherwise we

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have started chainalysis, and so instead I went down

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<v Speaker 1>sort of a rabbit hole of understanding really the big

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<v Speaker 1>questions the bitcoin was asking, which is, you know, why

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<v Speaker 1>does the state have a monopoly on the issuance of money?

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<v Speaker 1>Why is the Internet dominated by a few major firms.

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<v Speaker 1>How are we going to construct a global payment system

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<v Speaker 1>for everyone to join the Internet economy? And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>those types of questions led me to think that they

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<v Speaker 1>actually needed to be a company that could tell those

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<v Speaker 1>stories with data rather than just think about, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the use cases. And you know, that's really how chang

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<v Speaker 1>Alsis was born, is really out of a necessity to

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<v Speaker 1>be the company that knows the most about how and

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<v Speaker 1>why people actually use crypto. And that's that's really what

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<v Speaker 1>we've been doing for the last eleven years.

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<v Speaker 2>And you've certainly been a leader net space and it's

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<v Speaker 2>a funny story. You mentioned, you know, you learned about

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<v Speaker 2>it from a friend and a pub I have a

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<v Speaker 2>similar story. I was at Buffalo Wild Wings with four

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<v Speaker 2>other friends. One buddy was trading big oney and he's

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<v Speaker 2>telling us about it where you're having beers and wings.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm like, what is this? It sounds like a scam.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's the best way to learn about it.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, you stay for a few beers

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<v Speaker 1>and it starts to make more and more sense, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it just it just happens.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's funny, you know, initially my reactions as a scam,

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<v Speaker 2>but then he kept bringing it up every other time

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<v Speaker 2>we would go out, and he was started making some money,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course then from there I went down the

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<v Speaker 2>rabbit hole.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's really really interesting. So we started Chainalysis, and

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<v Speaker 1>really the purpose behind it was to make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>crypto exchanges at the time in twenty fourteen fifteen had

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<v Speaker 1>a really time, really hard time getting bank accounts, and

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<v Speaker 1>one of the fundamental questions that banks had for crypto

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<v Speaker 1>businesses was well what are your users actually doing with

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<v Speaker 1>those crypto assets? And the exchanges were having a really

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<v Speaker 1>hard time explaining to banks what the use cases for

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<v Speaker 1>crypto were and really what individual users were doing with

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<v Speaker 1>their crypto, And so we built chainalysis to allow for

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<v Speaker 1>crypto businesses to actually get bank accounts for the first

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<v Speaker 1>time because they could suddenly explain really where the money

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<v Speaker 1>was coming from, where the money was going to, what

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<v Speaker 1>their users were actually using cryptocurrencies for.

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<v Speaker 2>That's pretty profound. The the use initial use case for

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<v Speaker 2>what you guys were doing was to help get banking. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but now we can go beyond that because it could

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<v Speaker 2>be used for marketing user behavior, habits and in building

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<v Speaker 2>the proper solutions. What are the habits of users, what

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<v Speaker 2>do they gravitate to and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that when people think about the blockchain,

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<v Speaker 1>there's definitely a lot of talk about transparency, but actually,

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<v Speaker 1>like that's what chainolsis provides to the businesses in this space,

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<v Speaker 1>is the transparency about what are users actually doing with cryptocurrency,

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<v Speaker 1>What is happening in stable coins, what's happening in DeFi,

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<v Speaker 1>what are the intersections of these different worlds. You read

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<v Speaker 1>a lot about these different use cases of crypto, but

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<v Speaker 1>no one really understands how they actually fit together. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, really what the blockchain is really good at

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<v Speaker 1>is providing that complete map of all of those pieces

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<v Speaker 1>of activity, and you need the analytics and data that

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<v Speaker 1>Chainousis has in order to be able to understand those flows.

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<v Speaker 2>So how does chain elsis plug into all these blockas

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<v Speaker 2>there are many out there, right, how are you what's

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<v Speaker 2>the execution look like to Is it an API driven

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<v Speaker 2>feed and you're monitoring it through software and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So we actually run a lot of nodes ourselves,

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<v Speaker 1>and we use some node providers out there to run

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<v Speaker 1>nodes on our behalf. And then we'll take all of

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<v Speaker 1>the data off of those nodes and index them and

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<v Speaker 1>normalize them to understand how to compute things like the

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<v Speaker 1>balances for individual addresses and wallets, and we transform that

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<v Speaker 1>data into a system of looking at how does money

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<v Speaker 1>move on those blockchains, and we can then recreate sort

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<v Speaker 1>of all of the different ways and which wallets have

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<v Speaker 1>transferred value from one place to another, what has the

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<v Speaker 1>role being of smart contracts in transferring value? And then

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<v Speaker 1>we go and label all of those different was ballets

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<v Speaker 1>and smart contracts with the real world entities that stand

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<v Speaker 1>behind them. So we go out and we find the

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<v Speaker 1>information about which wallets are controlled by coinbase or okax

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<v Speaker 1>or buy bit or binance, and then also you know

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<v Speaker 1>what are all the other use cases of crypto, So

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<v Speaker 1>what are the merchant services, what are the scams, what

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<v Speaker 1>are the hacks, what are the pieces of ransomware that

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<v Speaker 1>are out there? And so you know, together we we

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<v Speaker 1>we build that comprehensive map of hundreds of thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>entities that are really providing services within the crypto economy

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<v Speaker 1>and how all of them have transacted over all time.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's interesting because you're you're you're getting a

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<v Speaker 2>full view of the landscape by doing that, and I'm curious,

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<v Speaker 2>who are the folks that are using your services? Is

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<v Speaker 2>it governments, tradify crypto native firms and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, really it's you know, obviously the government, which we

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<v Speaker 1>can touch on. I would say that anyone who's putting

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<v Speaker 1>a cryptocurrency transaction in a blockchain is using us, but

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<v Speaker 1>in some way, and that could be at the really

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<v Speaker 1>low level where people are using us to monitor the

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<v Speaker 1>security of smart contracts or even blockchain integrity or staking.

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<v Speaker 1>They use our product Hexagate to be able to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>And really that goes into the real nuts and bolts

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<v Speaker 1>of how blockchains work. Every smart contract action, every change

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<v Speaker 1>in keys of governance protocols, any change in price of

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<v Speaker 1>an oracle like, everything can be monitored at that low

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<v Speaker 1>level for us all the way up to the way

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<v Speaker 1>that transactions work and really how value is moving across

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<v Speaker 1>the blockchain. And then that's really sort of everyone from

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<v Speaker 1>the exchange landscape that is using US and all the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest wallets and exchanges around the world.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're getting all this data, certainly you're data mining,

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<v Speaker 2>you're aggregating it, but are you able or to people

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<v Speaker 2>who are using your platform able to see real time

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<v Speaker 2>transactions as well?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? So really, I mean, if you think about our

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<v Speaker 1>observability product that I was just mentioning, that is all

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<v Speaker 1>about preventing hacks or fund loss in real time. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you think about you know, our scam prevention that

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<v Speaker 1>we offer as well, it's all real time screening transactions.

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<v Speaker 1>And so if you are one of the largest exchanges

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<v Speaker 1>in the world, if you are a large wallet in

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<v Speaker 1>the world, you're using chain analysis to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>screen against risk in real time, to make a real

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<v Speaker 1>time decision about whether you should process that deposit, process

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<v Speaker 1>that payment, or make that withdrawal or credit that account.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's something that we pride ourselves on, is that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, really you can have a comprehensive risk monitoring

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<v Speaker 1>solution for this new payment instrument in a way that

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<v Speaker 1>mirrors what you get in traditional finance.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you can share details, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>but as much as you can. What are some of

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<v Speaker 2>the common scams that you're seeing that people are trying

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<v Speaker 2>to do?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, we love this, so we love we love a

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<v Speaker 1>good scam. Ut So there's lots of different scams that happen.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean what we obviously track the different types. I

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<v Speaker 1>would say that, you know, one that we're very familiar

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<v Speaker 1>with is you know, the investment scams that are popping up.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we screen really every single website that is

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<v Speaker 1>created in the world every day and screen that against

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<v Speaker 1>our models to see whether there are new scam websites

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<v Speaker 1>being created every single day, and we have to be

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<v Speaker 1>at the tip of the sphere making sure that we

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<v Speaker 1>can you know, detect those scam websites that look like

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<v Speaker 1>scams that we've seen before, so that we can make

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<v Speaker 1>a you know, deposit and withdraw or we can detect

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<v Speaker 1>what addresses they're using on that scam website so that

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<v Speaker 1>we can protect all the users around the world before

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<v Speaker 1>they get scammed. So we we like a we like

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<v Speaker 1>a high yield investment product better than the next person.

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<v Speaker 1>We go out there, we make you know, we make

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<v Speaker 1>that identification and then we monitor those websites to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to you know, mitigate against you know, scams if

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<v Speaker 1>you are a major exchange and you're allowing users to

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<v Speaker 1>withdraw to those websites. So that's why one type of scam.

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<v Speaker 1>The other types of scams that we see, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>we see scams on on Telegram, on TikTok, on Facebook,

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<v Speaker 1>all these places. A lot of it is really about

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<v Speaker 1>you know, selling goods and services that people are in

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<v Speaker 1>desperate need for. People want to buy you know, music

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<v Speaker 1>theater tickets, or they want to buy you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>couch on Facebook marketplace, or you want to buy Some

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<v Speaker 1>people are buying cars on Facement marketplace. Some people are

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<v Speaker 1>buying pets on Facement marketplace. Like wherever someone is buying

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<v Speaker 1>an object, you know, there is someone selling a fake object.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that, you know, from our perspective, like

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<v Speaker 1>those are all you know, damaging the consumer. The consumer

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<v Speaker 1>is not always losing crypto in those examples. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes sometimes the users are losing their dollars, but a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the infrastructure is paid for in crypto, and

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<v Speaker 1>some of that laundering activity is also in crypto. We

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<v Speaker 1>at Chaine Analysis we like to close what I call

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<v Speaker 1>the intelligent sloop and so we like to look at

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<v Speaker 1>the full life cycle of any threat to the industry

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<v Speaker 1>or to public safety, and we want to close as

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<v Speaker 1>many intelligence sloops as possible. So we will go out

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<v Speaker 1>and we will go and identify these scams, will identify

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<v Speaker 1>them on the whatever the scammer is using to victimize someone,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll collect that information. So whether that's a cash app tag,

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<v Speaker 1>whether that's a PayPal email address, whether that's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a xell phone number, like, we'll go out, we'll collect

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<v Speaker 1>those things and make sure that we can provide it

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<v Speaker 1>to the relevant people to prevent the fund loss ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>from the consumers.

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<v Speaker 3>You mentioned.

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<v Speaker 2>You go out and you look at these different websites,

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<v Speaker 2>and my background is in search marketing, So are using

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of search engine crawler, like a bot crawler

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<v Speaker 2>to go out there like Google.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we we call we built our own crawlers to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to go and do this, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we we we ultimately are looking at the ability for

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<v Speaker 1>us to use at alms to now go and index

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<v Speaker 1>those websites, interact with those websites, and we're using a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of AI under the hood to actually go and

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<v Speaker 1>have those types of interactions.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was going to ask you about AI. How

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<v Speaker 2>are you leveraging that? So do you have AI agents

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<v Speaker 2>doing things?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so we we have what we would call like

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<v Speaker 1>undercover AI agents, if you will. There are essentially you know,

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<v Speaker 1>going out and making transactions and looking at websites and

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<v Speaker 1>building our data set and so really like that's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the force of us actually learning for ten years how

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<v Speaker 1>to go do this manually and ultimately be able to

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<v Speaker 1>train these agents to be able to go out there

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<v Speaker 1>and protect the industry.

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<v Speaker 2>So as the blockchain and web three ecosystem grows, you

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<v Speaker 2>get trac FI coming in building and much more, There's

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<v Speaker 2>going to be a lot of transactions. Jonathan, Right, how

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<v Speaker 2>is chainelsis prepared to handle that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a great question. I mean we think about

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<v Speaker 1>this a lot. I think that you know, ultimately, like

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<v Speaker 1>there are some scale advantages of being in the place

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<v Speaker 1>of chainalysis, the market leader of all of analytics. And

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<v Speaker 1>so you know what we think about is how do

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<v Speaker 1>we make sure that we can continue to collect all

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<v Speaker 1>of the data at scale to label these things. You've

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<v Speaker 1>heard that one of the strategies is to not use

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<v Speaker 1>humans and use agents and yeah, but also you need

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to architectural systems in a way that

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<v Speaker 1>is scalable, you know, Solana and base Us scaling, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you need to be able to identify all

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<v Speaker 1>of the different tokens that trade on those blockchains. And

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<v Speaker 1>actually all of that actually comes down to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>great engineering for you know, scaling these systems, and you

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<v Speaker 1>know we've been we've been doing that for eleven years

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<v Speaker 1>and have a good understanding of it.

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned Solana. You know, we we've seen a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of meme coins launch and Solana would pump that fund.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you monitoring that as well?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well we'll monitor all of the different meme coins

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<v Speaker 1>on on Solana, you know in the you know, tens

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<v Speaker 1>of millions I guess today and as Wild Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>been it's been something that we have really had to

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<v Speaker 1>re engineer our systems to handle these types of different

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<v Speaker 1>use cases, and you know, we used to think about

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<v Speaker 1>individual token support. We don't think about individual token support

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<v Speaker 1>for a blockchain today. We think about blockchain support, and

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<v Speaker 1>tokens come for free in our architecture, and so we

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<v Speaker 1>actually have now scaled to those larger blockchains where there

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<v Speaker 1>are tons of different tokens being issued and all of

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<v Speaker 1>our customers can benefit from seeing anything to do with

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<v Speaker 1>any of those tokens that move on that platform with

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<v Speaker 1>no humans at chain analysis getting involved in supporting that.

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<v Speaker 2>So we talked about the crypto exchange cohort. What about

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<v Speaker 2>governments and tradify? Oh, how are they leveraging your services?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when you think about the government, I mean they

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<v Speaker 1>were actually some of our first customers and really today

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<v Speaker 1>we serve over three hundred and fifty government agencies in

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<v Speaker 1>sixty five countries around the world. We have a very

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<v Speaker 1>large presence among the way that governments really understand what's

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<v Speaker 1>happening on the blockchain, and you know, for us, that's

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<v Speaker 1>all about making sure that they have the tools at

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<v Speaker 1>their disposal to follow the money on the blockchain for investigations,

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<v Speaker 1>public safety, national security, and regulatory oversight. And the regulatory

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<v Speaker 1>oversight piece is the thing that has changed the most

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<v Speaker 1>over the last couple of years, where we went from

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<v Speaker 1>a world of sort of where the US was just

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<v Speaker 1>enforcing against crypto businesses and we've now moved to a

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<v Speaker 1>world of which the regulators are now tosked with overseeing

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<v Speaker 1>the market. And actually that puts us in a different place,

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<v Speaker 1>which is we can actually equip government agencies with the

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<v Speaker 1>tools that they need to have better visibility about what's

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<v Speaker 1>happening in the crypto market than they even have on

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<v Speaker 1>traditional markets that they supervise, and that power changes the

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<v Speaker 1>way that they should be thinking about policy, It changes

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<v Speaker 1>the way they think about examining these companies, and it

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<v Speaker 1>changes the way that there can be a much more

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<v Speaker 1>fruitful collaboration between the venues and their regulators. And really

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<v Speaker 1>that's for us like such a powerful thing for the

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<v Speaker 1>industry because it means that we're going to have like

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<v Speaker 1>a pragmatic regime that all the venues, all the real businesses,

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<v Speaker 1>can innovate faster while the government stays comfortable that they

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<v Speaker 1>have the visibility they need.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've heard data from Chanels's reference in congressional hearings,

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<v Speaker 2>which is amazing. So you have one of the core

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<v Speaker 2>pillars of this industry too. That's needed for this industry

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<v Speaker 2>to grow because you've got to have the insights, the

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<v Speaker 2>data and analytics to monitor all these things.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, we spend a lot of time on

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<v Speaker 1>Capitol Hill. I've been on Capitol Hill myself, and you know, really,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we spend time educating people with the data.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that this is like what I first

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<v Speaker 1>got started with in crypto was people were telling really

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<v Speaker 1>good stories, and we need good storytellers, we need people

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<v Speaker 1>who are going after use cases. We need all of

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<v Speaker 1>those things, but we also need to be very grounded

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<v Speaker 1>in the actual data about how people are using cryptocurrency.

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<v Speaker 1>Is what is this stable coin volume that is existing

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<v Speaker 1>in the world today, Like, what are the flows looking

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<v Speaker 1>like between different countries, what are the types of use

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<v Speaker 1>cases that we actually see getting traction And when we

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<v Speaker 1>come to the government and we explain to them that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there is a very small percentage of the

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<v Speaker 1>overall activity that is related to criminal activity, and we

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<v Speaker 1>can show them the evidence of some of these use cases.

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<v Speaker 1>So really that changes the posture of the policymakers.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, absolutely, you know, as you're saying that, I thought

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<v Speaker 2>of are you able to delineate between bought activity like

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<v Speaker 2>fake transactions and real real Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>We spend a lot of time looking at you know,

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<v Speaker 1>fake tokens, fake transactions, fake volumes like yeah, these are

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<v Speaker 1>all things that you can pick up as you are

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<v Speaker 1>actually looking at the blockchain and looking at these different transactions.

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<v Speaker 2>And then for trad five, are they approaching you now saying, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to get plugged in soil we know what's happening.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would say that. You know, this is something

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<v Speaker 1>that has been one of the fastest growing parts of

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<v Speaker 1>the chainalysis market today is how trad file is actually

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<v Speaker 1>moving into the space to offer products and services to

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<v Speaker 1>their customers. And really, when you think about trad fi,

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<v Speaker 1>trad fi have a much lower risk threshold than anyone

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<v Speaker 1>who's in crypto today. So anyone who's in crypto today

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<v Speaker 1>is like very much an innovator, very much someone who

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<v Speaker 1>likes to be able to offer new products and services

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<v Speaker 1>and move really quickly. You know, traditional finance is in

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<v Speaker 1>the business of you know, they've got a huge brand

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<v Speaker 1>to protect, they have greater scrutiny from regulators, they have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot bigger risk and compliance teams than you know,

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<v Speaker 1>even what we have in some of the largest crypto exchanges,

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<v Speaker 1>and so what they really want is they want to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to access chainalysis, build a full program around it,

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<v Speaker 1>build a scalable solution for them to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>transact on the blockchain. And actually we start to see

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<v Speaker 1>some of the more major banks, you know, take the

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<v Speaker 1>steps towards public chains, and that's a really really exciting

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<v Speaker 1>moment for the industry.

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<v Speaker 2>So on that note, many of these banks and trad

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<v Speaker 2>fin institutions, they have, for example, an in house wall

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<v Speaker 2>garden blockchain permission private, but it bridges to public blockchains

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<v Speaker 2>because that's what the liquidity is, the settlement. So are

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<v Speaker 2>you able to also plug into their private if they

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<v Speaker 2>allow it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so we would. But you know, fundamentally, like the

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<v Speaker 1>way that I think about chain analysis is that the

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<v Speaker 1>value of chainalysis is to be able to understand what's

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<v Speaker 1>happening on public blockchain infrastructure. It's something that we are

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<v Speaker 1>really well placed to understand the most about that ecosystem.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that with all value and money transfer,

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<v Speaker 1>the game is always about liquidity. It's always about where

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<v Speaker 1>is the most liquidity and how does that create the

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<v Speaker 1>most efficient market? And so that will always be on

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<v Speaker 1>a public blockchain. And that's something that I think is

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<v Speaker 1>being realized by trade Fire, is that we start to

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<v Speaker 1>see demand for ubiquitous, instant, low cost payments and value

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<v Speaker 1>transfer of all types, and that can only really exist

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<v Speaker 1>on public infrastructure. It can only really exist in a

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<v Speaker 1>world where everyone can tap into that common standard that

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<v Speaker 1>no one really owns in its entirety, that no one's

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<v Speaker 1>in can of saying who's in and who's out. And

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<v Speaker 1>so this is where I think the traditional finance world

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<v Speaker 1>is realizing that ultimately more and more liquidity is going

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<v Speaker 1>to end up on this public infrastructure that's universally accessible,

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<v Speaker 1>and they need to be ready for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. So on that note, what

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<v Speaker 2>does your vision board look like for a chainalysis by

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<v Speaker 2>twenty thirty, you know, as legislation comes in. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you guys, what do you see chainalysis in

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<v Speaker 2>five years?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I think that the way that we think about

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<v Speaker 1>chainalysis in five years is that we are the company

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<v Speaker 1>that is the intelligence layer for all value that moves

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<v Speaker 1>on the blockchain. And you know, the way that I

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<v Speaker 1>see it is that today there are a few thousand

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<v Speaker 1>entities transacting on chain at scale that are our customers

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<v Speaker 1>and the people that we serve, and ultimately like that

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<v Speaker 1>needs to become like fifty thousand, like there needs to

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<v Speaker 1>then become one hundred thousand, that needs to become then

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<v Speaker 1>a million businesses who are significantly moving value on the blockchain.

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<v Speaker 1>And so once you go up those sort of two

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<v Speaker 1>orders of magnitude, chainnalysis becomes really this ubiquitous layer of

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<v Speaker 1>data and analytics that powers all of those different enterprise

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<v Speaker 1>use cases that get us there. And really I think

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<v Speaker 1>that to some extent, not that we fade all the

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<v Speaker 1>way into the background, but that you know, the whole

424
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:33.039
<v Speaker 1>ecosystem is running on chainalysis data to be able to

425
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.799
<v Speaker 1>assess risk, build better products, build their business cases, build

426
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.400
<v Speaker 1>new financial products. And we really sit there as like

427
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.720
<v Speaker 1>a common layer of intelligence across the whole industry.

428
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.240
<v Speaker 2>And that industry is global, Jonathan, So I can't imagine

429
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:51.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, this scaling that you have to do in

430
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:53.640
<v Speaker 2>demand power that you will need. Obviously at AI helping you,

431
00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:55.559
<v Speaker 2>but you know, people are like, hey, I want to

432
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:58.279
<v Speaker 2>see what's happening in Europe specifically or in Asian markets.

433
00:24:58.599 --> 00:24:59.440
<v Speaker 3>You're able to do that.

434
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So we actually have boots on the ground in

435
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:09.279
<v Speaker 1>over twenty nine countries around the world. You know, that's

436
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:14.319
<v Speaker 1>something that we are really happy to be able to

437
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:18.519
<v Speaker 1>localize our support for those different markets and something that

438
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:20.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, I went around the world with a backpack

439
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:25.079
<v Speaker 1>building these markets. Luckily I didn't have to carry suitcases

440
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:27.759
<v Speaker 1>of cash and we just went in with crypto and

441
00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:31.319
<v Speaker 1>made it a lot easier to build these markets. But actually,

442
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:34.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think that you know, that is starting

443
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:37.440
<v Speaker 1>to pay off for us as we know locally support

444
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:42.160
<v Speaker 1>and serve governments and industry in those different countries around

445
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:42.480
<v Speaker 1>the world.

446
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.720
<v Speaker 2>So, speaking of international I read recently that chanelso has

447
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:49.839
<v Speaker 2>got the first ever academic evaluation blockchain intelligence data by

448
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:55.000
<v Speaker 2>independent academic researchers some tu Delf Netherlands. As a mouthful

449
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:57.400
<v Speaker 2>you can tell us a bit about that, Yeah, sure.

450
00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:00.680
<v Speaker 1>So you know, really, when you think of about the

451
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:05.119
<v Speaker 1>data and intelligence that chainalysis has, it's really hard for

452
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:10.519
<v Speaker 1>people to independently evaluate what is the quality And the

453
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.440
<v Speaker 1>best way to analyze the quality of the data is

454
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:17.319
<v Speaker 1>to have people who have access to the real wallets

455
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.160
<v Speaker 1>that people are interested in tracking and judge independently whether

456
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.119
<v Speaker 1>chain analysis had the real information about the wallets that

457
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:31.839
<v Speaker 1>then law enforcement had actually seized from those targets. And

458
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:35.359
<v Speaker 1>so this study essentially was a partnership between the Dutch

459
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:42.160
<v Speaker 1>police and the university to use information that the Dutch

460
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:46.920
<v Speaker 1>police had seized from criminal entities and test whether chain

461
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:53.119
<v Speaker 1>analysis had an accurate representation of those wallets. And they

462
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:56.680
<v Speaker 1>went to our competitors and they asked them for the data.

463
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:02.799
<v Speaker 1>And once the data started to look like they weren't

464
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.680
<v Speaker 1>going to be looked on favorably, one pulled out of

465
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:10.039
<v Speaker 1>the study and the other actually threatened to sue the police.

466
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:13.680
<v Speaker 1>But in the traditional sort of Dutch fashion, they actually

467
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of put that in the paper, and so you

468
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:19.079
<v Speaker 1>can go read that the Dutch police talked about how

469
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:22.799
<v Speaker 1>the one of the competitors of chainalysis threatened to sue

470
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:27.440
<v Speaker 1>them even if they released anonymous data showing the quality

471
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.079
<v Speaker 1>of that competitors information. So you can see that. You know,

472
00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:34.119
<v Speaker 1>for us, when they came to us and said, like,

473
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:37.200
<v Speaker 1>we'd like to include you in the study, we take

474
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.160
<v Speaker 1>our responsibility as the market leader incredibly seriously and we said,

475
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:43.319
<v Speaker 1>for sure, you can do it, and we'd love to

476
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:45.960
<v Speaker 1>hear any feedback you have about the accuracy that we

477
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:50.119
<v Speaker 1>have and so what we saw in that instance was

478
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:54.759
<v Speaker 1>we had a very high coverage rate. So we detected

479
00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:58.480
<v Speaker 1>ninety five percent on average of the wallets that they

480
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:02.039
<v Speaker 1>were sort of looking at. So that tells you the

481
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:04.759
<v Speaker 1>extent that we could actually go and detect it, and

482
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:08.519
<v Speaker 1>we had, you know, less than aner point not one

483
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:14.119
<v Speaker 1>percent or around nor point not one percent false positive

484
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:19.119
<v Speaker 1>rate on all of the addresses for actors that are

485
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.920
<v Speaker 1>intending to evade our detection and make our lives difficult.

486
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.079
<v Speaker 1>And so if you think about that, like that's the

487
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:29.799
<v Speaker 1>thing that has actually allowed chainnalysis evidence to be the

488
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:32.920
<v Speaker 1>only evidence that actually stands up in court that has

489
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.920
<v Speaker 1>the scientific method behind it, that has the rigor behind it.

490
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:39.680
<v Speaker 1>And so both for government agencies that need to be

491
00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:44.240
<v Speaker 1>able to rely on scientific evidence where you can back

492
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:49.400
<v Speaker 1>up really the analysis that's happening about what's happening on

493
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:54.319
<v Speaker 1>the blockchain, and for businesses that want to make really

494
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:58.400
<v Speaker 1>hard decisions about the risk of their customers, you know,

495
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:02.440
<v Speaker 1>they come to chain analysis to have that golden standard

496
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.559
<v Speaker 1>versus people that aren't willing to have their data inspected

497
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:07.839
<v Speaker 1>and held up to scrutiny.

498
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:10.079
<v Speaker 2>I think I know the answer to this question, but

499
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:13.440
<v Speaker 2>with the tokenization market on the rise, people are tokenizing

500
00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:16.160
<v Speaker 2>different assets, goal money market funds and so forth. Is

501
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:18.720
<v Speaker 2>it the same blockchain transactions that you're able to monitor

502
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:20.279
<v Speaker 2>or you have to do something different there?

503
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:23.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's roughly the same from our perspective.

504
00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:27.599
<v Speaker 1>I would say though that you know, again, if you

505
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:31.240
<v Speaker 1>think about the risk that someone's willing to take on

506
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:38.000
<v Speaker 1>a tokenized security, and even like a tokenized equity, you're

507
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:42.359
<v Speaker 1>starting to get new forms of value transfer, new types

508
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:47.759
<v Speaker 1>of relationship between the issuer and those assets and maybe

509
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.079
<v Speaker 1>the custodian, and so you started to get like a

510
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:55.680
<v Speaker 1>more complex financial instrument than we've seen before in the blockchain, right,

511
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:59.359
<v Speaker 1>And what that means for us is that we help

512
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:05.799
<v Speaker 1>companies like Securitize think about how to monitor for all

513
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:09.519
<v Speaker 1>types of manipulation, all types of risk that's involved in

514
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:14.480
<v Speaker 1>those types of smart contracts. And that's something that we

515
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:18.079
<v Speaker 1>as chain ours think that that is the future. And

516
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:23.400
<v Speaker 1>those entities that are helping people tokenize those instruments and

517
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.319
<v Speaker 1>the people that stand behind those instruments are going to

518
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:32.519
<v Speaker 1>have a need for much greater risk management than even

519
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.559
<v Speaker 1>an asset like bitcoin or ethereum, where you don't have

520
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:40.200
<v Speaker 1>a counterparty on the other side. And so the moment

521
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 1>that you start to have counterparties and the moment that

522
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:45.559
<v Speaker 1>these relationships become more complex, the more you need to

523
00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:48.119
<v Speaker 1>actually understand the mechanics of what's happening on the blockchain.

524
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I did want to get your thoughts on DeFi because

525
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:53.920
<v Speaker 2>DeFi has had its struggles and its headwinds at its face.

526
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, I often say version one point zero of

527
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.119
<v Speaker 2>anything is not great. We've seen a lot of hacks

528
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:01.519
<v Speaker 2>and vulnerabilities. Are things getting better?

529
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:04.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I think things are absolutely getting better. And I

530
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:08.640
<v Speaker 1>think that you know, I think when you think about

531
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the sort of evolution of you know, compound, are the

532
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:19.160
<v Speaker 1>curve even sort of balancer even though they recently were hacked.

533
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, the level of sophistication and the

534
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:26.599
<v Speaker 1>level of scrutiny on these protocols has improved them a

535
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.160
<v Speaker 1>lot since the early days. And I would say that

536
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:32.920
<v Speaker 1>there's two things that I think about that are really

537
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.119
<v Speaker 1>important for people to pay attention to. One is there

538
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:41.200
<v Speaker 1>are blue chip defied protocols. There are like really the

539
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:44.640
<v Speaker 1>top end of the market that have faced sort of

540
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:47.759
<v Speaker 1>very high levels of scrutiny that have had, you know,

541
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:51.960
<v Speaker 1>billions of dollars go through them. Those those types of

542
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:56.519
<v Speaker 1>places are vastly improved from really DeFi one point zero,

543
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.880
<v Speaker 1>which is like now a long time ago. But I

544
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:04.200
<v Speaker 1>think that, you know, one one thing is the technology

545
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.839
<v Speaker 1>getting better and more robust, and I think that that

546
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.440
<v Speaker 1>is getting a lot better. The other thing, though, is

547
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:15.200
<v Speaker 1>like the sophistication of the teams is also improving, and like,

548
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:20.279
<v Speaker 1>I love technology more than anyone, but you have to

549
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:25.279
<v Speaker 1>understand where technology meets humans. And actually these teams that

550
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:30.759
<v Speaker 1>are helping you manage and really create these protocols are

551
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:36.240
<v Speaker 1>now starting to have much more sophisticated mechanisms of pausing protocols,

552
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.400
<v Speaker 1>of intervening when necessary. And actually, you know, I think

553
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:44.799
<v Speaker 1>that you know, while the original vision of true DeFi

554
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:50.319
<v Speaker 1>of it being fully decentralized and fully every like code

555
00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:53.279
<v Speaker 1>is law and all of that good stuff, like, there

556
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.359
<v Speaker 1>is like a place in the market for something that's

557
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:00.960
<v Speaker 1>a bit more hybrid, something that has level of control

558
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:07.039
<v Speaker 1>that is fully automated and executes permissionlessly, but actually that

559
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.440
<v Speaker 1>there is still some governance behind it, and there is

560
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.559
<v Speaker 1>an adaptability, and there is upgrades, and there is the

561
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:17.759
<v Speaker 1>ability to have teams intervene in worst case scenarios, and

562
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:20.480
<v Speaker 1>I think that we are still going to find our

563
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:24.400
<v Speaker 1>way in terms of our ability to capture the most

564
00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:28.720
<v Speaker 1>value for the consumer from people who are able to

565
00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:34.839
<v Speaker 1>both have the sort of programmability and the predictive nature

566
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:39.400
<v Speaker 1>of DeFi with some of the controls in place of

567
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:43.079
<v Speaker 1>the teams that can actually help adapt to crazy circumstances.

568
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:46.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, and then having Chaine Elsis as a resource

569
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:48.640
<v Speaker 2>to be able to you know, maybe developers and these

570
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:50.880
<v Speaker 2>folksho are working on things can get a better view

571
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.839
<v Speaker 2>of what's happening behind the scenes and they can build things.

572
00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:54.200
<v Speaker 3>That are better.

573
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

574
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:56.839
<v Speaker 3>I think it's when when on that.

575
00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Front, I know you've got to go soon, So I

576
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:00.720
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to ask what's on your role map and

577
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:02.039
<v Speaker 2>we'll hit some wrap up questions.

578
00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:05.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Sure. So we are really busy at chain oursis

579
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:10.599
<v Speaker 1>thinking about really building you know, this risk platform that

580
00:34:11.159 --> 00:34:14.880
<v Speaker 1>allows people to monitor for the anti money laundering risk

581
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:17.679
<v Speaker 1>that we're probably best known for the fraud prevention side

582
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.239
<v Speaker 1>on scams and really all of the security questions that

583
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:25.519
<v Speaker 1>trad FID tokenization happens, and really anyone in the industry

584
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:29.079
<v Speaker 1>who's moving money needs to be worried about, and we've

585
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:33.039
<v Speaker 1>we've built some interesting things and continuing to work on

586
00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:36.719
<v Speaker 1>some things. On the security side. For example, we've built

587
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.360
<v Speaker 1>a model to detect whether your hot wallet is being

588
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:43.599
<v Speaker 1>compromised or not. We look at anomalous activity and try

589
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:48.599
<v Speaker 1>and help exchanges counter that type of risk. We've built

590
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:53.400
<v Speaker 1>products that help with the by bit hack scenario, and

591
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:56.480
<v Speaker 1>we're constantly responding on the security side to the latest

592
00:34:56.559 --> 00:35:00.199
<v Speaker 1>threats that we are seeing happen on the blockchain. On

593
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:03.079
<v Speaker 1>the scam prevention side, we're continuing to expand on you know,

594
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:06.239
<v Speaker 1>everyone's favorite scam and you know, we're not quite in

595
00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:10.480
<v Speaker 1>the romance scam space, but we're definitely we're definitely looking

596
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.440
<v Speaker 1>at every every type of scam type. And then I

597
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:15.280
<v Speaker 1>would tell you that, you know, on the compliance end

598
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:19.360
<v Speaker 1>of things, like we're really looking at much more automation,

599
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:24.199
<v Speaker 1>much more thinking about how do we build more flexibility

600
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.199
<v Speaker 1>into how people are monitoring for those types of risks

601
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:29.199
<v Speaker 1>and how do they how do they make sure that

602
00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:32.559
<v Speaker 1>there is good decision making happening but you have all

603
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:36.239
<v Speaker 1>the information at your fingertips. We've done lots of good

604
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:41.480
<v Speaker 1>stuff on the investigation side. Over the past few months,

605
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:44.440
<v Speaker 1>and you know, we're really continuing to help law enforcement

606
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.239
<v Speaker 1>find the best ways to look at our data more

607
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:52.039
<v Speaker 1>holistically as well as you know, seize funds when they

608
00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:56.840
<v Speaker 1>come across it on investigations using a new product that

609
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:58.599
<v Speaker 1>we're that we put in the market called wallet scam,

610
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:01.400
<v Speaker 1>which we're really excited about, has already helped seize you know,

611
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:05.320
<v Speaker 1>hundreds of millions of dollars in criminal proceeds. And so, yeah,

612
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:08.920
<v Speaker 1>really really excited about you know, the roadmap on both

613
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:11.800
<v Speaker 1>our public sector offerings and our private sector offerings.

614
00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:14.679
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome and exciting, and it's good to hear that

615
00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:18.000
<v Speaker 2>the good actors have tools like change alsis because the

616
00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:20.440
<v Speaker 2>bad actors, you know, they're up to no good all

617
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:20.840
<v Speaker 2>the time.

618
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:22.400
<v Speaker 3>So it's a constant battle.

619
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:26.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a constant game of catamouse. And now the

620
00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:29.880
<v Speaker 1>MYSA are using AI, so we got to we've got

621
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:31.880
<v Speaker 1>to get better as as cats.

622
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:34.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, all right, wrap up questions, because I know

623
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:35.960
<v Speaker 2>you got to go first. If you could create your

624
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:38.599
<v Speaker 2>own metaverse, would the theme be That's.

625
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:41.519
<v Speaker 1>A great question. I think that the theme for me

626
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:44.840
<v Speaker 1>is actually everyone would ride around my metaverse on a

627
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:49.239
<v Speaker 1>bicycle and so, you know, I'm a I'm a big cyclist,

628
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:51.360
<v Speaker 1>and I wish that we lived in the world with

629
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:54.599
<v Speaker 1>no cars and you know, everyone just moved around space

630
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:58.559
<v Speaker 1>and bicycles and so I actually, I would love to

631
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.679
<v Speaker 1>live in a metaverse where there were no cars and

632
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:02.199
<v Speaker 1>you know, only bicycles.

633
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:04.559
<v Speaker 3>Awesome rapid fire questions. Favorite food.

634
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.760
<v Speaker 1>Favorite food is going to be all Japanese food, and

635
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.360
<v Speaker 1>you know that could be anything from you know, sushi

636
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:17.000
<v Speaker 1>to ramen, to on to really koseki and everything else.

637
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:18.079
<v Speaker 3>I love Japanese food.

638
00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:20.599
<v Speaker 2>And favorite musician or band.

639
00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:23.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna have to say, hi, am So, I'm actually

640
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:26.480
<v Speaker 1>h I'm actually engaged to the bass player of High

641
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:30.039
<v Speaker 1>am So. She's uh, I've been I've been on I've

642
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:32.039
<v Speaker 1>been on tour with them this year and it's been

643
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:35.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, yeah.

644
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:36.400
<v Speaker 3>She she listens.

645
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:41.480
<v Speaker 1>A favorite movie, Usual Suspects.

646
00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:42.760
<v Speaker 3>Favorite book.

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00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:47.760
<v Speaker 1>It's a hard question. I think that uh, you know,

648
00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:53.440
<v Speaker 1>in a in a business context, it's really dense. But

649
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:57.559
<v Speaker 1>High Output Management by Andy Grove is an incredible book

650
00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and something that I think of daily.

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00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.000
<v Speaker 2>I have to check that one out. We're not working

652
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:03.480
<v Speaker 2>at chanalysis, what are you doing for fun?

653
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:08.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm running by schools in very weird places, and you'll

654
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:10.440
<v Speaker 1>catch me cheffing every once.

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00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:12.039
<v Speaker 3>In a while. Very cool, Jonathan.

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00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:14.440
<v Speaker 2>We're going to have to do a round two, maybe

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00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:16.440
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty six, as you continue to roll out

658
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:18.360
<v Speaker 2>some great products. But thank you so much for joining me.

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00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:20.440
<v Speaker 1>No, thanks so much, Sanning, really appreciate it.