WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:05.799 Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping 2 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:07.960 his wing. They've down in a force. Man, it gonna 3 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:11.320 cause a tree fall, letting five thousand miles away. Man, 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:18.039 nobody see it, nobody else, And I see that. You 5 00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:20.079 don't need to know. Man, we don't they like you 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:23.120 fall this point and you got back and like that. 7 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:26.280 That's the way man got back to dag on the pana. 8 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:26.519 Man. 9 00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:28.079 Now you don't don't better. 10 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:41.600 Manka Cornelius Kodrianu once said, the first and fiercest punishment 11 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:46.159 ought to fall first on the trader, second on the enemy. 12 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:49.039 If I had but one bullet, and we're faced by 13 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:51.640 both an enemy and a trader, I would let the 14 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:55.079 trader have it the risk of fed posting. This is 15 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:59.280 a situation I think we find ourselves in. Often we 16 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:04.079 have clear enemies, people who dislike us, who wish for 17 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:07.439 our way of life to be impossible, and they're not 18 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:12.200 particularly subtle about it. But what's particularly galling is being 19 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:15.920 stabbed in the back over and over and over again. 20 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:21.400 This is why I spend so much time attacking American conservatives, 21 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:27.200 because we've seen this exact dynamic play out where people 22 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:30.560 who we have graded on a curve quite a lot 23 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:34.760 in common with are most interested in seeking us out, 24 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:41.120 punishing us, fighting us first and foremost, instead of the enemy, 25 00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:46.359 their nominal opposition. This is something that has happened in politics, 26 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:50.079 obviously we're kind of in the middle of a great snakening, 27 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:54.760 as someone once said, but also in the field of culture, 28 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:58.959 in the field of religion. This episode starts off in 29 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:02.359 one place and goes to another, but the second really 30 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:07.359 two thirds of this episode are about exactly that. The 31 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:13.879 betrayal of cowardly conservatives, people who say many of the 32 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:18.639 right things, who oppose the woke mind virus quote unquote, 33 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:21.919 but are unwilling to actually do anything about it, are 34 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:24.879 unwilling to bear any social cost, are unwilling to do 35 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:30.520 anything that might be mean, and instead they will pull 36 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:33.800 out all the stops. They will stoop to an incredibly 37 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:37.719 low level. They will hit below the belt, not against 38 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:41.560 their nominal enemies, but against you and I. Functionally, we 39 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:46.439 are more their enemies than the quote unquote woke left. 40 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:52.120 Something to bear in mind, and look, at least publicly 41 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:55.400 on the Internet. I'm not going to espouse what KODRIANU 42 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.960 has said, at least to the degree that he did, 43 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:05.520 but it's a common feeling. Nonetheless that really the reason 44 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.319 we can't get anything done has a lot to do 45 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:12.599 with traitors, has a lot to do with people stabbing 46 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.199 us in the back over and over and over again. 47 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:20.439 The first third, as I said, is different. I'm talking 48 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:23.680 with my guest about being an alpaca farmer, and the 49 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:28.719 second half is about exactly this pattern in American religious life. 50 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:31.919 You don't necessarily have to be a Christian to get 51 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:34.800 anything out of it. We don't really get into theology, 52 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.439 but at least in America, right wing politics and Christianity 53 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:43.479 are nearly synonymous. Especially in the practical real world they are, 54 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:47.280 and so really it's one in the same conversation, conversation 55 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:50.879 about religion the conversation about politics. So I think you'll 56 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:53.199 get a lot out of it. I guess is a 57 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:56.840 little bit. I want to say, I'm more obscure. Not 58 00:03:56.919 --> 00:04:01.039 a huge account, but his writing is good. It's fun 59 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:03.400 guy to talk to, so be sure to check it 60 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.479 out before we get into it. I should say this 61 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:11.000 episode is sponsored by Axios Remote Fitness and Coaching. I 62 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.039 heard a lot of good things from the new guys 63 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:16.040 who've listened to my ads and who've come in to 64 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:18.879 the Axios group chat. Also, if you want the episodes 65 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.240 early in ed free send me a few bucks on Patreon, 66 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:24.720 Substack or gum Road. Without further ado, here's the episode. 67 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:28.480 All right, dude, welcome to the Jay Birds Show. 68 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:31.680 How you doing, man, I'm doing great, Jay, Thank you 69 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:33.120 for having me. I appreciate it. 70 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:39.079 Yeah, man, you are a highly requested guest and I'm 71 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:42.480 glad to finally get on get you on. But uh, 72 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:44.360 before we get into it, man, who are you and 73 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:44.879 what do you do? 74 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:49.759 Yeah? I'm pop alt Paka. I am Twitter's only right 75 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:53.639 wing cameloid, and I pride myself on you know the 76 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.920 power of that. I wheeled in Jay's replies on Twitter 77 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:01.439 when he solicits for potential talk and guests. I think 78 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:06.279 discussions about alpacas and other ruminids and camelids and animal 79 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:10.199 husbandry is desperately underserved on the right wing. And so 80 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:12.480 I know, I know there's probably some listeners thinking right 81 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.519 now this is just the throwaway episode. Whatever I'm telling you, 82 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:17.000 this is information everybody needs. 83 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:22.959 Oh yeah, I mean, look like I'll be honest, I 84 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:25.879 saw a camel like a week ago, I'd drive into 85 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.639 the middle of nowhere, Tennessee, and I was immediately and 86 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:31.879 totally enraptured by it. But not an animal I see 87 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.759 often in the South, and my experiences with with lamas 88 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:39.680 in particular have not been as positive, at least in 89 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:43.240 my limited experience. They're kind of jerks. But you're right, 90 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:46.000 it is an underserved market, especially on the dissonance side 91 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:46.399 of twitter. 92 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.800 Yeah, you know, they the you know, the camels all 93 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:53.160 got off the arc at the same time. Some went 94 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:56.759 to the Andes and became lamas and alpacas. Some stayed 95 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.759 in Egypt and Africa. You know, we became dromedaries and camels. 96 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:04.680 They all have different personalities, and it's the you know, 97 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:09.000 lamas are the ornery, kind of semi special cousins of 98 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:11.439 of the out packets. But for the most part, we're 99 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:15.319 you know, we're gentle uh. We we we like attention 100 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.360 and and hugs. Uh. And the truth is is, you know, 101 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:24.399 the I never had any intention of ever owning out pockets, uh, 102 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:27.120 But but here we are, and I'm I'm forced by 103 00:06:27.319 --> 00:06:29.839 circumstance and fate to uh to love these creatures. 104 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.639 How do you back into that? Did someone just like 105 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:36.759 give you one? Did were you did. Do you go 106 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:38.639 to the store and buy one? Like, how do you 107 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:41.480 get into that? I guess that hobby. 108 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:44.759 It's a very black market operation, and it starts the 109 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:48.839 way all life changing decisions start. Jay. You uh, you 110 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:53.680 gaslight your wife into eventually agreeing with you about moving 111 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:57.600 out of you know, a nice hov neighborhood, buying some 112 00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:59.800 piece of land out in the country and then filling 113 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:03.680 it with pointless exotic animals. But the outpaca thing was 114 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:07.720 was her idea. She found a Facebook marketplace ad, which 115 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:10.839 was immediately taken down because apparently livestock ads are against 116 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:16.519 tos on Facebook. But we ended up, you know, it 117 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:18.879 went down to this farm. They were like, yeah, we 118 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:22.399 need to get rid of their entire herd. We'll throw 119 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:24.279 in all of our farm equipment for you, like all 120 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.399 of our feeders and our troughs, and we have a 121 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:29.279 year's worth of hay that you can take. It was 122 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:32.720 kind of an out pack of fire sale. And it 123 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:36.240 was it was right during COVID, like the early stages 124 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:38.240 of COVID, and we were like, you know what, it's 125 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:40.279 grew it. We got nothing better to do. We want, 126 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:42.439 you know, we want our kids to have an agrarian 127 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:45.839 style life and grow up taking care of animals and stuff. 128 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:47.959 You know, this is we were maybe just going to 129 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:49.519 get a couple of sheep and call it a day, 130 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:54.279 But why not adopt an entire herd of alpacas and 131 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:57.360 put them on a small farmt. 132 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.519 So two questions, and forgive me if this is too direct. 133 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:05.000 How much does an outpaka run you? And how many 134 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:05.519 do you have? 135 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:12.800 So we started with a dozen, like fourteen or fifteen. 136 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:16.399 And normally, you know, if you're going through the appropriate 137 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.920 channels of a livestock auction auction and you're you're buying 138 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:23.720 certified bloodlines and all that kind of stuff, trying to 139 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:29.680 maximize fiber production or whatever, you're going to go for 140 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:34.039 anywhere between like five and fifteen thousand dollars per animal. 141 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:38.559 Obviously like studs or are a little more expensive. In 142 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:43.399 our case, we got an incredible deal, one that turned 143 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:48.519 out to be too good to be true. 144 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:53.159 So two things. One you said you started out with 145 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:57.720 you know, fourteen or fifteen. That implies that number has changed. 146 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.639 Have you lost some alpacas or is the herd growing? 147 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:10.600 We have intentionally ceased any growth. Turns out the Instagram 148 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:15.639 real culture of the twenty fifteen to twenty twenties promoting 149 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:21.679 the homestead lifestyle neglected to inform you of all of 150 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:25.200 all the work and the negative ramifications of engaging in 151 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:30.399 that lifestyle, and the price tag on our particular outpack 152 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:33.080 of farm is too good to be true. Turns out, 153 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:37.399 the owners, you know, retired old couple, they work their 154 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:40.399 entire lives, saving up and scrimping to be able to 155 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:44.320 retire onto a farm and raise our pacas. And then 156 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:48.360 he gets hit by an illegal alien drunk driving while 157 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.840 he was riding his motorcycle and loses several appendages, has 158 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.360 multiple open art surgeries, can no longer take care of 159 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:57.320 these animals, and the buddy that was living on a 160 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:00.639 trailer in their property was an alcoholic and was neglecting 161 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:03.039 all of them. So we ended up, you know, what 162 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:06.600 we bought was actually a herd full of problems. And 163 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:09.519 it turns out like when when you can't just take 164 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:12.879 an out paca to a normal vet for dogs and cats, 165 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:15.120 you know, if you show up at like the emergency 166 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:19.200 vet clinic, they don't take livestock, So you end up 167 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:23.600 having to find a facility that has the capacity to 168 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:28.039 take big live stock. But also does exotic animals, because 169 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:32.559 it turns out outpacas are considered exotic animals. So the 170 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:36.120 first week we got the animals, we started noticing like 171 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:39.759 their significant you know, health issues. We had a couple 172 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:42.639 of real little ones are called kreas when they're babies. 173 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.559 We had some creas that were showing like signs of 174 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:50.480 health issues, and like we end up panicking trying to 175 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:53.879 find a stinking vet. And that looks like loading up 176 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:57.039 your out packs into the back of a suburban and 177 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:03.080 driving them up to the local state coll agricultural extension 178 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:04.960 to try to get these outpack is treated. 179 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:10.159 So can you fit an now paka in the back 180 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:10.799 of a suburban? 181 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:14.200 Yeah, they do this funny thing it's called cushing. Where 182 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:16.559 they they it's like a cat loaf, you know what 183 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:18.919 I mean, Where they they pull their legs up underneath 184 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.840 of them and they get real, real condensed. The only 185 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:24.960 the trouble is the neck. So as long as you're 186 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.159 able to like manipulate the neck and keep it, you know, 187 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:29.840 out of your way while you're driving, it's pretty fine. 188 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:34.159 So you've mentioned cats, and obviously that you know, the 189 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:37.159 stereotype is that dogs are great and the car cats aren't. 190 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:40.759 How does it outpacka deal with transport because I imagine if 191 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.279 an animal that big throws up, it's kind of a nightmare. 192 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:48.440 Yeah, Uh, it's you know, you you put a sock 193 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.960 over their mouth and uh, you know, try do your 194 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:53.039 best to try to like squeeze them in and keep 195 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:55.799 them from having enough room to run around in panic 196 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:57.600 because you don't want them to hurt yourself or hurt 197 00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:01.080 your car. But it does. It's a head turner. You know, 198 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:04.600 you're driving through town with an outpaca head out the window. 199 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:10.360 It's it's definitely something that people pay attention to when 200 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:13.480 you're road raging with an outpaca. 201 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:17.600 One other thing you mentioned earlier, the fiber production. I 202 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:21.759 imagine one that's why they're worth money, and two that's 203 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:25.279 a decent amount of work. So were you sharing out packas? 204 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:25.960 Is that what you do? 205 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:27.960 I don't really know much about them, as you can 206 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:28.639 probably tell. 207 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:32.480 Yeah, neither did we, uh until we had to start 208 00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:36.320 living it. It turns out there's a whole cottage industry 209 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:42.919 of of literal gypsies that do nothing but shear sheep 210 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:47.320 and alpaca all up and down the coasts for you know, 211 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:51.080 their their entire spring into summer, and that's that's what 212 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:53.960 they do for for work. So we ended up, you know, 213 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.440 we hired gypsies. And you know, another way instagram reels 214 00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.960 lined to you is they don't you just have out 215 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:02.600 and then magically there's socks that appear, and you can 216 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:06.200 sell these socks at the nice, boutique, cushy farmer's market 217 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.440 in the upscale neighborhoods. And that it turned out not 218 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.120 to be the case. Even before we could ship the 219 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.559 fiber off to a mill. There's a lot of work 220 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:18.519 that goes into like sorting the fibers and cleaning the 221 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.679 fibers and all that. And as much as enthusiastic as 222 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:26.039 my wife was about the alpacas initially, it turns out 223 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:28.639 having multiple small children running around steals a lot of 224 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:32.039 your time away from pulling alpaca manure out of their 225 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:35.240 fiber before sending it to shipping. So we have yet 226 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:39.799 to see socks manifest in our barn at all. 227 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:46.919 So you say that you this isn't something that you 228 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:50.120 grew up with, right you kind of decided to make 229 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:52.519 a run of it. Did you have any experience in 230 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:55.120 farming or with large animals or did you really just 231 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:57.519 see a Facebook ad and decide to roll the dice? 232 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.799 Yeah, I mean growing up, I'm I'm the weird millennial 233 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:06.519 like Sliver. That's that was like outside of the wholesome 234 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:09.919 chungus nonsense, but also kind of the last chopper out 235 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:14.320 of non with real estate and uh we my entire life, 236 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.919 my my family, my parents did that thing where they 237 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.039 would go check out real estate listings. Uh and as 238 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.320 a kid, you're like, wow, we're gonna we're gonna upgrade 239 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:25.080 this this like one hundred acre farm with a pool, 240 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:27.159 and uh now it turns out they were just kind 241 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:30.840 of window shopping and curious about what was available in 242 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:33.919 the market. So it got into my head this meme 243 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:38.360 that you know, real American gentry it requires land and 244 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:43.039 animals and stuff. And uh as we we did the 245 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:47.320 neighborhood and the Hoa and uh am I you know, 246 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:50.919 we we found a little bit of success in finance industry. 247 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:53.919 So we we did like the McMansion in the Marina 248 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:56.960 neighborhood and all that stuff, and uh the whole time 249 00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:59.080 we were just we just wanted to be on the 250 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:04.159 country and so that it kind of just Instagram but 251 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.159 I think reinforced all that you know, the homestead meme 252 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:12.600 uh built into us, this this propagandistic desire to uh 253 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:15.919 to you know, really make a go at it. And 254 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.639 I think we just undercounted the amount of work. But yeah, 255 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.840 going into it, we knew nothing about taking care of animals, 256 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:25.960 parasite loads, what hay costs, whether or not I need 257 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:27.919 to attract there. And there was a lot of a 258 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.639 lot of mistakes and along the way, but it definitely 259 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:33.080 was an interesting learning experience. 260 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.000 To be blunt, would you recommend it right for the 261 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:44.519 kind of suburbanite to strike out and quite literally buy 262 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:46.320 fifteen ol packas on a whim? 263 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:47.600 No? 264 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:53.000 Uh, we you know, we are presently de transitioning away 265 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:56.519 from the homestead meme and have been since you know, 266 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:58.480 the kid number two and three. 267 00:15:59.000 --> 00:15:59.120 Uh. 268 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:04.639 But the you know, no one tells you what you know, 269 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:06.879 how how your kids are going to feel when your 270 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:09.039 outpacka breaks its leg and you have to you have 271 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:12.080 a choice between spending ten thousand dollars on getting rods 272 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:15.159 installed that probably aren't going to work to get this 273 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.840 outpack of walking again, uh, versus taking Grandpa's forty four 274 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.039 and you know, manually digging a hole big enough for 275 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.759 an outpacka grave. Uh. So there's there's a lot of 276 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.000 like you know, I think I think we from from 277 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.039 my perspective, we idealize the lifestyle and uh and didn't 278 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:36.200 consider the ramifications of it, especially not going into it 279 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.279 full time. You know, if you're if you're a guy 280 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:41.440 that's uh that wants to add a little agrarianism into 281 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.919 your lifestyle, but you you're a career guy, Uh, there's 282 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.759 ways to do that. I would not recommend buying an 283 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.639 entire herd of outpaka when you already have like fifty 284 00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:54.879 chickens and four goats and all sorts of like other projects. 285 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:01.080 So just just for for kind of mental calculation here, 286 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:03.080 how much does a full grown outpack away. 287 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:08.480 We have one who uh he's kind of the alpha, 288 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:13.440 and he's probably two hundred with a full coat, but 289 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:15.880 like you know, a buck seventy five buck eighty. 290 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.079 All right, in the interest of fairness, will just say 291 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:23.920 one hundred and fifty pounds. I don't know that seems right. 292 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:29.440 So you know, basically you bought around twenty three hundred 293 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:35.559 pounds of animal, you know, all together. I mean, I'll 294 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:39.799 be honest, I like your I like the attitude, right, 295 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:41.480 jumping into the deep end there. 296 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:42.480 Uh. 297 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:47.079 But in addition, right, I know, we spent fifteen minutes 298 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:51.519 talking about alpacas, but you're also a writer, a kind 299 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.640 of commentator. And look, if you were getting to the 300 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:58.119 point of deciding to move onto a homestead, you're pretty 301 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:00.680 far down the rabbit hole. So you mentioned, you know, 302 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:03.960 kind of that weird generational window. But how do you 303 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:05.200 get on this side of the internet. 304 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.519 Well, yeah, my my, I was an early adopter to 305 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:14.799 a lot of the things that we discussed, you know, 306 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:19.599 the deficiencies of the American Church and a lot of 307 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.400 the liberalization and feminization that was happening, especially in like 308 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.839 reformed Protestant circles where where I cut my teeth. I 309 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:29.720 somehow missed the essay era of the twenty tens and 310 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:34.480 twenty twenties. But you know, I went from the plucky, 311 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:39.880 you know, kind of kind of you know, never relaxing 312 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:43.279 type of Ron Paul libertarian in college, and then I 313 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.799 started reading like primary source materials and did a little 314 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.839 bit of constitutional law and reading Scotis decisions and all that, 315 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.559 and was like, wow, this system kind of sucks. Like 316 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.680 everything was changed something happened in the twentieth century. There 317 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:02.920 was these some people revised the entire American ethos and 318 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.319 uh and a significant chunk of our of our historical 319 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.319 cannon and uh and now we're we're you know, not 320 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.160 allowed to have a country for some reason. 321 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:12.880 Uh. 322 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:17.480 You know, they the local areas kept getting more and 323 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:21.720 more priced out to to my you know, generational cohorts. 324 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:24.279 Like I noticed I was the only person in the 325 00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:27.880 neighborhood that was that wasn't a boomer or gen x. Uh. 326 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:29.759 My kids didn't have anyone to play with in the 327 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:33.640 neighborhood because other parents were priced out. And so it's 328 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.799 just it started. Yeah, I had I had been kicked 329 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.720 off Twitter, like way back in the early ages before, uh, 330 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:44.480 before Elon, So I never really came back until Elon 331 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:47.839 bought it. And you know, Twitter became a place where 332 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:50.599 I could, uh, I could vent, I guess and do 333 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:54.519 some stream of conscious like performative outrage at at a 334 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:57.359 lot of nonsense that was happening. Uh. But more importantly, 335 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.400 I think it was a place where I able to 336 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:04.759 organize and kind of find some guys and turn online 337 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:08.480 friends into real life friends and build up that network. 338 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.759 Yeah, there's a couple of things you mentioned there. You know, 339 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:16.680 I don't talk about it as explicitly as I guess 340 00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:19.880 I could on air, but I very much kind of 341 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.680 I am still a part of the reform tradition, and 342 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:30.480 it's been interesting watching that whole segment of the world 343 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:34.079 sort of undergo an ordeal of civility, if you will. 344 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:38.000 Like there's a you know, a large conference actually, I 345 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:42.960 think today or tomorrow in Denver, where a big group 346 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.400 of reformed guys are you know, being forced to battle 347 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:50.240 it out right over an issue that is seemingly inconsequential. 348 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:52.200 But you know, if you've been around long enough, you 349 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:54.519 understand this stuff is the narrow end of the wedge. 350 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.400 You know. The idea is, oh, well, you know we 351 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:01.680 we of course here are opposed to gay marriage. But 352 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:05.079 if you were your same sex attracted but non practicing, 353 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:09.400 well that's totally fine. We can ordain you. And of 354 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.559 course we understand how that goes, right. One that is 355 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:16.599 a slippery slope. And two if you call yourself gay 356 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.519 basically if you are gay, but you really pinky promise 357 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:25.920 not to actually do it. Come on, guys, we understand 358 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:30.279 how this works. And so look like you're you know, 359 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:34.279 about a half generation older than I am. But what 360 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:36.759 were the things that you started to notice first where 361 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:39.799 it seemed as if the kind of I won't even 362 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:45.279 say progressive, but the kind of you know, American cultural values, 363 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:48.039 you know, and the kind of modern sense started to 364 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:50.160 creep into you know, your religious community. 365 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.119 Yeah, for me, it was hands on experience because I 366 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:00.680 wasn't significantly online like I was not. You know, any 367 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.359 old hats in the reform circles will remember the like 368 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:08.079 the the Geneva common days on Facebook and uh, you know, 369 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:12.079 any number of Twitter UH spats that have happened at 370 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.880 the risk of sounding way too ghetto wised within you 371 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:20.079 know that that weird reform sphere. My personal experience was 372 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:24.000 just that these pastors that I was, you know, I 373 00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:27.599 helped plant churches, I helped fund churches, I was, I was, 374 00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:32.160 you know, doing all of the things that were expected 375 00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:35.680 of a layman to participate in the life, in the 376 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:39.880 mission of the church. And then slowly we you know, 377 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:44.960 the this desire was revealed where where pastors were more 378 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:50.000 interested in accumulating new members through UH diversity and through 379 00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:54.519 refugee missions UH and doing it in a way that 380 00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:59.160 kind of took took priority over serving the needs of 381 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:03.079 the actual members of the church. And in my denomination, 382 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:05.839 you know, there was a big push they realized this 383 00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:09.880 denomination is ninety five to ninety eight percent white, you know, 384 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:13.599 middle class people, and they decided that was a problem. 385 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:17.359 And so these these big guys like you know, Tim 386 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:22.440 Keller and these pop pastors had a real intellectual pool 387 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:27.640 within the reformed seminary academic structure, and it filtered down 388 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:32.799 into these into pastors. You know, and I have controversial 389 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:37.160 opinions on seminaries these days. But it ended up with 390 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:42.000 me confronting these pastors about, hey, like you are divesting 391 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.759 the actual community that you're pledged to serve as our 392 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.759 shepherd from the resources of the church, specifically like your 393 00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:54.039 time the treasurer of the church, the time of the deacons, 394 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:55.759 and all these people that are supposed to be ministering 395 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:59.440 into the lives of real people in our community to 396 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.440 do these projects and to do these you know, diversity missions. 397 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:10.200 But the it ended up being a position where in 398 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:14.920 those conversations they became increasingly incensed at my incivility on it. 399 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:17.480 They didn't like the specific words I was using, the 400 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:20.920 rhetoric I was using, and the rhetoric, you know, turned 401 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:23.599