Speaker 1: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping
Speaker 1: his wing. They've down in a force. Man, it gonna
Speaker 1: cause a tree fall, letting five thousand miles away. Man,
Speaker 1: nobody see it, nobody else, And I see that. You
Speaker 1: don't need to know. Man, we don't they like you
Speaker 1: fall this point and you got back and like that.
Speaker 1: That's the way man got back to dag on the pana.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: Now you don't don't better.
Speaker 3: Manka Cornelius Kodrianu once said, the first and fiercest punishment
Speaker 3: ought to fall first on the trader, second on the enemy.
Speaker 3: If I had but one bullet, and we're faced by
Speaker 3: both an enemy and a trader, I would let the
Speaker 3: trader have it the risk of fed posting. This is
Speaker 3: a situation I think we find ourselves in. Often we
Speaker 3: have clear enemies, people who dislike us, who wish for
Speaker 3: our way of life to be impossible, and they're not
Speaker 3: particularly subtle about it. But what's particularly galling is being
Speaker 3: stabbed in the back over and over and over again.
Speaker 3: This is why I spend so much time attacking American conservatives,
Speaker 3: because we've seen this exact dynamic play out where people
Speaker 3: who we have graded on a curve quite a lot
Speaker 3: in common with are most interested in seeking us out,
Speaker 3: punishing us, fighting us first and foremost, instead of the enemy,
Speaker 3: their nominal opposition. This is something that has happened in politics,
Speaker 3: obviously we're kind of in the middle of a great snakening,
Speaker 3: as someone once said, but also in the field of culture,
Speaker 3: in the field of religion. This episode starts off in
Speaker 3: one place and goes to another, but the second really
Speaker 3: two thirds of this episode are about exactly that. The
Speaker 3: betrayal of cowardly conservatives, people who say many of the
Speaker 3: right things, who oppose the woke mind virus quote unquote,
Speaker 3: but are unwilling to actually do anything about it, are
Speaker 3: unwilling to bear any social cost, are unwilling to do
Speaker 3: anything that might be mean, and instead they will pull
Speaker 3: out all the stops. They will stoop to an incredibly
Speaker 3: low level. They will hit below the belt, not against
Speaker 3: their nominal enemies, but against you and I. Functionally, we
Speaker 3: are more their enemies than the quote unquote woke left.
Speaker 3: Something to bear in mind, and look, at least publicly
Speaker 3: on the Internet. I'm not going to espouse what KODRIANU
Speaker 3: has said, at least to the degree that he did,
Speaker 3: but it's a common feeling. Nonetheless that really the reason
Speaker 3: we can't get anything done has a lot to do
Speaker 3: with traitors, has a lot to do with people stabbing
Speaker 3: us in the back over and over and over again.
Speaker 3: The first third, as I said, is different. I'm talking
Speaker 3: with my guest about being an alpaca farmer, and the
Speaker 3: second half is about exactly this pattern in American religious life.
Speaker 3: You don't necessarily have to be a Christian to get
Speaker 3: anything out of it. We don't really get into theology,
Speaker 3: but at least in America, right wing politics and Christianity
Speaker 3: are nearly synonymous. Especially in the practical real world they are,
Speaker 3: and so really it's one in the same conversation, conversation
Speaker 3: about religion the conversation about politics. So I think you'll
Speaker 3: get a lot out of it. I guess is a
Speaker 3: little bit. I want to say, I'm more obscure. Not
Speaker 3: a huge account, but his writing is good. It's fun
Speaker 3: guy to talk to, so be sure to check it
Speaker 3: out before we get into it. I should say this
Speaker 3: episode is sponsored by Axios Remote Fitness and Coaching. I
Speaker 3: heard a lot of good things from the new guys
Speaker 3: who've listened to my ads and who've come in to
Speaker 3: the Axios group chat. Also, if you want the episodes
Speaker 3: early in ed free send me a few bucks on Patreon,
Speaker 3: Substack or gum Road. Without further ado, here's the episode.
Speaker 3: All right, dude, welcome to the Jay Birds Show.
Speaker 4: How you doing, man, I'm doing great, Jay, Thank you
Speaker 4: for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, you are a highly requested guest and I'm
Speaker 3: glad to finally get on get you on. But uh,
Speaker 3: before we get into it, man, who are you and
Speaker 3: what do you do?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I'm pop alt Paka. I am Twitter's only right
Speaker 4: wing cameloid, and I pride myself on you know the
Speaker 4: power of that. I wheeled in Jay's replies on Twitter
Speaker 4: when he solicits for potential talk and guests. I think
Speaker 4: discussions about alpacas and other ruminids and camelids and animal
Speaker 4: husbandry is desperately underserved on the right wing. And so
Speaker 4: I know, I know there's probably some listeners thinking right
Speaker 4: now this is just the throwaway episode. Whatever I'm telling you,
Speaker 4: this is information everybody needs.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, look like I'll be honest, I
Speaker 3: saw a camel like a week ago, I'd drive into
Speaker 3: the middle of nowhere, Tennessee, and I was immediately and
Speaker 3: totally enraptured by it. But not an animal I see
Speaker 3: often in the South, and my experiences with with lamas
Speaker 3: in particular have not been as positive, at least in
Speaker 3: my limited experience. They're kind of jerks. But you're right,
Speaker 3: it is an underserved market, especially on the dissonance side
Speaker 3: of twitter.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, they the you know, the camels all
Speaker 4: got off the arc at the same time. Some went
Speaker 4: to the Andes and became lamas and alpacas. Some stayed
Speaker 4: in Egypt and Africa. You know, we became dromedaries and camels.
Speaker 4: They all have different personalities, and it's the you know,
Speaker 4: lamas are the ornery, kind of semi special cousins of
Speaker 4: of the out packets. But for the most part, we're
Speaker 4: you know, we're gentle uh. We we we like attention
Speaker 4: and and hugs. Uh. And the truth is is, you know,
Speaker 4: the I never had any intention of ever owning out pockets, uh,
Speaker 4: But but here we are, and I'm I'm forced by
Speaker 4: circumstance and fate to uh to love these creatures.
Speaker 3: How do you back into that? Did someone just like
Speaker 3: give you one? Did were you did. Do you go
Speaker 3: to the store and buy one? Like, how do you
Speaker 3: get into that? I guess that hobby.
Speaker 4: It's a very black market operation, and it starts the
Speaker 4: way all life changing decisions start. Jay. You uh, you
Speaker 4: gaslight your wife into eventually agreeing with you about moving
Speaker 4: out of you know, a nice hov neighborhood, buying some
Speaker 4: piece of land out in the country and then filling
Speaker 4: it with pointless exotic animals. But the outpaca thing was
Speaker 4: was her idea. She found a Facebook marketplace ad, which
Speaker 4: was immediately taken down because apparently livestock ads are against
Speaker 4: tos on Facebook. But we ended up, you know, it
Speaker 4: went down to this farm. They were like, yeah, we
Speaker 4: need to get rid of their entire herd. We'll throw
Speaker 4: in all of our farm equipment for you, like all
Speaker 4: of our feeders and our troughs, and we have a
Speaker 4: year's worth of hay that you can take. It was
Speaker 4: kind of an out pack of fire sale. And it
Speaker 4: was it was right during COVID, like the early stages
Speaker 4: of COVID, and we were like, you know what, it's
Speaker 4: grew it. We got nothing better to do. We want,
Speaker 4: you know, we want our kids to have an agrarian
Speaker 4: style life and grow up taking care of animals and stuff.
Speaker 4: You know, this is we were maybe just going to
Speaker 4: get a couple of sheep and call it a day,
Speaker 4: But why not adopt an entire herd of alpacas and
Speaker 4: put them on a small farmt.
Speaker 3: So two questions, and forgive me if this is too direct.
Speaker 3: How much does an outpaka run you? And how many
Speaker 3: do you have?
Speaker 4: So we started with a dozen, like fourteen or fifteen.
Speaker 4: And normally, you know, if you're going through the appropriate
Speaker 4: channels of a livestock auction auction and you're you're buying
Speaker 4: certified bloodlines and all that kind of stuff, trying to
Speaker 4: maximize fiber production or whatever, you're going to go for
Speaker 4: anywhere between like five and fifteen thousand dollars per animal.
Speaker 4: Obviously like studs or are a little more expensive. In
Speaker 4: our case, we got an incredible deal, one that turned
Speaker 4: out to be too good to be true.
Speaker 3: So two things. One you said you started out with
Speaker 3: you know, fourteen or fifteen. That implies that number has changed.
Speaker 3: Have you lost some alpacas or is the herd growing?
Speaker 4: We have intentionally ceased any growth. Turns out the Instagram
Speaker 4: real culture of the twenty fifteen to twenty twenties promoting
Speaker 4: the homestead lifestyle neglected to inform you of all of
Speaker 4: all the work and the negative ramifications of engaging in
Speaker 4: that lifestyle, and the price tag on our particular outpack
Speaker 4: of farm is too good to be true. Turns out,
Speaker 4: the owners, you know, retired old couple, they work their
Speaker 4: entire lives, saving up and scrimping to be able to
Speaker 4: retire onto a farm and raise our pacas. And then
Speaker 4: he gets hit by an illegal alien drunk driving while
Speaker 4: he was riding his motorcycle and loses several appendages, has
Speaker 4: multiple open art surgeries, can no longer take care of
Speaker 4: these animals, and the buddy that was living on a
Speaker 4: trailer in their property was an alcoholic and was neglecting
Speaker 4: all of them. So we ended up, you know, what
Speaker 4: we bought was actually a herd full of problems. And
Speaker 4: it turns out like when when you can't just take
Speaker 4: an out paca to a normal vet for dogs and cats,
Speaker 4: you know, if you show up at like the emergency
Speaker 4: vet clinic, they don't take livestock, So you end up
Speaker 4: having to find a facility that has the capacity to
Speaker 4: take big live stock. But also does exotic animals, because
Speaker 4: it turns out outpacas are considered exotic animals. So the
Speaker 4: first week we got the animals, we started noticing like
Speaker 4: their significant you know, health issues. We had a couple
Speaker 4: of real little ones are called kreas when they're babies.
Speaker 4: We had some creas that were showing like signs of
Speaker 4: health issues, and like we end up panicking trying to
Speaker 4: find a stinking vet. And that looks like loading up
Speaker 4: your out packs into the back of a suburban and
Speaker 4: driving them up to the local state coll agricultural extension
Speaker 4: to try to get these outpack is treated.
Speaker 3: So can you fit an now paka in the back
Speaker 3: of a suburban?
Speaker 4: Yeah, they do this funny thing it's called cushing. Where
Speaker 4: they they it's like a cat loaf, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, Where they they pull their legs up underneath
Speaker 4: of them and they get real, real condensed. The only
Speaker 4: the trouble is the neck. So as long as you're
Speaker 4: able to like manipulate the neck and keep it, you know,
Speaker 4: out of your way while you're driving, it's pretty fine.
Speaker 3: So you've mentioned cats, and obviously that you know, the
Speaker 3: stereotype is that dogs are great and the car cats aren't.
Speaker 3: How does it outpacka deal with transport because I imagine if
Speaker 3: an animal that big throws up, it's kind of a nightmare.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Uh, it's you know, you you put a sock
Speaker 4: over their mouth and uh, you know, try do your
Speaker 4: best to try to like squeeze them in and keep
Speaker 4: them from having enough room to run around in panic
Speaker 4: because you don't want them to hurt yourself or hurt
Speaker 4: your car. But it does. It's a head turner. You know,
Speaker 4: you're driving through town with an outpaca head out the window.
Speaker 4: It's it's definitely something that people pay attention to when
Speaker 4: you're road raging with an outpaca.
Speaker 3: One other thing you mentioned earlier, the fiber production. I
Speaker 3: imagine one that's why they're worth money, and two that's
Speaker 3: a decent amount of work. So were you sharing out packas?
Speaker 4: Is that what you do?
Speaker 3: I don't really know much about them, as you can
Speaker 3: probably tell.
Speaker 4: Yeah, neither did we, uh until we had to start
Speaker 4: living it. It turns out there's a whole cottage industry
Speaker 4: of of literal gypsies that do nothing but shear sheep
Speaker 4: and alpaca all up and down the coasts for you know,
Speaker 4: their their entire spring into summer, and that's that's what
Speaker 4: they do for for work. So we ended up, you know,
Speaker 4: we hired gypsies. And you know, another way instagram reels
Speaker 4: lined to you is they don't you just have out
Speaker 4: and then magically there's socks that appear, and you can
Speaker 4: sell these socks at the nice, boutique, cushy farmer's market
Speaker 4: in the upscale neighborhoods. And that it turned out not
Speaker 4: to be the case. Even before we could ship the
Speaker 4: fiber off to a mill. There's a lot of work
Speaker 4: that goes into like sorting the fibers and cleaning the
Speaker 4: fibers and all that. And as much as enthusiastic as
Speaker 4: my wife was about the alpacas initially, it turns out
Speaker 4: having multiple small children running around steals a lot of
Speaker 4: your time away from pulling alpaca manure out of their
Speaker 4: fiber before sending it to shipping. So we have yet
Speaker 4: to see socks manifest in our barn at all.
Speaker 3: So you say that you this isn't something that you
Speaker 3: grew up with, right you kind of decided to make
Speaker 3: a run of it. Did you have any experience in
Speaker 3: farming or with large animals or did you really just
Speaker 3: see a Facebook ad and decide to roll the dice?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean growing up, I'm I'm the weird millennial
Speaker 4: like Sliver. That's that was like outside of the wholesome
Speaker 4: chungus nonsense, but also kind of the last chopper out
Speaker 4: of non with real estate and uh we my entire life,
Speaker 4: my my family, my parents did that thing where they
Speaker 4: would go check out real estate listings. Uh and as
Speaker 4: a kid, you're like, wow, we're gonna we're gonna upgrade
Speaker 4: this this like one hundred acre farm with a pool,
Speaker 4: and uh now it turns out they were just kind
Speaker 4: of window shopping and curious about what was available in
Speaker 4: the market. So it got into my head this meme
Speaker 4: that you know, real American gentry it requires land and
Speaker 4: animals and stuff. And uh as we we did the
Speaker 4: neighborhood and the Hoa and uh am I you know,
Speaker 4: we we found a little bit of success in finance industry.
Speaker 4: So we we did like the McMansion in the Marina
Speaker 4: neighborhood and all that stuff, and uh the whole time
Speaker 4: we were just we just wanted to be on the
Speaker 4: country and so that it kind of just Instagram but
Speaker 4: I think reinforced all that you know, the homestead meme
Speaker 4: uh built into us, this this propagandistic desire to uh
Speaker 4: to you know, really make a go at it. And
Speaker 4: I think we just undercounted the amount of work. But yeah,
Speaker 4: going into it, we knew nothing about taking care of animals,
Speaker 4: parasite loads, what hay costs, whether or not I need
Speaker 4: to attract there. And there was a lot of a
Speaker 4: lot of mistakes and along the way, but it definitely
Speaker 4: was an interesting learning experience.
Speaker 3: To be blunt, would you recommend it right for the
Speaker 3: kind of suburbanite to strike out and quite literally buy
Speaker 3: fifteen ol packas on a whim?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: Uh, we you know, we are presently de transitioning away
Speaker 4: from the homestead meme and have been since you know,
Speaker 4: the kid number two and three.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 4: But the you know, no one tells you what you know,
Speaker 4: how how your kids are going to feel when your
Speaker 4: outpacka breaks its leg and you have to you have
Speaker 4: a choice between spending ten thousand dollars on getting rods
Speaker 4: installed that probably aren't going to work to get this
Speaker 4: outpack of walking again, uh, versus taking Grandpa's forty four
Speaker 4: and you know, manually digging a hole big enough for
Speaker 4: an outpacka grave. Uh. So there's there's a lot of
Speaker 4: like you know, I think I think we from from
Speaker 4: my perspective, we idealize the lifestyle and uh and didn't
Speaker 4: consider the ramifications of it, especially not going into it
Speaker 4: full time. You know, if you're if you're a guy
Speaker 4: that's uh that wants to add a little agrarianism into
Speaker 4: your lifestyle, but you you're a career guy, Uh, there's
Speaker 4: ways to do that. I would not recommend buying an
Speaker 4: entire herd of outpaka when you already have like fifty
Speaker 4: chickens and four goats and all sorts of like other projects.
Speaker 3: So just just for for kind of mental calculation here,
Speaker 3: how much does a full grown outpack away.
Speaker 4: We have one who uh he's kind of the alpha,
Speaker 4: and he's probably two hundred with a full coat, but
Speaker 4: like you know, a buck seventy five buck eighty.
Speaker 3: All right, in the interest of fairness, will just say
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty pounds. I don't know that seems right.
Speaker 3: So you know, basically you bought around twenty three hundred
Speaker 3: pounds of animal, you know, all together. I mean, I'll
Speaker 3: be honest, I like your I like the attitude, right,
Speaker 3: jumping into the deep end there.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: But in addition, right, I know, we spent fifteen minutes
Speaker 3: talking about alpacas, but you're also a writer, a kind
Speaker 3: of commentator. And look, if you were getting to the
Speaker 3: point of deciding to move onto a homestead, you're pretty
Speaker 3: far down the rabbit hole. So you mentioned, you know,
Speaker 3: kind of that weird generational window. But how do you
Speaker 3: get on this side of the internet.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, my my, I was an early adopter to
Speaker 4: a lot of the things that we discussed, you know,
Speaker 4: the deficiencies of the American Church and a lot of
Speaker 4: the liberalization and feminization that was happening, especially in like
Speaker 4: reformed Protestant circles where where I cut my teeth. I
Speaker 4: somehow missed the essay era of the twenty tens and
Speaker 4: twenty twenties. But you know, I went from the plucky,
Speaker 4: you know, kind of kind of you know, never relaxing
Speaker 4: type of Ron Paul libertarian in college, and then I
Speaker 4: started reading like primary source materials and did a little
Speaker 4: bit of constitutional law and reading Scotis decisions and all that,
Speaker 4: and was like, wow, this system kind of sucks. Like
Speaker 4: everything was changed something happened in the twentieth century. There
Speaker 4: was these some people revised the entire American ethos and
Speaker 4: uh and a significant chunk of our of our historical
Speaker 4: cannon and uh and now we're we're you know, not
Speaker 4: allowed to have a country for some reason.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: You know, they the local areas kept getting more and
Speaker 4: more priced out to to my you know, generational cohorts.
Speaker 4: Like I noticed I was the only person in the
Speaker 4: neighborhood that was that wasn't a boomer or gen x. Uh.
Speaker 4: My kids didn't have anyone to play with in the
Speaker 4: neighborhood because other parents were priced out. And so it's
Speaker 4: just it started. Yeah, I had I had been kicked
Speaker 4: off Twitter, like way back in the early ages before, uh,
Speaker 4: before Elon, So I never really came back until Elon
Speaker 4: bought it. And you know, Twitter became a place where
Speaker 4: I could, uh, I could vent, I guess and do
Speaker 4: some stream of conscious like performative outrage at at a
Speaker 4: lot of nonsense that was happening. Uh. But more importantly,
Speaker 4: I think it was a place where I able to
Speaker 4: organize and kind of find some guys and turn online
Speaker 4: friends into real life friends and build up that network.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a couple of things you mentioned there. You know,
Speaker 3: I don't talk about it as explicitly as I guess
Speaker 3: I could on air, but I very much kind of
Speaker 3: I am still a part of the reform tradition, and
Speaker 3: it's been interesting watching that whole segment of the world
Speaker 3: sort of undergo an ordeal of civility, if you will.
Speaker 3: Like there's a you know, a large conference actually, I
Speaker 3: think today or tomorrow in Denver, where a big group
Speaker 3: of reformed guys are you know, being forced to battle
Speaker 3: it out right over an issue that is seemingly inconsequential.
Speaker 3: But you know, if you've been around long enough, you
Speaker 3: understand this stuff is the narrow end of the wedge.
Speaker 3: You know. The idea is, oh, well, you know we
Speaker 3: we of course here are opposed to gay marriage. But
Speaker 3: if you were your same sex attracted but non practicing,
Speaker 3: well that's totally fine. We can ordain you. And of
Speaker 3: course we understand how that goes, right. One that is
Speaker 3: a slippery slope. And two if you call yourself gay
Speaker 3: basically if you are gay, but you really pinky promise
Speaker 3: not to actually do it. Come on, guys, we understand
Speaker 3: how this works. And so look like you're you know,
Speaker 3: about a half generation older than I am. But what
Speaker 3: were the things that you started to notice first where
Speaker 3: it seemed as if the kind of I won't even
Speaker 3: say progressive, but the kind of you know, American cultural values,
Speaker 3: you know, and the kind of modern sense started to
Speaker 3: creep into you know, your religious community.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for me, it was hands on experience because I
Speaker 4: wasn't significantly online like I was not. You know, any
Speaker 4: old hats in the reform circles will remember the like
Speaker 4: the the Geneva common days on Facebook and uh, you know,
Speaker 4: any number of Twitter UH spats that have happened at
Speaker 4: the risk of sounding way too ghetto wised within you
Speaker 4: know that that weird reform sphere. My personal experience was
Speaker 4: just that these pastors that I was, you know, I
Speaker 4: helped plant churches, I helped fund churches, I was, I was,
Speaker 4: you know, doing all of the things that were expected
Speaker 4: of a layman to participate in the life, in the
Speaker 4: mission of the church. And then slowly we you know,
Speaker 4: the this desire was revealed where where pastors were more
Speaker 4: interested in accumulating new members through UH diversity and through
Speaker 4: refugee missions UH and doing it in a way that
Speaker 4: kind of took took priority over serving the needs of
Speaker 4: the actual members of the church. And in my denomination,
Speaker 4: you know, there was a big push they realized this
Speaker 4: denomination is ninety five to ninety eight percent white, you know,
Speaker 4: middle class people, and they decided that was a problem.
Speaker 4: And so these these big guys like you know, Tim
Speaker 4: Keller and these pop pastors had a real intellectual pool
Speaker 4: within the reformed seminary academic structure, and it filtered down
Speaker 4: into these into pastors. You know, and I have controversial
Speaker 4: opinions on seminaries these days. But it ended up with
Speaker 4: me confronting these pastors about, hey, like you are divesting
Speaker 4: the actual community that you're pledged to serve as our
Speaker 4: shepherd from the resources of the church, specifically like your
Speaker 4: time the treasurer of the church, the time of the deacons,
Speaker 4: and all these people that are supposed to be ministering
Speaker 4: into the lives of real people in our community to
Speaker 4: do these projects and to do these you know, diversity missions.
Speaker 4: But the it ended up being a position where in
Speaker 4: those conversations they became increasingly incensed at my incivility on it.
Speaker 4: They didn't like the specific words I was using, the
Speaker 4: rhetoric I was using, and the rhetoric, you know, turned
Speaker 4: into well, you're you know, you're trying to deport my
Speaker 4: adoptive daughter, or you're you want me to tell these
Speaker 4: refugees that were ministering too that they need to go
Speaker 4: back to their country where they came from. And you know,
Speaker 4: there was never there was never any middle ground between hey,
Speaker 4: we should we should serve the purpose of the churches
Speaker 4: for the members, and yeah, there's an evangelical call, there's
Speaker 4: a great commission. You know, I have probably disagreements with
Speaker 4: you on what that looks like, but the purpose of
Speaker 4: the churches is for the members of the church and
Speaker 4: their spiritual health and you know, well being. And I
Speaker 4: think anybody who reads the epistles can agree with that.
Speaker 4: So then I turned to Twitter and on Facebook and
Speaker 4: realize like, oh, it's not just my personal experience. There's
Speaker 4: there's an entire system dedicated to promoting this through the
Speaker 4: Gospel Coalition and through all these other avenues of attack.
Speaker 4: And you know, became very disenchanted very quickly with the
Speaker 4: modern role of pastor.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, to that point, the Gospel Coalition
Speaker 3: is a great example. My wife and I read these articles,
Speaker 3: and I just I chimp out right. They drive me
Speaker 3: nuts because it's very frustrating. They adopt this morally high
Speaker 3: handed language right to condemn all the people that they hate,
Speaker 3: and they have no problem using the harshest possible language.
Speaker 3: I think of Carl Truman, right pastor he's at Grove City.
Speaker 3: I think as a dean as well, kind of modern
Speaker 3: conservative intellectual who's actually written some halfway de books. The
Speaker 3: rise in triumph of the Modern Self is one I've
Speaker 3: cited often on this channel in my writing. But he
Speaker 3: goes on this rant, this really insane rant about the
Speaker 3: quote unquote alt right, and the alt right, of course,
Speaker 3: is a term that's ten years out of date at
Speaker 3: a minimum. And in his version, the alt right is
Speaker 3: Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly and Candae Owens. And Okay, Carl,
Speaker 3: I don't really think you know what you're talking about,
Speaker 3: but these are the figures, right, the sort of a
Speaker 3: manual Goldstein hate figures of the so called alt right.
Speaker 3: And you know what, I guess you know what. You're
Speaker 3: allowed to disagree with those figures. I certainly do, you
Speaker 3: know in very specific examples. But the real meat of
Speaker 3: it is an absolutely savage attack on the disgusting, basement dwelling,
Speaker 3: jobless idiots that listen to these people. One, I think
Speaker 3: we all are aware that the demos that listen to
Speaker 3: those channels are not the neats they think they are,
Speaker 3: you know, like the average Megan Kelly Dweller is not
Speaker 3: a man living in his mom's basement. I'm sorry. But
Speaker 3: also right, that same ordeal of civility, the idea that, oh,
Speaker 3: if you express your opinion, that's that's that's unacceptable. We
Speaker 3: can't you can't talk like that. Well, when it's someone
Speaker 3: they dislike personally, not just on a political level, they
Speaker 3: have this vitriol. Well, that's completely in totally okay, that's
Speaker 3: doing you know, the Lord's work, right, there's no consistency
Speaker 3: to that, you know, that stance, that civility, it's entirely contextual.
Speaker 3: And what you basically see is you're not allowed to
Speaker 3: be in any way rude or inconvenience or inconveniencing clients
Speaker 3: of the regime pick your poison, but anyone else is
Speaker 3: fair game. It's sort of an approved hate target, if
Speaker 3: you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that was that was the realization when it
Speaker 4: finally hit it's you know, all kind of painted the
Speaker 4: picture of you know, we in my denomination. We had
Speaker 4: this big controversy over something called revoice, which was like,
Speaker 4: how do we rejigger our our approach to homosexuality in
Speaker 4: the in a way that like where we still condemn
Speaker 4: it technically, which will appease the conservatives. Uh, but we're
Speaker 4: open to discussions about sexuality being a spectrum and where
Speaker 4: people that have uh you know, they're born this way,
Speaker 4: so like we have to make room for them in
Speaker 4: in our ecclesial structure. And it was all it was
Speaker 4: all just to to cater to uh, the you know
Speaker 4: whatever the entropic liberalism, liberalizing force of the day was.
Speaker 4: And they did it with with the race stuff as well.
Speaker 4: You know, I remember the pastor was talking. You know,
Speaker 4: we had uh what was then Michael around. You know,
Speaker 4: we had to do some sort of performative uh you know,
Speaker 4: lessons on racial reconciliation and we're going to do a
Speaker 4: specific prayer group and about unifying the community. And the
Speaker 4: pastor is going to go march at a BLM protest.
Speaker 4: And meanwhile, like the during all of this, uh, there
Speaker 4: was a family that was that was taken out by
Speaker 4: a black activist within like driving distance of the church,
Speaker 4: and there was never any not even like a Facebook post,
Speaker 4: you know, like oh, we're we're real sorry for the
Speaker 4: community and praying for for the peace of the community.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 4: I was just you know, completely ignored that in favor
Speaker 4: of what was happening in you know, the broader zeitgeist
Speaker 4: within that liberal frame. And so yeah, it's the entropic
Speaker 4: forces of liberalism have have infected the church root in
Speaker 4: stem and it's it's you know, pan denominational. It's not
Speaker 4: specific to any one group anymore.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and look, some of my best friends or
Speaker 3: Orthodox so I can say this, but you guys love
Speaker 3: to play this game where you're like, well, it doesn't
Speaker 3: ever happen to us, We're so perfect and insulated from this.
Speaker 3: And then you get a little deeper and you're like,
Speaker 3: what about the Greeks And they're like, well, they don't count,
Speaker 3: they don't count. And look, I get it. I understand
Speaker 3: that where you're like, they're not the same as me.
Speaker 3: But regardless of your faith tradition, you see this same thing,
Speaker 3: this desire to compromise. And I speak the most about
Speaker 3: the Protestant version of it, because that's what I'm the
Speaker 3: most familiar with. But what drives me up the wall
Speaker 3: the moral framing that like genuinely triggers me PACA is
Speaker 3: the the idea that by you know, adopting this stance
Speaker 3: on racial or sexual issues, we're really fighting. We're taking
Speaker 3: it up for the underdog. We are doing the brave
Speaker 3: things by defying society. We're being existing contra the world
Speaker 3: capital T capital W And it's like, no, you're not.
Speaker 3: You agree with Chase Bank, you agree with the United Nations.
Speaker 3: You have sacrificed what you were supposed to think for power,
Speaker 3: and because of that you get to get this. You
Speaker 3: sort of get to keep this mental image of yourself
Speaker 3: as you're speaking truth to power. And it drives me
Speaker 3: up the walls crazy. The people get to play pretend
Speaker 3: as brave, they get to play pretend as selfish, you know, revolutionaries,
Speaker 3: when in actuality they are slaves to power and nothing more.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, they you know, the it ends up
Speaker 4: being this uh, this self reinforcing uh phenomenon where these
Speaker 4: these seminaries, you know, they they have to cater their
Speaker 4: careerulum to the academic elites within these circles, the academic elites,
Speaker 4: uh agree with statements like David French is a true
Speaker 4: conservative Christian and uh. And it's it just cycles all
Speaker 4: the way down into the pews where you end up
Speaker 4: with a with guys like me, who are you know,
Speaker 4: uh dispositionally a little little anti establishment, a little contrarian uh.
Speaker 4: And you know, we start asking uncomfortable questions uh, and
Speaker 4: we have to be absolutely uh trounced uh, you know,
Speaker 4: from from by church discipline or whatever social uh social
Speaker 4: functions are available to them, the tools of making sure
Speaker 4: that we're uncomfortable in their churches. Because the truth is,
Speaker 4: people just need permission to believe, you know what what
Speaker 4: the Bible says in a lot of cases, and all
Speaker 4: of that's getting filtered through. You know, the people aren't
Speaker 4: going to become subject matter experts uh naturally unless they
Speaker 4: have a particularized interest in that, unfortunately. And so the
Speaker 4: pastor's role now is giving people permission to believe in
Speaker 4: whatever the current liberal thing is, the current progressive issue.
Speaker 4: And that's what what drove me out of that. You know,
Speaker 4: I have a copy of Sacred Rhetoric by R. L.
Speaker 4: Dabney on my desk right now. I have a copy
Speaker 4: of the Westminster Standards and the Three Forms of Unity,
Speaker 4: and I started reading and realizing that something happened in
Speaker 4: nineteen sixties in the church that changed so much of
Speaker 4: like what was the acceptable dogma in doctrines of the church,
Speaker 4: you know, much like Rome during Martin Luther's times. I
Speaker 4: started seeing like these guys added so much to this,
Speaker 4: so much syncretism between whatever the evangelicalism and regime, you know,
Speaker 4: liberalism that was twenty years you know, past, twenty years
Speaker 4: in the past. Uh, and it was just being reinforced
Speaker 4: by these pastors. And so once you once you that's
Speaker 4: why I guess projects like you know, there's there's resourcement
Speaker 4: projects happening all over the internet right now. But it's
Speaker 4: so important because you you start to realize, no, there
Speaker 4: is a discontinuity between the historic views of my direct
Speaker 4: ancestors that have been part of this religious tradition for
Speaker 4: hundreds of years. Uh. And what this pastor has been
Speaker 4: telling me from the pulpit because he learned it at
Speaker 4: you know, reform theological seminary or something.
Speaker 3: Well, and that's the that's really the source of a
Speaker 3: lot of this, is it tends to be top down.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I can think of a number of examples where relatively orthodox,
Speaker 3: small orthodox, as in identifiably traditional congregations were turned into
Speaker 3: these sort of you know, aging liberal social clubs by leadership. Right,
Speaker 3: you had maybe not a super active, maybe not a
Speaker 3: super politically aware, but constitutionally conservative group of people. And
Speaker 3: you know, new leadership comes in, they change the priorities,
Speaker 3: and let's be honest, a lot of people leave, but
Speaker 3: those who stay just get let along by the nose,
Speaker 3: you know, that position, That sort of shepherding role is
Speaker 3: a huge vector of this. And what you also see
Speaker 3: is that and I don't normally speak in these terms,
Speaker 3: but it's it's quite accurate, is that so many clergy
Speaker 3: are incredibly feminized that they view their main role as
Speaker 3: peacekeepers and consensus builders. Right, don't rock the boat, go
Speaker 3: along to get along, make sure that everyone is feeling
Speaker 3: welcome and happy. And look, you know, I think that
Speaker 3: there is an equal trap in you know, kind of
Speaker 3: looking for controversy, right, seeking out you know, media attention
Speaker 3: in the like. But it's so frustrating when you basically
Speaker 3: see that you're not actually these so many of these
Speaker 3: guys aren't actually leading anything. You know, they are merely
Speaker 3: you know, viewing their entire role as sort of managing
Speaker 3: good feelings, you know, maintaining a hug box instead of
Speaker 3: actually standing for anything at all.
Speaker 4: Yeah, in a lot of ways, you could just hire
Speaker 4: Jams or some other you know, mediation company to send
Speaker 4: out a representative and run your Bible study, because what
Speaker 4: they end up doing is is uh, just being the
Speaker 4: formal arbitrage between disparate I feel statements from women in
Speaker 4: and you know kind of soft men in the pews
Speaker 4: during Sunday school, and you know, expositional preaching where where
Speaker 4: we're dedicated to h or sorry, expository preaching where we're
Speaker 4: gonna make sure that we're sticking with scripture and not
Speaker 4: get caught up in any sort of topical debate, which
Speaker 4: is probably you know, good in most cases, but it
Speaker 4: all so freeze you from any duty to have to
Speaker 4: speak truth into your church on a topical basis relative
Speaker 4: to what's happening out in the outside world. You can
Speaker 4: just rely on, well, we're not going to get into politics.
Speaker 4: I my brother in law had this problem with his
Speaker 4: pastor where you know, he was like, hey, man, this
Speaker 4: Charlie Kirk thing is like a real big deal and
Speaker 4: a lot of people in our community are are you know,
Speaker 4: going through some you know, crises with with their political
Speaker 4: positions and where things are heading in the country, and
Speaker 4: you know, maybe it's time for us to have, you know,
Speaker 4: a discussion about that as a church. And it was like, well,
Speaker 4: you know, we're not we do expository preaching. We're not
Speaker 4: gonna we're not going to touch on the topics of
Speaker 4: the day. So maybe if it comes up organically. But
Speaker 4: you know, I part of the issue, I think is
Speaker 4: that there's a universalizing tendency and you know, we can
Speaker 4: apply it to like Anglo Western civilization as a whole,
Speaker 4: with with our general kind of openness. But the epistles
Speaker 4: are pretty clear, like what the purpose of the church
Speaker 4: is and tell you know, all of all of the
Speaker 4: directives to the church. You know, it's to the church.
Speaker 4: It's not to the church and everybody else. And I
Speaker 4: think there's been a conflation of you know, perhaps some
Speaker 4: financial and career incentives towards like maximalizing your your marketability
Speaker 4: in your local community versus actually serving the members of
Speaker 4: the church. And you know, whether you're baptized and born
Speaker 4: into the Covenant or whatever. You know, you have you
Speaker 4: have church people that are there, and so how much
Speaker 4: effort is put into acquiring new members through what either
Speaker 4: the showmanship of it all or just the the you know,
Speaker 4: the reputation is the pastor it's not going to rock
Speaker 4: the boat, but he's always going to give a fiery sermon.
Speaker 4: You know. It seems like a contrary incentive to like,
Speaker 4: how do we how do we learn who these people
Speaker 4: that are interpews now actually are, where they where they
Speaker 4: live spiritually, and what we need to do to address
Speaker 4: their actual problems.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean that's the that's the thing about
Speaker 3: it is that the deep irony of this is that,
Speaker 3: particularly among young men, there is a desire for something
Speaker 3: transcendent and traditional. Obviously, in grand terms, this isn't a
Speaker 3: large number of people, but we're seeing, you know, particularly
Speaker 3: in Generation Ze, more of that generation and by large margins,
Speaker 3: more men they're staying in or returning to church. And
Speaker 3: you know, I've done a number of episodes on this,
Speaker 3: one provocatively with Cryptos called the Hitler Youth comes back
Speaker 3: to Church. And look that article I mentioned earlier after
Speaker 3: it was a podcast with h oh, shoot Truman, excuse me, look,
Speaker 3: is it about Tucker Carlson kind of, But what it
Speaker 3: is really about is these gross, yucky young men that
Speaker 3: we don't want. And it's funny because again, you know,
Speaker 3: after having been forced to sit through twenty years of
Speaker 3: talks about tolerance, about you know, welcoming others who are
Speaker 3: not like yourself, all couched in terms of creating something universal,
Speaker 3: creating something that someone from anywhere can appreciate and approach. Well,
Speaker 3: again we see that same thing that, oh, well that
Speaker 3: was only for clients of power, and well it turns
Speaker 3: out that you know, if you're outside of that, you
Speaker 3: can come. But if you're if you speak up too much,
Speaker 3: if you have strong opinions, well then you're a problem.
Speaker 3: Then you need to you know, sit down, shut up,
Speaker 3: and stop being a gross in cell. And again, it's
Speaker 3: so frustrating as someone who grew up in this world,
Speaker 3: because I've heard dozens, dozens and dozens of people you know,
Speaker 3: sort of bemoan like, oh, if we could just get
Speaker 3: the young people back, if we could just get you know,
Speaker 3: young men here. Why is everything at this church run
Speaker 3: by you know, old guys and women? And then the
Speaker 3: moment you have guys show up, it's like, oh no, no, no.
Speaker 4: Not like that.
Speaker 3: That's not what we want. They need to stop being
Speaker 3: like X, Y and Z. It's sort of this monkey's
Speaker 3: paw thing if you see what I'm getting at Paka
Speaker 3: for sure.
Speaker 4: It's you know, I think part of the problem is
Speaker 4: from my perspective. And I've told I've had this conversation
Speaker 4: with pastors before, but it's like your vision of reality,
Speaker 4: like we can we agree on ninety nine point nine
Speaker 4: nine nine percent of close handed doctrines. You know what
Speaker 4: is required for salvation and living a good Christian life. Great,
Speaker 4: but your vision of reality does not comport. It doesn't
Speaker 4: map onto anything that I've actually experienced, right you have.
Speaker 4: It's like but the Truman thing, it's like, you know,
Speaker 4: I do you really think Candae is gonna be carry
Speaker 4: antiki torches and and you know in the Seaville thing
Speaker 4: like no, uh, she's not going to be probably feel
Speaker 4: all that welcome there. So your vision and also man
Speaker 4: like I I if you describe these people as you
Speaker 4: know outright, uh you know, white nationalists.
Speaker 3: Uh, you know, I don't mean to be too rude
Speaker 3: to Candice, but she does like he. She is black,
Speaker 3: I could hazard to guess that she is not a
Speaker 3: white supremacist. I mean, you know, I don't pretend to
Speaker 3: know her. But of course, right it's in kohy But
Speaker 3: sorry I interrupted you.
Speaker 4: No, So it's you know, it's there's ample examples, whether
Speaker 4: it's on on the gay question or race questions, like
Speaker 4: so many things that they they truly believe.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 4: You know this this universal tabula rasa uh imposed on
Speaker 4: us by Christian doctrine, it just doesn't map. And if
Speaker 4: you if you have any pattern recognition at all as
Speaker 4: a young man, and then and start saying asking questions
Speaker 4: that are inconvenient for their and I hate this word,
Speaker 4: but you know, their their worldview that they're existing under.
Speaker 4: You are viewed, and you know, you're otherised, You're you're castigated,
Speaker 4: and ultimately you're probably cast out either by formal mechanisms
Speaker 4: of discipline because you know, you asking these questions or
Speaker 4: having these opinions on politics is impugning the peace and
Speaker 4: purity of the church. Or they you know, they they
Speaker 4: work behind the scenes, you know, like with with the
Speaker 4: women and the other schemers in the church to make
Speaker 4: sure that you are socially ostracized to the point where
Speaker 4: you know, you have to leave. At least that's that's
Speaker 4: my experience. And so there isn't you know, to your point,
Speaker 4: there's a there's a broad ecumenical consensus that that we
Speaker 4: need to really be unified in the core doctrines, but
Speaker 4: still remain open to to people, especially from the left,
Speaker 4: who might have a different, different point of view. But
Speaker 4: if God forbid, you say, like you know me, maybe
Speaker 4: there's is it a little bit of blood and soil,
Speaker 4: like just a little bit. No, you're you're out. You
Speaker 4: can't can't be in a leadership position anymore. And so,
Speaker 4: you know, I think they're solutions, but it's it's it's intense.
Speaker 3: Well, and there are two things there, which is, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't pretend to be a biblical scholar, but I
Speaker 3: am pretty sure the scriptures have more to say about
Speaker 3: women and homos than they do about young men being
Speaker 3: a little bit edgy on the internet. You know, I
Speaker 3: get it. You know, there's a lot about you know,
Speaker 3: temperate speech and the like. But it's pretty clear right
Speaker 3: that this is not coming from a real doctrinal concern.
Speaker 3: It's the kind of social dynamics we spoke about earlier.
Speaker 3: That is the source of this, and so much of
Speaker 3: the reasoning is post talk. Well's I feel this, so
Speaker 3: I will come up with reason right to justify it.
Speaker 3: And like everything else, man, I think that it's a
Speaker 3: very short sighted reaction because you can't just get rid
Speaker 3: of everyone. You know, they don't just go away the
Speaker 3: moment you've said you were not welcome here. You know,
Speaker 3: we have multiple examples of that, and seemingly, I think
Speaker 3: the desire, and I understand this from especially older folks,
Speaker 3: is to go back to normal, right, Why can't things
Speaker 3: be like how they were before? And look, I understand
Speaker 3: it was probably much more pleasant, but the material conditions
Speaker 3: have changed. Culture has changed on both the broad right
Speaker 3: and the broad left. It's not just simply going to
Speaker 3: turn back to how it was in a previous era.
Speaker 3: I haven't read a ton of Aaron Wren, but you
Speaker 3: know his idea that we are going through a cultural
Speaker 3: change from a time where you know, being broadly Christian
Speaker 3: was sort of required to be a member of polite
Speaker 3: society through sort of a neutral culture where it wasn't
Speaker 3: really a detriment to one where there's a more hostile
Speaker 3: footing towards faith. I think that that analysis is spot on.
Speaker 3: And I mean, look like we're in kind of a
Speaker 3: reprieve now, but you certainly saw you know, the Biden
Speaker 3: FBI going after you know, TLM guys in Richmond not
Speaker 3: too far away from me. That was not an isolated incident.
Speaker 3: I mean, just look at the way that even moderate
Speaker 3: figures like Amy Cony Barrett right when she was when
Speaker 3: she was being confirmed or treated. It's like that level
Speaker 3: of cultural apathy or cultural support, depending on how old
Speaker 3: the person in question is that they were able to
Speaker 3: count on earlier in their life is gone. Those same
Speaker 3: forces are directly were indirectly creating all of these angry
Speaker 3: young men that you hate. And yeah, well if those
Speaker 3: trends don't change, then this problem isn't going to change,
Speaker 3: not simply something you can hope out of existence.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's so I have two kind of like
Speaker 4: channels of empathy, right, Like I feel for the guys
Speaker 4: who are encountering this for the first time. They want
Speaker 4: to return the church, they want to take their faith seriously.
Speaker 4: They but they you know, they they're they're kind of
Speaker 4: hitting this wall of of you know, this evangelical culture
Speaker 4: that's been developed since the sixties. And so like my
Speaker 4: heart is fully with those guys and you know whatever.
Speaker 4: But I also have like a little bit of empathy
Speaker 4: for the pastors too, in a perverse kind of like
Speaker 4: you know, self defeating way, because I I was the
Speaker 4: guy that was the tree shaker, right, Like, I'm going
Speaker 4: to come in and I'm going to say something that
Speaker 4: is intentionally offensive to you just to kind of shake
Speaker 4: your brain loose because I don't think you're capable of
Speaker 4: kind of understanding my perspective on this. And then I'll
Speaker 4: back it down through subsequent conversations and and you know,
Speaker 4: kind of provide the reasonable justifications for for why I
Speaker 4: believe something. But you need to be shaken out of this, uh,
Speaker 4: this kind of cultural frame that you're in, and that
Speaker 4: that approach. I could see on these guys faces like
Speaker 4: they were physically uh hurt. This was this was like
Speaker 4: detrimental to their health, you know, getting cortisol spiked and
Speaker 4: mogged by the by the racistyal paca. But like they
Speaker 4: so you know, they have this this context frame that exists.
Speaker 4: It doesn't map onto the changing realities. Uh. And and
Speaker 4: they're they refuse to update their software. You know, they
Speaker 4: they've been trained by the TV and and by you know,
Speaker 4: the the nice kind soft men at seminary and by
Speaker 4: the applause of women and to update their their frame.
Speaker 4: Uh would is you know, causes physical psychic damage, I think,
Speaker 4: but it needs to happen, because you know, I don't
Speaker 4: I think you're right. I think we are heading into
Speaker 4: from you know new we positive world is way past.
Speaker 4: This neutral world has been in effect for a long time.
Speaker 4: And I think especially you know, given current trends, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, with with the general uh vacating of the
Speaker 4: you know, Protestant Church in America, well, I mean all
Speaker 4: churches in America. Uh, you know, the the demographic realities
Speaker 4: on the ground, like they're going to need to get
Speaker 4: comfortable with the idea that we were firmly in are
Speaker 4: heading towards the negative world. Uh, and their their practice
Speaker 4: is just not going to work anymore.
Speaker 3: Well again, and I say this with a little bit
Speaker 3: of glee, but I don't really mean it. There's a
Speaker 3: part of me that looks at you know, all of
Speaker 3: this kind of moral grandstanding, you know, the speaking up
Speaker 3: against these these grave evils in the world, casting yourself
Speaker 3: as you know, brave revolutionaries. And there's a part of
Speaker 3: me that's like the funny thing is, you're going to
Speaker 3: get it one way or another, right, You're eventually going
Speaker 3: to see that, and who knows if it'll ever actually happen,
Speaker 3: if that realization will ever hit. But there's a part
Speaker 3: of it where it's like you're almost he were, ironically
Speaker 3: enough creating the situation that will actually lead to that
Speaker 3: eventuality of you having to face persecution, and look like, okay,
Speaker 3: I get it. You know, particularly in the evangelical world,
Speaker 3: there's been a lot of kind of cartoonish commentary about
Speaker 3: you know, persecution in the US. You know, I mean
Speaker 3: just look at you know, a lot of the kind
Speaker 3: of extreme stuff that came out of the eighties. But uh,
Speaker 3: you know, I even think about the aftermath of the
Speaker 3: road decision where you know, even in my kind of sleepy,
Speaker 3: little conservative small town, you know, my church cars got
Speaker 3: their tires slashed. You know, there's there's vandalism, the local
Speaker 3: pregnancy center got fire bombed again, even in a small
Speaker 3: little area, and you're like, okay, I get it. That
Speaker 3: was kind of a high water mark of rage. But
Speaker 3: if you think that's going to stop, you know, you
Speaker 3: think that's just going to end. No one was punished
Speaker 3: for it, so you think the conclusion is, Okay, I
Speaker 3: got it out of my system. I mean I try
Speaker 3: not to be, you know, too paranoid about these sort
Speaker 3: of things. But like you look at the the attacks
Speaker 3: from you know currently, you know, obviously like the state,
Speaker 3: depending on who's in power, the minions of the state,
Speaker 3: and then even right the kind of relative frequency of
Speaker 3: these sort of like deranged church shootings, and it's like, hey, guys,
Speaker 3: you can't bank on your security literal or you know,
Speaker 3: legal like that is going to happen. And so when
Speaker 3: you see someone sort of playing these sort of like
Speaker 3: Namby Pamby games trying to you know, hold on to
Speaker 3: fleeting respectability, I sort of want to sit down and
Speaker 3: shake these people, like, do you not understand like what
Speaker 3: the stakes are here? Like they're going to hate you
Speaker 3: no matter what. You can't compromise only a little bit.
Speaker 3: The only way they will like you is if you've
Speaker 3: become you know, one of those sort of rage bait
Speaker 3: churches you see on X right, the lesbian, short haired
Speaker 3: preacher with you know, the rainbow stole and the acoustic
Speaker 3: guitar singing to an octogenarian congregation of four like that
Speaker 3: is the only way they will like you. That is
Speaker 3: the only way you can succeed. And if you look
Speaker 3: at that and you're like, okay, well I don't want that, Okay,
Speaker 3: fair enough, then stop compromising and realize they're going to
Speaker 3: call you names. Anything other than that to them is racist, fascist, whatever.
Speaker 3: There's no real middle ground there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the ethos of this like apologetic attitude towards
Speaker 4: towards our history, right, you know, and with a mind
Speaker 4: towards placating I guess more feminine and kind of overall
Speaker 4: just gay desire to be everyone to everybody. And you
Speaker 4: know if we just if we say it in the
Speaker 4: right way, everyone will you know, we'll see our side
Speaker 4: and come to Christ and participate fully in the church.
Speaker 4: It's like, no, that's never It hasn't worked anywhere in history.
Speaker 4: Like a lot of Christians were actually converted by the sword,
Speaker 4: or at least the sword carving the conditions for society
Speaker 4: that allowed Christianity to flourish, and you know, to maintain
Speaker 4: those societies costs a lot of you know, a lot
Speaker 4: of blood, sweat and tears, and it's not just gonna
Speaker 4: be like, oh well, our live stream now has has
Speaker 4: has new lighting so the pastor looks better on Facebook
Speaker 4: or YouTube. Like, No, you're gonna need guys like me.
Speaker 4: You know you're gonna need guys like Jay and the
Speaker 4: guys that we're talking to. You know, you need us eventually,
Speaker 4: and I hope you realize it sooner than later.
Speaker 3: Well, dude, this has been a fascinating conversation, both about
Speaker 3: al pacas and not. I think I'm probably just gonna
Speaker 3: call this like nothing but al pacas, uh, just to
Speaker 3: throw them for a loop.
Speaker 4: But dude, the worst financial decision ever made.
Speaker 3: Well, dude, where can people find you? Obviously you have
Speaker 3: a Twitter and then a substack. Is there anything else
Speaker 3: you put out on the internet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so my I'm on x it's data alpaca or
Speaker 4: a substack. It's Papa apaka dot substack dot com. Uh,
Speaker 4: don't look for regular content on any place because it's
Speaker 4: it comes when it comes. Genius takes time, people. But
Speaker 4: now that's that's it for now. Sometimes I chuck up
Speaker 4: a live stream with a couple of friends and you know,
Speaker 4: we bs about the day. But I really appreciate this day.
Speaker 4: It's been been a lot of fun talking to you.
Speaker 4: Have been a big fan of yours for for a
Speaker 4: long time, and uh, I hope the podcast keeps going strong. Buddy.
Speaker 3: Well thanks man I, I genuinely appreciate that. Like I said,
Speaker 3: be sure to check out the substack and the Twitter.
Speaker 3: Everyone at home, keep your head up. I can't last forever.
Speaker 3: Good night.
Speaker 2: But what what what what? What? What's that?
Speaker 4: Gay gar