WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:01.159 Judy was boring. 2 00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:01.720 Hello. 3 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:06.320 Then Judy discovered chumpacasino dot com. It's my little escape. 4 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.080 Now Judy's the life of the party. Oh baby mama 5 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.880 is bringing home the bacon. WHOA, Take it easy, Judy, 6 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.720 Jump the chumba life is for everybody. So go to 7 00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:19.440 chumpacasino dot com and play over one hundred casino style games. 8 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:21.920 Join today and play for free for your chance to 9 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:27.399 redeem some serious prices. Jump chumpacasino dot com. No PA's necessary, boid. 10 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:29.239 We're prohibited by eighteen plus terms and conditioned to ply 11 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.399 see web secret details. With Lucky Land Slots, you can 12 00:00:32.439 --> 00:00:34.759 get lucky just about anywhere. 13 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:37.880 Really, beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen 14 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:38.719 the bride and groom? 15 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:40.880 Sorry? Sorry, we're here. 16 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:42.920 We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost 17 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:43.479 track of time. 18 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:47.039 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 19 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:48.240 quicker than a guess registered. 20 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.719 But in that case, I pronounce you lucky. Play for 21 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:55.200 free at Lucky Landslots dot com. Daily bonuses are waiting. 22 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:58.079 No purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by lack eighteen plus 23 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:00.679 terms and conditions APPLA see web secrety. 24 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:07.120 Else Love host Radio. 25 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:16.680 You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking 26 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:19.840 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 27 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:27.159 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 28 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.879 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:35.519 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 30 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:49.079 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This is your 31 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:51.840 host Stan Zupanski for the program True Murder, The most 32 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:54.760 Shocking Killers in True crime History and the authors that 33 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:58.519 have written about them. On August twenty sixth, nineteen ninety seven, 34 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:02.359 the half naked body of prostitute Heather Hernandez twenty was 35 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:05.599 found in an empty lot in Spokane, Washington. The same day, 36 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:09.840 the decomposed corpse of prostitute Jennifer Joseph sixteen was discovered 37 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:12.960 in an alfalfa field. Both women been shot in the head. 38 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:15.599 The day after Christmas, four more women were found with 39 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:18.800 plastic bags tied over their heads, the gruesome signature of 40 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:21.240 a killer who had sexually violated each one of them 41 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.159 after they had died, and then there were more victims. 42 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:27.479 When the killer is finally arrested, it turns out to 43 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:30.639 be a devoted husband a father of five, a National 44 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:34.639 Guard helicopter pilot, and a desert storm veteran. Not since 45 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:37.080 the Green River Killer had the Pacific Northwest ben so 46 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:40.520 terrified by so Savage, A serial killer. Robert Lee J. 47 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:45.199 Yates Junior confesses the fifteen murders. My guest is Edgar 48 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:50.039 Award winning author Burl Bear discussing body Count, the terrifying 49 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:53.520 true story of the Spokane serial Killer. Welcome to the program, 50 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:56.560 and thank you for agreeing to this interview this evening. 51 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:57.159 Burl Bear. 52 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.280 Well, it's a pleasure to be here and where you're 53 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:04.479 a future information. The town is called Spokane. 54 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:07.520 Ah, Spokane. Thank you very much for correcting me on that. 55 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:12.159 It looks like it's Spokane, but it's actually pronounced Spokane, 56 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:16.719 a lovely town in eastern Washington. And you know, I 57 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:21.680 almost didn't write the book. There were about thirteen other 58 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:25.719 authors of buying to do the story of Rob the 59 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:29.400 Eighth And actually there was another book called Murder and 60 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:33.159 Spokane by Mark Furman, which I've never met, mister Furman, 61 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:35.800 but allow me to say the book is totally inaccurate. 62 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:38.960 So yeah, I mentioned that. 63 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:41.680 Yeah, that was going to be my first question because 64 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:45.840 I thought it was very intriguing that normally publisher Pinnacle, 65 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:49.560 the true crime imprint of Kensington Press, had approached you 66 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:52.800 than you approach them. And you said it was because 67 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:55.800 you were familiar with the social and cultural makeup the 68 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:59.280 locales and your personal interaction with one or more of 69 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:02.639 the principal care character central to the story. And yet 70 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:04.599 you were hesitant. And yet you said you were hesitant 71 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:06.919 to write this book. Now, why are you hesitant to 72 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:10.280 write this book and explain the social and cultural makeup 73 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.240 of the area in which this incredible story takes place. 74 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:18.560 Well, his very first victims. It turns out we're actually 75 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:22.360 friends of my family. This goes back to Walla Walla, Washington, 76 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:25.959 which is a sleepy town of about well, officially twenty 77 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.120 five thousand, it's actually more than that. It's in the 78 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:32.319 southeastern Washington Tip and Patrick Oliver twenty one and Susan 79 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:35.879 Savage twenty two grew up together in Walla Walla, Washington. 80 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:38.879 They've been friends in childhood. They were both well known 81 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:42.600 people in the community, and the Oliver family and my 82 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.879 family knew each other, and it's a close knit town. 83 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:51.360 And back in seventy five, on July thirteenth, they went 84 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:53.560 out for picnics, and they'd be home from time for 85 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:57.199 in time for dinner, and they didn't come back. Their 86 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:00.639 bodies were found in a recreational area ten east of 87 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.959 Walla Walla, in an area called Mill Creek, near a 88 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:07.639 place called the wickersham Bridge. It was a favorite outing 89 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:12.600 spot for the Olivers. They were both found murdered, their 90 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.959 bodies under an old tire and an old sleeping bag. 91 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:21.800 The murder was never found. It wasn't until years later, 92 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:25.240 twenty five thirty years later when Yeates confessed that that 93 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:28.639 murder was cleared up as well. They were friends of 94 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:32.920 my family. In fact, his brother, years later, long before 95 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:36.800 the Spokane serial killer, became well known as a frequent 96 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:39.920 guest in my home, and so there was a connection there. 97 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:45.680 And then one of the murder victims, Darla, who is 98 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:49.319 mentioned in her boyfriend Arthur. Arthur and I became friends 99 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:53.319 in Seattle when he was managing an apartment building. He 100 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.319 moved back to Spokane, and I had friends and relatives 101 00:05:56.360 --> 00:05:59.800 in Spokane. My family went there for Bloomsday. My son 102 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.600 in the Bloomsday marathon race, and on that day I 103 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:09.480 stopped by to visit Arthur and his then current girlfriend, Darla, 104 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:14.920 dropped by a very attractive young lady wearing very short 105 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:22.199 cutoff jeans and obviously no enter pants, and she perceeded 106 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:25.399 it proceeded to relate the fact that she just robbed 107 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:29.439 somebody of six hundred dollars. I said, Darla, what are 108 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:34.720 you talking about? Turns out dollar Darla was almost Freudian 109 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:35.639 slip their dollar in. 110 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:36.079 Dara. 111 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.360 She was what we call in the polite vernacular, a 112 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:45.639 twenty dollars horp. She worked the streets, but she happened 113 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:50.000 to meet a very polite gentleman, traveling salesman who offered 114 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:53.439 her six hundred dollars to spend the weekend with him 115 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:56.959 in the finest hotel in Spokane. And he would do that, 116 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.439 I believe, twice a month, regular as clockwork. She would 117 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.160 be safe, she'd be well fed, she'd be with a 118 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:07.519 safe person, and like many people, that's lifestyle. Unable to 119 00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:10.240 look at the big picture, she took the first six 120 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:14.079 hundred dollars and ran and I said to her, Darla, 121 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:16.519 let me give you a piece of advice. This is 122 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.240 how women in your line of work get disfigured or 123 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:24.399 at worst killed, because men who are doing that are 124 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.480 very emotionally sensitive. You may never remember him, but I 125 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:32.959 guarantee you he will never forget you. And you do 126 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:35.879 that to the wrong person, you're going to wind up dead. 127 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:40.959 The next time I saw Darla, it was photographs of 128 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.519 her dead, decomposed body at the dumb site where she 129 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:49.439 was murdered and left by Robert Lee Yates. 130 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:54.480 Well, incredible, incredible connection. I had no idea. I knew 131 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:56.600 you're from the area, but this is amazing. 132 00:07:57.120 --> 00:07:59.959 I lived in the same city with him, in Walla, Walla. 133 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:04.519 My daughter went to the same school with him. I 134 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:08.720 knew two of his victims I had met personally. Another 135 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:11.279 one was a graduate of my same high school, although 136 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:15.319 much older than I. So I was familiar with not 137 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:19.759 only the cities, but the people. And Arthur made his 138 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:25.079 sole rest in pace. He died of a stroke, a 139 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:28.560 heart attack or whatever. He helped me with. Actually, the 140 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:30.680 writing of the book put me in touch with a 141 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.879 lot of the people I interviewed, and he gave me 142 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:36.879 an extensive interviews for the book about Darla. He actually 143 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:39.840 saw Yates come and pick her up on their final date. 144 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:44.879 Her body was found wearing his Mickey Mouse sweatshirt that 145 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:48.120 he had lent her that day, so I knew these people. 146 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:53.720 And it was because I knew I knew the people 147 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:57.120 I had interacted that despite their other authors who wanted 148 00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:00.480 to do the book, the public said, hey, you're this is. 149 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:05.000 The guy right right now. What was the what was 150 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:07.279 the community like you say, it's a little sleepy little place, 151 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:12.200 and what was the what is Spokane like? 152 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:18.240 And because is a bigger city than Walla Walla lle 153 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.000 he was living and he originally wasn't from Walla wall 154 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:24.279 He was originally from I believe Oak Harbor, which is 155 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:27.679 not too far from Uncle Teo, where I was also 156 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:29.919 living at the time. By side the contract to write 157 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:35.679 the book, he was working in Walla Walla, Washington, ironically 158 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:40.039 as a prison guard correctional officer. In fact, in the book, 159 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:44.679 there was a photograph of Robert Lee Yates taken his 160 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:48.399 employee photo. They take the employee photo and the convict 161 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.759 photos in the same place, just like the booking photosh 162 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:53.679 There's two photos of him in the book. One is 163 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:57.480 his employee photo from the nineteen seventies when he was 164 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:00.120 there was a correctional officer, and then the photo of 165 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:06.000 him as a prisoner in the nineteen nineties after he 166 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:10.759 was you know, founding and confessed, so he wound up 167 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:12.080 right back where he was before. 168 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:17.639 Ironic. Let's go back you do early on in the book, 169 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:21.039 go back to Robert Yates, his life, his early life 170 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:25.279 growing up. What were his parents like? Obviously everybody wants 171 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:28.000 to know what the upbringing in the life so they 172 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.000 can either draw some conclusions from that or not. But 173 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:33.039 tell us about his early life growing up. 174 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.399 Okay, Now, he actually came from actually a wonderful family. 175 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:41.120 He had great parents, and you know a lot of 176 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:45.480 people don't see pog can I can I blame myself? 177 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:48.639 Was I a bad father? One on one thing and 178 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.159 another In the hometown of Oaklarver, Washington, they don't call 179 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.120 him Robert Lee as they call him Bobby to differentiate 180 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:59.200 himself from his father. Interestingly enough, in nineteen forty five, 181 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:03.399 his grandmother, wielding a double as the axe, violently ended 182 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:08.279 her husband's life. His viad's father, I have a quoter, 183 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:10.960 says I was there. I heard the murder in the night. 184 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:14.519 He found his father near death and his mother seated 185 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:17.919 in a straight back chair in another room. She's given 186 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:20.600 birth to eleven children, but under the stress of having 187 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:23.960 a husband working away from home, and she simply broke. 188 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.320 She spent seven years in a state mental hospital. According 189 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:33.080 to h Now, according to those who new Robert HS Junior, 190 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:36.120 the convicted Spokane serial killer, this is a kid who 191 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:40.480 was never in trouble. He was always practicing his upbringing. 192 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:45.919 It was a good one. His upbringing was idyllic, healthy, moral, exemplary. 193 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:50.120 He was, as far as everyone knew, he was nothing 194 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:54.480 but a good kid. He you know, I mean, well, 195 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:56.360 what do you do in the Olympic Mountains, by the 196 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:02.080 Pacific Ocean, back padding, hunting, dirt back riding, fishing, wholesome 197 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:04.600 activities of their other rule not the exception for a 198 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:08.279 life on Winby Island. His father was an elder in 199 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:11.399 the Seventh day Adventist Church. It was a tiny congregation, 200 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:14.919 less than one hundred people. This is a close knit family, 201 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:20.679 good people. You know, nothing at all that would give 202 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:25.279 you any indication that this kid had something wrong with him. 203 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.759 You don't get any indication until the time of his 204 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:32.679 first marriage. He was married twice. 205 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:36.200 Now before that you can talk about a little bit 206 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:38.559 about his military career, because I ended up telling talking 207 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:41.799 about him being a National Guard helicopter pilot and serving 208 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.639 in desert storm. When did this all occur? Did this 209 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:46.159 occur after gives. 210 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:54.000 After the first murder. The first murder was in Walla Walla, Washington. 211 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.720 It was after that that he goes into the service. 212 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.919 How old is he when he does that, brol Oh boy, 213 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:05.480 I'd have to look up the age, but the young man. 214 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:08.200 At the age of twenty is what his first marriage. 215 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:11.639 She married as Shirley Nylander. They moved to college place 216 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:15.759 where he enrolled in Swallow Wallah College, which is college 217 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:17.799 places like a suburb of Walla wall It's the Seventh 218 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:24.279 Day Adventist School. Eighteen months after the marriage, she moved out, 219 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:26.480 went home and asked for a divorce. He didn't give 220 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:31.960 her an argument. Seventy four, he gets married to Lynda Brewer, 221 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:35.279 who is a student at Walla Walla Community College. But 222 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:39.440 his seventy four marriage to Linda was illegal and annulled 223 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.879 because his divorce and his first wife wasn't final. Six 224 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:50.360 months after the invalid ceremony, they did get get married. 225 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:53.960 So but he went into the service. And you know, 226 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:59.679 there is a suspicion that many unsolved murders in Germany, 227 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:01.840 where he was stationed for a while. He may have 228 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:06.279 been associated with that. There's nothing to really you know, 229 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:07.720 back that up. 230 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.320 Right now. So is there any indication from did you 231 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:15.600 have a chance to speak to his first wife at all? 232 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.200 Was there any information? Well, there was. 233 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:21.080 He One of the problems with that is that when 234 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:25.279 he was there in college place, there was this slight 235 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:30.039 problem that he was running out the apartment dex store. 236 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:32.919 There was an apartment next door, and he drilled a 237 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:38.000 hole in the wall to watch his neighbors have sex. Now, 238 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:41.320 everyone needs a hobby, but she is not usually considered 239 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:47.200 socially appropriate. So that was a bit of a problem. 240 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:49.360 But like I say, he went off he was in 241 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.080 the service. Then they only trouble he got in there 242 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.559 was having done a little shooting from the helicopter to 243 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.080 shoot a buffalo or whatever that they cooked up for dinner, 244 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.200 which was an authorized use of military equipment. But as 245 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.080 far as his military record know, he was I mean 246 00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:09.320 this guy. I mean even after arrested he said, this 247 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.159 guy's going to be a model prisoner in those will 248 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:14.879 follow orders. He was a hard working guy. Nothing lazy 249 00:15:14.919 --> 00:15:17.200 about this man. He was not afraid of hard work. 250 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:20.679 Had all I mean the work he was doing in 251 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:25.440 Spokane was very difficult, demanding work. And he I can 252 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.399 say he's had five kids who loved him, and a 253 00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:29.559 wife who was putting up with all sorts of nonsense. 254 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.080 He was going through a lot of money. He lied 255 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.039 and broke down and cried and told her he had 256 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:39.519 a gambling problem, which wasn't wasn't the case. What his 257 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:44.320 addiction was was prostitutes and illegal stimulants. 258 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:49.519 Now you make a point of talking about the area 259 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:53.799 where the serial killer was hunting, and this is East 260 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:56.919 Sprague if I'm not Sprague, yes, and so this is 261 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.279 a strip where the prostitutes, the most vulnerable prostitute you 262 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:01.960 may not get out of a phone book at an 263 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:03.840 escort service. These ones are on the street. 264 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:08.320 With Lucky Landslots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 265 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.480 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen 266 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:12.799 the bride and broom? 267 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:14.440 Sorry? Sorry, we're here. 268 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:16.519 We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost 269 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:17.039 track of time. 270 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:20.600 No Lucky land casino with cash prizes that add up 271 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:21.840 quicker than a guess registered. 272 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:25.559 In that case, I pronounce you lucky, thanks for free. 273 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:29.039 At Lucky Landslots dot com daily bonuses are waiting. No 274 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:31.600 purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by lock eight team plus 275 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:34.440 terms and conditions applying. See website for details. 276 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:36.080 Flying their trade. Right. 277 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:38.879 If you read the book, and I and I and 278 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.000 people have been reading it, it was re released Againjie, 279 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.679 I guess last year, which I'm very happy to say 280 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.159 it it's been selling well again. I always like that. 281 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:49.080 That's great, that's great. 282 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:51.879 I had I did a lot of research, and you know, 283 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:57.639 there's there's so many myths and misunderstandings about UH prostitution 284 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:00.679 and prostitution America. I mean, just ask yourself a simple question. 285 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:05.880 If you wanted a rentable sex partner, where's the safest 286 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.960 place to get one? Is where it's legal. You go 287 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.799 to Nevada, you go to Perump, you go the Mustang ranch. 288 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:14.920 You know there's not going to be any problems, You're 289 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:16.440 not going to get a disease, no one's going to 290 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:20.880 rob you, right, and the girls are safe. When it's illegal, 291 00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:25.319 all bets are off. The majority of working girls as 292 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:28.000 they're called working women or working men for that matter, 293 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.880 are not on the street, that is the minority. Most 294 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:35.480 of them also are not on drugs. That's also a myth. 295 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:40.599 The majority of them work privately or they work through services. 296 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:44.480 They're clean. If they were dishonest and rip off artists, 297 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:49.359 they'd be fired. But you have a small segment of 298 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.880 women who for one reason or another, and I really 299 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.599 try to get into business book to show that these 300 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:59.440 are real people with real families, who have had things 301 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:02.279 happen to them that have put them in this situation, 302 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.759 and they're highly vulnerable and one of the real I've 303 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:11.279 got to give a lot of credit to Spokane Police Department, 304 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:17.400 Spokane Homicide Department. They did something brilliant and so admirable. 305 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:21.559 They went out to these women work in the street, 306 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:24.119 and they went out to the pimps, they went out 307 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:30.440 to the drug dealers, and they said, listen, drugs sex, okay, 308 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.640 maybe some of it's misdemeanors, some of its felonies. Murder 309 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:38.759 is an entirely different issue. Entirely, we don't care what 310 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:42.400 you're selling. We don't care what sex you're having. Someone's 311 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:46.920 killing people here, you know, this is all we care about. 312 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:49.200 I don't care what drugs you got in your pocket. 313 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:51.720 I don't care how many hookers you got working for you. 314 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:55.559 We don't want anybody getting killed. Here's my phone number. 315 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:58.240 You can talk to me. I'm not going to arrest you. 316 00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:59.839 When I say I'm not going to wrest you today, 317 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.480 it cont Sento's cop football bad nasenise I'm not going 318 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:04.880 to arrest you today. What they mean is going to 319 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.400 come back tomorrow. But these guys were smart. They knew 320 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:12.599 there was a killer on the loose. They wanted to 321 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:17.880 save lives, and so they built bonds of trust with 322 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:22.200 these working girls and the guys and the dealers. I mean, 323 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:24.400 I mean, you had a strange alliance going on here. 324 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:27.759 You had the police and the prostitutes and the drug 325 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:31.880 dealers working together to try to catch this killer. And 326 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:36.640 this was something that wasn't happening in Pierce County, in 327 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:39.519 the Tacoma area, where this guy was also committing murders. 328 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:42.279 They weren't that far sighted. They didn't They couldn't think 329 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:45.799 out of the box that way. The Spokane, thank god, 330 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:49.359 did where they you know, they were talking to people, 331 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:51.680 they would go right into the drug houses. They don't worry, 332 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:53.720 we're not going to arrest you. We don't care what 333 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.720 you got. We're trying to catch a killer. And that 334 00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:59.319 makes all the difference in the world. The girls knew 335 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:01.920 they could talk to the police, the drug dealers, and 336 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:05.119 they could talk to the police, you know, about this 337 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.440 killer and not have it affect anything else. 338 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:10.759 Yeah, I think it's admirable that you do point that out, 339 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.480 and it's a very admirable effort by the police force 340 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:17.160 to to actually genuinely reach out to those people that 341 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:21.720 might really help them. And that's another question. Go ahead, sorry, no, 342 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:23.160 go ahead, now. 343 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.319 It's good. I mean, these are people that don't want 344 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:27.799 to talk to the police. I mean, if you're if 345 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:31.319 what you do for a living is tragically illegal, the 346 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:34.480 last person you're going to talk to is a police officer, 347 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.119 all right. So they had to gain their trust and say, listen, 348 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:42.279 I don't care. I'm a homicide detective. You know, I 349 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:45.119 might even taking notes on what drugs you're selling. We're 350 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:47.839 trying to catch a killer here. You've got girls work 351 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:49.440 on the street. We want them to come back. We 352 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:51.559 don't want them dead, you know. 353 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:57.680 Right now, getting back to this hunt for this particular person, obviously, 354 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:01.599 when I introduced this story that he ends up confessing 355 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:03.680 the fifteen murders. So we're just at a few here. 356 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:08.359 You talk very much and very highly and it looks 357 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:12.640 like you obviously had good access to the task force 358 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:16.920 itself or the investigation itself. Now, tell us a little 359 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.880 bit about the contact with FBI. What if any help 360 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:24.960 was the profiling that's normally done in a case like this. 361 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:31.079 It wasn't. There wasn't. It was such a mess. I mean, 362 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.000 I felt so sorry for these guys. You have a 363 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:38.960 homicide task force in a city of Spokane. Spokane is 364 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:41.319 it's much bigger than Walla, Walla. It's essentially a small 365 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.880 town of limited resources. They put together a task force 366 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:50.519 of the Spokane Police Department and some representatives from the 367 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:57.000 Washington State Patrol. It's underfunded. Eventually, they did get some 368 00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:01.119 financial reimbursement from I think the federal government, but they're 369 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:06.759 working on a limited budget, limited resources. They become somewhat 370 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:14.440 of a political football. And also you had another gentleman, 371 00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:21.000 a well fairly well known personality who had a radio 372 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:25.839 show in town, who was continually talking about the case, 373 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:29.799 getting the public riled up with a lot of misinformation, 374 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.160 a lot of false leads, picking on the homicide task 375 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:40.000 force and making their life difficult. When I showed up 376 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.880 to do the book and I met with a homicide 377 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:46.759 task force. Usually when I go to meet with the 378 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:51.599 homicide task force which has successfully solved the case, they're 379 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:56.400 very happy to see me, right right, Not in this situation. 380 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:00.839 They're looking at me sideways. A minute I walk into 381 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:06.200 because there had just been a book, the other book 382 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:10.359 that was written by another author called Murder and Spokane 383 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:14.680 was originally written as an indictment of the homicide Task 384 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:18.880 Force for being so lousy and not having solved the case. Well, okay, 385 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:22.519 and just before the book was about to come out, 386 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.079 they solved the case and the author went to them 387 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:28.880 and said, please tell me how you did it, Please 388 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:32.720 give me access for information, and they said, I won't 389 00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:36.079 give you the exact wording, but basically came down to listen, 390 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.680 you're a convicted felon. You've done nothing but make life 391 00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:42.319 difficult for us with the stuff you said on the air, 392 00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:46.079 and you can go do an interesting trick that defies 393 00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:48.200 the laws of nature. We were going to do with you. 394 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:49.079 Yeah, right. 395 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.240 Then I show up and for all they. 396 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:53.759 Know, I'm like him. 397 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:57.880 Sure, And they wanted me even to sign some sort 398 00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:03.079 of an agreement with them that if I did this 399 00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:05.960 wrong or that wrong, I mean it was very very 400 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:11.279 it was. I mean, I had to prove myself to them. 401 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:12.039