WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:47.280 Oh weal ts are hello and welcome to the show. 2 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:51.359 This is the Cult of Conspiracy, and my name is Jonathan, 3 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:55.840 and today we are getting to the long awaited, long 4 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.759 teased conversation about the Cathars. 5 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:01.719 This is gonna be a fun one. Indeed, indeed, there's 6 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:03.920 a lot of uh, there's a lot of things that 7 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:07.840 are surrounding with the Cathart conversation. Historically speaking, right, an 8 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:11.239 entire crusade was waged against them at one point in time, 9 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.239 called upon by Pope Innocent the Third, But it wasn't 10 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:17.040 just him. There was multiple popes that were associated with this, 11 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:19.799 multiple lords of France that had a hand in this. 12 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:24.040 There's Catholic narratives, there's Gnostic narratives. There's a whole backstory 13 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:26.760 to this, and then there's even questions still abounding in 14 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:29.280 our modern day and age about the validity and truth 15 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:31.439 behind all of it. It's gonna be a fun one. 16 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:34.640 Oh yeah, yeah, it's gonna be a great time. And 17 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:38.159 it's it's it's interesting because like you said, I mean, 18 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.480 there are myths every which way about the Cathars. You're 19 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:43.959 talking about damn near a thousand years ago, you know, 20 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:46.280 like it was, uh, it was back in the gap, 21 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:49.760 as they say, But you know, I was curious, you 22 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:52.400 know how many and for those that don't know, the 23 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:56.760 Cathars they were a Gnostic sect, that were if you 24 00:01:56.959 --> 00:02:01.239 if we are to believe you know, the history, if 25 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:05.359 such history still exists, which is what we're gonna get 26 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:08.199 to today, that they were a Gnostic sect. And allegedly, 27 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:11.400 the story goes, the Catholics took them out within crusades 28 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:16.800 and inquisitions, and it was carried out initially by Pope Innocent. 29 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:22.400 He was the first one that initiated the Albagensian crusade, 30 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:27.000 and that well, he called for it in eleven ninety eight, 31 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:31.879 and he carried through with the crusade until twelve sixteen. 32 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:36.240 And then you have your boy Pope Gregory the ninth, 33 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:40.039 who continued the efforts against the Cathars from twelve twenty 34 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:41.319 seven to twelve forty one. 35 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:43.479 And then finally Pope. 36 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:48.080 Urban the Fourth who supported the inquisition against the Cathars 37 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:51.039 from twelve sixty one to twelve sixty four. So a 38 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:55.000 series of at least three popes that were carrying this out. 39 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.360 Now you' if you notice there is a little. 40 00:02:57.159 --> 00:02:59.680 Gap of twenty years in between here which I find 41 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:04.479 pretty interesting because I was finding differing stories as to 42 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:07.719 how many different popes were actually carrying this out, right, 43 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:11.039 and I saw that as many as nine popes carried 44 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:13.199 it out, and then you come over to Duck Duck go, 45 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:16.240 and it says, well, it was only three, right, and 46 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:19.439 so you know, but then again there's this gap right here. 47 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:20.599 But it's interesting. 48 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:23.840 It says Pope Innocent the Third initiated the Albagencia and 49 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.319 Crusade against the Cathars, which lasted from twelve to nine 50 00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:30.039 to twelve twenty nine, leading to the deaths of many Cathars. 51 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:33.719 While he was the primary pope involved, subsequent popes continued 52 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:36.960 the efforts against Catharism, but specific numbers of popes directly 53 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.280 responsible for kings are not clearly defined. So these are 54 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:43.479 the ones that are understood to be the ones that 55 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:44.159 carried it out. 56 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.960 Could have been probably were. 57 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:48.560 A couple of more popes that had a couple more 58 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.599 hands into it. And that's where I thought it was interesting. Why, 59 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:54.439 you know, if they are such a nuisance, it's almost like, 60 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:57.479 you know, we talked about the flat earthers or you know, 61 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:02.639 the nine to eleven deniers of the ja denies whatever. Right, Like, 62 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:05.719 if these people are so innocent and what they believe 63 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:09.280 is so far fetched and so crazy, how were they 64 00:04:09.319 --> 00:04:12.560 able to convince so many people to convert from Catholicism? 65 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.400 And so I was like, that's interesting, let's look into 66 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:19.519 what they believed. Why would anybody convert over to this anyway? 67 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:23.560 Because narcissism was a sect that was allegedly for the 68 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.079 elites of the time, and they were kind of snobby 69 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:29.000 about it. From what I understand, it was usually a 70 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:34.959 secret doctrine that only those who were initiated could really understand. 71 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:36.360 And I was like, all right, let me look a 72 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:39.600 little bit into this gnosissism, right, And for the longest time, 73 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:42.079 I really didn't even touch on gnarscissism because I was 74 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:46.120 trying to distance myself from religion in general, because religion 75 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.759 in general usually carries out such things like this, where 76 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:53.199 you have religious wars and people are killing in religious wars, 77 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:56.560 and I'm like, well, that doesn't sound very religious of you, 78 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:58.959 So why would I look into either one of these things? 79 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.759 Right? But which you have to look into the gnosticism 80 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:05.879 because this is a conspiratorial show, and how many conspiratorial 81 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:10.480 content creators bring up Gnostic texts and Gnostic gospels and 82 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:12.439 how this is a section of history that's kind of 83 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.399 shrouded in mystery and secret schools and all these things. 84 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:21.040 You literally can't separate conspiratorial conversation from forbidden hidden religious 85 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:23.879 text in conversation. The two go hand in hand. In 86 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:25.600 my opinion, I would think so too. 87 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.600 Yeah, I mean, well now I think so because I 88 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:31.600 have gone down so many rabbit holes about the Cathars. 89 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:35.240 I've watched countless documentaries, I've read countless articles on the 90 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.839 whole thing, and I just continue to be fascinated by 91 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.879 all of it, you know, And I'm also fascinated that 92 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:45.839 there's even question about their existence. I'm like, man, if 93 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:48.680 this is really something that was made up, it, I mean, 94 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.360 the information spread like wildfire, and there seems to be 95 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:55.720 shitloads of documentation about something that allegedly never existed. 96 00:05:56.439 --> 00:06:01.160 But the documentation is all from Catholic sources, not entirely, 97 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:02.319 not entirely. 98 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:05.399 No, there's and That's what I've been finding because I 99 00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:09.000 heard you bring that up and I was like, is 100 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:13.160 that true? And the majority of it is, but not 101 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:13.959 the book. 102 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:15.720 Of like the Secret Supper is not written by a 103 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:18.399 Catholic source. That's fair, right, some of their literature is 104 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:20.759 not written by Catholic sources. But as far as the 105 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:23.759 claims that were made, as far as the propaganda pieces, 106 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:26.439 and as far as the what the Catharist believed and 107 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:28.600 why they're so evil in this and this, a lot 108 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:32.000 of that is from secondhand Catholic sources. That's all I 109 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:32.920 was trying to say. 110 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:35.480 Yeah, yeah, for sure, And a lot of times, you know, 111 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:37.600 if you're trying to look for it in a book, 112 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:39.560 this is a lot of other people have been trying 113 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:41.639 to do like a shitload of research on this as well, 114 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:43.279 And if you're trying to look. 115 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:45.319 For it in a book, they are. 116 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:50.120 They're mentioned, but not in great detail, like it is 117 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:53.079 like a fart in the wind that was something that happened, which, 118 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:55.759 to me, in my conspiratorial mind, I'm like, oh, they're 119 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.959 trying to erase this from history, right, either that or 120 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:02.319 or I And that was the thing that really baffled 121 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:04.800 me the most about the idea that they never even existed, 122 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:08.839 because if they never existed, why would you even you know, 123 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:11.040 why would there ever be a claim that there was 124 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:15.240 a genocide or an extermination of people for differing beliefs. 125 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:17.360 You know, you wouldn't think that the Catholics would want 126 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.480 that on their books, just you know, logically speaking, right. 127 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.240 Yes and no, I could understand both sides on this one. Right, 128 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:27.639 you would understand why the Catholics, if the Catholic Church 129 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:30.560 really did wage a genocide, they killed depending on the claim, 130 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:33.160 some say a couple hundred thousand, some say a million. 131 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:37.120 And even still those numbers are quite a claim to make, 132 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:40.759 because we're talking about specifically the Lungadoc region of France, 133 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:44.040 and I don't know what their population density looked like 134 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:47.199 in the twelve hundred's a d here, But you say 135 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:49.319 that a million people were killed from this one region, 136 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:53.319 is that's preposterous. But then I also don't know how 137 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:55.959 strong the claim is to say two hundred thousand people 138 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:58.120 killed in this region did even have a population of 139 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:00.480 that at the time. But even that being said, the 140 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:03.439 Catholics wanting to push it under the rug and kind 141 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:05.360 of forget it as one of the darker chapters of 142 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:08.079 their history, and they don't look fondly upon it. They're 143 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.360 looking more towards the positive future in this In this, okay, 144 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:13.839 I could understand that conversation. But you also got to 145 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.720 keep in mind the great schism that took place and 146 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:20.680 all these Protestant religions came out. Now, these Protestants would 147 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:23.079 point at every single issue that they had with the 148 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:25.319 Catholic Church, and a lot of them would point out 149 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:27.959 the genocide that took place against the Cathars as a 150 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:31.240 point of contention to say, look, you claim you're so pious, 151 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:33.960 yet you murder people who are mining their own business, 152 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:36.879 So what the fuck? Right? So I can understand how 153 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:40.399 even that pointing out the Cathar genocide could be a 154 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:44.600 propaganda piece by Protestant sects of Christianity. Right, But there, 155 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:46.080 I can see it from both angles. 156 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.240 There were multiple, you know, call them sects of Gnostic 157 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.759 belief that were allegedly genocided, you know, like it wasn't 158 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:57.840 just the Cathars. There was three or four at least 159 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:01.399 different groups of Gnostics that were completely taken out. 160 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:04.440 And that's why it was such a shocker when in was. 161 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:07.960 It nineteen forty six, nineteen forty eight, whenever they found 162 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:11.720 the Nagamadi scrolls right like that was a fucking holy shit. 163 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:14.120 I can't believe they preserved this information to I mean, 164 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:16.159 it doesn't matter what you believe about it, it's what 165 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:18.960 they believed of it, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, 166 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:21.360 you might think, oh, it's just heretical. 167 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.000 Stories or whatever. I don't know. 168 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:25.679 I mean I think that everything's kind of worth at 169 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:28.720 least a look into. And so I really started going 170 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.399 into the Nagamadi over the past couple of years, and 171 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.639 I was like, man, this is this is a completely 172 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:38.200 different way of looking at like, you know, biblical history, 173 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:40.480 even pre biblical history and everything. 174 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:41.240 And then of. 175 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:44.000 Course, you know, you look into what was it the 176 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:48.440 Pseudopigrifa and like all the stories of people claiming like 177 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.559 what was the main Enoch right, and many other stories 178 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:54.600 that are in there, and you're like, man, people really 179 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.200 hang their hat on this Enoch stuff. Meanwhile, it's less 180 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:03.480 like it's less I don't know, it's less valid than 181 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:06.399 even the Gnostic stuff, which is crazy. 182 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:08.240 You know, people are so. 183 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:11.039 Crazy about the Nephilom and so crazy about the giants, 184 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.679 and I firmly believe it within my beliefs. Meanwhile, it's 185 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:16.080 like the Bible mentions it like two or three times, 186 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:19.399 but then most people are pulling you know, the giants 187 00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:22.919 and the Nephilom from the Book of Enoch, which confirmed 188 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:28.720 not real, right, I say, within quotations, right, Like they 189 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:31.320 confirm it's. 190 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:32.879 A plagiarism, and it's a known plagiarism. It's the same 191 00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:36.320 thing with the Book of Jasher that was written in 192 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:40.600 the fourteen hundreds, Like that's not an ancient text of 193 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.159 the same time as the Old Testament and all these things. 194 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.279 Same with the Book of Enoch. But they believed it 195 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:47.879 because back then they're going off of the most credible 196 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:50.720 information they have at the time, and we are going 197 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:52.799 off of even more credible information because we're able to 198 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.919 pull for more sources and do actual archaeological studies into things. 199 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:59.840 But that being said, though, it is interesting whenever you 200 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.080 look into the actual construction of the Bible. The Bible 201 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.200 wasn't even put together until the mid three hundreds, right, 202 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:10.240 But a lot of these Gnostics texts are you know, 203 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:14.080 first century and some like sometimes early second right, And so. 204 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:16.960 It there is a little bit of validity. 205 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:19.320 I'm not saying that, you know, just because it's older 206 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:21.320 makes it more valid, but I am saying that, like 207 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:24.919 at least it wasn't like stories off of the already 208 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.559 created Bible now, I know that the Bible is a 209 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:30.639 is an amalgamation of a bunch of different texts and everything, 210 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:32.519 So say what you want about that. I know that 211 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:35.200 there's you know, there's some stories of the Bible that 212 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:38.120 are way older than some other stories of the Bible, 213 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:42.120 which we're actually going to get to today because we're actually, dude, 214 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.440 it is so interesting whenever you look at the like 215 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:50.080 the the construction of the like in the order of 216 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:53.519 which the four main Gospels were created with Matthew, Mark, Luke, 217 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:56.960 and John, and a lot of them say, well, you know, 218 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:01.320 it's just by going off of the information that we have, 219 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.799 a lot of them say that the Book of Mark 220 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:06.679 had to have been written first, Like that's from what 221 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:07.240 I found. 222 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.360 The Book of Mark had to have been written first. 223 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:14.159 And what they say is is that because it's a 224 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:17.480 whole like scholar thing where they try and figure out 225 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:19.799 like how far these things go back, and some people 226 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:21.720 were cemented in their minds as to when they were 227 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:24.200 written and when they were put together and stuff like that. 228 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.600 Some people are like, wait a second, doesn't really check out. 229 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:30.159 Whenever you look at like they're mentioning things that weren't 230 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.440 even created until like after the year one hundred, like 231 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.879 weird things, right, like as if that they're they're talking 232 00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:40.000 on things that you know, it doesn't make sense for 233 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:42.200 the time, and so a lot of people will try 234 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.600 and you know, come up with, well, they came up 235 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.679 with they had to have gotten these stories from a 236 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:51.039 original source, which is a lot of times called the 237 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:56.000 Q source strikingly oddly enough, or the Q actually translates 238 00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:00.639 to source in another language. But anyway, so yeah, I 239 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.120 thought that that was pretty interesting looking at that, because 240 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:06.320 even the oldest gospel, they say that Mark or the 241 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.559 author of Mark had to have gotten it that information 242 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:11.879 off of another source. And that's where you get the 243 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:15.639 idea of a Q source, right, And I don't know, dude. 244 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:18.000 And then you look at the Book of Mark and 245 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:20.519 when was it actually written. Some people say seventy a 246 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:23.159 d some people say, you know, as late as one 247 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:25.919 hundred and ten AD, which is pretty interesting. 248 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:29.440 So all right, talking about the gospels themselves, and you're 249 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.559 right that the Bible as we know it was compiled 250 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:36.519 in and around the three hundreds AD from Constantine, right. 251 00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:39.320 So the reason why that was was because there were 252 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:43.519 so many gospels quote unquote that were circulating during the 253 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.759 first and second centuries AD, and a lot of those 254 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:50.720 were Gnostics. So they realize there's all these books floating 255 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:53.519 around that are referencing this dude named Jesus, and if 256 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.639 Christianity is going to become the state religion of Rome, 257 00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.600 we need to know what is christian and what is 258 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:02.360 like you would say, stud of Pigrifa. So I need 259 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:05.320 somebody to bring me every single scroll that's got anything 260 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:08.240 to do with Jesus, and we're going to decipher to 261 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:10.879 see which ones do hold water and which ones are 262 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.840 Obviously fanfic, that was what a lot of these councils 263 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.840 and synods were about for the first few centuries of Christianity. 264 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:20.559 Now that being said, the Book of Mark written, Yeah, 265 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:23.320 let's argue if it was seventy a d. Or after 266 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:27.519 one hundred a d. Mark himself wrote this down. But 267 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:30.240 whenever he had it and he gave it to one 268 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:33.080 of his followers, a new convert into Christendom or what 269 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.840 at that time was called the Way, it wasn't called Christianity, 270 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.279 it was just called the way. They took it and 271 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:42.080 they wrote it down to further, you know, preserve it right. 272 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:43.879 A lot of these gospels are written in that way, 273 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:46.840 so while it wasn't actually written from the hand of Mark. 274 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.440 The first one that's in the uh, what is it, 275 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:54.080 the Codex Sinaticusts, which is arguably the first compiled Bible 276 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:55.440 that there is in existence. 277 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:58.440 There's now all different variations of it too. It wasn't 278 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:02.120 just the Codex Sinaticus. Another interesting one to look into 279 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:04.559 is the Codex Vaticanus. 280 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:07.679 Yeah, yeah, so, which it's well, that came about after, 281 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:09.080 and that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that the 282 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:12.000 Codex an Atticus holds more or less validity to these 283 00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:15.480 early codices. What I'm saying is that that is arguably 284 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:19.080 one of the first complete compilations of the Bible as 285 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:22.240 we would recognize it today, that was ever put together, right, But. 286 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.399 They're being said very slim. It didn't have the amount 287 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:25.840 of books that the Bible has today. 288 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:30.200 No, no, it doesn't. But that being said, the Gnostics 289 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:34.879 were kind of taking some Old Testament things and blending 290 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:36.919 it with some of the teachings of Jesus. And now 291 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:40.080 when you look at what the Gnostics and therefore the 292 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:44.120 Cathars believed, it's obvious to see why the Catholic Church 293 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.440 would feel some type of way about this, because while 294 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:49.320 the Protestants may believe something different than the Catholics, no 295 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:55.480 Protestant is arguing if Jesus actually physically existed. No Protestant 296 00:15:54.919 --> 00:16:00.240 is arguing a dualistic universal nature. Where they're is an 297 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.320 inherent good that is spiritual and inherit bad that it's physical, 298 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.200 So everything on this earth is evil. There's layers upon 299 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:09.159 layers to decipher with this. But that is why some 300 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:13.240 would speculate that while they led a crusade against Gnostics 301 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:16.279 and Cathars and Waldians, they didn't lead a crusade against 302 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:19.200 the Protestants, because at least the Protestants were speaking about 303 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:21.799 some kind of biblical truth, right right. 304 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.759 And there was also the I believe they were called 305 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:25.360 the Polytians as well. 306 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:26.919 I got an article put up on them too. 307 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:29.720 Yeah, yeah, which I'm you know, say what you want. 308 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:31.879 I'm I'm not the biggest fan of Paul personally. That's 309 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:33.159 why I don't even like to mention it. 310 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:36.360 But but I still would love to know your reasons 311 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:38.480 for that. But that's not for today. Not today. 312 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.879 Yeah, yeah, that's that's an entirely different rabbit hole. And 313 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:44.240 by the way, I do want to say something just 314 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:46.519 you know, I'm just gonna stop sharing the screen here 315 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:47.600 for a second because I want to. 316 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:50.120 Get us out in the open. I am. 317 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:53.039 I know some people think that like I just got 318 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:56.679 a hard on for religion and Christianity in general, and 319 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.679 that's really not the case. I am an individual that 320 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:04.039 is searching for truth. I'm a natural born truth seeker. 321 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:07.119 That's what I'm trying to go after. I'm not a follower. 322 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:09.559 I don't believe what other people tell me. If I did, 323 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:12.599 I wouldn't be into conspiracies having a mind for my own, okay. 324 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:15.440 And one thing that I've found is is through my 325 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.200 journey of trying to discover what the absolute truth about 326 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:22.680 this reality is is that there are many, many, many 327 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.920 different religions out there, many different philosophies out there, many 328 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.920 different forms of spirituality out there, and you have to 329 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:34.079 look at all of it as a whole. I don't 330 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.680 like to zone in or hone in on one specific thing. 331 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:39.359 I like to kind of look at it as a whole. 332 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:41.880 I've long said that, you know, I'm almost like the 333 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:43.559 coexist bumper sticker in my mind. 334 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:45.799 That's really where I look into. 335 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:49.960 I will say this one thing that I find very 336 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:56.079 fascinating is that every single group, every single religion has. 337 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:02.920 A almost like a stras, a spiritual branch off of it, right, 338 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:09.680 like a deeper, more philosophical trying to understand like the 339 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:13.079 more mystical version of the religion itself, every single one 340 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.960 of them. So you know, within Islam you have Sufism, 341 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:22.559 Within Judaism, you have the Kabbalah. Within Christianity you have 342 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.519 Ronostism and Rosicrucianism and stuff like that. And there seems 343 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:32.000 to be thinkers of every religion that has ever well, 344 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:36.319 every you know, well documented religion has had its thinkers 345 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:39.279 that have really tried to understand it at a more 346 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.160 deeper level. And so that's where I like to go. 347 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:44.559 I like to understand, all right, what did the fucking 348 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:49.160 prime thinkers of all of these religions, Because in my mind, 349 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:52.440 man just accepting something as truth and just say well, 350 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.559 I have faith, I could never get behind that, because 351 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.079 it's it's like my parents telling me that Santa Claus 352 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:00.720 is real. You just got to have and that's kind 353 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.599 of and I'm not even judging anybody, I'm just saying 354 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:06.480 that's how my mind works, right, I can't just have faith. 355 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:09.480 I need to know, all right, And some people say, well, 356 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:12.640 that's your issue, right there, buddy, that's your issue right there. Pw. 357 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:13.519 You just need to know. 358 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:17.519 Like, No, that's why we look into conspiracies in general, right, Like, 359 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.680 I have a genuine curiosity about the true nature of 360 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:23.119 this reality. And one thing I found out is that 361 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.440 with every single religion, they all have a mystic branch, 362 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.440 and if you look into them, they all fucking rhyme. 363 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.240 Dude, Like that's the craziest thing to me. And I 364 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.119 agree with that statement. I absolutely agree, which is why 365 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.519 a lot of people will write off mysticism as a 366 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:40.240 whole because when you look at it, this one is 367 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:42.359 saying this side of things, this one is saying this 368 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.519 other side, this one is saying this. They're all pretty 369 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:47.559 much saying the exact same story, maybe with some different names, 370 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:51.079 in different terms and different phrases, but the overall message 371 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.319 and the overall things that you're supposed to apply to 372 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:56.240 your life rhyme. Just like you said, So let me 373 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.599 ask you this, and this is not trying to call 374 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.759 you out or whatever, Okay, just like you said, every religion, 375 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:08.160 the Vedics, the Buddhists, the Tao, the Fucking, the Jews, 376 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:11.440 the Christians, the Muslims. Every group has their own sect 377 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:15.559 of some sort of mysticism that is not countercultural, although 378 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:19.680 sometimes that is true. But sometimes they go in line 379 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.559 with the faith, just in a different way. And sometimes 380 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:25.240 they are opposed to the faith and they use certain 381 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:26.920 words from the faith, or whatever the case it be. 382 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:31.160 My question to you is, why, then, do you find 383 00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:35.440 more truth in mystics as a whole than you do 384 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:39.359 in the religion itself as a whole. What is it 385 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:42.440 about the mysticism of all of these religions, not just Christianity, 386 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.279 not just the Gnostics, not just the Kabbala, and not 387 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:48.599 just all of it. You seem to naturally gravitate towards 388 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:55.799 mystic philosophical conversation rather than spiritual in a religious sense conversation. 389 00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:59.319 What is it about you that draws you to mysticism? 390 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:02.039 There's just something about the nature of this reality that 391 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:04.079 doesn't necessarily check out to me. 392 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.000 Now, maybe that's because of the DMT trips and the 393 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:11.440 mushroom trips, but I've had my reality shattered several times, 394 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:13.319 and a lot of times it's not even due to 395 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:14.279 psychedelic drugs. 396 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:16.599 It's due to information that we're reading. And I'm like, 397 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:19.519 oh my god, it completely shatters my reality. It completely, 398 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:23.519 It destroys everything that I thought I knew. Right And 399 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:26.599 there seems to be some kind of mystical underlay in 400 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:30.359 life that some people, you know, maybe they don't notice. 401 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:32.880 Maybe you know, it doesn't maybe maybe they do kind 402 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:34.839 of notice, but they don't know what box to really 403 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:37.519 put it in. In my mind, I'm like, no, Like, 404 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.480 everything has to be explainable. There can't be unexplainable things, 405 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:44.880 right like, And I see, well, what do you mean 406 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:47.720 by that? There's all kinds of unexplainable things. I mean, 407 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:54.160 like personal unexplainable things, Like everybody has a personal mystical 408 00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:58.480 experience that they can talk about that doesn't necessarily, you know, 409 00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:01.759 one hundred percent check out with the story we've been 410 00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.720 told or any you know, religious story we've been told. 411 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.720 And so people look a little bit deeper, right like, 412 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:09.920 even for you, like you had an example of a 413 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:14.480 demon and an angel named Jonathan. Nowhere in any Bible, 414 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.720 in any religious text, has there ever been an angel 415 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.079 named Jonathan. You would think, if it's real, maybe it 416 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:23.440 was documented somewhere. So if that happened to me. In 417 00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:26.079 my mind, I'm like, all right, I know I saw 418 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:28.799 this guy, right like, I know that he exists. I 419 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:32.000 saw him save me. There is no doubt in my mind, 420 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.160 one hundred percent, there is an angel name Jonathan. And 421 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:37.200 so especially you, being more of the logical mind, you're like, 422 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:40.119 all right, was I just trippin'? And if I wasn't 423 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:42.279 just tripping, then that name had to have been talked 424 00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:44.519 about for a very long time. So then you start 425 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:46.880 digging a little bit deeper, right, And that's kind of 426 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:49.680 like where I take it is that people have strange 427 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:52.519 things that happened to them that don't check out, and 428 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.759 they don't necessarily hold water. 429 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:55.759 And whenever you. 430 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:57.839 Go and ask questions, of course, you're just told just 431 00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.160 to have faith and believe in a lot of time. 432 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.720 That is enough for some people. It's not enough for me. 433 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.960 There's no record of all of the names of the angels, 434 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:11.279 by the way, that's not a thing they have. We 435 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:14.240 have the names of the archangels, sure, but we don't 436 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:17.279 have a list of names of every single angelic host 437 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:19.759 that floats around with you with God like that. That's 438 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:23.640 not a thing that exists. And also Jonathan means gift 439 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:27.720 from God, does it not? Yes, it do. And in 440 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.880 that situation, I was being tormented and God sent a 441 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:35.920 gift to put that to rest. So I think that 442 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:38.440 it's very possible that, yes, that was a I believe 443 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.240 in my heart of hearts that was a real angel. 444 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.599 But to your point, it didn't lead me down a 445 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:44.759 rabbit hole of trying to find any record of the 446 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:47.400 name of Jonathan within angels. I mean, there's hundreds, if 447 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:49.480 not thousands of angels that are never listed. 448 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:52.839 Right, which blows my mind about you. I mean why, Well, 449 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.759 because you're a very logical individual, like you don't believe 450 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.000 in spirituality, Like that's just you think that the world 451 00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:03.200 is what it is, and we're here, we're sinners, and 452 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:04.079 we just accept it. 453 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:06.799 Rightly, there's a spiritual realm on top of what we 454 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:10.119 have going on. Absolutely, Yeah, well, I mean the way 455 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:12.480 I also believe in Noah's flood. Keep that in mind. 456 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:14.720 While I am logic in certain regards, I do have 457 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:17.559 faith in other regards of some things that are just unexplainable. 458 00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:21.079 That's I understand that that might make me a walking hypocrite. 459 00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:23.559 I get that, but I believe that you have to 460 00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:25.599 have a little bit of both to make existence happen. 461 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:30.000 Well, my thing is is that there are countless, you know, 462 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:33.960 mystical things that don't necessarily always translate to any one 463 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:37.880 specific religion. And that's you know, kind of where I'm 464 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:40.759 at right Like, it's interesting how there will be people 465 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:46.079 that believe in you know, miraculous and mystical, crazy prophecies 466 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:48.960 and stuff like that, only if it's coming from their religion. 467 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.839 If it comes from anywhere else, it has to be wrong. 468 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.200 It has to be somebody who is lying to you. 469 00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:57.960 It has to be a deceiver. Clearly, that's a demon. Clearly, 470 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:00.720 that's the devil. There's never a men gen of fucking 471 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:04.359 aliens in most of these you know, religious texts or anything. 472 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:06.880 You know, if there are aliens, well why were they 473 00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:07.559 never mentioned? 474 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:07.799 You know? 475 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:10.359 And it's like, I don't know. I think that it 476 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:13.759 excites people to do a little bit. 477 00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:14.680 More of their own research. 478 00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:18.039 And that's really where I go because throughout all of 479 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:21.680 my experiences and even down to the most minute synchronicities 480 00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:24.640 right now, I just said synchronicities, it's fucking eleven forty four, 481 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:27.000 you know what I mean, Like, maybe that's a coincidence. 482 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:31.680 Maybe that's just eh, I mean statistically it's possible, right, 483 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:35.680 But like, why why why does there seem to be 484 00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.400 some kind of matrix overlay to this? And why whenever 485 00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:42.400 they did the Imperial College London studies with the continuous 486 00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:45.119 DMT trip just a couple of years ago, why did 487 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.519 they say that whenever people are on DMT they're more 488 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.400 likely having the filter of reality taken off, in that 489 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.599 they're seeing more logically than what we do on a 490 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:59.559 regular basis about how we're only seeing about I mean, dude, 491 00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.680 we're seeing less than one percent of the entire color spectrum, 492 00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:05.640 which means that there is a lot more here than 493 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:08.599 what we know about. And so in my mind, I'm like, 494 00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:11.039 I accept that as fact. It's a scientific fact. 495 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:13.480 There is no not proving it, right, So if that 496 00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:15.640 is a fact, you have to factor it in. And 497 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:20.440 if you have to factor it in, well, even most 498 00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:26.279 religious scriptures themselves do a terrible job at explaining this 499 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.400 physical reality, right, Like, and if you would do a 500 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:31.240 terrible job. 501 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:34.839 At explaining this physical reality and you're not even mentioning 502 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.160 the other ninety nine percent of the color spectrum and 503 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.240 everything else that is going on, like, you hold almost 504 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:42.039 no validity in my mind, you are. 505 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:46.920 In my mind you are you're describing something from the 506 00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:49.799 mind of a man two thousand and three thousand, four 507 00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:52.480 thousand years ago that clearly didn't have the tools that 508 00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:54.759 we have today to be able to determine the nature 509 00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:58.160 of this reality, so therefore cannot be fact in my mind, 510 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:00.960 I agree with that, right, But then at the same time, 511 00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:05.119 mysticism holds zero validity with anything that can be fact 512 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:10.599 checked scientifically or historically. Meanwhile, religious texts absolutely do. So 513 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:15.000 why does mysticism hold more validity to you than religious texts? 514 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.200 Because again, we've had this conversation about yeah, it was 515 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.599 written by a man, and we have to trust the source. 516 00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:21.279 We have to have a level of faith in the 517 00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:24.519 source itself. The same could be said for any mystic book. Ever, 518 00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:27.440 there has to be faith and whoever wrote it that 519 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.759 they knew what the fuck they were talking about. Then 520 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:31.920 we get into the conversation of test the spirit and 521 00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:34.599 test the fruit. Right, then we hold that to the 522 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.640 same scrutiny that we would hold biblical text or you know, 523 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:42.359 Quronic text or Turonic text or whatever, to say, where 524 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:44.440 is the historicity here? How much of this is myth, 525 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.000 how much of this is legend, how much of it 526 00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:48.759 can be verified in fact check with hard empirical data 527 00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:53.039 that we can do these days, and mysticism holds pretty 528 00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:56.599 much no water. So why does mysticism hold more validity 529 00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:59.079 to you? Personally? We were just talking about science. 530 00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:00.799 I was hoping that it was going to go here, 531 00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:03.519 but I did come prepared in the case of this. 532 00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:07.319 Did you know that there is a sect of belief 533 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:11.680 that believes that Moses himself never even existed, that there 534 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.480 actually is no evidence of his existence anywhere. 535 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:19.240 Do you know that they just found his box two 536 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:21.880 years ago on top of a mountain and they carbon 537 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.039 dated it to the correct time and place. Then there's 538 00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:26.880 Egyptian records to also say that he existed and he 539 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:31.319 was the stepbrother of Ramses the second. Yeah, except for 540 00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:34.880 most scholars would tell you the lie detector test determined 541 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.160 that was a lie, sir. Unfortunately, Look, I'm not the 542 00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:40.400 lie detectors anymore. Actually, but continue, well, you know what 543 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:40.759 I mean. 544 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:46.240 Just as far as actual factual physical proof, there seems 545 00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:46.720 to not be. 546 00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:49.079 Now, I will say this is from a guy. 547 00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:52.480 He has been making his rounds in the conspiratorial realm. 548 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:54.319 I'm not even going to try and invite him on 549 00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:56.480 the show because I know it would just come and 550 00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.039 ruffle feathers. I'm not even But he did write an 551 00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:03.279 article recently in July. His name is Bishop Raymond Taylor. 552 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:06.599 Anybody that's ever heard of him, I mean, very interesting 553 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.000 because he is a scholar. You know, he he was 554 00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:10.920 going to school, I think to be a pastor or 555 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.880 a priest or something like that, went through all the studies, 556 00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:16.559 and you know, on his on his own accord, through 557 00:29:16.599 --> 00:29:19.720 his own understanding, and through looking at the facts, he 558 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:24.960 was able to determine that that Moses most likely didn't exist, 559 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:28.599 and that is that it is based upon a myth 560 00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:30.440 of sorts. And so I just want to read this 561 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.119 here for a second because you're you're kind of standing 562 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.359 on business whenever you say that mysticism is even crazier 563 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.200 than religion, right, and and that there isn't any proof 564 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.400 that mysticism was ever really any kind. 565 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:45.599 Of truthful, factual thing. 566 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:49.200 Whenever I brought up many of different instances of you know, 567 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:52.599 great thinkers and philosophers and spiritual people, and you think 568 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:54.720 about the Hindus and the Buddhists, and how are they 569 00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:58.119 able to find that the the yin yang actually does 570 00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:02.200 exist at the quantum le whenever you're talking about quantum entanglement. 571 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:05.319 How did they figure that out? You're talking about people 572 00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:08.799 that are going so deep and really understanding the nature 573 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.880 of this reality by going in which kingdom of heaven 574 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:13.519 is with Then I'm just throwing it out there. 575 00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:15.440 I'm not going, yeah, I'm not even gonna go down that. 576 00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:19.200 But the yin yang thing being what we're looking at 577 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.559 with the toroids at the quantum level, that is not 578 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:24.440 what they meant by ying and yang is a simbol. 579 00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:27.279 It's the same thing that there was a Christian conversation 580 00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:28.799 that was happening. If you look at the way our 581 00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:33.799 cells are constructing on our body, they're interlocking crosses, right, 582 00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:37.640 and they're like, see even more confirmation that Christ is king. 583 00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.720 And it's like, bro, the cross conversation came about in 584 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.599 thirty A. D ourselves have been made this way for 585 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.799 thousands and thousands and thousands of years. You're if you're 586 00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.440 looking for anything, you'll find it the yin and yang 587 00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:52.240 to say, there's a little good and every evil, and 588 00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:54.559 a little evil in every good is not the same 589 00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:56.400 thing as the image that we're looking at at the 590 00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.839 quantum level of toroids. That's that's kind of making some 591 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:01.880 thing out of nothing, the same way the Christians with 592 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.480 the cross symbolism, with the cell structure. 593 00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:08.960 Not entirely so the the the yin yang symbol is 594 00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.559 very interesting and and you can meditate on it and 595 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.240 speculate on it, you know, for forever, and try and 596 00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:19.039 really apply that kind of philosophy to just about everything 597 00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:21.440 about how there's a little bit of darkness within every light, 598 00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:23.599 and there's a little bit of light within every darkness. Right, 599 00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.680 It's a it's a duality. It's a dualistic system, which 600 00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:29.759 I'm so happy you brought that up, because this is 601 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:34.160 actually a lot of Gnostic thought depends entirely on dualism. 602 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:38.359 Like that's all they were was a dualist sect, right, 603 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:40.880 which I mean, And to be honest, you could kind 604 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.079 of say that about most religions if you really look 605 00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:45.400 at the bare bones of it, right, And and we're. 606 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:46.519 Gonna do what I'm telling you. 607 00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:49.559 It is crazier than most people think, especially whenever it 608 00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:53.000 comes to this this whole last Supper script that we're 609 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:56.400 going to get to but it's it's wild. But you know, 610 00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:58.559 they were from what I was able to find, they 611 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:02.279 were basically an algamation of thought, you know, like they 612 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:05.039 took a little Chinese philosophy, they took a little dow, 613 00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:06.960 they took a little this, they took a little that, 614 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.000 they took, they added in philosophy, and they're kind of, 615 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:12.960 you know, almost like a eclectic. 616 00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:13.119 In that way. 617 00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:15.160 And to be honest, that's why I like it. Like 618 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:17.839 I love eclectic thought. I love that we don't have 619 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:20.759 to only pull from this section of this year, of 620 00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.480 this reality, from these people's thoughts to get to the 621 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:24.160 absolute truth. 622 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:27.119 Why not bring it all together, because whenever you do that, 623 00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:32.519 you get conflicting ideologies. Right, Buddhism and Taoism and Islam 624 00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:36.440 conflict each other, and they all conflict the Vedics, and 625 00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.160 those all conflict the Gnostics. So when you take a 626 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:40.720 little thing that you like from this group and a 627 00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:42.599 little thing that you like from this group, that doesn't 628 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:44.839 make it more true. But that means that you're cherry 629 00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:46.599 picking information, and that's not a good way to go 630 00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:47.480 about business either. 631 00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:50.720 But what happens whenever you find the similarities within each 632 00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:53.319 of them, see most people are very geared in the 633 00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:55.799 mind to try and find what are our differences. 634 00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:57.319 I mean, look at the world. 635 00:32:57.160 --> 00:32:59.920 Today, we're more you could say that, you know, the 636 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.759 we are more divided now than we have ever been 637 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:06.079 because people are so focused on well, I'm this way 638 00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:07.839 and I know you're not that way, and you're just 639 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.359 so focused on how different we are about everything, when 640 00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:14.920 in the nature of reality is is that we're all here, We're. 641 00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:16.599 All experiencing the nature of this reality. 642 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:20.160 We're all living as human beings, we all have thoughts, 643 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:23.519 we all well, most of us, I don't know. Supposedly 644 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:25.640 there are some people out there that have no internal dialogue, 645 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:28.200 which I don't know. That might be a myth, but 646 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.519 but most people really want to try and understand what 647 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.680 the fuck are we actually doing here? And that's why 648 00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:36.759 you get, you know, some people to go off into 649 00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:40.599 their religious you know sect, I mean even the the 650 00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:44.400 oh what do they called, the non believers that don't 651 00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:50.200 believe in anything? Atheism, Yeah, Like, even atheism is a belief, right, Like, 652 00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:54.200 you can't escape the realm of belief because there just. 653 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:55.160 Has to be a belief. 654 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.680 There needs to be something that is holding all of 655 00:33:57.720 --> 00:33:58.880 this together, right. 656 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:01.960 But that's the point, right, If you look at the 657 00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:05.519 similarities between everybody, which there are, there are, absolutely. 658 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.839 Regardless of way more similarities that we have in common 659 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:09.360 than we have differences. 660 00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:12.480 I disagree with that. I think that the main ones. Yes, 661 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:17.159 all right, everybody, regardless of sex, religion, nation, they live 662 00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:21.360 in whatever. They want decent health care, they want good 663 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.159 education for their children. They want to not worry about 664 00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:26.079 where their next meal is coming from. Look, I'm not 665 00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:28.320 talking about our wants and our needs. I'm talking about 666 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.079 the nature of what it means to be a human. 667 00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:34.199 We have way more similarities than we have differences. No, No, 668 00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:35.599 that's what I'm saying. As far as just being a 669 00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:39.360 human goes. Take away politics, religion, all that shit. Everybody 670 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:42.199 wants a good future for their children, right, regardless of 671 00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:44.199 where you grow up or what religion. That is a 672 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.480 similarity that we all share. And I can agree with that. 673 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:49.440 And we could take this to the religion conversation too. 674 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:53.119 Every religion claims that they are a peaceful group. Everyone 675 00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:55.480 wants to live and let live. Everybody wants to find 676 00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:58.320 deeper meaning in life. Everybody wants to do right by 677 00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:01.360 their community. Yes, you're right, the these core tenants are 678 00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:04.840 pretty substantial across the board. That being said, when you 679 00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:10.119 get below surface level things, these religions completely conflict each other. 680 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.320 If you were to take all of these religious dogmas 681 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.400 and say that five fuck ten percent of all of 682 00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:18.800 this religious dogmas talking about the same thing and ninety 683 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.480 percent is not, I would definitely say that there is 684 00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:23.519 more differences than similarities, dude. 685 00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:27.800 And that's why people, at least, you know, my breed 686 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:30.760 of people, are more interested in looking at the gnostic 687 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:33.559 thought and the more mystical thought because it does seem 688 00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:37.360 to correlate with most others beliefs. And that's what I'm 689 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:39.480 trying to say. I mean, look at it this way. 690 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:42.960 Are you gonna have more in common with let's just 691 00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:43.840 go all. 692 00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:48.920 The way crazy here, a liberal transgender atheist who believes 693 00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.519 that she is a he, right like, are you gonna 694 00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:55.800 have more in common with that? Or an alien from planet. 695 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:59.599 Fleeb Flob who eats deep daub out of a hole 696 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:02.199 of a fucking hippopotamuss dick. 697 00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:05.239 You went well out on that one, But all right, 698 00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:06.800 that's what I'm trying to say. 699 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:10.000 What I'm saying is is that we are so much 700 00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:14.239 more alike than we are different. And that would mean 701 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.079 that we are so much more alike in the mind 702 00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:21.280 than we are different. Right, just how our minds work. 703 00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:24.159 We all see this reality as linear. I mean, unless 704 00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:28.199 you're a fucking psychic, you're seeing this reality as linear. 705 00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:30.760 That's the way our minds are. Here's the interesting fact. 706 00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:33.320 If you see nature, the nature of reality is linear, 707 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:35.199 and I see the nature of reality as linear. I 708 00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:37.079 look back at yesterday and I say that was yesterday. 709 00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:39.480 I look forward tomorrow that I say, that's tomorrow now 710 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:39.920 is now? 711 00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:40.400 Right? 712 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:44.719 How about you've never lived a yesterday, You've never lived 713 00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:47.360 to tomorrow. Every day that you live is always today, 714 00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:48.559 It's always right now. 715 00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:49.039 Right. 716 00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:51.960 Then you start to look into you know, some of 717 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.239 the science is suggesting that time isn't even necessarily linear, 718 00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:58.480 it's fucking cyclical. And you're like, wait a second, how 719 00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:02.239 could it possibly be cyclical? Remember yesterday, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. 720 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:03.880 I know that whenever the sun comes up and I 721 00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.800 have a breath in my lungs, that I will experience tomorrow. 722 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:11.239 We all plan our days according to tomorrow, right like 723 00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:16.199 most people will do that. But that's a very small similarity. Dude, 724 00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:19.480 that is if we're looking if we're focusing on just 725 00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:24.119 that time is linear, okay, cool, the sky is blue, okay, Yes, 726 00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:27.000 we can all agree on that water is wet. Well apparently, 727 00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:28.800 never mind, that's a bad example because half the internet 728 00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:31.360 doesn't believe that anymore. Yeah, if we look at the 729 00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:35.679 very superficial, obvious similarities, sure there's a ton of those. 730 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:39.000 But if you look again, just below superficial levels and 731 00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:40.920 get to the meat and potatoes of what makes a 732 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:44.519 person a person, there are far more differences in ideologies 733 00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:47.840 and philosophies and religion than there are similarities. And I 734 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:49.920 feel like we should be focusing on the bigger picture, 735 00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:52.280 not the small minute you know, nuances. 736 00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:56.639 I couldn't disagree more, but let's move on. So, I mean, 737 00:37:56.920 --> 00:37:58.239 you know what, I'm not even gonna read this because 738 00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:00.679 I'm not trying to rough any feathers on this episode necessarily. 739 00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:03.840 So the myth of Moses, I just want to say 740 00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:08.239 for everybody out there that's saying absolutely, historically we have 741 00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:11.840 the proof. There is factual evidence. Check yourself before you 742 00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:14.320 wreck yourself, do a little bit of research, and you know, 743 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.760 if you're trying to stand on business, stand on business, Okay, 744 00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:18.280 you just want. 745 00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:20.119 To throw that out there. And for the record, even 746 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.440 one of our cult members who was a Catholic, believes 747 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.800 that Moses was a mythical person who was probably comprised 748 00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:28.239 of like five or six different people made into one figure. 749 00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.440 So it's not like this is a crazy thing that 750 00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.159 nobody thinks. Yeah, there's a big school of thought to 751 00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:36.800 say that Moses would never actually existed. But again, please 752 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.719 everyone do your research and do your history in fact 753 00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:41.440 checking on it. I agree with you on that. 754 00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:44.039 Yeah, I definitely agree on that. Don't just take something 755 00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:45.960 as faith. And look, I'm not even coming after people 756 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.239 who just want to accept this, you know, the nature 757 00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:51.599 of their reality as just taking it on faith, taking 758 00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.000 it on somebody's word, taking it on God's word, taking 759 00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:57.039 it on your connection to God. Have no issue with that. 760 00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:59.320 You want to do that on a personal level, that's fine. 761 00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.480 But whenever you start condemning other people for having varying 762 00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:06.320 beliefs just because of what because it differs from what 763 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:07.440 you believe, I'm sorry. 764 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:10.400 You got to bring the fucking receipts. You're gonna like, 765 00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.199 you can't argue. You can't argue with somebody like that 766 00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:16.440 otherwise should Now you're arguing against faith. Now you're arguing 767 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.320 against belief, And I'm sorry, faith and belief don't hold 768 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:22.840 water whenever you're trying to win an argument and convince 769 00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:23.360 other people. 770 00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:26.920 It just not agrees. You shouldn't be contempt condemning anybody 771 00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:30.559 for believing something different than you. However, respectful debate and 772 00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:35.199 conversation I think definitely have their place. Yeah, no doubt. 773 00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:36.559 So all right. 774 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:42.079 This is actually from Thecathar dot info website, which I dude. 775 00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:45.599 What a wealth of information. This website is where I 776 00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:47.920 pulled up my article talking about the genocide of the 777 00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:51.199 Cathars and the Waldians and the other Catholics. So when 778 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:53.079 I saw this article, like, oh shit, this isn't the 779 00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:54.440 exact one that I have pulled up, but I have 780 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:56.679 a feeling it's gonna be pretty close. Oh dude, they have. 781 00:39:56.920 --> 00:40:00.000 I mean, we can get into, however, many different branches 782 00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:02.280 of this that you want to get into, because they 783 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:05.119 got you know, their their beliefs, their basic tenets, the 784 00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:09.960 implications the elect at the afterlife, heaven and hell, and 785 00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:13.920 like I mean, who led the crusade in the medieval warfare? 786 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:17.159 And it brings up, the the Dominicans and the Frans 787 00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:19.000 get it goes on and on. I mean, it is 788 00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:22.320 a full on fucking encyclopedia everything Cathar, which I was like, 789 00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:24.920 I've all right, that makes my job a little easier 790 00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:27.280 because I don't need to go to a thousand different websites. 791 00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:29.920 I mean, I do have several pulled up, but I 792 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:30.639 was like, holy shit. 793 00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.639 But anyway, it says the Cathars grew an influence in 794 00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:35.679 the long Is it langa doc or langa doc? 795 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.760 I've heard it pronounce both ways. I think it's tech 796 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:41.360 supposed to be pronounced langa doc. I think so. Yeah. 797 00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:44.760 So they grew an influence in the Langadoc throughout the 798 00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:47.199 twelfth century. Now this is southern France, is what we're 799 00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:51.519 talking about. Catholic chroniclers record that Cathars had become the 800 00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:54.440 majority religion in many places, and that Catholic churches were 801 00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:59.159 abandoned and in ruin. Of the Catholic clergy that remained, some, 802 00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:03.920 perhaps most, were themselves Cathar believers. The papacy responded initially 803 00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:10.119 by integating uh intigating, integrating preaching campaigns, and engaging in 804 00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:13.719 public debates, both of which proved humiliating features for the 805 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:17.159 crack teams of theologians sent by the pope. The next response, 806 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:20.039 in twelve oh eight was a war, or more accurately, 807 00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.360 a series of wars. Modern writers referred to them as 808 00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:26.280 the Cathar Wars, but traditionally the series was referred to 809 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:30.119 as the Albigensian Crusade. It was a formal crusade in 810 00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:32.639 this full sense of the word, preached and directed by 811 00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:36.039 the papacy and offering participants the remission of sins and 812 00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:37.440 an assured place in heaven. 813 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:42.079 Bro. Yeah, come on, I can't believe people bought this. You, Like, 814 00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:44.800 most of the crusades were waged in very similar ways. 815 00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:47.599 Keep in mind they were selling what's it not pardons. 816 00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:52.079 They were selling like bones of saints as remission for 817 00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:53.880 sins and like to get your family member out of 818 00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:56.039 purgatory for a couple of decades if you buy this 819 00:41:56.239 --> 00:42:00.920 finger knuckle of you know this particular saint. Yeah, it was, 820 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:03.760 it was. It was wild, bro. It's like Valhalla is 821 00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:05.599 what we're talking about right here. If you go to 822 00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:07.840 war and you die when you're in war and you're 823 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:11.920 defending our belief, then you automatically get brought in. It's 824 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:14.360 like fucking Odin and his army are going. 825 00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:16.880 To you know, it's like so ridiculous to even think 826 00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:18.719 that that you're just going to get in heaven by 827 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:21.000 murdering an opposition. 828 00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.719 It's like man killing killing, not murder. Well, no, with 829 00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:26.679 the Gnostics, it would have been a murder, not a killing. 830 00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:28.400 But like the Crusades that were waves in the Holy 831 00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:30.800 Land and stuff that was that was murder. That was 832 00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:34.000 not murder, rather that was killing because they were armed combatants. 833 00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:36.800 But yes, the same same kind of thought process that 834 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:39.079 was a big push is that they told all these 835 00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:42.280 peasant class people who could not read that it says 836 00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:44.079 right here in this book that you can't read that 837 00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:47.159 if you die in the name of God in combat, 838 00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:50.079 you get an automatic remission of sins for you and 839 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:52.199 your family, and you're guaranteed to go to heaven. And 840 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.800 there's like, well, I guess I'm taking a little little 841 00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.559 boat ride. Man. You are talking about the pope saying this, 842 00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:03.639 the alleged closest thing to God on earth that there 843 00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:08.039 is is saying this. Yeah, whenever I say test the fruit, 844 00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:12.199 I mean test the fucking fruit. Okay, So it says 845 00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:15.800 it was the Crusaders regarded themselves as being an on 846 00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:19.760 God's business and referred to themselves as pilgrims. From the 847 00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:23.559 first major siege at Beziers in twelve oh nine, the 848 00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:27.880 war became one of French plus their allies against the 849 00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:32.119 independent people of Langadoc plus their allies. Instead of Catholics 850 00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:34.639 against Cathars. It was up until at least twelve forty 851 00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:38.880 two consistently Catholics on the side against Cathars and Catholics 852 00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:44.199 on the other. The war saw many sieges, including Beziers, Carcione, Brahm, LeVar. 853 00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:46.320 I can't I'm not even gonna try and read the 854 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:48.639 most of those, but it was a bunch of different 855 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:50.760 cities and towns, villages. 856 00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:55.360 Whatever the sieges were of castra i e. Castles and 857 00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:58.480 their associated walled villages, towns or cities. Some gave up 858 00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:01.039 without a fight, the desired result of the crusader's deliberate 859 00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:05.840 terror tactics. These included Fanjo and Castle Naudri. After the 860 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:11.239 fall of Beziers and Carsone, it says terror tactics included mass, 861 00:44:11.239 --> 00:44:16.159 indiscriminate slaughter at Beziers and MArmand, and planned for Toulouse. 862 00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:21.239 Various atrocities at Brahm and LeVar and mass burnings at Uh. 863 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:25.280 These are French words, so it's hard. It's hard to say, 864 00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:26.719 but I can't read it because it's too small. 865 00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:29.039 My scream. But yeah, French word, French place. 866 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:32.400 So now we get to the abagency and Albergenzy and crusade. 867 00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.320 The Albergency and Crusade was a crusade against the people 868 00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:37.599 of the Langa Doc which began in twelve oh eight. 869 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:41.280 It is also known as the Cathar crusade. Like all crusades, 870 00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:44.000 it was I think we're kind of just reading over 871 00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:46.440 what we were reading, Okay, so it says in order 872 00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:49.199 to so, all right, why was it called the Albergensian 873 00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:52.960 crusade rather than the Cathark Crusade. In order to answer this, 874 00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:55.840 it is important to remember that Cathar is only of 875 00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:59.559 many names the Roman Church invented for members of this 876 00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:03.920 project brand of Gnostic dualism, many among other names, or 877 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:07.559 among many other names. They were called Albigensians from the 878 00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:11.800 erroneous belief that they were concentrated in the town of Albi. 879 00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:15.039 The term Cathar has become the standard term for them 880 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:18.239 only in recent times. That is why you probably can't 881 00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:20.960 find too much information on him because the names changed. 882 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:22.039 Right, It's like the. 883 00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:26.079 Opposing forces are the ones that gave this name out, 884 00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:28.800 almost like the term pagan, right, like you know, the 885 00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:32.280 Pagans of the times didn't call themselves pagan, sure, sure, 886 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:36.079 kind of like in that sense. The term Albigensian crusade 887 00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:38.920 is only used loosely to describe a series of formal 888 00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:45.599 crusades interpreted or yeah with continual warfare against the people 889 00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:48.519 of the Langadoc, which lasted for some forty years. The 890 00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:52.360 target of the crusade was Raymond the fifth of Toulouse 891 00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:55.440 and his vassals, but Raymond joined the crusade himself. This 892 00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:58.519 meant that he and his vassals came under the protection 893 00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:00.800 of the Church. That is why the first stages of 894 00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:03.519 the crusade were directed against the Beziers and the Carson, 895 00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:06.880 which did not belong to Raymond of Toulouse, but to 896 00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:11.440 a close relative, Ramon Roger Trancavel. The trick did not 897 00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:15.400 work for very long, and soon Raymond was excommunicated and 898 00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:19.239 his castles were under attack. After the initial seizure sieges 899 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:23.599 of Berzier and Carson, the crusader forces were led by 900 00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:28.000 Simon de Montfort and later his son Omri de Montfort, 901 00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:31.639 who were responsible for series of bloody battles, sieges, and massacres. 902 00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:35.119 Voltaire wrote about this crusade against the people of the 903 00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:36.599 Langa doc Now. 904 00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:39.519 Real quick, this is also one of the arguments to 905 00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:42.360 be made to say that it didn't exactly happen as 906 00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:48.039 the story goes. Is because this dude, Raymond, he wasn't 907 00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:52.320 a Cathar, right, but he joined the crusade to kill 908 00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:57.039 the Cathars and then later was excommunicated for god knows 909 00:46:57.079 --> 00:46:59.280 what reason. There is documentation on that. But my point 910 00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:01.599 is there is an argument to say that all this 911 00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:07.920 was way more politically motivated than it was spiritually motivated. Well, yeah, 912 00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:12.679 I'm sure the Catholics didn't need, you know, their followers 913 00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:15.960 unbelieving in going into gnosticism. I mean, that's as not 914 00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:19.079 as it gets. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying 915 00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:22.599 that it was way more drumming up charges against certain 916 00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:26.440 groups and certain people just for political reasons. Think of 917 00:47:26.519 --> 00:47:30.119 the Salem witch trials, right, all these people that were 918 00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:33.880 tried and executed for being witches. How many of them 919 00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:38.360 were actually practicing witchcraft. Fucking none. They were drummed up 920 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:41.000 charges as a way to make it feel like, oh see, 921 00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:43.360 we're ridden to the world of the evil and all 922 00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:46.199 these things. So that is another reason why the scholars 923 00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:48.760 are saying that it may not be what we originally thought. 924 00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:50.639 I'm not saying that I believe that one hundred percent, 925 00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:54.159 but yes, there's levels upon levels of things to unpack 926 00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:56.559 on this, oh for sure. Yeah, I mean take it 927 00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:57.840 all with a massive grain of salt. 928 00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:00.320 Anytime you're talking about something that happened us thou and 929 00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:03.960 years ago. I mean, we look at that even the 930 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:07.760 most recent history, you know, like all of that COVID 931 00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:12.159 vaccine information. You know, they're they're putting it literally on 932 00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:14.400 the back burner for the next sixty or seventy years. 933 00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:16.320 We're not going to have access to that, even though 934 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:18.320 a lot of it's coming out, you know, but the 935 00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:21.880 actual science behind a lot of it. They're saying, Yeah, 936 00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:24.400 the people of right now, like they should not fucking 937 00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:27.039 look into this because we convinced a lot of people 938 00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.880 to get a lot of these vaccines, and let's just 939 00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:31.840 wait until they're dead and then we'll tell their kids. 940 00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:32.199 You know. 941 00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:37.039 It's like crazy, But so who led the crusade. Most 942 00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:40.800 short accounts of the Cathark crusades mentioned only Simon de Montfort, 943 00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:43.239 and many of them confuse him with his son, also 944 00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:46.199 called Simon, who played such an important role in English history. 945 00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:49.079 The truth is slightly more complex. There was are no 946 00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:54.400 Omri Abbot of Siteaux, and then there was Simon de Montfort, 947 00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:56.840 Amri de Montfort, and then the king of France. So 948 00:48:56.920 --> 00:48:59.480 these were the main people that were leading the charge 949 00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:02.920 in the cruise sad. Then it gets into the different 950 00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:07.199 techniques of the medieval warfare, which is pretty interesting. But 951 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.519 for the most part, yeah, I mean, you had a 952 00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:15.119 series of crusades, uh that were that were going on 953 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:18.400 and slaughtering these people, and and it was hard to 954 00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:22.159 really try and figure out exactly why the crusades are happening, 955 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:23.159 you know, And. 956 00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:26.760 That's that's where, uh, it gets a little murky. So 957 00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:28.920 I have an article pulled up, and I don't know 958 00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:30.440 if you have one that you're about to lead into. 959 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:33.039 But from this exact same source that talks about the 960 00:49:33.079 --> 00:49:36.719 beliefs of the Cathars and the Waldians and the Boga 961 00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:39.519 mills and these things, which might lead a little bit 962 00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:44.440 of some uh, some backstory as to the why honestly, 963 00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:46.039 but we'll get doing a bit. 964 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:47.920 Well, and that's I mean, I have it all pulled 965 00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:49.519 up right here. So if you want to get to 966 00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:53.360 the beliefs. My point is is that what you just 967 00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:56.280 you just go around killing somebody that that believes different 968 00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:58.079 from you. 969 00:49:58.159 --> 00:49:59.960 No, it's not just that there was the beliefs that 970 00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:02.639 were different. It was that these And again I'm not 971 00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:05.280 saying that this is justification before I say what I'm 972 00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:06.639 about to say, Please don't think that I'm on the 973 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:09.159 side of the Catholic Church here. What I'm saying is 974 00:50:09.159 --> 00:50:14.119 that these beliefs weren't just contradictory. They were outright insulting 975 00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:17.800 to the Christianity of the day and age, to the Catholics. 976 00:50:17.800 --> 00:50:20.639 And yeah, there was Protestantism that was taking root, but 977 00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:22.639 they weren't insulting the Bible. 978 00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:27.639 They were insulting the Pope, well, specifically insulting the Catholic Church. 979 00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:31.000 I mean they specifically called out the Catholic Church for 980 00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:33.000 being the actual whore of Babylon. 981 00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:35.559 Well, yeah, no doubt. But then when you also look 982 00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:38.159 at the Gnostic texts and you look at the Cathlart beliefs, 983 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:40.519 and they believed in the dualistic society and that all 984 00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:44.000 of earth was created by Satan. That completely spits in 985 00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.400 the face of the Bible, not the Catholic Church. 986 00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:50.559 No, it actually doesn't. It actually doesn't. And we're gonna 987 00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:53.039 get to it. But how many times throughout the Bible 988 00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:56.239 that says that essentially the earth is the Devil's playground, 989 00:50:56.440 --> 00:51:00.159 that he is the prince of all of the land, right. 990 00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:04.400 He didn't create it? Well, I don't know. I mean 991 00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:09.199 hold him becoming the ruler of Therefore, that came way 992 00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:12.320 way way later than the creation of the earth, dude. 993 00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:15.679 I mean, yeah, if you're to take it on belief, sure, 994 00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:18.119 And that's the thing is, like, when did all of 995 00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:19.320 these stories originate? 996 00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:23.119 Right, That's my point. We're talking about conflicting beliefs. There's 997 00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:27.000 no historical document to say God created this earth and 998 00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:30.000 then and or the devil created this earth. Both of 999 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.519 these are faith based conversations. One of them completely insults 1000 00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:38.079 the other. And this they conflict. They're not. They're butting 1001 00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:40.360 heads on this, That's what I'm saying. It's not just 1002 00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:43.559 like saying, oh they're not they're not entirely conflicting, is 1003 00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:46.599 what I'm trying to say. Okay, well, I can't wait 1004 00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:48.079 till we get to the Book of the Supper, because 1005 00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:51.159 I promise you it is completely conflicting, even to the 1006 00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:54.519 historical accounts of Jesus himself. But we'll get to it. 1007 00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:57.119 I'm not even gonna go down that rabbit hole. I'm 1008 00:51:57.159 --> 00:51:58.760 not gonna say what I want to say about that. 1009 00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:01.480 But let's let's just move So there were if we 1010 00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:04.000 want to try and understand what the cathar beliefs are, 1011 00:52:04.159 --> 00:52:07.159 maybe you never really looked into a Gnostic gospel. Maybe 1012 00:52:07.159 --> 00:52:09.480 you think that it's heretical to even think about looking 1013 00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:09.920 into it. 1014 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:10.519 I get it. 1015 00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:14.199 But for the people that are a little bit more 1016 00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:18.360 open minded, you know, we don't have boundaries that we 1017 00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:19.280 have to abide by. 1018 00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:20.920 So it's a little bit more fun on this end. 1019 00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:24.639 But anyway, it says Cathar's clearly regarded themselves as good Christians. 1020 00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:28.000 Literally is what their name translated to, since that is 1021 00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:31.280 exactly what they called themselves good Christians. On the surface, 1022 00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:34.760 their basic beliefs seem unremarkable. Most people would have a 1023 00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:38.840 difficulty in distinguishing the principal Cathar beliefs from what are 1024 00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:43.559 now regarded as conventional Orthodox Christian beliefs. However, pursuing their 1025 00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:48.320 fundamental beliefs of their logical conclusion revealed surprising implications. For example, 1026 00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:51.800 that the Roman Catholics were mistakenly following a Satanic God 1027 00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:56.159 rather than the beneficent God worshiped by the Cathars. Like 1028 00:52:56.199 --> 00:53:00.719 the earliest Christians, Cathars recognized no priesthood. They did not, however, 1029 00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:04.480 distinguished between ordinary believers and a smaller inner circle of 1030 00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:08.159 leaders initiated in secret knowledge, known at the time as 1031 00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:13.079 the bonnie Hominism, which just translates to good men, now 1032 00:53:13.159 --> 00:53:16.920 generally referred to as the elect as the parfates. 1033 00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:20.800 I've heard it also called the perfects perfectie. Yeah, let's 1034 00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:24.119 say they definitely acknowledged the priesthood. There's a whole thing 1035 00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:26.800 your baptism. It wasn't like through water, it was through 1036 00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:30.039 the laying of hands of the perfectee or the elite. 1037 00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:34.320 So they absolutely acknowledged the priesthood. But okay, yeah, that's 1038 00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:34.880 what it's saying. 1039 00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:37.480 So the Cathars had a church hierarchy and a number 1040 00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:41.159 of rites and ceremonies. They believed in reincarnation and in heaven, 1041 00:53:41.239 --> 00:53:44.280 but not in Hell as it is normally as it 1042 00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:48.719 is now normally conceived by mainstream Christians. The Cathar view 1043 00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:51.599 was that their theology was older than the Roman Catholic Church, 1044 00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:54.480 and that the Roman Church had corrupted its own scripture, 1045 00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:57.719 invented new doctrine, and abandoned the beliefs and practices of 1046 00:53:57.719 --> 00:54:00.599 the early Church. The Catholic view, of course, was exactly 1047 00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:04.000 the opposite. They imagined Catharism to be a badly distorted 1048 00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:08.880 version of Catholicism in addition the accusing. In addition to 1049 00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:12.519 accusing the Cathars of false theology, they imagined a range 1050 00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:17.559 abominable practice practices which would have been amusing except that, 1051 00:54:17.719 --> 00:54:21.360 converted into propaganda, they led to the death of countless 1052 00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:25.400 thousands of countless thousands Through the cathart Crusades and the Inquisition. 1053 00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:29.360 The Roman Church seem to have successfully extirpated Cathars and 1054 00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:32.559 Cathar beliefs by the early fourteenth century, but the truth 1055 00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:35.679 is more complicated. For one thing, modern historians have shown 1056 00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:39.480 that many Catholic claims were false, while they while they 1057 00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:43.880 have vindicated many Cathar claims interesting and there is a 1058 00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.239 case that the Cathar legacy is more influential today than 1059 00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.800 it has been at any time over the last seven 1060 00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:53.400 hundred years. Cathars were duellists, that is, they believed in 1061 00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:56.519 two universal principles, a good God and a bad God, 1062 00:54:56.679 --> 00:55:01.320 much like the Jehovah and Satan of mainstream Christianity. As dualists, 1063 00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:04.119 they believe to a tradition that was already ancient in 1064 00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:08.199 the days of Jesus, so before even Jesus. 1065 00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:12.119 That's I don't understand the source on that one, but 1066 00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:16.239 let's let's keep going. No, dualism definitely precedes Jesus. Ah 1067 00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:18.880 got you, got you, gotcha, Okay, yeah, yeah uh. They 1068 00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:22.800 revered Magi in the in the Nativity story where where 1069 00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:27.159 Zoroastrians Persian dualists. So dualism came and still comes in 1070 00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:30.280 many flavors, even the Cathar variety came in more than 1071 00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:33.880 one flavor, but the but the principal one was this. 1072 00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:37.280 The good God was the God of all immaterial things 1073 00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:40.159 such as light and souls. The Bad God was the 1074 00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:43.400 God of all material things, including the world and everything 1075 00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:45.840 in it. So that's that's really the divide. 1076 00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:49.079 They're saying. Look, this is an illusion. What we're living 1077 00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:51.840 in right now is not the real world. The real 1078 00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:55.159 world is that is that of the world of God, 1079 00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:59.079 the one that is immaterial. The things that are that 1080 00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:02.079 are not like things that you can't bring with you 1081 00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:04.400 after death. And that's where I kind of align with it, 1082 00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:07.000 because you can't bring any of this stuff with you 1083 00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:10.880 after death, so therefore it's not the real stuff compared 1084 00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:13.119 to the real stuff in God's house. 1085 00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:16.320 Right. I don't understand what you're saying anyway, but you 1086 00:56:16.400 --> 00:56:19.719 understand that what you just said is completely conflicting to 1087 00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:23.639 biblical narrative, both Old and New Testament. When he talks 1088 00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:26.000 about that I'm the God of all things seen and unseen. 1089 00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:29.000 There are no other gods other than myself. There is 1090 00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:33.039 only one creator all of these things. They are basically saying, yeah, 1091 00:56:33.079 --> 00:56:34.880 but we're doing this other thing anyway because it makes 1092 00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:38.400 more sense to us. Uh, well, that's what they're saying. That. 1093 00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:41.119 What the Cathars are saying is that the Roman Catholic Church, 1094 00:56:41.480 --> 00:56:44.119 you know, they they kind of fudge the numbers, they 1095 00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:46.920 change some words, they put in books that only led 1096 00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:50.199 to their power, their control, And that's what they were 1097 00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:52.519 trying to say, is that, you know, like, if you 1098 00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:55.639 look at what the Roman Catholic Church stands for, it 1099 00:56:55.840 --> 00:57:00.800 seems to be more representative of the physic nature of 1100 00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:03.840 reality and not so much God's nature of reality, is 1101 00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:04.719 what they're trying to say. 1102 00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:07.239 But we're gonna We're gonna go on a little bit more. Okay, 1103 00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:10.480 So the bad. 1104 00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:12.679 God was, uh, the bad God was the god of 1105 00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:15.000 all material things, including the world and everything in it. 1106 00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:19.119 He had contrived to capture souls and imprison them in 1107 00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:22.360 human bodies through the process of conception. As Cathar has 1108 00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:26.199 put it, we are all divine sparks, even angels, imprisoned 1109 00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:29.760 in tunics of flesh, which is I mean, look, if 1110 00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:32.400 you just get yourself out of the religion, like out 1111 00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:35.519 of the I don't want to say brainwashing to whatever, 1112 00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:37.480 but I'm just saying, if you're to think outside of 1113 00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:40.000 the box, what if that is real? 1114 00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:41.920 Though, like on some real shit. And this is where 1115 00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:43.719 I go with it, because there's no way to prove 1116 00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:46.719 any fucking thing, right, Like, what if you were to 1117 00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:48.760 just completely jump outside of the box and have a 1118 00:57:48.800 --> 00:57:49.519 mind of your own? 1119 00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:53.239 What if it is true that like we are kind 1120 00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:56.800 of imprisoned in tunics of flesh. But we're really like 1121 00:57:56.960 --> 00:57:59.960 angels or divine sparks or souls or whatever, like imagine 1122 00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:01.079 that to be a reality. 1123 00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:03.719 I mean, no, no, I see what they're saying. For sure, 1124 00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:07.920 we are spirits. We are souls having a human experience, 1125 00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:09.719 and so we when we and you have talked about 1126 00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:10.599 that many many times. 1127 00:58:10.599 --> 00:58:12.760 And then you get into Bob Lazar saying that, you know, 1128 00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:17.039 it's documented that all we are is just fucking containers. 1129 00:58:17.320 --> 00:58:19.880 You know. And I get this too, But that being said, 1130 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:23.199 it's to say that we are or our spirits or 1131 00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:24.920 our souls are angels. 1132 00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:29.639 That's again, very very conflicting. Speak for yourself. I heard 1133 00:58:29.679 --> 00:58:31.920 of an angel named Jonathan Ones. But anyway, so. 1134 00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:34.559 Yeah, and I heard of a Jacob that became Israel 1135 00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:37.079 in the Bible. I'm not him. My spirit is not 1136 00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:39.440 his spirit. Like, that's not how that goes either. Maybe 1137 00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:39.920 you never know. 1138 00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:44.559 So according to later cath Our ideas, when we die, 1139 00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:47.360 the when we die, the powers of the air throng 1140 00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:50.880 around and persecute the newly released soul, which flees into 1141 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:54.320 the first lodging of clay that it finds this quote 1142 00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:57.800 unquote lodging of clay might be human or animal. The 1143 00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:01.239 soul would therefore be condemned to a cycle of rebirth 1144 00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:05.199 trapped in another physical body. By leading a good enough life, 1145 00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.960 human beings or rather souls, could win freedom from imprisonment 1146 00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:13.000 and return to Heaven, the immaterial realm of the Good God. 1147 00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:17.880 For members of the elect, those who had undertaken the Consolamentum, 1148 00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:21.599 death was no more than taking off a dirty tunic. 1149 00:59:22.039 --> 00:59:24.920 So yeah, I mean, the Consolamentum was their version of 1150 00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:28.800 a baptism, which when you look at the practice itself, 1151 00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:31.679 there was no water. They actually saw water as inherently 1152 00:59:31.760 --> 00:59:34.440 evil too, because it is a physical thing, right, and 1153 00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.199 so it must be created by, for lack of better words, 1154 00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:39.199 the demi urge. And I'm not saying that they use 1155 00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:41.000 that term, but it makes more sense than the gnostic 1156 00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:44.639 and dualistic conversations. Basically demiurge. Yeah, yeah, And so they 1157 00:59:44.679 --> 00:59:48.519 believed that the baptism was from the laying of hands 1158 00:59:48.639 --> 00:59:52.320 upon the head of the New Initiate. But that also 1159 00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:55.159 kind of makes no sense because they're laying physical hands, 1160 00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:58.679 which are evil, onto the physical head, which is evil 1161 00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:01.599 of the New Initiate. So it makes no sense to me. 1162 01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:04.480 But yes, they didn't do the baptisms in the same way. 1163 01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:07.480 It because the energy of the hands. 1164 01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:10.239 It wasn't the hands themselves, it was the energy that 1165 01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:13.960 was being like transferred from the hands onto the other 1166 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:14.719 person's body. 1167 01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:16.800 But then why didn't they just like put a hand 1168 01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:19.280 out and not touch them. You see what I'm saying. 1169 01:00:20.079 --> 01:00:22.199 It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but 1170 01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:24.800 it doesn't have to. I get it. I mean, yes, 1171 01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:29.239 the fact is is that most religious shit doesn't make sense. Like, 1172 01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:31.159 can we just say that, like across the board, most 1173 01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:33.480 of it don't make sense, right, And that's what I 1174 01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:34.320 did the whole disagree. 1175 01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:37.639 That's what I did, the whole Nephilum and the fucking 1176 01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:40.159 Noah's Ark and all that shit, just to show you 1177 01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:42.320 that it's you know, if you want to try and 1178 01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:45.079 point out that everybody else is crazy for their beliefs, 1179 01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:48.800 understand that you are equally as crazy, at least equally 1180 01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:49.400 as crazy. 1181 01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:52.679 Respectfully, I disagree. We've talked about how water is a 1182 01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:55.880 spiritual substance and has a memory and has all these things. 1183 01:00:55.880 --> 01:00:58.119 So there's reasons to why people would think that baptism 1184 01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:01.760 by water is such a spiritual thing. I'm you know, yeah, 1185 01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:04.440 I don't believe that that is a crazy thing to 1186 01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:06.920 say that water is a spiritual substance. We need it, 1187 01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:10.119 We're made up of seventy percent of it. There's anyway anyway. 1188 01:01:10.239 --> 01:01:12.960 My point is that, yes, the Gnostics believed in a 1189 01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:17.400 type of quote unquote baptism, but it did not involve water. 1190 01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:20.519 It involved the laying of hands and then this one 1191 01:01:20.639 --> 01:01:24.000 thing would make the soul ready to get out of 1192 01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:27.360 the reincarnation cycle. However, they also believe that you could 1193 01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:30.840 fall back like you could, you could backslide in your beliefs, 1194 01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:33.039 and you would have to rego through this process to 1195 01:01:33.079 --> 01:01:35.480 get right with the benevolent God in order to break 1196 01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:37.639 the cycle again. So like you had to be on 1197 01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:39.480 your p's and q's. It wasn't like a one time, 1198 01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:42.159 saved for life kind of thing. Well, neither is baptism. 1199 01:01:42.159 --> 01:01:45.480 How many people get multiple baptisms in life. It's that 1200 01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:47.760 is supposed to be a one and done. Also, that's 1201 01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:49.159 that's not supposed to be a thing that you do. 1202 01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:51.079 Nowhere in the New Testament does it say that you're 1203 01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:53.800 supposed to ask for forgiveness multiple times for the same sin. 1204 01:01:54.199 --> 01:01:56.800 Once you're forgiven, you're forgiven, you're forgiven. That's how that goes. 1205 01:01:56.840 --> 01:02:00.480 But anyway, sure, but that's not their nature, that's not 1206 01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:03.480 the reality of it. I mean, I'm sure you can 1207 01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:06.320 come up with at least twenty people that were baptized 1208 01:02:06.360 --> 01:02:06.960 more than once. 1209 01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:10.239 Oh, I mean sure, But that's that's a them thing. 1210 01:02:10.360 --> 01:02:12.000 The Bible doesn't say to do that. 1211 01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:16.360 The realm of the Good God, heaven was filled with 1212 01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:19.440 light just to go on. Some Cathars regarded the stars 1213 01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:23.079 as divine sparks or souls or angels in heaven regarded 1214 01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:25.400 the stars as that the realm of the Bad God 1215 01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:28.519 was the material world in which we serve out our 1216 01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:32.199 earthly terms. Satan had entrapped these divine sparks and created 1217 01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:34.599 humankind as their prison. Thus there was a part of 1218 01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:37.480 the Good God trapped in all men and women, longing 1219 01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:40.880 to rejoin its maker. The Bad God filled with humankind 1220 01:02:40.920 --> 01:02:45.039 with temptations to frustrate souls from ever making that reunion. 1221 01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:49.000 They could be tortured by disease, famine, and other travials 1222 01:02:49.159 --> 01:02:53.880 or travails, including man's own inhumanity to his fellow man. 1223 01:02:54.119 --> 01:02:56.400 Yet the Bad God had no power over the soul, 1224 01:02:56.519 --> 01:02:59.079 a divine spark of the Good God. His remit was 1225 01:02:59.079 --> 01:03:02.280 confined to matis burial things. Any hell that existed was 1226 01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:05.440 here on this material earth. To confound the bad God, 1227 01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:09.719 it was necessary to abstain from all earthly temptations and 1228 01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:13.079 to strength strengthen the inner spirit by prayer. It was 1229 01:03:13.119 --> 01:03:15.760 an argument that seemed to provide a rational explanation for 1230 01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:20.000 all of the misfortunes of the world. Dualist ideas had 1231 01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:23.280 a long history, stretching back well into pre Christian times. 1232 01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:26.800 All of the essentials were known to the Greek philosophers. 1233 01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:30.079 Plato held that the soul yearns to fly home on 1234 01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:33.000 the wings of love to the world of ideas. According 1235 01:03:33.039 --> 01:03:35.559 to him, it longs to be freed from the chains 1236 01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:40.840 of the body. Early Christianity had adopted Neoplatonist ideas. Neoplatonism 1237 01:03:40.880 --> 01:03:45.199 taught a doctrine of salvation alongside dualism. And by the way, 1238 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:49.320 you know, it is said that there are a lot 1239 01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:53.320 of Platonic ideas within the Bible, and I know that 1240 01:03:53.360 --> 01:03:56.679 some people would disagree with that. I got a recede 1241 01:03:56.719 --> 01:03:59.920 on it, and you can agree or agree to disagree 1242 01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:02.719 either way. But the idea that Plato had some form 1243 01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:05.320 of influence, and that was that's kind of a main 1244 01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:07.760 talking point, is that what the Catholics will bring up, 1245 01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:13.519 they'll say, see, uh, the Cathars and narcissism in general 1246 01:04:13.880 --> 01:04:18.119 was majorly influenced by Plato and a lot of his philosophy. 1247 01:04:18.280 --> 01:04:22.400 Right, but the Bible itself, right, not Plato. It was 1248 01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:25.559 Platinus that they took their influences from. For Platonism, correct, well, 1249 01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:26.559 it all comes from Plato. 1250 01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:29.760 But yeah, Platinus turned it into Neoplatonism, which is just 1251 01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:32.840 the newer, more in depth version of Platonism. 1252 01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:34.159 Okay, fair enough. 1253 01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:38.559 So it says human bodies were material objects made of 1254 01:04:38.599 --> 01:04:42.079 earth and dust, but but our immortal souls were not. 1255 01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:45.239 They were sparks of the divine. The divine was characterized 1256 01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:48.840 as light opposed to the darkness according to Platinus, which 1257 01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:51.079 I love that you mentioned because he's one of my favorites. 1258 01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:56.039 According to Platinus, souls were illuminated by the divine light. Matter, 1259 01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:58.440 on the other hand, was just darkness and had no 1260 01:04:58.519 --> 01:05:02.519 real existence. These Platonists ideas were an integral part of 1261 01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:06.039 early Christianity, later dropped in mainstream Christianity when it switched 1262 01:05:06.039 --> 01:05:09.719 from Plato's philosophy to Aristotles as a result of Thomas 1263 01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:14.960 Aquina's attempts to reconcile Christianity with Aristotle's philosophy. The Cathar's 1264 01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:19.239 teachings on this, as on many other matters, reiterate those 1265 01:05:19.239 --> 01:05:22.039 of the early Church. They provide one of a number 1266 01:05:22.039 --> 01:05:25.159 of pieces of circumstantial evidence that the origins that their 1267 01:05:25.239 --> 01:05:29.039 origins date from early Christian times. The idea that flesh 1268 01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:32.880 was inherently evil became popular in mainstream Christianity too. It 1269 01:05:32.920 --> 01:05:36.039 was formalized in the concept of original sin and was 1270 01:05:36.199 --> 01:05:41.239 enormously popular up until the twentieth century. Significantly, the doctrine 1271 01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:44.599 of original sin was invented by Saint Augustine, a Christian 1272 01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:49.320 who had been previously a Manaicean or a Manichean i e. 1273 01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:53.519 A Gnostic duellist. Today this traditional teaching is played down, 1274 01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:56.000 and it comes as a shock to many Christians to 1275 01:05:56.039 --> 01:05:59.639 hear the words like that of the Burial Service from 1276 01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:03.000 the Book Book of Common Prayer, contrasting an evil material 1277 01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:06.119 body with a good spiritual one. Our Lord Jesus Christ, 1278 01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:08.840 who shall change our vile body that it may be 1279 01:06:09.199 --> 01:06:11.280 like to His glorious body. 1280 01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:14.239 I don't understand why that's such a weird thing for 1281 01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:16.960 Christians to wrap their heads around, like to say that 1282 01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:20.280 we're born into sin and like that our bodies. Even 1283 01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:23.639 Paul says, I strike my flesh to get it to 1284 01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:26.119 submit to my will because the flesh is weak, but 1285 01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:29.639 the soul is strong. It blows in mind that so 1286 01:06:29.679 --> 01:06:32.440 many Christians have an issue with that. But you know, 1287 01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:35.119 most Christians that I know understand that we are born 1288 01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:38.119 into original sin. And yes, not every baby that's born 1289 01:06:38.239 --> 01:06:40.079 is a sinner, but they will be within the first 1290 01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:42.280 five years of their life, because that's human nature. 1291 01:06:42.679 --> 01:06:45.079 It's not crazy, It's not even just a Christian thing. 1292 01:06:45.159 --> 01:06:47.760 I'll say this, Like most people are so convinced that 1293 01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:50.519 they are their body, they are their mind, and that 1294 01:06:50.840 --> 01:06:52.800 this is all I ever have been. This is why 1295 01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:56.079 you have like people that you know that don't believe 1296 01:06:56.119 --> 01:06:59.159 in anything, you know, like because all I am is 1297 01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:02.079 just this right and it's a it's a shitty creation 1298 01:07:02.199 --> 01:07:03.760 at that, Like we get sick. 1299 01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:05.000 You know, we break bones. 1300 01:07:05.320 --> 01:07:09.039 We are basically like fucking just flesh suits and for 1301 01:07:09.159 --> 01:07:11.199 what just to go to work and pay taxes and 1302 01:07:11.239 --> 01:07:14.440 people you know, like those kind of people. Unfortunately, they 1303 01:07:14.800 --> 01:07:17.360 almost like lose their purpose to even then and their 1304 01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:20.639 will to even live because they just believe that all 1305 01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:23.639 we are is just a body and after this nothing 1306 01:07:23.679 --> 01:07:26.400 happens and it was, you know, our creation was an accident, 1307 01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:30.360 and it's like fucking crazy. No, I agree, I agree, 1308 01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:33.000 And it's it's unfortunate that people have led themselves to 1309 01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:36.199 believe that. Like the fact that your brain, the fact 1310 01:07:36.199 --> 01:07:38.480 that your heart is beating right now without you having 1311 01:07:38.519 --> 01:07:40.519 to think about it to make it do so. To me, 1312 01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:44.079 the fact that your body is such a well orchestrated 1313 01:07:44.199 --> 01:07:47.800 instrument of machinery that there's no way that any human 1314 01:07:47.840 --> 01:07:50.559 could be smart enough to actually like blueprint and draw 1315 01:07:50.599 --> 01:07:51.559 out in this way. 1316 01:07:52.159 --> 01:07:56.400 That is mind blowing. Yeah. Yeah, but so also a 1317 01:07:56.440 --> 01:07:59.599 lot of you know, I I'm not gonna say I 1318 01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:02.599 agree with the atheists of the world. 1319 01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:08.519 But I can at least empathize a little bit, because 1320 01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:11.320 with all of the good things that are in this world, 1321 01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:13.760 all the good things that are created, there is equally, 1322 01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:16.520 if not more bad. Right Like, if you are it 1323 01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:18.479 depends are you looking at it glass alf or or 1324 01:08:18.520 --> 01:08:20.399 your glass half empty, because you can really make a 1325 01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:23.079 case for both of them, right like, And to say 1326 01:08:23.119 --> 01:08:25.279 that like, see, it's primarily good, but what about all 1327 01:08:25.319 --> 01:08:25.680 this evil. 1328 01:08:25.720 --> 01:08:28.760 We'll see it's primarily evil, but what about all this good? Right, 1329 01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:32.279 like you can kind of weigh it, you know, on 1330 01:08:32.359 --> 01:08:35.279 a scale like that. So no, no, I agree with that, 1331 01:08:35.439 --> 01:08:37.920 and and to that example, I am of the belief 1332 01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:43.079 that everything has to operate in harmonious balance. Right, So 1333 01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:45.800 like let's talk about the Ying Yang for instance. Right, 1334 01:08:46.119 --> 01:08:49.159 for equal parts good, there's equal parts evil. Now I'm 1335 01:08:49.199 --> 01:08:51.319 not saying that within every human being, and I'm not 1336 01:08:51.359 --> 01:08:55.279 saying that within the entire scope of whatever. But when 1337 01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:57.359 you look at it, for every good thing, there is 1338 01:08:57.479 --> 01:09:00.159 a bad thing that is there to offset it, and 1339 01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:02.560 vice versus. So with the glass half full versus half 1340 01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:08.000 empty conversation, the glass is at the halfway mark. It 1341 01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:10.520 is half full and half empty at the same time. 1342 01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:12.800 Both are true at the same time. I think that's 1343 01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:15.560 a lot more in line with how reality has to function. 1344 01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:17.720 And I don't like that, but I believe that that's 1345 01:09:17.800 --> 01:09:19.640 kind of the way it's like designed. 1346 01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:22.960 It's a hermetic principle of polarity, that's what it is. Like, 1347 01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:25.800 They're every single thing. You can't name one thing. 1348 01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:29.840 That is not on a polar scale. Okay, I guess, 1349 01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:32.199 but I mean even this is why it just tell 1350 01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:34.199 they say the same thing, though not just the Bible. 1351 01:09:34.359 --> 01:09:36.079 Other religions will say say, like you said the Ying 1352 01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:38.840 Yang earlier, that's that's not a hermetic principle, but they 1353 01:09:38.880 --> 01:09:42.840 have found that philosophical truth in themselves for sure. So 1354 01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.039 if we look at the nature of this reality as 1355 01:09:45.079 --> 01:09:50.039 being absolutely like polarities, right, like there's for every good, 1356 01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:52.119 there's a bad and vice versa, and a lot of 1357 01:09:52.159 --> 01:09:53.520 gray in between. Right. 1358 01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:56.319 If we look at the nature of reality as that 1359 01:09:56.520 --> 01:09:58.560 and all the different aspects of it, and then put 1360 01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:02.399 that even an overlay of all, right, what created us 1361 01:10:02.600 --> 01:10:04.800 it has to be. Therefore, if we're looking at the 1362 01:10:04.840 --> 01:10:07.399 fruit of whatever created us, some of it has to 1363 01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:09.000 be good, some of it has to be bad. 1364 01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:10.680 It is like, if you are. 1365 01:10:10.520 --> 01:10:14.319 Sticking to the principle of polarity, the nature of this 1366 01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:18.560 reality says there has to be a good and a bad. 1367 01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:21.119 And so this is where the Gnostics and the Cathars 1368 01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:25.760 believed in a dualistic dualistic gods, essentially that there was 1369 01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:27.640 a good God and a bad God. And and to 1370 01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:30.000 be honest, I don't know why that's so crazy, you know, 1371 01:10:30.079 --> 01:10:33.119 And the Bible talks about Jesus and the devil. It's 1372 01:10:33.159 --> 01:10:36.680 like that's the polarity, you know, like that's that's exactly 1373 01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:38.439 what you're talking about. But well, as soon as you 1374 01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:40.680 say that they're dualistic, it's like. 1375 01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:44.399 I don't know, no, no, I can understand the thought 1376 01:10:44.439 --> 01:10:47.720 process to get to the dualistic God scenario, especially like 1377 01:10:47.760 --> 01:10:49.960 you just said, if we're looking at creation and we're 1378 01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:52.279 testing the fruit, we see it. I get that. But 1379 01:10:52.359 --> 01:10:54.720 I'm also of the belief that free will is what 1380 01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:57.119 has led us to have the evil on this earth, 1381 01:10:57.319 --> 01:11:00.399 not the all divine and all good creator. But stand 1382 01:11:00.439 --> 01:11:02.800 where somebody would draw their conclusions to say that there 1383 01:11:02.840 --> 01:11:04.319 is a dualistic nature. I get it. 1384 01:11:04.439 --> 01:11:07.039 But even God himself, if we are to believe the 1385 01:11:07.079 --> 01:11:10.640 literature says, I am the light and I am the darkness, 1386 01:11:10.960 --> 01:11:13.760 like I create all things good and all things evil. 1387 01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:18.680 So God himself is a dualist or out of context? 1388 01:11:19.039 --> 01:11:21.159 No, it's not, I mean, what hold on, what do 1389 01:11:21.159 --> 01:11:22.079 you mean it's out of context? 1390 01:11:22.119 --> 01:11:25.000 In what way? He's saying that he created everything. He's 1391 01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:27.279 not saying that he's got part evil within him. He's 1392 01:11:27.279 --> 01:11:30.840 saying He created everything, even the evil shit. That's different. 1393 01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:35.920 The fruit of God uhuh is good and bad, right, 1394 01:11:36.039 --> 01:11:39.319 but he didn't make bad fruit. Free will turned the 1395 01:11:39.319 --> 01:11:41.840 fruit bad. And that's just my opinion. Also with that 1396 01:11:41.880 --> 01:11:43.479 being said, I understand. 1397 01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:48.239 The computer coder of all the nature of reality, every 1398 01:11:48.359 --> 01:11:53.319 single thing that was ever created, good and bad, was 1399 01:11:53.359 --> 01:11:54.399 God allegedly. 1400 01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:57.000 But the program has the ability to do what the 1401 01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:59.119 fuck it wants. Keep that in mind. It's not a 1402 01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:01.439 program where it's all slave systems that are gonna do 1403 01:12:01.479 --> 01:12:02.600 as they're told regardless. 1404 01:12:02.680 --> 01:12:04.600 But what no, I think I don't think you understand 1405 01:12:04.600 --> 01:12:07.880 what I'm trying to say. Like, if you're writing a code, 1406 01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:10.520 let's just say. 1407 01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:15.840 I don't know, you're you're bringing back fucking pac Man. Okay, 1408 01:12:16.479 --> 01:12:20.079 like pac Man. If you are the computer coder to 1409 01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:23.600 the game of pac Man, you're gonna like you're gonna 1410 01:12:23.600 --> 01:12:25.600 be like, all right, you know, let's let's let miss 1411 01:12:25.640 --> 01:12:27.560 pac Man eat all these meat meat meat, meat, meat 1412 01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:28.439 meat things. 1413 01:12:28.279 --> 01:12:31.640 Right to keep to allowed survival. Right, But then you 1414 01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:33.640 also had the little evil things what were they called 1415 01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:37.279 the ghosts, the little ghosts? Right, Like somebody put those 1416 01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:40.600 ghosts in the game. Yeah, somebody put that in there. 1417 01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:43.880 They didn't put octopuses, they didn't put cats in that game. 1418 01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:46.800 They didn't put dinosaurs. There was no dragons. They put 1419 01:12:46.920 --> 01:12:50.199 those ghosts specifically. It was coded that way. 1420 01:12:50.359 --> 01:12:53.239 It wasn't even possible to to come and come in 1421 01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:54.359 contact with the dragon. 1422 01:12:54.640 --> 01:12:56.680 It wasn't even possible. You're not gonna find Char's art 1423 01:12:56.720 --> 01:12:57.239 in pac Man. 1424 01:12:57.640 --> 01:12:58.840 You know what I'm saying, And that's what I'm trying 1425 01:12:58.880 --> 01:13:01.680 to say is the nature of this reality was coded 1426 01:13:01.720 --> 01:13:05.880 in such a way to literally like there is no 1427 01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:09.039 such thing as no bad, Like it had to have 1428 01:13:09.079 --> 01:13:13.640 been programmed as a polarization if everything was created as 1429 01:13:13.760 --> 01:13:17.279 only good can be coded into it. But like you're 1430 01:13:17.279 --> 01:13:19.359 going to allow that good to be bad. It's like, 1431 01:13:19.880 --> 01:13:23.640 if you allow something to be bad, you have to say, 1432 01:13:23.680 --> 01:13:26.920 all right, well, in what way are we going to say? Like, 1433 01:13:27.479 --> 01:13:30.600 in what way can we make them bad? You know, 1434 01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:34.000 whenever somebody turns bad, they don't start shooting fireballs out 1435 01:13:34.039 --> 01:13:36.600 of their chest. You know, Like what is bad? What 1436 01:13:36.720 --> 01:13:39.439 is allowed for bad? What does the coding allow for 1437 01:13:39.560 --> 01:13:40.359 bad behavior? 1438 01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:43.199 Right? Because and it's not all you can't say that, 1439 01:13:43.520 --> 01:13:46.000 you know, just free will is the only thing that 1440 01:13:46.479 --> 01:13:51.279 is determined. What bad is cancer? Did people create cancer? Yes? 1441 01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:53.319 Did people create. 1442 01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:58.000 Look at nature? I mean it's cyclical. I mean, trees live, 1443 01:13:58.039 --> 01:13:59.000 they thrive, they die. 1444 01:13:59.239 --> 01:14:03.000 Right, there is something good is bad? Well, it's a 1445 01:14:03.039 --> 01:14:06.960 philosophical you know belief at that point that is an inevitability. Bro, 1446 01:14:07.039 --> 01:14:09.279 That's that's That's what I'm point like to say that 1447 01:14:09.520 --> 01:14:13.079 free will created this whole existence I believe is good. 1448 01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:17.319 But there is also the free will for the individuals 1449 01:14:17.359 --> 01:14:19.239 to do what they want with it. You can choose 1450 01:14:19.279 --> 01:14:21.359 to do good, you can choose to do bad, and 1451 01:14:21.359 --> 01:14:24.439 when given the opportunity, humans will always make the wrong choice. 1452 01:14:24.479 --> 01:14:26.439 And that's been proven throughout the course of history. 1453 01:14:26.960 --> 01:14:30.640 Interesting, So it is only humans that bring out the bad. 1454 01:14:30.680 --> 01:14:32.359 Everything else is good? Is that what you're trying to say? 1455 01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:35.479 All other animals in nature rely on instinct. They don't 1456 01:14:35.479 --> 01:14:37.840 have thought forms, right, not how that goes, but. 1457 01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:39.600 The coding of the animals. 1458 01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:44.079 Animals have disease animals, I mean there are there are pestilences, 1459 01:14:44.199 --> 01:14:47.159 there are sicknesses, there are there are diseases that can 1460 01:14:47.199 --> 01:14:50.439 be transferred to humans allegedly, right, Like think about rabies, 1461 01:14:50.760 --> 01:14:51.319 you know, I. 1462 01:14:51.239 --> 01:14:56.000 Think about the black plague. Yeah, who created rabies. Honestly, 1463 01:14:56.079 --> 01:15:00.199 I don't know. I believe that was a mutated gene. Okay, 1464 01:15:00.279 --> 01:15:02.119 so I don't know that for a fact, but I 1465 01:15:02.159 --> 01:15:04.359 think so. What I'm saying is is that there is 1466 01:15:04.399 --> 01:15:07.479 fucked up shit in nature, and it wasn't determined strictly 1467 01:15:07.520 --> 01:15:10.840 because of free will. No. But I mean, even look 1468 01:15:10.880 --> 01:15:13.600 at when the Europeans first made their way to North America. 1469 01:15:13.680 --> 01:15:17.760 The North Americans had almost no level of sickness ever, 1470 01:15:18.319 --> 01:15:20.760 and they have been operating in this way harmoniously with 1471 01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:24.159 nature for thousands of years. The first time that white 1472 01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:29.199 dudes landed in America, they gave them smallpox and shit. Right, 1473 01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:31.840 So that's my point. When left alone nature just doing 1474 01:15:31.920 --> 01:15:35.319 nature shit, everything will level out the correct way because 1475 01:15:35.399 --> 01:15:43.800 nature is good. Does free will cause stillborn deaths? Don't 1476 01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:45.640 really know. I think that that just might be one 1477 01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:46.279 of those things. 1478 01:15:46.279 --> 01:15:47.960 But again, I don't see death as a negative and 1479 01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:49.439 can be one of those things we're talking about. The 1480 01:15:49.479 --> 01:15:51.880 creator of everything would have had to have implemented that 1481 01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:53.720 code into the nature of this reality. 1482 01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:58.720 Okay, Sure, stillborn babies are a thing, right, Miscarriages are 1483 01:15:58.760 --> 01:16:02.159 a thing, one hundred percent, But also again, death is 1484 01:16:02.199 --> 01:16:04.439 not a negative thing. It shouldn't be viewed as such. 1485 01:16:04.520 --> 01:16:06.520 See that's what I'm saying. Then you can't describe what 1486 01:16:06.600 --> 01:16:10.600 evil is. No, no evil is doing harm to somebody 1487 01:16:10.720 --> 01:16:13.039 or something. The most horrible thing you can do is 1488 01:16:13.119 --> 01:16:16.960 kill something. Oh okay, hand stillborn is not killing something. 1489 01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:18.720 That is something dying When it's it's like saying a 1490 01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:21.560 tree dying in the woods that nobody killed it, No 1491 01:16:21.720 --> 01:16:22.479 thing killed it. 1492 01:16:22.479 --> 01:16:24.720 It died of old age. That's a different thing. Stillborn 1493 01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:25.880 is a natural occurrence. 1494 01:16:25.960 --> 01:16:29.840 If this reality is a matrix, it is a code. 1495 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.399 And if that and this is just a very fucking 1496 01:16:32.399 --> 01:16:35.399 stupid example of trying under trying to understand how God 1497 01:16:35.479 --> 01:16:40.800 created things. Right if if if God created everything through 1498 01:16:41.119 --> 01:16:43.520 the lens of coding. And that's why I even bring 1499 01:16:43.600 --> 01:16:46.039 up the matrix, right if we're if we're looking at 1500 01:16:46.159 --> 01:16:49.680 like he constructed it bit by bit, right like pixel 1501 01:16:49.720 --> 01:16:51.640 by pixel, let's just look at it in that way. 1502 01:16:52.279 --> 01:16:53.760 You you would have. 1503 01:16:53.800 --> 01:16:58.640 To say then that he created the possibility of stillborn death, 1504 01:16:58.840 --> 01:17:02.920 He created the possibility of childhood cancer, created the possibility 1505 01:17:03.239 --> 01:17:05.199 of all of these negative things. We can go we 1506 01:17:05.239 --> 01:17:07.239 can go down the list. You can't say that it 1507 01:17:07.319 --> 01:17:09.680 was all brought upon by human will. But that is 1508 01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:12.600 where the argument is is because you can say, well, 1509 01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:14.399 that's just one of those things, that's just one of 1510 01:17:14.399 --> 01:17:16.560 it can't be one of those things. You're talking about 1511 01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:19.560 the creator of every pixel of this reality. 1512 01:17:19.720 --> 01:17:22.199 Right, I get that, But then there's also again, not 1513 01:17:22.239 --> 01:17:24.840 only is there free will, but there is certain things 1514 01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:26.920 that are chalked up to just what it is. 1515 01:17:28.039 --> 01:17:30.079 There is no such thing as what it is in 1516 01:17:30.119 --> 01:17:32.760 God's eyes. And dude, you're talking about the nature of 1517 01:17:32.840 --> 01:17:35.520 you're talking about the fucking nature of this reality. 1518 01:17:35.840 --> 01:17:38.600 God created everything. There is nothing that God didn't create. 1519 01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:41.119 Would you agree? Sure? Sure, agreed? Agreed. 1520 01:17:41.399 --> 01:17:44.039 So he's the coder, which means he had to put 1521 01:17:44.319 --> 01:17:46.760 code in that would allow for good, code end, that 1522 01:17:46.800 --> 01:17:47.680 would allow for bad. 1523 01:17:47.760 --> 01:17:50.560 Yeah, your name, he put in code to make the 1524 01:17:50.640 --> 01:17:51.520 decision on our own. 1525 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:55.000 Yes, oh my god, there's just And this is why 1526 01:17:55.039 --> 01:17:59.640 it's it's impossible because and you can't have like a 1527 01:17:59.800 --> 01:18:02.600 like a logical conversation whenever it comes to this kind 1528 01:18:02.600 --> 01:18:06.039 of stuff with most religious people, because because there is 1529 01:18:06.079 --> 01:18:08.720 no such thing as it is what it is, it 1530 01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:09.199 can't be. 1531 01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:12.439 Why why not? Why can that not be? 1532 01:18:12.960 --> 01:18:15.600 If you were God and you created everything, and you 1533 01:18:15.640 --> 01:18:17.560 can create your entire little reality. 1534 01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:22.439 Let's just say your your your SIMS world. Sure, sure, okay, 1535 01:18:22.479 --> 01:18:24.760 now let's do the SIMS world, not even all the 1536 01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:27.399 characters the free will to choose and do whatever they want. 1537 01:18:27.760 --> 01:18:31.039 Yeah, you can't even go with the Sims because that 1538 01:18:31.079 --> 01:18:33.960 would say that you were the All right, are you 1539 01:18:34.079 --> 01:18:36.399 the first person to ever create the video game called 1540 01:18:36.439 --> 01:18:36.840 the Sims. 1541 01:18:36.840 --> 01:18:38.880 You can look at it from that way. Sure, fine, 1542 01:18:38.920 --> 01:18:41.000 Well I'm not even saying that you're playing the game. 1543 01:18:41.039 --> 01:18:43.359 I'm saying you created the fucking game and then you 1544 01:18:43.399 --> 01:18:45.960 continue to play it. Now you're the programmer, and you 1545 01:18:46.119 --> 01:18:47.960 never made it to public. It is just something that 1546 01:18:48.119 --> 01:18:50.000 it's a project that you're working on at your house, 1547 01:18:50.079 --> 01:18:51.560 you know what I mean. Whatever, And it's not even 1548 01:18:51.560 --> 01:18:53.359 called the Sims. It's called something else. But just for 1549 01:18:53.399 --> 01:18:56.279 the sake of argument, let's just put it under that content. 1550 01:18:56.359 --> 01:18:59.720 You're the computer programmer of the Sims and so you 1551 01:18:59.760 --> 01:19:02.880 got But you know Henry and Susan, and you know 1552 01:19:02.920 --> 01:19:05.960 they're they're getting busy, they're trying to pro create, they're 1553 01:19:05.960 --> 01:19:07.000 trying to build a family. 1554 01:19:07.079 --> 01:19:10.039 Henry goes to work, you know, Susan stays home. Takes 1555 01:19:10.039 --> 01:19:11.800 care of the kids, tends to the garden, tends to 1556 01:19:11.840 --> 01:19:13.720 the kitchen, whatever, traditional you know. 1557 01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:16.680 Household values or whatever. Why why are they doing that? 1558 01:19:17.239 --> 01:19:20.199 Why are they doing that? If you give them free will? 1559 01:19:20.279 --> 01:19:22.760 Keep that in mind, you're not just programming mindless slaves 1560 01:19:22.760 --> 01:19:24.439 to do as you command. And the SAME's example is 1561 01:19:24.479 --> 01:19:26.840 a little contrived because everything that the characters do you 1562 01:19:26.880 --> 01:19:30.000 tell them to do. Right, So keep in mind, you 1563 01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:32.439 create the world, you create the characters, and then you 1564 01:19:32.479 --> 01:19:34.039 give them free will to do what they want, and 1565 01:19:34.079 --> 01:19:36.760 you walk away. You don't have them, no, no, no, no, no no, 1566 01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:39.239 you don't walk away kids and all these things. No, no, no. 1567 01:19:39.399 --> 01:19:41.439 For this example, you let the system run. 1568 01:19:42.239 --> 01:19:46.319 Okay, Yeah, that's perfect. I'm so fucking happy you went there. Now, 1569 01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:49.159 let's just say that Henry and Susan and their kids, 1570 01:19:49.159 --> 01:19:52.159 they're they're enjoying their day. Maybe it's a weekend. You know, 1571 01:19:52.279 --> 01:19:55.520 Dad's watching the Steelers whip some Bengals ass tonight. Right, 1572 01:19:55.600 --> 01:19:57.880 Let's just say that Dad's sitting at home watching TV, 1573 01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:02.720 kids are playing video games, crocheg whatever, right, just enjoying 1574 01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:04.079 a regular sunday in the. 1575 01:20:04.000 --> 01:20:06.479 Fucking middle of April. For example, Well, I guess I 1576 01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:09.079 know their free will, they've choose to do these things. 1577 01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:12.239 I'm with you, okay, And against their free will, a 1578 01:20:12.319 --> 01:20:16.359 fucking asteroid strikes down on their house and completely fucking 1579 01:20:16.439 --> 01:20:19.760 annihilates everything that they ever thought they knew. They ceased 1580 01:20:19.840 --> 01:20:24.640 to exist. What they were once were bits of pixels 1581 01:20:24.680 --> 01:20:27.279 on a screen, and now they have disintegrated and nobody 1582 01:20:27.319 --> 01:20:29.560 even has a memory of them, right, right, So that's 1583 01:20:29.600 --> 01:20:33.680 my fault, is the programmer for putting that in. Yeah, 1584 01:20:33.840 --> 01:20:37.119 so it's because of some sort of divine justice that 1585 01:20:37.319 --> 01:20:39.920 the programmer decided that these characters need to be gone. 1586 01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:42.039 And like, the only way that that could have happened 1587 01:20:42.079 --> 01:20:44.720 is because he said so. And yes, I understand that 1588 01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:46.720 he is the one that creates and makes everything happen. 1589 01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:49.199 But at the same time, there might be a reason 1590 01:20:49.239 --> 01:20:50.920 for that to happen that we don't see it on 1591 01:20:51.000 --> 01:20:53.520 the onset. This is what I'm trying to say you, Like, 1592 01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:57.560 there's all like God always intends for good, right is 1593 01:20:57.560 --> 01:21:00.920 that what you're trying to say? I believe so that 1594 01:21:01.039 --> 01:21:04.399 good would inherently be out of the material realm, like 1595 01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:08.199 for the betterment of your life after this physical incarnation 1596 01:21:08.359 --> 01:21:11.239 is what you're trying to say, and I believe also 1597 01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:13.560 for the betterment of your life in this physical carnation. Yes, 1598 01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:15.680 at that point it's like Pascal's wager. 1599 01:21:16.640 --> 01:21:20.520 What I'm trying to say is the Cathars weren't inherently crazy. 1600 01:21:20.560 --> 01:21:24.279 Whenever they said that there is evil here. There has 1601 01:21:24.359 --> 01:21:27.199 to be there has to be dualism. Yeah, sure there's good, 1602 01:21:27.720 --> 01:21:30.640 but there is evil here. And in God's realm and 1603 01:21:30.760 --> 01:21:35.399 perfection allegedly Heaven, whatever God's kingdom or whatever. 1604 01:21:35.399 --> 01:21:40.399 That can't happen. It's impossible, there is believe, so. 1605 01:21:42.159 --> 01:21:44.720 Tell them that's That's what I'm saying, is that they 1606 01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:47.720 believe that this couldn't be the real nature of reality. 1607 01:21:47.920 --> 01:21:52.359 This had to be the dominion of some psychopathic, fucking, crazy, 1608 01:21:52.520 --> 01:21:55.560 evil God that allowed for all of these terrible things. 1609 01:21:55.600 --> 01:21:58.039 And yes, humans do have somewhat of a free will, 1610 01:21:58.079 --> 01:22:00.600 and yeah, we we do certain things, but the nature 1611 01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:02.720 of this reality allows it, which means that it was 1612 01:22:02.760 --> 01:22:06.319 coded into this reality, which means that God allowed these 1613 01:22:06.399 --> 01:22:09.960 evil things to happen, even against their will. So therefore 1614 01:22:10.039 --> 01:22:12.279 the God of the Bible has to be some kind 1615 01:22:12.319 --> 01:22:15.159 of sick, demented, twisted individual that just wants to see 1616 01:22:15.159 --> 01:22:17.199 people suffer, and wants to see people sick, and wants 1617 01:22:17.239 --> 01:22:20.479 to see people go through terrible things. And yet the 1618 01:22:20.479 --> 01:22:23.119 Catholic Church is the ones that's saying that that is 1619 01:22:23.119 --> 01:22:24.960 the good God. Clearly it has to be the good God. 1620 01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:29.399 Cathars are like yo, the good God, the all loving God. Whatever, 1621 01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:34.800 there's no way. And so they believe that the actual God. 1622 01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:34.880 That the. 1623 01:22:36.720 --> 01:22:39.920 Catholic Church was worshiping had to have been the bad God, 1624 01:22:39.960 --> 01:22:42.640 because the bad God ordered crusades. 1625 01:22:42.840 --> 01:22:45.239 The bad God said, we got to kill all these people, 1626 01:22:45.439 --> 01:22:48.720 the bad godden order that mankind ordered Christ. 1627 01:22:48.880 --> 01:22:52.239 Oh, the pope said it, so it came directly from God, 1628 01:22:52.720 --> 01:22:53.199 you know what I mean? 1629 01:22:53.279 --> 01:22:56.760 Right? And also Moses said it, so it came directly 1630 01:22:56.800 --> 01:22:58.680 from God. If it wasn't for Moses, we wouldn't even 1631 01:22:58.720 --> 01:23:00.880 we wouldn't have anything of the Old Testament, and therefore 1632 01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:03.159 there would have been no creation of the Bible in 1633 01:23:03.199 --> 01:23:06.159 the first place. Right. So you have to rely at 1634 01:23:06.159 --> 01:23:08.920 this point on the people that are carrying out the 1635 01:23:08.960 --> 01:23:12.439 fucking negative atrocities. No, dude, Once again, we have talked 1636 01:23:12.439 --> 01:23:15.159 about this, how many times that people take away Christianity. 1637 01:23:15.159 --> 01:23:19.239 For a second, people have used their religion to justify 1638 01:23:19.439 --> 01:23:22.520 horrible shit. That doesn't mean that they're speaking on behalf 1639 01:23:22.560 --> 01:23:25.319 of their religion or on behalf of their deities. They 1640 01:23:25.359 --> 01:23:28.239 think that they are, but they are bastardizing and conflating 1641 01:23:28.279 --> 01:23:29.319 and twisting the word. 1642 01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:33.439 Yeah, and that's what most people would say about Moses, 1643 01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:35.600 is my point, dude. 1644 01:23:35.640 --> 01:23:38.920 The Moses thing that oral tradition predates Moses. He's the 1645 01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:41.359 first person to put pen to paper, but the stories 1646 01:23:41.359 --> 01:23:44.359 of the Torah predate him by a long shot. Well, 1647 01:23:44.359 --> 01:23:47.359 that's where all the stories allegedly come from is through Moses. 1648 01:23:48.199 --> 01:23:50.399 That again, he's the first person to write them down. 1649 01:23:50.600 --> 01:23:54.520 The stories don't come from Moses. Well, hold on, the 1650 01:23:54.680 --> 01:23:58.159 oral traditions predate him by thousands of years, so it couldn't. 1651 01:23:58.279 --> 01:24:01.359 So you're trying to tell me that the stories of 1652 01:24:01.399 --> 01:24:04.920 the Bible were not told to Moses, that Moses was 1653 01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:08.119 told all of these other stories by somebody else not 1654 01:24:08.199 --> 01:24:08.600 named God. 1655 01:24:08.720 --> 01:24:11.239 Is saying no, no, no, I'm saying that these stories that 1656 01:24:11.319 --> 01:24:14.159 he wrote down were divinely inspired and told to him 1657 01:24:14.199 --> 01:24:16.439 by God. But he was also this These stories are 1658 01:24:16.439 --> 01:24:20.600 also told to his people for a long time. The 1659 01:24:20.600 --> 01:24:24.399 the Hebrews that were enslaved in Egypt believed the stories 1660 01:24:24.399 --> 01:24:27.520 of the Torah before Moses was ever born. They didn't 1661 01:24:27.520 --> 01:24:29.079 write it down. It was an oral tradition. 1662 01:24:29.159 --> 01:24:32.279 A lot of mental gymnastics with that one. But look, 1663 01:24:32.439 --> 01:24:34.640 can we can debate this back and forth. My point 1664 01:24:34.720 --> 01:24:38.239 being that the Cathars, I'm not even saying that they're right, 1665 01:24:38.640 --> 01:24:41.640 but to say that they that they deserved a genocide 1666 01:24:41.800 --> 01:24:43.239 is apparently wrong to right. 1667 01:24:43.319 --> 01:24:45.079 I mean, I don't believe they deserve that at all. 1668 01:24:45.399 --> 01:24:47.239 Regardless of what you believe. I don't believe you should 1669 01:24:47.239 --> 01:24:48.720 be genocided for your beliefs. 1670 01:24:48.760 --> 01:24:53.319 That's that's preposterous, right, right, unless you want death of 1671 01:24:53.359 --> 01:24:56.279 others who don't believe in what you believe then, which 1672 01:24:56.720 --> 01:25:00.600 I'm not saying that you have the right to not 1673 01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:04.600 necessarily like those kind of people. You've got a right 1674 01:25:04.640 --> 01:25:06.199 to defend yourself, for sure. 1675 01:25:06.239 --> 01:25:07.680 If you've got a group of people that are out 1676 01:25:07.760 --> 01:25:09.439 to kill you, you have a right to take up 1677 01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:13.000 arms and defend your life, for sure. But you also 1678 01:25:13.039 --> 01:25:16.640 shouldn't go and lead a massive slaughter in genocide on 1679 01:25:16.680 --> 01:25:18.680 a group because they have a different ideology than you. 1680 01:25:18.720 --> 01:25:21.600 That's fucking ridiculous, I agree. 1681 01:25:22.520 --> 01:25:26.720 So just to carry on. The Cathars were also gnostics. 1682 01:25:26.760 --> 01:25:30.560 Gnostics believed and still believed the divine knowledge is granted 1683 01:25:30.640 --> 01:25:33.960 only to an inner elite. Like the esoteric knowledge of 1684 01:25:34.000 --> 01:25:37.399 the Pythagoreans, the inner elite undertook a long period of 1685 01:25:37.479 --> 01:25:42.640 training before becoming before becoming being formally accepted as members 1686 01:25:42.640 --> 01:25:46.319 of the elite, and thereafter leading severely ascetic lives. Lives 1687 01:25:46.399 --> 01:25:49.800 rather there are lives of meditation, fasting, hardship, poverty, and 1688 01:25:49.840 --> 01:25:52.920 good works, matched exactly the highest ideals of Catholic and 1689 01:25:53.119 --> 01:25:56.640 Orthodox hermits, monks, and friars. The cath are elect are 1690 01:25:56.680 --> 01:26:02.000 now popularly known uh parfits par looks like parfas. 1691 01:26:02.279 --> 01:26:04.720 Parfas, and the females were like parfay it's or. 1692 01:26:04.720 --> 01:26:09.119 Something yeah, otherwise known as perfects, though they never referred 1693 01:26:09.119 --> 01:26:13.640 to themselves as such. They also believed in metem psychosis, 1694 01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:18.319 or the transmigration of souls has had the Pythagorans. In 1695 01:26:18.359 --> 01:26:22.479 other words, both Pythagorans and Cathars believed not only in reincarnation, 1696 01:26:22.760 --> 01:26:25.560 but in the rebirth of the souls, in the rebirth 1697 01:26:25.600 --> 01:26:28.319 of the soul and animals as well as humans, and 1698 01:26:28.439 --> 01:26:31.319 both refrained from eating meat for exactly this reason. They 1699 01:26:31.319 --> 01:26:35.600 were like vegetarians, although they were also episcatalians because they 1700 01:26:35.640 --> 01:26:37.399 eat fish, which is interesting. 1701 01:26:37.520 --> 01:26:40.680 Well, they said that the fish didn't have souls, Yeah, 1702 01:26:40.720 --> 01:26:43.439 which is weird. The Hebrews believe that too. Somehow fish 1703 01:26:43.479 --> 01:26:46.880 were not classified as meat in the like Hebrew tradition. 1704 01:26:47.159 --> 01:26:49.239 So it's interesting how you could see that certain Gnostic 1705 01:26:49.239 --> 01:26:50.920 beliefs kind of took a little bit from here and 1706 01:26:50.920 --> 01:26:53.760 took a little bit from there. It's wild to look at. Really. 1707 01:26:53.880 --> 01:26:57.279 I think all beliefs, whether they want to, you know, 1708 01:26:57.439 --> 01:26:59.680 admit it or not, have pulled from somewhere. 1709 01:27:00.399 --> 01:27:02.239 But then you also look at how the Catholics will 1710 01:27:02.239 --> 01:27:07.720 eat fish during lint. Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting one. 1711 01:27:08.119 --> 01:27:10.199 Some people will actually say that that is based upon 1712 01:27:10.319 --> 01:27:11.520 the Cathars practice. 1713 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:13.279 I can't say, I can't confirm or deny. 1714 01:27:13.399 --> 01:27:15.000 I don't know what came first, chicken or the egg 1715 01:27:15.079 --> 01:27:16.880 kind of situation, but some people believe that. 1716 01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:19.560 Some most of would say that it goes back to 1717 01:27:19.560 --> 01:27:22.159 the Hebrew tradition of fish not being meat. 1718 01:27:23.479 --> 01:27:27.880 Well, it says Cathars were also universalists, which means that 1719 01:27:27.920 --> 01:27:31.159 they believed in the ultimate salvation of all human beings. 1720 01:27:31.359 --> 01:27:34.039 Here's an account of how they saw themselves, recorded in 1721 01:27:34.159 --> 01:27:40.880 eleven forty three by Eberwind, prior of the primon strettin Singhian. 1722 01:27:41.239 --> 01:27:44.199 I don't know these are hardburts, it says of themselves. 1723 01:27:44.239 --> 01:27:46.199 They say, we are the poor of Christ. 1724 01:27:46.319 --> 01:27:49.800 We who have no fixed abode and flee from city 1725 01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:53.239 to city like sheep amidst wolves, are persecuted, as were 1726 01:27:53.279 --> 01:27:56.039 the apostles and the martyrs, despite the fact that we 1727 01:27:56.199 --> 01:28:00.840 lead a most strict and holy life, person veering day 1728 01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:06.119 and night in fast and abstinence, in prayers, and in labor, 1729 01:28:06.159 --> 01:28:08.560 from which we seek only the necessities of life. 1730 01:28:08.640 --> 01:28:11.159 We undergo this because we are not of this world. 1731 01:28:11.359 --> 01:28:13.760 But you, lovers of this world, have peace with it, 1732 01:28:13.800 --> 01:28:17.479 because you are of the world. False apostles, who pollute 1733 01:28:17.479 --> 01:28:19.920 the word of Christ, who seek after their own interests, 1734 01:28:19.960 --> 01:28:22.760 have led you and your fathers astray from the true path. 1735 01:28:23.000 --> 01:28:29.359 We and our fathers of Apostolic Apolistic, Amostolic Apostolic descent, 1736 01:28:29.800 --> 01:28:32.399 have continued in the grace of God, and shall so 1737 01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:35.880 remain to the end of time to distinguish between us and. 1738 01:28:38.119 --> 01:28:38.439 Christ. 1739 01:28:38.479 --> 01:28:41.439 Said by their fruits you shall know them. Our fruits 1740 01:28:41.479 --> 01:28:43.720 consist in following the footsteps of Christ. 1741 01:28:43.760 --> 01:28:48.079 So that was their beliefs, right, And also I'm glad 1742 01:28:48.119 --> 01:28:52.159 they also said abstinence, Like they they hated sex, and 1743 01:28:52.199 --> 01:28:54.800 that's another thing that they thought. Any animal that you're 1744 01:28:54.840 --> 01:28:57.439 eating that was formed from some sort of a sexual 1745 01:28:58.640 --> 01:29:02.800 contact by even animals, is inherently evil, which is why 1746 01:29:02.840 --> 01:29:05.720 they also didn't eat meat. It wasn't because of like 1747 01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:07.880 a do no harm kind of thing. It's like, why 1748 01:29:07.880 --> 01:29:10.279 would I eat beef? You know how cows are made 1749 01:29:10.840 --> 01:29:12.520 cow sex, dude, Not. 1750 01:29:14.119 --> 01:29:17.760 Because they were of this world. And that was the 1751 01:29:17.840 --> 01:29:20.720 idea that you didn't want to eat something that pro 1752 01:29:20.880 --> 01:29:25.640 created to bring people and bring animals and bring souls 1753 01:29:25.720 --> 01:29:27.840 into the shackles of this incarnation. 1754 01:29:28.119 --> 01:29:30.479 That was just like a firm belief and pretty interesting, 1755 01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:35.359 which is that's crazy because plants have sex. That's how 1756 01:29:35.399 --> 01:29:38.720 plant husbandry is a thing. That's how pollination takes place. 1757 01:29:39.039 --> 01:29:42.399 So even eating plants means you're eating something that procreated 1758 01:29:42.479 --> 01:29:44.840 by sexual intercourse in some way, shape or form. 1759 01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:49.319 But yep, yeah, I mean that's I don't know, that's 1760 01:29:49.439 --> 01:29:52.880 that was just their beliefs. So the basic tenets were 1761 01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:55.880 that Cathars were gnostic dualist Christians, who claimed to retain 1762 01:29:55.960 --> 01:29:58.600 many of the beliefs and practices of the early Christian Church. 1763 01:29:58.840 --> 01:30:01.800 All of their beliefs stem from logical deductions from a 1764 01:30:01.840 --> 01:30:06.960 combination of these three fundamental beliefs gnosticism, dualism, and Christianity. 1765 01:30:07.079 --> 01:30:12.319 So those were the core tenets that merged altogether. For example, 1766 01:30:12.359 --> 01:30:16.239 they displayed contempt for everything material, a position with enormous 1767 01:30:16.319 --> 01:30:19.279 ramifications based on their dualism. We don't have to get 1768 01:30:19.319 --> 01:30:24.920 into their dualism. Everything is dualistic ideology, but that it 1769 01:30:24.960 --> 01:30:30.000 gets into gnosissism. 1770 01:30:27.880 --> 01:30:30.560 Which which is dualist, which is dualist. 1771 01:30:30.680 --> 01:30:33.960 Yeah, inherently it's all harmeticism, you really think about it. 1772 01:30:35.239 --> 01:30:38.640 So the implications, Oh, this is interesting. So the implications 1773 01:30:38.680 --> 01:30:41.079 of Cathar beliefs. It says, the idea that human beings 1774 01:30:41.079 --> 01:30:43.600 were sparks of light trapped in tunics of material flesh 1775 01:30:43.640 --> 01:30:47.600 had a number of logical consequences. Procreative sex was bad, 1776 01:30:47.920 --> 01:30:51.159 since conception would result in another soul being trapped. For 1777 01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:54.520 this reason, normal sex between man and wife was as 1778 01:30:54.600 --> 01:30:59.000 bad as any other procreative sex. Marriage was worthless, while 1779 01:30:59.079 --> 01:31:01.520 contraception is regarded with approval. 1780 01:31:02.479 --> 01:31:05.520 Yeah, which the Catholics have always been and are still 1781 01:31:05.600 --> 01:31:11.840 are vehemently against contraception right right, which unfortunate because but 1782 01:31:11.920 --> 01:31:14.119 I mean, the Bible says to be fruitful and multiply. 1783 01:31:14.840 --> 01:31:17.439 So again, this is another example of them going completely 1784 01:31:17.479 --> 01:31:21.880 against Christianity in its very biggest core tenant of having 1785 01:31:21.920 --> 01:31:22.800 a bunch of children. 1786 01:31:22.840 --> 01:31:25.680 Does that ever say when you should stop multiplying? No, 1787 01:31:26.520 --> 01:31:29.359 so you should just multiply until your death pretty much. 1788 01:31:30.680 --> 01:31:31.760 Wow, that's interesting. 1789 01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:34.439 Why would you have you know, women get to a 1790 01:31:34.439 --> 01:31:36.119 certain point where they can have kids anymore. 1791 01:31:36.880 --> 01:31:39.319 That's God's plan, dude. He didn't say shit about that. 1792 01:31:39.560 --> 01:31:42.039 He's saying, be fruitful and multiplying, have tons of babies, 1793 01:31:42.079 --> 01:31:44.239 get married. The Cathars are. 1794 01:31:44.119 --> 01:31:48.479 Like, no, you so, I mean, but even still, you 1795 01:31:48.520 --> 01:31:50.600 can't say the one hundred percent agree with that because 1796 01:31:50.760 --> 01:31:52.000 you don't want to have You don't be You don't 1797 01:31:52.039 --> 01:31:53.840 want to be walking around with fucking twenty kids, do you. 1798 01:31:54.600 --> 01:31:56.439 Oh no, I've got plenty. I'm good on that. But 1799 01:31:56.520 --> 01:31:58.119 I mean, at the same time, that doesn't mean that 1800 01:31:58.119 --> 01:32:00.279 I'm spitting in the face of God by not having 1801 01:32:00.359 --> 01:32:02.920 twenty kids. He's also saying that if you live a 1802 01:32:02.960 --> 01:32:04.640 life and don't have kids, and like, what the fuck 1803 01:32:04.720 --> 01:32:05.680 was your point of your life? 1804 01:32:05.720 --> 01:32:08.760 Then well, that's what I'm trying to say, Like, if 1805 01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:12.199 we are to hold that as like an absolute truthful statement, 1806 01:32:12.239 --> 01:32:14.800 then anything outside of that would be against him. Right, 1807 01:32:14.840 --> 01:32:17.399 would you disagree with that that it goes to give. 1808 01:32:17.279 --> 01:32:19.600 A number designation of like a point to where you 1809 01:32:19.600 --> 01:32:22.239 should stop. But he's basically saying, they're like, no, you 1810 01:32:22.399 --> 01:32:25.640 need to have children, and it's all about leaving a legacy. 1811 01:32:25.319 --> 01:32:28.560 Right, and so therefore, if you are ever having sex 1812 01:32:28.640 --> 01:32:32.199 that is not pro creative, you're defeating the whole purpose, right. 1813 01:32:33.359 --> 01:32:35.119 I guess, Yeah, that's what the Catholics believe. 1814 01:32:35.159 --> 01:32:38.600 So anybody, So anybody that pulls out right pretty bad, 1815 01:32:38.680 --> 01:32:39.760 anybody that masturbates. 1816 01:32:39.800 --> 01:32:42.159 Actually, there was we talked about it in the Old 1817 01:32:42.159 --> 01:32:45.279 Testament Oman I think his name was, who pulled. 1818 01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:47.600 Out and was cursed for it, right, right, And they 1819 01:32:47.640 --> 01:32:50.039 actually said, you know, they believed in old times that 1820 01:32:50.119 --> 01:32:53.840 if you uh, if the masturbation was worse than rape, 1821 01:32:54.039 --> 01:32:57.279 that's how much they believed in conceiving. 1822 01:32:58.119 --> 01:33:01.279 Yeah, you know, so I agree with that principle, but 1823 01:33:01.359 --> 01:33:03.960 that's you know, that's my own personal belief. It's not 1824 01:33:04.039 --> 01:33:06.119 based in anything other than what I find Well, and 1825 01:33:06.159 --> 01:33:06.720 that's true. 1826 01:33:06.840 --> 01:33:09.960 That's the that's the you know, kind of weird place 1827 01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:13.399 that we're in because how far like it's almost like 1828 01:33:13.479 --> 01:33:16.640 absolutes are always extreme ideologies. 1829 01:33:16.079 --> 01:33:19.800 Right, But because of that, they also believe that. And 1830 01:33:19.840 --> 01:33:22.680 this is an example of that being used in a 1831 01:33:22.800 --> 01:33:28.439 very negative way. Okay, very very much human beings using 1832 01:33:29.359 --> 01:33:33.279 misquoted scripture to justify the worst of human behavior. So, 1833 01:33:34.119 --> 01:33:37.039 especially in the early you know, seventeen hundreds, if a 1834 01:33:37.079 --> 01:33:41.000 woman was raped and conceived a baby, clearly she needs 1835 01:33:41.039 --> 01:33:44.239 to marry her rapist because God wanted this baby. Therefore 1836 01:33:44.279 --> 01:33:47.359 he obviously wanted this union. Otherwise she wouldn't have conceived 1837 01:33:48.600 --> 01:33:52.720 Thank God. Fuck think God should have probably clarified on that. No, 1838 01:33:52.880 --> 01:33:55.279 it absolutely does not say that rape is a good 1839 01:33:55.279 --> 01:33:57.640 thing in the Bible. But that's my point. They will 1840 01:33:57.640 --> 01:34:00.479 take things and misquote it and use it to justify 1841 01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:03.119 the absolute worst of human behavior. Oh. 1842 01:34:03.199 --> 01:34:05.119 So we were talking about the fish earlier. This is 1843 01:34:05.479 --> 01:34:07.680 this is why we're about to read it. It says the 1844 01:34:08.239 --> 01:34:11.239 less one had to do with evil i e. Material things, 1845 01:34:11.479 --> 01:34:15.760 the better. Eating animals or animal products was particularly abhorred. 1846 01:34:16.119 --> 01:34:18.680 Though fish were allowed, and the reason why they were 1847 01:34:18.680 --> 01:34:21.119 allowed is that it says, as they were thought to 1848 01:34:21.199 --> 01:34:25.159 reproduce a sexually, and we're not therefore able to imprison 1849 01:34:25.199 --> 01:34:25.880 a soul. 1850 01:34:26.520 --> 01:34:29.239 Which we know that to be absolutely false. But that 1851 01:34:29.399 --> 01:34:31.800 was that was a thought. For sure, that's not false. 1852 01:34:32.880 --> 01:34:36.000 Fish don't produce a sexually. Dude, You ever had caviar? 1853 01:34:36.640 --> 01:34:39.760 That's fish eggs. I'm pretty sure there's a lot. 1854 01:34:39.840 --> 01:34:42.079 I can't speak on all fish, but I'm pretty sure 1855 01:34:42.159 --> 01:34:43.920 most fish are asexual. 1856 01:34:45.079 --> 01:34:50.960 No, sir, you ever heard of the spawn? You ever 1857 01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:54.760 seen like two fish fucking? That's not how they do it. 1858 01:34:54.800 --> 01:34:57.720 But yeah, fish will lay her eggs. A female fish 1859 01:34:57.760 --> 01:34:59.800 will lay eggs. A male fish will come by and 1860 01:34:59.800 --> 01:35:02.159 f and his tail and spread his seed all over 1861 01:35:02.199 --> 01:35:05.720 the eggs, and they will reproduce. You ever seen finding nemo? Sure, 1862 01:35:06.479 --> 01:35:09.600 that's the eggs from the clownfish you've ever had row 1863 01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:14.479 on a fucking piece of sushi? That's fish eggs. In 1864 01:35:14.600 --> 01:35:18.000 my dad's bass pond in his backyard. As a matter 1865 01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:21.119 of fact, he has a whole ledge made with rocks 1866 01:35:21.159 --> 01:35:24.640 because bass lay their eggs more predominantly on hard surfaces 1867 01:35:24.680 --> 01:35:26.840 rather than mud. So yeah, no, there are certain breeds 1868 01:35:26.880 --> 01:35:29.960 of the aquatic nature, like sponges, for instance, they reproduced 1869 01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:32.600 by butting. Right, there are certain types of fish that 1870 01:35:32.720 --> 01:35:35.960 do something similar, But by and large, the fish that 1871 01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:38.880 we are gonna eat, nobody's eating a sea sponge. The 1872 01:35:39.039 --> 01:35:42.840 vast majority of fish that you eat absolutely reproduced by 1873 01:35:42.920 --> 01:35:45.840 eggs and by spawning. But then there's even aquatic mammals. 1874 01:35:45.840 --> 01:35:47.600 Look at the whales and dolphins. They fuck. 1875 01:35:48.600 --> 01:35:51.760 Okay, yeah, I mean, I'm just saying what they said, 1876 01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:54.239 but I'm pretty sure that that's what I wanted to 1877 01:35:54.279 --> 01:35:58.199 buil up here. It says there is no simple answer 1878 01:35:58.279 --> 01:36:01.119 to the question are fish ace as It depends on 1879 01:36:01.159 --> 01:36:05.520 the species. Some fish reproduced through external fertilization, where a 1880 01:36:05.600 --> 01:36:08.279 female lays eggs and allows them to be fertilized by 1881 01:36:08.279 --> 01:36:09.199 nearby males. 1882 01:36:10.159 --> 01:36:15.920 So that's a sexual There was no fucking. That is 1883 01:36:16.039 --> 01:36:20.560 procreative sex for that species. Asexual means that, like, without 1884 01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:23.840 any contact from an outside source, a female can just 1885 01:36:23.880 --> 01:36:26.520 produce a life within her and give birth to it 1886 01:36:26.560 --> 01:36:29.720 and then die without any interference from another I see 1887 01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:31.479 what you're saying. I see what you're saying. It says. 1888 01:36:31.680 --> 01:36:35.680 Other fish, like some species of sharks or anglerfish, reproduce 1889 01:36:35.800 --> 01:36:39.880 asexually or have a unique reproductive system that allows them 1890 01:36:39.920 --> 01:36:43.319 to switch genders, says. The reason behind these variations in 1891 01:36:43.399 --> 01:36:47.039 reproduction among different species of fish are quite fascinating. For example, 1892 01:36:47.279 --> 01:36:50.760 some deep seafish may hardly ever encounter a mate due 1893 01:36:50.800 --> 01:36:55.239 to their remote habitats, hence their ability to reproduce asexually 1894 01:36:55.479 --> 01:36:59.520 ensure survival of the species. Understanding how the various fish 1895 01:36:59.640 --> 01:37:02.600 species reproduce can help us understand more about evolution in 1896 01:37:02.640 --> 01:37:05.520 the environment. So there are fish that reproduce a sexually, 1897 01:37:06.039 --> 01:37:09.359 but they didn't know about that in the first century AD, 1898 01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:11.600 and they certainly didn't know about these. They didn't know 1899 01:37:11.600 --> 01:37:13.800 what deep sea life was looking like during the time 1900 01:37:13.800 --> 01:37:14.560 of the Cathars. 1901 01:37:14.960 --> 01:37:17.399 This is my point. The Hebrews, the ancient Hebrews had 1902 01:37:17.399 --> 01:37:20.199 a belief that fish did this. So did the Catholics, 1903 01:37:20.279 --> 01:37:23.760 and so did the Gnostics and the Cathars. But again, scientifically, 1904 01:37:23.800 --> 01:37:26.960 we know that even plants reproduced through some sort of 1905 01:37:26.960 --> 01:37:30.279 a sexual contact. So I'm just saying they believed it. 1906 01:37:30.520 --> 01:37:33.479 That is also certifiably false, but it is a belief 1907 01:37:33.479 --> 01:37:37.159 that they held true to You can't say certified be false. 1908 01:37:37.319 --> 01:37:40.439 If there are fish that reproduce asexually, we just read Jonathan. 1909 01:37:40.520 --> 01:37:43.239 That is the minority, that is not the majority of 1910 01:37:43.279 --> 01:37:46.359 aquatic life. I believe in making rules for the majority, 1911 01:37:46.399 --> 01:37:47.319 not the exceptions. 1912 01:37:48.600 --> 01:37:51.840 Well, I mean, if you're God and you're creating all 1913 01:37:51.840 --> 01:37:54.000 the rules in the first place, why wouldn't it just 1914 01:37:54.079 --> 01:37:58.840 be either a they all produce sexually or they all 1915 01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:02.560 produce asexual. So God wrote it in the code to 1916 01:38:02.680 --> 01:38:06.720 have a sexual fucking fermentation or non fermentation, but a 1917 01:38:07.079 --> 01:38:07.840 well kind. 1918 01:38:07.640 --> 01:38:11.279 Of unplantation of egg and sperm. Yes, there's most of 1919 01:38:11.680 --> 01:38:17.039 the fish in the world do that, like the vast majority. Yeah, 1920 01:38:17.319 --> 01:38:20.760 to each their own. But it was their thought, is 1921 01:38:20.760 --> 01:38:22.159 what I'm trying to say. It was just their. 1922 01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:26.800 Thought, Okay, right, right, So it says, the sooner we 1923 01:38:26.840 --> 01:38:29.840 can shed this tunic of flesh, the sooner our souls 1924 01:38:29.880 --> 01:38:31.840 could be free to fly like a spark of light 1925 01:38:31.880 --> 01:38:34.279 back to Heaven, the realm of the Good God. There 1926 01:38:34.439 --> 01:38:38.079 was therefore no reason to discourage suicide, which is. 1927 01:38:38.800 --> 01:38:40.279 They were very big with suicide. 1928 01:38:41.159 --> 01:38:44.760 Yeah, which I guess coming from this understanding, you know, 1929 01:38:45.319 --> 01:38:46.920 I get it again. 1930 01:38:47.000 --> 01:38:48.920 This is one of those that are very conflicting with 1931 01:38:48.960 --> 01:38:51.640 religious dogmas at the time, especially out of the Catholic Church. 1932 01:38:51.680 --> 01:38:54.119 The Catholic Church sees life as the greatest gift that 1933 01:38:54.159 --> 01:38:56.000 God could ever give you, aside from the death of 1934 01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:58.640 his son Jesus. The Catars were like, no, dude, if 1935 01:38:58.640 --> 01:39:01.079 you want to end it sooner, please get yourself out 1936 01:39:01.079 --> 01:39:02.760 of this cycle. But make sure you get the hand 1937 01:39:02.840 --> 01:39:05.359 laying baptism first though, and then just do what you 1938 01:39:05.359 --> 01:39:05.720 got to do. 1939 01:39:05.800 --> 01:39:08.680 Man, why would again, why would physical life be the 1940 01:39:08.720 --> 01:39:12.119 greatest gift that God could ever give? Because the soul, 1941 01:39:12.279 --> 01:39:14.199 the soul is what goes on, So you would think 1942 01:39:14.199 --> 01:39:15.520 that that would be the greatest gift. 1943 01:39:16.720 --> 01:39:20.399 Yeah, yes, right, but again, where souls living in a 1944 01:39:20.439 --> 01:39:21.199 flesh suit. 1945 01:39:21.079 --> 01:39:23.760 Right right, in a temporary flesh suit. Our soul lives 1946 01:39:23.800 --> 01:39:27.239 forever right like it is. It can't be destroyed. Yeah, 1947 01:39:27.279 --> 01:39:28.920 so you would, wouldn't you think that the thing that 1948 01:39:28.960 --> 01:39:32.039 lives forever is a little bit more valuable. 1949 01:39:32.359 --> 01:39:33.880 Okay, if you want to look at it that way. Yes, 1950 01:39:34.039 --> 01:39:36.239 it's like the light bulb conversation the animals. 1951 01:39:36.359 --> 01:39:38.319 It's like the light bulb conversation when you had the 1952 01:39:38.960 --> 01:39:43.039 light bulb mafia or whatever. Right, like the light bulbs, 1953 01:39:43.039 --> 01:39:44.720 if you can find a fucking light bulb, you know, 1954 01:39:44.760 --> 01:39:46.399 they still got that one that's been going for like 1955 01:39:46.399 --> 01:39:48.560 one hundred years or something like that. If you can 1956 01:39:48.600 --> 01:39:50.600 find a light bulb that can last you one hundred years, 1957 01:39:50.680 --> 01:39:53.079 you'd probably be willing to pay a higher price than 1958 01:39:53.119 --> 01:39:56.239 one that only lasts two or three years, right, right, right, 1959 01:39:56.319 --> 01:39:58.880 So therefore the more valuable thing that is the one 1960 01:39:58.920 --> 01:40:03.720 that either forever or last longer than this temporary situation 1961 01:40:03.760 --> 01:40:04.560 we got going on here. 1962 01:40:05.119 --> 01:40:06.880 Okay, I guess you're true. You could have been born 1963 01:40:06.920 --> 01:40:09.079 as a you know, a deer with no soul, So 1964 01:40:09.119 --> 01:40:11.479 I guess fine. You being born as a human with 1965 01:40:11.520 --> 01:40:14.600 a soul intrinsically inside of you is a pretty solid gift, 1966 01:40:14.840 --> 01:40:17.239 That's my point. But we see life as a gift, 1967 01:40:17.399 --> 01:40:21.199 not as a sentence. So again, the Cathars saw this 1968 01:40:21.680 --> 01:40:24.680 life as a sentence. This is again how they were 1969 01:40:24.800 --> 01:40:26.840 very conflicting to the Catholic Church. 1970 01:40:27.000 --> 01:40:30.000 Yeah, nobody's denying that they were conflicting. Otherwise they wouldn't 1971 01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:35.760 have been fucking, you know, rampaged so allegedly my God, 1972 01:40:37.479 --> 01:40:41.000 So there was not any reason to regard men as 1973 01:40:41.119 --> 01:40:45.079 better than women. Church didn't like that part. The important part. 1974 01:40:45.199 --> 01:40:48.720 The soul was the same, only the vile material body 1975 01:40:48.840 --> 01:40:52.199 was different. Since material objects were creations of the Bad God, 1976 01:40:52.239 --> 01:40:54.560 it was absurd to imagine that they could be of 1977 01:40:54.600 --> 01:40:59.119 any virtue. So, for example, jewels, money, relics, the Eucharist, 1978 01:40:59.239 --> 01:41:02.000 reproductions on the cross, and the church buildings were of 1979 01:41:02.039 --> 01:41:06.239 no value whatsoever. Similarly, the Catholic teaching about resurrection of 1980 01:41:06.279 --> 01:41:09.119 the body was absurd. The very idea of a physical 1981 01:41:09.159 --> 01:41:12.560 body in heaven was ridiculous. Further, it was not plausible 1982 01:41:12.600 --> 01:41:15.199 that the Good God would send anyone from his realm 1983 01:41:15.279 --> 01:41:18.079 into the evil material world of the bad God. Jesus 1984 01:41:18.119 --> 01:41:21.239 must therefore have been a sort of phantom, looking like 1985 01:41:21.279 --> 01:41:24.600 a man, but in fact immaterial. So that is their 1986 01:41:24.800 --> 01:41:27.920 ideology that Jesus couldn't have been right. 1987 01:41:27.760 --> 01:41:29.600 He couldn't have been a physical being. He had to 1988 01:41:29.640 --> 01:41:33.359 be a at least give the image or the appearance 1989 01:41:33.399 --> 01:41:35.800 that he was a physical man, but actually wasn't. And 1990 01:41:35.840 --> 01:41:37.600 that was another big thing that they believed, and a 1991 01:41:37.600 --> 01:41:40.079 lot of Gnostics believed that, and even the Muslims believed 1992 01:41:40.079 --> 01:41:44.800 that in a weird way, which actually, there's no way 1993 01:41:44.840 --> 01:41:47.800 that's possible, dude, like, not even close, and not even 1994 01:41:47.800 --> 01:41:50.039 talking about the shroud of tour in which that in 1995 01:41:50.079 --> 01:41:52.720 and of itself proves that at least Jesus lived and 1996 01:41:52.800 --> 01:41:56.239 died and walked again. There's tons of secular sources, not religious, 1997 01:41:56.279 --> 01:41:59.399 that would obtain or at least that would back that claim. 1998 01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:04.720 But everything about his life, laying hands on people, like 1999 01:42:05.239 --> 01:42:08.600 breaking bread, all of these things clearly show that he 2000 01:42:08.680 --> 01:42:10.640 was a physical, mortal man. 2001 01:42:10.960 --> 01:42:13.399 More than half of the New Testament is based upon 2002 01:42:13.560 --> 01:42:15.239 what Paul saw in a vision. 2003 01:42:15.520 --> 01:42:18.800 So it's not that crazy, no dude, No, no, no, 2004 01:42:18.800 --> 01:42:21.640 no no. Most of the New Testament is teaching people 2005 01:42:21.680 --> 01:42:25.760 how to found and start their early church. Giving an 2006 01:42:25.800 --> 01:42:28.840 account of Jesus. No no, no, Paul is not giving an 2007 01:42:28.880 --> 01:42:32.279 account of Jesus walking the earth. Paul is giving an 2008 01:42:32.319 --> 01:42:34.960 account of how we should live our lives. 2009 01:42:34.720 --> 01:42:39.000 In a Christian way, allegedly according to what Jesus told 2010 01:42:39.000 --> 01:42:41.960 to him, not in the flesh, on the road to Damascus. 2011 01:42:43.319 --> 01:42:46.279 The road to Damascus was the first conversation that they had. 2012 01:42:46.600 --> 01:42:48.439 Later on, he went to a mountain where he spent 2013 01:42:48.520 --> 01:42:51.199 time with the spirit of Jesus. But again he had 2014 01:42:51.359 --> 01:42:54.199 his story backed and verified by the apostles that walked 2015 01:42:54.199 --> 01:42:58.159 with the physical Jesus. So again there was eyewitnesses that 2016 01:42:58.199 --> 01:43:00.840 are like, oh, no, No, you saw the same guy clearly, Like, 2017 01:43:00.880 --> 01:43:02.760 there's no way you could be making this up because 2018 01:43:02.760 --> 01:43:05.439 there's things that you know about that nobody that wasn't 2019 01:43:05.439 --> 01:43:10.600 there would have known about. Okay, I mean, that's that's fine. 2020 01:43:10.640 --> 01:43:13.119 I mean I understand that you know you coming from 2021 01:43:13.159 --> 01:43:14.880 that point of view. I'm not even trying to say 2022 01:43:14.880 --> 01:43:17.359 that I'm right at all, Like I don't know shit. 2023 01:43:17.479 --> 01:43:19.560 Right, I mean, the shroud of touring is an example. 2024 01:43:19.560 --> 01:43:24.239 There is only two people, there's only two examples in 2025 01:43:24.439 --> 01:43:28.479 history of a Jewish person dying from crucifixion and getting 2026 01:43:28.520 --> 01:43:31.640 a proper Jewish burial with the death shroud. One of 2027 01:43:31.680 --> 01:43:33.800 them did not get the shit beat out of him, 2028 01:43:34.000 --> 01:43:36.880 the other one did. One of them predates Jesus by 2029 01:43:36.880 --> 01:43:39.760 a little bit, another one is literally Jesus. 2030 01:43:39.920 --> 01:43:44.079 If it's so conclusive, why do most modern scholars either 2031 01:43:44.119 --> 01:43:48.439 a agree that it's not, And why do most popes 2032 01:43:48.600 --> 01:43:51.600 agree that it's not. If it's so conclusive it's so obvious, 2033 01:43:51.640 --> 01:43:52.199 why is that. 2034 01:43:52.159 --> 01:43:55.479 Bro There was one pope that disagreed with it, and 2035 01:43:55.520 --> 01:43:58.600 he's dead now. For the record, Francis was the only 2036 01:43:58.640 --> 01:44:02.079 pope that was like anti shroud of touring. First off, Second, off. 2037 01:44:02.439 --> 01:44:05.199 Most scholars would say that at least if nothing else 2038 01:44:05.319 --> 01:44:07.159 known about Jesus, we could argue about if he was 2039 01:44:07.279 --> 01:44:09.640 or was not the son of God. But this being 2040 01:44:09.680 --> 01:44:12.640 the shroud for Jesus, most scholars would agree that that 2041 01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:13.760 is correct. 2042 01:44:14.800 --> 01:44:18.840 Well, I know that's where you get me wrong. 2043 01:44:19.079 --> 01:44:22.239 You can't say most scholars, like, is there a survey 2044 01:44:22.600 --> 01:44:25.720 that says most scholars believe No, it's the scholars that 2045 01:44:25.840 --> 01:44:29.079 like you tend to agree with and so you're trying 2046 01:44:29.119 --> 01:44:32.319 to find, you know, ideology that agrees with you, and 2047 01:44:32.640 --> 01:44:36.840 through that perspective, most scholars believe. That is not inherently correct. 2048 01:44:36.960 --> 01:44:40.439 Myscho search in such a way. Do not belittle my research. 2049 01:44:40.479 --> 01:44:42.479 You did an entire episode on the Shroud of tour 2050 01:44:42.520 --> 01:44:45.079 and where we sold skeptic sources on it. 2051 01:44:45.239 --> 01:44:48.159 You have a basic you have a basic understanding. You 2052 01:44:48.199 --> 01:44:50.239 have not a basic in a negative way. I mean 2053 01:44:50.560 --> 01:44:53.319 you have an understanding, right, you have a belief system. 2054 01:44:53.560 --> 01:44:56.079 And if you're trying most of the time, you you 2055 01:44:56.199 --> 01:44:58.960 have to admit most of the time the research that 2056 01:44:59.039 --> 01:45:02.479 you search is biased. Like that is, you're trying to 2057 01:45:02.520 --> 01:45:04.760 find things that confirm your belief. 2058 01:45:05.279 --> 01:45:08.399 At one point in time, I was doing research completely 2059 01:45:08.439 --> 01:45:12.560 for the reasons of disproving the Bible. You did that 2060 01:45:12.640 --> 01:45:15.760 for like a year or two three years, Yes, out 2061 01:45:15.760 --> 01:45:20.319 of thirty some odd years huh, out of thirty some 2062 01:45:20.359 --> 01:45:23.199 odd years of your life. Yeah, for the majority of 2063 01:45:23.199 --> 01:45:25.600 my early life I wasn't doing research into the Bible 2064 01:45:27.359 --> 01:45:30.960 as an adults. Yeah. And again, there's secular sources that 2065 01:45:31.000 --> 01:45:33.760 you can find, non Christian sources that you can find 2066 01:45:33.800 --> 01:45:36.399 that will tell you if anything is known about this 2067 01:45:36.479 --> 01:45:39.760 dude named Jesus. He absolutely lived and died and was 2068 01:45:39.800 --> 01:45:42.960 crucified under ponscious pilot, and people saw him walking after 2069 01:45:43.000 --> 01:45:46.640 his death. That's like, that's look, that's that's a totally 2070 01:45:46.840 --> 01:45:51.079 perfectly fine belief. But it is a belief. No, but 2071 01:45:51.119 --> 01:45:53.800 that's my point. He physically existed. He wasn't like an 2072 01:45:53.800 --> 01:45:56.439 ethereal spiritual type of thing that made it look like 2073 01:45:56.479 --> 01:45:59.199 he was real. So again, the Gnostics and the cathars 2074 01:45:59.359 --> 01:46:02.319 is another view that completely conflicted the Catholic Church of 2075 01:46:02.359 --> 01:46:04.479 the time. So this is another reason why they saw 2076 01:46:04.479 --> 01:46:08.159 them as enemies. Sure, sure, I mean I understand. 2077 01:46:08.239 --> 01:46:10.479 What I'm trying to say is is that it takes 2078 01:46:10.479 --> 01:46:13.640 a certain amount of belief on either side. It really 2079 01:46:13.640 --> 01:46:18.359 does like sure, like every side is crazy, So we takes. 2080 01:46:18.159 --> 01:46:20.399 A certain amount of to believe that Alexander the Great 2081 01:46:20.439 --> 01:46:24.680 live too. I mean, can we find where he's buried? 2082 01:46:26.760 --> 01:46:28.000 That's what you need to prove it. 2083 01:46:28.680 --> 01:46:30.600 I mean, at least there would be some kind of 2084 01:46:30.680 --> 01:46:34.720 verifiable physical evidence of a man named Alexander the Great. 2085 01:46:34.720 --> 01:46:38.159 Wouldn't you say there's tons of verifiable evidence. Do you 2086 01:46:38.199 --> 01:46:39.840 know how many alexandra As there are. 2087 01:46:41.119 --> 01:46:44.159 I'm just saying that there's not a whole lot of 2088 01:46:44.159 --> 01:46:48.479 physical evidence that leads to the physical Jesus, there are stories, 2089 01:46:48.800 --> 01:46:52.159 but we're talking about talking about relics. 2090 01:46:51.359 --> 01:46:55.159 Something that he would have left behind, and the turn 2091 01:46:55.319 --> 01:47:01.560 is not universally verified. Your opinion on the Shroud has 2092 01:47:01.560 --> 01:47:04.520 shifted so much the more you delve into mysticism. I 2093 01:47:04.520 --> 01:47:06.000 remember at the end of that episode, you were at 2094 01:47:06.079 --> 01:47:08.479 least convinced that the Shroud was a legitimate article. 2095 01:47:08.920 --> 01:47:11.319 That was a couple of years ago, and my research 2096 01:47:11.319 --> 01:47:14.479 has evolved. That's how the research has not changed since 2097 01:47:14.520 --> 01:47:17.600 we've done that episode. Dude, nothing new has been uncovered 2098 01:47:17.600 --> 01:47:20.239 about the Shroud. My understanding of the nature of this 2099 01:47:20.359 --> 01:47:22.199 reality is shifted, is what I'm trying to say, Sir, 2100 01:47:22.279 --> 01:47:22.560 I don't. 2101 01:47:23.359 --> 01:47:24.239 What are you trying to say. 2102 01:47:24.840 --> 01:47:27.079 Are we supposed to just stay in our beliefs and 2103 01:47:27.119 --> 01:47:29.640 just stay stagnant and not supposed to be evolve anything. 2104 01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:30.760 If that's the case, what do we do on the 2105 01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:33.600 show for? No, dude, When you find truth, you're supposed 2106 01:47:33.640 --> 01:47:35.439 to hold on to it. You're not supposed to try 2107 01:47:35.479 --> 01:47:38.239 to find different ways of looking at said truth. N 2108 01:47:38.520 --> 01:47:42.920 That's absolutely not the scientific way at all. No, the 2109 01:47:42.960 --> 01:47:44.920 scientific way of seeing. Like, Okay, if I was to 2110 01:47:45.000 --> 01:47:49.199 combine sodium and chlorine, I get sodium chloride. That's salt, excellent. 2111 01:47:49.439 --> 01:47:51.359 I only need to look at other ways to combine 2112 01:47:51.399 --> 01:47:54.079 sodium and chloride to show something else. But if sodium 2113 01:47:54.159 --> 01:47:57.079 and chloride don't always equal salt, you need to look 2114 01:47:57.079 --> 01:48:00.000 into why it doesn't. Sometimes. No, no, but that's my point, 2115 01:48:00.239 --> 01:48:03.359 and it always does because that's a fact. I agree. Yes, 2116 01:48:03.479 --> 01:48:04.920 So it's a truth that you can hold on to. 2117 01:48:05.079 --> 01:48:07.399 You don't need to look at things through a different 2118 01:48:07.560 --> 01:48:11.840 nobody's calling for the conspiracy of salt though. That's my point. 2119 01:48:12.039 --> 01:48:15.760 Whenever you find a truth, a legitimate truth, you don't 2120 01:48:15.800 --> 01:48:17.640 need to try to look in a different way on it. 2121 01:48:17.680 --> 01:48:19.479 You can just accept it as a truth and take 2122 01:48:19.520 --> 01:48:20.039 that with you. 2123 01:48:20.079 --> 01:48:22.720 But it should be able to hold up to skepticism 2124 01:48:22.840 --> 01:48:24.079 if it is absolute truth. 2125 01:48:24.079 --> 01:48:27.319 Would you say, I agree, all of these things that 2126 01:48:27.359 --> 01:48:31.159 I'm saying does hold up to skepticism according to you, 2127 01:48:31.880 --> 01:48:38.159 according everybod experts, dude, not religious leaders, the experts. Yeah, 2128 01:48:38.239 --> 01:48:40.319 we have talked about that. There were scientific tests that 2129 01:48:40.359 --> 01:48:42.479 were done on the shrout for instance. Did you do 2130 01:48:42.560 --> 01:48:47.359 any research against the Shroud of turn sir? Yes, we did, 2131 01:48:47.600 --> 01:48:50.760 as a matter of fact. What the people that were 2132 01:48:50.760 --> 01:48:52.840 saying that it was a medieval forgery and all of 2133 01:48:52.880 --> 01:48:56.039 these things. But again, healthy dose of skepticism, and you 2134 01:48:56.039 --> 01:48:58.039 got to look at the claims for and the claims 2135 01:48:58.079 --> 01:49:02.760 against with that same level of skepticism, it doesn't hold water. Look, 2136 01:49:02.800 --> 01:49:05.239 this is not supposed to be an anti Christian episode. 2137 01:49:05.359 --> 01:49:08.920 This is what I was trying to prevent because now 2138 01:49:08.960 --> 01:49:11.279 everybody's gonna think that I'm the fucking bad guy again. 2139 01:49:11.319 --> 01:49:13.880 I'm not trying to go there. No, No, you're trying 2140 01:49:13.920 --> 01:49:16.399 to argue with me to try and like depict what 2141 01:49:16.479 --> 01:49:18.880 my beliefs are. I'm just saying that my beliefs evolve 2142 01:49:19.079 --> 01:49:20.800 and some people's beliefs stay where they're at. 2143 01:49:20.840 --> 01:49:23.359 There's nothing wrong with it either way. All I was 2144 01:49:23.399 --> 01:49:25.840 trying to do is say that this is another example 2145 01:49:25.880 --> 01:49:29.399 of how the Cathars were completely going against the message 2146 01:49:29.520 --> 01:49:32.760 that the Christian Church was portraying at that time, and 2147 01:49:32.760 --> 01:49:35.640 there is another reason why they were seen as enemies, Yes, 2148 01:49:35.760 --> 01:49:40.279 the Catholic Church and the Princients, which still to this day. 2149 01:49:41.199 --> 01:49:44.039 I mean, look, if Catholicism was absolutely right, there would 2150 01:49:44.039 --> 01:49:45.880 have never been all these different branches of it. You 2151 01:49:45.920 --> 01:49:46.840 would be a Catholic. 2152 01:49:46.960 --> 01:49:51.079 But even you disagree with the Catholic belief so are 2153 01:49:51.079 --> 01:49:51.920 you're going against God? 2154 01:49:51.960 --> 01:49:55.960 Now? Now there's core tenants of Catholicism with a capital 2155 01:49:56.000 --> 01:49:57.159 see that I disagree with. 2156 01:49:57.279 --> 01:50:01.039 Yes, Okay, So I'm just saying that you would have 2157 01:50:01.079 --> 01:50:04.600 been murdered during this time for your beliefs, just so 2158 01:50:04.680 --> 01:50:09.920 you know, Martin Luther wouldn't. I'm just saying, dude, there 2159 01:50:09.960 --> 01:50:14.359 were a lot of people that were disregarded for a 2160 01:50:14.439 --> 01:50:18.239 lack of you know, a more dangerous word for their 2161 01:50:18.279 --> 01:50:21.439 beliefs back in these days. So let's just move on, 2162 01:50:21.520 --> 01:50:23.359 because I feel like we have not really gotten to 2163 01:50:23.439 --> 01:50:26.159 any information yet because we just are just going back 2164 01:50:26.159 --> 01:50:31.199 and forth. So so since material objects, okay, that's where 2165 01:50:31.239 --> 01:50:35.520 I was. Similarly, the Catholic teaching about the resurrection was absurd, 2166 01:50:36.119 --> 01:50:36.600 the very. 2167 01:50:36.479 --> 01:50:38.359 Idea did I already read that? Yeah, that's right. 2168 01:50:39.000 --> 01:50:42.239 Anyone who attached great value to material things was at 2169 01:50:42.279 --> 01:50:45.520 best mistaken and at worst a disciple of the bad God. 2170 01:50:45.760 --> 01:50:47.920 It was no secret that the Pope was the richest 2171 01:50:48.000 --> 01:50:49.119 man in Europe. 2172 01:50:49.439 --> 01:50:55.279 Cardinals, bishops, priests lived in great luxury and dressed in 2173 01:50:55.319 --> 01:50:59.640 gorgeous robes. Even worse, the Roman Church encouraged the worship 2174 01:50:59.680 --> 01:51:02.880 of material objects such as the relic of saints, the 2175 01:51:02.880 --> 01:51:06.399 relics of saints, and worse yet, it venerated the cross, 2176 01:51:06.560 --> 01:51:10.159 not only a material object, but also an instrument of torture, 2177 01:51:10.159 --> 01:51:13.880 which I do find interesting. There was no escaping the 2178 01:51:14.439 --> 01:51:18.000 logical conclusion Roman Catholics were worshiping the wrong God, the 2179 01:51:18.039 --> 01:51:20.960 God of evil who had created this world. The behavior 2180 01:51:21.039 --> 01:51:25.000 of devout Catholics seemed to confirm this conclusion. Cathar's referred 2181 01:51:25.000 --> 01:51:28.920 to the Roman Church as the Church of wolves, and 2182 01:51:28.960 --> 01:51:31.359 I could at least agree with that core tenant. We 2183 01:51:31.399 --> 01:51:34.159 shouldn't be holding on to material possessions or to life 2184 01:51:34.560 --> 01:51:37.159 too tightly, So I can at least agree with the 2185 01:51:37.199 --> 01:51:38.600 Cathar Tenant in that regard. 2186 01:51:39.239 --> 01:51:42.319 Yeah, and that I do kind of find it strange that, Like, 2187 01:51:44.079 --> 01:51:49.159 it's like the most important image of Jesus is when 2188 01:51:49.159 --> 01:51:51.760 he's being tortured, you know, like if you're just to 2189 01:51:51.840 --> 01:51:53.880 look at it, like, forget that he died for your 2190 01:51:53.880 --> 01:51:56.960 sins for just just a second, just looking at the imagery. 2191 01:51:56.760 --> 01:51:59.439 All of the amazing things that Jesus did. 2192 01:51:59.159 --> 01:52:02.039 You could I got a relic of him smiling, a 2193 01:52:02.079 --> 01:52:04.880 relic of him, you know, healing somebody, a relic of 2194 01:52:04.960 --> 01:52:07.279 him turning one loaf of bread into a thousand loaves 2195 01:52:07.319 --> 01:52:08.319 of bread, all. 2196 01:52:08.159 --> 01:52:09.359 Of the amazing things. 2197 01:52:09.399 --> 01:52:13.079 And yet the venerated image is when he's being fucking sacrificed. 2198 01:52:13.840 --> 01:52:15.600 Well, the other image is that of a fish. But 2199 01:52:15.640 --> 01:52:18.399 then people start to give the whole age of Aquarius 2200 01:52:18.439 --> 01:52:20.800 conversation rather than being like, no, that was a sign 2201 01:52:20.840 --> 01:52:24.520 of Jesus kind of thing, So Pisces not Aquarius. Excuse me. 2202 01:52:24.720 --> 01:52:28.319 My point is that, yeah, regardless whatever symbol you choose, 2203 01:52:28.359 --> 01:52:30.600 somebody's gonna say that that's not what his true intent 2204 01:52:30.800 --> 01:52:34.039 was supposed to be. But yeah, I get it. 2205 01:52:34.520 --> 01:52:36.800 I'm just saying, you know, if he was healing people, 2206 01:52:36.840 --> 01:52:38.560 that I don't think anybody would have an issue with 2207 01:52:38.560 --> 01:52:43.479 that if that's the venerated image of Jesus, like of people. 2208 01:52:43.600 --> 01:52:46.600 But no, let's let's have let's have the venerated image 2209 01:52:46.640 --> 01:52:49.359 of him being fucking sacrificed and tortured, like that's what 2210 01:52:49.359 --> 01:52:50.199 we want to remember. 2211 01:52:50.720 --> 01:52:52.680 So how do you make an image that you would wear, 2212 01:52:52.720 --> 01:52:54.800 like in a necklace or something like that, of him 2213 01:52:54.840 --> 01:52:57.359 healing people? They'd be like a whole ass medallion, which 2214 01:52:57.359 --> 01:52:58.960 there are. As a matter of fact, there are medallions 2215 01:52:59.000 --> 01:53:02.439 of different types too. Every medallions are fucking sweet. This 2216 01:53:02.560 --> 01:53:04.600 is very true. It's very true. But it's a lot 2217 01:53:04.680 --> 01:53:07.560 simpler to just make a simple thing like a cross. 2218 01:53:08.359 --> 01:53:09.720 And I'm not saying it was done like that for 2219 01:53:09.760 --> 01:53:11.840 pragmatic reasons. I think it was a lot more of 2220 01:53:11.920 --> 01:53:14.600 like this is a sign of the ultimate sacrifice that 2221 01:53:14.680 --> 01:53:17.399 saved me of my sins kind of thing. Although I 2222 01:53:17.399 --> 01:53:19.720 can understand the thought process and say that it's very 2223 01:53:19.720 --> 01:53:23.800 weird that the symbol of the religion is the torture 2224 01:53:23.840 --> 01:53:27.680 device to which the Messiah was crucified upon. I get it. 2225 01:53:27.680 --> 01:53:29.079 It's a weird thing, you know. 2226 01:53:29.159 --> 01:53:32.600 Yeah, So I wanted to get over what they believed 2227 01:53:32.720 --> 01:53:35.760 hell was because I mean, their idea of heaven is 2228 01:53:35.800 --> 01:53:40.960 basically the same thing. But hell is interesting, it says. 2229 01:53:41.119 --> 01:53:44.000 Hell to the Cathars was not a remote place under 2230 01:53:44.039 --> 01:53:47.000 the earth. For them, Hell was here and now, the 2231 01:53:47.840 --> 01:53:50.680 world itself, the creation of the Bad God was the 2232 01:53:50.720 --> 01:53:53.560 only hell that they knew. Torture, pain and misery of 2233 01:53:53.560 --> 01:53:56.159 this life was all the hell they needed to contemplate. 2234 01:53:56.359 --> 01:53:58.800 The objective for all Cathars was to escape from the 2235 01:53:58.840 --> 01:54:01.640 cycle of reincarnation, to earn the right to return to 2236 01:54:01.680 --> 01:54:04.800 Heaven and avoid another term of imprisonment here in hell 2237 01:54:04.920 --> 01:54:08.119 on earth. There was only one way to do this, 2238 01:54:08.399 --> 01:54:10.520 and that was to be reunited with the Good God 2239 01:54:10.520 --> 01:54:14.399 through the agency of the Holy Spirit. In certain defined circumstances, 2240 01:54:14.399 --> 01:54:17.640 the Holy Spirit would descend as it had descended on 2241 01:54:17.760 --> 01:54:21.039 Jesus and release the soul, but the release was contingent 2242 01:54:21.239 --> 01:54:24.399 until the person died, he or she was obliged to 2243 01:54:24.520 --> 01:54:30.119 continue trapped in a corporeal mantle, living a good life 2244 01:54:30.159 --> 01:54:32.640 in an evil world. The power to call down the 2245 01:54:32.640 --> 01:54:36.079 Holy Spirit was conferred on an ascetic elite consisting of 2246 01:54:36.119 --> 01:54:39.760 men and women who themselves had won their contingent release 2247 01:54:39.800 --> 01:54:43.520 from the cycle of rebirth. These par fates and parfdes, 2248 01:54:43.840 --> 01:54:46.479 I guess which are the men and women who were 2249 01:54:46.479 --> 01:54:50.760 elected initiates. I guess alone could induce the Holy Spirit 2250 01:54:50.800 --> 01:54:54.279 to descend and create another par fate or parf tee. 2251 01:54:54.439 --> 01:54:58.119 This they did through the Cathar ceremony called the Consolamentum. 2252 01:54:58.279 --> 01:55:03.520 The requirements were rigorous, and new evidence did live lives. Wait, 2253 01:55:03.680 --> 01:55:07.520 I just skipped a whole fucking thing. Man, these words 2254 01:55:07.520 --> 01:55:09.439 are so tiny. It's I keep on getting mixed up. 2255 01:55:09.800 --> 01:55:12.000 Dude, zoom in arcane on this screen. 2256 01:55:12.880 --> 01:55:16.640 I guess I can a little bit. Okay, let's see. 2257 01:55:17.520 --> 01:55:18.960 The requirements were rigorous. 2258 01:55:19.279 --> 01:55:19.760 Da da dah. 2259 01:55:19.840 --> 01:55:22.359 They were expected to live lives of the utmost purity, 2260 01:55:22.439 --> 01:55:25.159 and from all of the evidence, they did. 2261 01:55:25.000 --> 01:55:26.640 Live lives of the utmost purity. 2262 01:55:26.920 --> 01:55:30.960 They lived as Christian monks have always aspired to as 2263 01:55:31.039 --> 01:55:35.680 an almost impossible deal, extreme simplicity, poverty, strict adherence to 2264 01:55:35.720 --> 01:55:41.119 the commandments, severe fasting, abstinence and deprivation, constant prayer, pacifism, 2265 01:55:41.359 --> 01:55:43.800 the carrying out of good works, spreading the good Word, 2266 01:55:43.840 --> 01:55:44.359 and so on. 2267 01:55:44.680 --> 01:55:46.680 If they lapsed in any way, they lost. 2268 01:55:46.439 --> 01:55:48.680 Their status, their ability to pass on the gift of 2269 01:55:48.720 --> 01:55:51.920 the Holy spirit and their soul's place in heaven. Unless 2270 01:55:51.920 --> 01:55:54.880 they underwent the console lamentum again, which seems to have 2271 01:55:54.960 --> 01:55:58.199 happened on a few occasions, they would be condemned to 2272 01:55:58.239 --> 01:56:01.000 another life sentence in hell here on earth. 2273 01:56:01.520 --> 01:56:03.520 So interesting way I'm looking at it. 2274 01:56:04.680 --> 01:56:06.520 Yeah, And by the way, I'm not even trying to 2275 01:56:06.560 --> 01:56:10.199 say that I like, no, no buy into all this. 2276 01:56:10.560 --> 01:56:13.800 Like as to what they believe, that's all. That's all 2277 01:56:13.920 --> 01:56:16.239 I mean. Yeah, I'm more inclined to believe with. 2278 01:56:16.239 --> 01:56:19.640 Gnostic thought as opposed to the literal see of a 2279 01:56:19.680 --> 01:56:20.319 lot of things. 2280 01:56:21.359 --> 01:56:26.199 But even still, like that's they believe this literal They 2281 01:56:26.239 --> 01:56:29.000 believe in this gnostic belief system. But they believe this 2282 01:56:29.039 --> 01:56:32.159 to be literal, not metaphorical, and non philosophical. They live 2283 01:56:32.279 --> 01:56:35.159 this life in such a pious way as to break 2284 01:56:35.199 --> 01:56:37.359 the cycle of their reincarnation. This was not just a 2285 01:56:37.399 --> 01:56:39.319 philosophical thought process to these people. 2286 01:56:39.680 --> 01:56:42.199 No, I agree, it's just understanding the world in a 2287 01:56:42.239 --> 01:56:45.520 gnostic thought. I mean, you can have gnostic thoughts literally, 2288 01:56:45.800 --> 01:56:47.800 is what I'm trying to say. It's just the deeper, 2289 01:56:47.960 --> 01:56:51.399 more poetic, philosophical understanding of the nature of this reality 2290 01:56:51.439 --> 01:56:54.680 and then applying it literally is what they were doing. 2291 01:56:55.720 --> 01:56:59.920 Okay, I guess then you know, and we can go 2292 01:57:00.079 --> 01:57:02.720 on and on. I mean, there's a lot here. Let 2293 01:57:02.760 --> 01:57:07.119 me zoom back out, because the articles on this website 2294 01:57:07.119 --> 01:57:09.960 are extensive. Dude, Oh they are, dude. 2295 01:57:10.199 --> 01:57:12.760 Then it gets into like, there are dude, you want 2296 01:57:12.760 --> 01:57:17.159 to talk about the Catholic propaganda of the Cathars is crazy. Yeah, yeah, 2297 01:57:18.319 --> 01:57:21.199 the Roman Catholic propaganda, It says, this is not how 2298 01:57:21.239 --> 01:57:24.359 the Roman Catholic Church sees the Cathars and their heresy. 2299 01:57:24.760 --> 01:57:29.560 The Church's modern views, expressed by writers like Hilaire block And, 2300 01:57:29.880 --> 01:57:32.399 are not very different from those of the medieval Roman 2301 01:57:32.439 --> 01:57:36.840 Catholic Church. To most objective authorities, the most serious accusations 2302 01:57:36.880 --> 01:57:39.119 against the Cathars appear to be based on no more 2303 01:57:39.159 --> 01:57:43.039 than propaganda. No organization has ever used propaganda's to such 2304 01:57:43.119 --> 01:57:46.479 good effect as the Roman Church. The very word propaganda 2305 01:57:46.560 --> 01:57:49.159 is derived from the name of the part of the 2306 01:57:49.239 --> 01:57:52.840 Roman Church set up to propagate the faith. For many centuries, 2307 01:57:52.880 --> 01:57:56.039 the Catholic Church provided the set menu of accusations against 2308 01:57:56.079 --> 01:57:59.520 any group of which it did not approve. Pagans, Eastern churches, 2309 01:57:59.520 --> 01:58:06.640 apostible states, schismatics, heretics, Jews, Muslims, witches, Templars, numerous peoples. 2310 01:58:06.359 --> 01:58:07.640 Of the New World, and so on. 2311 01:58:08.119 --> 01:58:11.800 They were all accused of black magic, worshiping Satan, consorting 2312 01:58:11.800 --> 01:58:17.199 with demons, raping, aping, Catholic rituals aping I don't know 2313 01:58:17.239 --> 01:58:22.039 what that means, murder, cannibalism, incest, bestiality, sodomy, and a 2314 01:58:22.119 --> 01:58:25.680 range of sexual excesses. Cathars were no exception. All of 2315 01:58:25.720 --> 01:58:28.720 the preceding accusations were made against them, however scant or 2316 01:58:28.720 --> 01:58:32.560 contrary the evidence. An example of the contrast between propaganda 2317 01:58:32.560 --> 01:58:35.439 and truth is provided by the disparity between alleged and 2318 01:58:35.479 --> 01:58:39.720 real attitudes to sex. According to Catholic propaganda, Cathars, including 2319 01:58:39.880 --> 01:58:46.720 Parfates and Parfaitte's, habitually engaged in sexual excesses, including regular orgies. 2320 01:58:47.800 --> 01:58:51.640 So they were so against even like procreating and fucking 2321 01:58:51.680 --> 01:58:55.039 in general. Catholic Church says no, they were getting down 2322 01:58:55.079 --> 01:58:56.079 in orgies, right. 2323 01:58:55.960 --> 01:58:57.720 So that was part of the propaganda with We're say 2324 01:58:57.880 --> 01:59:00.800 some of these claims were also made by Catholic converts 2325 01:59:00.840 --> 01:59:04.760 from Catharisms, right. A couple of famous examples, as a 2326 01:59:04.800 --> 01:59:09.840 matter of fact, would be Rainieress Seiko and derand of Hueyska. 2327 01:59:10.439 --> 01:59:13.880 Both of these talked about what they were Cathars, the 2328 01:59:13.880 --> 01:59:17.319 things that they were exposed to. And again I am 2329 01:59:17.359 --> 01:59:19.720 not saying that this is credible sources, because we have 2330 01:59:19.800 --> 01:59:21.640 to take that with a grain of salt. And it's 2331 01:59:21.720 --> 01:59:23.840 very possible that once they became Catholics, they were like, 2332 01:59:24.199 --> 01:59:26.439 they bought in and were like, you can't believe the 2333 01:59:26.520 --> 01:59:30.279 evil that these people are doing. Right, But some of 2334 01:59:30.319 --> 01:59:34.279 these claims, again were given from first person accounts allegedly, 2335 01:59:34.600 --> 01:59:37.640 but also allegedly the Cathars never existed. So what do 2336 01:59:37.680 --> 01:59:41.000 you believe? Now, Yeah, exactly exactly made up boogeyman by 2337 01:59:41.000 --> 01:59:42.840 the Catholic Church. But we'll get to that theory here 2338 01:59:42.840 --> 01:59:45.479 in a bit. Oh, they definitely made them into a boogeyman. 2339 01:59:46.279 --> 01:59:48.520 But it says We have a striking example from the 2340 01:59:48.600 --> 01:59:52.239 twelfth century in the Archdiocese of Reims, where a group 2341 01:59:52.279 --> 01:59:55.840 of heretics called the pabli Canti were discovered through the 2342 01:59:55.880 --> 01:59:58.800 refusal of a young girl to submit to the attention 2343 01:59:58.960 --> 02:00:01.760 of a clergyman. The refusal of a girl to submit 2344 02:00:01.800 --> 02:00:04.359 to a clergyman sexual demands appears to have been so 2345 02:00:04.560 --> 02:00:08.119 unusual that she was questioned and admitted that she believed 2346 02:00:08.119 --> 02:00:11.199 that she had an obligation to keep her virginity. As 2347 02:00:11.199 --> 02:00:13.920 a result, she and her friends were investigated more closely, 2348 02:00:14.159 --> 02:00:17.479 and soon a nest of heretical believers was exposed. The 2349 02:00:17.560 --> 02:00:21.560 heretics were described by the Archbishop Samson, who asserted that 2350 02:00:21.600 --> 02:00:27.760 heresy was being spread by inert inert weavers who encouraged 2351 02:00:27.800 --> 02:00:33.000 sexual promiscuity. The Roman Church accused Cathars of various crimes 2352 02:00:33.000 --> 02:00:38.640 and sins. These claims range from the true to the preposterous. 2353 02:00:38.720 --> 02:00:39.800 Here we untangle them. 2354 02:00:39.840 --> 02:00:42.680 Each of the following charges is dealt with separately, So 2355 02:00:42.720 --> 02:00:46.800 the claims of the Cathar blasphemies. It claims that the 2356 02:00:46.840 --> 02:00:50.199 Cathar's rejected marriage, claims that they practiced incest, claims that 2357 02:00:50.199 --> 02:00:55.960 they practice sodomy, bestiality, other sex crimes, suicide, contraception, vegetarianism, 2358 02:00:56.720 --> 02:01:01.479 advocated sexual equality and perverted the natural oor. So I mean, 2359 02:01:01.479 --> 02:01:03.439 we can click on any one of those. Let's click 2360 02:01:03.479 --> 02:01:07.800 on the incest one, because that's an interesting one. Incest 2361 02:01:07.840 --> 02:01:10.159 it said there is no evidence that Cathars were given 2362 02:01:10.680 --> 02:01:14.439 to practice incest. The accusation probably stems from the observation 2363 02:01:14.520 --> 02:01:17.720 that the Cathars regarded all procreative sex as equally bad. 2364 02:01:17.960 --> 02:01:22.720 So Catholic theologians Regent reasoned, Cathars must regard sex between 2365 02:01:22.720 --> 02:01:25.399 man and wife as being as sinful as sex between 2366 02:01:25.399 --> 02:01:28.720 man and a mother, and that they must have practiced 2367 02:01:28.760 --> 02:01:29.199 the latter. 2368 02:01:30.319 --> 02:01:34.560 Right. I think this group hated sex, so to say 2369 02:01:34.600 --> 02:01:37.840 incest is kind of wild, But I mean, there are 2370 02:01:37.840 --> 02:01:40.520 some other claims. Let's keep going into it with the sodomy. 2371 02:01:40.960 --> 02:01:43.319 Sodomy it says there is no evidence the Cathars were 2372 02:01:43.319 --> 02:01:46.520 given to practice sodomy. The accusation probably stems from the 2373 02:01:46.520 --> 02:01:50.039 observation that the Cathars regarded procreative sex as worse than 2374 02:01:50.119 --> 02:01:55.479 nonprocreative sex, So Catholic theologians Regent reasoned, Cathars must regard 2375 02:01:55.520 --> 02:01:59.199 sodomy as being less culpable than conventional sex, and they 2376 02:01:59.279 --> 02:02:02.319 must have practiced the former. This was an effective and 2377 02:02:02.359 --> 02:02:06.039 persistent accusation. Remember that Cathars were given many names. When 2378 02:02:06.079 --> 02:02:08.720 they first appeared in Western Europe. They were known to 2379 02:02:08.840 --> 02:02:13.199 have come from the area we know as Bulgaria. They 2380 02:02:13.239 --> 02:02:17.800 were thus called Bulgars or bulgers, a word that the 2381 02:02:18.119 --> 02:02:23.479 Church propaganda turned into French bulger and English bugger. Ironically, 2382 02:02:23.560 --> 02:02:27.600 Sodomy has always been widely practiced in the Catholic Church, 2383 02:02:27.800 --> 02:02:31.640 though never formally condoned. Various church orders were famous for it. 2384 02:02:31.760 --> 02:02:36.520 Voltaire was particularly fond of rubbing or rubbing fond of 2385 02:02:36.640 --> 02:02:40.319 ribbing the Jesuits about how widespread it was in their order. 2386 02:02:40.720 --> 02:02:44.079 And it was not only practice between Catholic men. Anal 2387 02:02:44.159 --> 02:02:47.039 sex was commonly practiced in Catholic countries between man and 2388 02:02:47.079 --> 02:02:50.079 wife as a means of contraception. Since Cathars had no 2389 02:02:50.159 --> 02:02:53.359 moral objection to other forms of contraception, it seems likely 2390 02:02:53.439 --> 02:02:56.239 that on average Cathars would have had less need for 2391 02:02:56.319 --> 02:02:59.000 recourse to this practice as a means of contraception. So 2392 02:02:59.119 --> 02:03:02.079 it is possible that they practice sodomy rather than their 2393 02:03:02.159 --> 02:03:03.239 Catholic counterparts. 2394 02:03:04.119 --> 02:03:06.520 So real quick, The only real contention that I have 2395 02:03:06.640 --> 02:03:09.000 with what was said thus far, as far as the 2396 02:03:09.079 --> 02:03:12.840 Bogger Thing, the Book of John the Evangelist and the 2397 02:03:12.880 --> 02:03:16.039 Gospel of the Secret Supper, these are both Boga Mill 2398 02:03:16.279 --> 02:03:20.399 apocryphal texts. So the Bogo Mills were another Gnostic sect 2399 02:03:20.600 --> 02:03:24.640 of believers, possibly based on the what we would now 2400 02:03:24.640 --> 02:03:28.720 call like the Lost Polygian Treatise, which also became important 2401 02:03:28.920 --> 02:03:32.520 to the cathar scripture. So the Bogomills are seen as 2402 02:03:32.600 --> 02:03:35.600 kind of the forefathers of Catharism, if we're going to 2403 02:03:35.640 --> 02:03:39.560 be honest, and the Bogo mills did spawn from Bulgaria. 2404 02:03:39.359 --> 02:03:43.159 And the Bogo mills were absolutely taken off the face 2405 02:03:43.199 --> 02:03:47.279 of the planet too, absolutely, as well as the Polygians, right, 2406 02:03:47.439 --> 02:03:49.680 a lot of them were Yeah, the genocide at big time. 2407 02:03:50.760 --> 02:03:52.840 Then there's beast reality. We don't need to get into 2408 02:03:52.840 --> 02:03:54.960 a lot of this stuff sexual equality. 2409 02:03:55.359 --> 02:03:57.880 They just these are you know, some of the some 2410 02:03:58.000 --> 02:04:01.920 of the claims from the Catholic Church. I want to 2411 02:04:01.960 --> 02:04:04.760 see this vegetarianism because they do say that there Why 2412 02:04:04.840 --> 02:04:06.640 is it a false claim if they agreed that meat 2413 02:04:06.720 --> 02:04:09.000 was bad, So that kind of confuses me, but it says, 2414 02:04:09.159 --> 02:04:12.760 let's check it out. This is one charge that is undeniable. 2415 02:04:12.840 --> 02:04:15.520 Cathar's or at least the parfates and training par fates 2416 02:04:15.520 --> 02:04:19.079 refused to eat animal products, not only meat, but also milk, cheese, 2417 02:04:19.119 --> 02:04:24.840 and eggs, anything that resulted from coitionin like coitus. Some 2418 02:04:24.920 --> 02:04:27.560 at least refuse to eat honey, apparently on the grounds 2419 02:04:27.560 --> 02:04:29.760 that it, like the morning dew, was the product of 2420 02:04:29.880 --> 02:04:32.239 monthly copulation between the Sun and the moon. 2421 02:04:32.399 --> 02:04:35.680 They took it to the extreme, and again it's completely 2422 02:04:35.720 --> 02:04:37.680 not true. We know how honey is made, but at 2423 02:04:37.680 --> 02:04:40.159 this time they didn't have the science to back it up, 2424 02:04:40.199 --> 02:04:44.000 so they saw they saw honey as basically the sun 2425 02:04:44.079 --> 02:04:48.159 and moon's sex juices, which is wild, but all. 2426 02:04:48.159 --> 02:04:51.439 Right, it's pretty funny. Actually, that's pretty cool, fucking wild dude. 2427 02:04:51.479 --> 02:04:55.159 In many respects, Cathar par fates resembled modern day vegans, 2428 02:04:55.199 --> 02:04:58.520 except they did eat fish. That we went into the justification. 2429 02:04:58.960 --> 02:05:02.520 It says that that fish reproduced asexually was a genuinely 2430 02:05:02.520 --> 02:05:05.880 and widespread belief in Middle Ages. The same error underlay 2431 02:05:05.880 --> 02:05:08.800 the Catholic practice of eating fish on fasting days. This 2432 02:05:08.880 --> 02:05:11.079 practice is still alive in the Roman Church, and a 2433 02:05:11.199 --> 02:05:14.039 vestige of the same error in the common practice of 2434 02:05:14.079 --> 02:05:18.560 serving fish on Fridays, Fridays having been traditional fast days. Incidentally, 2435 02:05:18.640 --> 02:05:22.399 the Roman Church classified such diverse animals as beavers, and 2436 02:05:22.680 --> 02:05:25.600 we've talked about that one as beavers and Barnacle geese 2437 02:05:25.680 --> 02:05:28.720 as fish, with the happy consequence that their fast day 2438 02:05:28.760 --> 02:05:31.159 diets were not as boring as they might have otherwise been. 2439 02:05:31.479 --> 02:05:34.840 Another such wheeze was to eat animal embryos on the 2440 02:05:34.840 --> 02:05:37.479 grounds that they lived in water, the fluid within the womb, 2441 02:05:37.720 --> 02:05:43.760 and so also counted as fish. Inexplicably. Inexplicably, but happily, 2442 02:05:43.840 --> 02:05:45.880 the logic does not seem to have been applied to 2443 02:05:45.960 --> 02:05:49.680 human fetuses, which is a good thing. For many centuries, 2444 02:05:49.720 --> 02:05:52.800 the Roman Church regarded vegetarianism as a capital crime, on 2445 02:05:52.800 --> 02:05:54.840 the grounds that God had given man dominion over the 2446 02:05:54.880 --> 02:05:57.640 earth and had provided animals for him to eat. Inquisition 2447 02:05:57.760 --> 02:06:01.119 records include cases of people being required to kill and 2448 02:06:01.199 --> 02:06:01.880 eat animals. 2449 02:06:01.920 --> 02:06:02.880 This is interesting one. 2450 02:06:03.039 --> 02:06:08.000 So they required people to kill and eat animals. Shit, 2451 02:06:08.039 --> 02:06:09.960 where was I totally lost my spot? 2452 02:06:10.680 --> 02:06:11.279 Yeah, here we go. 2453 02:06:11.359 --> 02:06:14.479 They were required to eat and kill animals, often chickens, 2454 02:06:14.680 --> 02:06:17.720 to prove that they were not cathars, and failure to 2455 02:06:17.760 --> 02:06:18.800 do so meant death. 2456 02:06:19.640 --> 02:06:24.720 I like it, no what. I believe that everybody should 2457 02:06:24.800 --> 02:06:28.720 learn how to kill and clean and prepare their own meal. Absolutely, 2458 02:06:29.000 --> 02:06:32.359 some people just don't like meat. I mean, yeah, that's 2459 02:06:32.359 --> 02:06:34.359 a personal preference, but at least you should know how 2460 02:06:35.439 --> 02:06:37.880 well farming for your own plants. I believe in the 2461 02:06:37.920 --> 02:06:39.760 same way I believe that you should know how to 2462 02:06:39.880 --> 02:06:42.159 kill and clean a chicken. I believe that you should 2463 02:06:42.199 --> 02:06:44.960 also know how to raise crops, at least in small 2464 02:06:44.960 --> 02:06:47.680 scale or I should learn that knowledge. Check this out. 2465 02:06:47.760 --> 02:06:51.319 The mainstream church was hostile to vegetarianism well into the 2466 02:06:51.399 --> 02:06:55.880 twentieth century. In Britain, a government, a government minister John 2467 02:06:56.199 --> 02:07:01.359 soln Gummer could still publicly ridicule vegetarians as being anti 2468 02:07:01.520 --> 02:07:05.000 Christian as late as the nineteen eighties, citing the traditional 2469 02:07:05.079 --> 02:07:07.359 argument that God had given man dominion over the earth 2470 02:07:07.359 --> 02:07:08.359 and provided animals for. 2471 02:07:08.399 --> 02:07:12.520 Him to eat. So if you were a vegetarian, you 2472 02:07:12.600 --> 02:07:16.119 were not a goodly a Satanist trying to just eald 2473 02:07:16.159 --> 02:07:18.479 in plants, but you hate Jesus. You want to eat 2474 02:07:18.479 --> 02:07:20.920 no Hamburger bro That's fucking hilarious, And it says. 2475 02:07:21.000 --> 02:07:24.560 Vegetarians are still regarded as vaguely anti Christian by many 2476 02:07:24.600 --> 02:07:26.079 denominations even today. 2477 02:07:27.359 --> 02:07:30.359 I can speak on behalf of my own denomination. That 2478 02:07:30.520 --> 02:07:33.640 is incorrect. So you don't have a denomination, which is huh, 2479 02:07:33.880 --> 02:07:37.039 you don't have a denomination. Non denominational is its own 2480 02:07:37.039 --> 02:07:43.760 denomination dog that is like, that's like an oxymoron. I 2481 02:07:43.840 --> 02:07:46.319 get it, but you could look it up. Non denominational 2482 02:07:46.399 --> 02:07:50.760 is classified under its own branch of Christendom. Yes, that's 2483 02:07:50.800 --> 02:07:56.239 so weird. Well makes sense though. So then there's the 2484 02:07:56.319 --> 02:08:00.279 Roman Catholic propaganda perverting the natural order, which I don't 2485 02:08:00.279 --> 02:08:03.680 need to get into so much. Oh this, wait, go 2486 02:08:03.720 --> 02:08:07.680 back to that chart real quick. I wanted to see that. Oh, 2487 02:08:07.800 --> 02:08:10.840 the natural order, meaning the nobility class all the way 2488 02:08:10.840 --> 02:08:13.920 down to the surfs. The Cathars were trying to say 2489 02:08:13.920 --> 02:08:17.079 that everybody's equal, and that upsets the natural order of things, 2490 02:08:17.159 --> 02:08:19.560 you know, because the kings are obviously ordained by God 2491 02:08:19.600 --> 02:08:21.840 because of their blue blood, and God said so, otherwise 2492 02:08:21.840 --> 02:08:24.239 they wouldn't have been born to that house. The Cathar's 2493 02:08:24.279 --> 02:08:27.000 over here saying everybody's equal, Well, that just flies in 2494 02:08:27.039 --> 02:08:29.359 the face of God. Yeah, I could see that, Okay. 2495 02:08:29.600 --> 02:08:32.119 Yeah, yeah, I mean either way, either way you look 2496 02:08:32.159 --> 02:08:34.520 at it, whether you're a Cathar or Catholic. There was 2497 02:08:34.600 --> 02:08:39.800 like a lot of really strict beliefs, right, Like, I 2498 02:08:39.800 --> 02:08:42.279 don't know, but yeah. 2499 02:08:42.079 --> 02:08:45.479 They're not going to take away from the cathars devotion 2500 02:08:46.039 --> 02:08:51.279 to their beliefs, you know, if they did in fact exist. 2501 02:08:51.359 --> 02:08:54.039 And so you know what I want to move on here. 2502 02:08:55.159 --> 02:09:00.079 The Book of the Secret Supper, so allegedly all of 2503 02:09:00.119 --> 02:09:03.439 the Cathars were killed, right, except for the story goes 2504 02:09:03.479 --> 02:09:06.640 that there was still four Cathars that that the Catholic 2505 02:09:06.720 --> 02:09:10.239 Church tried to convert on, like at the very last minute, 2506 02:09:10.279 --> 02:09:13.039 they were like, look, we already burned your entire fucking village. 2507 02:09:13.039 --> 02:09:14.880 We killed basically everybody. 2508 02:09:14.479 --> 02:09:14.880 That you know. 2509 02:09:15.760 --> 02:09:18.079 You you either need to convert or die, like, we're 2510 02:09:18.079 --> 02:09:20.840 gonna give you this one last this one last shot. 2511 02:09:21.039 --> 02:09:24.640 And it said that instead of converting, they walked into 2512 02:09:24.640 --> 02:09:29.359 the flames, uh, singing what's the hymns? 2513 02:09:29.479 --> 02:09:29.640 Right? 2514 02:09:30.199 --> 02:09:32.399 But it said that whenever they went in there, they 2515 02:09:32.399 --> 02:09:36.800 were they were either holding on to this relic or 2516 02:09:36.840 --> 02:09:40.199 that they almost like a like a kill switch. They 2517 02:09:40.319 --> 02:09:42.920 they hit it somewhere in hopes that humanity eventually one 2518 02:09:42.960 --> 02:09:45.079 day would find it, and that they say that the 2519 02:09:45.119 --> 02:09:48.520 main reason why the Cathars were being persecuted was because 2520 02:09:48.560 --> 02:09:49.520 of this one book. 2521 02:09:49.840 --> 02:09:52.479 Now that's just a story. It's not the story. 2522 02:09:52.640 --> 02:09:54.800 I mean, let me say, what relic the book itself? 2523 02:09:54.840 --> 02:09:58.279 You mean the book itself called The Secret? Yeah, so 2524 02:09:58.840 --> 02:10:01.079 this is just the Wikipedia. And then we have eleven 2525 02:10:01.119 --> 02:10:03.359 minute video that goes into it a little bit more deeper. 2526 02:10:04.319 --> 02:10:07.000 You know, I can't really rely too much on Wikipedia, 2527 02:10:07.039 --> 02:10:08.439 but at least a decent outline of it. 2528 02:10:09.479 --> 02:10:11.960 So The Book of the Secret Supper. 2529 02:10:12.199 --> 02:10:17.159 Called the Sina Secretia or Secreta, also known as the 2530 02:10:17.199 --> 02:10:21.079 Interrogatio Iohannes or the Questions of John, the Book of 2531 02:10:21.159 --> 02:10:24.199 John the Evangelist and the Gospel of the Secret of 2532 02:10:24.239 --> 02:10:27.720 the Secret Supper, was a bogamil apocryphal text from Bulgaria, 2533 02:10:27.800 --> 02:10:31.520 possibly based on a now lost Polytioni treatise, which also 2534 02:10:31.560 --> 02:10:34.880 became an important Cathar scripture. The book was translated into 2535 02:10:34.960 --> 02:10:37.720 Latin and introduced to Italy in the late twelfth century, 2536 02:10:37.920 --> 02:10:40.760 then taken to province before the Abagensian crusade by the 2537 02:10:40.840 --> 02:10:48.279 Kashar bishop Nazarials or Nazario. Two manuscripts survived. One was 2538 02:10:48.319 --> 02:10:50.479 found in the archives of the Inquisition in the French 2539 02:10:50.520 --> 02:10:55.079 town of Carson and Langadoc, a Cathar stronghold, and the 2540 02:10:55.159 --> 02:10:58.039 other was kept in a national library in Vienna, Austria. 2541 02:10:58.239 --> 02:11:01.600 There are significant differences between the two texts, indicating independent 2542 02:11:01.640 --> 02:11:06.159 manuscript traditions. A PostScript added to the Carson manuscript by 2543 02:11:06.199 --> 02:11:09.039 the inquisitors states that this is the secret of the 2544 02:11:09.079 --> 02:11:15.159 Heretics of con Corezo, brought from Bulgaria by Nazarreal's their bishop. 2545 02:11:15.279 --> 02:11:16.920 It is full of errors, they say. 2546 02:11:18.960 --> 02:11:21.640 So the contents is that the book of the Book 2547 02:11:21.680 --> 02:11:24.279 of the Secret Supper is a first person narrative beginning 2548 02:11:24.359 --> 02:11:27.399 and quotes I John dot dot dot, in which John 2549 02:11:27.439 --> 02:11:31.000 the evangelist poses a series of questions to Jesus at 2550 02:11:31.000 --> 02:11:32.720 a secret supper in the Kingdom of Heaven. 2551 02:11:33.119 --> 02:11:35.600 So this was something that happened, not on the material 2552 02:11:35.640 --> 02:11:38.359 realm allegedly, so, it says. 2553 02:11:38.880 --> 02:11:41.800 The book begins with a story of opposing cosmic forces, God, 2554 02:11:41.840 --> 02:11:45.199 the invisible Father and creator of good, and Satan, the 2555 02:11:45.239 --> 02:11:48.800 creator of evil. This book exhibits a mitigated dualism by 2556 02:11:48.800 --> 02:11:52.680 stating that Satan was a former angel of God before falling, 2557 02:11:52.960 --> 02:11:57.159 shining white before his fall and burning red. After Jesus 2558 02:11:57.199 --> 02:11:59.960 tells John how Satan took over the semi created world, 2559 02:12:00.239 --> 02:12:03.000 descending from the Third Heaven and recruiting angels to join him. 2560 02:12:03.039 --> 02:12:05.800 According to the plan of the Governor Most High, Satan 2561 02:12:05.840 --> 02:12:09.720 brought forth all living things plants, animals, fish, and birds, 2562 02:12:09.760 --> 02:12:11.960 then created man and woman from clay in order to 2563 02:12:12.039 --> 02:12:15.359 serve him, animating the man with an angel from the 2564 02:12:15.399 --> 02:12:17.760 Second Heaven and the woman with an angel from the 2565 02:12:17.800 --> 02:12:21.199 First heaven. The angels were distressed at having to inhabit 2566 02:12:21.279 --> 02:12:24.520 material forms. Satan encouraged them to sin, but they did 2567 02:12:24.520 --> 02:12:26.920 not know how. So Satan filled the woman with a 2568 02:12:27.000 --> 02:12:30.640 longing for sin, then created a serpent from his spittle, 2569 02:12:30.920 --> 02:12:34.359 inhabited it, and seduced her with its tail. He then 2570 02:12:34.439 --> 02:12:37.359 filled Adam with lust for debauchery, with the result that 2571 02:12:37.760 --> 02:12:40.600 all their children were offspring of the devil and of 2572 02:12:40.680 --> 02:12:41.199 the serpent. 2573 02:12:41.960 --> 02:12:48.399 So pretty interesting twist. So Satan is the snake in 2574 02:12:48.439 --> 02:12:53.439 the garden of Eden? Was the creation of Satan's spit? Interesting? Okay, 2575 02:12:54.159 --> 02:12:55.359 Then it gets to the last judgment. 2576 02:12:55.359 --> 02:12:56.720 We're not gonna read the whole thing, but it says 2577 02:12:56.720 --> 02:12:59.000 the final part of the book is a description of 2578 02:12:59.039 --> 02:13:01.720 the last judgment. And those who have followed an angelic 2579 02:13:01.800 --> 02:13:04.399 life shall be honored, while those who live the life 2580 02:13:04.439 --> 02:13:08.920 of iniquity shall find wrath, fury, and distress, and everlasting fire. Satan, 2581 02:13:09.039 --> 02:13:11.479 after waging war upon the just, will be bound with 2582 02:13:11.560 --> 02:13:14.399 unbreakable bonds and cast into a poll of fire. Then 2583 02:13:14.479 --> 02:13:16.119 the Son of God will sit on the right hand 2584 02:13:16.119 --> 02:13:18.119 of his father. The righteous will be set among the 2585 02:13:18.199 --> 02:13:20.520 choir of angels. God shall be in the midst of 2586 02:13:20.560 --> 02:13:23.600 them and wipe away their tears, and of his kingdom. 2587 02:13:23.640 --> 02:13:25.560 There shall be no end forever and ever. 2588 02:13:26.680 --> 02:13:29.319 This doesn't exactly make sense to me. And I'm not 2589 02:13:29.359 --> 02:13:32.640 saying this is some sort of an expert on Catherism, 2590 02:13:32.680 --> 02:13:36.279 but they believed in reincarnation and that this cycle would 2591 02:13:36.319 --> 02:13:41.079 go on for forever, Like I, I, how does it 2592 02:13:41.199 --> 02:13:44.520 get to an endpoint if that's the case. Oh God, 2593 02:13:44.600 --> 02:13:47.760 this guy. I love this guy. Uh shot. This guy's 2594 02:13:47.800 --> 02:13:48.840 a fucking tool. 2595 02:13:49.239 --> 02:13:52.039 I like him. He might be a little toolish, but 2596 02:13:52.279 --> 02:13:54.359 I like him. He's pretty well read, at least on 2597 02:13:54.640 --> 02:13:55.720 you know, certain things. 2598 02:13:56.319 --> 02:13:57.960 He's like a new Billy Carson dog. 2599 02:13:59.199 --> 02:14:02.560 I mean, yeah, it's up to the interpreter. But this 2600 02:14:02.840 --> 02:14:07.880 is called Morgue Underscore official on TikTok. Pretty interesting fellow. 2601 02:14:09.159 --> 02:14:11.560 But anyway, there's a video. And the only reason I 2602 02:14:11.640 --> 02:14:13.560 brought him up was I was trying to look for, 2603 02:14:13.720 --> 02:14:17.079 you know, good sources of this whole book, right, the 2604 02:14:17.359 --> 02:14:19.960 supposed book of which why the Cathars were being taken 2605 02:14:20.000 --> 02:14:21.560 out at least from their vantage point. 2606 02:14:22.680 --> 02:14:25.079 And he describes it really well. So it's eleven minutes. 2607 02:14:25.119 --> 02:14:25.640 We can stop. 2608 02:14:25.680 --> 02:14:27.319 You tell me when to tell me when you want 2609 02:14:27.319 --> 02:14:30.560 to stop if at all, But the way he describes. 2610 02:14:30.199 --> 02:14:32.039 It as is really good. Tail. 2611 02:14:32.199 --> 02:14:35.239 Satan was an angel who rebelled against God, then got 2612 02:14:35.319 --> 02:14:37.640 kicked out of heaven and became the devil. But the 2613 02:14:37.680 --> 02:14:41.399 Cathars said, not so fast, hold my wine, because yeah, 2614 02:14:41.439 --> 02:14:44.840 there was a rebellion, but you guys got it completely backwards. 2615 02:14:44.920 --> 02:14:47.640 According to them, the God of the Bible was actually 2616 02:14:47.760 --> 02:14:51.560 Satan pulling a cosmic rebellion. Sound kind of confusing. Okay, well, 2617 02:14:51.640 --> 02:14:54.600 let's unravel this with the text itself, because the Secret 2618 02:14:54.640 --> 02:14:57.439 Supper does not hold back. In the Secret Supper, John 2619 02:14:57.560 --> 02:15:01.520 directly asks Jesus about Satan's or rjeins and status before 2620 02:15:01.640 --> 02:15:04.640 the fall, and Jesus answers that Satan used to be 2621 02:15:04.720 --> 02:15:07.920 a top angel in heaven before pride overtook him. And 2622 02:15:08.000 --> 02:15:11.239 I said, Lord, before Satan fell in, what glory abode 2623 02:15:11.319 --> 02:15:13.600 he with thy Father? And he said, unto me? And 2624 02:15:13.720 --> 02:15:16.439 such glory was he that he commandeth the powers of 2625 02:15:16.479 --> 02:15:19.800 the heavens. So Satan started out as a big boss angel. 2626 02:15:19.880 --> 02:15:22.640 He commanded other angels under the true God. Who's the 2627 02:15:22.720 --> 02:15:23.199 true God? 2628 02:15:23.239 --> 02:15:23.399 Then? 2629 02:15:23.520 --> 02:15:26.479 Well, the Cathars believe that behind all things was a 2630 02:15:26.560 --> 02:15:30.600 being of pure light and unity, who did not create 2631 02:15:30.640 --> 02:15:33.520 this world of flesh, but the realm of spirit. And 2632 02:15:33.600 --> 02:15:37.600 Satan he wanted that power, the Secret Text continues, And 2633 02:15:37.680 --> 02:15:40.640 he saw the glory of Him that moveth the heavens, 2634 02:15:40.720 --> 02:15:43.159 and he thought to set his seat above the clouds 2635 02:15:43.199 --> 02:15:46.319 of heaven and desired to be like unto the most High. 2636 02:15:46.359 --> 02:15:49.279 So Satan sees the glory of the true God and says, hey, 2637 02:15:49.319 --> 02:15:50.960 I want a throne above the clouds. 2638 02:15:51.079 --> 02:15:51.880 I want to be God. 2639 02:15:51.960 --> 02:15:54.279 Now here's where he gets wild, because the Secret Supper 2640 02:15:54.319 --> 02:15:57.920 describes in detail how Satan launched his rebellion. He didn't 2641 02:15:57.960 --> 02:16:00.479 just say I'm God now and poof God expect. No, 2642 02:16:00.560 --> 02:16:03.560 he went through a journey through what the ancients believed 2643 02:16:03.720 --> 02:16:08.640 formed creation, which were the four classical elements air, water, earth, 2644 02:16:08.680 --> 02:16:12.479 and fire. And here's where it goes full metaphysical acid trip. 2645 02:16:12.560 --> 02:16:15.399 The textas this about Satan. And when he had descended 2646 02:16:15.560 --> 02:16:18.319 into the air, he said, unto the Angel of the Air, 2647 02:16:18.520 --> 02:16:21.159 open unto me the gates of the air. And he 2648 02:16:21.279 --> 02:16:24.319 opened them unto him. So first air. Now, in the 2649 02:16:24.319 --> 02:16:28.239 theory of elements, air represents the intellect. So Satan asks 2650 02:16:28.239 --> 02:16:30.520 the Angel of the Air to open the gates so 2651 02:16:30.560 --> 02:16:34.120 he's getting permission to pass through this atmospheric veil. He's 2652 02:16:34.159 --> 02:16:37.200 like an evil Obi wan Kenobi using a Jedi mind trick. 2653 02:16:37.360 --> 02:16:41.120 Let me hear identification. You don't need to see his identification. 2654 02:16:41.600 --> 02:16:43.280 We don't need to see his identification. 2655 02:16:43.440 --> 02:16:46.239 It's not a violent overthrow at this point. It starts 2656 02:16:46.239 --> 02:16:49.760 with access, consent, persuasion. And he sought to go further 2657 02:16:49.879 --> 02:16:53.399 downward and found the angel which held the waters, and said, 2658 02:16:53.479 --> 02:16:56.120 unto him, open, unto me the gates of the waters. 2659 02:16:56.239 --> 02:16:58.680 And he opened to him. All right, we went through air. 2660 02:16:58.760 --> 02:17:02.479 Now we're a water, and symbolically water represents emotion and 2661 02:17:02.559 --> 02:17:05.680 the depths of the unconscious and intuition. Again, he's not 2662 02:17:05.760 --> 02:17:08.799 breaking things open, he asks the Angel of water. These 2663 02:17:08.840 --> 02:17:12.520 elemental angels are like caretakers of reality's layers, and they're 2664 02:17:12.559 --> 02:17:16.239 being duped into helping the adversary descend. And he passed 2665 02:17:16.239 --> 02:17:19.200 through and found all the face of the Earth covered 2666 02:17:19.239 --> 02:17:23.239 with waters. So earth symbolically represents the physical world, and 2667 02:17:23.280 --> 02:17:26.799 here the Earth is submerged. So this is pre genesis, 2668 02:17:26.840 --> 02:17:29.760 the beta version of reality. So the Earth hasn't even 2669 02:17:29.920 --> 02:17:32.600 emerged from the waters at this point yet. Okay, but 2670 02:17:32.760 --> 02:17:36.600 something strange happens. And he passed through beneath the earth 2671 02:17:36.680 --> 02:17:39.680 and found two fishes lying upon the waters. And they 2672 02:17:39.719 --> 02:17:43.120 were as oxen yoked for plowing, holding the whole earth 2673 02:17:43.319 --> 02:17:46.239 by the commandment of the Invisible Father, from the west 2674 02:17:46.399 --> 02:17:48.799 even unto the sun rising. Okay, what the hell are 2675 02:17:48.840 --> 02:17:52.120 these fish doing? Two fishes yoked together holding the earth. 2676 02:17:52.200 --> 02:17:55.159 Who wrote this? The archangel doctor Seuss. Okay, I know 2677 02:17:55.200 --> 02:17:56.840 it sounds a little crazy, but I want you to 2678 02:17:56.840 --> 02:18:00.000 think about how similar this is to yin yang symbolism 2679 02:18:00.159 --> 02:18:03.719 see in Daoist. In Chinese philosophy, the yin yang is 2680 02:18:03.760 --> 02:18:08.520 sometimes called the double fish. Two swirling fish chasing each other, 2681 02:18:08.639 --> 02:18:11.920 one dark, one light, perfectly balanced, eternally flowing. 2682 02:18:12.159 --> 02:18:16.360 I've always circled each other in an eternal balance. They 2683 02:18:16.399 --> 02:18:17.360 balance each other. 2684 02:18:18.079 --> 02:18:21.799 So the two fish as oxen yoked suggest a paired, 2685 02:18:22.040 --> 02:18:25.840 balanced force that must stay united to uphold the world. 2686 02:18:25.879 --> 02:18:28.479 They're beneath the earth, under the waters, meaning they're a 2687 02:18:28.600 --> 02:18:32.799 foundational structure. The line from the west even unto the sunrising, 2688 02:18:33.000 --> 02:18:35.760 or in other words, from sunrise to sunset, reflects a 2689 02:18:35.760 --> 02:18:38.479 cyclical process a lot like the yin yang symbol. So 2690 02:18:38.559 --> 02:18:41.440 here the fish are like the engine of duality beneath everything, 2691 02:18:41.479 --> 02:18:44.239 holding it up, bound together in unity. So while it's 2692 02:18:44.319 --> 02:18:48.159 highly unlikely but not impossible that the Cathars were actually 2693 02:18:48.239 --> 02:18:52.120 influenced by ancient Chinese philosophy, it is cool how similar 2694 02:18:52.159 --> 02:18:55.719 these ideas are, and this passage shows that archetypal imagery 2695 02:18:56.040 --> 02:18:59.399 can transcend cultures. Okay, okay, enough with the fish, let's 2696 02:18:59.440 --> 02:19:02.239 get back to the devil. After his trip to the 2697 02:19:02.280 --> 02:19:05.719 transcendental aquarium, he goes down even further, and when he 2698 02:19:05.799 --> 02:19:09.120 had gone down, he found hell, that is the gehenna 2699 02:19:09.239 --> 02:19:12.200 of fire, and thereafter he could go down no further 2700 02:19:12.319 --> 02:19:14.680 because of the flame of the burning fire. All right, 2701 02:19:14.719 --> 02:19:17.879 now we've hit fire, the final element here, and traditionally 2702 02:19:17.920 --> 02:19:22.040 fire represents ashion, energy and willpower. But here this is gehenna, 2703 02:19:22.120 --> 02:19:25.680 another name for hell, the burning edge of reality. Satan 2704 02:19:25.719 --> 02:19:27.840 has hit the floor of the universe and he can't 2705 02:19:27.840 --> 02:19:30.360 go any further. So look at what we've got here. 2706 02:19:30.440 --> 02:19:34.959 Satan has descended through the four elements, air, the intellectual mind, water, 2707 02:19:35.200 --> 02:19:40.440 the emotional depths and water of the unconscious Earth, physical reality, 2708 02:19:40.520 --> 02:19:45.600 but currently submerged fire, the burning embers of passion, desire, energy, 2709 02:19:45.719 --> 02:19:48.760 and in this text the boundary of creation. So this 2710 02:19:48.799 --> 02:19:51.760 is a full initiation through the four elements, but instead 2711 02:19:51.760 --> 02:19:56.280 of ascending towards enlightenment, Satan is descending into conquest. The 2712 02:19:56.280 --> 02:19:58.680 four elements were considered to be the building box of 2713 02:19:58.799 --> 02:20:01.639 creation and what is say and do? He descends through them, 2714 02:20:01.680 --> 02:20:03.920 but then he flips it around. He wants to build 2715 02:20:03.920 --> 02:20:07.559 a world to replace the divine, a copy, a counterfeit. 2716 02:20:07.639 --> 02:20:11.440 And Satan returned back and filled up, passed over again 2717 02:20:11.680 --> 02:20:15.040 the paths, and entered in unto the angel of the 2718 02:20:15.200 --> 02:20:18.319 Air and to him that was over the waters, and said, 2719 02:20:18.399 --> 02:20:21.200 unto them, all these things are mine, all right, So 2720 02:20:21.239 --> 02:20:24.079 he can't pass the fire, so he turns back around 2721 02:20:24.120 --> 02:20:26.680 and starts going back up. But he's about to launch 2722 02:20:26.760 --> 02:20:30.520 a cosmic hostile takeover. See the angels of Air and water, 2723 02:20:30.639 --> 02:20:33.680 they already opened their gates, and so Satan knows that 2724 02:20:33.719 --> 02:20:37.319 they're persuadable. So he knows that he needs these elemental 2725 02:20:37.319 --> 02:20:40.040 angels on his side, so he offers them a deal. 2726 02:20:40.239 --> 02:20:43.799 Satan says, all these things are mine if ye will 2727 02:20:43.840 --> 02:20:46.159 harken unto me, I will set my seat in the 2728 02:20:46.159 --> 02:20:48.399 clouds and be like the most high, and I will 2729 02:20:48.440 --> 02:20:51.799 take the waters from this upper firmament and gather together 2730 02:20:51.920 --> 02:20:54.639 the other parts of the sea, and thereafter there shall 2731 02:20:54.680 --> 02:20:57.040 be no water upon the face of all the earth, 2732 02:20:57.120 --> 02:21:00.360 and I will rain with you over the world without end. 2733 02:21:00.440 --> 02:21:00.959 All right, So. 2734 02:21:01.000 --> 02:21:03.239 What's all this about. Well, at this point, the earth 2735 02:21:03.319 --> 02:21:05.879 is submerged in water, and he's saying, hey, if you 2736 02:21:05.959 --> 02:21:09.280 join me, I'll gather the waters into oceans, turning the 2737 02:21:09.319 --> 02:21:12.840 submerged earth into dry ground, so we can build an 2738 02:21:12.879 --> 02:21:16.000 empire on it and will rule forever. So this is 2739 02:21:16.040 --> 02:21:19.879 a spiritual pyramid scheme. He's literally offering the angel's ocean 2740 02:21:19.879 --> 02:21:22.280 front property in his fake asked version of Heaven. 2741 02:21:24.479 --> 02:21:27.440 I'm going to lead you down rock and. 2742 02:21:27.440 --> 02:21:30.159 Guess what, some angels bought it. He went out through 2743 02:21:30.159 --> 02:21:33.040 all the heavens, seducing the angels of the Invisible Father. 2744 02:21:33.159 --> 02:21:36.719 In other words, Satan started recruiting followers among God's angels 2745 02:21:36.799 --> 02:21:39.120 as he ascends through heaven, and a lot of the 2746 02:21:39.159 --> 02:21:41.920 angels they fell for it, hook line and sinker. Not 2747 02:21:41.959 --> 02:21:44.840 only did they fall for it, but they literally became 2748 02:21:45.000 --> 02:21:48.280 fallen angels. The true God, the Invisible Father of Light, 2749 02:21:48.639 --> 02:21:51.639 saw to that. Then the Father commanded his angels, saying, 2750 02:21:51.719 --> 02:21:54.479 take away their garments, and the angels took away their 2751 02:21:54.520 --> 02:21:56.959 garments and their thrones and their crowns from all the 2752 02:21:57.000 --> 02:22:00.360 angels that hearkened unto him, the rebel angels had everything 2753 02:22:00.440 --> 02:22:03.520 taken away. So Satan may have descended through the power 2754 02:22:03.600 --> 02:22:06.799 of the four elements. But and this is important, he 2755 02:22:07.000 --> 02:22:11.319 wasn't able to grasp the hidden fifth element spirit. Only 2756 02:22:11.360 --> 02:22:14.479 the true God had power over that. The Father essentially said, hey, 2757 02:22:14.520 --> 02:22:16.719 you want to follow Satan, fine, but you're not doing 2758 02:22:16.719 --> 02:22:19.000 it as my angels and my realm. So they got 2759 02:22:19.040 --> 02:22:21.879 booted out of heaven. But what did they become? Not demons? 2760 02:22:21.920 --> 02:22:25.280 No way, Let's find out. John then asks Jesus, well, 2761 02:22:25.319 --> 02:22:27.920 weird did Satan and his followers end up after being 2762 02:22:27.959 --> 02:22:30.639 cast out? And I asked the Lord? When Satan fell 2763 02:22:30.760 --> 02:22:34.639 in what place? Dwelty? And he answered, my Father changed 2764 02:22:34.639 --> 02:22:37.319 his appearance because of his pride, and the light was 2765 02:22:37.360 --> 02:22:40.680 taken from him, and his face became like unto heated iron, 2766 02:22:40.959 --> 02:22:43.520 and his face became holy, like that of a man. So, 2767 02:22:43.600 --> 02:22:47.000 according to this, when Satan was expelled, his angelic form 2768 02:22:47.200 --> 02:22:50.239 was burned away, his face became like a red hot iron, 2769 02:22:50.319 --> 02:22:53.719 and he became probably what we'd recognize as a demonic figure. 2770 02:22:53.760 --> 02:22:56.120 But what about the angels? And he drew with his 2771 02:22:56.239 --> 02:22:59.000 tail the third part of the angels of God, and 2772 02:22:59.200 --> 02:23:01.680 was cast out from the seat of God and from 2773 02:23:01.719 --> 02:23:05.000 the stewardship of the heavens. And Satan came down into 2774 02:23:05.040 --> 02:23:08.760 this firmament, and he could find no rest for himself 2775 02:23:08.879 --> 02:23:11.959 nor for them that were with him. So Satan dragged 2776 02:23:11.959 --> 02:23:14.479 down a third of the angels with him. That's thirty 2777 02:23:14.479 --> 02:23:17.920 three point three percent of all divine staff gone. Now 2778 02:23:17.959 --> 02:23:20.120 if that sounds familiar, it's because it's in the Bible 2779 02:23:20.239 --> 02:23:23.360 Revelation twelve four says and his tail drew a third 2780 02:23:23.399 --> 02:23:25.840 part of the stars of Heaven and cast them to 2781 02:23:25.879 --> 02:23:28.719 the earth. So basically they all got yeeded out of Heaven. 2782 02:23:28.799 --> 02:23:32.280 And suddenly these ex angels find themselves in the material universe, 2783 02:23:32.360 --> 02:23:35.479 wandering around in darkness, not being able to rest anywhere. 2784 02:23:35.719 --> 02:23:38.479 But what happens when Satan realizes he can't get back 2785 02:23:38.520 --> 02:23:42.479 to Heaven. He builds his own kingdom right here, this world, 2786 02:23:42.879 --> 02:23:45.719 this earth, the world of flesh, of suffering, of death. 2787 02:23:45.920 --> 02:23:49.159 This isn't God's kingdom. According to the Secret Supper, this 2788 02:23:49.360 --> 02:23:53.399 is Satan's sandbox. The Secret supper describes what Satan does next. 2789 02:23:53.600 --> 02:23:56.280 And so sat he in the firmament and commanded the 2790 02:23:56.319 --> 02:23:58.559 angel that was over the air, and him that was 2791 02:23:58.600 --> 02:24:00.879 over the waters. And they ran raised up the earth, 2792 02:24:00.959 --> 02:24:03.399 and it appeared dry. And he took the crown of 2793 02:24:03.440 --> 02:24:05.799 the angel that was over the waters, and of half 2794 02:24:05.879 --> 02:24:08.360 thereof he made the light of the moon, and half 2795 02:24:08.440 --> 02:24:11.040 the light of the stars, and of precious stones. He 2796 02:24:11.079 --> 02:24:13.440 made all the hosts of the stars. All right, let 2797 02:24:13.479 --> 02:24:16.120 that sink in. The devil is creating the world, and 2798 02:24:16.200 --> 02:24:18.799 even steals the crown of the water angel, and he 2799 02:24:18.959 --> 02:24:21.360 uses it to create the moon and the stars. And 2800 02:24:21.399 --> 02:24:23.959 we have a lot more symbolism going on here, because 2801 02:24:24.000 --> 02:24:27.840 the moon is associated with the waters of the unconscious. See, 2802 02:24:27.840 --> 02:24:31.120 the devil's kingdom is a psychological trap designed to pull 2803 02:24:31.159 --> 02:24:33.760 your awareness down and keep you in the dark. He's 2804 02:24:33.799 --> 02:24:36.399 not done. And he commanded the earth to bring forth 2805 02:24:36.479 --> 02:24:39.760 every beast for food in every creeping thing, and trees 2806 02:24:39.840 --> 02:24:42.360 and herbs. And he commanded the sea to bring forth 2807 02:24:42.399 --> 02:24:44.600 fishes and the fowls of the heaven. Right, do you 2808 02:24:44.600 --> 02:24:46.760 see what this text is saying. It's telling you that 2809 02:24:46.799 --> 02:24:49.040 the God of Genesis, the creator, God of the Bible 2810 02:24:49.280 --> 02:24:52.040 is not the true God, that creator God is actually 2811 02:24:52.079 --> 02:24:54.840 the Devil. In fact, the Bible itself says that Satan 2812 02:24:55.040 --> 02:24:58.200 is the ruler of this world multiple times. For example, 2813 02:24:58.280 --> 02:25:00.959 John twelve thirty one says, now the ruler of this 2814 02:25:01.079 --> 02:25:04.200 world will be cast out, and in Second Corinthians, Paul 2815 02:25:04.239 --> 02:25:06.600 even calls Satan the god of this world. The God 2816 02:25:06.600 --> 02:25:09.719 of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers 2817 02:25:09.799 --> 02:25:12.079 to keep them from seeing the light of the Gospel, 2818 02:25:12.159 --> 02:25:14.479 of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2819 02:25:14.559 --> 02:25:16.920 And if that's not enough. In the Bible, the devil 2820 02:25:17.040 --> 02:25:20.520 literally tries to give Jesus the world in exchange for 2821 02:25:20.920 --> 02:25:24.079 Christ's worship. The devil showed him all the kingdoms of 2822 02:25:24.120 --> 02:25:26.959 the world and their splendor. All this I will give you, 2823 02:25:27.040 --> 02:25:29.600 he said, if you bow down and worship me. Why 2824 02:25:29.680 --> 02:25:32.719 would the devil offer Jesus the world unless he was 2825 02:25:32.760 --> 02:25:35.040 the one who built it? Don't These verses make a 2826 02:25:35.040 --> 02:25:37.799 lot more sense when we consider that God didn't create 2827 02:25:37.840 --> 02:25:40.959 the world, that Satan was cast from heaven and he 2828 02:25:41.079 --> 02:25:41.639 created it. 2829 02:25:41.719 --> 02:25:45.799 Now, Okay, so that's you know, it's actually like thirty 2830 02:25:45.840 --> 02:25:47.479 eight minutes long, this whole video, So we're not going 2831 02:25:47.520 --> 02:25:49.680 to watch the whole thing, but I was just like, man, 2832 02:25:50.799 --> 02:25:53.440 it's an interesting belief and now to see where the 2833 02:25:53.440 --> 02:25:58.040 correlations are being made, right, But this is just some 2834 02:25:58.120 --> 02:25:59.719 of their beliefs. So I kind of just wanted to 2835 02:25:59.719 --> 02:26:03.879 mention that that was allegedly the story of the of 2836 02:26:03.920 --> 02:26:05.639 the what was it called the creation? 2837 02:26:06.879 --> 02:26:08.520 Well that was in the that that story was in 2838 02:26:08.559 --> 02:26:10.840 the Secret Supper. As what I'm trying to say, Yeah, 2839 02:26:10.840 --> 02:26:14.319 it's a very interesting fanfic in my opinion, which I 2840 02:26:14.360 --> 02:26:17.440 think most of the Gnostic texts are very interesting. I 2841 02:26:17.440 --> 02:26:19.799 don't think that they are uh you know, nobody should 2842 02:26:19.799 --> 02:26:22.840 be killed for these beliefs, but it is very interesting, 2843 02:26:23.000 --> 02:26:25.959 uh literature, It is very interesting. 2844 02:26:26.479 --> 02:26:28.719 It's a if you really think about it, like that 2845 02:26:28.840 --> 02:26:32.319 last part that he said, you know where uh you know, 2846 02:26:32.440 --> 02:26:35.840 Jesus is being offered to to you know kind of 2847 02:26:35.879 --> 02:26:40.000 be to sit on the devil's throne or something like that. 2848 02:26:40.000 --> 02:26:43.000 That is within the kingdoms of Earth, that's what you mean. 2849 02:26:43.120 --> 02:26:46.000 Right, But like and and and then you got another 2850 02:26:46.079 --> 02:26:49.559 part which it just said about about how if this 2851 02:26:49.920 --> 02:26:53.280 was not the devil's playground, like it literally says that 2852 02:26:53.399 --> 02:26:56.920 it is right, like this is like everything and if 2853 02:26:56.920 --> 02:26:59.879 it's the devil's playground, whether you want to say that 2854 02:26:59.920 --> 02:27:02.520 he created it or not, at least he, you know, 2855 02:27:02.639 --> 02:27:04.520 is kind of sovereign over it, like he's kind of 2856 02:27:04.520 --> 02:27:05.840 the god of this world. 2857 02:27:06.440 --> 02:27:08.239 He's been given dominion over it. 2858 02:27:08.319 --> 02:27:10.319 That is what the Bible says, which even says in 2859 02:27:10.360 --> 02:27:12.879 the Bible right, It's like, it's so strange, and yet 2860 02:27:13.239 --> 02:27:15.959 the Gnostics are crazy because they believe that the material 2861 02:27:16.000 --> 02:27:18.799 realm is evil, even though it is understood that the 2862 02:27:18.799 --> 02:27:22.040 material realm is being governed by the devil. So it's 2863 02:27:22.079 --> 02:27:25.280 not that far fetched if you really think about it. 2864 02:27:25.399 --> 02:27:28.600 This is again a very heretical thought, because the Bible 2865 02:27:28.639 --> 02:27:31.319 tells us that God created the earth then later on 2866 02:27:31.479 --> 02:27:36.520 gave Satan dominion over it. The Gnostics and the Cathars 2867 02:27:36.559 --> 02:27:39.239 believe that the only way that Satan could have dominion 2868 02:27:39.280 --> 02:27:42.360 over this earth is if he created himself. So I 2869 02:27:42.440 --> 02:27:44.639 understand at least where they're drawing their conclusions from. 2870 02:27:44.680 --> 02:27:47.760 Whether you think that the devil created this place or 2871 02:27:47.799 --> 02:27:50.000 he's just a governor of it. Either way, it's like, 2872 02:27:50.559 --> 02:27:54.639 that's interesting, though, Why would God allow the devil to 2873 02:27:54.840 --> 02:27:59.840 rule a place of people of which he created and allegedly, 2874 02:28:00.639 --> 02:28:02.680 why wouldn't you just get away, you know, do away 2875 02:28:02.719 --> 02:28:06.159 with the devil at that point? I mean there, that's 2876 02:28:06.239 --> 02:28:09.639 one of the biggest questions, right Why why? Indeed, and 2877 02:28:09.719 --> 02:28:14.719 almost as if he has to because if you wanted 2878 02:28:14.719 --> 02:28:17.600 to do too. But I believe that his creation requires it. 2879 02:28:18.680 --> 02:28:22.040 But if he's the one that created all the rules, right, 2880 02:28:23.000 --> 02:28:26.680 like just logically think like forget, forget everything else, just 2881 02:28:26.719 --> 02:28:30.000 like trying to solve a mac problem. Right, If he's 2882 02:28:30.040 --> 02:28:32.879 the one that created the earth, why would you then 2883 02:28:33.000 --> 02:28:36.559 say we want the most I want to put in 2884 02:28:36.639 --> 02:28:41.559 a place of power essentially a judge of this entire 2885 02:28:41.680 --> 02:28:45.399 earth and a governor whatever whatever kind of you know, 2886 02:28:45.520 --> 02:28:46.840 municipality you want to apply to it. 2887 02:28:46.840 --> 02:28:49.760 But it's like a sheriff. Yeah, because God's the ultimate judge. 2888 02:28:49.799 --> 02:28:51.879 But you got the dude who's over here laying the 2889 02:28:51.879 --> 02:28:54.879 SmackDown on people. You know, I'm with you, Constable. 2890 02:28:54.959 --> 02:28:56.319 You know, if you're the one that wrote the code, 2891 02:28:56.319 --> 02:28:58.479 why would you write that into the code if you 2892 02:28:58.639 --> 02:29:00.280 just had to guess like your best. 2893 02:29:00.159 --> 02:29:03.680 Yes, I honestly don't know. These are one of the 2894 02:29:03.760 --> 02:29:07.479 biggest why questions that has plagued mankind since the beginning dude, 2895 02:29:07.680 --> 02:29:09.879 I do not know why we have to have this 2896 02:29:10.040 --> 02:29:12.879 go down this way. I feel like that's all part 2897 02:29:12.879 --> 02:29:15.239 of the divine plan and purpose, and I believe that 2898 02:29:15.280 --> 02:29:18.959 it kind of it's not It's not like God was 2899 02:29:19.000 --> 02:29:21.719 forced to have this happen. I believe that it happened 2900 02:29:21.719 --> 02:29:24.079 in spite of it, but at the same time, it 2901 02:29:24.159 --> 02:29:26.600 was all a part of the plan. Even still, all right, 2902 02:29:26.639 --> 02:29:29.520 we're talking about things that are like fuck five D chess, 2903 02:29:29.520 --> 02:29:32.000 We're talking like thirteen D chess here. I think it's 2904 02:29:32.040 --> 02:29:36.280 things that our human minds really can't wrap our heads around. Yeah. 2905 02:29:36.319 --> 02:29:39.479 Maybe, or the devil's the one that created this and 2906 02:29:39.520 --> 02:29:42.879 that's why he is the governor of it. Because you 2907 02:29:42.920 --> 02:29:46.680 think about it like that's like saying, all right, Jacob, 2908 02:29:47.760 --> 02:29:51.040 let's say you you have you have several kids, right, 2909 02:29:51.079 --> 02:29:53.559 you got a whole fucking basketball team over there. It's 2910 02:29:53.600 --> 02:29:57.520 like if you were to create all your kids. 2911 02:29:57.600 --> 02:30:04.079 And then put them with literally the most heroine addicted 2912 02:30:04.159 --> 02:30:08.440 babysitter of all time, I mean toutally murders, brutally rapes. 2913 02:30:08.479 --> 02:30:11.319 You're talking about like handing your kids over to somebody 2914 02:30:11.319 --> 02:30:14.639 worse than even ed Gin, Right, Like, huh, the most 2915 02:30:14.760 --> 02:30:19.280 unfathomable babysitter you could possibly imagine. But you love your 2916 02:30:19.319 --> 02:30:22.000 kids so much, right, you love your kids so much 2917 02:30:22.040 --> 02:30:25.040 and as a matter of fact, like you'd be willing 2918 02:30:25.040 --> 02:30:26.479 to go to the ends of the earth for them. 2919 02:30:26.479 --> 02:30:31.040 But let's put them under the jurisdiction of the most evil, 2920 02:30:31.200 --> 02:30:33.079 worst thing that you can possibly even imagine. 2921 02:30:33.079 --> 02:30:36.760 Would you do that personally? No? But we could look 2922 02:30:36.760 --> 02:30:39.280 at another example of history of people doing this. The Spartans, 2923 02:30:39.280 --> 02:30:41.879 for instance, they would send their eight year old boys 2924 02:30:42.120 --> 02:30:45.760 to the Udogi, which was the warrior training camp that 2925 02:30:45.799 --> 02:30:48.440 they would not leave until they were thirty, okay, And 2926 02:30:48.479 --> 02:30:51.239 there they would be raped by older boys. They would 2927 02:30:51.239 --> 02:30:53.079 be taught how to be violent and how to bring 2928 02:30:53.120 --> 02:30:57.040 out the absolute worst animalistics things of their nature. Now, 2929 02:30:57.079 --> 02:30:59.760 why would they do that, especially from these moms who 2930 02:31:00.079 --> 02:31:02.319 genuinely loved their babies. They were forced to do it, 2931 02:31:02.360 --> 02:31:05.360 and they did it anyway. But why because the overarching 2932 02:31:05.559 --> 02:31:08.159 goal was to turn them into the most fierce warriors 2933 02:31:08.159 --> 02:31:09.120 of the world had ever seen. 2934 02:31:09.399 --> 02:31:12.079 So you believe that God is trying to turn us 2935 02:31:12.079 --> 02:31:17.719 into fucking warrior Spartans? 2936 02:31:19.760 --> 02:31:21.319 Kind of guess what. 2937 02:31:21.280 --> 02:31:22.920 Do you think would be the reason for that? If 2938 02:31:22.920 --> 02:31:25.040 heaven is what we believe it is. You wouldn't necessarily 2939 02:31:25.120 --> 02:31:26.639 need to be a spartan in heaven, would you. 2940 02:31:27.239 --> 02:31:29.280 Oh? No, I do believe that there's a spiritual war 2941 02:31:29.360 --> 02:31:30.840 to come and that we will all have a role 2942 02:31:30.879 --> 02:31:32.959 to play in it. Yes, And I don't mean in 2943 02:31:33.000 --> 02:31:35.079 this lifetime, in the time that I am alive now, 2944 02:31:35.120 --> 02:31:37.120 I mean my soul one day when I get there, 2945 02:31:37.120 --> 02:31:39.120 there is more of a plan to play. I do 2946 02:31:39.200 --> 02:31:42.840 believe that. Yes. Is that written or is that just 2947 02:31:42.879 --> 02:31:45.200 a belief? Now? It's in the Book of Revelation. 2948 02:31:46.520 --> 02:31:48.440 What does it say about that that whenever you die, 2949 02:31:48.440 --> 02:31:51.079 that there's going to be a war in heaven. No, No, 2950 02:31:51.120 --> 02:31:53.520 there's gonna be a final battle that takes place here. 2951 02:31:54.000 --> 02:31:57.000 Now that being said, maybe I will be a part 2952 02:31:57.040 --> 02:31:59.760 of that warrior class, maybe I won't. Maybe whatever job 2953 02:31:59.760 --> 02:32:02.479 funk I have in heaven whenever I get there, will 2954 02:32:02.840 --> 02:32:05.120 whatever it is, I hope that it does serve God's 2955 02:32:05.120 --> 02:32:08.600 purpose to the fullest right. That that's my hope and dream. 2956 02:32:08.639 --> 02:32:10.799 But yeah, I do believe that what we do on 2957 02:32:10.840 --> 02:32:13.520 this life does echo through to eternity, and I think 2958 02:32:13.559 --> 02:32:15.799 that that also plays into the heavenly realm as well. 2959 02:32:16.600 --> 02:32:18.680 So even heaven sucks, is what you're saying. 2960 02:32:19.360 --> 02:32:22.879 No what that there's still war, there's still death, there's 2961 02:32:22.879 --> 02:32:25.680 still torment, there's still battle, there's still con. 2962 02:32:26.239 --> 02:32:30.280 There's death and torment and not no, no what. That's 2963 02:32:30.639 --> 02:32:33.680 That's what war is, isn't it. The final war won't 2964 02:32:33.719 --> 02:32:36.639 take place in heaven. I just said that it takes place. 2965 02:32:36.399 --> 02:32:40.040 On earth, right, But you will be coming from heaven 2966 02:32:40.079 --> 02:32:42.479 if you're dead, right, Like that's the idea that even 2967 02:32:42.520 --> 02:32:44.920 whenever you're in heaven, you still gotta do this shit. 2968 02:32:46.799 --> 02:32:49.959 Yeah, okay, no, so sing as a free lunch. I 2969 02:32:50.000 --> 02:32:52.399 guess so, I guess so. 2970 02:32:52.399 --> 02:32:56.719 So this is from This is actually from a Catholic 2971 02:32:56.719 --> 02:33:02.159 website called the Veritas Catholica atha dot com. So this 2972 02:33:02.200 --> 02:33:06.200 is from the Catholic's point of view. So it says, 2973 02:33:06.239 --> 02:33:09.399 how did Nissism challenge the true faith? The subtle danger 2974 02:33:09.440 --> 02:33:13.719 of Gnostic thought? And I thought, man, what an interesting article, right, 2975 02:33:13.799 --> 02:33:16.239 because how dare you have a mind of your own? 2976 02:33:17.479 --> 02:33:20.639 A lot? Like, you know, doing your own research is dangerous. 2977 02:33:21.920 --> 02:33:25.479 So it says, in the twilight years of the Apostolic age, 2978 02:33:25.799 --> 02:33:29.319 as the last disciples of Christ's original followers passed from 2979 02:33:29.360 --> 02:33:33.000 the scene, a new and dangerous movement began infiltrating Christian 2980 02:33:33.000 --> 02:33:36.959 communities across the Roman Empire. This movement, which would come 2981 02:33:37.079 --> 02:33:39.799 to be known as Narcissism, presented itself not as a 2982 02:33:39.920 --> 02:33:44.040 rival to Christianity, but as its truest, most spiritual expression. 2983 02:33:44.319 --> 02:33:49.639 Yet beneath its veneer of piety lay a radical reinterpretation, indeed, 2984 02:33:49.680 --> 02:33:53.600 a complete subversion of the Gospel message, posing the challenge 2985 02:33:53.600 --> 02:33:57.600 of Narcissism to true Christianity. The early church fathers recognize 2986 02:33:57.639 --> 02:34:01.879 this threat immediately. Sat Eraneus of Lions, writing around one 2987 02:34:01.959 --> 02:34:04.680 hundred and eighty a, d observed with alarm how these 2988 02:34:04.719 --> 02:34:08.159 new teachers put forth their own compositions with great audacity, 2989 02:34:08.200 --> 02:34:12.680 styling them Gospels, while really they deserve no such title. 2990 02:34:12.920 --> 02:34:15.879 His monumental work against Heresy stands as one of the 2991 02:34:15.920 --> 02:34:21.680 most important early witnesses to this spiritual battle, preserving for 2992 02:34:21.760 --> 02:34:24.879 prosperity both the arguments of the Gnostics and the Church's 2993 02:34:24.920 --> 02:34:29.479 decisive refutations. What made Nissism particularly dangerous was its ability 2994 02:34:29.520 --> 02:34:33.000 to adapt Christian terminology while emptying it of its true meaning. 2995 02:34:33.319 --> 02:34:37.280 As the late cardinal Jean Denielleu noted in his seminal 2996 02:34:37.319 --> 02:34:41.879 work the theology the theology of Jewish Christianity. The Gnostics 2997 02:34:41.879 --> 02:34:46.319 were masters of theological camouflage, adopting the language of faith 2998 02:34:46.360 --> 02:34:49.719 while subverting its content. This pattern would repeat itself throughout 2999 02:34:49.799 --> 02:34:53.319 church histories, making the study of ancient narcissism not merely 3000 02:34:53.319 --> 02:34:56.959 an academic exercise, but a vital preparation for recognizing the 3001 02:34:57.040 --> 02:35:01.879 challenge of narcissism to true Christianity and modern times. It says, 3002 02:35:02.399 --> 02:35:05.879 than to the philosophical and religious roots of Gnostic thought, 3003 02:35:07.479 --> 02:35:10.440 do you understand narcissism fully? We must examine its complete 3004 02:35:10.440 --> 02:35:13.440 origins and the religious and philosophical currents of the ancient world. 3005 02:35:13.799 --> 02:35:17.760 The movement did not emerge x nilo, but grew from 3006 02:35:17.760 --> 02:35:21.639 the rich soil of Hellenistic syncretism, drawing elements from multiple 3007 02:35:21.719 --> 02:35:26.680 traditions while remaining fundamentally alien to all of them. From Platonism, 3008 02:35:26.760 --> 02:35:30.559 the Gnostics borrowed the concept of radical dualism between spirit 3009 02:35:30.600 --> 02:35:33.559 and matter, though they pushed this division far beyond anything 3010 02:35:33.559 --> 02:35:38.120 playto envisioned. While the Athenian philosopher saw the material world 3011 02:35:38.200 --> 02:35:42.239 as an imperfect, imperfect reflection of ideal forms, the Gnostics 3012 02:35:42.319 --> 02:35:45.719 viewed creation as the product of an evil or ignorant demiurge, 3013 02:35:45.840 --> 02:35:48.719 a shocking departure from the Jewish and Christian understanding of 3014 02:35:48.760 --> 02:35:51.719 a good creation brought to brought into being by a 3015 02:35:51.760 --> 02:35:55.079 loving God. This theological innovation would become central to the 3016 02:35:55.120 --> 02:35:59.000 challenge of narcissism to true, true, true Christianity, as it 3017 02:35:59.559 --> 02:36:03.719 undermine the Christian doctrine of the goodness of creation. Persians 3018 02:36:03.799 --> 02:36:07.000 or e Astriism, contributed the dramatic cosmic struggle between light 3019 02:36:07.040 --> 02:36:10.239 and darkness, though the Gnostics transformed this into a narratives 3020 02:36:10.360 --> 02:36:14.360 of spiritual elites escaping from the material bondage rather than 3021 02:36:14.399 --> 02:36:18.079 the ultimate triumph of good over evil. Jewish mystical traditions, 3022 02:36:18.120 --> 02:36:23.840 particularly Mercaba mysticism in certain apocalyptic texts, provide a raw 3023 02:36:23.879 --> 02:36:28.719 material that Gnostics reinterpreted through their dualistic lens. Perhaps most dangerously, 3024 02:36:28.840 --> 02:36:34.799 even early Christian heterodox groups such as the followers of Synthus, 3025 02:36:35.000 --> 02:36:41.040 Simon Magus, and certain Encritite sects, provided the vocabulary in 3026 02:36:41.120 --> 02:36:43.879 some of the conceptual framework that Gnostic teachers would exploit. 3027 02:36:44.200 --> 02:36:48.360 Terms like pleroma or fullness, Eon, and even gnosis itself 3028 02:36:48.399 --> 02:36:52.319 were adopted and redefined within Gnostic systems, blurring the line 3029 02:36:52.360 --> 02:36:57.280 between orthodoxy and heresy and making these teachings especially difficult 3030 02:36:57.319 --> 02:37:01.000 to unmask. The second century Church fathers seeing Hippolytis is 3031 02:37:01.040 --> 02:37:05.120 A in his refutation of all heresies meticulously traced how 3032 02:37:05.159 --> 02:37:09.479 these various influences combined to form the complete Gnostic systems 3033 02:37:09.559 --> 02:37:11.959 that threatened Orthodox Christianity. 3034 02:37:13.120 --> 02:37:14.239 So then it just goes. 3035 02:37:14.040 --> 02:37:20.959 On about like why it views gnarscissism as very bad 3036 02:37:21.040 --> 02:37:24.200 and obviously an evil that needs to be extinguished and 3037 02:37:24.239 --> 02:37:26.600 stuff like that. So I'm not trying to say that 3038 02:37:26.719 --> 02:37:30.840 like you know, it was. I mean, I do understand 3039 02:37:31.159 --> 02:37:33.879 why it would be an issue for the Catholics. I 3040 02:37:33.959 --> 02:37:36.680 get it right, they're saying that essentially yo, like they're 3041 02:37:36.719 --> 02:37:39.120 saying that we're evil, They're saying that we have succumbed 3042 02:37:39.159 --> 02:37:41.879 to the material world. They're saying that we, you know, 3043 02:37:42.040 --> 02:37:46.559 worship the devil, essentially right. And but conversely, if you 3044 02:37:46.600 --> 02:37:48.799 look at it from the Gnostic point of view, that 3045 02:37:48.959 --> 02:37:52.200 is exactly what you know would happen. You know, if 3046 02:37:52.239 --> 02:37:54.639 you look at the Catholic Church, well, yeah, they you know, 3047 02:37:54.719 --> 02:37:57.239 the pope was the rigist man in Europe. The pope 3048 02:37:57.319 --> 02:37:59.879 did have riches and gold and all the fine linens 3049 02:38:00.000 --> 02:38:02.520 and you know. I mean it was a rich thing, 3050 02:38:02.600 --> 02:38:06.360 which you know, was something that you know, Jesus was 3051 02:38:06.360 --> 02:38:09.200 inherently against. You could argue, I mean he was not 3052 02:38:09.440 --> 02:38:11.479 about succumbing to the material world. I mean he probably 3053 02:38:11.520 --> 02:38:13.159 walked around with no shoes, you know what I mean, 3054 02:38:13.159 --> 02:38:16.079 maybe some songs, I don't know, he had sandals. But 3055 02:38:16.280 --> 02:38:19.719 to your point, yes, he lived a nomadic life of 3056 02:38:20.319 --> 02:38:23.479 poverty in which he instructed pretty much people to do. 3057 02:38:23.600 --> 02:38:26.399 But there was reasons for that. I'm with you. I'm 3058 02:38:26.399 --> 02:38:28.479 with you on this. The one Austics would see the 3059 02:38:28.520 --> 02:38:31.680 Catholics as the ultimate slap in the face of God, 3060 02:38:32.159 --> 02:38:35.040 especially the fact that they believe that they were worshiping Satan. 3061 02:38:35.440 --> 02:38:38.760 The Catholics are saying, you think we're worshiping Satan. Meanwhile 3062 02:38:38.799 --> 02:38:41.360 you're doing this type of shit. So you can understand 3063 02:38:41.360 --> 02:38:45.360 why these two groups saw them as the antithesis of each. 3064 02:38:45.159 --> 02:38:48.479 Other, right right, Which is interesting because if you got 3065 02:38:48.520 --> 02:38:53.440 Catholicism saying that they are the first I guess true church, 3066 02:38:53.680 --> 02:38:57.479 true like first followers of Jesus, I guess that have 3067 02:38:57.559 --> 02:38:59.360 really put it, put together all the books and all 3068 02:38:59.399 --> 02:39:02.600 the documentary and like if anybody knows how to follow Jesus, 3069 02:39:02.680 --> 02:39:04.920 it would be the Catholic Church, at least that's how 3070 02:39:04.959 --> 02:39:05.840 they would have you say. 3071 02:39:05.920 --> 02:39:06.120 Right. 3072 02:39:06.520 --> 02:39:12.760 Meanwhile, it's not necessarily that they're worshiping Jesus. And there's 3073 02:39:12.799 --> 02:39:17.440 a difference. I believe in following someone and trying to 3074 02:39:17.559 --> 02:39:20.959 replicate someone right like would you would like? So if 3075 02:39:21.000 --> 02:39:24.040 you're trying to be like Jesus, that's very different than 3076 02:39:24.120 --> 02:39:26.399 following Jesus. Would you disagree with that? 3077 02:39:27.000 --> 02:39:29.319 No, I think you're on something there. And again, if 3078 02:39:29.360 --> 02:39:32.520 you look at the Catholic Church, even the early Catholic Church, 3079 02:39:33.120 --> 02:39:37.200 and you compare that to the early churches right that 3080 02:39:37.280 --> 02:39:41.120 Paul was going and starting across the Mediterranean Sea, they 3081 02:39:41.159 --> 02:39:44.879 would look completely different from each other. Just so we're 3082 02:39:44.920 --> 02:39:47.159 all clear. Although the Catholics claimed that they were the 3083 02:39:47.239 --> 02:39:49.799 first Christians and all these things, when you look at 3084 02:39:49.799 --> 02:39:52.719 the original Church of Antioch, the original Church of Ephesus, 3085 02:39:52.760 --> 02:39:56.399 the original Church in rome Bro, that is not what 3086 02:39:56.440 --> 02:40:00.120 the Catholic Mass looks like today. This is when they 3087 02:40:00.239 --> 02:40:02.319 took it and put it into a human box and 3088 02:40:02.360 --> 02:40:05.120 tried to turn it into something else with a hierarchy instruction. 3089 02:40:05.200 --> 02:40:08.520 All these things. And keep in mind also Paul was 3090 02:40:08.600 --> 02:40:12.120 very clear that we should exonerate women. It was not 3091 02:40:12.200 --> 02:40:16.079 about keeping women under the fucking heel of mankind. There 3092 02:40:16.200 --> 02:40:19.399 was one mention to a very specific church about how 3093 02:40:19.399 --> 02:40:21.479 women are supposed to be silent and submissive. But even 3094 02:40:21.520 --> 02:40:24.879 within that letter, he praises a couple of women that 3095 02:40:24.959 --> 02:40:27.360 were in that church and calls them by name as 3096 02:40:27.360 --> 02:40:30.040 being amazing followers. And listen to the words that they say. 3097 02:40:30.079 --> 02:40:32.559 In all these things, people take things out of context. 3098 02:40:33.000 --> 02:40:34.799 And I am of the belief that the Catholic Church 3099 02:40:34.840 --> 02:40:36.680 took a lot of things out of context and made 3100 02:40:36.719 --> 02:40:40.000 it their own. Rather than following the way, they were 3101 02:40:40.040 --> 02:40:42.200 more focused on following the Catholic way. 3102 02:40:42.639 --> 02:40:45.920 Well, which is why you know, even they would say that, 3103 02:40:46.159 --> 02:40:49.959 like what is it called the Eucharist, which is what 3104 02:40:50.159 --> 02:40:53.040 the reason why they say the Eucharist would be bad. 3105 02:40:53.159 --> 02:40:56.280 First of all, it's it's of the physical world anyway, 3106 02:40:56.360 --> 02:40:58.479 So it's all bad right anyway, if you look at 3107 02:40:58.520 --> 02:41:00.440 it from that way. But if you think about it, 3108 02:41:00.719 --> 02:41:03.920 you know, whenever Jesus was talking to his followers apostles, 3109 02:41:03.920 --> 02:41:06.399 I can't remember. I think it was his apostles, whenever 3110 02:41:06.440 --> 02:41:08.399 he introduced and said that if you eat of me 3111 02:41:08.520 --> 02:41:10.440 and drink of my blood and all that stuff. Then 3112 02:41:10.719 --> 02:41:15.000 you're basically gonna be you know, you're what is the term, like, 3113 02:41:15.120 --> 02:41:19.280 basically you're gonna take on the right soul. 3114 02:41:19.719 --> 02:41:21.719 I don't know. He essentially was saying that if you 3115 02:41:21.799 --> 02:41:25.760 accept my sacrifice, then you will live forever. He wasn't saying, 3116 02:41:25.760 --> 02:41:28.440 actually eat my skin and drink the blood from my veins. 3117 02:41:28.760 --> 02:41:30.959 This was supposed to be a symbolic gesture. However, the 3118 02:41:30.959 --> 02:41:34.120 Catholics believe that that bread, that little wafer really does 3119 02:41:34.159 --> 02:41:36.959 become the physical flesh or Jesus once you eat it, 3120 02:41:37.000 --> 02:41:39.879 which that is mind blowing to me. But there was 3121 02:41:40.000 --> 02:41:43.040 even in inquisitions, dude, there were people that didn't believe 3122 02:41:43.079 --> 02:41:46.200 that that were imprisoned because they didn't believe that the 3123 02:41:46.239 --> 02:41:49.440 wafer becomes Jesus's skin when you eat it, which is 3124 02:41:49.520 --> 02:41:51.920 not what he was even saying, you know, it's not. 3125 02:41:52.239 --> 02:41:55.360 They took it literal, you know what I mean, And 3126 02:41:55.959 --> 02:41:57.920 so much so that like, and I've said this before, 3127 02:41:57.959 --> 02:42:00.959 but there was like fucking people that literally take it 3128 02:42:01.040 --> 02:42:03.680 literal that whenever you eat the wafer, that it literally 3129 02:42:03.760 --> 02:42:07.799 like creates Jesus's physical body inside. 3130 02:42:07.319 --> 02:42:11.319 Of you this day that believe that. Yeah, dude, some. 3131 02:42:11.280 --> 02:42:13.840 People went and got their shit tested and actually found 3132 02:42:13.840 --> 02:42:16.360 bits of flesh in their shit. So that's like it 3133 02:42:16.440 --> 02:42:19.239 confirms it in their mind that they literally took on Jesus, 3134 02:42:19.239 --> 02:42:19.639 which is. 3135 02:42:19.639 --> 02:42:24.239 Wild, dude. That is also pretty fucking insane to say. Like, 3136 02:42:24.280 --> 02:42:27.079 for instance, if you take a urine sample, you'll find 3137 02:42:27.159 --> 02:42:30.520 blood in it. Yeah, you know that's what the yellow 3138 02:42:30.559 --> 02:42:33.479 coloring is in your urine is blood. It's clear that 3139 02:42:33.479 --> 02:42:37.360 the blood of Jesus or yours. What to say that 3140 02:42:37.399 --> 02:42:39.639 you took it from a stool sample? Huh? I didn't 3141 02:42:39.639 --> 02:42:42.639 know that the yellow came from blood. Yeah, that's why 3142 02:42:42.680 --> 02:42:45.360 whenever it's like super dark, it means you're dehydrated. That's 3143 02:42:45.399 --> 02:42:47.879 more blood in your urine. Yeah. Fuck, how did I 3144 02:42:47.920 --> 02:42:52.719 not know that? I don't know that. Most people they 3145 02:42:52.760 --> 02:42:56.680 fucking should I know that. I don't know. Like you, 3146 02:42:57.120 --> 02:42:58.440 not to call you out, but you won't even know 3147 02:42:58.479 --> 02:43:01.040 your blood type. That blows my There's a ton of 3148 02:43:01.079 --> 02:43:03.159 adults out there that just are walking around that don't 3149 02:43:03.200 --> 02:43:05.399 know their blood type. And it's like, bro, how how 3150 02:43:05.399 --> 02:43:08.159 do you not? Because whenever it's my time, it's my time, baby, 3151 02:43:08.440 --> 02:43:16.639 What the fuck? Okay? But into the whole try no Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, Well, 3152 02:43:16.680 --> 02:43:18.719 according to the Cathars, you should have offered yourself as 3153 02:43:18.719 --> 02:43:20.479 soon as you got the holy hands laid on you, 3154 02:43:21.000 --> 02:43:23.360 which now you show the mind. It's not that you 3155 02:43:23.399 --> 02:43:27.399 should have it's just that it was accepted. Yeah, Which 3156 02:43:28.079 --> 02:43:31.639 then what's the purpose of living well? To wake up? 3157 02:43:31.959 --> 02:43:32.760 To wake others up? 3158 02:43:33.879 --> 02:43:34.479 Ah? 3159 02:43:34.520 --> 02:43:37.000 I see, to grow the movement because they wouldn't have kids, 3160 02:43:37.000 --> 02:43:39.440 because that's evil inherently. So you got to grow the 3161 02:43:39.440 --> 02:43:44.239 movement by proselytizing the people. Sound familiar, Yeah, except we 3162 02:43:44.280 --> 02:43:50.399 want to have kids. Yeah, and keep everybody in chains. Weird. Yeah, 3163 02:43:50.760 --> 02:43:54.040 according to the fucking Cathars, that's what I'm doing. I'm 3164 02:43:54.079 --> 02:43:56.639 just imprisoning souls left and right over here. But yeah, 3165 02:43:56.680 --> 02:43:59.799 I'm sorry, I that's not how I get down. But 3166 02:44:00.200 --> 02:44:02.920 but then the whole stool sample conversation, Bro, do you 3167 02:44:02.959 --> 02:44:06.319 realize how much dead skin cells you ingest on a 3168 02:44:06.360 --> 02:44:09.360 regular daily basis, or how about hair, or how about 3169 02:44:09.399 --> 02:44:11.239 even the bits of a nail or something like that. 3170 02:44:11.600 --> 02:44:15.200 So to find human DNA in your stool sample, did 3171 02:44:15.200 --> 02:44:19.200 they confirm if it was their DNA or maybe a 3172 02:44:19.280 --> 02:44:21.479 hair that fell into a burger at a place that 3173 02:44:21.479 --> 02:44:23.040 they went and ate and they didn't see the hair 3174 02:44:23.079 --> 02:44:24.959 and they ate it and things like this. It's like, dude, 3175 02:44:25.600 --> 02:44:28.239 to say that you found DNA in your stool or 3176 02:44:28.239 --> 02:44:32.040 blood or urine, is like, that doesn't confirm the Eucharist. 3177 02:44:32.120 --> 02:44:36.399 But if that's what justification you need to decide that 3178 02:44:36.440 --> 02:44:39.440 your faith is legitimate, then like, all right, God bless you, 3179 02:44:39.680 --> 02:44:43.360 but that is not how you should be looking at things. Well, 3180 02:44:43.399 --> 02:44:45.079 I wanted to pull this up right here too. This 3181 02:44:45.159 --> 02:44:49.079 is on the same website, but it says why spiritual 3182 02:44:49.200 --> 02:44:53.079 but not religious or my truth is gnostic at heart, 3183 02:44:53.159 --> 02:44:54.920 which I agree. I believe that. 3184 02:44:55.000 --> 02:44:59.440 Yeah, yeah, It says subjectivism and relativism. It says gnostic 3185 02:44:59.440 --> 02:45:03.079 thought often and emphasizes subjective personal knowledge or gnosis, as 3186 02:45:03.079 --> 02:45:07.559 the key to salvation rather than an objective or communal truth. 3187 02:45:07.719 --> 02:45:10.200 Gnostics believe that truth was hidden from the masses and 3188 02:45:10.239 --> 02:45:15.280 only accept accessible to a select group of enlightened individuals. Similarly, 3189 02:45:15.399 --> 02:45:18.239 the modern idea of my truth suggests that truth is 3190 02:45:18.280 --> 02:45:22.840 subjective and individualized rather than universal or objective. This is 3191 02:45:22.840 --> 02:45:25.799 a hallmark of gnostic thinking. Truth is not something grounded 3192 02:45:25.799 --> 02:45:29.040 and shared reality or tradition, but is rather constructed by 3193 02:45:29.040 --> 02:45:31.680 the individual and then it says the escape from the 3194 02:45:31.719 --> 02:45:35.399 material world. Nascissism traditionally rejects the physical world as something 3195 02:45:35.440 --> 02:45:40.639 inferior or even evil, created by the ignorant or malevolent demiurge. 3196 02:45:40.719 --> 02:45:44.000 The modern spiritual seeker might be influenced by the idea 3197 02:45:44.040 --> 02:45:49.520 of transcending ordinary material existence, emphasizing an inner spiritual journey 3198 02:45:49.559 --> 02:45:53.000 over engagement with the material world. In religious community, this 3199 02:45:53.079 --> 02:45:56.200 resembles the gnostic desire to escape the confines of physical 3200 02:45:56.239 --> 02:45:59.360 reality and gain spiritual enlightenment apart from the body or 3201 02:45:59.399 --> 02:46:06.200 material cancer. Then there's individualism over community. Narcissism often fostered 3202 02:46:06.319 --> 02:46:09.959 an elitist mindset where only those with access to secret 3203 02:46:09.959 --> 02:46:14.120 knowledge could be truly saved. Modern phrases like spiritual but 3204 02:46:14.239 --> 02:46:17.879 not religious reflect a similar disdain for communal religious structures 3205 02:46:17.879 --> 02:46:22.040 in favor of personal, individualized spirituality. It reduces faith to 3206 02:46:22.079 --> 02:46:24.840 a private, personal affair, which is a stark contrast to 3207 02:46:24.879 --> 02:46:29.159 the communal aspect of traditional Christianity. So I just wanted to, 3208 02:46:29.200 --> 02:46:31.280 you know, throw that out there with you know, it's 3209 02:46:31.319 --> 02:46:35.280 interesting because it's talking about objective truths, and you know, 3210 02:46:36.200 --> 02:46:38.959 here's the deal, Like I don't. 3211 02:46:38.680 --> 02:46:41.760 Know me and you have had this debate a time 3212 02:46:41.879 --> 02:46:44.079 or two. I mean, yeah, you and I disagree on 3213 02:46:44.120 --> 02:46:47.319 what truth is. And that's the same debate that the 3214 02:46:47.360 --> 02:46:51.239 Gnostics were having, that the Cathars were having against organized religion, 3215 02:46:51.239 --> 02:46:53.159 even though the Cathars were an organized religion. 3216 02:46:53.159 --> 02:46:55.920 But yeah, my point is is that you have both 3217 02:46:56.000 --> 02:47:00.879 sex that are saying that their subjective truth is objective truth. 3218 02:47:01.719 --> 02:47:05.159 So and that's that's basically my point is that you know, 3219 02:47:05.200 --> 02:47:07.959 you can't sit here and say that every single thing 3220 02:47:08.079 --> 02:47:09.520 in the Bible is objective. 3221 02:47:09.639 --> 02:47:11.920 A lot of it is subjective. 3222 02:47:11.479 --> 02:47:15.760 Like it can be viewed through the lens of objective, 3223 02:47:15.959 --> 02:47:18.760 but that is only you're accepting of that truth. Just 3224 02:47:18.799 --> 02:47:21.159 because you accept the truth does not mean that it 3225 02:47:21.200 --> 02:47:24.680 can be you know, like you can still poke holes 3226 02:47:24.719 --> 02:47:28.159 in that as has been done, you know, right. That's 3227 02:47:28.159 --> 02:47:30.280 what I'm trying to say, is that if it was objective, 3228 02:47:30.319 --> 02:47:32.559 there can be no holes that are punched into it, 3229 02:47:32.840 --> 02:47:33.760 like it's objective. 3230 02:47:33.959 --> 02:47:37.280 Right. Respectfully, I disagree with you and me and you 3231 02:47:37.319 --> 02:47:39.200 have very different points on this. I believe that the 3232 02:47:39.239 --> 02:47:42.680 Bible is objective truth and it's not open to interpretation 3233 02:47:42.799 --> 02:47:43.680 about what is and is not. 3234 02:47:43.760 --> 02:47:47.159 Factually, the key term was you said, I believe the 3235 02:47:47.159 --> 02:47:50.200 Bible is objective. There is no belief in objectivity. 3236 02:47:50.959 --> 02:47:54.000 Well, if I objective or it's not objective, then that 3237 02:47:54.040 --> 02:47:55.920 would spark a whole other debate that we don't need 3238 02:47:55.959 --> 02:47:59.079 to have. I yeah, I see the Bible is completely objective. 3239 02:48:00.079 --> 02:48:04.159 You see it? Yes, the world not the enter if 3240 02:48:04.159 --> 02:48:05.120 the here's the deal. 3241 02:48:05.319 --> 02:48:09.200 If it was objective, nobody would disagree with it, Like, 3242 02:48:09.280 --> 02:48:11.440 everybody would get on board. There wouldn't be a million 3243 02:48:11.479 --> 02:48:15.159 different you know, atheists and religious people and spiritual people 3244 02:48:15.239 --> 02:48:17.760 and philosophical people. If it was so objective and so 3245 02:48:17.920 --> 02:48:21.959 clear and so obvious, you wouldn't have other people not 3246 02:48:22.120 --> 02:48:23.559 seeing the same thing that you're seeing. 3247 02:48:24.120 --> 02:48:26.520 So that being said, how many of these people have 3248 02:48:26.639 --> 02:48:28.159 we even had on the show to say, look, we 3249 02:48:28.239 --> 02:48:31.360 understand the Bible is true, but it's been misinterpreted in 3250 02:48:31.399 --> 02:48:33.440 such a way that mankind has turned it to where 3251 02:48:33.479 --> 02:48:36.479 I don't want to be considered a Christian. Nobody denies 3252 02:48:36.559 --> 02:48:39.719 the truth of the Bible. They deny the way that 3253 02:48:39.760 --> 02:48:43.879 the Bible has been used. Uh, you can't say nobody 3254 02:48:43.959 --> 02:48:48.040 denies the truth of the Bible. That is another sube. 3255 02:48:48.280 --> 02:48:49.879 But there's also a audience that will tell you that 3256 02:48:49.920 --> 02:48:52.360 one plus one equals three. It's yeah, it's not even 3257 02:48:52.399 --> 02:48:53.079 the vast majority. 3258 02:48:53.120 --> 02:48:55.159 The vast majority of religious people would say that, but 3259 02:48:55.200 --> 02:48:56.959 not the vast majority of all people that have ever 3260 02:48:57.000 --> 02:48:58.040 existed on earth would. 3261 02:48:58.520 --> 02:49:02.200 Oh, there's biblical scholars that are atheist. Dude, Yeah, I know. 3262 02:49:02.440 --> 02:49:04.000 That's what I'm trying to say is that you can't 3263 02:49:04.000 --> 02:49:06.879 say the vast majority believe that this is true, because 3264 02:49:06.920 --> 02:49:07.520 that's not true. 3265 02:49:07.559 --> 02:49:10.639 That's not a true statement. Most people that you talk 3266 02:49:10.719 --> 02:49:14.000 to will say that, yes, the Bible is sound truth, 3267 02:49:14.520 --> 02:49:18.879 but religion has made it something else, not not most 3268 02:49:18.879 --> 02:49:21.440 people I talk to, most people we've had on this 3269 02:49:21.479 --> 02:49:24.959 show will say that. Maybe some of them. 3270 02:49:25.040 --> 02:49:29.200 Yeah, I wouldn't say most. Okay, I mean there's a lot. 3271 02:49:29.239 --> 02:49:31.159 I'm not even trying to water it down. There are 3272 02:49:31.200 --> 02:49:33.280 definitely a lot of people that look at the Bible 3273 02:49:33.280 --> 02:49:35.520 as if it's truth. But you can't just say that 3274 02:49:35.600 --> 02:49:39.000 they are the vast majority and watering down those that 3275 02:49:39.120 --> 02:49:39.600 question it. 3276 02:49:40.280 --> 02:49:44.360 Aside from the Book of Genesis right which there's miraculous 3277 02:49:44.440 --> 02:49:48.440 unexplainable things, and aside from the miracles that Jesus performed, 3278 02:49:49.040 --> 02:49:53.959 everything else, aside from the prophetic messages that have yet 3279 02:49:54.000 --> 02:49:57.959 to pass. Let's give those distinctions. Now, all other parts 3280 02:49:57.959 --> 02:50:01.079 of the Bible have been historically fact to be correct 3281 02:50:01.079 --> 02:50:05.959 and accurate, not true, aside from the creation stories and 3282 02:50:06.000 --> 02:50:08.840 the whole everything from the Book of Genesis, aside from 3283 02:50:08.840 --> 02:50:11.399 the miracles of Jesus, and aside from prophetic messages. 3284 02:50:11.680 --> 02:50:16.799 Yeah, Like, give an example of something that has absolutely 3285 02:50:16.840 --> 02:50:18.799 been proven true without a shadow of a doubt. 3286 02:50:20.079 --> 02:50:22.959 Well, there's examples in the Old Testament of certain kings 3287 02:50:22.959 --> 02:50:25.319 that presided over certain lands, and they give the time 3288 02:50:25.360 --> 02:50:28.120 stamps to where this happened, and they talk about certain 3289 02:50:28.159 --> 02:50:31.520 things that happened in this land, famines or a war 3290 02:50:31.559 --> 02:50:34.200 that took place, or whatever the case is, that nobody 3291 02:50:34.239 --> 02:50:37.920 really saw as a truth until later archaeological records proved 3292 02:50:37.920 --> 02:50:40.000 Oh yeah, no, that absolutely happened, just like the Bible 3293 02:50:40.040 --> 02:50:42.920 of let's goo and New Ti. We're talking New Ti here, Okay, 3294 02:50:43.000 --> 02:50:45.600 let's talk about that. When they're talking about which Roman 3295 02:50:46.000 --> 02:50:48.799 Caesar was in charge during a certain time frame, or 3296 02:50:48.799 --> 02:50:51.079 when they're talking about how the Christians were being martyred 3297 02:50:51.360 --> 02:50:54.520 by the local Jewish population. Again, all this has been 3298 02:50:54.559 --> 02:50:59.159 documented to be correct outside of biblical sources. Interesting. 3299 02:50:59.760 --> 02:51:01.680 I mean, yeah, there's I'm sure that there's bits of 3300 02:51:01.680 --> 02:51:04.879 truth throughout it. But to say that just because you 3301 02:51:04.959 --> 02:51:08.040 are naming certain things that happened and you're including it 3302 02:51:08.120 --> 02:51:10.840 into your story and your worldview of perspective, To say 3303 02:51:10.879 --> 02:51:13.280 that all of it is absolutely true just because there 3304 02:51:13.280 --> 02:51:15.719 are facets of facts in there is not. 3305 02:51:16.559 --> 02:51:19.399 That's not logical at all. No, I mean we I'm 3306 02:51:19.399 --> 02:51:22.000 not going to list out the entire Bible. This is 3307 02:51:22.000 --> 02:51:25.159 not a Bible show. But yes, to say that the 3308 02:51:25.319 --> 02:51:28.239 entire storyline of the Bible has been proven to be accurate, 3309 02:51:29.280 --> 02:51:32.840 that's That's like there's a lot of scholars with years 3310 02:51:32.920 --> 02:51:35.319 and years worth of trying to debunk the Bible under 3311 02:51:35.360 --> 02:51:37.479 their belt that can't do so. But then there's also 3312 02:51:37.520 --> 02:51:40.399 a lot of scholars that have that's incorrect. 3313 02:51:41.000 --> 02:51:43.959 I can look, give me a day and I will 3314 02:51:43.959 --> 02:51:47.799 come up with countless scholars that have debunked a lot 3315 02:51:47.840 --> 02:51:48.840 of things of the Bible. 3316 02:51:49.719 --> 02:51:52.600 They may have debunked some of the philosophical conversations, but 3317 02:51:52.639 --> 02:51:56.639 they cannot debunk the historical precedence to it. I don't 3318 02:51:56.680 --> 02:51:59.079 know there's no historical precedence to Moses. But we already 3319 02:51:59.120 --> 02:52:01.440 went there, and we're not just said aside from Genesis. 3320 02:52:01.479 --> 02:52:02.319 I just mentioned that. 3321 02:52:02.440 --> 02:52:06.680 Now, look, if your house of cards is built on lies, 3322 02:52:07.440 --> 02:52:11.319 then the top tippy top card of the last statement 3323 02:52:11.399 --> 02:52:13.440 that was talked about in the New Testament, when you're 3324 02:52:13.440 --> 02:52:15.040 talking about revelation, is. 3325 02:52:15.000 --> 02:52:18.680 Even built on shaky ground. That's a prophetic book. Like 3326 02:52:18.719 --> 02:52:21.559 I said, we're talking about things that can be historically 3327 02:52:21.600 --> 02:52:24.840 fact checked. Prophecy cannot be historically fact check. That's why 3328 02:52:24.840 --> 02:52:26.520 I gave the distinction to leave that one out. 3329 02:52:27.040 --> 02:52:29.920 Okay, okay, But what I'm saying is is that if 3330 02:52:29.959 --> 02:52:34.959 it's built on myth, that's all I'm saying. You know, if, 3331 02:52:35.239 --> 02:52:38.719 for example, if Moses was a mythological character and not 3332 02:52:38.840 --> 02:52:40.879 an actual real character, I'm not even saying that that's 3333 02:52:40.920 --> 02:52:45.520 the truth, but I'm saying, what if, right, if he is, then. 3334 02:52:45.319 --> 02:52:51.360 It's built on very very shitty foundation. Personally, Jesus, we know, 3335 02:52:51.559 --> 02:52:55.559 was a real dude. Historically, secularly and religiously. He walked 3336 02:52:55.600 --> 02:52:58.079 the earth, he died and rose again, fulfilling prophecies. Now 3337 02:52:58.079 --> 02:53:01.120 that being said, when Jesus said to hold the Torah 3338 02:53:01.159 --> 02:53:06.159 as truth, I listen, the Torah does include the Book 3339 02:53:06.200 --> 02:53:09.000 of Genesis. Now, that does not mean that every single 3340 02:53:09.000 --> 02:53:11.360 thing within it teaches us every step of how things 3341 02:53:11.399 --> 02:53:13.840 took place. I believe it is our portion. It is 3342 02:53:13.879 --> 02:53:15.440 the story to teach us how we got to the 3343 02:53:15.440 --> 02:53:17.239 point of needing Jesus, and I take it as that, 3344 02:53:17.399 --> 02:53:20.479 and I'm good with that. But yes, Jesus also said 3345 02:53:20.520 --> 02:53:23.680 to acknowledge the Torah as facts. Therefore I do. 3346 02:53:25.440 --> 02:53:28.600 I mean, I'm not coming at your beliefs like that. 3347 02:53:28.680 --> 02:53:30.959 And that's the thing, like, I'm not trying to dissuade 3348 02:53:30.959 --> 02:53:33.920 anybody from what they believe in. I'm really not just 3349 02:53:34.200 --> 02:53:38.559 I'm just giving at least some I'm trying to balance 3350 02:53:38.600 --> 02:53:42.600 it out here so that everybody else's perspective is not crazy. 3351 02:53:42.719 --> 02:53:45.319 They're not going to hell. They're not you know less 3352 02:53:45.360 --> 02:53:47.799 than you. You're not to be judgmental, which you know 3353 02:53:48.040 --> 02:53:50.559 I'm not even saying to you. I'm saying, we have 3354 02:53:50.840 --> 02:53:54.520 people out there that absolutely believe that anybody that believes 3355 02:53:54.559 --> 02:53:59.440 differently from me is obviously going to hell right Well, 3356 02:54:00.040 --> 02:54:01.639 to be honest, I asked you that same question a 3357 02:54:01.639 --> 02:54:02.319 couple of years ago. 3358 02:54:03.520 --> 02:54:05.680 Okay, I am not the one to make the judgment. 3359 02:54:06.040 --> 02:54:07.959 I know that the Bible says to do this, and 3360 02:54:08.000 --> 02:54:09.680 I believe that if you follow it, you go to heaven. 3361 02:54:09.959 --> 02:54:11.440 If you don't follow it, do you go to hell? 3362 02:54:11.639 --> 02:54:13.799 The Bible says that. But I'm also not the one 3363 02:54:13.799 --> 02:54:16.920 in the judgment seat to cast judgment on anybody. So 3364 02:54:17.040 --> 02:54:18.760 I can't make that kind of a claim. 3365 02:54:18.559 --> 02:54:21.040 Right, It's not a judgment, it's a belief, right, Like, 3366 02:54:21.159 --> 02:54:24.680 but even still you hold true the belief that I mean, 3367 02:54:24.799 --> 02:54:26.399 by your book, I'm going to Hell. 3368 02:54:27.799 --> 02:54:29.760 I can't make that distinction, dude. I don't know what's 3369 02:54:29.799 --> 02:54:31.239 going on in your heart of heart. No, but you 3370 02:54:31.280 --> 02:54:35.120 know the rules. I know the rules, sure, and according 3371 02:54:35.159 --> 02:54:37.360 to the rules to use the sacrifice, then like you're 3372 02:54:37.399 --> 02:54:39.159 not gonna have your name written in the Book of Life, 3373 02:54:39.159 --> 02:54:41.479 and like, okay, but I'm not the dude to make 3374 02:54:41.479 --> 02:54:44.040 the determination whether Jonathan and his heart of hearts has 3375 02:54:44.040 --> 02:54:47.040 acknowledged Jesus Lord and Savior or not. That is between 3376 02:54:47.040 --> 02:54:48.959 you and God. That is not up to Jacob to decide. 3377 02:54:49.040 --> 02:54:50.680 And it's also not up for me to decide to 3378 02:54:50.680 --> 02:54:53.920 look down on anybody for any of that. That is 3379 02:54:53.959 --> 02:54:55.479 a them and God thing. Right. 3380 02:54:55.520 --> 02:54:58.159 I do not acknowledge Jesus as my Lord and Savior. 3381 02:54:58.319 --> 02:55:01.079 I mean, and I don't say that's SPI fully, it's 3382 02:55:01.239 --> 02:55:02.680 just not my belief. 3383 02:55:02.920 --> 02:55:04.600 And that is a thing between you and God. 3384 02:55:04.639 --> 02:55:09.280 Brother, So by your belief, by those standards you and 3385 02:55:09.479 --> 02:55:11.479 not only I'm not even just coming after you, but 3386 02:55:11.520 --> 02:55:14.479 most people would look at me and say, wow, have 3387 02:55:14.600 --> 02:55:17.479 a fun ride to the to the dark Lord, right, 3388 02:55:17.600 --> 02:55:18.879 And and I get it. 3389 02:55:18.959 --> 02:55:20.559 I mean, it's it's a belief system. 3390 02:55:20.639 --> 02:55:22.920 Like there has to be you know, checks and balances 3391 02:55:22.959 --> 02:55:26.200 and beliefs and you know, weighing of the heart and 3392 02:55:26.239 --> 02:55:29.000 stuff like that. Right, But like I'm just saying, I 3393 02:55:29.040 --> 02:55:31.399 don't know, like I feel like that. That is a 3394 02:55:31.479 --> 02:55:34.120 more you want to talk about, you know, the round 3395 02:55:34.200 --> 02:55:37.639 Earth and flat Earth being divisive. That is way more 3396 02:55:37.719 --> 02:55:39.520 divisive than anything. 3397 02:55:39.639 --> 02:55:41.799 And it had been for thousands of years, dude. 3398 02:55:41.879 --> 02:55:46.520 It's the reason for religious wars. It is the underlying, 3399 02:55:46.680 --> 02:55:50.239 absolute reason for religious wars. You think differently from me, 3400 02:55:50.680 --> 02:55:51.639 You're already. 3401 02:55:51.280 --> 02:55:53.079 Going to hell. Let me do God's job for you. 3402 02:55:53.559 --> 02:55:56.120 But take away religion. That's the same reason for political wars. 3403 02:55:56.520 --> 02:55:58.000 That was the reason for the Civil War, for the 3404 02:55:58.040 --> 02:56:00.799 Revolutionary War, for the French Revolution, for the all of 3405 02:56:00.799 --> 02:56:05.719 these things. Beliefs are what cause conflict. Yes, it's barbaric, 3406 02:56:06.879 --> 02:56:10.920 it's human nature. It is human nature to be warring, 3407 02:56:11.159 --> 02:56:15.200 whether that's a religious reason or resource reason, a political reason, whatever, And. 3408 02:56:15.079 --> 02:56:18.559 That is the divine difference, sir. What I'm trying to say, 3409 02:56:18.600 --> 02:56:21.520 you just said it perfectly. It's human nature. What the 3410 02:56:21.520 --> 02:56:25.120 Cathars and the Gnostics believed is that we are temporarily 3411 02:56:25.440 --> 02:56:28.360 in these human bodies, but we must not succumb to, 3412 02:56:29.040 --> 02:56:32.760 you know, the human nature, like it is against our 3413 02:56:32.840 --> 02:56:35.559 nature to be of human nature. 3414 02:56:35.760 --> 02:56:37.319 So therefore, anything that you. 3415 02:56:37.280 --> 02:56:40.079 Carry out as a result of, you know, being in 3416 02:56:40.120 --> 02:56:43.799 this world and of this world is inherently evil. So therefore, 3417 02:56:44.120 --> 02:56:47.000 if you are looking and judging and condemning and killing 3418 02:56:47.040 --> 02:56:49.920 and murdering and all this other shit, it is in 3419 02:56:49.959 --> 02:56:54.319 the human nature, which therefore is the devil's playground in 3420 02:56:54.319 --> 02:56:56.920 the first place, is their argument. So just to kind 3421 02:56:56.959 --> 02:56:59.559 of give a little credence here, it does make a 3422 02:56:59.639 --> 02:57:03.200 little more sense on that side, right, yeah, And I. 3423 02:57:03.120 --> 02:57:05.719 Can respectively sup portion of the philosophy that goes behind 3424 02:57:05.719 --> 02:57:08.159 that one hundred percent. But at the same time, we 3425 02:57:08.200 --> 02:57:10.319 do have to live our life in this world, and 3426 02:57:10.360 --> 02:57:13.040 if conflict comes to us, are you going to just 3427 02:57:13.200 --> 02:57:15.559 lay there and let it happen to you? Or Are 3428 02:57:15.600 --> 02:57:18.000 you going to take up arms and defend yourself against 3429 02:57:18.040 --> 02:57:23.799 whatever's trying to attack you? WWJD indeed, and he said 3430 02:57:23.799 --> 02:57:27.360 to carry a sword. Yeah, he show did so, And 3431 02:57:27.600 --> 02:57:28.639 so I wanted to get over here. 3432 02:57:28.639 --> 02:57:31.200 So I just wanted to give a little trying to 3433 02:57:31.200 --> 02:57:35.000 show both sides here because, like I said, I I'm 3434 02:57:35.000 --> 02:57:38.879 not a Cathar. I like looking into Gnosticism. I like 3435 02:57:39.040 --> 02:57:42.319 certain parts of narcissism. I wouldn't necessarily consider myself a Gnostic. 3436 02:57:43.440 --> 02:57:45.559 I like certain parts of the Bible. I don't consider 3437 02:57:45.600 --> 02:57:47.840 myself a Christian, you know what I mean? And I'm 3438 02:57:47.879 --> 02:57:50.879 somebody call it cherry picking, whatever you want to say. 3439 02:57:51.000 --> 02:57:55.000 I'm just saying I like looking at certain things from 3440 02:57:55.159 --> 02:57:59.639 certain spiritualities and religions and philosophies and seeing like, where 3441 02:58:00.120 --> 02:58:01.360 you know, my spirit. 3442 02:58:01.079 --> 02:58:04.399 Aligns with You're an eclectic eclectic? 3443 02:58:04.479 --> 02:58:07.719 Yeah, absolutely, And so I was like, all right, they 3444 02:58:07.799 --> 02:58:09.920 keep on saying nosis, and for anybody that doesn't know 3445 02:58:09.959 --> 02:58:11.799 what nosis is, it keeps on saying that it's a 3446 02:58:11.879 --> 02:58:16.360 secret knowledge. And I was like, it's not secret, like 3447 02:58:16.440 --> 02:58:18.520 secret society, Like you have to. 3448 02:58:18.399 --> 02:58:22.360 Go through an initiation. That's exactly how the Gnostic Church 3449 02:58:22.440 --> 02:58:24.520 did things. And the cath Our Church did things. 3450 02:58:24.479 --> 02:58:29.840 Initially, yeah, but the underlying current of narcissism is not 3451 02:58:30.200 --> 02:58:33.600 entirely that. And so I just pulled it up. I said, 3452 02:58:33.600 --> 02:58:37.639 define nosis. So nosis is a Greek word meaning knowledge 3453 02:58:37.760 --> 02:58:41.799 or awareness. That's all nosis is. It's just a knowledge 3454 02:58:41.879 --> 02:58:45.840 or an awareness awareness that is inherent within you, often 3455 02:58:45.879 --> 02:58:49.799 referring to spiritual or esoteric knowledge that is essential for salvation. 3456 02:58:50.239 --> 02:58:56.000 In Gnostic beliefs, it emphasizes personal, experiential understanding rather than 3457 02:58:56.079 --> 02:58:59.600 intellectual knowledge. So it's more of an inner understanding rather 3458 02:58:59.680 --> 02:59:02.680 than gaining some intellect from a college or whatever. 3459 02:59:02.920 --> 02:59:05.760 Right I mean, but both can be true at the 3460 02:59:05.799 --> 02:59:10.239 same time. It's like it's like the mystery schools, right, 3461 02:59:10.319 --> 02:59:13.399 these mystery cults of ancient Greece and ancient Rome, the 3462 02:59:13.440 --> 02:59:17.040 same thing that the Gnostics did their uh basically based 3463 02:59:17.200 --> 02:59:20.159 their practices off of. And then, like we just learned 3464 02:59:20.200 --> 02:59:22.520 about with the Cathars, the PREFECTI you could only do 3465 02:59:22.559 --> 02:59:25.559 that once you were initiated, and then they would teach 3466 02:59:25.600 --> 02:59:26.959 you all of the ways of how to be a 3467 02:59:26.959 --> 02:59:30.520 good Cathar, right right, And so whenever you say test 3468 02:59:30.559 --> 02:59:33.360 the spirit, they they kind of tested the spirit a 3469 02:59:33.399 --> 02:59:36.319 little bit more than some other people would have. I 3470 02:59:36.319 --> 02:59:38.000 don't know. When I say test the spirit, I'm saying 3471 02:59:38.040 --> 02:59:40.520 that if the knowledge is secret, then it's not something 3472 02:59:40.520 --> 02:59:41.159 you should deal with. 3473 02:59:41.479 --> 02:59:43.440 Yeah, but it's not necessarily secret. It's something that you 3474 02:59:43.479 --> 02:59:46.319 would unlock within yourself. A secret that you're keeping from 3475 02:59:46.319 --> 02:59:48.639 yourself is what they're what they're saying. 3476 02:59:49.760 --> 02:59:52.000 Okay, they're gonna they're gonna portray it that way, just 3477 02:59:52.000 --> 02:59:53.840 like every good cult leader will tell you that, like 3478 02:59:54.239 --> 02:59:56.719 once you drink the kool aid, you'll gain the knowledge 3479 02:59:56.799 --> 02:59:59.239 within yourself of dot dot dot. But you have to 3480 02:59:59.280 --> 03:00:01.479 be taught that by somebody. And if they're not willing 3481 03:00:01.479 --> 03:00:04.239 to teach you unless you're initiated into the sect, then 3482 03:00:04.280 --> 03:00:06.680 that's a problem. 3483 03:00:06.000 --> 03:00:08.319 M Yeah, but you had to be taught a lot 3484 03:00:08.319 --> 03:00:11.760 of things to follow a religion too, So that's. 3485 03:00:11.600 --> 03:00:14.360 Not secret knowledge at all. It's not something you have 3486 03:00:14.440 --> 03:00:16.799 to go through step one through five and then we'll 3487 03:00:16.840 --> 03:00:18.799 finally make you this. And that's another reason I have 3488 03:00:18.879 --> 03:00:20.079 an issue with the Catholics. 3489 03:00:21.000 --> 03:00:22.879 I mean, yeah, I was about to say, the Vatican 3490 03:00:22.959 --> 03:00:27.239 has a large library that they don't let anybody access 3491 03:00:27.319 --> 03:00:28.399 unless you're qualified. 3492 03:00:28.760 --> 03:00:30.559 No, No, not even the library, not even that I'm 3493 03:00:30.600 --> 03:00:33.079 talking about just to be a Catholic. You have to 3494 03:00:33.159 --> 03:00:36.600 get your first baptism, your first Communion, your first confession, 3495 03:00:36.639 --> 03:00:38.760 you have to go through catechism, and then you can 3496 03:00:38.799 --> 03:00:42.600 be a confirmed Catholic. That goes against the entire principle 3497 03:00:42.680 --> 03:00:46.360 of Jesus in my personal opinion. So again that's I'm 3498 03:00:46.360 --> 03:00:48.799 not just shitting on the Gnostics for this one. I 3499 03:00:48.840 --> 03:00:50.959 also think that you have to go through years of 3500 03:00:50.959 --> 03:00:54.840 initiatory practices to even be considered a Catholic. That's fucking absurd. 3501 03:00:55.040 --> 03:00:57.000 Well, and the same thing with the Eucharist, It's supposed 3502 03:00:57.000 --> 03:00:59.680 to be symbolism, and yet people take it literal. 3503 03:01:00.079 --> 03:01:01.799 Know, well, that's the thing in the Catholic faith. You 3504 03:01:01.840 --> 03:01:03.840 have to have your first communion, that's when you take 3505 03:01:03.879 --> 03:01:07.000 your first Eucharist. That's it's a part of the process 3506 03:01:07.040 --> 03:01:09.000 to becoming a good Catholic. And you can only do 3507 03:01:09.120 --> 03:01:12.200 that after you've heard confession or after the priests has 3508 03:01:12.200 --> 03:01:14.440 heard your confession. So there's like a first confession process 3509 03:01:14.479 --> 03:01:17.520 to it this. There's these initiatory steps to being a 3510 03:01:17.559 --> 03:01:20.799 good Catholic, and I think that that completely denotes how 3511 03:01:20.920 --> 03:01:23.159 Jesus said, No, all you have to do is follow me. 3512 03:01:23.680 --> 03:01:26.280 All you have to do is accept my sacrifice into 3513 03:01:26.319 --> 03:01:30.399 your life. That's it. But yeah, anyway, Yeah, it's no 3514 03:01:30.520 --> 03:01:34.680 different than like Jewish temple and stuff like that. There's 3515 03:01:34.719 --> 03:01:38.440 a process to becoming a Jew, absolutely a Jewish convert 3516 03:01:38.799 --> 03:01:42.639 that takes years in order to become this. 3517 03:01:43.360 --> 03:01:47.600 Right, right, So, and all Jesus says is that, you know, 3518 03:01:47.719 --> 03:01:51.600 except that I died for your sins and automatically you're in, right. Yeah, 3519 03:01:51.639 --> 03:01:54.040 So it's a little bit different, smaller of a process, 3520 03:01:54.079 --> 03:01:55.760 still a little bit of a process. I mean, you 3521 03:01:55.799 --> 03:01:57.879 still got to give up a little bit of yourself 3522 03:01:57.879 --> 03:01:59.959 and a little bit of your you know, logical mind. 3523 03:02:00.200 --> 03:02:02.559 But still you have to pray a prayer. That's it. 3524 03:02:03.040 --> 03:02:06.440 You have to pray a prayer, right, right. So they 3525 03:02:06.479 --> 03:02:08.799 also say to get baptized later on, but that's that's 3526 03:02:08.799 --> 03:02:10.479 a conversation for another day. It's not like if you 3527 03:02:10.479 --> 03:02:12.559 don't get baptized, you don't go to Heaven. That's different, 3528 03:02:12.600 --> 03:02:14.639 but it's anyway anyway. 3529 03:02:14.479 --> 03:02:17.360 So I wanted to see how did Plato influence the 3530 03:02:17.399 --> 03:02:19.079 early Church? And we don't have to read the whole thing, 3531 03:02:19.120 --> 03:02:21.520 but I just want to try it to because what 3532 03:02:21.559 --> 03:02:23.639 the what the Catholics will have you believe is that 3533 03:02:24.079 --> 03:02:27.680 you know that the Cathars and narcissism in general was 3534 03:02:28.719 --> 03:02:32.280 like crazily influenced by Plato. And I was like, well, 3535 03:02:32.280 --> 03:02:34.760 that's an interesting kind of thing to just throw out there, 3536 03:02:34.799 --> 03:02:40.200 because the Bible is too not exactly, but let's get 3537 03:02:40.239 --> 03:02:43.239 into it. Well, yeah, and you'll see how this is 3538 03:02:43.280 --> 03:02:44.920 from the collector. Well, we're not going to read this 3539 03:02:44.959 --> 03:02:47.840 whole thing, but it just basically shows all right, So 3540 03:02:47.879 --> 03:02:49.479 Plato's effect on the early Church. 3541 03:02:49.920 --> 03:02:51.959 So and then it brings up justin Martyr. You'll see 3542 03:02:51.959 --> 03:02:53.520 how it says. 3543 03:02:53.600 --> 03:02:55.799 In the midst of these complicated times, many were coming 3544 03:02:55.840 --> 03:02:58.639 to believe the Christian message message because of its ability 3545 03:02:58.680 --> 03:03:01.680 to meet the intellectual chanlenges of the day. Answers could 3546 03:03:01.719 --> 03:03:05.360 be found by synthesizing Christian teachings Greek and Greek philosophy, 3547 03:03:05.559 --> 03:03:09.239 and many early Church fathers defended the faith through the synthesis. 3548 03:03:09.479 --> 03:03:12.600 Plato has often been considered a sort of poster child 3549 03:03:12.639 --> 03:03:15.559 for Greek philosophy as a whole, and several Church fathers 3550 03:03:15.639 --> 03:03:18.959 made much use of his work to defend the Christian 3551 03:03:19.000 --> 03:03:23.600 message against Roman persecution and Gnostic promulgations. Plato's influence is 3552 03:03:23.719 --> 03:03:26.559 clearly seen in the works of the following church fathers. 3553 03:03:27.040 --> 03:03:33.399 So Justin Martyr, which we've mentioned before. It says as 3554 03:03:33.639 --> 03:03:37.280 as a Christian, Justin's main concern was to have men 3555 03:03:37.399 --> 03:03:40.440 recognize Jesus as the true Logos by the Greeks and 3556 03:03:40.520 --> 03:03:43.239 at the same time as the predicted Messiah by the Jews. 3557 03:03:43.479 --> 03:03:45.920 As a man well educated in the philosophies of his day, 3558 03:03:46.079 --> 03:03:49.200 Justin Martyr was uniquely equipped to meet his intellectual the 3559 03:03:49.239 --> 03:03:53.719 intellectual challenge of unbelieving thought and give a defense of Christianity. 3560 03:03:54.000 --> 03:03:58.559 His method for defending Christianity relied heavily upon synthesizing Christianity 3561 03:03:58.559 --> 03:04:01.559 with Greek philosophy to defending the faith against Rome's false 3562 03:04:01.639 --> 03:04:05.920 charges of atheism, Justin writes, and so too Plato, when 3563 03:04:05.959 --> 03:04:10.200 he says the blame is his who chooses, and God 3564 03:04:10.280 --> 03:04:13.200 is blameless, took this from the prophet Moses and uttered it, 3565 03:04:13.319 --> 03:04:16.200 for Moses is more ancient than all the Greek, all 3566 03:04:16.239 --> 03:04:19.280 the Greek writers, and whatever both philosophers and poets have 3567 03:04:19.319 --> 03:04:23.000 said concerning the immortality of the soul, or punishments after death, 3568 03:04:23.079 --> 03:04:26.280 or contemplation of things heavenly, or doctrines of the like kind. 3569 03:04:26.520 --> 03:04:31.120 They have received such suggestions from the prophets as have 3570 03:04:31.559 --> 03:04:34.520 enabled them to understand and interpret these things, and hence 3571 03:04:34.559 --> 03:04:38.200 there seems to there seems to be seeds of truth 3572 03:04:38.239 --> 03:04:41.159 among all men, but they are charged with not accurately 3573 03:04:41.239 --> 03:04:44.399 understanding the truth when they assert contradictories. 3574 03:04:44.559 --> 03:04:46.639 So that is so he's basically saying that Plato got 3575 03:04:46.639 --> 03:04:51.440 his notes from Moses because Moses predates Plato. That's what he's. 3576 03:04:51.120 --> 03:04:55.440 Saying, ye, right, yeah, And so it goes on to 3577 03:04:55.440 --> 03:04:57.879 say that Justin believed the Greeks were very close to 3578 03:04:57.920 --> 03:05:00.719 the truth with respect to God. This clearly seen in 3579 03:05:00.760 --> 03:05:03.879 how he views the impersonal God of Plato. Van Till 3580 03:05:04.000 --> 03:05:06.000 notes that the God of Plato is nothing more than 3581 03:05:06.040 --> 03:05:11.399 a vague idea that somehow eternally exists. Eternally existent matter 3582 03:05:11.840 --> 03:05:18.159 is molded by as it is attracted to from interesting word. So, 3583 03:05:18.319 --> 03:05:21.000 not realizing this, Justin assumes that when Plato speaks of 3584 03:05:21.040 --> 03:05:23.159 the creation of the cosmos, he has a Biblical view 3585 03:05:23.239 --> 03:05:26.079 of creation in mind. When we see this in Justin's 3586 03:05:26.079 --> 03:05:29.399 first apology, where he writes, with respect to Plato's God 3587 03:05:29.559 --> 03:05:32.079 in quotes and that you may learn that it is 3588 03:05:32.120 --> 03:05:35.319 from our teachers that Plato borrowed his statement that God 3589 03:05:35.680 --> 03:05:37.920 made the world hear the very words. 3590 03:05:37.680 --> 03:05:39.000 Spoken through Moses. 3591 03:05:39.479 --> 03:05:42.319 It's kind of a weird statement to say, uh really, 3592 03:05:43.639 --> 03:05:48.079 to say that Plato was what receiving downloads from you know, 3593 03:05:48.200 --> 03:05:49.079 Moses or God. 3594 03:05:50.120 --> 03:05:54.000 No, that to say that the philosophical and poetic nature 3595 03:05:54.040 --> 03:05:57.079 that Moses wrote down made its way around the Mediterranean, 3596 03:05:57.120 --> 03:05:59.159 and that Plato may have picked up on something of 3597 03:05:59.200 --> 03:06:01.399 that later on. And I'm not saying there's any historical 3598 03:06:01.399 --> 03:06:03.920 precedence to back that claim, but that's what Justin Martin 3599 03:06:03.959 --> 03:06:09.040 thought anyway. So all right, which is interesting because I 3600 03:06:09.040 --> 03:06:13.559 can't remember exactly Plato was around, like was it four hundred? 3601 03:06:14.000 --> 03:06:17.239 Was it four hundred? Okay, so and supposedly I looked 3602 03:06:17.239 --> 03:06:19.760 this up the other day, but it was like Mos 3603 03:06:19.920 --> 03:06:22.920 was like fourteen hundred BC or something, Yeah, thirteen fourteen 3604 03:06:23.000 --> 03:06:25.879 hundred something like that. So I mean, yeah, yeah, So, 3605 03:06:26.159 --> 03:06:29.200 I mean I'm not saying I agree with that. I 3606 03:06:29.239 --> 03:06:31.840 don't think that Plato was taking his notes from Moses, 3607 03:06:32.559 --> 03:06:35.000 but that is at least what the belief was. So 3608 03:06:35.000 --> 03:06:38.639 they're saying that Plato and all of Platonism actually stemmed 3609 03:06:38.680 --> 03:06:42.319 from Moses and the Torah, which, you know, to say 3610 03:06:42.319 --> 03:06:45.159 that Plato knew nothing of that would be kind of crazy. 3611 03:06:45.200 --> 03:06:48.559 Because during Plato's time, like, the Jews were a thing 3612 03:06:48.639 --> 03:06:53.479 in Israel, right, So the Jews and the Hebrews had interchanging, 3613 03:06:54.000 --> 03:06:57.000 you know, dialogue with each other. So is it possible 3614 03:06:57.000 --> 03:06:58.959 that some of the philosophers of ancient Greece might have 3615 03:06:59.000 --> 03:07:01.079 picked up on some of the fullilosophies of an ancient 3616 03:07:01.120 --> 03:07:06.079 religion like the Hebrews. It's possible, yeah, sure, so, yeah, 3617 03:07:06.120 --> 03:07:08.639 I mean, it's basically just going down the list of 3618 03:07:08.680 --> 03:07:10.840 the early Church fathers. I misspoke whenever I said that 3619 03:07:10.879 --> 03:07:13.920 the Bible took from Platonism or vice versa, it's the 3620 03:07:13.959 --> 03:07:18.319 early Church fathers. A. So, the writings of those previously 3621 03:07:18.360 --> 03:07:21.520 mentioned clearly demonstrate that Plato had a major influence on 3622 03:07:21.559 --> 03:07:24.159 the early Church. But how far did this influence go. 3623 03:07:24.600 --> 03:07:28.760 Is Christianity simply a baptized Platonism. Plato's influence is surely 3624 03:07:28.879 --> 03:07:32.399 still seen in modern movements like Christian Platonism, But to 3625 03:07:32.479 --> 03:07:35.719 conclude wholesale that Plato's influence on the Early Church resulted 3626 03:07:35.760 --> 03:07:39.680 in an inseparable mixture of Platonic philosophy and Christian doctrine 3627 03:07:39.680 --> 03:07:43.600 would be a grave overstatement. Firstly, free access to information 3628 03:07:43.680 --> 03:07:46.200 in today's world allows us to parse out Plato and 3629 03:07:46.280 --> 03:07:48.719 Christianity in ways that the early Church fathers could have 3630 03:07:48.760 --> 03:07:51.399 never done. Who knows what these Church fathers would have 3631 03:07:51.399 --> 03:07:55.000 written had they had the same access to today's information. 3632 03:07:55.280 --> 03:07:58.040 As a result, we can clearly distinguish which aspects of 3633 03:07:58.040 --> 03:08:02.159 Platonism and Christianity share similar in which aspects are completely different. 3634 03:08:02.440 --> 03:08:05.520 More importantly, Plato's influence upon the early Church gave Christianity 3635 03:08:05.520 --> 03:08:07.920 the kind of stress it needed to formulate its own 3636 03:08:07.959 --> 03:08:13.280 positions with regard to metaphysics, metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics. Looking 3637 03:08:13.319 --> 03:08:15.319 back upon the early Church fathers, we can see their 3638 03:08:15.399 --> 03:08:19.959 use of Plato compromise the very foundations that allowed for 3639 03:08:20.000 --> 03:08:24.040 the possibility of knowledge. Philosopher theologians of later centuries have 3640 03:08:24.280 --> 03:08:26.600 been able to learn from the mistakes of their forerunners 3641 03:08:26.600 --> 03:08:30.040 and properly expound a rigorous Christian philosophy that answers the 3642 03:08:30.040 --> 03:08:33.120 pagan world, including Plato, in ways the Church fathers could 3643 03:08:33.200 --> 03:08:36.120 not could have only dreamed of. In the final analysis, 3644 03:08:36.159 --> 03:08:39.159 Plato's influence upon the early Church more than help firm 3645 03:08:39.239 --> 03:08:42.719 up the articulation of Christianity in the face of paganism 3646 03:08:42.799 --> 03:08:45.799 in later centuries. So that's basically what Plato was basically 3647 03:08:45.920 --> 03:08:49.719 used to go against Christianity, and they were using his 3648 03:08:50.399 --> 03:08:54.559 philosophical thoughts as a way to give a Christian answer 3649 03:08:54.600 --> 03:08:57.959 to the Platonic questions. And that's fair. 3650 03:08:58.680 --> 03:09:01.840 Yeah, I mean, it's just trying to explaining it in 3651 03:09:01.879 --> 03:09:04.639 a more philosophical way. But then to say that the 3652 03:09:04.680 --> 03:09:07.920 Bible is based in Platonism, or even that some of 3653 03:09:07.920 --> 03:09:11.959 the scriptures are platonically based, that's completely out of the 3654 03:09:12.000 --> 03:09:14.639 realm here. Yeah, no, that's not what I'm saying. I 3655 03:09:14.920 --> 03:09:18.600 misspoke whenever I said that, gotcha, gotcha. So, and this 3656 03:09:18.680 --> 03:09:20.879 is just to get over to it. This is an 3657 03:09:20.879 --> 03:09:25.639 interesting website called church Instate dot org dot uk. So 3658 03:09:25.680 --> 03:09:27.319 the lesson and this is the last one I think 3659 03:09:27.360 --> 03:09:30.040 that I'm gonna show, but the lesson from France, the 3660 03:09:30.040 --> 03:09:33.680 bloody extermination of the Cathars at Beziers. Kill them all 3661 03:09:33.760 --> 03:09:37.360 for the Lord knoweth them that are his. So this 3662 03:09:37.559 --> 03:09:41.360 is the idea that basically the Pope and all the 3663 03:09:41.360 --> 03:09:43.440 people that were trying to carry out the genocide of 3664 03:09:43.479 --> 03:09:46.319 the Cathars you know, well, lord, how do I know 3665 03:09:46.760 --> 03:09:48.959 you know which one is a Cathar and which one's 3666 03:09:49.000 --> 03:09:50.639 not because everybody dressed the same. It's not like they 3667 03:09:50.639 --> 03:09:52.799 were all dressing in uniforms. You know, it's not like 3668 03:09:52.840 --> 03:09:56.000 it was green versus white, or blue versus yellow or anything. 3669 03:09:56.000 --> 03:09:57.959 You couldn't determine it just by looking at him for 3670 03:09:57.959 --> 03:10:00.879 the most part, because most people, Yeah, and you had 3671 03:10:00.920 --> 03:10:04.000 your certain like extreme Cathars that took it to the extreme. 3672 03:10:04.079 --> 03:10:06.479 They didn't have sex, they only ate veggies, they ate 3673 03:10:06.479 --> 03:10:10.799 fish sometimes, and they believed, you know, this this gnostic 3674 03:10:10.840 --> 03:10:13.280 thought to be a literal way. But then you had 3675 03:10:13.319 --> 03:10:17.040 your other you know, Cathars that were like, yeah, that's 3676 03:10:17.040 --> 03:10:20.280 what I believe. But you know, I'm I'm still imperfect, 3677 03:10:20.399 --> 03:10:23.040 I'm still a center whatever. Like you know, we're in 3678 03:10:23.079 --> 03:10:24.719 this world. You may as well enjoy it a little 3679 03:10:24.719 --> 03:10:27.479 bit a lot. Like most religious people nowadays, you're not 3680 03:10:27.760 --> 03:10:31.559 so stringent and so extreme on what your what your 3681 03:10:31.559 --> 03:10:34.680 beliefs lead you to to be of this regard is. 3682 03:10:34.639 --> 03:10:37.479 That a true statement? Were there's some like, uh, what 3683 03:10:37.520 --> 03:10:41.360 would you call them, like moderate Cathars because there's no 3684 03:10:41.559 --> 03:10:43.479 historical record to back that kind of a claim. 3685 03:10:43.639 --> 03:10:47.159 Well, the the record is is that only the people 3686 03:10:47.399 --> 03:10:50.680 that what was it called the consolamentum. Only the people 3687 03:10:50.719 --> 03:10:54.920 that did the consolamentum were like the extremists the people 3688 03:10:55.040 --> 03:10:56.959 and a lot of people chose not to do the 3689 03:10:56.959 --> 03:10:59.559 consolamentum because that means that you would have to be 3690 03:10:59.600 --> 03:11:02.360 stringent and strict about your beliefs every day for the 3691 03:11:02.399 --> 03:11:04.760 rest of your life. It was like it was a vowel, right, 3692 03:11:05.079 --> 03:11:07.200 and so if you if you chose not to do that, 3693 03:11:07.520 --> 03:11:09.399 then you can kind of be a little bit more 3694 03:11:09.440 --> 03:11:11.639 loosey goosey with it, which is why most of the 3695 03:11:11.680 --> 03:11:14.440 Cathars in that time they would either only do the 3696 03:11:14.479 --> 03:11:17.559 consolamentum if they were first of all, either devout, maybe 3697 03:11:17.559 --> 03:11:20.319 they would do it on their you know, on their deathbed, 3698 03:11:20.840 --> 03:11:22.959 like they waited, they tried to push it off if 3699 03:11:23.000 --> 03:11:24.959 they weren't trying to be as strict as they as 3700 03:11:25.000 --> 03:11:25.840 they possibly could. 3701 03:11:26.479 --> 03:11:31.000 There's a lot of record to show like deathbed converts 3702 03:11:31.040 --> 03:11:34.600 if you will, to Catherism. But I don't know if 3703 03:11:34.639 --> 03:11:36.639 there's and I'm not trying to like say that you're wrong, 3704 03:11:36.840 --> 03:11:39.399 I'm asking like, is there historical claims to say that 3705 03:11:39.440 --> 03:11:41.920 they were moderate Cathars? The people that kind of heard 3706 03:11:41.959 --> 03:11:43.280 it and said, yeah, I could agree with some of 3707 03:11:43.280 --> 03:11:45.920 your stuff, but I'm not a Cathar. I mean, it's 3708 03:11:46.079 --> 03:11:49.639 just like our boy Royce. You know, it's like you. 3709 03:11:49.639 --> 03:11:52.360 You you ask a Jew a question, or you asked 3710 03:11:52.440 --> 03:11:54.520 three Jews a question, or two Jews a question, you're 3711 03:11:54.520 --> 03:11:56.280 gonna get three answers or whatever. Right. 3712 03:11:56.920 --> 03:11:59.719 Everybody has their own differing beliefs and their different takes 3713 03:11:59.760 --> 03:12:02.079 on it, and it was kind of like that, like some. 3714 03:12:02.000 --> 03:12:03.879 People were to the extreme with it. 3715 03:12:03.920 --> 03:12:06.520 You know, your aocs of the of the world, and 3716 03:12:06.559 --> 03:12:08.200 then you're gonna have your people that are a little 3717 03:12:08.200 --> 03:12:12.120 bit more moderate. You know, I don't know, fucking Ron Paul, 3718 03:12:12.280 --> 03:12:16.040 Maybe I don't know, but but yeah, that's what I'm 3719 03:12:16.079 --> 03:12:18.040 trying to say is that you know, there was there 3720 03:12:18.079 --> 03:12:21.319 was shades of gray as far as the Catholic belief 3721 03:12:22.520 --> 03:12:26.680 so it says. Another reminder of the of the brutal, 3722 03:12:26.719 --> 03:12:29.319 bloodsoaked history of Christianity is to be found in the 3723 03:12:29.360 --> 03:12:32.079 history of the French town of Beziers on the banks 3724 03:12:32.120 --> 03:12:36.399 of the River Orb in the Langadoc region southeast of Montpelier, 3725 03:12:36.479 --> 03:12:39.000 on the edge of the Camargue. 3726 03:12:38.440 --> 03:12:41.040 Came Argue sure it has been. 3727 03:12:41.280 --> 03:12:43.479 It has been, in turn, along with much of the 3728 03:12:43.559 --> 03:12:47.840 area's areas south of Toulouse, under the control of the Greeks, Romans, Visigoths, 3729 03:12:47.879 --> 03:12:53.959 moorsh Moslems from Andalica, Catholic Spain and utterly Catholic France. 3730 03:12:54.200 --> 03:12:56.959 Until recent times, the local language was a dialect of 3731 03:12:57.040 --> 03:13:02.600 French Occitan, which has closely with Catalan. This gave it 3732 03:13:02.639 --> 03:13:05.319 a sense of separate identity from that of France, something 3733 03:13:05.360 --> 03:13:08.680 that concerned King Philip the Second, keen to exert the 3734 03:13:08.719 --> 03:13:11.520 same control over the southern provinces as he had over 3735 03:13:11.520 --> 03:13:14.600 the north. Beaziars is now a peaceful, quiet little market 3736 03:13:14.600 --> 03:13:17.280 town and cultural center, but it was not always so. 3737 03:13:17.639 --> 03:13:20.719 It was until twelve oh nine a stronghold of the Cathars, 3738 03:13:20.879 --> 03:13:24.639 a religious sect which rejected Roman Catholicism in the authority 3739 03:13:24.639 --> 03:13:27.559 of the Pope, which was brutally suppressed in the Albergensian 3740 03:13:27.639 --> 03:13:30.479 Crusade on the orders of Pope Innocent the Third, an 3741 03:13:30.559 --> 03:13:33.479 alliance with King Philip the Second of France. 3742 03:13:34.360 --> 03:13:34.879 It says the. 3743 03:13:34.840 --> 03:13:39.000 Siege of Beziers was a pivotal and infamous event during 3744 03:13:39.000 --> 03:13:42.840 the Abagensian Crusade in twelve oh nine, Baziirs was a 3745 03:13:42.959 --> 03:13:46.399 prosperous city in the Langadoc region of southern France, known 3746 03:13:46.440 --> 03:13:50.840 for its large Cathar population and sympathizers. The Catholic crusaders, 3747 03:13:50.920 --> 03:13:53.159 led by Simon de Montfort and under the authority of 3748 03:13:53.159 --> 03:13:56.200 Pope Innocent the Third, sought to capture the city and 3749 03:13:56.239 --> 03:13:59.719 eliminate the Cathar heresy. Here's a detailed account of the 3750 03:13:59.760 --> 03:14:02.559 Sea of Braziers. So it says in twelve oh eight, 3751 03:14:02.600 --> 03:14:05.079 the Pope had declared a formal crusade against the Cathars, 3752 03:14:05.120 --> 03:14:08.600 labeling them as heretics. Simon de Mottfort was appointed as 3753 03:14:08.600 --> 03:14:11.799 the leader of the crusade, and he began his campaign 3754 03:14:11.840 --> 03:14:15.079 to subdue the Cathar stronghold of Baziers, which was one 3755 03:14:15.120 --> 03:14:17.959 of the major centers of Catharism in the Langadac region. 3756 03:14:18.719 --> 03:14:21.760 The Siege of Baziers began in July of twelve oh nine, 3757 03:14:21.840 --> 03:14:25.200 with the crusaders encircling the city and launching a sustained assault. 3758 03:14:25.440 --> 03:14:28.280 The city's defense was formidable, but the large number of 3759 03:14:28.280 --> 03:14:30.719 defenders and civilians within the walls put up a strain 3760 03:14:30.760 --> 03:14:34.440 on the limited resources and water supply. As the siege continued, 3761 03:14:34.600 --> 03:14:37.280 the crusaders called for the city to surrender and offered 3762 03:14:37.360 --> 03:14:40.120 terms to spare the lives of the inhabitants. The response 3763 03:14:40.159 --> 03:14:42.639 from the city's leaders was a refusal to hand over 3764 03:14:42.719 --> 03:14:45.399 the Cathars within the walls, stating that they would not 3765 03:14:45.520 --> 03:14:50.280 betray their own people. Then, in July July twenty second 3766 03:14:50.319 --> 03:14:53.319 of twelve oh nine, theade we probably should have started 3767 03:14:53.360 --> 03:14:57.399 with this, sorry about that, the crusaders breached the city's 3768 03:14:57.440 --> 03:15:01.399 defenses and storm beziers. The situation quickly descended into chaos 3769 03:15:01.440 --> 03:15:04.760 and violence. According to historical accounts, the crusaders unleashed a 3770 03:15:04.799 --> 03:15:07.760 brutal assault on the city, sparing no one in the process. 3771 03:15:08.040 --> 03:15:10.719 Many sources report that when asked how to distinguish the 3772 03:15:10.760 --> 03:15:14.879 Cathars from the Catholics, the papal legate are No Almric 3773 03:15:15.319 --> 03:15:19.399 or Amalric is famously quoted as saying, kill them all, 3774 03:15:19.760 --> 03:15:22.959 God will know his own. The result was a bloodbath, 3775 03:15:23.040 --> 03:15:26.319 with thousands of people slaughtered, regardless of their religious affiliation. 3776 03:15:26.799 --> 03:15:28.920 The fall of Braziers had a profound impact on the 3777 03:15:28.920 --> 03:15:31.920 course of the Aubagensian Crusade. It's in a powerful message 3778 03:15:31.959 --> 03:15:34.559 to other towns and cities in the region, leading to many, 3779 03:15:35.000 --> 03:15:37.280 leading many to surrender without a fight to avoid a 3780 03:15:37.319 --> 03:15:41.000 similar fate. The massacre Beziers also instilled fear and terror 3781 03:15:41.040 --> 03:15:43.840 in the hearts of those who resisted the Crusaders, furthering 3782 03:15:43.879 --> 03:15:48.079 the Catholic Church's agenda to suppress the Cathar heresy. So 3783 03:15:48.280 --> 03:15:50.840 that is kind of the background of what happened, at 3784 03:15:50.920 --> 03:15:55.399 least from the Cathar's perspective. I thought it was pretty interesting, 3785 03:15:55.639 --> 03:15:57.799 you know, just to throw it out there, like how 3786 03:15:57.840 --> 03:16:02.280 it all happened, and you know, like and that's the thing, 3787 03:16:02.399 --> 03:16:04.840 like and you can't even get people to agree if 3788 03:16:04.840 --> 03:16:07.319 the Cathars were even a real people, which I will 3789 03:16:07.360 --> 03:16:09.680 say it's next, which is kind of what it was 3790 03:16:09.680 --> 03:16:13.000 alluding to. You know that, well, it's not possible that 3791 03:16:13.040 --> 03:16:16.079 you had that many Cathars massacred because there weren't that 3792 03:16:16.159 --> 03:16:18.760 many Cathars. You might say, well, that was the point, 3793 03:16:19.000 --> 03:16:20.680 you know, it was just to go in the into 3794 03:16:20.760 --> 03:16:23.479 the village. Look, this is known to be a Cathar region. 3795 03:16:23.479 --> 03:16:25.680 I don't care if there's one or one thousand fucking 3796 03:16:25.760 --> 03:16:26.600 murder everybody. 3797 03:16:27.520 --> 03:16:29.760 Which is also interesting that it was Philip the second 3798 03:16:29.920 --> 03:16:32.479 of France that did this, Although there's a little bit 3799 03:16:32.520 --> 03:16:35.040 of some historical discrepancy on this one. That was in 3800 03:16:35.079 --> 03:16:37.680 twelve oh seven, twelve oh nine, and it said the 3801 03:16:37.760 --> 03:16:42.120 King Philip the Second led this alber Jean's crusade. Keep 3802 03:16:42.159 --> 03:16:44.840 in mind that the knights Templars were also put on 3803 03:16:44.920 --> 03:16:48.120 trial in thirteen oh nine by King Philip the Second. 3804 03:16:48.639 --> 03:16:50.840 So we're talking about this king was the king for 3805 03:16:50.920 --> 03:16:55.639 over one hundred years in France. That doesn't exactly align either. See, 3806 03:16:55.680 --> 03:16:59.040 these are things where historical records aren't exactly lining up 3807 03:16:59.079 --> 03:17:02.719 with reality. I'm not saying that old crusade did not happen, 3808 03:17:03.079 --> 03:17:05.600 but to say that King Philip led it, I think 3809 03:17:05.600 --> 03:17:07.479 it's a bit of a misnomer. But the crusade didn't 3810 03:17:07.559 --> 03:17:09.680 last for one year, right, This lasted for like two 3811 03:17:09.760 --> 03:17:12.479 hundred years. The last Cathars were killed in was it 3812 03:17:12.520 --> 03:17:14.680 thirteen forties or something like that or something like that. 3813 03:17:14.760 --> 03:17:16.280 But I will say, I mean, you want to talk 3814 03:17:16.319 --> 03:17:18.319 about the cross of that crusade, you want to talk 3815 03:17:18.319 --> 03:17:21.920 about the discrepancies of time. I mean, Moses lived when 3816 03:17:23.360 --> 03:17:25.319 thirteen hundred BC or something like that. 3817 03:17:25.559 --> 03:17:28.079 I said fourteen earlier. I don't, I don't know off top. 3818 03:17:28.120 --> 03:17:29.879 We've talked about it before. But that when he was 3819 03:17:29.920 --> 03:17:34.360 born or when he died, not one hundred percent sure. Honestly, 3820 03:17:34.559 --> 03:17:36.319 I know that he was during the fucking Ramsey's the 3821 03:17:36.360 --> 03:17:39.479 second So whatever timeframe we're talking about there says Moses 3822 03:17:39.520 --> 03:17:43.360 lived nine hundred years. So that was Noah dog Oh 3823 03:17:43.399 --> 03:17:47.280 I thought it was. Wasn't it Moses? No my tripping, Oh, 3824 03:17:47.319 --> 03:17:48.200 I guess it would be Noah. 3825 03:17:48.200 --> 03:17:51.840 I'm tripping, all right, Well Noah, anyway, Look, I know 3826 03:17:52.239 --> 03:17:52.680 people are. 3827 03:17:52.639 --> 03:17:54.680 Gonna come at me. He did see he doesn't know this. 3828 03:17:54.760 --> 03:17:57.680 I'm like, no, I'm still trying to mix it up. 3829 03:17:57.760 --> 03:18:01.280 My point is, though, even in medieval records, historically documented 3830 03:18:01.319 --> 03:18:04.000 things that were only a few centuries ago, there is 3831 03:18:04.040 --> 03:18:06.760 still some things where it's like open to wait a minute, 3832 03:18:06.799 --> 03:18:09.399 that didn't exactly happen as they said, because that couldn't 3833 03:18:09.399 --> 03:18:12.479 have because King Philip wasn't alive in twelve oh nine, 3834 03:18:12.760 --> 03:18:14.600 So how did his name get associated with this? But 3835 03:18:14.680 --> 03:18:16.479 he became the king of France later, so maybe they 3836 03:18:16.479 --> 03:18:19.719 meant King Philip the first who knows, and maybe his 3837 03:18:19.879 --> 03:18:22.440 son took on the mantle of this crusade against the 3838 03:18:22.440 --> 03:18:25.280 Cathars after his dad died. But my point is, though 3839 03:18:25.760 --> 03:18:28.799 if that if there's any water to be hailed within 3840 03:18:28.879 --> 03:18:32.319 this conversation, we could say that the King of France 3841 03:18:32.479 --> 03:18:35.840 was kind of on one as far as crusades and 3842 03:18:36.040 --> 03:18:38.840 murder and all these things to try to make himself 3843 03:18:38.879 --> 03:18:41.360 look like he was amazing, because he's gone down in 3844 03:18:41.399 --> 03:18:44.959 history as King Philip the just so well, yeah, just 3845 03:18:45.000 --> 03:18:46.000 that he was on one. 3846 03:18:46.079 --> 03:18:49.479 He convinced the popes of it too, you know, So 3847 03:18:49.520 --> 03:18:51.360 it's not like he was some kind of mad ruler 3848 03:18:51.399 --> 03:18:54.479 or mad king. I mean he was, you know, given 3849 03:18:54.520 --> 03:18:56.200 the green light by several popes. 3850 03:18:56.959 --> 03:18:59.200 Well that's the thing too, right, How many of these 3851 03:18:59.239 --> 03:19:02.479 popes did he act actually have in his pocket in 3852 03:19:02.479 --> 03:19:05.440 certain regards, and how many of them saw him as like, oh, 3853 03:19:05.479 --> 03:19:08.440 I gotta deal with this fucking guy. What's up Philip? Yeah, yeah, 3854 03:19:08.479 --> 03:19:11.159 you're in debt again. I know, any chance you're gonna 3855 03:19:11.159 --> 03:19:12.879 make your pain at this month? And well he's got 3856 03:19:12.920 --> 03:19:15.079 to find a bad guy. He's got to find somebody 3857 03:19:15.079 --> 03:19:17.559 to justify why France is in the shitter right now. 3858 03:19:17.879 --> 03:19:19.639 Maybe it was the Cathars and later it became the 3859 03:19:19.680 --> 03:19:22.639 Knights Templar and all these like I could understand historically, 3860 03:19:22.639 --> 03:19:25.879 while politics probably play way more of a role than 3861 03:19:26.120 --> 03:19:27.520 actual religious dogma. 3862 03:19:28.479 --> 03:19:30.879 That being said, which is why I believe that the 3863 03:19:30.920 --> 03:19:33.440 construction of the Bible had a lot to do with 3864 03:19:33.559 --> 03:19:35.479 the political agenda of the time as well. 3865 03:19:36.719 --> 03:19:39.120 I could understand the conversation on that. For sure. I 3866 03:19:39.559 --> 03:19:42.200 have my own inherent beliefs as far as the construction 3867 03:19:42.239 --> 03:19:44.319 of the Bible, but I understand why people would say 3868 03:19:44.360 --> 03:19:47.000 that it was more of a political motivation rather than 3869 03:19:47.040 --> 03:19:50.760 a spiritual one. Fair enough, Now that being said, let's 3870 03:19:50.799 --> 03:19:54.440 talk about the possibility, just the possibility all, not saying 3871 03:19:54.440 --> 03:19:59.200 this is a fact that the Cathars never actually existed. 3872 03:20:00.000 --> 03:20:03.040 There's no way of denying the fact that there were 3873 03:20:03.079 --> 03:20:06.719 Gnostic groups and sects and cults that operated in Europe 3874 03:20:06.719 --> 03:20:09.719 and around the Mediterranean since the time of the first 3875 03:20:09.719 --> 03:20:13.840 century AD until the fifteen hundreds. Like, absolutely this existed. 3876 03:20:14.319 --> 03:20:17.520 But to this scale and scope that the Cathars have 3877 03:20:17.639 --> 03:20:19.879 been talked about, and not only in this episode, by 3878 03:20:19.959 --> 03:20:25.079 many historians for centuries. Is there actually something to be 3879 03:20:25.120 --> 03:20:27.200 said here or is this one of those stories to 3880 03:20:27.200 --> 03:20:29.200 where it was more of a myth that got put 3881 03:20:29.280 --> 03:20:31.799 down onto paper and just kind of became what we 3882 03:20:31.879 --> 03:20:33.920 now know is historical fact. And I'm going to share 3883 03:20:33.959 --> 03:20:34.360 the screen. 3884 03:20:34.520 --> 03:20:37.639 The people that say that are more or less like 3885 03:20:38.079 --> 03:20:39.959 just apologetics. 3886 03:20:40.639 --> 03:20:44.680 Could be, could be, But then we also have kind 3887 03:20:44.680 --> 03:20:48.920 of a misconstrued historical accounts that would tell us at 3888 03:20:49.000 --> 03:20:51.959 least a portion of this is correct and a big 3889 03:20:52.000 --> 03:20:54.079 portion of this is incorrect, and this has led to 3890 03:20:54.079 --> 03:20:56.440 a lot of scholarly debate here in the last few decades. 3891 03:20:56.760 --> 03:20:58.559 I'm going to play a quick little section of this 3892 03:20:58.600 --> 03:21:02.840 clip from Narcissism, Cat and Catherism Historical fact or a 3893 03:21:02.879 --> 03:21:06.479 Delusion of the Inquisition. This is from Esoterica. It's a 3894 03:21:06.479 --> 03:21:09.319 YouTube channel led by doctor Justin Sledge. I am a 3895 03:21:09.440 --> 03:21:11.920 massive fan of him, by the way, because while he 3896 03:21:12.000 --> 03:21:14.079 is Jewish, you could tell because he wears a yamaka. 3897 03:21:14.280 --> 03:21:18.799 He does massive historical deep dives into the occult, the arcane, 3898 03:21:18.840 --> 03:21:21.559 the mystics, and to show the historical precedence to this, 3899 03:21:22.120 --> 03:21:26.000 real looks at what these people believed all of this. 3900 03:21:26.200 --> 03:21:28.120 It is incredible the amount of work that he does, 3901 03:21:28.200 --> 03:21:30.520 and that's what his doctorate is in is a matter 3902 03:21:30.559 --> 03:21:32.479 of fact, so it's not like he's just speaking on 3903 03:21:32.520 --> 03:21:37.600 this as a fanboy of esoteric knowledge. He speaks as 3904 03:21:37.639 --> 03:21:39.920 a actual scholarly source on these things. 3905 03:21:40.079 --> 03:21:41.879 To be fair, I do want to say too, just 3906 03:21:41.920 --> 03:21:44.959 before you play this. If you're going in and ramsacking 3907 03:21:45.120 --> 03:21:49.360 every village and allegedly taking out like every single Cathar, 3908 03:21:49.799 --> 03:21:54.079 would there be much in the terms of relics or 3909 03:21:54.159 --> 03:21:56.040 proof that they even existed anyway? 3910 03:21:56.159 --> 03:21:56.799 Like I don't know. 3911 03:21:56.719 --> 03:22:00.319 How much, but like if you deleted everybody, I can't 3912 03:22:00.360 --> 03:22:02.120 imagine that there would be that much leftover. 3913 03:22:02.920 --> 03:22:07.399 Jonathan, You're on the money. That's my point. That's my point. So, yeah, 3914 03:22:07.440 --> 03:22:10.120 so there's no record of them. You can make the 3915 03:22:10.159 --> 03:22:13.799 story as big and grandiose and heretical, and they're doing incests, 3916 03:22:13.799 --> 03:22:16.040 they're doing beastiality. You can make the story whatever the 3917 03:22:16.120 --> 03:22:19.280 fuck you want because there's nobody to go against that 3918 03:22:19.360 --> 03:22:22.479 clean right, right. So, and I'm not saying that I 3919 03:22:22.479 --> 03:22:25.079 agree with that wholeheartedly, but it is at least a 3920 03:22:25.159 --> 03:22:27.319 theory that is being proposed. So let's listen to doctor 3921 03:22:27.479 --> 03:22:29.440 Justin Sledge himself speak on it. 3922 03:22:30.760 --> 03:22:33.440 Before getting to the specifics of the debate against the 3923 03:22:33.520 --> 03:22:37.600 historical existence of the cutthars. Let's do some framing. First 3924 03:22:38.280 --> 03:22:42.600 Medieval Studies is a surprisingly recent academic effort which only 3925 03:22:42.639 --> 03:22:46.079 really took on a truly scientific rather than a simply 3926 03:22:46.159 --> 03:22:51.600 antiquarian methodology, beginning in the middle of the nineteenth century. Indeed, 3927 03:22:51.680 --> 03:22:55.520 it was only around then that the veritable mountain of 3928 03:22:55.719 --> 03:23:02.479 medieval chronicles, manuscripts, testimonies, and other very obscure volumes was 3929 03:23:02.520 --> 03:23:08.559 even properly documented sordid or even chronologically arranged for that matter. 3930 03:23:09.280 --> 03:23:10.799 Honestly, this is still. 3931 03:23:10.520 --> 03:23:14.760 A very much ongoing process, with new archival discoveries being 3932 03:23:14.760 --> 03:23:18.959 made all the time. We're still sorting out just what 3933 03:23:19.079 --> 03:23:22.200 happened in the Middle Ages. But it's to the mid 3934 03:23:22.319 --> 03:23:26.040 nineteenth century that we must turn to witness the discovery 3935 03:23:26.360 --> 03:23:28.479 or the invention depending on how you want to look 3936 03:23:28.479 --> 03:23:32.000 at it of the Cathars, in the pioneering studies such 3937 03:23:32.040 --> 03:23:36.559 as the eighteen forty nine Charles Schmidt, and the concretizing 3938 03:23:36.639 --> 03:23:39.559 of what is now called the traditionalist narrative in the 3939 03:23:39.559 --> 03:23:43.159 mid twentieth century, especially in the studies of folks like 3940 03:23:43.239 --> 03:23:47.719 Herbert Grundemann, and more recent standard accounts like those of 3941 03:23:47.760 --> 03:23:52.600 the too Malcolm Barber and Lambert Claire Taylor and others. 3942 03:23:53.840 --> 03:23:57.120 So to see what the skeptical camp is rejecting, let's 3943 03:23:57.280 --> 03:24:03.040 lay out the traditionalist position briefly, This position holds that 3944 03:24:03.159 --> 03:24:07.920 a dualist variant of Christianity was introduced into Central Europe 3945 03:24:08.239 --> 03:24:12.600 and took hold, especially in northern Italy and France, especially 3946 03:24:12.639 --> 03:24:16.000 in the Languedoc region of France, with its origins in 3947 03:24:16.040 --> 03:24:21.360 a Eastern European dualist school known as Bogomilism. Such a 3948 03:24:21.440 --> 03:24:24.639 dualist religion may indeed even have its roots way further 3949 03:24:24.760 --> 03:24:28.479 back into the Gnostic schools of late Antiquity, and while 3950 03:24:28.479 --> 03:24:32.399 there existed some internal variation, the central core was that 3951 03:24:32.520 --> 03:24:37.879 reality was divided into ontologically distinct good slash spiritual and 3952 03:24:38.120 --> 03:24:43.559 evil slash physical camps. Human souls were originally angelic beings 3953 03:24:43.680 --> 03:24:47.760 tempted out of heaven into a evil physical world, such 3954 03:24:47.840 --> 03:24:51.600 that that if they don't undergo a process of spiritual purification, 3955 03:24:52.120 --> 03:24:55.600 they would be caught in a cycle of reincarnation forever. 3956 03:24:56.440 --> 03:24:59.719 To achieve this, the Cauthars had spiritual leaders who led 3957 03:24:59.760 --> 03:25:03.760 lives of strict purity, the Prefecti, who would welcome other 3958 03:25:03.840 --> 03:25:07.479 believers or supporters into a life of purity at the 3959 03:25:07.680 --> 03:25:12.079 end of their lives in the soul Cauthar sacrament, the Consolamentum. 3960 03:25:12.840 --> 03:25:16.000 The Caathars rejected the Hebrew Bible as the work of 3961 03:25:16.120 --> 03:25:19.280 the evil God, and denied that Jesus even had a 3962 03:25:19.280 --> 03:25:23.920 physical body at all, its appearance being a kind of illusioned. 3963 03:25:24.520 --> 03:25:29.440 They consumed a pescatarian diet, arguing that creatures born from 3964 03:25:29.719 --> 03:25:34.799 sexual union bore reincarnated spirits. It seems that they thought 3965 03:25:34.799 --> 03:25:38.239 that fish were somehow generated spontaneously. This was a not 3966 03:25:38.399 --> 03:25:41.079 uncommon belief in the Middle Ages, and it's interesting that 3967 03:25:41.200 --> 03:25:45.799 Jewish law also doesn't consider fish meat. In the areas 3968 03:25:45.799 --> 03:25:49.559 where Katharism proved popular, they formed a mostly flat but 3969 03:25:49.680 --> 03:25:55.079 still variegated ecclesiastical structure, with bishops and various forms of administration. 3970 03:25:56.000 --> 03:25:59.399 In this way, and this is really crucial, they formed 3971 03:25:59.440 --> 03:26:03.920 a popular and rapidly spreading counter church to the Catholic Church, 3972 03:26:04.440 --> 03:26:07.920 and it was precisely this that led to the onslaught 3973 03:26:08.000 --> 03:26:13.360 of the Albagensian Crusade and the subsequent generations of inquisitorial 3974 03:26:13.440 --> 03:26:18.239 persecution of the Cathars, resulting in the landmark inquisitors manual 3975 03:26:18.319 --> 03:26:23.120 practic inquisitiones hered k Privitatis of Bernard GHI, with the 3976 03:26:23.200 --> 03:26:27.000 last known Cathar's execution in autumn of thirteen twenty one. 3977 03:26:27.760 --> 03:26:30.600 Of course, there are numerous other things that can be 3978 03:26:30.639 --> 03:26:34.600 said about this Kathar story. The political inns and outs 3979 03:26:34.639 --> 03:26:38.200 involved in the origins and progression of the Albagencian Crusade. 3980 03:26:38.520 --> 03:26:42.719 The military aspects of the crusade itself, mostly a history 3981 03:26:42.760 --> 03:26:48.680 of siege and slaughter. The development of absolute versus moderate dualism. 3982 03:26:49.000 --> 03:26:53.120 The variations on the fall myth. Other alleged Cathar text, 3983 03:26:53.319 --> 03:26:56.840 especially the Liber duobos prinkipiis or the Book of the 3984 03:26:56.879 --> 03:27:00.559 Two Principles, which you best believe is going to get 3985 03:27:00.600 --> 03:27:05.799 its entire own episode. The exact relationship between Satan and 3986 03:27:05.840 --> 03:27:08.959 the so called rex Mundi or the King of the World. 3987 03:27:09.120 --> 03:27:12.600 The role of the Bogo mill misship Nikitas. 3988 03:27:12.120 --> 03:27:13.639 If he existed at all. 3989 03:27:14.559 --> 03:27:17.879 All in all, I think this captures the main dimensions 3990 03:27:17.879 --> 03:27:20.600 of the Kathar narrative as it's come down to us, 3991 03:27:21.120 --> 03:27:23.399 both in academic studies in the past one hundred and 3992 03:27:23.479 --> 03:27:29.079 fifty years, but also in Dan brown popular culture, conspiracy theories, 3993 03:27:29.120 --> 03:27:31.959 and the popular castle tours in the Languadoc region. I 3994 03:27:31.959 --> 03:27:35.360 think I've even drank Kathar wine in Languidoc at some point. 3995 03:27:36.239 --> 03:27:40.239 But by the nineteen nineties, a group of medievalists and 3996 03:27:40.399 --> 03:27:43.600 heresy studies. Scholars began to question this narrative in a 3997 03:27:44.360 --> 03:27:51.559 profoundly radical narrative. Their conclusion is astounding. There just weren't 3998 03:27:51.959 --> 03:27:57.559 ever any Cathars at all. They just didn't exist. Now, 3999 03:27:57.680 --> 03:27:59.680 to get at their counter arguments, I want to lay 4000 03:27:59.680 --> 03:28:03.520 out what I take to be the core of their skepticism. 4001 03:28:04.000 --> 03:28:06.600 The central pillar that skeptics take aim at is the 4002 03:28:06.719 --> 03:28:11.360 idea that there existed a unified dualist, heretical or dissident 4003 03:28:11.440 --> 03:28:16.440 movement organized into a counter ecclesiastical body in Europe, or 4004 03:28:16.719 --> 03:28:20.200 especially in the lands of Languidoc under the protection of 4005 03:28:20.280 --> 03:28:24.520 the Count of Toulouse, with a unified body of beliefs 4006 03:28:24.520 --> 03:28:29.520 and practices taken together and known as the Cathars or 4007 03:28:29.760 --> 03:28:34.239 Katharism in the thirteenth and twelfth centuries, with its origins 4008 03:28:34.280 --> 03:28:40.200 in Balkan Bogomilism. Now, let's be really careful and clear here. 4009 03:28:40.440 --> 03:28:44.319 Both the traditionalists and the skeptics agree that some type 4010 03:28:44.399 --> 03:28:49.120 of acute religious dissidents was present in Languidoc, and that 4011 03:28:49.319 --> 03:28:55.120 dualism does eventually appear to be emerging thread. Indeed, if 4012 03:28:55.120 --> 03:28:58.040 the Cathars did exist, they would join the ranks of 4013 03:28:58.120 --> 03:29:03.440 other established her movements such as the Waldensians, whose existence 4014 03:29:03.680 --> 03:29:09.319 both Cathar skeptics and traditionalists agree upon. So when the 4015 03:29:09.399 --> 03:29:12.840 skeptics argue that there were no Cathars or that Catharism 4016 03:29:12.959 --> 03:29:15.920 didn't exist as such, they are taking aim at the 4017 03:29:16.079 --> 03:29:22.159 traditionalist position that religious dissidents was organized into a duellist 4018 03:29:22.399 --> 03:29:26.559 counter of movement to the Catholic Church. But why what 4019 03:29:27.040 --> 03:29:33.520 warrants such skepticism. Let's work through some of their central arguments. 4020 03:29:34.559 --> 03:29:38.799 The first is that the term cathar just doesn't really 4021 03:29:38.840 --> 03:29:41.479 appear in the records of the twelfth and thirteenth centuries 4022 03:29:41.479 --> 03:29:45.079 in the area of Languedoc. No one seems to really 4023 03:29:45.159 --> 03:29:49.920 call others cathars. The inquisitors just used the general term heretics, 4024 03:29:50.399 --> 03:29:53.639 and no one identifies as a Cathar in the records. 4025 03:29:53.680 --> 03:29:55.840 No one says I'm a Cathar and I belong to 4026 03:29:55.879 --> 03:30:01.280 the Cathar church. That's conspicuous. If there were Cathars, why 4027 03:30:01.280 --> 03:30:05.280 didn't anyone use that term for them? Now, the term 4028 03:30:05.360 --> 03:30:09.239 cathar is deployed by someone like Expert of Schoenau to 4029 03:30:09.360 --> 03:30:12.319 describe an alleged group of heretics in the eleven forties, 4030 03:30:12.440 --> 03:30:16.440 which he also likens to Manicheanism, the ancient dualist religion, 4031 03:30:16.440 --> 03:30:19.920 which at that time had long since gone extinct. Also, 4032 03:30:20.280 --> 03:30:23.520 he's referring to people in Cologne, in the area of Germany, 4033 03:30:24.120 --> 03:30:27.479 not in the area of languid doc Now that linkage 4034 03:30:27.520 --> 03:30:30.920 to extinct Manicheanism is going to be really important again 4035 03:30:30.959 --> 03:30:34.360 in just a moment, so hold on to it. Secondly, 4036 03:30:34.440 --> 03:30:37.239 is the problem of the source material. Prior to the 4037 03:30:37.239 --> 03:30:41.559 thirteenth century, there's a real paucity, but through the thirteenth century, 4038 03:30:41.600 --> 03:30:47.959 documentation geometrically explodes in volume, especially in the post Crusade 4039 03:30:48.000 --> 03:30:52.399 Inquisitorial period. Further, these sources, according to the skeptics, have 4040 03:30:52.479 --> 03:30:57.120 been incorrectly read on a number of fronts. First, they 4041 03:30:57.200 --> 03:31:01.360 just historically haven't been read in chronological order. Often traditionalists 4042 03:31:01.360 --> 03:31:04.399 start with later texts from the inquisitorial period, in which 4043 03:31:04.479 --> 03:31:08.239 dualism is sometimes apparent, and then those texts are used 4044 03:31:08.280 --> 03:31:11.920 as evidence for what existed in previous periods as much 4045 03:31:12.000 --> 03:31:16.600 as two centuries earlier. When read in chronological order, according 4046 03:31:16.600 --> 03:31:20.600 to the skeptics, what we see is a generalized dissonance 4047 03:31:20.680 --> 03:31:24.520 being shaped by the leading questions of the Inquisition, so 4048 03:31:24.600 --> 03:31:27.559 as to construct the very thing that they sought to 4049 03:31:27.760 --> 03:31:32.200 discover in the testimony. That is, the inquisition went looking 4050 03:31:32.239 --> 03:31:37.159 for dualist heresy, and by guiding the interrogations through loaded 4051 03:31:37.239 --> 03:31:40.680 and leading questions, found what they were looking for. Whether 4052 03:31:40.719 --> 03:31:44.520 it was there or not. Why dualist heresy to start with, 4053 03:31:44.639 --> 03:31:49.879 though the skeptics argue this emerges from framing the local 4054 03:31:49.879 --> 03:31:55.840 dissidence in Languedoc in classical patristic heresiological terms. More on 4055 03:31:55.879 --> 03:31:59.600 this and a moment to make matters worse. Many of 4056 03:31:59.600 --> 03:32:03.280 the session were conducted through multiple layers of translation from 4057 03:32:03.319 --> 03:32:07.000 Ossitan to French to Latin and back. Many of the 4058 03:32:07.040 --> 03:32:12.239 records of the inquisitional translations of interrogations where Northern French 4059 03:32:12.280 --> 03:32:15.520 speakers are engaging with people speaking Ossitan, and then that 4060 03:32:15.639 --> 03:32:19.319 being transcribed into Latin. These languages were in use, so 4061 03:32:19.360 --> 03:32:22.760 that the records may have been poorly translated or even 4062 03:32:23.040 --> 03:32:26.440 doctor to make the reality of heresy much more real 4063 03:32:26.520 --> 03:32:27.639 than it really was. 4064 03:32:28.280 --> 03:32:30.280 All right, So, if anybody wants to go and look 4065 03:32:30.319 --> 03:32:33.319 at the entire thirty minute video from doctor Justin Sledge, 4066 03:32:33.319 --> 03:32:35.959 I highly recommend it. But essentially what he is saying 4067 03:32:36.000 --> 03:32:38.799 is that the accounts that we have of the quote 4068 03:32:38.879 --> 03:32:44.520 unquote Cathars were typically given at the behest of medieval torture, 4069 03:32:45.000 --> 03:32:47.879 right the same way that King James wrote. The King 4070 03:32:48.000 --> 03:32:51.239 James Bible allegedly says that he got confessions from these 4071 03:32:51.280 --> 03:32:54.840 witches that they had cursed him and his wife and 4072 03:32:54.879 --> 03:32:57.680 his children and all these things. He got those confessions 4073 03:32:57.680 --> 03:33:01.680 from torture, right the same way that the It's simpler allegedly, 4074 03:33:02.280 --> 03:33:05.479 you know, gave testimonies that they were spinning on the 4075 03:33:05.520 --> 03:33:07.200 cross and doing all these things with the head of 4076 03:33:07.280 --> 03:33:10.520 John the Baptist. They acknowledged that after they had been 4077 03:33:10.559 --> 03:33:14.000 tortured for days and weeks and monthly whatever, I just 4078 03:33:14.000 --> 03:33:16.799 stop torturing me kind of thing. So it's very possible, 4079 03:33:16.799 --> 03:33:18.719 and I'm not saying this is one hundred percent fact. 4080 03:33:18.959 --> 03:33:20.959 I'm saying that it's very possible that a lot of 4081 03:33:21.000 --> 03:33:27.399 these Cathar arguments were given at the behest of torture 4082 03:33:27.760 --> 03:33:30.639 for god knows how long about people that may have 4083 03:33:30.760 --> 03:33:34.840 had a dualistic belief system. Maybe not. Maybe they were 4084 03:33:34.840 --> 03:33:36.840 just political dissidents and they were trying to get them 4085 03:33:36.840 --> 03:33:39.360 to admit anything to make them seem like they were 4086 03:33:39.399 --> 03:33:42.479 more and more of an issue than they actually were. 4087 03:33:42.879 --> 03:33:45.879 And through the course of history, they have been named 4088 03:33:45.959 --> 03:33:49.520 the Cathars, the Albergianzi and Crusade. Somewhere is saying that 4089 03:33:49.559 --> 03:33:51.840 there was like two hundred thousand, and I've heard stories 4090 03:33:51.840 --> 03:33:56.079 saying upwards of a million people. Here's the deal. The 4091 03:33:56.799 --> 03:34:00.479 population of France at this time was weive, ever, take 4092 03:34:00.520 --> 03:34:03.719 somewhere around seven to eight. Some accounts are saying nine 4093 03:34:03.719 --> 03:34:06.280 million people. So you're telling me that one out of 4094 03:34:06.319 --> 03:34:09.920 every nine people in France was a Cathar. As they 4095 03:34:09.920 --> 03:34:12.799 were saying that this was only sequestered to the Lunguedoc 4096 03:34:12.920 --> 03:34:16.600 region of France. Again, I'm not saying that Languedoc didn't 4097 03:34:16.680 --> 03:34:21.879 have a dualist Gnostic style religious movement that was trying 4098 03:34:21.920 --> 03:34:24.120 to take root, but I'm saying that the numbers have 4099 03:34:24.200 --> 03:34:28.280 probably been conflated, the stories have probably been conflated, and 4100 03:34:28.799 --> 03:34:31.520 the remaining texts that we do have, like the Secret Supper, 4101 03:34:31.600 --> 03:34:34.399 for instance, how do we know that that's also not 4102 03:34:34.520 --> 03:34:37.159 a plagiarism, very similar to the Book of Enoch and 4103 03:34:37.200 --> 03:34:39.840 the Book of Jasher. I don't know these things to 4104 03:34:39.840 --> 03:34:41.719 be a fact, but that is at least what these 4105 03:34:41.719 --> 03:34:44.639 skeptics are saying as of this time. So I just 4106 03:34:44.639 --> 03:34:45.200 looked it up. 4107 03:34:45.440 --> 03:34:48.399 It says estimates suggest that between two hundred thousand to 4108 03:34:48.520 --> 03:34:52.040 one million Cathars were killed during the Aubagenci and Crusade, 4109 03:34:52.319 --> 03:34:54.920 which lasted from twelve oh nine to twelve twenty nine. 4110 03:34:54.959 --> 03:34:57.600 This campaign is considered by some historians to be an 4111 03:34:57.639 --> 03:34:59.680 act of genocide against the Cathars. 4112 03:34:59.719 --> 03:35:01.559 That's that's from Wikipedia. 4113 03:35:01.719 --> 03:35:04.120 So and you also got to think, like, even if 4114 03:35:04.120 --> 03:35:06.440 it's two hundred thousand, I don't know how many people 4115 03:35:06.479 --> 03:35:09.399 were over there, but it is still over the course 4116 03:35:09.399 --> 03:35:13.120 of twenty years, which is a generation is considered twenty years, right, 4117 03:35:13.799 --> 03:35:14.959 I guess it depends. 4118 03:35:14.639 --> 03:35:17.239 On how you list the generation. But to that point though, 4119 03:35:17.680 --> 03:35:20.319 if the national give or take, they didn't have like 4120 03:35:20.440 --> 03:35:24.120 really great census bureaus at this time, so they're eltimating here, 4121 03:35:24.760 --> 03:35:28.399 right right. Obviously they're estimating that the population of France 4122 03:35:28.559 --> 03:35:32.120 was probably somewhere around seven to eight million, possibly nine 4123 03:35:32.799 --> 03:35:35.479 and they are arguing that somewhere between two hundred thousand 4124 03:35:35.520 --> 03:35:38.040 and one million. Bro, that's a bit of a jump, 4125 03:35:38.239 --> 03:35:38.520 it is. 4126 03:35:38.559 --> 03:35:41.399 That is not a little number, right, right, yeah, because 4127 03:35:41.440 --> 03:35:46.280 how how can you gather such numbers exactly? So I'm 4128 03:35:46.319 --> 03:35:48.799 not again I'm not saying, but there absolutely was a 4129 03:35:48.920 --> 03:35:52.959 crusade that was levied against people for whatever reason the 4130 03:35:53.040 --> 03:35:55.760 Catholic Church Pope Innocent, carried out by the next two 4131 03:35:55.799 --> 03:36:01.520 popes and kings and whatnot that like, like, I don't know, 4132 03:36:01.719 --> 03:36:06.479 just fucking completely wiped out villages for one reason or another. 4133 03:36:06.840 --> 03:36:09.959 Maybe you could say it was because of their Catholic ways, 4134 03:36:10.120 --> 03:36:13.879 or because of their Gnostic ways, or maybe it's maybe 4135 03:36:13.920 --> 03:36:16.159 they were talking shit, so we gotta fucking go let 4136 03:36:16.159 --> 03:36:18.000 them know that that ain't gonna slide. 4137 03:36:17.879 --> 03:36:20.719 You know. Or was it because of political ideations that 4138 03:36:20.760 --> 03:36:24.120 they then took and spun to make it a religious war? 4139 03:36:24.159 --> 03:36:26.479 In reality, it was a political war, the exact same 4140 03:36:26.520 --> 03:36:28.680 thing that was done to the Knights Templar. When you 4141 03:36:28.719 --> 03:36:31.360 look at that, the King of France owed the Knights 4142 03:36:31.360 --> 03:36:35.639 Templar like an insurmountable amount of money, so rather than 4143 03:36:35.680 --> 03:36:37.959 pay his debts, he spun a narrative saying, there are 4144 03:36:37.959 --> 03:36:40.120 a bunch of heretics and homosexuals and we need to 4145 03:36:40.200 --> 03:36:42.399 kill them all, and he got out of having to 4146 03:36:42.440 --> 03:36:45.520 pay his debt. Is it possible that the same King 4147 03:36:45.520 --> 03:36:48.120 of France, allegedly depending on the source, did the exact 4148 03:36:48.200 --> 03:36:52.200 same thing to the Languadoc region for political reasons rather 4149 03:36:52.239 --> 03:36:54.680 than spiritual reasons. They got the pope to sign off 4150 03:36:54.680 --> 03:36:55.920 on it for corruption reasons. 4151 03:36:56.079 --> 03:36:59.239 The term heretic is always seen as a good enough 4152 03:36:59.280 --> 03:37:03.079 reason to go to right, got too, Yeah, Like it 4153 03:37:03.159 --> 03:37:05.920 might be some underlying shit. Maybe I don't know, maybe 4154 03:37:05.959 --> 03:37:08.319 you want to just fuck Homie's wife or something like that. 4155 03:37:08.440 --> 03:37:13.360 Whatever heretic, All right, I found you know, these people 4156 03:37:13.479 --> 03:37:14.840 only eat vegetables. 4157 03:37:15.719 --> 03:37:19.079 I mean, Satan dog burned them, you know what I mean. 4158 03:37:19.760 --> 03:37:21.559 And so very well could have been something like that. 4159 03:37:22.079 --> 03:37:25.399 And whenever I talk about these things, I'm not speaking 4160 03:37:25.440 --> 03:37:27.680 of if like I know, I'm not a historian by 4161 03:37:27.680 --> 03:37:30.639 any means. I just watched a few documentaries, I read 4162 03:37:30.639 --> 03:37:33.959 some articles. I thought it was really fascinating. So very 4163 03:37:33.959 --> 03:37:37.399 well could have been for political reasons. Very well could 4164 03:37:37.440 --> 03:37:39.600 have been just because they were Gnostics, and maybe they 4165 03:37:39.600 --> 03:37:43.479 were pulling some of the uh, some of the Catholics 4166 03:37:43.479 --> 03:37:45.559 into their belief I don't know. 4167 03:37:45.559 --> 03:37:48.079 It's very possible that the story that we've been told 4168 03:37:48.120 --> 03:37:50.920 for centuries it happened exactly the way that it has. 4169 03:37:51.479 --> 03:37:54.040 Like he just said, this is a more recent quote 4170 03:37:54.120 --> 03:37:57.239 unquote debunking of the narrative, and it is still hotly debated. 4171 03:37:57.559 --> 03:37:59.719 So please don't think that I'm coming at it saying 4172 03:37:59.719 --> 03:38:02.280 that all this is bullshit. I do not know, but 4173 03:38:02.319 --> 03:38:03.879 if we are going to give the entire story of 4174 03:38:03.879 --> 03:38:06.440 the Cathars, we do in fact need to bring in 4175 03:38:06.600 --> 03:38:09.120 to take that full third eye all the way open here, 4176 03:38:09.319 --> 03:38:11.399 we got to take in the full picture. There are 4177 03:38:11.440 --> 03:38:13.479 some that say that this was one of the darkest 4178 03:38:13.520 --> 03:38:16.040 annals of the Catholic Church's history, and there are some 4179 03:38:16.120 --> 03:38:18.079 that say that this was a myth that got blasted 4180 03:38:18.079 --> 03:38:21.799 into legend. I am personally of the belief that the 4181 03:38:21.840 --> 03:38:25.399 truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I don't know 4182 03:38:25.479 --> 03:38:27.719 that to be a fact either, but just speaking on 4183 03:38:27.760 --> 03:38:30.559 behalf of what I believe, with all the information that 4184 03:38:30.600 --> 03:38:32.559 we have read in on this day, I think it's 4185 03:38:32.559 --> 03:38:33.959 probably somewhere in the middle. 4186 03:38:33.840 --> 03:38:38.120 Right, And that's with most things, you know, like it's 4187 03:38:38.159 --> 03:38:40.719 always somewhere in the middle. There's His truth, herd truth, 4188 03:38:40.760 --> 03:38:44.079 and then the truth kind of thing. So, yeah, just 4189 03:38:44.159 --> 03:38:45.799 kind of wanted to bring it up. That's not something 4190 03:38:45.840 --> 03:38:46.159 that you know. 4191 03:38:46.200 --> 03:38:48.760 I've heard of the Cathars, but I'd never really heard 4192 03:38:48.840 --> 03:38:51.000 much about them. I didn't know that they were even 4193 03:38:51.040 --> 03:38:51.959 into Gnosticism. 4194 03:38:52.079 --> 03:38:54.239 I thought that it was just like, I don't know, 4195 03:38:54.360 --> 03:38:56.879 like Lutheran or something like that, you know, just another 4196 03:38:56.920 --> 03:38:58.079 branch of Christianity. 4197 03:38:58.559 --> 03:39:01.200 Another thing that he brought up was the Waldians. They're 4198 03:39:01.239 --> 03:39:03.120 still around today, as a matter of fact. They have 4199 03:39:03.159 --> 03:39:06.520 a church in New York and in North Carolina, and 4200 03:39:06.559 --> 03:39:09.280 they are also seen as a duellist sect that calls 4201 03:39:09.319 --> 03:39:11.920 themselves Christian, but are a lot more Gnostic in belief. 4202 03:39:12.440 --> 03:39:15.360 So not all of these crusades took out all the 4203 03:39:15.399 --> 03:39:18.520 Gnostic beliefs, and those Waldians can claim their direct lineage 4204 03:39:18.520 --> 03:39:20.680 to the Waldians in question from the Middle Ages. 4205 03:39:20.760 --> 03:39:23.360 Oh fuck yah, happy that some of them still exist. Then, 4206 03:39:23.680 --> 03:39:27.440 I mean, I think that you have to have multiple 4207 03:39:27.479 --> 03:39:30.000 different beliefs out there, because to say that you know 4208 03:39:30.719 --> 03:39:34.639 is that's a there's no way for us to know, 4209 03:39:35.079 --> 03:39:37.440 you know what I mean, outside of faith and belief. 4210 03:39:37.760 --> 03:39:40.239 And I don't care who you are. You don't know 4211 03:39:40.360 --> 03:39:44.040 shit about why we're here, where we're going, or anything 4212 03:39:44.120 --> 03:39:47.040 like that outside of taking it on faith. That's the 4213 03:39:47.079 --> 03:39:49.479 facts of it, right, And so I think that you 4214 03:39:49.600 --> 03:39:53.120 need to have multiple different theories, multiple different thoughts. Could 4215 03:39:53.120 --> 03:39:56.159 it be this could it be that because you're never 4216 03:39:56.280 --> 03:39:59.959 going to convince one hundred percent of everybody of one thing. 4217 03:40:00.559 --> 03:40:01.879 It's never going to happen. 4218 03:40:01.959 --> 03:40:04.719 It can't. And so you can't just say, well, fuck 4219 03:40:04.760 --> 03:40:07.120 those people that don't believe. No, they're still here, like 4220 03:40:07.159 --> 03:40:09.920 they're still human, they still have you know, sons and daughters, 4221 03:40:10.000 --> 03:40:12.319 they still go to work, they still pay taxes. 4222 03:40:11.959 --> 03:40:12.520 You know what I mean. 4223 03:40:12.639 --> 03:40:15.760 Like, you can't just completely disregard the non believers. You 4224 03:40:15.799 --> 03:40:17.879 still have to bring them into account. They need something 4225 03:40:17.920 --> 03:40:20.719 to believe too, you know, because we all need something 4226 03:40:20.760 --> 03:40:23.559 to believe, because if you don't believe in anything, then 4227 03:40:24.600 --> 03:40:26.120 I mean, what the fuck is the point. 4228 03:40:26.479 --> 03:40:29.840 Nobody should murder someone else because of a belief system, 4229 03:40:30.280 --> 03:40:32.639 Like you shouldn't go to war over this. But at 4230 03:40:32.639 --> 03:40:35.840 the end of the day, whether it's political beliefs, religious beliefs, 4231 03:40:35.920 --> 03:40:41.200 financial beliefs, whatever the case, that is what has spurned 4232 03:40:41.239 --> 03:40:43.879 on so much conflict within the human race and also 4233 03:40:44.000 --> 03:40:46.639 to the people that are gonna come at you for 4234 03:40:46.840 --> 03:40:49.520 the things that you said on this episode. Jonathan is 4235 03:40:49.559 --> 03:40:52.440 not trying to attack the Christian faith. Let's get this 4236 03:40:52.520 --> 03:40:53.239 out of the way. 4237 03:40:53.079 --> 03:40:56.000 Now, and you're not further satanic by any means just 4238 03:40:56.040 --> 03:40:56.879 everybody knows this. 4239 03:40:57.319 --> 03:40:59.520 But you're also not a gnostic and you know why 4240 03:40:59.520 --> 03:41:01.959 you're not because you like to fuck. And if you 4241 03:41:02.120 --> 03:41:04.719 like to fuck, good Cult member, we have a deal 4242 03:41:04.760 --> 03:41:05.200 for you. 4243 03:41:05.719 --> 03:41:07.840 Yeah, go and check out Adam and Eve dot com 4244 03:41:07.840 --> 03:41:12.079 if you are not gnostic. I mean, hey, some there 4245 03:41:12.120 --> 03:41:15.200 was gray areas. I'm sure gnostics. Some gnostics were fucking. 4246 03:41:15.719 --> 03:41:17.440 But I'll tell you one thing they didn't have that 4247 03:41:17.520 --> 03:41:19.399 you have access to, and that's Adam and Eve dot 4248 03:41:19.399 --> 03:41:21.360 com and using the promo code cult to get fifty 4249 03:41:21.360 --> 03:41:24.360 percent off your entire order free shipping discreet shipping. 4250 03:41:24.639 --> 03:41:26.840 You get ten free goodies with that too. You need 4251 03:41:26.879 --> 03:41:28.399 a cock ring? Who doesn't need a cock ring? 4252 03:41:28.479 --> 03:41:31.000 Spice it up, baby, Throw it around your dick, throw 4253 03:41:31.000 --> 03:41:32.559 it around your balls, do it whatever you want. 4254 03:41:32.559 --> 03:41:33.840 Maybe you just want to wear it as a wedding 4255 03:41:33.920 --> 03:41:37.399 ring just to be funny. I don't know, but whatever 4256 03:41:37.440 --> 03:41:39.639 you want to do for whatever kind of reason, we 4257 03:41:39.840 --> 03:41:42.040 have everything over at Adam and Eve dot com and 4258 03:41:42.120 --> 03:41:44.760 it greatly, uh, you know, supports the show, so we 4259 03:41:44.799 --> 03:41:48.360 appreciate everybody that does that does so could you imagine 4260 03:41:48.360 --> 03:41:51.719 that I'm guarantee some sick, fucking couple out there has 4261 03:41:51.760 --> 03:41:55.840 exchanged a cockering and a vaginal aperture in some way, 4262 03:41:55.879 --> 03:41:58.319 shape or form, in exchange of wedding rings. But you 4263 03:41:58.319 --> 03:42:00.840 know you're talking about why you're not. Yeah, yeah, But 4264 03:42:00.959 --> 03:42:03.239 another reason why Jonathan is not a Gnostic slash of 4265 03:42:03.280 --> 03:42:05.840 Cathar is because he does, in fact believe in the 4266 03:42:05.879 --> 03:42:07.920 sacred Herb, and that is a physical thing, and the 4267 03:42:07.959 --> 03:42:11.360 Gnostics believe that everything physical was evil. And if you 4268 03:42:11.360 --> 03:42:14.120 would like to experience a sacred Herb in liquid form, 4269 03:42:14.239 --> 03:42:16.959 in drink form, Jonathan, we got a deal for that too, 4270 03:42:17.000 --> 03:42:19.159 don't we. 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But you don't want to be 4283 03:42:48.639 --> 03:42:50.799 a square. Maybe you're more of a smoker, but you 4284 03:42:50.879 --> 03:42:52.200 just want to be able to mix in. You don't 4285 03:42:52.200 --> 03:42:53.959 want to be that guy that's walking around with a 4286 03:42:54.040 --> 03:42:57.280 dobe full of people that are walking around with wineglasses. 4287 03:42:57.479 --> 03:43:01.559 Go ahead and get you a good feel. Cannabis selter, 4288 03:43:01.680 --> 03:43:05.120 They're delicious. There's five milligrams of THHC in every can, 4289 03:43:05.760 --> 03:43:08.479 one milligran of CBD as well. So a little healing, 4290 03:43:08.520 --> 03:43:10.920 a little numbing, you know, get back right with nature, 4291 03:43:11.120 --> 03:43:13.760 get a little balance in your life. And that's what 4292 03:43:13.799 --> 03:43:15.520 good feels can bring to you. So just go ahead 4293 03:43:15.520 --> 03:43:18.280 and click that link below. 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Our homeboy, Matthew Rife, the 4300 03:43:36.799 --> 03:43:39.319 great nephew of Royal Raymond Rife, the one that developed 4301 03:43:39.319 --> 03:43:41.879 this technology, has a deal going on for all of 4302 03:43:41.879 --> 03:43:43.399 our good cult members and if you would like to 4303 03:43:43.440 --> 03:43:47.680 experience how sound frequencies can actually do real physical healing 4304 03:43:47.879 --> 03:43:50.680 on your body, then you need to get involved with it. 4305 03:43:50.719 --> 03:43:54.479 Go to Realrifetechnology dot com and get your rife machine today. 4306 03:43:54.959 --> 03:43:58.479 And again, Yes, the Gnostics and the Cathars and the 4307 03:43:58.520 --> 03:44:02.440 Waldians and the what was the other on bullions whatever 4308 03:44:02.440 --> 03:44:05.879 they were from Bulgaria, they didn't want anything to do 4309 03:44:05.920 --> 03:44:07.680 with the physical realm. But here's the deal. We do 4310 03:44:07.760 --> 03:44:09.719 live in this physical realm as of this moment. We're 4311 03:44:09.760 --> 03:44:13.479 souls having a physical human experience. And you don't need 4312 03:44:13.479 --> 03:44:15.799 to live in poverty. You need to set something up 4313 03:44:15.840 --> 03:44:18.040 for a financial future, right, you need to do something 4314 03:44:18.040 --> 03:44:20.760 for your retirement, nest egg. The best and easiest thing 4315 03:44:20.760 --> 03:44:22.760 to do would be involved with some precious metals, some 4316 03:44:22.840 --> 03:44:25.159 gold and silver, bully and some minted coins. And if 4317 03:44:25.159 --> 03:44:26.639 you let to get your start in the buying and 4318 03:44:26.719 --> 03:44:28.719 selling of gold and silver, buoyan and minted coins and 4319 03:44:28.760 --> 03:44:31.600 go to the Lincoln the description below to Coecsilver dot com. 4320 03:44:31.600 --> 03:44:33.479 When you fill out your information, our homeboy Wayne Clark 4321 03:44:33.559 --> 03:44:34.600 is gonna be the one to reach out to you 4322 03:44:34.680 --> 03:44:36.079 and get you squared away. Do you want to buy 4323 03:44:36.079 --> 03:44:37.639 a little bit of gold and silver, a lot a 4324 03:44:37.680 --> 03:44:40.040 bit of gold and silver. Here, listen, here's the deal. 4325 03:44:40.159 --> 03:44:42.159 The kings and queens of old new that silver and 4326 03:44:42.200 --> 03:44:45.280 gold were a great monetary system, and the kings of 4327 03:44:45.319 --> 03:44:47.760 our modern day and age understand that as well. Yeah, 4328 03:44:47.760 --> 03:44:50.200 it's a fiat currency system, but that's going to collapse. 4329 03:44:50.239 --> 03:44:52.559 The math is the math, and it's going to collapse eventually. 4330 03:44:52.760 --> 03:44:55.120 They're gonna want something tangible that you're able to cash 4331 03:44:55.120 --> 03:44:57.799 in when that time comes. Silver and gold has always 4332 03:44:57.840 --> 03:44:59.680 maintained a value and they are going to continue to 4333 03:44:59.719 --> 03:45:02.040 increase some value as time goes on. Gold's over three 4334 03:45:02.040 --> 03:45:04.559 thousand dollars an ounce. Unless you got deep pockets, you're 4335 03:45:04.559 --> 03:45:07.280 not buying a gold coin, okay. But silver is a 4336 03:45:07.319 --> 03:45:10.200 little over forty dollars an ounce. It's attainable, it's affordable, 4337 03:45:10.360 --> 03:45:12.840 and it will just continue to increase in value because 4338 03:45:12.840 --> 03:45:16.440 that's how the world works. While it's so affordable. Cocsilver 4339 03:45:16.479 --> 03:45:18.440 dot com link in the description below and get your 4340 03:45:18.479 --> 03:45:21.680 start today. But we want to hear from you, good 4341 03:45:21.719 --> 03:45:24.479 cult members. How do you feel about the Gnostics, about 4342 03:45:24.479 --> 03:45:27.479 the cattars? Is this base in reality? Is this basin 4343 03:45:27.559 --> 03:45:30.319 a myth? Where's you following as far as their belief 4344 03:45:30.399 --> 03:45:32.600 system goes, Do you think they were on something with 4345 03:45:32.680 --> 03:45:35.079 the epescatarian diet? Do you believe that this world is 4346 03:45:35.120 --> 03:45:37.040 inherently evil? We want to hear from you, and the 4347 03:45:37.079 --> 03:45:39.440 best place to let us know would be too Please 4348 03:45:40.360 --> 03:45:42.399 hit the five stars, hit the shares of likes, scribes comment, 4349 03:45:42.440 --> 03:45:44.760 leave a post, reviews, chairs their friends, family shares. If 4350 03:45:44.799 --> 03:45:47.079 we're here's the deal. The more activity the outgoim sees 4351 03:45:47.079 --> 03:45:49.040 across all of our listening platforms, the more we get 4352 03:45:49.040 --> 03:45:51.360 promoted to more potential listeners who could have become potential 4353 03:45:51.360 --> 03:45:53.559 court members. Right Chris, you fine ladies and gentlemen, why 4354 03:45:53.600 --> 03:45:55.600 you're at it? Go check out Minimistics Jonzones of the 4355 03:45:55.600 --> 03:45:56.920 show and he give them the same level of respect 4356 03:45:56.920 --> 03:45:58.639 over here at the five star reviews and the positivity 4357 03:45:58.639 --> 03:46:01.040 in the comments. Come check out CAJA Night and come 4358 03:46:01.120 --> 03:46:02.840 to like each of us were our individual patriars that 4359 03:46:02.879 --> 03:46:05.239 we host every Wednesday night night being Central Banks. Those 4360 03:46:05.280 --> 03:46:07.079 are in the description as well, and we thank you. 4361 03:46:07.120 --> 03:46:09.920 Everybody's already gone and done so. By the way, Moses 4362 03:46:10.120 --> 03:46:12.239 still lived a fucking long time. He lived one hundred 4363 03:46:12.239 --> 03:46:15.319 and twenty years. God damn he lived a long time 4364 03:46:15.440 --> 03:46:18.680 if he existed. But with that being said, this was 4365 03:46:18.760 --> 03:46:22.200 another beautiful episode. I'm the Cult of Conspiracy and my 4366 03:46:22.319 --> 03:46:25.159 name's Jonathan. I'm jacking. There's one very important true the 4367 03:46:25.239 --> 03:46:26.840 vital piece of information we need you to learn just 4368 03:46:26.879 --> 03:47:08.399 as soon as humanly possible. Of Hey, cult members, Jacob 4369 03:47:08.440 --> 03:47:11.799 here just want to ask who wants better sex? The 4370 03:47:11.840 --> 03:47:14.040 best way to get started is to go to Adam 4371 03:47:14.079 --> 03:47:17.440 and Eve dot com Right now. Adam Eve is offering 4372 03:47:17.520 --> 03:47:20.399 fifty percent off just about any item, but that's not all. 4373 03:47:20.639 --> 03:47:22.799 When you get one item, they will also send three 4374 03:47:22.840 --> 03:47:26.079 bonus sexy items and six free movies. They offered a 4375 03:47:26.120 --> 03:47:29.760 screet shipping as your privacy is a priority. 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