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Speaker 1: And now Audio Theater Central.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to Audio Theater Central. This is the show

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that explores family friendly audio drama through news, reviews and interviews.

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I'm your host, JD. Sutter. This is episode two zero eight.

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Welcome to twenty twenty five. Happy New Year. We've got

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a great episode lined up for you. In just a

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little bit. We're going to be talking with composer Jared

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di Pascual about some of the projects that he's been

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working on recently and some he's going to be working

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on later in this year. A lot to talk about

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with this amazing composer, so stick around for that. Also,

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heads up, there's going to be a lot of feedback

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coming in the next episode. Just didn't have time to

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prep my responses to everything for this episode, so we'll

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be getting to all of that later. But we do

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have some audio drama updates to get to in just

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a moment. But before we do that, just wanted to

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say a huge thank you to the people who recently

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signed up for ATC. Backstage. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

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There were a few of you who joined after the

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last episode, and I thank you very much. There were

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also a couple of you who sent in a PayPal donation,

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much much appreciated. Still working on the failed hard drive issue.

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The software solutions that I was trying have all failed me,

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so we're going to move on to other options. So

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that is an ongoing issue. But I just wanted to

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give you a little quick update. Now, I do have

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one piece of feedback that I want to get to

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in this episode, so let's jump into it. So what

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do you think of the show? Please leave your message

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after the chowne Hi, Audi Theater Central.

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, this is awesome preaching hell about j D

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Royan Andrew minum It Victoria. Now, yesterday I received a

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letter from you think man, no time to chart. I've

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got an email. This another package for me today. No,

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it's actually just your mail.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you would like to get in touch with us,

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you can always do that by emailing feedback at Audio

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Theatercentral dot com, comment on the show notes, or you

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consider text or leave a voicemail at our feedback hotline

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which is six two three six eight eight two seven

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seven zero again six three six eight eight two seven

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seven zero. Now, I just wanted to respond to Jeremy's email,

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in particular because he responded specifically to my question from

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the last episode. So but first, he says, I really

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enjoyed the last couple of episodes of the ATC podcast.

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I will start with the episode of the Live AIO show.

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I really enjoyed the episode, even though the sound quality

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wasn't great, and yes, in that episode there were some

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on site recordings that we did in the car and

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just around that just were not the best quality, but

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I thought it was still good content to share with you,

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to give you a little bit of a feeling of

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what it was like to be at the event. And

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Jeremy said, it made me feel like I was there

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even though I didn't attend the show. I like the

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stories that all three of you told about the event.

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I'm glad that you did the episode and all of

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you were able to attend the show and the activities

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surrounding the show. Thank you, Jeremy. I'm so glad that

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that worked out. He also said about the Hardy Boys

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audio drama that you're involved with, I am really excited

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to hear this production and I will be looking forward

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to hearing more details as they become available. The Hardy

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Boys were some of my favorite mysteries growing up and

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I can relate to that. They were mine as well.

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And things are moving forward on that project a little

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slower than we would have liked, but that's the way

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it goes sometimes, but we hope to be making some

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cast announcements very very soon. On that, Jeremy continues, I'm

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really excited that there are going to be more Jake

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Muller Adventures coming out soon. It was great hearing from

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Darby Kern and Micah about this. They do a great

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job with audio drama. And finally, he says, if I

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had to pick three favorite audio dramas in twenty twenty four,

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I would have to pick the Pause and Tails episodes

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that came out this year, the Brinkman Adventures I started

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listening to this show in September of this year, and

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the Adventures and Odyssey episodes that came out this year.

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And I just have to say, you can't go wrong

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with any of those options. They're all great. So I'm

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so glad that we had some really cool stuff that

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came out in twenty twenty four, and there are some

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really cool stuff coming in twenty twenty five as well,

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so lots to look forward to, and Jeremy is one

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of our most frequent emailers, and he always ends his

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emails with your loyal fan and loyal listener, Jeremy. So

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huge thanks, Jeremy. Really appreciate all the feedback into all

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of the interaction over the years. Thank you so much

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for continuing to listen to ATC. Really appreciate it. Well,

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let's move into some updates.

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Speaker 1: We inter up this program to bring you a special

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report news tonight, a brief look at the headlines. Now

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they want exciting, fast piece news that's relevant and entertaining

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Like this.

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Speaker 2: I want to briefly talk about some things that have

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recently released, and then we're going to jump into a

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little bit of looking ahead at twenty twenty five. So

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I'm sort of combining some here's what I'm thinking into

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the updates because I just want to talk briefly about

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some of the ones that I'm really looking forward to

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this year. But before we do that, as always, you

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can send your updates to us if you want us

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to help you get the word out about your project,

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send those updates to us. Go to PFM dot link

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slash ATC News or click the link in the sidebar

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on our website, or you can always just send it

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in through the feedback options as well well. The first

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recent release is from Faith Filled Stories and this one

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is called an Extraordinary Lunch. You've heard us teasing this

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for a little while now and it has been released

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and you can go and listen to this episode, which

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has some great actors in it. We've got Nathan Carlson

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and Christianna Thomas and a handful of others. It is

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a fun episode. And if you don't know, this series

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is produced by Austin Peachey ATC contributor and ADA member,

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and so he had done a table read of that

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project early on in the script phase and I had

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helped up with that, and so he gave me a

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shout out in the credits on that episode. So thank

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you for that, Austin. Appreciate that. But it's a really

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cool take on the story of the Little Boys Lunch

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from the New Testament, and I think you will enjoy it,

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So check it out. Link is in the show notes

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to both the podcast feed and to the website. Next up,

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they slipped this in right at the end of the year.

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Time Truck Chronicle season two five brand new episodes are

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now available on the window Seed app. If you want

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to check it out, go to window seat dot io

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and sign up for a free trial if you're not

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already a member, and check it out. Five new episodes.

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Like I said, this is a fun show that I'm

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privileged to get to play one of the main characters in.

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And the episodes are as follows Episode one, The Boy

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and the Giant, Episode two, The Pancake Project, Episode three,

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Tower Trouble, Episode four, The Runaways Part one, and episode

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five The Runaways Part two. Some really really fun episodes

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that explore some themes and people from the Old Testament

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in a fun and new sci fi way. And it's

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just a really fun show, great for the whole family,

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and there's humor mixed in with moral lessons. It's a

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lot of fun to be a part of and I

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think you'll enjoy listening to that. So link is in

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the show notes. Go check out Time Truck Chronicles Season two.

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Speaker 1: One.

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Speaker 2: More quick update here before we jump into the list

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of upcoming releases for twenty five, and that is on

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Robin Hood Rising to Honor. This is that joint production

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from LRT Media and Eternal Future Productions and Craig Hart

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has finished the voice track editing for all of season two.

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Sound design has begun and about half of the episodes

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are actually already finished with a sound design and have

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been sent to the composer. So this is moving along

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rather quickly, and the team has brought back Dominic Trice

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as the composer to score all of the episodes in

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season two. So this is exciting. Really looking forward to

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this show, and I would imagine those will be coming

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pretty soon. It seems like things are moving. I had

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a pretty good clip. Well, we just did a post

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on our website with a huge list of some great

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audio drama that is coming this year in twenty twenty five.

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There is a lot of cool stuff that I'm looking

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forward to. Now. If you hear some noises here in

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the background, some clicking or whatever, it's because I'm looking

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at the list on our website as I'm recording this

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and I'm just going to go through it. You might

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hear my scroll wheel moving or some clicks. But I

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just wanted to go through this list, and I'm not

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going to mention every single one on there. You can

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go read it for yourself. There's a lot of cool

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stuff coming. I just suffice it to say there's a

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lot of cool stuff to come, but I wanted to

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just highlight a couple of the ones that I'm really

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really looking forward to. So I think I've made it

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clear that I'm a big fan of Jake Muller Adventures.

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You know, I've said this many times too. I just

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like that there is somebody focusing on an older demographic

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in this space, and so that is one that I'm

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really looking forward to. We have Undead that's supposed to

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be coming fairly soon, and Engineered will be recorded this spring,

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So those two in particular really really looking forward to.

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And then from New Birth Audio Productions, the claim this

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Western that we've heard about or quite some time now,

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a couple of years now, I think, or maybe it's

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been about a year and a half since it was

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first announced something like that. I've said before I love Westerns,

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so that one I'm really looking forward to. We've got

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a lot coming from Glenn Haskell and Heart Matters, and

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probably the most the one from Glenn I'm most looking

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forward to is his Christmas stuff. I just like the

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way he does really interesting takes on Christmas themed stories.

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So of those I'm looking forward to. And we just

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mentioned a moment Ago, Robin Hood Rising to Honor really

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really looking forward to that. Loved season one, so that's

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one that I'm super super excited about. But also from

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Eternal Future Productions Resurgence, this is a standalone story. Now

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I'm blanking right now if we've ever heard the length

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of this. I don't know if it's going to be

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similar to like Mary Holiday or if it's going to

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be a longer, closer to a feature length production, but

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it is a period romance story and so historical fiction.

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I'm excited about this. Everything that I've heard about this

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production just sounds really cool. So that one I'm really

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looking forward to. And from LRT Media, the next release

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in their short block Holms series, they're doing an adaptation

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of The Hound of the Baskervilles, just called The Hound,

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and that one really looking forward to that. I'm a

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Sherlock Holmes fan, have been since I read the stories

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as a kid. Hearing these classic stories be told in audio,

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it's always fun and I'm enjoying Craig Heart's twist on things.

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And the last one, Tillie Whim, was really cool. So

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I'm looking forward to this a lot. And the last

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one I wanted to mention is the Road to Kayluma.

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I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. This is a brand

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new fantasy series from a newer producer, the Jesus Film Project,

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and this just sounds super cool. The artwork looks amazing.

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They say it's a reimagining of a Bible story set

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in a fantasy world. Now, this is not something new.

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We've heard this kind of thing done before, but I

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don't know. It just sounds like it's going to be

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really really cool. And John Campbell is going to be

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composing the music for this, and I've heard some of

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the cast, Bethany Baldwin, Andy Harvey, Kara O'Brien, Ian Lalam.

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So it just sounds like it's going to be a

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high quality project and I'm really looking forward to this.

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And so those are the ones that I'm looking forward

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to the most in twenty twenty five. At least, those

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are the ones we know about so far. Of course,

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there's going to be some more stuff that comes out

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that we don't know about at this moment, but there's

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just a lot of cool stuff coming in this year.

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And I'm going to be continuing work on the micro

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audio drama series that I launched last year called One

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Day in Aspen Creek. There were two episodes that actually

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released of this show in December, so not that long ago.

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If you missed those, go check those out. But there

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will be more of that coming as well in twenty

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twenty five. So I'm super super excited about the state

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of family friendly audio drama in this new year. Lots

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to look forward to. Well, I think it's now time

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to bring our guest on the show.

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Speaker 1: I have some very important information and I thought i'd

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be getting it into the hands of a real reporter. Sir, sir,

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can I speak to a moment? Oh well, there's nothing

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to it. I just ask you the questions and you

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answer them in the tape recorder. Here play the interview.

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Speaker 2: Well, I am thrilled today to have composer Jared Dipesqual

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on the podcast again. It's been a very, very long

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time since we've had an in depth conversation on the show.

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And if you don't know Jared, you've probably heard his

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music in Adventures and Odyssey, Focus on the Family Radio Theater,

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the Brinkman Adventures, Augustin Institute Radio Theater, just to name some.

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And I don't think it's any secret if you've been

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listening for any length of time, that Jared's one of

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my favorite composers, and so I'm just delighted to have

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him on the show again today.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Jared, Oh, thanks JD Man. That means a

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lot to me.

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Speaker 2: You know, your first appearance on the show was back

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in twenty fifteen, episode sixty five. Here we are in

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the two hundreds. Now, Wow, that's that's been that's way

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too long. What in a world?

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah, that's a lot of shows you've done. Man.

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Speaker 2: You know, we first connected, if I'm remembering correctly, we

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had done a post about the Hiding Place score if

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I'm not mistaken, and then we get connected over that,

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and then it just grew from there. You ended up

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coming on the show, and then, you know, a lot

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has happened since then. You know, in that episode sixty five,

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we talked about the importance of character themes, how you

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got started in audio drama, the challenges of Ley Miz,

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and the Hiding Place. So we're not going to retread

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that ground. If you missed that episode, I highly recommend

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you go back and listen to that conversation because I

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really listened to it. Before we sat down for this conversation,

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and there's still so much good stuff in there that

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you shared, Jared, So listener. If you haven't heard that,

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go back and listen to that. But again, a lot

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has happened since then. Soundtracks have been released, You've worked

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on more different series, and you and I, you and

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I have worked on projects together. And I'm gonna get

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a little transparent here, and I hope you don't mind, Jared,

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But shortly after your appearance on the show, I went

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through some extremely difficult, tumultuous times in my life and

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you were one of the only people to reach out

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to me, and you sent some very very meaningful emails.

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You even typed out prayers that you were praying for me,

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letting me know that you were concerned multiple times. And

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I haven't said this to you, I've said it in

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an email, but to your face, I deeply, deeply appre

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did that. It meant the world to me. At that point.

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We hadn't even met in person yet, and yet you

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were I don't know, I don't know why I even

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shared some things with you, and I was like, I

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was just in a very vulnerable point in my life

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and we had just worked on Kipling's If, and that

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is a deeply meaningful poem and to me personally, and

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so I don't know. I just was vulnerable and I

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just shared a little bit with you, and you just

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were so caring. And one of the last things you

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said in the thread of emails was that you said,

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hang in there, your story isn't over. And my goodness,

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I just want to say publicly thank you. You don't

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have any idea how much that meant to me.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Jing, You're more welcome. Man. I'm glad we connected

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at that particular point in time, right, it was kind

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of meant to be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And working on IF with you another thing

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that you influenced me. This is supposed to be about you.

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I'm sorry. You know. We worked on IF and I

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did the narration for that piece, and I had done

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a little bit of voice work prior to that, primarily

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for announcing for people's podcasts and different things like that,

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and you really encouraged me after working on that project,

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and then Katie Lee also several different times really encouraged me.

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And it's because primarily because of YouTube that I even

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started putting a focus on voiceover work and to this day. Now,

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I've done voice acting for all different sorts of projects,

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audio dramas especially, and so again it's a thank you

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to you because of that encouragement that you gave me

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after working on that project. So thank you.

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Speaker 1: That's cool. You know, I think if I remember correctly,

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like I didn't know it was you, and I think

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I was just like, hey, who's the guy that you

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had to do the voice tracks? He's great, you know, and

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then you're like, oh, that's me. Oh well you did

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good man, But I don't think. I don't think I

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knew that until after I had scored it. All. Wow, well,

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and that's a great poem, and I felt like, if

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that's the guy that I'm working with, because that poem

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is so meaningful to me too write And you're like,

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there's sort of like a kindred spirit already simply because

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that's the poem you chose. And I knew if if

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that's the poem this guy chooses, it says a lot

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about who he is as a person. And I like

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this guy. Right now. We were off to a good start.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well, and I don't want to presuppose upon you,

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but i'd like to think that we have become friends,

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even though we've only met in person once.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, totally man.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, you know, we've got a lot to talk about.

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So enough of that much, he's stuff moving on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that you talked about in

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that in the last conversation is that you and your

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agent had heard about Focus on the Family Radio Theater

347
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and they were going to be working on Narnia, and

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so that was one of the impetuses for you to

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start reaching out to them. Of course we know that

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that went to John Campbell, but I was just kind

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of curious, from your perspective today looking back, what property,

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whether it's a public domain one or not. If you

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heard today that there was a producer working on an

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audio drama adaptation of it, you would be like, call me,

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I'm your guy, I want to work on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean, Narnia to me still is

357
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the end all be all right for me for who

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I am, for what really excites me creatively and spiritually.

359
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Narnia is the hell I die on ten times out

360
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of ten. And you know it's been told a lot,

361
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and I'm like, I think I have something to say

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to I don't know if that chance would ever happen.

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But I do think that is the story. I think

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Lord of the Rings is untouchable. I don't think anybody ever.

365
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I think Howard Shore said it perfectly and it never

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needs to he said again, I mean because it's fantasy

367
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stuff that really fantasy with like a deeper human element

368
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that is so meaningful to me. But I think, I mean,

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Narnia is not public domain, but that is still the

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story I would love to tell.

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Speaker 2: So are there any other fantasy series that you really enjoy?

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Speaker 1: You know? That's a good question, you know, and I

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know people, I'm just looking at my bookshelf. The science

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trilogy of C. S. Lewis to me it I really

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like the first one, Out of the Silent Planet. I

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think that's fantastically interesting. I think maybe the discoveries of

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science since the time that he wrote it, where we

378
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knew so little about outer space and now we know

379
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so much more. I think that the story is a

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little kind of like outdated and incorrect scientifically, but nonetheless

381
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the premise of Out of the Silent Planet is amazing

382
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and I would love an opportunity to do that. I

383
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think that such a cool story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Out of the three that's my favorite out

385
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of the Silent Planet and me too, Me too. You know,

386
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I probably need to revisit them because there's so much,

387
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especially in the second or the last two, there's there's

388
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so much I don't know, there's I'm trying to think

389
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how to word this out on Silent Planet is a

390
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little more straightforward of a story. Yeah, the other two

391
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there's there's a lot more symbolism. At least that's the

392
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way I interpreted it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear you. For me too, it's it's sort

394
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of like the theological ideas he was expounding on are amazing,

395
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but the story itself kind of for me lost momentum

396
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and excitement. Because if we don't have a great story,

397
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the theological stuff you're trying to like convey it, I

398
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,920
don't know, it's not enough to keep me interested. Where

399
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the Silent Planet, that story was pretty darn cool.

400
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I thought, particularly Pera Landra has several moments

401
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where it just kind of bogs down, at least for

402
00:22:02,039 --> 00:22:02,759
me as a reader.

403
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, me too. When I read it, I'm like,

404
00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:08,559
I'm gonna get through this. I'm got I am at C.

405
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S Lewis, I am reading this book.

406
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in just a couple of months, BBC is

407
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releasing a full cast audio dramatization of that Hideous Strength.

408
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I don't know why they skipped the first two.

409
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Speaker 1: Me neither, but I don't know why either. Maybe someday

410
00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:29,920
someone will make Out of the Silent Planet. Maybe someday

411
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somebody would call me to do it, and I'd be

412
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pretty excited about that.

413
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Speaker 2: Maybe we need to get Philip Glasboro to reach out

414
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to his BBC folks and have them give you a

415
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,480
call so we can have you do Out of the

416
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Silent Planet or something.

417
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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, Yeah, man, reach out to Philip. I

418
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:46,880
don't know him that well, so by all means put

419
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the bug in his ear.

420
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Speaker 2: Well, you've talked about in the past the agonizing process

421
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,680
of scoring lame is and you ended up in the

422
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,039
hospital and everything. What has been the toughest character theme

423
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:02,119
in recent years?

424
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Speaker 1: Man? You know, they're all tough. I mean, I'm not

425
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,440
gonna lie, they're tough. Show themes are tough. Some have

426
00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:14,359
come easier than others. I suppose. I would say that

427
00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:20,759
Freedom and Joan of Arc were two laborious projects, and

428
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:26,160
they're laborious for different reasons. But they were equally laborious.

429
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,440
I think with Freedom, I had never well, I you know,

430
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,559
I had score. I guess Little Women is an Americana story, right,

431
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,839
but it's it's a very small, like slice of life

432
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:45,079
story about a family where Freedom is a huge American story,

433
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,119
I guess, right. And I had never had the opportunity

434
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to do something that large ten episodes. I mean, this

435
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:53,839
is it. This is sort of like Jared's opportunity to

436
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,440
write his American theme. And that just kept coming over

437
00:23:58,519 --> 00:24:00,839
my head. Is that, you know, it's like your inner

438
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,559
critic is just screaming at you. Not good enough, that's

439
00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:07,680
not good. That's it, you know. But I do remember

440
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:13,200
like coming up with little musical cells that I'm like, okay,

441
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,160
these four notes are interesting to me, you know. And

442
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,400
then it took days and days to write the theme.

443
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,000
And I was telling a really successful Hollywood composer friend

444
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of mine about how long it took to write it,

445
00:24:27,079 --> 00:24:29,680
and he's like, geez, Jared, I've never taken that, like,

446
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,279
I've never allowed myself to have that long of a

447
00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:35,359
time to write a theme. He couldn't wrap his head

448
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,640
around like taking four or five days to do it,

449
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,000
But he loves it, He's like, but it's a great theme.

450
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,240
And so the freedom thing kind of became like a

451
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,640
big jigsaw puzzle of like I would write these little

452
00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:50,319
musical cell ideas. I'm like, I like that, I don't

453
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,880
like that, I like that, and kind of putting it together,

454
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:55,240
you know what I mean. And it is like trying

455
00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:57,720
to make pieces fit and you're like, Okay, that doesn't fit,

456
00:24:57,799 --> 00:25:00,599
but that fits over here. I mean it. It was

457
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,640
so laborious. But I remember the day that, like the

458
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,359
pieces all finally fit and the theme came together with

459
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,200
the accompaniment, and I remember being like, that's it. That's it,

460
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,119
I got it, you know. So that was that was

461
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,559
laborious and Joan of Arc. What Mate Joan of Arc

462
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,680
really hard was the amount of time that I had

463
00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:27,759
between them telling me I had Joan of Arc, which

464
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,799
was like twenty twenty one, and then to the point

465
00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:34,559
of actually doing it, which was like maybe I don't know,

466
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,440
years later, And I remember just sitting on the knowledge

467
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,880
that that job would be coming, and I remember thinking,

468
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,960
this is going to be the job that defines me.

469
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,039
Like talk about pressure, but I was just like, this

470
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:51,839
is the character that's going to define how I view myself.

471
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,599
The story is just too amazing. But you've got years

472
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,400
of like, I don't know the script, I don't know

473
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,480
who's acting in it, but you've got years of like

474
00:26:01,559 --> 00:26:03,599
what are you going to do? What are you going

475
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,359
to do? You know? And I remember going up to

476
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,400
my studio and nothing had been recorded. I didn't know

477
00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:12,160
anything about how Paul was going to do it, and

478
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,880
I'm like, I've got to write something. I've got to

479
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,480
just start moving on this, even though I don't even

480
00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:20,960
know when I'm going to start the job. And I

481
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,519
spent like a week in my studio experimenting on it,

482
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,440
and I was like, well, I don't know. I was like,

483
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,880
I wrote something I don't know. Maybe it's good, maybe

484
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,200
it's not. But I did wind up using like a

485
00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:36,119
couple of musical idioms from it years later that would

486
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,119
find his way in the score. And just so like that,

487
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,319
I think the hardest part about Joan was the time

488
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,039
that I had in my head to go crazy, you know,

489
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:46,839
you know what I mean?

490
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:50,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I want to get to more specifics about

491
00:26:50,599 --> 00:26:52,519
Joan in a little bit of course. Let's let's jump

492
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:54,200
back to Freedom for just a moment. I've told you

493
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,480
this already before the main theme of Freedom is probably

494
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,079
one of my favorite things you've ever written. And I

495
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,799
listen to that that even just that one piece of music,

496
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:07,119
but often the whole soundtrack. All I mean, it's it's

497
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,319
in constant rotation over here. And so can you clarify

498
00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:12,599
a little bit what you mean when you say you

499
00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:15,839
have different cells? So it sounds like to me like

500
00:27:16,319 --> 00:27:18,880
it's almost that was like a putting together a puzzle here.

501
00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:21,440
So are you saying that you write a few note

502
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,759
sequence and then you just set that aside and then

503
00:27:23,759 --> 00:27:26,480
you can move on. So it's not working sequentially.

504
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean if you look at the

505
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,480
constructs of a melody, if you look at the like say,

506
00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:35,599
the long version, you know, and we don't need to

507
00:27:35,599 --> 00:27:37,559
talk to musical, but like, you know, whether it's a

508
00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:40,240
four bar phrase or an eight measure phrase, that eight

509
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:44,640
measure phrase is made up of micro melodies that all

510
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,200
kind of come together to make the big melody. And

511
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,880
within those micro melodies, there are so many ways you

512
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,039
can iterate it, you know. I mean, I mean, I

513
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,200
remember for Freedom, I knew i I'm like, okay, I

514
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,599
want to start on that note bah, but up I

515
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,759
know what, bah, I know, I want to get there,

516
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,480
so bah bah, And I was like, okay, how many

517
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,160
iterations can you do between that note and that note?

518
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:14,680
And I mean I would write like five versions of

519
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:19,880
that right, And then I was like ba ba. So

520
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,200
I'm like okay, but da and you'd write so many

521
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,000
of the notes in between those two notes. Does that

522
00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:27,000
make sense? Yeah?

523
00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah?

524
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: And I mean so then like I would label them

525
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,799
like A one, A two, A three, A four, B one,

526
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,440
B two, B three, B four you know what I mean.

527
00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:40,799
And you would start listening, Okay, what does A one

528
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,960
sound like with B one? And you're like, okay, no,

529
00:28:43,119 --> 00:28:47,079
there's two. There's some similarities there, they're two redundant. What

530
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,240
is A one plus B two? I mean it's insanity

531
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,559
right wow. But because the worst thing, you know, I

532
00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:58,599
can hear this in younger composers is like, I like

533
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,799
what you're doing, but this is too similar to that.

534
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,480
There's not enough you know, it differentiates between this phrase

535
00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:07,160
and this phrase. You need to think about an opposite

536
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,559
movement here. You need to think your interval jump is

537
00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:12,559
the same. There's just it's not there. It's good, but

538
00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:15,960
it's not there. Too many composers don't spend enough time

539
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:19,519
iterating their work to find the best version. And I

540
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:22,440
think that's true of any artist across any skill set.

541
00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:25,039
Is like, if you think you have something good, you

542
00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:28,640
should iterate it until you find the best version of itself.

543
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,119
And if that was the original version, at least you

544
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,839
can say that, hey, this is it. This is really good.

545
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:35,759
I've tried to iterate it, and I keep coming back

546
00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:39,119
to that one. But for me, the iteration led to

547
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,359
me finally finding the right part of the theme then

548
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,519
finally putting the jigsaw puzzle together A one plus B

549
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,000
three plus C two plus D five And you're like,

550
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:52,480
that's the theme that you JD listen to.

551
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: Okay, that is amazing. And so even before you said

552
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,519
that this applies across other arts, I was already thinking

553
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:37,000
that this sounds very much like the process of writing

554
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:39,440
with words. I mean, there's a reason probably why it's

555
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,240
called writing music, because if you're going to write a novel,

556
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,039
you say, Okay, this is where I want the story

557
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:46,039
to start, this is where I want to end up,

558
00:30:46,119 --> 00:30:48,720
this is where this is the culmination, This is the

559
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:51,960
de numa of this story. But how do I get there?

560
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:55,400
And so figuring out the middle that's the key, and

561
00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:59,160
the iteration and revising all that word there is a

562
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,400
little too repeat. I already used that phrase. Yeah, three

563
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,960
symptomcess prior. Let's let's switch it up. Yeah, So that's

564
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:06,640
that's fascinating.

565
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. It's the same thing because most

566
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,559
of the time, I mean, if you're a writer, you know,

567
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:13,119
you pretty much know where you're starting. You have an

568
00:31:13,119 --> 00:31:14,759
idea of how you're story, and you kind of know

569
00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:16,680
how your story's going to end. But let's face what

570
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,119
happens between act one word one and act four word

571
00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:25,480
last is a myriad of possibilities, and you want to

572
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,400
make sure you're telling the right story in the right beats,

573
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,599
with the most interesting way to do it, to keep

574
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,400
the listener or reader engaged, right, And that was what

575
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,759
I wanted. I felt like, you've got one shot at

576
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:39,559
an American theme. Who knows in your life if you're

577
00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:43,039
ever going to get this opportunity. You got to exhaust

578
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,240
all possibilities, so you know, you wrote the best theme

579
00:31:46,319 --> 00:31:49,440
you could possibly put out there. And I feel like

580
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,240
I did, Like I feel like I did. I wrote

581
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:53,880
the best thing I had in my mind.

582
00:31:54,079 --> 00:31:56,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And to.

583
00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: Know you like it means a lot to me. That's awesome,

584
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,640
Like the fact that like, hey, and someone likes it,

585
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:00,599
that means I did good.

586
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,759
Speaker 2: In fact, I don't remember exactly when it was a

587
00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:07,160
year or so ago. I even texted it out to

588
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,160
a group of friends that I'm in a group chat.

589
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,839
They're all music fans. Not all of them are audio

590
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,000
drama people, but they all like music, and I sent

591
00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:17,119
them to Spotify link. I'm like, hey, you guys have

592
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,720
got to listen to this, because I was listening to

593
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,160
it that day and I'm just like, man, this is

594
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:21,759
so good. I'm like, I'm going to share with these people,

595
00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:25,119
even though they're not audio drama people. And several of

596
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:26,759
them said, oh man, that's really good.

597
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,039
Speaker 1: You know it's funny. I use that theme. So I

598
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:33,640
run a travel baseball team for my son and we're

599
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,440
doing a big fundraiser for his team is going to Cooperstown,

600
00:32:36,519 --> 00:32:38,680
and I did a video of the boys on the

601
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,440
field practicing and I used that piece of music right,

602
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,960
and it's like, it's so inspiring and it's so it's

603
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,960
funny because it's American and baseball's American. If you watched

604
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,480
it you would think I wrote a theme for the

605
00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:56,880
great American pastime of baseball. It's so funny. Everybody has

606
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,079
said to me, like, how did you write that piece

607
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:02,640
of music? It's perfect. I'm like, it's the great American theme.

608
00:33:02,759 --> 00:33:02,960
You know.

609
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:04,599
Speaker 2: That is fascinating.

610
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: I'll have to send you the Lenks so you can

611
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:09,119
see the video, because I think you'll just totally be like,

612
00:33:09,359 --> 00:33:11,720
that's amazing. It totally works well.

613
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: It just speaks to the fact that, especially in audio drama,

614
00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:19,920
the music is also telling a story, and so stories

615
00:33:20,079 --> 00:33:24,799
that have impact have universal application are not not necessarily

616
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,759
universal application, but they're they're they're they're broader than the

617
00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:31,519
specifics of that story, and so being able to to

618
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,440
translate that theme from one project to another, it just

619
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,559
shows the versatility of it. And that's that's fascinating to me.

620
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty cool.

621
00:33:41,359 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: So, you know, freedom aside that that's the epic thing

622
00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:48,480
from the Brinkman Adventures, but generally the Brinkman episodes are

623
00:33:48,519 --> 00:33:52,119
not like that. They're more adventurous or even just slice

624
00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:54,759
of life things like like Peppy the Christmas Cat kind

625
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:58,279
of thing totally, and so I think primarily, you know,

626
00:33:58,519 --> 00:34:01,880
aside from your film work. Primarily what you are known

627
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,200
for in audio drama be when we spoke the last

628
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,000
time was the big epic scores for radio theater. You

629
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,159
had done some odyssey stuff, but obviously when you work

630
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,079
on an odyssey, they typically bring you in for these

631
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:18,559
multi parts or more epic stories. So Brinkman's and even

632
00:34:18,599 --> 00:34:21,039
the stuff that you're doing for Heart matters very very

633
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:24,840
different feel, and they're shorter pieces, so twenty twenty five minutes,

634
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,360
thirty minutes and again more slice of life, slower paced

635
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,840
kind of thing. How does that differ from you know,

636
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,519
a feature like Joan or Patrick. Yeah, when it's completely

637
00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:36,320
totally different.

638
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean Ian Boltman is a great

639
00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:44,400
writer of slice of life stories that have like a

640
00:34:44,519 --> 00:34:49,519
deep philosophical idea, you know. I mean he's really good

641
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:52,079
at it. He can do and I save him. And

642
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,960
Phil Lalor is great at this. But essentially they can

643
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,440
write twenty five minutes and it felt like an hour

644
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,599
and a half, like sort of like not in a

645
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:03,599
bad way, but sort of like the emotional connections you

646
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,559
have and the impact that normally, like a full length

647
00:35:06,599 --> 00:35:09,199
feature would have on you. It's very difficult to do

648
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,440
in twenty five minutes right to sort of have like

649
00:35:11,519 --> 00:35:15,000
your story beats, and Ian's really good at it. And

650
00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:16,920
I always feel like with not all the time, but

651
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,760
with many Brinkman adventures, I feel like I'm writing like

652
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,840
mini movies, so to speak, and you're really trying to

653
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:29,880
create that feeling of act one, two, three, four musically

654
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:33,599
right that you give them a complete musical experience in

655
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:37,599
twenty five minutes. Does that make sense? That the introduction

656
00:35:38,119 --> 00:35:41,639
to the problems that arise in any story, to the

657
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,840
gutting it out with the characters, to the resolution, And

658
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,679
so I really try to like give a complete musical

659
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,400
experience for a Brinkman adventure. Even though there's Slice of Life.

660
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,199
I look at like, I mean, like, honestly, all the

661
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,480
professional Hollywood composers that write great Slice of life'sc to

662
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:04,679
me either like the ultimate professional composers right of like

663
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,119
it's just a regular role Slice the life story. But

664
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,519
yet at the end of it, you're like, but dang,

665
00:36:10,559 --> 00:36:12,719
that was you did great? You know what I mean?

666
00:36:13,199 --> 00:36:15,679
So I look at those of like a challenge of like,

667
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,199
can I be as professional as I can making the

668
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,480
listener care in twenty five minutes? Does that kind of

669
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,039
make sense. Yeah, and so I really love challenging myself

670
00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:29,320
with Brinkman adventures of like, can I make you really

671
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,199
care about this?

672
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,639
Speaker 2: Yeah? And you talked a moment ago about, you know,

673
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,559
inexperienced or or newer composers, and I was kind of wondering,

674
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,280
as a as an accomplished composer, do you always listen

675
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,360
to a score or piece of music with that with

676
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,280
that critical ear? Why did they use that note there?

677
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,960
What's going on with that coord Are you able to

678
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,960
turn that offer or how does that experience? Does it

679
00:36:53,039 --> 00:36:55,039
ruin music for you?

680
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:58,519
Speaker 1: No? I think it heightens my appreciation for it for

681
00:36:58,559 --> 00:37:01,679
the really talented composer. You know, I really am able

682
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,119
to listen to an audio drama or watch a movie

683
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,400
and honestly take in everything that's going on. I can track.

684
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,599
If I like the story, I can track, if I

685
00:37:10,679 --> 00:37:12,719
like the dialogue, if I like the actors, if I

686
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,599
like the oral experience or the visual experience, I can track,

687
00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:19,159
if I like the score. I mean, it's really weird

688
00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:21,880
that I can and I'm sure I'm not the only one,

689
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,320
but that you can engage a piece of media and

690
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,760
genuinely like it. But at the same time, digest everything

691
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,480
that's going on and kind of have your inner I

692
00:37:32,519 --> 00:37:35,519
always had I take notes of like that's really cool.

693
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,800
I love what he or she did there musically reacting

694
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,199
or not reacting, or like, wow, I can't believe they

695
00:37:42,199 --> 00:37:45,320
made that decision. That's just not a good decision. But

696
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,360
I'm always in observation mode, for sure, always in observation mode.

697
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:52,480
But I'm a lifelong learner. I love learning. I just

698
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:54,519
so it's just who I am.

699
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: So how are you able to distinguish or know when

700
00:37:58,519 --> 00:38:02,000
a composer is just making us dialistic choice versus not

701
00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:04,519
knowing the rules or just being a total amateur.

702
00:38:05,639 --> 00:38:08,639
Speaker 1: Well, you know what I mean. Really like, the great

703
00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:14,719
composers are thematic composers, right, And when I say thematic composers,

704
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,639
it doesn't have to mean the big, sweeping melody, but

705
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:23,079
it is musical idioms and ideas that are built upon

706
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,880
and have recurring places in time. Right Where composers, young

707
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,280
composers who are just writing Q to q Q to

708
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:36,760
q with no real commonality or thought or thematic building,

709
00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:39,440
you can just spot it a mile away and you're

710
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,039
just writing cues. I mean, there's a lot of that

711
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:44,760
in TV movies as well as there is an audio

712
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,119
drama of just writing cues and that's you can spot that,

713
00:38:48,199 --> 00:38:50,079
And that's just never what I wanted to do. I

714
00:38:50,119 --> 00:38:52,000
was always I was brought up in the world of

715
00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:53,039
thematic writing.

716
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think what I've noticed in some projects

717
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,000
and even in some of my own because I am

718
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,239
not a musician, but I am an appreciator and lover

719
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,559
of music, and so I can pick up things that

720
00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:12,119
I do like. But when I'm working on a project

721
00:39:12,159 --> 00:39:15,599
and I'm producing something I have in the past, and

722
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:18,280
I'm trying to be more cognizant of this now. If

723
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,480
I'm using stock music or whatever, I have chosen things

724
00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:23,079
that I'm like, Okay, this works for this moment, but

725
00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:26,880
I'm not thinking big picture here, And this cue I

726
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,880
used in Seeing one to scene two is in conflict

727
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,559
with what I use from scene three to See four.

728
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,440
They don't flow't, they don't match in any sort of way.

729
00:39:36,039 --> 00:39:37,880
And so trying to be cognizant of that, I think

730
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,880
is a big thing for newer producers of audio drama

731
00:39:41,559 --> 00:39:42,039
for sure.

732
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:43,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point.

733
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about Patrick. I don't

734
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,760
we don't have to get too much into the details here, but.

735
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,039
Speaker 1: A great Patrick's totally worth talking about. Man, that thing

736
00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:54,559
is a monster, right.

737
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, speaking of monster, there is a scene in

738
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,480
this one that I think is one of the most

739
00:39:59,519 --> 00:40:04,400
dramatic scenes in all of audio drama. And I'm talking

740
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,880
about the exorcism scene here.

741
00:40:06,599 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: Totally agree.

742
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 2: And the score there just it builds, and the tension

743
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:19,119
that the performances, it all comes together. It's it's crazy.

744
00:40:19,159 --> 00:40:21,760
It's it's it's crazy. I don't even know how else

745
00:40:21,800 --> 00:41:12,880
to describe it. How on earth did you approach that?

746
00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:16,119
I mean, I'm just blown away in how good that

747
00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:16,880
all came together.

748
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, Patrick, I mean Patrick is sort of like I

749
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:25,079
think Patrick and Joan are like they're my like tombstone pieces, right, honestly, Like,

750
00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:28,639
at the end of the day, those two scores are

751
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:33,440
I'm so proud of them, right. If composers are known

752
00:41:33,519 --> 00:41:37,519
for a specific thing, those are my pieces, right, I mean,

753
00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:42,960
Patrick is Patrick's amazing. It's an amazing story. I didn't

754
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,639
know the story, right, I mean, prior to the audio drama,

755
00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:47,159
if you would have asked me about Saint Patrick, I

756
00:41:47,159 --> 00:41:48,719
would have had no clue. And then when you read

757
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,840
the script, you're like, I had no idea this is

758
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,119
this is the guy of what I'm writing. You know,

759
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:57,360
I have such an affinity for Irish music already because

760
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,840
I'm a quarter Irish and my grandma my eternal grandmother,

761
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,000
so I have like I have already part of that

762
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:06,719
kind of in my dna and love of that music.

763
00:42:07,199 --> 00:42:09,599
But I mean, the score for Patrick goes so far

764
00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:12,400
beyond just an Irish little melody or whatever.

765
00:42:12,679 --> 00:42:13,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

766
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,639
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that made Patrick so

767
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:21,239
amazing was my commitment to find a woodwind player that

768
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,320
was truly Celtic of that time, you know, And I

769
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,199
talk about that in my one of my behind the

770
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:29,800
scenes video is that I scoured YouTube and I found

771
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:35,119
the girl who was Celtic roots out of France, and

772
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:38,159
she her playing was as close to what the original

773
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,440
Celtic styles were hundreds of years ago, you know. And

774
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,360
then of course me using my friend Sarah, who I

775
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,239
paid for lessons for her to take Gaelic lessons so

776
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,360
that she could speak the language and she could sing

777
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,039
the language properly.

778
00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 2: You know.

779
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,199
Speaker 1: We found a linguist that taught her Gaelic so that

780
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,920
when she sang it would be spot on.

781
00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: You know.

782
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: I had talent around me that I knew I could

783
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,719
do something special because I say that to so many

784
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,280
people because so many people are doing scores in the

785
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,119
box just their computer. Man, when you don't involve other people,

786
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:16,400
your scores are flat. I'm sorry, they're flat. And when

787
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,679
you involve experts around you, what can happen can become magical.

788
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,679
And so I knew I had that with Patrick. I

789
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,639
knew I had the talent around me to do something special.

790
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,119
But man, that whole experts back to that scene, I mean,

791
00:43:29,679 --> 00:43:32,079
I mean I was scared to death because you know

792
00:43:32,119 --> 00:43:35,159
that's episode seven, and you know you're going through these

793
00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:37,840
episodes and you're ticking it off, and with every tick

794
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,599
off of queues, you're like, I'm one queue closer to

795
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:43,920
this queue, and all of the scenes leading up to

796
00:43:44,159 --> 00:43:46,960
and I started episode seven and I'm like, I really

797
00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:49,079
like what I got. I like where I'm going. I'm

798
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:52,039
setting this thing up really well. You're doing great, Jared,

799
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:55,119
You're doing great. And then that day comes. I remember

800
00:43:55,159 --> 00:43:58,079
it was I ended a day on Friday with the

801
00:43:58,199 --> 00:44:00,239
last scene leading up to it, and I know new

802
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,360
Monday morning was going to be the day. And You're

803
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,639
just like you're just panic, you know, like just like

804
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,800
I don't like, I didn't sleep. I was such a

805
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,480
wreck because I'm like, it's the scene. You're doing the scene,

806
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,800
and it was so hard. And I remember talking to

807
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,159
Dave Arnold and Dave was like, Jared, you just gotta

808
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,880
stop overthinking it. Just do it. You're ready, You're ready,

809
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,280
go do it. I was like, all right, I'm gonna

810
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,840
do it. So I started, you know, and I mean

811
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,840
the scene really there's a point. It's an eight minute sequence.

812
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,960
The thing really picks up. About three minutes in is

813
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,800
where the thing really picks up. And man, I don't know.

814
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,639
It was just like I had such clarity of like

815
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,000
all the music and the thematic stuff I had written beforehand.

816
00:44:44,639 --> 00:44:49,519
I just had such like crazy supernatural clarity if that

817
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:52,760
makes any sense, about where this is gonna go here,

818
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,119
This is gonna go here, this is you're gonna change this,

819
00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:57,559
this is you know what I mean to sort of

820
00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:02,199
assemble the Jigsaw puzzle, and that everything that you had

821
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,159
been telling thematically where now is going to feel like

822
00:45:05,199 --> 00:45:09,760
it was almost on steroids, right, Every idiom that you

823
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,400
had now is like but blown up even more epically.

824
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,320
Does that kind of make sense feeding and it was

825
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,559
so fun to be just like, this is it, but

826
00:45:19,679 --> 00:45:21,480
now we're going to blow it up. This is it,

827
00:45:21,559 --> 00:45:23,719
but now we're going to blow it up. The orchestrations

828
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,679
are going to become massive, you know what I mean.

829
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,920
And it was just so cool because it took five

830
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,440
days to write that scene and that's a long time, man.

831
00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:35,760
I mean, most composers don't give themselves that time. But

832
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,760
I was like, this is when am I ever going

833
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,840
to write this scene again in my life? I owe

834
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,079
it to myself to do this right. And every day

835
00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:44,920
I would end the day and I would be just like,

836
00:45:45,039 --> 00:45:46,880
I can't believe it, you know, And I would wake

837
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,559
up the next morning with like clarity about where I

838
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,480
was in the scene and what to do. By the

839
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:56,440
end of it, when the exorcism has happened and the

840
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,840
demon is exercise and Sarah sings the melody full throttle,

841
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,639
I mean, I was just like, I mean, I was,

842
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,599
I lost it. I think I was just crying my

843
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,920
eyes out because you're like, Wow, thank you God for

844
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:13,280
like you gave me these pieces and you knew that

845
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:16,760
three months later these pieces would come to fruition and

846
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,960
I would have clarity about how they fit. And it

847
00:46:21,039 --> 00:46:23,400
just kind of felt like you're witnessing your own miracle,

848
00:46:23,519 --> 00:46:28,159
like a miracle that God gave you this, and I

849
00:46:28,199 --> 00:46:30,559
got to see it come to fruition. I mean, that

850
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:34,079
scene is a miracle. The scene is a miracle.

851
00:46:35,679 --> 00:46:38,559
Speaker 2: So you talk about bringing in the vocalist there, how

852
00:46:38,559 --> 00:46:41,519
does that work? I mean, what part of the process

853
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:44,159
do you find Okay, now this is the point where

854
00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:46,199
I need to bring in a vocalist, and then when

855
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:47,719
do you actually reach out to them?

856
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, so you know what, And this was the

857
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,480
first time, Patrick Mark, the first time that I that

858
00:46:53,559 --> 00:46:57,920
I totally changed how I wrote music, and it's it's

859
00:46:58,039 --> 00:47:02,119
altered everything since then. And that's largely to do with

860
00:47:03,119 --> 00:47:07,039
the time constraints put onto composers and how things are mixed.

861
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,840
Where in the old days, and this is the old

862
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,360
days of radio theater, that you would write the entire

863
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,199
Little Women's score right, and they would approve cues. But

864
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,800
then I had the money where I would go record

865
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,360
the orchestra for two days. I would record the orchestra,

866
00:47:22,599 --> 00:47:24,840
I would mix for a week, and I would literally

867
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,840
deliver two hours of music. And then then whoever was

868
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,239
mixing it's whether it's Todd to Steed or Nate Jones.

869
00:47:31,519 --> 00:47:35,840
They would then start the mix process. But now everybody

870
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,559
is mixing as you go, So you're delivering the music

871
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:41,840
for episode one and at the same time a sound

872
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,119
designer is going in and then the mixer is going

873
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,719
and sort of like you're only one step ahead of

874
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,280
all other skill sets because they're waiting on you so

875
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,400
they can mix. So because maybe now they're releasing things

876
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,679
one episode at a time as opposed to the physical sea,

877
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,199
you know what I mean. So I knew with Patrick

878
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,760
they would be wanting mixes as I went, meaning I

879
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,239
couldn't keep calling Sarah of like hey, I got a

880
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,400
cue for you, Hey, I got you know, Like I

881
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,599
knew that just wasn't gonna work out. And so I

882
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,480
wrote all these thematic ideas for Jessica the flute player

883
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:20,360
and Sarah beforehand, and it was totally on a gut

884
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,159
of like I think we're gonna we're gonna sing the

885
00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:26,440
theme like this, We're gonna sing it like this, We're

886
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,320
gonna sing it in this tempo, We're gonna do it

887
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,199
in this key. You're going to improvise here. I think,

888
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,079
you know what I mean I made all of these

889
00:48:33,159 --> 00:48:37,719
like creative like decisions before I even wrote a note

890
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,119
of music, sort of based on like please God, I

891
00:48:40,159 --> 00:48:43,519
hope this works. I hope I'm getting everything, because this

892
00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:47,920
is all I got. And so I recorded Sarah first first,

893
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,400
singing those themes, and I was like, I want you

894
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,679
to sing one at the top of your lungs. I

895
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,119
really think that that's going to play out later in

896
00:48:56,159 --> 00:48:58,679
the story. I don't know where exactly, but and so

897
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,719
that's what I did. And so I'm kind of like

898
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,679
always throwing these sound bites of recorded information of my

899
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,280
flute player or Sarah for Patrick and then writing around it.

900
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:12,400
That is kind of weird, it's yeah. And so for

901
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,079
that I came to that moment with crom Kruak with

902
00:49:16,159 --> 00:49:19,239
the freedom. I'm like, this is Sarah's moment. This is

903
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,599
the moment I've been waiting for. This is when I

904
00:49:21,639 --> 00:49:24,119
told her to sing it at the top of her lungs.

905
00:49:24,119 --> 00:49:25,559
That I had no clue where I was going to

906
00:49:25,639 --> 00:49:27,559
put it. This is it and you put it in

907
00:49:27,679 --> 00:49:31,679
and you're like, Holy Molly, this is amazing. And so

908
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,199
that's kind of like how I how I write now

909
00:49:34,639 --> 00:49:37,599
where I make a ton of creative decisions early, and

910
00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:42,280
I record instrumentalists right away and then I write it

911
00:49:42,559 --> 00:49:45,119
like that. I would say it takes a ton of

912
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:48,239
experience to be able to do that and sort of

913
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,239
forethought of knowing how your jigsaw puzzle is gonna work together.

914
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:57,199
I wouldn't recommend it to anybody because it's it's a lot,

915
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,840
it's a big gamble, but it's it's always paid off for.

916
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:03,559
Speaker 2: So you put together this sort of mental framework of

917
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:06,159
what the score might look like, and you have these

918
00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:09,559
little pieces, different elements, you assign to them sort of

919
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:13,719
you know, you're subcontracting out these little sections, and then

920
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,679
you have all these tools. You have your entire knowledge

921
00:50:16,679 --> 00:50:20,800
of music, You have your musical tools, your instrumentation, and

922
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,639
then you have these the vocals and the other instruments,

923
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,880
and you can just assemble from there.

924
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:29,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that's cool, that's cool. Yes, you know, and

925
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:32,480
I think just that the time constraints have forced me

926
00:50:32,639 --> 00:50:35,280
to because my number one priority is I want to

927
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,280
deliver a quality score. I want to deliver something that's awesome.

928
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,159
But the time constraints have changed, and it's made me

929
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:47,599
rethink how can I still provide something great within the

930
00:50:47,639 --> 00:50:50,599
time constraints that they have upon me, and that's kind

931
00:50:50,599 --> 00:50:54,400
of become my process. But the key is is working

932
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,199
with amazingly talented musicians. That stuff that I do in

933
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,440
the beginning is so awesome because they're awesome, you know

934
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,320
what I mean? And so that's why I'm really specific

935
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,639
about who I work with. I work with players that

936
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:10,400
I've flushed out over the years that are so good

937
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:11,360
at what they do.

938
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,679
Speaker 2: And I love that aspect of your composing to how

939
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,559
you bring in these other elements, and I think it

940
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,679
makes the whole score much richer.

941
00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:25,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agreeing, especially with Patrick Joan of Arc Freedom.

942
00:51:25,119 --> 00:51:29,360
Those scores are like they rely huge on those musicians,

943
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:29,599
you know.

944
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:33,559
Speaker 2: Well, Shifting gears a little bit from these historical epics

945
00:51:33,559 --> 00:51:37,639
to Jake Muller adventures. So, oh men, tell us a

946
00:51:37,679 --> 00:51:39,960
little bit. I don't even know the story. How did

947
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,400
you originally connect with Derby and Micah and how has

948
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,480
that experience been to score a high octane sort of

949
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:50,400
adventure versus these slower paced historical epics.

950
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess they must have known who I was

951
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,800
and maybe they reached out to me. It's a long

952
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,719
time ago, right, It's a long time ago. And you know,

953
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,199
they had a pilot. They are a trailer. They had

954
00:52:01,199 --> 00:52:03,639
a trailer for the first Jake Muller and I don't

955
00:52:03,639 --> 00:52:06,320
even think it was Dougan. It was a different actor,

956
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,840
you know, they had different actors. It was just like

957
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,239
a proof of concept thing. And I was interested. I

958
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:12,800
was like, Hey, I really want a shot at this.

959
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,480
I really think I can do something. Let me score it.

960
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,800
And I did, and I think we all everybody knew.

961
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,480
It was like, Oh, this is gonna be this is cool,

962
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:25,199
it's going to work. But yeah, they I mean they

963
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,559
really left me. They left me alone. They really did.

964
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,760
They didn't give me much direction, which was totally fine.

965
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,679
It was such a Jake Muller is such a unique

966
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:39,000
world that it is its own thing, and I wanted

967
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,639
to be left to kind of figure it out what

968
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,000
this own thing is. And and I like what I

969
00:52:44,119 --> 00:52:46,360
arrived at and yeah, it's totally different. I think that's

970
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,119
what's so fun about it. I mean, that score definitely

971
00:52:49,159 --> 00:52:52,360
got me a lot of attention with other Hollywood composers.

972
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,280
People heard that and they were like, holy Molly, that's

973
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,719
all synth, that's all your samples. You know, Like I

974
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,719
think I got asked to be a guest panelist at

975
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,239
the Nashville Film Composium because of that score.

976
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:06,559
Speaker 2: Wow.

977
00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very funny. It was like people's ears

978
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:12,000
really perked up after that first Jake Muller score, which

979
00:53:12,039 --> 00:53:14,360
is cool. It was it was really fun to write

980
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,320
something modern, you know, totally not something I get to

981
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,519
do a lot, and I was so happy to do it.

982
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:25,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's park on Joan here for a minute.

983
00:53:25,159 --> 00:53:27,719
Victory of Joan of Arc. You've kind of alluded to

984
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,840
it a little bit, but how grueling was it to

985
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,159
go through this? I mean, it's we know the story.

986
00:53:32,159 --> 00:53:35,320
It doesn't have a happy ending, and so I can't

987
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:40,679
imagine the mental drain working on this story. And so

988
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,559
I was just kind of curious, what are your overall

989
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:45,559
thoughts as you look back on this. There's been some

990
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:50,039
time since it's come out. Now it's not quite as intense, probably,

991
00:53:50,639 --> 00:53:53,239
and maybe what are some of the things that you

992
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,639
learned from that process that you might apply to this

993
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,159
next big epic that you're working on or something.

994
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I will say that that story has

995
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,239
a permanent imprint on my life. That character Joan, and

996
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:11,480
not character that person she's real. This is This was

997
00:54:11,559 --> 00:54:13,320
my take on it, and this was why it was

998
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,320
so hard, because you know, you have you write a

999
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,800
story as a writer, and maybe these characters you write

1000
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,559
are relatable in some way, maybe the audience member will

1001
00:54:23,599 --> 00:54:26,440
connect with them. Oh I see myself a little bit

1002
00:54:26,559 --> 00:54:29,800
in this, or I can really relate to that character struggle.

1003
00:54:30,119 --> 00:54:32,800
You know, maybe it's a version of yourself you wish

1004
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,400
you were you know what I mean. But with Joan

1005
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,000
of arc you cannot relate to it. You cannot relate

1006
00:54:39,039 --> 00:54:41,519
to her. I kind of liken it to the way

1007
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,280
when C. S. Lewis was talking to mere Christianity about

1008
00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:47,119
Jesus and he says he's either a liar, a lunatic,

1009
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:51,119
or he's God. There are no other ways. Jesus did

1010
00:54:51,119 --> 00:54:54,360
not mean for him to be interpreted in any other way,

1011
00:54:54,639 --> 00:54:57,320
you know what I mean? And I think Joan is

1012
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,199
either a liar, a lunatic, or a messenger of God.

1013
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,400
There is no other way to put it. And you

1014
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,320
can't relate to her. You know, whether it's like Michael

1015
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,239
Jordan right, who is the greatest basket? You know, whatever

1016
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,400
are you believe the greatest factor? You cannot relate to

1017
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,199
Michael Jordan, his abilities are you can't just be like well,

1018
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,079
you know, if I practiced a little harder, I could

1019
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:20,079
have been as good as No, you couldn't. You were

1020
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:23,039
not going to be you know what I mean? And

1021
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,840
Joan is that you and your most virtuous you will

1022
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,679
not be juonk You and your bravest you will not

1023
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,920
be Joan. She is operating above you because she's either

1024
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,320
a lion or a lunatic, or she's a messenger of God.

1025
00:55:37,679 --> 00:55:40,199
And my job was to make you believe she was

1026
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,559
a messenger of God. I didn't want you to relate

1027
00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:46,519
to her. I wanted you to be inspired by her.

1028
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:51,920
Because for me, my whole thing was I would follow

1029
00:55:52,039 --> 00:55:55,719
this girl. I would tell my wife that at dinner conversations,

1030
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,880
I would be like, man, I don't follow many people, right,

1031
00:55:59,039 --> 00:56:03,079
Like I don't get excited about people, like like political candidates,

1032
00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:05,000
like to follow them like I'm going to stake my

1033
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,719
I'm putting the stake in the ground that you are

1034
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,599
the person I'm following, right, I follow Jesus Christ. That's it.

1035
00:56:11,159 --> 00:56:14,079
But man, Joan, if I was around, if I saw

1036
00:56:14,119 --> 00:56:16,880
what I saw, I would be like, I think I'm

1037
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,639
going to battle with this girl. That's how like it

1038
00:56:19,679 --> 00:56:22,800
affected me. And I wanted the score to convince you

1039
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:27,400
to follow her. And I believe I did that. Between

1040
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:30,760
what her peasant theme is the girl and then her

1041
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:36,159
Holy Mission theme, these themes, I just feel like that's

1042
00:56:36,199 --> 00:56:39,039
the music I used to hope that you would follow her.

1043
00:56:39,559 --> 00:56:42,320
Does that make sense? And yeah, you're right. I mean

1044
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,719
the ending, it's like, you know how the story ends.

1045
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,880
Most people on the planet has heard of her and

1046
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:53,000
they know how it ends. And that was a horrid

1047
00:56:53,440 --> 00:57:00,000
scene to write. Horrid And again, it took a long time.

1048
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:03,960
I'm probably a week or so, and I was a wreck.

1049
00:57:05,039 --> 00:57:09,000
I remember being stuck. I remember you know it's again.

1050
00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:10,960
It's like one of those eight minute sequences that are

1051
00:57:11,039 --> 00:57:14,840
so long, and you're like, I love what I got

1052
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,000
in the front. It's so cool. I love like every

1053
00:57:17,079 --> 00:57:18,880
day you're like, okay, I did it. I like it.

1054
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,440
I like it. But then I remember I got stuck.

1055
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,840
I got stuck somewhere like on day four, you know

1056
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,320
what I mean. You come to this moment and I

1057
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,199
don't know if you ever feel like this when you're writing,

1058
00:57:30,519 --> 00:57:32,639
but where you're like in such a zone you just

1059
00:57:32,679 --> 00:57:36,159
feel like it's just coming. You're just plowing through it.

1060
00:57:36,199 --> 00:57:38,920
There's like nothing could stop you but I And that's

1061
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:40,440
the way I felt. But then with Joe and I

1062
00:57:40,519 --> 00:57:45,599
hit this snag and I remember just like horrid, this

1063
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,519
feeling washing over me of like you lost it, you

1064
00:57:49,599 --> 00:57:52,840
lost it, the vibe, the mojo, it's all gone. What

1065
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,440
are you going to do? And I remember begging God.

1066
00:57:55,519 --> 00:57:58,280
I was like God, please, please, please help, please help

1067
00:57:58,519 --> 00:58:00,800
show me what to do, and imber just hitting my

1068
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,519
keyboard and I finally found the chord and it was

1069
00:58:04,599 --> 00:58:07,039
like my world opened up again, you know what I mean.

1070
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,960
And then I turned off the audio because I knew,

1071
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:12,840
you know what I mean, like there comes a point

1072
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,519
with audio drama, like with any story, I can turn

1073
00:58:15,559 --> 00:58:17,320
it off and I know what I need to write.

1074
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,159
And I just wrote it, you know, for the next minute.

1075
00:58:20,519 --> 00:58:22,000
And then I was like, all right, I'm gonna listen

1076
00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:23,880
to it, and I put her back in and it's

1077
00:58:23,920 --> 00:59:05,320
when she's being burned, and it was amazing, and I

1078
00:59:06,519 --> 00:59:11,480
cried like a baby. I mean, like the deep you know,

1079
00:59:11,559 --> 00:59:15,039
that deep croy, you know, the deep cry within your

1080
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:18,320
soul of that kind of pain of loss. It's like

1081
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,840
I felt like I lost her, like I felt like

1082
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,239
because I remember telling summerly my wife of like, and

1083
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,800
I'm getting emotional about it. I was like, today's my

1084
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:34,679
last day with Joan. I feel like I've fought alongside

1085
00:59:34,719 --> 00:59:37,559
her for months on end. And maybe it's the way

1086
00:59:37,599 --> 00:59:40,199
I mean, it's maybe the hopelessness the apostles felt with

1087
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,280
christ of like I'm not gonna hear her voice again.

1088
00:59:44,639 --> 00:59:47,400
Today's the last day I get to work with Joan.

1089
00:59:47,719 --> 00:59:50,039
And I was so sad. And when she died and

1090
00:59:50,119 --> 00:59:53,400
the burning, it was just like the worst pain, as

1091
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,599
if it really happened. I know, it sounds so stupid,

1092
00:59:55,639 --> 00:59:58,440
it sounds so cheesy, but that's just how deep I

1093
00:59:58,719 --> 01:00:05,559
was into it. Now, Yeah, and it's just man, I

1094
01:00:05,639 --> 01:00:08,199
that that I'm just I feel so blessed that I

1095
01:00:08,239 --> 01:00:12,199
got to write that scene, that I did it, you

1096
01:00:12,199 --> 01:00:14,559
know what I mean. It's it's like another miracle. It's

1097
01:00:14,599 --> 01:00:17,119
like that and the Patrick Exorcism are the two miracles

1098
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:18,760
of my musical life.

1099
01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you every moment of that entire sequence,

1100
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:29,639
every single element of that audio drama, it's perfectly meshed together.

1101
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,960
I remember the moment to this day when I listened

1102
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,920
to that audio drama, and I reached that scene for

1103
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:40,440
the first time, and it's one of those I was alone,

1104
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,239
but it was one of those moments where it's like

1105
01:00:43,599 --> 01:00:46,599
people describe as the air left the room. You know,

1106
01:00:46,679 --> 01:00:49,400
It's just like and it just became dead, silent, and

1107
01:00:50,079 --> 01:00:53,920
I just I froze, you know, I'm just listening. I

1108
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:59,440
was so pulled into that. Yeah, and you you, I

1109
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:03,639
don't know, at least for me, I became part of

1110
01:01:03,639 --> 01:01:06,480
the story at that moment. Yeah. And I'm just an

1111
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:13,000
observer there watching this horrific thing happen. And the score

1112
01:01:13,159 --> 01:01:16,679
is so understated. And I don't mean that in a

1113
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,039
negative way. It's it's supposed to be. It needs to

1114
01:01:19,039 --> 01:01:22,679
be at that moment, and it's just everything's sort of

1115
01:01:22,679 --> 01:01:27,440
taking a backseat to Heather the actress. Yeah, and then

1116
01:01:27,559 --> 01:01:30,519
and then it starts to slowly build up after, you know,

1117
01:01:30,599 --> 01:01:34,159
after a little bit of time, and my goodness, I

1118
01:01:34,199 --> 01:01:36,559
don't know how anybody can listen to that and not

1119
01:01:36,679 --> 01:01:37,199
be moved.

1120
01:01:38,599 --> 01:01:42,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's it's very cool, man. It's it's a very

1121
01:01:42,719 --> 01:01:45,639
special scene for me, you know. And Paul told me that.

1122
01:01:45,679 --> 01:01:48,840
Paul said he came out of his study and he

1123
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,199
had to explain to his wife why he was like

1124
01:01:51,239 --> 01:01:55,079
a sobbing mess, you know, because you're right, it's the

1125
01:01:55,119 --> 01:01:57,280
air left the room. You feel like you are in

1126
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,519
the story. You feel well. I mean what a great

1127
01:01:59,559 --> 01:02:03,039
thing do Drama is at its best of Like it

1128
01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:06,639
really can transport you into the moment as if you're

1129
01:02:06,679 --> 01:02:10,440
a bystander in the room. That's amazing that that can happen.

1130
01:02:10,679 --> 01:02:13,119
You know, it doesn't happen all the time, but the boy,

1131
01:02:13,199 --> 01:02:15,599
when it does, it's amazing.

1132
01:02:16,039 --> 01:02:18,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a visceral moment. I mean you feel it

1133
01:02:18,639 --> 01:02:20,920
in your gut, even just as a listener. I mean

1134
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:22,719
I had nothing to do with that production, you know,

1135
01:02:23,039 --> 01:02:26,159
I'm just a you know, a consumer of this amazing story,

1136
01:02:26,639 --> 01:02:28,800
and it had that effect on me. I can't even

1137
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:30,679
imagine what it was like for you and Paul, who

1138
01:02:30,679 --> 01:02:33,679
were part of creating it. And for Heather I mean, yes,

1139
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,920
speaking of the actress, I mean, how much of that

1140
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,199
her performance helped to inform what you did there?

1141
01:02:39,679 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I always said that, like, you know,

1142
01:02:42,079 --> 01:02:44,000
I remember I was telling you how, you know, I

1143
01:02:44,039 --> 01:02:46,800
started to noodle around with Joan years before because of

1144
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:50,920
the whole time thing. But when they delivered the voice tracks.

1145
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,559
I did not have a theme for Joan of Arc.

1146
01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:57,880
I had all these like ideas, these accompaniment ideas, but

1147
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:00,920
I didn't have her theme. And I was like, because

1148
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,000
that is like rule number one in composerville. It's like,

1149
01:03:04,159 --> 01:03:07,440
if you're gonna start the job, you better have a

1150
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:11,519
theme for your the story. And man, I push play

1151
01:03:11,639 --> 01:03:16,320
and I heard Heather's voice and I was just like enamored,

1152
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,000
and I wrote the theme right away. I literally I

1153
01:03:19,039 --> 01:03:21,239
heard her voice, I heard the first scene. I wrote

1154
01:03:21,239 --> 01:03:23,320
the theme, and I'm like, we are good to go.

1155
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:28,039
And Heather is amazing. And that just can't be overstated enough,

1156
01:03:28,079 --> 01:03:30,679
is man, the importance of the actors you get for

1157
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,679
audio drama. If they're not good, nothing will save it.

1158
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:39,000
Your sound design won't save it, your music won't save it.

1159
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:42,599
It has to start with them, right, And Heather delivered

1160
01:03:42,599 --> 01:03:46,000
the goods. Heather is probably one of the best actresses

1161
01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:48,840
I've ever worked with them on the planet. She's awesome.

1162
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:51,360
Never met her, but boy ol boys, she awesome.

1163
01:03:52,639 --> 01:03:55,159
Speaker 2: Now on the blog, there is a post we went

1164
01:03:55,199 --> 01:03:58,360
into the process of this score talking about some of

1165
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,159
the other creatives you worked with on this project. So

1166
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:03,239
listener if you haven't seen that post, it's linked in

1167
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,559
the show notes of this episode. Highly recommend you go

1168
01:04:05,679 --> 01:04:08,559
check that out. It's fantastic. Even if you haven't heard

1169
01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:12,480
Joan of Arc yet, go read that post after you

1170
01:04:12,559 --> 01:04:15,559
listen to this episode and then go get Joan of Arc.

1171
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:17,280
I mean they put it out as a podcast so

1172
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:18,320
you can go listen to it.

1173
01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1174
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,599
Speaker 2: Well, I like to kind of put out the feelers

1175
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:26,480
into the community whenever we have a big guest such

1176
01:04:26,519 --> 01:04:29,639
as yourself on the show and get some questions from

1177
01:04:29,679 --> 01:04:32,400
the community. And so I have a couple here that

1178
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,719
I wanted to run through. One is from Betsy Nicholson

1179
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,760
over at Triple Chord Productions. She asks, when you're working

1180
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,679
on a particular audio drama, what does the collaboration look

1181
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,199
like with the sound designer? Because obviously the score and

1182
01:04:46,239 --> 01:04:48,960
the sound design are very closely related and they have

1183
01:04:49,039 --> 01:04:51,159
to work together. So what does that look like when

1184
01:04:51,159 --> 01:04:52,639
you're working with a sound designer?

1185
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:56,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it depends on the job, right, because like

1186
01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:01,199
Joan of Arc, the sound design is enormously important and

1187
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,840
it is very dictates the timings of things too. Whereas

1188
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,360
maybe if it's a slice of life and I don't

1189
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:10,320
really need to know what the background is and it

1190
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,599
doesn't really matter. But man, with Joan of Arc, and

1191
01:05:13,679 --> 01:05:16,679
with any story that's an epic proportion, I would I

1192
01:05:16,719 --> 01:05:21,000
would encourage this is to be loose and fluid a bit,

1193
01:05:21,559 --> 01:05:24,039
because the voice editor is doing the best they can

1194
01:05:24,159 --> 01:05:27,039
to guess at things, especially when it comes to sword

1195
01:05:27,039 --> 01:05:30,480
fights or battles or like the opening of the gate.

1196
01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:34,320
I mean, they're doing the best they can do in envision. Okay,

1197
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,480
I think that seems like enough time. And then the

1198
01:05:37,559 --> 01:05:40,719
sound designer and I are working normally at the same time,

1199
01:05:41,159 --> 01:05:44,760
and so that sound designer is going off of that

1200
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,239
voice track. But for me as a composer, there are

1201
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:52,679
times where I'm like, I need another beat or I

1202
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:57,159
need two less beats, right, And so I would tell Todd.

1203
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,960
I would say, hey, just so you know, between line

1204
01:06:00,159 --> 01:06:03,599
one seven and one forty nine, I've cut two seconds

1205
01:06:03,599 --> 01:06:07,039
out and I've tightened this up so that this can

1206
01:06:07,119 --> 01:06:09,639
hit more naturally, or or I've lengthened something, you know

1207
01:06:09,679 --> 01:06:13,360
what I mean. And because we're not really on CDs

1208
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:15,440
the way we used to be, the way everything is

1209
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:19,000
more of like digital streaming, you're not tied into those

1210
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:23,039
very strict time constraints that radio theater was timed, you

1211
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:25,880
know what I mean, they didn't have but anyway, so Todd,

1212
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:29,280
I mean, Todd hated me through that process because because

1213
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:31,079
he you know what, I feel horrible for him, because

1214
01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:33,079
I mean, you think about the sound designer of like

1215
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:38,320
all of the stams of ambiences and clinks and booms

1216
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,159
and right, and I'm like, hey, buddy, I cut two

1217
01:06:41,159 --> 01:06:44,199
seconds out and he has got to like back time

1218
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:46,960
at all, you know what I mean. But I have

1219
01:06:47,079 --> 01:06:50,079
that like with Nate Jones. He understands that is going

1220
01:06:50,119 --> 01:06:52,679
to happen with me, and Nate is like, hey, I'll

1221
01:06:52,719 --> 01:06:55,199
accommodate it. Todd was a little bit more taken, like

1222
01:06:55,679 --> 01:06:58,519
I think I got him by surprise of like you

1223
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:01,440
mean you cut another two seconds, you know what I mean.

1224
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:06,519
So it's huge to be in conversations with that sound

1225
01:07:06,519 --> 01:07:10,559
designer on those epic moments because your timings are so

1226
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,840
intertwined together, right, And there are times where I'll be like, hey,

1227
01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:18,719
I'm gonna let you have the bridge hitting the ground

1228
01:07:19,199 --> 01:07:22,360
and then I'll react to it, you know what I mean.

1229
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,280
There's no need for us both to be on the

1230
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,840
bridge or that kind of thing, and so you've got

1231
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,960
to be talking all the time to the sound designer

1232
01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:33,480
about this is what I'm doing or what are you doing?

1233
01:07:33,719 --> 01:07:35,719
You know, how can I react to what you're doing?

1234
01:07:36,159 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is something that I've definitely learned in recent

1235
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,840
years as I've actually gotten into, you know, doing post

1236
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:47,840
production myself. Those seconds matter. I mean they every single

1237
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,519
second matters in the course of the flow. That that

1238
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:57,760
is is an underappreciated and under rated, undernoticed thing that

1239
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,360
that newer producers I think kind of forget about. The

1240
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:05,800
flow is so important for the story. You can feel

1241
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,239
a slightly disjointed voice track edit, you know if oh, yeah,

1242
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,800
that pause there is just it's a half a second

1243
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,199
too long and it's throwing off the flow, you.

1244
01:08:15,119 --> 01:08:18,159
Speaker 1: Know, totally yeah, or it's too short, right. I Mean,

1245
01:08:18,159 --> 01:08:21,039
how many times it's like, will the actor say something.

1246
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,840
Let's just say the actor says something really profound and heartfelt,

1247
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:26,800
and the other person is like, yeah, I totally know

1248
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:28,399
how you feel. Like you're like, wow, man, you just

1249
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,319
jumped all over that guy who just poured out his heart.

1250
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:34,079
Chances are you might be a little bit more, you

1251
01:08:34,159 --> 01:08:39,000
might be taking your time more and like I'm really sorry. Right, Yeah,

1252
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:41,640
they're way too tight, so it could be like the

1253
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:43,760
way too long, and now I feel like this story

1254
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,159
doesn't make any sense. It doesn't feel natural or you're

1255
01:08:46,199 --> 01:08:48,359
totally on top of each other, and that's not how

1256
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:51,319
that conversation would go. Yeah, I mean, once you become

1257
01:08:51,359 --> 01:08:54,960
the producer of an audio drama, you really start having

1258
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,520
an appreciation for timing in a way that you didn't

1259
01:08:58,520 --> 01:08:59,720
maybe as an actor only.

1260
01:09:00,079 --> 01:09:03,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I totally get you, Todd. I get the

1261
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:04,520
angst there.

1262
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a technical nightmare for

1263
01:09:08,119 --> 01:09:10,840
Todd to accommodate me, but ultimately, for the good of

1264
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:12,680
the story, I'm glad he did.

1265
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1266
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:15,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question. What else you got?

1267
01:09:16,199 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 2: She also wanted to know what type of notes in

1268
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,680
the script from the script writer help you as you

1269
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:27,119
approach the score, help inspire what to do, And I

1270
01:09:27,119 --> 01:09:29,000
would also add she didn't ask this, but I would

1271
01:09:29,039 --> 01:09:31,520
also add how much is too much input from them?

1272
01:09:32,039 --> 01:09:36,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, some people like Adventures in Odyssey,

1273
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,920
provide very detailed notes. They're very good notes, they're very

1274
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:45,840
professional notes, exciting with minimal danger. Right, and so, because

1275
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:47,880
like you know, I'm working on something now with Nate

1276
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:50,840
and he's like, hey, that just sounds too dangerous. And

1277
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:52,800
I was like, yeah, but you didn't give me any notes, right,

1278
01:09:53,039 --> 01:09:55,720
if you just would have said exciting but not too right,

1279
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,239
because normally I was like, hey, you can give me

1280
01:09:58,319 --> 01:10:00,000
the notes. You're good at notes, give me the note.

1281
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,000
It's exciting, not too dangerous, like yeah, yeah, I got

1282
01:10:02,039 --> 01:10:05,640
it or very dangerous, right, So like notes are good

1283
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:09,439
because otherwise, like we can go do something that is

1284
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,760
totally off base of what the producer wanted. And had

1285
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,479
they just said that, I wouldn't have done all of

1286
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:18,399
this and kind of wasted my time and done, you

1287
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:20,960
know what I mean. Obviously it's too much when you're

1288
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:24,319
like enter trumpets here, you're like, okay, hey, you know,

1289
01:10:24,399 --> 01:10:26,079
like I got it. I'll figure it out, you know.

1290
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,359
But you know, I've really become a fan with Joan

1291
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:33,399
of ARC. Paul and I spotted it together. So each episode,

1292
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:35,319
every two weeks, when I was done with an episode,

1293
01:10:35,319 --> 01:10:37,119
we would jump on a zoom call for one hour

1294
01:10:37,239 --> 01:10:40,279
we spotted the script together that episode. We go line

1295
01:10:40,319 --> 01:10:41,880
by line, what do you think about this? You know

1296
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,720
what I mean? We talked about it. So the notes

1297
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:46,279
that I had on the page at the end of

1298
01:10:46,279 --> 01:10:50,199
that hour were more of us brainstorming together and arriving

1299
01:10:50,239 --> 01:10:52,920
at ideas together, because a lot of times with notes,

1300
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:56,079
that's just the producer's version of what they're hearing. But

1301
01:10:56,159 --> 01:10:58,880
the composer could say, well, that's a great idea. But

1302
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:00,560
you know what, if we thought about that, you know,

1303
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:05,359
it's more collaborative. I would encourage any producer who wants

1304
01:11:05,399 --> 01:11:08,039
to become or a director who wants to become really

1305
01:11:08,119 --> 01:11:11,960
really good, to do a live zoom session with your

1306
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:16,279
composer for notes. I think the collaborative process is way

1307
01:11:16,319 --> 01:11:19,800
better than you just throw in notes at us. That's

1308
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:20,880
just my two cents.

1309
01:11:21,159 --> 01:11:25,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like that's a necessary step

1310
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,960
with every type of project or only for these big

1311
01:11:29,039 --> 01:11:32,279
epic long features, or do you think that's something you

1312
01:11:32,319 --> 01:11:34,920
need to do with a short thirty minute episode or.

1313
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:36,600
Speaker 1: No, No, I mean, I mean it depends on that

1314
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,239
thirty minute episode, right. If it's if it's a sort

1315
01:11:39,239 --> 01:11:42,439
of like Adventures in Ossey Club episode that I get

1316
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:44,439
called for, which are like kind of mini movies and

1317
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:47,920
thirty minutes, right, these are big ideas. Those do involve

1318
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:50,680
phone calls with I do talk to them, right, I'm

1319
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,520
not just looking for your notes, because there's a lot

1320
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,960
to unpack in those thirty minutes. But no, I mean,

1321
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:00,600
I just I guess what my point is is that like,

1322
01:12:01,159 --> 01:12:05,479
the more you talk to your team members, really talk

1323
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,079
to them, not email and text them, the more of

1324
01:12:08,119 --> 01:12:11,399
a true relationship you get with them and a collaborative thing,

1325
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,760
and you will learn from them as much as they'll

1326
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:16,720
learn from you. And so by bouncing ideas off of

1327
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:20,279
each other. Because even in Slice of Life, it's still like, hey,

1328
01:12:20,319 --> 01:12:22,199
I don't think we need to come in here, or

1329
01:12:22,239 --> 01:12:23,960
I think we should come in here sooner. I think

1330
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:28,279
that this little sentence is the driver for this little scene.

1331
01:12:28,319 --> 01:12:31,199
Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, I'm just I don't know.

1332
01:12:31,239 --> 01:12:33,319
I just I think if you can find the time

1333
01:12:33,359 --> 01:12:35,960
to do it, talk to your composer before you just

1334
01:12:36,119 --> 01:12:37,319
start chucking out notes.

1335
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 2: That's one of the things that I've always liked about

1336
01:12:40,119 --> 01:12:43,880
audio drama production is the collaborative process of getting to

1337
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,399
work with other people. And when it's really siloed, I mean,

1338
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:50,000
it can work, you can put out some content, but

1339
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:52,399
I think you're going to be much better off when

1340
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:54,039
when people are talking to each.

1341
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:57,239
Speaker 1: Other totally totally. I mean, you know when I did Adventum,

1342
01:12:57,239 --> 01:12:59,680
that one time I did Adventum, I was totally siloed.

1343
01:13:00,039 --> 01:13:01,960
Gave me notes, no one gave me anything, no one

1344
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:05,439
talked to me, and it was a lonely job. Man,

1345
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,119
when you are just like left going, I don't know

1346
01:13:08,159 --> 01:13:09,800
what to I mean, I guess I'll do this. The

1347
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:11,960
one's telling me what to do, I guess I'll do this.

1348
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:15,079
And so I just think it's it's good for you

1349
01:13:15,199 --> 01:13:17,920
to talk to people in the collaborative process. I think

1350
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,760
you will become better by listening to other people's opinions

1351
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,479
on things, especially when they're talented people that you're working with.

1352
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:30,079
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Austin Peachey asked in general, what is the

1353
01:13:30,079 --> 01:13:32,359
most difficult emotion to underscore?

1354
01:13:33,399 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 1: I think true sadness is really hard because there's so

1355
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,520
much you can do that's so cliche. You know that

1356
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:46,520
it's like it's been done so many times that they're

1357
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,680
they're all like sadness is now a caricature of itself

1358
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:53,960
where it just doesn't feel genuine, it feels forced. Yeah,

1359
01:13:54,319 --> 01:13:58,039
you know, I struggle with that a lot, Like it's like, ah,

1360
01:13:58,079 --> 01:14:00,880
that's too over the top. That's too it's too obvious,

1361
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,840
you know, Oh, you're trying too hard to make them

1362
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:07,159
feel sad. The actor is doing a good job. And

1363
01:14:07,239 --> 01:14:10,880
so those are the scenes that I probably really agonize

1364
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,159
over the most. You know, some composers I think it

1365
01:14:14,319 --> 01:14:16,479
just nail them right away and move on. But for me,

1366
01:14:17,159 --> 01:14:20,039
I just like because I think understated is good, right.

1367
01:14:20,359 --> 01:14:22,960
I think that's the hardest thing for composers to be,

1368
01:14:23,119 --> 01:14:26,000
is understated when they need to be, and sometimes that

1369
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:28,880
might be the most emotionally effective thing you can do.

1370
01:14:29,319 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 2: I think that that's another thing that younger or newer

1371
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,800
composers do struggle with, is they feel like, well, I'm

1372
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:37,920
the composer, I'm writing the music. The music needs to

1373
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,000
be there, but you've got to know when to let

1374
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,920
it step back and let the other things shine. And

1375
01:14:44,159 --> 01:14:47,760
actually Austin asking in a related question, how do you

1376
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,520
know when to add music and when to just let

1377
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,039
the dialogue and the sound effects just tell the story.

1378
01:14:54,119 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 1: I think the more of a student you are in composing.

1379
01:14:57,279 --> 01:14:59,960
And when I say that is like you're always listen,

1380
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,800
listening to the people that are better than you, right,

1381
01:15:03,399 --> 01:15:07,159
And so you know, when I watch them movies translate

1382
01:15:07,199 --> 01:15:11,319
into audio drama in terms of dialogue beat points, and

1383
01:15:11,399 --> 01:15:16,600
so I'm always listening to where does the character say

1384
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:21,199
something that is the start of the germination of whatever

1385
01:15:21,319 --> 01:15:25,159
will take place, And a lot of people miss it

1386
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:29,239
in their que calls of like, no, it's not when

1387
01:15:29,279 --> 01:15:32,760
we say, you know, okay, let's go, we're off. Well

1388
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:36,720
that's no, that's a hit point. But the conversation started

1389
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:42,279
actually six lines ago when someone said this, right, But

1390
01:15:42,359 --> 01:15:44,880
you're always looking for like, okay, that's the start of

1391
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:49,319
the idea, and it builds along the way with the

1392
01:15:49,359 --> 01:15:50,479
lines of dialogue.

1393
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:53,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's not just foreshadowing in the dialogue, it's

1394
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:55,079
foreshadowing in the score as well.

1395
01:15:55,600 --> 01:16:01,039
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean I encourage anybody if you really

1396
01:16:01,159 --> 01:16:03,439
like something, if there is a movie you like, or

1397
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:06,199
an audio drama you like, or whatever, a book you like,

1398
01:16:07,039 --> 01:16:11,399
tear it apart and understand why you like it, right, Like,

1399
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,079
I am notorious for that because there's a lot of

1400
01:16:14,079 --> 01:16:15,920
people that are be just like, well, I just like it.

1401
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:17,960
I just like the experience of it. I like, you know,

1402
01:16:18,159 --> 01:16:19,840
you're like, okay, that's great, But if you want to

1403
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:21,680
get really good at your craft, you need to know

1404
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:27,399
exactly why you like it from a purely technical standpoint,

1405
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:30,479
you know what I mean. Yeah, and it will actually

1406
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:33,760
deepen your appreciation of why that thing is a piece

1407
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,439
of art, you know. And so I do that with

1408
01:16:37,239 --> 01:16:40,159
movies and with orchestra scores, like I tear them apart

1409
01:16:40,239 --> 01:16:42,880
to understand why I like it, why it works.

1410
01:16:44,039 --> 01:16:47,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've I've always been an appreciator of stories.

1411
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:49,680
I've been a voracious reader since I was just a

1412
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,640
little kid. But it's only only been in the last

1413
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,279
handful of years that I've really started trying to do that,

1414
01:16:55,319 --> 01:16:58,199
and not even really consciously doing it. It's just as

1415
01:16:58,199 --> 01:17:01,520
I've become more involved in storytelling myself, then I start

1416
01:17:02,279 --> 01:17:05,560
looking at at stories that I consume and think, oh,

1417
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:07,560
I see what they did there, and I like that,

1418
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:09,960
and I can use that sort of pattern myself.

1419
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:13,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, for sure. I just watched I had

1420
01:17:13,319 --> 01:17:15,239
a day off where I was waiting on a job

1421
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:18,439
and I decided to watch a movie I've always wanted

1422
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:20,439
to watch for a long time because I had heard

1423
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:22,640
it was a great movie. I watched it. It was

1424
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:24,640
The Arrival. It was like a science fiction movie with

1425
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,800
Amy Adams, and I was floored by it. And you

1426
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,640
know what I did. I watched it again. And then

1427
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,000
you know what I did the next day, I watched

1428
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:36,800
it again because because it was sort of like, here

1429
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:40,359
was something that really affected me on a deep emotional level.

1430
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,039
And then I was like, I need to know why

1431
01:17:43,079 --> 01:17:46,199
it did. And I watched it and I was like, okay,

1432
01:17:46,239 --> 01:17:48,159
I got it. And then I listened to the score

1433
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:52,119
probably ten times just by itself, right, so that I

1434
01:17:52,199 --> 01:17:54,880
knew the score by heart. And then I'm like, Okay,

1435
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:57,079
now I'm going to go in deep under the hood

1436
01:17:57,119 --> 01:17:59,880
with this guy and understand everything he did and where

1437
01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:02,000
it hitting. And I did, you know what I mean.

1438
01:18:02,279 --> 01:18:05,840
So what became a sort of like very enjoyable moment

1439
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:10,239
of me just consuming media became a huge education for me.

1440
01:18:10,359 --> 01:18:13,840
And I would encourage anybody with audio dramas. If you

1441
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:16,840
find an audio drama you love, tear it apart, go

1442
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:18,920
under the hood and understand why you like it.

1443
01:18:19,079 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that. So we've talked a little

1444
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,960
bit about composers who are newer to the craft or whatever,

1445
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:29,199
But what would you say to somebody who's just getting started,

1446
01:18:29,239 --> 01:18:32,199
What are the most important skills or the basics to

1447
01:18:32,319 --> 01:18:35,039
focus on at the start. This is a question from

1448
01:18:35,279 --> 01:18:38,880
Mark Mukahey and the side note, I'm sure listeners are

1449
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:41,920
familiar with his name. He's the one who wrote the

1450
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,479
music for season one of Greenhorn Tales, and he's done

1451
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,560
lots of other projects. He's also a sound designer. I

1452
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:50,840
don't know why he's asking a question about just getting started,

1453
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:53,039
because he's done some great work already himself. He's not

1454
01:18:53,079 --> 01:18:57,479
getting started, no, But I love that he's always looking

1455
01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:58,640
to improve and learn more.

1456
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:01,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, compose in media have a challenge

1457
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:04,600
because they they're always they need to be improving two

1458
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:06,920
things at the same time. They need to be improving

1459
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:10,640
themselves as a composer, a technical composer, right, getting good

1460
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:14,159
at your craft with musical language and musical skills. But

1461
01:19:14,199 --> 01:19:16,319
then you need to become a good storyteller at the

1462
01:19:16,359 --> 01:19:19,840
same time, so you're always balancing. It's kind of funny

1463
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:23,640
because like I actually would prefer a lesser composer with

1464
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:29,880
great storytelling intuitions over this really great technical composer with

1465
01:19:30,039 --> 01:19:34,159
no intuition to storytelling. Does that make sense? But you

1466
01:19:34,239 --> 01:19:36,640
need both if you're going to have a long lasting career,

1467
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:38,640
you have to have both, you can't just be one

1468
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:43,880
or the other. And so understanding why music works in

1469
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:47,720
an audio drama. It's so important of like again, like

1470
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:51,960
we talked about timing of like, of pace, of tempo,

1471
01:19:52,199 --> 01:19:56,880
of like really just understanding why is the music working

1472
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:00,399
year or why is it not? That is the so

1473
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,359
important in audio drama. Since you don't have the visual,

1474
01:20:03,399 --> 01:20:06,640
the music is going to be that much more important.

1475
01:20:07,119 --> 01:20:10,640
And if it's wrong, if it's wrong, quote unquote, it's

1476
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:12,000
going to just throw off everything.

1477
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it may not be a bad piece of music,

1478
01:20:15,319 --> 01:20:16,720
but it's wrong for this situation.

1479
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:19,279
Speaker 1: Totally might be the greatest piece of music ever written

1480
01:20:19,319 --> 01:20:21,800
on the planet, but it is totally wrong for the moment. Right.

1481
01:20:22,399 --> 01:20:24,960
It's too fast, it's too dense. Why are you having

1482
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,640
the French horns play that you're over You're killing the vocal.

1483
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:29,760
I mean but it was a great piece of music.

1484
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:32,640
But sorry, dude rejected, you know what I mean?

1485
01:20:34,199 --> 01:20:37,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like Todd Todd Bustid is so fond of

1486
01:20:37,039 --> 01:20:38,279
saying we work for the story.

1487
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:40,119
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1488
01:20:40,159 --> 01:20:43,319
Speaker 2: Well. Mark also asked what are your desert island software

1489
01:20:43,359 --> 01:20:45,479
tools or libraries that you can't live without?

1490
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:51,640
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I've used a program digital performer. I

1491
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:55,039
write on that it's an older program, but I'm so

1492
01:20:55,159 --> 01:20:57,439
good at it. I started it in college when it

1493
01:20:57,479 --> 01:20:59,840
was just poor performer. So nineteen eighty nine is when

1494
01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:02,760
I started on this software, right, and so I am

1495
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,680
super fast on it, and that would be what I

1496
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:09,039
couldn't live without, sad to say. But with libraries, man,

1497
01:21:09,079 --> 01:21:12,279
I'm always changing, Like I am always looking for new

1498
01:21:12,359 --> 01:21:15,720
sounds to inspire me. I had this a film composer

1499
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:18,199
in from La that moved here. Now I've become really

1500
01:21:18,239 --> 01:21:21,359
good friends with and we are always talking shop. And

1501
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:23,479
I had this joke, I'm like, I feel like I've

1502
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:26,680
been having the same musicians on my score for like

1503
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:28,960
the last eight years. I feel like we're all It's

1504
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:31,399
like I'm looking for new people in new rooms, you

1505
01:21:31,399 --> 01:21:34,119
know what I mean. And so I'm always looking for

1506
01:21:34,159 --> 01:21:38,239
new libraries to inspire me. So I don't really have, honestly,

1507
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:42,399
like a ton of desert island stuff. Technology is something

1508
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,840
that I'm always looking to how do I improve upon,

1509
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:47,880
how do I make it sound better. I don't have

1510
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:50,800
a lot of loyalty, Like I'm always like, sure I

1511
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:53,199
use that, But now I'm I've found something better, I'm

1512
01:21:53,199 --> 01:21:57,279
moving on. You know, my desert Island stuff, honestly are

1513
01:21:57,319 --> 01:22:00,520
the scores I own, and I would tell Mark that

1514
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:02,439
my desert If you want to know what my desert

1515
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:05,039
Island is, I'm looking at it right now. It's Holds

1516
01:22:05,039 --> 01:22:09,159
the Planets score Daphnis and Chloe. It is Igor Stravinsky's

1517
01:22:09,199 --> 01:22:12,119
Write a Spring the theme. But Thomas tallis like, I'm

1518
01:22:12,159 --> 01:22:14,439
just saying, that's desert island. To me, that's the stuff

1519
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:17,000
I couldn't live without. The real music on paper.

1520
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:21,319
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And just to clarify for the listener, And

1521
01:22:21,359 --> 01:22:25,000
in case you're not familiar by libraries, we're talking about

1522
01:22:25,039 --> 01:22:27,199
collections of instruments, samples, ye yeah.

1523
01:22:27,079 --> 01:22:29,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1524
01:22:29,199 --> 01:22:35,399
Speaker 2: Well, these kinds of conversations I find so invigorating and inspiring,

1525
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:39,760
just digging into people's process and it's just so enjoyable

1526
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,239
for me. And I'm so thankful that I have this

1527
01:22:42,399 --> 01:22:44,239
show as an outlet for me to do this, because

1528
01:22:44,239 --> 01:22:45,520
if I was going to sit down with you for

1529
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:48,000
an hour, i'd probably have to pay you to get

1530
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:52,119
some coaching here. But I get to have these wonderful

1531
01:22:52,119 --> 01:22:55,000
conversations and share it with the community, So I'm so

1532
01:22:55,119 --> 01:22:57,840
thankful for that. But before we head out the door,

1533
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:02,159
I do want to ask you, regardless of content and

1534
01:23:02,359 --> 01:23:05,239
whatever medium, whether it's a film or an audio drama,

1535
01:23:06,039 --> 01:23:09,079
what is a score out there, a soundtrack for a

1536
01:23:09,119 --> 01:23:12,920
project that you absolutely love and you think is just

1537
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:15,159
an absolutely beautiful piece of music that people should hear?

1538
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:19,279
Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, I mean I have always said, and I've

1539
01:23:19,279 --> 01:23:22,239
never been shy. I'm looking at my library of music. There.

1540
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:24,840
Howard Shore's score to the Lord of the Rings is

1541
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:27,840
everything that music should be. Is that everything that great

1542
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:34,479
music should be. What he did is amazing, beauty, agony, danger, violence, adventure.

1543
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:38,479
He did it all and everything he did with such excellence.

1544
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,600
I marveled. My son just saw. We watched Lord of

1545
01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:43,880
the Rings for the first time. He's twelve almost. He

1546
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:45,960
wanted to watch and he's read the books, so I

1547
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:48,199
watched it again. You know, twenty years later, however long

1548
01:23:48,239 --> 01:23:50,319
it's been, and I'm still bawling like a baby when

1549
01:23:50,319 --> 01:23:54,399
I hear his music. I think everybody should listen to that.

1550
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:57,640
I will say, there's a score that I really think

1551
01:23:57,680 --> 01:23:59,640
that if you are into music, or if you're into

1552
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:03,479
good store telling. The score that James Newton Howard wrote

1553
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:06,119
for a movie called Signs. It's like a UFO movie

1554
01:24:06,119 --> 01:24:10,359
in the cornfields. James Newton. Howard's execution of a theme

1555
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:15,199
from start to finish is an absolute masterclass in film scoring.

1556
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:18,760
It is a score I have ripped apart ad nauseum.

1557
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:21,359
I think it's one of the greatest film scores ever written.

1558
01:24:22,239 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 2: And isn't that amazing? And I think all of your

1559
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:28,000
work does this as well. When the score can stand

1560
01:24:28,039 --> 01:24:31,479
on its own and be enjoyed without the context of

1561
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:32,359
the story.

1562
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:34,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you're kind of lucky. I always say

1563
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:37,439
that you're that's a lucky bonus, right, because we don't

1564
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:39,880
write scores to be like, well, I really think people

1565
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:42,239
are going to enjoy track one to track two. We're

1566
01:24:42,239 --> 01:24:44,880
not thinking that at all. But it's like when you

1567
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:46,680
actually after it's done and you're like, I'm going to

1568
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:50,279
assemble a score for release, You're like, hey, this thing

1569
01:24:50,319 --> 01:24:53,399
actually is pretty listenable. Yeah, phew, that's amazing, you know

1570
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:57,000
what I mean. But yes, but those good scores have

1571
01:24:57,159 --> 01:24:58,840
I mean, look, Lord of the Rings. I would only

1572
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:02,920
imagine people listen of that daily for just inspiration, you

1573
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:05,399
know what I mean. And that's that's great. He didn't

1574
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:07,960
intend that, but that was a sure bonus that he

1575
01:25:08,039 --> 01:25:09,159
got with that music.

1576
01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:13,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm one who has on many occasion just

1577
01:25:13,319 --> 01:25:15,720
turned on that soundtrack as I'm going to sleep at night.

1578
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:18,880
Speaker 1: Yeah totally yeah, yeah, and so like the orcs arrive

1579
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:20,920
and then you're woken up by the clatter of five

1580
01:25:21,039 --> 01:25:24,199
flour and the banging pianos or whatever. But yeah, you're like,

1581
01:25:24,239 --> 01:25:25,399
I was sleeping so good.

1582
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:29,720
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, by that time, I'm already drifted way off.

1583
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:32,279
Speaker 1: So maybe you're deep, you're in the rem sleep, you're

1584
01:25:32,359 --> 01:25:33,359
so you are gonna get it.

1585
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:39,079
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure you've got some fun, interesting projects in

1586
01:25:39,119 --> 01:25:41,239
this year of twenty twenty five that that I don't

1587
01:25:41,239 --> 01:25:42,600
know if you can even talk about them. But is

1588
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,479
there anything that you're looking forward to the most? And

1589
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:48,600
I guess actually, Mike, I wanted to know what project

1590
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,079
you're most excited about scoring in twenty twenty five and

1591
01:25:51,119 --> 01:25:54,319
why is your answer Jake Muller Adventures Undead and Reckoning

1592
01:25:54,359 --> 01:25:54,880
of Cowards.

1593
01:25:55,319 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 1: I totally knew E would say that I am looking

1594
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:01,399
forward to that. I mean that next Jake Mueller. It's

1595
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:03,399
going to take place I think in New Orleans. It's

1596
01:26:03,399 --> 01:26:05,600
gonna take like kind of in the Bayou or like

1597
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:08,159
that area. I don't have a script, right, I haven't

1598
01:26:08,159 --> 01:26:11,119
heard it, but like, Jake's going to a whole new

1599
01:26:11,159 --> 01:26:14,079
part of the country where we've left Chicago, and I

1600
01:26:14,199 --> 01:26:17,079
know it's gonna give me an opportunity to do something

1601
01:26:17,119 --> 01:26:20,159
that I've never done before. And I'm really excited to see,

1602
01:26:20,199 --> 01:26:24,159
like how I can bring that swampiness of Louisiana into

1603
01:26:25,039 --> 01:26:28,079
Jake's world. So I'm totally yeah. I mean I because

1604
01:26:28,119 --> 01:26:31,359
that's really that's on the books, but yeah, definitely from Mike.

1605
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:33,079
I'm totally looking forward to that job.

1606
01:26:35,119 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 2: Well, uh, you know, I issued this challenge and I'm

1607
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:40,039
still still waiting around for it. But I told you

1608
01:26:40,119 --> 01:26:42,199
years ago I'm still waiting for you to work a

1609
01:26:42,239 --> 01:26:44,840
theremin into a score. So I'm going to challenge you

1610
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:45,399
again for that.

1611
01:26:46,359 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 1: I know that theorem men. I remember even looking to

1612
01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:53,079
buy one because they make like newer theorem mens. Now

1613
01:26:53,119 --> 01:26:54,960
they do make them. I think we had talked about.

1614
01:26:55,079 --> 01:26:57,920
I know it'll have to come at some point. It'll

1615
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:01,760
you're gonna die laughing when it finally guys, that's sure.

1616
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't give me any heads up. I'm gonna have

1617
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:04,439
to spot it.

1618
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally man.

1619
01:27:06,159 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 2: No, but but you know, we've alluded to this throughout

1620
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,159
this conversation. But it has to be right for the story.

1621
01:27:11,159 --> 01:27:12,520
It has to be right for the moment. You can't

1622
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:15,279
force something like that. I totally understand it. But I

1623
01:27:15,319 --> 01:27:16,319
think you would be amazing.

1624
01:27:17,399 --> 01:27:20,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yes, that would be fun. I hope it

1625
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:21,399
happens one day.

1626
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:25,119
Speaker 2: Maybe it will, well, Jared, this has been an absolute

1627
01:27:25,199 --> 01:27:27,600
joy to chat with you. Thank you so much, and

1628
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:30,560
I'm looking forward to the future projects. Links are in

1629
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:32,720
the show notes to Jared's website check out what he's

1630
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:35,159
been working on. He's got some samples there. Of course,

1631
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:38,479
several of the radio theater scores I've been released now

1632
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:40,640
you can get those. Anything else you want to.

1633
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:42,560
Speaker 1: Plug No, man, I think that you do a good

1634
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:43,319
job plugging me.

1635
01:27:43,399 --> 01:27:46,279
Speaker 2: So thanks well, you bet. Thank you so much for

1636
01:27:46,319 --> 01:27:47,000
coming on the show.

1637
01:27:47,279 --> 01:27:49,239
Speaker 1: Absolute JD thank you man. That was awesome.

1638
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:49,399
Speaker 2: Well huge. Thank you again to Jared for coming on

1639
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:51,319
the show. It's always a pleasure to talk to him.

1640
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:54,920
He's so talented. I love hearing the behind the scenes

1641
01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:59,439
of how these projects come together, on the music side,

1642
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:01,720
on the post production side, on the writing side. I

1643
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:03,640
just find it so interesting and I hope you enjoyed

1644
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,159
this conversation as well. I know that several of you

1645
01:29:06,199 --> 01:29:08,520
have been asking about when we're going to have John

1646
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:12,119
Campbell come back to finish that conversation that we started

1647
01:29:12,279 --> 01:29:15,920
quite some time ago, and hopefully that will be soon

1648
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:20,119
as well. These two names here are the biggest ones

1649
01:29:20,199 --> 01:29:22,920
in family friendly audio drama in terms of composing and

1650
01:29:23,199 --> 01:29:26,359
it's such a pleasure and an honor for them to

1651
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:28,600
take time out of their schedules to come on the show.

1652
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:32,439
So I'm looking forward to bringing John back. And huge

1653
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:38,439
thanks to Jared for his time in this episode. Well

1654
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:40,920
that's all I've got for you this time. Happy New Year.

1655
01:29:41,319 --> 01:29:45,880
Thank you so much for your continued support and listenership

1656
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:49,279
of Audio Theater Central. Be sure to join the ATC Insiders,

1657
01:29:49,279 --> 01:29:51,640
which is our email newsletter. We'll email you about the

1658
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:53,880
stuff that we're up to in between episodes if we

1659
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:56,680
have some announcements to make. It's very infrequent. We're not

1660
01:29:56,720 --> 01:29:59,399
going to blow up your email inbox, so don't worry

1661
01:29:59,399 --> 01:30:01,079
about that. But if you would like to get in

1662
01:30:01,079 --> 01:30:04,920
touch with us, Audio Theatercentral dot com slash contact has

1663
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:06,960
all the ways to do that, and of course the

1664
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:10,680
show notes for this episode Audio Theatercentral dot com slash

1665
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:13,640
two o eight. It'll have the links to everything we've

1666
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,600
talked about, links to Jared's work, everything that you'll need

1667
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:19,000
to find out about what's coming in twenty twenty five,

1668
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:22,600
all of that good stuff I'll see in the next episode.

1669
01:30:23,279 --> 01:30:32,279
Thank you so much for listening. Audio Theater Central is

1670
01:30:32,279 --> 01:30:35,520
a production of Portlite Family Media. Our theme music was

1671
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:39,000
composed by Sam Avandanio. The show is produced and edited

1672
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:42,319
by Yours truly JD. Sutter, and our website is audio

1673
01:30:42,319 --> 01:30:54,399
Theatercentral dot com. Hey, if you're still listening, I want

1674
01:30:54,399 --> 01:30:56,560
to ask you to do a favor for me. Go

1675
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:58,840
over to my website, which is linked in the show notes,

1676
01:30:59,159 --> 01:31:03,520
or go to j me slash Aspencreek and check out

1677
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:05,960
those episodes of the micro audio drama series that I'm

1678
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:09,279
working on. If you haven't already, and if you have still,

1679
01:31:09,319 --> 01:31:11,680
go over there and get that link and share it

1680
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:14,119
with your friends and family so they'll come check out

1681
01:31:14,119 --> 01:31:17,640
the show. I'm hearing from people that they're really enjoying

1682
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:21,960
this slower paced slice of life sort of storytelling. So

1683
01:31:22,039 --> 01:31:24,199
if that's something that you think you will enjoy, go

1684
01:31:24,279 --> 01:31:26,359
check it out and sign up to get the email

1685
01:31:26,399 --> 01:31:29,920
notifications so you don't miss new episodes. Thank you very.

1686
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:37,600
Speaker 1: Much, Sportlight Familymedia your source for family centered content Scorglightfamilymedia

1687
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:40,479
dot com