Speaker 1: Hello everyone, Leslie here. So for this special commentary episode,
Speaker 1: we are watching the film Man Hunter, the Director's Cut,
Speaker 1: which clocks in at two hours and four minutes. This
Speaker 1: one may be a little bit harder to track down,
Speaker 1: but trust me, it is worth it for the some
Speaker 1: of the additional footage. But if you can't track it down,
Speaker 1: don't worry about too much because it's only about four
Speaker 1: minutes longer and you can get in sync pretty easily.
Speaker 1: All right, So we're gonna start the film on go
Speaker 1: three two one go.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm playing perfect, do you know? Dealer?
Speaker 2: Wow, that's the mark of quality. That really is the
Speaker 2: mark of quality.
Speaker 1: You can just tell by the font.
Speaker 3: Is a good truly?
Speaker 2: Actually, to be honest with you, they should add a
Speaker 2: little wiggle vision to fonts and movies.
Speaker 1: Well, hello everyone, welcome to Struggle Session.
Speaker 2: I'm Leslie the IID, I'm Jack Allison.
Speaker 1: I'm Shannon Strucci and today we are doing a very
Speaker 1: special commentary episode of one of my favorite films with
Speaker 1: one of my favorite people and favorite guests, Will Millinker
Speaker 1: of Chapol chap Rosse. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4: Seeing is the primary way through which my fantasy is
Speaker 4: made real. You like watching movies, don't you cheat? Sport,
Speaker 4: You've seen this movie before, Sport.
Speaker 3: A joy to be here with you. Watch I'm ready
Speaker 3: to hunt some Men.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh great, already this like the like super fucking
Speaker 2: creepy like snuff footage that this opens with. Already so good.
Speaker 3: So terrifying.
Speaker 1: I am a huge, huge fan of this movie, which
Speaker 1: I'm ashamed to say I didn't watch until many, many
Speaker 1: years later because people we all we talk about like,
Speaker 1: oh this is they did a hambal lecter one in
Speaker 1: the eighties, and like it wasn't that good. It was
Speaker 1: nearly it was.
Speaker 2: People are unkind to this because of some Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: pretty hard.
Speaker 4: For this movie to get out underneath the shadow of
Speaker 4: the limbs. And like I don't even know, Like I
Speaker 4: couldn't even say which one is better. I mean, I
Speaker 4: think they're both unalloyed masterpieces.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're so different.
Speaker 4: Oh, this opening shot here of Crawford wonderful on the beach.
Speaker 1: Here, this is the eighties right here, the pure eighties.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, some amazing Bill Peterson shorts.
Speaker 2: Here's the two types of eighties men, sleaveless beach man
Speaker 2: and a business fella both with perms.
Speaker 1: Oh wonderful, wonderful. So, uh, what's your history? Well, all
Speaker 1: y'all's history of the film. I just only watched a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, fell in love with it, have
Speaker 1: watched it maybe four or five times since, Like it's
Speaker 1: the one that I can do over and over again.
Speaker 2: Mine is also similar to yours. I watched it earlier
Speaker 2: than a couple of years ago, Like I think I
Speaker 2: did end up watching it maybe in my early twenties
Speaker 2: or something like that. But I also had been fed
Speaker 2: the line that like, oh, this is like the lesser
Speaker 2: prequel or whatever, it's not as good, and you know,
Speaker 2: I I I it's they're they're both just very good movies.
Speaker 2: If anything, everyone should be like, wow, the Hannibal Lecter
Speaker 2: story can like take on so many forms, so impressive,
Speaker 2: and like they're all good. But yeah, I watched it
Speaker 2: a little later than Silence of the Lambs, and uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's it's it's a it's one of the
Speaker 2: Man classics. I've watched it a number of times since then.
Speaker 5: I had a friend who like obsessively loved this movie
Speaker 5: and got me to watch it, and I watched it
Speaker 5: with some other friends who are like big film people.
Speaker 5: So that was really fun, just like one of those
Speaker 5: fun hangout like movie experiences. And I liked it a lot.
Speaker 5: It's kind of hard coming off of Silence of the
Speaker 5: Lambs and Hannibal because you get two very different, like
Speaker 5: preconceived notions of the Harris Cannon or whatever. But like
Speaker 5: y'all were saying, it's just really cool that different people
Speaker 5: can interpret the same story in different ways. And I
Speaker 5: liked it a lot. I think I'm gonna enjoy rewatching it.
Speaker 4: It's like, you know, like like Michael Mann in this
Speaker 4: and then Jonathan Deming and Son s Lambs is just
Speaker 4: like the color palettes of these two movies cannot be
Speaker 4: more radically different, you know. And Son Salams is so
Speaker 4: sort of like brown and dark green and gray, and
Speaker 4: this is just that Michael Man like dreamy hyper realism
Speaker 4: of like Neon and like Nighttime and just like yeah,
Speaker 4: like this cool, very cool sort of like uh like
Speaker 4: Neon color palette, like a.
Speaker 1: Cool intensity, yeah, white heat.
Speaker 4: So like you know, starting right away at least just
Speaker 4: like in because like you know, this is this is
Speaker 4: the the origin story, Like this is this is the
Speaker 4: first Thomas Sarah's novel.
Speaker 3: This is like the introduction.
Speaker 4: Of this whole universe, you know, Jack Crawford and hitt
Speaker 4: Able Electer and all this ship and as you see
Speaker 4: in you know, Hannibal the TV show and in this
Speaker 4: right off the bat, Jack Crawford such a fucking asshole,
Speaker 4: like just such a jerk, like interrupting this guy's like
Speaker 4: nice life after he's been traumatized and just slides those
Speaker 4: photos over to him knowing what it'll do.
Speaker 2: Oh man.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I think makes the Hannibal
Speaker 1: Elector series work so much is the fact that it
Speaker 1: portrays the FBI is mostly like clueless assholes for the
Speaker 1: most part. More more or less, I think the film
Speaker 1: Silence of the Lambs kind of made you know, Clarice smarter,
Speaker 1: more noble, Jack Crawford more noble. But on the whole,
Speaker 1: like this series kind of endures where a lot of
Speaker 1: the like pass and ship.
Speaker 7: Look at that Oh my god, beautiful wow.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 4: Now, Leslie, I mean I was thinking about it because
Speaker 4: I was just speaking to you a little earlier, like,
Speaker 4: you know, I just rewatched all of all Hannibal, like
Speaker 4: that was the second time, going away all the way.
Speaker 3: Through it nice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, I'd seen it before, but like
Speaker 4: the thing that struck me more than anything rewatching Hannibal
Speaker 4: the TV series and then you can see glimpses of
Speaker 4: it and.
Speaker 3: This as well. I was like, what what does Jack
Speaker 3: Crawford actually do?
Speaker 4: Like what does he bring to the table for like
Speaker 4: any murder investigations?
Speaker 6: Like yeah, like.
Speaker 4: He just like he just makes will disassociate and he's
Speaker 4: just like if he was on his own, he'd be
Speaker 4: like I don't I don't know, like did anyone use
Speaker 4: a credit card?
Speaker 3: Or can we frame some fucking poor teenager for this?
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Like I did not know you could get this color
Speaker 1: on screen until I saw this field.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like pre traffic, like all the digital
Speaker 2: retouching too, so he was like able to get it
Speaker 2: all blue like in camera.
Speaker 4: I mean it must be some kind of trick, Like
Speaker 4: I don't know, he's just waiting for the perfect hour
Speaker 4: like minute.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there are different color processes in film too. It
Speaker 5: was probably some kind of horrible combination of like fifteen
Speaker 5: different things they had to get precisely right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it looks it looks so like.
Speaker 4: Also very important diversience here between the Michael Mann version
Speaker 4: and the Brian Fuller version. Is it like, you know,
Speaker 4: Will Graham FUCKX, Like like he's a normal, like man's man.
Speaker 4: He's a little bit traumatized or whatever, but you know,
Speaker 4: like he's he's just he's he's more of a regular
Speaker 4: FBI guy rather than the Hu Dancy version of Will Graham,
Speaker 4: who's like, you know, neuroatypical like that.
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, it feels like oh and also gay.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, but besides that, Yeah, but yeah, this is
Speaker 1: kind of a I really like William Peterson as Will Graham.
Speaker 1: I think he does a really good interesting job as
Speaker 1: like a leading a semi kind of eight typical leading
Speaker 1: man in this movie. I think he really brings a
Speaker 1: lot to the character. And just comparing this to what
Speaker 1: he does on CSI is just really funny because that's
Speaker 1: the like one of the most boring characters.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like you know what this movie portrays is
Speaker 4: like I think Michael Man did this right after Thief,
Speaker 4: which I think was his first like feature film after
Speaker 4: being like a like a showrunner for many years famously
Speaker 4: with Miamivice. But like like Michael Mann movies like pretty
Speaker 4: much all of them. But 'ess just like this movie
Speaker 4: Thief Heat The Insider, Like what Michael Man does is
Speaker 4: he does movies about men at work. Like that's really
Speaker 4: what he's interested in, is like men doing a job
Speaker 4: and like everything else is secondary to that.
Speaker 3: And it's both whether you're a cop or a criminal.
Speaker 4: It's just like he really wants like the details of
Speaker 4: like how men work, how they focus on it, and
Speaker 4: like just like doing the job is this kind of
Speaker 4: existential paradigm for a man in the modern world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all. It's all doing a man, a man
Speaker 2: doing a job in a kind of VHS aesthetic with
Speaker 2: you know, heavy synth, like with heavy and this is
Speaker 2: not this is a very this is a very U
Speaker 2: film aesthetic. But there's something very like I always like
Speaker 2: how there's something like very sort of like documentary or
Speaker 2: like very flat about Michael Mann's look.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, and.
Speaker 4: He wants to show you like it's not just about
Speaker 4: like like a like a man doing their job and
Speaker 4: going through the motions. It's about the struggle to do
Speaker 4: the job right, to do to do a job good,
Speaker 4: which I think is like sort of like almost a
Speaker 4: meta commentary on being a director or like trying to
Speaker 4: make movies in Hollywood or as part of like a
Speaker 4: TV studio.
Speaker 3: Or anything like that.
Speaker 4: It's about the struggle and the toll it takes on
Speaker 4: you too to do something. Just do it like as
Speaker 4: best as it can can possibly be done, like a
Speaker 4: like this perfectionist element.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think maybe, I mean look you look at
Speaker 1: you know heat. Yeah. Heat.
Speaker 2: Heat is like the Avengers of men doing a job. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like an examination one man doing a job. Heat
Speaker 2: is like eight men all doing the job like the
Speaker 2: best they can do, like jobbing against each other.
Speaker 7: It's so good.
Speaker 4: No, but but but also like with heat, with this,
Speaker 4: with deep, it's it's also all about like you can
Speaker 4: be the best, the best possible person for the job
Speaker 4: and obsessed with every detail and not overlook anything. But
Speaker 4: there's always going to be something that goes wrong, always
Speaker 4: going to be something like you can.
Speaker 3: Never ever ever actually achieve perfection.
Speaker 4: Okay, so this version of Will Graham does not have
Speaker 4: like the xerox wipe effects.
Speaker 1: So will you you has some really interesting thoughts you
Speaker 1: share with me about Hannibal. Why did you break down?
Speaker 1: What did you think on the whole of the series.
Speaker 4: Of the TV series. I mean, like I said, it's
Speaker 4: just uh. I was talking to Jack a little bit
Speaker 4: about it for you got on here. It's like the
Speaker 4: astounishing thing to me about Hannibal is that a it
Speaker 4: on network TV during prime time, which is like a
Speaker 4: considering how like absolutely grotesque.
Speaker 7: It was, yeah, disgusting, But.
Speaker 4: Like what I what I loved about the show is
Speaker 4: that over the course of its three seasons, like it
Speaker 4: transforms itself into two or three different shows like as
Speaker 4: it goes along.
Speaker 3: So by the time of like the beginning.
Speaker 4: Of like the first half of the third season is
Speaker 4: like something unlike something that's ever been on television. It
Speaker 4: is just this purely fantasmagorical like cycle, like like.
Speaker 3: Just trippy, bizarre love story between two men.
Speaker 2: We were talking about this right before the show. You know,
Speaker 2: is there anyone else who can create like actually good
Speaker 2: artistic network television like Brian Fuller like may be the
Speaker 2: only like you know, there's there's good network television. Don't
Speaker 2: even say like you watch CSI and I'm like that's
Speaker 2: like super well constructed like storytelling or whatever. But I
Speaker 2: you know, as far as doing this sort of elevated thing,
Speaker 2: is Brian Fuller the only one I don't know, but I.
Speaker 4: Remember reading because like obviously like Hannibals on Netflix now
Speaker 4: and like it's you know, it's gained this whole other
Speaker 4: new audience if people were discovering it for the first time,
Speaker 4: and it's become very successful.
Speaker 3: So Fuller has given a lot of.
Speaker 4: Interviews about it, and I think, like the thing I
Speaker 4: read that struck me is he said that like every
Speaker 4: director they worked with on on and they had some
Speaker 4: stacked fucking like old school like Peter maydac fucking John Dall,
Speaker 4: Vincenzo Natale, Neil Marshall for at least one episode. No,
Speaker 4: he just told like everyone like, look, we're not making
Speaker 4: a network show, like just direct this like an.
Speaker 3: Art film from the eighties, Like that's what the book
Speaker 3: should be.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: The only other person I actually I am thinking right now
Speaker 2: is Lynch. Lynch did Twin Peaks and that television.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Shan, you did a video on him that Actually
Speaker 1: your Hannibal video is why I looked you up, Shan
Speaker 1: in the first Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's one of my better ones. I've spent probably
Speaker 5: thirty hours watching interviewed footage and stuff like that. Yeah,
Speaker 5: Fuller is fast, and he's had problems working on TV
Speaker 5: shows trying to get like weird representation or more artistic stuff,
Speaker 5: and his quit shows or after his left shows, they've
Speaker 5: made characters that were gay, straight and stuff like that
Speaker 5: really interesting.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you saw this, but like in
Speaker 4: this recent spate of interviews, one of the most astonishing
Speaker 4: things that he said is that the network take a guess.
Speaker 4: The two actors that they suggested to play Hannibal instead
Speaker 4: of Meds. They wanted either Hugh Grant or John Cusack,
Speaker 4: and he was like, no, it's this guy or nothing.
Speaker 4: And I gotta say wow. I mean obviously like he
Speaker 4: had way more to work with of like developing this character,
Speaker 4: but like Meds, like he leaves Anthony Hopkins in the dust.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Like there is no better or deeper portrayal
Speaker 4: than what Meds does in that because it's just like
Speaker 4: it takes the cooking stuff to a whole other level.
Speaker 4: But there's just something about Meds is like his face
Speaker 4: just looks like a Roman.
Speaker 3: Like marble, like bust or something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, has this icy, like like it's sort of eternal
Speaker 4: quality to it that like's just his little twitches and
Speaker 4: little suggestions are so perverse and deep, Like he's incredible.
Speaker 5: There's a shot in season two where he's trying I
Speaker 5: don't spoiler for jet where he's slamming on a door
Speaker 5: to try to get in and he's throwing his entire
Speaker 5: giant body against the door like an animal. Yeah, terrifying.
Speaker 5: It's legitimately, like really scary, like Anthony Hopkins physically couldn't
Speaker 5: have done.
Speaker 3: He's like a little Welsh guy.
Speaker 1: You know, have you any of y'all read any of
Speaker 1: the books.
Speaker 3: I've actually never read it any Thomas Sarah.
Speaker 10: I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I read all the books, and I actually
Speaker 1: would recommend them. Like it's like an elevated version of
Speaker 1: an airport thriller, Like it is a little bit better
Speaker 1: than all the other ones. But hamble Lecter in the
Speaker 1: book is a lot closer to Anthony Hopkins. He's small,
Speaker 1: he's kind of squat, he's not he's not particularly attractive,
Speaker 1: and he one other detail he has six fingers on
Speaker 1: one of his hands. Yes, in the novel. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: the books are, you know, pretty pretty fun and good.
Speaker 1: Probably the most interesting change between the books and the
Speaker 1: films is that Clarice is like not is like, uh
Speaker 1: like just basically food for Hannibal. Lecter, He's they're not
Speaker 1: really like competitive. Yeah no, no he yeah, like what
Speaker 1: he does to Agent Scully in the Hannibal series is
Speaker 1: basically what he does to Clarice in the in the book.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and he wrote that and Thomas Ayris wrote
Speaker 1: that part after the film version was released where Jodie
Speaker 1: Foster made, you know, Clarice, you know this kind of
Speaker 1: feminist icon, this really tough Bradh Fbi icon. And so
Speaker 1: the first thing he has, you know, Clarice do in
Speaker 1: the sequel book that he wrote is that he has
Speaker 1: her shoot a black woman in while she's holding her
Speaker 1: baby right on TV.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I remember the absolutely terrible Ridley Scott film of Hannibal
Speaker 4: that that was very early on in the movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like they just kill some like yeah some yeah, terrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he was not a fan of any kind
Speaker 1: of copad I guess coming from his work. Shouts still
Speaker 1: a real one. Thomas Harris wrote two more I rore
Speaker 1: another dogshit sequel for money too. I love it. He
Speaker 1: deliberately made it bad.
Speaker 10: I think.
Speaker 5: Fuller talked about if they could get the right. I
Speaker 5: think they had rights issues with MGM for the Clary
Speaker 5: Starling character, but he was talking about making her black
Speaker 5: in the Hannibal TV show if he ever got to
Speaker 5: that point or other stuff, that he would experiment with it.
Speaker 5: Like I don't know, this is probably like eight years
Speaker 5: ago when he was talking about this, but I thought
Speaker 5: that was interesting.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean you could play with a lot
Speaker 4: like of her, like being always sort of an outsider,
Speaker 4: like always feeling eyes on her or like not like
Speaker 4: you know, of the FBI, but not really like in it,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they kind of just in the books, they just
Speaker 1: made their like white trash. I guess.
Speaker 4: You know what I see with your with your cheap
Speaker 4: with your with your good bag and your cheap shoes,
Speaker 4: I see a.
Speaker 1: Roobe and like this. These scenes that all the all
Speaker 1: the tropes of the Serial Killer Hunters show shows that
Speaker 1: we've seen so many, they all started with me, Like
Speaker 1: all of them are just straight up from Manhunting, where
Speaker 1: you get all the cops together and then the FBI
Speaker 1: agent you know, gets in front of them and just
Speaker 1: blows their fucking you know, hac minds with his profile.
Speaker 4: Well that's what I liked about the the other the
Speaker 4: Netflix suw mind Hunters. You know, they've they've moved on
Speaker 4: from hunting Men to hunt. What I liked about mind
Speaker 4: Hunters is that, like, you know, it's about like the
Speaker 4: creation of like, uh, the FBI's like Forensic Psychology Division.
Speaker 4: But like, what I liked about the show is that
Speaker 4: it does, you, I think, a subtle but pretty good
Speaker 4: job of showing that it's complete bullshit and then like
Speaker 4: it it hasn't actually caught anyone, and like like like
Speaker 4: all of the worst serial killers got away with it
Speaker 4: for fucking years and only got caught because of like
Speaker 4: the dumbest possible mistakes. But especially like the first season
Speaker 4: of mind Hunter, like basically what it's about is the
Speaker 4: FBI learning about sex for the first time. They're like
Speaker 4: they're like, uh yeah, like there's this thing called masturbation
Speaker 4: that people are compelled to do. And then like all
Speaker 4: the like uptight like teeth grinding psychos are just sort
Speaker 4: of like, I don't know, I've given you a long
Speaker 4: lease for this, but this is going too far.
Speaker 3: I think the this is the director's cut of Manhunter.
Speaker 5: No longer.
Speaker 3: I think this is maybe yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: This was the one that available. This is what all
Speaker 1: the torrent sites had.
Speaker 2: They had this, Well, then that's obviously the course.
Speaker 5: Get the transfer on this scene looks a little different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I believe this is the director's cut. We
Speaker 2: have the extra four minutes. Well, theatricals one twenty the directors
Speaker 2: directors is one. Yeah, and this you.
Speaker 4: See, I think the Tom Newton has the like the
Speaker 4: the red dragon tattoo.
Speaker 5: Mm see this looks really different right here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is completely yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we are watching it as Michael Man intended. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: so man, I feel like he is someone who just
Speaker 1: does not get the credit that he deserves.
Speaker 2: Just a workhorse, Honestly, Michael Man like just like cracks
Speaker 2: out hits like truly like a sort of like more
Speaker 2: I don't know, like an old time director or something
Speaker 2: like that. Like he's just like quietly like churning out
Speaker 2: bangers out there.
Speaker 4: Oh he's he's like he's absolutely a no chair like
Speaker 4: he's he's untouchable, Like nobody makes movies that look like
Speaker 4: to this stuff.
Speaker 3: Like it's just like.
Speaker 4: Like I mean, look at look look at just the
Speaker 4: green like slats behind these guys right now.
Speaker 2: I guess I never. I'm like, looking through his more
Speaker 2: recent stuff, I'm like, I guess I never saw someone
Speaker 2: I never saw, like a public enemies. Although I like
Speaker 2: a collateral. I like a collateral. Collateral is not bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like Miami Vice quite a bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember like Miami Vice.
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, this is like the local FBI
Speaker 4: guy who's like, yeah, just sort of big dicking it
Speaker 4: by being like, oh yeah, by the way, I heard
Speaker 4: Lecter gutting you about that bringing that up.
Speaker 5: Buddy of the Blinds reflected in his classes, that looks
Speaker 5: so cool.
Speaker 2: The Insider is a really good underrated It's underrated underrated.
Speaker 2: I watched it recently, and there's a funny element to it,
Speaker 2: which is that it's like all about people like learning
Speaker 2: that cigarettes are like, you know, dangerous, and that is
Speaker 2: such like old information to us that it's like it's
Speaker 2: funny to watch people being like are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: And the executives like knew about this that it's like
Speaker 2: hurting people Now like twenty years later, I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: we saw what happened from this information coming out.
Speaker 4: Like well, yeah, no, it is funny in retrospect because
Speaker 4: you know, I remember growing up you know, just being
Speaker 4: like inundated with like anti tobacco. Yeah, you know, like
Speaker 4: learning and probably truth about how like you know. Oh
Speaker 4: and the idea is like, oh my god, like you know,
Speaker 4: they knew the connection between in cancer and how addictive
Speaker 4: nicotine was blah blah blah. And it's like if you
Speaker 4: compare that ship to like, I don't know what, like
Speaker 4: Exxon knew about global warming in the seventies, a misdemeanor
Speaker 4: like that bad.
Speaker 2: Like that is another element too. I'm like, man, yeah,
Speaker 2: like I don't know, a lot of the companies were
Speaker 2: up some bad ship.
Speaker 4: They were Okay, here we got Stephen lang Is playing
Speaker 4: Freddie Brownce. Here is there any actor who's had like
Speaker 4: a more like alpha glow up than this guy?
Speaker 3: It was like this little weasel in this movie Avatar.
Speaker 3: He's just like fucking yeah, Like how much fucking gear
Speaker 3: is he on?
Speaker 11: You guys?
Speaker 3: Don't breathe?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Jesus' breath was awesome.
Speaker 1: It was good.
Speaker 7: It was good.
Speaker 1: He is fucking jack.
Speaker 3: But like he's the.
Speaker 4: Least like like intimidating individual imaginable here, But like it's
Speaker 4: something shifted in his career where like he man just
Speaker 4: hard asses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually respected. This is somebody who was like
Speaker 2: a bit player. Then he's like, you know what, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be a character actor. Like I'm the villain, I'm
Speaker 2: a character actor, and I'm gonna become a character actor.
Speaker 2: I love and respect a character actor. I love character
Speaker 2: actors so much.
Speaker 1: Did you see when he was campaigning to be a cable.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah he would have been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that fucking dickhead who already has Stanos Decide.
Speaker 3: Like three other Marvel movies.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, speaking about Marvel movies, I've just recently been
Speaker 4: watching the The X Men.
Speaker 3: Movies because like, okay, okay, actually like I like them.
Speaker 4: I would say like the closest like probably like my
Speaker 4: favorite of the Marvel movies. And man, it is so
Speaker 4: funny watching Hugh Jackman at the beginning of those movies
Speaker 4: versus like now, like how much like he's like he
Speaker 4: has abtracted like fifteen.
Speaker 3: Years off his life to play Wolver Yeah, just.
Speaker 4: How many stir Like he looks tiny even an X
Speaker 4: Men two, he is so fucking diesel By Logan or
Speaker 4: the rest, like, and he's like in his fifties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Like huge Jackman, Jackman he huge Jackman.
Speaker 1: He's so ripped by Logan, who like that's like as
Speaker 1: far as the inconsequentiality of the role versus how much
Speaker 1: damage he did to himself, it's probably like some kind
Speaker 1: of record, even though I did love Logan, but damn, yeah,
Speaker 1: Logan was good.
Speaker 2: Those X Men's are pretty good, though, you know, despite
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, well, they're singer, but singer makes
Speaker 2: a good movie. He does make good movies.
Speaker 4: Yeah, X two and X Men First Class I like
Speaker 4: a lot. They're both very fund.
Speaker 2: X one the first X Men I like a lot,
Speaker 2: but it is like the plot is too stupid, Like
Speaker 2: the villain's idea is like way too dumb. But I'm
Speaker 2: like came before any other superhero movies. I can be
Speaker 2: a little bit nice, but yeah, using the Statue of
Speaker 2: Liberty to make everyone into mutants some silly shit.
Speaker 1: It is not any siller than like the bat the
Speaker 1: plot of like The Riddler and Batman Forever or something
Speaker 1: to Basically, I.
Speaker 2: Rewatched Batman Forever recently and I like it. It's cartoony
Speaker 2: in a way that is good. They play cartoon sound
Speaker 2: effects in that movie, like it's like it's it is
Speaker 2: a big cartoon, and I'm like, I like speed Racer
Speaker 2: and I like Batman forever that I have to be consistent.
Speaker 5: Here is this another deleted scene?
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is Yeah, you can tell when it suddenly
Speaker 2: gets like mega blurry. It's like a work print all
Speaker 2: of a sudden.
Speaker 1: Yeahs as the director intended, obvious.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so the jail in this is the High Museum
Speaker 5: of Art in Atlanta.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, cool.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know about like this shot, but when
Speaker 5: he's running around.
Speaker 3: When he runs out of it.
Speaker 12: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Here we got Brian Cox in the first ever screen
Speaker 4: portrayal of Hannibal Lecter. And what I like about this
Speaker 4: is like, this is the only version of Hannibal that's
Speaker 4: ever portrayed where it actually seems like he's in jail.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds to the lambs. It's like a little weird.
Speaker 3: He has that like you know, sort of glass Qub's in.
Speaker 4: And then best of all, like the second half of
Speaker 4: season three of Hannibal, for some reason, they just put
Speaker 4: him in like the most beautifully appointed office that he
Speaker 4: can't It's.
Speaker 3: Just like this guy's killed like dozens of like what
Speaker 3: the fuck?
Speaker 1: This is the least art museum. Look at Jail. Of
Speaker 1: all the versions that he's been.
Speaker 2: In, it's so funny. Yeah, you would think the others
Speaker 2: are all filmed that art museums are Apple stores.
Speaker 1: Now, shan you you lit? So you're in Atlanta, right,
Speaker 1: So this film is film partially at least in Atlanta.
Speaker 1: Why does this movie look better than any of the
Speaker 1: other things that were filmed in Atlanta starting around on
Speaker 1: like the two thousands onward. Why does all of that look.
Speaker 5: Like garbage because all of it, like ninety percent of
Speaker 5: it is Avengers stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5: It's there are some hotels that, like the hotel in
Speaker 5: this the Atlanta Marriott Marquee is in like Hunger Games
Speaker 5: and some other movies, and it's the same hotel just like. However,
Speaker 5: many years later, I think people location scouts just walk
Speaker 5: into the Marriott and they're like, oh my god, because
Speaker 5: it looks really weird. But I don't know Michael Man
Speaker 5: actually cares about filmmaking.
Speaker 4: Brian Cox's portrayal of Lecter is like, it's interesting because
Speaker 4: he plays him like a little bit rougher. He plays
Speaker 4: him a little bit like a little bit nasty or
Speaker 4: a little bit less refined, like he still has the
Speaker 4: sort of the suggestion of a refinement and culture, but
Speaker 4: he does seem more like a guy who's like, you know,
Speaker 4: a prisoner, like like a dangerous criminal run right, just
Speaker 4: sort of this like ultimate Avatar like sophistication and like
Speaker 4: above it all, like this sort of unretchable godlike figure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like there's like and I and I find
Speaker 2: it appealing. Actually there is like kind of an intensity
Speaker 2: and like desperation in Lector that you don't see in
Speaker 2: these others. He's like, you know, the he's like the
Speaker 2: devil prison. He's the king of prison and it's all
Speaker 2: got like Saladin in his cell.
Speaker 4: He like like he's portrayed like as Hopkins and then
Speaker 4: especially as As in the TV services, like he is
Speaker 4: basically Satan, Like he's just like Lucifer Andcarnate, and like
Speaker 4: he does like he does nothing that he's not in
Speaker 4: control of or isn't part of some like master plan
Speaker 4: or just something that he does to amuse himself, whereas
Speaker 4: in this movie, like You're right at Jack, it's like
Speaker 4: what he does to Will here like is out of
Speaker 4: a sense of like revenge and desperation on his part,
Speaker 4: Like he's not above being moved by like human concerns.
Speaker 2: And listen, I love Hopkins portrayal, and I love MADD's
Speaker 2: portrayal too, But there's something about this portrayal that does
Speaker 2: strike me as a little more what like a real
Speaker 2: life intense murderer might be like you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: he's like compulsive murder.
Speaker 4: This is the most human version of the yes, like
Speaker 4: the most like sort of realistic if they were like
Speaker 4: real people.
Speaker 1: He's the only version that isn't always in control.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. This is such a funny You're right that
Speaker 2: this is such a funny idea of what like murder
Speaker 2: detectives do. They just like let a murderer solve it
Speaker 2: for him. He's like ostensibly like the courier of photos.
Speaker 1: That's like like you like you point that out, Jack,
Speaker 1: Like that was like a new thing that this you know,
Speaker 1: thing kind of invented. It's so it's so much a
Speaker 1: trope now, like these whole TV shows like Criminal Minds
Speaker 1: does this like every fucking season, the cool vilain gets
Speaker 1: to come back to consult on the case for whatever reason.
Speaker 3: Very shy boy.
Speaker 4: Well, and I like that, like, I mean like they
Speaker 4: let him have like a couple books, but not like
Speaker 4: a library and an arts Yeah, he's killed fifteen fucking people.
Speaker 4: Like how much consideration is you gonna get just because
Speaker 4: just because you can still write articles for academic journals.
Speaker 1: I love that delivery of it. Yeah, it's fantastic, Like
Speaker 1: it is such a gift that we have all of
Speaker 1: these lecters, Like you don't have to pick one, you
Speaker 1: can enjoy all of them.
Speaker 13: I love his framing of them in the same yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 13: so yeah.
Speaker 1: And his manipulation is a little bit more obvious in
Speaker 1: this one.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, like you can, like you can read his
Speaker 4: motivations more clearly here.
Speaker 3: You want the sense smell yourself?
Speaker 7: Yeah, so good.
Speaker 4: So yeah, this is a this this sequence here where
Speaker 4: he read this is the what the Museum of Modern
Speaker 4: Art in Atlanta.
Speaker 5: The High Museum.
Speaker 3: High Museum, Okay, okay, very cool.
Speaker 2: That is location.
Speaker 5: It had a really cool outsider art exhibit last last
Speaker 5: year or the year before that, I went.
Speaker 4: To coincidentally, most outsider art just means done by a
Speaker 4: serial killer.
Speaker 5: They had a whole Henry Darger. Yeah yeah, all that white.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, like it's just like, yeah, these colors.
Speaker 4: Are so bright and like what songs the limbs and
Speaker 4: it's like it's it's the most like autumn toned movie ever.
Speaker 2: It is actually, you know, cool and interesting to do
Speaker 2: a hyper brightly lit, a sensibly horror movie.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, yeah, definitely like Midsomaro. Yeah, this wasn't
Speaker 5: my favorite movie, but that cinematography is.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Even the scenehere he was meeting with Lecter there, like
Speaker 2: that is just like bright white, almost like Neo getting
Speaker 2: the guns in the matrix, like bright white.
Speaker 1: Wow, Press is the enemy of the people.
Speaker 4: I was always it was funny in the TV series,
Speaker 4: like the you know, the they gender swap Freddy Lowndes
Speaker 4: and they also let her live through the entire thing
Speaker 4: by switching her up like with her horrible fake to
Speaker 4: uh doctor Chilton.
Speaker 3: And I fucking loved what's his name?
Speaker 4: Uh, he's so good and he was so good as Chiltern.
Speaker 4: But what I loved in Hannibal the TV series again
Speaker 4: spoiler alerts, sorry, Jack, it's the it's it is the
Speaker 4: funniest long shot joke over three series, over three seasons
Speaker 4: of that show that he is somehow still alive at
Speaker 4: the end of it as well, but like you feel
Speaker 4: bad for him by the end.
Speaker 3: He doesn't even.
Speaker 5: Deserve that, and Roll Barsa plays it so well because
Speaker 5: he's so like he gets played by everyone, but he's
Speaker 5: such a jerk that it's like I kind of deserves it.
Speaker 5: But no, I oh my god, that performance and that character.
Speaker 3: Guy.
Speaker 1: I love this ship he does with the phone. This
Speaker 1: is like just straight up crooked ship to do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's Echolson would have some kind of elaborate device
Speaker 5: to do that, not like a gumpack.
Speaker 3: I love when you choose the gum here too, It's
Speaker 3: so good.
Speaker 5: Bloom was also.
Speaker 2: Again even this like him pulling something off. There is
Speaker 2: like a desperation kind of to it, like a quickness,
Speaker 2: you know. Oh, I love it.
Speaker 7: His face, he's.
Speaker 5: Like that she doesn't think anything's up. Let's need the
Speaker 5: home address of an FBI agent because I.
Speaker 3: Had this job in publishing and I would have done
Speaker 3: this in thing.
Speaker 4: I want to get down one's home address.
Speaker 3: Uh do you know.
Speaker 4: Brian Cox is actually I think he's a pretty big
Speaker 4: lefty in real life too.
Speaker 2: I really I didn't know that good he was.
Speaker 4: He grew up Scottish and he grew up Catholic in Scotland,
Speaker 4: so he always had that kind of putrid of you know,
Speaker 4: Anglo Protestant willing class.
Speaker 2: You know, he's great, he's such a good actor, good
Speaker 2: and everything.
Speaker 4: Oh, this is so funny too. You always gets sat
Speaker 4: next to the worst person on an airplane. You know,
Speaker 4: this is what it was like before everyone had like
Speaker 4: you know, Wi Fi and their personal movies.
Speaker 3: You just have to look at like fucking photos of
Speaker 3: a butchered Fani. It's like, you know, his wife here.
Speaker 4: It's just like with with few exceptions, like women just
Speaker 4: basically don't exist in the Michael Mann universe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they do. Only is just sort of like.
Speaker 4: Or impediments to work, the man doing his job.
Speaker 2: You know, it's you know, it's like it's it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's the kind of modern like you know, I guess
Speaker 2: eighties nineties modern noir.
Speaker 1: But he definitely is a wife guy. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: a movie about him being distracted from his from his
Speaker 1: duties as a wife guy by work. And which which
Speaker 1: would you choose to be?
Speaker 3: Oh god, did he notice when he was sitting next
Speaker 3: to you on this movie?
Speaker 5: This is something the animal Graham would do from the TV. Yeah,
Speaker 5: about these gruesome.
Speaker 3: Pictures, Sorry about that.
Speaker 5: It's one way to get your own seat though.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, like like no, this movie is about Yeah,
Speaker 4: like I said, the movies are about minute work. It's
Speaker 4: like you can either be a wife guy or a
Speaker 4: work guy, but you can't like when you try to
Speaker 4: combine the two, it leads to disaster.
Speaker 1: Now and you know spoilers for the Hannimal series, but
Speaker 1: this Will Graham does not make the choice to live
Speaker 1: happily after after with Hannibal leaving his wife without any
Speaker 1: you know, notification or goodbye, and all his dogs too.
Speaker 9: He does.
Speaker 4: That is so funny, the way they just dispense with
Speaker 4: his wife and kids.
Speaker 1: And this gets this guy this he wants to go
Speaker 1: back to them always this movie.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just imagine seeing that guy in my yard,
Speaker 5: like hello, Yeah.
Speaker 1: But he's so stylish.
Speaker 5: Can I help you?
Speaker 1: That's a really cool suit.
Speaker 5: Could be so high, it's supposed to be Alabama full
Speaker 5: some sort of tweed style blazer.
Speaker 2: Almost look like the Lore or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I bet they thought building that tire swing would be
Speaker 4: fun for their kids. M see the hug the huge
Speaker 4: dancy Will Graham could not climb this road.
Speaker 1: Yeah he was his fit boy, but you have the
Speaker 1: upper Yeah, he.
Speaker 4: Weighed about ninety pounds. I guess maybe it'd be easier
Speaker 4: for him to climbing.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I love this. I love that how he
Speaker 1: does the mind hunting and every you know, procedure has
Speaker 1: different ways to do the mind hunting scene. This is
Speaker 1: like the first one and just kind of does a
Speaker 1: voice over mixed and like my self monologue.
Speaker 4: I mean we saw examples of it like like early on,
Speaker 4: like after like after he goes to the first crime
Speaker 4: scene and he's like he's watching the video in his
Speaker 4: hotel room and like this whole repeated use of like
Speaker 4: uh like his his mind hunting technique or like he's
Speaker 4: profiling him.
Speaker 3: You watch them all goddamn day. Yeah, like about dreaming.
Speaker 4: It's thing about dreaming and seeing and things like that,
Speaker 4: and also like watching videos like it's just like it's again,
Speaker 4: it's very like sort of like meta like visual narrative
Speaker 4: about like movies themselves being like like the our sort
Speaker 4: of mind's eye, the way we experience our dreams.
Speaker 3: And then also like this like yeah, like something.
Speaker 4: Very perverse about it, like this male gaze of like
Speaker 4: you know, seeking out victims and like living out violent
Speaker 4: sexual fantasies through watching yeah film itself, Like, I think
Speaker 4: that he's playing with a lot of that in this movie.
Speaker 3: That's how I read it.
Speaker 1: I think my favorite version of My Hunting is David
Speaker 1: Lynch's that he does with the we does the ceremony.
Speaker 1: Agent Cooper goes out in like the fifty six episode
Speaker 1: and he goes out in the forest and like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh here's doctor Chilton. This is like this is ah.
Speaker 4: You get a little glimpse of Chiltern's sort of pressy
Speaker 4: sleaziness here.
Speaker 5: No one as far as that character, I will.
Speaker 1: Not you like such a perfect little worm. But it's
Speaker 1: so weird because on SVU he plays a da who's
Speaker 1: supposed to be like noble and ship, but he's still
Speaker 1: like just comes across as a little worm too.
Speaker 5: He's also a Broadway star.
Speaker 4: He was in I saw his Yeah, I saw him
Speaker 4: in the stage version of David Mammet's Speed the Plow
Speaker 4: with him Jeremy Piven and Elizabeth Moss.
Speaker 3: That was so bad. It was the one.
Speaker 4: Jeremy Piven like tried to get out of or quit
Speaker 4: like a week into its run by saying he had
Speaker 4: food poisoning or something, or like he did the Jordan
Speaker 4: Peterson thing. I think he said, like he ate sushi
Speaker 4: and it gave him like some sort of iron, some
Speaker 4: sort of blood disorder that it prevented him from continuing
Speaker 4: to do the play. And then I think, like I
Speaker 4: remember in that, like after they replaced him with William H. Macy,
Speaker 4: like the first night Asparsa addressed the audience and apologized
Speaker 4: to them for how bad.
Speaker 3: It fucking was before it.
Speaker 4: But Asparsa was great, but like Pivot and Elizabeth Moss
Speaker 4: on Broadway, where it was ooh not good.
Speaker 1: Wow. I like that he checks his mentions. He's a
Speaker 1: he's mad about mad about my mention.
Speaker 5: Name searching, name searches those plants just in the corners
Speaker 5: little Green.
Speaker 4: See, this is what Crawford does. He has no insight
Speaker 4: into any like investigating any crime. He just tells people
Speaker 4: to do things.
Speaker 1: He's a manager.
Speaker 2: He's an executive.
Speaker 3: He's just he's just a manager.
Speaker 2: He's an overseer. He's an executive. He knows what needs
Speaker 2: to get done and he knows how to tell people
Speaker 2: to do it.
Speaker 1: So favorite Jack Crawford, Dennis Farina.
Speaker 3: Or I mean, I like Scott Glenn from Sounds to
Speaker 3: the Lambs.
Speaker 5: I have to rewatch Sounds of the Lambs. I haven't
Speaker 5: seen it in a while.
Speaker 12: I do.
Speaker 5: It's extremely goods Hannibal, Oh yeah, A few times.
Speaker 1: I gotta go with Fishburn Larry Fish, old Larry Fish,
Speaker 1: because he doesn't do like the weird. He's just like
Speaker 1: he's just so like I just love that fight. That's
Speaker 1: so so he is fucking Morpheus and it's just so cool.
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, because like like Hannibal beats him one time,
Speaker 4: and then I love when Jack gets like a second
Speaker 4: chance and just beats the ship out of him, and
Speaker 4: that in Florence, in that ancient, like beautiful, beautifully appointed,
Speaker 4: he ruins like probably several dozens like priceless antiques of
Speaker 4: medieval Italian Renaissance, like torture devices or whatever. But then
Speaker 4: when he finally gets that, like the Cannibals so unphased
Speaker 4: by it, like he just uses an example to just
Speaker 4: crack a joke about his dead wife.
Speaker 3: It's so perfect, like he's so nasty. Oh, I love it.
Speaker 4: Just all the specifics, all the technical technical details of investigations.
Speaker 2: I do always like a dnnis Farina, though I do
Speaker 2: like a dentist sparina. Another kind of character actory guy.
Speaker 1: He also did a stint on The Lauren Order.
Speaker 3: And Laurence Fishman did a stint on CSI. I think
Speaker 3: we're playing yeah Peterson.
Speaker 1: Yeah he did. He was actually really bad in CSA.
Speaker 1: He was They made him like be They want him
Speaker 1: to be like nerdier than this guy. They wanted him
Speaker 1: to be like kind of nebbish and oh, I'm not
Speaker 1: used to being out in the field for some reason,
Speaker 1: I didn't get it.
Speaker 5: An overhead projector.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's like it's kind of like an overhead projector
Speaker 1: with like a direct feed.
Speaker 14: Yeah, these are the tech guys.
Speaker 3: The lab.
Speaker 6: Will stay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like they I like, like in the Hannibal
Speaker 4: the TV series, like in the first season, like they
Speaker 4: really do.
Speaker 3: It starts out like a like a typical kind of.
Speaker 4: Case of the Week show, and they really play up
Speaker 4: like Scott Thompson and that other guy is like the
Speaker 4: sort of yeah, like the lab geeks and comic relief,
Speaker 4: but also like how they completely go away as the
Speaker 4: show into something else entirely.
Speaker 1: And they just kind of they just kind of duck
Speaker 1: in to say, hey, where's nobody's killed us yet, like
Speaker 1: every three or four episodes. Then that's about it.
Speaker 10: And they did think.
Speaker 5: They kind of had to prove to NBC that they
Speaker 5: could like have a show and had the procedural for
Speaker 5: the first season. I think it was kind of deliberate
Speaker 5: on Brian Fuller's part, and then once it worked, then
Speaker 5: he was able to that's all you got to see
Speaker 5: the other two seasons, Jack, because it just goes completely
Speaker 5: off the reels.
Speaker 2: I love it, Yeah, I kind of, you know, honestly,
Speaker 2: the The Killer of the Week like soured me on
Speaker 2: it a little bit, so I'm glad to hear that
Speaker 2: it does get Yeah, it was a little it was
Speaker 2: a little small villy in that first season. Even though
Speaker 2: I was like, this is gorgeous and well acted and
Speaker 2: like actually it's like very cool, I kind of just
Speaker 2: fell off kind of for that reason.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because like you're you're straight jacketed by the sort
Speaker 4: of the Killer of the Week thing, especially if it's
Speaker 4: about serial killers like like criminal minds or whatever. It's
Speaker 4: just like it just breaks all credulity because it just
Speaker 4: does they thinking like oh, Chris Elliot, here cameo by
Speaker 4: christ Oh yeah great, but like yeah, just strange credulity
Speaker 4: because like they want you to inhabit a universe in which,
Speaker 4: like at any given moment in America there are like
Speaker 4: three hundred serial killers working full time.
Speaker 2: And also like and also like you know, artist serial killers.
Speaker 4: Like freedom to Construct, like some some creso like installation
Speaker 4: involving three hundred dead bodies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's kind of feel to it, Like it seems
Speaker 2: like this is a universe where people are more likely
Speaker 2: to be you know, artistic murderers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean that's what I liked about Hannibal's,
Speaker 4: Like as the show goes on, I really appreciated that
Speaker 4: they abandoned any pretense to realism and just went along
Speaker 4: like operatic, like just art film like like not even
Speaker 4: trying to portray universe or like an FBI it's anything
Speaker 4: close to reality.
Speaker 1: So Jack, you mentioned how like there's in the serial
Speaker 1: Killer of the Week shows that Harris to be like
Speaker 1: seven hundred serial killers in America, but have you there's
Speaker 1: actually they're doing some research that and for for now,
Speaker 1: it's suggests that like serial killers are basically out of
Speaker 1: fashion now, Like.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's dude, it's weird.
Speaker 4: Like the serial killer both as like a thing that
Speaker 4: happens and in American imagination has like gone away almost completely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it just seems like they've been replaced by
Speaker 3: like the spree kill that I.
Speaker 5: Wondered, like, are people who would have been serial killers
Speaker 5: now deciding or like subconsciously whatever to just get a
Speaker 5: gun and go to a mall or whatever.
Speaker 2: It is really really strange that like that there's like
Speaker 2: a stylish way to be a mass murderer for every
Speaker 2: like generation. It's like there was the generation that liked
Speaker 2: to do little tricks and play games.
Speaker 1: With the album letters and yeah and the fun. If
Speaker 1: it is true that is generational, then the entire like
Speaker 1: foundation of like this criminal behavior shit, it's completely fucking
Speaker 1: phony because it wouldn't make it because there because they'll
Speaker 1: tell you like, oh, someone becomes a mass shooter for X,
Speaker 1: Y and Z psychological reasons. Somebody becomes a serial killer
Speaker 1: for this reason. But if it's just more like like
Speaker 1: a fad sort of thing depending on the spirit of
Speaker 1: the time, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Who knows what zoomer killers will even be, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we probably can't even we can't even imagine it.
Speaker 4: Well, like I said, like the thing with the thing
Speaker 4: with like the mind Hunter's TV show, like it's the
Speaker 4: FBI learning about sex, Like it's all based on the
Speaker 4: idea that like essentially like all serial killers are working
Speaker 4: out some like pathological sexual fetish, which is I guess,
Speaker 4: like you know, not untrue, but like it seems like
Speaker 4: sex is a motivation is completely drained out of like
Speaker 4: the Mass Shooter profile. I's zoomers are just like you know,
Speaker 4: not they don't care about sex.
Speaker 2: If they're if there's sex in the in the in
Speaker 2: the new Mass Shooter, it's like not having sex. It's
Speaker 2: like the like I have never had sex, you know, sadly,
Speaker 2: you know, there are Chad and virgin serial killers. To
Speaker 2: be totally honest with you, the Chad serial killer sends
Speaker 2: letters to the newspaper. The virgin is it actually a virgin?
Speaker 3: Yeah, making moves.
Speaker 1: So you know, in this in this man herner, I
Speaker 1: have to say that even though it's like all one
Speaker 1: percent men, the emotional intelligence of all the men around
Speaker 1: Will is a little bit higher than the average emotional
Speaker 1: intelligence in Hannibal, where they gender swapped a lot of
Speaker 1: the characters. Like in Hannibal, the characters all like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Will is breaking apart, but like Jack said,
Speaker 1: he's taking care of it. So like I don't need
Speaker 1: to worry about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is also funny the way they look like
Speaker 4: in Hannibal, the way they just keep they keep letting
Speaker 4: Will like completely lose his mind and like fuck up
Speaker 4: a crime scene and then they're just like, no, it's okay,
Speaker 4: Like just he needs he needs, he needs a second
Speaker 4: to himself. I like, yeah, this is also like basically
Speaker 4: this is the FBI mind hunting manual over there, like
Speaker 4: if all those fills, just like just call him gay.
Speaker 1: If you want to see taco.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, snappy answers to stupid questions.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so interesting how they use this in the hand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they completely reverse this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll like straight up murders of friends basically.
Speaker 3: Yeah mhm.
Speaker 9: Mhm.
Speaker 1: Look at that tie, that fucking square end, that pose.
Speaker 4: Mhm h.
Speaker 8: M hmm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, read a fucking book.
Speaker 5: Here we are deleted glory.
Speaker 1: That's that's showing him I'm not wanting to see his wife.
Speaker 1: I guess uh. The studio didn't like that, Like, no,
Speaker 1: you need to make it very clear that Will is
Speaker 1: very horny for his wife. Don't like deny that anyway.
Speaker 3: Just geeking out on this on this, on this gun.
Speaker 1: I like the little zoom just right on the bullets, like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, this is the good ship. There's an instpacy
Speaker 1: look at him, like, bro's gotta take care of each
Speaker 1: other in this universe.
Speaker 4: Perfect Like the onion cartoonist Kelly like Sico, yes in
Speaker 4: the window.
Speaker 3: Looking good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like he's like like taking time out of the case,
Speaker 4: like keep having keep them, keep the relationship alive.
Speaker 1: It's very important when you're hunting hunting sickos that you
Speaker 1: don't become one ever ever masturbate.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, he's like, I'm in a hotel by myself.
Speaker 2: Hours of time.
Speaker 11: Fuck.
Speaker 4: Another big trope in Michael Mann movies is like women
Speaker 4: who are too interested in what their what their husband
Speaker 4: or lover, like does you know like al Pacino and.
Speaker 3: Heat where he's like, I told you, baby, when.
Speaker 4: We first start out, we're gonna have to share me
Speaker 4: with all the bad things in the world.
Speaker 3: And he's like, what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 4: Come home and there's this junkie who just cooked his
Speaker 4: baby in his mic away.
Speaker 3: Let's share that, honey.
Speaker 4: And like in Thief too, you know it's just it's
Speaker 4: just don't ask me about my work, Like that's just
Speaker 4: like it's the it's the Michaelman masculine.
Speaker 5: She's asking the most like basic questions, just like curious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the TV series made Will's wife a lot more
Speaker 1: like helpful and understanding as opposed to like a little
Speaker 1: bit more I think a lot of things would have
Speaker 1: made her more like a nag of some sort, but
Speaker 1: they really I don't think they really did in the
Speaker 1: book either, if I'm remembering correctly, she was also more
Speaker 1: pushing Will to do it. I think in the book.
Speaker 1: Oh these sense. This is a very romantic movie too,
Speaker 1: Like it is kind of a romance, Like it's a
Speaker 1: love story. It's like the center of this, which is
Speaker 1: true for the Hannibal series too.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, certified wife guy here.
Speaker 1: Will and hannib will never get a seen like this
Speaker 1: in the show. Sorry if they yes, Oh this looks badass?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so so tight, Like this is right after he's
Speaker 4: made love to his wife another time.
Speaker 3: Then he's like, Okay, I'm just I'm going out for
Speaker 3: a walk, honey.
Speaker 4: And be back in a little bit maybe haha, just
Speaker 4: making myself a target for a serial killer.
Speaker 5: That same shade of green. I love the way that's
Speaker 5: using this movie.
Speaker 1: Like we talked about how bright. Most of this movie
Speaker 1: is but like man knows how to.
Speaker 4: Do, like to shoot nighttime man like the uh the
Speaker 4: used car lot and thief Man just like so so beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like trying to like invent cameras, digital
Speaker 1: cameras to shoot at night for Miami Vice.
Speaker 2: I love when directors become inventors. I love James camera,
Speaker 2: Like when directing leads you to like, well, I must
Speaker 2: craft something a bathosphere.
Speaker 4: When stealing Kubrick stole that camera lens from NASA to
Speaker 4: the candle scenes and Barry Linden, oh man, Barry.
Speaker 2: Land and that's it. That's a uh under respected Kubrick.
Speaker 2: I think actually.
Speaker 4: Very funny, very funny movie.
Speaker 2: Ryland and I've talked about. Barry Lynden reminds me a
Speaker 2: lot of like Jody Hill eastbounding down kind of like
Speaker 2: stuff like he's a buffoon. He's just a buffoon. It's
Speaker 2: a super funny movie.
Speaker 4: Real quick here, super unrealistic part of this movie that
Speaker 4: likes the DC police and FBI don't just arrest or kill.
Speaker 1: He sees days black and then he's like, oh, don't shoo,
Speaker 1: he's a black guy.
Speaker 2: Stop.
Speaker 1: But then you realize the black guy is actually like
Speaker 1: a boogie as DC yuppies, so you don't feel.
Speaker 2: Sorry for a senator?
Speaker 15: Yes, got you?
Speaker 1: No, poor Freddy?
Speaker 5: Was it cut the ginger? And you know, and in
Speaker 5: this scene in the Hannibal Chilton is completely nude and
Speaker 5: glued to the.
Speaker 2: Jam another very sort of just like chillingly real seeming
Speaker 2: murderer here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is that a Maxi pad he has over his eyes?
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, I think so.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: But but jack back here what you said about Barry Linden, Like,
Speaker 4: I've never thought of it that way like that.
Speaker 3: It is like a Danny.
Speaker 4: It's like a like an eighteenth century version of like
Speaker 4: mcride j Jony Hill character. And you're you're totally right,
Speaker 4: that's wow. You think about that for a while.
Speaker 1: And Freddy Lowndes of course in a Red Dragon is played.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, so we got here.
Speaker 4: We've got Tom Noonan here as as Francis dollar Hyde.
Speaker 3: Uh the Red Dragon aka the tooth Fairy.
Speaker 4: Yes, oh, man, Jesus Christ, a guy who's great and
Speaker 4: just playing like scary looking people in like a kind
Speaker 4: of understated way. But do you know the the coolest
Speaker 4: trivia about the life of Tom Noonan about who his
Speaker 4: college freshman roommate.
Speaker 7: At Yale was.
Speaker 3: No, you never heard of this.
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 4: Then Carson, they were freshman roommates at Yale together.
Speaker 1: That's so funny.
Speaker 2: I wonder where I wonder if there's any taste of
Speaker 2: Carson in this character. I wonder if if he thought
Speaker 2: back on his old roommate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's an interview with him, we can look it
Speaker 4: up where he talks about and he was just like, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, I mean like we were't really friends or anything.
Speaker 4: It's just like the only thing you remembered about Bend
Speaker 4: is anything. Just woke up every morning at like five o'clock,
Speaker 4: put on a suit immediately, and just started doing home.
Speaker 1: Tom Newton an excellent villain here, but I also loved
Speaker 1: him in The Last Action Hero a Ye, Last a Reaper.
Speaker 1: Oh this this is really good. I liked his voice
Speaker 1: is soft in this.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, it's not like overplaying it at all, Like
Speaker 4: Ray findes like that, you know, goes the other direction
Speaker 4: when you know he's good.
Speaker 3: But like that movie is stupid.
Speaker 1: Mhm. Like the fear is really is really good in this.
Speaker 1: In this version of it, it's just so quiet and
Speaker 1: intimate the other the other ones tend to go a
Speaker 1: little bit loud.
Speaker 2: Just like a never ending shot. I love how long
Speaker 2: scary now faces.
Speaker 1: Yoh god, Yeah, what do you think a dollar has apartment?
Speaker 3: Pretty does? It's got sort of a space theme to it.
Speaker 2: Man, m.
Speaker 3: Fuck, you're right, there's like there's a really terrible intimacy
Speaker 3: in that scene. Yeah, it's very soft and yeah.
Speaker 2: Like no scoring, it's a very quiet and very quiet scene.
Speaker 1: I love the sound the sound start at first.
Speaker 5: This expression, huh.
Speaker 4: Jesus, imagine doing that and not getting caught immediately, just
Speaker 4: dumping a guy in a wheelchair on fire out of
Speaker 4: your van or whatever.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know, maybe it was early enough
Speaker 3: in the morning.
Speaker 1: But there is one thing that you know, stretches for
Speaker 1: Duly in the Hannibal series, like he has so much
Speaker 1: time to do, like his body art. Like there's one
Speaker 1: the one where he brings like a fucking tree to
Speaker 1: like the parking lot of a Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's the judge, which is like, isn't it.
Speaker 4: Like it's in the courthouse, in the courthouse in the
Speaker 4: Norman Chapel in Palermo, like making a human or a
Speaker 4: gambi and just sticking it in there like, hm.
Speaker 1: I remember, I can't only imagine your first time watching that.
Speaker 1: You were like for sure, this wife and child are
Speaker 1: about the game. Yeah, it's about to get splatted on screen.
Speaker 4: I love the language of the note too, like, uh,
Speaker 4: save yourself, kill them all.
Speaker 1: Very simple to the point.
Speaker 5: Oh it's trip.
Speaker 1: Here's the blue again.
Speaker 3: M hm mm hmm.
Speaker 4: It's just it's just me a guy with a shotgun.
Speaker 3: Don't be afraid. Look, he hasn't even put the shotgun away.
Speaker 3: He's like pointing it.
Speaker 16: Out her like Okay, let's get some muzzle visible and dude,
Speaker 16: come on, like yeah, Like in this version, his wife
Speaker 16: basically like doesn't want him to go back and investigate
Speaker 16: this case because she knows it will you know, invariably
Speaker 16: lead to.
Speaker 3: Some outcome like this. But in the TV show, Will's
Speaker 3: wife like totally.
Speaker 4: Encourages him to do it and then like him and her,
Speaker 4: her and her child almost get killed by like the
Speaker 4: red dragon actually does make it to their house.
Speaker 1: And then he leaves her for ample.
Speaker 15: Yeah then he just it gonna be real.
Speaker 5: I forgot he had a wife. There's nothing wrong with
Speaker 5: the character.
Speaker 9: But but they delivered.
Speaker 1: They literally cast her to be like as normal and real,
Speaker 1: like a real person in this like fucking gothic horror world.
Speaker 1: I really liked the character, but yeah, like you forget
Speaker 1: that she exists at the most convenient impossible so you
Speaker 1: can get the happy ending of Will Hamble.
Speaker 3: So amazing brands in this shot here. I love the framing.
Speaker 5: Real Products.
Speaker 3: Fruit and fiber, grape nuts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh mister t cereal right there.
Speaker 3: Wow, what a fucking time capsule.
Speaker 4: Always like when brands show up in movies and artful ways,
Speaker 4: because it gives you a sense of like this is
Speaker 4: the like a real world, because like it's when when
Speaker 4: they're sort of excluded or like it might seem crass
Speaker 4: or something. It gives a sense of unreality because like
Speaker 4: the texture of so much of our everyday life is
Speaker 4: just so papered with all this bullshit, like all these
Speaker 4: different Oh those snack packs, man, I used to love those.
Speaker 3: As a kid.
Speaker 4: It is also you know, it's like it would be
Speaker 4: like two good cereals and then five, like your brother
Speaker 4: or sister get that one little fruit loops or Golden
Speaker 4: grams or something.
Speaker 2: You know, you can't, you can't like you know, portray
Speaker 2: a contemporaneous America without putting some logos in and for real,
Speaker 2: like it kind of helps place it in the right
Speaker 2: era too, Like you're like, oh, this is really the nineties,
Speaker 2: Like look at that most.
Speaker 4: Of these brands, like the box looks a little different,
Speaker 4: but all these ship, all these ship still exists.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, walking around most supermarkets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the drop shadow on the logos, that's pretty mm hmm.
Speaker 5: Well he'll tell you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's a small man.
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to be doing hard work some day.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: They're just like blocking the aisle to.
Speaker 1: Relay his story of the time he was almost murdered
Speaker 1: by serial killer.
Speaker 2: Back in the nineties. The aisles were wider, wider back then, folks.
Speaker 3: Folks are gonna make the isles. They're too narrow.
Speaker 2: They are too narrow.
Speaker 3: I get trapped in the aisles.
Speaker 4: Good tricks, Cereal, very good, Count Chocula Lucky Charms.
Speaker 1: Do they still have. I don't think they still have
Speaker 1: Bootberry and Count choculade.
Speaker 5: Seasonally or in the past years. And what is it?
Speaker 5: It's like a freaking sign.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like stuss of strawberry wine.
Speaker 5: Frank and berry.
Speaker 17: Yeah, country corn flakes.
Speaker 3: I don't recognize that. Oh yeah, I've never seen that.
Speaker 5: What does that mean?
Speaker 3: Differ in regular corn flakes?
Speaker 1: You just instead as opposed to Kellogg's. I assume its country, all.
Speaker 4: Right, No, no, no, let's his coffee here because you.
Speaker 3: Like that folgier stuff right now?
Speaker 4: Okay, this is the time capsule element of this scene
Speaker 4: here is because like until about I don't know, nineteen
Speaker 4: ninety nine, I think there was not a single.
Speaker 3: Good breen of coffee available in America.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all the plastic jugs filled with like pre
Speaker 2: ground coffee. That does set us in a time beer.
Speaker 1: That was ten back then, most or at least Folgiers was.
Speaker 1: I remember it was like a ten cam My dad
Speaker 1: would buy like the biggest ones and go through it
Speaker 1: like he would drink coffee every fucking day. This was
Speaker 1: just you know, a different time in America where like
Speaker 1: a family of you know, three or four can live
Speaker 1: on the salary of catching that you get from catching
Speaker 1: like one serial killer every three years, like you get
Speaker 1: like a you get nice house, you get a beach
Speaker 1: house too.
Speaker 4: For like yeah, it's like there's being a being an
Speaker 4: FBI like mind hunter, Like how often are you really
Speaker 4: working It's like what I wonder about firefighter is it's
Speaker 4: just like, what are they doing most of the time
Speaker 4: that many fires like, you know, they're just kind of
Speaker 4: hanging out most of the time eating chili. He's like, no,
Speaker 4: I wanted to go on.
Speaker 12: Just want murderous continue.
Speaker 1: They don't want him care and Brian Fuller's all the
Speaker 1: scene's like, you know what, the wife is actually going
Speaker 1: to be one to tell them to do it. They're
Speaker 1: not putting this ship on me.
Speaker 4: Also, another time, Castle, everybody in America smoked until Michael
Speaker 4: Man's the Insider came out.
Speaker 8: Oh shut up.
Speaker 3: The old ball in Shane.
Speaker 5: Imagine having a husband who got cut up like that
Speaker 5: and then seeing in the paper that he was talking
Speaker 5: to Lec there and you're like, are you okay? And
Speaker 5: he's like, I don't want to.
Speaker 11: Talk about Georgia.
Speaker 3: Go see your dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why don't you get out of my hair for
Speaker 2: a little bit.
Speaker 4: Wonderful school classic, classic addressing the killer looking at himself monologue.
Speaker 7: Here, Wow, the vibes.
Speaker 4: This is what I imagine myself like every time I look
Speaker 4: out a window at night.
Speaker 2: This is all.
Speaker 3: Yes, I wasn't talking to you, shut up. It's another woman. Yeah,
Speaker 3: turn flock.
Speaker 4: Oh so intense, so intense, just you and me now sport.
Speaker 7: Oh man, god.
Speaker 3: Damn it so good.
Speaker 1: You came after me, you came after my family, and
Speaker 1: now we really get to meet Dollar Hide.
Speaker 4: Yeah and like okays, like this movie and I guess
Speaker 4: book really does a lot again like talk about a
Speaker 4: time capsule thing. This idea that like any if you've
Speaker 4: ever like you know, taken family photos, like you'd have
Speaker 4: to send them to go get developed, which meant there
Speaker 4: would be like some fucking creep or random looking at
Speaker 4: whatever whatever you shot, you know, like whereas now we
Speaker 4: all take it for granted that you know, we can
Speaker 4: take a picture of our penis whenever you want without
Speaker 4: anyone else but the intended you know, person looking at it.
Speaker 4: But like, yeah, everyone who've developed film was was a
Speaker 4: serial killer. Probably his wardrobe with oh god, he's got
Speaker 4: dollars in this those those printed uh, like the the
Speaker 4: print shirts that he's wearing.
Speaker 12: I love that.
Speaker 1: What would be even be dollar Hids job in like
Speaker 1: the The Future The Black, the Black reboot of.
Speaker 4: Oh, he'd be one of those like like like Facebook
Speaker 4: moderators that just delete like like pornography.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the only equivalent. Yeah, gets traumatized and I can't.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's funny that like as the
Speaker 1: years go on, like his job gets more traumatizing because
Speaker 1: he starts up, it's worse and worse.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a serial kular backstory.
Speaker 4: No, Like, I mean, this is like a real skill
Speaker 4: that he's like, you know, he knows a lot about
Speaker 4: film and developing film and stuff like that. Like now
Speaker 4: you'd just be like a digital gardener for Google and something.
Speaker 12: M h.
Speaker 3: Good, excuse.
Speaker 12: M hm.
Speaker 9: Yah.
Speaker 4: It's like this guy's typical eighties guy who's like, I
Speaker 4: got a flat, I'm out of here, I got my
Speaker 4: skinny tie.
Speaker 5: If someone's like he can drive you home, I'd be like, no,
Speaker 5: I'm fine, I'm long, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1: Uh No, I've always liked I liked this character and
Speaker 1: all the portrayals. She's really like interesting and smart and
Speaker 1: kind and sexy.
Speaker 4: And Joan Allen in this version Joan Allen a former
Speaker 4: nextern neighbor to my parents know.
Speaker 3: Kah played by.
Speaker 4: Emily Watson in Red Dragon and uh who's the name
Speaker 4: of the actress On Hannibals she was in True Blood,
Speaker 4: she was sicky best friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's really good.
Speaker 4: Tina Wesley Yeah, okay, now this scene coming up here, right,
Speaker 4: this is this is this is Francis Dollar had Like
Speaker 4: it's like it's super creepy. Everyone's like, you know, he's
Speaker 4: a serial killer and this this like blind woman he's
Speaker 4: taking a date. I have I could never in a
Speaker 4: billion years come up with a first date that is
Speaker 4: as good or as like low key erotic. A blind
Speaker 4: woman to go feel a tiger like a huge credit
Speaker 4: for him, how like pulling this out of the bag.
Speaker 4: I mean, how impressed would you be on a first
Speaker 4: date with anyone where you're like, I got a.
Speaker 3: Surprise for you.
Speaker 4: You're gonna go you can go hang out with a
Speaker 4: tiger and it's like under heavy sedation, fucking heed.
Speaker 3: That's cool. And this is a real tiger too, I
Speaker 3: mean incredible.
Speaker 1: It's just incredible to see.
Speaker 3: And it's just like it's so like low key erotic too.
Speaker 1: Well, the music definitely helps it.
Speaker 5: In the way that it's shot.
Speaker 3: Oh man, look at those Wow. No, this is this
Speaker 3: is the best first Daid ever portrayed in any.
Speaker 1: And we get to enjoy alongside too vicariously because I've
Speaker 1: never seen the tiger like that. He quite like that
Speaker 1: before either.
Speaker 3: M hm.
Speaker 5: That freaked me out a little bit.
Speaker 3: I'd want a lot of assurances it really was.
Speaker 1: We'll have to ask em if the tigers treated humanely here.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't want to get mad at this.
Speaker 1: Is like this entrance, sting moment of sweetness centered around
Speaker 1: this wild animal that could just rip you limb from limb,
Speaker 1: which is of course the perfect metaphor for this relationship
Speaker 1: to Francis and her mm hmm.
Speaker 3: What is the shirt he's wearing?
Speaker 2: I know it's like it is it laundry day or something.
Speaker 2: This guy has been dressed like uh like like actually
Speaker 2: like steampunk satan for the entire movie or something.
Speaker 5: And there it is.
Speaker 1: And I have to say, you know, I think William
Speaker 1: Blake owes a little bit of thanks and gratitude to
Speaker 1: Thomas Harris, Like he's moved a lot of products because
Speaker 1: of his conclusions. Like his apartment is just really nice
Speaker 1: and clean and laid out. There's nothing disorganized about it.
Speaker 1: Oh it's fucked up.
Speaker 3: Oh god, because he's blindly hot.
Speaker 9: Like mhm.
Speaker 2: Man, the the eight, the like Super eight home video
Speaker 2: footage is like really really effective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is like this is what movies do you.
Speaker 18: Yeah, they make you a horning in a very bad way.
Speaker 5: I love the editing choices here too.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised he doesn't push it off and just says
Speaker 1: like I kin'd of get my own thing going on
Speaker 1: right now, Like I'm.
Speaker 5: Good women, am I right?
Speaker 2: God, I'm trying to watch the movie.
Speaker 3: See everything is like Galaxy thems in his house.
Speaker 1: Song, so choice is so good when he drops the
Speaker 1: lyrical songs, yeah, he was fretting grace.
Speaker 3: He's like, I don't know what to do with my hands. Ye, praid.
Speaker 6: Yeah, like the movie really.
Speaker 4: Like this movie does really kind of like it does
Speaker 4: make you feel bad for in a way I really
Speaker 4: like or just like like the line like this is
Speaker 4: a very shy boy will like unlike for instance, like
Speaker 4: Buffalo Bill or or any other killers who are just
Speaker 4: you know, just kind of just straight monsters or like devians,
Speaker 4: Like there's something like very you see how damaged he
Speaker 4: is as a person, like or just sort of like
Speaker 4: his this I suppose his sensitive side or something. But
Speaker 4: like you feel intensely this this like this longing not
Speaker 4: to kill people, I guess, or like to connect with
Speaker 4: another person or something like he's not just purely terrifying,
Speaker 4: although he.
Speaker 1: Is as well.
Speaker 3: So that's that's what I like about this performance.
Speaker 4: It's like, like I said, that that softness, that quietness,
Speaker 4: that line about like I said, yeah, this is a
Speaker 4: shy boy, it's still so weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that this movie that kind of
Speaker 2: introduces you to the killer at an hour in, Like
Speaker 2: we did not see this actor before an hour in,
Speaker 2: which is wild to begin with, and then we like
Speaker 2: live with him for such a long time and like
Speaker 2: like you're saying, like not even in like the most
Speaker 2: hyper ominous scenes, Like it's such an interesting movie.
Speaker 1: And you could easily cut it up where it was
Speaker 1: more like evenly space where you see him much earlier
Speaker 1: and you see these scenes much earlier. But I do
Speaker 1: like the shift where it's like a two part you
Speaker 1: know movie and they think come together at the end.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but see the.
Speaker 1: Problem is Dollar High is getting distracted from his work,
Speaker 1: and that's a yes, yes, he needs to get back
Speaker 1: on the ball.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It's another amazing like glow and like Sun Sun Sun here.
Speaker 5: I'm sure they had like a fifteen minute window to
Speaker 5: shoot that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh, my god, I can't imagine.
Speaker 1: This, mister. Days when you could go outside, oh yeah.
Speaker 4: Pre COVID, you could just go with a stranger to
Speaker 4: feel a tiger and then have sex with them and
Speaker 4: don't worry about any of it, even if they are
Speaker 4: a serial killer.
Speaker 5: Just like we figured out he has a van.
Speaker 1: Okay, six months into the investigation. Mhm mhmm.
Speaker 3: Talk to hot singles in your prisons.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like he's like it's like like like girls
Speaker 4: chat with you're on your bed, like with your legs
Speaker 4: kicked off, you.
Speaker 3: Know, just like in his nails, doing your nails.
Speaker 1: That's pretty.
Speaker 4: Yah, Leslie does Garret Chicka, Hob's figure in the book
Speaker 4: Read Your Acting a Lot Today described as just like this,
Speaker 4: just as that, like it's just another guy.
Speaker 3: That he caught and killed.
Speaker 10: That's terrific.
Speaker 3: Hannibal was an early new atheist.
Speaker 1: Yeah really, you know, I really wish we could have
Speaker 1: seen that Hannibal and Hitchins tour. But then Hitchins got sick.
Speaker 5: I think that's if he's in Atlanta. I think that's
Speaker 5: the Sundial restaurant behind will I'm like trying to google it.
Speaker 5: It's this whole area of downtown that looks kind of
Speaker 5: like the Sun Dial.
Speaker 1: I like in this one, Will just as really annoyed
Speaker 1: by Lector mostly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he doesn't want to talk to him for like
Speaker 4: a second longer that he needs to, which is again realistic.
Speaker 1: Look, I hate to be just man though, but looking
Speaker 1: at kind of that like mant and in Tier Decoration,
Speaker 1: I kind of feel less sorry for the family. Now.
Speaker 3: I love that so creepy, so fucking creepy.
Speaker 2: That's like out of God. What's the second Michael Man
Speaker 2: movie that is so fucking weird?
Speaker 1: The Keep Keepah's kept that technique in his back pocket.
Speaker 2: I kind of like The Keep, but it is very weird.
Speaker 2: I actually love The Keep as a second movie for
Speaker 2: Michael Mann where he's like, you know what, let's make
Speaker 2: like a big sci fi thing and then he's like, okay,
Speaker 2: back to hyper realistic police stuff.
Speaker 1: Hick damn. That's what happens.
Speaker 14: Short as I am.
Speaker 1: Like he's already listened to the like this.
Speaker 4: I'm like really like intense acting here by Noonan, like
Speaker 4: the heartbreak and agony and just sort of like terror
Speaker 4: in his face.
Speaker 1: I like the little defects, but to show it, like,
Speaker 1: you know, like this is what you're seeing.
Speaker 3: I mean, they're making her look like the woman in
Speaker 3: The Blake. The Blake. Oh yeh.
Speaker 1: The rise and fall of that relationship happens a lot
Speaker 1: fast during this movie than the other things. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: he does the classic Tony Montana move where Tony Montava
Speaker 1: shoots his best friend because these the just fucking his
Speaker 1: sister as supposed to being married. I'm going back father,
Speaker 1: forgive me, I'm going back to the old me.
Speaker 3: All right. This is my favorite scene in the movie.
Speaker 7: Here, great shot.
Speaker 4: When like when like this montage is just like like
Speaker 4: not montage, like this monologue of just well figuring it
Speaker 4: out and like going toe to toe with asshole John Crawford.
Speaker 1: Like they got bars.
Speaker 2: Well sure, yeah, yeah, one does this, God does Yeah
Speaker 2: of course, yep.
Speaker 1: We got some bonus stuff.
Speaker 8: Here, bonus bonus feature.
Speaker 4: And like he gets all this because he's watching TV
Speaker 4: like he's watching the film.
Speaker 3: Just like Dollar High.
Speaker 4: It's like this repeated motif of like watching film and video.
Speaker 14: That's why I own this movie on DVD so I
Speaker 14: can watch.
Speaker 3: It over and over and over again.
Speaker 1: He's so pissed off, Like the fucking appleson that were
Speaker 1: using don't you have a whole lab team to figure
Speaker 1: this shit out.
Speaker 12: Mhm.
Speaker 1: I like to print out from the computers. The computer runs, Oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love this where he puts Jack in this
Speaker 4: place in a way Will Graham and Hugh Dancy never does.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, go as late as I want to take it, yea.
Speaker 5: And Jack Sultan.
Speaker 1: See this is just example of something like a really
Speaker 1: cool idea drifting down and becoming horrible. So Will Graham
Speaker 1: is supposed to be special, one of a kind genius.
Speaker 1: But every single cop and detective and every single like CSI,
Speaker 1: Lauren Order, et cetera, is exactly as like intuitive as Will.
Speaker 1: Now they all can just look at the videotape and
Speaker 1: figure it out them and all that shit.
Speaker 10: Yeah, shut up, don't you, my man?
Speaker 2: Hm hm m hm. Back to some work print stuff.
Speaker 5: Repeated lines that I guess we're cut for time. Yeah,
Speaker 5: odd choices like I have to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is funny that man is like I always
Speaker 2: wanted to repeat it always annoyed me.
Speaker 1: Because as so far as this point is to me,
Speaker 1: it's like why even bother doing the director's cut? But
Speaker 1: it's like he actually took the time and for some reason,
Speaker 1: these little things.
Speaker 2: Listen, I love I love a weird Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2: I like, I like I like a blade un big
Speaker 2: changed too. But I also like, I love a director
Speaker 2: that's just like I want five seconds back in I
Speaker 2: need the five seconds back.
Speaker 5: I get it.
Speaker 2: Also, like if you're editing a movie and someone's like,
Speaker 2: we need to lose that and you're like, I disagree.
Speaker 2: That sticks with you forever, Like there's still like sketch
Speaker 2: comedy that I'm like, that was bullshit. Actually that made
Speaker 2: me trim that part, Like.
Speaker 4: Again, uh, this is me, this is me, this is
Speaker 4: I think about myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I love it, like a an electric guitar,
Speaker 2: like just blaring as a man is like looking out
Speaker 2: the window, working as hard as he can work.
Speaker 19: Oh wow, yeah, this is.
Speaker 4: This is me.
Speaker 3: After I fire off a.
Speaker 5: Set your phone down.
Speaker 19: Yeah yeah cool.
Speaker 2: Wow. Back to our sort of the actual, like the
Speaker 2: love story of this movie.
Speaker 1: Since Hannibal and Will aren't really at close in this one,
Speaker 1: this is a love story. It is. I think it
Speaker 1: is a bit sadder and Red Dragon and the series
Speaker 1: because you see the relationship just go on longer and
Speaker 1: you see that dollar High actually is kind of like
Speaker 1: a good guy aside from the serial killing, this one
Speaker 1: is just like a like immediately flips on a switch.
Speaker 5: It just gets jealous, like the same like ye next day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with her. This song kind does suck.
Speaker 5: Mhm.
Speaker 2: So scary in a different way.
Speaker 5: We've all seen to Wait until Dark. I think it's
Speaker 5: called the Audrey Hepburn where she's blind and the Alan
Speaker 5: Arkin is like in her house trying to kill her.
Speaker 5: It's really good.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm. I wonder does this blow people's fucking minds.
Speaker 1: Phones on the airplane in nineteen eighty six, I think
Speaker 1: there's a fax machine at one point.
Speaker 4: All right, so you we got Frankie Faison, who is
Speaker 4: in both Sonslans. Hannibal is the orderly at the Baltimore
Speaker 4: Psychiatric Institute.
Speaker 1: I always liked that Hannibal was nice that character. And
Speaker 1: then fucking Clarice comes back and like takes the money
Speaker 1: that he made off of the stuff. They have a
Speaker 1: fucking cop ass move.
Speaker 3: They're like, yeah, it's him like a the data facts fast.
Speaker 3: It'll be downloading for the next thirty minutes.
Speaker 7: So good.
Speaker 2: Oh, I love the facts. The facts. The color facts
Speaker 2: looks very good. That is the bleeding edge, right, there
Speaker 2: the color facts.
Speaker 4: Only the FBI had that that actually was stolen from
Speaker 4: alien UFOs reverse engineered. Roswell Michael Man loves airplanes. To
Speaker 4: the great scene of Miami Vice or like they're flying
Speaker 4: the two planes next to each other, like to make
Speaker 4: one radar signature. Yeah, and then they just drop off
Speaker 4: to fly below the radar like level. It's a great
Speaker 4: shot of being on a jet and the insider two
Speaker 4: like the Mississippi like attorney general. They're talking to them
Speaker 4: on the phone.
Speaker 3: Great shot.
Speaker 1: I love the speed into the car. I love the
Speaker 1: speed from the flames playing into the car. It's so good.
Speaker 1: You cannot do that any faster.
Speaker 5: Ooh, that's a great shot.
Speaker 1: Well will you think of inn a guy of the Veda.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's not a song I would listen to,
Speaker 4: like you know, on my own, but as far as
Speaker 4: in this scene the scene movie, it's chairs. Yeah, Sandon,
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right about his breakfast nook. It's pretty incredible stuff, beautiful.
Speaker 2: So fucked, so tense.
Speaker 5: Jesus in the house, people keep talking back. First women,
Speaker 5: now it's his coworkers.
Speaker 1: You you don't need said, no f guy ever, just.
Speaker 3: Leaving them in the car it's fine, Okay, they got
Speaker 3: these sweet dumb.
Speaker 5: Dumb dumbs.
Speaker 9: Mhm h.
Speaker 12: Oh.
Speaker 3: I drive into a dish.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 7: The half is.
Speaker 5: These are bath.
Speaker 4: They've driven into another dish. A little troather down the road.
Speaker 1: This is so good. This is how you hung a man.
Speaker 8: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: And we're back in the forest in a full suit.
Speaker 5: This is nighttime.
Speaker 1: C Yeah, like you just take it. Will just continues
Speaker 1: to take it.
Speaker 3: I can't quite make out what's going on. Another amazing shirt.
Speaker 3: Noonon's got rocking red here. It looks like someone made
Speaker 3: a shirt out of like the joy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's sweating.
Speaker 1: Now he's in this situation again.
Speaker 4: Yeah, stop it a little louder, dude.
Speaker 3: I love this. It's no plan at all to be
Speaker 3: fair with to be fair. Will was never like the
Speaker 3: FBI is like, you know, guy, But.
Speaker 1: It feels felt to me like he was imagining what
Speaker 1: he would do in this situation. He was like, oh
Speaker 1: I fucking gut it right now, stop it.
Speaker 7: I love that.
Speaker 3: So good.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, just oh yeah.
Speaker 3: Just straight through the.
Speaker 4: There we go, and then right into his hands. He
Speaker 4: just grabs him and then he just slashes his face
Speaker 4: like oh.
Speaker 3: Just oh my god. He just man handles him.
Speaker 1: Oh he just fucking wasted.
Speaker 2: It is not a very good plan. He jumps through
Speaker 2: glass and then gets the ship out. Oh my god, damn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because in this dollar high is like seven feet tall.
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be. Oh wow, so cool.
Speaker 2: I like the little.
Speaker 6: Mini slow mo.
Speaker 3: No, they even shows brains.
Speaker 1: Getting out of the bag.
Speaker 3: Fuck me, it's just fucking cop hol Well.
Speaker 5: I just walk into his line of fire.
Speaker 4: I think this hole, this this last sequence here in
Speaker 4: the house, I think, like Michael Man, I think actually
Speaker 4: filmed this all himself in like a day, or or
Speaker 4: just in one night because they had totally run out
Speaker 4: of money or something like that.
Speaker 1: But it turned out perfect.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I like that.
Speaker 4: He's just using that shotgun like a pistol one handed.
Speaker 4: By the way, the FBI guy who gave him this
Speaker 4: gun and bullets was lying about how one shot.
Speaker 5: That kind of didn't look that bad all things considered.
Speaker 4: H just the best collection of just skies in this film.
Speaker 1: Cops absolutely fucking useless, stepping all around the jack not
Speaker 1: even there. Where is the back even at right now?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's Jack Crawford. He's like, what.
Speaker 11: I sorry, M.
Speaker 1: One thing this movie does differently, And I think most
Speaker 1: of this stuff doesn't do dollar high doesn't kill a
Speaker 1: dude a killing in the of the families during the film,
Speaker 1: it's just like at the beginning, most of them they
Speaker 1: will like show as a family shows him haunting. Damn.
Speaker 4: This part is totally new to me. This is like
Speaker 4: very director I've never seen this part.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what's mh what what in the world?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Really, Oh, this is the new ending. Yeah, this
Speaker 2: is the director's cut ending. There's a very slight, weird
Speaker 2: different ending.
Speaker 20: Oh, this is the family he would have go, wow,
Speaker 20: freaking It is a weird scene.
Speaker 5: It is weird interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right, well see you later.
Speaker 3: Can your heartbeat?
Speaker 6: There we go?
Speaker 4: There we go? Yeah, now it's back. Yeah yeah, I
Speaker 4: can odd choice.
Speaker 10: Then.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting to me.
Speaker 4: It's like because it's like he sort of is like, yeah,
Speaker 4: it's him using psychology.
Speaker 3: He's like he didn't like.
Speaker 1: Did he go out and jerk golf? Like after that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, He's like, I've been fantasizing about killing you and
Speaker 4: your family for the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 3: I need to get out of my system. If you
Speaker 3: don't mind, did I take a look around your house?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Michael, I think you were right about that.
Speaker 1: You should have put that in. They should let you
Speaker 1: keep that in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, sure, that's right. Those are backing sound now.
Speaker 5: That she's wearing full like women pants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Because I always thought the ending of this was
Speaker 1: so celebratory and eighties and kind of pure in a
Speaker 1: way that surprised me for Michael Man, and so that
Speaker 1: extra scene kind of like darkens it slightly a little bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I like the way it changes the town and it's
Speaker 5: super weird.
Speaker 1: Instead of just the heartbeat song and him kissing his wife.
Speaker 1: It's like a little bit.
Speaker 2: Wow, done with the job, back to the wife, back
Speaker 2: to the beach. He should go back to the same log.
Speaker 2: He should go back to the same log at the
Speaker 2: beginning and go back to repose until the next mind.
Speaker 3: Lifestyle. It's just Marville. He's in paradise that all the
Speaker 3: evil people have been taking.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a scene of the son's bedroom and there's
Speaker 1: like a cat tied up in it or something like
Speaker 1: that edition.
Speaker 2: But yeah, Man, yeah, good ship, that's a that's a
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: That's a man hunt, you know it. It's so hard
Speaker 1: to rank any of the adaptations I think Hannibal the
Speaker 1: TV series is still my favorite. But if I'm talking
Speaker 1: about what's number two, you know, it depends on the
Speaker 1: day of the week. But like sometimes my Manhunter is
Speaker 1: my favorite, you know, some more than Sounds of the
Speaker 1: Lambs after Hannibal, of course.
Speaker 4: And they're they're very hard to compare their they're they're
Speaker 4: two vastly different movies, but I mean they're they're both
Speaker 4: Like I said, I think they're both masterpieces.
Speaker 3: But like I agree with you, it's just sort of
Speaker 3: day of the week, whatever I'm feeling.
Speaker 4: But Manhunter definitely deserves to be in the conversation. Like
Speaker 4: anyone who would just flatly say, like, the Sounds of
Speaker 4: the Lambs is like easily better.
Speaker 3: In my opinion, sham.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 5: I think I'd have to rewatch Sounds of the Lambs
Speaker 5: because this movie is a lot more like artful in
Speaker 5: its presentation and so much more subtle. But then it's
Speaker 5: just kind of apples and oranges, because Sounds the Lambs
Speaker 5: also has so many just like at least in my
Speaker 5: like film memory, deeply embedded iconic scenes.
Speaker 21: Oh yeah, definitely, they're both just such like you know,
Speaker 21: exemplar pieces of like the kind of like decade of film,
Speaker 21: you know what I mean, Like Sounds of Lambs, even
Speaker 21: though it is.
Speaker 2: Like a ninety one movie, it's like so yeah movie,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And this is like so
Speaker 2: eighties of a movie. It's like, I don't know. It's
Speaker 2: like it just depends on what kind of like mood
Speaker 2: I'm in. If I like the kind of like glossy
Speaker 2: you know, like you know, like glossily lit nineties movies
Speaker 2: or this kind of like eighties thing, Like they're both,
Speaker 2: they're both pinnacle pieces.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's basically like it's just yeah, my mood is
Speaker 4: either I want to see the color blue, and that's
Speaker 4: what I'll decide, folks.
Speaker 1: That was our commentary. Will thank you so much for joining,
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming pleasure. Can people find you.
Speaker 4: At Willmenica on Twitter and the podcast is Choppo shrap House.
Speaker 1: All right, folks, thank you so much for listening. Have
Speaker 1: a good one, peace
Speaker 7: Later, Thank you every bye