Speaker 1: It's nice Eyes Ray.
Speaker 2: Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 3: Ohay, welcome back everyone. Thanks very miss Dan Watkins. My
Speaker 3: name's Dan Ray. I'm the host of Nightside. Not to
Speaker 3: be confused with Dan Watkins, the news guy you just heard.
Speaker 3: We get a couple of Dans here at the station.
Speaker 3: I've been here for a while and before that at WBCTV.
Speaker 3: You might remember me from TV Days and well, we're
Speaker 3: getting pretty close to finishing up year seventeen here on
Speaker 3: WBC Radio. So we are going to talk about a
Speaker 3: subject that is I think incredibly important to the city
Speaker 3: of Boston, and that is adequate police staffing with us.
Speaker 3: As Larry called Rone, he's the president of the Boston
Speaker 3: Police Patrolmans Association. Larry, we have talked about this issue before.
Speaker 3: The police Department tells me today that they're making some
Speaker 3: progress on this. I have a statement from them that
Speaker 3: I can share with you. But where do we stand
Speaker 3: at this point in terms of police presence in Boston.
Speaker 3: You go to New York, Yorks, a much bigger city.
Speaker 3: They have a much bigger police department. I think they
Speaker 3: have forty thousand police officers in New York or some
Speaker 3: figure like that. But where do we stand in Boston
Speaker 3: because the police are there, but they're not as visible
Speaker 3: as they are in a lot of other cities.
Speaker 2: Well, you have that absolutely right, and I'd love to
Speaker 2: hear the statement that came from the department hierarchy. I'm
Speaker 2: sure you're going to share that with us before this
Speaker 2: night's over. But you just take a look around before
Speaker 2: you even tell me, I'll say my piece. Take a
Speaker 2: look around your neighborhoods. Look when you're driving down the street,
Speaker 2: do you ever see a police officer out there? The
Speaker 2: police officers you see are the men and women that
Speaker 2: are going by you with their licens iiring on going
Speaker 2: from one call to the next call. The department is
Speaker 2: running below minimum staffing. They can't keep up with the
Speaker 2: amount of bodies that we need, especially through the weekend hours.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have some information that I that I
Speaker 2: want to share Again. It's I almost feel like every
Speaker 2: time we're here, we're saying something negative about about the
Speaker 2: department staff in levels. But a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 2: when you see the department finally coming out and admitting
Speaker 2: publicly that they've identified two hundred and fifty nine police
Speaker 2: officer positions that are vacant and available that they need immediately.
Speaker 2: That real number is around four hundred. Everybody knows it.
Speaker 2: If they're identifying in two fifty nine, that is an
Speaker 2: absolute minimum that they think they need to get to
Speaker 2: their minimum staff in levels, and we just can't get them.
Speaker 2: We can't get the good candidates, you know, the residency.
Speaker 2: The residency issue here in Boston. I know it was
Speaker 2: needed at one time. It's in archaic system that we've
Speaker 2: been running with now for the better half of two
Speaker 2: and a half decades, and it's actually hurting the City
Speaker 2: of Boston. On I suppose I can say that's one
Speaker 2: side of the coin. Somebody will call in and tell
Speaker 2: you it's absolutely needed. I'm sure for different reasons we
Speaker 2: could argue both. But when we're talking about recruiting police
Speaker 2: officer candidate, we just can't get them. The Commissioner is
Speaker 2: saying it, and I'm saying it.
Speaker 3: Well, my understanding is that there was a real effort
Speaker 3: I think it was about a year ago, or maybe
Speaker 3: it was somewhere around a year ago, where the City
Speaker 3: of Boston basically appealed to police officers in other communities
Speaker 3: and recommended or proposed that they could transfer laterally from
Speaker 3: wherever you know, Brookline or Pittsfield or Springfield or Lowell
Speaker 3: or wherever becoming to Boston. And my understanding that that effort,
Speaker 3: and I think it was about a year ago, only
Speaker 3: produced three new police officers, and that the vast majority
Speaker 3: of those police officers from other communities who were willing
Speaker 3: to come to Boston and wanted maybe the idea to
Speaker 3: be in the big leagues because you play for the
Speaker 3: Red Sox and the Big Leagues you work as a
Speaker 3: Boston police officer. Not to diminish what goes on in
Speaker 3: other departments around the state, but that is it the
Speaker 3: vast majority of them who decided to withdraw their applications
Speaker 3: or chose not to actually apply. We're concerned over the
Speaker 3: requirement that they would have to move into Boston and
Speaker 3: live for ten years within the city.
Speaker 2: Well, concerned is a nice way for you to say that.
Speaker 2: I'll say it a little bit more directly. Yes, we
Speaker 2: had about sixty candidates, fully trained, fully post certified police
Speaker 2: officers that came to an open house briefing by the
Speaker 2: Department for Lateral Transfers, and a little over fifty got
Speaker 2: up mid conversation because the answers coming from the department
Speaker 2: were you had to be a resident of the city
Speaker 2: of Boston, you had to move into the city.
Speaker 4: And look, let's face it.
Speaker 2: Men and women that have families that are in different
Speaker 2: school systems, that have friends situated, mortgages that are already
Speaker 2: a third or half the way into They're not going
Speaker 2: to uproot their families and move to the most expensive
Speaker 2: city in Massachusetts where the median house price is well
Speaker 2: up at eight and nine h grede thousand dollars or more.
Speaker 2: It's just not going to happen. And I'm hopping right
Speaker 2: away on the residency issue, not because I'm trying to
Speaker 2: get rid of it in a totality. What I'm trying
Speaker 2: to do is gain some attention from our elected officials
Speaker 2: stand that we need to be treated just like the
Speaker 2: nine to one one operators in the police department. When
Speaker 2: they did their contract just a year ago, there was
Speaker 2: a waiver system for residency requirement until the police department,
Speaker 2: the Boston Police Department acquired enough nine one one operators
Speaker 2: to meet the minimum staffing. Now they won't offer that
Speaker 2: to future police officers. My question is why I've asked
Speaker 2: the city councilors why our streets right now are less
Speaker 2: safe than they were a year ago. And I know
Speaker 2: it's not popular for me to say that. I'm not
Speaker 2: trying to scare anybody, but we had a police officer
Speaker 2: struck by a vehicle a week ago. We had a
Speaker 2: police officer today that was extremely injured by a dump
Speaker 2: truck on a private detail, but yet on a public roadway.
Speaker 3: By the way, Larry, if you could share with us,
Speaker 3: and again I am I don't want to impinge on
Speaker 3: his or her privacy, but I'm just curious. The reports
Speaker 3: are that this officer was injured, but he will survive.
Speaker 3: Is that correct? Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, well, we very strongly believe that he will survive.
Speaker 2: He is recovering, he's doing as well as can be.
Speaker 2: I'm going to respect his family and his wishes as well.
Speaker 2: But we thank everybody for the quick response, the calls
Speaker 2: and the concerns that we've been getting from friends, family,
Speaker 2: neighbors and just citizens that we run into throughout the
Speaker 2: afternoon today. So we thank everybody for that. But you know,
Speaker 2: I know I'm going to jump now from police officers
Speaker 2: answer to nine to one calls, but public safety details,
Speaker 2: that's where you see police officers on the street. The
Speaker 2: officers that you see in the middle of the roadway,
Speaker 2: that that's somebody performing a private a privately paid public
Speaker 2: safety detail for what reason, for the exact reason that
Speaker 2: happened to our officer. Today, we can't have a family
Speaker 2: of six or eight, or people visiting from out of
Speaker 2: state in Boston getting struck by cars, getting hit by
Speaker 2: dump trucks, by getting knocked into construction zone holes like
Speaker 2: we had a couple of years ago on Congress Street.
Speaker 4: There is a.
Speaker 2: Reason why police offices are required at construction sites in Massachusetts,
Speaker 2: and this is a prime example of one, and that's
Speaker 2: when you see them Dan.
Speaker 3: It also emphasizes that there are very few jobs in
Speaker 3: the world, and certainly very few in Boston, where you
Speaker 3: leave your house in the morning and you have no
Speaker 3: idea what you're going to face that day. Most of us,
Speaker 3: the worst thing we face is a boss who's mad
Speaker 3: at us, or some equipment that doesn't work, or some
Speaker 3: appointments that are canceled and missed. But we're not out
Speaker 3: there facing people with knives and guns or in mental
Speaker 3: distressful situations where officers can be badly injured, as even
Speaker 3: on a detail. And that's The other thing that I
Speaker 3: think is so important to emphasize to people who might say, well,
Speaker 3: these guys they make too much money, and you know,
Speaker 3: they don't want to live in the city, and you
Speaker 3: know all the all the and nobody's happy. The only
Speaker 3: time people are happy with a police officer is when
Speaker 3: they need a police officer.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you have that right.
Speaker 2: And there's there's a lot of reasons that I can
Speaker 2: point about. The salaries that the Globe was just printing
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks back. They were talking about an
Speaker 2: eighty eight million dollar overtime budget.
Speaker 1: Tom.
Speaker 2: That's our topic tonight. We are extremely understaffed. I'm going
Speaker 2: to give you some numbers if and when you want them.
Speaker 3: But let me we're going to we've got to take
Speaker 3: a break. I want to come back. I certainly am
Speaker 3: going to read to you the statement from There's probably
Speaker 3: no surprise there, but I want to make sure that
Speaker 3: we we're looking to have Commissioner Cocks come on. We've
Speaker 3: had that invitation out to him now since last fall.
Speaker 3: I can understand that the Commission is pretty busy, but
Speaker 3: I'd love to have him come on some night and
Speaker 3: answer questions of citizens in Boston. But that's a story
Speaker 3: for I'll deal that out with my good friend maryell
Speaker 3: and Burns at some point, and I'm sure it will happen.
Speaker 3: But in the meantime, I do have a statement from
Speaker 3: mauryel and Burns, a former colleague of mine at Channel four,
Speaker 3: who's now her position is the chief of Internet and
Speaker 3: External internal and external Communications. The Boston Police Department. Talked
Speaker 3: with her this afternoon and we'll be back if you're
Speaker 3: out there and you'd like to join the conversation with
Speaker 3: Larry Callderone, the head of the Boston Police Patrolman's Association,
Speaker 3: the president of that group that represents I don't know,
Speaker 3: fifteen sixteen hundred police officer in Boston. We'll nail that
Speaker 3: down with Larry. On the other side, we'll have some
Speaker 3: numbers for you and we'll have some good conversation. Feel
Speaker 3: free to join us on night side. Six one seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 3: ten thirty is the number everyone knows, and then the
Speaker 3: other line, which some people know, some people don't. Six one, seven,
Speaker 3: nine three one ten thirty Back on night Side right
Speaker 3: after this.
Speaker 2: Now back to Dan Ray the Window World night Sight
Speaker 2: Studios on WBZ News.
Speaker 3: Radio with me as the president of the Boston Police
Speaker 3: Patrolman's Association, Larry called Rome. Let's go to some numbers first, Larry,
Speaker 3: right now, your membership that you represent of the Boston
Speaker 3: Police Department, approximately how many members?
Speaker 2: Approximately sixteen hundred men and women answering the calls for
Speaker 2: service in the now.
Speaker 3: Apart from those sixteen hundred men and women, those are
Speaker 3: all people who are below the ranks of sergeant or
Speaker 3: do you russo represent upwards what I would call the NCOs?
Speaker 2: I know those are strictly patrol offices, that is, the
Speaker 2: rank and file out on the street answering those calls
Speaker 2: for service. It does not include the supervisors or detectives.
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's assume we add in supervisors, detectives, and
Speaker 3: command staff. What's the balance, forget the administrative staff. What
Speaker 3: is the balance of the entire department in terms of numbers,
Speaker 3: which would include everyone from the commissioner run down to
Speaker 3: the newest recruit.
Speaker 2: While the last numbers that I knew DAN were somewhere
Speaker 2: approximately around the twenty excuse me, the two thousand to
Speaker 2: the twenty one hundred number, and I don't know if
Speaker 2: those numbers are including non sworn personnel. You know staff,
Speaker 2: administrative staff or not. I can only absolutely verify the
Speaker 2: members in my membership.
Speaker 3: Okay, So those are the numbers as of today. And
Speaker 3: if you compare those numbers to a larger city like
Speaker 3: New York or Chicago or Los Angeles, or even a
Speaker 3: comparable city like a Baltimore, which I think is a
Speaker 3: comparable in terms of size, where do we stand on
Speaker 3: that sort of spectrum?
Speaker 2: Would you say, I almost have to control of my
Speaker 2: left that, Dan, I'm going to refer back to an
Speaker 2: ordinance from nineteen seventy nine and go way back when
Speaker 2: there is an ordinance file that requires even though the
Speaker 2: department never does it or the city leadership, but it
Speaker 2: requires twenty five hundred uniform police officers. Twenty five hundred.
Speaker 2: We don't even have that in the totality of everyone
Speaker 2: in the department, of every rank, never mind's want police
Speaker 2: officer's answer and the calls for service. And you think
Speaker 2: about the amount of increase in population for city residents
Speaker 2: today compared to nineteen seventy nine, I mean, it's it's laughable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were down around six hundred thousand, if I'm
Speaker 3: not mistaken at that point in time.
Speaker 2: Yes, and currently We're up somewhere around seven hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty to eight hundred thousand the last time we were looking, So.
Speaker 3: That's a thirty percent increase. Okay, So here's the statement
Speaker 3: from Mary ellen Burns.
Speaker 2: Day I can I and I apologize I came right
Speaker 2: out of the box on fire at nine o'clock. Is
Speaker 2: that we had a very busy day. I'd be remiss
Speaker 2: if I didn't thank the men and women of all
Speaker 2: ranks throughout the entire department, including our civilian staff, from
Speaker 2: the Commissioner all the way through. You know that they
Speaker 2: work our day in and day out. Everybody's putting in
Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of hours. So I don't want to
Speaker 2: lose sight of the fact that we are working as
Speaker 2: it's game as a whole, around the clock. So I
Speaker 2: want to say thank you to them and you and I.
Speaker 2: We have a very avid listener, supporter of your show,
Speaker 2: of what you do every day, and a supporter of
Speaker 2: police officers around the Commonweald. Her name is Joan Giannino.
Speaker 2: She is she has been listening to your show for decades.
Speaker 2: It's the nice way I'm going to say it. She
Speaker 2: is the mother of state Representative Jessica Giannino, who is
Speaker 2: a very strong supporter of first responders, police fire EMTs.
Speaker 2: She's the state rep outier there doing a tremendous job
Speaker 2: since being elected up on Beacon Hill, so I know
Speaker 2: she listens every night. I know both her and Mom
Speaker 2: take the opportunity when they can to be together to
Speaker 2: listen to your show. So hopefully she's listening because I
Speaker 2: want to say thank you to the both of them.
Speaker 3: No, I have a new favorite state representative now.
Speaker 2: My boss reps are going to be upset at that one,
Speaker 2: but they're great too. But Jessica, Jessica has really been
Speaker 2: a strong vocal voice for all first responders, especially police officers,
Speaker 2: So I want to say thank you to her and
Speaker 2: Mom as well.
Speaker 3: That's great. Now we got the good stuff out of
Speaker 3: the way. Now we'll go to what the city's saying.
Speaker 3: So the city saying that Mayor Woohren Commissioner cogs have
Speaker 3: highly prioritized the recruitment of sworn officers. Large diverse classes
Speaker 3: of officers have put on each year since two thousand
Speaker 3: and two. Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yes, that is correct?
Speaker 3: Okay, another will graduate this fall. Correct, that is correct?
Speaker 3: And two more slated to graduate in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Approximately five hundred candidates who took the most recent mass
Speaker 3: Civil service Exam attended in orientation session last week. I
Speaker 3: assume that's correct.
Speaker 2: It's funny you didn't ask me correct on those other
Speaker 2: two classes, so I have no knowledge. I cannot verify
Speaker 2: that there are one or two classes there will be
Speaker 2: graduating next year.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: My understanding, at least from what I saw in the
Speaker 2: department is they did transfer it a handful of detectives
Speaker 2: to two recruit investigations, which they normally do to stop
Speaker 2: background checks. So I will agree that something is in
Speaker 2: the work. I just don't know those numbers down.
Speaker 3: Okay. So then the police Spokesperson's Day writes, approximately five
Speaker 3: hundred candidates, now that's not officers the most recent mass
Speaker 3: Civil Service Exam attended an orientation session last week. We
Speaker 3: returned this weekend for interviews and next steps closer to
Speaker 3: becoming part of the BPD.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 3: I don't know if those people are included in the
Speaker 3: previous references, but we'll let that go. These large numbers
Speaker 3: were the result of an intentional recruitment effort by the
Speaker 3: BPD to not only increase numbers of new officers, but
Speaker 3: to ensure that they reflect the residents we serve. Our
Speaker 3: officers are dedicated to our mission of community policing, and
Speaker 3: they are very well trained. Their great work continues to
Speaker 3: make Boston one of the safest major cities in the country.
Speaker 3: All of that, you know, we we support and we
Speaker 3: agree with. Obviously you're concerned is the I assume that
Speaker 3: that part of the problem is not only the entrance
Speaker 3: to the department, but also the end of the pipeline.
Speaker 3: How many officers every year now are retiring. These would
Speaker 3: be police officers who came on anytime in the early
Speaker 3: nineteen nineties. They're all hitting thirty years at this point, right.
Speaker 3: I mean, if one in in nineteen ninety four, you're
Speaker 3: celebrating thirty years as a Boston Police officer. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, you know, Dan, I as well as you,
Speaker 2: I have a found respect for Mary ellen Burns. So
Speaker 2: when I say this, it's not to tan of hearn anyway.
Speaker 2: But if I had my media guru, Jamie Kinneely, sit
Speaker 2: down and write a statement, it would sound it would
Speaker 2: sound great and fabulous, just like that. It would talk
Speaker 2: about all the things that we do from a union standpoint,
Speaker 2: to help the department and the citizens of Boston, and
Speaker 2: it all be true. So her statements, yes, they are true.
Speaker 2: The department did hire one hundred and twenty five last year,
Speaker 2: another one hundred this year. They probably are looking to
Speaker 2: hire next year. But what's missing in those statements is
Speaker 2: a year ago, we hired one hundred and twenty five
Speaker 2: and we lost one hundred and ten plus another twenty
Speaker 2: odd bodies to the fire department. Just recently, we graduated
Speaker 2: another one hundred and one hundred, one hundred and ten
Speaker 2: police officers in Our attrition rate that year was ninety seven,
Speaker 2: so we're netting thirty bodies at a time. So when
Speaker 2: a statement comes out like that, a written statement to
Speaker 2: say that, hey, we hired two hundred and fifty in
Speaker 2: the last few years, the neglected to tell the general
Speaker 2: population that the net count was more likely fifty or
Speaker 2: sixty bodies, Which is why we doubled our forty four
Speaker 2: million dollar overtime budget the budget that were actually granted
Speaker 2: to eighty eight million this past fiscal year. Because we
Speaker 2: don't have the bodies to put on the street. We're
Speaker 2: taking we're taking band aids and putting it over the
Speaker 2: gaping wounds that we have in the department, and we're
Speaker 2: sugar coated for good reason. We don't want to scare
Speaker 2: the general public. But the reality is, I'm men and
Speaker 2: women are being ordered eighty ninety hours a week. Last
Speaker 2: just a couple of weeks ago, we had an eleven
Speaker 2: year old that was shot at a party. Seven people
Speaker 2: were shot, one was eleven year old, two of my
Speaker 2: belief passed, and just a couple of nights later, one
Speaker 2: of the stations very close to ran ran the midnight
Speaker 2: shift with six bodies on the street, half of what
Speaker 2: the minimum internal staffing level is. That is completely unsafe.
Speaker 3: It is, well, it's unsafe for the officers, Larry, but
Speaker 3: it's also unsafe for the public. Yes, if you're making
Speaker 3: all the chances of someone getting there in a timely
Speaker 3: fashion or heck, a watt left less when the when
Speaker 3: the staffing is fifty percent of what should be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Dan, you have an incident like the police
Speaker 2: officer that was that was struck by the car just
Speaker 2: last week, they call out, as you know, what's called
Speaker 2: the emergency deployment teams. That is two to three offices
Speaker 2: from every station in the city on that shift. So
Speaker 2: if we have a major incident and they take two
Speaker 2: or three bodies from a station that's only operating with
Speaker 2: six or eight on the street. You're now you're down
Speaker 2: to thirty thirty five percent capacity, And people should be
Speaker 2: worried about that. Taxpayers should be concerned, and they should
Speaker 2: be outraged that they're not being told the truth and
Speaker 2: that their men and women in uniform are being way overworked.
Speaker 2: I mean, from what I understand, the supervisor made a
Speaker 2: good call. I and I agree with that supervisor. They
Speaker 2: didn't order a third shift, they didn't order a police
Speaker 2: officer to work twenty four hours that night because it
Speaker 2: was unsafe for them in the public, but yet they
Speaker 2: ran at half staff. Now, when you talk to Mary
Speaker 2: ellen Burns or anybody in the command staff, I'm sure
Speaker 2: they're going to tell you we don't have minimum staffing levels.
Speaker 2: We absolutely do. And I understand why they don't want
Speaker 2: to tell the general public any given time, date, or
Speaker 2: specific station what those levels are, because public safety is
Speaker 2: important and we should keep the upper hand. I've been
Speaker 2: doing this for thirty years myself. But what we're putting
Speaker 2: off says in the general public at risk. That's where
Speaker 2: I'm gonna draw the line. And that's where I'm gonna
Speaker 2: come on this show and say so, Dan.
Speaker 3: Guess Larry cal Larone, he's the president of the Boston
Speaker 3: Police Patrolmans Association. We're gonna go to phone calls right
Speaker 3: after the break. I'm sure Larry has more to say,
Speaker 3: but I'd like to get some questions from both police officers,
Speaker 3: family members of police officers, as well as citizens of
Speaker 3: Boston or elsewhere. This is important, particularly if you either
Speaker 3: live in Boston or visit this great city. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 3: ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty
Speaker 3: to phone calls right after this news break.
Speaker 2: It's Night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 3: My guest is Larry Calarone. He's the president of the
Speaker 3: Boston Police Patrolmans Association. So let's get to phone calls. Larry,
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's probably some other things you want to cite,
Speaker 3: but let's let's let's incorporate some callers into the control.
Speaker 2: Absolutely all right, Great.
Speaker 3: Here we go. Let's go to Dave up in New
Speaker 3: Hampshire day first tonight here on Side with Larry called
Speaker 3: Arome go ahead.
Speaker 6: Dave, Yeah, thank you for taking citizens phone calls. I
Speaker 6: got to ask if you have if there's not security
Speaker 6: in bostments, it's not if the DPD is not able
Speaker 6: to you know, keep Boston safe, then I have a
Speaker 6: suggested solution.
Speaker 5: Can you just by the way, just.
Speaker 3: For just for clarification date. I don't think that's what
Speaker 3: Larry said. I don't think he's saying they can't keep
Speaker 3: Boston safe. I think he feels that they need me
Speaker 3: more resources not only to keep the city safe, but
Speaker 3: to cut back on the amount of forced overtime that
Speaker 3: police officers have to work, which is potentially dangerous for
Speaker 3: them as well as citizens. Go ahead, Dave, you know,
Speaker 3: with that premise clarified, what's your question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, police departments have discretion in who they arrest, So
Speaker 1: can't you exercise your discretion to make fewer arrests for
Speaker 1: victimless crime laws like carrying a firearm in Boston without
Speaker 1: a license or drivers.
Speaker 3: Or it's a pretty serious crime. I would think let's
Speaker 3: get Larry's response to the so called victimless crimes. Marijuana
Speaker 3: possession is no longer a crime, you know that, Dave.
Speaker 3: But carrying an unlicensed firearm I believe is an arrestable offense. Larry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Dave. First off, thanks for taking the
Speaker 2: time to call and to listen into the show, because
Speaker 2: it's an important topic and I'm not buying any way,
Speaker 2: shape or form saying that Boston it's not safe. We
Speaker 2: are one of these safest cities in America, and it's
Speaker 2: because of the hard work that the men and women
Speaker 2: in the police department do day in and day out.
Speaker 2: What I'm complaining about, and when i want to make
Speaker 2: sure that I'm stressing to everyone that's listening, is that
Speaker 2: we are concerned not only about protecting the citizens of
Speaker 2: Boston and our visitors, We're concerned about the health of
Speaker 2: safety and the mental wellness mental wellness of our officers
Speaker 2: in general. No one should work twenty four hours a day.
Speaker 2: No one should work ninety or one hundred hours a week.
Speaker 2: That is what my membership is being faced with week
Speaker 2: after week after week. It's unsafe. It's unsafe for everybody,
Speaker 2: but especially a police officer. So that's what we're stressing
Speaker 2: over here. As far as victimless crimes, I'd like to
Speaker 2: suggest that and then I'm going to show my age here, Dave.
Speaker 2: But William Bratton, I don't know if you know former
Speaker 2: commissioner here in New York LA very well respected as
Speaker 2: a law enforcement guru. When he came to Boston thirty
Speaker 2: years ago, he touted a book called Broken Windows. I
Speaker 2: would ask you to read it and then if you
Speaker 2: want police, call me at the Boston Police Patrolman's Union
Speaker 2: Hall and we can discuss it. Because it's exactly what
Speaker 2: we're talking about. Simple. What you would say is a
Speaker 2: victimless crime. The victim is actually the people that live
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood. The people are the citizens of Boston.
Speaker 2: We don't want unlicensed gun owners walking around. We don't
Speaker 2: want shoplifters stealing out of the store, preventing from mom
Speaker 2: and pops to us from making a living. We don't
Speaker 2: want crime in the city of Boston of any nature.
Speaker 2: And as police officers, we are going to uphold the law.
Speaker 2: But please read that book and if you want to
Speaker 2: discuss it, I'm always available to do so.
Speaker 1: You're going to follow up question Dave, No, thank you
Speaker 1: for the transparency.
Speaker 3: All right, You're more than welcome, appreciate your call. Good question,
Speaker 3: and I understand the question. You know where Dave is
Speaker 3: coming from on that question. Let me go next to
Speaker 3: Joe and Boston. Joe, you next on Nightside.
Speaker 7: Welcome, Hey Dan, thanks taking my call. Matth and Cast
Speaker 7: is being picked up again when the mayor first go
Speaker 7: like that, she's going to clean it up. She didn't
Speaker 7: get the tenth out last year. But it's worth now
Speaker 7: than it's ever been. The table was never the best
Speaker 7: area in the city. Wasn't Beacon Hill, but you could
Speaker 7: always walk through that neighborhood. You couldn't walk through that
Speaker 7: year right now without get an assault or whatever. Is
Speaker 7: there anything we see that the Bible can do about.
Speaker 4: That, Pete?
Speaker 2: Thanks for calling mass and Cast. Big concern of our membership,
Speaker 2: of everybody that resides comes through in business Boston as
Speaker 2: well as well as our elected officials and the police Commission.
Speaker 2: I'm going to give them kudos to here, Pete. But
Speaker 2: I I myself actually was there this past Saturday morning.
Speaker 2: I was down there because we have police officers stationed
Speaker 2: at various locations surrounding massing Casts. We have them there
Speaker 2: around the clock, and I was down having conversations about
Speaker 2: are we still being effective, what can we do better?
Speaker 5: Etc.
Speaker 2: But the problem really lies in bodies the offices that
Speaker 2: are down there. They're down there on overtime. They're filling
Speaker 2: those ships around the clock. Like I said, on overtime
Speaker 2: and the minute ware in the police about we are
Speaker 2: making a difference. Not only for the people that do
Speaker 2: need our assistance, that be in the mass and cast occupiers.
Speaker 2: I guess I would say they need assistance and we're
Speaker 2: providing along with other mental health professionals, but so do
Speaker 2: the surrounding communities, the residents and the store owners. And
Speaker 2: we just don't have enough police officers to go around.
Speaker 2: And that's one of the things that we're talking about here, Pete.
Speaker 2: So I appreciate your concern and you're calling in.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks you, Joe, appreciate your calling. Let's get
Speaker 3: another one here before the break. Let me go to
Speaker 3: Lamar in Boston. Lamara, next time, I side with Larry
Speaker 3: called their own president of the Boston Police Patrolman's Association.
Speaker 8: Go right ahead, Lamar, Well, good evening, Thank you for
Speaker 8: taking my call. And Officer Calderona. I do want to
Speaker 8: emphathize with the officers, you know, working extraordinarily long hours.
Speaker 8: That's not healthy for the human body, you know, working
Speaker 8: seventy eighty ninety one hundred hours, you know, I've experienced
Speaker 8: some of that, and it's and it's not healthy. Number one. Secondly,
Speaker 8: regarding shortages, the best explanation that I've heard heard over
Speaker 8: the years has been due to demographics. I'm of baby
Speaker 8: boom generation. After my generation, there was a baby bust general,
Speaker 8: not enough people being born. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 8: the Cato Institute puts out the Cato Journal, and during
Speaker 8: the spring summer of twenty eighteen, they had an issue
Speaker 8: that an article that said Demographics and their implications for
Speaker 8: the economy and public policy. One of the sentences in
Speaker 8: there says that in twenty eighteen, the US fertility rate
Speaker 8: was one point eighty eight births per woman. That's less
Speaker 8: than the replacement rate of two point one babies per women.
Speaker 8: So you know, and so part of what you're experiencing
Speaker 8: is a demographic downturn that is experienced in many professions.
Speaker 8: Many praise And I'll just say one thing, you know,
Speaker 8: regarding first responders in the healthcare industry, it may have
Speaker 8: I read it may have.
Speaker 3: Can we deal with that first with Lamar? Lamar? Can
Speaker 3: we deal with that? Because you threw a lot at
Speaker 3: him there. Okay, So I think what you were trying
Speaker 3: to say, is that because of a down draft in
Speaker 3: the birth rate, there are on as many people who
Speaker 3: were coming into the workforce. I think that's essentially what
Speaker 3: you were saying.
Speaker 8: Correct, That's one of the things. And let me let
Speaker 8: me you know, I'm glad you interrupted because like well,
Speaker 8: like Lamar, I.
Speaker 3: Didn't really interrupt. I'm just trying to understand your question,
Speaker 3: what your comment is. I just want to make sure
Speaker 3: I understand what you just saying, and Larry understands. So
Speaker 3: you're saying, is that, okay, this there are fewer people
Speaker 3: who are applying to become police officers. Is that what
Speaker 3: your your theory? Because there's been a drop in the
Speaker 3: birth rate at some point twenty or so years ago.
Speaker 8: You know, I cited one source, the Cato Wins too.
Speaker 8: I know that, Okay, there are many other sources that
Speaker 8: address the issue of demographics.
Speaker 3: I'm not Lamar, I'm not disputing your source. Trust me.
Speaker 3: I'm simply trying to understand in normal language what you're saying.
Speaker 3: I think I understand it, but I want to make
Speaker 3: sure that I understand it. I think you're saying is
Speaker 3: that there's been a drop off in a birth rate.
Speaker 3: A baby bust generation, whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 3: and that therefore there are fewer people entering the workforce
Speaker 3: for which police departments can choose.
Speaker 8: Correct, that's it, That is correct.
Speaker 3: Okay. Let's first of all Larry to respond to that
Speaker 3: if he sees that as a factor in their their
Speaker 3: their concern, Okay, and then we'll get to your second point.
Speaker 3: Fair enough.
Speaker 2: That's fine, Dan, go ahead, Larry Lamar, thanks for calling,
Speaker 2: and thanks for doing the homework and the insight on it.
Speaker 2: What's what's the Cato Institute's knowledge and numbers? But I
Speaker 2: agree with you that we definitely all of that attributes
Speaker 2: to where we are today in policing. There are a
Speaker 2: lot more reasons as well. One I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 2: talk about our own department. That that means me included.
Speaker 2: We need to do a better way. We need to
Speaker 2: make this job more attractive. We need to do something
Speaker 2: with our residency policy. We need to do something to
Speaker 2: make younger men and women want to be police officers.
Speaker 2: There's plenty of people lining up to join the fire department,
Speaker 2: to be nurses, to get into the medical field. We
Speaker 2: need to as police officers, department staff unions. We need
Speaker 2: to work together to find better ways to recruit candidates
Speaker 2: to put the uniform on and serve others.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, we were just talking about math and CAS
Speaker 2: and I don't know if you were able to hit that, Lamar,
Speaker 2: and I was talking about low staffing there and how
Speaker 2: we had visited. But we're all the social work. What
Speaker 2: we've heard the past couple of years is how social
Speaker 2: workers want to be working hand in hand with law
Speaker 2: enforcement to handle the mental health crisis down at Mass
Speaker 2: and CAST. But there's none there. So my question is why,
Speaker 2: I'm not blaming anybody, but why not have more medical
Speaker 2: professionals there? Where are EMT's. How come we don't hire
Speaker 2: more of them? So I think you're onto something, as
Speaker 2: I'm getting long winded myself, but we need to make
Speaker 2: this job more attractive and come up with ways to
Speaker 2: recruit more bodies.
Speaker 3: Let me get Lamar's second point. Lamar said you had
Speaker 3: a second point.
Speaker 8: Go ahead, Yes, well again, this demographic trend is affecting
Speaker 8: so many professions. You mentioned EMTs. There is a shortage
Speaker 8: of nursing teachers. Okay, I would imagine that possibly there
Speaker 8: is a shortage of teachers for or e mts you know,
Speaker 8: we see periodic, we hear periodically that various schools are
Speaker 8: closing because of declining enrollment.
Speaker 6: You see.
Speaker 8: So what my point is, you know, and I'm not
Speaker 8: disagreeing with you know, I agree with everything that you say,
Speaker 8: Officer called the Rome, you know, but I what I'm
Speaker 8: you know, pressing for is a greater understanding of the
Speaker 8: dynamics of the forces that influence us.
Speaker 3: Okay, so Lamar, let's let lamar, let let's say that
Speaker 3: you're absolutely right. I'm not trying to argue this with
Speaker 3: you at all. Let's assume you're absolutely right. What's the
Speaker 3: solution that you could come up with or is there
Speaker 3: just a situation where we got to say, until the
Speaker 3: baby boomlet occurs ten of fifteen years from now, that
Speaker 3: we have to deal with fewer police officers and you know,
Speaker 3: maybe fewer college students. Harvard and BC and BU there,
Speaker 3: they're still getting thirty thirty five, forty thousand applicants every year.
Speaker 3: In terms of colleges. There are some colleges that have
Speaker 3: gone out in recent years. You're correct on that, but
Speaker 3: the biggies are still draw on that big crowd. So
Speaker 3: what's the solution, Lamar?
Speaker 8: Well, I'm glad you raised that question because what I
Speaker 8: have read from various law enforcement sources, okay, that how
Speaker 8: law enforcement is progressing the shortages is that they are
Speaker 8: some in the law enforcement community would say lowering their standards.
Speaker 8: For instance, they're allowing officers in some jurisdictions, we're tattoos.
Speaker 8: They are allowing officers to we're longer here, okay. And
Speaker 8: also many departments had educational requirements, such as college requirements,
Speaker 8: and what I've read from law enforcement sources is that
Speaker 8: those educational requirements are being relaxed.
Speaker 3: Okay, let me pull a marble gone eight minutes here,
Speaker 3: and I'm five minutes past by break, so I'm going
Speaker 3: to get a quick comment from Larry. And I wish
Speaker 3: they would you would called early because I got pack
Speaker 3: lines and I'm five minutes past my break and we've
Speaker 3: been doing this now for eight minutes. So, Larry, are
Speaker 3: they relaxing certain? I mean, you know, cops can police
Speaker 3: officers wear tattoos, longer hair? Is that the answer?
Speaker 2: Well, I got to tell you she's spot on, Lama,
Speaker 2: spot on a lot of things. He's saying. I think
Speaker 2: we could do a whole show around his point of view, Dan,
Speaker 2: but it's not something that I can start commenting on
Speaker 2: department policy and who can wear tattoos and long hair.
Speaker 2: It's that that's secondary to what I'm looking to accomplish tonight.
Speaker 2: And what I'm looking to accomplish is making sure that
Speaker 2: we're keeping Boston safe. How citizens, I'm men and women
Speaker 2: in uniform, and that really needs to be the topic
Speaker 2: that I I want to stay on it another time, Lamar. Again,
Speaker 2: you can find me at the patrolman disposition if you
Speaker 2: want to give me a call on I'm interested in
Speaker 2: everything you say, but I just think we're losing valuable
Speaker 2: time here for any other callers that might be trying
Speaker 2: to get a word in.
Speaker 3: Lamar, Thank you much. I did nine minutes. I got
Speaker 3: to run. Thank you very much. Keep calling the show.
Speaker 7: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Back on Nightside right after this break.
Speaker 2: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 2: Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 3: By the way, Larry, in some communities in this country,
Speaker 3: I just follow up on what Lamar said, amongst others,
Speaker 3: Illinois will allow some non citizens to be police, but
Speaker 3: only those authorized to work and own a gun. So
Speaker 3: we have non citizens not only in Illinois, but in
Speaker 3: Los Angeles, I believe in Port Lan, Argon and elsewhere.
Speaker 3: Let me go to Penny and Lowell Penny next on
Speaker 3: Nightside with Larry Calderone. Go right ahead, Penny.
Speaker 9: Hi, my dad was a police officer for thirty two
Speaker 9: years in California and things are definitely different.
Speaker 3: Thank you for your service. What city did you work
Speaker 3: in in California?
Speaker 9: What town with community, Marine County, California.
Speaker 3: North of San Francisco. Nice area?
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, So what is stopping them from getting rid
Speaker 9: of this ridiculous archade rule that you have to live
Speaker 9: in Boston to be a police officer?
Speaker 3: All right, Harry, go ahead.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, Penny. Feel free to call Police
Speaker 2: Commissioner Michael Cox and ask them why. I'm not quite sure.
Speaker 2: Along with a good majority of our city council that
Speaker 2: won't even entertain at least waving it for a short
Speaker 2: period of time, I want to make sure I'm clear.
Speaker 2: I'm not sitting here trying to be cute on a
Speaker 2: collective bargaining platform and say, hey, this is a sneaky
Speaker 2: way to get rid of it. I'm asking for what
Speaker 2: they've already done for the police department, for our nine
Speaker 2: one one operators. They've waived it until they get back
Speaker 2: to their minimum staffing. They won't even consider it. They
Speaker 2: won't even have a conversation about it. And clearly that
Speaker 2: is an obstacle that we just encountered last year. We
Speaker 2: could have had roughly sixty fully trained, certified police officers
Speaker 2: to lateral right over here and start taking calls for
Speaker 2: service and believe some of this overtime, but they wouldn't
Speaker 2: do it. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I should.
Speaker 2: Thank Dad for the service too. I apologize it in
Speaker 2: the lead with that.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Also, have they done some out of the box thinking,
Speaker 9: like using some of this eight and eighty million in
Speaker 9: overtime to buy up properties as incentives to get police
Speaker 9: officers or first time home buyer help, benefits that you know,
Speaker 9: may help them come to Boston, because let's face it,
Speaker 9: police officers do not make enough money for what they do.
Speaker 9: There is no a police officer can afford to live
Speaker 9: in Boston. That's ridiculous. And Lamar was right, there is
Speaker 9: a shortage of people having kids because they can't afford them.
Speaker 9: That's a whole nother conversation.
Speaker 3: All right, Thanks Benny, appreciate it, appreciate you calling you
Speaker 3: in Okay.
Speaker 2: Thanks Penny, Sure, thanks Penny.
Speaker 3: Let me go to Steve and you make a plane. Steve,
Speaker 3: you're the last call of the hour. You got to
Speaker 3: be quick for me and making an exception trying to
Speaker 3: get you in here under the work.
Speaker 5: Go ahead, Steve, big fan of the show. Just called
Speaker 5: to say thank you to Larry. Larry, thank you and
Speaker 5: the selfless, hard working men and women of the Boston
Speaker 5: Police Department. I'm a Bostonian. I appreciate you guys. Keep
Speaker 5: up the great work. Thank you, Dan, You're more.
Speaker 3: Than welcome, Larry Kahn. And on a more.
Speaker 4: Positive note, that's that's a great call. Yet, you gotta
Speaker 4: love my fellow JP resident. No, that's fantastic. That's what
Speaker 4: we're looking ahead, Dan. We want residents to to say
Speaker 4: Hi Diddy. Police officers on the street. We want them
Speaker 4: to wave and be part of the community. We want
Speaker 4: them calling your show and saying things like that. And really,
Speaker 4: I appreciate the kind words to me and what I'm doing,
Speaker 4: but it's really about the.
Speaker 2: Men and women in uniform I represent, Steve. They're the
Speaker 2: ones answering the calls for service, they're the ones getting
Speaker 2: ordered eighty ninety hours a week. I'm putting in plenty
Speaker 2: of hours myself, but I am not the guy that's
Speaker 2: being told they can't go to their kids ball game,
Speaker 2: and can't make their vacation and can't take a day off.
Speaker 2: That's the men and women in uniform, not me. But
Speaker 2: I very much thank him for that call and the
Speaker 2: people I represent him.
Speaker 3: Larry, thank you for your time tonight. And this is
Speaker 3: a story. We'll continue and if we can get the
Speaker 3: Commissioner to come on some night that would be that
Speaker 3: would add to the conversation and we'll keep in touching this,
Speaker 3: that's for sure. Appreciate your direct answers to my questions
Speaker 3: and questions from calls. You do a great job. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Larry called around say hi to everybody in uniform for us,
Speaker 3: So here at.
Speaker 4: Night Side, we'll do it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 3: Thanks. All right, we get back. We're going to change
Speaker 3: topics and we're going to move into a direction that
Speaker 3: we need to talk about, and that is those insane
Speaker 3: demonstrations yesterday against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin not net Yahoo
Speaker 3: and we'll talk a little bit about how the national
Speaker 3: media covered those demonstrations. We'll be back on Nightside right
Speaker 3: after the ten oclock News,