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Speaker 1: We're Tom la Rento and this is the Pop Style

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Opinion Beest Telegans. Welcome back to another edition of the PSO.

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I am the t and you'r t LO Tom Fitzgerald

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and I'm here with the low and your t LO

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Lorenzo Mark has my lovely husband. How are you one

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of those? And it's been a very loud week as

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the banging has continued next door and behind us. Not

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the good kind of banging, the the lots and lots

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of workmen kind of banging. Well that's well, this whole

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podcast started off kind of horning. No, it's been a

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very loud week and that's part of part of the

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reason why we weren't able to do a podcast last

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week is we just could not find the time. They

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start their work sometimes at six thirty in the morning,

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I know, and they're not always taking lunch breaks anymore.

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And I honestly think they're ramping it up because the

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weather's getting cold and around December they're not going to

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be able to do any more outdoor work. Yeah, I'm

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telling you, when this is done, this six floor, one

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hundred you know, million dollar condo thing that's going up,

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all of our water pressure is going to be gone anyway. Anyway,

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more than ever, we feel the need to completely, you know,

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do our little song and dance and distract you from

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all the crazy shit that's going on in the world.

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It's a bit of a pod pory this week, a

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pod pori of topics. I'm gonna it's been a very

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very very busy period. Very happy about that for Red Parpetry.

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But I have not been able to do a write

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up of Star Trek Strange New Worlds because I I

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just can't there's so much going on. So we're going

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to talk. I'm going to talk about that. I know

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I talked about it a couple of weeks back, so

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I'm not going to spend too much time on that,

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but you know, for the Trekkers who were interested, I

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thought I would throw out my final thoughts on the season.

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We're also going to talk about the VMA's Red Carpet,

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just briefly as an overview because I was a little

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disturbed and Lorenzo has a Netflix documentary to talk about.

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And then we're going to I have to say, we

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don't have an assignment editor. I always say the one

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thing I would want more than anything else in the

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world to someone to just tell us what to talk about,

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tell us what to podcast about, because coming up with

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topics is actually the hardest part.

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Speaker 2: We'll send us an email if you have a topic

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that you want.

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Speaker 1: Us to talk about. But we got contacted by Salon

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because they they were doing a fifty year retrospective on

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Greg Gardens. And I don't know Andy Zeisler at Salon.

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I mean we follow each other. Andy used to write

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for Bitch Media and I've always liked her work. She

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was writing this piece for Salon on Little Edie Beal

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and why she's an inspiration, and she wanted some thoughts

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as to why gay men have embraced her so much.

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So we sat down and watched the film again because

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we hadn't seen it in a couple of years, and

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it spurred on so many thoughts. And we're going to

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put a link to the Salon piece in the in

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this podcast post because it's a really good piece and

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we were quoted several times in it. But we had

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so many thoughts that I was when we were done,

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I was like, you know what, whatever doesn't wind up

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in the article, why don't we just talk to talk

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about it? Yes, that is something. I mean, Greg, Gardens

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is something that we have had a long relationship with

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a long understanding of.

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Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite things topics or yeah, yeah, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Surprised we actually haven't talked about it before on this

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on this podcast. So we're going to talk a little

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bit about Edie Beale and Grey Gardens and why it's

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important and why I think fifty years later, you should

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watch it with a much more critical eye, right because

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there are some ethical questions that have arisen in the

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fifty years since it was made. And when I watched

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it this week, like I said, for the first time

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in five years, I was like, oh, you know, I

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think that's true.

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Speaker 2: A lot of a lot of documentaries like Paris is

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Bernie is another example that, you know.

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Speaker 1: Even The Queen, Yeah, exactly, And that was on my

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mind because I had just shown The Queen to my sister.

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She had never seen it. The Queen is the documentary

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from nineteen sixty seven about drag queen competition. It was

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very very important in the writing of our book. We

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talked about it all the time, and my sister had

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never seen it, so we watched it, and even The

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Queen is problematic. There are parts where you feel like

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the director is looking at animals in a zoo, right,

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and sometimes sixties seventies cinema verite style documentary has that

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Paris's Burning was the same thing. There was a certain

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sort of look at these people who are so unlike myself,

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you know, these exotic creatures exactly. So I don't we'll

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get into that, but there I have laid out the

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menu for you. Yes, and now let's say, let's talk

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about the VMEs. So very thrilled that we still are

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hired by Cosmopolitan after all these years. I mean, I

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think we've been doing it. It's got to be seven

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or eight years at this point. And we never know.

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We never know we're going to be asked back. We

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have a lovely relationship with them, don't get me wrong,

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but I mean it's math writing. You never know. Editors

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come and go.

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Speaker 2: And people changed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe we age out of the demographic or whatever,

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so we never know. And then we just got word

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this month that we're back for every awards show for

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the next year at Cosmo. But the reason I'm telling

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you this is because I love writing up for Cosmo.

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I really do. It's it's a sprint, I mean the

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red car whatever red carport we're covering. It starts around

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six or seven pm, and I have to have fifteen

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hundred words magazine ready words to go by like nine

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point thirty, and it's just three and a half hours

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of Lorenzo and I scrambling trying to find credits for

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each outfit, trying to find pictures for each outfit so

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that I, you know, we can assess them top to bottom,

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and then producing copy. A show is going as the

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show is going on, usually on like two or three

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TVs at once in our place. It's frantic. It's why

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we have never we haven't had guests over on Oscar

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Night in fifteen years. It's a war good night anyway.

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My point is love doing all these shows, but the

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VMA's is the one show I absolutely hate doing because

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give me a string of actors promoting their projects or

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getting awards, and I know everything. I know where the

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film debuted, I know who the director is, I know

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all the talk about it, and it allows me to

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put everything there.

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Speaker 2: There's more content context yeah, I mean context yeah.

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Speaker 1: And even the Grammys we don't cover music all that much.

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We only tend to cover like Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, Rihanna,

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like huge names, people who who are known for being

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fashionable or at least known for wearing, you know, attention

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getting outfits. But the VMA's is not all It's not

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these big established A listers. Of course, there are a

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few of them there. Gaga was there this year, didn't

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walk the red carpet, But it's usually all of these

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you know, they're big stars. They're they're not nothings, but

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they're big stars. You know that they became big in

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the last eighteen months. They don't have a lot behind them.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing. It's a lot of up and coming

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artists and you know, they don't really know what to

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do and they're learning.

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Speaker 1: A lot of them are very young, yeah, and extreme

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attention seeking. The VMA's has never been a chic red carpet.

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It has all been like Madonna showed up in a

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wedding gown forty plus years ago. It was all about

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costumes and self promotion and outrageousness and meat dresses and

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all of that. So I enjoyed the VMA's red carpet too,

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but to write about it on the fly is extremely difficult.

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Because you wind up having to look up every single person.

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You have to look up their songs, their albums, what

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they're nominated for, and on top of everything else, they're

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all wearing the most hideous stuff you've ever laid eyes on.

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Now that's the setup, and it's a long setup. My

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point is we were both a little taken aback this

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year because it's the most conservative VMA's red carpet I

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have ever seen. And there were only a handful of

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outfits that I would call completely crazy or outrageous or

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just awful. Right, most of it was just sexy sheikness,

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you know. And I want to toss to you, My

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point is it bothers me. We are heading in We

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are in this moment where, you know, authoritarianism and fascism

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is creeping all over the world, and people are scared,

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and people who are in the arts and in culture,

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I am urging them don't be scared at this time, Like,

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don't be scared to be freaky, don't be scared to

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be trans, don't be scared to be black, for God's sake,

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don't be scared to be queer, don't be scared to

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be weird, different and non conformists. The VMA's red Carpet

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is like the last place in the world I want

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to see conformity, and I felt like I was seeing

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more and more of it this year than I've ever

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seen before. I will stop because I haven't even given

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you a chance to talk.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, I agree with you. I feel like they're

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such a great divideer now. And as an artist, I'm

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sure you have fans from both sides, and you don't

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want to piss one of the sides now too much.

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You don't want to lose those fans. I see that

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a lot on social media. People more quiet now, not

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having too much, you know, not having Aberdeenian celebrities. I'm

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talking about celebrities because they have a huge fan base

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from various you know, walks of life, and they just

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don't want to upset what I mean, the whole thing now.

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I see that happening with with Godza for example. Like

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some artists saying something and I read the replies, you know,

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Billie Eilish, there's so many there, and the criticism is

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very harsh because they're fans and they expect you to

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agree with them whatever that is. So I feel like

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that is sort of like happening now, especially because of

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social media. I always say so, social media is very interesting.

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It's such a bomb because you know, it can't explode

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at any minute. And it's true because people have more

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access to whatever you say, whatever you wear, you know, everything,

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your brand, whatever you were associated with. And I feel

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like that that is sort of like happening on the

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red carpet too. People feel they just want to be safe.

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They don't want upset anybody. They just they just don't want.

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Speaker 1: I want us to push. Yeah, be freaking in response

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to this, don't be safe. In response, don't wear Beiesian neutrals,

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wear feathers.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Believe me, I'm not arguing for bad taste or anything

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like that. I still want people to dress in Chica

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on the Red carpet, but I also want them to

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express themselves. And like Lorenzo said, and I'm saying, there's

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just this sense. You know, we've been in this business

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almost twenty years. You don't survive without having your sort

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of finger to the wind. I'm not saying I can

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predict everything that's happening, but right there's a lot of

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indicators that we tend to pay attention to. Some of

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which I can't even articulate. It's just like having, you know,

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antenna and feeling things out. But there is this sense

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in the past. I don't know. Over the summer, I

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think it just feels like there's a timidity on the

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part of the fashion and celebrity world. And I'm just

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begging them, anybody who's listening, any stylist, or anybody who's listening,

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don't do that. Don't be timid at this time. You

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should be expressive. And the whole point of art is

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to express and to challenge and to And I realize

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you're all, like, you know, it's most of you were

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in it for the money. I get it, you're not.

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If you were in it for the art, you'd be

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singing at coffee houses or something. But you know, this

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is just my urge to to the world of celebrity

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and the world of fashion is to not make yourself

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small at this time. I mean, this is something I'm

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erging everyone to do. But truly, we look to the

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expressive to help us through these moments, to help us

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through difficult moments. And if we look to you and

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and you're being timid and safe and beige and neutral

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in response to it. That's not what we're looking for,

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that's all. I mean, maybe people disagree, but I would

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hate to see a tamping down on blackness and queerness

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and anything else that is outside of a very strict,

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you know, norm that is being imposed on us. That's all.

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That's all I have to say about that deal.

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Speaker 2: No, I totally agree. It's a very tough time now

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to express yourself in any way without everybody scared. Everybody scared.

241
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I you know, don't take me wrong. We have very

242
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strong opinions about a lot of things, but we're it

243
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gets to a point that you get attacked so much

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right when you express yourself that you know, you just

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have to think twice and decide if it's worth it.

246
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So yeah, it's tough. It's disappointing. I mean, I'm disappointed

247
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every day, what you know, reading the news and everything.

248
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It's just that's why I'm I Actually, I've always enjoyed

249
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what we do, but I feel like now it's it's

250
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even more of escape for me, you know, Like I'm

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doing this red carpet and this our site and television

252
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and movies because I feel like I need to hold

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onto this or I will not to vive.

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Speaker 1: It's true, all right, putting that aside Star Trek Strange

255
00:14:30,879 --> 00:14:34,720
New Worlds to those abut Trekkers who are listening. I

256
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complained several weeks back that this season wasn't a great one.

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It I really loved season one and season two of

258
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this show. Part of the reason I was actually I

259
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,679
was just exchanging dms on Blue Sky with television critic

260
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Moryan because I complained about the show, and then she

261
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followed me, you know, she DMed me and started complaining

262
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about it. And I'm not revealing anything because she's been

263
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public other comments anyway, but we were going back and

264
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forth complaining about this show, and I said, it really

265
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pains me to say this, but part of the reason

266
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it pains me to say that this season has sucked

267
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so much is because this is the best Star Trek

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show in twenty plus years, and this is the best

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cast of any Star Trek show since the next generation.

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And I gotta follow that up. I know people love

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DS nine and that, and I you know, I love

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DS nine, but there were a lot of people on

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that I mean, had a sprawling cast, and it had

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a very un Trek like cast in some ways, and

275
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a lot of those people were a lot of those

276
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characters were designed to be relatively annoying. So it's not

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that I didn't like the show, but there were characters

278
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and actors on the show that I didn't love. Sorry,

279
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,200
I had to take a sip of water. And then Voyagers.

280
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I told mo Ryan, I was like, I literally loathed

281
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every male character on that show except for the doctor.

282
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I couldn't and that crew Stranger Worlds, every character, every

283
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,639
actor is so so so good. There's so much camaraderie,

284
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there's so much They just work well together and you win.

285
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It's been a long time since I've seen a show

286
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like this where you care about every single cast member

287
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and you would be upset if any one of these

288
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characters were killed off. Of course, the thing was strange

289
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in the Worlds is that literally half the characters cannot

290
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be killed off because this is a prequel series, and

291
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we know that that half of them survived. But still,

292
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I always thought it was doing interesting things. I always

293
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loved the way it had updated the esthetic of track

294
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while still paying homage to the original series. I know

295
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,360
some people think it should all be blinking lights and

296
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,720
cardboard walls like nineteen sixty six, but that is a

297
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very silly way of expecting any science fiction to be.

298
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So this season the show was characterized itself as a

299
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return to episodic Star Trek, to not doing season long arcs,

300
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because this was one of the complaints about Star Trek

301
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Discovery and also about Star Trek Picard, was that they

302
00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:16,000
were doing these long, long, season long, expansive arcs where

303
00:17:16,039 --> 00:17:20,839
the entire universe was, you know, at at you know,

304
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it was in danger, and that gets tiresome, and that

305
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,799
it didn't feel like Star Trek at all. Star Trek

306
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,480
the TV shows were always these episodics, things one you know,

307
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and you would get a one and done and then

308
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you'd move on to the next episode. So that was

309
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,440
one of the appeals of Strange New Worlds right from

310
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the beginning. And I feel like a lot of the

311
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,559
stuff that's wrong with Strange New world Season three is

312
00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:49,640
the show creators listening to the fan base and then

313
00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:55,240
giving them too much of what the familyse loved. So, yes,

314
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,240
it was all these episod you know, it was all

315
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these single episodes, and I have no complain about that,

316
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,599
but they really went all in on each episode being

317
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,759
sort of themy and quirky because last season they did

318
00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:11,519
like an all musical episode, which I actually loved, and

319
00:18:11,519 --> 00:18:13,319
they did an episode where they tied it in with

320
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,400
the cartoon and the cartoon characters from lower decks came.

321
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,119
There were and they've had episodes where everyone's speaking in

322
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like iambic pentameter and all kinds of goofy stuff, and

323
00:18:24,599 --> 00:18:28,559
that's fun and that's fine, but they overdid it this

324
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,079
season and it it felt like every episode felt like

325
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,960
one of those filler episodes of Star Trek back when

326
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,279
there were twenty two episodes a season. But there's only

327
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ten episodes of this show. It's a streaming show, and

328
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,759
I don't need to see a goofy Holo Deck episode.

329
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I mean, I don't mind a Holow Deck episode. It

330
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,599
didn't even bother me that the continuity didn't. They smoothed

331
00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:53,319
it over by saying, you know, they couldn't put it

332
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on the ship and blah blah blah. But when like

333
00:18:55,599 --> 00:18:59,079
that episode, she just it was just a Dixon Hill

334
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,240
episode from the next generation. It was exactly the same storyline.

335
00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:06,160
They didn't change a thing. And this keeps happening with

336
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,400
this show where they keep doing these little homages or

337
00:19:10,519 --> 00:19:15,359
callbacks that make the show feel like it's obsessed with

338
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,000
its own history instead of trying to do something new

339
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,960
or interesting with it now. The final episode aired yesterday

340
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,000
and I didn't hear anything about it. Nobody was talking

341
00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:28,839
about it online and reviews hadn't been posted, and I

342
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,519
was like, huh, that's weird. And then I watched it

343
00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:31,839
and I was like, I think that might be why

344
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,359
it's not a terrible episode. It wraps up some things

345
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about the seasons, and I do think the collage at

346
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,160
the or the montage at the end with all the

347
00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:43,480
characters and showing where they are, it was kind of

348
00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:46,559
cute and kind of fun. Again, I love everybody on

349
00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:52,039
this show, but they did like a ten minute sequence

350
00:19:52,319 --> 00:19:55,480
in this episode that was so clearly a callback to

351
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,960
Piccard's Interlight episode where he lived an entire life time

352
00:20:00,039 --> 00:20:02,960
I'm in the space of a minute or whatever, and

353
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,359
grew old and had children and got married and then

354
00:20:05,559 --> 00:20:09,160
wakes up to this and they did the exact same thing.

355
00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:12,039
The only thing I'll give them credit for was that

356
00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:13,680
they made it very clear what they were doing. Right

357
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,359
in the beginning of the scene, you knew that this

358
00:20:15,519 --> 00:20:18,400
wasn't real. But at the same time, then I was

359
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,720
sitting there for ten minutes going, Okay, we get it.

360
00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:23,680
You're doing another another homage. Can we wrap this up

361
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,599
and move on to the storyline. The problem with with

362
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,359
I keep wanting to quote the next generation. The problem

363
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,400
with Strange in New World is that it has become

364
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,559
too too obsessed with its own lore, with it with

365
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,759
the franchise history, and I had hoped that they would

366
00:20:42,759 --> 00:20:48,240
have used this show to introduce new characters instead of

367
00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:51,519
becoming obsessed with the characters that we already know and

368
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,599
have existed for a long time. So, yeah, we got

369
00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:58,839
this whole thing trying to quote unquote explain why Kirk

370
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,759
and Spock our lifelong friends. And we already know why

371
00:21:01,759 --> 00:21:04,480
they're lifelong friends because we watched it play out over

372
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,640
you know, seventy eight episodes of television in six films.

373
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,680
But we had I have a mind meld, and they

374
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,400
had to talk about how they're going to be friends

375
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,319
for life or whatever, and it's so unsubtle. Another thing,

376
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,880
and I know this is a minor thing, but if

377
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,200
you insist on bringing in all of these characters that

378
00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:25,839
have been portrayed before, you need some consistency in how

379
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,359
these people are going to be portrayed. Ethan Peck is

380
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,680
doing a very good job of giving a spin on

381
00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:36,039
Leonard Nimoy's a delivery and style, and he evokes him

382
00:21:36,039 --> 00:21:39,359
without doing a strict impersonation. Can't remember the name of

383
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,119
the actor who's doing Scotty, but he's also coming in

384
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,400
and he's Scotty. He's recognizably Scotty. And then you have

385
00:21:46,559 --> 00:21:51,039
someone like Huu who is completely different from her character,

386
00:21:51,519 --> 00:21:54,079
doesn't speak the same, doesn't sound the same. I don't care.

387
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,119
I mean, she's younger, whatever. But there has to be

388
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,200
a through line for this charact, Like there are scenes

389
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,920
where it's Kirk and Spock and Ahurra and Kirk and

390
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:11,160
Spock and Ahora and Scotty and Spock and Scotty sound

391
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,000
exactly like their original characters, and Kirk and a Horror

392
00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:15,680
you have to be told that that's Kirk and a Horre,

393
00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:18,000
like this is what I mean. Like it's so uneven

394
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:20,559
in that way, and I wouldn't care, except they keep

395
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:24,480
bringing in all of these characters. I didn't need Scotty.

396
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:27,000
I don't need Kirk to be showing up in every episode.

397
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,920
It actually diminishes the whole point to this show, which

398
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,759
was to show what the enterprise was like before that

399
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,319
crew came on, and you just keep bringing that crew

400
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,440
in and people like Ortega's never ever get any time

401
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:46,119
to develop. I'm disappointed because they have already canceled this show.

402
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,880
There's going to be two more seasons, but the final

403
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,039
season is going to be really short, and I would

404
00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:56,559
have loved that if they had continued their the high

405
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,359
quality of the of the work they had done in

406
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,319
season two. But now it's sounds with an end date

407
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,200
already in you know, in the can. And they showed

408
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,160
a preview I think it was a comic con where

409
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,640
next season they all get turned into puppets and I'm like,

410
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,640
oh God, this is it. They're really it's just going

411
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,160
to be all gimmicky, goofy shows from here on out.

412
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,559
One final thing. The finale this season was interesting, and

413
00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:23,400
they wrapped Marie Bateell's story of really Well. I really

414
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:30,319
loved that character because it's just rare on television generally,

415
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,839
but extremely rare in Star Trek to have a character

416
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,200
like her who's a woman who's likable in commanding, but

417
00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:41,839
also she's kind of prickly, and I like that about her.

418
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,599
I didn't care about her ending. It's a little weird

419
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,640
that she and Pike are both going to get these

420
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,640
bizarre non death endings for themselves. But okay, what I

421
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,680
hated about that storyline was that it didn't feel like

422
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,839
Star Trek at all, because it was all about destiny

423
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,640
and these magic powers and lay lines in space and listen,

424
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,319
Star Trek has never been hard science fiction, but I

425
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,640
really don't like when it starts just going straight up

426
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,319
fantasy and magic. That's not really what I You know,

427
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,319
you can do that on Star Wars, because you know

428
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,000
you've got the Force and all that. But Star Trek,

429
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,200
I want beeps and pu pews, and I want buttons,

430
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,119
and I want science. I want sciencey stuff. I don't

431
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,079
want it is my destiny to turn into this statue

432
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,839
and guard evil for all eternity. Like that was literally

433
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,160
the finale. All Right, we're gonna take a break. Yes,

434
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,279
Lorenzo's pointing and saying, shut the hell up, We're gonna

435
00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:34,640
take a break. We'll be right back, and Lorenzo's gonna

436
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,359
talk about his Well, we'll be right back.

437
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: We're back, and I'm gonna talk about a docmentary, a

438
00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:44,119
new documentary on Netflix that I was watching last night.

439
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,599
It's called Aka Charlie Sheen. I you know the Meati's

440
00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:53,079
talking about it. Some people didn't like it or you know,

441
00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:55,000
don't think it's a great documentary.

442
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,279
Speaker 1: H I was.

443
00:24:57,039 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 2: I was on my couch watching TV, and I decided

444
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,960
to just have something on. So I both like, all right,

445
00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:04,279
let me give it a shot, and I actually watched

446
00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:08,279
the whole thing. It's it's an interesting take because it's

447
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,480
his words. He gets to be interviewed and he talks

448
00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:13,880
about what happened in his life, you know, all the

449
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,319
troubles and and everything about it. Uh, the drug abuse

450
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,079
and and the you know, the public downfall and all that.

451
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,680
So it's his version. It's interesting that he has a

452
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,160
lot of guests, a lot of friends and his ex wives.

453
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,359
They all got to be interviewed. Uh. He explains that

454
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,920
his father and his brother decided not to be part

455
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,039
of it. But even seanpan is is it's saying something

456
00:25:40,079 --> 00:25:42,920
you know, got to be interviewed. So it's it's interesting.

457
00:25:43,559 --> 00:25:46,480
It's his take. He talks about the events, what happened

458
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,720
childhood and everything.

459
00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: I forgot.

460
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: I mean It's funny because I remember reading about it

461
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:55,400
all the time. You know, he was on the news

462
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,680
every day all the time for years. Uh So I

463
00:25:58,759 --> 00:26:03,240
remember reading about it, watching the news, you know, about

464
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:06,279
him and everything, and so I forgot about a lot

465
00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:08,519
of stuff, you know, like like like Heidi Flies, I

466
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:11,640
forgot about her and and you know, the whole thing

467
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,160
with him and then the madam and all that. She

468
00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:17,640
gets to be interviewed, which is very her her take

469
00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:22,680
is very interesting. So it's it. It's interesting. I didn't

470
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,440
think it added anything new, I mean, except that he

471
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:29,279
you know, he doesn't really apologize for anything. He explains

472
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:36,000
things that happened, and it's his take and anyway, he Yeah,

473
00:26:36,039 --> 00:26:40,160
so I watched it. I don't know, I guess would

474
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:45,799
you I wouldn't recommend it. I don't recommend it because

475
00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:50,400
I felt like it didn't add anything. But it's it's

476
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,400
it's interesting because it reminds you of a time when

477
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,680
the media used to be a lot more aggressive about

478
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,920
these things. You know, I think we cover up more

479
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,599
stuff now things were I think things were more exposed

480
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,880
back then, and I think the media's a little more

481
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,119
careful talking about these things, especially you know, any drug

482
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:17,000
anything or any you know, prostitution anything. So so that

483
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,640
that was interesting because I was like, oh my god,

484
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,960
I forgot about the media covering this old time and

485
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,720
talking about all that all that stuff all the time.

486
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,240
But at the same time, it reminds you that these

487
00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:31,759
people are normal people. Their privileged with a lot of money,

488
00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:35,039
their celebrities, but they're just normal people fucking up doing

489
00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:38,799
horrible things. You know, you forget about that for a second.

490
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,759
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I mean, can I just

491
00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:44,880
say they're quote unquote normal people who also get entire

492
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:49,039
documentaries on Netflix where they get to whitewash their own

493
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,599
behavior and tell their version of the story. This is

494
00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:53,920
why I only watched part of this in the background.

495
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:58,680
I didn't want to watch it because listen, I have

496
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,960
all the sympathy in the world for Charlie Sheen's addiction issues,

497
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,039
and I hope they truly are conquered, but that doesn't

498
00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:09,920
give you a free pass at being an absolute asshole.

499
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,599
And he was an asshole, burning bridges left and right,

500
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,519
destroying careers. I mean when he walked out of two

501
00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:20,839
and a half men, like two hundred people around the

502
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,880
losing work over it. Ten million dollars. I don't care

503
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,079
about the producers or the network, but there were people

504
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:31,640
on that crew and something like a Netflix. It should

505
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,559
also be said that this documentary is coming out in

506
00:28:33,599 --> 00:28:36,920
tandem with his autobiography. He wrote a memoir, So all

507
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:42,519
of this is just money. It's just money being thrown

508
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:45,319
at a guy to whitewash his own reputation. And from

509
00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:49,359
what little I saw of this documentary, because I didn't

510
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,240
want to watch it, I was like, no, I don't

511
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:55,440
need that. It was just him trying to be charming

512
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,039
and laugh off a lot of seriously fucked up behavior.

513
00:28:58,079 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: That is true. The only interesting thing is said John

514
00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:01,640
what is his name, John Cryer?

515
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did want to say something about that.

516
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: The Cold Star. He's actually serious about the whole thing,

517
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,400
and he talks how disappointing and it's stressful. Was to

518
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,920
work with him and be around him all that time.

519
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: He said in an interview this week, John Cryer, who

520
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,000
worked with him on Two and a half Men, that

521
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:22,839
he doesn't know. And I thought this was poignant because

522
00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:25,799
if you've ever known someone who had addiction issues and

523
00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:29,759
you were close to them, this is a common feeling.

524
00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:36,000
He doesn't know if this project, this documentary, this memoir,

525
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,279
is him putting those demons behind him, or whether this

526
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,119
is just another stop in a long line of up

527
00:29:44,119 --> 00:29:48,599
and down behavior that's very self aggrandizing and very self absorbed.

528
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,400
It's hard. It's hard to see whether this is, you

529
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:57,279
know whatever. I just didn't feel like it was a

530
00:29:57,319 --> 00:29:59,400
good use of my time to watch something like that.

531
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,319
Speaker 2: If you're interested in the subject better, then there's the

532
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,799
niece Richard's talking about making you know, sandwich for his

533
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,000
hookers at some point.

534
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of that.

535
00:30:09,119 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: Heidi Flies talking about her experience with him, so and

536
00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:15,960
Sean Penn talking about there were friends since there were kids,

537
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,359
I believe, or something like that. So there's a lot

538
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,559
of that if you want to, you know, listen to

539
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,759
that part. But what stayed with me was John Cryer

540
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:29,920
talking about how stressful and how how horrible was to

541
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,960
deal with him, you know, as a co star. You know,

542
00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:36,200
it was just terrible. He didn't know if she was

543
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,000
going to have a job the next day because you

544
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,400
never know how Charlie Sheen was going to behave, you know,

545
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,079
stuff like that. So that was interesting to hear his

546
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,519
take about it. But you know, I didn't feel like

547
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:51,839
it added anything. I didn't feel like he was truly

548
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:54,400
I don't know, sorry for whatever happened. You know, it

549
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,759
ends with him talking about you know, his new relationship

550
00:30:57,839 --> 00:30:59,680
with his children, blah blah blah. You know they always

551
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,599
end with that. But I don't know. Yeah, anyway, I

552
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,640
think he's still Charlie Sheen in a way.

553
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: He'll always be Charlie Sheen. All right, Is that it

554
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:10,200
on that?

555
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,039
Speaker 2: Yes, that's it. But I happened to just catch it

556
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,880
last night. I wasn't planning on watching it, but you know,

557
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,960
if you want to give it a shot, if that's

558
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,720
your thing. But it took me right back to that

559
00:31:20,839 --> 00:31:25,039
time when the news were talking about him the entire time.

560
00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:26,720
Very interesting.

561
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: Yep, all right, I'll take a short break and we'll

562
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,079
be right back to talk about Greg Gardens. We're back,

563
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:37,559
and we thought we would, as we said at the

564
00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:42,599
top of the podcast, you know, inspired by a interview

565
00:31:42,599 --> 00:31:44,880
we just gave to Salon, we thought we would weigh

566
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,440
in on the fiftieth anniversary of Grey Gardens because it

567
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,039
has always been you know, I really don't know the

568
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:53,799
first time I saw Greg Garden.

569
00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:54,799
Speaker 2: I was I was young.

570
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,519
Speaker 1: If I had to guess. I probably saw it in

571
00:31:57,559 --> 00:32:00,480
film school. I mean, I'm sure I saw it in school,

572
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:02,000
so that would probably have been the first time I

573
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,880
saw it. It really didn't it was. It came out

574
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,400
in nineteen seventy five documentary by the Mazels brothers, David

575
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,319
and Albert Mazl's documentarians, and it actually didn't do all

576
00:32:12,359 --> 00:32:14,200
that great, like a lot of these types of things

577
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,759
that didn't do all that great at the time, and

578
00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:19,680
then it became discovered over the years, and the sort

579
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,680
of cult of personality surrounding the Bells grew over that time.

580
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,319
In the nineties, it got rediscovered, probably on home video,

581
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:33,279
and it spurred on a Broadway musical, a very successful

582
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:37,559
Broadway musical, and a dramatic adaptation in two thousand and nine,

583
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:42,680
I Believe with Drew Barrymore and Jessica Jessica Lang and

584
00:32:42,839 --> 00:32:48,599
It's funny Andy Zeisleret Salon was interviewing us, and I

585
00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:51,240
wanted to tell this story, and I actually forgot to

586
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,119
because part of the gist of it was why are

587
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,400
gay men interested? Why were gay men always so interested

588
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,279
in Edie Beal. When we saw the two thousand and

589
00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:07,319
nine dramatization, which that's going and drew at a screening, Wow,

590
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,880
you remember? You don't remember that? I remember because screenings

591
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,039
in Philadelphia, and it was a critics screening. It was

592
00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:18,079
for you know, critics and influencers or whatever. And typically

593
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,920
in Philadelphia, the screenings are not packed. There's only so

594
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,960
many critics and influencers and bloggers locals exactly. So whenever

595
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,400
we have gone to a screening here in Philadelphia, it

596
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,480
was usually a sparsely packed theater. And we walked into

597
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,720
this theater and it was packed.

598
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:36,039
Speaker 2: Really I don't remember, I.

599
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: Do, and we actually had to find seats and we

600
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,240
were both like, wow, it's really packed here. It's really

601
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:44,039
packed here. And I guess we weren't looking around at everyone,

602
00:33:44,079 --> 00:33:46,799
because why would you. That would be a little goofy.

603
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,200
It was I don't even know the first moment. I

604
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:51,599
actually do want to watch the dramatization again because I

605
00:33:51,599 --> 00:33:53,720
haven't watched it a long time. I don't know what

606
00:33:53,839 --> 00:33:57,799
the first moment in the film is. That's funny, but

607
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,559
a funny moment happened. The theater erupted and laughter, and

608
00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:03,880
we both went, oh, it's all gay men, that's it's

609
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,279
all game was. It was a theater full of gay men.

610
00:34:06,359 --> 00:34:09,280
They had just invited half the game men in Philadelphia,

611
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,119
and we were all there in that theater laughing. And

612
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,280
if you recall, and this came up in our interview,

613
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:21,599
Jinx monsoon on on drag Race did an absolutely epic

614
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,719
snatch game version of Larry Styles little Edi Beal and

615
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,719
nailed the character Cole Escola, who you know, just won

616
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,840
the Tony for Oh Mary. He posed or they posed

617
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,639
on the cover of New York Magazine, Uh, dressed like

618
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,559
Edie Beal? So why do queer men love Edie Beal

619
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:48,599
so much? Why don't you start? Do you want to start?

620
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:49,840
Or do you want me to? I want?

621
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I I I actually mentioned that

622
00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:57,960
when we were giving the interview for Salon. I said,

623
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,000
it's it's interesting because I I I'm on TikTok and

624
00:35:02,039 --> 00:35:04,920
I've been watching a lot of people influencers or people

625
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:11,840
with channels doing you know, little doing doing the character

626
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,480
and wearing those clothes and you know, repeating the lines

627
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,400
and everything. And I find that very interesting that because

628
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,639
I think that's one great thing about TikTok is that

629
00:35:20,639 --> 00:35:23,719
they bring back all these old stuff that nobody's talking

630
00:35:23,679 --> 00:35:27,000
about right, and and they present it on TikTok and

631
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,159
and a lot of the young kids don't know anything

632
00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:31,519
about it, and then they get interested and so on.

633
00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:35,480
So I find it interesting that even today people still

634
00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:38,960
find those lines very funny, and and the costumes, in

635
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,760
the fashion and the style. I think that's fascinating. I

636
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,960
think I remember being very young with my friends watching it,

637
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,400
and we, I mean, we were so fascinated by the

638
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,840
whole thing. Obviously we were too young to, you know,

639
00:35:52,199 --> 00:35:55,800
process all the drama and and and the sadness of

640
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,559
it all. But at the time the time, I was

641
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:01,360
focused on the fashion and and the funny lines and

642
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,440
everything they say. And I think that's that's why there's

643
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,519
so many things. We'll talk about a lot of things,

644
00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:07,840
I think.

645
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's start with the Little Edie. We could

646
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,679
talk about Big d but let's face it, Little Edie

647
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,199
is the star of the film, and she's the one

648
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,800
that gay man are responding to in all this time.

649
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,639
Why do people people generally, why do people generally respond

650
00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:26,840
to Little Edie? And you you touched on some of

651
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,440
this people. She's very quotable, right, Almost every single thing

652
00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:35,320
she says in the movie is a quotable line about

653
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,960
how I have to find that libraman and staunch character

654
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,400
and all that stuff. This is the best outphab of

655
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,000
the day. You understand, she has a very distinct way

656
00:36:46,039 --> 00:36:50,760
of talking. She she's extremely articulate, and she uh and

657
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,960
it's oh my god, her her need to be heard

658
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:59,559
is so powerful and so sometimes painful to watch because

659
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:03,159
she is trying so hard to punch through the noise

660
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,559
and the and the trash of her life to to

661
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,960
just be heard. She has a very you know, both

662
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,639
women have very distinct ways of talking because they had

663
00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:16,320
that early twentieth century mid Atlantic accent that actually their

664
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,920
cousin or cousin, no cousin Jackie Kennedy had. They both

665
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,639
talk like Jackie, And I think part of that, that

666
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,679
is part of the fascination is these women have these

667
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,440
extremely high faluting, cultured sort of way of speaking and

668
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,800
they are just living in trash, right, And that's you know,

669
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,039
fascinating to watch now with Edie. If if she was

670
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:45,039
just some tragic character who just lived in in filth,

671
00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:48,559
then this, this film would have been forgotten. I don't

672
00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:53,320
even know if it would have been made. But she

673
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,719
she tries so hard to find some form of beauty

674
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,599
and self expression in that in that life, and some

675
00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:05,719
of that is in how she dresses. If you haven't

676
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,920
seen the film, I would urge you to see it. Actually,

677
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,719
it is a classic. It's fascinating. It can be a

678
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,599
difficult watch in the modern day because I think we

679
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:16,800
have a better understanding of mental health, right and it's

680
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:20,320
far far more clear in twenty twenty five that this

681
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,280
is a film about two women with serious mental health issues.

682
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,119
And I don't know if the Maisles understood that about

683
00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:32,840
them at the time. The understanding of them at the

684
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,920
time was that they were eccentrics. That's how we like

685
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,280
to think of people who are like that, formerly wealthy

686
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,880
people who live in filth and well, they're eccentrics, and

687
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,760
that's true. I mean Edie Little Edie especially was something

688
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,280
of an eccentric. But you watch that film today and

689
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,960
it's like, yeah, okay, but they're eccentric, but they're also serious,

690
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,960
serious mental illness on both of their parts.

691
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 2: Right. The thing is that she's extremely intelligent.

692
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: At sme are just pain Polly Intelli, And.

693
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: Then with all the mental issues, of course, you're going

694
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,480
to still be articulate and and and intelligent, but you know,

695
00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:09,280
if you really look at it, there's something wrong there.

696
00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:13,039
I think, uh talking about queer people, and I can

697
00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:17,679
speak for myself only, and is that I think we

698
00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:21,400
we we appreciate them because first of all, their survivors,

699
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:26,679
you know, they they they they went through so much. Yes,

700
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,199
they went through so much. And I think we can't

701
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,039
forget their women at a time when women had to

702
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,559
you know, obey and behave a certain way and had

703
00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:40,760
to do whatever their father their husband told them to do.

704
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,760
And they keep mentioning that all the time in the

705
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,000
documentary that she ended up with her choices because of

706
00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:50,760
the father, because the father decided what they were going

707
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,960
to do. And I think they, you know, the whole

708
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,639
idea that you always have to conform as a woman

709
00:39:56,159 --> 00:40:00,840
now and back then, and that you gave you know,

710
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,280
sometimes you're forced to give up your dreams. Like both

711
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,320
of them, the mother and the daughter, they were both

712
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,400
very talented, but they had to give up their their

713
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,559
dreams of becoming anything singer, artists, you know, actor or whatever,

714
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,840
and that whole idea of that, I mean even littly

715
00:40:18,519 --> 00:40:21,639
Edie had too. She ran away to New York, you know,

716
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:25,599
to try something different so that she would end up

717
00:40:25,599 --> 00:40:28,239
the way she did. And I think queer people can

718
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,320
relate a lot to that, you know, Yeah, yeah, sure.

719
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: There are scenes in the film where she says and

720
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,679
it really broke my heart, and watching it this time

721
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,079
because I was I was watching it with a queer eye,

722
00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:41,800
because I knew we were going to be questioned about,

723
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,559
you know, why the queer men love her so much.

724
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,000
And there are scenes where she's pacing back and forth

725
00:40:47,039 --> 00:40:50,159
on that porch or in that foyer and saying, I

726
00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:51,599
got to get out of this house. I've got to

727
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:53,159
get to New York. I've got to get out of

728
00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:55,519
this town. And I mean she's a fifty six year

729
00:40:55,559 --> 00:40:58,199
old woman at this point, She's not some kid. But

730
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:03,360
can any queer person understands that that feeling. I gotta

731
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:04,719
get out of this house, I gotta get out of

732
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,519
this family, I gotta get out of this town. I

733
00:41:06,599 --> 00:41:08,440
have to get out into the world where I can

734
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,280
be myself. Yes, And because she couldn't get out into

735
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,760
the world and be herself and she was stuck in

736
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:23,480
this cage. She and again, if you're every queer kid

737
00:41:23,519 --> 00:41:26,199
went through this as you're just making your little things

738
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,239
inside your little cage. You're a little expressive. You're dyeing

739
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,840
your hair a weird color, you're piercing yourself, or you're

740
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,199
drawing on your jeans, And she was doing it through

741
00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:39,800
her clothing. She lost her hair. Some reports or that

742
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,880
she burned it off in a she had a you know,

743
00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:47,119
a break, a psychological break, and she wound up literally

744
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,679
setting her hair on fire. I don't know how true

745
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,039
that is. I think it's pretty clear in the film

746
00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:55,679
that she has alopecia, that she doesn't have eyebrows or

747
00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:02,719
eyelashes either, So you never see her because she started

748
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,199
wearing articles of clothing on top of her head and

749
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,360
pinning them. Not quite like turbans, but like head scarves

750
00:42:10,599 --> 00:42:15,320
more like yeah, actually very similar in the way a

751
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,000
lot of Muslim women wear head scarves tight to the

752
00:42:18,039 --> 00:42:21,960
head and then pinned and long in the back. The

753
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:25,159
differences that she didn't have access to a lot of

754
00:42:25,199 --> 00:42:27,719
silk scarves anymore, so she was doing things like pinning

755
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,719
sweaters and hats and shirts up on top of her head.

756
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,119
And I will never claim that her outfits were impeccable,

757
00:42:36,599 --> 00:42:40,519
but they were definitely interesting. And they were definitely there

758
00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:44,599
was a definite style there. And we said this to

759
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:48,480
Andy and in our interview, to me, my god, having

760
00:42:48,559 --> 00:42:51,719
written legendary Children and done all this research on drag

761
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,119
queens picking out of trash to find some way to

762
00:42:56,119 --> 00:43:01,679
make themselves beautiful, that that is as queer as queerness. No,

763
00:43:02,119 --> 00:43:05,360
I don't think Edie was. She was clearly ahead aosexual woman.

764
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:09,039
I'm not saying that, but culturally, on an identity level,

765
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:12,519
that sort of behavior is so so queer coded. To

766
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,000
just take little whatever trash or things you can find

767
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:19,320
in your life and twist them and turn them and

768
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,079
pin them up, and you come up with something completely

769
00:43:22,199 --> 00:43:26,280
unique that nobody else would have thought of. That's queer art,

770
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,960
that's queer expression. And I do think that is why

771
00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:31,679
queer men, yes, respond to her so much.

772
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 2: I think the fashion and how stylish and unique she was.

773
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,039
I think that's one element that we all you know, admire,

774
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,159
and many collections, many designers you know were inspired by her,

775
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,519
created entire collections based on what she wears. I love

776
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:52,320
what she wears. We watched the documentary again and I

777
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,400
was paying attention to every every.

778
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: It's amazing how she puts them together.

779
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 2: Amazing, It's beautiful. I absolutely love every single one of

780
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,599
them because they're collor coordinated. She knew it's exactly what

781
00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:04,199
she's doing.

782
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 1: Every detail has been thought of. I mean, it's a

783
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,760
little crazy. If you saw a woman walking down the

784
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,679
street like that, she'd be like, Okay, what's wrong with her?

785
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: But at the same time, to me, at least it

786
00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:16,480
makes sense because she explains why she shows whatever she shows,

787
00:44:16,639 --> 00:44:17,840
and you're like, you know what.

788
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: Girls good over the pants.

789
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,119
Speaker 2: She's just amazing. Yeah, I wonder the poster has her

790
00:44:25,159 --> 00:44:28,679
wearing a coat. I wonder if she has that. Actually,

791
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:29,480
I guess she.

792
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: Wore that I think to the premiere as well in

793
00:44:33,159 --> 00:44:35,199
New York. So yeah, that was hers. I mean it

794
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,440
was probably flee Bitten and Ratty, but it was her.

795
00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:41,039
Speaker 2: We never see it in a documentary, I don't remember.

796
00:44:41,079 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: I don't so that. That was the cover of New

797
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,440
York magazine. Oh that wasn't before the documentary. It was

798
00:44:48,599 --> 00:44:51,920
a story written about them, I think before the documentary

799
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,280
came out, because it was a scandal. They were Jackie's

800
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,559
customs and they were living in filth.

801
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: It's interesting because it's you know, she's surrounded by philth.

802
00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:03,880
They are surrounded by filth and everything is so dirty,

803
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:10,760
and but it's it's an interesting take and way of living.

804
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:11,239
I think.

805
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,039
Speaker 1: I don't want to romanticism.

806
00:45:14,119 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to romanticize it. But but there's something.

807
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:18,639
Speaker 1: They were living with wild animals, yes, but.

808
00:45:18,639 --> 00:45:20,679
Speaker 2: There's something freeing also about it.

809
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:22,639
Speaker 1: And I don't want to do that. I mean, you are.

810
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: Because you have no other choice, That's what I'm saying. Yeah,

811
00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:30,039
I mean, I'm not saying that's the way of to

812
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:36,159
live because it's failth everywhere. But that's what they had

813
00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:39,920
at the time. And but you know, it's a shame

814
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,599
because it's a beautiful house.

815
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,559
Speaker 1: And it was it is again it's now right right,

816
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,800
it's been remodeled and it's I actually watched the house

817
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,920
video last night. This women's wear designer who I never

818
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,519
heard of, bought the house from Ben Bradley and Sally Quinn,

819
00:45:56,559 --> 00:45:59,719
who bought it from Little Edie in like nineteen seventy

820
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,079
nine and Ben Bradley, who was the editor in chief

821
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:05,239
of The Washington Post for many many years. Ben Bradley

822
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,280
and Sally Quinn, of course they renovated it and in fact,

823
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,280
when they bought it. They paid two hundred thousand for

824
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,519
it in nineteen seventy nine, which was a chunk of change.

825
00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:14,840
It allowed a little Eaedie to move to Florida and

826
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,599
live there out the rest of her life. But they

827
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,519
she only sold it to them on the agreement that

828
00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:23,960
they would never tear it down, and so they had

829
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,960
to pour a ton of money into getting that house

830
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,360
livable again, and that Sally Quinn wrote years later that

831
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,760
in the summertime you could still smell raccoon urine. When

832
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,079
the house got hot, Oh my god. And then the

833
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:37,719
house got sold again, I think in twenty seventeen to

834
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,840
this woman. I'm sorry, I can't remember her name, and

835
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,000
I watched a house video last night. She renovated it.

836
00:46:43,079 --> 00:46:45,480
She completely renovated. I mean, I don't think she tore

837
00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:48,840
down walls. The layout is exactly the same, but the

838
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,079
style is hard. It's very much this Palm Springs sort

839
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:55,199
of spot. It has a pool, and that's fine, I mean,

840
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,039
but it's the style is very like Lily Pulitzer. It's

841
00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:01,360
all bright and lots of fabricks and lots of prints

842
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,039
and everything, and it just looks awful to me. Obviously,

843
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:06,119
not that the nineteen seventy five version of the house

844
00:47:06,159 --> 00:47:08,639
with the holes in the floorboards and the raccoon shit

845
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,599
all over the place, was any better. But anyway, going

846
00:47:12,639 --> 00:47:18,320
back to the Beals and the Mazels, the documentarians, I

847
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,800
did want to touch on there's always been a question

848
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:28,880
of whether the Mazels had exploited them. And Andy Zeisler

849
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,559
in her interview with us, she talked a bit about

850
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:34,440
She asked us a bit about fashion and how the

851
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,559
fashion world has taken some inspiration from Edie and that

852
00:47:38,639 --> 00:47:41,440
there have been high end fashion collections that have walked

853
00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:44,320
runways that you took inspiration from Edie, And there have

854
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,920
been editorials in Vogue magazine that took inspiration from Edie

855
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,840
and Andy's perspective, and I think it's an absolutely legitimate one.

856
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:56,679
Is isn't this a little unseemly when fashion takes pulls

857
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:01,519
from tragic lives? And you know, because Edie's not getting

858
00:48:01,559 --> 00:48:04,840
any money off this is she's This all happened after

859
00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:07,199
Edie died and everything, and now you know, people are

860
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:11,519
walking runways in two thousand dollars outfits based on her aesthetic.

861
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:18,400
And I understand that I do, but I, for one,

862
00:48:18,679 --> 00:48:21,000
my first response to that was, well, yeah, but Edie

863
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,719
would have loved this. Like Edie, I can't claim to

864
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,519
speak for her, but the Edie that I saw on

865
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,960
that screen would have loved to have known that, you know,

866
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:33,920
three decades after her death, that pieces were walking the

867
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:39,199
runway inspired by her esthetic, don't. I don't think it's

868
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,400
exploited because number one, it happened after she died. Long

869
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,719
after she died. People weren't ripping her off. They were

870
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,599
paying homage to her. And I would say that, you know,

871
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,320
fashion pulls from the impoverished all the time, It pulls

872
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,840
from the not necessarily saying all the time. That is

873
00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:02,440
what art does. That is you know. And you can say, well,

874
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,880
it commodified her mental illness or whatever, but I really

875
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,320
don't look at it that way. As someone who writes

876
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,159
about fashion, I do think her her sense of style

877
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,719
truly is inspiration. You can take inspiration from how she

878
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:18,039
put her clothes together, and I don't think a designer

879
00:49:18,119 --> 00:49:20,519
is wrong to do that. Now Oh sorry, god, no.

880
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: I agree. I think in terms of fashion, fashion is

881
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,079
always very irresponsible where they get their inspiration from. I mean,

882
00:49:26,079 --> 00:49:29,000
we had oil spills, you know, we have all kinds

883
00:49:29,039 --> 00:49:31,480
of stuff. I mean, they have photoshoops in the supermarket,

884
00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:34,599
you know too, you know, oh, let's let's let's get

885
00:49:34,639 --> 00:49:38,320
couture into into supermart, into a supermarket. And if you

886
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,480
really think about it, you know it says a lot

887
00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:46,360
about fashion. So I yeah, but I do. I do

888
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:51,840
think that fashion designers are truly inspired by her, are

889
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:57,119
truely mesmerized by her choices, her uniqueness, her style. I

890
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:57,920
do think.

891
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,159
Speaker 1: So Otherwise, what you let it die because you don't

892
00:50:02,159 --> 00:50:04,400
want to exploit her. I think she would rather her

893
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,239
aesthetic lived on past her death. So and even if

894
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,239
people wind up making money off it, I mean a

895
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,559
lot of people made money off the bills. The Broadway

896
00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:13,599
play made millions and millions and millions.

897
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 2: Of dollars, and the HBO show and so on. So

898
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,480
the HBO show it's actually very good. I highly recommend

899
00:50:20,519 --> 00:50:21,440
if you haven't seen any.

900
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 1: It fills in the blanks.

901
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: Drew Barrymore is amazing, and Jesscaling, my god, my goddess.

902
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,119
They're both amazing.

903
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,119
Speaker 1: So much so that when we were watching the documentary

904
00:50:32,159 --> 00:50:33,840
again this week, I turned to you and I said,

905
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,519
I can't. I can't look at these scenes without picturing

906
00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:39,559
Jessica Lang and too Barrymore. That did such a good job.

907
00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 2: God, that's a very good take. That's a very good point.

908
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,519
Drew Barrymore was amazing. I remember her fighting for the

909
00:50:45,559 --> 00:50:48,360
world at the time. She's saying that, please please let

910
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,639
me play her. Yeah, you know, I'll change the way

911
00:50:50,679 --> 00:50:52,320
I speak, because you know, people make fun of the

912
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:52,840
way Drew wild.

913
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,079
Speaker 1: It was about twenty years too young, but she looked

914
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:55,679
just like her.

915
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 2: But she said, please let me do it. And Jesskaling

916
00:50:58,079 --> 00:51:01,800
my god, oh my god, I actually want to watch

917
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,239
it again. So it's on HBO. I loved it. I

918
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,920
thought it was beautiful because the documentary is just showing

919
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,000
them in the house and HBO the HBO series did

920
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,199
did a little bit of you know, flashback. He tell

921
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,079
the whole story and you understand things a little better.

922
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,639
And it's interesting because I was fascinated by them because

923
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,400
they I mean, there's two brothers that we don't see

924
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,400
in the documentary. There's more to it, you know, if

925
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,800
you go and and check all the names they mentioned,

926
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,719
the people she dated, little Edie dated, and everybody, there's

927
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,920
a lot. I mean, he keeps getting bigger and bigger

928
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,320
the story and more and more interesting. The guy, the

929
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,000
grocery guy. I didn't know that, and later I found

930
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:48,920
out he was. He's queer, he's gay, he's he's you

931
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:50,119
know in the documentary a.

932
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:51,760
Speaker 1: Lot marble phone.

933
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, very very interesting guy too.

934
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: Anyway, I agree in terms of the masales and weather

935
00:52:01,119 --> 00:52:05,960
whether this is an exploitive film. Like I said, I

936
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,480
think there are times in the film. There's a scene

937
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,199
near the end with big Edie in bed singing and

938
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,880
the camera just ling lingers over the filthy mattress and

939
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,679
her dirty toe nails, and I'm just like, yeah, see,

940
00:52:18,679 --> 00:52:22,119
that's where you lose me. I mean, from their perspective,

941
00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:24,440
from the Mazles perspective, they're showing you the truth of

942
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:28,039
the situation. This is how she lives. But when you

943
00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:31,440
do these lingering shots of filth and I mean to

944
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:36,000
be perfectly blunt, degraded bodies, there's a certain sense of

945
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,840
that does feel a little exploited. On the other hand,

946
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,360
it's hard for me. I'm not a clinician, obviously, and

947
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,360
I don't even think a clinician could diagnose women these

948
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,960
women through a documentary, but I don't feel that they

949
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,159
had cognitive disorders. I don't feel like they didn't know

950
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,239
what was going on around them. I don't get that

951
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,599
impression at all. I think they are well aware of

952
00:53:01,639 --> 00:53:07,119
how they come across. And they were both absolutely thrilled

953
00:53:07,199 --> 00:53:12,239
by the attention, right. They loved having those cameras on them.

954
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,039
They loved being able to sing, being able to dance,

955
00:53:15,159 --> 00:53:17,760
being able to tell whatever stories they wanted to tell,

956
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,679
and on that, And I think the Mazos would have argued,

957
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,760
and I think they would be right that as filmmakers,

958
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,920
they're giving these women a voice when society would have

959
00:53:28,119 --> 00:53:29,920
rather they shut up and go away, right.

960
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,679
Speaker 2: I mean, at some point in the documentary literally he

961
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,599
says I didn't know I needed to you in my life,

962
00:53:35,679 --> 00:53:36,400
or something like that.

963
00:53:37,039 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: So heartbreaking.

964
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:42,199
Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking. If you've never watched a documentary. I highly

965
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:43,239
recommend it. It's a very good.

966
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:44,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. I highly recommend it.

967
00:53:44,679 --> 00:53:46,599
Speaker 2: I highly recommend it.

968
00:53:46,599 --> 00:53:47,519
Speaker 1: It's on Prime Video.

969
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 2: You watch it in the beginning, it's actually fascinating and

970
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,440
you know you're fascinated by it, But it gets to

971
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,360
a point where it just gets tougher to watch because

972
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,679
they get more confrontational. You know, they get into fights

973
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:03,400
and and I guess because they have spent more time

974
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,760
with the with the guys now filming everything.

975
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,199
Speaker 1: It's just it so.

976
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:10,639
Speaker 2: They're more familiar with them, more comfortable with them, so

977
00:54:11,039 --> 00:54:14,360
more stuff comes out and you're like, Wow, that's when

978
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,519
you start going like, Okay, that's that's that's tough.

979
00:54:18,119 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: But it's a complicated film, and I did enjoy watching

980
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,079
it again, if only to be in little Lady's company again,

981
00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:29,679
to hear her thoughts and to watch her just how

982
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,440
she engages with the world. She was truly a unique character,

983
00:54:35,639 --> 00:54:39,400
and if this film hadn't quote unquote exploited these women,

984
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,239
we'd never have known about her, and I think the

985
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,880
world would have lost out. I'm not not knowing about

986
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:45,599
Lady Beale.

987
00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:47,639
Speaker 2: One of the good things about the documentary is that

988
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,840
after the documentary came out, the family helped, right, and

989
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,039
it didn't somebody help.

990
00:54:53,119 --> 00:54:57,159
Speaker 1: Now, this was before the document Yeah, that's the cleaned

991
00:54:57,199 --> 00:55:00,480
up house version of the house.

992
00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: Wow.

993
00:55:01,079 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: Yes, Jackie did give something like two hundred thousand dollars too,

994
00:55:05,639 --> 00:55:07,920
because it made the made New York magazine. It was

995
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,159
a huge scandal, and the film opens up with all

996
00:55:10,199 --> 00:55:14,960
of that newspaper clippings and in order for them to

997
00:55:15,079 --> 00:55:17,119
get because they were going to be evicted in the

998
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:20,000
house was going to be condemned, and it made the press,

999
00:55:20,039 --> 00:55:22,119
and these were Jackie's cousins and so it was a

1000
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:27,480
huge scandal. And Jackie and I believe her sister Lee

1001
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:32,960
also put money up to have the house. You didn't

1002
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,880
know this, Wow, that's why. If you look, the walls

1003
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,599
are all freshly painted. That bedroom is bright yellow, and

1004
00:55:39,639 --> 00:55:44,239
the vestibule is bright blue. Everything's been painted and cleared out.

1005
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,239
They cleared out all the trash. And this is actually

1006
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:51,239
in the HBO movie. That's how I knew it. But yeah,

1007
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,320
that's the cleaned up version of the house. That's how

1008
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,320
bad things were. They were living in piles and piles

1009
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:01,400
of filth, and in the documentary they're still not living

1010
00:56:01,599 --> 00:56:05,960
in sanitary conditions. But you it's a little bit better.

1011
00:56:06,079 --> 00:56:06,960
It's slightly better.

1012
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,519
Speaker 2: You're right because certain parts of the documentary it looks cleaner.

1013
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:14,000
The walls are cleaner. And then I actually was like, oh.

1014
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:19,119
Speaker 1: I actually had guests over for a birthday party. They did, so, yeah,

1015
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:23,679
I do recommend it. I think it's I think there's

1016
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:29,320
just something painful but hopeful about it. Someone like Edie,

1017
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,880
like someone who has been so beaten down by life

1018
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,119
and by the choices other people made, and by restrictions

1019
00:56:36,159 --> 00:56:40,559
placed upon her. But the fight to be heard, to

1020
00:56:41,159 --> 00:56:44,079
express herself, to be the person that she knows she's

1021
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:48,599
supposed to be. That's poignant as how, watching her struggle

1022
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,159
against her chains.

1023
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,599
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, it's hopeful in a way, and I

1024
00:56:53,599 --> 00:56:56,960
think it's if nothing else makes you understand people a

1025
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,039
little better, that not everybody has the same thing to

1026
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:02,800
pull off, you know, or to get get out of

1027
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:07,480
a situation. You know, sometimes you're you're stuck with whatever

1028
00:57:07,519 --> 00:57:11,119
you have and you can't really change reality, or sometimes

1029
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:13,800
you can, or or sometimes you're very delusion about it

1030
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,599
and you keep going. You know, people have different ways

1031
00:57:17,639 --> 00:57:21,199
to react to things. But it's clearly, it's very clear

1032
00:57:21,239 --> 00:57:22,960
to me when you watch the episode that these two

1033
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,159
women could have been incredible, successful.

1034
00:57:26,679 --> 00:57:27,599
Speaker 1: Or whatever they had.

1035
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, they different sort of lives, different sort of a

1036
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,599
you know, reality, So that part is very set. Yeah,

1037
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,159
just just set greed.

1038
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: Anyway, Go watch Great Gardens, Yes every thought we have

1039
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,400
on the fiftieth anniversary of it, and let us know

1040
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,320
what you think. We'll be back next week. With whatever

1041
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,840
crosses our eyes across their desks. Until then, take care

1042
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:51,039
of yourselves, love you mean it.

1043
00:57:51,079 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 2: By bye bye the creek and a gran Creek and

1044
00:58:03,079 --> 00:58:07,880
a Fi Tank Creek and the grafl Fu to Saxton