Speaker 1: Weird things happened in Weird Weird Weird.
Speaker 2: Welcome guys, we have a really cool episode today.
Speaker 3: Yo.
Speaker 2: I could since it coming, and I always have to.
Speaker 3: It's always my role at the beginning of the show
Speaker 3: is to like be.
Speaker 2: Like that's why I paused after the sentence. I was like,
Speaker 2: it's coming, it's coming, thank you. It's been a while
Speaker 2: since we've done a Wizard Traditions, It's been like four months.
Speaker 2: And we were just talking over the other day. I
Speaker 2: think we were actually doing a discord event. We were
Speaker 2: doing a discord event the other night, and we just
Speaker 2: threw up an impromptu poll with like the sixty or
Speaker 2: seventy people that were in there, are like, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: you guys like wisdom traditions? Do you like spirit science?
Speaker 2: Do you like these segments? And it was like an
Speaker 2: overwhelming yes. So we were like, all right, well we
Speaker 2: got to do a wisdom tradition. Yeah, And we talked
Speaker 2: about it and something that I personally have been like
Speaker 2: really fascinated in lately is mithraism. Yes, you're agreeing that.
Speaker 4: I've been doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just backing you up.
Speaker 2: You're vouching for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I always got your bag. I'm not lying. Well,
Speaker 3: I just want to make sure everybody knows that you're
Speaker 3: not lying. Yeah, you know, he's just somebody's got to
Speaker 3: have your back.
Speaker 2: No, it's true.
Speaker 3: Alex definitely don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he never does.
Speaker 3: Look at it. Look at him. He's like, well, I
Speaker 3: mean yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just thought this one would be really
Speaker 2: kind of out of the box and it's a really
Speaker 2: fascinating part of history that genuinely not much is known about.
Speaker 2: And I say not much is known about, but then
Speaker 2: like what we're going to cover today is pretty crazy.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess I'll just kind of get into it.
Speaker 2: But so from the like history angle, genuinely not much
Speaker 2: is known about Mithraism. It's mostly like vanished from history.
Speaker 2: Okay for the most part. Actually, you know what, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna put a quick pause before we get into the
Speaker 2: history and the doctrine and the myth ritual system of
Speaker 2: Mithraism itself. I want to take a quick step back
Speaker 2: and talk about like a broader overview about esoteric doctrine.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, So the deeper you get into this body of knowledge,
Speaker 2: the more it becomes clear that there's this like big
Speaker 2: entangled web connecting all of these different systems, right, And
Speaker 2: it's obviously today that takes place in the form of
Speaker 2: like Rosicrucianism, Freemasonry. You have stuff like Hermetic Order, the
Speaker 2: Golden Dawn, you have Theosophy, and there's other systems that
Speaker 2: I'm probably not that aware of. But in the ancient
Speaker 2: past you had these things like the Odentic mysteries, the Druids.
Speaker 2: You had the worshippers of Auto Whom and Amunrah and
Speaker 2: Isis and Osiris, and you had Serrapis mithraism Orphism, and
Speaker 2: it goes on and on and on. The Elusinian mysteries, yeah, Kabbala, Zoroastrianism,
Speaker 2: the Essenes, the Gnostics. There's this massive web of these
Speaker 2: different schools of thought from these different cultures that were
Speaker 2: preaching the same thing.
Speaker 5: So what is the thing?
Speaker 2: What is the same thing?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: Excuse me? So I wanted to pull from my new
Speaker 2: favorite text, The Secret Teaching of All Ages to talk
Speaker 2: about like the broad overview of esoteric doctrine. So this
Speaker 2: is from Manly p.
Speaker 5: Hall.
Speaker 2: Few of the early cults actually worshiped anthropomorphic deities, although
Speaker 2: their symbolism might lead one to believe that they did.
Speaker 2: They were moralistic rather than religionistic, philosophic rather than theologic.
Speaker 2: They taught men to use His faculties more intelligently, to
Speaker 2: be patient in the face of adversity, to be courageous
Speaker 2: when confronted by danger, to be true in the midst
Speaker 2: of temptation, and most of all, to view a worthy
Speaker 2: life as the most acceptable sacrifice to God, and his
Speaker 2: body as an altar sacred to the deity. Sun worship
Speaker 2: played an important part in nearly all the early pagan mysteries.
Speaker 2: This indicates the probability of their Atlantean origin, for the
Speaker 2: people of Atlantis were sun worshipers. The solar deity was
Speaker 2: usually personified as a beautiful youth with long golden hair
Speaker 2: to symbolize the rays of the sun. This golden Sun
Speaker 2: was slain by wicked Ruffians, who personified the evil principle
Speaker 2: of the universe. By means of certain rituals and ceremonies
Speaker 2: symbolic of purification and regeneration, this wonderful God of good
Speaker 2: was brought back to life and became the savior of
Speaker 2: his people. The secret processes whereby he was resurrected symbolized
Speaker 2: those cultures by means of which man is able to
Speaker 2: overcome his lower nature, master his appetites, and give expression
Speaker 2: to the higher side of himself. The mysteries were organized
Speaker 2: for the purpose of assisting the struggling human creature to
Speaker 2: reawaken the spiritual powers, which, surrounded by the flaming ring
Speaker 2: of lust and degeneracy, lay asleep within his soul. In
Speaker 2: other words, man was offered a way by which he
Speaker 2: could regain his lost state, and that is from secret
Speaker 2: teachings of all ages. So like the general premise being
Speaker 2: made here throughout this text and just in general throughout history.
Speaker 2: You know, esoteric doctrine is, if you follow the Hermetic philosophy,
Speaker 2: the Hermetic body of knowledge, right, there's this primordial thought,
Speaker 2: there's this primordial tradition, right, that has survived from the
Speaker 2: time of Atlantis. And the idea is that this primordial
Speaker 2: tradition is like shining into all of these systems throughout time.
Speaker 2: It's influencing and informing all of these various myth ritual
Speaker 2: systems throughout time. And then we'll cover this a little
Speaker 2: bit later. But sometime around the i don't know, like
Speaker 2: the three hundreds, I think it was when they had
Speaker 2: the Edict of Milan when they legalized Christianity, and then
Speaker 2: eventually when it became the state religion of Rome, they
Speaker 2: sort of like massacred these other systems. Yeah, they just
Speaker 2: snuffed them out, right, So then like Roman Catholic Christianity
Speaker 2: became like the dominant viewpoint, and it just literally all
Speaker 2: of these traditions kind of washed away into the annals
Speaker 2: of time, right, just disappeared. So it's like, what were
Speaker 2: they teaching? What was the core idea between them? Well,
Speaker 2: the idea was present in all of their different ritual
Speaker 2: systems was that we are in a dream, right, We're
Speaker 2: in a dream, that this is an illusion, and that
Speaker 2: the real world is the other world, the spirit world,
Speaker 2: and that we come into this world, we fall into
Speaker 2: this material reality.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: Or as you know, some might say as Lucifer rebelled
Speaker 2: against God and then fell into earth and was fell
Speaker 2: beneath earth and was imprisoned, you know, shackled whatever, And
Speaker 2: that's symbolic of us like falling into this state, falling
Speaker 2: away from perfect spiritual reality.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: And basically our purpose here is to discover our true
Speaker 2: spiritual reality, to find the philosopher's stone to drink from
Speaker 2: the from the Holy Grail, the chalice, basically to transmute
Speaker 2: our base, animalistic, lower desires into the higher philosophic thought
Speaker 2: and spiritual way of being and thinking and existing and
Speaker 2: like sort of communing with God, the higher consciousness. It's
Speaker 2: like a general view of the esoteric doctrine. Any thoughts
Speaker 2: on that.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The way it's it's interesting the way that it's phrase
Speaker 3: is that like those based like the monkey mind.
Speaker 2: Remember we were talking about like the monkey mind Journey
Speaker 2: to the West.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the antithesis of being in a state
Speaker 3: of spiritual being or awakening or enlightenment, like giving into
Speaker 3: those like base. I like the way that it described that,
Speaker 3: like we're all like we have the core of spirituality,
Speaker 3: we have the spiritual core, and it's surrounded by what
Speaker 3: was it lust and like degenerous, degenerousy. I like that
Speaker 3: description a lot. It's it feels so true because there
Speaker 3: are many distractions in this material world, but they are
Speaker 3: just those they're distractions when you have this like underlying, real,
Speaker 3: alive truth that like there is something really beautiful going
Speaker 3: on inside of you into i e. Your soul or
Speaker 3: your consciousness, but you can't really focus on it. Or
Speaker 3: nourish it if you're being distracted by all of these
Speaker 3: like base material, desire and stuff. I find it interesting
Speaker 3: that all of these ancient wisdom traditions are kind of
Speaker 3: hitting on that same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and here's the crazy thing. So you always wonder
Speaker 2: why do they do rituals? At least I did, you know,
Speaker 2: growing up hearing about this stuff since I was eighteen
Speaker 2: years old, being so fascinated by it, studying it for
Speaker 2: hours and hours and hours. I feel like the first
Speaker 2: level of getting into this whole field of knowledge is like,
Speaker 2: what do they mean? What does it all mean? What
Speaker 2: are they into? What's it about? And the more you read,
Speaker 2: the more you see, like kind of the veil gets
Speaker 2: lifted a little bit and you see like the connection
Speaker 2: between it all. And what I've come to understand is
Speaker 2: that in the ancient times when they did these rituals,
Speaker 2: the reason that they were like, you know, basically, if
Speaker 2: you could tell these secrets will kill you. I mean
Speaker 2: they said it in a different way, but it's because
Speaker 2: at this time, the authorities of the time, in the
Speaker 2: more or less like general populace of the world, the
Speaker 2: initiates or the masters or whatever, the priests of these
Speaker 2: systems believed that this knowledge was not safe among the
Speaker 2: general population. So in order to be initiated into one
Speaker 2: of these traditions, you had to prove that you are worthy,
Speaker 2: which is symbolic of King Arthur pulling the sword from
Speaker 2: the stone or Mulnir. Whoever holds this hammer, you know
Speaker 2: whatever it says, whoever so worthy? Yeah, whoever is worthy
Speaker 2: to hold the same Yeah, who can hold mule near? Like,
Speaker 2: you have to be worthy. You have to be a
Speaker 2: candidate that proves you're worth, that you are earnestly seeking
Speaker 2: this knowledge. So what they would do is they would
Speaker 2: take these candidates who are seeking initiation and they would
Speaker 2: put them through rigorous trials, like sometimes they might have
Speaker 2: a valve of silence for three years. Sometimes they might
Speaker 2: go off into the woods and they have traps in
Speaker 2: the woods, and they have people dressed up, and they
Speaker 2: would do like simulations of hell, like if they were
Speaker 2: the Eleucinian mysteries, the Oracles of Delphi, or the Orphic mysteries,
Speaker 2: they might have created a labyrinth so that people walk
Speaker 2: through the labyrinth and see people dressed up as the
Speaker 2: Menotaur and dressed up as harpies and dressed up as
Speaker 2: hades to like scare the initiate, to show them the
Speaker 2: horrors of living in material reality and the suffering of
Speaker 2: hell if they don't awaken.
Speaker 3: You know, it's things like that shocking allegory.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, but they would make them live it, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah yeah, because it makes it real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, makes it real. For it's like, there's no better
Speaker 3: way to learn a lesson than having the shit scared
Speaker 3: out of you.
Speaker 2: And I know that they do this. I know that
Speaker 2: this is real. A because there's evidence of this all
Speaker 2: over the world. But B I'm not gonna say which
Speaker 2: just just maybe because I shouldn't. But I was very
Speaker 2: briefly an afraternity in college. I know you remember this.
Speaker 2: It was very briefly in efternity, and it wasn't a
Speaker 2: big deal. I mean, I went to a small private
Speaker 2: Christian school. Like it really was not like a big deal.
Speaker 2: It wasn't a huge thing. I was in at two
Speaker 2: semesters and I was out and it was mainly just
Speaker 2: friends and we played video games. And I found out
Speaker 2: later that that fraternity was created by a Freemason. When
Speaker 2: I joined that fraternity, I was a young eighteen year
Speaker 2: old kid, I didn't even know what a freemason was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I mean at all.
Speaker 2: No, I found out because of that, you know. But
Speaker 2: what I'm getting at is, you know, fraternities have rituals,
Speaker 2: and we did a ritual and it was the same thing.
Speaker 2: It was like a simulation of death and rebirth and
Speaker 2: like darkness and like laying in a coffin and being
Speaker 2: in the dark stuff like that. I mean, it wasn't like,
Speaker 2: you know, threat of my life. I mean, it was
Speaker 2: a college thing. It was safe, it wasn't that extreme.
Speaker 3: But it was the fact that all the symbolism was
Speaker 3: still there. Yeah, pretty wild.
Speaker 2: So I'm just saying, like in you know, twenty twelve
Speaker 2: or whatever, when I underwent this little washed down experience,
Speaker 2: it's like reminiscent of what these ancient people actually did.
Speaker 2: And sometimes I wonder if I was propelled by my
Speaker 2: subconscious mind just to have that experience is like a
Speaker 2: little like a little nud a joke. Yeah, like you
Speaker 2: went through it, but yeah, it was like laying in
Speaker 2: a coffin, dying, being reborn and not me. You know,
Speaker 2: you're observing it happening to someone else. I don't think
Speaker 2: they could get away with uh, you know, with something
Speaker 2: too extreme, there could be lawsuits or something. But my
Speaker 2: point is I know they do this because I have
Speaker 2: witnessed it to some extent.
Speaker 3: I assume that, like they made you get in a coffin.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, I wish I sincerely wish, dude,
Speaker 2: I wish they'd very mean that ship for three days.
Speaker 5: I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's that's all I'm saying. I'm just commenting that, like,
Speaker 2: I genuinely and earnestly believe that this went on in
Speaker 2: ancient times and that it probably still does today with
Speaker 2: certain ritual societies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, if fraternities are doing it today, then I'm
Speaker 3: certain that like these mystery schools are doing.
Speaker 2: It too, Yeah, because that's where it came from. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, so they would they would, uh you know,
Speaker 2: make these candidates prove their worthiness. And and that's that's
Speaker 2: very that's very interesting. So anyway, so mith Raism was
Speaker 2: very popular amongst Romans at the time, especially around the
Speaker 2: time of Christ. And actually what's really cool is that
Speaker 2: when the Christian religion was forming and Christ is dead
Speaker 2: for some number of years now, and there's all these
Speaker 2: different little cults and traditions around the time. The Christians
Speaker 2: were so at risk of being massacred by the Roman
Speaker 2: authorities because they were they were peeling their flesh off,
Speaker 2: they were burning them, they were cutting their heads off.
Speaker 2: I mean the Romans were really killing them for like
Speaker 2: three hundred years, like on site, it was a crime.
Speaker 3: Yea.
Speaker 2: They actually secretly worshiped underground in Mithraic caves.
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, so so then is there like a
Speaker 3: projected like like era of when Mithraism kind of emerged. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it was, so I'm assuming that that's got to mean
Speaker 3: it was obviously before this was all happening, if there
Speaker 3: was like Mithraic caves underground and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were around when Christ was already born. I mean,
Speaker 2: the timeline I'm seeing here is that the the Mythraism
Speaker 2: as we're talking about it right now started in around
Speaker 2: the first century BCE, so around one hundred BCE, so
Speaker 2: one hundred years before the times of Christ. So these
Speaker 2: temples are not temples, they were caves. They were underground tombs,
Speaker 2: catacombs and sepulchers. They were already there. The Christians were
Speaker 2: literally worshiping in those tombs.
Speaker 3: Wow, just of mythrists. Stay safe, say, don't get murdered.
Speaker 3: That's right. Wow.
Speaker 2: Now if we back it up a little more and
Speaker 2: talk a little more heavily about the origins of Mithraism
Speaker 2: and where it truly came from. We had one of
Speaker 2: my favorite historical figures, a man by the name of
Speaker 2: Zarathustra in one thousand BC. Also what it translates to
Speaker 2: mean radiant star. But then he changed his name to Zoroaster.
Speaker 2: And so here's where it gets interesting. Okay, I'm cutting
Speaker 2: forward a little head and I'll cover it again later,
Speaker 2: or I'm I'm cutting.
Speaker 5: A little bit ahead.
Speaker 2: I don't know what I just cut head. I'm cutting
Speaker 2: forward a little head, a little ahead forward, damn it.
Speaker 2: And so Zarathustra, the radiant Star man in one thousand BC,
Speaker 2: he went into a cave. It's important to note that
Speaker 2: he went into a cave and he had a mystical experience.
Speaker 2: He saw God. He saw this flash of light and
Speaker 2: it spoke to him and it said its name was
Speaker 2: a horror Mazda or it was Ormuzed, and it came
Speaker 2: to him and it basically said, and we have a
Speaker 2: whole episode on Zoroaster, probably really early in the show. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's really really yeah, like probably
Speaker 2: like the twenties or thirties. Yeah, maybe the forties or something.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: And it basically told him, you know. Now, granted, this
Speaker 2: was an Iran previously known as Persia, so the language
Speaker 2: was different, but it basically said it was like the
Speaker 2: eternal God, the force of good throughout all the universe
Speaker 2: and basically in a nutshell, skipping over a lot of
Speaker 2: the Zoroastrian doctrine, which a lot of Christianity took from this,
Speaker 2: or rather you know, Judaism took from this, and it
Speaker 2: was molded by this, you know, especially considering it was
Speaker 2: the Persian king Cyrus who freed the Jews from captivity
Speaker 2: in Babylon, So you have to consider, like there are
Speaker 2: real historical moments in time where the Persians and the
Speaker 2: Jews were friends and they were working together and they
Speaker 2: were escaping Babylon. So there was like a genuine point
Speaker 2: in history where there was a transmission of their cultures.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, So anyway, he goes into a cave and it says,
Speaker 2: behold Amahara Mazda in order to basically go to heaven.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna boil it down. Basically, to go to heaven,
Speaker 2: you have to have good thoughts, good words, and good deeds.
Speaker 2: You have to be pure of heart, you have to
Speaker 2: have a good spirit. But there is a dark spirit,
Speaker 2: Angriminu or Araman. It's the evil reflection, and there's this
Speaker 2: eternal cosmic war of you know, this dark shadow versus me,
Speaker 2: the God of light and goodness and truth and salvation.
Speaker 2: And basically it boils down to in Zoroastrian thought, there
Speaker 2: came a point in time throughout the universe where Araman
Speaker 2: like invaded the soul of mankind. So now like for
Speaker 2: every good thing there is in the universe, Araman is
Speaker 2: trying to poison it. So like, basically what they're saying
Speaker 2: is human nature has Angrimannu, the Light God, the highest good,
Speaker 2: and it has Araman whispering, you know, evil demonic things
Speaker 2: in our ear. We have both light and dark inside
Speaker 2: of us. So we have to align ourselves with the light,
Speaker 2: with Angriminu through good thoughts, good words.
Speaker 3: The light. Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bad one's on grimnded right, Yeah, we have
Speaker 2: to align with the Horrmanzda. Yeah, we have to align
Speaker 2: with the good the light through good thoughts, good words,
Speaker 2: good deeds, or the dark force will steal us away,
Speaker 2: it'll destroy us. So somewhere along the lines of Zoroastrianism
Speaker 2: over a thousand years between one thousand BC to you know,
Speaker 2: the time of Christ and the you know, the height
Speaker 2: of Mithraism. Over time, the Zoroastrian writers and priests added more,
Speaker 2: they added more texts, and at some point there became
Speaker 2: this other figure known as Mithra, which is a flame.
Speaker 2: It's like this fire, and it's kind of like their
Speaker 2: version of Christ. Mythra or Mithras is like the intercessor
Speaker 2: between man and.
Speaker 3: The like like the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or Jesus, Yeah yeah, born of a virgin. He
Speaker 2: is born of a virgin December twenty fifth. He is
Speaker 2: crucified or not I think it's crucified, but he's killed
Speaker 2: and he's resurrected after three days. He's the savior of mankind.
Speaker 2: He's a shepherd with the crook and the you know,
Speaker 2: like the stick, like Jesus. He's a shepherd. He's virtually
Speaker 2: identical to Jesus. But here's the thing, the thing that
Speaker 2: I want the listener to remember. So a thousand years ago,
Speaker 2: this system from zoro aster is created, and there's a
Speaker 2: prophecy that says there will be a star in the east.
Speaker 2: And you know, we did just talk about this on
Speaker 2: the Revelations episode, which is why I was like Mithraism.
Speaker 2: So a thousand years later, the Magi come around and
Speaker 2: they're like, oh my god, there's a star in the east.
Speaker 2: They're telling King Herod, like the prophecy the Christ is born, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the Savior is born, Like he's here. We gotta follow
Speaker 2: the star. And King Herod's like, great, we're gonna kill
Speaker 2: every child in Israel. We're gonna kill literally every child
Speaker 2: in Israel. So the three Magi they follow the star
Speaker 2: and they're like, you need to get out of here.
Speaker 2: You need to go to Egypt, you know, So they
Speaker 2: escape to Egypt. But anyway, I wanted to just kind
Speaker 2: of briefly touch on the notion that they're sort of
Speaker 2: like a trinity between Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, and Christianity. There is
Speaker 2: a very strong connection between these systems. The doctrines are
Speaker 2: virtually the same, the story and system of the deity
Speaker 2: is the same, and I wanted to get that out
Speaker 2: of the way. So now, more specifically, on Mythraism. It
Speaker 2: obviously likely comes from Zoroastrianism. Mithra is associated with contracts,
Speaker 2: the light, truth, goodness, the intercessor between man and Ahuramazda.
Speaker 2: So obviously, because Alexander the Great conquered the Hellenistic world
Speaker 2: in or you know, took the Hellenistic world and conquered
Speaker 2: you know, Egypt and all these different surrounding nations, there
Speaker 2: was this transmission of Hellenistic thoughts spreading throughout Israel. You know,
Speaker 2: you have the New Testaments written in Greek, the Greek
Speaker 2: magical purpyrie are spreading everywhere and all this. So there's
Speaker 2: this blending of Greek and Roman beliefs. So somehow or another,
Speaker 2: around the time of Christ, you have this Persian Iranian
Speaker 2: story of Mithra and and her Amazda, and you know,
Speaker 2: you go to Rome and it's like all the Romans
Speaker 2: are down with it, you know, That's what I'm getting at.
Speaker 2: The Romans are just like.
Speaker 3: Then, Mithraism kind of emerged out of the same place
Speaker 3: as Zoroastrianism too, like Persian Persia Iran it's roots, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: But it ended up like being really popular in Rome, right.
Speaker 2: Fun fact, there's at least one Roman emperor who was
Speaker 2: initiated into the mysteries of Mythrust fully gone through the process.
Speaker 3: That's wild. Yeah, it was, that's heard of.
Speaker 2: It was super popular amongst the Roman elite. So that's
Speaker 2: the whole point. Like, you know, Alexander the Great comes around,
Speaker 2: he starts just dominating, and then you know, this Greek
Speaker 2: and Roman thought starts just blowing up in this ancient world.
Speaker 2: And you know the next thing, you know, the Romans
Speaker 2: are like they they have cults of Isis. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: they eventually they take over. They're like, you know, I know,
Speaker 2: we like slaughtered Christ, but actually you know, and then
Speaker 2: they created the pope and they're like, I'm the god
Speaker 2: on Earth, the god honor. Like that's just that's how
Speaker 2: the Romans did him.
Speaker 3: And they liked to party, party.
Speaker 2: But it's just crazy when you think about it, like yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure, no no doubt. But yeah, so it becomes
Speaker 2: established in the Roman Empire. Talking back to Mithraism, it's
Speaker 2: established as like this very mysterious, high society Roman elite thing,
Speaker 2: especially among soldiers merchants. His imagery begins to morph talking
Speaker 2: about Mythra or Mythrust the deity, showing him as this
Speaker 2: heroic uh new like icon where he's slaying a bull.
Speaker 2: There's this image of his sword in a bull's throat.
Speaker 2: There's this dog like drinking the dripping blood of the bull.
Speaker 2: There's a scorpion latched onto the bowl. There's all this
Speaker 2: like symbolic stuff that we'll get into a little bit later.
Speaker 2: It is a mystery religion, so its rights and teachings
Speaker 2: are kept secret from the outside, so there's virtually no
Speaker 2: surviving written material about what they believed, their actual doctrine,
Speaker 2: their practices, whatever. And then obviously all of their places
Speaker 2: of worship are temples that are built underground in caves,
Speaker 2: sepulchers and tombs. Interesting that Zoroaster went into a cave
Speaker 2: and he found God Mithraic and Christianity in its early
Speaker 2: days were underground and caves. Now, what we haven't talked
Speaker 2: about yet or ever on the show is there is
Speaker 2: actually a very strong, second, very highly probable, real version
Speaker 2: of Jesus' birth which places him as being born in
Speaker 2: a cave.
Speaker 3: What do you talk what is that?
Speaker 2: So? I have this friend named doctor George Ervos, who
Speaker 2: is a professor at U and CW, and he is
Speaker 2: actually one of the professors. I mean, I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: a small handful throughout the world who have this level
Speaker 2: of access and credential. He actually has been permitted to
Speaker 2: study like original Dead Sea scrolls, manuscripts and Nagamadi texts,
Speaker 2: like like literally like ancient papyrae, and there's this old
Speaker 2: scroll called the the proto Vangelium of James the Brother
Speaker 2: of Jesus. It's like a real ancient scroll, like he
Speaker 2: showed my dad, Like he he has all these like
Speaker 2: xerox pds from this papyrae, and he has this like
Speaker 2: massive two volume book that took him years to write,
Speaker 2: where basically he goes through and he shows you he
Speaker 2: went through all these different ancient manuscripts and like had
Speaker 2: him earmarked like yeah, hundreds, if not thousands of references
Speaker 2: of Jesus being born in a cave and in the
Speaker 2: protovin Jellium of James the Brother of Jesus. It talks
Speaker 2: about you know, basically Mary is uh, she's you know,
Speaker 2: she's going through she's late in her pregnancy, she's on
Speaker 2: her way to Jerusalem or Bethlehem or whatever. As the
Speaker 2: story goes, they make it to mile marker three, you're
Speaker 2: like mile marker three. What the heck? Well, you know
Speaker 2: we use the Roman imperial system right in America. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 2: they had mile markers and you know Rome built all
Speaker 2: those roads, like they had elaborate mile marking systems between
Speaker 2: towns measuring. They had actual literal mile markers between all
Speaker 2: the cities.
Speaker 3: You wouldn't think, I like that would exist in ancient times.
Speaker 2: It's like what And in this ancient two thousand year
Speaker 2: old manuscript, it says that they stop at a cave
Speaker 2: at mile marker three. She goes into the cave. Boof
Speaker 2: out pops Jesus in a flash of light and he's
Speaker 2: walking around and he's like five years old. Oh he's
Speaker 2: talking and he's it's it's a real like ancient gospel.
Speaker 2: What And that's just one example of the idea of
Speaker 2: Jesus being born in the cave.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's crazy. No manger, no nativity. Well,
Speaker 3: I mean that's that's a that's a possibility, sure. But
Speaker 3: the fact that, like you've all always heard, it's like
Speaker 3: some some stable and like a manger and like all
Speaker 3: this stuff is, but it being a cave would would
Speaker 3: match up with a lot of other like Savior kind
Speaker 3: of sense origin. Yeah, that's really wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's not the only thing popped out in
Speaker 2: these five years old What the hell he's talking? And
Speaker 2: yeah like that, it's called a dosetic appearance. In other words,
Speaker 2: there was a belief among some sex in the ancient
Speaker 2: world that Jesus dosetic means like to supernaturally appear. Yeah, Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm here. Poof, Yeah, I'm here, poff, like I exist
Speaker 2: here now.
Speaker 3: In a flash of light too. That's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, smoke filled the cave, flash of light, boom out,
Speaker 2: pops Jesus. That's just one example of an ancient text
Speaker 2: indicating that Jesus may have been born in a cave. Now,
Speaker 2: we have to consider of all four of the Gospels,
Speaker 2: which is a very small number that we have access to,
Speaker 2: not even they agree about his birth. Only one of them,
Speaker 2: at most two of them even tell the major stories. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's it's either Matthew or Luke or both of.
Speaker 3: Them, right. And if there's thousands, they don't even agree, no, Yeah,
Speaker 3: And if there's thousands of accounts of him being born
Speaker 3: in a cave, like thousands of ear marks, like you said,
Speaker 3: like there were all it might have been hundreds. I'll
Speaker 3: have to double check, but it's a lot, even if
Speaker 3: it's dozens, even if it's one. Yeah, well yeah, it's
Speaker 3: still crazy. Yeah. The fact that we basically have two
Speaker 3: books out of the Bible at most too, that mentioned
Speaker 3: like oh yeah, it was like some like stable, you know,
Speaker 3: in a manger situation. It's like, okay, are we just
Speaker 3: going to take that on face?
Speaker 2: Well, even that doesn't make sense because based on you know,
Speaker 2: the fact that his birthday is December twenty fifth, there's
Speaker 2: no credibility to that, because historians and scholars agree that
Speaker 2: based on that story, he was probably realistically born in
Speaker 2: like I think it's early fall or late summer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've always heard summer, like summer is of.
Speaker 2: Course they picked actually when they were Constantine.
Speaker 3: Picked, I was they chose December twenty fifth. Constantine did
Speaker 3: what was that meeting called? Didn't they call it something?
Speaker 2: It's I'm not sure about that specific, but maybe the
Speaker 2: Council of Naiah.
Speaker 3: There's something yea yea, something like that. But yeah, they
Speaker 3: just chose.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, because and Methris were born on December twenty fifth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also didn't it wasn't it something about it
Speaker 3: aligned with some sort of the Winter Solstice. Well, yeah,
Speaker 3: the Winter Solstice, but also like the Druidic there were,
Speaker 3: you know, the Druids obviously like I don't I wouldn't
Speaker 3: say worship, but they like revered the solstices, and I
Speaker 3: thought that there was some sort of Druidic holiday that
Speaker 3: took place on December twenty fifth, and they kind of
Speaker 3: wanted to mask over it with their own holiday.
Speaker 2: We talked about that on the Spirit of Christmas episode. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I think it was a Roman thing. Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure, but I do know that the Winter Solstice
Speaker 2: starts on December twenty first.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the darkest.
Speaker 2: Day of the year. Every year the sun goes into retrograde,
Speaker 2: it begins to to descend beneath the horizon or die right.
Speaker 2: For three days it's in the underworld, and then on
Speaker 2: December twenty fifth, it rises back up above the horizon
Speaker 2: and it begins it's upward descent towards you know, the
Speaker 2: summer solstice. Yeah, so you have the story of the
Speaker 2: dying Christ. It descends into the realms of the underworld
Speaker 2: for three days and it's born again.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyway, that's just some deep stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is, it is. Yeah. The point is that
Speaker 3: they just they chose that date and it just it's
Speaker 3: pretty eerie that it just happens to line up with
Speaker 3: Mithraism and Zoroastrianism and it's yea, yeah, it's pretty compelling.
Speaker 2: It is. So there are seven initiation levels with their
Speaker 2: own rituals and symbolism will get a little bit more
Speaker 2: into those later. As Christianity is becoming more dominant and
Speaker 2: is beginning to gain imperial or Roman support. In the
Speaker 2: three hundreds, the Roman officials start to supper myth Raism
Speaker 2: and all the other mystery systems. Right, so Constantine's Edict
Speaker 2: of Milan establishes religious tolerance. In other words, Constantine comes
Speaker 2: in and he says, hey, it is no longer legal
Speaker 2: to kill Christians. They have the freedom to express their religion.
Speaker 2: And then it was in like three hundred and eighty three,
Speaker 2: I believe, or maybe it was three eighty one when
Speaker 2: Emperor Theodosius comes in and he was like, okay, we
Speaker 2: are officially Christians. This is our religion. Everybody, we are
Speaker 2: Christian people. And he makes it the state thing, you know,
Speaker 2: mandated for real, he does. So they begin once they
Speaker 2: officially become Christian, they start to ban all the other practices,
Speaker 2: and that starts the process of destroying mythraic temples.
Speaker 3: Right, So that's all sorts of temples.
Speaker 2: Right, But that's what I'm saying. There's not much that
Speaker 2: has survived about Mithraism like at all. It all got
Speaker 2: burned away and destroyed pretty much. By the early fifth century,
Speaker 2: it mostly disappears. The temples are all basically destroyed. The
Speaker 2: practic this is fade. Christianity is now becoming the dominant
Speaker 2: thing across the Roman Empire. This kind of feels like, uh,
Speaker 2: this kind of feels like Star Wars, doesn't it when
Speaker 2: like it does Order sixty six. Yeah, it kind of
Speaker 2: feels like that a little bit. And then there's like
Speaker 2: forty years of I don't.
Speaker 3: Think I ever like made that connection. That's a good.
Speaker 2: The old way is like snuffed out.
Speaker 3: Dude. Oh my god, they're called the empire. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, what the hell?
Speaker 2: Well, dude, he's based it off all this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just like the connection is happening in my
Speaker 3: brain right now, Like, yeah, that Order sixty six is Jedi.
Speaker 2: Or like the old you know, the old tradition.
Speaker 3: Isn't the legend that it was like Friday the thirteenth
Speaker 3: or whatever.
Speaker 2: That's the templars.
Speaker 3: Oh I thought this all happened at the same time.
Speaker 2: No, No, templars were in the thirteen hundred. Oh right,
Speaker 2: right right, But it's connected to this, Yeah, it's just
Speaker 2: a thousand years later, dude.
Speaker 3: That's crazy. It is like Order sixty six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, damn. And I didn't think about it in that
Speaker 2: context either, you know, like specifically about this, but I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, the shoe fits. Yeah, it is kind of
Speaker 2: like that, Like the Empire came in and snuffed everything out,
Speaker 2: and they're burning down all these libraries in Egypt and
Speaker 2: in the Middle East, and they.
Speaker 3: Destroyed the freaking Jedi library.
Speaker 1: Bro.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for real, they did. They actually did. And then
Speaker 2: in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries there were some archaeological
Speaker 2: digs where they found some like temples with inscriptions on
Speaker 2: the wall. And that's what I was talking about in
Speaker 2: the Revelations episode. I know you probably don't remember, because
Speaker 2: you know, we say a lot, but I was saying
Speaker 2: that the only surviving thing we have really about them
Speaker 2: is archaeological stuff where people go into tombs underground and
Speaker 2: there's these like star charts on these bulls with the
Speaker 2: depiction of Mithras slaying the bull, which it could be
Speaker 2: interpreted if you think about it. I might get my
Speaker 2: timeline messed up here, but I want to say, maybe
Speaker 2: you could look this up for me, Alex. Was it
Speaker 2: the age of Taurus before the Age of Pisces or
Speaker 2: was it the age of Aries. That's important to know
Speaker 2: because in the time of Moses and the other prophets
Speaker 2: leading up to Jesus there was this whole worship of
Speaker 2: the golden calf. It was, uh, you know, anything pop up,
Speaker 2: just like.
Speaker 3: All that bowl symbolism.
Speaker 5: The Age of Taurists began around forty three hundred BCE,
Speaker 5: and the Age of Pisces begin around one CE.
Speaker 2: So what was there anything in between? Aries?
Speaker 3: Maybe let me see, Yeah, I guess, just look up
Speaker 3: like when the age of Aries was Well, I mean, what,
Speaker 3: what's the order of the zodiac?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, me either, I really don't know. I don't either.
Speaker 2: I think it's I don't know.
Speaker 5: Uh, yeah, you're right. Aris is in between beginning at
Speaker 5: twenty one fifty BCE and ended in one CE. So
Speaker 5: it was Aries then Pisces.
Speaker 2: Okay, well that throws a wrench in what I was
Speaker 2: about to say. But there's an interpretation that the symbol
Speaker 2: of Mithrist slaying the bull symbolizes like and you know,
Speaker 2: like how the lady came to and she was like,
Speaker 2: I'm the divine feminine. You know everything she said, you know,
Speaker 2: I've already said it before, and she says basically that
Speaker 2: when the feminine comes back into balance, will be in peace.
Speaker 2: That there's like kind of an evil masculine warlike energy
Speaker 2: dominating the planet that we're suffering because those divine forces
Speaker 2: are out of balance. There's a theory that Mythrist slaying
Speaker 2: the bull symbolizes the like in an archetype of way,
Speaker 2: the slaying of the warlike aggressive animal, lower nature of consciousness,
Speaker 2: which is you know, war like violent whatever whatever whatever.
Speaker 2: It's like the subduing of those forces.
Speaker 3: Huh yeah. And I mean like popularly, Aris and Taurists
Speaker 3: are both considered like masculine energy signs. Like I mean
Speaker 3: especially you just think about like Aris, you know, the
Speaker 3: god of war. Right, we're going from that era to Pisces,
Speaker 3: like and also are.
Speaker 2: Now we're going to the water bearer.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's like, it's not to say if
Speaker 2: we have mostly men listening to the show, it's not
Speaker 2: to say anything like that. It's just to say that
Speaker 2: there has to be balance in all things. We can't
Speaker 2: deny that there isn't war fucking ravage in the world
Speaker 2: right now, and hasn't been for two thousand years. It's
Speaker 2: just a fact, you know that. That's that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: You know, like, it's just it's it's got to come
Speaker 2: to an end. Come on, people, come on, get it together.
Speaker 2: So myth rate doctrine, all right, dude, get it together,
Speaker 2: the warmongers, the warriors. So the doctrine of mythraism, right,
Speaker 2: according this is from the secret teachings of all ages.
Speaker 2: According to the Persians, there coexisted in eternity to principles.
Speaker 2: The first of these, a horror Ada or or MusD,
Speaker 2: was the spirit of good. From Ormuzd came forth a
Speaker 2: number of hierarchies of good and beautiful spirits, our angels
Speaker 2: and archangels. The second of these eternally existing principles was
Speaker 2: called Ariman. He was also a pure and beautiful spirit
Speaker 2: like Lucifer, but he later rebelled against Ormusd, being jealous
Speaker 2: of his power. Rather, shit's one thousand years older.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just saying straight up the same story.
Speaker 2: This did not occur, however, until after Ormuzd had created light.
Speaker 2: For previously, Ariman had not been conscious of the existence
Speaker 2: of Ormuzd. Let me read that again, because that one
Speaker 2: kind of did a little glitch in my brain. This
Speaker 2: did not occur, however until after Ormusd had created light.
Speaker 2: For previously, Ahriman had not been conscious of the existence
Speaker 2: of ormust. Okay, you know what in the Gnostic episode,
Speaker 2: that reminds me of the demiurge being born and not
Speaker 2: being aware of the god above him. Very interesting, very
Speaker 2: interesting connection. Because of his jealousy in rebellion, Ariman became
Speaker 2: the spirit of evil from himself. He individualized a host
Speaker 2: of destructive creatures to injure or MusD. When Ormusd or
Speaker 2: we could say Ahuramazda created the earth, Araman entered into
Speaker 2: its grosser elements. Grosser meaning like subtle, like oh yeah, yeah, fine, yeah,
Speaker 2: like the crude elements, the you know, earth, the material.
Speaker 2: Whenever ORMUSD did a good deed, Ariman placed the principle
Speaker 2: of evil within it. At last, when Ormust created the
Speaker 2: human race, Ariman became incarnate in the lower nature of man,
Speaker 2: so that in each personality, the spirit of good in
Speaker 2: the spirit of evil struggle for control. For three thousand years,
Speaker 2: Ormusd ruled the celestial worlds with light and goodness. Then
Speaker 2: he created man. For another three hundred years, he ruled
Speaker 2: man with wisdom and integrity. Then the power of Ariman
Speaker 2: began in the s struggle for soul of man continues
Speaker 2: through the next period of three thousand years. During the
Speaker 2: fourth period of three thousand years, the power of Ariman
Speaker 2: will be destroyed. Good will return to the world again,
Speaker 2: and evil and death will be vanquished. And at last,
Speaker 2: the spirit of evil will bow humbly before the throne
Speaker 2: of Ormuzd. While Ormuzd and Ariman are struggling for control
Speaker 2: of the human soul and for supremacy in nature, Mythris,
Speaker 2: the god of intelligence, stands as mediator between the two.
Speaker 2: Many authors have noted the similarity between mercury and Mythrs,
Speaker 2: as the chemical mercury acts as a solvent according to alchemists,
Speaker 2: so Mythris seeks to harmonize the two celest opposites. So
Speaker 2: there's something really interesting to note here. They just gave
Speaker 2: us a period of twelve thousand years. Now there is
Speaker 2: an idea that society might be only about twelve thousand
Speaker 2: years old. And they said in that last three thousand
Speaker 2: year cycle that the power of Ariman would be destroyed
Speaker 2: and then peace would rain eternal.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: That's very interesting because if you go by the fact
Speaker 2: that zoroastronism began literally three thousand years ago, you could
Speaker 2: argue that we are now at the end of that
Speaker 2: final three thousand year period.
Speaker 6: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's also fascinating that you said that the
Speaker 3: Age of Taurus was like four thousand SCNBC, right, and
Speaker 3: then was the Age of Aries, right, and then after
Speaker 3: that the Age of Pisces, which the end of the
Speaker 3: Age of Aries would have been the birth of Christ
Speaker 3: towards the end, and then it's ushering in the Age
Speaker 3: of Pisces. So it's kind of interesting. The bull Taurus
Speaker 3: is being slain by Mithra. The period of time when
Speaker 3: Jesus was born was that Aris period, so it's like
Speaker 3: that era that age killed, the Age of the Bull
Speaker 3: and ushered in the Age of Pieces. That's pretty wild
Speaker 3: symbolically that it matches up that way. Yeah, that at
Speaker 3: the end of that Age of Aries is when Christ
Speaker 3: came or Mithra right and ushered in the like killed
Speaker 3: the age of the Bull and ushered in the Age
Speaker 3: of Pieces. That's kind of wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is interesting, Like I didn't.
Speaker 3: Think about it. It's in the middle.
Speaker 2: Because mith Raism would have began in the period following
Speaker 2: the period it would have begun in Aries.
Speaker 3: That's yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: And it like it. It had the end of its
Speaker 2: reign at the end of Aries, you know, it started
Speaker 2: getting stuffed out and then Jesus was born. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that's what That's how the symbology is mapping
Speaker 3: out in my brain. At least I'm picturing obviously the
Speaker 3: age of Taurus as the bull. The Age of Aries
Speaker 3: is Mithra like the birth of Mithra, and and then
Speaker 3: it is it is killing that age and going into
Speaker 3: the next stage. It immediately follows with the Age of
Speaker 3: Pieces like one ce literally one is when Pissi starts. Yeah,
Speaker 3: immediately after you know what, thirty years after the birth
Speaker 3: of Christ slash mythro.
Speaker 2: It's also interesting to think though that we have all this,
Speaker 2: you know, talk about Age of Aquarius coming up, and
Speaker 2: all these different you know, you have revelations, you have
Speaker 2: Hopee prophecy, all these different systems, the Hindu star chart
Speaker 2: talking about the Cali Yuga, you know, maybe ending in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. And then you have this where literally
Speaker 2: three thousand years ago that Persian prophet Zoroaster gave this
Speaker 2: prophecy and put it out there that there are four
Speaker 2: three thousand year periods and after the end of the fourth,
Speaker 2: during the fourth period of three thousand years which is now, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the dark force, the power of Ariman, will be destroyed
Speaker 2: and good will return to the world again. So it's
Speaker 2: just another like notch on the wall of like things
Speaker 2: adding up to prophecy unfolding and like a golden age coming.
Speaker 2: I don't like to think about it as you know,
Speaker 2: bad times ahead. No no, no, no, it's good times I had.
Speaker 2: It's the Golden age. Yeah, yeah, but very interesting, also
Speaker 2: cool how they make the parallel between mythrus and mercury, you.
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, solve it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mercury is it's this. It's a mutable metal. It
Speaker 2: can be a liquid, it could be solid. It's it's
Speaker 2: it's quicksilver. Like, it can change forms depending on heat
Speaker 2: and pressure applied to it. So we are like you know, mercury.
Speaker 2: It's it's the transformation of the soul with that heat
Speaker 2: with with with pressure applied, we can transmute.
Speaker 3: It's based on what we apply to it. Yeah, the
Speaker 3: form that it takes, right, that's really cool.
Speaker 2: So moving on. There are many points of resemblance between
Speaker 2: Christianity and the cults of Mythrus. One of the reasons
Speaker 2: for this probably is that the Persian mystics invaded Italy
Speaker 2: during the first century after Christ, and the early history
Speaker 2: of both cults was closely interwoven. The Encyclopedia Britannica makes
Speaker 2: the following statement concerning the Mithraic and Christian mysteries. The
Speaker 2: fraternal and democratic spirit of the first communities and their
Speaker 2: humble origin. The identification of the object of adoration with
Speaker 2: light in the sun, the legends of the shepherds with
Speaker 2: their gifts and adoration, the flood in the arc, the
Speaker 2: representation in art of the fiery chariot chariot, the drawing
Speaker 2: of water from the rock, the use of bell and
Speaker 2: candle holy water in the communion, the sanctification of Sunday
Speaker 2: and of the twenty fifth of December. The insistence on
Speaker 2: mortal conduct, the emphasis placed on abstinence and self control,
Speaker 2: the doctrine of heaven and Hell, of primitive revelation, of
Speaker 2: the mediation of the logos emanating from the divine, the
Speaker 2: atoning sacrifice, the constant warfare between good and evil, and
Speaker 2: the final triumph of the four I lost my spot
Speaker 2: for a second, the final triumph of the Former, the
Speaker 2: immortality of the soul, the last judgment, the resurrection of
Speaker 2: the flesh, and the fiery destruction of the universe. These
Speaker 2: are some of the resemblances which, whether real or only apparent,
Speaker 2: enabled Mithraism to prolong its resistance to Christianity. The rites
Speaker 2: of Mythrusts were performed in caves. Porphyry, in his Cave
Speaker 2: of the Nymphs, states that Zarathustra or Zoroaster was the
Speaker 2: first to consecrate a cave to the worship of God
Speaker 2: because a cavern was symbolic of the earth or the
Speaker 2: lower world of darkness. John P. Lundy and his Monumental
Speaker 2: Christianity describes the cave of Mythrus's follows, but this cave
Speaker 2: was adorned with the signs of the zodiac Cancer and Capricorn.
Speaker 2: That is, I believe the summer and winter solstices and
Speaker 2: equinox to the summer and winter solstices were chiefly conspicuous
Speaker 2: as the gates of souls descending into this life or
Speaker 2: passing out of it in their ascent to the gods,
Speaker 2: Cancer being the gate of decent, and Capricorn of acent.
Speaker 2: These are the two avenues of the immortals, passing up
Speaker 2: and down from Earth to heaven and from heaven to earth.
Speaker 2: The most famous sculptures and reliefs of this proto proto
Speaker 2: tokos I guess that's a Greek word, shows mythrus kneeling
Speaker 2: upon the recumbent form of a great bull, into whose
Speaker 2: throat he is driving his sword. The slaying of the
Speaker 2: bulls signifies that the rays of the Sun, symbolized by
Speaker 2: the sword, release at the vernal equinox the vital essences
Speaker 2: of the earth. The blood of the bull, which pouring
Speaker 2: from the wound made by the Sun god, fertilized the
Speaker 2: seeds of living things. Dogs were held sacred to the
Speaker 2: cult of Mythris, being symbolic of sincerity and trustworthiness. The
Speaker 2: Mythraics used the serpent as an emblem of Ariman, the
Speaker 2: spirit of evil, and water rats were held sacred to him.
Speaker 2: The bull is esoterically the constellation of Taurus. The serpent
Speaker 2: its opposite in the zodiac Scorpio. The sun is Mythris
Speaker 2: entering into the side of the bull, slays the celestial
Speaker 2: creature and nourishes the universe with its blood. Remember, in
Speaker 2: the very beginning we talked about how there's this connection
Speaker 2: between all these other esoteric societies coming back from the
Speaker 2: times of Atlantis, who typically were known to create allegories
Speaker 2: about the Sun, sun, god, solar force, solar deities. Right,
Speaker 2: So they're saying here Mythris represents the Sun moving through
Speaker 2: the cosmos. So these are just a list of actual
Speaker 2: doctrines of Mithraism here. So you have cosmic dualism. Obviously,
Speaker 2: there's this eternal good, eternal evil, light and darkness. This
Speaker 2: cosmic struggle manifests in our earthly life. The followers of
Speaker 2: mithra are seeking to align themselves with the forces of light. Right,
Speaker 2: Mithris is a savior. He grants immortality to his followers. Again,
Speaker 2: this is what they believe. Yeah, I'm not saying this literally,
Speaker 2: but slaying of the bull, also known as the Taraktini,
Speaker 2: was central to this belief, as the bull's death symbolizes
Speaker 2: the release of life giving energies that nourish the cosmos.
Speaker 2: Mithraism has a strict hierarchy. Initiates progressed through seven ranks
Speaker 2: or grades, with symbolic meanings and associated rituals from the
Speaker 2: lowest to highest orders. They were Koraks or the raven, Nmphis,
Speaker 2: the bridegroom, Miles, the soldier, Leo, the lion, Persees, the
Speaker 2: Persian Heliodromus, the sun Runner, and Potter or the Father.
Speaker 2: Initiation ceremonies included symbolic tests of courage and endurance. Remember
Speaker 2: what we talked about where they might you know, in Greek,
Speaker 2: they might run through a labyrinth and someone's dressed as
Speaker 2: a minotaur. You know, if you're like Druid or you're
Speaker 2: in the Odentic mysteries, you might run out in the
Speaker 2: woods and you know you they might jump out at
Speaker 2: your dress like I don't know, like something something. But
Speaker 2: people died. These were very dangerous.
Speaker 3: That's dark.
Speaker 2: No, it was life and death to make it through
Speaker 2: these initiations. It is kind of dark when you think
Speaker 2: about it, like it was serious, dude, Like people literally died,
Speaker 2: like only the worthy made it through the initiations. It
Speaker 2: wasn't a college fraternity.
Speaker 3: It was like, yeah, it's a whole different that's that's
Speaker 3: some hardcorez.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it was you didn't prove you're worthy.
Speaker 2: It was like it's like literally like no, you had
Speaker 2: to be worthy to earn the secret doctrine. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: life or death literally loosely sink ships.
Speaker 1: Bro.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're lucky you made it through that initiation alive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like seriously, like people drowned, burned to death, like
Speaker 2: they would have like traps, Like, soy survived.
Speaker 3: Man, man, I'm glad they didn't stuff you and that coffin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for real, dead, you might not have made it.
Speaker 2: I would have have. I might not have good, might
Speaker 2: not have not at eighteen years old, no way. So
Speaker 2: I had a strong astrological component. Obviously, the bowl the
Speaker 2: taroctiny is like a star chart with the zodiac allegory.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: Mythris's actions were believed to influence the movements of the
Speaker 2: celestial bodies. The seven rings corresponded to the seven classical
Speaker 2: planets and the Taroctany scene may have represented the cosmic
Speaker 2: events tied to the seasonal cycles, like the vernal equinox
Speaker 2: and the solstice. They had a shared ritual meal, sometimes
Speaker 2: compared very closely to the Christian Eucharist. It's an importan
Speaker 2: part of the Mithraic worship system. This meal likely involved
Speaker 2: bread and wine and symbolized communion with Mythris. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that's a little on the news. Well, dude, the same
Speaker 2: with Dionysus.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just it's just wild that they all match
Speaker 3: up so exactly. This one is remarkably like identical.
Speaker 2: The crazy part is like Christians literally worshiped in their tombs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in Mythraic tombs. Yeah, yeah, literally, and it's practically
Speaker 3: the same religion. Yeah, like there have been. There's almost
Speaker 3: nothing that's different so far, like except the names and stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah for real, even a lot of the symbology, like
Speaker 3: the fire and stuff, like like Jesus brought the Holy
Speaker 3: Spirit which is like described as fire, like the what
Speaker 3: do they call it?
Speaker 2: It's the Holy Spirit, the Pentecost Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Pentecost.
Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Obviously their rituals took place in underground temples or Mithraea,
Speaker 2: which symbolized the cave where Mythris performed the bull sacrifice.
Speaker 2: The cave represented the cosmos and served as a space
Speaker 2: where initiates could meditate on the mysteries of creation and
Speaker 2: cosmic order. Sun and light worship very closely associated with
Speaker 2: soul and Victus, which is the Roman son god who
Speaker 2: also has a birthday of December twenty fifth, which is
Speaker 2: who Emperor Constantine worshiped before he was a Christian, and
Speaker 2: he decreed Jesus' birthday would be the same as his soul.
Speaker 2: In Bictus the unconquered sun and was sometimes referred to
Speaker 2: as the light of the world. Like Jesus, Mithrais believed
Speaker 2: in the power of light to overcome darkness, and the
Speaker 2: Sun's movements were seen as symbolic of Mithris's own journey
Speaker 2: and struggles. So it's that astro theology, the story of
Speaker 2: the cosmos is telling the story of the divine right,
Speaker 2: like the stars and the celestial bodies and the heavens
Speaker 2: are showing us the story of God throughout the ages.
Speaker 2: That's astro theology. Mithraism likely promoted ethical conduct, courage, and battle.
Speaker 2: Many of its followers were soldiers, loyalty, camaraderie, and discipline
Speaker 2: were emphasized, aligning with Roman military virtuals virtues. If you
Speaker 2: looked at depictions of Mythris, he often wore a Phrygian cap,
Speaker 2: which I'm gonna show you what that is if you're
Speaker 2: not familiar, but it symbolized liberty and freedom, and you'll
Speaker 2: notice throughout the French Revolution they were Frigian caps symbolizing freedom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and speaking of which, you know that there are
Speaker 3: a lot of theories that the Statue of Liberty is Mythris.
Speaker 2: I've heard Lucifer, I've heard Mythris, I've heard Ishtar, but
Speaker 2: I mean the same thing.
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, same, same, all the same.
Speaker 3: But it's just interesting you said freedom and liberty. I
Speaker 3: was like, statue of liberty, it's I don't know, I
Speaker 3: saw a thing on it recently. Actually, oh my god,
Speaker 3: why am I blanket Sam Tripley with recent Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's wild. Look at that face kind of looks like
Speaker 3: statue of liberty.
Speaker 2: Yeah it does. Actually you see the stars on his cape?
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Driving the sword into the bull's throat and the dog
Speaker 2: is licking the blood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny. I recently saw a video He's got
Speaker 3: a free jing cap. Yeah. I saw a video of
Speaker 3: Sam Tripley talking about how the Statue of Liberty is
Speaker 3: Mythris and they pulled that exact picture wow and showed it.
Speaker 3: I think he was on Rogan talking about it.
Speaker 2: Oh cool. Yeah, he was just on Joe Rogan. Yeah,
Speaker 2: very cool.
Speaker 3: That was interesting and pretty wild that I just happened
Speaker 3: to see that this week before we did this episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is because I haven't caught that one. That's
Speaker 2: really cool.
Speaker 3: Uh huh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to breathe through some of their rituals
Speaker 2: and initiations, and then we're going to round out with
Speaker 2: the parallels of Mithraism to other traditions, including Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism.
Speaker 2: So initiation into the rights of Mythris, like initiation into
Speaker 2: many other ancient schools of philosophy, apparently consisted of three
Speaker 2: important degrees. Preparation for these degrees consisted of self purification,
Speaker 2: the building up of the intellectual powers, and the control
Speaker 2: of the animal nature. In the first degree, the candidate
Speaker 2: was given a crown upon the point of a sword
Speaker 2: and instructed in the mysteries of Mithris' hidden power. Probably
Speaker 2: he was taught that the golden crown represented his own
Speaker 2: spiritual nature, which must be objectified and unfolded before he
Speaker 2: could truly glorify Mythris. For Mithris was his own soul,
Speaker 2: standing as mediator between Ormuzd his spirit, and Ariman, his
Speaker 2: animal nature. So what Manly p. Hall is telling you
Speaker 2: here is like you are Christ, you are Orpheus, you
Speaker 2: are thor or Odin or whatever.
Speaker 3: You are.
Speaker 2: This divine being, and there are two natures of your soul.
Speaker 2: It's God and the devil, or it's Ariman and hera Amazdo,
Speaker 2: or it's lucifer in Christ. And it's like you have
Speaker 2: the choice if you want live in heaven or hell,
Speaker 2: or if you want to be you know, aligned with
Speaker 2: God and live a high vibrational life and as sind
Speaker 2: out of this earthly reality, or if you want to
Speaker 2: be trapped in your lower nature and aligned with the
Speaker 2: negative vibration. Yeah, and that's just the right, yeah, like
Speaker 2: Plato's cave, right, yeah, which is another interesting parallel to
Speaker 2: the cave.
Speaker 3: All these caves. Dude, we got to go to a cave,
Speaker 3: we do, dude, Let's go to a cave.
Speaker 2: I've been to the one in Uh. I've been to
Speaker 2: Limvil caverns.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's beautiful, it's cool, gorgeous, Yeah, so beautiful.
Speaker 2: There's a story there that I thought was just really
Speaker 2: mind blowing how they were in like the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: There were these two guys that were trapped in there
Speaker 2: for weeks in.
Speaker 3: The darkness inland story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know how they got out.
Speaker 3: I don't remember.
Speaker 2: They follow the trickling water, smart in the darkness.
Speaker 3: Let's go get lost in a cave.
Speaker 5: No, just for the just for the listener. I have
Speaker 5: been in there. It's so dark. They tell you to
Speaker 5: put your hand in front of your face and then
Speaker 5: they turn the lights out and you cannot see your
Speaker 5: own hand inches from your face.
Speaker 2: Yeaheah, it is. It's in a mountain.
Speaker 3: Black, complete and total darkness. No light gets in.
Speaker 2: They were trapped in there for like days or weeks,
Speaker 2: and they followed it. We're talking eighteen hundred. The fish
Speaker 2: in the water can't see because they don't need to. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you would go insand if, like, if you got lost
Speaker 2: in there, you would. I think you can pay for
Speaker 2: the experience to go in there and experience the blackout darkness.
Speaker 2: I didn't do that.
Speaker 5: It's part of the tour, really, Yeah, for free, they
Speaker 5: turn the lights off for like ten seconds.
Speaker 2: I don't think my tour did that. I didn't get
Speaker 2: total dark.
Speaker 3: Why and those two guys just like pull out their iPhones.
Speaker 2: Because it was eighteen hundreds they have I don't think so.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think it sounds like they're idiots
Speaker 5: to me.
Speaker 2: I think they had candles, and they had the little
Speaker 2: thing I can't remember what you call it where you
Speaker 2: put it on your eye and you pull the stick
Speaker 2: in it like shows a different picture of like a boudoir.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a headlamp.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm talking about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you don't remember.
Speaker 2: They had little peep shows.
Speaker 3: I don't remember those.
Speaker 2: Yeahs, they had a little peep shows. Pulled a stack
Speaker 2: up girl, you don't have one?
Speaker 5: Yeah, No one ever asked him what they were doing
Speaker 5: in there to get lost.
Speaker 3: I mean they're probably just playing. They're probably just the
Speaker 3: role playing yeah Yellowstone style.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, dude. They're probably in their role playing
Speaker 2: and just seeking for sek jesus. I'm they're searching or
Speaker 2: they're seeking for Jesus. That's what I'm trying to must be,
Speaker 2: must be a leap heer. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean
Speaker 2: you know that. I'm just gonna keep digging, keep digging.
Speaker 2: They're seeking Jesus. That's what I was trying to say.
Speaker 3: You did it. You got there.
Speaker 2: I finally got there.
Speaker 3: Man. I'm proud of you.
Speaker 2: Mithress was his own soul, standing as mediator between Ormost
Speaker 2: and his spirit, and arm on his animal nature. In
Speaker 2: the second degree, he was given the armor of intelligence
Speaker 2: and purity and sent into the darkness of subterranean pits
Speaker 2: to fight the beasts of lust, passion, and degeneracy. In
Speaker 2: the third degree, he was given a cape upon which
Speaker 2: were drawn or woven the signs of the zodiac and
Speaker 2: other astronomical symbols. I just showed you that he had
Speaker 2: the cape with the stars. After his initiations were over,
Speaker 2: he was hailed as one who had risen from the dead,
Speaker 2: was instructed in the secret teachings of the Persian mystics,
Speaker 2: and became a full fledged member of the order. Candidates
Speaker 2: who successfully passed the Mithraic initiations were called lions and
Speaker 2: were marked upon their foreheads with the Egyptian cross or
Speaker 2: its a towel cross. Mithris himself is often pictured with
Speaker 2: the head of a lion and two pairs of wings.
Speaker 2: Throughout the entire ritual were repeated references to the birth
Speaker 2: of Mithris as the Sun God, his sacrifice for man,
Speaker 2: his death that men might have eternal life, and lastly,
Speaker 2: his resurrection and the saving of all humanity by his
Speaker 2: intercession before the throne of Ormust. I really think that
Speaker 2: the ancients, I'm talking the way ancients, like Atlantean times,
Speaker 2: knew ahead of time that there was gonna be a
Speaker 2: shift in the cycle, and they put the word out
Speaker 2: like at the end of the ages when things get
Speaker 2: really really bad, there is a savior. There's gonna be
Speaker 2: this force that's gonna come and it has the power
Speaker 2: to wake you up from ignorance, to bring you out
Speaker 2: of that cave of darkness, to raise your spiritual abilities
Speaker 2: where you can subjugate your animal nature. And then when
Speaker 2: times get really tough, you know the light's gonna come
Speaker 2: through and it's gonna flip a switch and you know
Speaker 2: the world will be saved or whatever. I think that
Speaker 2: word was put out like longer than we can even
Speaker 2: fathom for a time, and over time that story has
Speaker 2: been adopting different cultural faces.
Speaker 5: Faces, Yeah, figures.
Speaker 3: Like each each age has its own avatar that acts
Speaker 3: as the catalyst. Yeah, into the next day because it's
Speaker 3: the same story. Yeah, it's the cycle of good and evil.
Speaker 2: It can't yeah exactly. Yeah, it came from somewhere. This
Speaker 2: story came from somewhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it didn't just start out of nowhere. And it
Speaker 3: seems to predate, like all everything, everything, you can keep
Speaker 3: digging back further and further and further. There is always
Speaker 3: some mystery tradition or some some religion that is talking
Speaker 3: about this exact same cycle of light.
Speaker 2: Dude, Babylon had a version of this story, and Babylon
Speaker 2: is like literally, you know.
Speaker 3: The oldest that's as far back as we can.
Speaker 2: Right Mesopotamia, Like it's it's got to be this, It's
Speaker 2: got to be. In my opinion, just thinking about like
Speaker 2: the esoteric doctrine, I think it is a true story
Speaker 2: that exists beyond time and space, and for the last
Speaker 2: two thousand years we've had it pushed to us this
Speaker 2: one way, like when you lift the veil, you see
Speaker 2: that like, oh wow, this has been told literally like
Speaker 2: in every era in human history.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we only know the stuff that we've talked about
Speaker 3: in this age, right, just this age, nothing else. That's
Speaker 3: all that we know. But you dig back into these
Speaker 3: older and older and older ages. It's written in the stars, right,
Speaker 3: It's written in the star. It's like we could go
Speaker 3: back to before humans were speaking, and it's it's in
Speaker 3: the stars, dude. That's like, that's what astro theology is.
Speaker 3: It's it's like this story has been written before there
Speaker 3: even were humans.
Speaker 2: I suspect that this is, you know, like some sort
Speaker 2: of spiritual simulation. You know, we can say whatever terminology
Speaker 2: we like. I don't mean like someone's sitting on a
Speaker 2: computer somewhere. But it's like, you know, a really spiritual, paranormal,
Speaker 2: supernatural thing where our soul all that higher self shit.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: We come here and we learn lessons, we grow, But
Speaker 2: there is like this collective destiny of the whole simulation too,
Speaker 2: that spans you know, every twelve or twenty six thousand
Speaker 2: years or what. And I suspect that it's like an
Speaker 2: eternal cycle that happens over and over and over and over,
Speaker 2: and this story survives each one, and it's like a
Speaker 2: guidepost for each version or iteration of civilization. And that's
Speaker 2: why it's manifesting in like literally every ancient culture in
Speaker 2: the world. It's written in the pyramids.
Speaker 3: Bro. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Literally. My dad has this friend named Robert Edward Grant.
Speaker 2: He's a really smart guy. He has a show on guy.
Speaker 2: I can't remember what it's called, but it's like a
Speaker 2: it's you could look him up Robert Edward Grant and
Speaker 2: long story short, I talked about him briefly on an
Speaker 2: episode a few months ago. I think it was the
Speaker 2: Stargate episode actually, but I didn't have the full story.
Speaker 2: I told you a story about how he put the
Speaker 2: Apple Vision pro on my dad's head at Contact in
Speaker 2: the Desert. Well, I actually messed it up when we
Speaker 2: did that episode. Here's what he really saw. He went
Speaker 2: into the Pyramids and he found there is a.
Speaker 5: There's a.
Speaker 2: I think it's like, dang, it's funny because I forgot
Speaker 2: one part when I was telling that episode, and now
Speaker 2: I forgot the part that I did tell in that episode.
Speaker 2: But I remember now the part that I forgot, So
Speaker 2: so whatever I said in this Stargate episode, I think
Speaker 2: it was like there's a bowl or maybe it's the sphinx,
Speaker 2: and there's this like ruby that's missing under the pall
Speaker 2: of the sphinx. Yeah, I remember the Codex, probably Robert
Speaker 2: Edward Grant.
Speaker 5: I think that's it.
Speaker 2: But there's an alpha and omega.
Speaker 3: In the pyramids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in higher glyphs on the wall, there's an alpha
Speaker 2: and an omega. Do you know what that means?
Speaker 3: Of course, the beginning, the.
Speaker 2: Right beginning, and then it shows the U this ruby
Speaker 2: that's supposed to be under the paw of the sphinx. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's I think it's like, you know, he's he's
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what is this ruby? What is
Speaker 2: his ruby? And Dad's like, well, I think it's Regulus.
Speaker 3: That's the star, the red Star.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm gonna get to that in a minute. But
Speaker 2: what I forgot to say, whatever I said about that
Speaker 2: stuff on the Star episode, I was kicking myself from
Speaker 2: the foot because I forgot to say the part about
Speaker 2: the alpha and omega in that. So if somebody could
Speaker 2: find the clip on the Starget episode where I'm talking
Speaker 2: about that very same thing, if you want to send
Speaker 2: it to me later, they'd be great because then I
Speaker 2: could remember everything I said there but there was an
Speaker 2: alpha and omega on that hieroglyph anyway, So now we're
Speaker 2: going to get into the parallels of Mithraism to other traditions.
Speaker 2: So the birth of Mithrus from Mend from Montfaucon's Antiquities,
Speaker 2: Mithrius was born out of a rock which, breaking open,
Speaker 2: permitted him to emerge, kind of like Wukong exactly. This
Speaker 2: occurred in the darkness of a subterranean chamber, so in
Speaker 2: a cave. The Church of Nativity at Bethlehem confirms the
Speaker 2: theory that Jesus was born in a grotto or a cave.
Speaker 2: According to Dupuis, Mithris was put to death by crucifixion
Speaker 2: and rose again on the third day. Come interesting to note, Nick,
Speaker 2: I told you about my friend George who wrote book
Speaker 2: and only published it a few years ago, about the
Speaker 2: Protovangelium of James, the brother of Jesus. This book was
Speaker 2: written in the nineteen twenties. I'm reading from the Secret
Speaker 2: Teachings of All Ages. Oh wow, and even Manly P.
Speaker 2: Hall is reading other corroborating resources about the story of
Speaker 2: Jesus being born in a cave. Yeah, so it's just
Speaker 2: another version of you know, but they put him in
Speaker 2: a manger. They put him with the farm animals, and
Speaker 2: you know who knows. Yeah, I don't know why they
Speaker 2: said that, but all that's important is that there are
Speaker 2: other iterations of his birth being in a cave. There's
Speaker 2: other iterations of his death too. Some of the gospels
Speaker 2: say he didn't even.
Speaker 3: Die, he just escaped, Yeah, just ascended.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or escaped and just kind of went on his way.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's like fifty different versions of Christ, and
Speaker 2: the Roman officials gave us four. And then in the
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties, these children were playing in the desert. They
Speaker 2: smashed up in these clay pots on accident, and all
Speaker 2: these scrolls fell out, and literally, yeah, there's like fifty
Speaker 2: different versions of Jesus. And it's like, oh, my god,
Speaker 2: you know which one is the real one?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: And then people are like, well, the ones that the Romans.
Speaker 3: Gave me why? You know why?
Speaker 2: Because my pastor said, right exactly. My pastor said, you.
Speaker 3: Know, the Bible, dude.
Speaker 2: When I was like eighteen, I asked my pastor about
Speaker 2: the Book of Enoch. He said, I shouldn't have done that,
Speaker 2: he said, he said, the Book of Enoch came straight
Speaker 2: out of the fires of the mouth of Hell.
Speaker 3: That's so dramatic. It's like the fires of the mouth
Speaker 3: or something like.
Speaker 2: That, the flames of Hell spit it right out of
Speaker 2: his mouth. And I was like, Okay, I mean that's.
Speaker 3: What we're like, we're made to believe because it's like
Speaker 3: the Gospel is pure and is wholly true, and anything
Speaker 3: that you add to it is just from Hell.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like what my pay up?
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, pass around the damn whatever that shit is
Speaker 3: called that bucket where you put.
Speaker 2: Your money in the tithe bucket, that one. What is
Speaker 2: that thing called the money bucket? The money bucket?
Speaker 3: Dude. I went to a church. One of the last
Speaker 3: times I went to church. I went to my grandma's church,
Speaker 3: and I swear to God, this is is so insane.
Speaker 3: They passed around two empty you know those giant containers
Speaker 3: that you buy cheeseballs in. They passed around two of those.
Speaker 3: And wait, it gets crazier. They made the men and
Speaker 3: women put money into different containers to yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my church did that with the little kids. That's
Speaker 2: the little kids would go around and but it was
Speaker 2: like little kids and they would collect change in corners
Speaker 2: and stuff, and then they would weigh it see if
Speaker 2: the boys or the girls.
Speaker 3: Collected, that's weird.
Speaker 2: It's different when it's kids though, it's kind of cute.
Speaker 2: But you know, when it's big cheeseball buckets and money,
Speaker 2: that's a different story. My church had like twenty people, right,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Put the kids to work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, early, it started the year in put your ass
Speaker 2: out of bed. What was my grandpa?
Speaker 5: Dude?
Speaker 2: One time, it was like on my fourteenth birthday too,
Speaker 2: or somewhere I know. It was the weekend of my
Speaker 2: fourteenth birthday. My grandpa walks in my room at like
Speaker 2: nine am on a Saturday. He said, get your lazy
Speaker 2: ass out of bed and cut the yard.
Speaker 3: Boy. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So you met my grandpa many times, dude. He was
Speaker 2: he was like six five and he was like four
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty. Can you imagine the terror waking up
Speaker 2: to him in your room yelling at you, I cut
Speaker 2: the grass. I bet you cut the grass.
Speaker 5: I bet you just described my dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. He's about six seven.
Speaker 5: I've been in that scenario exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But but Papa Ted had a fire to him. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh man. He was one of those people like when
Speaker 3: he talked you you better fucking listen, nobody challenge.
Speaker 5: Did I tell you what I did to get revenge?
Speaker 5: In the yard? No, my parents' backyard. There's a section
Speaker 5: you can't see. They'd never go back there, so they'd
Speaker 5: only see if they pulled up to the house, they
Speaker 5: could see down the sideyard in the section they couldn't see.
Speaker 5: I would write my name in the mower. With the mower,
Speaker 5: so I'd write my name weeks at a time, so
Speaker 5: the grass around my name would be like a foot tall,
Speaker 5: and it would be my name in the grass. And
Speaker 5: I was just praying that the Google Earth plane would
Speaker 5: come over here and take a picture of my name
Speaker 5: spread out over like forty feet.
Speaker 2: Your dad told me your grass talks to him, said,
Speaker 2: My plants talked to me. I'm almost down here. Boys,
Speaker 2: they're on the edge of their seat right now. Give
Speaker 2: them what I'm gonna give the people what they's around
Speaker 2: the money bucket, Wrap it up, cheese bucket. Yeah. So
Speaker 2: we're talking about the parallels between other systems, right, Like
Speaker 2: the ancient mysteries after which it was patterned. The Order
Speaker 2: of the Rose Cross possessed a secret ritual which was
Speaker 2: lived by the candidate for a prescribed number of years
Speaker 2: before he was eligible to the inner degrees of the society.
Speaker 2: The various floors of the Tower of Olympus represent the
Speaker 2: orbits of the planets. The ascent of the philosophers from
Speaker 2: one floor to another also parallels certain rituals of the
Speaker 2: Eleusinian mysteries and the Rights of Mythris, wherein the candidate
Speaker 2: ascended the seven rungs of a ladder or climbed the
Speaker 2: seven steps of a pyramid in order to signify release
Speaker 2: from the influences of the planetary governors. Man becomes the
Speaker 2: master of the seven spears only when he transmutes the
Speaker 2: impulses received from them. He who masters the seven worlds
Speaker 2: and is reunited with the divine source of his own nature,
Speaker 2: consummates the Hermitic the Hermitic marriage. Did I leave out
Speaker 2: the part about Mythris? There was there anything about mythrs?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: It was no, No, the rights of Mythrs? Wherein I was
Speaker 2: about to say, wait, I don't know a whole lot
Speaker 2: about Mythris. Okay, So TWU two, not twu, but two
Speaker 2: quotations will further establish the relationship existing between the mysteries
Speaker 2: of Serapis and those of other ancient peoples. The first
Speaker 2: is from Richard Payne Knight's Symbolical Language of Ancient Art
Speaker 2: and Mythology. Hence Varro in de Lingua Latina says that
Speaker 2: Coelum and Tera, that is universal mind and productive body,
Speaker 2: where the great gods of the Samothracian mysteries, and the
Speaker 2: same as Serapis and Isis of the later Egyptians, the
Speaker 2: tall TOAs and Astarte of the Phoenicians, and the Saturn
Speaker 2: and Ops of the Latins. The second quotation is from
Speaker 2: Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma Thee says Martianus Cappella in
Speaker 2: his Hymn to the Sun dwellers on the Nile adore
Speaker 2: as Serapis and Memphis, worships as Osiris and the sacred
Speaker 2: rites of Persia. Thou art Mythras in Phrygia Aetis and Libya,
Speaker 2: bows down to thee as Ammone and Phoenician Biblos as Adonis.
Speaker 2: Thus the whole world adores the under different names, the
Speaker 2: secret teachings of all ages. So the point I'm making
Speaker 2: is all of these different myth ritual mystery traditions are
Speaker 2: saying it's the same entity. Entity it's the same force,
Speaker 2: different the same being. Here's all the different names.
Speaker 3: Ye call it different ste different languages.
Speaker 2: Serapis, which is a bull adonnis. Yeah, and it goes
Speaker 2: on and on. There's more. I don't even know if
Speaker 2: I listed them all, So the rights of Mythris. When
Speaker 2: the Persian mysteries immigrated into Southern Europe, they were quickly
Speaker 2: assimilated by the Latin mind. The cult grew rapidly, especially
Speaker 2: among the Roman soldiery, and during the Roman Wars of Conquest,
Speaker 2: the teachings were carried by the legionaires to nearly all
Speaker 2: parts of Europe. So powerful did the cult of Mythris
Speaker 2: become that at least one Roman emperor was initiated into
Speaker 2: the order, which met in caverns under the city of Rome.
Speaker 2: Concerning the spread of this mystery school through different parts
Speaker 2: of Europe, c w King in his Gnostics, and their
Speaker 2: remains as Mithraic bas reliefs cut on the faces of
Speaker 2: rocks or on stone tablets, still abound in the countries
Speaker 2: formerly the western provinces of the Roman Empire. Many exist
Speaker 2: in Germany, still more in France and in this island Britain.
Speaker 2: They have often been discovered on the line of the
Speaker 2: picts Wall and the noted one of Bath. Alexander Wilder,
Speaker 2: in his Philosophy and Ethics of the Zoroasters, states that
Speaker 2: Mithris is the zend title for the Sun, and he
Speaker 2: is supposed to dwell with that shining orb. Mithris has
Speaker 2: a male and a female aspect, though not himself androgynous
Speaker 2: as Mythris. He is the ford of the Sun, powerful
Speaker 2: and radiant, and most significant of the Yazatas or the Ezods,
Speaker 2: or the guinea of the Sun as Mithra without the
Speaker 2: es at the end. As Mithra, this deity represents the
Speaker 2: feminine principle. The mundane universe is recognized as her symbol.
Speaker 2: She represents nature as receptive and terrestrial, and as fruitful
Speaker 2: only when bathed in the glory of the solar orb.
Speaker 2: This Mithraic cult is a simplification of the more elaborate
Speaker 2: teachings of Zarathustra, the Persian fire magician the Secret Teachings
Speaker 2: of All Ages. Now I'm gonna wrap us up here
Speaker 2: with something that I stumbled across in The Secret Teaching
Speaker 2: of All Ages, which, by the way, if you guys
Speaker 2: haven't picked up out there already, if you know that
Speaker 2: this isn't like the most badass esoteric book of all.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it again, this is the most badass
Speaker 2: esoteric book of all. And if you want to go deeper,
Speaker 2: you really really should read this book. It will blow
Speaker 2: your mind right out of your skull. And for many
Speaker 2: years I avoided this text. I don't think I was
Speaker 2: mature enough. A ready, Yeah, I just I can't recommend
Speaker 2: it enough.
Speaker 3: But we've been pulling a lot of heat from that
Speaker 3: one lately.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's literally like the encyclopedia of
Speaker 2: all of these different traditions. I mean, it's it's unbelievable,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's incredibly formative. And yeah, so I stumbled
Speaker 2: across this part, and this part genuinely blew my mind.
Speaker 2: And I'll get to why after I read it, although
Speaker 2: for some reason I'm having trouble pulling it up pulled on, Okay,
Speaker 2: there we go. I'm gonna get into why it blew
Speaker 2: my mind because it'll be pretty obvious after I read it.
Speaker 2: It has to do with the age of Aquarius and
Speaker 2: with the alignment between Regulus and those sphinxs. From a
Speaker 2: perspective of Manly P. Hall writing about Mythras, So I
Speaker 2: was like, Wow, Okay, this is crazy. And the more
Speaker 2: I dive into this stuff, the more I get the
Speaker 2: sense that this alignment is more than just a message
Speaker 2: from a lady, but it's actually something maybe more ancient.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a prophecy that has existed a long time ago,
Speaker 2: and the lady didn't come here and created in twenty twelve,
Speaker 2: but she just kind of made us aware of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I used to think about it really, Yeah, revealed you know,
Speaker 2: maybe this has been expected for a long time to come,
Speaker 2: not just twelve years, but anyway, from the secret teachings
Speaker 2: of all ages. The Honorable E. M. Plunket in ancient
Speaker 2: calendars and constellations says the scorpion, the constellation Scorpio of
Speaker 2: the zodiac, opposed to Taurus, joins with Mythris in his
Speaker 2: attack upon the bull, and always the guinea of the
Speaker 2: spring and autumn equinoxes are present in joyous and mournful attitudes.
Speaker 2: The Egyptians, the Assyrians, and the Babylonians, who knew the
Speaker 2: Sun as a bull, called the zodiac a series of
Speaker 2: furrows through which the great celestial ox dragged the plow
Speaker 2: of the sun. Wow, let's take a quick break. Because
Speaker 2: before Mythris, before Mithraism, before Zoroaster had his revelation in
Speaker 2: the Age of Ares, we just talked about this. It
Speaker 2: was the age of Taurus. They knew the Sun as
Speaker 2: a bull, and the Mythris comes along the sword and
Speaker 2: the neck of the bull. Now the Sun is a lion.
Speaker 2: I guess they depicted as a lion. They but I'm
Speaker 2: getting there. Hold on the depiction of the lion. The Egyptians,
Speaker 2: the Assyrians, the Babylonians, who knew the Sun as a bowl,
Speaker 2: called the zodiaca series of furrows through which the great
Speaker 2: celestial Ox dragged the plow of the Sun. Hence, the
Speaker 2: populace offered up sacrifice and led through the streets magnificent steers,
Speaker 2: bedecked with flowers and surrounded with priests, dancing girls of
Speaker 2: the temples, and musicians. The philosophic elect did not participate
Speaker 2: in these idolatrous ceremonials, but advocated them as most suitable
Speaker 2: for the types of mind composing the mass of the population.
Speaker 2: These few possessed a far deeper understanding, as the serpent
Speaker 2: of Scorpio upon their foreheads. The Euaeus bore witness, which
Speaker 2: if you think about like the Egyptians with the snake
Speaker 2: on their eyebrow on the forehead, that's the Euaeus, the
Speaker 2: serpent coming from the third eye thoughts cool, Okay. The
Speaker 2: Sun is often symbolized with its rays in the form
Speaker 2: of a shaggy mane. Concerning the Masonic significance of Leo,
Speaker 2: Robert Hewitt Brown, thirty second degree Mason, has written, on
Speaker 2: the twenty first of June, when the sun arrives at
Speaker 2: the solstice, the constellation Leo, being but thirty degrees in
Speaker 2: advance of the Sun, appears to be leading the way
Speaker 2: and to aid by his powerful paw in lifting the
Speaker 2: Sun up to the summit of the Zodiaco arch. This
Speaker 2: physical connection between the constellation Leo and the return of
Speaker 2: the Sun to his place and power of power and
Speaker 2: glory at the summit of the royal arch of Heaven
Speaker 2: was the principal reason why that constellation was held in
Speaker 2: such high esteem and reverence by the ancients. The astrologers
Speaker 2: distinguished Leo as the sole house of the Sun and
Speaker 2: taught that the world was created when the Sun was
Speaker 2: in that sign. The lion was adored in the east
Speaker 2: and the West by the Egyptians and the Mexicans. The
Speaker 2: Chief Druid of Britain was styled a lion stellar theology
Speaker 2: and Masonic astronomy. When the Aquarian age is thoroughly established,
Speaker 2: the sun will be in Leo, as will be noted
Speaker 2: from the explanation previously given in this chapter regarding the
Speaker 2: distinction between geocentric and heliocentric astrology. Then indeed, will the
Speaker 2: secret religions of the world include once more the raising
Speaker 2: to initiation by the grip of the lions. Paul Lazarus
Speaker 2: will come forth. So that had me thinking. The whole
Speaker 2: thing is like when the gaze of the Sphinx aligns
Speaker 2: with the constellation Leo just before down, or the star
Speaker 2: Regulus in the constellation Leo just before dawn. It, you know,
Speaker 2: it'll be a new knowledge. And at the age of Aquarius.
Speaker 2: And I'm just thinking about all this stuff.
Speaker 3: And I just said the constellation Leo leads the sun
Speaker 3: by thirty degrees in June.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what, But more specifically, they just said that
Speaker 2: at the creation of the world, the sun was in Leo.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They the ancients teach that Leo is the soul house
Speaker 2: of the Sun. And that the world is create when
Speaker 2: the sun was in Leo. So it's just very interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's so wild that that. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: I always had the hunch that like this, this message
Speaker 3: that the lady relayed to your dad is like it's
Speaker 3: so much more ancient than what's happening right now. I
Speaker 3: always had the thought like, there's this is this is
Speaker 3: a very very very old prophecy, but like that this
Speaker 3: is corroborating that.
Speaker 5: See.
Speaker 2: I never thought of it as like an ancient idea
Speaker 2: because it you know, I had never heard of it.
Speaker 2: I just thought of it as like a new like yeah,
Speaker 2: when the when the star alligans, and I just thought
Speaker 2: of it as like a new idea, like oh okay, cool.
Speaker 2: I I never thought about it as being like an
Speaker 2: ancient prophecy that could be.
Speaker 3: I had even had the thought before, like I wish
Speaker 3: there was some way that we could really like get
Speaker 3: in the nitty gritty of these like teachings and find
Speaker 3: this prophecy somewhere. I've had that thought many times, like this,
Speaker 3: this he's gotta be out there written down somewhere.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean again, my dad's friend Robert Edward Grant
Speaker 2: goes in the pyramid. I'm gonna try to find this
Speaker 2: specifics on what he said. But he finds, you know,
Speaker 2: the alpha and the omega over the sphinx, and it's like,
Speaker 2: there's this ruby that he thinks it's a ruby, this
Speaker 2: gym under its pause and Dad's like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: not a ruby, it's regulars. So maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a stretch, but maybe it is hinting
Speaker 2: to the idea of something with the star Regulus and
Speaker 2: the Sphinx and the whole alpha and the omega thing
Speaker 2: is is very interesting, you know what. Actually, my dad,
Speaker 2: never mind, I can't say that.
Speaker 3: I can't say that, hush hush, Now.
Speaker 2: I can't say that. I had to stop myself.
Speaker 5: Cheese bucket and that's all she wrote.
Speaker 2: That's all she wrote.
Speaker 3: Damn dude, that was really fascinating. That was really honestly
Speaker 3: super fascinating. Uh. It's I like how it described Mythriism
Speaker 3: is kind of like a deeper, more intimate kind of
Speaker 3: exploration of Zoroastrianism. Yeah, like it. It gets into the
Speaker 3: weeds much much more than Zoroastrianism does. I like the
Speaker 3: emphasis on astro theology and then that whole last part
Speaker 3: was nuts.
Speaker 2: It's really cool to me, Like the whole Zoroastrianism thing.
Speaker 2: I remember first learning about that and just being blown
Speaker 2: away at like eighteen years old or nineteen or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because there's a lot of parallels there too to Christianity. Obviously,
Speaker 3: it's a lot of the same stuff, but with this
Speaker 3: diving even deeper, the parallels are just infinitely more.
Speaker 2: The thing that I think is really cool though, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm obviously like really into Edgar Casey. I think episode
Speaker 2: twelve was about Edgar Casey. It might have been thirteen,
Speaker 2: and I just remember talking on there about Edgar Casey's
Speaker 2: idea of reincarnation of the Christ Spirit, because I do
Speaker 2: believe in the same iteration that the Christ Spirit is
Speaker 2: this eternal it's like neo, right, yeah, Like it's like neo.
Speaker 2: You find out and either the second or the third matrix,
Speaker 2: they're like, well, you're the seventh one. Yeah, yeah, there's
Speaker 2: been six other cycles. Yeah, you know, and it's like
Speaker 2: oh shit, you know, so like sure, yeah, there's Thomas Anderson,
Speaker 2: the person who worked at his little office job and
Speaker 2: then he realized he's this oversoul, this neo, this being
Speaker 2: the one that comes back over and over and over
Speaker 2: to liberate the entire matrix. So there's two levels of
Speaker 2: being here for this entity. For Neo, he's the human
Speaker 2: Thomas Anderson, but he's also Neo. This what.
Speaker 5: There's twelve?
Speaker 2: Oh is it? He's twelve mystic psychics, right, that's the
Speaker 2: name of it. I'm pretty sure it's mystic psyched just
Speaker 2: saw twelve and I was like, he did it again, Psychics.
Speaker 2: I told you, I like Edgar Casey.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But anyway, that's my point about the Christ thing. It's like,
Speaker 2: I like Edgar Casey interpretation, Like there's this there's this
Speaker 2: eternal spirit that is like the God force, like like
Speaker 2: literally this powerful archetypal soul that comes to earth many
Speaker 2: times at pops in it has a human experience and
Speaker 2: it's say hey, everybody, wake.
Speaker 3: Up, Yeah, wake up. Yeah, you know. It's like the Avatar.
Speaker 3: It's like Neo, It's like Link. It's like all of
Speaker 3: these like fictional characters just reincarnating when we need them,
Speaker 3: when we need them to usher us into out of
Speaker 3: an age of darkness into an age of light.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also just into new ways of understanding things.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, But the thing I was trying to say,
Speaker 2: is that Edgar Casey according to his readings. And I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be honest with you, bro, after going to the
Speaker 2: Minrostitute and having some amount of body stuff and getting
Speaker 2: like really embedded in their whole history and their body
Speaker 2: of knowledge and material, I'm starting to believe in Edgar
Speaker 2: Casey more than ever because there was a part of
Speaker 2: me this like this is really cool. I vibe with it,
Speaker 2: but you know, can't prove you know, the psychic experience
Speaker 2: channeling thing. But now I'm like, I'm all in. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he says that zoro Astra was one of them. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: like the incarnation of this christ being, like you know,
Speaker 2: and that makes sense to me. I do think that
Speaker 2: there is a very strong connection between Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and
Speaker 2: then of course because it comes from Zoroastrianism to Raism,
Speaker 2: and I think that there is not only a connection
Speaker 2: between those three, but a strong connection to other ones
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: There obviously is, yeah, just by comparing it to the
Speaker 3: other religions that we talked about, Yeah, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of connections.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean it's just powerful stuff. Zoroastrinism is mind,
Speaker 2: it's very it's very prolific in the way that it's
Speaker 2: shaped our philosophic and our religious thought. And I think
Speaker 2: like ninety percent of the world are not even aware
Speaker 2: of what it is, or the origins of it, or what.
Speaker 3: It means, and or that their practices come from it. Right, Yeah, yeah, predated.
Speaker 2: It's the first ever monotheistic religion. Yeah, like the first
Speaker 2: genuinely historically verifiable, recorded monotheistic religion religion, and and that's
Speaker 2: that's crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you asked one hundred people if they had
Speaker 3: ever heard of Zoroastrianism, you might get a few.
Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, Heaven in hell, the doctrine of heaven and hell,
Speaker 2: the resurrection after death, the final judgment, all this, you know,
Speaker 2: other stuff that's in Christianity, like a lot of it
Speaker 2: comes from there. Yeah, And people might think of that
Speaker 2: as a bad thing, but it's not. No, it's not
Speaker 2: like no, you know, we have to think about we
Speaker 2: have to think about God as like transcending or you know,
Speaker 2: just truth rather transcending culture. And then these cultures are
Speaker 2: getting together and they're like fleshing out their ideas of.
Speaker 3: This, their interpretation, their interpretations.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh yeah, that no that makes sense. No, no,
Speaker 2: this makes sense. And then along the way they're like, actually,
Speaker 2: we're gonna kill all of you because we have the
Speaker 2: right way. That's what it turned into. Yeah, you know
Speaker 2: the Roman Empire and they killed millions of millions of millions.
Speaker 3: That's Romans.
Speaker 2: That's not how it should be. That's not how philosophy
Speaker 2: should be. That's not how truth should be. That's not
Speaker 2: how mystics are. You know, if you join the Rosicrucian
Speaker 2: Order right now. I signed up and took a couple
Speaker 2: of their courses a few years ago, and I didn't
Speaker 2: get any farther than that. If you join them right
Speaker 2: now and you read through all their material, they tell
Speaker 2: you we take from the Persians, the Greeks, zoro Aster,
Speaker 2: we take from Helena Blovaski, the Knights, Templar, the Gnostics.
Speaker 2: They tell you straight up, like all this stuff that works,
Speaker 2: we keep it. We also continue to explore and to
Speaker 2: find what else works. If it is genuinely observable and
Speaker 2: verifiable and substantiated, we love it. It works. That's what
Speaker 2: a mystic should do. Otherwise, you know.
Speaker 3: Whatever, you're just blocking out a bunch of stuff that
Speaker 3: could be really useful in your pursuit of the truth. Right,
Speaker 3: you're just putting horse blinders on and just choosing to
Speaker 3: ignore that other stuff for whatever reason. It may be
Speaker 3: hell fire, right yeah, yeah, for us it was as
Speaker 3: we'll burn in hell if we do that. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: whatever your reason, don't don't put the horse blinders up,
Speaker 3: open them up, and like, look into all of it.
Speaker 3: There's truth in all of it.
Speaker 2: Now, you get that cheeseball bucket up there in that way,
Speaker 2: herd and the little girls ones, you know you're in
Speaker 2: good favor the lord.
Speaker 3: Less favor and praise Jesus, Lord, have mercy.
Speaker 2: But whoa unto them with a light cheese bucket. They're
Speaker 2: robbing the house of the Lord. My pastor said, up man,
Speaker 2: he used to say, if you don't pay ties, you're
Speaker 2: robbing God. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, God have more
Speaker 2: money than me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, like I'm broke. God is balling, dude, he
Speaker 3: got all our money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what the heck?
Speaker 3: Damn? What's he needed for someone's robbing me? Yeah? The
Speaker 3: church ain't getting robbed. The church rob dude.
Speaker 2: I was talking about this with Jenny the other day.
Speaker 2: We were talking about how like in for example, Bro,
Speaker 2: my I don't have a brother in law or sister
Speaker 2: in law because Jenny's an only child. So she she
Speaker 2: has some family in Germany that I'm like, Oh, they're
Speaker 2: my in laws, you know, like that's my brother in law,
Speaker 2: that's my sister or whatever, her cousins. And this summer,
Speaker 2: one of her cousins was telling me we were just
Speaker 2: talking about the church. He was they're not really hip
Speaker 2: to a lot of this stuff in Germany. They're not
Speaker 2: to like all his Age of Aquarius stuff. They're very Catholic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we were talking about the stuff. His eyes were
Speaker 2: blown or you know, his eyes really wide. His mind
Speaker 2: was blown. He was like, wow, this makes sense, this
Speaker 2: is I've heard of this before. And god man, he
Speaker 2: was just like, I'm so sick of paying the church
Speaker 2: when I do the taxes. And I was like, you
Speaker 2: what when you do your tax Yeah, I was like,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about. He's like, yeah, if you're
Speaker 2: a member of the Catholic Church, when you do taxes,
Speaker 2: you pay taxes to the church.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Apparently that's how it is. And in Europe, bro, like,
Speaker 2: if you're a Catholic, like it's it's like you know
Speaker 2: you register, Like, yeah, I'm Catholic. Great, you're gonna pay taxes.
Speaker 3: Hey, that's a big ass cheese bucket.
Speaker 2: As a cheese bucket.
Speaker 3: That's a big ass cheese bucket. Taxes.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's legal, Like you have to pay. If you don't,
Speaker 2: you are not a member of the Catholic church.
Speaker 3: Talk about crazy, right, that's easy. He told me that.
Speaker 3: I was like, what what do you mean.
Speaker 2: He's like, oh, yeah, I'm sick of it. I don't
Speaker 2: want to pay anymore.
Speaker 3: Dude. That's evil, isn't it. It's a big ass cheese bucket,
Speaker 3: taxes full of cheeseball.
Speaker 2: Legal taxes to the church.
Speaker 3: That's gross.
Speaker 5: Many my Catholic church would send a year's worth of
Speaker 5: envelopes that you could put your money in to go
Speaker 5: to church with, so you get, you know, average, Once
Speaker 5: a week they'd send you fifty two envelopes and you'd
Speaker 5: write on it how much money you put in the envelope,
Speaker 5: and they want like twenty percent of your total income.
Speaker 2: That's some sales strategy right there.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 3: They're basically sending you blank checks.
Speaker 5: But I remember the funny thing is I remember getting excited.
Speaker 5: My mom would give me money to put in the
Speaker 5: basket when it comes down the people. Yeah, I didn't
Speaker 5: be like, oh yeah, what I did nothing.
Speaker 2: I want to put money in the bucket.
Speaker 5: Yeah, everybody else is doing it. Must be cool.
Speaker 3: You bought to preacher a new plane.
Speaker 5: I mean the pearly gates ain't cheap, that's right.
Speaker 6: The pearl, Yeah, solid gold pearl Jasper Jazper for the
Speaker 6: pasta Yeah, dude, so past. I mean, I'm at the
Speaker 6: end of my road here. I mean, we're are the
Speaker 6: crossroads here.
Speaker 5: You know, the caves.
Speaker 2: It's time to make caves come to a dead end. Yeah,
Speaker 2: caves come to a dead end.
Speaker 5: Time to find the water and crawl out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, just following the damn trickle in the dark.
Speaker 2: That's crazy though, right. They got on their hands and
Speaker 2: knees and they're like, I heard trickling water. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: they followed the trickling water and they made it out.
Speaker 3: I could have just used their iPhone the whole time.
Speaker 2: Idiots in the eighteen hundreds, Yeah, could you imagine how
Speaker 2: gross they were too?
Speaker 3: Like the stink.
Speaker 5: Do you think people smelled worse than people smelled now
Speaker 5: or do you think it's circumstantial?
Speaker 3: Dude?
Speaker 5: No, I'm all I'm saying is that if you adopted
Speaker 5: the hygiene practices of someone in the eighteen hundreds, you
Speaker 5: would smell like someone in the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 3: Foul. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 5: But what I'm saying is humans don't smell different than
Speaker 5: they did. It's just circumstantial.
Speaker 2: But how do you know?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't know shit.
Speaker 2: Because we got like McDonald's, we got like chicken, we
Speaker 2: got like I'm here, easy food. That probably makes us
Speaker 2: smell worse.
Speaker 3: Dog, I don't know about that, bro. They did not
Speaker 3: have good hygiene.
Speaker 5: They probably smell good. No, they did not. I guarantee
Speaker 5: if you transported someone from the eighteen hundreds to now
Speaker 5: and they adopted the hygiene practices that we have now,
Speaker 5: would they smell like us?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think they can't go both ways. They would smell
Speaker 4: like us if they would just be hygienic, but they don't.
Speaker 4: They didn't have showers and soap and ships, so they
Speaker 4: were stinky as hell. Plus they didn't know the importance
Speaker 4: of hygiene.
Speaker 5: I don't want to die in this cave, Okay.
Speaker 2: Dude, I'm telling you, they'd smell way better than buy
Speaker 2: a long mile Dude, they had life soap. They was
Speaker 2: like bathing with acid, dude.
Speaker 5: And then take me back. I don't want to be here.
Speaker 5: They smelled better than U s dude tripping a Smash Bros.
Speaker 2: Tournament.
Speaker 5: Yeah, fowl Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying, but at
Speaker 5: least those Have you ever been to the first Olympics?
Speaker 3: No that they I guarantee they smelled bad. They must
Speaker 3: have spelled real bad.
Speaker 2: Like in Rome.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah they didn'tst Olympics were in Greece.
Speaker 5: They didn't close the Olympics.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of the coliseum, the gladiators.
Speaker 5: I'd have paid to see that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you would have. I'm sure they charge.
Speaker 2: I think we're uh, I think we're at a at
Speaker 2: a good point.
Speaker 3: It's time to Ryan begging.
Speaker 2: It's time to It's time to say good night.
Speaker 3: All right, good night bye God.
Speaker 1: Guys.
Speaker 3: What ut bonies?
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