WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with

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<v Speaker 1>patron mug. Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. We're back dot net rocks. That's right, nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>twenty nine. I'm Carl Franklin, Robert Campbell. April Joho is

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<v Speaker 1>here with us. We'll talk to her in just a minute.

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<v Speaker 1>But uh, you know we're coming into the holiday season, Richard.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yes, and I'm wondering, you know, are you gonna

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna do some geek outs?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? I've been right been writing my brains out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, have you thought about any toys you might want?

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<v Speaker 2>We just published the Toy Show on run As Radio,

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<v Speaker 2>which is like Christmas for cissid Bins. It's we've done

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<v Speaker 2>at like six years in a row now because sisms

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<v Speaker 2>are impossible to buy.

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<v Speaker 1>For right, Yeah, of course.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a Joey Snow and Rick Claus because having

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<v Speaker 2>claws and snow on a show about Christmas toys just

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<v Speaker 2>sort of makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>That's just going to be over the top, just sort.

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<v Speaker 2>Of worked out that way weirdly enough.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I have a Christmas present for you, my friend,

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<v Speaker 1>oh oh, that you are not going to believe. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know you and I are very hard to buy for, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>without a doubt. And so Kelly got this gift for

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<v Speaker 1>me and I was like, oh, yeah, Richard needs one

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<v Speaker 1>of these.

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<v Speaker 2>So what have you done?

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<v Speaker 1>We'll wait and see after the holidays. What happened? First?

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<v Speaker 1>Before we get going, let's roll the crazy music for

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<v Speaker 1>better no framework possible?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, man?

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<v Speaker 1>What have got? Well, as you know, I do this

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<v Speaker 1>other podcast with Patrick Hines and Duyne Laflotte called Security

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<v Speaker 1>This Week, and we we basically talk about security issues

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<v Speaker 1>but through the lens of current events, with a whole

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of dad jokes thrown in there. So we laugh

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<v Speaker 1>a lot. But you know, you have to sort of

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<v Speaker 1>spice up this content because it's very dull.

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<v Speaker 2>It can be.

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<v Speaker 1>Security can be very dry, and when.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not dull, it's terrifying, right, Like.

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<v Speaker 1>That's sort of your choices, Yeah, yeah, and terrifying it is,

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<v Speaker 1>and so you know, we have to laugh and that's why.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, we decided to open a Discord channel and

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<v Speaker 1>it has become very popular. Not only are people asking

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<v Speaker 1>questions and interacting and stuff and giving us suggestions for stories,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're also learning a lot from Attrick and Dwayne,

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<v Speaker 1>Like they're going to be doing sort of training in

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<v Speaker 1>Discord that you couldn't get anywhere else. You know, these

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<v Speaker 1>guys are just like real pros. So I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>give you the Discord Channel. This being episode nineteen twenty nine.

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<v Speaker 1>If you go to nineteen twenty nine dot pwoppwop dot me,

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<v Speaker 1>that'll bring you to the Discord channel for security this week.

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<v Speaker 1>And you should should you know, if you're interested in security,

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<v Speaker 1>is a good thing to do. It's a good community.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely cool man.

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<v Speaker 1>And it being nineteen twenty nine, we can't talk about

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<v Speaker 1>that year without touching on the Wall Street crash.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was a big one.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a big thing in nineteen twenty nine. What

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<v Speaker 1>was what was your favorite event?

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<v Speaker 2>It was also the first time as Zeppelin flew around

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<v Speaker 2>the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow yeah, wow, wow, bad timing. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I find the titled a machine That'll fly you all

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<v Speaker 2>the way around the world, and then I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not Mark crash was bad. It was a twelve percent drop. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know they call that the trigger of the

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<v Speaker 2>Great Depression. Yep, mostly because they had a tough time

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<v Speaker 2>figuring out what to do after that.

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<v Speaker 1>There really wasn't enough money in the system to support

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of drop, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, and it had a little cascading event. Yeah, good fun.

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<v Speaker 2>Nineteen twenty nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, good fun. All right, who's talking to us today?

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<v Speaker 2>Richard gradukommadov a show eighteen sixty five, the one we

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<v Speaker 2>did with our friend April back in September of twenty three,

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<v Speaker 2>so a little over a year ago. We were talking

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<v Speaker 2>about Azure and GitHub and our friend Mark wan Sall

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<v Speaker 2>had this comed He said, I always love listening to

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<v Speaker 2>April talking about DevOps, and now the talk is moving

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<v Speaker 2>away from DevOps and towards platform engineering, which might be

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<v Speaker 2>an interesting Donna Rocks Tappen's episode, Oh maybe I do

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<v Speaker 2>definitely do platform engineering on run Ass Radio. A few

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, Spotify donating a tool called Backstage. It's at

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<v Speaker 2>backstage dot io to the Cloud Native Foundation, which builds

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<v Speaker 2>developer portals. So this whole idea of being able to

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<v Speaker 2>divide cloud resources to developers sort of self service with governance.

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<v Speaker 2>While this looks promising from a corporate standards point of view,

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder if the balance of power moves too much

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<v Speaker 2>in favor of option away from developer agility. Always interesting times.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know mark giving smart Developers don't want administrator

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<v Speaker 2>passwords because then it could be their fault.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole point about the portal approach is that if

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<v Speaker 2>you do harm with what you instantiate through the portal,

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<v Speaker 2>that's on the people who organize the portal, not on you.

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<v Speaker 2>You have or should be living within constraints, so you

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<v Speaker 2>know you should push back on what you're capable of

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<v Speaker 2>doing if it's actually an impediment. But creating these sort

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<v Speaker 2>of guard rails so that you control costs, like you

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<v Speaker 2>limit the number of dumb things that happen. They're really important,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know you don't want to find out the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the month the ACCID at least been one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred thousand dollars because you'll let some stuff up forgot

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<v Speaker 2>to turn it off. That shouldn't be possible through these portals.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, save yourself some pain, use the portal

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<v Speaker 2>and push on it. What does and do the job.

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<v Speaker 2>Good advice, Richer, not that I have strong opinions about

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<v Speaker 2>these things. Yeah, so Mark, thank you so much your

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<v Speaker 2>comment and a copy of music Coby is on its

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<v Speaker 2>way to you, and if you'd like a copy of

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<v Speaker 2>music co buy. I write a comment on the website

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<v Speaker 2>at don at Rocks dot com on the facebooks. We

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<v Speaker 2>publish every show there, and you comment there and everybody

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<v Speaker 2>in the show. We'll send your copy of music go by.

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<v Speaker 1>And you can further contact us on a variety of

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<v Speaker 1>social media platforms other than Facebook. We've both been on

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<v Speaker 1>ex Twitter for a number of years. That's what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>calling it now ex Twitter. It seems like it's everybody's

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<v Speaker 1>ex now used to be Twitter. But we're also on

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<v Speaker 1>Blue Sky of course. I'm Carl Franklin b Sky's Social

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<v Speaker 1>and that's social, and you're Rich Campbell. I'm Rich Campbell

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<v Speaker 1>dot best Guide on Social and also I'm Masdon. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Carl Franklin at tech cub.

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<v Speaker 2>Dot Social, and I'm Rich Campbell at Master.

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<v Speaker 1>So there you go. So get in touch with us

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<v Speaker 1>one way or another for any reason. But if you

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<v Speaker 1>ask a question or have a comment and Richard reads it,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll send you a copy of music to code buy

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<v Speaker 1>for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>And by the way, I did put out on four

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<v Speaker 2>on the X and the Blue Skies and the Threads

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<v Speaker 2>and the Massodons that I was working on the geek

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<v Speaker 2>outs last weekend. And I guess which one I got

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<v Speaker 2>the most feedback on. I'm thinking Blue Sky is Blue Sky?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm getting more engagement there than anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>else too.

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<v Speaker 2>I got feedback on all of them, to be honest,

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm very flattered, like that was nice. People love

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<v Speaker 2>the geek out. So I got a long list of

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<v Speaker 2>things you'll when we actually published a meal here, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to mention your name if you asked a question.

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<v Speaker 1>Very cool.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, the Blue Sky response was swift and thorough excellent.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, So let's bring back to dot net rocks.

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<v Speaker 2>April Yoho.

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<v Speaker 1>So. She is a senior developer advocate and DevOps practicely

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<v Speaker 1>at GitHub, specializing in application transformation and DevOps ways of working.

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<v Speaker 1>Her focus is to take customers on a journey from

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<v Speaker 1>legacy technology to server lists and containers where code comes first,

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<v Speaker 1>while enabling them to take full advantage of DevOps practices.

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<v Speaker 1>In you spare time, April spends time outdoors hiking, skiing,

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<v Speaker 1>or scuba diving. That's where your nickname comes from, that

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<v Speaker 1>you got when you were nine, right, and you're also

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<v Speaker 1>a triathlete competing in iron Man and half iron Man triathlons.

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<v Speaker 1>So if I could sum it up, don't with her,

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<v Speaker 1>She'll kick your ass. Nice Welcome back, April.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Carl. I think that's the best TLDR intro

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<v Speaker 3>I've ever had in my entire life.

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<v Speaker 1>Very cool. Huh ForWords, that's all you need to know,

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<v Speaker 1>right down to it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's too funny. How you doing. You've been adventuring?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how you doing? What's going on?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm good. I've been traveling around the world for work.

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<v Speaker 3>Some pleasure, a little bit of pleasure here and there,

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<v Speaker 3>but mostly just traveling around the world going to customer events,

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<v Speaker 3>first party events. We just had Get up Universe, what

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<v Speaker 3>was that a month and a half ago? Get up

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<v Speaker 3>Constellation in South Africa, Get Up Constellation in India. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>it's been busy. And then we just had a night

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<v Speaker 3>was that last week in Chicago? Som hm, it's been

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<v Speaker 3>a busy bee.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I got a little story for you. So I'm working

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<v Speaker 1>with a customer and we started out with a big

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<v Speaker 1>GitHub repo and everything's working great, and then they say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna move over to Azure dev ops and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>like why. They say, well, a lot of our other

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<v Speaker 1>products are over there in the customers and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and this and that they want them us to move.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're trying to move and it was painful, like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know I could add a new file to

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<v Speaker 1>my project and that, you know, the source control just

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't pick it up what I added it to the too,

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<v Speaker 1>and I sinked and everything. No, it's just not there.

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<v Speaker 1>And when we had to configure it, like by default,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to configure it so that you can do that.

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<v Speaker 1>So now we're moving all the way back to get hub.

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<v Speaker 1>Screw that. Yeah, I don't know why you would have left.

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<v Speaker 1>I wasn't my decision.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, sometimes we have to learn by our mistakes, Carl,

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<v Speaker 3>we all grow up, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, well just to say it wasn't my decision.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm the one that pushed them towards GitHub in

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<v Speaker 1>the first place, because that's that's my home base.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, welcome cloth Work.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome back, Thank you. We love having you on GitHub.

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<v Speaker 1>It's all about the act. Oh, I have plenty of

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<v Speaker 1>reposts on GitHub. It's just through this one customer.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes you do.

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<v Speaker 1>But what's new in GitHub in twenty twenty five?

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<v Speaker 3>What is new? Well, it's been the year of AI.

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<v Speaker 3>You haven't heard. AI is everywhere, absolutely everywhere. So at

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<v Speaker 3>Universe we made quite a few announcements. Do you want

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<v Speaker 3>me to run through them?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Please?

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<v Speaker 1>Sure? Sure?

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<v Speaker 3>So I think I think actually probably the good headline

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<v Speaker 3>of AI. There's a couple things I think are good headlines.

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<v Speaker 3>One is AI is really end to end with you

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<v Speaker 3>on GitHub. Now, we're really building it into the start

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<v Speaker 3>of an issue, even in discussions, into your pull requests,

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<v Speaker 3>before your poll request, even in your IDEs, and then

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<v Speaker 3>all the way through to remediation. So we're really seeing

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<v Speaker 3>a full DevOps life cycle with AI end to end,

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<v Speaker 3>not just with copilot workspace, but copilot chat and having

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<v Speaker 3>get up copilt with you wherever you go. That's been

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<v Speaker 3>pretty cool. The big thing that people have also shouted

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<v Speaker 3>about is having the option of different models. So we've

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<v Speaker 3>done a lot with multi multi modality, multi models. However

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<v Speaker 3>we call it these days, there's a big fancy term.

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<v Speaker 2>Because your original was open AI, right, The.

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<v Speaker 3>Original was open ai and we still have that in place,

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<v Speaker 3>but we've moved away from that to different models. So

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<v Speaker 3>we announced about four or five other models, plus the

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<v Speaker 3>actual GitHub model site as well. So you can choose

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<v Speaker 3>your model, you can play with it, you can have

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<v Speaker 3>a look and go right, what works, what doesn't work,

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<v Speaker 3>how does it respond? And people really want the choice,

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<v Speaker 3>so you can go shopping for models now when you're

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<v Speaker 3>writing your code.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, I'm just surprised that they care. Does it really

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<v Speaker 2>make that much of a difference.

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<v Speaker 3>It does, And you know, it's actually funny you say that.

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<v Speaker 3>I wrote an article for the dot net blog at

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<v Speaker 3>Microsoft several months ago when get hub models got released

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<v Speaker 3>and they're like, yeah, we want to showcase the get

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<v Speaker 3>hub models features and functionality and dot net I said, okay, great,

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<v Speaker 3>it wasn't there so you could do it in c sharp,

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<v Speaker 3>Python or JavaScript, and they did release capability in c

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<v Speaker 3>sharp and yeah, it made a huge difference. And actually,

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<v Speaker 3>if you go into getub copilot now and say what

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<v Speaker 3>is the best model to use for C sharp or

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<v Speaker 3>you know, even testing or whatever, it will give you

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<v Speaker 3>three or four different options. And I've gone into the

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<v Speaker 3>GitHub models playground and started playing with the different models

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<v Speaker 3>and seeing what the outputs are like. It's a ton

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<v Speaker 3>of fun. But yeah, it will definitely differ on type

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<v Speaker 3>of language you're using. If you whether use an infrastructure's code,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, anything C Sharp related or Go Lang, Python,

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<v Speaker 3>et cetera, the models are all different. Do you want

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<v Speaker 3>to use different models for visuals? Visualization? Absolutely?

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<v Speaker 1>One of my favorite features of large language models. It's

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<v Speaker 1>is its ability to remember what we've talked about right,

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<v Speaker 1>well done the context? And I'm wondering if you're if

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<v Speaker 1>you have to switch models for different parts of your application,

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<v Speaker 1>do they share the context or does each of them

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<v Speaker 1>have their own context?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I haven't because we've just released it and

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of it's in preview. I haven't died deep

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<v Speaker 3>enough to really answer that. So what I've done with

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<v Speaker 3>the models is taken the same task and compared like

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<v Speaker 3>for like's, if I ask it to write x unit

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<v Speaker 3>tests in my C shark code, one model is going

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<v Speaker 3>to differ from another one. Whereas if I say, write

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<v Speaker 3>write some ex unit tests, or if I give another

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<v Speaker 3>model the task of make my C shark code more secure,

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<v Speaker 3>it's going to give you complete different answers. So I

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<v Speaker 3>like doing like for like comparison, same thing. When we

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<v Speaker 3>compare the usability of AI to a human. If it

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<v Speaker 3>takes me five hours to write a unit test, hypothetically,

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<v Speaker 3>how long does it take with copilot five minutes or less?

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<v Speaker 2>You guys are the ones that coin the term copilot.

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<v Speaker 2>Clearly are using it differently. Now, like why are there

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<v Speaker 2>multian I get multiple models because they're between Well, why

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<v Speaker 2>are there multiple copilots? Like you already talked about copilot workspace,

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<v Speaker 2>copilot chat.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so when So let's back this up. So there's

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<v Speaker 3>Getthub copilot, which is the original copilot, and then we

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<v Speaker 3>started increasing features and functionality in it. So with that

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<v Speaker 3>we started, well we being Getthub not me, I have

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<v Speaker 3>nothing to do with branding, started differentiating the types of

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<v Speaker 3>use cases for copilots, so copilot chat because you can

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<v Speaker 3>chat with it, you can have conversation with it in

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<v Speaker 3>your editor, in your ID. Then we started looking at

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<v Speaker 3>copilot workspace, which is an end to end driven thing.

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<v Speaker 3>I have no idea how they name these things, but

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<v Speaker 3>we've basically tacked on another differentiator and copilot in its

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<v Speaker 3>different use cases. And then Microsoft took Copilot and put

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<v Speaker 3>it on everything and rebranded three sixty five recently to

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<v Speaker 3>copilot again.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, sometimes it's three sixty five copilots. Sometimes this copilot

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<v Speaker 2>for three sixty five.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, it's let's take this back to the naming

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<v Speaker 3>convention at Microsoft and the marketing folks like you had

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<v Speaker 3>Team Foundation Server you had as your DevOps. Like the

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<v Speaker 3>naming conventions and the branding. I not to comment on.

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<v Speaker 3>It is tough. It's hard. There's a lot of products.

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<v Speaker 1>I get it. I imagine they like hire a new

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<v Speaker 1>executive when they come in the first thing and say, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to change the names of these things. Who's

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<v Speaker 1>with me?

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<v Speaker 3>He's like, let's change the icons and the names. Let's

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<v Speaker 3>confuse everyone because I like the pictures. I like knowing

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<v Speaker 3>what does the picture look like, what's the icon that

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<v Speaker 3>I'm looking for that day? And then when they change it,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm lost.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, I'm very lost. You can change the nail

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<v Speaker 2>you want, but if you change the icon, we're doomed.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Name. We're not going to worry about. It's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So I mean that's three different quote unquote co pilots, Right,

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<v Speaker 2>but I guess they just arrive at different places for you.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they have different features and functionality. So the copilot

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<v Speaker 3>chat is the chat in your ID. So whether you're

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<v Speaker 3>in VS code or this is your rubber duck, this

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<v Speaker 3>is your rubber duck one thousand percent, and they're all

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<v Speaker 3>your rubber ducks actually, but this is chat, This is conversational,

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<v Speaker 3>giving it the context and then you know, this is

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<v Speaker 3>what I probably used ninety nine point nine percent of

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<v Speaker 3>my time doing.

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<v Speaker 2>Is is chat.

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<v Speaker 3>So I opened up my ID, I asked them about

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<v Speaker 3>my code base, how to fix my code, Let's fix

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<v Speaker 3>the legacy code. Convert code from c sharp to JavaScript.

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<v Speaker 3>If you're feeling feisty that day, you know, you could

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<v Speaker 3>do whatever you want.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would have gotten to Ruby on rails, but whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Okay, you know, to each their own.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you.

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<v Speaker 2>Would have you done with my friend Richard Campbell. I

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00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.440
<v Speaker 2>just remember that guy sitting in the corner. Whenever we

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<v Speaker 2>were battling on a problem like this, you know, we rails.

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<v Speaker 2>It would have been fine. It's like, yeah, we would

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<v Speaker 2>have gone away for six months and then what that was?

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<v Speaker 2>Ruby Buddha, wasn't it problem?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? He was like, ah, I have the answer Ruby

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<v Speaker 1>on rails every problem, every problem is solved.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, It's kind of like how Kupernetti solves everything, the

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<v Speaker 3>Ruby on rails for code and Kupernettes for everything else.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know the best way to know it's not

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<v Speaker 2>a solve problem is just to look at how many

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<v Speaker 2>products have the word Kubernetes in them. A solve problem,

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00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:04.160
<v Speaker 2>there'd be one, there's not. There's dozens, so okay.

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<v Speaker 3>More than that now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But I feel the same way about the copilots,

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<v Speaker 2>like we're still feeling around for the perfect interface. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I appreciate your view on chat. That's just this idea

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<v Speaker 2>of this is where I come in to a project

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't touched in three months, and I start with

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<v Speaker 2>chat saying, okay, what the hell was I thinking? Just

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<v Speaker 2>that it can start presenting some information about this code base.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's there to chats, there to conversation lies. I

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<v Speaker 3>think with the new models as too, it's skewed the

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<v Speaker 3>lines quite a bit. So copilot chat was very much

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<v Speaker 3>iteration and context, and then with the new models you

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<v Speaker 3>can give it full sentences and paragraphs and you can

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<v Speaker 3>go from you know, the slash explain command, the slash test, command,

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<v Speaker 3>slash help to how do I execute this class? And

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<v Speaker 3>oh yeah, and explain it to me in Dutch and

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<v Speaker 3>it will. It's pretty fantastic I have. That's been my

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<v Speaker 3>new party trick is every country I've visited I've used,

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<v Speaker 3>I've spoken to co pilot in whatever native language I'm mean.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's been exciting because you never know how it's

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<v Speaker 3>going to respond, and it's actually been it's been really good.

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<v Speaker 3>It's been spot on.

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<v Speaker 1>You speak Dutch a.

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<v Speaker 3>Little bit, but I'm better in German. And please, let's

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<v Speaker 3>not test. That's the end of my day to day.

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<v Speaker 3>My brain cells stopped working.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's not nice.

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<v Speaker 3>That's that's not nice. I think Richard's seen me or

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<v Speaker 3>heard me speak Dutch before in our life potentially.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what we've been out and about what's Dutch for? Beer?

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<v Speaker 3>Beera via Germans, beer, Dutches, beak. The hard languages to

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<v Speaker 3>learn at the same time because they sound similar but

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00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:41.200
<v Speaker 3>are pronounce.

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<v Speaker 1>It's usually where you start though, right, because beer, beer,

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00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:53.039
<v Speaker 1>donka whiskey. Yeah, all right, now that I've completely derailed

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00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.799
<v Speaker 1>the conversation, let's get back to give up nice.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it's co pilot chat, really for studio code or

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00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:02.079
<v Speaker 2>studio or does that matter?

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00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.480
<v Speaker 3>So all the new features are coming out Visual Studio Code.

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<v Speaker 3>Why it is the flagship product at Microsoft and the

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<v Speaker 3>vs CO team is hot on this, and it's also

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<v Speaker 3>the most widely used ID. Now for all the dot

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<v Speaker 3>net community, They're going to say, well, what about us

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00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.960
<v Speaker 3>in Visual Studio there is development in there.

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00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm gonna grab onto that hole. Did you just

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00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:28.920
<v Speaker 2>call Visual Studio Code the code editor and ID?

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00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:30.039
<v Speaker 1>Is that what she said?

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00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what she said, probably maybe yeah.

401
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:38.400
<v Speaker 1>And also the flagship ID. So I thought flagship didn't

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00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:43.200
<v Speaker 1>mean most popular but original or large, largest or whatever.

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00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:44.839
<v Speaker 3>Can we totally erase all that?

404
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:46.799
<v Speaker 1>And started, No, no, no, that's all right. You know,

405
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:49.799
<v Speaker 1>you know what we could define flagship is the biggest

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00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:53.440
<v Speaker 1>on disc. You know that it is Visual Studio.

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00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:57.279
<v Speaker 3>It's it's definitely our leader in ID technologies out in

408
00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.440
<v Speaker 3>the world, and the vs COD team is hot on it.

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<v Speaker 3>They're very good at developing the extension. So the Visual

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00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:06.079
<v Speaker 3>Studio team develops a lot of the extensions for Visual

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<v Speaker 3>Studio and then for Intelligay and all of those products.

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<v Speaker 3>Those guys, those folks are responsible for the engineering behind

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<v Speaker 3>that so we give them access to the APIs to

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<v Speaker 3>do what they need to do, but it's on them

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00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:20.079
<v Speaker 3>to develop. But yeah, vscode is one of the most

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<v Speaker 3>popular IDs, and it's open source, so there's lots of

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00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:24.720
<v Speaker 3>great things to say about it. But yes, you get

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<v Speaker 3>every dot net developer that's like, well, what about visual Studio,

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<v Speaker 3>and I'm like, it's there. I'll be honest, I haven't

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<v Speaker 3>done the demo in visual Studio in a while. It's

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<v Speaker 3>been a long time. It's a heavyweight application on my machine,

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00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.039
<v Speaker 3>and most of the time I'm using a get Hub

423
00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:42.559
<v Speaker 3>code space, which is vs code in the cloud, in

424
00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:43.400
<v Speaker 3>the secure environment.

425
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:48.079
<v Speaker 2>So selfishly, yeah, yeah, no, I don't know how many

426
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.559
<v Speaker 2>new users coming to visual Studio, but I know there's

427
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:52.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot of existing users in the visual Studio space.

428
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.119
<v Speaker 2>And it's this is a recognition that it's as much

429
00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:59.240
<v Speaker 2>a project management tool as it is also a coding environment,

430
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:04.160
<v Speaker 2>and and so you know, you don't move away from

431
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.519
<v Speaker 2>it easily, certainly, but I do seem to live in

432
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:12.000
<v Speaker 2>both certain projects I function in studio and other projects

433
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:13.000
<v Speaker 2>I function in code.

434
00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:16.519
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely. I think anyone that's working in visual Studio is

435
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:20.599
<v Speaker 3>crossing oader vs Code a lot, but it's you know,

436
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:24.640
<v Speaker 3>it's it's VS code is an enabler for anyone that

437
00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:29.279
<v Speaker 3>is still learning to code. You have to think of

438
00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:31.319
<v Speaker 3>it as you know, you have university students, they're all

439
00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:34.519
<v Speaker 3>most of the university kids are learning Python. The kids

440
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.960
<v Speaker 3>they're adults, but most kids in school, eight nine, ten

441
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:39.359
<v Speaker 3>year olds are learning Python. People learning Python for research

442
00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:41.839
<v Speaker 3>and data in school. So VS code is a great

443
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:44.559
<v Speaker 3>enabler as an ID. And I still have customers that

444
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:47.359
<v Speaker 3>don't use anything other than Notepad plus plus and I

445
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:48.920
<v Speaker 3>only want to start that argument.

446
00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:54.559
<v Speaker 2>But too many features in Visual Studio code apparently, well.

447
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.720
<v Speaker 3>It's not enterprise level apparently, is what they've said.

448
00:21:57.559 --> 00:21:59.000
<v Speaker 2>And no Pad plus plus is.

449
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.079
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that was a great That was a great argument

450
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.759
<v Speaker 3>we had with their security team. When you know, you

451
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:06.960
<v Speaker 3>want to talk about developer productivity, don't let them use

452
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.200
<v Speaker 3>NOE pad plus plus. They just didn't want to take

453
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.279
<v Speaker 3>the time to procure and go through that process of

454
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:16.079
<v Speaker 3>vetting the product. And a free product, yes, and if

455
00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:17.200
<v Speaker 3>it yeah, that's yes.

456
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I don't think money was the issue there. No,

457
00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:22.000
<v Speaker 1>it was not money.

458
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:27.079
<v Speaker 2>The learning curve, yes, such as that actually is. But

459
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:29.119
<v Speaker 2>in reality, of course, is that chat shows up in

460
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:32.559
<v Speaker 2>either place. There's plugins for both. Like wherever you work,

461
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:34.400
<v Speaker 2>these tools are going to come to you yes and

462
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.960
<v Speaker 2>again conversations about code, which is really interesting because half

463
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.559
<v Speaker 2>the time we're still formulating what the heck we're thinking

464
00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:43.599
<v Speaker 2>about our code, and just to rubber duck, it helps.

465
00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:46.240
<v Speaker 3>It is and the single paint of glass experience that

466
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:49.119
<v Speaker 3>you get in Visual Studio code is hands down my

467
00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:53.119
<v Speaker 3>favorite experience. And when I say single paint of glass experience,

468
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:56.200
<v Speaker 3>when you start using the other GitHub extensions like poor

469
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.720
<v Speaker 3>requests and actions, you can see all of your automation.

470
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:02.319
<v Speaker 3>With a poor request, you can use the code review

471
00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:05.720
<v Speaker 3>feature that we've just released at Universe, so it's part

472
00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:10.920
<v Speaker 3>of copilot. Before you even stage your changes in your ID,

473
00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:15.880
<v Speaker 3>you can use code review with copilot. So is that

474
00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:18.519
<v Speaker 3>is one hundred percent of rubberduct scenario, or your junior

475
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:20.799
<v Speaker 3>developer want to understand how to write better code, or

476
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:24.319
<v Speaker 3>you're like me, I live and work somewhere separate from

477
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:26.319
<v Speaker 3>the rest of my team, so I'm working my morning

478
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.079
<v Speaker 3>time nine am ten am. I can check my own

479
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.720
<v Speaker 3>poor request with co Pilot, and then you can also

480
00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:34.200
<v Speaker 3>check it on stage changes, and then you can do

481
00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:36.960
<v Speaker 3>a code review once you've submitted your poor request. So

482
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.039
<v Speaker 3>there's kind of three different places. Well, i'd say too,

483
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:43.400
<v Speaker 3>before the poor request and then after the poor request,

484
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:46.240
<v Speaker 3>and that helps improve code quality massively.

485
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:46.640
<v Speaker 1>Great.

486
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:48.839
<v Speaker 2>Now, I mean it's still traditional code reviews too, but

487
00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:52.039
<v Speaker 2>this sounds like the code review I do before sitting

488
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:55.160
<v Speaker 2>with a senior to go through a review, just get

489
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:56.160
<v Speaker 2>yourself into shape.

490
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:57.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I think it's also a great way to

491
00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:01.359
<v Speaker 3>just check yourself because so often and we're rushed, we

492
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.839
<v Speaker 3>are frustrated, or it's again it's a context switch. You

493
00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:06.759
<v Speaker 3>get pulled out of your ID into a meeting, or

494
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:09.200
<v Speaker 3>somebody taps on your shoulder, or the dog needs to

495
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:11.079
<v Speaker 3>go out, or you have screaming kids at home, or

496
00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.839
<v Speaker 3>whatever the scenario is. You get stopped from whatever it

497
00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:17.359
<v Speaker 3>is you're doing. You lose your flow, and then you know,

498
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.359
<v Speaker 3>you scape your code and honestly code that you're talking about.

499
00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:22.559
<v Speaker 3>Any kind of repoll you pulled up three months ago,

500
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:24.240
<v Speaker 3>Why did I write something the way I did three

501
00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:27.559
<v Speaker 3>months ago? Yeah, no idea, no clue, not sure what

502
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:29.200
<v Speaker 3>my brain cells were thinking at that time. So the

503
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:33.319
<v Speaker 3>ability to review what I did before I submitted is great.

504
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:35.440
<v Speaker 3>Also helps me from making just stupid, silly mistakes. The

505
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:39.400
<v Speaker 3>humans are the problems, right, Yeah, we like to put

506
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:41.640
<v Speaker 3>passwords in places that shouldn't be there, and we like

507
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:44.440
<v Speaker 3>to push buttons and misspell things and do.

508
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.079
<v Speaker 2>Silly things, and so the review might catch a few

509
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:47.839
<v Speaker 2>more of those.

510
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:49.759
<v Speaker 3>It has caught all of mine today.

511
00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, the name co pilot really applies to that, because

512
00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:00.359
<v Speaker 1>that is like having someone looking over your shoulder and yeah,

513
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:02.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, before you commit this, you might want to

514
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:05.880
<v Speaker 1>look at these little issues here. Yeah. I like that.

515
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Now, that's separate from the tool that helps write the

516
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:11.960
<v Speaker 2>pr right, that actually summarizes the poll requests and stuff like.

517
00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:12.359
<v Speaker 1>That's.

518
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:15.720
<v Speaker 3>Yes, it's still part of the copilot licensing, but it's

519
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:20.880
<v Speaker 3>a separate, different step in in the development process.

520
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Right, But I just appreciate it writes far better polar

521
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.200
<v Speaker 2>request statements than I do.

522
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:29.079
<v Speaker 3>Oh absolutely well. It actually lists out the files for you. Yeah,

523
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.000
<v Speaker 3>it lists out the files, references them, and summarizes them.

524
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:34.920
<v Speaker 3>And you know, often I'll put up a pull request

525
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.079
<v Speaker 3>out of sheer frustration, be like, please, God work, you know,

526
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.759
<v Speaker 3>it's it's pretty ugly. My commits are really ugly sometimes.

527
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:45.720
<v Speaker 3>But you're rush, You're frustrated. It's your like eightieth attempt

528
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:47.400
<v Speaker 3>at getting this thing to work.

529
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:51.240
<v Speaker 1>I got to admit I've put in commits with the

530
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:54.640
<v Speaker 1>comment was fixed a few things that didn't work before.

531
00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh great, and then I finally find in this

532
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:02.880
<v Speaker 2>four of those in a row, follows by half af

533
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:09.599
<v Speaker 2>ass right like yes, yes, yeah, help help by doom right,

534
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:12.920
<v Speaker 2>tried this again. I think the big one is you're

535
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:15.799
<v Speaker 2>often you're flailing around with a problem and you're just hack.

536
00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:18.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, your your fence posting, your hacking it cod

537
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:20.640
<v Speaker 2>in different places. And one of the things I like

538
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:22.880
<v Speaker 2>about that summarizer is it shows me all those like

539
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.039
<v Speaker 2>why is there a file change in that file? Oh right, yeah,

540
00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:29.759
<v Speaker 2>when I was flailing at that thing, maybe that change shouldn't.

541
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:33.200
<v Speaker 3>Stay revert revert revert. And you know, it's also things

542
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:38.519
<v Speaker 3>like we talked about DevOps right, and you know what's

543
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:40.799
<v Speaker 3>the phrase, gosh, I wish my brain sales would work tonight.

544
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:46.960
<v Speaker 3>Short lived feature branches right, commit early and often. Yeah,

545
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:48.880
<v Speaker 3>and that's a good way to make sure you're committing

546
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.440
<v Speaker 3>the right size pull request for your features.

547
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, don't stay over in that branch too long. Short

548
00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:57.839
<v Speaker 2>lived branch like, don't also, just.

549
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:03.079
<v Speaker 1>Right, I'm working with another developer on this project, and

550
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:05.720
<v Speaker 1>he's working in a totally different space than I'm working

551
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:09.720
<v Speaker 1>on and you know, we don't branch. We just you know,

552
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.119
<v Speaker 1>haven't needed to, haven't needed to, and if you don't

553
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:13.000
<v Speaker 1>need to, don't.

554
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:15.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I disagree with you, Carl, because what if you

555
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.480
<v Speaker 3>screw something up, You're screwing up your your single source

556
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:18.839
<v Speaker 3>of truth.

557
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.839
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, well I just roll back for that. You are,

558
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:23.519
<v Speaker 1>if I screw something up.

559
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:25.319
<v Speaker 3>Then it won't build your buddy.

560
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:27.799
<v Speaker 1>But right, but I'm working on my code, he's working

561
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:31.599
<v Speaker 1>on his, and we don't overlap. So if I screw

562
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:33.960
<v Speaker 1>up my code and if I break the build, I'm

563
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:34.440
<v Speaker 1>a jerk.

564
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:36.400
<v Speaker 3>But but what if you bring in a third person?

565
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the real problem is when you roll back, and

566
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:42.319
<v Speaker 2>so you got to push back his work. Yeah, yes,

567
00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:44.119
<v Speaker 2>but then he can haven't had to do that.

568
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:48.319
<v Speaker 1>But you know what, though, it's a very probably a rare,

569
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:51.240
<v Speaker 1>more rare scenario the way I'm working with this particular

570
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:54.240
<v Speaker 1>you're hit the magic number two. Yeah. Any more than

571
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:58.039
<v Speaker 1>that we would have to be branching and merging probably, definitely.

572
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:00.480
<v Speaker 2>It's all a question of chance of collision.

573
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.519
<v Speaker 1>We also you know, text each other, right, So if

574
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:06.039
<v Speaker 1>he's going to make a change, he says, hey, I'm

575
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:08.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to make a change. Just have him out

576
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:12.000
<v Speaker 1>for an hour. Okay, no problem. So so we avoid

577
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:13.640
<v Speaker 1>we avoid merged conflicts like.

578
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:14.839
<v Speaker 2>The plague nice.

579
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:19.119
<v Speaker 3>You know, there's a great gitub feature for that, merge

580
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:23.839
<v Speaker 3>Cues's say, I'm sure how to avoid a merge bomb?

581
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:24.599
<v Speaker 3>Use a mergeque.

582
00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, an SMS is working just fine for

583
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:30.799
<v Speaker 1>the two of us. Just one kind of mergequeue.

584
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:36.079
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, have you ever been on a merge train?

585
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I took one to New Jersey once from and.

586
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.720
<v Speaker 3>So this is this is before my GitHub days. And

587
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:47.599
<v Speaker 3>actually in getthub you can use the mergeque feature and

588
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:50.039
<v Speaker 3>a lot of our customers absolutely love it because they're like,

589
00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:52.079
<v Speaker 3>you get merge bombs all the time, how do we

590
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:53.720
<v Speaker 3>prevent it? Yeah, look at merge cues. I'm like, oh,

591
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:56.039
<v Speaker 3>this is great. I was actually working in Azure dev

592
00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:59.799
<v Speaker 3>ops on a customer project and we were on a

593
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:03.400
<v Speaker 3>mission as a team to close as many prs as possible,

594
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:06.279
<v Speaker 3>and we had some merge bomb issues. So we put

595
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:09.680
<v Speaker 3>an a merged train in Azure DevOps and it was

596
00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:15.039
<v Speaker 3>probably the most fun slash hysterical slash frustrating moment of

597
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:19.519
<v Speaker 3>poll requests going through at once. But yeah, merge bombs

598
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:19.960
<v Speaker 3>are no fun.

599
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.440
<v Speaker 1>So tell me about merged cues.

600
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.720
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think I just summed to that you can

601
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:31.200
<v Speaker 3>set it up so that being said, with policy and so.

602
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Basically multiple merges can happen in the right order.

603
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:38.200
<v Speaker 3>Correct, you can or you can prioritize them. Pretty fancy stuff, isn't.

604
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.279
<v Speaker 2>There also ability to sort of detect this might be

605
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:42.400
<v Speaker 2>a collision here, so let's pull it off onto a

606
00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:46.440
<v Speaker 2>branch like So just a way to like branching policies.

607
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, that's another feature for carl.

608
00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.680
<v Speaker 1>You know, when I get into my next project that

609
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:56.400
<v Speaker 1>has more than two developers, I would be definitely using

610
00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:56.920
<v Speaker 1>this stuff.

611
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.519
<v Speaker 3>Well you know, it's so I'm gonna something that might

612
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:02.759
<v Speaker 3>rock the boat with people that are out there listening.

613
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:04.400
<v Speaker 3>And I'm going to say this to you, Carla's my

614
00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:09.160
<v Speaker 3>friendly sage advice for my many years doing demos. When

615
00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:13.279
<v Speaker 3>when we as business as tech professionals are doing a demo,

616
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:17.400
<v Speaker 3>we should always use best practice. Here's why, because someone

617
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 3>in the audience will do exactly as we did and

618
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:22.480
<v Speaker 3>it'll be simple, and that's why we like teaper demo simple,

619
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.000
<v Speaker 3>and they will pick up that bad habit. And so

620
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:28.039
<v Speaker 3>often I've been with someone in the industry it's like, oh,

621
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:29.759
<v Speaker 3>this is just a demo, it doesn't matter. Like well,

622
00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:34.000
<v Speaker 3>people are learning from us, it does matter. And I

623
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:37.240
<v Speaker 3>was working on a very simple it was literally a

624
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:40.640
<v Speaker 3>vanilla website. It was for Microsoft, and someone had put

625
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:44.079
<v Speaker 3>a YAMO file at the They exposed the yamo file

626
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.279
<v Speaker 3>externally and they're like, yeah, can you not put this

627
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:49.839
<v Speaker 3>in your blog? And I'm like, so I didn't. I

628
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:53.240
<v Speaker 3>had to like kindly call out best practices about calling

629
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:56.559
<v Speaker 3>out that team or that person. But it's those things

630
00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:59.039
<v Speaker 3>that are super critical when we're doing demos. Always use

631
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:01.880
<v Speaker 3>best practices because someone to greed up on that, or

632
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:04.759
<v Speaker 3>someone will go, oh, wow, what's emerge cue or wow,

633
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:06.839
<v Speaker 3>what kind of policies can be put in place? Because

634
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.279
<v Speaker 3>a two person projects quickly becomes a three person ten

635
00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:14.400
<v Speaker 3>person and using the and then you know even better,

636
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:16.559
<v Speaker 3>template all your reposts so you don't have to think

637
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:18.880
<v Speaker 3>about this. You can figure it, create a template so

638
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.960
<v Speaker 3>every repository has all the best practices built in, and

639
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:24.519
<v Speaker 3>then you can do better. And then you're showing people

640
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:26.440
<v Speaker 3>to do better and you're making a difference.

641
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:26.599
<v Speaker 2>In this world.

642
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:29.559
<v Speaker 3>I totally agree, one pull request at a time.

643
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes, where should break? Yeah, let's take a break. We'll

644
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:35.240
<v Speaker 1>be right back after these very important messages. And as

645
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:37.519
<v Speaker 1>a reminder, if you don't want to hear these messages,

646
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.559
<v Speaker 1>you can get an ad free feed by becoming a

647
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:43.599
<v Speaker 1>patron and Patreon dot dot and Rocks dot com. It's

648
00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:49.839
<v Speaker 1>only five bucks a month. We'll be right back, and

649
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:52.960
<v Speaker 1>we're back. It's dotting at Rocks. I'm Carl Franklin, Averagar

650
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:56.160
<v Speaker 1>Cambell and that's April Yoho, and we're talking GitHub and

651
00:31:57.079 --> 00:31:59.480
<v Speaker 1>went down a little rabbit hole about best practices and

652
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:01.400
<v Speaker 1>shame on you if you're not using him.

653
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:04.039
<v Speaker 2>Should we talk about GitHub Spark because that was another

654
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:07.000
<v Speaker 2>one of the announcements out of Universe this year. Right,

655
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:08.079
<v Speaker 2>this is cool.

656
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.799
<v Speaker 3>You should talk about Spark. Spark is awesome. I did

657
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:16.559
<v Speaker 3>a session yesterday for getub Winterfest and I was showing

658
00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:18.200
<v Speaker 3>off the new stuff we announced at Universe, and I

659
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:20.880
<v Speaker 3>was like, oh, I'll build something with Spark. So Spark

660
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.720
<v Speaker 3>is very simply when you go to it now, it's

661
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:30.519
<v Speaker 3>in previews, you explain what you want to do, and again,

662
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.200
<v Speaker 3>giving the AI as much context as possible is ideal.

663
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:37.920
<v Speaker 3>So I actually built two apps without writing one bit

664
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.279
<v Speaker 3>of code. So the first app, I wanted to build

665
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:44.200
<v Speaker 3>a pac Man game, and I told it what colors

666
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:45.960
<v Speaker 3>I want to use, how many levels I wanted to have,

667
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:48.640
<v Speaker 3>and then it spat out something that kind of almost

668
00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:51.319
<v Speaker 3>vaguely looked like a pac Man game. I could iterate it,

669
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:53.160
<v Speaker 3>and then it spat out a different version and it

670
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.519
<v Speaker 3>was much better. I built another app that just gave

671
00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:59.799
<v Speaker 3>me a dashboard of my metrics on GitHub, so actions usage,

672
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:02.680
<v Speaker 3>copilot usage, and it was really simple. But I just

673
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.400
<v Speaker 3>told it what I wanted in a paragraph with some detail,

674
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:07.079
<v Speaker 3>and it's spat it out in a couple of minutes.

675
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:09.799
<v Speaker 3>So it's given people that are non developers the ability

676
00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:10.720
<v Speaker 3>to write applications.

677
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:13.119
<v Speaker 2>Is HUE mean, none of the hood. It's writing code, right,

678
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.279
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, do you have access to that code

679
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:17.240
<v Speaker 2>if you want to learn you know.

680
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:19.359
<v Speaker 3>Funnily enough, I haven't played that far into it yet,

681
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:21.359
<v Speaker 3>but you could. It's it's pretty much on the surface

682
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:24.000
<v Speaker 3>at the moment. So the aim is you're not a

683
00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:26.440
<v Speaker 3>developer or you're not very technical, you could be a teacher,

684
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:30.319
<v Speaker 3>or you could be in business somewhere and you need

685
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:32.720
<v Speaker 3>to do a thing and you want a dashboard. Spark

686
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:35.240
<v Speaker 3>will build it for you. Look get into repositories. It

687
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:39.079
<v Speaker 3>is really meant to be I'm not a coding type

688
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:42.880
<v Speaker 3>programmer and i need to do a thing, and it's

689
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:44.039
<v Speaker 3>pretty cool like that. That's good.

690
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:46.240
<v Speaker 2>So it's a no code solution exactly.

691
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:50.039
<v Speaker 3>It goes beyond power apps, beyond low code. It is

692
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:51.920
<v Speaker 3>no code. I haven't actually looked to see if you

693
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:54.000
<v Speaker 3>can see the source code. I think you can. I

694
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:57.160
<v Speaker 3>think you can modify it. I think. However, because I'm

695
00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:59.319
<v Speaker 3>on preview access, I don't want to. I don't know

696
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.279
<v Speaker 3>it right the early days, I'm literally just playing with

697
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:04.519
<v Speaker 3>it and just learning how to give it the context

698
00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:06.279
<v Speaker 3>and give it that example of what I want, and

699
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:08.559
<v Speaker 3>then I go to iterate it and yeah, it's just

700
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:10.679
<v Speaker 3>fun to spit out games and build stuff without writing

701
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:12.119
<v Speaker 3>any code, just to see what would happen.

702
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, writing better prompts. And somehow it's sort of evolved

703
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:18.760
<v Speaker 2>with gethub models as well. I don't know that we've

704
00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:20.360
<v Speaker 2>talked about gethub models at all.

705
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:22.840
<v Speaker 3>It is a little bit tied into gehub Models. We

706
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.920
<v Speaker 3>haven't gone too far into that publicly in terms of

707
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:30.280
<v Speaker 3>what we're doing that get hub Models, let's call it

708
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.119
<v Speaker 3>a different aspect at the moment. So it is using

709
00:34:33.559 --> 00:34:35.440
<v Speaker 3>some model selection on the back end, so you do

710
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:38.559
<v Speaker 3>get to choose your different models, but it's still really

711
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:42.400
<v Speaker 3>really limited early doors. Whereas gethub Models gives you and

712
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.119
<v Speaker 3>I want to say, thirty models to play with and

713
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:49.159
<v Speaker 3>you can compare them. And that's a very very different

714
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.360
<v Speaker 3>scenario because you can ask it programming questions. You can

715
00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:56.440
<v Speaker 3>ask it for almost any technical question, or you can

716
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:58.559
<v Speaker 3>give it some code and it will process it and

717
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:00.800
<v Speaker 3>you compare two different models next to each other. So,

718
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.079
<v Speaker 3>like I was talking about the dot net reference earlier,

719
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:07.400
<v Speaker 3>it didn't support dot net initially. It does now, and

720
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:09.880
<v Speaker 3>that is definitely a lot more of a technical solution

721
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.480
<v Speaker 3>because you can hook into the API and get access

722
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:15.199
<v Speaker 3>and have secure area to play with it, whereas Spark

723
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:17.920
<v Speaker 3>is very much like you're using plain English or plain

724
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.199
<v Speaker 3>language to tell the model what you want and it

725
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:20.960
<v Speaker 3>will build it for you.

726
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:25.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay to me. So get up Models female almost feels

727
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:27.280
<v Speaker 2>like AI studio, and that sends that this is a

728
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:32.519
<v Speaker 2>place to build generative apps. Spark leans on Models for

729
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:35.480
<v Speaker 2>some of that language part, but it's generating different code there.

730
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Models is interesting under its own. I think it's more

731
00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:40.280
<v Speaker 2>mature than Spark. Spark is kind of brand new.

732
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:42.880
<v Speaker 3>Spark is absolutely brand new. Models has been out for

733
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:45.800
<v Speaker 3>several months, and it's more language based, so you can

734
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:48.039
<v Speaker 3>customize it to the language you work with. Where's Spark is?

735
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.039
<v Speaker 3>You know the two things.

736
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:51.960
<v Speaker 2>I'd pretty much under that.

737
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:53.760
<v Speaker 3>It's all under the hood. You know, I could probably

738
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:55.400
<v Speaker 3>pull up what I built yesterday and have a look

739
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.159
<v Speaker 3>at I haven't. I just wanted to show I've used

740
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:01.400
<v Speaker 3>plain English and built a thing. I didn't get into

741
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:02.880
<v Speaker 3>the details yet, and I haven't, to be honest, I

742
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:04.920
<v Speaker 3>haven't really had a chance to play with Spark enough.

743
00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:06.400
<v Speaker 2>It's only been a month.

744
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:09.079
<v Speaker 3>It's only been a month, and you know, so only

745
00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:10.480
<v Speaker 3>so many hours in the day, and so we need

746
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:11.360
<v Speaker 3>choice to play.

747
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:13.079
<v Speaker 2>With well, and it's one thing to make a pack

748
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:14.960
<v Speaker 2>band game. How does it do with forms over data?

749
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Right?

750
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:18.440
<v Speaker 2>Like just whipping out a quick It pulled.

751
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:19.719
<v Speaker 3>Some of the data for my repo out and gave

752
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.880
<v Speaker 3>me a little dashboard and I say a little dashboard.

753
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:24.880
<v Speaker 3>It was It was nice. It gave me some basic

754
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:27.880
<v Speaker 3>metrics and it was pretty cool, but I want to

755
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:29.800
<v Speaker 3>actually play with it and get more of a deep

756
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:31.760
<v Speaker 3>dive into it. I just need I think that's what

757
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:33.679
<v Speaker 3>Christmas is going to be for for me. I play

758
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:34.440
<v Speaker 3>your spark a lot.

759
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.679
<v Speaker 2>More GitHub sweaters and gethub models.

760
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:42.920
<v Speaker 1>You Yes, that's my sweater is awesome. Yeah. If you

761
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:43.880
<v Speaker 1>don't know what, thank you.

762
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:46.480
<v Speaker 3>It's the latest from you know, you know.

763
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:50.039
<v Speaker 1>We're talking about. Go see April's bio on the dot

764
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:52.039
<v Speaker 1>net rocks website and there's a picture we're in the

765
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:53.039
<v Speaker 1>GitHub sweater.

766
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Christmas sweater. All right, we have AI just nod out

767
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:00.880
<v Speaker 2>of this conversation. Are there other aspects that have been

768
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:03.480
<v Speaker 2>evolving at getthub? I mean, once upon a time it

769
00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:06.400
<v Speaker 2>was about source control? Hotel still does that.

770
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:10.679
<v Speaker 3>Actually, there's there's two things that I'm excited about. I

771
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.400
<v Speaker 3>think the biggest thing, and I would say it's probably

772
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.960
<v Speaker 3>bigger than AI in a lot of ways, is we've

773
00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:21.320
<v Speaker 3>just released data residency for the EU. That that's a

774
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:23.559
<v Speaker 3>huge one. We have more regions that are going to

775
00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:25.960
<v Speaker 3>be coming down the pipeline at some point, but the

776
00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:29.320
<v Speaker 3>EU has been the most highly requested region to get

777
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:32.920
<v Speaker 3>data residency one EU law. Second, here in the UK

778
00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:34.880
<v Speaker 3>we have Brexit issues, so I like to call them.

779
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.079
<v Speaker 3>So data residency is a hot topic for US, which

780
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:42.719
<v Speaker 3>has prevented a lot of people from consuming gethub just

781
00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:46.760
<v Speaker 3>because we're what EU contracts are really specific around data residency,

782
00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:50.280
<v Speaker 3>so it's it's very much a data protected environment and

783
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:57.480
<v Speaker 3>it brings in the authentication and EMU process for end

784
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:00.920
<v Speaker 3>user access into that, so it's it's given people what

785
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:02.920
<v Speaker 3>they've wanted. So that's a pretty big step for US.

786
00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:07.400
<v Speaker 2>And with more regions coming. And when you say EU,

787
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.480
<v Speaker 2>is that mean, I'm guessing it's like the Asia Azure

788
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:13.599
<v Speaker 2>data center in Ireland just as a guess.

789
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it'll be Europe, so it will cover off. I

790
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:20.199
<v Speaker 3>don't know how they've actually well I kind of know

791
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.559
<v Speaker 3>how they've carved up the data. But the Amsterdam region,

792
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:25.199
<v Speaker 3>which is Europe West, is the primary data center region

793
00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:28.400
<v Speaker 3>in Azure, and then North Europe is Dublin. It's a

794
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.039
<v Speaker 3>secondary one technically, right, but those are the two major ones.

795
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:33.679
<v Speaker 3>And then there are other countries that have data centers

796
00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:37.159
<v Speaker 3>in Azure, but the primary Europe regions are Europe West

797
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:37.840
<v Speaker 3>in Europe.

798
00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:39.440
<v Speaker 2>So far, yeah, I know, I know that Microsoft went

799
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:44.440
<v Speaker 2>to the trouble abuilding the Germany a specific one for them, France.

800
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:48.440
<v Speaker 3>And Switzerland even though, but Switzerland's literally Switzerland on their own.

801
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.760
<v Speaker 3>The UK has their own, but yeah, it's a lot

802
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:55.320
<v Speaker 3>of the countries are getting their own data centers just

803
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:56.280
<v Speaker 3>because of residency.

804
00:38:57.199 --> 00:38:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Anything to you know, keep the customers happy, you need.

805
00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:03.480
<v Speaker 3>To do absolutely absolutely. I know that in the UK

806
00:39:03.639 --> 00:39:07.960
<v Speaker 3>they've invested millions and millions of pounds to skill up

807
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:09.760
<v Speaker 3>the tech industry here in the UK, and they're doing

808
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:11.480
<v Speaker 3>something similar in the other countries where they put in

809
00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:14.719
<v Speaker 3>data centers. There's also a major AI skilling initiative. So

810
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:17.960
<v Speaker 3>the EU data residency thing is a hot topic for

811
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:21.840
<v Speaker 3>us and for us to release that, that's great. That

812
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:25.440
<v Speaker 3>will just keep evolving over time. And the other thing

813
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:29.639
<v Speaker 3>I've really enjoyed that we released our actions performance metrics.

814
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:33.159
<v Speaker 3>So as a DevOps person, we like observability, we like

815
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:35.960
<v Speaker 3>knowing how to improve things for the next cycle. So

816
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:38.280
<v Speaker 3>it's great, we build a thing, but how is it impacting?

817
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Is it being utilized? Are we you know? Are we

818
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:43.920
<v Speaker 3>you know Carl likes to break his build with his

819
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:48.880
<v Speaker 3>buddy over there, But how much compute is I mean, yeah,

820
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:49.760
<v Speaker 3>we all break builds.

821
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:50.239
<v Speaker 1>There we go.

822
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:53.159
<v Speaker 3>I'm just picking on Carl today. It's been a while,

823
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:56.159
<v Speaker 3>so I thought i'd pick on him. But seriously, like,

824
00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:59.079
<v Speaker 3>if Karl's working on this project with his friend, how

825
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:01.599
<v Speaker 3>much consumption using in GitHub actions are they?

826
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:02.400
<v Speaker 1>You know?

827
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:05.440
<v Speaker 3>And often when we are using CICD to deploy things,

828
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:08.639
<v Speaker 3>we have very inefficient pipelines, Our tests are running too long,

829
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:12.440
<v Speaker 3>or stuff is just you know, if his buddy has

830
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.480
<v Speaker 3>to wait an hour for the pipeline to run, why

831
00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:16.760
<v Speaker 3>can we get that down to twenty minutes fifteen minutes?

832
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:19.079
<v Speaker 3>So the action's performance measures.

833
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, analyzing that stuff is a nuisance, right, It's not

834
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:25.079
<v Speaker 2>like it is doable, but it is kind of go

835
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:27.320
<v Speaker 2>to a log, show what step it was on and

836
00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:28.880
<v Speaker 2>how long it's spent. It like you've got to do

837
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:31.239
<v Speaker 2>a lot of mining to find that where were we

838
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:31.960
<v Speaker 2>spending our time?

839
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:34.840
<v Speaker 3>Well you did, and actually the new performance metrics makes

840
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:36.800
<v Speaker 3>it easier. So it gives you a dashboard, gives you

841
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:38.719
<v Speaker 3>some high level metrics, and then you can sift through

842
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:40.760
<v Speaker 3>the data and go, right, well, this one's taking an

843
00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:42.960
<v Speaker 3>hour to run. What's our runtime over? You know an hour?

844
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.440
<v Speaker 3>Carl and his and his buddy can go look at

845
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:48.679
<v Speaker 3>that data and then drill into it, so it's a

846
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:50.760
<v Speaker 3>lot more apparent from the surface from the ten thousand

847
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:51.199
<v Speaker 3>foot view.

848
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, I noticed you blame testing right off the bat,

849
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:54.079
<v Speaker 2>so that's fair.

850
00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:58.360
<v Speaker 3>Testing does take a while sometimes you know it's worth it.

851
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:01.360
<v Speaker 2>But I'm with you, and definitely it was one of

852
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:03.719
<v Speaker 2>the things I put a lot of energy into, you know,

853
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:06.719
<v Speaker 2>splitting a set of web tests across multiple instances so

854
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:10.239
<v Speaker 2>they ran simultaneously to shorten that cycle down. But it's

855
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:12.079
<v Speaker 2>not and that's not trivial to do, but you know,

856
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:13.599
<v Speaker 2>you only do it when we were at a point

857
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.760
<v Speaker 2>where it's like it was a weekend and we wanted

858
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:18.519
<v Speaker 2>to get it down to fifteen minutes, and we got

859
00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:20.360
<v Speaker 2>it down to the idea was you had enough time

860
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:22.239
<v Speaker 2>to go and get a coffee and by the time

861
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:27.559
<v Speaker 2>you got back all of yours right, yeah, well so

862
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:29.679
<v Speaker 2>that your head was still in the game, right, like

863
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.079
<v Speaker 2>you hadn't started on something else. That's you got the

864
00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:32.960
<v Speaker 2>feedback or delay.

865
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:35.760
<v Speaker 1>The rest of the big theme in our discussions is

866
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:39.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, if you if the time between you know,

867
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:43.360
<v Speaker 1>builds or or whatever it is, c ICD publishing is

868
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:46.119
<v Speaker 1>too long you you're thinking about something else and you've

869
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:46.519
<v Speaker 1>moved on.

870
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:50.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know the classic one literally was this

871
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:52.519
<v Speaker 2>is strangely but it was a weekend. It's like you

872
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:54.440
<v Speaker 2>did the push on Friday. On Monday, I got the

873
00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:56.199
<v Speaker 2>report and you could get it to anybody because you

874
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:58.599
<v Speaker 2>had no clue. Like at that point it didn't matter.

875
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Anybody had to pick it up again. But yeah, getting

876
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.639
<v Speaker 2>it down to fifteen minutes with that sort of magic number,

877
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:07.000
<v Speaker 2>but it meant harnessing a lot of hardware. You know,

878
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:10.559
<v Speaker 2>the productivity went through the roof because people didn't get

879
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:14.360
<v Speaker 2>off the thread. You very quar The remediations were really

880
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.199
<v Speaker 2>fast when it was that short. It paid for itself

881
00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:17.800
<v Speaker 2>pretty fast.

882
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:20.719
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, And I think as we see customers consuming a

883
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.400
<v Speaker 3>lot of actions and if you automate the life out

884
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:26.079
<v Speaker 3>of your repository, and not just with CICD, but you know,

885
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:27.920
<v Speaker 3>when you open up an issue kicks off a bunch

886
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.679
<v Speaker 3>of actions, et cetera, and tasks and automation, you have

887
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:33.599
<v Speaker 3>to be efficient with how you utilize them. Otherwise you're

888
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:36.039
<v Speaker 3>not saving any time. And yeah, you do, you do

889
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:40.519
<v Speaker 3>increase your billy. So with any process, observability and reporting

890
00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:42.360
<v Speaker 3>is crucial, but it's such a pain in the butt. However,

891
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:45.840
<v Speaker 3>the new performance metrics feature is really cool. So I'm

892
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:48.519
<v Speaker 3>biased because I love actions, but it's cool feature. So yeah,

893
00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:50.920
<v Speaker 3>that's those are those are the most notable things. There's

894
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:55.199
<v Speaker 3>been other things around enterprise capability as well. Huge push

895
00:42:55.239 --> 00:42:57.599
<v Speaker 3>on enterprise, so not just source control anymore.

896
00:42:57.320 --> 00:42:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Because you don't think of gethub as enterprise product, right,

897
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:02.599
<v Speaker 2>It's always been that scrappy upstart that's sort of a

898
00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:07.239
<v Speaker 2>happy place for open source to live. But let's face it,

899
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.679
<v Speaker 2>nights because a few enterprises that use GitHub these days.

900
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:13.280
<v Speaker 2>One of them Nay, Microsoft, Yes, they.

901
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:15.559
<v Speaker 3>Well they don't all eat well, they're not entirely on guble.

902
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:17.320
<v Speaker 3>They still use Azure develops a bit, but we won't.

903
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:21.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh sure, yeah, but is gethub running an Azure?

904
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:26.159
<v Speaker 3>Is Gethub running an Azure? Well we have runners in Azure,

905
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.840
<v Speaker 3>code spaces sits in Azure. But no, we have stuff

906
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:33.559
<v Speaker 3>in different places. I'm pretty sure we have that documented somewhere.

907
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:34.599
<v Speaker 3>So I entirely an Azure.

908
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:36.079
<v Speaker 2>Sure it's more complicated than that.

909
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:38.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's above my pay grade.

910
00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:41.079
<v Speaker 2>What is the explanation for enterprise cloud?

911
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:43.400
<v Speaker 3>What is that? What do you mean the explanation like

912
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:44.159
<v Speaker 3>why we have it?

913
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:46.639
<v Speaker 1>Explain yourselves? What is it?

914
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:49.960
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm thinking a lot of folks that listen

915
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:51.800
<v Speaker 2>to the show have been using gihub in a very

916
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.320
<v Speaker 2>traditional way, the way that it has always been, and

917
00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:57.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe haven't been and maybe it's throughout their organization now,

918
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:01.320
<v Speaker 2>but again it's kind of piecemeal. Does Enterprise Cloud kind

919
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:04.360
<v Speaker 2>of organize things for them? Does it lift that up?

920
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.239
<v Speaker 2>Give us a little more governance?

921
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:08.760
<v Speaker 3>It gives us a lot of governance. There is quite

922
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:10.480
<v Speaker 3>a bit of governments built into the platform. I think

923
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:12.480
<v Speaker 3>the one thing you have to think about when using GitHub,

924
00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:15.719
<v Speaker 3>if you've been using azur DevOps or get lab, you

925
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:20.800
<v Speaker 3>can't always think of where you've come from. So often

926
00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:22.280
<v Speaker 3>I'll work with people like, yeah, we came from get

927
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:25.079
<v Speaker 3>lab and I can't find how to do X. So

928
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:27.320
<v Speaker 3>often it's there, just in a very different place, in

929
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:28.920
<v Speaker 3>a different way. And that was a big change I

930
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:30.559
<v Speaker 3>had to make when I was working purely with az

931
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:33.119
<v Speaker 3>your DevOps was how to do things a little differently.

932
00:44:33.159 --> 00:44:35.000
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, we have a huge push on governance and

933
00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:38.159
<v Speaker 3>we want our customers to scale, whether they're startups or

934
00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:42.199
<v Speaker 3>large enterprises, and there's a huge amount of time and effort.

935
00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:44.599
<v Speaker 3>And that's where the EU Data residency came in because

936
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:48.199
<v Speaker 3>our enterprise customers are screaming for it. You know, I

937
00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:50.519
<v Speaker 3>don't have the existing stat but at one point they're

938
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:53.800
<v Speaker 3>over seventy thousand enterprise customers using GitHub. That was probably

939
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:55.400
<v Speaker 3>a year, year and a half ago, so it's probably

940
00:44:56.199 --> 00:44:58.440
<v Speaker 3>more now eighty ninety thousand or one hundred thousand or

941
00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:04.400
<v Speaker 3>some insane number. But you know, enterprises also help drive features,

942
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:08.280
<v Speaker 3>We'll be honest, that help open source projects and help

943
00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:15.119
<v Speaker 3>community projects, right because you know, enterprises can help, you know,

944
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.400
<v Speaker 3>put in the requests and they utilize it, and sometimes

945
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:20.320
<v Speaker 3>there are biggest users of the new features as well

946
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:21.119
<v Speaker 3>to give feedback.

947
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:23.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, help push you guys forward too. And you know,

948
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:27.679
<v Speaker 2>we've had an ongoing conversation here about enterprises playing well

949
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:30.880
<v Speaker 2>in the open source community. I still feel like it's

950
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.199
<v Speaker 2>too hard for an enterprise to even know what open

951
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.719
<v Speaker 2>source libraries they're dependent on and how dependent they are

952
00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:40.039
<v Speaker 2>on them. I spent enough time with CFOs and I've

953
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:44.639
<v Speaker 2>always resisted being one to know they would write a

954
00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:49.039
<v Speaker 2>check a year for this stuff, just spend it.

955
00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Well.

956
00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:52.000
<v Speaker 2>What they don't want to do is have one hundred

957
00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:54.639
<v Speaker 2>requests or a thousand requests to support different projects that

958
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:57.000
<v Speaker 2>they're not interested in that And I've never seen a

959
00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:00.719
<v Speaker 2>dashboard at an enterprise level that said, given we allocated

960
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:03.360
<v Speaker 2>ten thousand dollars for this, what projects should we spend?

961
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:05.880
<v Speaker 1>S Bomb dependency graphs?

962
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:08.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean it's I still feel like the

963
00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:08.639
<v Speaker 2>ass bomb.

964
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:10.719
<v Speaker 1>You need a graph. You need to see the better

965
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:13.199
<v Speaker 1>right as bombs cloud or something.

966
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well on graph just from a security perspective of, Hey,

967
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.159
<v Speaker 2>this project's got to meet you know this owens. Our

968
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:22.760
<v Speaker 2>project's got a major exploit in it? How many of

969
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:23.880
<v Speaker 2>our apps used that?

970
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:24.280
<v Speaker 3>Like?

971
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:26.840
<v Speaker 2>That's not It's still not an easy question to answer.

972
00:46:26.679 --> 00:46:29.039
<v Speaker 1>But it's screaming for an AI solution, isn't it?

973
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Well?

974
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:31.880
<v Speaker 3>You know, funnily enough, we have a solution for that

975
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:35.880
<v Speaker 3>that courtse we do, right, But no, we do have

976
00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:38.400
<v Speaker 3>dependent on in one of our security features of GitHub

977
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.159
<v Speaker 3>Advanced Security, and it does scan all the dependencies in

978
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:44.840
<v Speaker 3>your repository and gives you report opens a poor request

979
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:46.679
<v Speaker 3>and gives you a suggestive fix and gives you the

980
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:51.159
<v Speaker 3>information because managing those things is terrible. I have worked

981
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:52.920
<v Speaker 3>with a lot of customers that use the s bomb

982
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:55.760
<v Speaker 3>feature to export and know what they're consuming, how they're

983
00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:58.320
<v Speaker 3>consuming it, and they've made it part of their development

984
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:02.039
<v Speaker 3>cycle to remediate now and it's easier and less time

985
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:03.760
<v Speaker 3>consuming to remediate those dependencies.

986
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:04.119
<v Speaker 2>Right.

987
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.159
<v Speaker 3>And there are some great customers consuming I mean most

988
00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:10.679
<v Speaker 3>customers are consuming open source. I have not spoken to

989
00:47:10.760 --> 00:47:13.320
<v Speaker 3>one enterprise customer that does not consume any form of

990
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:13.840
<v Speaker 3>open source.

991
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:16.800
<v Speaker 2>If you're not consuming open source, you're lying to yourself

992
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.360
<v Speaker 2>like it's there, you're just not paying attention to it.

993
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:24.880
<v Speaker 2>But I'm getting putting the enterprise architect hat on where Okay,

994
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:27.360
<v Speaker 2>we have a dependency on this library. We don't know

995
00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:29.960
<v Speaker 2>exactly how many projects use it, Like we're going to

996
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:31.679
<v Speaker 2>figure out a way to fix this and then want

997
00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:33.920
<v Speaker 2>to propagate it across all of them, like I need

998
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.840
<v Speaker 2>that macroscopic view. I've hung out with enough of these

999
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:42.320
<v Speaker 2>folks to know they've got a thousand apps and they're like, okay,

1000
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:44.880
<v Speaker 2>give me the landscape. How many of these have this

1001
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.239
<v Speaker 2>dependency and how are they different? Can we roll them

1002
00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:49.280
<v Speaker 2>across all of them quickly? We don't have to light

1003
00:47:49.480 --> 00:47:52.119
<v Speaker 2>each team up. You know half those apps have no

1004
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:53.000
<v Speaker 2>team anymore.

1005
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:54.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, very true, very true.

1006
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:56.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, how do we rehabilitate all that. So I'm

1007
00:47:56.360 --> 00:47:58.599
<v Speaker 2>hoping that that there is that higher level view like

1008
00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:00.719
<v Speaker 2>I get. I look at dependent on a project by

1009
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:03.000
<v Speaker 2>project basis, and it does a good job from.

1010
00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:05.639
<v Speaker 3>The from the enterprise management side, there's a huge there's

1011
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:07.079
<v Speaker 3>a way to export the s BAWM mount from the

1012
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:10.440
<v Speaker 3>organization side. So if you haven't managed at your organizational level,

1013
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:13.159
<v Speaker 3>you can pull that s BAM out and get that

1014
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:16.480
<v Speaker 3>reporting out if you want. And actually another good way

1015
00:48:16.519 --> 00:48:18.960
<v Speaker 3>to do it at the organizational level is export out

1016
00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:22.199
<v Speaker 3>to a dashboard which you can get within githup. But

1017
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:23.960
<v Speaker 3>I have a lot of people doing it through power BI.

1018
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:26.480
<v Speaker 3>So if you have good data skills there you.

1019
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:28.679
<v Speaker 2>Go all right, so you just export it out do

1020
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:29.599
<v Speaker 2>your own analysis.

1021
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:31.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, if you want to.

1022
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, it's a solution.

1023
00:48:33.159 --> 00:48:35.559
<v Speaker 3>And then but we do have we do have some dashboards,

1024
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:36.679
<v Speaker 3>we do have some dashbouds.

1025
00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:38.440
<v Speaker 2>But then it's and then it's to put you. Of course,

1026
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:40.039
<v Speaker 2>you'd know if you had a high dependency in this,

1027
00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:42.280
<v Speaker 2>because every project would line up with depend about it

1028
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:44.119
<v Speaker 2>once exactly.

1029
00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:47.239
<v Speaker 3>It's like a Christmas street. It's literally red, yellow, green.

1030
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, big explosion of red all over the place.

1031
00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:52.920
<v Speaker 3>Exactly exactly, well, at least it's Christmas.

1032
00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Themed, although often with those it has a remediation already,

1033
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:56.519
<v Speaker 2>it does.

1034
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:57.960
<v Speaker 3>They have a remediation. They give you the.

1035
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Poorest, accept the pr and let the builds run and

1036
00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:07.039
<v Speaker 2>hope nothing breaks. But I, you know, again and at

1037
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:09.880
<v Speaker 2>a senior level, when this came down, I would want

1038
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:14.159
<v Speaker 2>to lock everything, try one, like, there's other way. This

1039
00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:18.079
<v Speaker 2>remediation fails. We just broke a hundred apps, right, I

1040
00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:20.840
<v Speaker 2>would rather be vulnerable with ninety nine of them while

1041
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:22.920
<v Speaker 2>we're trying to fix one and when we got to

1042
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:24.119
<v Speaker 2>fix and fix the rest.

1043
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:26.679
<v Speaker 3>Yes, what you can do, you can granuarize that.

1044
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:30.320
<v Speaker 1>There's another problem that is maybe a little harder to detect,

1045
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:34.119
<v Speaker 1>and that is if you're using a tool or something

1046
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:38.360
<v Speaker 1>that works and it compiles, but then there's an exploit

1047
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:42.840
<v Speaker 1>posted and a CVE against it, you know, and you

1048
00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:47.159
<v Speaker 1>might not know that just just looking at it, but

1049
00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:50.800
<v Speaker 1>that means that needs to be updated. So you know,

1050
00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:56.239
<v Speaker 1>getting current versions of things is a constant whack a mole, right,

1051
00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:00.760
<v Speaker 1>yeah it is. And so does the depend about sort

1052
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:04.960
<v Speaker 1>of look at those, does it look for cvees against.

1053
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:08.440
<v Speaker 3>Yes, so it pulls out the latest CVE updates, and

1054
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:12.039
<v Speaker 3>then there's one that if there's an exploit that you know,

1055
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:14.039
<v Speaker 3>we work with security experts across the globe, you they

1056
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:17.119
<v Speaker 3>can also report them in to us. But there the

1057
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:21.760
<v Speaker 3>updates are pretty good, pretty well up to date, I've

1058
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:25.280
<v Speaker 3>not seen very many missed to be honest with you,

1059
00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:28.440
<v Speaker 3>it's been a really solid product. It's been. It picks

1060
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:30.039
<v Speaker 3>up a lot of stuff that I didn't even know existed,

1061
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:33.400
<v Speaker 3>even in like one of my top debo repositories, really

1062
00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:37.960
<v Speaker 3>simple code. It must have twelve thirteen depends.

1063
00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:42.679
<v Speaker 1>On word press plug chance. This week, word press plug

1064
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:47.039
<v Speaker 1>ins seem to I'll find out be attacked the most

1065
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:49.320
<v Speaker 1>from just bad developers.

1066
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:52.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, word press is the Internet explorer of

1067
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:54.960
<v Speaker 2>this age, right Like it's the most hacked thing because

1068
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:56.960
<v Speaker 2>it's used in so many places.

1069
00:50:57.159 --> 00:50:59.360
<v Speaker 1>It's the plugins that are the problem. That word Press

1070
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:02.280
<v Speaker 1>itself is and it's pretty pretty good, but pretty robotic.

1071
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:05.199
<v Speaker 1>But people write these plugins for stupid stuff and then

1072
00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:08.639
<v Speaker 1>they just don't understand security and they leave holes.

1073
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:11.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, they think they're living in a happy little community,

1074
00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:13.559
<v Speaker 2>and then that happy little community gets invaded by black

1075
00:51:13.639 --> 00:51:19.519
<v Speaker 2>hats and it's not so happy. Anymore. I still still

1076
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:21.360
<v Speaker 2>want to get back to this contribution side of things.

1077
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:25.119
<v Speaker 2>I think these tools would be awesome, like if I

1078
00:51:25.159 --> 00:51:28.480
<v Speaker 2>could keep track of the pull requests that my team

1079
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:31.320
<v Speaker 2>had made into those open source librarries. So it's you know,

1080
00:51:31.480 --> 00:51:36.599
<v Speaker 2>part of our overall corporate giving structure is, hey, we're

1081
00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:39.320
<v Speaker 2>we allocate a day a month for you to contribute

1082
00:51:39.320 --> 00:51:42.320
<v Speaker 2>to these open source projects on our dime. Right, we'll

1083
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:45.320
<v Speaker 2>pay you keep working, but you know, automating all that

1084
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:47.760
<v Speaker 2>capability to go. One of the ways we contributed is

1085
00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:51.599
<v Speaker 2>we all we have resources onto those projects too, as

1086
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:54.679
<v Speaker 2>well as hopefully some cash for the other for the

1087
00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:58.119
<v Speaker 2>those maintainers that then often don't get a lot of love.

1088
00:51:58.360 --> 00:51:59.599
<v Speaker 3>There's money involved in this hold on.

1089
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:00.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to check.

1090
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Not that much money. Goodness knows, no, I think you know.

1091
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:09.039
<v Speaker 3>It's it's something that I don't I'll be honest. I

1092
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:11.840
<v Speaker 3>work with enterprise licensing so much. I'm pretty sure we

1093
00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:15.960
<v Speaker 3>open up de pendabot for open source projects right and

1094
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:19.880
<v Speaker 3>under the advanced security piece for public repositories. I'm ninety

1095
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:22.440
<v Speaker 3>nine point nine percent sure of that. However, someone can

1096
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:25.400
<v Speaker 3>correct me if I'm wrong. But we we wanted to

1097
00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:28.400
<v Speaker 3>help the open source community a lot with that and

1098
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:33.320
<v Speaker 3>that credibility. But I think it's the private repositories where

1099
00:52:33.320 --> 00:52:35.400
<v Speaker 3>it's a paid for option. I don't touch money. That's

1100
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:37.719
<v Speaker 3>really like the summer, you're better off.

1101
00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:40.039
<v Speaker 2>It's a whole other conversation to have. And when we

1102
00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:42.400
<v Speaker 2>can't have today, Oh shucks.

1103
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:46.199
<v Speaker 1>So what's next for you? What's in your inbox?

1104
00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:47.400
<v Speaker 3>Uh?

1105
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're keeping you sleeping upon us.

1106
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:57.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, no. I actually it's content development right now.

1107
00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:02.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm I'm home for a little bit. It's getting content out.

1108
00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:04.440
<v Speaker 3>We have a lot of people and you know, we've

1109
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:07.159
<v Speaker 3>talked about it today. All the co pilot features, all

1110
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:10.239
<v Speaker 3>the enterprise features, people just are not aware of and

1111
00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:12.639
<v Speaker 3>to us, you know, when you're doing it day and

1112
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:16.480
<v Speaker 3>day out, it seems like we're quite transparent with these features.

1113
00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:18.679
<v Speaker 3>But the reality is we don't have enough repeating content.

1114
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:21.639
<v Speaker 3>So you guys were talking about all the social platforms earlier.

1115
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:24.559
<v Speaker 3>So it's a lot of litmus testing with Instagram, TikTok

1116
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:28.559
<v Speaker 3>and blue sky Now and LinkedIn, And for me, it's

1117
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:30.760
<v Speaker 3>going to be some content creation on how to use

1118
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:33.320
<v Speaker 3>this stuff, and then I don't know, we'll see what

1119
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:36.039
<v Speaker 3>happens in twenty twenty five. I'm just you know, I'm

1120
00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:39.599
<v Speaker 3>just enjoying being in one country for a few weeks.

1121
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Weird.

1122
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:45.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, is there? Where do you go scuba diving

1123
00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:45.639
<v Speaker 1>in the UK?

1124
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:51.239
<v Speaker 3>Well, it depends either I go up to Scotland or

1125
00:53:51.320 --> 00:53:54.079
<v Speaker 3>I go down to the south coast or the northeast.

1126
00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Right now, still, that's still all dry suit, right. That

1127
00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:58.000
<v Speaker 2>water's cold.

1128
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:00.039
<v Speaker 3>Oh, it's I don't I don't dive in anything but

1129
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:03.320
<v Speaker 3>a drysuit. It's cold. I think water temperature a few

1130
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:07.199
<v Speaker 3>weeks ago in the UK was like seven degrees in

1131
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:08.199
<v Speaker 3>one of the quarries I was in.

1132
00:54:08.599 --> 00:54:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1133
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:13.360
<v Speaker 3>Ouch, Yeah, it's it's it's spring fed, so it's always

1134
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:14.159
<v Speaker 3>cold at the bottom.

1135
00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I'm living by the ocean here. This is

1136
00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:19.280
<v Speaker 2>the ocean I grew up near, and it's ten degrees

1137
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:21.599
<v Speaker 2>pretty much all year round. You have a few minutes

1138
00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:24.039
<v Speaker 2>before you start to lose coordination.

1139
00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:27.159
<v Speaker 1>Coldest water I ever felt was the Saint Lawrence River

1140
00:54:28.119 --> 00:54:29.280
<v Speaker 1>and it was summertime.

1141
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:29.800
<v Speaker 2>That's cold.

1142
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:32.360
<v Speaker 1>And I waded out into the Saint Lawrence. After about

1143
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:37.719
<v Speaker 1>ten seconds my bones froze. Yeah, it's basically what I

1144
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:40.320
<v Speaker 1>thought was happening. Yeah, all right.

1145
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:45.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's been in four degree water, which is thirty

1146
00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:49.400
<v Speaker 3>thirty nine forty degrees fahrenheit, and that is yeah, soul crushing,

1147
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:50.519
<v Speaker 3>soul crushing.

1148
00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:52.559
<v Speaker 1>All right, April, I'm sure there's a lot more we

1149
00:54:52.599 --> 00:54:54.360
<v Speaker 1>could talk about, but will you come back when you

1150
00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:55.039
<v Speaker 1>have more to say?

1151
00:54:55.760 --> 00:54:57.119
<v Speaker 3>I will absolutely come back for you.

1152
00:54:57.199 --> 00:55:00.679
<v Speaker 1>Guys. Well, thank you again, thank you, thank you for listening,

1153
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:02.880
<v Speaker 1>and we'll see you next time on dot net rocks.

1154
00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:26.320
<v Speaker 4>Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net

1155
00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:30.519
<v Speaker 4>and produced by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video

1156
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:34.639
<v Speaker 4>and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut,

1157
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:39.159
<v Speaker 4>and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.

1158
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:42.000
<v Speaker 4>Visit our website at d O T N E t

1159
00:55:42.320 --> 00:55:46.320
<v Speaker 4>R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,

1160
00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:50.159
<v Speaker 4>mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going

1161
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:53.599
<v Speaker 4>back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand

1162
00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:56.239
<v Speaker 4>and two, and make sure you check out our sponsors.

1163
00:55:56.440 --> 00:55:59.239
<v Speaker 1>They keep us in business. Now, go write some code.

1164
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:00.519
<v Speaker 1>See you next time.

1165
00:56:01.880 --> 00:56:09.559
<v Speaker 4>Tree Middle Vans Day, summer time that means home.

1166
00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Then my Texas in line read