Speaker 1: Okay, so picture this future archaeologists, way way in the future,
thousands of years from now, they're digging through what's left
of well us, our civilization. What do you think they'd
make of like a fossilized twinkie, you know, or like
a petrophied smartphone. Kind of a funny thought, right, but
it actually leads perfectly into what we're diving deep into today.
It's called the Silurian hypothesis, and the basic idea is,
could there have been like other civilizations before humans even
existed here on Earth, civilizations that just vanished, you know,
no trace.
Speaker 2: It's a wild idea for sure. And you know the
tricky part is trying to find proof of any civilization
gets way harder the further back you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. It's not like we're tripping over dinosaur bones
every day, and they were around for what like eighty
million years, a long time. So speaking of dinosaurs, how
does like the way the Earth naturally changes make this
search even tougher?
Speaker 2: Well, imagine the Earth's surface like a giant jigsaw puzzle,
but the pieces are always moving. You've got plate tectonics, erosion, volcanoes,
it's all constantly shifting. Things around.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, and the.
Speaker 2: Oldest exposed land, the stuff we can actually see and study,
it's only about one point eight million years old. Anything
older than that probably buried deep underground.
Speaker 1: So if you're looking for like a lost city from
millions of years ago, it's kind of like trying to
find a needle in a haystack the size of the
entire planet pretty much.
Speaker 2: And then there's fossilization, our usual way to peek into
the past. But I gotta remember fossils, they're super rare.
They need the perfect conditions to even form, like buried quickly,
not much oxygen around, tons of pressure. Even with dinosaurs
who are stomping around for ages, we've only found a tiny,
tiny fraction of the remains.
Speaker 1: Wow, that really puts things in perspective. If finding dino
bits is that hard, imagine trying to find traces of
like a civilization that might not have been as big
or around for as long exactly.
Speaker 2: Plus, even if they were super advanced, their stuff wouldn't
last forever. I mean, metal rusts, concrete crumbles, give it
a few thousand years tops, and those traces are gone.
Speaker 1: So we're probably not going to find like crumbling ruins
or fossilized iPhones, then probably not. But the Celarian hypothesis
it suggests a different way to look for these lost
civilizations right right.
Speaker 2: Instead of hunting for actual objects, it says, look for
subtle changes in the Earth's chemistry. It's geology kind of
like trying to find a fingerprint, but the print is
in the planet's history.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I get it. So instead of searching for
the needle in the haystack, we're looking for like a
specific pattern in the hay itself. You got it. But
how would that even work.
Speaker 2: Well, let's start with something you might have heard of,
the anthropiscene. It's what we call the current geological age,
the one where humans are basically the biggest influence on
the environment. And get this, we're leaving behind some pretty
clear markers that could be detectable millions of years from now.
Speaker 1: Even though we haven't built any like fancy space ships
or anything yet, we're still leaving our mark on the
planet in a way that like future civilizations, maybe even
alien archaeologists might notice.
Speaker 2: Exactly. For one thing, all the fertilizer we use, it's
messing with the planet's nitrogen cycle. The ratio of different
nitrogen isotopes is changing and that gets preserved in sedimentary rocks.
It's like we're signing our name in the planet's chemistry book,
you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, interesting. So it's not just about what we build,
but about how we change the planet's natural processes. What
other markers are we leaving.
Speaker 2: Well, think about all the soil erosion that happens because
of farming and cutting down forests. That soil washes into
the oceans and eventually it forms layers of sediment. And
you've got mining. All those metals we dig up, gold, platinum,
they end up in those same sediment layers. It's like
we're leaving a trail of breadcrumbs, but the bread crumbs
are like heavy metals.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty wild image. But are these changes really
like big enough to be noticeable millions of years later.
The Earth's gone through so many natural transformations over time.
How would we tell the difference between those and the
changes we're making.
Speaker 2: That is a great question and it's something scientists are
really working on figuring out. Yeah, Earth's systems are complicated, right,
Separating natural changes from the human caused ones is a
tough job. But there's one marker that might really stand out.
It's called the SEUs effect.
Speaker 1: The SEUs effect, like doctor Seuss, Did he write a
book about climate change? I missed or something?
Speaker 2: No, No, not quite. It's actually named after Hans Seuss,
a scientist who studied carbon isotopes and the SEUs effect.
It describes how burning fossil fuels is changing the balance
of those isotopes in the atmosphere.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it is about our carbon footprint, But like
on a deeper level, why would this SEUs effect be
so important for future civilizations.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing about carbon. It comes in different
forms called isotopes, and plants that they prefer to absorb
a lighter form of carbon twelve when they're doing photosynthesis.
So the animals that eat those plants, and the animals
that eat those animals, they all end up with more
carbon twelve in them. Okay, but when we burn fossil fuels,
you know, which are basically ancient plant matter, we release
a ton of this carbon twelve back into the atmosphere,
and that messes up the natural balance of carbon isotopes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this shift.
Speaker 2: We can see it in the air and the oceans,
and most importantly, it gets trapped in those sedimentary rocks.
Speaker 1: So future civilizations could analyze those rocks, see this sudden
jump in carbon twelve and be like, hold on, someone
was burning a lot of stuff back then.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Of course, other things can cause spikes in carbon
twelve too, like volcanoes erupting, But the size and the
suddenness of the change, especially when you see it along
with those other markers like the weird nitrogen levels and
the heavy metal deposits, well, that could be a strong
sign of an industrial civilization.
Speaker 1: It's like putting together a puzzle, right right, Each piece
gives you more of the whole picture.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's not just about finding a lost city or
like a rusty robot. We're talking about figuring out the
chemical history of the entire planet to find these subtle
hints of a civilization that's long gone.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: This is seriously fascinating stuff, it is.
Speaker 2: And it's not just about looking back in time here
on Earth either. Oh, the Silurian hypothesis. It actually has
some big implications for our search for life on other
planets too.
Speaker 1: WHOA, Okay, now that is what I call a cliffhanger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the search for life outside of Earth. It always
gets people excited, you know, and when you add in
the solarian hypothesis, well, it really opens up all kinds
of possibilities.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like taking off blinders, right, Like, we could
be looking for the wrong things if we're only searching
for civilizations that are kind of like ours.
Speaker 2: That is exactly, if we accept that civilizations can rise
and fall and you know, maybe only leave these subtle
chemical clues behind, it changes how we think about finding
extraterrestus life.
Speaker 1: So instead of like hoping to pick up a radio
signal from an alien civilization, maybe we should be looking
for chemical imbalances in a planet's atmosphere.
Speaker 2: That's definitely one way to go about it. Think about it,
if a civilization on another planet went through their own
industrial age and then you know, collapsed, we might not
find things like cities or spaceships, but we could still
find those chemical fingerprints, those telltale signs we talked about.
Speaker 1: Like the CFCs you mentioned before, the stuff we used
in like refrigerators and spray cans before we figured out
they were messing up the ozone layer.
Speaker 2: Exactly, if we found CFCs in a planet's atmosphere, that'd
be a pretty good sign that there was industrial activity,
even if that civilization is long gone.
Speaker 1: It's like finding it, like an empty plastic bottle on
a deserted island. You know someone was there, even if
you can't see them anymore.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it, and it brings
a whole new level of complexity to the Drake equation.
Speaker 1: Oh, the Drake equation that always makes my head spin
a little. It's that equation that tries to calculate how
many detects civilizations might be out there.
Speaker 2: That's the one. It takes into account all kinds of
factors like how many stars are forming, how many of
those stars have planets, how many of those planets could
support life. It's basically trying to put numbers to how
much we don't know about the universe.
Speaker 1: But even with all those unknowns, the Drake equation suggests
that there could be like millions, maybe even billions of
civilizations out there.
Speaker 2: Right, And that's where the Clarian hypothesis gets really interesting.
What if civilizations don't just pop up once on a planet?
What if they happen multiple times? Like what if intelligence evolves,
you know, thrives for a while, then disappears, and then
millions of years later it happens all over again.
Speaker 1: WHOA. So you're saying there could be multiple cycles of
civilization on a single planet. That's that's incredible. So a
planet could be full of life, even intelligent life at
one point, yeah, then go quiet for millions of years,
and then boom, it all starts up again.
Speaker 2: It's definitely a possibility. And if that's the case, then
our chances of a civilization that's active right now while
we're looking are much lower. Even if there have been
many civilizations over time, it all comes down to timing.
Speaker 1: So we could be looking at a planet that's in
a like a quiet phase right now, missing out on
all the action that happened millions of years ago. It'd
be like tuning into a radio station after the song
you wanted to hear has already finished.
Speaker 2: Exactly. But the Silurian hypothesis has another side to it.
It encourages us to look for signs of past life
in some unexpected places, even right here in our own
solar system.
Speaker 1: Wait, are you suggesting there could have been ancient civilizations
on like Mars.
Speaker 2: It might sound crazy, but it's not totally out there.
Billions of years ago, Mars was way warmer and wetter
than it is now. We know there used to be
rivers and lakes, maybe even in ocean. It's possible that
life could have evolved there, maybe even to the point
of intelligence.
Speaker 1: So instead of little green men, we might find traces
of little red men hiding under the Martian surface. Now,
that would be a story for the history books.
Speaker 2: And it's not just Mars Venus, even though it's super
hot now, it's thought to have been habitable a long
time ago. And then there's Europa, one of Jupiter's moons.
It has a huge ocean under its icy surface.
Speaker 1: Wow. The solarian hypothesis really does like unlock all these
new possibilities for where and how we look for life.
It's like a universal key exactly.
Speaker 2: It's a reminder that the universe is vast and ancient
and full of surprises. We haven't found solid proof of
other civilizations yet, but the search itself is pretty amazing,
you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really makes you wonder what stories are out
there just waiting to be discovered.
Speaker 2: It does. But let's bring it back to Earth for
a minute. Remember that event you mentioned before, the one
that seemed kind of similar to what we're doing now
with fossil fuels and climate change. The Paleocene Eocene, themal
maximum or PTM.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the PTM that happened, like what fifty six
million years ago? Global temperatures and carbon levels spiked. Suddenly.
It does sound kind of familiar, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: It does. So the question is, did some ancient civilization
have their own version of an industrial revolution, pump a
bunch of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and cause a
climate catastrophe.
Speaker 1: It's a tempting theory, for sure, but I'm guessing the
answer is a little more complicated than that.
Speaker 2: Well, the similarities are definitely there, but the scientific community
generally thinks that the PTM was caused by natural processes.
Speaker 1: Okay, so no ancient SUVs driving around fifty six million
years ago. So what's the main theory for what caused
the PTM? Then?
Speaker 2: Most scientists believe it was massive volcanic eruptions. There's evidence
of a lot of volcanic activity during that time period,
especially in the North Atlantic, and those eruptions would have
released huge amounts of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases
which would have led to that rapid warming.
Speaker 1: So instead of factories and cars, it was volcanoes acting
like the planet's carbon emitters. But even if the PTM
wasn't caused by some ancient civilization, it still shows us
how big of an impact carbon emissions can have on
the Earth, no matter where they come from.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's a powerful reminder that Earth's climate system is
very sensitive to changes in greenhouse gas levels, whether those
gases come from volcanoes, fossil fuels, or anything else. The
PTM is like a warning from the past, showing us
what can happen when the planet's carbon cycle gets disrupted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a sobering thought. It seems like the PTM,
even though it's not proof of an ancient civilization, it
gives us some valuable insights into what could happen because
of our own actions.
Speaker 2: Exactly. The PTM was not a fun time for life
on Earth. Temperatures shot up, the oceans became more acidic,
and there were extinctions all over the place. It took
tens of thousands of years for the planet to recover.
Speaker 1: So even though we might be the first civilization on
Earth to drive cars and stuff, we're definitely not the
first to have a big impact on the planet, and
we're not the first to experience the consequences of messing
with the climate.
Speaker 2: That's a good point. It seems like every civilization faces
its own set of challenges, but there are also some
universal lessons that we can learn from the past.
Speaker 1: It's a reminder that we're all connected to each other,
to the history of life on this planet, and maybe
even to other civilizations that might have come before us.
Speaker 2: It's a humbling thought. But let's not get too caught
up in the big picture. We've talked about how hard
it is to find proof of past civilizations, the possibility
of multiple cycles of civilization on a planet, and the
clues that the PTM offers. But what does it all
mean for us for humanity right now?
Speaker 1: That's a huge question, and honestly, I think it deserves
its own deep dive. But for now, let's shift gears
and explore what the Silurian hypothesis means for the future
of humanity. Okay, so we're back and ready to tackle
that big question. We've gone deep into the solarian hypothesis,
talked about how hard it is defined evidence considered those
multiple cycles of civilization, even peaked into Earth's pass with
the PTM. But what does all this mean for us
right now?
Speaker 2: It really makes you think about where we fit in
in the grand scheme of things. You know, It's like
it challenges us to look beyond just our own lifetimes
and think about what we're leaving behind for well, everyone
and everything that comes after us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you're zooming out on that timeline of
history and you realize, oh, our civilization is just a
tiny blip. It's kind of humbling and maybe a little
scary too, for sure.
Speaker 2: And it brings up some big questions about where we're headed,
Like if there were civilizations before us, what happened to them?
Did they face the same problems we're dealing with now,
did they find solutions, or you know, did they just collapse.
Speaker 1: It's like trying to solve a puzzle, but you only
have a few pieces. We get these little hints about
the past, these glimpses, but the whole picture is still
a mystery, and it makes you wonder are we on
the same track, Like are we going to repeat the
mistakes of whoever came before?
Speaker 2: The Silurian hypothesis doesn't give us any easy answers, but
it does give us a new way to look at things.
It makes us think about what kind of legacy we're
leaving not just for our kids and grandkids, but for
any intelligent life that might come after us way down
the lines.
Speaker 1: It's like, we have to be better ancestors. We have
to make choices that create a better future, not just
for us, but for all forms of life that could
end up on this planet.
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's all about understanding that we're part of something bigger,
something that stretches across time and space. The things we
do today they have effects that go way beyond just
us right here, right now.
Speaker 1: It's a big responsibility, but it's also I do it
feels kind of empowering too, Like we have this chance
to learn from the past, to try a different path,
to make a future that's better for everyone and everything.
Speaker 2: And who knows, maybe millions of years from now, some
future civilization will look back at us and see that
we made the right choices. They might find those techno
signatures we leave behind and be inspired by what we accomplished.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a nice thought. It'd be amazing to
be remembered as the generation that actually turned things around
the ones who set humanity on a path towards a brighter.
Speaker 2: It would it's a goal worth fighting for.
Speaker 1: Well, this deep dive has been Wow. Quite the journey, right,
so many mind blowing ideas and thought provoking questions. But
before we finish up, I want to leave our listeners
with one last thought experiment. Imagine you're that archaeologist from
the distant future digging through the layers of time. What
traces of our civilization would you find most interesting? Like?
What story would they tell?
Speaker 2: Hmm, it's a great question. I think they would be
really struck by how diverse human culture was, you know,
the art, the music, the books we created. It would
show how creative we were, how much we could express ourselves.
Speaker 1: And they'd probably be fascinated by our technology too, right,
all the amazing things we've done with science and engineering.
Speaker 2: Oh definitely. But I think they'd also find signs of
our struggles, our conflicts, the environmental problems we're dealing with.
They'd see that our story, like all stories, is complicated.
It's got good and bad parts.
Speaker 1: It shows that we're not perfect, but we can lear
learn and we can change.
Speaker 2: And that's probably the most important lesson of all the
Soilurian hypothesis reminds us that civilization is a process. It's
constantly evolving, adapting, and we're still in the middle of
that journey and we have the power to shape where
it goes.
Speaker 1: That's a message of both hope and responsibility, and I
think it's a great place to end our deep dive today.
Thanks for joining us on this amazing exploration of the
Sorier Lurian hypothesis. We'll beome back next time to explore
another mystery of the universe. But until then, keep asking questions,
keep learning, and keep imagining all the possibilities