Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What's going to happen? What help? Welcome back to the
Speaker 2: Occult Rejects Today we're joined by Marcello Kroll and Adam Smith,
Speaker 2: the creative team behind Initiates Oracle, a forthcoming forty card
Speaker 2: oracle deck with one hundred and twenty eight page guidebook
Speaker 2: from Weiser Books, scheduled for release on May fourth, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six. Marcella Kroll is an artist, mystic, spiritual teacher,
Speaker 2: and deck creator whose work bridges divination, contemporary art, and
Speaker 2: lived spiritual practice. Her site describes more than twenty five
Speaker 2: years of work as a psychic medium, a cult practitioner,
Speaker 2: and spiritual counselor, and she's known for decks and books
Speaker 2: including Sacred Symbols, Oracle, The Dreamer's Taro, Healing, the Liminal,
Speaker 2: and more. Adam Smith is the illustrator behind Initiates Oracle.
Speaker 2: He brings three decades of a cult practice in more
Speaker 2: than fifteen years of tattoo artistry to the project, and
Speaker 2: he's also the creator of the Hidden Veil Taro. What
Speaker 2: makes this deck especially interesting is that the Initiates Oracle
Speaker 2: is presented as an occult, hermetic and Egyptian inspired work.
Speaker 2: In both Marcella's site and the publishers describe it as
Speaker 2: being born out of a journey to Egypt, where the
Speaker 2: author and illustrator took part in the initiations of the Sphinx.
Speaker 2: The deck is framed not just as a divination tool,
Speaker 2: but as a guide to transformation, something meant to translate
Speaker 2: deep esoteric symbols into a practice that can actually be
Speaker 2: used in everyday life by both newer seekers and seasoned practitioners.
Speaker 2: That gives us a lot to dig into today, symbolism, initiation, ritual,
Speaker 2: artistic vision, occult philosophy, and what it means to make
Speaker 2: a deck that is both beautiful and spiritually functional. And
Speaker 2: that's why I'm excited for this conversation because Initiates Oracle
Speaker 2: sounds like they're trying to do something bigger than just
Speaker 2: give people another deck. It sounds like it's trying to
Speaker 2: open a threshold between image and ritual, symbol and experience, ancient,
Speaker 2: current and modern practitioner. So today we're going to get
Speaker 2: into the making of the deck, the initiatory ideas behind it,
Speaker 2: the collaboration between writer and illustrator, and what both of
Speaker 2: our guests believe these symbols can still do to a
Speaker 2: person in the present day. Now, before I introduce the
Speaker 2: rest of the panel and the guest, I do have
Speaker 2: an announcement I'd like to make. We do have the
Speaker 2: website a Cult Research Institute dot org. If you're interested
Speaker 2: in reading a lot, that site is for you. And
Speaker 2: we also have T shirts available on the website as well.
Speaker 2: There's two different styles that you can choose from. And
Speaker 2: that's enough out of me, and let me introduce the
Speaker 2: rest of the panel. Robbie, please, sir, let everybody know
Speaker 2: what's up with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, doom well, doom well. Nick, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3: This is the a topic of interest and it's good
Speaker 3: to meet you both, Adam and Marcella and I am
Speaker 3: our Marx artist and illustrator and I'm big into doing
Speaker 3: symbolic research, color theory, all down the roads of you know,
Speaker 3: these kind of occult esoteric topics and I'm excited to
Speaker 3: see where we can go. If anybody wants to check
Speaker 3: out my stuff, you can go to my link tree,
Speaker 3: which is link tree r Marx and then I'll pull
Speaker 3: up all my website, my Patreon, my podcast, the metamindcast
Speaker 3: and everything else. So but yeah, thanks for having me on, Nick,
Speaker 3: and yeah.
Speaker 2: Of course, please thank you for joining me. Robbie, appreciate
Speaker 2: it whenever you can make it. And Adam sure, please
Speaker 2: let everybody know a little bit about you or anything
Speaker 2: you want to promote, and this and that.
Speaker 1: Well, I was I live in Columbia, South Carolina. I've
Speaker 1: been tattooing for over fifteen years now. Uh yeah, you
Speaker 1: have to excuse me.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I was living and Sabrina actually because she
Speaker 2: showed up.
Speaker 1: You're good, You're good, but uh yeah, I'm not. I'm
Speaker 1: not really used to stepping out into the spotlight and everything.
Speaker 4: You know what.
Speaker 2: I still get nervous doing this, so it's quite over.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, that's that's really about it.
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll get into it a little bit more
Speaker 2: as we go through moreau. Let everybody know what is
Speaker 2: open to you.
Speaker 5: My name is Marcello Kroll. I currently live in Tucson,
Speaker 5: but I am an artist and a occult practitioner. I
Speaker 5: make decks, I write books, I consult on different projects.
Speaker 5: It's pretty awesome. I get to do this for a living.
Speaker 5: I feel like I get to be the person that
Speaker 5: I wish was there for me when I was growing up.
Speaker 5: But you know, yeah, just really exciting to call outborate
Speaker 5: with Adam as a fellow magician. We got to travel
Speaker 5: to Egypt together and do a lot of ritual rights
Speaker 5: in the temples. We did our initiations of the things together,
Speaker 5: and we got paired up to be kind of I
Speaker 5: don't know, Adam, what would you call it.
Speaker 1: We were like the I'd say, like I've always kind
Speaker 1: of referred to it as like the pillars of silence. Yes,
Speaker 1: about the Isis ritual.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we led the call. We led the guard to Fela,
Speaker 5: to Isis's temple at like I don't know, I think
Speaker 5: it was like three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock
Speaker 5: in the morning, in darkness, in silence, you know, to
Speaker 5: be gatekeepers for that particular temple ritual. And yeah, it's
Speaker 5: pretty profound in that way. So yeah, anyway, I just
Speaker 5: I'm always in awe that I get to do this
Speaker 5: work and meet different people from all walks of life
Speaker 5: who get to carry their heart in this path forward.
Speaker 2: So awesome. Well, thank you for making it as well.
Speaker 2: And Sabrina, what is going on?
Speaker 6: How are you always like five a time. It's light.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry like being on time. Also, i'ds so pumped
Speaker 6: to be here because Marcella and I've known each other
Speaker 6: on the internet for like a million years and we've
Speaker 6: never like shared like live moving on the internet. So like,
Speaker 6: I'm so excited to hear and to hear about what
Speaker 6: you guys are working on and everything. I feel like
Speaker 6: people this probably already know me. I've got five books out,
Speaker 6: two podcasts, whatever, Google it, Rina Scott, whatever.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah. When I remember, I think even sore
Speaker 2: on your profile. No, when I was looking at her Instagram,
Speaker 2: I think it even mentioned that she was followed by you,
Speaker 2: So I was like, oh, Sabrina might actually find this interesting,
Speaker 2: she might come on this one. Thank you for making it.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, So I guess I do have a
Speaker 2: couple of questions, kind of like you know, once for
Speaker 2: the Goldies, for people just discovering the Initiates oracle, how
Speaker 2: do each of you describe the deck in your own words?
Speaker 2: Maybe Adam, if you want to go first.
Speaker 1: Well, what I would say is that the deck itself really,
Speaker 1: uh really takes the practitioner on the same journey that
Speaker 1: we were on a lot of the artwork in it
Speaker 1: was stuff that was downloaded during the process, and even
Speaker 1: coming back from the trip, it was just like an
Speaker 1: ongoing surge of like imagery and symbols and stuff going on.
Speaker 1: And so we're really kind of just hoping that we're
Speaker 1: able to share all that with anybody that picks up
Speaker 1: this deck, you know, and makes them feel part of
Speaker 1: the journey as well.
Speaker 2: So the at times like this happens to me, well,
Speaker 2: not the like my shit's art, but you know, I'll
Speaker 2: come up with ideas for like thumbnails and shit or
Speaker 2: whatever logos. Is it Like times like I guess you
Speaker 2: were saying, like almost like downloads or it's like you'll
Speaker 2: just get this idea that just pops into your head
Speaker 2: out of nowhere and you have to like try to
Speaker 2: remember it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes I'll do a little voice notes. Sometimes I'll
Speaker 1: do rough sketchings, and especially like you wake up in
Speaker 1: three am in the middle of the night and just
Speaker 1: have this idea and have to get it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that is cool as shit, man,
Speaker 2: That's awesome. That's sometimes what I think. I'm a big
Speaker 2: David Lynch fan, and I think sometimes that's what he
Speaker 2: was talking about, like when you have an idea and
Speaker 2: you lose it, you almost just want to kill yourself
Speaker 2: and die. Like I understand, it's just like the fuck
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get that back because I didn't
Speaker 2: jot it down or whatever. But yeah, it's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what about you, Marcella. I, well, it's interesting.
Speaker 5: So this is going to be my fifth deck, and
Speaker 5: typically with decks, I have three Oracle decks and one
Speaker 5: Tarot deck that I've made. I've done all the artwork
Speaker 5: and the ill illustrations for those decks coming together on
Speaker 5: this project. It was a seed that was planted there,
Speaker 5: and we had been talking about just the different things
Speaker 5: that are out there because Adam has made his own
Speaker 5: self published deck prior to this, and we wanted something
Speaker 5: that felt like, yes, anyone can access it, but for
Speaker 5: the person who wants to take things beyond just the like,
Speaker 5: oh do they like me kind of readings, but someone
Speaker 5: that can actually use it in their magical practice, but
Speaker 5: also for their own growth as a magician, because you know,
Speaker 5: there's so much of the same stuff out there over
Speaker 5: and over and over again, and even I did my
Speaker 5: first retreat this past February, and I used this deck
Speaker 5: to outline my retreat. So it's not just divination in
Speaker 5: the sense of I need to ask a question about
Speaker 5: my life. It's putting into practice, like what things we
Speaker 5: could be working on in layers and applying them, you
Speaker 5: know to maybe everyday situations, but also through ritual. So yeah,
Speaker 5: it just felt very natural. Adam and I clicked from
Speaker 5: the go because we showed up. You know, I don't
Speaker 5: know how many people were there, like twenty eight or something.
Speaker 5: I don't know, definitely a number of people. And I
Speaker 5: mean he's like, oh good, another tattooed face person and
Speaker 5: I'm like, great, yes, finally, But we really just it
Speaker 5: just kept growing the seed of the idea to the
Speaker 5: point and for me creatively, that's how creative ideas come in.
Speaker 5: They kind of roll in and float by, and if
Speaker 5: I don't grab them, kind of like what you're saying,
Speaker 5: I kind of forget about it. But here's the thing.
Speaker 5: I think if an idea, especially a creative one, wants
Speaker 5: to come through, it kind of haunts you a little bit,
Speaker 5: popping up around you like whack the mole until you
Speaker 5: go okay, okay, okay, I can't ignore this anymore. And
Speaker 5: the beauty of doing this deck together because Adam such
Speaker 5: a prolific artist and I love his work. In that way,
Speaker 5: I was able to nerd out on the booklet the
Speaker 5: writing right, Whereas when I've done my other decks, I've
Speaker 5: made them more kind of keywords, jumping off points, like
Speaker 5: things that you're supposed to use your own brain because
Speaker 5: a lot of people want it told to them, and
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, I'm not teaching you to read like me.
Speaker 5: I'm not teaching you to read like mimic someone else.
Speaker 5: I want you to use these things as a jumping
Speaker 5: off point. So they've been very booklets for me in
Speaker 5: the past have been very streamlined, very like I said,
Speaker 5: keywords or suggestions, whereas this deck we really get to
Speaker 5: look at the symbolism, particularly the magical symbolism, and dive
Speaker 5: deeper into maybe some stories around some of the symbolism
Speaker 5: that you haven't heard before.
Speaker 2: That was awesome, Thank you you kind of answered. I
Speaker 2: had another question. I was going to say, what made
Speaker 2: you choose Adam, but kind of answered to anythink.
Speaker 5: Like it was a kindred connection, like kind of right
Speaker 5: off the bat, we kept getting paired up, like not intentionally,
Speaker 5: but like like the facilitators, just like when we would
Speaker 5: do certain rituals, like we would pair up in groups
Speaker 5: or like and are just it was easy for us
Speaker 5: to like collaborate collaborations.
Speaker 2: Hardah, Yeah, one thing I did want to ask, also,
Speaker 2: why the word initiate? What does initiation mean to each
Speaker 2: of you? Beyond the cliche version of the term.
Speaker 1: M Adam, I was hoping you were going to go
Speaker 1: first on that one. H. Initiate can mean to me
Speaker 1: a bunch of different things. Uh, give initiates, the initiations
Speaker 1: that you would go forth through with organizations and groups
Speaker 1: you have, that you would go through on more astral
Speaker 1: spiritual levels. And yeah, so it's it's almost as if
Speaker 1: shedding skin, you know, almost like this this rebirth, after
Speaker 1: you've gone through it to where you're kind of I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's very real hard to explain. That's
Speaker 1: how it is a lot with even creating the images
Speaker 1: that I do withdrawing, it's always real hard to kind
Speaker 1: of go into the process of it. But like it's
Speaker 1: it's all up there mentally, you know, it's just hard
Speaker 1: forming it into words.
Speaker 2: But yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think of it as kind of there's a
Speaker 5: next level of intension with that because we're not just trying.
Speaker 5: It's like, oh, we're not just doing this weekend thing.
Speaker 5: I'm going to pull out my deck or weekend magic.
Speaker 5: There's nothing wrong with that stuff. I love kitchen witchery,
Speaker 5: I love easy access magic. But also there's something to
Speaker 5: be said about being more ceremonial, intentional, knowing that you're
Speaker 5: diving into a process that might take you on a
Speaker 5: journey and it might be three days, it might be
Speaker 5: three months, you don't know, And I want people to
Speaker 5: understand that it's like the Abramelum, you know, rituals, like
Speaker 5: it's something that it's you don't know, but you're committing regardless,
Speaker 5: and there's a sense of respect and seriousness to them,
Speaker 5: you know, because I think a lot of stuff is
Speaker 5: sold to us, you know, particularly with you know, the
Speaker 5: popularity of magic and witchcraft. You know, on a more
Speaker 5: commercial level, it's like how quick and fast can I
Speaker 5: do this? How convenient? Magic initiations not convenient. It's uncomfortable,
Speaker 5: you know, and it's euphoric, but it's you don't get
Speaker 5: one without the other. And I think the process with
Speaker 5: this too is to kind of say like this isn't
Speaker 5: just like, oh my gosh, I'm going to bring this
Speaker 5: to you know, Bev's baby shower deck, Like I mean,
Speaker 5: that's fine if you want to, but like it's not
Speaker 5: a lighthearted thing, like you're not going to get those
Speaker 5: quick fixed answers. Sometimes it might help you if you
Speaker 5: have your own clarity, it might bring you that, But
Speaker 5: I just think there's layers and there's more than again,
Speaker 5: like it's right of passage at least for me anyway,
Speaker 5: That's the way I relate to it.
Speaker 2: When I was in the OTO, there was somebody that
Speaker 2: I did like all my initiations with, and I think
Speaker 2: like after it was like after the first the second one,
Speaker 2: after like the initiation was over and everybody's like hanging
Speaker 2: out in the temple. I remember even though my friend
Speaker 2: was like, you know, I guess like saying like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, why do because there's a certain amount of
Speaker 2: time you had to wait between them, and he was like,
Speaker 2: you know, I guess bitching or just not bitching, but
Speaker 2: was like, why can't we just keep on going and
Speaker 2: you know doing well, like weh blah blah blah, And
Speaker 2: they were like you kind of like need to like
Speaker 2: kind of process or kind of understand what the hell
Speaker 2: you just went through do Like they're like you the
Speaker 2: whole point, you know, and it is a kind of
Speaker 2: a journey, I guess in a sense.
Speaker 5: Yeah, integration is a huge part. We can't just keep going,
Speaker 5: going going. You never retain what you've just processed, or
Speaker 5: you can throw yourself into psychosis. Like people don't understand
Speaker 5: that part of it. And you know, Adam, you've done
Speaker 5: initiations right in different orders and things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, done a few in the OTO as well.
Speaker 2: Oh nice, okay, all right cool?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, and yeah even with pathwork in itself,
Speaker 1: with Kabbala, you go through a whole series of initiations.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm both here in the regular world and
Speaker 1: the astral.
Speaker 2: If anything I would like for me, I even look
Speaker 2: back now, it's like I wish I would have. I guess,
Speaker 2: like you can't redo them. I mean you could always go,
Speaker 2: like if I did my first, I could always go
Speaker 2: to somebody who's and watch them do their first. I
Speaker 2: never did that. I regret that now because during like
Speaker 2: again like even processing what's going on, I was like
Speaker 2: when you're in that initiation for me, I'm so focused
Speaker 2: about like what's coming next, though, like what's in front
Speaker 2: of me or what's going on, that I never even
Speaker 2: really took the time to look around the lodge and
Speaker 2: look at all the shit that's even set up. Why
Speaker 2: is that there? Why is this there? Why is that
Speaker 2: all of a sudden? Right, I'm sure there's a reason
Speaker 2: for it, but it's just like I never even you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I look back and I'm like, damn,
Speaker 2: I wish I would have like paid attention a little
Speaker 2: bit more before I left. But no, I definitely understand
Speaker 2: the whole initiatory thing is a very not something to
Speaker 2: be rushed, in my opinion, Did I, Robbie or Sabrina,
Speaker 2: did you have anything before? I keep going, Well, I'll remember,
Speaker 2: I swear I'll remember so well.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, in regard to creating these decks, right,
Speaker 3: I have I created a like a mystic kind of
Speaker 3: a cult playing card deck, and uh spent you know
Speaker 3: a good amount of time kind of you you have
Speaker 3: the the concept kind of coming into you and kind
Speaker 3: of you know, congealing and coming into itself. And then
Speaker 3: it's the process of taking this this idea and turning
Speaker 3: it into reality, and then you have to deal with,
Speaker 3: you know, the reproduction as far as the printing process
Speaker 3: and like all the manufacturing and getting it in so
Speaker 3: that you can actually get it out into the world
Speaker 3: and get that idea kind of moving around. Like it's
Speaker 3: a as far as process in in the work of
Speaker 3: creating the idea, do you think it's like is it
Speaker 3: in the ethos or is it something that you formulate?
Speaker 3: How do you kind of what what kind of inspiration
Speaker 3: kind of pushes you?
Speaker 5: Hmm, I think there's a few things. What do you think, Adam.
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say, as far as creating the
Speaker 1: images with drawing, I'm strictly digital, like I do all
Speaker 1: my stuff with pro Create. I used to do on
Speaker 1: physical paper, but I just wasted so much much material
Speaker 1: always felt guilty about it. So a lot of times
Speaker 1: I just sit down and I just start sketching, and
Speaker 1: I don't even know where the finished product is going
Speaker 1: to go. And then sometimes even like getting far out
Speaker 1: there with all that line work done and all the
Speaker 1: shading and then starting to add the colors, stuff just
Speaker 1: doesn't go very well, and then I have to go
Speaker 1: back and redesign it. So the way that I create it.
Speaker 1: It's it's probably not the best of ways, you know,
Speaker 1: because I would think sitting there and kind of laying
Speaker 1: out the idea first would probably be the best concept.
Speaker 1: But I always like just going along for the journey,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and it is really a journey. I mean
Speaker 3: when you when you're an dissipating with these muse energies,
Speaker 3: you kind of just let it, like you're kind of
Speaker 3: just a watching the process as it is.
Speaker 1: It is. It's almost the same as like when you're
Speaker 1: doing tattoos and you're like taking it from the stencil
Speaker 1: and putting it on the flesh and then you watch
Speaker 1: it come to life on the body.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: It's just this really cool process that unfolds.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, now go ahead, Sabrina, what were you
Speaker 3: going to say?
Speaker 6: I was kind of gonna askthing similar more around creative
Speaker 6: process kind of from start to end, especially a collaborative deck,
Speaker 6: like as a writer and artist myself, like I'm kind
Speaker 6: of like, oh my god, I don't know if I
Speaker 6: could collab with another artist, I think my brain would explode.
Speaker 6: But I just looked up the deck looks stunning, and
Speaker 6: so I would love to hear about that creation process
Speaker 6: from like original idea to how did you sort out
Speaker 6: what each of the cards is going to be the
Speaker 6: structure of it? And then the sketching process, Like I'm curious,
Speaker 6: did the art come first? Did the writing come first?
Speaker 6: Like I just want to hear that whole process. It's
Speaker 6: so different for everyone. I would love to hear about that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you for asking. It's a great thing to
Speaker 5: noodle on. I like, because I am notorious for just
Speaker 5: doing everything myself. Maybe I don't work well with other
Speaker 5: people like collaboratively or it's very rare, you know, it
Speaker 5: takes a very special you know connection to be able
Speaker 5: to do that or in just artistically creatively and being
Speaker 5: in the same like speed, you know, because I get
Speaker 5: impatient or I get in his zone or I'm not
Speaker 5: on his own, and so there's that difference, particularly for me.
Speaker 5: It was the process kind of took a while, but
Speaker 5: like not not forever. I think the publishing process has
Speaker 5: taken a lot longer. But initially Adam had a lot
Speaker 5: of the imagery first, but he would send me things
Speaker 5: and I'm really good with war like coming up with
Speaker 5: names for things. I think, like that's one of my
Speaker 5: like One of my jokes is like I just want
Speaker 5: to name makeup colors like nail polish, you know, like
Speaker 5: I like coming up with names and names for people.
Speaker 5: So I started coming up with the list of titles,
Speaker 5: you know, like card titles, right, But then the images
Speaker 5: would lend to those titles themselves too the more we got,
Speaker 5: So it was kind of this like back and forth
Speaker 5: that went on, but we did get a lot of
Speaker 5: the wach McCall it the I got a lot of
Speaker 5: the imagery from Adam before I began my full on
Speaker 5: writing because I wanted to include not just hey, this
Speaker 5: is what this means, but I wanted to include the
Speaker 5: origin of the different imagery and connect on that. The colors,
Speaker 5: the symbol is, like everything is just you know, part
Speaker 5: of the process. So I did say it was pretty
Speaker 5: easy working with Adam and I've recently worked on collaborations
Speaker 5: that didn't go anywhere because we couldn't get on the
Speaker 5: same page. Where there was more fluidity with Adam and I.
Speaker 5: But I also think it's because we were on that
Speaker 5: initiation path at the same time, so we both had
Speaker 5: an understanding of the feel and the energy, like even
Speaker 5: though we live far away from each other. Right, Adam
Speaker 5: lives in South Carolina. I was living in La Now
Speaker 5: I live in Tucson, Arizona the last two years, so
Speaker 5: you know, doing things also at a distance, getting on FaceTime,
Speaker 5: getting on phone, you know, it was just kind of
Speaker 5: easier to do it that way.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I could see that too. It's the whole
Speaker 2: process of like getting together and collaborating is like, Wellpito,
Speaker 2: if you had to jump on zoom, it's a lot
Speaker 2: easier than possibly getting in your car deciding where you're
Speaker 2: going to go. I could even see all that just
Speaker 2: making it a little bit easier too, depending on what
Speaker 2: type of person you want. Sometimes I for any reason
Speaker 2: to just tell myself and that to do something.
Speaker 5: So I think it requires a lot of trust in
Speaker 5: each other though too. I mean that's the thing collaborating,
Speaker 5: You're trusting the whole process, you know, with each other.
Speaker 5: And I think the only time, the times, the reason
Speaker 5: why I've worked so hard for so long on my
Speaker 5: own was because I didn't have a lot of trust
Speaker 5: or faith that other people were going to follow through,
Speaker 5: or because there was no proven track record of it.
Speaker 5: And I'm like, well, if it's going to get done,
Speaker 5: it's going to get done. I self published for nine years,
Speaker 5: you know as well, So it's like switching into a
Speaker 5: gear of having to collaborate with publishers. That's also a
Speaker 5: learning curve experience and such a different process. I mean, Sabrina,
Speaker 5: you make so many beautiful things, and I've been doing
Speaker 5: this for so long as well, you know, Like I
Speaker 5: think you understand that, Like you're very prolific, right, So,
Speaker 5: like having to get things on board and having to
Speaker 5: trust someone else to kind of come in it can
Speaker 5: be daunting for sure.
Speaker 6: Sometimes they don't get it as well, like the powers
Speaker 6: that be by which I mean like publishers or institutions,
Speaker 6: sometimes they just don't get it. So like there are
Speaker 6: some of those clubs that I've had where I was
Speaker 6: just like all right, bye, I think you probably know
Speaker 6: what I'm talking about. But quick question for reasons you
Speaker 6: do have so many other decks out, Like for those
Speaker 6: decks that you did solo, did the art also come first?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 5: Okay? So Sacred Symbols, which is like my the thing
Speaker 5: that kind of started at all came to me. I
Speaker 5: mean I was in the middle of a mental health crisis,
Speaker 5: but it was twenty twelve and I was like living
Speaker 5: in milwauke On in a like eighteen acres of land
Speaker 5: in New Mexico. I had run away and I was
Speaker 5: having a mental breakdown, and I wrote the names down first,
Speaker 5: and then the sketches and then putting it together right
Speaker 5: And still even then, I I did all of the
Speaker 5: editing and the graphic design on an iPhone three, Like
Speaker 5: I didn't have skills for that, you know, and I
Speaker 5: just you know, it's like things just started to the
Speaker 5: more I learned, the more I learned how to make
Speaker 5: it happen, and but also trusting in my you know,
Speaker 5: my like connection to my whatever guidance and all that stuff, like, hey, like,
Speaker 5: if this is supposed to happen, it's just going to
Speaker 5: keep happening. And if it's not, take it away. That's
Speaker 5: how I deal with a lot of stuff right now,
Speaker 5: you know, is even with the collaborations falling apart, I'm like,
Speaker 5: if this is something my ancestors would have flipped this table,
Speaker 5: take it away. Trust And I trust that. I trust that,
Speaker 5: and you know, so it's a it's a wild ride,
Speaker 5: I mean, and just no one taught me how to
Speaker 5: do this, and I think you have that understanding as well,
Speaker 5: like and putting out zines and books and being asked
Speaker 5: to consult on things and getting kind of like a
Speaker 5: bomb deal because I didn't know better. You know, that's
Speaker 5: been an interesting journey. But now you know, you learn,
Speaker 5: You learn, you learn to ask for more, you learn
Speaker 5: to take better care of the work that you're stewarding
Speaker 5: into into being in the physical.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Absolutely, And publishing is so slow. But how long
Speaker 6: did it take you guys from beginning to meet.
Speaker 5: Its good so slow?
Speaker 6: From the publishing being slow, Like was it like a
Speaker 6: year you guys were doing this project to the other
Speaker 6: two years? How long did it take you guys?
Speaker 5: We think, Adam, it took us. Like we finished, we
Speaker 5: came back. When did we come back? We went to
Speaker 5: Egypt in December of twenty twenty two.
Speaker 6: Like I remember you posting those pictures.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we finished the writing, like I finished the
Speaker 5: writing in the summer of twenty twenty four. But that's
Speaker 5: because when I came back from Egypt, I wrote a book.
Speaker 5: I wrote a book when I came back, like my
Speaker 5: Healing the Liminal Book. I wrote that upon arriving back,
Speaker 5: and then I was like, okay, I can work on
Speaker 5: this once that happens. But then I moved. So twenty
Speaker 5: twenty four the summer, we finished everything. But it's now,
Speaker 5: you know, twenty twenty it's not it's it's yeah. It
Speaker 5: took probably like about a year or so to complete
Speaker 5: it for our end. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Oh, let's see.
Speaker 5: M I'm just looking at the comment.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, did you see when somebody has to see
Speaker 2: examples of the work.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's what I'm Yeah.
Speaker 2: Reason, I was like, I think she just caughte that comment.
Speaker 2: That's why. It's okay, It's okay, I got it. Can
Speaker 2: I go find images real quick?
Speaker 5: I know. Well, I pulled a card actually for today
Speaker 5: from our back from this, and I pulled leadership, Yeah,
Speaker 5: which I'm really excited about. I mean, what I love
Speaker 5: about this card. It's Isis, right or Osset is her
Speaker 5: Egyptian name. A lot of people think of Isis and
Speaker 5: they think of the story of her, you know, retrieving
Speaker 5: these dismembered parts of her husband of Osiris of Ozier.
Speaker 5: But one of my favorite stories about Isis is the
Speaker 5: way she was able to, you know, be cunning. And
Speaker 5: she's the leadership card because she was able to trick
Speaker 5: Raw the sun god. She created a serpent to bite him,
Speaker 5: and she's like, you know, I'll help you, but you know,
Speaker 5: tell me your secret name. And that is how she became,
Speaker 5: you know, her leadership, her ability to connect with magic,
Speaker 5: all of those things. You know, there's just so many
Speaker 5: stories that are hidden within, you know. And that was
Speaker 5: one of the things too with us on our trip,
Speaker 5: learning the Nataru from the inside out, which is, you know,
Speaker 5: the Egyptian pantheon, and learning their true names. It's it's
Speaker 5: really quite It's been a real journey to work with
Speaker 5: each card too, as I got the imagery and writing
Speaker 5: about them and seeing what sparked intuitively for me, not
Speaker 5: just the okay, this is the you know, this is
Speaker 5: the emerald tablet, this is this It's like, no, what
Speaker 5: feelings got evoked? And that was really Adam's artwork really
Speaker 5: evokes a lot of feelings.
Speaker 2: Yes, one thing I did want to ask, what point
Speaker 2: did you know that Dex's cool language would be harmonic
Speaker 2: and Egyptian inspired rather than broadly occult. I mean, was
Speaker 2: it because right away because of the retreat kind or
Speaker 2: whatever you guys want to Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think because of the path that we traveled
Speaker 5: and we went with twenty two Teachings, which is a
Speaker 5: cult hermetic school in Los Angele based out of Los Angeles,
Speaker 5: and Academy of Oracle Arts, which are based out of
Speaker 5: Nevada City. But knowing specifically the group we were going
Speaker 5: with and those practices, it just we knew that that
Speaker 5: would be the theme and the direction. So I'm like,
Speaker 5: I'm just like, this is the back. I also just
Speaker 5: am really excited. They gave us a pretty awesome you
Speaker 5: don't really see this, but the booklet is full color nice,
Speaker 5: which is rare and publishing they don't always do that.
Speaker 5: So just really excited about the way it turned out.
Speaker 5: Like feeling it in your hands also is another trippy
Speaker 5: thing when you make something to feel it tangibly. Yeah,
Speaker 5: like the the texture.
Speaker 1: I absolutely love the gold foil that they did on
Speaker 1: their as well. Yeah, really goes well with the Matt Black.
Speaker 5: Mine's a little worn because I've been been using this
Speaker 5: as like the demo deck I got a while back
Speaker 5: when they sent us like, hey check it out, so.
Speaker 2: And who and who was that? That's from Wiser? Yes, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they actually they sent me some decks like a month
Speaker 2: or two ago from people I had on and they
Speaker 2: had to the gold foil around them. Okay, and the
Speaker 2: cards are the very good quality I thought, so I'm
Speaker 2: assuming yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: They do a good job. This is my first time
Speaker 5: working with them. I really enjoyed working with them. They're
Speaker 5: you know, they're a smaller publisher, which I don't think
Speaker 5: a lot of people know, but they've been around for
Speaker 5: a really long time. I also love that they're like
Speaker 5: New England based. I mean, they remind me of childhood,
Speaker 5: like going to like the little Wickens stores when I
Speaker 5: was growing up, because there wasn't really there was only
Speaker 5: a few like magic Spots in the nineties, you know,
Speaker 5: like early nineties. You're going into some really interesting places.
Speaker 5: But they Yeah, so it's been really nice working with
Speaker 5: them because it feels more hands on nice.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. They seem really nice with me dealing with them,
Speaker 2: like after the show email and be like, oh, just
Speaker 2: let you know I had my solo crawl on if
Speaker 2: you want to send me a free day.
Speaker 5: They share, they shared the things, so maybe the you know,
Speaker 5: I can definitely nice.
Speaker 2: No, I'm going to remind them though I've done that
Speaker 2: to him before. By the way, I just found out
Speaker 2: this person published through wives and they're like, yeah, we'll
Speaker 2: send you the book.
Speaker 5: Yeah oh man.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I'm so cheesy.
Speaker 5: No, I love it. I love it your that's your aries.
Speaker 2: Right, You're like out like you sent me the books
Speaker 2: every time I have them on Can I get them
Speaker 2: a little one whatever? Yeah?
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Uh what was there any was there any images or
Speaker 2: cult symbols that was like already like you knew that
Speaker 2: this was going to have to be used when you
Speaker 2: had this idea.
Speaker 1: Adam, uh not really like free planned. Just as the
Speaker 1: cards started like being created and laying out, then certain
Speaker 1: symbols just kind of seemed like it went with that
Speaker 1: particular card.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean there's definitely certain symbols that I was excited
Speaker 5: to see in form that I didn't anticipate. I was
Speaker 5: trying to find, like.
Speaker 2: Where is it.
Speaker 5: It's like the lion eating the sun. There's just but
Speaker 5: there's definitely here. It is fortitude. Yeah. I was excited
Speaker 5: to see that because I wasn't I guess I wasn't
Speaker 5: expecting it, but that, and you know, I love like
Speaker 5: there's just such a nod to some of these like
Speaker 5: their their own characters. You know, we have ta Hooti
Speaker 5: we have thought to Hoodi here with like his two
Speaker 5: forms with the emerald tablet, you know. Yeah, and then
Speaker 5: there's like classic things right like we have with Vanishing, right,
Speaker 5: we start to see more of the classic kind of
Speaker 5: idea of her meticism and Kabbala and you know, just
Speaker 5: Adam's influence with that. But certain images to take me
Speaker 5: right back to some of the rituals like this literally
Speaker 5: the ritual card with hathor but with the systrum because
Speaker 5: when we were there, Yeah, we did a system ritual
Speaker 5: almost Zara, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I tried to make it at Hathorpe for a while.
Speaker 2: Were you do.
Speaker 5: You have a picture of it your you have your
Speaker 5: own system that you know?
Speaker 2: I started? I never never feel yeah, but I was, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was big. Yeah, she has that in a mirror
Speaker 2: she's known for, which I find interesting because that's basically
Speaker 2: sight and sound, you know, just suck it, you know,
Speaker 2: into it. That deep but very interesting. Yeah, I'm a
Speaker 2: big fan of Hathel actually.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Dendaro was incredible also just because of the layers
Speaker 5: of the temple, Like there's parts where you go underground
Speaker 5: and that's where I think was it on ancient aliens?
Speaker 5: Do you remember, Adam, there's there's like this tunnel under
Speaker 5: the temple, so you have to crawl down and you
Speaker 5: end up underground and there's you know, hieroglyphics and stuff,
Speaker 5: but there is this depiction of a battery where there
Speaker 5: you know what I'm talking about, and there's these giant
Speaker 5: figures holding it up and then like smaller people yes,
Speaker 5: and there's such a like they're like who made this?
Speaker 5: You know? I think the thing that was so fascinating
Speaker 5: to me was you could touch things, most things you
Speaker 5: could touch and obviously being respectful, obviously being mindful. I
Speaker 5: feel like because there was such an understanding of the
Speaker 5: reverence of these places, we were able to go into
Speaker 5: places privately a lot which doesn't normally happen, and you know,
Speaker 5: we were able to do things that most people don't
Speaker 5: get to do. And I think it was simply because
Speaker 5: we came with we you know, working with intention, respect
Speaker 5: and offerings not just offerings of hey, let's pay you money,
Speaker 5: but like offerings of prayers, offerings of respect, offerings of
Speaker 5: ourselves as vessels. And that felt really important.
Speaker 2: So that's awesome, that's really cool, that's very wild experience.
Speaker 5: It was, I mean I don't think I fully integrated.
Speaker 5: It took me maybe like a year and a half
Speaker 5: maybe to fully understand what happened.
Speaker 2: Did you uh, did you touch anything?
Speaker 5: Touch anything?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 5: I'm kidding, Yeah, I'm like I was crawling on my hands,
Speaker 5: and I mean there was a part where a lot
Speaker 5: of stuff you can't be if you're claustrophobic, it's not good. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 5: not going to be for you. I mean it can
Speaker 5: be pretty intense, But there's also this part of me
Speaker 5: that's like, yeah, well, when am I ever going to
Speaker 5: get to do this? So just get over it now.
Speaker 2: When you mentioned that it's like kind of claustrophobic, was
Speaker 2: that You're sorry? Like I just might have some questions
Speaker 2: on this? Just made me think of something with the
Speaker 2: Sacred Sacred architecture I've been covering lately. Was it uh
Speaker 2: was it like kind of like was that like something
Speaker 2: that was made after the fact to get to where
Speaker 2: you were going? Or was that like an original thing?
Speaker 2: Like was it made to where you actually have had
Speaker 2: to be crawling to get what you got? Was that
Speaker 2: the kind of an original passage?
Speaker 5: You think it was both? It was both to be honest.
Speaker 5: In some places it was both like there were there's
Speaker 5: like I remember, do you remember the crypt we went
Speaker 5: into Adam when we had to go down the spiral staircase.
Speaker 1: Yes, that was like fifty down below.
Speaker 5: Down, But like that was created, man made right to
Speaker 5: get in there, Like that wasn't something that existed, but
Speaker 5: and we all each wanted a time like laid in
Speaker 5: this dead physician's crypt. But yeah, that was created to
Speaker 5: get in there, but it didn't exist prior. But certain
Speaker 5: things like getting up to I don't know, like the
Speaker 5: king getting up to the King's chamber and the Great Pyramid. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's very narrow. It's not meant. People weren't meant to
Speaker 5: climb up in there, right, but they've constructed kind of
Speaker 5: like these rickety they're not even like there there's supposed
Speaker 5: to be handrails, but they're just so shaky and you're
Speaker 5: hunched over, you know, just you can't look up, you
Speaker 5: can't look down, you're going to get stuff in your eyes.
Speaker 5: But we had some wild time, like we did the
Speaker 5: l We were doing the lb RP a lot of places,
Speaker 5: but like doing the lb r P at the top
Speaker 5: of the pyramid.
Speaker 2: It you mar you do the LBRP yourself too, Yes,
Speaker 2: then we do. That's pretty cool really. Yeah. Even in
Speaker 2: the oto, there wasn't that all the women did these.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, no, I mean it was pretty standard the
Speaker 5: first Like we we were doing it in many places,
Speaker 5: and I think that there are certain places where it
Speaker 5: felt really amplified.
Speaker 2: That's cool, you.
Speaker 5: Know, but to be to be at the very top
Speaker 5: of the pyramid and then climb all the way down
Speaker 5: and then climb on hands and knees to get to
Speaker 5: the I don't even know what you call it, subterranean
Speaker 5: portion of the Great ParaMed underworld literally going through the
Speaker 5: duot like. Yeah, And but my whole thing with that
Speaker 5: was I wanted to put offerings down at the base
Speaker 5: at the you know, in the pyramid, so you come
Speaker 5: out through like you crawl, you go through, and then
Speaker 5: you come out into an open, more open area. That
Speaker 5: may have been intentional.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See the reason why I asked is when I
Speaker 2: was covering this stuff recently we're recording it. There are
Speaker 2: when you start going from especially in the dark too,
Speaker 2: it's actually wild. There's so many things that like going
Speaker 2: from a small area and then to a bigger area,
Speaker 2: you'll see that kind of happen. I forgot it might
Speaker 2: have been a Karnak or too or something like that,
Speaker 2: certain certain other Egyptian things. I've even noticed it in
Speaker 2: but that when you repeatedly do that, I don't know
Speaker 2: if they knew then, but it starts to actually make
Speaker 2: you focus in a certain part of your brain and
Speaker 2: you certain nerves start kicking in. So I wonder is
Speaker 2: that all done on purpose? Like again, is this a
Speaker 2: whole and an initiatory thing? Going through all that through
Speaker 2: your body?
Speaker 3: All the mystery schools had those where you would be
Speaker 3: confined and then it would open in the cabin, flashing lights,
Speaker 3: all kinds of sensory you know, and you are you
Speaker 3: are affecting the senses for the purpose of, you know,
Speaker 3: rising the self.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean, and every place had some element of that.
Speaker 5: I even think us going in the middle of the
Speaker 5: night affected our senses in that way. When we went
Speaker 5: to Karnak, we went at again, it was like three o'clock,
Speaker 5: four o'clock in the morning, and I remember walking through
Speaker 5: and having the wildest soul retrieval experience, like walking up
Speaker 5: like through there's like different archways, and I swear every
Speaker 5: time we went through the archway like some things would
Speaker 5: come back, and then we ended up in the time
Speaker 5: like in the room with sec Met I think Adam,
Speaker 5: it was you, me and two other people because we
Speaker 5: were going four at a time in the dark like
Speaker 5: to go like make offerings, and it was it was
Speaker 5: very sensory, so quiet but so loud internally, you know, yeah,
Speaker 5: just it's it's and even and then even being on
Speaker 5: the nile. We were on the nile for four days sailing,
Speaker 5: so that was this whole other sensory experience. There's so
Speaker 5: many different things as well.
Speaker 2: Do you even said the pillars and the way you
Speaker 2: walk through them? Uh, even cover that too, that depending
Speaker 2: on how they're cut. I think if they're cut concave
Speaker 2: like around, it starts to create reverberational of them too. Yes,
Speaker 2: So like like that's wild that you even said that
Speaker 2: you feel something every time you're passing them. Well you do.
Speaker 5: Oh no, I was just gonna say. The hieroglyphics to
Speaker 5: the way they're carved. They're not carved exactly at the
Speaker 5: same depth in every place because they calculated the sun
Speaker 5: and depending on the where the sun was at if
Speaker 5: it's too deep or not deep enough, the sun would
Speaker 5: blurt it out. Like so if you're going around in
Speaker 5: certain spaces, you'll notice that the the hieroglyphics are not
Speaker 5: carved at the same depth because of the local based
Speaker 5: on the location, right.
Speaker 3: And the type of mineral, you know, mineral that they're
Speaker 3: using in the different places to conduct different types of
Speaker 3: energies that you that you feel as you move through.
Speaker 3: You know, these very in that you see that worldwide.
Speaker 3: As far as phenomenon with these builders ancient builder structures, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean there were so many things. I mean, we
Speaker 5: walked down was it like was it the oh gosh,
Speaker 5: it's like pathway of the Sphinx. But there's this road
Speaker 5: that goes from the Temple of Moot to Luxor and
Speaker 5: basically all of the museums all over the world that
Speaker 5: have sphinxes and their collection basically taken them from this place.
Speaker 5: It's kind of like okay, like but at one point
Speaker 5: there was all sphinxes down the whole way, and they
Speaker 5: actually did a New Year's celebration a few years ago
Speaker 5: where they traveled that road and recorded it. But we
Speaker 5: did that road in silence at sunset, and it was
Speaker 5: the most intense thing because then the prayer, the call
Speaker 5: to prayer started as well, because it's a Muslim country,
Speaker 5: so there would be these moments where you're walking and
Speaker 5: then the call to prayer would start and they're in
Speaker 5: silence and everything's reverberating, and you're around these like you know,
Speaker 5: things just feel different there.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, I covered all that like a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks ago. Man, I'm so jealous you went through that shit.
Speaker 5: You got to go.
Speaker 2: I was even showing like the pathway with all the sphinx.
Speaker 2: That is awesome. You got to walk through the I
Speaker 2: thought that shit looked so fucking cool when I was
Speaker 2: looking at it.
Speaker 5: On one you gotta go.
Speaker 2: And Egyptians on my Egypt on my book and listen, Yeah, what.
Speaker 6: Each of you guys want to go and like do
Speaker 6: this whole thing. It's like it's clearly it's a big undertaking.
Speaker 6: It's like you're traveling somewhere. It takes forever, you're gonna
Speaker 6: be there for a while. It's a completely different environment.
Speaker 6: Obviously there's a spiritual benefit to it, it's still kind
Speaker 6: of a big undertaking. So I'm curious that you guys
Speaker 6: could both speak to what was the inspiration in terms
Speaker 6: of wanting to go, why then, and all of that
Speaker 6: kind of stuff that led up to that decision to go.
Speaker 1: Adam, I mean, yeah, I just kind of try to
Speaker 1: pay attention to what crosses my path. Egypt had been
Speaker 1: on my radar for a few years prior to that,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden dropped like, Hey, we're
Speaker 1: going to take a trip to Egypt, if anybody wants
Speaker 1: to go, So I instantly messaged her and started talking
Speaker 1: to her about it. It was a It's definitely like
Speaker 1: I didn't really know what to expect out of it
Speaker 1: because I had not met any single person on that trip,
Speaker 1: and person very spoke to anybody. Flew eighteen hours to
Speaker 1: get there, So it was definitely a lot of with
Speaker 1: me overcoming a lot of my fears and anxieties and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and then being able to lock up
Speaker 1: with a wonderful group and so.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and it's like, you know, we can romanticize
Speaker 5: the trip all day long, but you know, there's also
Speaker 5: there's things that come with that, you know, type of
Speaker 5: travel and making sure you're traveling with the right people
Speaker 5: as well. You know, I've been obsessed with Egypt since
Speaker 5: I was a little girl, like hammels were my favorite animal.
Speaker 5: When I was little, everybody thought I was WEIRDO. I
Speaker 5: used to make little Egyptian scenes in shoe boxes, like
Speaker 5: living in Rhode Island, you know where? What? Like why
Speaker 5: would I know about this? You know? And always had
Speaker 5: a connection. My first tattoo is Isis. When I was eighteen,
Speaker 5: I asked her to be my mother. And there's just
Speaker 5: a lot of there's always been a strong, strong poll
Speaker 5: and connection. And I taught with twenty two Teachings, which
Speaker 5: is Na High School, as a guest teacher, multiple times,
Speaker 5: and I had done readings out of there, and I'd
Speaker 5: always had it on my list as a bucket list trip,
Speaker 5: but I honestly didn't think I would get there until
Speaker 5: maybe if I ever got there, maybe my sixties or seventies.
Speaker 5: And then, you know, circumstance just happened to align. My
Speaker 5: grandmother had passed, and I just my life as kind
Speaker 5: of person that I felt very tethered to, like wasn't
Speaker 5: here anymore. And then this that same weak Naha had
Speaker 5: put out that she was kind of curating this trip,
Speaker 5: and I just felt like I gotta go do this.
Speaker 5: I gotta do it now. You know, sometimes you deal
Speaker 5: with loss and you deal with it in different ways.
Speaker 5: You're like, you know what, like life's long and short,
Speaker 5: so let's figure it out. And it just aligned and
Speaker 5: you know, and she was like, do you want to
Speaker 5: teach on this trip as well? It's like teach in Egypt? Absolutely,
Speaker 5: like because we all got to bring our own kind
Speaker 5: of offerings. I was able to teach my timeline jumping
Speaker 5: meditation on the Nile twice, which was insane, but you
Speaker 5: don't say no to opportunities like that, and so it
Speaker 5: was really, Yeah, it was something that I'm when I
Speaker 5: when we were flying in, I absolutely felt like a
Speaker 5: sense of coming home in a way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Can I ask what was the hardest part about the
Speaker 6: trip for both of you?
Speaker 1: I would say like just the beginning of it, because
Speaker 1: as soon as I got there, everybody just kind of
Speaker 1: felt right together.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: I was thinking earlier about you were talking about the
Speaker 1: different rituals and stuff. Do you remember the very first
Speaker 1: one was at Osarius's temple down below, and the two
Speaker 1: people that were wandering around got stuck in the room
Speaker 1: with us and just jumped right into the ritual and
Speaker 1: just started participating with us. It was a mother and daughter.
Speaker 1: It was so beautiful. But yeah, mine was because I
Speaker 1: was going to be traveling alone. I was going to
Speaker 1: be joining a group of people I've never met in
Speaker 1: my whole life. It was a lot of money to
Speaker 1: get there. I was going to be there for fourteen days.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what if you get there
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you absolutely hate everybody that
Speaker 1: you're like, or not hate, but just not click with them,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm like four fourteen days and not
Speaker 1: being able to get in my car and just drive
Speaker 1: home because I'm done with it. It's a big thing
Speaker 1: to kind of overcome, you know.
Speaker 5: I think it was fourteen days.
Speaker 1: Adam, Well, I think the trip itself was like, wasn't
Speaker 1: there like fourteen? The journey was fourteen, but then the
Speaker 1: flight like a cole days. Yeah, but yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a wonderful experience and I'm grateful that I had an
Speaker 1: opportunity to go. Also, Marcella prepped us prior by doing
Speaker 1: a past life Egyptian meditation, which was really really insightful
Speaker 1: and kind of made it where you kind of flick
Speaker 1: you to saying like as soon as you landed there,
Speaker 1: you felt like you were supposed to be there, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we did a lot of prep work and I
Speaker 5: think that also helped. You know, we met with our
Speaker 5: one of our Egyptian tour guides, Machmu Kuder, who's amazing,
Speaker 5: who's a scholar, he teaches many classes, but he did
Speaker 5: a hieroglyphics class with us all, you know, a few
Speaker 5: months prior online and he was like our main tour
Speaker 5: guide and it was his boats that we were on
Speaker 5: as well. We also did a Netaru class with isis
Speaker 5: injury from twenty two. I'm sorry, Academy of Oracle Arts.
Speaker 5: I think the challenging thing for me because at that
Speaker 5: time too was I had actually I had to get
Speaker 5: on beta blockers because I'm never like, I have immense
Speaker 5: anxiety and a lot of people don't realize that I'm
Speaker 5: also autistic. I have a lot of kind of things.
Speaker 5: But I was like, I got to overcome, like get
Speaker 5: over a lot of this stuff because this trip is
Speaker 5: big than my shit, essentially, and so there's a lot
Speaker 5: of preparation involved. Actually the physical preparation prior. I actually
Speaker 5: worked with a trainer too, just because at that time
Speaker 5: it was like the best shape I was ever in
Speaker 5: my life, like getting prepped because I knew I didn't
Speaker 5: want to miss anything, you know, so the prep was
Speaker 5: kind of grueling. Being there at times for me energetically
Speaker 5: was a challenge. In certain places, there's a lot of
Speaker 5: aggressive selling. People are constantly trying to you know, be
Speaker 5: like give give you stuff, like make you. It can
Speaker 5: be a little bit daunting. I and that can be
Speaker 5: very overstimulating and frustrating.
Speaker 2: Like people trying to put stuff in your hands already
Speaker 2: and ask.
Speaker 5: Oh, and then they're like, you owe me this money
Speaker 5: they charge you for toilet like literally for everything. You know,
Speaker 5: they're like, give me money you give I'll give you
Speaker 5: a toilet paper. You know. We actually had an experience
Speaker 5: Adam to remember this and the one market we like
Speaker 5: were allowed to go on our own for a little bit,
Speaker 5: but we're supposed to go together and we had gone
Speaker 5: there was like this girl I was with and then
Speaker 5: you know, Adam was with us, but then she was
Speaker 5: taken off all over the place. My biggest issue sometimes
Speaker 5: is just other people, right, So like she took off
Speaker 5: and left, and like I bought a couple of things
Speaker 5: from this vendor and then I walked back and Adam
Speaker 5: and I walked back, but like we're not supposed to
Speaker 5: leave each other. This guy came running out at me
Speaker 5: and started yelling at me, saying I didn't pay him fully,
Speaker 5: and I know, damn well I did, and he was trying,
Speaker 5: and he was trying, and he was trying to be
Speaker 5: scary and as a woman, and you know, like in
Speaker 5: that country and like not knowing the language. I barely
Speaker 5: I know a few words, but that was it. Fortunately,
Speaker 5: one of our other guides he came out from behind
Speaker 5: a pole and he was like starts yelling at him,
Speaker 5: and then the guy just started going, oh, oh, forgive me, madam,
Speaker 5: please forgive me, Please forgive me. And I was like,
Speaker 5: you're forgiven. It's cool, Like it's good, we're good. I
Speaker 5: paid you go and he started backing away and then
Speaker 5: he like turned around and then he turned around again
Speaker 5: and it was like, madam, please forgive me. So I
Speaker 5: was like, Khalid, what did you say to him? He goes,
Speaker 5: I told him you were a witch and you're going
Speaker 5: to curse him. I was like, oh god, but I
Speaker 5: love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: It was like it was it was pretty intense, and
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, okay, I'm a witch.
Speaker 4: Yeah you know like uh, but you know, so it
Speaker 4: can be daunting on you if you have a lot
Speaker 4: of you know, you got to be with people who
Speaker 4: are strong. You got to be with people meaning mentally,
Speaker 4: emotionally you can stand up for yourself. It's you know,
Speaker 4: there's there's those aspects where it can be grueling. Also
Speaker 4: Cairo for me was hard to be and a lot
Speaker 4: of the time, uh because you know, everyone.
Speaker 5: Like they're burning trash, they're smoking cigarettes, There's cars, trucks, animals,
Speaker 5: people everywhere. You're just like I had a migraine, you know,
Speaker 5: at like one point that took me out for a
Speaker 5: full day and it was the only time I missed anything.
Speaker 5: But they were going to a museum and I was like,
Speaker 5: it's fine, I don't I just I need to be
Speaker 5: able to get to the sites. I'll miss the museum.
Speaker 5: But you know, and you gotta be careful with what
Speaker 5: you're consuming, making sure you're taking like you know, the
Speaker 5: right enzymes and things like that, and Kate, you know,
Speaker 5: not brushing your teeth with the water like you know,
Speaker 5: like things like that that you have to be mindful of.
Speaker 5: Also just be respectful, you know. I didn't find it
Speaker 5: hard to be respectful, like you know, I covered my
Speaker 5: head and I you know, you covered my shoulders, my
Speaker 5: knees like things like that. They're not anti like tattoos
Speaker 5: or anything like that, but it's just modesty. And there
Speaker 5: are some places obviously where it's more touristy and there's
Speaker 5: all kinds, but like just be respectful. Like would you
Speaker 5: want someone coming in your house being loud and obnoxious
Speaker 5: and going this isn't vegan, Like I get it, Like
Speaker 5: these are things that are like you know, like they
Speaker 5: would prepare a lot of times there's like, you know,
Speaker 5: this kind of understanding of like, hey, we can do vegetarian,
Speaker 5: but we don't have this special stuff for you, like
Speaker 5: we have this and you acclimate you you go with
Speaker 5: you know, like you're you know, I just think you're
Speaker 5: in someone else's house. You're in a different country. I
Speaker 5: think you need to be more.
Speaker 1: Open to when in Rome.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like you don't have to do everything they do.
Speaker 5: But you know, I just thought it was interesting because
Speaker 5: some people how their expectations and specialness they tried to
Speaker 5: take it with them everywhere and I and it just
Speaker 5: I don't know, I'm like, we're all humaning having this
Speaker 5: experience like this isn't your show, Like it's not. You're
Speaker 5: not the main character right now. You're literally like in
Speaker 5: another country for ritual, Like I.
Speaker 6: Honestly like a trip like that, Like it is all
Speaker 6: of that practical kind of logistical stuff that would be
Speaker 6: like my biggest kind of worry, Like I've got so
Speaker 6: many allergies, Like I'm like because I've got allergies like nuts,
Speaker 6: I'm allergic to this, I'm allergric to that. Like my
Speaker 6: stem is so delicate. So it's like if I did
Speaker 6: for water by accident, like I'm going to be the
Speaker 6: one that's gonna up for sure, even if everyone else
Speaker 6: is fine. So how does everyone kind of deal with
Speaker 6: like all of that kind of logistical biology aspect because
Speaker 6: it's like, like you said, it's like some stuff you
Speaker 6: just can't get or there's certain things like the standards
Speaker 6: are maybe different, the norms are different, but we all
Speaker 6: like our bodies are acclimatized, let's say, like living in
Speaker 6: the West, Like how do you kind of cope with them?
Speaker 5: I will say it depends on who you go with
Speaker 5: as well, Like we had a really good guide and group,
Speaker 5: like we were really supported and taken care of and
Speaker 5: if we had questions we could ask. They did everything
Speaker 5: they could to meet certain accommodations, especially for people who
Speaker 5: had say autoimmune and different things. But there are some
Speaker 5: things that you just can't predict, you know. But but
Speaker 5: the you know, for the most part, everyone is really
Speaker 5: like you know, was able to advocate for what they needed.
Speaker 5: But also it wasn't hard to because we had such
Speaker 5: a good you know, people holding the container for us.
Speaker 6: That's awesome. Yeah, was that their first retreat, like the
Speaker 6: folks who organized it, like their first one to Egypt?
Speaker 5: No, Well, Academy of Oracal Arts does it twice a year,
Speaker 5: they do trips. It was twenty two teachings first trip. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 5: and mock mood is he's been doing this for a
Speaker 5: few decades, like a couple decades, so he's very they people. Yeah,
Speaker 5: they got it down. I think that's why we were
Speaker 5: able to also get into certain places with the way
Speaker 5: we were able to Like they let us like incense
Speaker 5: in a temple that hadn't had sincel it in two
Speaker 5: hundred years.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, right, go back, do another one.
Speaker 5: I mean, I would love to go back, but it's money,
Speaker 5: you know, Like it's.
Speaker 2: I knew somebody was doing like some sort of Egyptian
Speaker 2: retreat where they were going to all these places, and
Speaker 2: when I looked at the coast of it, I was like,
Speaker 2: fucking ches.
Speaker 6: I actually don't even know how much it costs. I
Speaker 6: imagine it's a.
Speaker 5: Lot for what we did and what was included. It
Speaker 5: wasn't a lot in comparison, because oh yeah, I mean,
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure they're going back. I know that twenty
Speaker 5: two is going back in twenty twenty seven. But from
Speaker 5: my just my take of what I what I spent,
Speaker 5: I think it was like twelve hundred for my round
Speaker 5: trip for my flight, and then the trip itself was
Speaker 5: probably I think it was like eight grand, and then
Speaker 5: a little bit more. I think it ended up being
Speaker 5: about twelve hundred dollars or twelve, like twelve thousand. But
Speaker 5: your transportations included. You don't have to worry about that
Speaker 5: your inner transportation throughout, because we're going by boat, we're
Speaker 5: going by bus. We were even taking interior flights to
Speaker 5: a couple of places that were optional. You know, most
Speaker 5: of our meals were included. Obviously if you drink stuff
Speaker 5: like that, like that extra stuff was not included. But
Speaker 5: your basic meals were included, and someone taking care of
Speaker 5: all the logistics and getting you checked in and all
Speaker 5: that stuff. Like they even had someone meet us at
Speaker 5: the airport when we arrived and walk us through and
Speaker 5: get our visas and pass like through customs, Like it
Speaker 5: was like we just walked through. So to me, that
Speaker 5: kind of it ended up being it was about two
Speaker 5: and a half weeks total travel and all of so
Speaker 5: that that's to me was worth it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, sure I went to Italy for
Speaker 2: like two weeks. It was almost tang grand so I
Speaker 2: mean going out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, there's and there
Speaker 5: are parts that are really like I don't know, like
Speaker 5: someone mentioned in the chat about uh Agatha Christie you know,
Speaker 5: and on the you know, on the Nile, and you
Speaker 5: know we got to stay there in Elephantine Island, and
Speaker 5: I mean you just can't. You can't, like I don't know,
Speaker 5: like that kind of experience it's with me forever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's probably all the stuff that you've been
Speaker 3: reading about and kind of putting all your kind of
Speaker 3: wandering in two and then kind of the fruit it
Speaker 3: shouldn't have actually had.
Speaker 2: Losing experience is beautiful glitched out.
Speaker 5: I got it. Yeah, it was incredible, I think, but
Speaker 5: I definitely could see it being hard, if harder if
Speaker 5: there's other things to consider, just because you know, you know,
Speaker 5: if again dietary, autoimmune or other things, you know, you
Speaker 5: have to take extra precautions. But I would feel like
Speaker 5: okay with them, Like I didn't like if anything went wrong,
Speaker 5: like there were people that they knew what to do.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also I'd like to add they made sure that through
Speaker 1: certain parts of Egypt we had police escorts and there
Speaker 1: was an orang guard with us at all times, so
Speaker 1: they made sure that our safety was took care of,
Speaker 1: you know. And the places we stayed too, were like
Speaker 1: very very upscale places. So I think Morgan Freeman stayed
Speaker 1: in one of the places Prince Charles stayed in. Use Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, it was it was. It was stuff that
Speaker 1: you probably couldn't set up if you were to make
Speaker 1: this trip on your own, you know.
Speaker 6: So that's awesome. Please escorts sound.
Speaker 1: It was cool and pretty nothing like their police is
Speaker 1: nothing like our police. It was like a truck in
Speaker 1: front of you with a guy standing there with a
Speaker 1: machine gun, you know, so a lot of Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was quite quite intimidating.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm so disappointed you didn't put that on Instagram.
Speaker 6: That's what I want to see.
Speaker 5: I'm in Arizona, now I can. I can post all
Speaker 5: the eight CA's you want.
Speaker 6: Joking, kind of not joking. I think that's a cool
Speaker 6: aspect of it that I had no idea about that.
Speaker 6: It's so interesting to see like that extra detail just
Speaker 6: make so much more like real. And then that taught
Speaker 6: me between like all right, we got some cops on
Speaker 6: either side of us about the fuck people up. If
Speaker 6: they bug us, all right, we're gonna go like light
Speaker 6: some incense and like super you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: I kind of love that combination.
Speaker 5: What are these moments where you're like, okay, one of
Speaker 5: the temple guards walks up and the sun is coming up.
Speaker 5: We've done our ritual, and I was like in full
Speaker 5: at felae at isis Is Temple, I like got dressed
Speaker 5: up because I knew. I was like, this is my
Speaker 5: this is my mother, this is my thing, you know.
Speaker 5: And this guy comes walking up, he's got to ak strapped.
Speaker 5: He's like you look really cool. Like I was like,
Speaker 5: thank you, Old Egypt, Old Egypt. And equal like this.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: But yeah, so it's very like, you know, you're like,
Speaker 5: we where am I? Yeah, so there's definitely this appreciation,
Speaker 5: for sure of getting the opportunity to do that and
Speaker 5: then to make something physical out of it. I'm I'm
Speaker 5: I feel very fortunate too, you know. Oh that's funny
Speaker 5: typical female behavior from William dubs Welsh. Thank you, William.
Speaker 5: I don't know anyway, Yeah, it is a it was
Speaker 5: a good time and I feel very fortunate this, you know,
Speaker 5: and then to also have a really good collaborator like
Speaker 5: with Adam, because it is so rare.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to ask you maybe just a few
Speaker 2: more questions a little bit about the deck before we
Speaker 2: wrap it up.
Speaker 6: Actually, I've got another question before we switched to the
Speaker 6: So you said it's a Muslim country. So did you
Speaker 6: guys encounter any like Egyptians who were more interested in
Speaker 6: kind of the ancient Egyptian spirituality or or they that
Speaker 6: you met like more kind of Muslim oriented, or like
Speaker 6: what was their kind of relationship that something that you
Speaker 6: were exposed to it like with let's say type of
Speaker 6: spiritual work that you guys were there to do.
Speaker 5: I mean, there's definitely a love and a respect for
Speaker 5: the history of the ancient Egyptian culture by the Egyptian people.
Speaker 5: And there are a lot of people that are really
Speaker 5: knowledgeable about their history and there's more of this. There
Speaker 5: is a big preservation element in the community. We met
Speaker 5: a lot of people who were doing restoration and more
Speaker 5: from a educational perspective. They you know, and I just
Speaker 5: I really liked the the the way that it was
Speaker 5: more they there is just a different It wasn't just like, oh,
Speaker 5: this is just a tourist thing that there were capitalizing on.
Speaker 5: There's a genuine love and appreciation for the archival aspects
Speaker 5: of it. As far as there's also a big Coptic
Speaker 5: Christian community there, so like there's a few different things
Speaker 5: going on. Yeah, there's like a few different things. So
Speaker 5: it's not just all Muslim like as far as religious
Speaker 5: kind of takes on things there, there's quite a few different.
Speaker 6: The Coptics are quite persecuted though they.
Speaker 5: They are, but there's also and then also the Amazigs.
Speaker 5: You know, people don't realize a lot of people with
Speaker 5: the Amazig community. They think they're justin Morocco or you know,
Speaker 5: Atlas Mountains. But the Amazigs also lived in Egypt at
Speaker 5: one point and were pushed out.
Speaker 2: I schould have a Coptic church and has to fall
Speaker 2: away from me. I was kind of surprised.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a Coptic church right in Cairo. I think
Speaker 5: that was the first stop that everyone went like through,
Speaker 5: like check out the Coptic church, you know. Mm hmm.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean I do feel like it is.
Speaker 5: The majority is a Muslim, but there is an interest
Speaker 5: in the you know, more of the ancient religion there.
Speaker 5: Just it's also a lot of capitalism there too.
Speaker 2: What that. Yeah, it's like it's like doing it still.
Speaker 2: You might have to maybe turn off, you might and
Speaker 2: put it back on more so maybe it sounds.
Speaker 5: Like okay, well I have an electronic issues sometimes too weird. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm like electric electricity thing with with spirits and up.
Speaker 5: So we'll see. Yeah, it did sound like it like
Speaker 5: repeated it back to me. It's like someone's trolling me.
Speaker 5: You have a chip here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was gonna start with you, Adam, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: ask this question for both of you. Is there one
Speaker 2: card of that deck that speaks to you the most?
Speaker 1: Mm hm, Well, I'm sorry, I'm having a lot of
Speaker 1: really bad audio on my part, Like it's real choppy
Speaker 1: and high pitch that's coming through. So I apologize for
Speaker 1: like not interacting and stuff. One of the cards that
Speaker 1: I really like is I forgot to bring my deck,
Speaker 1: but I do have the original drawings right here that
Speaker 1: I can shut. So one of my favorite is the
Speaker 1: polarity card.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you can see that.
Speaker 1: And then also I am a fan of how the
Speaker 1: grounded card came out. Which inspiration behind that is the
Speaker 1: middle Pillar ritual.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that ritual. Did you have a favorite?
Speaker 5: I love the offering card. Oh yeah, this one makes
Speaker 5: me really happy.
Speaker 1: Also, we were talking earlier about like little hidden things
Speaker 1: and there. If you kind of look at where the
Speaker 1: jewels are placed, it's where the spheres are on the
Speaker 1: tree of life. So there's a lot of those like
Speaker 1: hidden in the deck as well.
Speaker 5: And I just like the principle of the offering too,
Speaker 5: is like a lot of times people think offering means
Speaker 5: something physical, you know, and sometimes when you show up
Speaker 5: as the offering, allowing yourself to be the vessel like that,
Speaker 5: that's one of the highest kind of offerings you can
Speaker 5: share with the world around you. So there's just this
Speaker 5: really beautiful I just think this like elevation in this
Speaker 5: understanding of what offering is and not just being takers
Speaker 5: in the world like that.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: What what do you hope someone becomes after living with
Speaker 2: the deck for a year?
Speaker 5: M hope they become I think just I think they
Speaker 5: become more conscious of things outside of themselves and their relationship.
Speaker 5: You know, how everything is kind of dancing with each
Speaker 5: other and it's not. Again, it's not like we live
Speaker 5: such a world that everyone's so self obsessed. And I
Speaker 5: think while I think yes, individual like being an individual
Speaker 5: and knowing who you are is important, but how you,
Speaker 5: you know, function within the world around you is also important.
Speaker 5: And also having an awareness that other more than two
Speaker 5: things can exist at the same time and be right,
Speaker 5: you know, just having a deeper connection and reverence for
Speaker 5: themselves but in the world around them.
Speaker 2: I like that. I think that's a huge part of
Speaker 2: magic actually is learning how your outside situation stimulates you
Speaker 2: really or how you let it you know, or you're
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know not to get into it,
Speaker 2: but it's just like, you know, you have all these
Speaker 2: stimulations around you, and everybody's going to have a different
Speaker 2: opinion about it. You know, it's almost like you kind
Speaker 2: of chose whatever program or whatever you looked at or
Speaker 2: whatever you heard or whatever you smelled is going to
Speaker 2: make you feel a certain way that's different to somebody else.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like you take it on a pre
Speaker 2: program that yourself. So yeah, I think that's really Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's really important to learn and start the control.
Speaker 1: What about you, Adam, I'm having difficulty with my sound
Speaker 1: at the moment. Yes, so I wasn't really able to
Speaker 1: catch most of that question. It's coming in kind of
Speaker 1: like a speeded up version of Chipmunks.
Speaker 5: Oh, it's happening on your side now?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So unfortunately I'm gonna probably sit that one
Speaker 1: out because I can't really hear. Yeah, I apologize.
Speaker 2: No, that's great. All right, then I have one uh, Sabrina,
Speaker 2: do you have anything you want to ask? I have
Speaker 2: one more question left. Okay, So I guess for you, Marcel,
Speaker 2: what do you think is the most underst what do
Speaker 2: you think is most misunderstood today about a cult practice
Speaker 2: and symbolic work?
Speaker 5: Mmm, that it's like demonic, like I mean everything, everyone's
Speaker 5: like everything's demonic or that that's like it's bad. I
Speaker 5: don't know, Like I get very upset when people talk
Speaker 5: about Lucifer being bad. I just like I think there's
Speaker 5: there's so many misconceptions based on satanic panic and you know,
Speaker 5: you know, all of that, Like there's just and I
Speaker 5: lived in La for so long, Like there's just so
Speaker 5: much stuff like fed through media, like of I mean,
Speaker 5: even with witches, with with diviners, with seers, with oracles,
Speaker 5: they'll call any of that. It's it's gone through this
Speaker 5: lens of like performance. And I think occultism is more
Speaker 5: than performance. I also think have to be as serious
Speaker 5: like everybody. You know, Like some people get crusty and
Speaker 5: serious about occultism, and I'm like, watch family guy, like
Speaker 5: loosen up a little bit, do something, you know, like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: have fun with it, but be you know, obviously have reverence.
Speaker 5: You know, we're not making fun of it, but we're
Speaker 5: you know, you got to lighten up a little bit.
Speaker 5: I think I think sometimes the world people get very
Speaker 5: on their high horse about what's wrong and what's right.
Speaker 5: And I just think that that's the problem with a
Speaker 5: lot of things in occult ism, magic, all of it.
Speaker 2: Really, I agree, that's awesome. Yeah, I think I don't
Speaker 2: know if you've seen me post it, but sometimes I'll
Speaker 2: every once in a while just put a post on
Speaker 2: says it's not all dicks and demons, Yes, and it
Speaker 2: shows the thing. Yeah no, but it's totally true. Certain
Speaker 2: even you know podcasting, just keep it real. You know
Speaker 2: in the conspiracy world where I used to kind of
Speaker 2: start it, and it's very uh, it's very rough, you know.
Speaker 2: I tried, I tried to hope to educate them over there,
Speaker 2: but it was just like everything satanic and everything's dick symbols. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, I think that's the thing. You just have to
Speaker 5: keep showing up and showing them that it's not because
Speaker 5: telling people it isn't most people don't listen. You just
Speaker 5: have to be an example.
Speaker 2: The people accusing us of that. Man's doing it again. Wow,
Speaker 2: the people who accuse us of that are the ones
Speaker 2: thinking about the demons and dix more than the fucking magicians.
Speaker 5: Well oh yes, exactly. I'm like, what's your fix on it?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: But thank you very much. That was really that was
Speaker 2: a fun, fun interview. Even the chipmunks that was even
Speaker 2: fun too. Thank you for both coming on, especially Adam
Speaker 2: I knew you were nervous, you know, and you're not
Speaker 2: used to doing this, so I appreciate you coming on,
Speaker 2: and yeah, I like to be able to get the
Speaker 2: artist on that of course, of course before we wrap
Speaker 2: it up. Yeah, of course, before we wrap it up
Speaker 2: and let you guys plug your stuff again, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: let Sabrina and Robbie you know, plug themselves. So, Sabrina,
Speaker 2: what is up? Let everybody know where they can find
Speaker 2: your stuff again, please, friends.
Speaker 6: So my YouTube is Sabrina Scott no m. Everything else
Speaker 6: you can find me under Sabrina M.
Speaker 2: Scott.
Speaker 6: So for anyone who doesn't know me, I've been pressing
Speaker 6: witchcraft for like twenty five years, same with Taro. I
Speaker 6: do this shit professionally, and I babbled too much on
Speaker 6: the internet. Got two podcasts, The Secrets of a Witch
Speaker 6: podcast and the Heal and Harm Show Nick has been
Speaker 6: on It's a good time. So if you're interested in
Speaker 6: real shit, interesting conversations, depth of practice, feel free to
Speaker 6: check out my stuff. I've got four journals out, five
Speaker 6: books now, one of which has like been loitering behind
Speaker 6: me here. So yeah, I don't know, that's my that's
Speaker 6: my shtick. Thanks so much for inviting me, Like I
Speaker 6: always love coming on and so fun to hang out
Speaker 6: with you guys.
Speaker 2: Thank you for making it, Sabrina Robbie March the storyteller himself.
Speaker 2: What is going on, sir?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this was great, Thanks for having me and
Speaker 3: it's good to meet tell you guys. As far as
Speaker 3: my stuff, you can go to my link tree which
Speaker 3: is link tree r M A r X and that'll
Speaker 3: pull up everything. And yeah, it was great Ton, thanks.
Speaker 2: Nan of course, of course, thank you. And I don't know,
Speaker 2: Adam if you can hear me, but if you want,
Speaker 2: you can promote yourself.
Speaker 1: Well, you can find me on Instagram. My user name
Speaker 1: is Adam baum L thirteen And yeah I always comment
Speaker 1: back and reply back to messages and stuff, so yeah,
Speaker 1: what's that.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming on, So I really
Speaker 2: really appreciate it, and please thank you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks for having us, Thank you for having us.
Speaker 5: It was so good to see you all. What a surprise,
Speaker 5: Sace to see you, Sabrina treatd And yeah, my my website,
Speaker 5: my Instagram it's Marcelo Croll dot com or at Marcelo
Speaker 5: Corol on Instagram. The Initiates Oracle is coming out May fourth.
Speaker 5: It's up for pre order now. Adam and I will
Speaker 5: both be flying to LA to do a deck signing
Speaker 5: at the Philosophical Research Society on May ninth, which is
Speaker 5: really exciting. And then on May sixteenth and Tucson, I
Speaker 5: will be doing an Initiates deck signing at Nexus Occult
Speaker 5: Bookstore and Audity shop here in town, which is also Yeah,
Speaker 5: just a cool spot. If you are in the Tucson area,
Speaker 5: say hi and yeah, all my other stuff you can
Speaker 5: find like on my website or in my beacons link
Speaker 5: on my Instagram profile.
Speaker 2: Awesome, that's great, Good for you. Well again, thank you both,
Speaker 2: and thank you Sabrina and Robbie for making it. And
Speaker 2: thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's up. That's
Speaker 2: why I go alive. And until the next one, everybody
Speaker 2: be well later.
Speaker 5: Fine, thanks