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True Murder with 55 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:41.319 your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 56 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:55.879 Good Evening. On February fifth, two thousand and seven, Charity 57 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.800 Lee Bennett was working her shift at Buffalo Wild Wings 58 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.400 in Abilene, Texas, when two police officers came to inform 59 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:04.840 her that her four year old daughter Ella was dead 60 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:07.520 and her thirteen year old son Paris had killed her. 61 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:10.759 He had convinced the babysitter she should go home, and 62 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:13.680 afterwards entered the room of his sister. She was beaten 63 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:18.719 and strangled and stabbed seventeen times. On March twentieth, two 64 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:22.560 thousand and eighteen, Film Rise released the chilling documentary The 65 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:26.639 Film The Family I Had, which we recounts the tragic 66 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:30.360 and unimaginable story of Charity Lee Bemmett and how a 67 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:34.439 family struggles to move forward. Part true crime, part mystery 68 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:38.159 Charity Lee, mother of both the victim and killer, relives 69 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:40.800 her agony in her Journey of love ten years later 70 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:45.919 in this featured documentary that also presents multiple and conflicting accounts, 71 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:49.919 leaving the audience questioning where the ultimate truth and an 72 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:54.960 accountability lie. A documentary of featuring this evening is The Family. 73 00:03:55.199 --> 00:03:59.800 I had an engrossing look at an unthinkable crime with 74 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:04.319 my special guest producer, director, and filmmaker Katie Green. Welcome 75 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:06.360 to the program, and thank you very much for green 76 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:11.240 to this interview. Katie Green, Hi, thank you, it's good 77 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:16.160 to be here. Thank you very much. Very powerful documentary. 78 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:21.639 Let's get to you. Co produced this and directed this 79 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.600 with a partner. Tell us about your partner and tell 80 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:27.879 us about the genesis of this. How long ago did 81 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:31.079 you plan you and your partner to do this? Tell 82 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:34.240 us a little bit about the beginnings of the family 83 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:34.839 I had. 84 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:41.079 Sure, Well, yeah, I'm one half of a co directing team. 85 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:45.000 The other half, Karlie Ruben, and I have been working 86 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:49.160 together for almost I think ten years now, so we 87 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:55.839 first directed together on our first documentary called The Deadmother's Club, 88 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:59.439 which looked at women who'd lost their mothers when they 89 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:03.000 were young and looking at the following them through various 90 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:04.879 crossroads of their life and looking at how they were 91 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:08.399 dealing with that. And it was towards the end of 92 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:10.480 that I think, I think the film was complete when 93 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:14.120 we became very interested in juvenile justice. And I think 94 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:15.439 at the time there was a lot of stuff going 95 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:20.199 on in the Supreme Court with the end of juvenile 96 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:22.680 life without Parle, and there was lots of sort of 97 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:25.519 lots of stuff that was very interested in grabbing our attention. 98 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:29.680 And we we actually, through another partner, that sort of 99 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:33.279 brother company of ours and that was doing another documentary 100 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:35.959 on death penalty, came across Charityle. She'd written a blog 101 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:41.680 on juvenile justice and you know, we really love the 102 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:43.720 way that she wrote and really fascinated by her. And 103 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:46.360 then as we learned more about the other foundation, we 104 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:50.079 found out her personal story. So we immediately called her 105 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:52.160 up and said, look, we're interested in this. You know, 106 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:56.600 understand you have a son in prison, and you know, 107 00:05:56.920 --> 00:05:59.639 she just was really open to talking to us straight away, 108 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:02.959 and yeah, it was we were always to say. For us, 109 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.680 it was an interesting transition from looking at women who've 110 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:08.120 lost their mothers to actually, you know, looking at a 111 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.639 mother who'd lost their children, and it was kind of 112 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:14.439 a reversal of grief. And we've always been very fascinated 113 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.800 in families and family stories and how families overcome you know, 114 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:24.759 trauma and tragedy and dysfunction, and we were just immediately 115 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:26.959 really drawn to Charity, who at the time was i 116 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:31.040 think in the early months of pregnancy with her son Phoenix, 117 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.240 and so we thought, this is a really interesting time, 118 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:36.959 she's in this interesting transitional stage as well. So we 119 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:40.399 began filming with her. I think it was two thousand 120 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:47.120 and thirteen, maybe yeh, twenty thirteen, and yeah, we only 121 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:49.959 just finished up obviously last year, so it was a 122 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:53.959 good few years in the making. And yeah, as we 123 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:57.360 at first met Charity and spoke to her, and then 124 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:01.399 as you know, we were speaking to her, we realized 125 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:03.839 that there were so many other parts of this story. 126 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:07.560 We were originally looking at trying to make her story 127 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:10.800 one of several stories as a look at the sort 128 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:14.199 of juvenile justice system as a whole. But as the 129 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:16.879 sort of layers started to come away and we understood 130 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.680 the depth of what was going on in this family, 131 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:22.720 we thought, actually, this is a whole, separate, unique story 132 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:25.839 that is kind of worthy of its own platform, and 133 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.319 that's when we started to speak to Paris and eventually 134 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:31.519 to Kyla as well, So the story sort of came 135 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:33.759 together that way. 136 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:38.240 In the introduction, I talk about the Paris stabbing his 137 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:43.839 sister seventeen times and beating and strangling her, and you 138 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:48.959 talk about your initial intent with this was to examine 139 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:55.000 the juvenile justice system going into this. How much did 140 00:07:55.040 --> 00:08:00.800 you look at this in terms of his story and 141 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:05.959 what the police had said, again, his culpability, his his guiltiness. 142 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.240 How far did you look I mean, what you look 143 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:16.120 at in terms of that story, and how confident were 144 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.720 you that you could still have this aim to your 145 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:25.600 documentary once you realized the factual information of this case. 146 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:28.519 Welleah. 147 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.319 I mean, obviously we came into it looking at, you know, 148 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:41.039 examining juveniles who who were selling probably long sentences, and 149 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:44.679 and Paris obviously stood out. It's a very unique type 150 00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:47.879 of store in the unique unique type of case. And 151 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:52.039 our feeling was always that, you know, we've always felt 152 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:55.840 that there was some reform needed in the juvenile justice arena, 153 00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:00.480 and we you know, of course, we appreciated that Paris 154 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.039 was a was a it was going to be more 155 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:06.279 more of a challenge for an audience to kind of 156 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:08.080 get around because you're trying to sort of make it 157 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:11.480 a plea for something that you know, people, it's a 158 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:14.240 very it's a very complicated story in a very complicated case. 159 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:16.799 But I think for that reason we were like, no, 160 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:18.919 this is this is why a story like this should 161 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:22.320 be examined with you know, with the through the prism 162 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.559 of juvenile justice. You know, because everybody, every child, we believe, 163 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:32.240 deserves the opportunity for the best possible care even if 164 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:34.879 they do something wrong, even if they do something bad, 165 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:39.840 and and that's the challenge of you know, society, and 166 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.159 so that's for us, Like we we appreciated it with 167 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:45.879 a more complicated angle, but we really felt that it 168 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:48.240 was it wasn't something we wanted to shy away from 169 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:49.879 because it wasn't going to be easy and it was going. 170 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:50.960 To be hard for people to swallow. 171 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:53.960 That was the reason why we thought, no, that for 172 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:58.039 those reasons, that's why we need to really be you know, 173 00:09:58.240 --> 00:09:59.919 giving this a platform and opening it up and have 174 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:04.600 a dialogue about this and talking about how this does 175 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:07.679 fit into a conversation about give large justice reform what 176 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:10.279 we do feel justice looks like in this kind of story, 177 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:14.240 and also brings in lots of other really interesting sides 178 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:15.919 of you know, what it's like for a family when 179 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:19.159 you have a loved one a child who's incarcerated but 180 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:22.639 apparently is trying to co parent with a system with 181 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:25.879 an institution like a prism and complications of that, And 182 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:29.759 of course the mental health as well is also a huge, 183 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:35.440 a huge factor in the incarcerated population. You know, whether 184 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:37.799 or not those needs are addressed and whether or not 185 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:41.679 whether or not the justice system is really equipped to 186 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:44.720 handle that. There's also another question that wants to bring up. 187 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:46.639 So again, I mean, as we sort of were talking 188 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:48.600 about before, I think this was a film that offered 189 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:51.639 us an opportunity to ask a lot more questions than 190 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:55.799 necessarily give answers. That that was what drew us to 191 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:56.519 this story. 192 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:02.679 Before we explain some of this story, let's introduce the 193 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:06.120 characters that you had to work with and did an 194 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:11.120 incredible job of just using those few characters. So please 195 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:14.480 introduce the characters that you did interview for this and 196 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:16.600 make up the bulk of this documentary. 197 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:21.000 Sure, I mean, yes, that was a challenge here. We 198 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:24.919 really sent her on. Specifically, one character who's Charity, who's 199 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:30.519 the mother whose thirteen year old son murdered his four 200 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:34.679 year old sister. And Charity was the first person that 201 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:37.639 we started speaking to, and she's the kind of the 202 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:40.440 one who we feel in the film is the person 203 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:42.919 you're kind of following and kind of rooting for a 204 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:48.600 little bit. Her son, Paris, who is now I think 205 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:53.440 he's twenty three now, is in prison in Texas, and 206 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:57.399 we have limited access to him obviously to his situation, 207 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:02.159 but he does appear the film on occasion, but he's, 208 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:04.960 you know, he very he very much is a character 209 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:10.200 who who I think people used to He takes up 210 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:11.840 a lot of space, even if he's not in it 211 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:15.440 that much, if you know what I mean. And then Kyla, 212 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:20.879 who is Charity's mother, Paris's grandmother, who Charity and her 213 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:25.840 mother were estranged when we first met Charity, and as 214 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:27.799 we sort of learned in the film, there's a whole 215 00:12:27.799 --> 00:12:32.320 other sort of backstory going on with her and and 216 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:36.159 her and Charities relationship. So it's really really only have 217 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:40.080 free characters. And we do meet Cayman, who is Charities 218 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:45.480 that sister, Kyla's youngest daughter, and we do meet obviously Phoenix, 219 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:49.559 who is Charity's little boy, because I said she was 220 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:51.799 pregnant when we first met her and started filming with her. 221 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:53.519 Ands and we follow you know, the first few years 222 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:57.879 of his life. And yes, and a couple of charities 223 00:12:57.919 --> 00:12:59.679 friends who are in and out. But but really the 224 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:02.440 film centers on those three characters, you know, the kind 225 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:06.039 of three generations of this one family, the son, the mother, 226 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:06.720 and the grandmother. 227 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.799 You talked about the and you do feature in this 228 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:17.759 documentary very very interestingly the fascinating character of the mother, Kyla, 229 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:22.440 But you also alluded to the background, the very very 230 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:25.639 interesting background, and then the questions that arise from that 231 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:29.120 in terms of is there a genetic predisposition? So tell 232 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.799 us a little bit about some of the facts surrounding 233 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:37.600 her mother. That very interesting at least to consider in 234 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:40.360 factor into this story. 235 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:42.639 Sure, well know how much I want to give away, 236 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:47.320 but what we learn about Charity's mother, and as I 237 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:49.159 say at the beginning of the film, you know, they 238 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:55.480 were estranged and their relationship was very complicated. And we 239 00:13:55.639 --> 00:14:02.720 learn that Charity's father, Kyla's husband had also died mysteriously 240 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:08.240 when Charity was a little girl. And Kyler, her mother 241 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:14.960 was was a it was tried but acquitted for his murder. 242 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:19.559 So there is this other kind of you know, interesting 243 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:24.440 twist that was very unexpected, and we knew about this 244 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:26.240 kind of early on, and we weren't sure how much 245 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:28.200 we were going to try and bring into this, but 246 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:30.879 we sort of felt that it was necessary to give 247 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:33.120 a bit of background context. 248 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.000 So, yeah, that's that is a sort. 249 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.080 Of something that hangs over I suppose in the background. 250 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.519 We don't go into that murder, and we don't, as 251 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:49.799 I said, we don't provide any further answers or investigation 252 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:52.440 into that, but it was something that we felt was, 253 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:55.679 you know, an important part of the context of understanding 254 00:14:55.720 --> 00:14:58.440 the family and also the tensions between the mother and daughter. 255 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:06.600 You also talk about, and you also, pardon me, you 256 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:15.679 feature so many amazing home movie footage of Ella and 257 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:21.480 interacting also with Paris and very affectionately interacting as they're 258 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.799 much younger and she's a newborn or very very young 259 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:28.039 and then you also have all of again, all of 260 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:32.480 this home footage. It's very very powerful considering that I 261 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.600 was dead and the situation with Paris obviously being her killer, 262 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:43.120 how important was it because I think this documentary has 263 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:45.960 a different look to use more of that footage and 264 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:52.159 again make less big and distinctive statements with the footage 265 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:55.080 itself that you consider for this documentary. 266 00:15:57.879 --> 00:16:04.000 Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, with this story, you know, yeah, 267 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.080 there is this one big character who we're all aware 268 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.159 of but we never get to meet, and that is Ella, 269 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:15.279 and we Yeah, that's one of the one of the 270 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.559 things about working with a family. Of course, you do 271 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.080 have access to this amazing archive in Charity is always 272 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:25.440 incredibly open and generous with all the family archives, and yeah, 273 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:28.240 it gave us an opportunity to I think I think 274 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.600 for this it was such a shocking story and it's 275 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.000 so sort of unrelatable. I think when people first hear it, 276 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:34.879 they think, God, you know, I can't even imagine, And 277 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:37.399 of course, you know, no one would want to would 278 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.240 you want to be able to imagine that? But I 279 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:40.639 think it was important for us to be able to 280 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:44.559 use this archive to say, yeah, this is a really extraordinary, 281 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.679 incredible and complicated, shocking story. But ultimately, this is a 282 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:50.080 family and they do normal family things, and I think 283 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:54.559 there's something really relatable about the archives, you know, just 284 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:58.039 it sort of I think it was important for us 285 00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:01.919 to be able to make a connection for the audience 286 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:05.160 with this family and show that, you know, before this 287 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.720 tragedy and trauma, you know, this was just a sort 288 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.640 of normal family in so many ways, as much as 289 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.039 any family as normal. So yeah, it was it was 290 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:18.599 one way of kind of doing that. And also I 291 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:23.119 think because Paris is someone who we have limited access 292 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.880 to and obviously is someone who you know, I think 293 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.240 of course people come to him with their ideas, their 294 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.680 preconceptions of who he is and what he's like, and 295 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:35.200 it was important for us to try and show that, 296 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:39.000 you know, he was someone before this as well. And 297 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.720 again like try and and try and make him in 298 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:44.440 some way a sort of relatable character as well, because 299 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:46.039 I think it was I wanted to share the truth 300 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:50.039 of everybody, and I think to try and show the truth, 301 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:53.599 you have to sort of have an understanding of someone before, during, 302 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.799 and after, and that was our way of trying to 303 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:56.160 do that. 304 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.960 In this documentary, you could have had Charity Lee have 305 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.839 a completely different response to the killer of her daughter, 306 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:15.039 that being her son. And again there are things that 307 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:21.519 she says later about this very very complex emotional response 308 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:25.839 to her son that's incarcerated, So you do show footage 309 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:30.240 of them visiting, and again this trying to keep her 310 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:36.119 family together and move forward with her family. And that's very, 311 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:42.240 very fascinating. But what is her opinion? What is her 312 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:48.119 feeling about her son and considering the murder of her daughter, 313 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:53.160 those are complex feelings, but what is her sense of 314 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:57.279 feelings towards her son now that he's locked up? 315 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.000 Well, I mean, firstly, I mean I don't feel like it, 316 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:05.680 you know, I don't. I can't answer that. Any charity 317 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:10.160 can answer that. But you know, during the process of 318 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:12.440 filming her, of course, that was something that we've felt 319 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:15.200 all the time. You know, we're conscious of she's constantly 320 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.160 battling with you know, she loves this is her child, 321 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.000 and she loves him, and she you know, her mother 322 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:28.000 has unconditional love for her children and and you know 323 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:32.480 the mother, she's no different, and so she's she struggles 324 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:38.720 with that. But she also, you know, obviously it's horrified 325 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:43.440 by what he did and wants him to be helped. 326 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:47.759 And I think that was I think that's a hard 327 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:49.440 it's a very hard question for me to answer. Obviously, 328 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.279 is not being charity, But I think that was kind 329 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:54.440 of at the heart of what why we found this 330 00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:56.799 story so fascinating on what we try to sort of 331 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.319 show throughout the film is that she's constantly bad sling 332 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.039 with that. And I think there were times when you know, 333 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.519 we would we would be speaking to her about Paris, 334 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.039 and you could tell that she had, you know, just 335 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:09.920 this love that she you know, she would miss him 336 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.519 and she'd be wanting to miss she hadn't seen him 337 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:13.799 in a while, and she'd want to see him, and 338 00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:16.680 she'd still her baby. And then she'd have times when 339 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:18.400 she's really angry with him, and then she'd have times 340 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:20.359 when she really needed distance from him. And I think, 341 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:23.039 I think she feels all those things. And I think 342 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:28.839 that's why this was a really interesting sorry for us 343 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:30.960 to follow, because I think it showed all the all 344 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:35.400 the wide spectrum of human emotions and sort of nuanced 345 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.640 feelings that someone would have in that situation. It's not 346 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:45.079 black and white, it's it's a big gray area. And yeah, 347 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:49.119 that's that's the truth. I think of where where things 348 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:52.000 are for her, it's somewhere somewhere along that at any 349 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:53.640 different time, and it changes all the time. 350 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:01.759 What did Charity want and her mother Kylo want in 351 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.640 terms of a result, in terms of court. He said, 352 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:07.960 the defense lawyer pled him not guilty, But what did 353 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:09.839 they want for him? Where did they want to see 354 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:12.200 him go and be dealt with? 355 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:16.960 How sure? I mean yeah, I mean I really That 356 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.519 was also a line that for me was really powerful 357 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:22.079 when we were looking at the juvenile justice issue, because 358 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.000 I think Charity says this great line about the defense 359 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.240 attorney just wanted him to be not guilty, prosecution just 360 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:31.960 wants him to be guilty. And I think she said 361 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:33.920 someone should be giving it down about what happens to 362 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.319 this kid. And obviously, as the parent, she cares, but 363 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:40.200 she felt there should be another kind of also was 364 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:43.519 a victim. It was difficult for her to take on 365 00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:46.279 that role as well. I mean, I think they would 366 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:51.119 have liked for him there to be more more mental 367 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:56.400 health support, more intervention to try and figure out what 368 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:03.400 exactly had gone on and how best help Paris well, 369 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.160 you know, whilst also recognizing that he needed to be 370 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:15.200 kept away from from Charity and obviously punished for what 371 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:19.119 he did to Ella. So that's sort of a you know, 372 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:22.480 a much bigger question that I guess, I guess for 373 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:25.839 them they have one answer, But what should society do 374 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.440 with with a case like this? What is the right 375 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:31.480 thing to do? And I think there has to be 376 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:35.039 a more holistic approach to it, not just kind of 377 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:38.119 looking at Okay, you're either innocent or you're guilty, and 378 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.559 if you're guilty, then you get this, and if you're innocent, 379 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:43.759 then you get there. In reality, you know, we're all complicated, 380 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.680 and there's especially with kids, I mean, there's this huge 381 00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:49.759 gray area in the middle of how much can we help, 382 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:56.799 what kind of help and for how long? So I 383 00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.079 think they would have liked more mental health intervention. 384 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.480 The idea too that she was looking for answers, Charity 385 00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:09.240 was looking for answers and then she was given a 386 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:15.240 diagnosis and so and very very interesting part of this 387 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.599 documentary is the statement she says about when she reaches 388 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:26.200 out to the profilers and the FBI. The again the 389 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:30.880 famous part beats the doctor. But what is the diagnosis? 390 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:34.480 And then what does Charity feel about that diagnosis? And 391 00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.640 as filmmaker, what does that have to do in your 392 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:43.200 mind with mental illness or the issue or the controversy 393 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:45.720 or the question of mental illness. 394 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:51.319 In this documentary, are you referring to the I think 395 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:53.680 it was one of the part deep doctors that she 396 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:57.599 describes a tot her that she should she should have 397 00:23:57.640 --> 00:23:58.279 run and hide. 398 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:04.920 And I think that, you know what a shocking and 399 00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:10.279 terrifying diagnosis to get obviously about your child, but also 400 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.400 you know what an unrealistic response. I mean, very few 401 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:18.880