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Speaker 1: Tonight, it's my pleasure to introduce our friend Alan Berger.

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We're continuing our series of workshops on the theme of

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emotional sobriety. Doctor Burger will speak to our group on

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the first Monday of each month throughout this year twenty

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twenty two. Tonight is the third part of his discussion

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of how we can apply the twelve Essential Insights for

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Emotional Sobriety to our recovery and growth in our programs.

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Doctor Burger will be talking about discerning our emotional dependency.

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And let me tell you a little about Alan. Alan

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recently celebrated fifty years of sobriety using the Twelve Steps

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and over forty years as a practicing psychotherapist specializing in

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addiction to recovery with an emphasis on emotional sobriety. Doctor

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Berger will bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to.

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Speaker 2: Us each month.

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Speaker 1: Like I said in Hiss and So, he's going to

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be talking again about the insight number three and you

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can find that referenced in his new book, which is

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those the twelve Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety, and it's

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actually chapter five of the book if you want to

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if you haven't had the book, handy and you want

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to look at it for further information.

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Speaker 2: So now it wasn't that genius. I don't have to

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intro you now, I mean you got me intro.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been made, You've been made.

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Speaker 2: She promoted the book.

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Speaker 3: She did it all, She did it.

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Speaker 2: All for me.

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Speaker 4: No, that's Susie.

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Speaker 2: That's Susie right.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome

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back to the scene of the conversation. You already know

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what it is.

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Speaker 3: It's the VR is Thursday night.

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Speaker 2: We've been on fire all week long and I had

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to bring in the final boss of psychotherapy of emotional sobriety.

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Speaker 3: Come on, let's have a real conversation.

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Speaker 2: The number of dollars one eight hundred nine twenty fifteen

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point eighty before I introduced my brother. This is my brother.

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I don't think you all understand. This is my bro

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has always been a catalyst and a supporter of my work.

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Was able to see it, see where it's coming from,

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understand it. Man, Doctor Berger is one of him one's.

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I wouldn't bring him in here if he wasn't one

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of them ones. Ladies in Joe, he's one of them.

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One'sy tonight's topic. We're going to cover some of the

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concepts and ideas not only in his book, but in

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the body of work that he has established. I mean,

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how long have you been a therapist? Christ I know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, susioad. The announcement was made five years ago because

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just August first, I celebrated fifty five years clean and sover.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Fifty five years and I've been as a psychotherapist actually

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about fifty three of those fifty five years.

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Speaker 2: Yikes.

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Speaker 4: Okay, that's a life.

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Speaker 3: That's a lifetime.

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Speaker 4: Brother. Yeah, and look, yeah, you're my brother too, man,

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and I do get what you do. And I think

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everybody that listens to you understands that when you show up,

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you show up for them, that when you share, you're

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sharing something that you feel is of value and can

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make a difference in people's lives. And that's why I've

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loved your work up to this point in time, because

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you've made an incredible contribution to the well being of

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anyone that comes in contact to you. Man, You're that

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you're like the pied Piper of mental health. Oh wow, wow,

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you just carry such a wonderful message. And not only that, Man, listen,

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I don't trust anybody that doesn't walk the way they talk.

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And you walk the talk. You walk the talk. You

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are the Zoe. You guys, here, here is the Zoe

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out there that's living his life, that's trying to show up,

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that's trying to figure things out, that hurts like you

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and I hurt that. It feels the pain that you

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and I feel. That struggles with the same issues. But

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what you bring to that struggle is the amazing degree

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of consciousness you had. I was talking about that earlier.

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The consciousness you bring to your work, to your body

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of work has been phenomenal and inspires me as well.

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Come on, all right, good night everyone.

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Speaker 2: Now, before I get this conversation going, I would be

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remiss if I did not acknowledge that today for me

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was a tough day. I appeared on many shows on

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this station over the last eighteen months after the fires

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happened in Altadena in Pasadena, and I you know, I

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talked about how a couple of my older brothers were missing. Well,

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today my second oldest brother, Maurice big Mo, passed away.

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And when I tell you that was a protector, a mentor,

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a father figure, an example, he was everything for me

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and just to see him over the past years just

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deteriorate because of codependency on alcohol. Yeah, it leads us

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right into our topic, you know, being in a toxic

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relationship and enabler drinking all. It leads us into our

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topic tonight, rest in peace, big brother, Mo, I love

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you forever. And now let's get to it. Emotional sobriety

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a step by step guide on how to break insecure

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attachment code dependence.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, let's dedicate this show to your brother to let's

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do that. This is for you, Mo, This is for

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what didn't happen in your life that can happen in

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other people's. Yeah, and hopefully you're suffering and your pain

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will inspire some people to say, hey, time to wake up.

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This is the real deal. This is not a dress rehearsal. No,

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this is it, man, this is it.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Let's get to the questions. Doc, you

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got to walk us through this. Yeah, number one, give

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us your definition of emotional sobriety. What is it? Why

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do we need it? Why is it important right for

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us to cultivate and kind of develop it? What is

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an emotional operating system?

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Speaker 3: Hey, talk to me bro.

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Speaker 4: Listen, what a juicy question. Very juicy. Let me take

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the first bite of that. Yes, and the first bite

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would be, in one word, emotional. Sobriety has to do

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with freedom, emotional freedom. And see what we don't realize,

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all of us think. We walk around thinking, oh, I'm

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in control of my life. I've been in control of

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what I'm doing. But the truth is is Freud had

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it right that we are being lived by the forces

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within us, and those forces, most of them, are outside

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of our awareness. We don't realize it. And so when

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I talk about freedom, you know, if I go back

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into my history when I was my first drink was

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when I was twelve years old, I can remember it

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like it was happening yesterday. And I'm seventy four, so

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that was a few years ago, right, sixty two years ago.

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What happened that day as I was twelve years old,

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my father just died from cancer. I had all these

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feelings as a twelve year old boy. My father's my

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heritage on his side is Jewish, but I was in

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a German Italian neighborhood and Jews were not popular in

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that neighborhood, and so I had all these feelings, but

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I didn't want to be who I was. I thought

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if I was somebody else other than myself, I could

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be okay. And dealing with the pain of my dad's loss.

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I didn't even know how to wrap my head around

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that because he was important to me, very important, and

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so I had all these feelings inside that I was

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trapped with. I had no idea how to address, a

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deal with and cope with the reality of my life.

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There was no one around me doing very good job

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of it. You know, my dad was dying for over

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a year and we never talked about it. It was

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that kind of deal though. So when I took that

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first drink, something really amazing happened. I felt free. It

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created freedom, man. I was okay being Alan Berger. The drink,

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the drink, the alcohol changed my consciousness. That made me okay.

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And I'll tell you, man, I don't know if I

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was born an alcoholic, but the minute I took that drink,

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and alcoholic was born. And that idea, man, that if

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one is good, more is gonna be what better better?

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I got it, man, And I was off. I was running.

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I was sprinting as fast as I could. In alcoholism,

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I was a teenage alcoholic. I was blacking out several

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times a week. I mean, my life was going nowhere,

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nowhere at all. So I didn't even realize that I'm

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being controlled by all these feelings, these all these ideas

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that I've got to be somebody other than I am

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to be okay. Well, it's not easy to be somebody

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you're not. It's like building a house on somebody else's property. Man,

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it's just not a good idea.

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Speaker 2: It's not easy to be somebody you're not.

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Speaker 3: It's not.

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Speaker 4: And yet I thought if I was, that I could

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be okay. I hope our listeners can hear the level

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of self rejection, of abandonment that occurred within me.

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Speaker 2: You went right to the point I was thinking when

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you started to speak, And what came into mine is

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a term we use on this particular platform all the time,

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and that self avoidance. Yes, so alcoholism assists, Oh yes, right,

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so it's it's a conduit for self escapism. Talk to

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me about that.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's it. See, So that's where I got freedom.

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That's the only time I was free. But of course

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when I sobered up or when I used I used

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drugs other than alcohol, when I got straight, I was

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still left with being Alan Berger. You know, it's just

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like Charlie Brown. And no matter where Charlie Brown goes,

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still Charlie Brown. I was still Allen. And when I

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was fortunate, man, I'm so grateful to this day to

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be helped by the United States Marine Corps. I got

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my Marine Corps hat on.

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Speaker 2: You see that, Yes, I see it.

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Speaker 4: I'm sporting my Marine Corps hat today. When I was

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helped into recovery by them, that I saw that there

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was a possibility of living this life and to be

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free without having to drink or get high. That's emotional sobriety. Now,

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how you get there, how you start to deal with

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that is a big question. And how do we do that?

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How do we get there? By first scene? How determined

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we are, that we are the determined ones, that I

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am not the determining force in my life. All these

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other ideas are running a show, and I'm thinking, I've

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got to live up to these things to be okay.

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So when I abandoned myself, I could not do what

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a healthy person does. You see, a healthy person lives

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their life and they try to actualize who they really are.

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I dedicated myself to actualize in a concept of who

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I thought I should be. Mmm mmmm, that's where the

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problems started.

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Speaker 2: Man, are there other types of sobriety that we need

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to develop. There's emotional sobriety. You've already done a great job.

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Speaker 4: Spiritual sobriety, I think is important and it goes hand

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in hand I think with emotional sobriety. But obviously if

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you're in, if you're addicted to alcohol and other drugs,

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you need physical sobriety first. We see that if you

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don't break the bonds at that addiction, no matter how

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much help you get, you're gonna get caught. You're caught.

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The addiction is holding you hostage. We are taking hostage.

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There's been so many studies of how the brain changes

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and when it changes. Man, all that you can think

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about you become obsessed with getting high and getting drunk.

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So the person has an obsession. They have a physical

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compulsion that's got to be broken. Once that's broken, then

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you can get on and start doing this other great

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work on your emotional sobriety, which I see is related

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to spiritual sobriety.

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Speaker 2: I love that you mentioned spiritual sobriety. Because the first

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thing that came to mind was spiritual bypassing. Oh yeah, right.

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Oftentimes we will use the verbiage the terminology of spirituality

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as a means to escape. It's almost like a spiritual drink,

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just to get us through the difficult moment. And I

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think we're living in a time right now where internal

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resilience is at an all time low. Yes, so how

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do we cultivate that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a good point, man, It's it is

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at an all time low. Because see, nobody, nobody helps

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us learn how to deal with our feelings. It's an

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job training thing. And look, we do the best we can,

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but it's never enough. I mean, that's why my work,

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the book I wrote on twelve Essential Insights, the book

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you've got coming out soon, right, I'm telling you, man,

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that's that's the kind of that's the information that we

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need to start raising our consciousness. And so I'm excited

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about this work man. You know, I've been doing it

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for a long time and I'm as excited, if not

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more excited about it today because I see people getting free.

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When you see somebody get free, man, they're standing on

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the top of the mountain and they're shouting, I'm free,

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free at last, Free at last, Lord Almighty, I am.

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Speaker 2: Free at last.

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Speaker 4: I understood why he said that, and I see people

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in recovery experiencing that same thing.

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Speaker 2: So I was talking all week long to the point

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that you're making right now. And I've had so many

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conversations at my local cigar lounge people listening to the show. Hey,

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hold on, Zoe, I don't know. I don't know about this,

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but when we come forward, I'm going to bring this

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concept to you because you're talking about freedom. I gotta

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share this with you when we come forward. More from

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the v O R.

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Speaker 4: Good song.

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Speaker 6: That's right, man, right, you did it.

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Speaker 4: That's the emotional sobriety theme song.

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Speaker 6: Right there.

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Speaker 7: Hey guys, I'm Heidi Preeb. Welcome back to my channel,

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or welcome if this is your first time here today

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on this channel, we are talking about what I kind

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of think of as the cardinal error of those who

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you're anxious on the attachment spectrum. And when I say

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the cardinal error, I don't mean that this is something

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you are in intentionally doing to sabotage your relationships. What

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I mean is that there is this kind of blind

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spot this area where your attachment system does one thing

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that tends to get you the direct opposite of what

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you want out of your relationships. So today we're going

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to talk about what that is as well as how

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to work with it when it comes up, so that

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you end up getting more of what you do want

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and less of what you don't instead of the opposite

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in your relationships. So, with no further ado, the cardinal

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error of those who fear anxious on the attachment spectrum

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tends to be not leaving any room for the possibility

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of separation or loss in the relationship. So when you

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have an anxious attachment system, what your system is hardwired

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to do. From the time you are at a very

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young age, you have learned to seek consistent proximity to

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your attachment figure, and when you were young, this was

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very adaptive for you. Right when we are young children,

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it's good to keep our caregivers close, especially if they

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are a little bit incistent and the attention that they're

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able to give us. It is very adaptive for us

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to want to make sure that we are always on

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their minds, that we always have their attention, that if

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we need them for something, they will definitely be there

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within a reasonable time frame to respond to us. However,

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what often happens when you grow up with an anxious

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attachment style is that you don't learn to change those

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rules when you get into a romantic relationship as an

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adult adult romantically, let's.

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Speaker 2: Get her out of here. I love her, Heidi preb

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She cooks with the rarest grease.

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Speaker 3: She cooks with the rarest grease.

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Speaker 2: But she just described everything we talked about, right. She

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talked about the attachment system that you develop when you

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have an inconsistent caregiver. Right, and we don't turn that off.

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Do we become attachment aholics?

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Speaker 4: You know, it's great that she's sharing us, but the

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problems much bigger though.

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Speaker 2: Talk to me.

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Speaker 4: See, the attachment is to the idea that I'd be

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okay if it doesn't just relate to people. Man, I'm okay.

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If I get that job, I'm okay. If Suzie Velensky

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would have liked me in the third grade, I would

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have been okay. I'd be okay. If I got that

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grade on the paper I was hoping i'd get, I'd

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be okay. If I had that car I want it,

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I'd be okay. If I had people respect me the

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way I want to be respected.

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Speaker 6: See.

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Speaker 4: So what people have done is they focus this attachment

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styles on a person. But it's not on a person,

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it's on a consciousness. It's a consciousness that attaches itself

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to things, and these things have to be a certain

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way for us to be okay.

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Speaker 2: I'd be okay if.

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Speaker 4: You got it. Man, that's the problem. And you see,

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that's where we lose our freedom. If I'm okay, if

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if that means I am so dependent, we call it

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I'm looking for the environment to support me.

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Speaker 2: External.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's an external focus. If things go my way,

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I'm okay. If things don't go my way, I don't

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know what to do. I don't know how to cope

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with this. I don't know how to deal with it

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because I have the idea, if they don't go my way,

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there's something wrong. It's supposed to go my way. Life

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is supposed to be what I want it to be,

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if it's going to be okay. So that when you

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have that consciousness, you cannot be free. Gosh, you cannot

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be free. You are attached to everything. And then here's

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the other thing. See, there's two forces in our culture

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and you could wrap on these. I know for a

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lot and often need to talk maybe about what that

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shows up in different communities. Right, But one is it's

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all about me. In our culture, we promote a narcissism.

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There's no question we believe in personal importance. There's a

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great side to that, and there's a very very destructive

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side to that because it means that when I'm looking

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at things, I am looking at what we call a

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reflection of me.

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Speaker 2: Come on, come on, you got twenty seconds, bring it home.

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Speaker 4: I'm looking at a reflection of me. So I take

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it all personally. If you don't do what I want

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you to do, it means you don't care about me.

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Or if you talk to me a certain way, I

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get offended. How dare you don't you know who I am?

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Rite that kind of thing? How could you talk to

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me that? If you love me, you wouldn't do that.

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Speaker 2: Listen, the stove is getting hot, ladies and gentlemen, the

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grease is bubbling.

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Speaker 3: We about to drop this fish in Listen when we

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come forward more from the VEO R. The fire's just

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getting lit.

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Speaker 8: I'm Ross Rosenberg. Welcome to my latest YouTube video and podcast.

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Today I'm going to step backward just a little bit.

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We're going to talk about the term self love deficit disorder.

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Why eight years ago did I make that term so

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important to the world, to my life, to me? Why

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was I so convinced that the word codependency, the term,

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the understanding of it, the treatment of it. Why was

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I so convinced that we had to replace it with

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another term? Well, this is what this video or podcast

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is going to be about. I want to go all

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the way back my psychotherapy origin. I started in the

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psychotherapy field nineteen eighty eight, almost thirty seven years ago.

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My first job required me to do a little bit

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of anything and everything without quite knowing what I was doing. Unfortunately,

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that's the plight of many new psychotherapists we learn on

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the job. Little did I know I was going to

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be working with codependents. I didn't really know what codependency was.

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But I started to notice a pattern with some of

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my clients. They were beaten down, they were weakened, they

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were sad, they were lonely and complained about a partner

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who completely controlled Riddy, killed them, manipulated them. Over time,

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it was clear to me a certain type of person

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was in a relationship with another certain type of person

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if they were codependent as I understood back then, which

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was a term that was popularized by Melody Beattie's book

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Codependent No More, published in nineteen eighty six. That book

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was a blockbuster. It was the first book to talk

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about codependency or what some people call codependence. Before it,

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there wasn't anything out there that quite said exactly what

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this codependence or codependency thing is. And she borrowed all

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of her knowledge from all the people that preceded her,

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mainly people in the twelve step treatment industry, the mental

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health industry. There wasn't really a lot of information out

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there on this codependency thing, but it was all I

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had to work with. I started going to workshops. I

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remember being profoundly impacted by the work of Terry Kellogg,

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John Frile, among others. So it became clear that codependents

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were people that were passive, compliant. They took care of

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other people. They always fell victim to a certain type

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of person that could manipulate them, get into their head,

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keep them from leaving, convince them that they are loved,

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convince them that they love them. So began my career

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working with codependence, and I worked with them off and

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on for the next fifteen years. But over time I

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became more and more frustrated with the term codependency, co dependent,

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co dependence. I didn't like the word at all. I

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hated it. I know that's a strong term, but I did.

403
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In twenty eleven, I was hired by a company, the

404
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biggest company in the United States that specifically trains counselors

405
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and psychotherapists. They contacted me and asked me to do

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a training on codependence and what they called emotional manipulators.

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I was ecstatic. I had been trying to get a

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good job in the professional training field for quite a

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while and they were the best. But I had to

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do it on a title that they absolutely required me

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to do. It was codependence and emotional manipulators. So I

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don't want to get off track, but eventually I would

413
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change the term emotional manipulator into pathological narcissists so that

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I could use my own new ideas what was coming

415
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to be that eventually would be my first Human Magnet

416
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Center book. I could use these ideas about codependence, falling

417
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in love with and becoming attracted the narcissists, the idea

418
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that led me to what would become the human magnet syndrome,

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the idea that codependence and narcissists are almost magnetically attracted

420
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to each other. Their opposite personalities fit hand in glove

421
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like a dancing couple. The fixer and the pleaser naturally

422
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fits in with the needer and the taker. Their opposite

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personalities fit and it becomes a coordinated, yet dysfunctional relationship.

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Speaker 2: The show is just running so perfectly because he's talking

425
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about everything that we've just discussed. Yes, that was Ross

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rossenb author of the book The Human Magnet Syndrome, and

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he's talking about this magnetic connection between the codependent, which

428
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he has retermed as self love deficient SLD. You and

429
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I were just talking about self avoidance, self escape, and

430
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they orbit around each other to the narcissists, and that

431
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ties right back into the point you were making about

432
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this narcissistic society and this individualism. Talk more about it

433
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and see if you can integrate some of the pieces

434
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that Ross Rossenberg just laid out.

435
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Speaker 4: Well, it's you know, look, when we took the break,

436
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I was talking about how our culture promotes this idea

437
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it's all about me. But that's only half of the

438
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stories though, the other half of the story is our

439
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culture also says you are more the more you have,

440
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I am more. So it's all focused on materialism. So

441
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you take that and it's about me. And now my

442
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,440
sense of self depends on what I have. So if

443
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I have you instead of being in a relationship with you,

444
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I have a relationship with you means that I possess that.

445
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And see, so that's where the veer goes off. We

446
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think I'd be okay. If he's talking about a very

447
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similar phenomena. I see it different than he does. I'll

448
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tell you how I see it. Everybody is born with

449
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two forces inside of them. They're both instinctual, they're powerful.

450
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It's a week the part of me that wants to

451
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be in a relationship wants to join. I'm also born

452
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with a part of me that's an I that wants

453
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to be my own person. Now, how do we put

454
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these together? How do I respect my desire to be

455
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a part of and yet keep my individuality. See, we

456
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define mature love as love that has union but with

457
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the preservation of your individuality or integrity. That's what Eric

458
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:08,759
from described it as union with the preservation of integrity.

459
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So I join you. I'm a part of this, but

460
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I don't I'm just a part of it. I'm also

461
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,079
myself at the same time I'm with you. That turns

462
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out to be a very important thing, and I'm going

463
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,480
to tie it to what he said. So what he

464
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talks about is self love deficiency, right, I believe I

465
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,440
don't believe in these diagnoses we have, not that people

466
00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:34,640
don't suffer from mental illness. There's clearly a mental illness.

467
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But I think our biggest problem is we're stuck. We're

468
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,799
not sick, we are stuck developmentally at the stage of

469
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:47,880
development I'm talking about. We don't know how to have

470
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a relationship and still have ourselves. The codependent, what side

471
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,119
of the bed does she fall out of? The WII side?

472
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The narcissist falls out of what side? The eye side?

473
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Speaker 3: The eye side? They don't know.

474
00:28:01,559 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 4: Nobody ever taught them how to be a we and

475
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,519
an I. At the same time, nobody ever showed the

476
00:28:06,599 --> 00:28:08,880
narcissist how to be an eye and a we and

477
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,839
why they came together other than because it's a human

478
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:17,519
magnet attracting his pathology. They're attracting each other. Because relationships

479
00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:22,279
are people growers. It's gonna cause them trouble, and that

480
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:26,119
trouble is exactly what's supposed to happen, so they can

481
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,440
start growing up.

482
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: I don't know who he's talking to tonight, Andy's time

483
00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:33,400
for a price break.

484
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 3: Let's go.

485
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: Come on, ladies and gentlemen. You're listening to the vo R.

486
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,920
Listen when we come forward.

487
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:47,359
Speaker 3: We don't cap cooking. Let's go.

488
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 9: This is the one thing that no one talks about

489
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,519
when we talk about relationships.

490
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:53,079
Speaker 6: Right now.

491
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,359
Speaker 9: Everyone loves discussing attachment styles. And if you follow Jaybirdfit,

492
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,440
then you know I have you covered in that area.

493
00:28:59,759 --> 00:29:03,160
One thing we don't talk about is differentiation. And while

494
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,960
that might sound complex at first, I can assure you

495
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,799
that it's not. In the book Secrets of a Passionate

496
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,519
Marriage by David Snarch, differentiation is described as your ability

497
00:29:13,559 --> 00:29:16,799
to maintain your sense of self while being emotionally and

498
00:29:16,839 --> 00:29:20,039
physically close to others. So then the question is what

499
00:29:20,079 --> 00:29:22,920
does that even look like? Number one is maintaining a

500
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,960
strong sense of self, being able to hold on to

501
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,960
your values, beliefs, and identity.

502
00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: Even that is exactly what you just said.

503
00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he's right on. I mean doctor Snarch was brilliant.

504
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:40,359
I mean he took all of these ideas from doctor

505
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,000
Murray Boonen, who was the first person to introduce this

506
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,240
idea of differentiation into psychology. You see, he was a psychiatrist,

507
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,200
a medical doctor, and he didn't go along with what

508
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,559
Freud was saying. He thought Freud was off that it's

509
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:59,119
not all about sex. He thought that what happens is

510
00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:03,119
is that there's a that's in nature that grows us

511
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:06,440
a certain way, and it grows us in the direction

512
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:11,880
of becoming what we can be. And that force was

513
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,960
a force so called differentiation. So that each cell, excuse me,

514
00:30:17,119 --> 00:30:22,079
each cell has the ability to obviously become what it

515
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:28,359
can be. If it if it's genetic DNA and genetic

516
00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:32,720
programming unfolds itself, it'll grow into let's say it was

517
00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:34,240
going to be an eye. It'll grow into your eye

518
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,920
in a most beautiful way. Right. But if that cell,

519
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,799
it goes through stages, so when it hits the final stages,

520
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,359
it's differentiated. It's an eye. But if you take that

521
00:30:46,519 --> 00:30:48,880
cell earlier on and you move it, let's say, from

522
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,839
a fetus's eye socket to the cheek. What happens is

523
00:30:53,839 --> 00:30:58,920
something incredible. Instead of a third eye growing here, that

524
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,599
cell will pick up all of the DNA programming from

525
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,880
the other cells and change who it is. It's a

526
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,319
codependent cell. Oh my god, we found it. It's a

527
00:31:09,319 --> 00:31:13,599
codependent cell. It now lost who its true nature is

528
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:17,880
because it hadn't formed the self that what's I don't

529
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,359
know who that was was talking about. So Bowen saw that,

530
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:26,319
and he says that applies to families. If families are healthy,

531
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:29,759
they grow each individual to become who you can be

532
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,799
and encourage you to be your own person. But now

533
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,519
listen to this example, though, in terms of what goes wrong.

534
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,960
You know, I got a little girl eight years old,

535
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,319
she's CC, right, and she comes home second grade. Daddy, Daddy,

536
00:31:42,319 --> 00:31:44,079
look at what I did in school today. Right now,

537
00:31:44,079 --> 00:31:45,839
I'm taught to be a good father. So what's my

538
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,799
first response. I'm looking at her artwork and I say,

539
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,960
oh my god, yeah, that's what's out of my mouth,

540
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:54,839
right god, CC. And then the music comes on. If

541
00:31:54,839 --> 00:31:59,000
the DJ was there, he'd be doing, Hellujah, CEC, that's incredible.

542
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,799
What are may piece of art work? Let's put it

543
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,960
up here on the fridgial. Let everybody see how wonderful

544
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,400
you are. She goes back to school tomorrow, and what

545
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,960
is she thinking? I'm gonna do something else. I wonder

546
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,480
how Daddy's gonna think about this? Now, what if she

547
00:32:11,599 --> 00:32:14,759
came home and instead of me doing that, I said

548
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:20,480
to her, Wow, Ceci, I can hear how excited you are?

549
00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:24,440
You know, honey, it's good to feel that excited about

550
00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:27,559
things you do. What did you like about doing that?

551
00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:31,880
What was fun about that? How come you use that color?

552
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,960
How come you like that color? What did this mean

553
00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:38,240
to you? So now she goes to school, what is

554
00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:38,960
she thinking about?

555
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: So now she's thinking about herself.

556
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 4: You gotta process she I have reflected I had and

557
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,519
what we call right. I am mirroring her response and

558
00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:55,279
her excitement, and I'm helping her become aware of who

559
00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,240
she is instead of imposing on her a standard you

560
00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:04,039
got to live up to great to be okay? Right,

561
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:09,240
So we talk about this codependency being, you know, you know,

562
00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:12,440
an epidemic in our culture because none of us are

563
00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:15,039
encouraged to be who we are. We fall out of

564
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:16,839
the eye side of the bed, We fall out of

565
00:33:16,839 --> 00:33:18,960
the w side of the bed. Now you and I

566
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,920
were talking about when I said that we are stuck.

567
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,279
We're not sick, we're stuck. Our diagnosis is a gross disorder.

568
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,599
We need to grow up. We need to grow up.

569
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,039
And he was talking about growing up means learning to

570
00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:34,839
stand on your own two feet, having a clear sense

571
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,880
of who you are, but not a rigid sense that

572
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,519
you're able to roll with the punches, because if you're rigid,

573
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:44,759
that's not healthy either. So you have to have a

574
00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:47,559
clear sense of who you are, but also humble where

575
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:49,640
you don't know you know, I might not have it

576
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,519
all figured out here, Maybe I got this wrong, so

577
00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:57,599
that there's room for me to keep growing. See if

578
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,799
I can clean that kind of an energy as well

579
00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:03,960
as what we call there's five points of balance that

580
00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:06,799
really help a person develop a sense of self. This

581
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,000
is one really having a clear sense of who we are,

582
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:13,920
but a flexible sense, which to me means that there's

583
00:34:14,039 --> 00:34:20,280
humility in the recipe for that self. Nobody talks about

584
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,239
humility and psychology. I don't know why, but it's such

585
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,239
an important thing recovery. People talk about it all the time,

586
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:29,239
but you don't hear much. Ado you hear a book

587
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,920
on any psychologist to coming out and saying, Hey, let's

588
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,519
talk about the value of humility. It's incredibly important because

589
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:40,440
it gets rid of what it's all about me. Piece

590
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,280
that's the antidote to narcissism, is some humility that it's

591
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,079
not all about me and I don't need things to

592
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:51,079
be better. I need to learn how to get better

593
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:54,280
and cope with what's going on instead of demanding everything

594
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:55,800
by the way I think it should be.

595
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 2: Come on, So we have a growth disorder.

596
00:34:58,880 --> 00:34:59,519
Speaker 4: That's it, man.

597
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:03,679
Speaker 2: Growth disorder is basically rooted in the construct of I

598
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,840
need to stay the same, I need to refine what

599
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,920
I already know. I can't step outside of them.

600
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 4: It's all about me, and I need to have things

601
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,760
to be okay. I need to have my way to

602
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,079
be okay. I need to have life is supposed to

603
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:17,840
be what it is, and when life does what I

604
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,400
want it to do, I'll be okay. That's where we're stuck.

605
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,719
And you see kids do that. They want it their way,

606
00:35:24,119 --> 00:35:26,320
they can't deal with when it doesn't go away, they

607
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:26,880
throw a fit.

608
00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: But and you're right on point, because I'm saying the

609
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,199
adult that we're dealing with in adult relationships are still.

610
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,679
Speaker 3: The kids they are they have we all grown up.

611
00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 4: We're stuck. We got a growth disorder, man, we growth disorder.

612
00:35:41,519 --> 00:35:44,400
King baby, queen baby, that kind of stuff.

613
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: Baby queen baby, Ladies and gentlemen, Oh, the voice of reason.

614
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,159
Speaker 3: It's all complete fire tonight.

615
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 10: Y'all.

616
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,039
Speaker 2: Didn't think I was gonna bring another heavy hitter in

617
00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:58,239
the building right after precious. Oh God, this whole week

618
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,440
has been on complete fire. Listen, there's a whole nother hour.

619
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:08,480
We got doctor Alan Berger, author of Emotional Sobriety. If

620
00:36:08,519 --> 00:36:11,440
you don't go out and get that book right now, everybody,

621
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,719
go get that book. Ladies and gentlemen, the Voice of

622
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,599
Reason will see you on the other side.

623
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:26,199
Speaker 10: Hello everyone, sobonner Hello. In South Africa, where I come from,

624
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,559
soul Borna is the Zulu word for hello. There's a

625
00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:33,800
beautiful and powerful intention behind the word because salbona, literally

626
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,079
translated means I see you, and by seeing you, I

627
00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:42,159
bring you into being so beautiful. Imagine being greeted like that.

628
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,719
But what does it take in the way we see ourselves,

629
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,639
our thoughts, our emotions, and our stories that help us

630
00:36:50,639 --> 00:36:55,280
to thrive in an increasingly complex and fraught world. This

631
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,920
crucial question has been at the center of my life's

632
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,280
work because how we deal with our inner world drives

633
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,440
everything every aspect of how we love, how we live,

634
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,880
how we parent, and how we lead. The conventional view

635
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:15,400
of emotions as good or bad, positive or negative is rigid,

636
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,440
and rigidity in the face of complexity is toxic. We

637
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,360
need greater levels of emotional agility for true resilience and thriving.

638
00:37:27,559 --> 00:37:30,679
My journey with this calling began not in the hallowed

639
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,159
halls of a university, but in the messy, tender business

640
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:37,679
of life. I grew up in the white suburbs of

641
00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:42,639
apartheid South Africa, a country and community committed to notazieing

642
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:47,440
to denial. It's denial that makes fifty years of racist

643
00:37:47,519 --> 00:37:51,719
legislation possible, while people convince themselves that they are doing

644
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,519
nothing wrong. And yet I first learned of the destructive

645
00:37:56,559 --> 00:38:00,639
power of denial at a personal level before I understood

646
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,039
what it was doing to the country of my birth.

647
00:38:06,039 --> 00:38:09,440
My father died on a Friday. He was forty two

648
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,880
years old and I was fifteen. My mother whispered to

649
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,719
me to go and say goodbye to my father before

650
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,639
I went to school, So I put my backpack down

651
00:38:17,679 --> 00:38:20,320
and walked the passage that ran through to where the

652
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,599
heart of our home my father lay, dying of cancer.

653
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,280
His eyes were closed, but he knew I was there

654
00:38:27,199 --> 00:38:30,800
in his presence. I had always felt seen. I told

655
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,000
him I loved him, said goodbye, and headed off for

656
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:34,719
my day.

657
00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 11: At school.

658
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,679
Speaker 10: I drifted from science to mathematics, to history to biology

659
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:44,119
as my father slipped from the world. From May to July,

660
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,480
September November. I went about with my usual smile. I

661
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,159
didn't drop a single grade. When asked how I was doing,

662
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,519
I would shrug and say okay. I was praised for

663
00:38:56,559 --> 00:39:02,920
being strong. I was the master of being okay. But

664
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:05,480
back home we struggled. My father hadn't been able to

665
00:39:05,519 --> 00:39:08,440
keep his small business going during his illness, and my

666
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,719
mother alone was grieving the love of her life, trying

667
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,639
to raise three children, and the creditors were knocking. We

668
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,079
felt as a family financially and emotionally ravaged, and I

669
00:39:20,199 --> 00:39:26,280
began to spiral down, isolated fast. I started to use

670
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:31,880
food to numb my pain, binging and purging, refusing to

671
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:36,000
accept the full weight of my grief. No one knew,

672
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:39,880
and in a culture that values relentless positivity. I thought

673
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,599
that no one wanted to know, but one person did

674
00:39:44,639 --> 00:39:49,039
not buy into my story of triumph over grief. My

675
00:39:49,159 --> 00:39:52,440
eighth grade English teacher fixed me with burning blue eyes

676
00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:57,440
as she handed out blank notebooks. She said, write what

677
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:04,440
you're feeling, tell the truth right like nobody's reading. And

678
00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:07,639
just like that, I was invited to show up authentically

679
00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:11,360
to my grief and pain. It was a simple act,

680
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,239
but nothing short of.

681
00:40:13,199 --> 00:40:14,159
Speaker 11: A revolution for me.

682
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,199
Speaker 10: It was this revolution that started in this blank notebook

683
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:25,039
thirty years ago that shaped my life's work, the secret,

684
00:40:25,159 --> 00:40:30,800
silent correspondence with myself. Like a gymnast, I started to

685
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,400
move beyond the rigidity of denial into what I've now

686
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,880
come to call emotional agility.

687
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,199
Speaker 6: Life's beauty is Andy.

688
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 3: Who is that? Come on?

689
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:55,159
Speaker 2: Wow, Susan David? Yes, cooking with the rarest truffle oils.

690
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,599
This is good stuff. Tonight, the voice of reason is

691
00:40:58,639 --> 00:41:04,679
on complete fire. We have an amazing guest, an outstanding topic.

692
00:41:05,679 --> 00:41:11,920
He's written books, he has decades of experience emotional sobriety

693
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:18,400
is Tonight's conversation. And doctor Alan Berger not only just

694
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,480
a guest, but a literal for real deal friend of

695
00:41:22,639 --> 00:41:27,079
mine is in the building. If you guys are brave enough,

696
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,360
you should call in the number of dollars one eight

697
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,400
hundred nine twenty fifteen point eighty. And Susan David was

698
00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:39,679
just speaking to this elasticity. You know this, you know

699
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,239
the opposite side of the coin of rigidity, and we

700
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,760
need that in our emotional states. Now, I've heard people

701
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:52,639
say emotions aren't real, they're fleeting, they come and go.

702
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,920
You should not be moved by the ephemeral nature of emotions.

703
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,400
What are your thoughts on that kind of framing of emotions?

704
00:42:03,199 --> 00:42:05,679
Speaker 4: What I loved about what she just shared with us.

705
00:42:06,519 --> 00:42:10,360
I mean, I think every one of us could feel

706
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,000
what happened when she started to accept herself rather than

707
00:42:15,119 --> 00:42:19,679
reject herself. See, that's the more important part of it,

708
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:25,280
is that she changed her relationship to herself instead of

709
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:30,039
retreating herself as though she shouldn't be feeling what she's feeling.

710
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,960
She doesn't that she shouldn't have these feelings or she

711
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,840
doesn't know how to deal with them. What she did,

712
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:43,079
she was given an invitation to be herself. Now, on

713
00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:45,920
one hand, we can all sit here and say, isn't

714
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,960
it sad that somebody has to tell us that that's.

715
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,079
Speaker 2: Okay, isn't it sad? But you just opened up a

716
00:42:53,199 --> 00:42:54,320
can of whoop ass.

717
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 4: But see, that's what she gave her. She gave her

718
00:42:58,119 --> 00:43:03,519
permission to befriend herself. You see the first level of

719
00:43:03,559 --> 00:43:06,440
self acceptance. And we can spend a little time talking

720
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,440
about self acceptance because it's so relevant to this whole

721
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,119
discussion of emotional sobriety. You know, if I'm not accepting myself,

722
00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:16,719
how can I hold on to myself? If I don't

723
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,360
like myself, how can I stand for myself? I can't

724
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,079
do that. Level one in terms of self acceptance is

725
00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:26,719
to be on your own side. That's what she did.

726
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,719
She was on her own side. Finally. Now the negative

727
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,639
side of way of saying that is self acceptance has

728
00:43:34,679 --> 00:43:38,800
to do with an utter refusal. And everybody listened to

729
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,880
this because I don't think any of us have this,

730
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:49,280
an utter refusal to be in an adversarial relationship with ourselves,

731
00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:56,119
right I listen. Yes, no calling yourself names anymore, No

732
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,800
saying you're stupid, no saying how you know you're a dummy?

733
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,679
How could you do that? You're an idiot? Nobody's going

734
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,519
to love you. All of this stuff is you're in

735
00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:08,679
an adversarial relationship. Most of us wouldn't talk to a

736
00:44:08,679 --> 00:44:11,039
friend like that, right, most of us wouldn't do that.

737
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:12,800
You don't treat a friend the way you do that.

738
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:16,719
So the first level of self acceptance is to befriends yourself. Say,

739
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,239
you know, it's like I am who I am, right,

740
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,800
And that's what she said. All feelings are just feelings,

741
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,559
you know, we will talk about. They're not an infallible

742
00:44:24,559 --> 00:44:26,760
guide to the truth. There's no question about that. They

743
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,320
can can be distorted. But at the same time, they

744
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,440
are also signaling devices. They're telling me something about what's

745
00:44:33,639 --> 00:44:36,360
important to me. I like this, I don't like this,

746
00:44:36,519 --> 00:44:39,079
I want this, I don't want this. You see, when

747
00:44:39,079 --> 00:44:42,639
we're healthy and we're operating from a center. I don't

748
00:44:42,679 --> 00:44:45,840
operate from shoulds. I operate from what I like and

749
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,320
what I don't, what I want, what I don't want,

750
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,960
what I will, or what I want to do. That's it, brother,

751
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,400
that's all it is. When you're an adult, those are

752
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,639
the only reasons to do something. I will say that again.

753
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,599
When you're in an adult the only reason to do

754
00:45:01,679 --> 00:45:03,960
something is because you want to or you don't.

755
00:45:05,519 --> 00:45:06,039
Speaker 3: That's it.

756
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 4: There's no better reason than yourself. And so that's level one.

757
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,760
Level two is to say, all of these are parts

758
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,000
of me, the good, the bad, and the ugly. I've

759
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:20,159
got all of those inside of me. You know, I realized,

760
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,639
I tell people all the time, I'm a lot smarter

761
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,239
now that I realize how stupid I am. I can

762
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,519
be stupid, but I can also I'm also smart. I

763
00:45:28,559 --> 00:45:30,559
have both sides. I can be a wonderful guy. I

764
00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:33,760
can be a total asshole that your book has written

765
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:40,519
about how to intercept the wandering asshole, but I can

766
00:45:40,559 --> 00:45:43,079
be that most of the time. I'm not, but I

767
00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:45,440
have that part of me. If I don't accept that

768
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:52,280
what we resist persists, we know that. That's level two.

769
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,719
This is all of me. I am what I am.

770
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,239
I like the way they Popeye said it. I am

771
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,400
what I am. I'm Popeye, the sailor man.

772
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 2: What's interesting about what you're saying is really a lot

773
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,840
of people, and we talked about it in that first hour.

774
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:13,719
You call it the emotional operating system. In my book,

775
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:21,599
I metaphorically call it the kada, a psychological kada that yes,

776
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:28,440
sequence of right, just like martial arts. You're just conditioned

777
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:33,239
to react. You don't respond, you react, and sometimes beneath

778
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,760
your consciousness you're not even aware of it. Right. What's

779
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,199
beautiful about what we're talking about here. Many people think

780
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:48,280
that instant sequence of reactions is who they are. And

781
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,440
what the young lady just exposed to us in that

782
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:56,840
reading was there was a moment where she was outside

783
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:01,280
of that programming and she was able to see the

784
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:02,880
real hurt.

785
00:47:03,159 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 4: Right, well said so? Well said Jeef said it? Jeef

786
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,719
said it. Listen, we're all asleep dreaming. We're awake. Yes,

787
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,320
we are all asleep. You cannot wake up with the

788
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,440
same information I put you to sleep. You have to

789
00:47:18,519 --> 00:47:21,960
get some new information. That's what this show is about.

790
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,079
That's why you spent your whole life trying to raise consciousness.

791
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,280
And that's what I'm trying to do too. Wow, what

792
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,400
I say is only the best, and you can see

793
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,880
the worst in you. We'll get to the third level

794
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,000
of acceptance. When are we gonna go away for a

795
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,000
break or you can say it now? So the third level?

796
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,400
So first level befriends yourself, utter refusal to be in

797
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:45,760
an adversarial relationship.

798
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:46,639
Speaker 2: No adversarial.

799
00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:50,599
Speaker 4: Number two, I am I am all of these parts.

800
00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:54,800
I'm not any one of these things. That's the good,

801
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,440
the bad, and the ugly, right, the good bad. Now

802
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,199
I am the sum total of that. That's what I

803
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:03,960
don't identify myself as just being selfish. I can be selfish,

804
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,360
but I'm more than that. That's why I say I'm

805
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,679
a recovering alcoholic and atic. But I'm much more than

806
00:48:08,679 --> 00:48:10,159
a recovering alcoholic andatic.

807
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 2: How about that?

808
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 4: Right? That kind of thing. The third level is being

809
00:48:14,519 --> 00:48:19,199
able to own what we've done wrong and deal with

810
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,679
it and face it with compassion, so that our focus

811
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,360
is on not judging ourselves for what we've done, but

812
00:48:26,599 --> 00:48:31,400
understanding what is going on here that that that may

813
00:48:31,679 --> 00:48:35,559
that contributed to my behaving the way I behaved. Wow.

814
00:48:36,039 --> 00:48:40,280
So that third level is developing a deeper understanding of

815
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,840
ourselves and our operating system, as you'd like to call it.

816
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you call it the operating system. I've called it.

817
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 4: The kada, the kada and listen, and it's well, you know,

818
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,599
we learn free form kada is what we're doing here

819
00:48:54,159 --> 00:48:56,280
is in your book, it would be that we don't.

820
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,559
We want it. We have to learn basic things. You

821
00:48:58,639 --> 00:49:01,079
have to do that I was I was when I

822
00:49:01,119 --> 00:49:04,039
was in Vietnam. So I'm a Vietnam combat veteran. Yes,

823
00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:06,440
in nineteen seventy I was over there. We had two

824
00:49:06,599 --> 00:49:10,079
Korean Marines assigned to our unit to teach us. Taekwonda

825
00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:13,000
look at that, and we were learning kadas there you go,

826
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,320
And the first quada was the basic kada. Right is

827
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,320
learning the stances going down block, middle, punch down, block,

828
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,599
middle punch three middle punches down block, middle punch down block.

829
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,719
Basic kada right, basic. You had to learn the basic

830
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,320
kotta to get to the next one. And it kept

831
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,800
building on each other, right, But it was all moving

832
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,440
towards what freestyle fighting there you go, which has no

833
00:49:35,559 --> 00:49:37,119
program no programming.

834
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:38,559
Speaker 2: That's why I chose Bruce Lee.

835
00:49:38,639 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 4: Bruce Lee, what did he say? Said, I don't fight

836
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:42,360
an opponent.

837
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. He says, I don't

838
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,760
hit it hits all by itself, right, no style as style,

839
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,760
no limitation as limitations. And this man, this is so great.

840
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 3: We got callers on the line out, Oh good, I

841
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:57,079
want to.

842
00:49:57,039 --> 00:49:59,119
Speaker 2: Bring some folk in here to talk to my brother.

843
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,559
Let's talk to brother who we got online right now?

844
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,079
Tony from Inglewood California. Inglewood is in the building, Tony,

845
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:09,519
what are your thoughts on tonight's topic.

846
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 6: I'm enjoying it. I think the only thing is that

847
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,599
I would love to hear. I mean, I heard you

848
00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:21,519
guys quote Freud. I like to hear some perspective as

849
00:50:21,559 --> 00:50:23,119
a relations to fanones some.

850
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

851
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:30,639
Speaker 6: I'm hearing everything with all due respect everybody. I'm hearing

852
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:33,719
everything feels to be with exact in the use zones

853
00:50:34,119 --> 00:50:37,559
from a European perspective, because when I listen to all this,

854
00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:39,960
I can think, I think of I am because we are,

855
00:50:40,119 --> 00:50:43,719
because we are, therefore I am. It's through relationship that

856
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,760
I feel good that I actually affirm who I am

857
00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:50,360
and recognize when I'm all based. I don't see that

858
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,519
as like being like a ball and chain around me

859
00:50:53,679 --> 00:50:56,559
or either losing myself. I would love for you guys

860
00:50:56,599 --> 00:50:59,760
to talk about the importance of being in relationship as

861
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,760
we less. You know, stand up on your own two

862
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,519
feet if that makes it, you say. And another thing

863
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,719
I've thought when the brothers said about his daughter, I mean,

864
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,480
the first thing I would do with mine would be

865
00:51:11,559 --> 00:51:14,719
to congratulate and say, you know what, that's good, baby.

866
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,519
I thought you did good and really share with me

867
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:19,599
such as say, then I would then I would go

868
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,800
into why did you do ABC and D, because my

869
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,960
first thought would be to congratulate and embrace her on

870
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:28,719
being celebrating the fact that she learned something that day

871
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,440
in school. Yeah, I'm just looking you know.

872
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,199
Speaker 2: I don't know. You are making sense. And I don't

873
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,960
see that as a wrong answer. If you're doing both right,

874
00:51:38,119 --> 00:51:43,239
congratulating and then having her look inward and reflect and

875
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,199
see herself in the way that doctor Berger explained, I

876
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,519
think both are good. I think that's an example of

877
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:52,880
good parenting. Tony, your thoughts.

878
00:51:52,599 --> 00:51:55,639
Speaker 6: And I think, and let me just add this one thing.

879
00:51:55,679 --> 00:51:58,519
I think shouldn't we have a little more balance at

880
00:51:58,559 --> 00:52:02,679
the conversation because this just just me. I appreciate you,

881
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,760
doctor Burger. I really celebrate your years of sobriety. I

882
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,960
think that's wonderful. I even appreciate that other woman that

883
00:52:09,079 --> 00:52:12,599
just spoke, But a black hearing a black voys other

884
00:52:12,679 --> 00:52:15,599
than yours. Though, in terms of a scholar and researcher,

885
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:20,440
scientists and or a philosopher or psychologist psychiatrists, I need

886
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,239
to hear some of that from that perspective. As well,

887
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:25,280
because all I mean is white people.

888
00:52:26,119 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, you got it.

889
00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:32,599
Speaker 6: I know it right, It's over that white woman you

890
00:52:32,639 --> 00:52:34,480
played on the radio just a minute ago.

891
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,679
Speaker 2: Tony, if you don't sit down and have a cigar

892
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:41,039
this evening, listen, you know good and well. We play

893
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,559
black authors, we talk with we're talking.

894
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 3: It can't be right now.

895
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,119
Speaker 2: This is right now, Tony. Listen, look at Tony. It

896
00:52:51,199 --> 00:52:53,760
can't be right now, Tony, because this is right now,

897
00:52:54,119 --> 00:52:58,280
and we need perspectivity. How about that. You don't like perspective?

898
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,079
Speaker 6: Yeah, I like it.

899
00:53:02,159 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 3: I love Tony.

900
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,159
Speaker 2: I know, I know Tony.

901
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:06,679
Speaker 3: This is my Tony.

902
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 2: Tony is Tony belonged to me? He in my circle?

903
00:53:11,039 --> 00:53:15,800
I know Tony. This is the type of conversations I

904
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,679
have with Tony in person.

905
00:53:19,039 --> 00:53:20,599
Speaker 3: Listen here, Zoe, put a tie on.

906
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,280
Speaker 2: You're too smart to not wear a tie. You understand.

907
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 3: I need a tie on you.

908
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:25,519
Speaker 7: Tho.

909
00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 2: You're a handsome man, You're tall. I need you to

910
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,039
put on a suit and tie. People need to see

911
00:53:31,039 --> 00:53:32,000
you in the streets. Though.

912
00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 3: I talked to Tony every day.

913
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:35,199
Speaker 2: I love Tony.

914
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 3: He gets to say this. It's all right, Tony.

915
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,599
Speaker 4: Can I respond to Tony? Listen and listen, you're right

916
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:47,039
on man. This is this is a perspective I've developed from,

917
00:53:47,159 --> 00:53:49,800
you know, my perspective growing up. But I'll tell you

918
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,320
what what this whole thing is about in terms of

919
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:57,000
the joining, because I agree with you, community is incredibly important.

920
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,760
And we saw that even in the studies he did

921
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,440
with the rats. You're probably familiar with this, this researcher

922
00:54:03,519 --> 00:54:06,320
up in Canada. He was trying to understand addiction, right

923
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:08,360
and when he put all these rats together and they

924
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,440
were living together and they had no ways of really

925
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,519
having fun and entertaining, and then put drugs in the scene,

926
00:54:13,679 --> 00:54:16,679
all these rats became addicts right way. They never per

927
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,440
formed any Stay.

928
00:54:18,199 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 2: Right there, Stay right there. We're gonna go back. We're

929
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,159
gonna We're gonna get this, Okay, the rat experiment. I

930
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,360
just saw this. When we come forward, doctor Burger's going

931
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,320
to break it down for the curmudgeon Tony.

932
00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 11: I guess you could say that I am a self

933
00:54:33,519 --> 00:54:38,760
compassion evangelist. I love spreading the good word about self compassion.

934
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,880
I've devoted the last ten years of my research career

935
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,119
to studying the mental health benefits of self compassion, and

936
00:54:47,199 --> 00:54:50,119
more recently I've been working on developing Andy.

937
00:54:50,599 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 2: I want to give this clip a little time to breathe.

938
00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:57,119
But we have a caller on the line. We haven't

939
00:54:57,119 --> 00:54:59,760
heard from him in a minute. I definitely want to

940
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:01,920
get the caller on. I don't want him waiting on

941
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,159
the line too much longer than he's already been waiting.

942
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:11,440
We got Leroy from Inglewood back in the building. Inglewood

943
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,480
is showing up big time. Hey, Lee Roy, I'm gonna

944
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,079
give you three minutes. I'm gonna get out your way.

945
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 3: Let's go. It's me, yeah, Leroy. What are your thoughts

946
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:23,239
on tonight's topic?

947
00:55:24,199 --> 00:55:26,679
Speaker 6: First of all, I was waiting to hear from Tony again.

948
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 5: He left trying to trying to come out here and

949
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,239
tell you how to run your show. I can't imagine

950
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:34,320
anyone doing back.

951
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,079
Speaker 6: Well, I don't imagine any of your callers doing anything

952
00:55:38,159 --> 00:55:40,079
like that, trying to tell you how to run your show.

953
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,519
Speaker 5: I don't know what type of caller would ever do that, well.

954
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,079
Speaker 3: I know one, I don't know.

955
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:49,559
Speaker 5: I don't know any callers do whatever do that, especially

956
00:55:49,559 --> 00:55:52,440
when you got an esteemed guest all who've been supporting

957
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,039
your work for all this time, And I.

958
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 6: Can't imagine anybody calling to do that.

959
00:55:58,079 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 3: But nonetheless that's your uncle Lee Roy apparently.

960
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,760
Speaker 5: So okay, So I didn't know it. I missed a

961
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,599
Feller reunion in two when he was there.

962
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 6: Who knew.

963
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:11,639
Speaker 3: It wasn't It wasn't.

964
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 6: In the DNA, right.

965
00:56:12,639 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 2: I love it, brother, I love it.

966
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 3: I love it.

967
00:56:15,559 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 5: But I did want to congratulate you on a show

968
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,960
you did with about Carlos Miller on one of your

969
00:56:24,039 --> 00:56:32,079
other outlets, and you were dealing with adjustments h and

970
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,199
uh you and the lady that was on the show

971
00:56:35,159 --> 00:56:37,519
and uh. And also I was about to ask Tony

972
00:56:37,559 --> 00:56:39,199
had he seen any of your shows.

973
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 6: With Jehudi my Hot Ride if he's if he's willing

974
00:56:44,519 --> 00:56:47,800
to go backwards, it will help him to move forward.

975
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,679
Speaker 5: But you know, I can't tell Tony what to do

976
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,360
because he don't want to hear it from me. I

977
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:55,119
don't know what I'm talking about. But congratulations on a

978
00:56:55,159 --> 00:56:59,679
wonderful uh month. Thank you, Condolencist.

979
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 6: Condolences.

980
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,039
Speaker 5: Condolences is actually what I called in for. Condoleus is

981
00:57:05,039 --> 00:57:06,920
on behalf of your brother I know you were looking

982
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:08,800
for one of your brothers. Was that the one you

983
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:09,519
had been looking for?

984
00:57:09,559 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 2: We was looking for both of them and we found

985
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,079
both of them and then you know, eighteen months later,

986
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:21,679
you know, my second oldest brother, Maurice, passed away today today.

987
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,639
Speaker 5: I'm not happy to hear that, but I must say

988
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:30,960
that with the release comes relief and praise God that

989
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,719
the suffering is over. Yeah, and I pray that the

990
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:40,440
family funeral is not the only family reunion and that

991
00:57:40,519 --> 00:57:43,159
you guys can grow stronger as a result of this.

992
00:57:44,599 --> 00:57:45,519
Speaker 6: As opposed to.

993
00:57:47,239 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 5: The struggle that comes with not knowing. So now that

994
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,679
you do know, y'all can stay in touch to a

995
00:57:52,679 --> 00:57:53,320
greater degree.

996
00:57:53,519 --> 00:57:54,239
Speaker 2: Maniate.

997
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 6: That's actually what I called.

998
00:57:55,199 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 5: In because you and your guests are killing it and

999
00:57:59,000 --> 00:57:59,960
you don't need any help with the.

1000
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 2: Thank you brother, I appreciate you. Lee Roy from Inglewood.

1001
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,119
If you want to bring your city in the building,

1002
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:06,840
all you got to do is call us one eight

1003
00:58:07,199 --> 00:58:10,119
nine twenty fifteen eighty will see you on the other side.

1004
00:58:11,159 --> 00:58:13,119
Speaker 12: When the child is born and the child is two needs,

1005
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:19,480
the first need is for attachment. An attachment is contact, connection, love.

1006
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,480
Without that, the human child does not survived. Any mammalian

1007
00:58:24,559 --> 00:58:26,880
child or even an avian child doesn't survive. So that

1008
00:58:27,039 --> 00:58:29,320
as soon as you get past the level of reptiles,

1009
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,960
the reptile is hatched, the mother's long gone by then,

1010
00:58:34,079 --> 00:58:37,320
and the reptile infant either lives or dies, but there's

1011
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,800
no attachment to a parenting figure. As soon as you

1012
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,079
get to the level of birds, now the baby bird

1013
00:58:44,119 --> 00:58:47,199
has to have an attachment with the pants. The pants

1014
00:58:47,199 --> 00:58:49,840
have to be attached to the baby, otherwise the infant

1015
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:55,599
simply does not survive. Mammalians even more so, and most

1016
00:58:55,719 --> 00:58:58,840
of the human because we're the least developed, the least mature,

1017
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,880
with the least developed brains, and the most dependent for

1018
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,119
the longest period of time with any creature in the universe.

1019
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,360
So our attachment needs are enormous and they remain important

1020
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,440
throughout lifetime because we have to have attachments to from societies,

1021
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,800
social groups, without which we don't survive. So attachment is

1022
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:21,000
a huge need. Be able to connect, belong, beloved by,

1023
00:59:21,199 --> 00:59:26,400
and love. That's just the basic human need. But we

1024
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,239
have another need as well, which is for authenticity. Authenticity

1025
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,400
is the capacity, as I said earlier, to know what

1026
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,039
we feel, to be in touch with our bodies, and

1027
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:38,159
to be able to express who we are and manifest

1028
00:59:38,159 --> 00:59:41,599
who we are in our activities and in our relationships. Now,

1029
00:59:41,679 --> 00:59:44,440
why is that? Well, think of a human being in

1030
00:59:44,519 --> 00:59:45,800
evolutionary period.

1031
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: How was goobor man Gooboor cooks. Yes, yes, he cooks

1032
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,480
with the rarest grease. I love what we're talking about

1033
00:59:55,519 --> 00:59:59,159
tonight because it's leading me to what I wanted to

1034
00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:04,400
talk to you about this whole discussion. Need has a

1035
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:10,119
purpose when we're young. But if we look at the

1036
01:00:10,159 --> 01:00:17,960
ancient traditions, the far Eastern traditions, Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, all

1037
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:23,760
of these spiritual belief systems believe in this self realization,

1038
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:28,400
self actualization. I believe Young took a great piece of

1039
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,960
that with his concepts on individuation, right, the full self,

1040
01:00:33,039 --> 01:00:36,000
the shadow and the mass, the persona, all of that right.

1041
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:42,199
But I believe the reason why unconditional love is out

1042
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:48,840
of people's reach is because they're still in this pattern

1043
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:53,679
of need, which keeps them looking outward. You talked about

1044
01:00:53,719 --> 01:00:57,480
earlier in the First Hour, being able to go inside.

1045
01:00:57,519 --> 01:00:59,599
You gave the example of the little girl and the

1046
01:00:59,639 --> 01:01:05,639
pain being able to go inward. I think need helps

1047
01:01:05,679 --> 01:01:11,199
you survive the original environment, but you can't carry need

1048
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:15,880
into an intimate environment because need will always make that

1049
01:01:16,079 --> 01:01:22,559
environment conditional. I call need the first sin HM, talk

1050
01:01:22,599 --> 01:01:24,400
to me about your thoughts on that.

1051
01:01:24,599 --> 01:01:27,239
Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting when Gabora was sharing this thing

1052
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:32,039
about we all have attachment, I had the vision of

1053
01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:41,239
what attachment looks like without dependency. See is attachment possible

1054
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,280
without being dependent on another person? And I think the

1055
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:48,159
answer is yes. See, that's emotional autonomy, that's growing up.

1056
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,039
But we don't get there because we're stuck. We're stuck.

1057
01:01:52,159 --> 01:01:58,039
We're attachment equal dependency. Where we refused when we were

1058
01:01:58,039 --> 01:02:02,280
inside our mother's womb, were one with her. When we

1059
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:07,599
were born, we started the ever last journey, everlasting journey

1060
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:13,239
towards what separation, becoming your own person. And I believe

1061
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,960
the life force inside of us is that force that

1062
01:02:17,159 --> 01:02:20,039
wants to move us in the direction of becoming whole,

1063
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:27,480
becoming holy, becoming a whole person, of being an integrated person.

1064
01:02:28,119 --> 01:02:32,760
And so when that life force is moving forward, I'm growing,

1065
01:02:33,079 --> 01:02:38,599
I'm thriving, I'm becoming. When we get stuck, that life

1066
01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:41,639
force now creates and is wanting to move forward, but

1067
01:02:41,719 --> 01:02:45,760
it doesn't have anywhere to go. And that's that thing,

1068
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:49,719
is that when I believe I need you to be

1069
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,800
a certain way for me to be okay. I'm dependent

1070
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,800
on you instead of being I need to be a

1071
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,480
certain way to be okay. There's an interesting thing that

1072
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:02,719
I'm working on a little book now. It's going to

1073
01:03:02,719 --> 01:03:06,719
be a small book where I take what's been wrongly

1074
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,800
called the Saint Francis prayer, which you've probably heard of.

1075
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:14,079
It is better to understand than to be understood. That's

1076
01:03:14,159 --> 01:03:16,760
one of the lines. There's all kinds of things like that,

1077
01:03:17,159 --> 01:03:20,280
and we've all thought of the Saint Francis prayers. Better

1078
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:24,159
for me to understand you than for you to understand me.

1079
01:03:25,039 --> 01:03:27,559
And if I give you understanding, I will get understanding.

1080
01:03:27,719 --> 01:03:30,840
We all understand that. That's a powerful way. But I've

1081
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:36,199
flipped it around. It's better to understand me than to

1082
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:37,760
expect you to understand me.

1083
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 2: It's better that I understand myself.

1084
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,159
Speaker 4: And if I do, then if you understand me, great.

1085
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,800
I can appreciate that. If you don't, I still don't

1086
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:53,760
lose myself. It's better to love than to be loved.

1087
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,760
Screen emer It's better to love me, yeah, than to

1088
01:03:57,960 --> 01:03:59,920
look to you to love me. It's better to come

1089
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,199
comfort them to be comforted. Learn how to comfort yourself

1090
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,800
rather than look to everybody else to comfort you. I'm not.

1091
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:11,440
I think attachment's great. And when we can be in

1092
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:15,559
a relationship where we learn how to attach and keep

1093
01:04:15,679 --> 01:04:22,559
our integrity, I call it connection with integrity cooperation with integrity,

1094
01:04:23,039 --> 01:04:27,000
then you create What Tony was talking about is the

1095
01:04:27,239 --> 01:04:30,639
value of community is to be in a community that

1096
01:04:31,039 --> 01:04:35,639
is a life affirming community that encourages people to operate

1097
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:39,280
with cooperation and integrity at the same time. But we

1098
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:45,440
don't do that. Our culture focuses on cooperation without integrity, right,

1099
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:47,760
And that's a problem, man, It's a serious problem. So

1100
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,239
in relationships, we get in there and we sacrifice ourselves. Man,

1101
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:53,360
didn't you learn love is sacrifice?

1102
01:04:53,559 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 2: So to self interests, right, that serve themselves and because

1103
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:01,960
they match, we can work together.

1104
01:05:02,239 --> 01:05:05,559
Speaker 4: Because part of my self interest is I want you

1105
01:05:05,639 --> 01:05:09,000
to be happy. If I love you, I am selfishly

1106
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:14,800
interested in your happiness. I want you to do what

1107
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:16,960
you want to do. I want you to enjoy your life.

1108
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,519
But if I got to possess you, if I'm fused

1109
01:05:19,519 --> 01:05:22,360
to you, then if you do something where you separate

1110
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,760
yourself from me, all of a sudden I start to

1111
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:25,400
get threatened.

1112
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:28,039
Speaker 2: You're leaving me.

1113
01:05:29,599 --> 01:05:33,119
Speaker 4: That's right, man, and that costs of that anxiety. I'll

1114
01:05:33,159 --> 01:05:36,880
tell you if our listeners are hearing. One thing I

1115
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,760
want to say tonight is the way you manage your

1116
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:44,159
anxiety in a relationship is going to pay great dividends.

1117
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,199
When you look to control someone else to deal with

1118
01:05:48,239 --> 01:05:51,119
your anxiety, you're gonna cause a lot of trouble in

1119
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:52,119
your relationship.

1120
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, you're listening to the voice of reason.

1121
01:05:54,599 --> 01:05:58,920
That is the voice of my friend, doctor Alan Berger.

1122
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,559
Speaker 3: He's been on complete fired the entire two hours and

1123
01:06:02,639 --> 01:06:03,480
it's almost over.

1124
01:06:03,559 --> 01:06:08,679
Speaker 2: When we come forward, Eh, we're about to land this plane.

1125
01:06:08,719 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 13: Everyone is in the middle of a life story, and

1126
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,039
your story is being shaped by what you were saying

1127
01:06:16,119 --> 01:06:19,679
yes too, and what you were saying no to your

1128
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,960
yeses and nos, or what boundaries are made of? So

1129
01:06:24,119 --> 01:06:28,840
what are boundaries? How do we build them? How do

1130
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:33,239
we heal when our boundaries are violated? And how do

1131
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:37,719
we push through boundaries? These questions have been the center

1132
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:40,639
of my life and my work. When I was a

1133
01:06:40,679 --> 01:06:43,840
little kid and my world was just my family, I

1134
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,639
was pretty sure we were the only one struggling with

1135
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:50,360
those questions. And then I grew up and I became

1136
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,440
a family therapist, and I saw lots of people struggling

1137
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,639
with these questions. And when I took a detour and

1138
01:06:57,719 --> 01:07:04,639
ran nonprofits, I saw communities and leaders struggling with these questions.

1139
01:07:05,519 --> 01:07:08,400
So now I teach workshops and wrote a book to

1140
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:12,880
help people answer these questions. And as people answer these

1141
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:17,199
questions and learn more about their boundaries, I've watched hundreds

1142
01:07:17,239 --> 01:07:21,280
of people make the journey from being overwhelmed and exhausted

1143
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:25,599
and stressed out to people who trust themselves and are

1144
01:07:25,719 --> 01:07:29,639
decisive and are committed to healthy relationships.

1145
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 2: Andy, who is that? Gil Sary Gilman? Love it? I

1146
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:42,000
love it, I love it, I love it. She was

1147
01:07:42,039 --> 01:07:44,920
cooking with the rarest grease. Ladies and gentlemen. You're listening

1148
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,960
to the Voice of Reason on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty,

1149
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:52,320
the most radical relationship show in the world where you

1150
01:07:52,599 --> 01:08:00,519
will get perspectivity. Ah, we have to get differentsus perspectives

1151
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:02,559
in here, and I love it. I brought my good

1152
01:08:02,599 --> 01:08:08,559
friend doctor Alan Berger, author of Emotional Sobriety, among many

1153
01:08:08,599 --> 01:08:12,480
other titles, over forty years of experience.

1154
01:08:12,519 --> 01:08:18,319
Speaker 4: What you said fifty fifty fifty years, fifty three years, Yeah,

1155
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:22,720
that That was SUSI on the Berlin group. I volunteered

1156
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:26,079
to go into that group and help. It's a European

1157
01:08:26,119 --> 01:08:29,079
group and they get almost three hundred people when I'm

1158
01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:32,399
there once a month, and we talk about emotional sobriety.

1159
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,439
But you know, let me respond to what she was saying,

1160
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:39,760
because there's so much wisdom. I would zoom out a

1161
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,279
little further and say, your yes is and no to

1162
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:49,560
find who you are, not your boundaries. They define yourself similar. Well, see,

1163
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,800
that's the important thing we're talking about. How do you

1164
01:08:53,079 --> 01:08:55,920
what is our self? Well, yourself is what you say

1165
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:59,319
yes to and what you say no to. And if

1166
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,439
you can I can't say a real no. You can't

1167
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:07,319
say a real yes. It just doesn't happen if you

1168
01:09:07,399 --> 01:09:09,880
can't say a true yes. And that's why I say

1169
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:13,399
when I cooperate with someone, it's because I want to.

1170
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,359
That's a real yes. And if I don't want to,

1171
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,079
I own that. But now let's integrate what I said

1172
01:09:19,079 --> 01:09:22,239
earlier about respecting the we and me and the eye.

1173
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,520
So let's say you say, hey, Allan, would you mind

1174
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:27,960
meeting me down at the corner. I got some stuff

1175
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:29,680
I got to move out of my place and stuff

1176
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:32,119
like that. My other buddy couldn't show up. Can you

1177
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,720
make it over? And let's say. My first response is

1178
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:37,640
I'd love to help you because I love you. I

1179
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,680
want to do something for you. I want to cooperate

1180
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:42,199
with you, but I'm jammed up. I got something else

1181
01:09:42,239 --> 01:09:45,159
going now. I could say yes and go and do it,

1182
01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:48,439
and then at the same time feel the no because

1183
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:50,760
I don't trust. If I said no to you, you'd

1184
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:51,199
still be.

1185
01:09:51,199 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 2: My friend A performative.

1186
01:09:53,039 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 4: Yes, that's right, and then it's not a real deal.

1187
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:00,239
I am doing what I'm supposed to do, not what

1188
01:10:00,319 --> 01:10:02,720
I want to do. So if I said to you so,

1189
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:05,920
I really I love you, man, I would help you

1190
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:09,199
in a minute. And this is also going on. Check

1191
01:10:09,239 --> 01:10:11,359
it out, see if you can find anybody else. If not,

1192
01:10:11,399 --> 01:10:13,279
call me, then I'll see what I can do to change.

1193
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:18,840
So I try to respect you and me at the

1194
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:24,520
same time. Yes, that is cooperating with integrity, Yes, and

1195
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:26,399
I want to do that because I love you. But

1196
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,359
I also want to do what I need to do

1197
01:10:29,399 --> 01:10:31,560
and what I want to do. So I'm trying to

1198
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,920
find a way to make those both possible.

1199
01:10:34,119 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 2: And what you just did was illustrate what a healthy

1200
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:38,520
boundary looks like.

1201
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,279
Speaker 4: And I'm being myself. See, I am showing you this

1202
01:10:42,319 --> 01:10:44,600
is Alan, this is who I am. I'm the I

1203
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:47,119
and I'm the Wei, and I'm bringing both of them

1204
01:10:47,119 --> 01:10:47,359
to you.

1205
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:51,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, you protected both the friend and yourself. You got

1206
01:10:51,079 --> 01:10:52,279
it in that response.

1207
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:55,680
Speaker 4: The biggest thing that we learn in emotional sobriety. And

1208
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:58,439
I'll say this and then we can think about it.

1209
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:02,600
From this book, there's twodelines here for emotional sobriety. They're

1210
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:07,600
not shoulds, they're guidelines. They're suggestions to learn to act

1211
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,880
for yourself without being selfish. I'll say that again. Learn

1212
01:11:12,239 --> 01:11:16,439
to act for yourself without being selfish, and learn to

1213
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:22,800
act for others without losing yourself. Act for yourself without

1214
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:28,399
being selfish, act for others without losing yourself. If you

1215
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:30,800
can pull that off, you're going to be growing up.

1216
01:11:31,279 --> 01:11:33,439
Come on, that's what a grown up that.

1217
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 2: Hey. Hey, okay, so Alan, I want all my people

1218
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:42,800
to support your work. Go get your books. I know

1219
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:46,319
you have a website, I know you have lectures and

1220
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,560
your big time. You're like fortune five hundred, not yet,

1221
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:55,399
but teaching countries how to come together and be emotionally sober.

1222
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:57,439
Talk to me, man, what do you have going in?

1223
01:11:57,479 --> 01:11:58,600
How can people support you?

1224
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 4: My recent book that I feel really good about it.

1225
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:08,399
It's called Twelve Insights for Emotional Sobriety, and that is

1226
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:12,199
a deep dive into emotional sobriety. That book is being

1227
01:12:12,319 --> 01:12:15,960
used all over the United States and treatment programs in

1228
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:21,439
Europe and Canada, in South America. I mean, it's really

1229
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,560
taken off and it's given people a new vision of

1230
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,039
what's possible, not only for those that are in recovery,

1231
01:12:28,039 --> 01:12:30,359
but those people that are just trying to live a

1232
01:12:30,359 --> 01:12:33,520
better life. So check the book out. It's on Amazon.

1233
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:36,079
But look, I'm not here just to promote my book.

1234
01:12:36,079 --> 01:12:37,840
And there's a lot of things I do that I'm

1235
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,319
sorry that are open source that I don't get any

1236
01:12:40,319 --> 01:12:44,560
money from. I have a YouTube channel called Optimal Sobriety.

1237
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,479
Optimal Recovery and Emotional Sobriety is what the name of

1238
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:51,640
the channel is. There's over two hundred videos from Thursday Night,

1239
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:54,520
which is a free workshop I've been doing for five

1240
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:57,319
years right now. I've been in there before, you've been

1241
01:12:57,319 --> 01:13:01,159
in there. If you go to Emotional Sobriety Info, if

1242
01:13:01,199 --> 01:13:03,359
you look up that. You go to that website, you

1243
01:13:03,359 --> 01:13:05,319
will get the link for that Thursday night meeting. Come

1244
01:13:05,359 --> 01:13:07,880
and join us, become a part of that. It's nine

1245
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:11,560
pm Eastern time every Thursday night. I'm not there tonight

1246
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:15,880
because I'm with you, but they're posted, they're watching, they

1247
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:19,479
heard about us. So check that stuff out on that website.

1248
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,399
You'll see all the different speaking engagements. I'm gonna be

1249
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,079
up at the Wilson House doing a retreat on relationships.

1250
01:13:25,359 --> 01:13:27,560
I'm gonna be doing a bunch of different stuff that's

1251
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,840
coming up. So you know, if you got excited by

1252
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,600
anything I'm saying tonight, come and learn more about it.

1253
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 2: Now watch this. Doctor Berger is loved and revered and

1254
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:44,359
respected and has an international following. Zoe Williams does not.

1255
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:48,039
So if you come in here and say bring some

1256
01:13:48,119 --> 01:13:51,479
black voices on, I'm gonna say, did you buy my book?

1257
01:13:52,239 --> 01:13:57,840
Did you support me? Doctor Berger is supported by his folk.

1258
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,039
But if you got criticism for Zoe and you haven't

1259
01:14:02,079 --> 01:14:06,199
supported Zoe and doctor Berger is here in support of

1260
01:14:06,279 --> 01:14:09,680
Zoe because Zoe is doing real work.

1261
01:14:10,119 --> 01:14:13,600
Speaker 3: Then what are you talking about. You're part of the problem.

1262
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,840
Come on, Tony, Tony, get in here. Where are you

1263
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:20,279
at Tony. I'm gonna see you at the cigar Land.

1264
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:22,439
I got words, are you Tony?

1265
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:23,520
Speaker 6: He's gonna.

1266
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:25,279
Speaker 3: Listen.

1267
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:29,079
Speaker 2: We start the conversation, it's up to you to finish it.

1268
01:14:29,239 --> 01:14:30,760
Zoe Williams the voice of reason.

1269
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,199
Speaker 3: We always on fire. I'll be back next week with

1270
01:14:33,279 --> 01:14:34,119
four slappers.

1271
01:14:34,159 --> 01:14:34,600
Speaker 4: That's right,