WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.359 Podzive America is brought to you by simply Safe. There's 2 00:00:02.359 --> 00:00:04.759 a line between home security and turning your neighborhood into 3 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:06.960 a surveillance state. I want to know who's at my door, 4 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:09.679 not track every passer by walking their dog on the sidewalk. 5 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:12.119 Simply Safe respects that balance. It's why I trust them 6 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:14.400 with my home. John Lovet set up a simply Safe 7 00:00:14.439 --> 00:00:16.839 all by himself, as you all know by now, and 8 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:18.879 it was very easy. He can use it from his 9 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:21.879 phone and is really happy with the whole system. With 10 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:24.359 simply Safe, you can customize your system to fit your needs, 11 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:27.320 then ships fast directly to your door. The app guided 12 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:29.640 setup is simple and there's no drilling required, so you 13 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:32.079 can install and arm your system in under an hour. 14 00:00:32.359 --> 00:00:34.359 Simply Safe is more than just a security camera. It's 15 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:37.119 a comprehensive system of sensors, indoor and outdoor cameras, and 16 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:39.719 twenty four to seven professional monitoring. In the event of 17 00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:42.359 an emergency, Simply saves twenty four to seven professional monitoring 18 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:45.159 agents will dispatch help when you need it. Over five 19 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:47.399 million people value and trust simply Safe with their home 20 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:50.320 security every day. Right now, our listeners will get fifty 21 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:52.200 percent off a new system when you sign up for 22 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:55.600 professional monitoring and your first month is free. Just visit 23 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:58.159 simply safe dot com slash criokeet. That's half off at 24 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:01.039 simply safe dot com slash crooked. There's no safe like 25 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:28.319 simply safe. Welcome to Plate America. I'm Jon Favreau on 26 00:01:28.359 --> 00:01:31.920 today's show my good friend and fellow speechwriter for Barack Obama, 27 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:35.840 Ben Rhodes. America's two hundred and fiftieth birthday has been 28 00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:38.640 on my mind a lot lately, especially since Donald Trump 29 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:43.079 seems intent on making the country's semi quincentennial all about himself, 30 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:46.959 his parties, his name on everything, his guests, and his 31 00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:50.439 version of the American story. But of course there's another 32 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:53.040 version of our story that resonates with at least half 33 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.799 of us, likely more at the very least. Americans have 34 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:59.640 been engaged in an argument about what this country is 35 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:03.040 and who belongs since we declared independence two and a 36 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:07.959 half centuries ago. Ben has written an incredible timely book 37 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:11.840 about that argument. Truly, it's fantastic. I read the whole 38 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:13.800 thing in about a day, and you all know what 39 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.759 a big reader I am these days, So that's saying something. 40 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:19.520 The book is called All We Say, a History of 41 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.080 the United States in fifteen speeches. In it, Ben traces 42 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:25.159 the history of America through some of the nation's most 43 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:29.199 consequential speeches, from a long forgotten speech from a Native 44 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:32.599 American chief and Lincoln's second inaugural to I Have a Dream, 45 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:35.599 and speeches from Barack Obama and even Donald Trump. It's 46 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:38.039 a beautiful book about the ways in which, in the 47 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:41.120 words of our old boss, this union may never be perfect, 48 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:45.560 but generation after generation shows it can always be perfected. 49 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:48.439 Ben and I were psyched to have this conversation, both 50 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:50.680 because we get to nerd out as former speech writers 51 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:52.960 and dig into what the two of us talk about 52 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:55.080 when we're not in front of a mic, how those 53 00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:57.120 of us who don't love being governed by Donald Trump 54 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.080 can win the argument about what this country is and 55 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.479 where it needs to go, about how we close the 56 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:08.039 gap between America's best ideals and our current fairly bleak reality. 57 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:10.280 It was a great conversation and we'll get to it 58 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:12.759 in a minute, but before we do, please consider becoming 59 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:15.479 a Cricket Media subscriber if you haven't already, so that 60 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:17.439 you don't miss out on any of the great content 61 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:20.280 we're putting out for our friends at the pod subscribers 62 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:24.240 get ad free episodes of all your favorite podcasts, including 63 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:26.960 this one. You also get our extra new episode of 64 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.599 pod Save America called Podsave America Only Friends, other subscriber 65 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:33.599 only shows like Polar Coaster with Dan Pfeiffer, access to 66 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:37.280 all of our excellent substack newsletters like Podsave America open tabs, 67 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:39.479 and you get to feel good about supporting one of 68 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:43.319 the few independent, proudly pro democracy media outlets left in 69 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:47.000 Trump's America. So head to cricket dot com slash friends 70 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:50.639 and please subscribe. Let's get to it. Here's Ben Rhodes. 71 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:55.439 What's up, Ben, John. 72 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:58.439 This is the interview I was looking forward to since 73 00:03:58.439 --> 00:03:59.199 I finished my book. 74 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:00.960 I have to tell you, honestly, I was going to say, 75 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.199 I love when we have an excuse to pod together, 76 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:06.800 especially this time because you wrote a book about speeches, 77 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:09.680 which is perfect for the two of us. For people 78 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:12.199 who don't know, I know a lot of you probably do. 79 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:14.520 But Ben and I wrote speeches for six years together, 80 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:19.000 sometimes quite literally together, like side by side with our 81 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.839 laptops open till three am. But this is also a 82 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:25.519 book about American identity and an argument over the American 83 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:28.040 story that's been raging for two hundred and fifty years, 84 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:31.199 which has also become an obsession of mine as of flate. 85 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:33.959 But I want to start with something you wrote about 86 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:37.199 the book, and you wrote that it's the third in 87 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:40.279 a trilogy that started with your memoir, then your book 88 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.720 about authoritarianism, and now this, and that finishing this one 89 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.000 means you're ready to let go of your past identities 90 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:49.279 as a White House staffer, foreign policy advisor, and speech writer. 91 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:51.480 Say more about that. Why you're letting go. 92 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:57.680 I actually really thought about this, John, because I wrote 93 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:01.040 my memoir, which was a very kind of raw experience, right. 94 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:03.319 It was like I didn't digest it at all. I 95 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:05.920 wrote that in a year that came in twenty eighteen. 96 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:09.839 Then I very much for my last book was in 97 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:14.879 my kind of foreign policy global politics pod Save the World, 98 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:18.759 if you will self in terms of traveling around and 99 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:23.040 understanding what had happened in Russia and China and Hungary 100 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:29.720 under Victor orbon and I was literally using the experiences, contacts, 101 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:34.040 networks I had from being in that world. And then 102 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:38.199 this one is entirely I wanted to go back into 103 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:42.439 history because I had a sense that I could find 104 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:46.199 a lot there that you could understand this argument that 105 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:49.639 we're having now by tracing it back from the beginning. 106 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:54.160 And frankly, my original conceit was Obama and Trump kind 107 00:05:54.160 --> 00:06:00.160 of encapsulate represent two different opposing stories that we've had 108 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:02.920 throughout our history and competition with each other. And I'm 109 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:05.920 not in his Storian. And so the vehicle I knew 110 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:09.879 that I would choose is speeches. And I found myself 111 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:12.160 kind of returning to that core identity, that guy who 112 00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:15.920 showed up in the Obama campaign office when you know 113 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:19.120 you were the chief speechwriter. You're my boss. I remember 114 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:23.560 walking in from my Think ten culture in DC, and wow, 115 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:25.600 my boss is wearing a T shirt, you know, like 116 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:26.839 like this is a different vibe. 117 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:29.240 You know, we're in a T shirt and he doesn't 118 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:31.600 know shit about foreign policy up here. 119 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:35.199 Yeah, but I see this actually seriously to you, like, 120 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:37.600 because you know you've been through this, you kind of 121 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:41.040 don't want to go through life as like Jon Favreau 122 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:44.360 or Ben Rhodes's comma former Obama X. You know. Yeah, 123 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:48.120 And I kind of feel like I've mined it now, 124 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.199 you like I've done this is not a memoir at all, 125 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.800 but like it drew deeply on all the things we 126 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:59.920 did in speech writing, and so I felt like but 127 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.800 kind of more fundamentally and existentially to I think I 128 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:09.720 finally came to terms with how it all ended, you know, 129 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:13.120 in the sense that Trump was this kind of rebuke 130 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:16.079 of the inevitability of progress, right of the arc of 131 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:18.920 the moral universe bending towards justice kind of on its own, 132 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:24.759 if you will. And I think reliving all of American 133 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:28.959 history kind of allowed me to situate our experience in 134 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:33.160 a continuum where it's actually not that unusual that this happened. 135 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:38.639 You know, reconstruction was followed by segregation. You know, civil 136 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:41.800 rights movement was followed by backlash. So for all those reasons, 137 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:43.800 I really did internally like you have to trick your 138 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:45.759 you know, as a writer, and you are a writer, 139 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:50.079 you know, you have to kind of tell yourself a story. 140 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.319 And my story was this is the third the trilogy. 141 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:59.199 It kind of completes both my various Obama identities and 142 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:02.279 kind of, you know, is me coming to terms with 143 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.120 how our chapter ended, and yeah, now I can move on, 144 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:08.759 see what happens next. 145 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.920 So I read the book, I started it Sunday night 146 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:13.839 and we got back from Love It's Wedding, and then 147 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:17.519 I read most of it yesterday and last night. We're 148 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:20.800 recording this on Tuesday. You're listening to it probably on Sunday. 149 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.639 First of all, I absolutely fucking loved the book. It 150 00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:27.720 is incredible. Everyone should read it. I also it did 151 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:33.399 give me this sense of hope and also peace, like 152 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:34.960 you say, you came to terms with it, sort of 153 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:38.440 peace about like the last ten years and where it fits. Yes, 154 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:42.840 because you read when it's the speeches you selected were 155 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:47.759 specifically selected because they each tell a story about American 156 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:51.600 identity and this argument over what America is that we've 157 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:54.919 been having since the founding. And when you lay it 158 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:57.399 all out like that, along with the different characters, you 159 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:01.559 really do get this sense that we have been here before, 160 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:06.879 and people in these moments have been able to, you know, 161 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.320 speak and march and fight their way out of these moments. 162 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:14.720 And I don't think it's it's not Pollyannish at all, 163 00:09:14.759 --> 00:09:17.440 but it's sort of like a hard earned hope that 164 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:20.440 you get from reading it. But I thought it's outstanding. 165 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:24.720 You open the Book of all People. JD. Vance and 166 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:29.440 his speech last summer at Claremont about American identity, which 167 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:33.240 listeners to this show and especially offline, know that I 168 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:36.559 can't stop talking about. Austin is nodding his head very 169 00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:39.360 knowingly right now. I think you and I had a 170 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.600 few conversations about this, about the JD. Vance speech when 171 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:45.120 you were thinking about opening the book with it. What 172 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:48.519 made you finally decide that Vance's speech was the way 173 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:52.159 into a book about two hundred and fifty years of 174 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:53.200 American identity. 175 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:57.080 So a prologue for a book is a fascinating thing 176 00:09:57.200 --> 00:10:02.679 because you kind of have to telegraph your argument. You know, 177 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:06.519 the book starts in real time with Benjamin Franklin, which 178 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:09.279 we can get to, but I don't want to drop 179 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:11.399 people in there, you know. I wanted to give people 180 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:13.360 a sense of kind of what the argument of the 181 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:17.559 book is. And I always had in mind when I 182 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:21.120 was literally selecting these speeches, which was an interesting process, 183 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:27.000 and as I was writing a chapter after chapter that 184 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:32.600 if you really distill it down, there are two stories 185 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.720 of what American identity is, you know, with obviously their 186 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:40.679 permutations are not all exactly the same, but I think 187 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:43.879 you can simplify and say there is one story that 188 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:48.840 is a nationality of inheritance that you know, you can 189 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.799 call it originalism, you can call it blood and seol nationalism, 190 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:57.840 but essentially, this was a white Christian nation founded by 191 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.360 a particular set of people, the particular set of beliefs. 192 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:07.000 And now I'm literally quoting jade Evan's and it's the 193 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:11.519 inheritor of kind of Western civilization. Sometimes that's Western supremacy. 194 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:17.080 And sure other people live here of different races and ethnicities, 195 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:21.240 but they kind of have to subordinate themselves to this 196 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:25.919 original identity. And American exceptionalism is just a given, like 197 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:29.559 we are exceptional because we're American. We are the city 198 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.000 on a hill, we're in some ways God's chosen people. 199 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:34.000 We can do whatever we want to the people in 200 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.960 this country, whether they're Native Americans or black people or immigrants, 201 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:40.399 and we can do whatever we want to other countries. Right, 202 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.000 And again I'm casting it negatively, but I frankly think 203 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:45.720 that that at a core, that that is a strain 204 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:49.639 that runs through American history. And then the opposing story 205 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.799 is one of progressive nationalism, that we've never lived up 206 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:56.799 to the creed in the Declaration of Independence that all 207 00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:59.440 men are created equal and that American history is a 208 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:01.679 story of peace, people trying to change the country for 209 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.080 the better, trying to make a more perfect union, to 210 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:08.159 use a phrase, and that's how you get the abolitionist 211 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:11.759 movement and the suffrage movement, in the civil rights movement, 212 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:16.240 and the labor rights movement, all these things. JD. Vance 213 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.879 comes along and decides to tell the first version of 214 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:26.000 the story for me because that speech is literally yeah, 215 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:27.440 I mean, when I knew I was going to use 216 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:30.639 it is when he said we are not a nation 217 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:34.080 founded on a creed, and he name checks the Declaration 218 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:36.320 of Independence and the idea that all men are created equal. 219 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:39.960 He says, no, that is not American identity. We are 220 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.320 a particular people from a particular place, with a particular 221 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:48.080 way of life. And he said the quiet part out loud. 222 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:51.799 Now he didn't say white, but you know what particular people? 223 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:52.399 You know? 224 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:55.399 Do we think he's talking about? And he has this 225 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:57.480 kind of logic way where, well, who could argue with 226 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:00.320 us being a particular place and a particular people. I 227 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:03.559 can argue with it because we were thirteen states at 228 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:07.840 the beginning on the northeast coast. We weren't. Our geography 229 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:10.919 is wildly different today, the people in this country today 230 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.840 don't look at anything like the people in those thirteen states, 231 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.039 and the way of life I mean, walk down the 232 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:19.919 street in my neighbor in Venice. There's a ton of 233 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:22.759 ways of life there, right, And so I actually think 234 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:28.240 that JD did the service of framing the other story 235 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.679 for me, and so I literally opened with it. 236 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:34.559 You mentioned that, and then other people have to be 237 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:38.840 subordinate to sort of this white Christian identity. And I've 238 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:41.039 heard people say, and I've talked to people about this 239 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.799 that JD. Vance when he spouts this like anti immigrant 240 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:49.360 xenophobic rhetoric is full of shit and doesn't really believe 241 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:52.120 it and couldn't really believe it because his in laws 242 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:55.960 are immigrants from India. His wife is a first generation American. 243 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.720 But there is another possible explanation here you touch on, 244 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:04.080 which is this obsession Vance has and he does it 245 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:05.720 in the speech and we've heard him do it, and 246 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:08.399 he's like mocked for it and other times and other places. 247 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:13.200 With the need for everyone to show gratitude, particularly foreign 248 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:17.360 born American citizens immigrants, that if you're here and we 249 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:21.480 let you come here, then you need to show gratitude 250 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.919 to the people who've been here the longest, or to 251 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:26.840 the or to our ancestors, or to like this way 252 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.320 of life and this culture. And I do think that's 253 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:32.519 how you reconcile, like because if you ask jd Vance 254 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:35.240 he would say, well, I'm for immigration, I'm for you know, 255 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.200 like a diverse country. That's fine. But his problem is 256 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:42.000 that if you haven't, if you don't have seven generations 257 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.200 of ancestors buried in Kentucky, which he said at the 258 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.559 at the Republican National Convention, then you don't get to 259 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:50.679 complain about this country. I mean, is he basically he 260 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:53.919 said that about Mamdani too. Mamdanni had some like Fourth 261 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:56.120 of July message where he was like, yeah, and then 262 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.879 we got to continue to improve this nation and something 263 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.799 very mild about perfecting or improving the nation. And jadvancel 264 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.679 was like, how could he do that? We let him 265 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.360 in here and blubb blah, it's like really fucking crazy. 266 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.559 Yeah, if you believe that, because he said that, you 267 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.240 have to show gratitude in that speech. And I posed 268 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.879 a question in the Pearlog gratitude to whom who were 269 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:18.120 we for? 270 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:19.960 What? Who were everyone for? 271 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:25.159 These people? Yeah? Because actually immigration was a much bigger 272 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.639 theme than I actually expected it would be in this book, 273 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:32.919 because you keep bumping into that. And you know, Benjamin Franklin, 274 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.120 his father was an immigrant. You know, he left religious 275 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:42.360 persecution behind as well as seeking economic opportunity. And then 276 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.480 you run through the other people in this book. You know, 277 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:49.879 Lewis Brandeis was a Jewish immigrant who left anti Semitism 278 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:54.000 behind in Europe. Mary Leesee, a populist, was a poor 279 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:57.120 came from a poor Irish family that fled, you know, 280 00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:01.200 the oppression of the British, you know, and you know, 281 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:05.720 obviously you get up to the twentieth century. Interestingly, Dolores 282 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.639 Squerta comes from a family and this is something people 283 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.639 don't think about enough. John A part of her family 284 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.720 weren't immigrants. That border just got redrawn and brought them 285 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:17.919 into the United States. There are a lot of brown 286 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:21.879 people in this country that were here before a lot 287 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:25.759 of white people, and we just you know, expanded and 288 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:28.559 redrew the border around places like you know, New Mexico 289 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:32.320 for instance, and and and fundamentally it comes down to 290 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:37.440 the question of do you believe that someone Zoormumdani, for example, 291 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:41.960 is as American as someone whose family's been here for 292 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:45.960 seven generations, right, I genuinely do. Yeah, and I'm not. 293 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:49.360 That's not a virtue signal, that's just a how can 294 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:51.080 citizenship not be equal? 295 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:51.279 Like? 296 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:54.200 How can some people be more American than other people? 297 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:54.360 Like? 298 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:58.600 We are supposed to be a nation anchored in laws, 299 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:03.039 the Constitution and a creed, the Declaration of Independence, which 300 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:06.200 suggests not that we should have open borders, which is 301 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.319 how Jdvans kind of shorthands it. He says, well, if 302 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:10.640 everybody who believes in the Declaration in Dedependence is American, 303 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.000 and then we'd have billions. 304 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:13.640 Of don't we have to admit them all? No, we don't. 305 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:14.039 That's not what. 306 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:18.519 We can have a border, and we can seal that 307 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:20.519 border at times for you know, I mean I don't 308 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:22.559 necessarily agree with that, but we can by a matter 309 00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:26.319 of policy. But the people who are American are American, 310 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:31.440 and they're equally American. And frankly, the thing we should 311 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:36.880 be grateful for is that we're a nation that is 312 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.599 able to have all these different people come here and 313 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.359 enrich this country. I mean, how boring would this country 314 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:47.039 be it was just comprised of people like JD. Vance, 315 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.799 you know, like like I I just I think fundamentally 316 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:59.160 I felt myself because you kept encountering you know, people 317 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:01.000 didn't like the Irish when they came here. People didn't 318 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:03.880 like Chinese people when they came here, like people some 319 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:05.839 people have never liked black people being here, even though 320 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:09.079 they were brought here mostly against their will, like the 321 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.960 people didn't like Jewish people when they came here. And 322 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.640 guess what you've rolled the tape forward? Does anybody think 323 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:19.039 that this nation is not better for having Chinese Americans 324 00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:21.519 and Jewish Americans and Irish Americans. No, I don't think 325 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:23.839 even Jade Vance would would make that argument. So what 326 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:25.200 are we really talking about here? 327 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.680 And it's been said many times by many people, But 328 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.279 that is what that the core of American exceptionalism is 329 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:34.240 all about, which is we can't we can go live 330 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:38.000 in Germany and live in Japan. We can't become German 331 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.240 or become Japanese, but anyone can come to America and 332 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:45.519 become American and like that. That is a very that 333 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:50.039 is a unique exceptional quality of America, and that is 334 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:50.720 the experiment. 335 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:55.240 I think we're also different because we were founded by 336 00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.559 people who immigrated here, like we were founded, not by 337 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:02.359 the indigenous people here, and I think that that does 338 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:08.519 kind of create an additional legitimacy for the idea that 339 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:12.920 if this is not a nation of Indigenous Americans, then 340 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.920 it is by definition a nation of people who have 341 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:21.599 chosen an identity and set up a government that could be, 342 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:27.119 you know, flexible enough to absorb different people. You know, 343 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.759 a lot of the speeches that spoke about the virtue 344 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:34.240 of immigration, Frederick Douglas, Lewis Brandeis, they talked about the 345 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:38.720 fact that the decision to come to America is like 346 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:42.000 the first step in becoming American, Like that's a strive 347 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.839 And again there's an inherent striving in that. You know, 348 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.079 I want a better life. I want to be a 349 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:50.079 part of something different. I want to be a part 350 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:52.079 of this project. I want to sign up for this 351 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.000 creed And yeah, you have to go through the process. Again, 352 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:58.240 not the JD. Van saying to let everybody in, but 353 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:03.880 that idea of striving self improvement type people is kind 354 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.559 of is ingrained in American identity and is something to 355 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:11.160 defend at a time when with ice, you know, we're 356 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.000 seeking to kind of push that out. 357 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.000 Pod Save America is brought to you by Bombas spring 358 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:24.839 is here, the weather is warming, the days are longer. 359 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:28.839 We're saying yes to more plans and finally getting outside, running, hiking, 360 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.240 just moving again. It's the perfect time to upgrade your 361 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:35.079 everyday go to footwear with Bombas. Bomba Sports socks are 362 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.759 super comfortable and designed with sports specific tech for running, cycling, yoga, hiking, 363 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:45.119 you name it, Love Bomba socks. Have Bomba socks at home, sodaes, Emily, Soda, 364 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.759 the kids, the whole family has Bomba socks. They're super comfy, 365 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:50.160 they look cool. You can get them as designed as 366 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:52.880 you want, or you can get them plain and we 367 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.079 love them. We have forever. Bombas are cushioned where you 368 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.000 need it, sweat wicking, and they don't slide around so 369 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.319 you're not constantly adjusting your socks. And with the weather up, 370 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:02.799 it's time to add Bombas sandals into your footwear rotation. 371 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:05.119 I could really use some sandals. Their Friday slides are 372 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:08.000 made with the super lightweight and waterproof EVA that's soft 373 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:10.759 but still supportive. They're super comfortable and perfect to just 374 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.640 slip on and go, whether you're running errands, lounging outdoors, 375 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:16.200 or just want something comfy and casual. To wear and 376 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:19.640 going online to bombas to buy some of these sandals today. 377 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:22.200 And for every item you purchase, an essential clothing item 378 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.240 is donated to someone facing housing and security. One purchased 379 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:28.160 one donated with over one hundred and fifty million donations 380 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:30.680 and counting. Head over to bombas dot com slash crooked 381 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:32.960 and use code crooked for twenty percent off your first purchase. 382 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:37.400 That's bombas dot com slash crooked code crooked at checkout. 383 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.640 Potze America is brought to you by Smalls. Smalls makes fresh, 384 00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:42.960 human grade food for cats. It's made from the same 385 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.720 stuff you or I would eat, but formulated specifically to 386 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:49.160 help cats thrive. Cats are obligate carnivores who need lots 387 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:51.359 of real meat to stay healthy. But most cat foods 388 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:53.319 out there use meat by products and cut their food 389 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:57.039 with cheap grains, fillers, and artificial ingredients. Basically, it's full 390 00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.079 of stuff that isn't great for your cat, just so 391 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:01.640 the big pet food companies can save a couple dollars. 392 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.000 Smalls is different. Their fresh recipes are over eighty percent 393 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.440 animal protein and they never use fillers or artificial ingredients. 394 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.599 Their food is so healthy that eighty eight percent of 395 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.240 cat parents say that after feeding Smalls, they notice that 396 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:16.359 their cat has better digestion, is softer and shinier, it 397 00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:20.119 has more energy to play because it's actually good for cats. 398 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.519 If you want to invest in your cat's health, Smalls 399 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:24.759 is giving you sixty percent off your cat's first order, 400 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.359 plus free shipping and free treats for life when you 401 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:29.599