Speaker 1: Okay, we are a live Hi. This is William Ramsey.
Speaker 1: Welcome to William Ramsey Investigates On today's show. I have
Speaker 1: a new guest and a returning guest. If you listen
Speaker 1: to my show, we'll know the name Adam go rightly.
Speaker 1: I've had him on. It was amazing. It's four years
Speaker 1: ago for an excellent book that I read four years
Speaker 1: ago over COVID and that book that we discussed with Saucers,
Speaker 1: Spooks and Kook's UFO Disinformation in the Age of Aquarius.
Speaker 1: Excellent book has great reviews. But it came to my
Speaker 1: attention that they also did a documentary. I wasn't aware
Speaker 1: of it. I'm busy with other stuff things, but a documentary.
Speaker 1: You'll see the cover poster. If you're watching this on
Speaker 1: one of my three YouTube channels, x or Rumble or Rockfan,
Speaker 1: you'll see the kind of poster for it. I think
Speaker 1: it has a lot of interesting characters in here. See
Speaker 1: the poster for the Saucers, Spooks and Cooks documentary which
Speaker 1: was released January twenty second. So I will put a
Speaker 1: link to the documentary. It is only at one specific site,
Speaker 1: which is the full name of the documentary dot VHX
Speaker 1: dot TV. So go check it out there and support
Speaker 1: your independent filmmakers and creative people like that. Well, Adam
Speaker 1: has a long history. He was on with Visigothia sadly
Speaker 1: passed away last year in January, and published a couple
Speaker 1: of the old interviews he did with visigoth I think
Speaker 1: on the Grassy Novel or Beyond the Grassy Nool. So
Speaker 1: he's written many, many books in addition to Saucers Books
Speaker 1: and kooks. One that I have an actual manual copy
Speaker 1: which I read which was great too, is The Shadow
Speaker 1: Over Santa Susannah, Black Magic, Mind Control and the Manson
Speaker 1: Family Family Mythos, So check that out. I also, I
Speaker 1: think the one that I posted, the interview that's on
Speaker 1: William Ramby Investigates, is about I think Carrie Thornley, or no,
Speaker 1: it is King Kill thirty three, I think. But this
Speaker 1: book is caught in the crossfier carry Thornley, Oswald and
Speaker 1: the Garrison investigation. There's also the Prankster in the Conspiracy.
Speaker 1: That's the one that I posted story of Carrie Thornley
Speaker 1: and how I met Oswald and inspired the counterculture, which
Speaker 1: Carrie Thornley's story really is unbelievable but real. Another of
Speaker 1: his books is Happy Trails to High Weirdness, A Conspiracy
Speaker 1: Theorists Tour God. The best event of Go Rightley, Who's
Speaker 1: who in the Manson family is for a Damski The
Speaker 1: Golden Age of the UNIFO Contact. So it's had a
Speaker 1: lot of great books, So go check out Adam go Rightly.
Speaker 1: But the new guest is Chris Graybill, who was involved
Speaker 1: in the making of this documentary. I've been speaking all day,
Speaker 1: I've been streaming all day, so I'm kind of tired,
Speaker 1: but it really is the right time to do this.
Speaker 1: So thanks everybody for showing up, and thank you Adam,
Speaker 1: go Ridley and Chris Graybill for joining us. Thanks for
Speaker 1: being on the show.
Speaker 2: Thanks William. Yeah, I didn't realize that it had been four years.
Speaker 2: Seem that long that Yeah, thanks for having me on again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me cool.
Speaker 1: So for people haven't heard Adam or Chris, maybe you
Speaker 1: guys can talk Adam about your book Sastres, Boots and
Speaker 1: Cooks and then what led to the creation of this documentary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was twenty twenty one that was published
Speaker 2: and that deals with the whole Paul Benowitz affair that
Speaker 2: I had to do with a disinformation campaign. Have you
Speaker 2: a that was targeted targeted Paul Benowitz and had various
Speaker 2: characters involved in that story. Names your listeners might be
Speaker 2: familiar with the eufologist Bill Moore, the infamous Richard Dodie,
Speaker 2: and Paul cast of characters. But you know the long
Speaker 2: story short. Benowitz, he was a scientist, physicist, operated a
Speaker 2: business that he started in the seventies called Thunder Scientific
Speaker 2: that was located outside of Kirkland Air Force Base in Albuquerque,
Speaker 2: New Mexico. And he had an interest in UFOs and
Speaker 2: started seeing UFOs over Kirtland Air Force Base and that
Speaker 2: kind of started the whole quote unquote Benawitz affair where
Speaker 2: he started filming and photographing these things and they were
Speaker 2: over a sensitive area at Kirkland where they were doing
Speaker 2: at the same time a lot of testing of experimental
Speaker 2: secret aircraft and other gizmos and such. And anyway, Benowitz
Speaker 2: started talking about the strange stuff was seen there and
Speaker 2: contacted the Air Force security folks let them know what
Speaker 2: was going on, what he was seeing, and of course
Speaker 2: they took him in and talked to him and did
Speaker 2: not discourage his belief that what he was seeing was extraterrestrial.
Speaker 2: UFOs in fact went on to encourage those beliefs, and
Speaker 2: you know, according to some of the stories, actually concocted
Speaker 2: fake alien scenarios and different hoax documents to lead him
Speaker 2: further on and ultimately had discredited him. And as I said,
Speaker 2: he was a victim to this disinformation campaign that ultimately
Speaker 2: drove him off the deep end. So that in a
Speaker 2: nutshell is part of the story that I tell in Saucer,
Speaker 2: Spooks and Cooks.
Speaker 1: Right. So that book came out, It's got great reviews.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was fascinating, the whole story of
Speaker 1: Benowitz and this kind of downward spiral that happened in
Speaker 1: twenty one. And then how did this project, the documentary
Speaker 1: come together.
Speaker 3: I read Adam's book after searching around for other, you know,
Speaker 3: like a UFO story, because I wanted to make a
Speaker 3: UFO movie, and a friend recommended me his book and
Speaker 3: I read it and I had just found a whole
Speaker 3: bunch of I was living in Japan at the time,
Speaker 3: and I had just found a whole bunch of knep
Speaker 3: on TV old UFO documentaries from like the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 3: and it had like all of the characters that were
Speaker 3: in the in Adam's book. And then someone turns me
Speaker 3: onto the book and I'm like, oh, this is like
Speaker 3: weird coincidence that it just it kind of mirrored the
Speaker 3: the films that I was watching. So yeah, so I
Speaker 3: was really intrigued, you know, like there I could you know,
Speaker 3: there was a ton of footage for all this stuff.
Speaker 3: And then I was thinking like, well, if I could
Speaker 3: find something new to bring to the table with the beneits,
Speaker 3: you know, like some new footage or something that hasn't
Speaker 3: been found yet. And so I found some audio of
Speaker 3: Benewitz that is in the film, and that kind of
Speaker 3: set me on the course of like, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 3: to make this, And so I reached out to Adam
Speaker 3: and he was he was totally on board, and yeah,
Speaker 3: that kind of was the the.
Speaker 1: Main That's how it started. Right. So of course this
Speaker 1: is in your first project too. You've done other projects
Speaker 1: in the past.
Speaker 3: Right, Oh yeah, I've like worked on like hundreds of
Speaker 3: animated films and I worked on a couple of other documentaries, So.
Speaker 1: So this is you know, this is not your first radio.
Speaker 1: So you guys got together and actually went on site. Correct,
Speaker 1: You guys got out there to New Mexico. Yeah, can
Speaker 1: you talk about that?
Speaker 3: Let's see. So Adam came down to La where we
Speaker 3: filmed Greg Bishop and then that was like super intense
Speaker 3: three hour in the heat with all my lights set up,
Speaker 3: and then we made a road trip out to Dulce.
Speaker 3: On the way to Dulce, we went stopped by Farmington
Speaker 3: where there was a supposed flying saucer crash, but we
Speaker 3: couldn't find anything.
Speaker 2: Supposedly, yeah, supposedly it was according to some sources, uh,
Speaker 2: where the Aztec saucer crashed happened. But you know, the
Speaker 2: more you look into that, there's different peace people who
Speaker 2: wrote books about as tech, and I think the site
Speaker 2: we went to check out was somebody who had written
Speaker 2: a book in the last couple of decades and decided
Speaker 2: just to put his own monument out somewhere. That got
Speaker 2: torn down at some point, So who knows. How did
Speaker 2: you do?
Speaker 1: You guys drive by the ship rock too on the
Speaker 1: way to Farmington, the rock in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: that's good land. I mean that whole northern part of
Speaker 1: New Mexico is.
Speaker 3: He didn't go by a giant crater that was It
Speaker 3: was just massive. That was really fun.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's one right on north of It's called
Speaker 1: ship Rock and it's south south along with that freeway
Speaker 1: there which is five to one five. So if you
Speaker 1: come east west, if you drive east west, you you
Speaker 1: might have seen it if unless you drove at night.
Speaker 3: I think we were taking like we were kind of
Speaker 3: up really northern New Mexico too, so we might have
Speaker 3: been off the beaten path of highways.
Speaker 1: It's a haunted kind of spooky area at times. I
Speaker 1: think that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And we actually went out to uh Dulce
Speaker 2: and you know, took some b roll and uh of
Speaker 2: the actual spot supposedly where the Dulce base is located.
Speaker 2: So we got gotten around quite a bit, uh two
Speaker 2: different sites. And you can see that on the substack.
Speaker 2: Chris is starting to post some stuff that didn't make
Speaker 2: it into the film. That's kind of the design behind
Speaker 2: the substack. We started and we also started a podcast,
Speaker 2: and I think Chris posted the first episode today.
Speaker 1: So what's the title of the podcast, same.
Speaker 2: Title podcast, And the design behind it is. We filmed
Speaker 2: a lot, We interviewed a lot of a lot of
Speaker 2: people and of course, a lot went onto the cutting
Speaker 2: room floor because we just ultimately didn't have room for it.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So it's already two hours, right, so it's a fair right.
Speaker 3: It is pretty epic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So you know, that's kind of, like I said,
Speaker 4: the design behind this to feature all the other stuff,
Speaker 4: because there's a lot of cool interviews and stuff we
Speaker 4: did that didn't make it into the film, so we'll
Speaker 4: just repurpose those for this podcast.
Speaker 1: Gotcha, So you got more content? That's great, tons of contents.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, go ahead, no, no, please continue.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say when we got to Albuquerque, nor Ohaiakawa,
Speaker 3: who we interviewed for the film, he was really nice
Speaker 3: and like took us all around these different spots in
Speaker 3: New Mexico or in Albuquerque, and he took us by
Speaker 3: the Benowitz House, which I maybe his wife was still
Speaker 3: living there. It's I'm not really quite sure, but that
Speaker 3: was It was funny because it was kind of we
Speaker 3: were not supposed to be there, so I couldn't really
Speaker 3: film too well there, so I did get like some
Speaker 3: stills and a little footage, but that was interesting to
Speaker 3: be at that site, you know. And and right across
Speaker 3: from Kirtland.
Speaker 1: Right the air Force base. So you get a chance
Speaker 1: to go by Zora Ranch. Oh my god, just kidding.
Speaker 1: There might be an active investigation there now. But yeah,
Speaker 1: don't they'll say. For people who don't know, it's right
Speaker 1: at the border of southern Colorado, right right up kind
Speaker 1: of in. It's pretty sparsely populated, right, but benow what's
Speaker 1: lived in Albuquerque? Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yeah, right, as you'll see. Actually, folks will
Speaker 2: go on that our sub stack there you'll see, like
Speaker 2: Chrisma was saying, his townhouse and where he could actually
Speaker 2: look into Kirkland Air Force Base in Monsano Mountain. That's
Speaker 2: where you're seeing all the UFO activity or whatever you've
Speaker 2: seen is most likely experimental aircraft. So I forgot where
Speaker 2: I was going with this. But yeah, he and his
Speaker 2: business Thunder Scientific, was also right at the gate of
Speaker 2: the Kirkland Air Force Base, and his business they you know,
Speaker 2: he was this kind of scientist, physicists, physicists, mad scientist
Speaker 2: guy created different instruments for aircraft, you know, avionics, altimeters,
Speaker 2: that type of stuff. But when he got into the
Speaker 2: whole UFO thing, he started devising all these other instruments
Speaker 2: to pick up what he believed were alien beams and
Speaker 2: signals and all of this type of stuff, when in reality,
Speaker 2: at least according to some sources, what he was picking
Speaker 2: up or different like spice satellites and other things they
Speaker 2: were working on at Kirtland Air Force Base during this period,
Speaker 2: which is why, you know, the government wanted to kind
Speaker 2: of derail what he was seeing or at least confuse
Speaker 2: him and make him believe that they were all this
Speaker 2: stuff he was witnessing was actually alien craft and not
Speaker 2: you know, these like this was the whole period when
Speaker 2: the stillth bomber was being developed and all of this
Speaker 2: other stuff.
Speaker 1: Right, So Kirtland, I believe is where is it located
Speaker 1: in Albuquerque? Is it the one that's south east of
Speaker 1: the downtown Albuquerque's it's like a huge base, right.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it's huge and it's yeah, and it's adjacent
Speaker 2: to the airport, actually is right up right up against it.
Speaker 2: And that was part of the larger story that during
Speaker 2: this whole Benowitz period when he was monitoring all this stuff,
Speaker 2: the airport lost power and communication like for several hours
Speaker 2: one day, I mean we were talking seven or eight hours,
Speaker 2: and it was it was most likely on account of
Speaker 2: something that was they were testing at Kirtland that you know,
Speaker 2: made everything go haywire.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so high tech stuff going on in New Mexico totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The so you guys filmed there. You had Nori Ohayakawa,
Speaker 1: who's also kind of a known UFO expert, right, is
Speaker 1: he in the film?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, you know he was the What we
Speaker 2: deal with in the film is a lot of what
Speaker 2: was going on in the nineteen eighties with these revelations
Speaker 2: of Kirtland Base, which were kind of a spin off
Speaker 2: of the Benwitz affair, and that's when these stories about
Speaker 2: Area fifty one emerged. So a lot of the characters
Speaker 2: that were prevalent on the scene during that period we
Speaker 2: talked to, such as Nori Ohyakawa, who was we spent
Speaker 2: a lot of time out. He was with the citizens
Speaker 2: group that were protesting how they were during that period
Speaker 2: keeping people out of Area fifty one, where you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of the same things going on at Kirtland
Speaker 2: was happening there, you know, and a lot of these
Speaker 2: groups were trying to figure out what exactly was going on,
Speaker 2: you know, And so we also talked to just a
Speaker 2: number of people David Perkins, who was had a long
Speaker 2: history and researching cattle mutilations in the Dulce area, and
Speaker 2: Christian Lambright who was involved in the Benwitz affair, and
Speaker 2: just yeah, a whole number of people also, you know,
Speaker 2: the characters like Bill Cooper were involved in this scene
Speaker 2: during the late eighties along with John Lear kind of
Speaker 2: pushing these emerging stories concerning what was going on at
Speaker 2: Dulce Base with purportedly supposedly you know, there was a
Speaker 2: treaty with the government with the aliens and they had
Speaker 2: the secret base there where they were basically creating these
Speaker 2: alien human hybrids, and all these stories later kind of informed, inspired, influenced,
Speaker 2: you know, the stories we saw in X files in
Speaker 2: the by the mid nineties.
Speaker 1: Right, that whole area is kind of Xi. Where was
Speaker 1: Bill Cooper He was headquartered somewhere around there. Was he
Speaker 1: in Arizona and.
Speaker 3: Was in Arizona for a long time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So that's also the land of the cattle
Speaker 1: mutilations really is actually that northern New Mexico area, if
Speaker 1: I remember for there's a lot there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a that's a big part of the
Speaker 2: story as well, because that's something that That's one of
Speaker 2: the things that got Benowitz interested in UFOs were the
Speaker 2: cattle mutilation and the you know, into the mutilations that
Speaker 2: were going on during that period, which you know, we're
Speaker 2: also all these researchers and investigators were trying to find out,
Speaker 2: you know, what was the connection here going on with
Speaker 2: all of these Was it similar to what was going
Speaker 2: on at Kirtland where the government was happy to have
Speaker 2: people believe that, you know, it was ets that were
Speaker 2: being seen or over the base as opposed to secret aircraft,
Speaker 2: and the same you know, could be you could contribute
Speaker 2: that to the cattle mutilations that they were happy to
Speaker 2: point people in the direction of ets being responsible for
Speaker 2: the mutilations. But once again, you know, there there was
Speaker 2: a prospect that it was connected to some type of
Speaker 2: secret government project going on during that period. Right.
Speaker 1: And for people who don't know who Greg Bishop is,
Speaker 1: who's great because you guys were there talking to him too, right.
Speaker 2: Uh. Yeah. He is the author of the first, really
Speaker 2: the first book on the Benowitz affair project Beta, which
Speaker 2: I would also highly recommend for anybody wants to take
Speaker 2: a deep dive into the story.
Speaker 1: Gotcha. So he was an integral part of the film too.
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, definitely, yeah, I mean he was really one
Speaker 3: of the biggest key parts to telling the story.
Speaker 1: I feel like, kind of keeping you guys informed and
Speaker 1: talking to that. Did you guys get a chance to
Speaker 1: go to any of the other UFO sites while you
Speaker 1: guys are on the road?
Speaker 3: Hm? Where do we? We were mainly just hitting stuff
Speaker 3: that had to do with the story, so we didn't
Speaker 3: straight too far from.
Speaker 1: That Ferdland Dolce. And the other thing is like this
Speaker 1: person that was in this story who pops up still
Speaker 1: I think is Richard Dody?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Can you talk about it?
Speaker 2: So? Yeah, Richard Dody was with the Air Force Office
Speaker 2: of Special Investigations there at Kirtland and yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: pretty involved story. But also involved was a eufologist investigator.
Speaker 2: Author Bill Moore wrote the book on the Roswell Incident.
Speaker 2: And so how the Dody and Moore got connected with
Speaker 2: Benowitz had to do with an incident where this mysterious
Speaker 2: character who Moore has referred to as Falcon code name
Speaker 2: over the years, allegedly a high level CIA agent came
Speaker 2: in contact with more around this period we're talking nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty after he had published his book on Roswell and
Speaker 2: struck up a deal with him. More was prominent in
Speaker 2: UFO circles at that time. He belonged to a group
Speaker 2: called APRO, the Aerial phen Phenomenon Research Association, which was
Speaker 2: investigating UFOs in the Southwest. Anyway, the government, the spook
Speaker 2: types approached More and offered him a bargain. If he
Speaker 2: would keep track on people in eufology and report back
Speaker 2: to them, you know, working as an informant, they would
Speaker 2: in trade give him access to top secret information related
Speaker 2: to UFOs. And during during that period, much more so
Speaker 2: than today, a lot of the folks involved in the
Speaker 2: different UFO groups were also these guys who were civilian
Speaker 2: contractors and who worked on uh you know, different like
Speaker 2: some of the stealth projects and these type of things
Speaker 2: during this period. And at the same time, you know,
Speaker 2: you had you had different UFO conventions where he had
Speaker 2: these civilian content tractors interested in UFOs.
Speaker 3: You have.
Speaker 2: Spies from the Soviet Union and China showing up upon occasion,
Speaker 2: and so that was kind of what the interest was
Speaker 2: in people in eufology and contacts Bill Moore had. He
Speaker 2: had some various contacts in the Soviet Union is to
Speaker 2: basically find find out who these find out who these
Speaker 2: spies were, and pass on to them bogus information. And
Speaker 2: that's where a lot of these hoax documents that a
Speaker 2: lot of moving parts of the story that came out
Speaker 2: during this period, d MJ twelve documents and the Aquarius
Speaker 2: documents and all these things that were connected to Bill
Speaker 2: Moore and Richard Dody Doty kind of, according to the
Speaker 2: way he tells the story, he was a middleman or
Speaker 2: proxy behind the high level spooks, and he was the
Speaker 2: one that was passing more a lot of these supposedly
Speaker 2: super secret documents. A lot of them ultimately turned out
Speaker 2: to be hoaxed documents, like the MJ twelve papers that
Speaker 2: basically confirmed the Roswell crash, which was kind of convenient
Speaker 2: because Moore had written a book about the Roswell crash
Speaker 2: a couple of years before these documents surfaced, and so,
Speaker 2: you know, it's a very convoluted story that you know
Speaker 2: and we don't know we know all the answers who
Speaker 2: was involved with it. Was Bill Moore actually concocting some
Speaker 2: of these documents, were more in Doty working together was
Speaker 2: basically more dupe who didn't know anything, I have my suspicions,
Speaker 2: but we still after all these years, really don't have
Speaker 2: the answers to all the pieces of the puzzle.
Speaker 1: Right, And it really is a complex thing. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that I think people would be surprised
Speaker 1: about is that these how many intel and military people
Speaker 1: around at least this particular case, if not the UFO
Speaker 1: movement in general. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Well, of course, yeah, you've been and I talk about
Speaker 2: it throughout the book. It's kind of the same cast
Speaker 2: of characters that keep reappearing over the decades that you know,
Speaker 2: dating back to the likes of hal poutof back in
Speaker 2: the early seventies with project at Stanford Research Institute where
Speaker 2: they're doing experiments in a remote viewing for the CIA,
Speaker 2: And he's another one of those guys who turns up
Speaker 2: in all these stories I talk about in the book
Speaker 2: all the way to current date with you know, at
Speaker 2: least this last decade with to the Stars Academy and
Speaker 2: Tom DeLong and once again pushing stories of Roswell and
Speaker 2: Flying Saucer crash retrievals. I believe they're all the connected,
Speaker 2: you know, And.
Speaker 3: What go ahead, I was gonna say going back to
Speaker 3: the Farmington thing there. I think the the reason that
Speaker 3: we actually went there just to switch gears for a second,
Speaker 3: was because in your book, Adam, there's a great chapter
Speaker 3: called Crash Goes the Saucers, and it goes into the
Speaker 3: Aztec crashed Saucer, which we found in this case was
Speaker 3: in portt and and it was it was the story
Speaker 3: was put out like in the nineteen fifties by this
Speaker 3: guy Frank Scutt, who wrote Behind the Flying Saucers, and
Speaker 3: he was actually being fed this stuff by this guy
Speaker 3: named Silas Newton who had who had been just telling
Speaker 3: the stories to him, and then he wrote it into
Speaker 3: his book. Am I getting this right at him? M?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: And so it turns out this guy Silas Newton, he
Speaker 3: you know, it really lays out all of the tropes
Speaker 3: from the craft saucer, like the little little people little
Speaker 3: aliens were found you know, near the body or near
Speaker 3: the saucer, and what are some other like the the
Speaker 3: meta metals or meta materials. I think that was part
Speaker 3: of this this sty two back, and you know, it's
Speaker 3: like really early on in the fifties.
Speaker 2: And they yeah, and they you know the same story
Speaker 2: that later cropped up in Roswell. They h cordoned off
Speaker 2: the area and brought in uh military that hauled off
Speaker 2: the spaceship or the remains of the spaceship and took
Speaker 2: it to write Patterson Air Air Base. And you know,
Speaker 2: also connected to that was that they hadn't one of
Speaker 2: the aliens survived and they had it in captivity. And
Speaker 2: all of this got these stories got recycled into Roswell
Speaker 2: and the Benowitz affair.
Speaker 3: But the guy that basically started that story was Silas Newton,
Speaker 3: who turned out to be this like serial con man,
Speaker 3: you know, he was he was like making fake what
Speaker 3: do you call it, the oil He was like a
Speaker 3: fake oil man or something, and he had all these cons,
Speaker 3: you know, to make cash. And this was just like
Speaker 3: part of that.
Speaker 1: This was just another one of his kind of money
Speaker 1: making schemes. Interesting the do you ever come across Banister?
Speaker 1: Wasn't he involved in one of the earlier early not Banisters?
Speaker 1: What's the guy's name from the g f K, the
Speaker 1: FBI agent.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, guy Banister. You are correct. He does come
Speaker 2: up in euphological history in a kind of an odd
Speaker 2: way of you know, Banister was connected allegedly to the
Speaker 2: JFK assassination. He was he was a longtime FBI guy
Speaker 2: and retired from the FBI and had this was a
Speaker 2: private investigator. You know, during the JFK assassination, he was
Speaker 2: connected anti Castro Cubans and Garrison alleged he was just
Speaker 2: part of this nexus of CIA rogue CIA agents like
Speaker 2: David Ferry and the anti Castro Cubans. But you know,
Speaker 2: he was also involved in the early days of UFOs
Speaker 2: in forty six forty seven, that period, I believe he
Speaker 2: was in Wyoming and it was right after the Kenneth
Speaker 2: Arnold sighting, which was like nineteen June of forty seven,
Speaker 2: and there was this whole flap of UFOs right after
Speaker 2: that kind of sparks something for the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: If you go go to newspaper dot com, look at
Speaker 2: that period, there's this flap and that's when the Roswell
Speaker 2: crash happened. But there was also this outbreak of small
Speaker 2: saucers that people were finding across the country and in
Speaker 2: most cases it looked like uh stuff that kids built
Speaker 2: and uh planted or launched, you know, and uh concerned
Speaker 2: people were, you know, flying saucers were in the air.
Speaker 2: So ye had this whole slew of these different small saucers.
Speaker 2: Some looked like they were made by like symbols from
Speaker 2: a drum, these type of things. And so that's where
Speaker 2: Banister comes into the story. He actually investigated one of
Speaker 2: these small h saucers that were most likely from what
Speaker 2: I could tell from all the reports were just kind
Speaker 2: of hoaxes that people were building the building these and
Speaker 2: you know, there there was quite a few stories of
Speaker 2: these small discs that h got reported during this period,
Speaker 2: and that's that's Banners.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like there was one pre it's pre Roswell.
Speaker 1: There was some kind of like disc craze. So the
Speaker 1: yeah po stuff goes back pretty far. Yeah, pretty wild.
Speaker 1: So you have a new podcast, it's that you can
Speaker 1: people can find it at the at the sponsor's Spooks
Speaker 1: and Cookes substant right, yes, right, So that's it, and
Speaker 1: then the film people have to I'll put a link
Speaker 1: to it. It's Saucers, Spooks and Cokes at dot VHX
Speaker 1: and TV. Is there anything else in the film that
Speaker 1: you like to cover or anything I missed her? And
Speaker 1: what else can people expect to see in the documentary.
Speaker 3: We kind of go into the uh, you know, the
Speaker 3: last decade of UFO history that's happened, and that was
Speaker 3: kind of one of the big things that I wanted
Speaker 3: to do is put into every put into context everything
Speaker 3: that's been happening, you know, in the new UFOL story,
Speaker 3: and in juxtaposition that with you know, the old UFO
Speaker 3: stories from like the eighties and nineties, and so to
Speaker 3: have that historical context, the picture of the UFO story
Speaker 3: comes much clearer. I felt like, so we covers Skinwalker,
Speaker 3: tts A, you know, big A, Low dealings. David Grush
Speaker 3: is not in. I mean, he's in the film, but
Speaker 3: we don't really cover.
Speaker 1: Talk what's your what's your take on the TTSA to
Speaker 1: the Stars of gain.
Speaker 3: Well In the film, Greg Bishop, you know, says it
Speaker 3: was kind of just like a cog a wheel. I
Speaker 3: think he used that term, so kind of just like
Speaker 3: a stepping stone to get to a different place in
Speaker 3: whatever kind of story they're trying to put.
Speaker 1: Out, you know, I mean, is it still intact?
Speaker 3: I think it is on some level. I think he's
Speaker 3: put out or a tum Delong's put out a film
Speaker 3: maybe last year. I haven't really followed it too closely.
Speaker 1: Because I mean I thought that they were kind of
Speaker 1: like in financial straits if I remember correctly at one time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's true.
Speaker 1: Huh yeah. So people can check out the film. I've
Speaker 1: played the trailer a few times. Sound off. I'll put
Speaker 1: the links in there. So anything you'd like, you guys
Speaker 1: like to add before I wrap it up Friday. What
Speaker 1: do you think of them?
Speaker 2: Oh uh no, I think we covered it pretty well.
Speaker 1: Okay. People can find your books at your website too.
Speaker 1: So your website is Adam go rightly too.
Speaker 2: This is.
Speaker 1: And that's the best place to contact you, or the substack.
Speaker 1: So I can put links to your website, the substack,
Speaker 1: and then the film too as well. Right yeah. Do
Speaker 1: you sign your books, Adam? If people can buy them
Speaker 1: through your website you sent them out, I can do
Speaker 1: that sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, still have to contact me at my email, gotcha.
Speaker 1: So and the website. So you've got places for people
Speaker 1: to contact you. And again what we talked about. Check
Speaker 1: it out, guys. Two Hours of Information is the document.
Speaker 1: Check out the book too. Check out Saucer Spooks and Cookes.
Speaker 1: Well hell yeah, yeah, don't get it. It's got great reviews.
Speaker 1: I read it I can vouch for it, but also
Speaker 1: go check out the movie. It's right here. You can
Speaker 1: see it, and it's Saucer, Spooks and Cookes and the guesses.
Speaker 1: Adam go rightly, and then his fellow worker on the film,
Speaker 1: fellow creative, is Chris Graybill g r A Y.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have one thing to add there, William, you
Speaker 2: were talking about Visigoth and how you're starting to.
Speaker 1: You got the archive from I have eight hundred or
Speaker 1: nine hundred episodes, Adam, Well, I got.
Speaker 2: A lot there, so I might have some you don't have,
Speaker 2: and I'll look through those tonight. Vis and I actually
Speaker 2: did our own podcast, maybe a dozen episodes when we
Speaker 2: gave it different names. One was the Untamed Grassy Knoll.
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure if you have those files, cell.
Speaker 1: I tell you what I have. Yeah, there used to
Speaker 1: be some on a website. I can't remember what the
Speaker 1: name of it is now, but the links don't work anymore.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the old links are gone. So
Speaker 1: I'm trying to collect. If you have any of his
Speaker 1: old stuff, send it to me. I really want to
Speaker 1: find He did an interview with one of the McMartin women,
Speaker 1: mc greevy or whatever, Joe vi On, I can't find
Speaker 1: that one. Like, it's really an important archive because of
Speaker 1: all the important people like you who he's interviewed over time,
Speaker 1: like these are still relevant. There's a whole new generation
Speaker 1: of researchers that just listen to podcasts and really are interested.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, it's the archive is active, like people
Speaker 1: do listen to it. I wouldn't say it's like Joe Rogan,
Speaker 1: but you know, I get it. You know, thousands of
Speaker 1: people a month they're on there listening to old stuff,
Speaker 1: your stuff. Yeah, and it's all really important timestamps and
Speaker 1: so many great authors that Visigoth really had its sensibilities
Speaker 1: even like at the very kind of beginning parts of
Speaker 1: the Internet were really good, Like you really had reached
Speaker 1: out to people who were writing and I think what
Speaker 1: was important stuff. So yeah, the archives are eight hundred.
Speaker 1: I've got I broke it down into seven so it's easier.
Speaker 1: Seven different archives so it's easier to kind of get through.
Speaker 1: And Adam's in there. So yeah, if you send me
Speaker 1: those old ones, I'd be happy to post them, you know,
Speaker 1: and it'll help kind of get your name out there people,
Speaker 1: it'll help you sell books. That's for sure. Cool Again, guys,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for your time. Congrats on the new
Speaker 1: film just came out January twenty twenty five and it
Speaker 1: is a documentary based on the excellent book Saucers, Spooks
Speaker 1: and Coops. So thanks so much for your time. Really
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, William.
Speaker 1: All right, stay there,