Speaker 1: Then put your little hand.
Speaker 2: In the.
Speaker 1: Mountain we can't find. Okay, Shirley Fans, rise and shine
and don't forget your booties cause it's cool.
Speaker 3: It's cold out there every day. What is its Miami Beach?
Speaker 1: Jason? Do you have daja vo? I don't know, but
I can check in the kitchen. Do you think Phil
is gonna come out and see his shadow today? Pak
Satani Phil. That's right, Woodchuck Chuckers.
Speaker 3: It's grown day.
Speaker 1: Shirley Fans, welcome back to the Shirley You Can't be
Serious podcast. We are here with season four. I can't
believe we've been doing this for three seasons now. It's
like day one. It's just exciting and fun every single time. Jason,
I don't know what you're doing later, but can you
call in six ladies? And I am d Graves and
I am here with my co host Jason Colvin, the
fastest jack in Johnson County.
Speaker 3: We have a great matchup today to begin season four.
This is one we've been wrestling with a little bit. Today.
This will be Groundhog Day versus Multiplicity. These are both
Harold Ramis directed movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got lots of cast members in common. We've
got an almost cast member in common, and we can
talk about why Groundhog Day was such a monumental success
like it was, and Multiplicity definitely fell short.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we definitely need to talk about that for sure.
I've got some ideas, like small changes that would make
Multiplicity way better because it was funny. There's definitely some
funny parts.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we will definitely get into that. And just
as a teaser, ladies and gentlemen, in nineteen eighty three,
March of nineteen eighty three, almost exactly forty years ago,
Peter Ivers, a young Harvard graduate who had been making
the underground scene as what Waters came, was the best
blues heart player in the world. He was also a
host on a TV show that was kind of a
pre runner for MTV, and he was bludgeoned to death
in his skid Row apartment on March third, nineteen eighty three,
and one of the key members of these two movies
was immediately a suspect in the murder.
Speaker 3: I had forgotten about that. We've already talked about that
in our Ghostbusters episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, our Guestbuster's episode. So that's the teaser. I will
bring you back to that story. When we get to multiplicity,
you do such a great job of laying the hook,
the bludgeon to death thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm on the hook and I've heard the story.
Speaker 1: But before we jump into all of the other stuff,
we got to say something about our fans. Number one,
Shirley fans are the best fans in the world. Number two,
we got to give a special shout out to Chris Weber.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Chris Weber has sent us, over the course of time,
three different records, right, and so he has sent us
the airplanes soundtrack record Perfect which who knew airplane had
a soundtrack? Right, It's got the Notre Dame fight song
on there, among other things, the girls singing the River
Jordan and its super fun record, which Chris sent to
us a while back. And then since then he sent
two other records that he found the record store k
Tell collection of nineteen eighty three and it's like nineteen
eighty three songs up and down from Ktael. It's super fun.
Speaker 1: The Ktell story in and of itself should be a
episode all to its own, because that is an incredible
story right there. Ktel Records. We will probably find a
way to sneak that in maybe it'll be a Patreon episode.
By the way, thank you to all of our Patreon
members who have stood with us through the test of time.
We appreciate your support. We couldn't do all that we
do without it. Thank you so much. Guys. If you're
interested in supporting our podcast through Patreon, you can go
to patreon dot com slash Surely Podcast. If you do that,
if you become a donator, then we will shout out
to you. You become an executive producer, and if you
level up, we send you fund special gifts. But probably
the best gift is for any Patreon member, and that
is getting to hear our super secret one hit Wonder episodes.
Speaker 3: Do We have recorded ten special Patreon episodes now covering
you know, quote unquote one hit wonders of the eighties
and nineties and even seventies.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So we've done songs like don't You Forget About Me
by the Simple Minds. Yeah, we've talked about Don't You
Want Me by the Human League. That was our latest one.
We did September by earth Winded Fire. We did video
Kill the Radio Star and it's been a lot of fun,
got a lot of great stuff over there. I think
some of our best work on the Patreon and it's
only five bucks a month and you can get access
to all that stuff over there. Definitely need to go
check it out over there.
Speaker 1: Yes, ten special episodes Jason's Pixar especially special like short
but special kind of episodes. But there's still worth the listen.
Speaker 3: I promise they're kind of like Michael Keaton number four
episodes over there.
Speaker 1: Right ey thieve.
Speaker 3: This episode is going to be number four.
Speaker 1: Right are.
Speaker 3: Okay? So you're ready to dive into the creation of
these two movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's talk about Harold Ramis. He was the
director for groundhog Day. He was the director for Multiplicity.
He probably wrote nearly most of both scripts. But let's
just back up and get a little picture of who
he is. And if you don't know the name Harold Ramis,
let me just say Egon Spengler. Yes, yeah, that would
have worked if you hadn't stopped me.
Speaker 3: I collected spores, molds, and fungus.
Speaker 1: Egon, Egon, Egon Spinler. So when Egon was just a
young Spindler, he was Harold Ramis. In Chicago, where he
was raised, his dad owned a food and liquor store.
Raised Jewish, went to Saint Louis to Washington University to
go to school there. After school, he worked, I'm not
kidding here, he worked in a psych ward for several months,
worked in a psych ward, and he is he is
not to say this helped me when I moved to
Hollywood in how to deal with people. He was like,
I'm not getting like legitimately, like when you're working with actors,
you don't know what mental playing they're coming from, and
so you just got to go, Okay, this guy's not
thinking the same way I am. I can work with that.
Speaker 3: I guarantee you. He thought about that when he was
dealing with Bill Murray. Yeah, okay, and he dealt with
Bill Murray from the beginning. But let's not get ahead
of ourselves, all right. So went to the Washington University
in Saint Louis, worked at the site ward, came back
to Chicago, started teaching inner city kids at a high
school there, but then also was doing stuff in like
Guerrilla TV, like TV TV, and became a joke editor
for Playboy magazine. And then he started working for the
Second City Improv group.
Speaker 1: And so through all of this, you know he's teaching,
but he's got his love for entertainment and improv and
obviously Second City is something that later becomes Second City TV,
so he does more TV stuff. He gets asked to
come right for Saturday Night Live, but doesn't want to
do that, sticks with SCTV and ultimately starts working with
Bill Murray and they end up doing their first projects together.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So Harold Ramis wrote Meatballs, which starred Bill Murray
that came out in nineteen seventy nine. Ivan Rightman directed
Meatballs right and if you want a really cool crossover episode,
we did a crossover with the guys on the film
Buy One podcast on Ivan Ryman. It was Ghostbusters two
and we kind of dive into this story a little bit.
Speaker 1: Absolutely check out Ghostbusters too, Ivan Rightman is a fantastic story.
I loved going really episode and I always love doing
stuff with Brad Jeff's so it was perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty, Harold Ramis gets his first directorial movie,
Caddy Shack.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about that one in our Caddy Shack
Versus Happy Gilmour episode and the craziness that went on there.
But Harold Ramis finally is able to establish himself as
the director of a high quality movie.
Speaker 3: And then in nineteen eighty one he works with Bill
Murray again for Stripes. Later on, in nineteen eighty three,
we're talking forty years ago, he gets Chevy Chase in
the movie Vacation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got that one coming up in the future
in this season where we're going to compare that one
to The Great Outdoors, another comedy classic Summer.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be great.
Speaker 1: Okay. So now new guy to talk about. We've got
a guy named Danny Rubin.
Speaker 3: Right, Danny Noonan No, oh, that's Kedyshe.
Speaker 1: You do drugs, Danny every day? What's the problem? So,
so Danny was a guy who got his master's degree
in film television and then again went and was teaching
high school and realized, I don't want to do this
for the rest of my life, right, So he moves
out to California, is going to try to make his
way as a script writer. And he comes up with
this script idea after reading an Anne Rice novel.
Speaker 3: So he is sitting in the movie theater and he's
reading The Vampire Lestat.
Speaker 1: Why why is he reading in the movie theater?
Speaker 3: I guess he's by himself as born. I don't brings
books to the movie theater, right, But if you've ever
seen the Interview with a Vampire, the character that Tom
Cruise plays in that is the vampire less stat Yeah,
and he's immortal and he just continues to live forever
and ever and ever. And he started to question what
life would be like if I were immortal.
Speaker 1: So that leads him to develop this script. Now, his script, interestingly,
it starts in the middle of the story, like he's
already in the loop. He's in the time loop. And
you don't get the you don't get the foundation of
him getting there. It's just he's there. And that's how
this script starts. And so he shops this around to
dozens of production companies and everybody says the same thing.
I love the script. We can't make it right. It's
just too hard. But then Harold Ramis gets a hold
of the script, and then we get studio money involved.
Because by this time it's nineteen ninety three. He has
been established now for over a decade as a heavy hitter,
and he loves the script, and he loves the fact
that it starts in the middle. And he goes to
Danny He's like, I love this. I love that it
starts in the middle. We are definitely keeping that, yeah, exactly, Yeah,
except that then, of course, Hollywood is what Hollywood is.
And one of the studio executives comes in and says,
wouldn't the audience like to know how he got there? Yeah?
And Harold Ramis is like, I don't know. I mean,
I really like that it's in the middle, and she goes,
why did you just write it and just see how
it turns out? Just see what you know, just for funzies. Yeah,
And so he writes it, and of course that becomes
the intro for the movie.
Speaker 3: One of the things we need to talk about in
this movie. And I don't want to show my hand
particularly early. I think I already have. But they literally
make every right decision, like every time they reach a
fork in the road. Yeah, everything that they decide makes
the movie better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really does. It really does, because I got
to say, the intro to the movie is not particularly
exciting until the point that he hits his first second day,
you know, like his first repeat day, and at that
point then it's fascinating. Then it's like what's going on here?
And we needed to have that moment. But we also
the reason that the intro is important, not because the
story is particularly great, but it establishes who Bill Murray's
character is, who Phil is right, and he is the
same guy from Scrooge to just a few years early.
Speaker 3: And we talked about this, he's Frank Cross right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: By the way, Danny Rubin's script didn't start out as funny.
Speaker 1: No, it's much darker.
Speaker 3: It's much darker. One of the things that he and
Harold Raimis talked about was the suicide attempts. Yeah, because
at some point, when you're stuck in this loop, dark
things into your mind.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And this is interesting and we'll talk about this
when we get to kind of the production side of things.
But this is something that follows the three act structure,
but it also follows the five stages of grief, which
is really interesting. It's not like any other script before it. Now,
this script has become a trope in and of itself.
I mean this, this idea has happened over and over
again in different iterations, but this is the original as
far as I can tell. Like, this is the first
one where it was I wake up and everybody else
is doing the exact same day, and I'm the only
one who knows we already did this, right, and it's
great in that. How many times, I mean, in our
forties now, how many times have you just got up
in the morning and thought, God, I feel like I'm
doing the exact same thing and have been doing the
exact same thing for years now.
Speaker 3: In our lexicon. Now, when you're like, I'm just stuck
in Groundhog Day, yeah, we all know what that means.
Speaker 1: I mean, guys, we're releasing this on Groundhog Day twenty
twenty three. Right, most people in the world don't know
what that holiday is. It is a strictly American holiday, right,
Puck Satani Phil the groundhog comes out. If he sees
his shadow and gets scared, it means six more weeks
of winter. If he doesn't see his shadow, it means
that spring is right around the corner. Well, it's six
more weeks of winter anyway. It's just some dumb, meaningless ceremony,
a bunch of people coming out to worship a rat.
I remember when we used to kill a rat. But
the movie itself has taken over the whole idea, like,
I mean, worldwide, even though they don't celebrate Groundhog Day.
They know what Groundhog Day is because of this movie,
and it's now no longer this does the groundhog see
a shadow? It is the idea that you have a
repeating cycle. You're stuck in a time loop. You're doing
the same thing day after day after day.
Speaker 3: Okay, you know why Danny Rubin chose Groundhog Day to
be that day?
Speaker 1: Tell me so.
Speaker 3: After he wrote the script, you know, the time loop script,
he's like, oh man, I'm onto something, right, this is
a good idea the time loop. He pulled out his
calendar is like, what's the nearest holiday that hasn't been done? Yeah, right,
bim February second, Groundhog Day.
Speaker 1: Boom.
Speaker 3: That's the reason.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and here's the thing he in the script that
he wrote he also had showing at the theater was
It's a Wonderful Life. To him, the movie that you
saw every year, like it was the movie that just
kept coming up year after year after year. And so
this idea that that would be the one movie that
was showing at the theater seemed perfect to him. But
when Harold Ramis read the script, instead of this dark,
kind of morbid comedy that he had. It's like a
George Bailey style story, right where he gets to see
the world if he wasn't in it. And in this
scenario we see the same type of idea. And that's
how Harold Ramis decides to go with this movie.
Speaker 3: I mean, really, we're talking about Bill Murray dropped off
in It's a Wonderful Life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of, kind of. It's just this, yeah, a
very weird paradox.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is never explained. See, that's the right decision
there too, right. I know they talked about it because
the studio was very concerned, like will the audience go
with you on that? You know what they talked about
how at one point they thought maybe it would be
a curse from somebody, you know, somebody got mad at
you and cursed you, or you know, your hit on
the head, or you know, there's always some sort of
magic what happens. It's never explained.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna jump ahead in our normal time sequence
and talk about post production stuff. Okay, but I think
it touches on this point in that there is a
universal understanding of this epidemic of you feel like you're
stuck in a time loop. Because Groundhog Day gets released
on a Friday, as you know normally movies would, and
it actually is like a week or so after the
actual Groundhog Day. They like release it mid February oddly enough,
why they would have tried to get before at least
on the day guys Suirly podcast take it out all right. Anyway,
it comes out on a Friday, and on that Sunday,
he gets a call from his writing partner and his
producing partner. The partner says, they're picketing your movie in
Santa Monica. And he's like what why, And he's like, well,
they're not against the movie. He goes what's going on.
He's like, well, it's all of these Hasidic Jews and
they are walking around in circles with signs saying are
you living the same day? Over and over again? Now,
I mentioned that Harold Ramis was raised Jewish, but this
is kind of a Jewish thing. Like in the Jewish tradition,
they start the Torah, reading the Torah on the same
day every year, read the same verse, like every Jewish
practicing person is reading the same verses on the same
day throughout the year, and so they have that repetition,
and they've got that idea. Harold Ramis's mother in law
is a Zen Buddhist, like lived in a commune Zen
Buddhist community for like thirty years, and when she saw it,
she's like, oh, yeah, this is totally a Buddhist concept. Right.
Yogi's were calling him, The Christians were calling him saying, hey,
you've got like the Catholics were saying, he's in purgatory.
This is obviously he hasn't done what's right enough, but
not what's wrong enough, and so he's got to absolve himself.
And you have this whole in the Buddhist tradition, you
have ten thousand years to renew your spirit. Right, all
of see, he's still all all of the and psychoanalysis.
I mean, my gosh, I mean it's just all. It
all has this communal, moral and philosophical relationship. He just
managed to hit everything. And so you don't need to
know why because everybody has it as their understanding.
Speaker 3: It's fascinating. I know they're thrilled about it. Yeah, but
it just magically happened and everybody identifies with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's exactly.
Speaker 3: Okay, So let's jump into multiplicity I'd like you to
meet four what that guy Gate?
Speaker 1: Right? Okay? So Groundhog Day came out nineteen ninety three,
Multiplicity is just three years later, nineteen ninety six, right, right,
And before I get there, back to Peter Ivers. Yeah, okay,
So Peter Ivers, like I said, Harvard Grad, incredible musician
on the punk scene underground, seemed to be writing a
lot of quality stuff. Seemed to be a guy who
who is just on the fringes of becoming famous. And
then mysteriously he is murdered in his own apartment. He
had gotten he had broken up with his girlfriend. He
moved into this kind of rat invested apartment next to
skid row, Like you know, I heard story, you know,
dead prostitute in the trash can. Kind of deals. Bad
place to be to begin with, right, And he was
the type of guy who just inherently trusted people. But
he was the host of this TV show called New
Wave Theater, and that show was developed by a guy
named Dave Jove. At some point, Peter Ivers tells Dave Jove, hey,
I don't want to do this show anymore. And it's
not too much longer than that that Harold Ramis's wife
starts calling people because she's a nurse. He hasn't shown
up for his appointment. He's got an appointment with her
and he hasn't shown up, and this is completely unlike him.
And so Harold Ramis's wife is the one who really
kind of sets the alarm of hey, what where's Peter.
Somebody needs to go check on Peter, okay, And that's
where they find him in his bed, so badly beaten.
It looks like it was a gunshot to the head,
but it wasn't. He was just beaten this badly, right.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: The police botch this investigation so much that to this
day it is still unsolved. Like they let all of
his friends come into the apartment and wander around. Dave
Jove literally collects his bloody sheets and takes them out
of the apartment, and they never get investigated. The cops
because this guy's just living on skid row just thinks
it's some vagrant or somebody who he was being nice to,
who are a drug deal gone bad. They're blowing it off,
and so they don't really do a significant investigation in this.
But Harold Ramis's wife shows up and when she realizes
what has happened. She's absolutely hysterical, and so when they
see her reaction, they suspect Harold Ramis for the murder
because they think, oh, with her reaction, nobody who wasn't
in some sort of romantic relationship with Peter Ivers would
react this way, and so they suspect Harold Ramis. Of
course he had an alibi, it wasn't him. But interestingly,
Dave Jove, when Peter Ivers dies, develops a brand new
show called The Top and that is produced and written
by Harold Ramis, Like you can see how you could
go wow, he kind of took over his spot after
he died. He was a suspect in the murder. But
Harold Ramis, everybody will say, is just the nicest guy
in the world.
Speaker 3: You know, I've heard that, and he seems to be
this very warm, jovial, easy to get along with guy.
And we know we know Bill Murray is a pain
in the butt and very difficult. Yeah, Bill Murray and
Harold Ramis after a Groundhog Day. Keep in mind they
made Caddy Scheck Stripes, Ghostbusters Ghostbusters two.
Speaker 1: They worked in Chicago. They were working right like they
were fifteen years of close friendship.
Speaker 3: I saw Harold Ramis's daughter talking about this. She's like,
I don't really know what happened, but they were friends
when they made the movie, and then when they finished
the movie, they weren't friends. And they were not friends
all the way until Harold Ramis was on his deathbed
about to die, and that's when Bill Murray showed up
and they reconciled.
Speaker 1: They didn't speak for twenty years. It's crazy, it's nuts.
Speaker 3: And then you get that little tribute in Ghostbusters Afterlife,
Yeah to Harold Ramis. Yeah, kind of nice, yep, Okay,
so multiplicity. I'm sorry we got steered off right there.
Speaker 1: Harold Ramis a suspect, but we know it wasn't really him.
But Harold Ramis did know Peter Ivers.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And Peter Ivers had another close friend who was also
close friends with Harold Ramis. Okay, and his name was
Douglas Kenny.
Speaker 3: Doug Kenny.
Speaker 1: Yes, So all of these guys worked together in various ways.
And Douglas Kenny, of course, key member of the Animal
House Group, key member of Caddie Shack, has a very
weird death circumstance himself. It is. There's a great documentary
out there on it, but Harold Ramis says, Okay, I'm
going to go back to one of my one of
the National Lampoon stories that I've seen, and I'm going
to make the main character's name Doug Kenny number two.
No more dougs. That's it.
Speaker 3: This is plenty. I think.
Speaker 1: Morning we're out of the Doug making business all together.
Speaker 3: That's really cool. Yeah, by the way, if you don't
know who Doug Kenny is an Animal House, he's got
a real prominent, real famous, real quotable line. It's the
guy is like, well, what the hell was supposed to
do you moron? That's Doug Kenny.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He died in Hawaii under very mysterious circumstances. Yeah, they
just found his body at the bottom of a cliff.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember the quote. I think it was
something like I think, and it may have been Harold
Ramis that said this. I think Doug fell when he
was looking for a place to jump off. I think
that's I think that's basically where they got with that one.
But another guy that was close with Doug Kenny was
an act in National Lampoon Animal House with Doug Kenney
and also a writer on The National Lampoon was a
guy named Chris Miller. And just to tell you how
close he is, his nickname when he was in college
was Pentot.
Speaker 3: Okay, interesting, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1: He would go on and write several other things. He
was a writer on Square Pegs, the series with.
Speaker 3: Sarah Jessica PARKERSCA Parker.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But he wrote a story in nineteen ninety three
in The National Lampoon that was called Multiplicity. And it
was this same story that Harold Ramis decided to take
and make into a full movie. And once again, he
probably wrote forty percent of the script. But because of
the rules if you're the director, you can't have writing
credit unless you write fifty percent or more. So he
is not listed as a writer on this movie. But
he probably is right right, But Chris Miller is the
guy who penned the original story. Now I will say this.
I didn't realize it before, but multiplicity is a psychological
term as well. Do you know what it means? Ready?
For this?
Speaker 3: Multiple personalities?
Speaker 1: It is a psychological in which a body can feature
multiple distinct or overlapping consciousnesses, each with their own degree
of individuality. So, okay, then he takes this nineteen ninety
three story, and it just so happens, just knowing that
when filming had to take place, and how long editing
takes place. They've got this plan to release this movie
in nineteen ninety six. Well, do you know what else
happened in nineteen ninety six? The Summer Olympics, not where
I was going. Do you know what else happened in
nineteen ninety six?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: What they cloned Dolly the Sheep? Oh yeah, okay, so yeah,
everybody remember, I mean, the cloning science has been around
for over one hundred years, but nineteen ninety six was
a pivotal moment when Dolly the Sheep was cloned and
everybody started asking questions.
Speaker 3: Dolly the Sheep? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So you've got Michael Douglas, a list incredible actor, right,
Michael Douglas. Okay, that's his real name. I always do that.
So you've got Michael Keaton.
Speaker 3: We're talking about ram Matcy in the Stone era.
Speaker 1: You've got Michael Keaton. You've got Annie McDowell, who had
you know she'd come off of Groundhog Day, which is
a huge success. You've got strong investment behind it, You've
got the cinematographer from Ghostbusters and some of the other
great movies. Right, You've got the special effects guys from
Ghostbusters and Star Wars working on these, you know, green
screen where we're getting different versions of Doug Kenny and
all the shots. It looks like a movie that has
to be a success, like Great Surefire, I mean, and
it comes out the same time as the cloning news
blows up.
Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense. I did you see this
in theaters?
Speaker 1: No, I saw this. This is interesting. I did not
see this movie until two days ago. I have never
had never seen this movie until two days Oh my.
Speaker 3: Gosh, I saw this in the theaters. Okay, yeah, so
ninety six wasn't even a strong movie year, right, No,
not a lot of competition. Okay, here are the movies
of ninety six, I mean, and I'm scraping the bottom
of a barrel for these. Okay, so we're talking about Twister, Yeah,
and Mission Impossible, The Rock, The Cable Guy, The Nutty Professor,
Strip Teas.
Speaker 1: These are the best movies of nineteen ninety six Independence Day.
I mean, these are not bad movies, but they're the best. Yes,
like this is these are second best movies to any
good year. Right.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean the Rock is great. You know,
an Independence Day is kind of fun, But yeah, these
are not It's not like dressed like ninety four or
something like that.
Speaker 1: Right, But Multiplicity, with a budget of forty five million dollars,
grossed twenty one million.
Speaker 3: Dollars, slarising. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I don't either.
Speaker 3: They talked about how they blamed it on the Summer Olympics. Yeah,
the Summer Olympics.
Speaker 1: All of the other movies had the Summer Olympics to
compete with against as well. That's not a reason.
Speaker 3: No, it seems like Ghostbusters did alright in eighty four, right.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes it did. That's hilarious. The question is
if you saw the movie back then, do you still
love it? Like, did you enjoy it back when you
saw it? And have you seen it multiple times?
Speaker 3: Since I saw this movie in the theater and I
laughed my rear off. Okay, there are definitely funny parts. Yeah,
of course, I was in my twenties and now as
a mid forties guy, I identify a little bit more
with Doug Kenney about his everything in life being in
an emergency and he's got to be here, here, here,
and here, and I certainly identify with that, but this
time around, I felt like he's just a little bit
more of a jerk, you know. He just didn't appreciate
his family and was angry all the time. And I
don't know, Michael Keaton is a fantastic actor. I can't
figure out what it is about this movie. I know
that people who saw it back in the nineties still
like I talked to Arlen and he's like, oh, yeah,
that's just one of those movies that we just go
to in my family and we just watch it and
it's just fun.
Speaker 1: Right. It's a Christmas vacation type of thing for a
whole lot of people. But for me, having never seen it.
I was watching it and there was a lot of
it was a lot of Okay, let's let's get this going,
let's have something happen here. And I had some laugh
out loud moments, But I was at the beginning, I
was like you, I was completely identifying it. I was
I was like, yeah, I hear you. I gotta do
I gotta take care of this. Dad's got to take
care of this. Dad's got to take care of this.
Dad's got to take care of this Who's going to
take care of dad? Right? Like, there's my job first,
then my family, and I'm like a distant third.
Speaker 3: Right bringing up the rear.
Speaker 1: Right, So with me, it's probably family first, job second,
and I'm still a distant third. So I identify with it, right,
I'm like strongly identifying. But it's not like making me
warm and fuzzy.
Speaker 3: It's just Okay, I've got a simple solution to making
Multiplicity a better movie. Okay, you ready for this? Okay,
So here's the kind of a list of sins that
Doug Kenney Michael Keaton's character makes in this movie. Okay, Yeah,
So he clones himself obviously without his wife's permission or
even knowledge. Whatever that amounts to that dollar amount. He
changes that three or four times, right. He also, you know,
when number two comes along, he gives up his family
and they have the same consciousness, the same everything, the
same experiences, and number two is like, yeah, fine, you
keep the family and you keep the wife, and.
Speaker 1: He's taking care of number one, and he's taking care
of number two so that he can get after taking
care of number three himself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they all, of course they all sleep
with his wife without her knowledge. This is terribly wrong.
Yeah right.
Speaker 1: That was one of the funnier parts.
Speaker 3: Of it was it was funny. It was funny. Funnier
part of the thing is is that she doesn't know
what's going on, and that's the problem, right, That is
what's different. In Groundhog Day, Bill Murray is trying to
bring her along and say, listen, I've got this problem
and can you help me with it? And in multiplicity
he just lies to her the entire time. Yeah, so
here's thing. Okay, they needed to have some moment in
the movie where they enlighten her. Yeah, okay, so here's
what I've been dealing with. Hey, here's number two, here's
number three, here's number four, and the oh my gosh,
freak out scene. And then here's how you fix it.
All you have this great dramatic moment where she's brought
into the problem and they solve the problem by get
this cloning her and then you got pairs and then
they go happily ever after. With their cloned pair.
Speaker 1: They go to start their own commune, and all eight
of them.
Speaker 3: If they I mean they didn't have any scruples about
these four guys, they clone her. They all get married
and they start a pizza place in Florida, and that's
how you wrap it all up. And everybody feels good
because she's in on it. They didn't light her the
entire time. They just treat her like crap the entire movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, okay, let's jump back to that because
that makes me think of something else. Let's jump back
to Groundhog Day. Okay, And well I'll share this story
with you and then we can jump in a cap.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, then put your little hand in mine.
Speaker 1: There no mountains, we can't fine. Okay, Shirley fans, rise
and shine and don't forget your booties because it's cool.
Speaker 3: It's cold out there every day. What is It's Miami Beach?
Speaker 1: Jason, do you have daja vo?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I can check in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: Do you think Phil is gonna come out and see
his shadow today?
Speaker 3: Took Satani Phil.
Speaker 1: That's right, Woodchuck chuckers.
Speaker 3: It's ground a day.
Speaker 1: All right. So in Groundhog Day, as we mentioned before,
Danny Ruben's original script had it starting in the middle, right, yes,
and it ends the same like it ends the same,
and he wakes up and it's a new day. It's
February third, right, but you know, keep in mind this
was the night that she spent the night with him.
And in Danny Rubin's script, the way that it played
out was he wakes up, he realizes it's a new day.
He's ecstatic, he's so excited, and he's talking to her
and she just kind of seems lukewarm and just kind
of right, and it turns out she's stuck in the
time loop on February third.
Speaker 3: I think that's genius.
Speaker 1: All right, it's absolutely great.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I understand why you want the Hollywood ending, right, you
want him to walk off into the snow set happily
ever after. But that is a brilliant end. I guess
I just got to say that is freaking brilliant.
Speaker 3: Just on a side note, I care less about Rita's
time loop. Yeah, I would have loved to have seen
ned Ryerson get caught in a time loop, right, Yeah, yes,
that would have been hilarious. So okay, So casting on
Groundhog Day, So the main character Phil Phil connors Buck's
Tonny Phil. They gave the part, of course to Bill Murray. Yes,
but they considered a group of Hollywood actors, all of
which I think would have been great. Yeah right, yeah,
we're talking Steve Martin, We're talking Chevy Chase, Kevin Klein.
And then Tom Hanks.
Speaker 1: Tom Hanks was their first offer. He turned it down.
Speaker 3: Tom Hanks turned it down. Yeah, you know what else.
They offered it to Michael Keat Michael Keaton, and he
also turned it down. He turned it down because he
didn't understand the story, right, and here's.
Speaker 1: This is this, this is how you can't you know,
the one of those you can't win for losing things.
He turns down this script. And then when he sees
how well Groundhog Day goes, he's like, oh, here's another opportunity.
Multiplicity got the same leading lady, I got the same director,
I've got several cast.
Speaker 3: Kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Perfect.
Speaker 3: Yeah, horse, oh that stinks. That stinks. So okay. So
Bill Murray gets offered the part or you know, Bill
Murray takes a part Harold Ramos Bill Murray. It's a
perfect marriage. Sure, And he's great in this right Oh yeah,
he's you know, the angry phil is spot on, the goofy, feel,
the confused, all that stuff works perfectly.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is this is the Bill Murray of the
Bill murray'st right. This is if I had to pick
the Bill Murray trilogy, where he is most Bill Murray,
it is the consecutive Scrooged, what about Bob and groundhog Day.
That is a good right there, because he's basically the
same guy and Scrooged and groundhog Day, but he's still
himself and goofy and obnoxious in a different way. And
what about Bob? We got to do what about Bob?
Speaker 3: So absolutely we didn't even really talk about the fact
that the last episode from season three that we just finished, yeah,
was Scrooge Versus Christmas Vacation. So the part of Rita
goes to Andy McDowell. Yes, did you hear who they
wanted for this part.
Speaker 1: This is why I depend upon you. I do not
look at casting because I know that you are going
to tell me these things.
Speaker 3: I thought this was fascinating. Okay, So they hired Andy mcdell,
who is sweet and genuine and cute.
Speaker 1: Great little southern South Carolina.
Speaker 3: She's got that Southern accent and she just is so
sweet and nice that we all love her. And at
times in the movie we don't know really whether Phil
deserves her or not, and we certainly don't want him
just to love her and leave her.
Speaker 1: Right as far as save the cat moments go, you
don't have one for Bill Murray's. You don't have one
for Phil in this one, right, he is not lovable
at the beginning. Bill Murray is almost unavoidably likable. But
it's Rita who has the kind of save the cat
moment because when you get introduced to her, she's playing
with the green screen and like looking at her hone
floating head and floating hands because she's got the blue
top on. In that moment, her just being kind of
innocent and silly, you fall in love with her right then,
which is exactly what you need. So here's who they
wanted for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tory Amos, I heard that. How about that?
Speaker 1: I mean they've got a similar look. But I mean,
I has Tory Amos been in anything.
Speaker 3: That I know of?
Speaker 1: I don't know. She's cute, but yeah.
Speaker 3: This girl has to be love a ball.
Speaker 1: There's something about Anny McDowell's face that is I mean
it's not it's not the kind of classic Hollywood leading
lady beautiful, but it's her face is amazing. It glows. Yeah,
it's just she's a very, very attractive lady.
Speaker 3: It's I can't really put my finger on it. Yeah,
because she's not Hollywood gorgeous, but she.
Speaker 1: Just something about her makes my teethirt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sugary sweet, Okay. And then you also have Chris
Elliott as the cameraman's Larry.
Speaker 1: Tell me what you think about Chris Elliott.
Speaker 3: I think he's perfect as the goofball. Can't get a
lady at the Bachelor's auction two minutes.
Speaker 1: You know, he is the most Like I just can't
understand his success at all. I couldn't understand it back then,
Like I have never really am in anything that I
thought he was believable or funny or anyone, I mean
the top. The best performance that he has is in
There's Something about Mary and even that, Yeah, even then,
he's just it's not good. It's just I just can't
figure out his fame at all. Their interesting connection there is.
Chris Elliott made his fame on The David Letterman Show.
It's kind of one of those side bit guys, right
and Letterman, very first guest, very first show Bill Murray.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's good, good call. There By the way, Chris
Elliott in the ABYSS. You know, I'm a James Cameron guy.
He's in the Abyss and he is a semi serious
character and he's fantastic. Okay, he nails it all right, Okay.
You also have Brian Doyle Murray as Buster Green. He's
like the guy who handles the you know, the the
groundhog on the day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the guy in the knots on the and
we are pretty confident he's also the guy on the radio.
Speaker 3: We Yeah, I definitely agree with you. I think he's
one of the guys on the radio.
Speaker 1: And this one, I mean that one I kind of got.
But this one you said just before we started recording,
and I think you're right. I haven't checked it out
or anything, and I don't even know if it's available
out there. But tell me who you think the second guy.
Speaker 3: I think the other guy is Steven Tobolaski Ned Ned
Ned the Head Needa knows Ned nang Ryerson.
Speaker 2: Phil Hey, Phil, Phil, Bill Connors, Phil Connorson. I thought
that was you.
Speaker 3: How you doing?
Speaker 1: Thanks for watching?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 1: Hey?
Speaker 2: Now don't you tell me you don't remember me because
I share his heck fire? Remember you not a chance,
ned Ryerson needle knows ned ned the head, Come up, buddy,
case Western High. Mad Ryerson, I did the whistling belly
button trick at the high school talent show. Bing mad
Ryerson got the shingles real bad senior year, almost didn't graduate.
Bing a again.
Speaker 3: Mad Ryerson.
Speaker 2: I dated your sister Mary Patt a couple of times
till you told me not to anymore.
Speaker 1: Well, ned Ryerson, Bang bang.
Speaker 3: Stephen Tobolaski steals the show with Bill Murray in the
same scene.
Speaker 1: I mean, this movie would not be the same movie
without ned Ryerson's part, right, Steven Toblaski. He gets this part,
and you told me tell me the story about how
he gets how he gets hired.
Speaker 3: Okay, so he's in this movie. He's shooting this movie
in Paris, California. Okay, Paris, California, Right, Yeah, and he
it's one of those weird deals. He said. This never happens,
but he is put like in the quality in with
another actor, and it's like they're bunk mates, like summer camp.
Like they're sleeping in the same room. You know, there's
your bed, here's my bed, he said. At night, they
would just kind of lay there with the lights out
and just kind of talk, just like you do in
summer camp.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So he became friends with this guy named Kurt Fuller
who's in this movie called Calendar Girl, and it's kind
of the movie he shot before Groundhog Day. Okay, so
one day he had a day off and he went down.
He had been contacted by Harold Ramis to audition for
the part of Ned Ryerson. Right, So he goes down
to the audition and he tells him, Hey, okay, brace yourself.
I'm gonna go all in on this, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. His quote, his quote was you may have to
scrape me off the walls with a spatula.
Speaker 3: He said. He even like examined Harold Ramis's zipper.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, that's what you told me, you Like, he
adjusted his zippers during the.
Speaker 3: Bit, right, got to zipper all the way up there. Hey,
you know what you need more live insurance? Right. So
he did this fantastic audition, right yeah, And so he
goes back the next night. Of course, he goes back
to the Quality Inn and he's with his buddy Kurt Fuller,
and they're sitting there and this is after the audition,
and Kurt Fuller says, so, do you have anything coming up?
Stephen Toblaski's like every actor hates to hear, yes, I do, right,
like I got stuff coming because it's always hard to
get stuff. And so he's just laying there. He's like, no, no,
nothing coming, right, and so he says, what about you,
and so Kurt Fuller says, yeah, I've got this part
that was written just for me. It's in the Harold
Raimis movie called groundhog Day, and I'm playing Ned Ryerson.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So he's sitting there and he's like, oh my gosh,
he's like dying. He's like, because why did they call
me if you've already been hired? And he's like, so
I didn't say anything. I couldn't tell him the truth, right,
And besides he didn't know if he got the part.
So like a couple days later, he realizes, I got
this part. I got the part of Ned Ryerson. I
stole it from this guy from his bunkmate, from his
bunk mate. And of course they call Kurt Fuller and
say you're out, and he said, well, who got it?
And he says Stephen Doblawski and he's furious with him.
His bunk mate. What are the odds?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: So here's the deal. At the premiere, Steven Tobolowski goes
in the movie Andy mcdowas his date because she doesn't
want a million guys to hit on her, so she
hangs out with him. Okay, and he protects her or whatever. Yeah,
Kurt Fuller comes down right to him, like directly walks
up to him. He's like, I'm sitting next to you
and we're gonna watch this together. Stephen told lusk Is like, crap,
I hope I'm good, you know, like, I hope this
is really good. And so they watch it. He doesn't
say anything. When they walk out, the guy says, I'm
still mad and you stole that. He goes, but at
least she did a good job.
Speaker 1: That is great, And he's Steve Toblawski has probably played
that same type of guy as just that you know,
that side character in so many different things. If we
have any Glee fans out there, there's an episode that
has Josh Grobin in it. Okay, and Stephen Toblawski plays
this like he's a member of a barbershop quartet kind
of deal. And he is also like an obsessive fan
of Josh Grobin. And so my kids routinely when they
don't like something that is being said, they'll say this,
And this is a quote from Stephen Tobolasky's Glee episode.
He's talking about Josh Grobin is going to be there,
and one of the other Barbershop Quartet guys is like,
who's Josh Grob? And he's like, who's Josh Grob? And
kill yourself? Oh yes, great, Yeah, So that's that's a
routine line from here. And and Arlen Bullard are my
dear friend and one of our listeners. Every time that
this movie comes up, well, we we're like, all right,
all right, all right, right, right right.
Speaker 3: I enjoy him in the movie Sneakers. Have you ever
seen Sneakers.
Speaker 1: In the theater back in the nineties.
Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh. So it's a great movie. Robert Redford,
Dan Akroyd River, Phoenix, Sidney Potier. It's a lot of fun.
It's kind of the early computer hacker movie.
Speaker 1: Right. Well.
Speaker 3: Stephen Tobolaski's character is the guy they're trying to steal
the password for to get in. He uses his voice
as a passport, and they're trying to get him to
say the word passport. Anyway, he's really good in Sneakers
as well.
Speaker 1: Now, obviously, like you said, you got Brian Dolmurray in there. Yes,
there are some parts that you may not recognize the
actor or you didn't recognize him back then, but now
on the rewatch you'll go, oh my gosh. And one
of those is mister Michael Shannon as young high school Fred.
Speaker 3: That's so that blew my mind.
Speaker 1: Right, And if and if you don't remember the scene,
I'll give you the line, which I'm pretty sure he
tapped into that same acting vibe when he said.
Speaker 3: I will find him, I will find him. The guy
who plays General Zod and Man of Steel is a
team goober in this.
Speaker 1: Movie, absolutely goober over acting over the top. But mister
Michael Shannon, yeah, you've got You've got several guys who
you know from movies, like the guy from the Burbs
is one of the drum guys that he hangs out with.
Speaker 3: That's true. He's also in die Hard. This guy shuts
down the power grid and die Hard Yeah Central, Yeah, Yeah,
this is Wald down at Knakotomy.
Speaker 1: Say listen, would it be possible for you to turn
off Grid two twelve. Are you maybe I should call it? Yeah? Yeah,
but they a lot of these guys go on and
we'll jump into casting now for multiplicity. Yeah, they're in
multiplicity as well. Right, for multiplicity, you've got Brian Doyle
Murray again. Yeah, he's the boat captain, right is and
his is it girlfriend or daughter? I can't even tell
what she's supposed to be, but that's a young Julie Bowen.
She was a girlfriend, happy to get more free, modern family,
all of that stuff. Yes, beautiful lady, and so she
just so cute back then. But then you've also got
the lady who's the waitress in Groundhog Day. Is the
lady when he comes to take the pictures, comes to
take the ballerina pictures. She's the receptionist. She's like, yeah,
we did you not get the call? We rescheduled that
too next week and he's like, no, you're taking the
pictures today. She's like, no, we're taking him next week.
He's like, no, you're taking them. Find a photographer, right, Yeah,
So same actors there, So you got a lot of crossover,
and then you have some crossover from Ghostbusters too.
Speaker 3: Yes, so you've got the actor Harris Eulen, and he
plays doctor Leeds in Multiplicity.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: He plays the judge at the beginning Ghostbusters too, who's
like banging the galvel, gonna sentence the Ghostbusters to like
twenty years hard labor. Yeah, and then of course the
ghost pop out.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: He also is on an episode of Fraser. I always
remember him from this. He was a mob boss on Fraser.
Oh okay, somebody should do a podcast on Fraser.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a good idea.
Speaker 3: Also, you've got Richard Masser. He's like Doug's boss in Multiplicity.
Speaker 1: Oh right, right, right, yes, the guy from the Thing.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, the guy who handles the dogs and the Thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Of course he gets shot by Kurt Russell like twenty
minutes into the movie.
Speaker 1: But I guess he wasn't an alien. I guess that
makes you guilty of Mark.
Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, that's right. I mean he's totally wasted
in Multiplicity. Right.
Speaker 1: And then of course you've still got Anny McDowell, same
female lead in this one. And you've got Glenn Shaddicks.
Oh yes, I know you're looking confused right now. You
remember Beetlejuice O fat sort of effeminatee guy who's like
the real estate guy or whatever, art dealer, whatever he is.
He's the building inspector in Multiplicity.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: Both, of course, with Michael Keaton and them, you also
have Eugene freaking Levy Vick Vick, the guy who is
habitually late and habitually like. His very first scene is
what you don't like the job? Oh, I think you're
doing a great job. It's the wrong driveway. Right. So
the name of his company is Dependable Concrete. He's not
dependable at all. And then dependable is spelled d E
p E N d I b l E. He spells
the word wrong in his company name on his truck. Gosh,
you gotta have you if you're if you're hurting for
comedy a little bit, you gotta throw Eugene Levy in there,
and you're gonna be in good ship.
Speaker 3: They waste him as well.
Speaker 1: Could have been could have been more useful, for.
Speaker 3: Sure, by the way. You also kind of I don't
know the guy's name, Yeah, but he plays Q in
Star Trek Next Generation.
Speaker 1: Oh right, right, as the kind of like his partner. Yeah,
and he puts him in the when he goes into
the porty potty. He has the forklift come and take
it away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: I know somebody who actually did that to somebody, not
to use the forklift, but like locked a guy in
the porta potty and then turned it over.
Speaker 3: Not cool.
Speaker 1: No, he had it coming though, same as Q. Okay,
then funny And then if we can't forget and Cusack,
the lesser known Cusack symbol sibling, not Joan, not John. Yeah,
there is a There is a third Cusack sibling and
her name is Ann.
Speaker 3: Who does she play?
Speaker 1: She's like the love interest for number two, right, he's
he's in the the Girl the rest, Yes, yeah, who
catch with? Who he flirts with and all that other stuff.
Speaker 3: Yes, So I watched it behind the scenes making a
thing where she was narrating. Yeah, and I'm looking at
Arghana that looks like Joan Cusack, but that's not Joan Cusack.
Speaker 1: That's exactly you were right on both counts.
Speaker 3: Yes, who the heck is and Csack?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: By the way, the restaurant scene where number two and
number one see each other and with different girls hilarious. Yeah,
I left my butt off in the movie theater at
that scene, then they get switched. Great comedy, fun times.
Speaker 1: Good good. Okay, So that does it for casting. Guys.
Come back next week and we're going to talk about
production reception, all of those wonderful things. Thank you so
much for tuning in. Be sure and hit that follow button.
Be sure and hit that subscribe button so you catch
all of the fascinating stories next week.
Speaker 3: That's right. Thank you for joining us on Grand Day.