Speaker 1: What is up, Fellow Sikos. I am Dan Fa Valley,
joined by my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes,
we put out the Time Capsule podcast where you could
listen to two hours of Grant and I grading the
twenty twenty three off season for every Western Conference team.
You know what it's time to do now, Grant, actually
take ownership of those grades and regrade the twenty twenty
three off season for every Western Conference team. For anyone worried,
rest assured. We're going to get to this off season's
grades for us, We found it makes sense to actually
wait until later because then when we go back and
regrade things, there's less for us to you know, like
additional stuff for us to consider. And also no one's
doing off season grades like at the end of August
early September, like they've already moved on from that, and
so we stand out a little bit. We've had time.
You pointed this out, Grant, One, how are you? But
two you're also a genius because you said it keeps
us removed from the like that initial knee jerk reaction.
You're going to be more impassioned and haven't had as
much time to critically think about the grades. So this
offseason's grades are coming, but for now, we're going to
regrade the Western Conference offseason and the Eastern Conference regrade
will come next week. And with that, mister Hughes, how
the heck are you?
Speaker 2: I'm prepared to be accountable? Isn't that? Isn't that what
the expectation is today? Are you prepared to be accountable?
I actually like I didn't really look. I know, we
have our grades up. I'm looking at them right now.
And this is gonna be an exercise where I feel
like I'll spend most of the time trying to reverse
engineer why I thought what I thought, because I'm believe
it or not, I don't remember the logic behind what
I thought a year ago at this time.
Speaker 1: Do you know what's sick? Our dedication here? And also
this hardwood Knox merch Sickle Mode collection. You should go
purchase it the links of the podcast and YouTube description.
I went back and listened to all two hours plus
of us at what speed? Two time speed? That's as
fast as well, you can go faster, but I did
two time speed because I talked so fast that anything
faster than that is just like drivele and so I
like some of my logic on the things now stretch
my mind, which I think will make it better. And
it's like, oh, kind of what was I thinking there?
But I'm interested to see where we kind of shift
from and for anyone, the way we're gonna do this
is like we'll hit the greatest hits, like we'll talk
about the transactions that kind of define the offseason. If
you want to see basically a full complete transaction lot,
I will have it up on screen on YouTube. So
if you really want to use the butt, we're not
going to sit there and list off every move like
we typically do for the Grace, because we'll be here
for two plus hours then.
Speaker 2: Or one plus if you want to listen to this, well,
we'll be here for two hours, but you can knock
get out as a listener in one if you go
two x, which is two x is too fast for me.
I can't do it like one point five, maybe one
point seventy five if it's purely informational.
Speaker 1: Oh, I've done two point five before, like because it's
easier to change it on your compute to go up.
I've done two point five. That's too much stuff to
consume and too much stuff to do. I can't be
sitting there listening to podcasts at one one speed like.
Speaker 2: A normal human. Yeah, okay, well good for you. I
always am concerned that after I listen to a podcast
that accelerated speed, that I go around speaking to people
like way too fast. Like I think I'm like all
hopped up. I don't know if that's actually how I
come across, but that's my I think you're.
Speaker 1: Just so excited about whatever subject you're talking about at
the time, it's it's infectious. You hear the person talking fast,
it's excitement. That's what is with me. I get to
talk with Grant, I'm just through the moon, over the moon, excited,
and so it's becomes infectious. Now you're going to talk
fast for the rest of the day.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe, or I'll be burned out from talking. We'll see.
Let's start, shall we Denver Nuggets, We're starting. We're starting
with them traded at twenty nine first to the Thunder
with top five protection for a couple of years and
number the number forty pick Maxwell Lewis to the Lakers.
They get back Julian Straw, the Jalen Pickett Hunter Tyson,
who make up kind of this young core guys that
now are going to be pressed into more duty this year.
That's the that's not the topic of this podcast. Reggie
Jackson came back two years ten point three million. Can't
wait to hear you speak about that one, because I
do remember that from last year sign Strawther four years,
twelve and a half million, two fully guaranteed sign pickets signed.
Tyson brought back, are brought in. Justin Holliday resigned DeAndre Jordan.
That's kind of the extent of the there's.
Speaker 1: Some two wedn't we didn't miss anything too. It's like
there's nothing It'll be denoted on the screen if you're
watching on YouTube and white I think is the font
color I chose. But there's nothing here that they did
groundbreaking lye that should change our grade. And so first
time around, Grant, do you well, I guess we're both
looking at it. So you're obviously gonna know I gave
them a D plus. You gave them a C minus. Yeah,
would you like to when we do actual grades, we'll
have to save it to the end. But because this
is a regrade, I guess it makes more sense to
do it at the beginning, Do you feel better or
even before human do you feel better or worse about
the off season they had in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: Now, I don't know if I feel all that different
because because like I think, you know the draft machinations,
I understand the theory of it. Now, none of those
guys like really popped and never really had the opportunity to.
Maybe that happens this year. I think the big difference
between us was like you and not saying you were wrong.
The Reggie Jackson deal two for ten point three with
a player option. It's like, why is Reggie Jackson getting
a player option? He was not a difference maker. He was,
but he wasn't like a catastrophe.
Speaker 1: Okay, But but because you had that player option, you
end up have any give up three second round picks.
That's the true rid of him, That's true.
Speaker 2: Do we factor that? I guess we factor that in
because they put themselves in that position.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's how this impacted it. I mean, it's gonna
get really dicey when we get to the Clippers because
the James Harden trade did not happen in the offseason.
But you have to wait well, what was the point
of waiting when you gave up what he did and conceded.
So with the Nuggets. Look, I'm just gonna come out
flat out and say it. I think you can feel
better about specifically Julian Straw before he got injured, be
like okay, Like I could see the theory of him.
Why do you feel why Like, aside from that, unless
you're really on the Hunter Tyson or jail and Pickett
bandwe I said, why would you feel better? I justin
holiday worked that well for them. This is just like,
I'm gonna stick with a D plus. They didn't do
anything to like to shift my view, and I could
be talked into going lower because our feet my fear
anyway kind of came to pass with the Reggie Jackson stuff.
It's just it's not at a high level enough. Already
dinged them with the D plus. If you think Julian
Strather is eventually going to be the third best player
on the Nuggets, then by all means jack up your grade.
But from where I'm standing, that's the only reason to
change the grade of this team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if I were moving one way or
the other, I'm gonna stay at a C minus. It
just like feels slightly below average. I do think we
should mention that, like, you know, as we discussed a
million times last year at this time, couldn't have kept
Bruce Brown, you know, so that that's got very little
to do I think for me and certain and for
both of us of why this is a below average grade.
Jeff Green also got away two years nineteen point two million,
ended up in Houston, Like, Okay, I don't know if
you're not gonna again, like if you were going to
go higher, it would just be on the basis of
the thinking behind giving up a future first, a fairly
distant future first, to get three guys like late first,
early seconds that like you know, it's just like a
shotgun approach, like maybe one of these guys is gonna pop.
But if you're gonna go up in the grade, you're
just basing that on like speculation that that's gonna happen,
because it didn't happen last year. Not that that's fair,
because this was a title contender that brought in a
bunch of rookies and it's.
Speaker 1: Like, these guys, what scenario would both to win the title?
Last year?
Speaker 2: By the way, Yeah, and and and like, well, so
that that's where it goes.
Speaker 1: The other way, it's like, why did you want a
bunch of young guys that just like, no way, you're
trying to help you, You're trying to do the that's
more of a that might be more of a conversation
for their actual twenty four off season grades. Now that
can tavey of Calopope's and I understand what they're trying
to do. It just so rarely works. I can appreciate
the swing, but it might be a level of TVD
because you want to see what Pickett and Tyson and
Strauther still turn into. And I think Strather specifically, he's
gonna have a I would assume like a pretty regular
role next year, but as of right now, there's this
has done nothing. Drew Justin Holliday was a little bit
better than I expected, Julian Strather was. I'm more intrigued
by him than I was expected, but like I'm probably
less intrigued with Jalen Pickett at this point, so it's
it's a wash for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Minnesota, Minnesota.
Speaker 1: Timberwolves, so uh they the thing we missed so you
could see they signed Anthony Edwards at the time he
got his extension, it was a max deal. They re
signed Nazrie three years, forty two million. There's some second
round pick trades in there. They signed Nikkei Alexander Walker
to a two year, nine million dollar contract. They signed
Shake Milton to a two year, ten million dollar contract
that was non guaranteed. He's the longer on the team.
Signed Troy Brown Junior two years, eight million dollar deal
non guaranteed. In here two and the thing that we
the grade came in. So the grades you're gonna hear
that we gave was before the Jayden McDaniels extension, which
we actually talked about specific numbers for it. Do you
remember he won't remember. You and I were wondering if
like forty years and one forty was a good number
for him. They got in for five years and one
hundred and thirty one million dollars. It could go up
to one hundred and thirty six million. I still feel thought, like, well,
we it wasn't caked in the grade, but even after
the regular season he had on offense. He came alive
during the playoffs. But it's fair to be concerned the
regular season is longer. This is the deal that I
just feel perfectly like if the Timber was, I'm like, okay,
like we knocked this one out of the park.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well you were slightly higher. You had
an A minus and I had a B plus. I
imagine that if the McDaniels deal had been a part
of this, and based on what you claim we said,
which I don't remember as far as the years and dollars,
we probably would have gone higher, right just because oh,
that's such a bargain for McDaniels on top of everything else.
I could imagine. I mean, you'd had to get to
a flat A, which is kind of a big oh.
Speaker 1: And look I'm rising it here they get an A plus.
What did they do wrong? I mean, the don Reed
deal looks way better than it did at the time,
and we loved it. The and the Edwards deal, it
was always going to look fine. And Okay, now now
it's he's gonna get the thirty percent max, so he's
actually not getting it becomes like five and whatever it
is now like two? Was it forties?
Speaker 2: You're ecstatic if you're the wolves that you are being
more now.
Speaker 1: Though, so like there's there's no it's Okay, Shake Milton
didn't really become a part of the team. It over
Troy Brett whatever, Like you hit on the Keith Alexander
Walker there. So I'm gonna go to an A plus
and just they made it to the conference finals coming
off a year in which people were kind of not
this podcast shout out to us, but off a year
in which people were counting that what did they miss?
Like what is the you're gonna miss on the Shake
Miltons and the Troy Browns, but the core of your
off season they hit right on everything, like even the
I thought, I still like the Leonard Miller deal, Like
you gave up two seconds to go get Leonard Miller
at number thirty three. Okay, you don't necessarily see the
long term fit on this team, but he's so I mean,
he's done some filthy things in the Glee, So I
go A plus.
Speaker 2: I don't know what you want, ring, I'll just keep
a similar level a jump. I'll go to A. The
A plus to me, it's like it was perfect and
you did mention like a couple of these things didn't
work out, but they got all the big business right,
So yeah, it's gotta go up I mean just looking
at the list, everything that really mattered was a hit
and so I don't know, you can't move down and
I think it, Yeah, they definitely look better.
Speaker 1: This is the no notes, like we're gonna spend less
time on them than because what was there to What
did you want them to do that they missed out on?
It's okay. The problem they had was could they have
gotten some more just shot creation, secondary ball handling beyond
Mike Conley and Anthony Edwards. It's they didn't have a
ton of resources to do that. And I thought Shake
Milton at the time, I thought it was a reasonable gamble.
There's no one they missed out on though, where it
was like, oh, you would have been way better for them,
and they would have won the title if they.
Speaker 2: Had And even those I don't know if you said it,
but they're both Milton and Brown had non guarantees on
the second year. And what didn't they trade Brown? I
forget now or maybe they.
Speaker 1: Ended up I think they trade both. Didn't they end
up trading both of them? Shake Milton was part of
the Monte Morris deeelf, I'm not mistaken. That sounds right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So either way, they were gonna be off the
hook for those and that's not like they're catastrophic. They
paid five million for one guy and four for the
other and then they're just clean.
Speaker 1: So we can move on to the Oklahoma City funder
they did. They were part of that Julian They were
on the other side of the Julian Strather trade. They
also they this is interesting to look back on now, Grant.
They traded Derek Lively, which was number twelve, for pick
number ten Casey and Wallace and took back Damas Berton's
He was guaranteed twenty two point five million through twenty
twenty four twenty twenty five. He ends up getting traded Charlotte.
They capitalized by waving him with the five million partial guarantee.
They ended up with Victor Oladepo on the team. The
thing that we missed that just didn't have room to
included on the graphic. It's too negligible, though, is they
did trade. I think it was like, was it on
opening night or just before it? They traded for Kevin
Porter Junior and then waved him so they could get
two seconds from the rockets. That's right, that far removed
from the situation because of the Kevin Porter junior domestic
violence issues, which we went into at length, so you
can go back and listen to us talk about the
actual issue there. I still think that they shouldn't have
done it because they were able to capitalize on his
domestic violence allegations, but I don't think it's gonna materially
change my grade for them here when I look at
They also signed Vasilli Michez three years, twenty three point
six million dollars. They ended up moving him as well.
It was a team option on year three though. So
what's interesting about this team I think for what I'm
zeroing in on is that trade for Caseon Wallace. I
destroyed the Thunder last year, Grant, and that's We've gotten
complaints in the comments that I'm too much of a thunder.
The skateboard guy is too much of a thunder fanboy.
I've now seen twice our names. I guess that's on
my fault. I should put our handles back on. We
have names. You don't have to just call us the
if you're watching this show. We have names. I'm Grant,
he's Dan, so identify us as.
Speaker 2: Both of skateboards.
Speaker 1: What else? Yeah, look there it is names, So I
gave them a C minus. They shouldn't. Here's my thing.
Derek Lively is better than I ever could have anticipated,
But so is Casean Wallace, And so I still think, okay,
see didn't get enough run out of its cap space.
But because you ended up like I like the idea
of having the distant Denver first in your back pocket
now and then because I really love case and I
picked Casey Wallace for first team All Rookie, So like
did I'm coming in from that perspective. I feel like
I kind of have to bump them up and say
it because, like I guess Micha didn't work out and
they use him to go get Gordon Hayward, who also
doesn't work out. I think I have to go to
like probably a B minus. The gamble for Cason Wallace
was absolutely reasonable at this point, I could probably even
be talked into a bee. Is that too high? What
should I be doing here? Well?
Speaker 2: I'm curious, Sue, I just like, what if what if
they just took Lively? Aren't they in a are they
in a better?
Speaker 1: Okay? Here's my thing about that is is Derek okay?
Derek Lively? Is he going to have been the difference, Like,
would they they view chet Holm Grin as a center yea.
And so if you're getting Derek Lively, I know he's cheaper,
but you kind of want to view him as a
core piece. Would he have gotten as many developmental reps
in Oklahoma City as he did in Dallas.
Speaker 2: It's so hard to know, because I was gonna ask
as I was thinking, well, but who, like, if you're
just in a vacuum trading Derek Lively or case and
Wallace today, who's getting you more in return? I feel
like it's probably Lively. But your point, your point is
correct that had he been on the Thunder, I don't
know what we would think about him. Maybe it'd be
the same. Uh. But I just maybe he also would
have just not gotten to play enough. That's also a possibility.
I don't know. I'm I'm I think maybe you can Maunite.
You remember was a lot of the below average grade
because we had the same grade here a C minus
tied to the well. So your cap space went to
taking on Davas Berton's Basically, I.
Speaker 1: Can imagine we should push back from Thunder fans, and
by the way we turned out, right on this, so
hashtag victory lap. So maybe I'll maybe I'll stick go
to a CE because I'm in love with Cason Wallace
was the arment was, well, they're gonna be able to
use Davias Bretons to make this deal with the deadline
that makes the materially better. Guess what, they made a deal.
It did not pan out. I thought it wasn't reasonable
dice roll, but it didn't pan out. And so the
whole theory of why it was okay to take on
Damas Breton's is this, he's this expendable salary filler. It
did not play out the way the best case scenario way,
so and even just they probably expected message to play
more of a role, or maybe they didn't put the
contract they signed him to what certainly to me things
that they did. This is coming across as us destroying them.
I mean, I guess it's time that we say something
not like oh eleven of ten, no notes on the thunder.
I'm so big a believer in Case and Wallace and
I don't like what's the opportunity. Look at where they're
at now with Isaiah Hartenstein and Alex Caruso. They didn't
like to be set up to do that. I'm gonna,
you know what, this is purely because of caseon Wallace
and the Denver trade. I'm gonna go to a B minus.
And the only reason I won't go higher is because
Derek Lisley is really fucking good.
Speaker 2: That's where I'm stuck to. I get like we're just
we're talking about hypotheticals. I guess like looking at where
the Thunder have strengths, it's in the guard and wing section,
and Wallace Wallace just it may struggle for a long
time to have a larger role than he currently has,
just because the Thunder are so loaded. I think he's
going to be like Wallace's floor is a phenomenal role player,
Like that's he's gonna be that. He is basically that
right now. I wonder though I'm hung up on live.
Speaker 1: I'm going to move Beverly thought he was at one point.
Speaker 2: I'm going to move them to a C, which is
still moving up. But I'm hung up on well what
about what if they just had taken lively?
Speaker 1: This is bad podcasting. We need to remember to note
this at the beginning next time. C is a good grade?
You have pasked it's the d's and the fs that
you really if you want to get mad or be
sad about that, C is average. And so if you
think the Thunder had an above average offseason last year,
B minus is above average. C is is average, So
we should have noted that.
Speaker 2: And the argument that we'll look where the Thunder are today.
So therefore this has to be an a that's.
Speaker 1: Not nothing to do with the off season of season.
Speaker 2: That just that's not that's like we agree if you've
listened to this at all, like we we we again,
like you said eleven or ten no notes on the Thunder,
This was just a fine to me.
Speaker 1: I would just like to say on behalf of the
comments sectionion. Finally, the Lionel Messi character says something negative
about the Thunder.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks, thank you, skateboard guy.
Speaker 1: On to the Portland Trailblazers.
Speaker 2: We sure can. I'll go down to go through this one.
Here they drafted the Scoot Henderson at number three. I
seem to recall we both like that drafts.
Speaker 1: By the way, this is spoiler. We're gonna have some
things to walk back on the Eastern Conference Part podcast
with them. Just that one.
Speaker 2: I love I love to walk back Chris Murray at
number twenty three. Uh drafted Brian Rupaer at forty three.
He got a three year deal signed Jeremy Grant. That's
a big one. Five years, one hundred and sixty. He
has a player option on the last year. That match
the three for thirty one on the tees table. That
was fun. Remember that was it Dallas. Dallas signed him, right,
that's the offer sheet. A couple two way transactions here.
Oh did they do anything else? Dan? We hadn't happened yet.
Speaker 1: Remember the whole reason we waited last year until I
think it was like August twenty something or eighteenth or
whatever it was. It was like, well, we need to
see how that Damian Lillard's stuff plays out. And guess
what Grant.
Speaker 2: It played out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, went to dollars for every time I went too soon, guy, So, uh,
this does not factor into the grade.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it's gonna do for the regrade
traded Dame Lillard used Nurkich, Kean Johnson, and NOAs Little
for Drew Holliday, DeAndre eight and Tamani Kamara. Or yeah,
I guess he'd already been picked by Phoenix twenty eight
first first round swap from Milwaukee at twenty nine first
uh from Milwaukee at twenty thirty first round swap from Milwaukee,
then flipped Holiday to Boston for Brogden Robert Williams the third,
another first which became bub Carrington, who is which became
Denny Avdia became Denny Avdia and a twenty. So, I mean,
how do you want to tackle this because you know
what ninety percent of what? Well, I guess there's a
lot to talk about here because Scoot is a big deal,
the Grant contracts a big deal, and then obviously the
couple trades are huge.
Speaker 1: So it's why didn't we go with a TBD for
this team where we're just not convinced that Damian Lolland
was going to be true Because I gave them first
time around a C minus. You were more generous. I
gave it. That was a that's a pretty big difference
for us. We tend to have like dual group thing here.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: I think I look back on this offseason more fondly
than I did before. I don't know about you, and
I think the hall they got for Damian Lillard when
he was so obviously trying to get to one team
is impressive. I mean, like you turned him into effectively,
It's just like, so you turn him into Denny Avdia
and then you turned him into the Milwaukee first and
the two swaps and plus Robert Williams the third, Like
that's the crux and you by the way, I view
this isn't that positive? Deandrayton's like, is his deal worse
than Nurkices? Right now? I was gonta say, you got
off Nurkic, but like he also ended up with Deandreton
and the other by the way, the other guy like
that they got who is like he's a hashtag guy
or a tap slot guy. Tamanti Kamara can guard no
fewer than four and a half positions. And so I
look back on them deciding to actually move on from
Damian Lillard, even if they kind of dragged it out
so that he had to initiate it. I view that
as a positive. The things that I have questions about,
I'm fine, the cap is going up, and he played
really well last year and did not ruin their ability
to get a top draft pick. The Jeremy Grant DEALM
just kind of whatever. I think that if fans believe
they need to get like three first round picks for him,
they're out of their minds. They're not gonna get that.
But I think I think his deal is gonna just
be movable. I don't think he's gonna be their long term.
I don't know if he'll get traded this season. I
think he could get traded, and it wouldn't shock me
if in when he does. If they got multiple first
round picks, I feel a little bit more and easy.
I love the Chris Murray pick. I loved the Scoot
Henderson pick. I don't know if I loved the Scoot
Henderson pick as much as you loved the Scoot Henderson pick,
but obviously not before I throw it to you. I'm
not dinging them for not selecting Brandon Miller because I
really do believe that Scoot Henderson is still going to
be really good, and so while Brandon Miller is better
and just much better overall than we thought, I personally
cannot especially for what they needed if you were going
to get rid of Damian Lillard like Scoot which and
also Brendan Miller's off the board. So am I talking
about they drafted at number three. So I'm an idiot
if you wanted them to go with a Thompson twin.
I just I'm and Thompson's great. I love Astar Thompson,
but I don't view the Scoot selection. I might be
more neutral on it now, like oh, it's well you
were obligated to take him, rather than like, oh my god,
you fell to them, right, I don't view it in
a negative light.
Speaker 2: Well, so so you were lower on that. So like
maybe the question is this take out the Damian Lillard
trade and just just like Regrade made what we talked
about when we did this last year, are you higher
or lower on what Portland did exclusive of the Damian
Lillard trade?
Speaker 1: That's like an unfair question.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just curious, it's not you know, I'm just
because I'm I would have to be lower.
Speaker 1: In the rookie season that Scoot Henderson had, you would
have to be lower. But the context of this, I
mean he was dealing with injuries, his role of coming
off the bench. Like so you have to feel what
you can't feel better about Scoot Henderson today than you
did when he was drafted. There was the the car
drove off the lot factor to it. What I ding
them for on the re listen is because I thought
they were chicken shits when it came to Jamian Lillard
is that you should have just made the decision. I
thought it took Gaul to take Scoot Henderson, which I
applauded them for, but you still made Damian Lillard kind
of initiate the breakup, and I thought that was like real,
like I don't want to use the word cowardly, but
it was lame, Like you should have just you probably
would have created an even better Mark Frothier market for him,
and you've been the one that made the decision.
Speaker 2: So I I I came in at with a B.
Are you gonna go over the top of the B
including the Damian Lillard trade now in your regrade?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because just look at it, by the way, if
you want it to feel better independent the Damian Lillard trade,
I really do think it's the Jeremy Grant deal. I
just don't. It was viewed as so much more toxic
because we were all collectively you and I did frame
as a percentage of the salary cap. But you're still
just oh, five years, one hundred and sixty million, five
years and one hundred and sixty million through his age thirty
four season. Right. I was just like, oh, right, like
he could be like your seventh guy and that's fine.
So I'm exaggerating obviously, So I'm I think we might
still differ on this. I'm gonna go to an A minus.
Speaker 2: I was thinking B plus or A minus, just because
I do think when it all finally shook out moving
on from Lillard and somehow finding leverage when he was,
like you said, just trying to get to the Heat,
and the Blazer's deserve credit for saying like, no, we're
just gonna make this a rough situation until we get
something we actually want and we don't like we're not
behold into where you want to go. And nobody, by
the way, now is mad at the Blazers for quote
unquote treating Dame that way.
Speaker 1: You know, like that that was an editor, Barry Jackson,
who I'm sure is very well connected within the Heat organization.
It still seems very angry about it. So I don't
know if he has equity in the Heat or just
like did he bet, like did he place a bet?
I'm wonder Damie Liloer was gonna end up, but he
seems to be trolle whatever opportunity I see. Someone send
me a tweet of like Barry Jackson trolling the Blazer's
front office.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I need to come up to
an A minus too, just partly, I mean even with like,
obviously I'm not as high on Scoot Henderson now as
I was, just because I thought I drank the kool
aid on Scoot. For sure, he could still be great,
but it's just like you said, you can't be you
can't feel as good now as you did a year ago.
And just to be consistent, like we always are pushing
teams to just like pull the ripcord when it's clear
that they need to, and Portland did that and that
wasn't a factor in our grade last year. So I
got to just meet you at the AMI.
Speaker 1: But I want to ask you a question though, because
this doesn't factor into our regrade. Would you rather have
Denny Avdia or Malcolm Brogden not expiring the number fourteen
pick which became bub Carrington and then that twenty twenty
nine first, what would you rather have in a vacuum?
Speaker 2: What is there other protections on the first.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty nine, I do not believe, so I
can double check that.
Speaker 2: Though I really like Avdia, it's weird. I was annoyed
that the Wizards traded him. I thought, oh, you just
why would you get rid of that guy? His contract
is so reasonable, we both are in the bag for him.
I think I still might rather have that pick and
the salaries of set Brogden salary that you could move.
I think I might rather have the.
Speaker 1: Ice side of it. So just for the details on
the pick, for anyone listening, I know Grant knows this.
It is the second most favorable of Boston, Milwaukee, or Portland,
and so I think, because it's not the most favorable,
I'll go with Denny Avdya. And also I've become I'm
probably gonna say some pretty inflammatory things about bub Carrington
before he ever takes the floor. But uh, I like
the path, like his role in Washington. I'm gonna like
way more than if he had been in Portland, where
you're just not gonna have the runway to explore what
they can with him on the ball. So I think,
knowing what was available at number fourteen, in the fact
that you still get the most favorable of those picks.
I think Denny Avvid is just amazing, and honestly, I
don't know. I thought the Wizards. I didn't love it
for them at first, but I'm kind of just like
we want them to be bad and like get the bike,
Like Denny Avida wasn't gonna be the best player on
a title contender, and like Portland's kind of building this
interesting defensive identity between him and Clingon and Jeremy Grant,
and you have Thiball and Toumani Kamara there like they
could do it. But Delano Banton still there this year
is too far into But I was just curious where
you landed as to what you'd rather have. Those assets
are it's.
Speaker 2: Bad podcasting, but I don't have a strong feeling either way.
Like I love Avdya, but I if you're rebuilding, I
like those assets too. So I mean it seems like
a fairly reasonable.
Speaker 1: Dealing onto the Utah Jazz. Yeah. So they drafted Taylor
Hendricks at number nine, speaking of me saying some pretty
spicy things. I was elated about that, Kante George at
number sixteen, and Bryce sends Abot number twenty eight. They
had the Jordan Clarkson renegotiate and extend for worth three
years and fifty five million. So he made twenty three
and a half last year and he will now make
fourteen point one this coming season, followed by fourteen point
three in the final year. Uh there was They traded
Rudy Gay in Memphis twenty twenty six second for John Collins.
H he has two years left on his deal. As
a re record, This and nothing else the only Yeah,
we didn't miss anything huge, so nothing else super noteworthy.
If you want the transaction log, check it out on
YouTube if you're not there already. I'm pretty Utah, I
gave an a and you gave an a minus. Why
think about those?
Speaker 2: Why were we so high on this? Was it just
the draft?
Speaker 1: Do you know why we were so high? It was because, oh,
like they're clearly taking the long view and like this
time they're going to make sure they're bad enough that's
right to be a top lottery team. And John Collins
cost nothing too. It's just like, so I still don't
even view that as a bad deal. It's just something
that maybe hasn't panned out ideally. But is he the
source of like why they hate Walker Kessler.
Speaker 2: Now that's gonna well, you know what I heard somebody,
Now I can't remember who it was. There were like
intimations that Walker Kessler's a little soft. This is just
me repeating what someone.
Speaker 1: Like like like his physique or no, like he's not
like I don't know, it's it's coach speak, but like
doesn't quite have the like killer instinct or like I'm
gonna smash this guy, like get over you know that
kind of thing.
Speaker 2: I really it was. All I can remember is that
it was someone whose opinion on the Jazz I thought
was like, oh, that's a credible opinion. It might I don't.
I don't think it was Tony Jones. But it was
someone where you'd say, like, Okay, that person knows what
they're talking about. It wasn't like some this is a
terrible way to like relay secondhand information. But that's not.
Speaker 1: Attributing it to anyone where it's like, oh yeah, I
was just.
Speaker 2: Out of the air. It's not my opinion because I
don't have that opinion of Walker Kessler, but it was
somebody who had it was in a position to know.
But I say that because it's like it's at the
time Walker, We're like, oh my god, this guy's out
playing Rudy Gobert as a rookie and all these metrics
like what a great but he's going to be a cornerstone.
And then last year it was like, so he's not starting.
Speaker 1: That's a word.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. Anyway, it offered like some explanation to
what seemed like an unsolvable mystery. So that that's the
only reason I'm saying that grade wise though, So this
feels to me like we just kind of liked the
organizational direction as much as anything. And I know you
loved Hendrix and George I think was like a pretty
you know, well regarded pick at sixteen, who had a
lot of moments last year. I feel like we're still
I don't know, we're still in the range of last
year's great. I don't know if I want to move
it down just a touch, but yeah, I don't. There's
no like, there's no obvious like, oh my god, we
need to go way lower on this team.
Speaker 1: I don't think, oh well, I mean it's relative to
their resources. Do you think everything they did with what
was available to them. I mean, when you look at
the draft specifically, I'm still incredibly high on Taylor Hendrix,
and so I have questions about him on offense more
so than I did last year. But I think that
he's a better like he can he can be a
wing defender, so that I feel even better about his
defense for the most part. But so you take him
at number nine, Who were you upset that they passed on?
Is a case in Wallace? Is it? Would you prefer
to them have Derek Lively? Would they even have taken him? Odds?
There's how my Hawks Cam Whitmore was on the board
for everybody. So I I like, I think it needs
to be moved down because I wonder if having John
Collins kind of complicated their front court rotation, Like if
John Collins wasn't there in retrospect, we could have more
information on Taylor Hendricks specifically. I think the Caanty George
pick is gonna end up panning out really well. I'm
kind of with you though, in the sense that I
guess it can't be moved down a lot. But I
do think it needs to be moved down just because
if they they could have been spicy, like I'll give
it a like a be a B plus. Is that
going to stark just because we supported the John Collins
trade at the time. But it's just kind of like, oh,
they didn't rehabilitate.
Speaker 2: His value, right, that was the play clearly right. It's like, well,
we'll just get it, Like why wouldn't we get John
Collins for what it costs to get him? Which was
just like you said nothing second round or Rudy Gay
who cares? It just didn't work out, Like he didn't
rehabilitate his value. I don't know that he's worth more
than that now, probably not, probably something similar.
Speaker 1: They still But what they also did is like maybe
why we can't move They didn't lose the flexibility this summing.
They were able to renegotiate and extent lowry market in
which I think you could argue there wasn't a better
use of their cap space in a vacuum. It's well,
do you like the idea of having him long term
when you should be bad? So I will go to
a B plus. I could probably be talked into a B.
But like we our grade was never based on the
theory of like it might have been too, I'll say too,
based on oh, they'll be bad enough, where like they
have all this stuff and it's gonna come with a
top five draft pick.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, they're drafting outside the top eight again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's too early to I'm still encouraged
by Hendricks and like the multi position defense shot. It
actually shot it well on low volume from three last year.
I know there were some streakiness in there. George, we'll see,
like I got a real trial by fire last year,
is gonna get another one. So I'm gonna go. You
went to A B plus. I hate to just copy you,
but I'm not moving down quite as much. I'll go
B plus just the A range feels too high because
there's not any like I feel like you would have
needed some like absolute home runs, and I.
Speaker 1: Don't feel too low, like do we demerit them a
full letter grade here? I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm just moving down a little.
Speaker 1: You know. I thought about a B because I'm just
like the off season, like, looking back, it wasn't as
spectacular as we framed it. But it's also when it's
relative to what's available to you, what did you Unless
your argument is will they had lowry, they renegotiated extended
Jordan Clarks and they trade for Collins. Why not get
more Windown talent in there. But I just I think
the fact that they were able to open up so
much place time for Keyante George right like after the
start of the season worked out for them. If they're
the thing that I lament the most on their behalf
is I would have liked to have seen more of
Taylor Hendrix last year, and I thought they were going
to figure out a way to do that while having
John Collins on the roster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that doesn't really affect the fact, like we're
just talking about they drafted the guy, not what they
did with him after the fact, I guess, although that
does factor into like their grade would look better if
Taylor HENDRICKX had made an All Rookie team or something.
Speaker 1: So I and by the way, that maybe maybe I'm
being salty because I predicted him to make first team
All Rookie ahead of the season.
Speaker 2: I still believe. I think he's got I believe.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's immediate. These are regrades based off
what's happened so far. Next team, Golden State Warriors, mister Hughes, Yeah, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I'm glad that I wasn't as high on
them as I thought. I was so I really liked
this offseason. Bob Myers left, that was a big deal.
Mike then leavey j Bob Myers. Huh yeah, Well, I mean, also,
don't you just want Bob Myers like in charge of
I was thinking like who should actually be president? And
I think I would choose Bob Myers just because whenever
you hear him talk, he's like so measured and such
a kind person and so thoughtful and really smart. Anyway,
he's he left and Mike Dunlevy took over. That at
the time kind of felt like, oh boy, I think
Bob's getting out because he knows like rough days are ahead.
Over to some extent, that proved to be the case.
So Draymond Green also got a four year, hundred million
dollar contract, got a trade kicker on that drafted pods
at nineteen. I think that's gonna look a little better
in the rearview, sent cash to the Wizards for number
fifty seven. That turned into Trace Jackson Davis. Who did he?
Did he make an all rookie team or just mine?
I forget, but he was he was playing real minutes
and turned well I don't know if you know this
or if we talked about it, but Mike Dunlevy's brother
is Tjd's agent, and it seems very clear that he
was steered to Golden State a little bit, but hey,
you play, You've got to play the game. Jordan Poole
sent with a twenty seven second rounder and a twenty
thirty first that has just Area's top twenty protection and
becomes too second if not conveyed. That brought back Chris Paul.
I'm sure I recalled, thinking that made a lot of sense.
Corey Joseph Dario Sarach on the minimum, Lester kenyonas to
a two way, and he actually played, but he's not
gonna be back on the team this year. So man,
a lot happened. You were an as I was a
B plus, shocking that you went higher than I did.
Why were you so high? I wonder what I loved.
Speaker 1: The CP three. Clearly I knew Trace Jackson Davis was
going to finish eleventh in all rookie voting. Okay, you it,
he was close, so I loved. But first of all,
I was never high on Jordan Poole and you knew that.
So to get off of him while giving up basically
a fake first, Like, if you don't want that pick
to convey, it doesn't have to, right, That's how I
view it. Uh. I thought it was a home run
because even if CP three didn't work out, and I
think you could make like a different case of did
he work out that he not? I don't know that
he He certainly didn't submarine their potential. I look at this,
Do you feel worse about anything they did?
Speaker 2: No? I'm wondering why I was so low at the time,
Like why didn't I give this an A range grade?
Maybe I was trying to aploy homerism.
Speaker 1: We probably didn't think that like Pods or TJD were
going to play actual roles at the time.
Speaker 2: Definitely how much the number fifty seven pick have factored
into any grade we would have given, Like I guarantee
you I couldn't have picked Trace Jackson Davis out of
a lineup a year ago, like I wouldn't. I can't
believe he was a factor at all. But yeah, the
Pods won Maybe because Hawk wasn't Hawke has one spot
after or was he one spot before? I can't remember. Uh,
either way.
Speaker 1: It was Hawks Hawkes was drafted, so he was drafted
after is that what you said, no I pick before?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, yeah, I remember. Maybe I was disappointed,
but like, well, if he wasn't on the board, he wasn't.
Speaker 1: On the board.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I overrated the Bob Myers exit
as much as anything. I'm just trying to just figure
out how I was I do.
Speaker 1: I will say I wonder if they could have played
their hand more with Draymond Green, who claims that he
took like this, he's a what didn't he come what
he did to what Jalen Brunson did, And it's like,
whoa buddy, let's uh, you need to have a market
like to do that. And also you didn't finish fifth
and MVP voting the prior year and then agree to
take a bunch of I.
Speaker 2: Just yeah that No, this is I mean, it's weird
because like last year felt like a disappointment. I guess.
You know, you don't make the playoffs, that's that's not
great when you have Steph Curry still playing. You know,
like ninety percent of Steph Curry didn't.
Speaker 1: But I will ask because I think the reason to Dingham,
if you're gonna ding them at all, would be why
didn't they like be more aggressive and trying to acquire
the guy, Like.
Speaker 2: Why didn't they pull off the Andrew Wigan, Well here's why.
Speaker 1: Odds still on this team would be like why didn't
Siakam on this team instead of that would be And
I just don't think we we continue to run into
this issue with Golden State is we're telling them, no,
you need to make the most of Steph Curry's prime.
We just have no idea will help you do that?
Speaker 2: They say how, and we say, you know, but you.
Speaker 1: Need to do it now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, I guess I can. I'm gonna move
up to an A minus. I just don't see anything.
Maybe the Green contract just because he really, you know,
he missed a ton of the season because of suspension
and he's aging and blah blah blah, but like when
he's out there, he's still pretty close to the Draymond
Green they need, so I don't And getting off a
Pool was huge. I mean that even looks better because
I don't know if you ever got on board with me,
but I was like, a Pool is gonna average twenty
eight a game and he's gonna shoot forty percent, but
it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 1: You had us look up his scoring title odds.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, he was gonna put in the biggest like
it would be like Lou Williams times too, just the
biggest garbage bucket season ever. Uh, and he didn't do that.
It was even worse than anyone could have imagined. So
getting off that was huge.
Speaker 1: In defense of Jordan Poole, who still does not play defense, Uh,
he was a lot better towards the close of last year.
They put the ball in his hands more with the
second unit kind of it. So there's still hope. But
if you're the Warriors, getting out of that deal was massive,
I'm gonna stick with an A minus. I guess you
could argue I was super high on the star at
Shinning and that ended up not factoring in as much.
I guess you could argue, well, why aren't you moving
it up when TJD and Pods were clearly better than
you expected. I just don't feel like CP three was
probably I mean, he was about what I would have expected,
but it didn't parlay the Warriors into being a good team.
And also, yeah, I think I probably feel worse about
the Draymond Green contract, not in a way of oh,
he can't be movable. He's not good. But like, this
dude is such a wild card, and it's like even
he hits threes last year, it's just like, could you
give us like kind of a happy medium somewhere between
maybe not trying to choke guys out and missing a
whole bunch of time and then can you like maybe
don't shoot like randomly thirty seven percent from three, but like,
can you give us a few seasons of just thirty
four percent across the bus? So, but I just given
the direction of this team where it feels like even
when they're trying to get guys like a Paul George
or Larry market In, they're either not going to give
up enough to get them or they don't have enough
to get them. The Draymond Green contract, especially now that
you've decided, oh Clay is gone, it makes you feel
a little bit more. Aren't easier? And I mean, like,
if you want me to bump them up to an
A because Pods I think is really good and I
think I might be higher. And by the way, his
ability to create than like every single Warriors fan, not
every single.
Speaker 2: But like get his own shots.
Speaker 1: You mean, yeah, like the step like he's got the
step back, like they're done. Let's move on.
Speaker 2: I just see a few too many no chance in
hell like running hook shots out of him still, So
that that's gotta that's gotta turn into something else maybe, And.
Speaker 1: Are you gonna you said you're gonna bump them up
to Ah.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go a minus just because really because Pajemski
and and it's I guess like you got a credit
him for Jackson Davis, like fifty seventh pick is starting
for you at some point, and like it's looking like
a rotation player.
Speaker 1: That's great. I will say We've said that about so
many Golden State rookies over the eric. Remember that Jordan
Bell was just oh my god, I can't believe it's over.
It's like I need to see TJ D do it again.
Speaker 2: That's totally fair. But maybe the Pajemski exceeding expectations factor
offsets that and still gets.
Speaker 1: Good honestly, because nothing here like if you look at
these moves, they improve their long term flexibility by getting
rid of Jordan Poole and everything else doesn't really impact
their long term except for Brandon Pajemski. And it's they
knocked that pick out of the park for number nine.
Who who's the guy that was drafted after pods that
you would be like, oh, I mean Cam Whitmore goes
one after. But that's that's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody, nobody. And by the way, like I don't
I mean, Cam Whitmore is really exciting as a score,
but I don't think if you went league wide, it's
like Cam Whitmore was not the deal breaker in a
LORI Marken in trade Like that's.
Speaker 1: Honestly, they get an a what did they do wrong?
I'm just I'm looking at this right. I mean, it's
the only thing. Would why didn't you get rid of Wiggins?
And it's just what opportunity was out there? And if
you want to frame it as well, knowing they didn't
make the playoffs, would you rather have that first round
pick or like in Jordan Poole, it's like, no, that's
fake first round. I still I'm the Warriors. I still
have that first round pick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, that's isn't it wild to up our
off season grades on a team that won fewer games
than the year before and didn't make the playoffs, But
it still feels right.
Speaker 1: You would have to, Yeah, what is the Maybe we
were were we too high to begin with, and like
we can't walk.
Speaker 2: It back, But maybe that's what it is. Maybe you
know what that's going forward. We're still gonna go. We're
still moving up for them, but going forward we need
to we need to reevaluate. Like we can't just take
what we thought last year and either move it up
or down. We have to, like, first say, did what
we gave the did the grade we gave them last
year actually makes sense in the first place before we start.
Speaker 1: I guess if we over okay, maybe we overvalued the
impact CP three was gonna have. But if we undervalue
what Pods and tj D are going to do, it
it counters.
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not talking you out of the A.
I'm going a minus. We're both moving up. We need
some teams to move to drop here it's coming.
Speaker 1: Here are the Clippers speaking of dropping dropping teams? Oh,
they're my team. So they waved Eric Gordon to shave
nine figures off their tax bill. They resigned Russell Westbrook
to a two year deal using non bird rights. He
had a player option. They ended up trading him. They
resigned to Mason Plumley. They drafted Kobe Brown at number thirty.
They drafted Jordan Miller at number forty eight, signed him
to a two way contract. At the time, the note
here is, I don't know how to We can't grade
the James Harden trade because it happened during the season.
So that's the note here, that's the move we were
waiting on. That's the reason why. Oh no, we gave
them a grade. So I gave him a C. You
gave them a C plus do you I don't know,
I was. I guess the question about their offseason grade
comes down because they didn't have the resources to just
do a lot better than this. It's, oh, well, why
didn't they use their taxpayer Anally, it's like, look who
that turns into is Reggie Jackson, who you have to
trade three first round picks to get off? So do
you feel better if you're the Clippers? Do you think
it would that it made sense to I mean, here's
this is what's seeping into my logic, and this is
why I think it needs to be a part of
the logic. Paul George and Kawhi Leonard were extension eligible
at the time. Listening back Grant we complimented the Clippers
for not giving them extensions. It was hey, prove it.
But if you knew there was a chance that you
were not gonna pay Paul George because he wanted four
years rather than three, why did you ever make the
James Harden trade? That?
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad you got there because that's where I'm
hung up. And now we're talking about this offseason. But
like the idea that we're gonna save money by not
giving Paul George this fourth year but then give seventy
million dollars guaranteed to James Harden is just like I
don't know. I know where I'm cutting costs and it's
not starting with Paul George just but I don't know,
Like I think it's I think we were right to
say you can't extend and then they did extend Kawhi,
but like, you can't do this, and but Kawhi played
sixty eight games last year, So I mean, like holding
off made sense. I think we were right to sort
of praise them for that.
Speaker 1: Can I provide some push back there? Did it make sense?
Because I think the thing that probably needs a factor
into the grade is what concession did they avoid in
the James Harden trade by waiting.
Speaker 2: Oh I see, so you're well, I don't. I mean,
I don't know, but it made more sense.
Speaker 1: To it ended up like working out and okay, they
they lose the first few games than they look like
a contender. But it's like you could have had a
training camp with James, like did my My whole thing is,
do you think Philly walked off their asking price enough
by the Clippers waiting to have not made the move beforehand.
The answer to me is no, because based off all
the reporting, it doesn't seem like the Clippers avoid it.
They ended up having to take PJ tough with your
back and had to send out Nick Patoom. Those were
two things we know that they didn't want to do.
They got to keep Terrence Man. I think it's the
big one where it's okay, we got to keep Terrence Man.
So maybe that's a case for this being a lateral whatever.
But like they still continue for a lot of the
time like to like not I don't want to say
not value turnspan, but he's not like he was never
like centrally utilized. I guess the season goes on, sure,
So I I'm struggling with this. I don't know what
to do.
Speaker 2: With Are you saying or is your argument that they
should have if they were gonna do the James Harden trade,
that they should have done it in the off season?
Speaker 1: Yes? And then why are you bringing back Russell Westbrook?
Is the other one?
Speaker 2: If isn't the better argument just don't do that? Like
are they better off if they just don't do that?
If that's like, we.
Speaker 1: Can't can't factor into the grade because they didn't do that.
But I'm not gonna give them a positive grade for
not doing it just to do it. But You're also
you're also considering, like should they You're also grading them
on something they didn't do, which is trade for James
Harden before the season start.
Speaker 2: I don't, I can. I can see why this is
still thorny. Here's where I land based on what they
actually did. I have them at a C plug us.
I don't feel like, in hindsight, the moves they made
warrant an above average grade. So I'm gonna just go
down to a sea which I feel like acknowledges their
lack of flexibility and and just better reflects. You know,
they didn't make any great moves. They didn't make anything
that any moves that killed them, and I don't know
what to do with the James Harden things, So I'm
just moving down slightly to reflect I just I don't
see a reason to say this was an above average offseason.
Speaker 1: I feel like I need to just go to a
C minus because I thought that, like they traded for
him November first, it wasn't like they waited until January.
So it's like, if you were just gonna go and
turn around and do that, why not do it earlier
so that you can get him to go through a
training camp. I recognize that I can't move them down
because we're getting into too many theoreticals there and there
weren't they didn't by waiting. I will say, I don't
think they missed out on other opportunities, but I think
they obviously had enough intel that well that really should
have factored into the way that you were viewing the
Russell Westbrooks stuff specifically, And I don't know, like and
if you were gonna make the James Harden trade, which
you were prepared to make, I do think you should
have been more married to I know we're getting into
now this offseason, but you don't trade or get involved
in the James Harden trade sweepstakes to be like, well,
this will help offset it when we decide to not
pay Paul George like, yeah, you have to map out
all these scenarios. And so I think they did a
poor job of planning long term here, or they didn't
get enough out of their sort of long term planning
or whatever stance they drew during the off season. So
I'm gonna bump them down to a C minus. But
I easily think if I was willing to just contradict
myself even more than I do normally, that I could
be talking like a d or an f bro. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I guess, like what really is sort of crystallizing as
we're talking about this is they miscalculated in thinking that
if we wait a little bit, we're gonna be able
to get James Harden for less, because he's gonna make
it so impossible to exist in Philadelphia that eventually the
Sixers will just have to take less. It doesn't really
seem like that happen. It's just he costs what he costs.
Philly got a decent and Philly's eyes got a great
return for a guy that wasn't gonna help him and
didn't want to be there, But the Clippers didn't get
a better deal necessarily by waiting. So to your point,
just do it. But like it is a reasonable gambit
to say, like it's gonna be so untenable in Philly
if we wait into the season that we will be
able to get him for lesson that they were just
wrong about it.
Speaker 1: I'll leave it at a sea then, But because I
think the only way that you could look at it
positively for my end is if the difference was Philly
wanted Terrence Man until the season started, like insisting on
Terrence Man and Terrence Man, then you know what, that's
technically a bonus. So I'll stick with a se because
I do still think that's not a move you make
without having this big picture logic in place. And if
you you already knew it was on shaky footing because
you didn't extend to Paul George, It's like that was
already kind of unfolding, and yet you went and did
this anyway, you know what I mean? So Ill, that's
as high as I'm going. You can't know I wasn't
trying to sway you one way or the other. Was
trying to make this make sense for me.
Speaker 2: All right. The Lakers are next, They're one of my teams.
Signed Anthony Davis to a three year on hundred and
seventy seven million extension. He's got a player option on
the last year that deal in twenty seven to twenty eight,
gave Vincent three years thirty three, got Austin Reeves back
four years fifty three point eight million, which there was
talk of it being like like two x that or
like some ridiculously higher number. Ru Hachimura back three years
fifty one, D'Angel Russell back two years thirty six. Essentially
got a player option and like basically at the time,
seemed like he was re signed to be traded because
he waived his implied no trade clause. Torrian Prince one year,
four and a half million, Jackson Hayes two years minimum,
Cam Reddish two year minimum.
Speaker 1: Both these players are back as of right now, so
those player options are important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right. Jalen Hutzefino was the pick at seventeen. We
just talked about Pods at nineteen and Hawkes at eighteen,
so that will be a factor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Moore at twenty, right, was he twenty.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, oh yeah, right, yeah, just throw a dart
at the next three pit it would have been better.
I'm not I refuse to read the mojave King Maxwell.
Speaker 1: You're again you're not supposed to. You've been going away
into more detail than I think.
Speaker 2: I just want to be thorough before because this is
we gave this team a high grade and and I mean,
I don't know what to do with it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I so listening back, I was wondering just
what exactly we were smoking. A lot of it was
it was Reeves. It was Reeves, and gave Vincent pipe.
So I don't they can't predict, like gave Vincent not
really playing like you know, that's not so I don't
view that. I was on them, and I still think
that Dio could end up being fine. Yah, they missed
on the draft pick. And then the fact that they
kind of just like didn't even like I guess the signings,
the minimum signings, don't they they're not even factor guys,
and so like those we were probably pretty like, oh
they took a gamble on Jackson Hayes. Okay, that's that's fine.
I thought Torrian Prince was going to be good for them.
I don't know if they used him properly. Lakers fans
ended up hating him as well. He's like kind of
three in D but goes through these stretches where he
doesn't provide either right, And I just I you would
have to look back and say, well, what else were
they supposed to do? And I think you could very
easily say, well, they should have fucking drafted better.
Speaker 2: Sure that's that, and then it's a criticism. I don't
know if it's a criticism, but it's an issue that persists,
which is, couldn't you have taken a swing for a
third star? You've got these two top end guys, Like
I don't know how much that factored in. I don't
remember what I thought. For me. I'm this has to
be a worst grade because Reeves now feels like he's
maybe properly valued at four years and fifty three, and
I thought that was a heist at the time. And
then the hood pick is a miss?
Speaker 1: What did Austin Reeves do to you? I still think
that deal is like in the good, but it's not like, oh,
he's making half of what I thought he should make.
You know, it's it's closer to proper value than in
the underpay I thought it was. I do think also
a miss because that was also part of our calculation
is we just assumed that they were going to trade
d even if it wasn't for a third star. It's like, Okay,
you have this guy, you signed him, so you could
only trade him, and now you so far they've passed
on trading him twice like two contract cycles, because it's oh,
you kept him through that year and then he picks
up his player option and as a right we're recording this,
he's still on the roster. So I'm gonna drop them
down because they still The Ruey Hochimore deal's fine. I
didn't love it at the time. I still technically don't
love it now, but I recognize he's a part of
some of their best lineups. I like, to me, the
Vintent deal is fine, the Antiy Davis extension is good.
The Reeves deal still in the green. I'll go with
a C minus. But like, they're very close to being
in between the draft and the d LO Miss Reid, Uh,
they're very close to being in the d territory.
Speaker 2: So you're going from an A minus to a C
minus that that's got to be our biggest drop so far.
Speaker 1: It's probably like one of our biggest drops of all time.
And it's fitting. It makes sense when you look at
the Lakers' front office when it comes to like normally
they're pretty good at like finding players to develop on
their own. Like the jonhu Fino stuff was a mega miss.
Speaker 2: That was a big miss. I mean, like the biggest
business they did was getting I mean, but then like
how much credit do you give them for Hey, Anthony Davis,
do you want the most we can possibly pay you?
And he says yes.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I said it was fine. That's that's
a sea or a C plus move.
Speaker 2: Like it's not right, like should it even be a factor,
like just because like of course they offered it, of
course he took it. Like next there, I don't know.
Speaker 1: What I will say is and we did actually talk
about this too, is the fact that they he's accepted
it then, and so you got him for three rather
than having to go out for four this summer where
it's oh, then he's a year older, yeah, and we
have to give a player option when he's a year
older than that. I actually think that that ends up
being better for the Lakers in terms of their flexibility.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just don't. I can't get all the
way down to a below average just because I'm going
to go down to just a flat sea because there
were some good moves and then like the hooche Fino
pick was really bad and like nobody else that they
really got on a minimum ended up. Matt. Yeah, it's
it's a big drop, but it's still I'm not I'm
not gonna say it was like an overall below average performance.
Speaker 1: I'm honestly in retros. I just can't believe how unbare
horribly high. Well, I understand it, though, I really, I'm
sure that I just because I really thought, wasn't it
like why don't the Spurs poison pill it?
Speaker 2: Like they gotta go get Reeves and just maybe make
the Lakers will have no choice to but to match.
Speaker 1: Still, honestly, if that's that's the argument of why are
you giving the mumblow average rate? I still think I
apparently way higher on that deal than you are. I
guess if you're looking at this summer's market, But he
wasn't in this summer's market. He was in last summer's market. YEA,
So the Phoenix Suns. They're my team. They fire Money
Williams brought in from Rogel. They traded CP three Landry
Shammitt for first round swaps and four second round picks
for Bradley Beal, Jordan Goodwin and Isaiah Todd. They then
traded I'm not going through the horror cooxing of of
all the first round. They then horror coxed all these
different swaps on swaps. And you could swap the swaps
for the swaps that have not been swapped yet, but
future swaps compared to pass swaps might have different value
relative to the swaps in the quantum realm. So they
did all that. They signed WE and I was to
like my we, not my credit. But to be fair
to you, I was sipping the kool aid on their
minimum deals more than you were. Eric Gordon, Josha Kogi,
Kita bhg Up You Tawanton, Abby, Drew You Banks and
Damian Lee all got two year minimum deals with player
options on year two. They signed a bull Bull. They
signed him as they METU to one year minimums. They
drafted to Moni Kamara at number fifty seven, then signed
him at the time because the timeline guys had told
me to go look at him more. I was in
love with him. But we graded their offseason grant before
they made the trade with Tamani Kamara and DeAndre Ayton.
They end up sending they sent out in that deal
uh DeAndre and Toomani Kamara for Grayson Allen Keon Johnson,
sir little and use of Nurkic. That is like, well,
before we get into the grades, what would you would
you rather have eight and in Tamani Kamara or just
knowing what how well use of Nurkic played defensively last year,
knowing how much the vibes were off with eight and
it felt like and then just what I said, what
Grayson Allen? Like, what Grayson Allen did? Do you prefer like?
But we didn't grade. That deal was not part of
our grade. So it's just what like, now that we're
sort of a year removed from it, how do you
puzzle that out?
Speaker 2: I think I'd I would rather have the Sun's side
of it, which means I'd rather have basically just Alan
and Nurkic as opposed to Ayton and Kamara, just because
Aden's deals bigger. I just I don't it's hard for
me to imagine that Ayton could have continued to like
be on the Suns just based on years of what
we're kind of sick of this guy type of stuff.
But I really like Kamara. I think I think Allen
has such a premium skill as a shooter, and Nurkic
was just so much better than I thought that I
think I'd rather have those two guys as the headliners.
Speaker 1: You come with you, but for what this team actually needs,
and I know they need Grayson Allen's three point volume,
but that's also part of the problem for me, where
it's like, well you have Bradley, Devin and Devin Rant,
you shouldn't. And that's what I'm struggling with this grade too,
is in a vacuum. If you have a problem with
the Bradley Beal tr you actually have a problem with
the Kevin Durant trade because the assets that were available
to the Suns, they were never going to get a
better player in the vacuum than Bradley Beal at the time.
But and we said it didn't matter that they didn't
need a game manager, it turns out they might have.
And then they signed two of them over this offseason.
Speaker 2: They signed the two game managers. They signed me.
Speaker 1: Game managers, not game the game managers, so that doesn't
pan out. I think Bradley Beal was fine for me.
I just don't like, you know, I'm not any higher
or lower. I'm probably lower on his addition, but I
do think he made he really tried to make an
attempt to adapt and if they stringed together even more
performances where there's maybe not as choppy availability to start
the season from him. But we also we just we
were way too high on their minimums because that factory
into my grade, so that has to come back, and
we dismissed this idea that you know, I don't think
getting rid of campaign is still not something like you
as sort of unforgivable. But at the same time, it's, oh,
they clearly they punted on having a floor general, and
it turns out they actually needed one. However, if we're
saying that they got the better end of the trade
like the port like that trade with Portland and Milwaukee, uh,
I don't. I don't know what we gave them. A's right.
I don't think they can get an A now based
off how last season unfolded.
Speaker 2: I feel like I need to really recalibrate here because
I like, in my heart of hearts, I just hate
I hate the Bradley Beal deal. I hate how much
it costs to get him. I still think he's he's
a duplicative player. I hate their the current position they're in,
which this past offseason went a long way toward, you know,
confining them to They have since fired Frank Vogel and
hired someone else to go the team right, and that
the trade. It's again, I did say I prefer the
Sun's side of it, but it's like it's close. It's
a it's an argument for sure, just because Kamara is like,
oh that guy should be your fifth closer or whatever
with with this version of the Suns, I'm gonna and
the minimums. This is a lesson I think I'm gonna take.
Is I am I gonna stop overvaluing like, oh my god,
they got a seven million dollar player for two like
that stuff just doesn't matter that much. I was wrong
in thinking they deserve such a high grade for getting Gordon,
A Kogi, KBD, all these guys for nothing, because they
just didn't end up mattering that much. Maybe Gordon a
little bit so I'm gonna go I had a flat A.
I'm shocked to see I was higher than you.
Speaker 1: I was shocked to see that too, because I just,
I don't mean you must have swayed me on the
Beal thing, because it is a good argument that like
you're already kind of pot committed, you got Kevin Durant,
you've given up.
Speaker 2: All this stuff, like why not more? Well, I think you, Yeah,
I'm going I'm gonna go down to I just I'm
gonna go down to a C. Have I given a
D yet? I'm going down to a D plus because
I think last offseason went a long way toward putting
the Suns in a position that, in fact, no team
wants to be in, contrary to what Mattieshbia says. So
uh yeah, I'm going way, way, way, way way down
to a D plus.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna drop them down to a D. Just the
difference in the t it's the Frank Vogel stuff was
a misread. And the other thing too is you can
still argue that Bradley Beal's the Bradley Beal trade is
not the one that put the Suns in this shortened window.
But to now just lose control over all of your
first round picks until technically twenty and thirty one they
could then they'll probably still move that one. It was
a like, you're looking at this team and it's you
could also argue, have they kept CP three or done
something like would this team have been better last year
with CP three instead of Bradley Beal.
Speaker 2: Or just somebody else that they could have traded CP
three and like some of those swaps or whatever for.
Speaker 1: That over Bradley, but he ended up getting injured. So
I just the thing was Bradney Beal had the no
trade clause, which is why he was available to them,
But now you've saddled yourself with that same no trade clause.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that. Just The last thing I'll say
is like if if you view the Suns as being
in jail basically and having no outs, like this passed
offseason and went a long way toward putting them there.
So yeah, man, what a drop for both those.
Speaker 1: So plus you said, right, I don't know why I'm bust.
We need to like we're going to regrade the regrades
in a couple in a couple of years. Your favorite
to this is everyone in the comments actually an alert.
It's Grant talking about that. Oh wait, in your king's mind. No,
the Kings are yours.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's how we set it up, I'm sure are
Harrison Barnes came back on a three year, fifty four
million dollars deal.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Sasha Vazenkov three years, twenty million. I had a team
option on that. Trey Lyles back two year sixteen. The
draft stuff seems mostly inconsequential here, unless you want to
vamp on it. Gave up number twenty four and Rashaun
Holmes to Dallas for cash. Traded the MAVs twenty eight
and a twenty thirty for Chris Duarte boyd wow. Okay,
the big one here, renegotiated and extended demonis of Bonus
four years, one hundred and eighty six million, goes through
his age thirty two season, no options, so basically becomes
a five year, two hundred and fourteen point eight million
dollar contract. Alex landback uh oh ke On Ellis on
a two way. There's there's some there's some positive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a yeah. That that that's a hashtag
home run. We were deep, you went we ball. We
both gave deep. I thought you gave an f for
some reason. So the stuff to relitigate is the Barnes
deal I ended up being too high on, but you
ended up being able to use him to get DeMar
DeRos in. It's not like you had to give up
a ton of compensation, like yeah, okay, the twenty thirty
one spot. But even if it was a different salary
filler than Barnes. But here's my thing is, we gave
d pluses and I think, by and large, with the
exception of Keon Ellis and Trey Lyles, was fine. Like
most of this stuff played out worse yep. And the
I think the ke On Allis that's a positive for sure. Uh.
The Demonta Sabonis renegotiating extension, it's I still didn't understand
the reason to do it, and I don't now. And
the only argument you could make, which is not necessarily
one of the favorites, well, okay, it means that he's
under contract for four more years as of right now,
rather than five, and maybe you don't want to pay
him that far out. You didn't save a ton of
money per year his salary because of how he signs
his extension. It's like twenty eight percent of the cap
versus it would have been thirty. So like, you don't
get to sell me on that. What they saved two
percent of the salary cap. So I still would not
have done it. I would have forced him to go
in the market. And if they had to max him
because there was another offer out there, then so be it.
I get they were worried about losing him, so I said,
I understood the logic. I just didn't agree with it.
I'm still there now. I think he's a hell of
a player. But if you were gonna, you could have
had cap space and you could have just made done
some move. And I even if you thought nothing else
was available to them, I am patently against putting yourself
in a position to where you gave up a first
round pick to facilitate the flexibility that turned out to
be I'm not saying just a bonus, but this offseason
so and I know it turned into Omax who didn't
do anything in Dallas, Like, I totally get it, but
I don't view this. I probably view it the same
because of Keon Allis and what you're you were able
to do with Harrison Barnes. So I also just think
became an unfair scapegoat in Sacramento. And it's just like
what they were asking him to do defensively is like
Harrison Barnes shouldn't be doing those things defensively in the
year twenty twenty four. So and just like the Chris
Duarte trade was a fucking miss, like you give up
those two Dallas seconds for I just and again he
was part of the demo Demartin Rose inside in trade too.
Speaker 2: I think Vzhenkov was a miss, a minor miss, but
it's still a miss, like not on the team anymore.
Speaker 1: Maybe lucky they didn't have to like go through the drop.
I guess they were going through there. He ended up
requesting a trade. That's a miss. Yeah, you could use
that money, try to use that money on someone else.
Speaker 2: So it just the Elis move is you know that
guy's gonna really matter for this team this season, and
we're talking about last year and he did matter last season.
Just could guard energetic, Like they just provides things that
they don't get from other players at the position, especially
now Davion Mitchell's gone. But the Sabonis thing, it's the
same argument I made fifteen times. It's just like maybe,
and maybe I'm wrong about the type of team the
Kings wanna be, but I assumed that last year there
was let's talk, let's step forward, let's like, let's level up,
let's be a better team than we've been. And Sabonis
is just not the player that can help them do that,
just because of all of his limitations defensively as a spacer,
all that stuff said at a million times, so to
just basically cement him as a cornerstone piece, I thought,
just put a top on how good you can be.
And oh guess what, they were pretty much the same
last year as they were the year before. And I
don't see a reason to believe that they're going to
take that step forward next year. That's not all on Sabonis.
A lot of it is on the misses we just
talked about. But I do think you're just it feels
weirdly unambitious, like or detrimentally unambitious to say we're gonna
make this guy a two hundred fifty million dollars player.
It's going to foreclose on all this other opportunity potentially
to get different types of guys around Fox, around Monk,
around Rosen. Now, so I D plus is a really
bad grade. So I'm just gonna stay at a D
plus because I this kind of went how I thought
it would go a year ago.
Speaker 1: I'm probably higher on you about them taking a step
forward next season, which I think the demart Rosen fit
is more of a feature for what they needed than
a potential bug as a lot of people view it.
But I'm sticking with the D plus too. I mean,
the the key it's basically key on ellis saving them right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't outweigh all the other stuff. It's it's nice,
but it's like it's just a little tiny It's a
grain of sand on the scale and you got like
a metric ton of shit on the other side. It
doesn't it doesn't really help.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again I just maybe I would have felt differently.
It's the only reason that even like this, the bonus
renegotiating extent, as I mentioned, is that like, oh, it
shaves one fewer year of the commitment offen. It's you're saying,
the reason it's good is because you don't have to
have him for as long. That's That's my point though,
is like if you're otherwise, you could just say, well,
they didn't they weren't going to be able to use
that space on like someone else. Then I like I
get it, but like I also disagree, Like there's just
other players in them, Like you didn't have to like
go after Vazankov, which he was the room exception for them, right,
So it's just like you could have used that to
funnel it elsewhere. Uh, And I just if you're I'm
against that frame it this way, don't I think we're
attaching it too much. The Sabona stuff is if you
had to trade a first round pick that could maybe
have been objectively used to acquire a player rather than flexibility,
your off season needs to be better than this. And
it also prevented you from then going out on the
trade market and doing something mid season. And that's also
like you could ding the Kings. You called it detrimentally unambitious.
I think the most the kindest way to put it
be weirdly unambitious because they didn't even make a move
in the middle of the season where it's like, why
weren't you the Royce O'Neill team for what he calls
And so now they were aggressive with the Martin Rosen
So this offseason will be fascinating, but in retrospect, like
they had, we thought they had a pretty bad offseason,
and it turns out that we were right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we nailed it on to the Dallas Mavericks.
Speaker 1: They did a whole bunch, resign Kyrie Irving for three years,
one hundred and twenty million, the player option on that
final year when he'll be entering his age thirty three season,
traded the pick that became Case and Wallace along with
Damas Bertons to Oka See for Derek Lively. It created
also a seventy million dollars traded player exception, so they
got Lively and a massive trade exception that they helped
us to take on Rashaan Holmes. To get number twenty
four O Lvia Maxen's prosper they resigned Dwight Powell to
a three year, twelve million dollar deal with a player option.
For some reason, they traded Reggie Block in the twenty
thirty first round swap to San Antonio and a twenty
twenty five conditional second and a two thousand and thirty
second rounder to Boston for Grant Williams, who signed a
four year, fifty three point three million dollar deal, with
no options. They signed Seth Curry two years eight million dollars.
The final year is non guaranteed. Signed don Te Exhum
two years six point two million, second year was non guaranteed.
He's still on the team, and they signed Derek Jones Junior,
who ended up turning out pretty well for them. This
is I was actually shocked that we were as high
as we were on this season in real times, in
real time, but they get they get an A. I
don't think the Grant Williams business for me in retrospect
is like, oh, okay, that went super poorly, but if
you even framed it as well, we had to give
up this first round swap plus the first round pick
to get PJ. Washington, like you were making that trade.
I actually I might stick with an A minus because
I just don't understand why Dwight Powell has a player option.
But like they hit on Derek Jones Junior, they hit
on Dante Exum. They somehow like they got the best
player in the OKC deal well like getting rid of
the worst player. And though it's just.
Speaker 2: It so for me, I was also surprised because maybe
maybe by this point because I catastrophized about the Kyrie
Irving trade just because like, oh my god, if if
he's the same guy, then they're gonna lose Luca because
he's gonna hate this and ask out when the MAVs
aren't good and Kyrie's like not on the you know,
not around. Uh So I had a B plus and
it's just an a for me. Like they they drafted
I mean they drafted well or like I guess traded
for the draft pick really well. Because this is interesting
like sort of juxtaposition between like I know, there's an
argument either way from okc's perspective, whether they came out
ahead for Dallas. It's like, oh no, no, Lively was the
guy they needed. He's a cornerstone. Now this was a
great trade. So drafted well. Irving I think is just
that's a great value for a player that has a
ceiling as high as he does three years one twenty.
Like every trade, even the worst trade they or the
worst move they made was Grant Williams, But that turns
into PJ. Washington finding Dante Exum, like come on, and
Derek Jones Junior was one of the best signings of
this of the office. Like I do I have any
a pluses. They made the finals. I'm gonna give him
an A plus. I don't care about the Dwight Powell
thing because he's just gonna be Udonism for them.
Speaker 1: How do you square away just the fact that they
were it took what happened to the deadline for them
to become that team though, well Williams is a part
of it. By not being a part of it, it's
like warping my brain with the way to do that.
Speaker 2: I guess it's a question of do you credit them
if it's just about the off season, then the Grant
Williams acquisition was not. It's probably not something that makes
them a plus worthy good point.
Speaker 1: Well, because it'd be different if he was still on
the team.
Speaker 2: Well, but offseason, I guess the argument would be Grant
Williams like still was valuable enough at the number they
signed him to to get you PJ. Washington essentially like maybe,
And that's a I mean, that's that's a fair argument.
It's just it's divorced enough from the off season itself
that you're kind of making me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if I go to just an
A plus because of how he panned out, because that
that's a perfect offseason. It's sort of if you're factoring
in the PJ. Washington deal. I just don't know that
we can. We harped on that while we were talking
about it. We were worried about that swap that they
gave up. It's like it is Lucas still going to
be there, that whole thing, and so you feel better
about the swap in general. But Grant Williams still didn't
like they. I'm sorry he it wasn't Derek Jones Junior
who was billed as the guy who's going to be
the win that it was Grant Williams was gonna change
their defensive culture.
Speaker 2: It was still, but it was Derek Jones Junior in
the end, and they still you know what, there's enough
home I'm sticking with an A plus. There's enough home
runs here. Draft wise, signing wise, extension wise, or contract.
Speaker 1: I just think I think that's smart of you, because
Mavericks fans were really mad at you in the comments
the other day because you talked about Luca being out
of shape, and I took it because I know how
you meant it as him coming into camp in shape,
which he did last year, but has been a problem
in the past, but his people who've defended Zion Williamson
and Niccola Joch Its like, we understand that Luca is
not a couch potato. He's he has good damage, just
sometimes he chooses not to use it because he's arguing
with the refs. And he teased us this year by
not arguing with the refs were a good portion of
the time and then getting right back to it.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you taking up for me. I still think
Luka Doncic needs to be in better shape. I just
like I, you're not gonna You're not gonna.
Speaker 1: Have not said that, so we don't have to deal
with the notes in the comments that just.
Speaker 2: Send him my way and I'll happily ignore it all. Like,
what is that doesn't feel like a crazy take that
the guy?
Speaker 1: Yeah it shape, that feels like a crazy take. Where
is it that Luca's stamina has hurt to Mavericks? I'm
genuinely asking.
Speaker 2: I think, uh, well, one, they played at such a
slow pace because he likes to play that way.
Speaker 1: They played faster this year, but go.
Speaker 2: On, they did? They did? I you can't look at Okay,
how about this? This is a this is. I'll admit
this is a lazy argument, which is apropos because we're
talking about someone I don't think is in the best
shape he could be in. You can't look at Luka
Doncic and say that guy's in the best shape he
could possibly be in.
Speaker 1: Could you say that about Nikoliokic? Though? Because I don't
see you lampooting Nikoliokic, I guess well, would you also say, though,
that Jokic has clearly gotten in much better shape than
he was in several years ago? Like, yeah, but I
would argue that I feel like Luca has too, just
in the level I think you could criticize him for
his effort level on defense? Does that have to do
with his stamina? But his effort level on defense a
lot of time this year was probably higher than we're
used to seeing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's just because he's so
unlimited and so great at everything that I want to see,
like what that looks like in a maximized, like physical
shape package.
Speaker 1: Okay, we watched Lebron for twenty something years, Like doesn't that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me show me that. That's what I'd like
to see.
Speaker 1: He's rockets, let's move but we've already lost, but we've
probably been downloaded by a bunch of Maps fans. By now,
that's all the Rockets, are you right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, So replaced steven head coach Stephen Silas with Ammyodoka.
I'm and Thompson at number five, Cam Whitmore at twenty five.
Speaker 1: Jesus that is number twenty.
Speaker 2: I don't know why twenty Okay, yeah, I apologize the
traded Brooklyn's own twenty twenty eight second to the Nets
for Patty Mills and Milwaukee's twenty twenty second Fred van
Vliet three years one twenty eight point five team option
on the last year of that got Jeff Green, which
we mentioned in the Nuggets section two year, sixteen million
non guarantee on the second another non guarantee. Uh, several
non guaranteed years for Jock Landale. Four for thirty two. Uh.
Speaker 1: Do we count down Brooks for four years and eighty
six million? It could go up to ninety million.
Speaker 2: I think that's a good call. That's not on here.
And then there's like a oh, yeah, Dylan Brooks is
the headliner of this complicated trade. Four for eighty six Uh.
Speaker 1: By the way, that was.
Speaker 2: Well, so that guy we somebody the Warriors, and somebody
else beat that this year as a sixth teamer, right.
Speaker 1: I think it was. So when are we gonna get
the first seven teams? Right? I better not have to
grade that one, I tell you that much.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of slides. Okay, So you had a
B plus here, I had an A.
Speaker 1: It's an A. I mean, honestly, it's an A plus.
This is the A plus team. Where was the move
that didn't work? Because you still have those non guaranteed
deals to use if you want to make a trade
you like Fredman. I think people harped too much on
Fred van Fleet is really what it came down to
for me, because like it's a two year max, but
you had all this money to spend. And he's the
perfect guy when it comes to not infringing upon the
development of players who are more important than the long term.
And guess what happened. He did not infringe upon the
development of Cam Whitmore, A'man Thompson. He wasn't the reason
Jalen Green sucked it up until February or March. Albert
jang Gun like and him and Albert chang Gun's partnership
really worked out, so like this is the A plus,
Like this was a fantastic I mean even right down,
emy Udoka came in and I look, I know they
have talent, But if I would have told you Jay
Shawn Tate would play X amount of minutes, Tory Easton
would miss most of the season, and this is gonna
be the fifth or seventh best defense in the league,
you look at the personnel and say that, like look
at Destriges Jabari Smith Junior last year. This is the
this is the A plus. I guess you could say,
but like what is what did they do that would
be view as negative last summer?
Speaker 2: No, I'm coming with you as well.
Speaker 1: This did not include the Kevin Porter situation, domestic violence
allegations and the road not taken this brook Lopez could
have been on this team and brook Lopez decided not
to be and that changes their offseason.
Speaker 2: So like, I don't know, probably.
Speaker 1: By the way we did dingdam for that by the
just clearly misreading the brook Lopez situation and being used
as a stalking horn. But how did it end up
hurting them?
Speaker 2: It didn't, it was it turned out great, Like but
I guess the argument would be like, had they gotten
what they wanted, they would have had Brook Lopez and
it's not somebody else, but who knows, maybe that would
have worked.
Speaker 1: Alpern shang Gun would not be who Alpern shang Gun
is right now.
Speaker 2: That's the argument, that's right, It's still an A plus,
Like they just I don't know the Fred van Vliet thing.
I get it if you're it's a little sticker shockey,
but spoiler next.
Speaker 1: Week's contract now because he has the team option.
Speaker 2: On your right. Next next week, I got something coming
out where he will factor. I don't want to totally
spoil it, but very very heavily in the most underrated
players of the last five years.
Speaker 1: Like that guy, players who bet on themselves. That guy
is who else whose Yeah, that's easy A plus, just dominate.
They added nineteen wins to their total like that, just
the fact that it's we're looking and by the way,
it's too current, but just like they you could view
it this way that one of the five seven best
defense that we just added Red fucking Shepherd, Like what is.
Speaker 2: Like I'm gonna have to be real careful about getting
crazy on how good we think the Rockets are going
to be.
Speaker 1: The Grizzlies who will be good. But we did not
look upon their off season very favorably. We didn't. We
didn't kill it though when I listened back. But they
traded Tyas Jones number twenty five, Marcus Asser and Golden
States twenty twenty first round pick that became that was
the bub Carrington pick I believe right for Marcus sounds right, yeah,
because that was traded to Portland, which then became Bubba,
which was traded to Washington became Bob Carrington. So they
traded that for Marcus. Smart signed has been Baying to
a five year, one ninety seven point two million dollar
extension eight point seven million unlikely incentives. There's no options
on that. They had the five team. They were part
of the five team trade with Dylan Brooks. They basically
didn't get anything out of that. They signed and traded
Dylan Brooks and they were able to get Josh Christopher
who they waived, and they created a tpe. They signed
Eric Rose to a two year, fully guaranteed veterans minimum deal.
They traded to twenty eight twenty twenty nine second round
picks to Phoenix for the least favorable twenty four first
round swap and least favorable twenty thirty first round swap.
And the thing that was not graded as part of
it was they drafted Gigi Jackson at number forty five,
but he was unsigned at the time we did the grades.
He then was signed and the rest was history for him.
I still think you can be optimistic about the I
gave them. I believe I was lower than you on
their offseason. I gave them a C minus. You gave
them a C plus. YEP. I believe that you can
feel good about their future and still question a lot
of the process here. But I do believe that I
don't know what to do about their grade because Marcus
mart was not good and he was injured, so like,
like does that bring their grade down? But then it's
clearly Desmond bang takes another leap forward. So we already
considered him a no brainer at this number, he's even
more of a no brainer now. But gg Jackson, like
what he turned into, like is he just the solution
is like the combo three four that they need. I
don't know what to do with third grade? Are you
going up or down?
Speaker 2: It's just so hard to judge it because it was
a lost season, and you might feel differently about Marcus
Smart and several other guys if you know a million
different players had been on the floor. I kind of
think I kind of with you on just like the
process of it feels, and just generally the Grizzlies transactional
process over the last several years, it just feels like
they've left so much money on the table. I don't
know how much how fair that is. I'm going to
just drop it to a C.
Speaker 1: It's and I think the best way to frame it,
and I'm sorry to deject, is they gave up too
much for Marcus Smart, but you hit on Gigi Jackson,
And I would say Desmond Baines deal to me looks
like an above average deal from a team perspective.
Speaker 2: And it might look a little better today than it
did at the time, just because the CAP's gone crazy,
and it's not it's not a percentage max, right, it's
just a flat number because this is a sub max.
I think I forget all this if I'm wrong, but
it's not. It's gonna look better as the years go on,
I think, and like I even though he was among
the guys that you know missed a bunch of time.
I didn't see anything last year that suggested that was,
oh my, oh, it's a risky deal. He's not going
to make good on that. I don't. I don't think
that he definitely.
Speaker 1: He leveled up once again. Is like a shot creator
and playmaker. So I think that's I'm sticking with the
C though, because they're probably Look, their process continues to
be questionable when you look at what they had to
give up to get off of Zira Williams, so that if
they could stay far enough beneath the tax to go
resigned Luke Canard, whose team options they declined, they could
save three million dollars off his money. Yeah, it's a
say for me, I could see. I think you could
probably make a case for like a C plus, but
you can't tell me as of right now because we
can't grade this on. Like imagine, if the Marcus mart
trade is better than we expect it, like we just
saw it in action, you could say this is why
we play the games. He didn't play it enough of
the games. He was sloppy on the offensive end, which
might have to do with John Moran's absence. That's still
put the whole reason to have Marcus Martin that was
to help you navigate the John Bran.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember it was like he needs to replace
Dylan Brooks and John Morant for Like, the.
Speaker 1: Dylan Brooks stuff is still just okay. I'm fine with
them of letting him walk. He really rained in his
shots and that was the other That's why Houston get today.
Plus is Dylon brook reigned in his shots.
Speaker 2: They got him under control to that that's possible.
Speaker 1: The whole like ethering him on the way out and
just deciding that, hey, this person who's super important to
our defense, we're just not going to get any real
value for. Like that's bizarre.
Speaker 2: Yeah, New Orleans, this will be a quick one, not
a whole lot of action. Jordan Hawkins at number fourteen.
I love Jordan Hawkins. UH signed Herb Jones for four
years fifty three point eight million, no options that ends
at his age twenty eight season. That's I'm already seeing
the grade go up, even though I don't know what
we gave them initially. Uh, we have to resign EJ.
Ladell two years, six point two million, first two seasons
of which are I'm not sure what the.
Speaker 1: Game he's not even team anymore. Okay, gone, sign Cody Zeller.
Speaker 2: That's it. That's what we got. Why don't we have
grades for the Pelicans? Did we not grade them? Had
they not done anything last year?
Speaker 1: Were we just because they there's no Oh, why is
the hurd? Did I not have the Herb Jones deal
on here?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I didn't, But you cover that by the way that
people were freaking out over the Herb Jones deal the
best deals in the league. Yeah, it's one of the
best deals in the league. What did we go TVD
because we thought that they were going to make some
type of I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe all I know is that just feel like if
all all I'm seeing is Jordan Hawkins at fourteen and
Herb Jones for basically, you know, four years fifty three,
why is this not an a You have to go
down the road of like, well, they could have done X,
Y and Z and they didn't. It's just got to be.
Speaker 1: Like I think, if you were prepared to let Yonis
Valain Tunis walk, which they apparently were, is, you should
have made more of an effort to move him last
offseason to to tweak the center position. But they were
also kind of still in team continuity mode.
Speaker 2: And if similarly, if you foresaw any chance of the
brandon Ingram situation getting to where it is, this like
in other situations, we're always saying, you can't let the
guy get to the last year of his deal. You know,
we did it to Toronto with Ananobi and Siakam. You
got to you gotta do something if you don't want
to extend him and you think you might get to
next year.
Speaker 1: That's more of a like this offseason grade though, because
sure with Jonas Valentunas, it was you clearly needed like
some diversity at the center position, but a functional diversification
at the center position, and you like kind of punting
on it, I guess, and just service of well, let's
see if this team remains healthy. So I kind of
get I'm still gonna give them an A because that
Herb Jones. I'm sure we gave grades. I'm listening back,
and I think we might have given them an A
in the moment. By the way, just the Jones.
Speaker 2: Deal by itself is an A. And again I think
Hawkins is good is like the kind of shooter you
can build a whole scheme around.
Speaker 1: It's probably mostly unfair to do the whole grading them
against what they didn't do, like at least starkly, because
to me, it's like, if you want to nudge it
down a bit because it's Yonas found shooting is like,
why didn't you explore that? Like do or don't even
view to the lens of Yonah fun shoots is why
weren't you more aggressively trying to shake up the center
position less offseason? I actually think that's fine to demerit
them for. But I think Jordan Hawkins was fine value
at number fourteen, and then when you end up with
Herb Jones, I'm like, you know, making less than ten
percent of salary gap.
Speaker 2: Like, come on, ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Final team also an easy team, even though they are
a mess of transactions here, Uh, the Spurs draft in
Victor women Yam at number one. That's an a plus
and let's move on. Were on. So here's the thing,
and I'd like us to keep this in mind when
we do our preamble for the grades this year, is
that we you and I have dismissed and maybe I've
been driving that bus of just like when we talked
about this, it was, well, there was no choice to
make there, Like we can't grade the spurs in favor
of that, But there's also a risk in the road,
like not taking the road less traveled. So yeah, do
they deserve as much credit as like for taking Wenby
as let's say, the Hornets do for Brandon Miller. No,
because there was an actual decision to be made there.
But you still have to make the decision, and so
that's an A plus move And that's something that I,
at least I shouldn't have put you into that bucket.
I need to do a better job of just we
We didn't factor him enough into their grade, which ended
up by the way, from both of us, I gave it.
You gave him a B plus, but like I think
in the moment, it could have been yeah, okay, don't
grade them higher. But it's not like we didn't give
them any credit for drafting Lemby is basically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to be honest, I'm still not sure what to
do with that, because, like I feel like, if we
listen back to just this episode, in some cases we
just gave the good. We gave a high grade in
Situated Now this is the ultimate There was no decision
to make here, Like all thirty teams make the same decision.
There's probably some instances where we've praised teams for for
kind of doing similar stuff where it's like, well, I mean,
of course you did this. Everybody would have done this
in your position. I don't know how to because it
just should be as simple as they got Victor Wembanyama. Therefore,
their off season wasn't a plus like you got this guy. Yeah,
but I guess I'm still my B plus was very
much hung up on like you could have Like, there's
no one that would have been in charge of the
Spurs picked someone off the street. They would have just
picked woman Yama. So it's like, I don't I don't
know what to do with that.
Speaker 1: I think it's and maybe you're onto something in the
sense of the way we approached it after the draft
is right because we haven't watched him play, But the
way we're approaching it now in the regrade because we've
seen Victor Webb Yama. Yeah, okay, anyone would have made
that decision, but like, how what are you to not
give them credit for drafting one of the probably one
of the best players of all time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I know, it's it's it's I'm not sure
what to do, like, well maybe. So the thing we
didn't mention is the Devin Vessell deal was not I was.
Speaker 1: Gonna go through the is like what would you give?
Let's remove Victor Wimenyama from the equation. But so some
of the deals that stand out to me again Transaction
sleep sheets on YouTube. They traded number thirty three, which
became Leondard Miller of Minnesota, for Utah's twenty six second
in Minnesota's twenty eight second. They signed Julian Champenni to
four years twelve million dollars with only the first year
was guaranteed. That was a really good deal. They turned
the Lakers twenty six second into Jeti Osmon and the
Cavs is twenty thirty second. That's a nice little piece
of business right there. They traded a twenty twenty four second,
a more favorable one from Chicago and New Orleans at
Toronto twenty twenty five second and Miami's twenty twenty eight
second for Reggie Block and that twenty thirty first round
swap with MAVs signed Trey Jones for two years nineteen million.
His salary actually declines in the second year, which is
this coming season, traded a fake first round of the
Suns for campaign and a second and cash they brought back.
They signed mam Muskelli that was the number fifty four
pick in twenty twenty one, and then the Devin Vesselle extension,
which I would say looks just as good or better
five years, one hundred and thirty five million, with the
language unlikely incentives that could bring it up to one
to forty six. I think independent of webin Ya, but
they still have a case for an a offseason where
you just look at the work they did on the
bargins and the only argument against it for me would be, well,
they should have made more use of like all this
flexibility and gone after a win now player, which they
just weren't good enough to do, which.
Speaker 2: They did this summer. Anyway, you get Harrison Barnes and
Chris Paul.
Speaker 1: But that's not like ultra aggressive, right.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, right, I'll just go a minus. And I think, honestly,
like I just don't know what to do with the
Wemby thing. I'm almost giving them an a minus on
everything that excluding Wemby, just because I don't know how
to weigh that draft pick.
Speaker 1: What did they do? What thing out here? Are you? Like?
Speaker 2: No, no, nothing, really like, I don't know. It could
be an A. I guess, I just I guess maybe
the the Cell deal doesn't have had vas Cell had
like a phenomenal year. It's like, oh my god, this
is clearly the number two to Wemby for the next decade.
Maybe that's an A. I don't know. I don't know
if it split hairs between A and A minus. It
just the Wemby thing is still just feels like, how
do you credit a team for doing the most obvious
thing of the entire offseason?
Speaker 1: You know, our homework is we need to come back
when we're ready for actual grades of the twenty four offseason.
We need to come back with a system of how
to view those.
Speaker 2: Right like we understand no other options.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, uh this was I think this was fun.
I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I look, we're now officially accountable on the record, So
congratulations to us.
Speaker 1: Whether you still agree with us or not is relevant.
We are we are. We are on the.
Speaker 2: Speak of the twenty three offseason. Again. That's the other
thing about this. This is the last time we'll talk
about it.
Speaker 1: We've decided that would you like to take us out
of here concert?
Speaker 2: Sure? Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. I hope you
enjoyed Dan's painstakingly crafted graphics. YouTube viewers, because I was
impressed by them, and I hope that you were too.
As a reminder, please if you have not already rate, review, subscribe,
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Keina apologies with jareded Howard