WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:07.400 Well, whiskey, come and take my pain, hondys. 2 00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:08.560 My brain, Oh whiskey. 3 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.400 Why think alone when you can drink it all in 4 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:17.440 with Ricochet's Three Whiskey Happy Hour. Join your bartenders Steve Hayward, 5 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:25.679 John You, and the international woman of Mystery Lucretia where 6 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:26.719 they slapped it up. 7 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:30.480 And David, ain't you easy on the should taps? Got 8 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:35.520 to give me and let that whiskey flow. Welcome everybody 9 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:38.679 to this very special, Merry Christmas edition of the Three 10 00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:41.679 Whiskey Happy Hour. I am joined as always by my 11 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:45.359 favorite and only co hosts Steve Hayward and join you. 12 00:00:45.479 --> 00:00:46.920 How are you this evening, gentlemen? 13 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:49.840 I'm good? But who are you? 14 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:51.719 I mean, nobody cares? 15 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.840 No, you don't need an introduction, that's true. 16 00:00:57.520 --> 00:00:57.679 Hi? 17 00:00:57.799 --> 00:00:58.079 John? 18 00:00:59.520 --> 00:00:59.600 Hi? 19 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:03.719 Can everyone see Steve? Stupid Santa hat? 20 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:07.519 It's Christmas? John? Why are you being such a grinch? 21 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:12.040 You are looking a little grinchy tonight, And I don't 22 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:14.480 blame you because I have some bad news for you. 23 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:18.000 I came prepared through a sky happy Hour with a 24 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:22.519 bottle of Bookers, of which this is the well I 25 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:27.680 can't see the number on it, the seventy third one 26 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:29.799 off the production line, of which only one hundred and 27 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:35.719 two were made. Bookers is made by Jim Beam Distilleries, 28 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:38.120 which has been around since I believe it was seventeen 29 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:43.040 ninety six if I'm not mistaken. However, Wow, Jim Beam 30 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:49.439 is pausing production for a year. I heard this a 31 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:54.840 full year because all of these sort of goodie two 32 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:59.120 shoes gen zers would rather sit home and scroll the 33 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:03.920 Internet with TikTok videos and Instagram videos, and they don't 34 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:06.400 want to drink alcohol, They don't want to go anywhere, 35 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:09.599 they don't want to do anything. And in the article 36 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:11.919 I sent these two guys, the funniest thing about it 37 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:15.960 was was the the author made the comment that, look, 38 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:20.360 these people have uh, you know, free delivery to your 39 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:24.680 home and Uber. Imagine how much drinking we could have 40 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:28.080 done if we had somebody to uber us home every 41 00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:30.159 single time we had a little bit too much to drink. 42 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:33.560 Of course, you're a little bit younger, John, but Steve 43 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:35.719 and I remember the days when we really didn't worry 44 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:43.159 about it all that much. What I mean is is 45 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:48.159 that the the enforcement of dui laws was nowhere near 46 00:02:48.919 --> 00:02:51.960 as stringent as it is today. 47 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:58.000 So I've heard of these wonderful times when one could 48 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.520 drive without a seatbelt and would smoke your cigarettes in 49 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:05.560 the car while driving and drinking simultaneously, and throwing winter 50 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:06.639 out the window as. 51 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:08.919 You went down the highway. 52 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:13.159 It. Yes, I hate to admit I probably did all 53 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:16.719 of those things at one time or another. I yes, 54 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:20.080 although I probably didn't often drive when I was really 55 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:26.159 really drunk, because why I didn't so well, you would 56 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:28.840 have designated drivers, which was always the bummer to be 57 00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:31.560 the designated driver? You know now you just call an uber? 58 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:32.800 Yeah. 59 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:33.120 Yeah. 60 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:34.919 And both my kids when they were in college, I 61 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:37.120 would tell them, you know, they had an Uber account. 62 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:41.199 Don't you dare drive home, here's the Uber account. You 63 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:43.479 just call them. And so I never had any issues 64 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:45.639 with my kids getting DUIs or any things like that. 65 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:48.759 But they're older now and they know better. I'll just 66 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:49.439 leave it at that. 67 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:54.560 Well I will, since we're I'm having killed corn again. 68 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:56.759 This wonderful stuff I got it done. 69 00:03:56.599 --> 00:03:57.919 Is at the end of the second bottle. 70 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:01.360 No still, it's the end of the first bottle. I 71 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:03.280 poached from the second bottle to bring this down to 72 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:05.879 my office. See and let me mention that I have 73 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.400 the I've got the YouTube live stream up going on 74 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:11.000 my other computer, and I can see a chat window. 75 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:14.000 We've got eight people watching live. And if you guys 76 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.000 have a good question or something that you want us 77 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:18.319 to address and it fits, go ahead and put it 78 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:19.800 in the chat window and I'll try and bring it 79 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:20.519 up as we go. 80 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:23.079 Well, so I don't know if I actually made the 81 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:26.680 point clear. Jim Beam is shutting down production for a 82 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:30.720 full year because they have a glut of alcohol, not 83 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:34.040 just in their less expensive that I'd never dream Jim 84 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:38.600 Beam sort of regular stuff. But they're bakers, they're bookers. 85 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:43.560 What's the other one, Basil Hayden. I forget which of 86 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:47.120 the higher end whiskeys come under Jim Beam, But they're 87 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:51.959 shutting down. They're shutting down production of whiskey for a year, 88 00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:54.399 the largest whiskey maker in America. 89 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:57.439 Well, the solution of this is obvious. We need to 90 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:01.839 bring back prohibition. That will sa that will send conception 91 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:05.319 up right. My my favorite Will Rogers line of all 92 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:08.560 time was his squip that, well, at least prohibition is 93 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.439 better than no liquor at all. I always thought was. 94 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:13.279 I mean, he said a lot of great ones, but 95 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:14.079 that's my favorite. 96 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:19.120 Well, I was just in Costco for Christmas Eve. I 97 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:23.199 didn't realize correlate that, but yeah, there were huge hard 98 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:25.519 liquor sales going on at Costco, like. 99 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:28.879 Twenty thirty percent off. Yeah. Yeah, So I'm planning to. 100 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:31.000 Go back the day after Christmas and filler up. 101 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:33.480 Did you I was gonna say, did you stock up 102 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:34.439 or not yet? Huh? 103 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.800 Not yet? There's got to be discounts after Christmas. 104 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.519 Yeah, but I can't imagine being Costco on New Year's Eve. 105 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:43.720 I am not big on crowds. I haven't left the 106 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:48.639 house all day today. I'm afraid of I'm xenophobic. I'll 107 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:53.600 just leave it at that. Or no, no, no, agoraphobic, achorophobic, well, chorophobic. 108 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:57.000 Yeah, but you know, xenophobia. That could be user special bonus. 109 00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:03.040 Yeah. All right, enough of that. We want to talk 110 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:09.040 a little bit today about Christmas in America and what's 111 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:12.199 kind of been happening lately. So I posed to these 112 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.519 guys that something very interesting is happening. And I saw 113 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.120 this just before I came on the podcast. Didn't get 114 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:24.240 to internalize it fully. But even even President Donald Trump, 115 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:29.560 who seems to be following in the footsteps of Thomas Jefferson, 116 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:33.040 and Abraham Lincoln when it comes to his religion. Does 117 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:37.079 that make sense to you guys, that he's very much 118 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:44.720 pro Christianity, very much not sectarian or claiming to have 119 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:47.519 belonged to any church anyway. He's coming out and saying 120 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:51.319 that Christianity is making a revival in America. I want 121 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:52.959 to give you, guys two examples, and then I want 122 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:57.319 to ask John a question. The Sarah Sarah Huckabee, who 123 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:01.160 everyone is known, is a Christian and is not shy 124 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:05.279 about her faith. But when she was asked to, when 125 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:07.439 she had to justify I believe it was giving the 126 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:10.800 day off after Christmas something like that, she instead of 127 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:16.839 doing it in terms of, oh, religious freedom or you know, 128 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:19.360 the culture of Christmas, she came out and said, this 129 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:23.920 is the day that our Savior was born, God became 130 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:26.199 man on earth, and this is why I am giving 131 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:28.800 this day off. And if you don't like it, I 132 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.439 will pray for you. And I think that we've seen 133 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:34.639 a lot of that sort of thing since Charlie Kirk. 134 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:39.959 So I was listening to my favorite, my only favorite, 135 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:48.000 actually Outnumbered co host John You about to answer a question. Yeah, yeah, 136 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:50.639 you're their favorite victim. 137 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:53.079 Yeah, no, this is on this podcast. 138 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:54.399 I'm the victim on that time. 139 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:54.839 I guess. 140 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:57.399 Yeah, they love you, John, It's it's obvious, and they 141 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:00.519 think you're so smart, and they say and then they 142 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:03.240 go back and apologize for saying them because they know 143 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:05.480 you're going to be smarter than they are. It's very funny. 144 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:08.120 But I didn't get to hear your answer when they 145 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:12.519 were asking what is the First Amendment issue when a 146 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:16.600 city wants to have on I guess a public parking 147 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:22.759 lot a nativity scene. Is there a separation of church 148 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:24.720 and state problem? You might want to give the details 149 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:25.040 on that. 150 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:29.519 John, Yeah, so yeah, So first, yeah, I'm not being 151 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:32.159 elevated to a host because I think only women can 152 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:32.559 be the host. 153 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:34.360 This is like a Lucretia dream show. 154 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:37.279 Well, John, well that's not that's not an obstacle. More. 155 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:38.480 You just switched teams. 156 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.879 And there's a guest, the man who's in the middle, 157 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:45.840 but they don't gang up on him the way Lucretia 158 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:47.200 gangs up on the two of us. 159 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:48.639 So I. 160 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:53.559 You know, it's you know, this is a takeoff on 161 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:54.080 a John F. 162 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:54.799 Kennedy joke. 163 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:59.399 So you know Kennedy once said that he had a 164 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:02.879 reception for all the Nobel laureates, and he said, you know, 165 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:05.840 this is the smartest assemblage of people in the White 166 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:10.159 House since Thomas Jefferson eight alone. And I would say, 167 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:14.840 you know, four Fox hosts Women is the greatest collection 168 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:19.639 of feminine talent since Lucretia did a solo podcast. But 169 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:25.440 you know, so you know, on this show they asked 170 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:30.440 about this example of this mayor demanded that a Nativity 171 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:34.919 scene be removed from a public space, publicly owned parking lot, 172 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.679 and then said, because the Constitution requires a separation of 173 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.159 church and state. So I said, you know, this mayor 174 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:46.799 should go back to school because he will discover that 175 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:48.720 the separation of church and state is not a phrase. 176 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:52.200 It appears in the Constitution that the First Amendment only 177 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:59.440 forbids the government from establishing a religion, not promoting religions plural, 178 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.759 and that the Supreme Court had decided this issue several 179 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:07.360 times and it said, if the government wants to open 180 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:11.360 up a public space for religious displays at the holiday season, 181 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:16.080 it can. They just can't say only Presbyterians or maybe 182 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:19.480 even only Christians. So you've had displays which the court 183 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:21.639 is upheld, which would have a Christmas scene and a 184 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:26.120 Nativity as a Nativity scene, and then a Jewish Manora 185 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:30.120 for example, would be okay. I don't know if the 186 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:35.039 government has to allow every possible religion because it has 187 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.799 to have space concerns. And you know what if someone 188 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:39.840 just makes up their own religion and wants to put 189 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:42.679 like some I don't know, wiccan whatever those people are 190 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:44.720 some kind of wicked dispount even. 191 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:45.200 Know what that would be. 192 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:48.440 Would that be like the cauldron from Macbeth with the 193 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:49.279 three witches? 194 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:51.039 I don't know what the wickan would do. 195 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:54.919 But my point is that the Supreme Court has I 196 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:57.200 think undone the mistakes of the Warrant Court, which was 197 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.320 to try to actually separate church and state and to 198 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:05.399 allow the government to promote and support religious belief generally, 199 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:07.639 so long as they don't pick out and single a 200 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:12.159 specific religion to support and to suppress all the others. 201 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:15.320 You might remember, Steve, I'll let you come in on 202 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:18.039 this last year. We just around this time we discussed 203 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:22.799 the fact that the Iowa Capitol Building, as I recall 204 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:27.440 of all places you know, good good Christian girl from 205 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:35.799 Iowa that I am, actually allowed a Satanic display at 206 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:42.360 Christmas time. They removed Thomas Jefferson to put up a 207 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.440 Satanic display. So what do you think, Steve, Does that 208 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.559 mean that the government is being neutral to all religions? 209 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:52.080 I have to think about the satanic display business. I'd 210 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.120 forgotten about that, So you're minded me just now. I 211 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:57.039 think I could construct a case for a government to 212 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.320 say no, but it might take me a while. I 213 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:04.159 do think that the interesting thing here is, for a 214 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:07.279 while the Supreme Court was badly confused or worse on 215 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:09.840 these issues. And I'm thinking thirty forty years ago the 216 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:12.120 Lemon test, which I've forgotten what it is, but I 217 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:14.240 think it's gone now. But the point is that the 218 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:17.919 last ten to fifteen years the Supreme Court has become 219 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:20.879 something of a leading indicator. I mean, you've actually had 220 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.720 some nine zero decisions on the side of religious liberty 221 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:27.639 as we would understand it right. What is that the 222 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:30.360 alliance defending freedom people who cause riots when they show 223 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:33.399 up at law schools has won I think fifteen Supreme 224 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.840 Court cases so and so, and I say a leading 225 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.759 indicator because as you hinted at, is we're seeing this 226 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:44.919 return to church in America. We'll talk about the Charlie 227 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:46.879 Kirk Memorial service. In a moment because I think that 228 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:50.360 was quite significant. But there's the Supreme Court kind of 229 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:52.320 leading the way. I'll just say it. On the substance 230 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.879 of it, Yeah, I mean, I think there still are 231 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:02.399 some incoherencies. Is that a proper plural world? So, you know, 232 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:04.879 we had the extually it's twenty years ago or more now, 233 00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:08.759 we had the Ten Commandments case, and here was a 234 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:11.799 case that they consolidate a case with, was it Alabama 235 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:14.519 and Texas because Texas has the Ten Commandments on the 236 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:17.759 capitol grounds all other stuff, and then Judge Moore in 237 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:21.799 Alabama wanted a big Ten Commandments inside the courthouse, And 238 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:24.840 essentially what the court said was, no, you can't have 239 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:27.960 the big Ten Commandments in Alabama because they're too big, 240 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:30.960 but you can have it on the grounds of the 241 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.279 state capitol because it's not too big. I mean, I 242 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.639 mean that's John. You can correct me if I'm too 243 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:39.720 grotesquely distorting what they said. But I thought that that 244 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:44.519 was an incoherent ruling because the implicit rationale was, well, 245 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:47.279 you don't take it as seriously if it's not so big, 246 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:49.120 but if you really put it out front and center, 247 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:51.000 it means you really mean it, and we can't have 248 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:54.799 displays of religion that really mean it, or go back 249 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:56.720 even further to the seventies, you had the pair of 250 00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:59.320 cases I forget which ones they were, but as the 251 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:02.879 one that's said that the local school district could not 252 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:06.679 give away or loan textbooks that weren't using anymore to 253 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.799 the local Catholic parochial schools. But then in a separate 254 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.440 case nearly at the same time, they said the public 255 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:17.240 schools could give maps to parochial schools for their buses 256 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.200 that picked up students. And that's what prompted pat and 257 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:22.480 Wey in a hand to say, how would Supreme Court 258 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:27.279 handle an atlas in a book of maps? And I 259 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.840 understand the reasoning of why maps made sense. That wasn't 260 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:33.080 actually religion. It was simply a police power thing. But 261 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:35.440 still there's still, at the end of the day, this 262 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:38.600 tortured reasoning we've had towards religion in the public square 263 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:41.600 for decades. I think it's trending the other way slowly. 264 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:43.320 I kind of like it. Can I just add one 265 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.279 quick joke though, John, you mentioned the Kennedy line about 266 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:51.399 the greatest assembly of mine since Jefferson dined alone there's 267 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:53.919 a Reagan era version of that, which somebody said it 268 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:56.879 wasn't Reagan. Sadly, someone said, this is the greatest assembly 269 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:00.399 of brains in the White House since Richard Diamond Darman 270 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:07.000 dined alone, which he did often. Oh no, no, we hated 271 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.080 Richard Darman. He was horrible. He's a terrible person. 272 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:09.799 It was. 273 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:11.919 Martin Anderson has said to me once, why do people 274 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:14.879 take an instant dislike to Richard Darman? Saves time? 275 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.200 Don't say that as a joke about Ted Cruz, which. 276 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:25.759 Was right, Yeah, not fair, but I get it, yes, right, Yeah. 277 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:28.600 The one done them I'd make on Steve's description of 278 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.159 the cases is that there's I think there's been a 279 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.639 radical change by the Roberts Quarter religion because of the 280 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:40.120 Warrnancourt decisions. The a lot of like two bit local 281 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:42.919 officials like this guy we're talking about in South Carolina, 282 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:49.039 believe that the government had a telling purpose to exclude 283 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:53.840 religion from public life, and so they would allow Yeah, 284 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:59.320 satanic worshipers and cannibals whoever you want to mention, you know, 285 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.879 fly flag in front of the Boston City Hall, or 286 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:06.919 you know, have a demonstration of some kind. But they 287 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.200 would say we are required to stop religious groups. 288 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:11.720 And so the one thing that. 289 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.960 Religious groups did that was very clever in terms of 290 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:20.720 litigation was to say, if you interfere with us participating 291 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.600 on an equal footing with other groups, you've not only 292 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:26.919 deprived us of the free exercise of religion, even though 293 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.080 the government's saying, oh, we can't do that because otherwise 294 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:32.679 we'd be violating the establishment clause. But they've also said, 295 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:34.679 and this was I think part of what helped them 296 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:38.480 start winning even under the Renquesst Court, was to say, 297 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:41.679 you could think of religions as having as being free 298 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:46.200 speech organizations like the ACLU or you know, the Republican Party, 299 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:48.879 and so if you exclude religious groups, you're actually violating 300 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.200 their free speech rights and the right of belief to 301 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.440 pursue this idea that religion has to be extinguished from 302 00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:58.200 the public sphere. And I think that's what is the 303 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.399 That was the change in the arguments that started to 304 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:03.159 allow religious groups really to. 305 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:03.919 Pile on the winds. 306 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:05.880 And then you know, under the Roberts Court it's been 307 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.599 almost an unbroken winning streak. 308 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.240 For right and it's also been much more how should 309 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.039 I say, true to the original intent of the First 310 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.160 Amendment under the Roberts Court than it was under the ranks. 311 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:23.440 You're right, and you can't blame those litigants for going 312 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.599 to the court and asking for some relief based upon 313 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.519 any way they thought they might get it. But of course, 314 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:34.519 the establishment clause doesn't mean you can't have a manger scene, 315 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:38.000 you can't allow a moment of silent prayer in schools. 316 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:42.200 It doesn't mean that school children, school aged children can 317 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.519 never be exposed to something that they might somehow feel 318 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:47.759 uncomfortable about. That was I mean, that had to be 319 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:51.079 the dumbest decision ever by the Supreme Court, and there's 320 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:53.960 been a lot of them, and so you know, the 321 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:58.519 Roberts Court, you're right, they took it further, but they 322 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.359 did it ach in my opinion, much more solid ground 323 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:04.039 ways that made a lot more sense. Not that there's 324 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:07.039 anything wrong with saying that you have a First Amendment 325 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.559 freedom of speech, right to practice your religion, but you 326 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:17.720 also have a dual, dually protected first and foremost in 327 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.920 the First Amendment right not to have a religion forced 328 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:28.880 upon you, a specific, established, government sponsored religion force upon you, 329 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.960 But that you have the freedom to practice your religion 330 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.799 without government interference. That's the most amazing thing in many ways, 331 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:39.759 it's happened in the history of civilization and why America 332 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:45.039 became the free place that it is. Was Sorry, I'm 333 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:47.680 pontificating here. It don't mean to, but I believe that. 334 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:50.200 Well I could do that too. I mean, I think 335 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:54.160 about you know, I always like to point out to 336 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:59.319 students that Britain embraced toleration with the Toleration Act of 337 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:01.720 what that's part of the sixteen eighty eight Revolution. But 338 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:05.319 just think about the title of the Act and the 339 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:08.079 actual language of it is, we will tolerate you. We 340 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:10.160 will no longer throw you in jail for not being 341 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.039 an Anglican. There were still religious tests for office, by 342 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:16.519 the way, that lasted well into the nineteenth century. They 343 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:20.640 just meant it. It is decriminalized being a nonconformist. Gee, 344 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:23.079 well that's real. And it was you know Washington's famous 345 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:27.000 letter to the Hebrew Congregation at Newport when he was 346 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:30.000 president saying, it's now no more that toleration is spoken of, 347 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:32.839 spoken as though it were by the indulgence of one 348 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.599 group that another group gets to enjoy their natural rights 349 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.119 of conscience. That was brand new, right, I mean was 350 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:41.799 huge that and along with John you probably singleed this 351 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.559 out too with students our constitution saying no religious tests, 352 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.960 republic office, first constitution anywhere that ever said that in 353 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.200 the world. I think right as I say, it was 354 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:56.720 not true in Britain until the twentieth century. For goodness sake. Now, 355 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.480 you know, we often talk about the theological political problem 356 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.920 and the nutlical philosophy and the rest of that. I 357 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:08.000 do have a one of our viewers on YouTube asks 358 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.079 about something. I mean, I've heard this, I forgot about it, 359 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.720 but what's the Blaine Amendment and how is that implicated 360 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:14.920 in all this I have forgotten. 361 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:18.240 I have to say, oh, well, the Blaine Amendment was 362 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:22.880 this effort to so this was an effort to try 363 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.119 to change the constitution that failed. You know, Blaine, if 364 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:30.519 I remember correctly, was a losing presidential candidate for the 365 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:35.079 Democratic Party in the late nineteenth century, and he so 366 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.160 I believe, after you lost, there were a number of 367 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:42.119 these Blaine amendments that were added to state constitutions, which 368 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:44.880 in practical effect, I don't think they were all worded 369 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.720 the exact same way, but am practical effect for bade 370 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:54.960 money going to not just churches, but religious schools. And 371 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:00.799 I think it's interesting the Supreme Court these last few 372 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:06.119 cases has essentially held these amendments to be unconstitutional, even 373 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.759 if they haven't directly said so. So you remember, there 374 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:13.000 are several examples where the Court where states and cities 375 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:19.680 have tried to exclude religious groups from participating in grant programs, 376 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:23.440 for example, that are opened to everybody else. So the 377 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:25.160 one well known wass is I think this involved the 378 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:29.160 Lutheran Church. You know, nonprofits could go to the state 379 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:31.519 and say ask for a grant to I think in 380 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:36.279 this case repave the parking lot. And the government said 381 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:39.880 everybody but religious groups and churches can participate in this 382 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:43.160 grant program. And they would say, because the Blame Amendment 383 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:47.920 in our state constitution requires us to forbid any money 384 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:51.119 going to any religious organization. And this Freme course struck 385 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:52.960 that down for the reasons we gave. Really that they're 386 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.680 the government singling out religious groups for this favorite treatment 387 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:58.440 violates the free exercise clause. 388 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:00.599 Those Blane amendments. 389 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.559 I don't think that court has said they're all unconstitutional, 390 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.319 but effectively you can see the writing on the law and. 391 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.519 They've gone from other I'm just going to say really quickly, 392 00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:11.839 sorry Steve, that not only have they done things like 393 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:16.640 parking lots, but in my state. Now I know that 394 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:22.079 they don't have a Blaine Amendment state equivalent, but in 395 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:27.279 my state, I can and do give twenty five hundred 396 00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:30.599 dollars for a married couple directly to a Catholic school 397 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:34.720 in my community. And it is not an write off, 398 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.359 It is a tax exemption. It comes off of my 399 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:41.160 state taxes. But what I would say is, in many 400 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:47.200 places the Blaine Amendments are not necessarily overturned, but there 401 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:49.599