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<v Speaker 1>One of the key fundamental innovations of the crypto space,

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<v Speaker 1>Quarde frankly, is to launch a token that can have

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<v Speaker 1>network effects in where you can have value accrule of

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<v Speaker 1>the network that in and of itself, I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>should be forgotten. The very novel way to do capital formation,

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<v Speaker 1>which we as you know, being active in traditional capital

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<v Speaker 1>markets and putting traditional financial assets on chain. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>very interesting concept for usto to look at.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think by twenty thirty we're going to have

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<v Speaker 2>full twenty four to seven, three hundred and sixty five.

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<v Speaker 1>Day markets probably?

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<v Speaker 2>To be honest, this episode is brought to you by

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<v Speaker 2>I Trust Capital. I Trust Capital gives you a great

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<v Speaker 2>safe alternative. So many of you know about self custody.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great option, but you can also use I

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<v Speaker 2>with the rise of crypto scams and phishing attacks, a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of retail investors are losing their shirts. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>let's be honest, right, it sucks to hear that exchanges

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<v Speaker 2>are getting hacked. Well, I Trust Capital does things a

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<v Speaker 2>bit different here. They use Ford Bank as they're qualified custudents,

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<v Speaker 2>so they're actually using a bank here, and they have

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<v Speaker 2>partnerships with coinbased Prime Fidelity and Fireblocks. They are fully

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<v Speaker 2>so not many platforms offer this. This is very unique

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<v Speaker 2>to I Trust Capital and folks, most recently we heard

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<v Speaker 2>from President Trump that the United States is looking to

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<v Speaker 2>unlock for one case to be able to participate in crypto. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>you can get ahead of the curve by using I

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a user of the platform. I have an account

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<v Speaker 2>is I Trustcapital dot com slash Thinking Crypto, you can

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<v Speaker 2>learn about this great, safe, and awesome way to buy, sell,

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<v Speaker 2>and custod your crypto. A great alternative once again with

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<v Speaker 2>tax advantages and a lot of safety, very safe compared

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<v Speaker 2>to many exchanges, and all the links will be in

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<v Speaker 2>a description. Check it out. Hey, folks, welcome into the

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<v Speaker 2>Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and my

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<v Speaker 2>guest today is Ian Debode, who is the chief strategy

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<v Speaker 2>officer at Ondo Finance. Ian, great to have you.

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<v Speaker 1>On, Great to be here. Thanks for having me Tony. Ian.

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<v Speaker 2>As we were talking about before the recording, I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>fan of Hodo. I'm an Ondo token holder. I love

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<v Speaker 2>what you guys are doing, so I'm excited to dive

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<v Speaker 2>into the details about all the great work and initiatives

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<v Speaker 2>that you and the folks there are working on. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>kick it off with your background. Tell us a bit

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<v Speaker 2>about yourself, where you're from and your professional background.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and per say so. I'm originally from Belgium, born

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<v Speaker 1>and raised. Came to us in twenty thirteen for business school,

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<v Speaker 1>decided to stick around by trading. I'm actually an engineer.

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<v Speaker 1>I used to be. I used to work at a

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<v Speaker 1>semiconductor company as an R and D engineer or product manager,

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<v Speaker 1>but that feels like forever ago. Those business school actually

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<v Speaker 1>worked for almost a decade at McKinsey and Company as

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<v Speaker 1>the consultancy shop. I ended up managing all their working

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<v Speaker 1>digital assets, so working primarily with all of the trad

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<v Speaker 1>fis on what are digital assets, where do they not?

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<v Speaker 1>What can you do with them? And about a year

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<v Speaker 1>and a half ago I joined Onto as the Chief

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<v Speaker 1>strategy Officer, really to focus on obviously the strategy, corporate development,

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<v Speaker 1>go to market, all sorts of fun things that you

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<v Speaker 1>get to do at a ultimately small startup.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely So was your first encounter with blockchain and digital

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<v Speaker 2>assets and crypto at McKenzie or did you hear about

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<v Speaker 2>it before? Some people have heard about bitcoin and they

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<v Speaker 2>were like, man, I wish i'd paid attention.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, it's funny. I'd heard about bitcoin, but it

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<v Speaker 1>never really did it for me. Although as I'm longer

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<v Speaker 1>in the space, the more I appreciate the OG. But

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<v Speaker 1>the moment I read about Ethereum, that's when it flicked

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<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden. I mean, at the time, even

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<v Speaker 1>at McKinsey, I was doing some work in financial services

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<v Speaker 1>with some of the TRACIFI giants and I was just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of shocked at how inefficient the system was, quite frankly,

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<v Speaker 1>and then when I read about Ethereum and the whole

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<v Speaker 1>concept of smart contract tech stack that could operate twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four to seven. I mean, mind you, this was pre

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<v Speaker 1>DeFi though, you know, I hadn't really seen it, but conceptually,

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<v Speaker 1>the whole concept of having a smart contract that could

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<v Speaker 1>execute code twenty four to seven, that could do basic

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<v Speaker 1>functionality that finance did that really spoke to me from

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<v Speaker 1>a very early on. So I ended up then trying

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<v Speaker 1>to do as much blockchain work within McKinsey as I could.

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't really need mckenzi, primarily in the visa reasons,

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<v Speaker 1>so even if I wanted to stay in the US,

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't really leave Kinsey. So that caused me to

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<v Speaker 1>add a very early onset in my McKinsey career try

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<v Speaker 1>to do as much blockchain work or crypto work as

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<v Speaker 1>I possibly could. Back then, there wasn't a lot. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the first project I did was on tokenization actually in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen for some French banks. Wow, And back then

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<v Speaker 1>it was all, you know, blockchain, not crypto. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>there's still some of that, but increasingly less so. But

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<v Speaker 1>that was the first time that I did anything professionally

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<v Speaker 1>with blockchain. Back in twenty sixteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's fascinating because that's so early twenty sixteen. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think I got into the market then. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>hear about the word tokenization till years later. And then

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<v Speaker 2>you mentioned, you know, the dynamic between blockchain and crypto,

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<v Speaker 2>because there's always been kind of the narrative battle taking place.

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<v Speaker 2>But you need both. I mean, you can't have a

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<v Speaker 2>public blockchain with a public with some sort of currency

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<v Speaker 2>greasing the network. And I think people don't really recognize that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know one hundred percent. I encountered that so

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<v Speaker 1>many times with a lot of these traps. It's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>but I like blotching and I don't like crypto, And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, well, you can't really have one versus the other,

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<v Speaker 1>because otherwise, how are you going to essentially pay your

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<v Speaker 1>validator network to make sure that it gets included. And

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<v Speaker 1>then they're like, well, why don't you just use cast

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, well, you can, but that's not necessarily decentralized system.

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<v Speaker 1>So you have to like walk them through the concept

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<v Speaker 1>of why does a native asset to a chain make

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<v Speaker 1>sense in the first place. Needless to say, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the trad files just don't get it because for

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<v Speaker 1>a trad FI they have to meet certain compliance requirements anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>So the whole concept of a decentralized system is very

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<v Speaker 1>foreign to them because all the time that would then

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<v Speaker 1>ask the question, but like what's the throat to choke,

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<v Speaker 1>like where is a regulator going to go? You're like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's kind of not how this system is ultimately designed

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<v Speaker 1>per se, and you have to get into the nuance.

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<v Speaker 1>So there was a lot of education to do, which

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<v Speaker 1>I think in part is why this whole concept of

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<v Speaker 1>tokenization of traditional financial assets and adoption by the draft

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<v Speaker 1>flights truly has taken quite frankly over a decade.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, and then it's also maybe a very foreign concept

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<v Speaker 2>where you have the convergence of a network with a

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<v Speaker 2>currency or something that holds value, because before it was

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<v Speaker 2>just here's the protocol, there's a company behind it, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you get shares, private equity, IPO, YadA, YadA. But for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time you have this conversion. So I think

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<v Speaker 2>for a lot of people, even retail outside institution, they're like, so,

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<v Speaker 2>why do you need the token or why do you

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<v Speaker 2>what's blockchain and what's crypto? It's like hard for them

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<v Speaker 2>to understand its paradigm shift.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, one hundred percent, and I mean quite frank

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that's why it's a journey. I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>everyone who gets into crypto has a million questions and

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<v Speaker 1>it just takes some time for you to ultimately work

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<v Speaker 1>through all of them and to really get what this

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<v Speaker 1>stuff is about. And then you know, you ultimately also

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<v Speaker 1>start to appreciate and realize that it's kind of all

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<v Speaker 1>of a spectrum. Like the centralization is a spectrum. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the trust assumptions in asset, that's his spectrum. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>a very nuanced and complex space that just requires some

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<v Speaker 1>time to work through. And quite frankly, you even see

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<v Speaker 1>it now on crypto Twitter. In the crypto space these days,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of these RWA issuers and providers that

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<v Speaker 1>are starting to build these purpose build chains right like

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<v Speaker 1>Temple and Arc and you get a lot of debate

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<v Speaker 1>around wait is that really a blockchain? So yeah, those

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<v Speaker 1>debates have been around for ten years and I don't

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<v Speaker 1>see them stopping quite frankly, for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And you know, time will tell the winners and

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<v Speaker 2>what the market wants, and you know, what gets real

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<v Speaker 2>world adoption. I think there's a lot of players right now,

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<v Speaker 2>which is this is a normal process. It's healthy as well,

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<v Speaker 2>trying to figure out maybe there are some solutions that

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<v Speaker 2>exist that don't have a problem, but there are certainly

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<v Speaker 2>folks like I believe, like you guys on it. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not saying that because you're on the podcast, but I

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<v Speaker 2>believe what you're you folks are doing. You know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to talk about onto global markets and so forth,

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<v Speaker 2>but you're really building a key infrastructure item for the

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<v Speaker 2>adoption of you know, the technology and tokenization and much more.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, one hundred percent. With a lot of crypto. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>crypto sometimes gets a bad reputation because a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people in crypto think, you know, build it and they

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<v Speaker 1>will come, and that does not necessarily how things play out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet at the same time, I think you can credibly

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<v Speaker 1>say that a lot of infrastructure that has been built

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<v Speaker 1>in crypto initially was build it and they will come.

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<v Speaker 1>And turns out a lot of these crypto engineers and

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<v Speaker 1>developers were ahead of their time and build something that

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<v Speaker 1>maybe at the time wasn't necessarily needed. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>three four years down the line, people look at that

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<v Speaker 1>and say, oh wow, that's actually pretty innovative. So I think,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, time will tell to your point on how

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<v Speaker 1>this space plays out. It's kind of a cliche, but

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<v Speaker 1>I do think ultimately we are still pretty early. But

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes when you look at some of these crypto prices,

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<v Speaker 1>it's hard to believe.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's so fascinating the two ends of the spectrum

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<v Speaker 2>here with the building but also the speculative aspect of

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<v Speaker 2>the coins, which it is what it is. Human beings

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<v Speaker 2>are speculative. Markets are speculative, and it happened in the

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<v Speaker 2>dot com boom and the real estate boom and all

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<v Speaker 2>these things. So can't escape it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, can't escape it. Tohoman nature, I believe. But the

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<v Speaker 1>fund like one of the key fundamental innovations of the

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<v Speaker 1>crypto space, quite frankly, is to launch a token that

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<v Speaker 1>can have network effects and where you can have value

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<v Speaker 1>accrule of the network. That in and of itself I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think should be forgotten. It's a very novel way

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<v Speaker 1>to do capital formation, which we as you know, being

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<v Speaker 1>active in traditional capital markets and putting traditional financial assets

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<v Speaker 1>on chain. It's a very interesting concept for us also

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<v Speaker 1>look at.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's talk a bit about that because it's still

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<v Speaker 2>something I'm noodling on and it's so fascinating, and I

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<v Speaker 2>try to explain it to people because they ask, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>why is this mean coin worth money? And I try

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<v Speaker 2>to explain network effects, metcaps law and reads law that

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<v Speaker 2>take the real world, or I should say not the

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<v Speaker 2>real world, but the non digital world. Politics, religion, people

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<v Speaker 2>who crowd around a movement. That's a network being built there,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's now it's in a digital form and there

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<v Speaker 2>is a financial component to it. So that's all it is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's people coming together agreeing this has value. We believe

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<v Speaker 2>in this, even if it's a silly meme.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah, I mean there's two there's two schools of

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts in terms of what I mean. There's price in

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<v Speaker 1>there's value, right, and people conflate the two often. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that the dominant school of thought is that the

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<v Speaker 1>way to value any type of business is to look

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<v Speaker 1>at the underlying cash flow that it generates. How much

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<v Speaker 1>of the cash flow does that when I hold a

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<v Speaker 1>particular instrument, does that give me claim to and as

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<v Speaker 1>a result, how much is that ultimately worth? You know

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<v Speaker 1>that that clearly it has some merit to it if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at how a lot of companies are valued

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<v Speaker 1>and dividend payouts and the like. But I think the

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<v Speaker 1>reality is that oftentimes whatever you end up paying for

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<v Speaker 1>something in the price of the acid, and the price

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<v Speaker 1>of the acid is dependent on how many people that

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<v Speaker 1>want to buy a particular thing, right, and so there

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<v Speaker 1>are a lot of things that people are willing to

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<v Speaker 1>pay money for, But when you look at the underlying

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<v Speaker 1>value from a cash flow perspective, it's not really there.

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<v Speaker 1>Does that mean that the price that people pay is

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<v Speaker 1>unreasonable or not right, well, you know, to be debated,

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<v Speaker 1>because people clearly pay the money for it and are

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<v Speaker 1>willing to pay for it. So I think it's just

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<v Speaker 1>different schools of thought whether you look at price or value,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's a very complicated discussion to have.

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<v Speaker 2>Frankly, absolutely, I feel there's going to be a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of studies about these things, but huge generation like why

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<v Speaker 2>is those coin on ariz.

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<v Speaker 1>For Oh boy, that means yes, quite, It's so funny.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like human behavior on the blockchain. It's so fascinating.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm curious. You know, what your perspective is of your

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<v Speaker 2>time at Mackenzie and you know, even going back to

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<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen and now where things are at, I mean, Ian,

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<v Speaker 2>it's an amazing growth and surge of adoption by trad fight.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you blown away by the amount of adoption we're.

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<v Speaker 1>Seeing, Oh for sure, and I mean relative to twenty sixteen, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but even relative it is quite frankly at twenty twenty three,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just night and day, right, I think the space

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<v Speaker 1>has come a very very long way. The infrastructure has

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<v Speaker 1>been developed a lot more than back in twenty sixteen.

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<v Speaker 1>The liquidity that's available also grew quite a bit. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>this really is the innovation of the stable coin that

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<v Speaker 1>really was a key unlock for this entire space to

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<v Speaker 1>really mature and unlock, because you could have crypto that was,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, around in the ecosystem, and you could even

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<v Speaker 1>put traditional financial assets on a blockchain, but all the

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<v Speaker 1>way back to twenty sixteen, but what were you going

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<v Speaker 1>to do with the actual settlement of these instruments. You

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<v Speaker 1>needed a cash leg, which ended up being a stable

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<v Speaker 1>coin leg. So stable coins truly were the first zero

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<v Speaker 1>to one innovation I think in how to make all

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<v Speaker 1>of this work, which back in twenty twenty sixteen, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean stable coins existed, but they were so small

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't really matter. I think, DeFi was the other

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<v Speaker 1>massive zero to one innovation where all of a sudden

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<v Speaker 1>people could actually see how this could work in the

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four to seven autonomous fashion, And there was a

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<v Speaker 1>ton of innovation happening back in twenty twenty twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>one in the space. And then the last thing that

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<v Speaker 1>really unlocked post twenty twenty three really is the regulatory

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<v Speaker 1>clarity and the attitude of the regulators. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>was the final key unlocked that really needed to happen,

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<v Speaker 1>where the ETFs played a very interesting role. Ultimately, that

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<v Speaker 1>was the first introduction of crypto into the mainstream where

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<v Speaker 1>it was very very clear that there was a ton

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<v Speaker 1>of untapped demand and crypto ownership and appetite was a

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<v Speaker 1>lot broader than I think what the other administrations had expected,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that created a lot of visibility for

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<v Speaker 1>the space. Obviously, the Trumpet administration right now is very

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<v Speaker 1>crypto friendly and wants to make America the home of crypto.

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<v Speaker 1>But all of those things combined over the past ten years,

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<v Speaker 1>I think have finally led us to this moment and

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<v Speaker 1>the amount of trad fi interest in almost fomo quite

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<v Speaker 1>frankly that I see in the space is really incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean the names that are involved, and we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to talk a bit about some of them that

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<v Speaker 2>are using Onto and partnering with you. But before we

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<v Speaker 2>get ahead of ourselves here, give a quick overview of

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<v Speaker 2>ONDO for those who may not know what is Ondo

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<v Speaker 2>and how's it work and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>For sure, So think of ONO as a company. We

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<v Speaker 1>put traditional financial assets on block shainrails and make them

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<v Speaker 1>available to a global audience. This is really what a

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<v Speaker 1>stable coin piloted with cash we do for treasury stocks

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<v Speaker 1>and etf We also develop the services and infrastructure to

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<v Speaker 1>make that issuance and distribution process more seamless and to

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<v Speaker 1>give real utility to these assets. We did that back

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<v Speaker 1>in the day when we developed the flux Finance protocol,

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<v Speaker 1>which was the first example of how a rebuild market

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<v Speaker 1>could work with tokenized treasuries as collateral. So we started

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<v Speaker 1>our entire journey, really, i'd say, back in twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>two twenty twenty three, by tokenizing treasuries in the first instance.

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<v Speaker 1>We looked at stable coins as having product market fit.

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<v Speaker 1>Stable coins are beautiful products, but they're not perfect they

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<v Speaker 1>actually don't give you very good investor protections and they

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<v Speaker 1>don't pay out yield to it's euroup to their holders,

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<v Speaker 1>and so to solve both of those issues, we believed

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<v Speaker 1>at a token its treasury fund with a lot out

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<v Speaker 1>of investor protections was actually the way to go. We

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<v Speaker 1>started doing that with a product called OUSG. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>permissioned tokenized treasury fund. At the time, it was pretty

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<v Speaker 1>innovative because it was the first time that a tokenice

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<v Speaker 1>treasury fund, which is essentially security, could be transferred peer

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<v Speaker 1>to peer on chain as long as you were onboarded

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<v Speaker 1>with us. That also meant that you could allow list

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<v Speaker 1>whitelist a smart contract to then use this asset as

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<v Speaker 1>collateral in that ended up being flux Finance. So we

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<v Speaker 1>started really with the first peer to peer transferable tokenize

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<v Speaker 1>treasury fund. We have since expanded that mission to tokenize

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<v Speaker 1>other tokenized treasury funds that are permission lofts in the

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<v Speaker 1>secondary market, very much like a stable coin, but it

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<v Speaker 1>still pays out yield on a daily basis. And most

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<v Speaker 1>recently we also launched onto Global Markets, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>platform to tokenize any stock and etf that you want.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's talk a bit about onto global markets. So

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<v Speaker 2>essentially any institution can come plug in, launch their token

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<v Speaker 2>ied asset and push it out to the market.

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<v Speaker 1>We can actually do that with no permission even needed.

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<v Speaker 1>So any stock or ETF that is traded on your

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<v Speaker 1>traditional financial exchanges and is available in a normal brokerage account,

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<v Speaker 1>we can put that on chain now and make that

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<v Speaker 1>available to non UFS investors in the primary market, so

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<v Speaker 1>think of a global audience. These assets are in a

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<v Speaker 1>stable coin like format, so there are permissionless in the

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<v Speaker 1>secondary market, meaning that you can use them in D

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<v Speaker 1>five however you want twenty four to seven. They are

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<v Speaker 1>all fully backed one for one. So for every token

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<v Speaker 1>that we issue, there is a let's say it's a

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<v Speaker 1>token iced Tesla token, right, there will be Tesla stock

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<v Speaker 1>sitting in a brokerage account that is itmovable, plus a

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<v Speaker 1>large collateral buffer on top so that people can rest

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<v Speaker 1>assured that there's always enough collateral backing the tokens out there.

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<v Speaker 1>And ultimately the benefit of the platform that we've developed

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<v Speaker 1>is that we can put in stock and ETF on chain,

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<v Speaker 1>which is very helpful for a lot of the crypto exchanges.

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<v Speaker 1>In the crypto wallets that really want to offer their

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<v Speaker 1>users access to these stocks and ETFs, but for them

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<v Speaker 1>to work with the traditional financial system is a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more complicated than if they can just use tokenie stocks

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<v Speaker 1>and ETFs, where the settlement can happen in stable coins.

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<v Speaker 1>These things can trade twenty four to seven, all sorts

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<v Speaker 1>of benefits relative to the traditional system.

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<v Speaker 2>You a question I have, and it's not just specific

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<v Speaker 2>to Ondo, but just in general, when the tokenization of

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<v Speaker 2>an asset takes place, and I think you touched a

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<v Speaker 2>bit on this that you know the asset sits in

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<v Speaker 2>the brokerage, but how do we verify that? How do

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<v Speaker 2>we see the bridge that connects the tokenized asset on

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<v Speaker 2>the blockchain to the physical asset, whether it be gold

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<v Speaker 2>or if you're tokenized real estate or if it's stock.

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<v Speaker 2>Where can one say I need to see that bridge

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<v Speaker 2>where all this is connected.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a great question, because ultimately, when you tokenize something,

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<v Speaker 1>trust and transparency is incredibly You can put a stock

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<v Speaker 1>on chain and it's a synthetic asset and you can

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<v Speaker 1>claim that it's a token I stop, but if there's

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<v Speaker 1>nothing backing it, I would not recommend that anyone buy it.

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<v Speaker 1>So we take a lot of pride in the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that all of our assets are fully backed. We actually

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<v Speaker 1>the tokens that you hold on chain, they're tokenized notes.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a debt instrument relative to the issuer of the tokens.

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<v Speaker 1>That issuer can issue these tokens that is really debt,

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<v Speaker 1>and they then hold the assets underlying or backing that

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<v Speaker 1>token in a clearing broker account plus a collateral buffer

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<v Speaker 1>on top. We have done this the similar structure that

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<v Speaker 1>we did for USDY, that is that permissionless tokenized treasury product.

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<v Speaker 1>We've had it for about two years you've take out

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<v Speaker 1>in the market. We have an agreement with a third

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<v Speaker 1>party agents called the collateral Agent. They have access to

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<v Speaker 1>our brokerage accounts, so they can literally just see the

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<v Speaker 1>value in the account on a daily basis, make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that whatever we are holding that we say we hold,

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<v Speaker 1>we actually hold, and that we have everything fully collateralized,

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<v Speaker 1>plus the collateral buffer on top. They post daily attestations

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<v Speaker 1>for everyone to see, so that anyone can go to

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<v Speaker 1>our website and take a look and say, hey, it's

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<v Speaker 1>really fully backed. They also have a legal obligation that

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<v Speaker 1>when we as the issuer, failed to meet a redemption

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<v Speaker 1>in a timely matter, or if they look at the

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<v Speaker 1>account and say, oh, a drop below a certain level,

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<v Speaker 1>they are legally obligated to seize all of the assets,

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<v Speaker 1>sell it for cash, and repay the debt holders of

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<v Speaker 1>the issuer, which is really the token holders in the

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<v Speaker 1>first place. So these things are structured in a fully

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<v Speaker 1>bankruptcy remote way. When you hold a token, you actually

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<v Speaker 1>have a security interest in the collateral that is perfected

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<v Speaker 1>by a third party, and that third party also posts

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<v Speaker 1>daily attestations that anyone can take a look at.

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<v Speaker 2>That's great, great to hear. And then is there ever

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<v Speaker 2>a situation where the tokenized assets need to be in

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<v Speaker 2>a custodian or is it just all in smart contracts?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, so the underlying sits in a custodian right, so

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<v Speaker 1>the actual tizla shares of the actualist and P five

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<v Speaker 1>hundred ETF that all sits at the actual custodian custodian

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<v Speaker 1>we issue the tokens against that. These assets are mobilized

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<v Speaker 1>so they can't move. But these tokens then obviously can

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<v Speaker 1>freely float wherever. You can use those tokens out of

418
00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.759
<v Speaker 1>custodian too. If you want, you know, if you're holding

419
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:32.920
<v Speaker 1>them and you don't plan to move them anytime soon.

420
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.880
<v Speaker 1>We do have support from some of the major custodians

421
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.799
<v Speaker 1>in the space, so that also an institution can feel

422
00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:42.039
<v Speaker 1>comfortable custodying these assets in the way that they want.

423
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Got it, guy, Thank you for that insight, because that

424
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.319
<v Speaker 2>is a question I've had once again just in general.

425
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:50.160
<v Speaker 2>So great to get that insight. You know, you mentioned

426
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.519
<v Speaker 2>the tokenization of stocks and the ability for people around

427
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.359
<v Speaker 2>the globe to access certain markets and assets they have

428
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:58.599
<v Speaker 2>never been able to. And I'm not sure how many

429
00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:00.359
<v Speaker 2>people know about this, but if you're in some country

430
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.039
<v Speaker 2>in Africa, you can access the New York Stock Exchange

431
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.839
<v Speaker 2>or free platin America right, but now you can and

432
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:10.240
<v Speaker 2>that could change your life, opening up investment opportunities, wealth opportunities,

433
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.680
<v Speaker 2>and obviously some banking opportunities with stable coins and so forth.

434
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:17.519
<v Speaker 2>So tell us about your plan to expand to other

435
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:21.640
<v Speaker 2>markets and are there regulatory hurdles or not necessarily yet?

436
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:25.920
<v Speaker 1>No, Yeah, great question. So I fully agree with your

437
00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:29.079
<v Speaker 1>point in that this is really initially a global access play.

438
00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:33.240
<v Speaker 1>The number of people out there globally who clearly want

439
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:36.039
<v Speaker 1>to have access to US capital markets and invest in

440
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:40.519
<v Speaker 1>it is pretty substantial, right We as Americans, we don't

441
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:44.000
<v Speaker 1>really appreciate how difficult it is in many jurisdictions to

442
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.079
<v Speaker 1>get a brokerage account. And even when you can, the

443
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.519
<v Speaker 1>fees to buy any of these products, both FX fees

444
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:54.039
<v Speaker 1>and then just normal you know, buy and selfie are

445
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.119
<v Speaker 1>quite frankly absurd, right, So we are very excited to

446
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:00.880
<v Speaker 1>have a platform that we can put all of these

447
00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:04.759
<v Speaker 1>US capital market assets on crypto chain and make them

448
00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:07.839
<v Speaker 1>available to that global audience, so that anyone that has

449
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.480
<v Speaker 1>a stable coin can ultimately acquire any of these assets

450
00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:14.240
<v Speaker 1>in the secondary market. So that is a pretty meaningful

451
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:20.359
<v Speaker 1>innovation in and of itself. These things are permissionless bear asset, right,

452
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:23.000
<v Speaker 1>so in the secondary market they can flow wherever. It's

453
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:25.599
<v Speaker 1>very similar to a stable coin tablecoin. You can send

454
00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:28.680
<v Speaker 1>wherever you want to. If you engage in a peer

455
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:30.759
<v Speaker 1>to peer transaction with a stable coin or if you

456
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.039
<v Speaker 1>use it in DeFi, there's no there's no regulators are

457
00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:36.039
<v Speaker 1>going to tell you, hey, you can't do that, right,

458
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:41.079
<v Speaker 1>But if there is a called it essentialized platform that

459
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:45.680
<v Speaker 1>decides to market these assets in a specific jurisdiction, and

460
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, has billboards in a country that says by

461
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.440
<v Speaker 1>token is stocks. Now that probably means a license. So

462
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.039
<v Speaker 1>it kind of all depends on how it's implemented. But fundamentally,

463
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.880
<v Speaker 1>our platform is set up in such a way that

464
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.039
<v Speaker 1>these assets are are available to a global audience. Anyone

465
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:03.880
<v Speaker 1>with a stable coin can find their way.

466
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:06.519
<v Speaker 2>Going back to what we were talking about earlier with

467
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.559
<v Speaker 2>network effects, is this going to change markets forever? And

468
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:13.480
<v Speaker 2>even private equity markets? You know, let's say the SEC

469
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:17.680
<v Speaker 2>opens up accreditation and private companies can you know, get

470
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:19.799
<v Speaker 2>their equity out there in a tokenized format. Plus you

471
00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:22.319
<v Speaker 2>have the token ied equities and stocks and so forth

472
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.880
<v Speaker 2>that now you have liquidity coming in from around the globe,

473
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:28.839
<v Speaker 2>which once again we've never.

474
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:31.319
<v Speaker 1>Had that before. Yeah, I never had it before. It's

475
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:34.720
<v Speaker 1>a great question. I'm not sure how exactly it's all

476
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:37.319
<v Speaker 1>going to play out. If I'm being honest, it'll probably

477
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:40.599
<v Speaker 1>take some time. But if we talked a little bit

478
00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:42.960
<v Speaker 1>about you know, education and it just takes time for

479
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:44.880
<v Speaker 1>people to appreciate what this stuff is, I think the

480
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:46.680
<v Speaker 1>same thing is going to play out with token is

481
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.799
<v Speaker 1>stocks because the number one question we still get is

482
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.440
<v Speaker 1>why are you tokenizing stocks? Right, Like, why why not

483
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:55.079
<v Speaker 1>like real estate Because most people when they think of tokenization,

484
00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:58.160
<v Speaker 1>they think of real estate and other types of asset classes.

485
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>We've always believed that makes most sense to tokenite those

486
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:05.759
<v Speaker 1>assets that people globally already want and that you can

487
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:09.240
<v Speaker 1>use as collateral on chain, because that's ultimately you know,

488
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.039
<v Speaker 1>the two benefits of tokenizing an acid is you can

489
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:14.720
<v Speaker 1>open it up to anyone globally because now it lives

490
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:16.559
<v Speaker 1>on blockchain reels and it can move twenty four seven.

491
00:26:16.759 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 1>And number two is you can use it in smart contracts.

492
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:23.440
<v Speaker 1>Most of the smart contracts on chain leverage some acid

493
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:26.279
<v Speaker 1>in some form of collateral, whether that's for staking, for

494
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.960
<v Speaker 1>margin purposes and the like. So for both of those reasons,

495
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:34.599
<v Speaker 1>you typically need an asset that has very good pricing transparency, right,

496
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Like what is an asset worth? People want to be

497
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:39.200
<v Speaker 1>want to know that whatever it is they're buying is

498
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:42.240
<v Speaker 1>they're buying and at the right price. And that's really

499
00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:45.680
<v Speaker 1>hard to do with assets like real estate like pe,

500
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:49.079
<v Speaker 1>where there's a lot of information asymmetry. But when you

501
00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:53.640
<v Speaker 1>do that for dox ETF treasury acids, there are incredibly

502
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:56.599
<v Speaker 1>liquid markets out there in trap FI already where pricing

503
00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:59.839
<v Speaker 1>discovery occurs. So once you put these things on chain,

504
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.200
<v Speaker 1>actually pretty straightforward to figure out what these things should

505
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:05.559
<v Speaker 1>be worth. So that's kind of why we put stocks

506
00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:09.839
<v Speaker 1>and ETFs on chain in the first place, because people

507
00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:13.440
<v Speaker 1>feel very comfortable buying them. So if you get all

508
00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:18.400
<v Speaker 1>of a sudden an avenue and a technology that hundreds

509
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.519
<v Speaker 1>of millions of people are now going to be able

510
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:24.720
<v Speaker 1>to buy these things almost frictionless, I think there's real

511
00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:27.480
<v Speaker 1>potential for that to change market structure down the line.

512
00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:31.240
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of very similar to how even the US

513
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Secretary of the Treasury now it's saying, hey, you know,

514
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:38.680
<v Speaker 1>stable coins, we expected to create meaningful demand for US

515
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:42.240
<v Speaker 1>treasuries globally over the next five to ten years. I

516
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.279
<v Speaker 1>think at some point people will say the same thing,

517
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.200
<v Speaker 1>but you know about increasing demand for US capital markets globally.

518
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:51.160
<v Speaker 1>But how long is that process going to take? I

519
00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:53.480
<v Speaker 1>don't know, but it could be very meaningful.

520
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. And then you know you mentioned the DeFi components,

521
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.240
<v Speaker 2>so I can not just hold the asset, but I

522
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:02.400
<v Speaker 2>can put it to work to help me earn additional

523
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:04.480
<v Speaker 2>income and yield and so forth.

524
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:06.799
<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent, And this is where trat FI gets

525
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:11.599
<v Speaker 1>very excited about tokenization because once it lives on crypto rails,

526
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:15.079
<v Speaker 1>you can tap into new sources of yield that historically

527
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:19.440
<v Speaker 1>we're not really available, essentially because you disintermediate a lot

528
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.160
<v Speaker 1>of people from the process that you would normally do,

529
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:27.039
<v Speaker 1>get them take a margin loan, right, and as a result,

530
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:30.880
<v Speaker 1>ultimately these processes become more efficient. So there's a higher

531
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.240
<v Speaker 1>yield to be earned, and there's new sources of yield

532
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.039
<v Speaker 1>that you could tap into, particularly if you enable it

533
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:39.759
<v Speaker 1>for these crypton native primitives like staking. So that's where

534
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:42.799
<v Speaker 1>the trap files really get very excited about how all

535
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:45.920
<v Speaker 1>of this could evolve. I think again, it's going to

536
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:48.559
<v Speaker 1>take a little bit of time for all of that

537
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:51.279
<v Speaker 1>to play out because right now, I mean, we're very

538
00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:53.640
<v Speaker 1>excited to put these stocks and ETFs on chang, But

539
00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:56.200
<v Speaker 1>I think the reality is that DeFi isn't really built

540
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.920
<v Speaker 1>with stocks and ETFs in mind. Like this simple scale

541
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.960
<v Speaker 1>that these things operate at. I don't think DeFi was

542
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:09.079
<v Speaker 1>particularly well designed for. So take your brokerage account, right,

543
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:13.599
<v Speaker 1>I have a brokerage account. I've got two actually, and

544
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:16.839
<v Speaker 1>I can buy let's say one thousand or so assets,

545
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:19.799
<v Speaker 1>maybe even more in them and then I just hit

546
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:22.160
<v Speaker 1>a button if I ever want to get a margin loan,

547
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:25.960
<v Speaker 1>and it just happens automatically, no gas fees paid, Like

548
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.119
<v Speaker 1>there's no problem. They can look at the thousand assets

549
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:29.839
<v Speaker 1>that I hold and I can get margin on all

550
00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:35.519
<v Speaker 1>of them. So to speak. That's not really how defis built, right.

551
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:37.640
<v Speaker 1>If I have a thousand different stocks in ETFs and

552
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:39.240
<v Speaker 1>I want to get margin on it, I can't just

553
00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:42.559
<v Speaker 1>hit a button with no gas fees and then get

554
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.880
<v Speaker 1>a margin loan twenty four to seven on my holdings.

555
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:47.960
<v Speaker 1>I think there's going to be some changes that are

556
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.160
<v Speaker 1>required in the DeFi ecosystem to really work with the

557
00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:54.599
<v Speaker 1>scale of stocks and ETFs, But I have no doubt

558
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:58.000
<v Speaker 1>that a very eager developer ecosystem is going to adapt

559
00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:01.039
<v Speaker 1>to that pretty quickly. Now that these things are actually

560
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:04.839
<v Speaker 1>on chain at the right price, with deep liquidity, with

561
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:07.000
<v Speaker 1>the right structure, I think it is actually going to

562
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:10.799
<v Speaker 1>be very exciting to see how the DeFi ecosystem evolved. Yeah.

563
00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, And you know, as you're saying that that it

564
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:17.880
<v Speaker 2>will take time. I'm envisioning twenty years from now potentially,

565
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:22.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, after institutions have set up the infrastructure you know,

566
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.599
<v Speaker 2>folks like yourself and onto have set up the infrastructure.

567
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:26.880
<v Speaker 1>It's very easy.

568
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:30.039
<v Speaker 2>I could take a rare baseball card, a Mickey Mantle

569
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:32.720
<v Speaker 2>rookie card, or a rare comic book or an old

570
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Ferrari that's worth a lot of money, take it to

571
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:39.319
<v Speaker 2>a proper institution like ontore, whatever it may be. You

572
00:30:39.559 --> 00:30:42.440
<v Speaker 2>go through the whole process. You're holding the asset, it's

573
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:46.319
<v Speaker 2>verified on the blockchain, and I can put that asset.

574
00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:49.440
<v Speaker 1>To work ultimately down the line, if you really go

575
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:51.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty years down the line. Sure, I think all of

576
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.000
<v Speaker 1>that is going to be possible for some of the

577
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:56.279
<v Speaker 1>assets that you highlighted. I think is really going to

578
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:59.559
<v Speaker 1>be how much is that thing worth? And pricing it

579
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.720
<v Speaker 1>right in a way that even a DeFi protocol or

580
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:08.119
<v Speaker 1>an oracle could get comfortable with. But there's nothing like

581
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:11.200
<v Speaker 1>the process of tokenization in and of itself even today

582
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:14.119
<v Speaker 1>is actually pretty straightforward, right. All you got to do

583
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.480
<v Speaker 1>is take a traditional asset, put it in a custody account,

584
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.240
<v Speaker 1>whether that's a bank account or a clearing broker account

585
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.240
<v Speaker 1>or whatever the appropriate custody account is, make sure that

586
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:28.319
<v Speaker 1>you immobilize it, you issue a token against it, and tada, right,

587
00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:32.960
<v Speaker 1>you've tokenized the asset. That's actually pretty straightforward. The hard part,

588
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:37.839
<v Speaker 1>oftentimes is doing the pricing of that asset on a

589
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:43.160
<v Speaker 1>real time basis and doing the subscription and redemption between

590
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:46.880
<v Speaker 1>the traditional world in the unchained world, in the twenty

591
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:49.200
<v Speaker 1>four seven manner, because a lot of these trap fi

592
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.119
<v Speaker 1>systems that you need to tap into to acquire an

593
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.240
<v Speaker 1>asset or sell an asset, they don't work twenty four

594
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.880
<v Speaker 1>to seven, whereas the crypto ecosystem does. So that liquidity mismatch.

595
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:04.200
<v Speaker 1>How you bridge that? That's the really hard part. Yeah,

596
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:04.880
<v Speaker 1>that makes sense.

597
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:06.839
<v Speaker 2>And setting up, yeah, setting up the market for it

598
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:08.519
<v Speaker 2>and so forth, and there has to be demand for

599
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:10.599
<v Speaker 2>the asset, of course. You know you mentioned twenty four

600
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:13.440
<v Speaker 2>to seven markets. Clearly that's the direction the puck is

601
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.559
<v Speaker 2>heading in. I see these stock exchanges, you know, exploring

602
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:19.880
<v Speaker 2>ways to open longer, and it's so fascinating to see

603
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:22.640
<v Speaker 2>them get you know, getting disrupted in a way and

604
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.599
<v Speaker 2>they're trying to catch up and so forth. Do you

605
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:28.079
<v Speaker 2>think by twenty thirty we're going to have full twenty

606
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.319
<v Speaker 2>twenty four to seven three hundred and sixty five day markets?

607
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Probably? To be honest, I think, you know, Nastak already announced.

608
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.039
<v Speaker 1>I think they're going to go for six days a

609
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:42.480
<v Speaker 1>week starting next year. And I think it's just really

610
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:47.440
<v Speaker 1>clear that there is ultimately retail appetite to trade twenty

611
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:50.079
<v Speaker 1>four to seven. And right now you're you're in a

612
00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:53.839
<v Speaker 1>situation where crypto markets are operating twenty four seven, people

613
00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:56.200
<v Speaker 1>wipe to trade the you know mean coins over the weekend,

614
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:58.119
<v Speaker 1>bit point of the weekend, whatever it is they want

615
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:00.400
<v Speaker 1>to do over the weekend. And then you look at

616
00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:04.079
<v Speaker 1>the traditional financial markets, which are far larger in size

617
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:10.200
<v Speaker 1>still but they don't. It's a very weird, weird dichotomy.

618
00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:15.759
<v Speaker 1>So I think you'll see that the traditional exchanges see

619
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:19.920
<v Speaker 1>some pressure to move towards twenty four seven, increasingly, particularly

620
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.759
<v Speaker 1>once the stocks and ETFs are now moving on these

621
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:27.079
<v Speaker 1>blockchain rails that can move twenty four to seven. I

622
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.799
<v Speaker 1>think there's a real chance that the crypto ecosystem moves

623
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:35.039
<v Speaker 1>towards twenty four seven trading of these assets already even

624
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:38.480
<v Speaker 1>before the traditional brokerage accounts to And then over the

625
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.039
<v Speaker 1>next five years you start seeing those traditional financial systems

626
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:45.480
<v Speaker 1>actually catch up and upgrade so that they can support

627
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:46.839
<v Speaker 1>twenty first seven as well.

628
00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great point, because many of the crypto exchanges out

629
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:52.079
<v Speaker 2>there are launching token is stocks and it will trade

630
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:54.759
<v Speaker 2>just like crypto assets twenty four to seven, that's right.

631
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.440
<v Speaker 2>And then obviously with a twenty four to seven market,

632
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:01.359
<v Speaker 2>no nights in we and all these things and opening

633
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:04.839
<v Speaker 2>a closing bell, are we going to drive ourselves ourselves?

634
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to be up three am a bank of

635
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:11.039
<v Speaker 2>those or we have AI agents doing mm.

636
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a great question. I'm very curious to see

637
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:17.159
<v Speaker 1>how all of that is going to evolve. I mean

638
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:20.960
<v Speaker 1>that a proponent would just say we're giving investors more

639
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:25.679
<v Speaker 1>choice on when to trade, right. But yeah, it's funny

640
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:28.199
<v Speaker 1>whenever I talk to someone in TRADFI or even in fintech,

641
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:30.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, one of the number one questions that typically

642
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:32.719
<v Speaker 1>get is like, but it's twenty four to seven? How

643
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:34.880
<v Speaker 1>do you even deal with that? Right? How do you

644
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.000
<v Speaker 1>ever relax? And I mean it takes a little bit

645
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.000
<v Speaker 1>of getting used to, but over time, it is what

646
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:43.360
<v Speaker 1>it is. And I think with traditional financial markets it's

647
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:45.639
<v Speaker 1>kind of going to be the same thing, but it

648
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:49.079
<v Speaker 1>does require very big changes in how a lot of

649
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:52.719
<v Speaker 1>these traditional financial firms operate that are not to be underestimated.

650
00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:55.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think humans we find our way. Sometimes

651
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:59.199
<v Speaker 2>we get sucked into a trend or technology. It disrupts

652
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:01.760
<v Speaker 2>our lives and then people start saying complaining, Oh, this

653
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:03.599
<v Speaker 2>is so bad, but then we figure it out and

654
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:06.039
<v Speaker 2>our collective knowledge improves. I think we're going through that

655
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.480
<v Speaker 2>with social media, right, and the collective knowledge would be like, Okay,

656
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:11.639
<v Speaker 2>you got to get balance back in our lives with

657
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:14.440
<v Speaker 2>our devices and so forth, so we'll figure it out.

658
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:18.039
<v Speaker 1>Hund of present and you've seen that in like I

659
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:20.679
<v Speaker 1>don't know, there's lots of books about that too, right,

660
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Like when the printing press occurred was invented, there was

661
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:29.199
<v Speaker 1>a mass revolution almost in the access to information, which

662
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.199
<v Speaker 1>ultimately unfortunately led to the religious wars. But it's a

663
00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:34.599
<v Speaker 1>good example of like how you had a shot to

664
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:38.320
<v Speaker 1>the system, It took some time to recalibrate, and ultimately people,

665
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:41.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, the system finds balance again. I think we're

666
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.280
<v Speaker 1>seeing a lot of that, but at a very accelerated

667
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.440
<v Speaker 1>pace with the Internet, social media and now twenty four

668
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:49.719
<v Speaker 1>seven networks and pretty soon Aya. Yeah, absolutely.

669
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:51.639
<v Speaker 2>I want to talk a bit about some of the

670
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:55.400
<v Speaker 2>adoption news that I read for ONDO, like connects us

671
00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:58.400
<v Speaker 2>by JP Morgan using the Onto blockchain. Tell us a

672
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>bit about that and maybe some other example of institutions

673
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:01.599
<v Speaker 2>using Onto.

674
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this one kind of fits into the whole.

675
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:11.239
<v Speaker 1>How do I connect the on chain environment which happens

676
00:36:11.239 --> 00:36:15.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty four seven to a tradi fy environment that normally

677
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:18.280
<v Speaker 1>does not operate twenty four seven. Now, luckily, JP Morgan

678
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.880
<v Speaker 1>has been ahead of the curve and realized a long

679
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:23.840
<v Speaker 1>time ago that they need to have a system that

680
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:28.000
<v Speaker 1>can operate twenty four seven, that is interoperable with public blockchains,

681
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:30.800
<v Speaker 1>so that you know, if someone wants to move their

682
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:34.119
<v Speaker 1>cash sitting in a JP Morgan account around, they can

683
00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:36.920
<v Speaker 1>do that twenty four to seven. And that's essentially what

684
00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:40.360
<v Speaker 1>the Connectionus platform is. It's a private ethereum blockchain that

685
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:44.159
<v Speaker 1>they've implemented years and years ago that can operate twenty

686
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:47.280
<v Speaker 1>four seven and where JP Morgan deposits can move around

687
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:53.480
<v Speaker 1>between their clients. We then had a collaboration with JP

688
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:56.519
<v Speaker 1>Morgan and chain Link as well, where Channeling provided the

689
00:36:56.599 --> 00:37:00.840
<v Speaker 1>infrastructure to connect the Connectsus platform twenty four to seven

690
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.440
<v Speaker 1>JP Morgan platform through the Onto chain, where a lot

691
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.800
<v Speaker 1>of the real world assets live and where you can

692
00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:10.840
<v Speaker 1>have an ecosystem of trading that can happen twenty four

693
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:14.400
<v Speaker 1>to seven, but like that connection between the two is

694
00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:18.199
<v Speaker 1>what really needed to get built. So we partnered up

695
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:21.360
<v Speaker 1>with JP Morgan and Chaining to make that happen so

696
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:25.960
<v Speaker 1>that a transaction could occur where two investors that had

697
00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:28.599
<v Speaker 1>an account at ONTO and had an account at JPM

698
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:33.320
<v Speaker 1>Morgan could transfer between themselves a tokenized treasury fund on

699
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:37.679
<v Speaker 1>the atochain, yet settle that transaction on the JP Morgan

700
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:40.960
<v Speaker 1>network with cash. So that was the pilot that we did,

701
00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:43.519
<v Speaker 1>and the first time truly that you would have a

702
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:47.760
<v Speaker 1>public blockchain designed for RWAs really engage with the traditional

703
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:50.599
<v Speaker 1>banking environment that could operate twenty four to seven. And

704
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:54.519
<v Speaker 1>it's all about that connectivity between the on chain environment

705
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:58.480
<v Speaker 1>and the trad fi environment because as mentioned previously, tokenizing

706
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:01.159
<v Speaker 1>something's pretty easy. Got to learn how to deal with

707
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:04.639
<v Speaker 1>the liquidity mismatch, and these types of pilots really help

708
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.599
<v Speaker 1>tackle that liquidity mismatch that normally exists between trat fi

709
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:10.039
<v Speaker 1>and the blockchain world.

710
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:14.079
<v Speaker 2>That's pretty profound because it seems like the direction we're

711
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:16.639
<v Speaker 2>heading in is that to your point, building those bridges

712
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:19.280
<v Speaker 2>because some of these institutions like banks, they need their

713
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:22.320
<v Speaker 2>private blockchain networks internally to do to their things, which

714
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:25.480
<v Speaker 2>is fine, but they need to bridge their real world,

715
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:26.559
<v Speaker 2>and you're helping.

716
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:28.679
<v Speaker 1>To do that one hundred percent. There's a lot of

717
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.400
<v Speaker 1>debate typically and a lot of skepticisms towards private blockchains,

718
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:36.280
<v Speaker 1>which are very healthy. But I think it's because a

719
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:38.519
<v Speaker 1>lot of people look at a private blockchain say, well,

720
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:41.039
<v Speaker 1>you can't ever have DeFi on it, It's never really

721
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:43.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be a real blockchain, And that's true, but

722
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:48.119
<v Speaker 1>a private blockchain historically has been very helpful for a

723
00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:51.199
<v Speaker 1>trat file to just upgrade their internal system so that

724
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:54.719
<v Speaker 1>they can work twenty four seven right. For that purpose,

725
00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:57.960
<v Speaker 1>a private blockchain, it's great. Like we as an asset

726
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.800
<v Speaker 1>is sure. As a tokenization company, I love it when

727
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:04.039
<v Speaker 1>a trast fly has a private blockchain network because then

728
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:05.760
<v Speaker 1>I know their systems, or at least some of their

729
00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:08.239
<v Speaker 1>systems can operate twenty four to seven, and that makes

730
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:11.719
<v Speaker 1>our lives significantly easier to tokenize an asset on a

731
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:15.800
<v Speaker 1>real public blockchain, which can then be integrated into DeFi tell.

732
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Us a bit about the bridge and the settlement and

733
00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:21.199
<v Speaker 2>the communication. Is it like atomic settlement, Like how fast

734
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:21.880
<v Speaker 2>is that happening?

735
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:27.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so not all block these chains aren't necessarily fully synchronized, right,

736
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:29.840
<v Speaker 1>So I think in the case of the JP Morgan pilot,

737
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:33.599
<v Speaker 1>all of this happened I believe, in thirty seconds, So

738
00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:37.679
<v Speaker 1>it's not exactly atomic, but it's pretty close. And like

739
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:40.719
<v Speaker 1>thirty seconds. For a crypto person, they're like, wow, you

740
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:45.559
<v Speaker 1>know on in one second, but for a trap fi

741
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:51.920
<v Speaker 1>that is like unbelievably. They're used to tepless one of

742
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:55.840
<v Speaker 1>two settlements. So JP Morgan was very very happy with

743
00:39:55.880 --> 00:39:56.360
<v Speaker 1>that result.

744
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, absolutely to your point, we as cryptoph I said,

745
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:03.000
<v Speaker 2>you get it right away. But that absolutely makes sense

746
00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:05.840
<v Speaker 2>that these trat FI institutions, that's night and day for them.

747
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.360
<v Speaker 2>And I'm sure as with further iteration and fight tuning,

748
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:11.760
<v Speaker 2>it's going to get down to five seconds, two seconds

749
00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:16.000
<v Speaker 2>for sure. That's amazing, really great stuff. There was also

750
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the Onto Finance MasterCard partnership recently or tell us a

751
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:20.880
<v Speaker 2>bit about that.

752
00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:25.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's very similar actually in its intent. So we

753
00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:29.360
<v Speaker 1>partner it up with with MasterCard to be integrated into

754
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:32.880
<v Speaker 1>the MasterCard Multi Tooken network. That one is essentially a

755
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:36.719
<v Speaker 1>network that can where banks can plug into and connect

756
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:39.280
<v Speaker 1>it into their own internal systems so that they can

757
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:42.039
<v Speaker 1>move deposits twenty four to seven. So again very similar

758
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:45.920
<v Speaker 1>to the Connections platform, but this one it's across various banks. Again,

759
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.199
<v Speaker 1>the whole purpose of these pilots and agreements and partnerships

760
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Speaker 1>is that we can connect into track fire rails that

761
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:55.440
<v Speaker 1>can operate twenty four to seven, so that when the

762
00:40:55.519 --> 00:40:59.039
<v Speaker 1>trad Fi client wants to subscribe to our tokenized treasury

763
00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:02.159
<v Speaker 1>assets that live on public blockchains, they can actually do

764
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:05.000
<v Speaker 1>so with cash in their bank account instead of a

765
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:08.000
<v Speaker 1>stable coin on chain and really pay us twenty four

766
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.440
<v Speaker 1>to seven subscribe to our products twenty four to seven

767
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:13.920
<v Speaker 1>with the trad five rails like that is a pretty

768
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:17.880
<v Speaker 1>meaningful innovation because there's a lot of institutions out there that,

769
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:21.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, if possible, they'd like to keep at least

770
00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:24.199
<v Speaker 1>some cash where they've kept it for years and years

771
00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:27.079
<v Speaker 1>and years, yet they still want to subscribe, you know,

772
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:29.400
<v Speaker 1>to our assets and mint them on public blockchains to

773
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:31.639
<v Speaker 1>do a wide variety of things with them. But the

774
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:35.480
<v Speaker 1>master Card Multi Tooken network kind of enables these particular

775
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:39.079
<v Speaker 1>institutional clients to stay on their trad Fi rails. It

776
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:40.880
<v Speaker 1>still have them operate twenty four seven.

777
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Amazing. It's a brave new world.

778
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:47.039
<v Speaker 1>Man. It is so fast. It's still happening quite fast.

779
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:49.920
<v Speaker 1>To be honest, I mean a lot of crypto people

780
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I think are impatient, rightfully so, because the pace of

781
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:56.559
<v Speaker 1>innovation in crypto is incredibly fast and furious. But at

782
00:41:56.679 --> 00:41:59.079
<v Speaker 1>least the trad five standards, all this stuff is happening

783
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:02.880
<v Speaker 1>way faster than these guys are used to. And now

784
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.480
<v Speaker 1>with the tokenization of stock and ETFs and making that

785
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.719
<v Speaker 1>available to a global audience, like all of the building

786
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:13.199
<v Speaker 1>blocks right now are there were really meaningful innovation and

787
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:17.320
<v Speaker 1>how capital markets operate and how payments operates, obviously with

788
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:20.320
<v Speaker 1>stable coin, right so, it's going to be very very

789
00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:22.559
<v Speaker 1>interesting to see how the next five years.

790
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:26.079
<v Speaker 2>We're speaking of the next five years and stable coins.

791
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:29.920
<v Speaker 2>The Genius Act pass huge for the industry, Clarity Act

792
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:32.440
<v Speaker 2>coming up this fall. Do you anticipate we're going to

793
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:35.559
<v Speaker 2>see this massive innovation boom because the market has clarity.

794
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:37.400
<v Speaker 2>No one has to look over their shoulder anymore.

795
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:40.599
<v Speaker 1>Oh, for sure. It's night and day for an institution

796
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:45.519
<v Speaker 1>right now. Because with a Genius Bill passing, everyone kind

797
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:48.039
<v Speaker 1>of looks at that and says, wait a minute, this

798
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Congress can actually get stuff passed, and digital ASTs is

799
00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:54.719
<v Speaker 1>important enough to do it. I do think that the

800
00:42:56.199 --> 00:42:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Clarity Act may be more impactful than the Genius Act

801
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:02.480
<v Speaker 1>quite frankly from a market structure perspective and what draft

802
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:06.000
<v Speaker 1>files are going to be able to do. But it's

803
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:08.960
<v Speaker 1>clear that this Congress can actually pass bills, and it's

804
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.639
<v Speaker 1>clear that digital assets is the priority for the ADMIN.

805
00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:13.679
<v Speaker 1>And so with all of that in mind, all of

806
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:17.400
<v Speaker 1>these strat files truly are racing towards having a digital

807
00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:21.880
<v Speaker 1>asset strategy and starting to implement it. Because crypto is

808
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.840
<v Speaker 1>also starting to be at a scale where it's very

809
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:29.400
<v Speaker 1>very hard to ignore. Right you're confronted with this ecosystem

810
00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:33.480
<v Speaker 1>that keeps growing. Ta will coin TVL is now close

811
00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:37.360
<v Speaker 1>to what three hundred billion token I Treasury is starting

812
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:40.880
<v Speaker 1>to accelerate almost at ten billion. There's now stocks and

813
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:43.480
<v Speaker 1>ETFs coming on chain. So a lot of these strat

814
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.639
<v Speaker 1>fis look at that and say, hmm, interesting, I guess

815
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:49.840
<v Speaker 1>I can't ignore it. Historically they had the excuse, oh,

816
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:53.960
<v Speaker 1>there's no clarity, regulatory compliance and the like, but that's

817
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:58.159
<v Speaker 1>pretty soon going to drop so there's real, real appetite

818
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:02.280
<v Speaker 1>and interest to move on chain. So that's why you know,

819
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:05.960
<v Speaker 1>companies like Onto are very excited in helping these strat

820
00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:08.960
<v Speaker 1>fives move on chain because they often do need partners

821
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:12.000
<v Speaker 1>to do that. These strati files don't have the capabilities

822
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.039
<v Speaker 1>and skill set to do everything by themselves.

823
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:18.840
<v Speaker 2>I am so curious to see what innovations and things

824
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.760
<v Speaker 2>are built over the next five years. I know a

825
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:23.119
<v Speaker 2>lot of people are looking when number go up, right,

826
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:25.719
<v Speaker 2>but we try to get people like the number go

827
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:28.760
<v Speaker 2>up will follow the infrastruction, the building, and the adoption

828
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:31.679
<v Speaker 2>and building bringing billions of people on chain.

829
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:36.119
<v Speaker 1>For sure. I was I was talking recently with Joseph Shalom.

830
00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:38.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't think he's gonna mind me saying this because

831
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:41.119
<v Speaker 1>he said it on a Twitter spaces it was public already,

832
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:43.960
<v Speaker 1>but he made the point. So Joseph would used to

833
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:45.880
<v Speaker 1>be the head of digital Assets at Blackrock. He's now

834
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:48.679
<v Speaker 1>the CEO of as BED, and he make the point about,

835
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:53.159
<v Speaker 1>as you know, putting his former Black Blackrock pat on

836
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:57.239
<v Speaker 1>as an asset manager. All of a sudden, you have

837
00:44:57.400 --> 00:45:00.760
<v Speaker 1>assets now, stocks and the like that live on public

838
00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:06.360
<v Speaker 1>blockchain rails where permissionless innovation is possible that has never

839
00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:10.559
<v Speaker 1>ever happened before. Right as an asset manager, before you

840
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:14.320
<v Speaker 1>had to figure out how to design and structure products

841
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:18.320
<v Speaker 1>with these very old and clunky TRADFI rails. But now

842
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:21.320
<v Speaker 1>you've got all sorts of tick stacks that can operate

843
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.119
<v Speaker 1>twenty four to seven with a defied developer ecosystem of

844
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.719
<v Speaker 1>thousands that look at this stuff and say, hmm, what

845
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:31.719
<v Speaker 1>can I build? That's never happened before in the history

846
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:34.840
<v Speaker 1>of mankind. And so the level of innovation that you're

847
00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:38.199
<v Speaker 1>going to see what people are going to be able

848
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:41.920
<v Speaker 1>to do for what passive investing looks like if you

849
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.440
<v Speaker 1>then throw in AI as well, I think truly what

850
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:48.440
<v Speaker 1>investing is and what you can do is going to

851
00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:51.599
<v Speaker 1>change pretty dramatically over the next five years. It doesn't

852
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:54.440
<v Speaker 1>mean that mainstream adoption is going to arrive in the

853
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:58.360
<v Speaker 1>next five years, but a lot of interesting things will

854
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:01.400
<v Speaker 1>start to happen. And I think it's too meaningfully disrupt

855
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:05.880
<v Speaker 1>asset management, wealth management, brokerage, robo advisory, and just broader

856
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:09.920
<v Speaker 1>investing at a global scale in a way that has

857
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:10.800
<v Speaker 1>never happened before.

858
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:15.039
<v Speaker 2>It's exciting times, and we're gonna have to do our

859
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:20.000
<v Speaker 2>next interview in person. Man it joined the conversation a lot.

860
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.559
<v Speaker 2>I do have some wrap up questions here for you. First,

861
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:25.760
<v Speaker 2>if you could create your own metaverse, what would theme be?

862
00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Boy, I used to be a very big gamer,

863
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:32.039
<v Speaker 1>so I'd have to go with one of the like

864
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:37.159
<v Speaker 1>original Command and Conquer games or something go old school

865
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:38.920
<v Speaker 1>that would be. That would be fun.

866
00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Rapid fire questions.

867
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Favorite food. I'm Belgian, so I'd have to go with

868
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:47.760
<v Speaker 1>like most feats, favorite musician or band the Prodigy, favorite

869
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:52.119
<v Speaker 1>movie The Matrix, favorite book Atlas Shrugged. And when you're

870
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:53.880
<v Speaker 1>not working at ando, what are you doing for fun?

871
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:56.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh I've got a family, two young kids, so they

872
00:46:56.599 --> 00:47:00.639
<v Speaker 1>take a bullet all the time. I know how that is.

873
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:02.639
<v Speaker 2>I was a seven year old, so my our love,

874
00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:04.719
<v Speaker 2>my wife and our allies would revolve around her.

875
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:08.239
<v Speaker 1>So there you go. I love it, Ian great stuff.

876
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:09.519
<v Speaker 2>Like I said, We've got to do the next one

877
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:12.039
<v Speaker 2>in person. But I really appreciate your thoughts and uh

878
00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:13.639
<v Speaker 2>how this is a funny conversation.

879
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, love it. Thanks so much for

880
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:17.119
<v Speaker 1>having me ton been a pleasure.