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No, your estimated on your bill of twenty 20 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:04.519 six and twenty nine your new customer zone thirs percentis 21 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:06.920 Gento smash all day electricity unit rates in twenty nine 22 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:09.159 percent of gass unit rates and sea porcash energy. Detta 23 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:10.159 you for full teas and seas. 24 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:13.519 Oh hey, it's that bottle of mustard you don't even 25 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:17.200 remember buying, but you've moved with twice now Alli Ward, 26 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:20.959 Oh we're walking into spider webs for smologies. Here's the deal. 27 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:25.439 Smologies are shorter, edited to be kid friendly and classroom 28 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:28.159 safe versions of our original episodes. So if you're not 29 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:30.959 with kids, you can go ahead and have the full version. 30 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:32.719 It's linked in the show notes. But hey, if you're 31 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:35.400 looking for something shorter and less swarrier, you've come to 32 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:38.480 the right place. Okay, here we go spider webs. Okay, 33 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:40.879 I just want to say, if you're listening you're not 34 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:43.719 a huge fan of spiders, I want to tell you 35 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:47.040 that you're brave. I'm proud of you. And spoiler alert, 36 00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:50.239 this is not scary at all. We barely even talk 37 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:53.560 about spiders themselves, but rather we just kind of focus 38 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:56.480 on things that come out of their rears. So for 39 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.400 anyone in your life who's a spiderfobe, just gently maybe 40 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:02.760 send them this episode. Tell them it's a great way 41 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:06.879 to admire the critters, and there are very few goosebumps 42 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:09.280 in the road ahead. So one day we're going to 43 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:11.879 work up to arachnology. We're going to talk about the 44 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:14.919 animals themselves one day. But today is not that day, 45 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:19.759 my friends. So today we're just walking into spider webs. Okay, spidronology. 46 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:23.319 What in the dark, shadowy night is that. So unless 47 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:26.120 you are a spider doctor, you probably did not know 48 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:28.599 that there is a word for spider webs, and it's 49 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:33.159 spid droins. Well, spid drowins are the main proteins in 50 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:36.680 spider silk, and they're as strong as steel, but they're 51 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:40.719 more flexible and they're similar to collagen or carrotin. We're 52 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:42.759 going to get into it. So, yes, kiddos, this is 53 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:45.759 a whole episode unraveling the mysteries and looking into the 54 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.039 future of spider silk. What it is, how it works, 55 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:51.560 how it may change all of our lives. So stick 56 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:55.039 around to get a lifetime's worth of appreciation and context 57 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:57.639 about what a spider web is, what is made of, 58 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:01.520 how strong a single thread can be, how it's synthesized 59 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:07.280 and labs future medical uses. Some superhero flimplam, transgenic goats, 60 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:11.840 jeene splicing, and the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. 61 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:17.000 With Utah State Biology Professor and your new favorite spidronologist, 62 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:28.479 doctor Randy lewisgious algy. 63 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:37.360 Alogyng coolbeens. 64 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:39.960 So if you could tell me your first and last 65 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:44.400 name and how you pronounce it, Randy Lewis, Doctor Randy Lewis, 66 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:46.800 Doctor Randy Lewis, walk me through a little bit about 67 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.479 what is spider silk because I know enough about a 68 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.120 spider butt to know that different things comes out of 69 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.000 their silk glands. Yes, what's going on? 70 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:59.560 So the spiders that we work with make six different 71 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:01.599 kinds of silk in a gloom. They're the ones that 72 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:04.000 make the typical round web. It's called an orb web 73 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:08.000 that most people think about that spiders may okay. 74 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.919 Side note, if you're wondering what invisible force has captured 75 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:16.759 your face, what gossamer thready creation has veiled you at night, 76 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:20.319 those are likely the work of orb weaver spiders. They 77 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.879 are architects and artisans. They are craft spiders. Their talent 78 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:30.319 is innate, and their spiral spider webs are just iconic. Now, 79 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:34.519 Some like the Nephela golden orb weavers spin this brilliant 80 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:39.600 yellow silk. It just glimmers. It's like threads of gold. 81 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:43.240 So what's up with cobwebs. Well, spider web tends to 82 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:47.480 mean one that is still inhabited, and cobwebs refer to old, 83 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.360 abandoned ones, so once they get dusty, they tend to 84 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:53.680 lose their tack. But a cobweb is also a type 85 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:56.959 of web, one that's less of a two planed spiral 86 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.839 net more of a three dimensional maze. We'll get into that. 87 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:03.040 And they use the silks for very different purposes and 88 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:06.720 they have very different mechanical properties, so you know, evolutionarily, 89 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:10.639 you sort of have a lot of evolutionary tinkering that 90 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:13.240 went on before we ever got to take a look 91 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:15.920 at it. So basically, in most of the glands, there's 92 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:18.600 a couple of them that they don't produce silk all 93 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:21.120 the time, but generally they produce silk, put it in 94 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:24.240 a gland. They have it in a form that's still 95 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.800 not completely identified, but we think they're sort of very 96 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:31.720 small little balls of protein that are present in there. 97 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:34.639 Then when they pull the silk out, so they pull 98 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.480 it out like flaws. They don't squeeze it out like toothpaste. Okay, 99 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:39.319 so all of the silks have to be pulled out. 100 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:42.360 And when they pull that the silk at the very 101 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:45.600 end of a tube going down from the gland that 102 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.120 they make it to the outside, all the silk then 103 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:50.879 behind it starts to get pulled out because it's very viscous. 104 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.040 On the trip down that tube, the sheer forces cause 105 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:57.959 the protein molecules to basically line up. Like you can 106 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.680 imagine if you were to take spaghetti start getting it 107 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:03.199 down through a funnel. All the spaghetti has to line 108 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:05.839 up where it doesn't go down. Now I'm hungry, So 109 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.839 that's what's happening in this trip down there. When they 110 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:13.720 do that, they actually protein molecules lock together and become insoluble, 111 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.560 and that's how the fiber forms. Amazingly enough, it can 112 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:19.079 happen in as little as ten milliseconds. So if you 113 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:23.839 see a spider fall, that silk is solidifying in milliseconds 114 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:25.600 as it comes out of the spider. 115 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:29.079 And do they use a combination of their spinnerets or 116 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:32.079 their legs or gravity what gives it that force? All 117 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:32.680 of the above. 118 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:35.319 So they can't squeeze it out, so they either have 119 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:37.120 to pull it out with their leg. The other thing 120 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.480 they can do is attach it to something and walk 121 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:42.279 away from it. Okay, So the silk that most people 122 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:45.560 are interested in called dragline silk, and it's dragline because 123 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.279 when they walk away, they drag it behind them. 124 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:48.600 Ok So, if you. 125 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.120 See a spider crawling across the ceiling, for instance, if 126 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:53.040 you watch it, it'll crawl for a little ways and 127 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:55.800 then it'll start wiggling its butt. We can't stop talking 128 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:58.439 about it when it does that. It's using another silk 129 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:02.160 to attach the major silk to some kind of a 130 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:05.720 protrusion on the wall. So just like a climber. You know, 131 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:07.639 if a climber climbs so far that they put a 132 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:10.160 piton or a hook or something in there, it's exactly 133 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:12.319 what spiders have been doing for four hundred million years. 134 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:14.560 So so rock climbers are a little behind on the 135 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:19.439 And in addition, they can stick the silk to almost anything. 136 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:22.600 Now they have trouble with something like teflon, but they 137 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:25.959 can stick it to glass wonderfully. So you know, you 138 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.800 put them in a glass aquarium, for instance, or a 139 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:31.040 plexiglass aquarium, and you can see the little attachments where 140 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:34.399 they put all the silk down. That is how they 141 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:36.079 produce the silk and have to pull it out. 142 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:38.079 And what are some other types of silk because you 143 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.279 said six, okay, so real quick. They've got major ambulate 144 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:45.120 or dragline silk, one that is just super strong. It's 145 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:48.279 as strong as steel, but it's tougher and it acts 146 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:52.959 as those webs spokes and the non sticky outer rim. 147 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:56.800 And then there's minor ampulate, which is temporary kind of 148 00:07:56.839 --> 00:07:59.360 like a sketch while they're building the web. Then they 149 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:03.560 have flulagem sticky silk for the inside spiral of the web, 150 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.240 that little bullseye super sticky. And then to biliform silk 151 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:12.360 is stiff eggsac business. There's acidiform, which is the saran 152 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:15.720 wrappie sheet that they mummy their prey with. It's two 153 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:19.160 to three times as strong as that first dragline silk. 154 00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:23.240 And then there's also aggregate, which is hardcore glue silk. 155 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:27.199 And they're produced by four to six hairy nubbins on 156 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:31.240 their undercarriage called spinnerets, and those each have a bunch 157 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:34.440 of nozzles kind of like froyo dispensers, and then they're 158 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:38.519 stretched out and it's extruded from the glands, from the spinnerets. 159 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:41.519 Does it look like a glove slowly waving at you, 160 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:44.919 palpating some goo. Yes, it does. But let's get back 161 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:49.000 to the silk itself. And how different from a molecular 162 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:51.799 structure are these six different types of silk. 163 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:55.320 So all of them have what I call a lego sequence. 164 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:58.720 So those are sequences that naturally when they make a 165 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:02.480 fiber inner digit tape. So they literally have holes and 166 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:03.879 pins just like legos do. 167 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:05.639 So most of. 168 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:08.720 The silks have some form of lego. Now it turns 169 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:10.799 out some of them have longer pins, some of them 170 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:14.000 have bigger holes, some of them have you know, some variations, 171 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.360 but all of them have something that allows them to 172 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:19.759 stick together to make a fiber. Then the ones that 173 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:24.759 have stretch have in there something looks like a slinky, 174 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:28.919 you know, at a nanoscale. And so when it stretches 175 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:31.879 and you let go, it retracts. The difference is that 176 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.200 it doesn't retract as fast as you stretched it. So 177 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:39.080 in that retraction that loses heat and so it keeps 178 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.000 from basically serving as a trampoline. 179 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:45.360 And how are the spiders determining Okay, I know I 180 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:48.639 need a dragline here to make the framework of my net. 181 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:49.919 I know I need somethings to keep. 182 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:53.519 It's all genetically programmed. It's absolutely clear. I mean, they 183 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:55.960 have no brain in the sense of being able to 184 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:58.639 make that decision. And so you know, in some cases 185 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.960 we can collect the silks from the spider directly, but 186 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:05.240 most of the time it's difficult. For instance, they know 187 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:08.080 that they want to use the prey wrapping silk when 188 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:10.440 they have prey. So it turns out if you can 189 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:15.919 find just the right frequency on the spider, then they'll 190 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.679 believe that they have something to wrap and now I'll start 191 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:21.600 putting that silk out so you can catch that. But 192 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:25.440 most of them are almost impossible to collect because you 193 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:27.279 can't provide the right stimulus. 194 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:30.480 It's true a web can act like a harp, and 195 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:34.200 spiders here with tiny slits in their feet totally normal 196 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:37.360 and threw little hairs all over their body. So with 197 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.240 this markes board of silks, some have to be stronger 198 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.080 and cooler than others, right like, some have to be better. 199 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:47.559 And now, which spider has the best silk? 200 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:51.960 You know, I think that's a tough question. There is 201 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:55.440 a mark spider from South America that is argued to 202 00:10:55.639 --> 00:11:00.639 have the strongest silk. Now, it's strongest in the combination 203 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:05.320 of stretch and strength because it stretches lots more than 204 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:09.440 most spider silks do, not because it's necessarily strong. The 205 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:13.080 variations in the silk, even with an individual spider are 206 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:15.720 fairly large because they don't do a good job of 207 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:19.240 controlling the diameter. Really, and whenever you measure strength, you 208 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:23.000 measure it based on cross sectional area. So obviously if 209 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.759 something's fatter, then it's going to be stronger than something 210 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:26.399 that's thinner. 211 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:29.240 Just side note, think of a braid versus a hare, 212 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:32.720 or a rope versus a thread, or one string of 213 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:36.600 the cheese versus the whole string cheese. I'm so hungry. 214 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:39.720 So you know, when you say which spider has the best, 215 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:41.879 I think it's which silk is the best, And that's 216 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.840 clearly dragline. It's got the best combination of strength and 217 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:50.120 elasticity to give you the you know, that unique combination 218 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:52.919 that no man made material can beat. 219 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.440 Is dragline silk. The one where you're walking into the 220 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:59.559 backyard at night and you get a web on your 221 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:01.879 face and you feel like you're going to die. 222 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:04.799 Well, I don't know about the last part of that steamum, 223 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:08.159 but certainly it's actually the combination of all of them, 224 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:10.840 because the web has four different silks in it, Okay, 225 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.360 so it has major miner, it has the glue, and 226 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:17.399 it has the crapture spilled. So when you hit that, yeah, 227 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:20.000 I think it's probably more the fact that it adheres 228 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:23.440 to your face because of the glue. It also stretches 229 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.080 enough so you know you can sort of feel that 230 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:27.679 your face is going into it. When it finally breaks, 231 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:30.600 it's already now, you know, sort of of attached all 232 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:32.080 over there and stretched tight. 233 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:34.679 Does that ever happen to you and you go, oh 234 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:35.679 good one, guys. 235 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:40.799 Not very often, especially because in the rocky mountains most 236 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.159 of the webs are relatively well concealed, whereas in places 237 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.799 like down south and you know, they stick them out 238 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:50.039 anywhere because they have a much higher opportunity here and 239 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.279 the Rockies. Most of them are where there's some light 240 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:54.720 shining or something like that, or in a dark place 241 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.159 in a barn. So it has happened occasionally in a 242 00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.080 barn where you know you just can't see them until 243 00:12:59.120 --> 00:12:59.679 it's too late. 244 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.360 The ones that feel like very fine fishing line where 245 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:06.159 you're you can almost feel it snappy. Though, that was 246 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.120 stronger than I expected it, And who did I just 247 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.320 wake up the thing? Even though I love spiders, I'm like, 248 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.000 I definitely don't want to ruin your home. I want 249 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.279 to be like Hurricane Alley just coming through ps. One 250 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:21.159 of the most beautiful things I have ever laid my 251 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:25.039 actual eyes on is this eleven by four foot tapestry 252 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:28.279 woven from golden or weaver silk. It was on display 253 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:30.240 at the American Museum of Natural History in New York 254 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.080 in two thousand and nine, and it looks kind of 255 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:36.879 like a table runner but made out of sunlight, or 256 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:41.519 like a bedspread woven from an angel's laugh. It also 257 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:46.120 looked expensive and took several years of milking wild malagassy 258 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.759 spiders to make. It was not casual. And the work 259 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:54.240 that you're doing with spidery tech, what types of materials 260 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:57.039 do you think that you'll be getting to fabricate and 261 00:13:57.639 --> 00:13:59.279 how will that kind of change the way that we 262 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:03.600 live potentially hopefully fingers crossed, all arms crossed. 263 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:07.480 Yeah, right, So I think that what most people are 264 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.399 not very aware of is is that we've been able 265 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:13.240 to develop uses other than just fibers, and I think 266 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.240 everybody when you think about spider silk, you think about clothing, 267 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:18.799 you think about climbing ropes, think about lots of things 268 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.120 along those lines, but on the fiber. And in addition, 269 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:26.240 we think there's a real opportunity for composite materials, especially 270 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:30.440 something like epoxy based composite materials that comes from two reasons. 271 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:35.279 One is unique combination of stretch and strength, and there's 272 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:37.639 no other materials out there that you could use for 273 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:38.759 reinforcing to do that. 274 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:42.519 So a composite epoxy material is usually made of say 275 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.840 glass strands or carbon fibers embedded in a glue or 276 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:50.320 a resin. So picture something made out of fiberglass and 277 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:53.720 then imagine an upgrade to spidrin. 278 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:57.639 The second is that we've found that spider silk can 279 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.559 be made into an amazing adhesive. Well, we know ours 280 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:04.240 adheres to plastic it us here ad here's to metilate it, 281 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:07.840 here's to would I mean, there's almost nothing that we 282 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:12.879 can't cote, using it as thin films, using it for coatings, 283 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:17.360 there's almost nothing we can't coat. Everything from medical there's 284 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:21.120 clearly interest in the defense department and lots of things 285 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:21.679 in between. 286 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:26.039 It seems absolutely unreal that it can be as strong 287 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.000 as steel but a lot lighter. 288 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:31.799 Sure, it's because it's got a combination of strength and stretch, 289 00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:34.320 and that's really what makes it unique, I think. 290 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:38.399 Side note, like we heard in the Bones episode of Osteology, 291 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:42.559 strength and flexibility is what make things work the best. 292 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:46.600 So let spiders inspire you. It's okay to stand up 293 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.360 for yourself and be strong, but maybe have some wiggle 294 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:53.559 room or compromise when called for. And walk me through 295 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:58.000 how you have managed to take spider silk and have 296 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:02.480 it made in the lab and made through other organisms 297 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:07.960 instead of having to hand spool anefhela spider in Madagascar. Sure, 298 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:09.440 how are you doing it right? 299 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:12.480 So you know, as part of the first week we 300 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:15.879 did identified the genes that the spiders used to make 301 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:16.840 spider silk protein. 302 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:20.919 Okay, this is bananas and it may inspire this year's 303 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:24.080 Halloween costume. Okay, So, almost a decade ago, Randy and 304 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:27.679 a research team were able to splice spider silk making 305 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:33.399 jeans into goats, and the goats then produced liquid spider 306 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:36.519 silk in their milk and Randy was able to filter 307 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.720 out the silk and then stretch it to the right 308 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:42.159 consistency using machinery. So while he got to hold a 309 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:44.679 lot of baby goats and pet baby goats on the 310 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:48.399 head and essentially be a wizardy science shepherd of transgenic 311 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.960 spider goats, there was a lot of milk being tossed. 312 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.279 So then they spliced the spider silk gene into the 313 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:59.039 DNA of silkworm moths, and rather than standard silk, those 314 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.519 caterpillars now on this highly durable and really prized spider 315 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:06.119 silk with much less waste. And when I visited his 316 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.039 lab there were trays of chonky caterpillars just macha mancha 317 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.839 manchin on ground mulberry pellets, and there are also other 318 00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:18.400 trays filled with soft egg looking cocoons that would be 319 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:21.559 boiled and spooled with the silkworms. 320 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:23.920 We were able to actually cut and splice the in 321 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:28.160 our gene in exactly the same spot as the gene 322 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:33.480 was for the silkworm silk protein, So now everything there 323 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.200 is exactly the same as it was, except there's a 324 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:40.519 different protein being made instead of the silkworm protein is 325 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:43.200 making the spider silk protein and it proceeds to just 326 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.519 put it right into the cocoon as if it were 327 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:46.240 its own silk. 328 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:48.680 And what did you start with? Did you start by 329 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.480 putting these genes into E coli? And then did you 330 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.160 move up to goats and then alfalfa and then. 331 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:58.880 Yes, so we started with back here just because they're easy. Yeah, 332 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:00.799 you know, we can put up with a new gene. 333 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:02.759 We can pop it in the colion and get protein 334 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.480 in three to four months. We then went to the 335 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.599 goats and we worked with a company in Canada who 336 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:11.000 had already developed a technology to get it into the 337 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.839 goat's milk, so that we you know, we were able 338 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.599 to take their technology and our technology, put them together 339 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:18.839 and and in lip with the spider goats. 340 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.799 Peanut butter, chocolate. Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy these pairings 341 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:26.000 have nothing on spider goats. Now, what if you're too 342 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:31.119 vegan for all? This business is outsourcing spydron limited to 343 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:35.200 goats and caterpillars. Nope, they're also working on cramming the 344 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:41.119 gene into and harvesting silk from alf alfa. Can I 345 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:46.359 ask questions from listeners? Sure, Oh my gosh, listeners have questions. Okay, 346 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.799 before we get into your spidy silk queries, a few 347 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:52.000 words about sponsors of the show who helped make it 348 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:54.559 possible to donate to a cause of the ologists choosing 349 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:56.839 each week. And I realized this week that I forgot 350 00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:58.519 to ask Randy, so I rang them up on the 351 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:01.599 horn and he answered it as desk phones man their magic. 352 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:03.920 And then he said he'd like the donation to go 353 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.880 toward the Women's Empowerment and Entrepreneurship Project in Guatemala, which 354 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.000 supports women run farming initiatives to bring to market textiles, 355 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:15.559 organic vegetables and free range chickens. And this was through 356 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.559 Heifer dot org. Okay, now you may hear some words 357 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:19.960 about some sponsors. 358 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:22.720 Drivers know what trouble sounds like? 359 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.160 No? 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Evelyn Jensen wants to know does spider 372 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:06.359 silk come in different colors? 373 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.160 Interestingly enough, the answer is yes to a certain extent. 374 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:13.559 So one of the spiders that we worked with called 375 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.640 in Golden or Weaver, and it's silk is actually a 376 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.359 gold color. There's another spider that makes sort of a 377 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.119 greenish huge silk, and then there's a whole family that 378 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:24.920 make everything from sort of a brownish silk to a 379 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.559 pinky silk, but they use it almost exclusively for their 380 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:31.920 egg cases, so it's clearly to camouflage the egg case. 381 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:35.480 So there's a pretty wide variety of colors that are 382 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.279 out there, particularly for the egg cases. 383 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.480 So spiders are just out there using their stiffest silk 384 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:44.359 to make little Easter eggs. Moving on, Deli Dame's Ashley Kelly, 385 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.960 Caleb Patten, Canon Purdy, and first time question asker Laurence 386 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.799 all echoed Christina's question. Christina Neil wants to know, how 387 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:54.799 do you feel about Spider Man? Is there even an 388 00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:57.480 ounce of truth to the idea that spider silk supporting 389 00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.759 the weight of a human being could be used or 390 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:01.079 can be used in weaponry. 391 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:04.119 So it turns out that that's a very interesting question, 392 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:06.599 and we have answered it. We got answered. We got 393 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:10.279 asked that question the first time from a children's program 394 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:15.359 at the Canadian Broadcasting Company radio program and they asked us, 395 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:17.720 you know, particularly, I guess it Spider Man two really 396 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.359 stops the train, and ask the question, could he really 397 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.200 do it? Yeah, So put the students to work on it, 398 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:26.319 and the answers, yes, there's no question. So we you know, 399 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:28.680 we took it like the last spit on it. A 400 00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:31.160 reading was like one hundred and twenty miles an hour, 401 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.200