Speaker 1: Hello, It is Ryan and I was on a flight
Speaker 1: the other day playing one of my favorite social spin
Speaker 1: slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over at
Speaker 1: the person sitting next to me, and you know what
Speaker 1: they were doing. They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence,
Speaker 1: I think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumpa
Speaker 1: Casino's home to hundreds at casino style games. You can
Speaker 1: play for free anytime, anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet.
Speaker 1: So sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com to
Speaker 1: claim you're free. Welcome bonus, that's Chumbuck Casino dot com
Speaker 1: and live the Chumba Lane.
Speaker 2: No, we're necessary void where everybody lost in terms of
Speaker 2: conditions of eating.
Speaker 3: Plus with the Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky
Speaker 3: just about anywhere.
Speaker 4: It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the
Speaker 4: weather's five. But we're just gonna circle up here a
Speaker 4: while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. It's
Speaker 4: just these cash prizes add up quick, So I suggest
Speaker 4: you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and
Speaker 4: start getting lucky.
Speaker 3: Play for free at Lucky Landslots dot com. Are you
Speaker 3: feeling lucky?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: Purchase necessary void We're prohibited by Law eighteen plus. Terms
Speaker 3: and conditions apply. See website for d Town.
Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 5: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about him Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 5: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 6: Good evening. Summertime in Florida, tourists flocked to the subtropical
Speaker 6: paradise for its beautiful beaches, abundant sunshine, and the magical
Speaker 6: allure of Disney World. For one midwestman mother and her
Speaker 6: two teenage daughters, a trip to the Sunshine State seemed
Speaker 6: like a dream vacation, but the promise of a sunset
Speaker 6: cruise by a friendly stranger turned that dream into a
Speaker 6: deadly nightmare. This is the true story of that tragic
Speaker 6: encounter and the hunt for the Sunset Killer, a modern
Speaker 6: day American Monster.
Speaker 7: The book for.
Speaker 6: Featuring this evening is American Monster, The Search for the
Speaker 6: Sunset Killer with my special guest, journalist and author and
Speaker 6: attorney JT. Hunter, welcome back to the program, and thank
Speaker 6: you very much for this interview. JT. Hunter.
Speaker 7: Thanks Dan Grief to be back here again talking with you.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for this congratulations on this new book. Incredible.
Speaker 6: Let's go to as you do right in the very
Speaker 6: beginning of your book and your prologue, we go to Tamarack, Florida,
Speaker 6: and please find a woman nude on the street, or
Speaker 6: if someone finds a woman nude on the street positioned,
Speaker 6: she's identified as Ebalis Bergeriice, a student at Broward Community College.
Speaker 6: What is the condition of the body and some of
Speaker 6: the circumstances that they find this woman that day?
Speaker 7: Yeah, this was in nineteen ninety. This was a few
Speaker 7: days after Thanksgiving, November twenty seventh, nineteen ninety. A couple
Speaker 7: guys that had been out in their weekly bowling league
Speaker 7: were driving back home in a residential neighborhood. You know,
Speaker 7: it's kind of a typical middle class neighborhood. And as
Speaker 7: they made a turn at night here, their headlights illuminated
Speaker 7: something laying in the road up ahead of them. And
Speaker 7: when they got a little bit closer, they saw that
Speaker 7: it was a woman and she was laying in the street.
Speaker 7: They stopped, jumped out of the car, went over and
Speaker 7: got closer, and she looked to not be alive anymore.
Speaker 7: And the body looked as if it had been positioned
Speaker 7: there on purpose, such that rather than you know, just
Speaker 7: kind of haphazardly being tossed out of a car or something,
Speaker 7: the body had been been propped so that it was
Speaker 7: in kind of a you know, a doggy style position
Speaker 7: at the head down and the the buttocks up, and
Speaker 7: you know, appeared to have some uprasions and some marketing
Speaker 7: vindicating that, you know, foul play had had occurred for sure.
Speaker 6: What did authorities find out about heavy Virgicallease and what
Speaker 6: where she was working? In details of how she met
Speaker 6: her fate, well Evie.
Speaker 7: She she was known as ev to her friends. She
Speaker 7: had been working her normal job at the Sawgress Mills mall,
Speaker 7: which was in the nearby city of Sunrise, Florida, and
Speaker 7: she had as usual closed the store that she worked
Speaker 7: at and apparently had walked out to the mall parking
Speaker 7: lot with one of her co workers, as it again
Speaker 7: was kind of her typical routine, and when she got
Speaker 7: to the parking lot there at the mall, her she
Speaker 7: saw that her car's tires had been slashed. Two of
Speaker 7: the tires on her car had been had been slashed,
Speaker 7: so both the tires were flats. You know, she was
Speaker 7: stuck there, and by this time her coworker had walked
Speaker 7: off to her own car and had had left, so
Speaker 7: Evie was there by herself. And at some point shortly
Speaker 7: thereafter she was taken from the parking lot by an
Speaker 7: unknown person. And that was the night of November twenty six.
Speaker 7: You know, it was probably about ten thirty, almost eleven
Speaker 7: o'clock at night at that point. And then her body
Speaker 7: was discovered the next night.
Speaker 6: And police also found that there was another attempt at
Speaker 6: that same parking lot, but that woman had called her
Speaker 6: husband and her husband had picked her up. But the
Speaker 6: intentional flattening of the tires in that parking lot didn't they.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, there had been the same sort of situation
Speaker 7: had occurred to another young woman's vehicle as well, and
Speaker 7: you know that woman was similar to the ev and
Speaker 7: you know in age and body type and those sort
Speaker 7: of characteristics.
Speaker 6: Yes, when you say at the time, you write that
Speaker 6: there was no suspect DNA at that time. They did
Speaker 6: a reenactment on television but there was no real response.
Speaker 6: Everybody's just summed it up. What a tragic loss with
Speaker 6: an angelic woman, angelic girl. You go to the in
Speaker 6: the book right away, you introduced the Sunshine State and
Speaker 6: you talk about the three major cities of Tampa, Clearwater,
Speaker 6: in Saint Petersburg in it being the second largest metro
Speaker 6: area in Florida, has a lot of water, over four
Speaker 6: hundred square miles of water. And we go to June fourth,
Speaker 6: nineteen eighty nine, and three bodies are found by three
Speaker 6: different voters. Tell us the condition of the bodies and
Speaker 6: what the Coastguard finds after these voters tell them about
Speaker 6: these bodies, what's the condition, what do they find?
Speaker 7: So about six or seven months before the incident with
Speaker 7: Evie in Sunrise, as you said, in June of eighty nine,
Speaker 7: there was there were some boaters out in Tampa Bay
Speaker 7: there in the Tampa Bay area, and on this particular
Speaker 7: day they came across some gruesome discoveries. Three bodies ended
Speaker 7: up being found in the bay. The first one was
Speaker 7: found about nine o'clock in the morning, nine nine thirty
Speaker 7: in the morning, a you know, a boater was coming
Speaker 7: back from a trip and he saw something in the
Speaker 7: water floating ahead, and he got closer to it, he
Speaker 7: saw that it was it was the human body floating
Speaker 7: face down in the water. He of course called for
Speaker 7: help and the coastguard was dispatched to the site and
Speaker 7: they ended up pulling a very decomposed floated body from
Speaker 7: the water. It was a white female, you know, about
Speaker 7: one hundred pounds, and she was nude from the from
Speaker 7: the waist down. She just had a T shirt on basically,
Speaker 7: and her her hands were bound with rope anchor anchor
Speaker 7: type rope, and her ankles were also bound as well,
Speaker 7: and she had some pieces of great duct tape on
Speaker 7: her chin, apparently having you know, been fin gagged with
Speaker 7: the duct tape and having having slid down during the
Speaker 7: decomposition process. And the coast guard officer that that found
Speaker 7: this individual described it as as really being a really
Speaker 7: gruesome thing to see and described as the horrible look
Speaker 7: on her face that she had, you know, that was
Speaker 7: frozen there in death, you know, indicative that she had
Speaker 7: this really terrifying experience. And shortly after that first body
Speaker 7: was found, not even maybe half an hour an hour later,
Speaker 7: another voter came across another body, a different part of
Speaker 7: the day a couple miles away, and this was another female,
Speaker 7: same sort of condition, bloated, decomposed, hands and ankles, bound
Speaker 7: with this rope material and again again duct tape as well.
Speaker 7: And a significant thing about these these two bodies as well,
Speaker 7: was that they had been they had been tied to
Speaker 7: what turned out to be these concrete blocks, like these
Speaker 7: home construction cbs kind of cinder blocks. They had been
Speaker 7: tied to these blocks to weigh them down. They didn't
Speaker 7: discover that with the first body because the block wing
Speaker 7: the first body down was was stuck underwater. Somehow. They
Speaker 7: couldn't they couldn't get it dislodged no matter how hard
Speaker 7: they tried, so they ended up having to just cut
Speaker 7: the rope, and you know, later attempts to try to
Speaker 7: find that that that block were unsuccessful as well by divers.
Speaker 7: But but with the second body, they were dated in fact,
Speaker 7: have the concree body block attached to the rope. When
Speaker 7: they retrieved the body, they were able to bring that up.
Speaker 7: So so that was a common characteristic as well. So
Speaker 7: that was the two bodies. And then you know, half
Speaker 7: an hour maybe half an hour later or less from
Speaker 7: the second body, a third body was reported, and you know,
Speaker 7: again the co start with despatched, the sin and pain
Speaker 7: sort of situation. Another another female, another white female, another
Speaker 7: floated decomposed body, hands and ankles, bounds, gagged, uh, concrete block,
Speaker 7: every everything the same as well. So really a really
Speaker 7: really gruesome discovery of these three bloated bodies floating out
Speaker 7: here in Tampa Bay on it, you know, and otherwise
Speaker 7: it's really nice summer day.
Speaker 6: You're right that because that they were in the water,
Speaker 6: any hair fibers, fingerprints, semen, or any other trace evidences
Speaker 6: washed away. And so the effort to identify victims, they
Speaker 6: have a press conference, they display the jewelry found, and
Speaker 6: then they have the medical examiner do the autopsy. What's
Speaker 6: the what's his result? And then how do they what
Speaker 6: do they what can they tell and what can't they
Speaker 6: tell about what happened before or after death concerning these
Speaker 6: three bodies, three people.
Speaker 7: Exactly as you said, because the bodies have been in
Speaker 7: the water for so long, the you know, the the
Speaker 7: water emotion of the water had washed away any sort
Speaker 7: of you know, forensic evidence that typically might be found
Speaker 7: at a crime s team. So it made it you know,
Speaker 7: much more difficult case was just from the get go
Speaker 7: for the for the police, as far as that goes.
Speaker 7: Was in the medical examiner, you know, found the cause
Speaker 7: of death the stain for each of these three victims.
Speaker 7: To fix you up for all three of them. And
Speaker 7: of course, you know, drowning is a form of that.
Speaker 7: But the bodies had been in the water for such
Speaker 7: a long period of time, which the medical examiner estimated
Speaker 7: they had been in the water two to three days
Speaker 7: before they were found. It was it couldn't be, you know,
Speaker 7: determined definitively that drowning was the actual cause of death
Speaker 7: versus strangulation as the cause of death. So that sort
Speaker 7: of circumstances of how they died kind of had to
Speaker 7: be pieced together a little bit later on as the
Speaker 7: investigation went forward.
Speaker 6: In the investigation, that moves forward four days after the
Speaker 6: body's found, you right, if there's the first lead. This
Speaker 6: is June eighth, they made at a day's in noticed
Speaker 6: the beds not slept in for about a week and
Speaker 6: nothing used like the towels. So and she had read
Speaker 6: about the three bodies in the newspaper and told her manager,
Speaker 6: So from that, what do police determine about these bodies,
Speaker 6: these people found.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So so several days after the bodies were found, you know,
Speaker 7: police really didn't have anything to go on. They still
Speaker 7: had these unidentified bodies, uh, you know, Jane one, Jane two,
Speaker 7: Jane Doe three. No leads at all had no idea
Speaker 7: who these people were. But then, but then several days later,
Speaker 7: on the on the eighth of June, a made as
Speaker 7: you said, at at a hotel at a day's in
Speaker 7: off of the Court and Cambil Causeway there in the
Speaker 7: Tampa Bay area. You know, noticed this one particular room
Speaker 7: at the hotel there hadn't been it didn't seem like
Speaker 7: it had been used for quite some time. That you know,
Speaker 7: the people that had had taken the room had had
Speaker 7: checked in. Obviously their belongings were there in the room,
Speaker 7: but the beds didn't appear to have been used. And
Speaker 7: you know, the whole time they in the subsequent few
Speaker 7: days and the room appearance hadn't really changed in those
Speaker 7: those days those days as well. So finally, at this point,
Speaker 7: this this particular maid who had you know, read something
Speaker 7: in the newspaper about the bodies being found, three bodies
Speaker 7: being found, as you mentioned, you know, got suspicious, rightfully so,
Speaker 7: and reported it to the general manager of the hotel there,
Speaker 7: who who you know, checked out the room himself and
Speaker 7: then notified the police. And the police were you know,
Speaker 7: showed up to the scene obviously and came to the
Speaker 7: can to the room there and and checked it out.
Speaker 7: And they were able to determine obviously from the hotel
Speaker 7: registry who the room had been rented out to, and
Speaker 7: it turned out it was rented out to a mother
Speaker 7: and her two teenage daughters from Ohio and their names
Speaker 7: were with Joan Rogers was the mother. She was thirty
Speaker 7: six years old, and her teenage daughters, Michelle who was
Speaker 7: seventeen and Christy Rogers who was fourteen at the time.
Speaker 7: So these three women had had taken the room, had
Speaker 7: checked in. You know, there was all sorts of you know,
Speaker 7: their their suitcases were in the room there, there are
Speaker 7: all their other belongings were in there as well. Camera
Speaker 7: film was in there, both both undeveloped film. Undeveloped camera
Speaker 7: film was in there, both you know, used in an
Speaker 7: unused film which you know a little bit later the
Speaker 7: police developed the film that they found in there, and
Speaker 7: that kind of helps with the investigation as well from
Speaker 7: but certainly being able to identify who the victims were
Speaker 7: was you know, a big, a big moment at the
Speaker 7: investigation because prior to this, you know, the police that
Speaker 7: really had no idea who these people were. So this,
Speaker 7: this finally gave them their first break in the case.
Speaker 6: You talk about this family, this the Rogers family, and
Speaker 6: they're from a little place called Wilshire, Ohio, and they
Speaker 6: lived on a small farm. You say, the population was
Speaker 6: five hundred and Jones Joanne as they called her, but
Speaker 6: Jones husband was Hal Rogers, and tell us about this
Speaker 6: trip because this was a big deal for this family
Speaker 6: and how was scheduled to go, but he could tell
Speaker 6: us about this dream vacation for this little family.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, as you said, the Rogers family, they
Speaker 7: were from this really small, very rural area in Ohio
Speaker 7: there and you know, actually I could really get a
Speaker 7: get a feel for it because you know, growing up,
Speaker 7: I used to go up every summer. Basically I used
Speaker 7: to go up to my grandparents' house in very rural
Speaker 7: area of Missouri and again a very very small town,
Speaker 7: very similar, so I could really get a sense of
Speaker 7: what it would have been like for this family. You know,
Speaker 7: growing up there. But they were from this this area
Speaker 7: everybody knows everybody by name, that sort of thing, and
Speaker 7: they didn't really travel much. In fact that the girls
Speaker 7: had never been out of state on a trip before,
Speaker 7: on a vacation before ever, So this was really a
Speaker 7: big deal for them to be making this trip. And
Speaker 7: you know, of all the places they could have gone to,
Speaker 7: h they decided, you know, to go down to Florida,
Speaker 7: you know, for for a lot of reasons and including
Speaker 7: you know, the the amusement parks. You know, Disney World
Speaker 7: of course is this big draw, that sort of thing.
Speaker 7: So so they planned this this vacation and you know,
Speaker 7: it was really meant to be kind of an escape
Speaker 7: for them, especially for Michelle. She had some some problems there.
Speaker 7: The preceding couple of years, she had suffered sexual abuse
Speaker 7: at the hands of her uncle, who actually lived on
Speaker 7: the same pharmison. He had started abusing her, sexually abusing
Speaker 7: her when she was fifteen and it continued, you know,
Speaker 7: over a period of the year or two. So so
Speaker 7: the staycation, you know, a big part of it was
Speaker 7: to get her away from that whole scene, you know,
Speaker 7: having to deal with, right that traumatic experience, having to
Speaker 7: deal with the police talking to them afterwards, that sort
Speaker 7: of thing. So they planned this vacation. As you said,
Speaker 7: the father, Hal Rogers wasn't able to go. He had
Speaker 7: to he basically he had to stay back and take
Speaker 7: care of the farm that they had there. You know,
Speaker 7: they had various crops planted that needed to be tended to.
Speaker 7: They were behind on that because of the rains and
Speaker 7: things that particular year. And then also they had you know,
Speaker 7: they had dairy gattle there as well, so they someone
Speaker 7: had to be there to take care of those as well.
Speaker 7: So he stayed behind. But he didn't want to you know,
Speaker 7: party through for and ruin a vacation so to speak.
Speaker 7: So he you know, he encouraged his wife and daughters
Speaker 7: to go ahead and go on the trip and have fun.
Speaker 7: So they left, and you know, it was it was
Speaker 7: planned to be you know, a good, a good over
Speaker 7: a week vacation. They had lined up and they they
Speaker 7: left on May twenty six. When they left Ohio, they
Speaker 7: drove down and you know, stopped at various places on
Speaker 7: the way, went to you know, went to jack and Mille,
Speaker 7: went to the zoo there, went to Silver Springs when
Speaker 7: you know, the famous glass bottom boat rides, Silver Springs,
Speaker 7: went to Kennedy Space Center, all that stuff, and then
Speaker 7: made their way to Orlando and stayed in Orlando for
Speaker 7: several days. You know, went to Sea World, went to
Speaker 7: Magic Kingdom, went to Epcot Center, all that kind of stuff,
Speaker 7: and then you know, towards the end of the trip,
Speaker 7: they made their way over to the Bay Area and
Speaker 7: that's when they got over there. They drove over to
Speaker 7: the Bay Area on June first, which was about a
Speaker 7: week into there in their vacation at this.
Speaker 6: Point m hmm. Now back to hol Rogers and he
Speaker 6: finds out about on the same day that he expects
Speaker 6: his family back, he finds out from police that they're
Speaker 6: dead and they've been murder and June thirteenth, there's a funeral.
Speaker 6: And you had mentioned that John Rogers had lived on
Speaker 6: the property, had been co owner of the farm and
Speaker 6: lived on the trailer and had abused and raped Michelle
Speaker 6: for eighteen months over a two year period several times.
Speaker 6: And so he had bought hell, had bought his brother
Speaker 6: out of the property, and his brother had traveled to
Speaker 6: Florida on a vacation prior to how Rogers family traveling,
Speaker 6: So there's some tell us about the funeral and just
Speaker 6: some of the observations that they find about how Rogers.
Speaker 7: Well, yeah, the funeral, you know, it was attended by
Speaker 7: a lot of family, a lot of friends you know,
Speaker 7: showed up for it. There was you know, about three
Speaker 7: hundred people showed up for this funeral in mid June,
Speaker 7: you know, at the church there in in the area,
Speaker 7: you know, kind of this kind of this Gothic style church.
Speaker 7: And you know, of course there was a lot of
Speaker 7: a lot of sadness, a lot of emotion. A lot
Speaker 7: of Michelle and Christie's friends were crying throughout, and you know,
Speaker 7: as you would expect. But you know, how how didn't
Speaker 7: show a lot of emotion. You know, based on everything
Speaker 7: I found out about him, he you know, he tended
Speaker 7: to kind of keep his emotions inside, didn't really show
Speaker 7: his emotion much. And and you know that kind of
Speaker 7: came across with some people as as as odd you know,
Speaker 7: that that he wasn't reacting like you know, they thought
Speaker 7: maybe a father who had just lost his wife and
Speaker 7: only two children should be reacting, and it, you know,
Speaker 7: just struck them as as as strange. So so you know,
Speaker 7: there were some suspicions arose from that, like, well, you know,
Speaker 7: did did how have anything to do with his family's murder?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 7: You know, was he somehow involved with this, especially because
Speaker 7: of what happened with Michelle and his brother who had
Speaker 7: you know, we already talked about, had had raped her
Speaker 7: for a while there, and you know how had actually
Speaker 7: posted the bail for his brother to get him out
Speaker 7: on the rape charge, which was also very very strange.
Speaker 7: You know, he later explained his reasoning for doing it,
Speaker 7: but but certainly, you know, it would seem odd that
Speaker 7: a father would post the bail of the rapists of
Speaker 7: his daughter, right, so that only you know, kind of
Speaker 7: fed this kind of suspicion that was that was arising,
Speaker 7: you know, around and around it how and and you know,
Speaker 7: did he or did he not have something to do
Speaker 7: with with the murder of his family?
Speaker 6: And I just that investigators, despite their procedures, by September,
Speaker 6: the Saint Petersburg Police Department to spend their task force
Speaker 6: investigating the case. Well, they take twenty four detectives to
Speaker 6: two detectives. But in October, you say, something happens in
Speaker 6: this case. Regarding it, Detective James Cappell tell us what happens,
Speaker 6: what he sees, what he realizes.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so this particular detective, he had just been reviewing
Speaker 7: this publication that you know, at the monthly publication put
Speaker 7: out by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement FDL, and
Speaker 7: he was just reading through there and he came across
Speaker 7: a notice about a rate that had occurred in Madera Beach,
Speaker 7: which was which is, you know, it's pretty close, it's
Speaker 7: about twelve miles away from the Bay area, in the
Speaker 7: Tampa Bay Area, and he read about this particular rate
Speaker 7: that had happened on May fifteenth of that year of
Speaker 7: nineteen eighty nine, so you know, we're talking about just
Speaker 7: a couple of weeks before these three bodies were profound
Speaker 7: floating out there in the water. And so he read
Speaker 7: about this rape and it had it had supposedly it
Speaker 7: occurred on a boat got on the water, and you know,
Speaker 7: that really piqued his interest. And so what he did
Speaker 7: is he ended up traveling up to Canada to interview
Speaker 7: the victim from that particular rape. The rape victim had
Speaker 7: been a young woman visiting the Tampa Bay area there
Speaker 7: from from Canada, and so he flew up there to
Speaker 7: meet with her and to discuss with her what had happened,
Speaker 7: and you know, about all the facts of the case.
Speaker 7: And you know, as as it turned out, a lot
Speaker 7: of these facts really really raised some red red flag
Speaker 7: as far as you know, the three bodies that were
Speaker 7: found a few months.
Speaker 6: Later, you talk about some of these facts. Jan Bradley
Speaker 6: had a friend, Becky Matthews, and her mother in law.
Speaker 6: You write, they came to Madeira Beach and stayed at
Speaker 6: a condo owned by Jan's aunt and uncle, and so
Speaker 6: this is Mother's Day dinner at the condo. And then
Speaker 6: after Jan and Becky went to meet some friends at
Speaker 6: John's Pass, a boat dock area with restaurants and shops
Speaker 6: not too many, not too far away from the condo,
Speaker 6: and apparently they went to a seven to eleven and
Speaker 6: met a real friendly guy. What were the details in
Speaker 6: terms of the offer by this friendly guy and the
Speaker 6: circumstances that only Jan ended up on this boat.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so they, you know, they were at this seven
Speaker 7: eleven convenient story that they stopped in and as they
Speaker 7: came out in the parking lot, this guy, you know,
Speaker 7: called out to them and he introduced himself. He said
Speaker 7: his name was Dave Posner. You know, he looked to
Speaker 7: be in his early thirties, you know, had a had
Speaker 7: a tan, kind of a little pot belly, a mustache,
Speaker 7: this kind of strawberry blondish hair, and he came across
Speaker 7: as this really personable, friendly guy, and somehow another that
Speaker 7: the you know, the fact that these two young women
Speaker 7: are from Canada came up, and so he started telling
Speaker 7: him about how he has lived in Upstate New York,
Speaker 7: you know, which is pretty close to Canada. And you know,
Speaker 7: they had a pleasant little chat there for a few
Speaker 7: minutes and then you know, they said they had to
Speaker 7: get go underneath their friends, and he, this guy, Dave Posner, said, hey,
Speaker 7: you know I can you know, I can take you
Speaker 7: over there. It's fine, I'm going that way anyway, and
Speaker 7: you know, convinced them to grab a ride with him.
Speaker 7: And you know, on the way over there, he kept
Speaker 7: chatting with them, and you know, he mentioned he had
Speaker 7: a boat and he said, hey, you guys should come
Speaker 7: out on the boat with me. You know, it'd be
Speaker 7: a lot of fun. You know, it's great sunsets, you know,
Speaker 7: this sort of thing. So he invited them out, you know,
Speaker 7: basically on kind of like a sunset cruise, and you know,
Speaker 7: they Jim eventually, you know, said okay, yeah, that sounds good.
Speaker 7: Let's do it. And they they arranged to go out
Speaker 7: of the boat with this guy. But then, but then
Speaker 7: Becky decided that she didn't want to go anymore, and
Speaker 7: Jim basically said, well, you know, you already arranged it.
Speaker 7: I can't you know, tell him no, he's already planning it,
Speaker 7: So I'm gonna go ahead and go anyway. So she
Speaker 7: ended up going out on the boat with this Dave's
Speaker 7: guy by herself, and he took her out on the
Speaker 7: water and they had a really really good time, you know,
Speaker 7: kind of kind of did played like a little tour
Speaker 7: guide for her, showing her sights and things. And but
Speaker 7: then at some point after you know, an hour or
Speaker 7: two out there on the boat, he had some kind
Speaker 7: of problem with the with the engine and he said
Speaker 7: he had to go back to shore for a while
Speaker 7: to fix it. So he took her back and dropped
Speaker 7: her back off where he picked her up and said, hey,
Speaker 7: you know, eat me back there in a couple hours,
Speaker 7: and hey, make sure you bring bring Becky back with
Speaker 7: you this time, and then we'll all go out again.
Speaker 7: So uh, you know, sure enough they met back up again,
Speaker 7: but Becky still didn't want to go, so Jan went
Speaker 7: by herself again. You know, by by this point, she
Speaker 7: was feeling more comfortable with the guy because you know,
Speaker 7: she'd been around him, he'd been out there and you know,
Speaker 7: don't seem very nice and pleasant and you know, not
Speaker 7: certainly not threatening any sort of way. So she met
Speaker 7: him again and went back out on the boat with him,
Speaker 7: and they went back out and you know, we're having
Speaker 7: a good time again. And then you know, and then
Speaker 7: eventually things changed. You know, they had thought this saw
Speaker 7: this like beautiful sunset, just as he said it would be.
Speaker 7: But you know, as after the sun went down, this
Speaker 7: they posed her character change.
Speaker 6: Yes, uh you say that he comes on to her
Speaker 6: real strong and tells her he's going to have sex
Speaker 6: with her or she's going to have sex with him,
Speaker 6: And he tells her, is it really worth losing your
Speaker 6: life over? And uh so what does he do eventually, uh,
Speaker 6: regarding this woman after his sexual assault.
Speaker 1: Hey guys, it is Ryan. I'm not sure if you
Speaker 1: know this about me, but I'm a bit of a
Speaker 1: fun fanatic when I can. I like to work, but
Speaker 1: I like fun too. It's a thing. And now the
Speaker 1: truth is out there, I can tell you about my
Speaker 1: favorite place to have fun, Chumbuck Casino. They have hundreds
Speaker 1: of social casino style games to choose from, with new
Speaker 1: games released each week. You can play for free anytime, anywhere,
Speaker 1: and each day brings a new chance to collect daily bonuses.
Speaker 1: So join me and the fun. Sign up now at
Speaker 1: chumbacasino dot com.
Speaker 2: No pets necessary, da revoid where everybody lost in terms
Speaker 2: conditions eating plus.
Speaker 1: It is Ryan here and I have a question for you.
Speaker 1: What do you do when you win?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 1: Are you a fist pumper, a woo, a handclapper, a
Speaker 1: high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But
Speaker 1: if you want to hone in on those winning moves,
Speaker 1: check out Chumbuck Casino. At chumbacasino dot com choose from
Speaker 1: hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to
Speaker 1: redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly,
Speaker 1: plus free daily bonuses. So don't wait start having the
Speaker 1: most fun ever at Chumbuck you know dot com.
Speaker 2: Part I I lost the term conditions eating plus.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so he does he does rape her out on
Speaker 7: the boat there and then he takes her back, takes
Speaker 7: her back essentially where he picked her up at, and
Speaker 7: you know, it comes up with kind of tells her
Speaker 7: that so, you know, I know you're going to report
Speaker 7: me as a police but you know, give me a
Speaker 7: favor and wait a little bit, you know, because I
Speaker 7: need to, you know, mentally prepare my old mother, who's
Speaker 7: you know, fragile. And he's not going to take this
Speaker 7: news very well and this sort of thing, so, you know,
Speaker 7: basically trying to evoke some sort of sympathy, I guess,
Speaker 7: but he does. He drops her back off where she
Speaker 7: was and let's you go, and you know, as she
Speaker 7: steps off the boat, he says something like, oh, you know,
Speaker 7: watch your stuff, you know, which is kind of a
Speaker 7: kind of an odd thing to say too as well,
Speaker 7: just have to, you know, brutally rape somebody you know
Speaker 7: who you know, threatening their life, then you can drop
Speaker 7: him off and say something like that. But so then
Speaker 7: so then he let her go, and you know, it
Speaker 7: kind of turned out later on that she was really
Speaker 7: fortunate in a way in that, you know, she had
Speaker 7: a friend who had met Dave, also had seen him
Speaker 7: and knew that they were going out on the boat together.
Speaker 7: These sorts of things because you know, this dave guy
Speaker 7: knew that there was somebody had seen him, seen his face,
Speaker 7: and you know, he couldn't he couldn't maybe do what
Speaker 7: he otherwise might have done had nobody else known that
Speaker 7: jam was out there with him.
Speaker 6: Now police have a description, and they they create a
Speaker 6: composite drawing and November third press release with the sketch.
Speaker 6: He's described as five foot nine, one hundred and ninety
Speaker 6: to two hundred pounds, short, reddish blonde hair, mustache, tan complexion,
Speaker 6: a seventeen foot boat farber Last powerboat and had great
Speaker 6: duct tape and several ropes on board. And you say
Speaker 6: the phone calls came in, Yeah, they the you.
Speaker 7: Know, the police released a sketch and then you know
Speaker 7: they started getting phone calls and various weeds and started
Speaker 7: chasing after those and spending time investigating them, and you know,
Speaker 7: some more promising than others. Is you know, typical case
Speaker 7: and investigation. But but you know, nothing that really seemed
Speaker 7: to be getting them any closer to actually figuring out
Speaker 7: who this person was or or you know, being able
Speaker 7: to identify them or catch them. For sure, you know,
Speaker 7: they did, they did seek the assistance of the FBI,
Speaker 7: and they gave you they have met with the FBI,
Speaker 7: the UH the Tampa investigators went up to UH the
Speaker 7: FBI's headquarters and met with them and were able to
Speaker 7: get a profile of the of the killer of the
Speaker 7: of the three you know women's and whose bodies were found.
Speaker 7: They were able to get a criminal profile made of
Speaker 7: the person who did this, and they actually released some
Speaker 7: of that information to the public as well, and the
Speaker 7: hopes that that would help with the investigation too. You know,
Speaker 7: the profile found that this was something that had been
Speaker 7: planned by this killer, that the victims were most likely strangers,
Speaker 7: and that you know, control had been a been big
Speaker 7: element of the crime that had been really important to
Speaker 7: the perpetrator. He had, you know, maintained control throughout the situation,
Speaker 7: had used restraints on the victims, had you know, had
Speaker 7: very likely uh committed sexual assault on them prior to
Speaker 7: killing them, and and you know, had obviously tried to
Speaker 7: dispose of the bodies to conceal the crime, which you know,
Speaker 7: turned out to be an unsuccessful attempt. You can see it,
Speaker 7: and accounted for what happens in the decomposition process, you know, otherwise,
Speaker 7: you know, but but for that the bodies, well I
Speaker 7: have never been discovered and no one would have ever
Speaker 7: known what happened to these rogers.
Speaker 6: Well, absolutely, let's use this as an opportunity JT to
Speaker 6: stop for a second to hear from our sponsor, which
Speaker 6: is Best Fiends. It was a typical night, Lisa and
Speaker 6: I had dinner, talked a little bit about her work.
Speaker 6: Then suddenly I disappeared, But no worries. I was just
Speaker 6: spending some quality time playing Best Fiends. You may have
Speaker 6: people wondering about your sudden disappearances, but I totally understand
Speaker 6: if you enjoy playing as much as I do. What
Speaker 6: I like the most about Best Fiends as it's totally distracting.
Speaker 6: I'm completely immersed and I lose myself in playing every
Speaker 6: time I just pick up and play a few levels.
Speaker 6: Anytime I have a few minutes. It feels great to
Speaker 6: beat another level or get in the zone. Right now,
Speaker 6: it's hard to believe, but I'm almost at level one
Speaker 6: thousand and only thousands to go. Best Fens is a
Speaker 6: free to download mobile puzzle game featuring always new adventures
Speaker 6: and challenges and thousands of levels with dozens of unique
Speaker 6: Fiends to collect. You customize a team of your fiends
Speaker 6: to defeat the menacing flugs. Power up your favorite fens
Speaker 6: to new levels, and watch as they transform and get stronger.
Speaker 6: You can even play offline if your internet connection is lost.
Speaker 6: New events and challenges pop up all year. There's chances
Speaker 6: to earn exclusive in game items, characters, and rewards. Download
Speaker 6: your new favorite getaway best Fens for free today on
Speaker 6: the App Store or Google Play. You'll even get five
Speaker 6: dollars worth of in game rewards when you reached level five.
Speaker 6: That's Friends without the r Best Themes now, JT. You
Speaker 6: said that they had brought in the FBI for a
Speaker 6: psychological profile and they were examining seemed to be that
Speaker 6: they were examining other cases that seemed to have similar
Speaker 6: characteristics to this particular murder of these three women. But
Speaker 6: you a character that merges be very important emerges early on.
Speaker 6: And her name is Joanne's Stephie. And she had seen
Speaker 6: that initial description that I talked about, the composite that
Speaker 6: was done November third, and she saw the sketch on
Speaker 6: TV and noticed the resemblance of the men that lived
Speaker 6: two doors down from her. She saw some of the
Speaker 6: same things that were covered in that report. What did
Speaker 6: she do with this information? Is Joanne Stephie.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so, Joanne Stephie she had seen the composite sketch
Speaker 7: that had been produced based on the you know, the
Speaker 7: input from from Jim Bradley and her friend and and
Speaker 7: when when Joanne thought, you know, it kind of struck
Speaker 7: her that this this sketch looked very similar to her
Speaker 7: former neighbor, a guy that had lived next to her,
Speaker 7: uh for for a period of time, uh in this
Speaker 7: residential neighborhood that she lived in there in the in
Speaker 7: the Bay Area. So it struck her that that there
Speaker 7: was this, you know, pretty close resemblance. But she she
Speaker 7: mentioned it to some of her friends and neighbors there,
Speaker 7: and and you know, it was basically given the caution that, well,
Speaker 7: you know, before you say anything about something like that,
Speaker 7: you know, you need to make sure you're absolutely one
Speaker 7: hundred percent sure, because you know, that can ruin a
Speaker 7: guy's life, you know, if you go and try to say, oh,
Speaker 7: you know, this is this is my neighbor here though
Speaker 7: that you have in the sketch, and then it turns out,
Speaker 7: you know, he's innocent. So so she was he was reluctance,
Speaker 7: a little reluctant to say anything, you know, because she
Speaker 7: didn't want to want to do that ruined some guy's life.
Speaker 7: But she did, you know, she kept this sketch. She
Speaker 7: actually you know, stuck it on her refrigerator there, refrigerated
Speaker 7: the war and then you know, kind of put it,
Speaker 7: put it out of her mind. We went about her life.
Speaker 7: But as the as the investigation continued, you know, they
Speaker 7: got they got a couple of years into the investigation,
Speaker 7: and they the police, the investigators made the decision that
Speaker 7: they were going to release photos of the of the
Speaker 7: three Rogers women, of Joan, Michelle, and Christy and blow
Speaker 7: him up really big and put them on billboards, you know,
Speaker 7: off off the roads in the Tampa Bay area there
Speaker 7: in the hope that someone would see them and you know,
Speaker 7: be able to provide some some more information and give
Speaker 7: them some you know, some new leads it. You know,
Speaker 7: at this point, they were basically, you know, they're basically stuck.
Speaker 7: They weren't really making any progress in the case at
Speaker 7: this point, just kind of spinning their wheels by now.
Speaker 7: So they did that, They released the pictures on the billboards.
Speaker 7: This was in the summer of ninety two. So this,
Speaker 7: you know, we're three years and to the investigation at
Speaker 7: this point, you know, and they released the photos and
Speaker 7: the billboards and again, you know, some leads are generated
Speaker 7: from that, but you know, nothing again really to substances.
Speaker 7: But then a couple of months later, there's a decision
Speaker 7: made to go even beyond that and release some actual
Speaker 7: evidence recovered from the scene and put in on billboards.
Speaker 7: And this is a you know, this is a pretty
Speaker 7: unusual step.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 7: For one, police don't typically release that sort of information
Speaker 7: in an ongoing investigation, you know, because they're worried that
Speaker 7: doing that is going to somehow adversely impact the investigation.
Speaker 7: They want to keep certain facts to themselves that only
Speaker 7: you know, the killer would know. They don't want it
Speaker 7: out there, you know, in the public domain, so to speak.
Speaker 7: So they did this, and what they did is what
Speaker 7: had been recovered. One of the things that had been
Speaker 7: recovered was a brochure, you know, like its first brochure
Speaker 7: advertising some attractions there in the Saint Petersburg area. And
Speaker 7: on the strictul their brochure there was handwriting and there
Speaker 7: there was some handwritten directions it seemed like on this
Speaker 7: on this brochure, and the handwriting wasn't that of any
Speaker 7: of the three Rogers women. And you know, it was
Speaker 7: suspected that whoever wrote those directions on there, you know,
Speaker 7: they either had something to do with their smunger or
Speaker 7: at the very least they you know, might have some
Speaker 7: information that could you know, help out with the investigation.
Speaker 7: So they what they did is the police, you know,
Speaker 7: blew up these directions, this this prossure and displayed that
Speaker 7: on these billboards and you know, real prominent areas and
Speaker 7: so that people could see it. And you know, of course,
Speaker 7: pictures of these billboards were then put in the newspaper
Speaker 7: with a story about it and showing on the news
Speaker 7: and all that sort of thing. And as a result
Speaker 7: of that, joe Anne Steppie saw that, you know, I
Speaker 7: believe she read it in the paper the next morning,
Speaker 7: saw pictures of the directions that had been posted and
Speaker 7: things like that, and and when she saw the handwriting again,
Speaker 7: it was something that really seemed very familiar to her,
Speaker 7: just as the sketch, the composite sketch, seemed very familiar.
Speaker 7: Now the handwriting seemed very familiar to her. So she
Speaker 7: she went to her friend who had who she thought
Speaker 7: might have some handwriting samples u pertain to this, and
Speaker 7: sure enough she did. So they were able to compare
Speaker 7: some handwriting that they had from this individual again, this
Speaker 7: this former neighbor, against the handwriting samples displayed there in
Speaker 7: the billboards, and sure enough, very very very similar. And
Speaker 7: at this point she was, you know, convinced enough to
Speaker 7: actually notify the police about it.
Speaker 6: Yes, it was. It was interesting you write that it
Speaker 6: was a work order for something she had he had
Speaker 6: done for the woman. And and right away when police
Speaker 6: canvas and talk to the people, the consensus is he
Speaker 6: was a really nice, helpful guy and his name was
Speaker 6: obas Chandler.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and you know, everybody they talked to seemed to
Speaker 7: have the same sort of perception of him as as
Speaker 7: you said, as this as this you know, kind of
Speaker 7: nice guy, helpful guy. You know, he'd helped his neighbors
Speaker 7: a certain things at certain times, and which was actually
Speaker 7: consistent with what the criminal profile had had, you know,
Speaker 7: predicted that he would be this this guy that would
Speaker 7: be blending in to the community, that he would seem
Speaker 7: like kind of a typical friendly, you know, next door
Speaker 7: neighbor kind of person and that's apparently, that's indeed how
Speaker 7: he came across that he was, you know, able to
Speaker 7: be able to maintain this ruse and blend in the
Speaker 7: whole time, and you know, no one suspecting anything bad
Speaker 7: about him at all.
Speaker 6: So they do a search, but they have him. He's
Speaker 6: he's his name is and he has a driver's license
Speaker 6: for this game's right, But regardless, they have him. With
Speaker 6: a search of his home, you say, they find a
Speaker 6: quarter million dollars worth of jewelry and tools, videos, SMBD
Speaker 6: and a green shirt that Jan Bradley said he had
Speaker 6: on when he raped her. And they find out more
Speaker 6: about the robbery from his wife, Deborah tell us what
Speaker 6: police find and what they hear about some of his
Speaker 6: activities with his wife regarding absences from the home.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so they were able to eventually, once they identify
Speaker 7: him as over Toba Chandler, they were able to, you know,
Speaker 7: now that they had this information, they were able to
Speaker 7: dig into his past and and interview his wife and
Speaker 7: things like this. But you know, they did find out
Speaker 7: that he had committed a bunch of robberies in his past.
Speaker 7: He actually had a very extensive record of various thefts
Speaker 7: and robberies, including you know, the substantial jewelry robbery that
Speaker 7: happens in the Bay area and some other things. But
Speaker 7: he had he had a lengthy past, you know, including
Speaker 7: you know, home invasion robbery and they the Beach area.
Speaker 7: He had been involved in some sort of counterfeiting scheme,
Speaker 7: had been arrested back in the early eighties for counterfeiting,
Speaker 7: served you know, a prison sentence, a lengthy prison sentence
Speaker 7: for that. And you know, again as I think, as
Speaker 7: you mentioned, you know, he had this alias James Wright,
Speaker 7: and that's when what he had gone by for years
Speaker 7: and years and was able to you know, it really
Speaker 7: kind of struck me when I was looking into this
Speaker 7: one of the things that it just seemed like he
Speaker 7: was able to evade detection, like just by such as
Speaker 7: simple means as using this false name and in false
Speaker 7: driver's license, And it really struck me, like, how how
Speaker 7: was that never able to be you know, seen through,
Speaker 7: or how was he able to pull it off by that?
Speaker 7: Like how would the police not be able to find
Speaker 7: out his true identity? But nevertheless, he was able to
Speaker 7: do this, and so he had this extensive record, and
Speaker 7: you know, once they did identify him you know, by
Speaker 7: then he was he left the area, so they had
Speaker 7: to track try to track him down there where he was.
Speaker 7: They finally caught up to him, finally arrested him.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 7: You know, we're able to interview his wife as as
Speaker 7: you mentioned, and you know learned that you know, he
Speaker 7: did have a kind of a history of of of
Speaker 7: abruptly leaving at times, not really telling her why or
Speaker 7: how long you'd be gone, and that sort of thing,
Speaker 7: and you know, and then you know, coming back eventually,
Speaker 7: but so you certainly had this kind of track record
Speaker 7: of unexplained absences.
Speaker 6: He's eventually there's a grand jury indictment and he's eventually charged.
Speaker 6: There was some information. He has a daughter named Crystal Mays,
Speaker 6: and police find out that there was some contacts and
Speaker 6: he says some things to his daughter. This trial is
Speaker 6: unique in that normally you would see a two prosecutor team,
Speaker 6: maybe an investigator as well, but in this regard, you
Speaker 6: right that there's four prosecutors on this case, isn't it.
Speaker 7: Yeah? The State Attorney Office, you know, they really handled
Speaker 7: this as an extremely important case. You know, it had
Speaker 7: been it had been the investigation had taken so long,
Speaker 7: and it was you know, it was a famous case,
Speaker 7: the infamous case. You know, three You don't find three
Speaker 7: bodies and the Bob and the bay very often, So
Speaker 7: it was it had got a lot of press attempted
Speaker 7: press attention, and so that the State Attorneys office ticket
Speaker 7: real seriously and they devoted a lot of resources to
Speaker 7: the prosecute the case. And you know, the trial itself
Speaker 7: ended up being followed very closely by the media obviously
Speaker 7: as well. And uh, it ended up being a very
Speaker 7: ementful trial too.
Speaker 6: Jesus as an opportunity to stop for a second for
Speaker 6: these commercials. Now you talked about that he had this
Speaker 6: prosecution team against this Rogers, but they also had a
Speaker 6: fine defense team as well, including an attorney named Zenobar
Speaker 6: or Zeno Bar. And he had a strategy for this
Speaker 6: regarding the Madeira rape case and evidence that would be
Speaker 6: raised at this murder trial. So it's a little complex,
Speaker 6: but tell us what this legal strategy was.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so the lead defense a journey for Zinneberg. He had,
Speaker 7: you know, he had originally was fighting having anything brought
Speaker 7: into the trial about the Madera Beach rape. You know,
Speaker 7: he wanted that excluded. He actually, you know, quite quite
Speaker 7: hard to have that excluded for quite some time, but
Speaker 7: then when the trial actually started, he abruptly abandoned that
Speaker 7: strategy and decided that, you know, rather than try to
Speaker 7: fight that, you would just say, yeah, this rape happened,
Speaker 7: and basically basically admitting that, you know, his client had
Speaker 7: committed this rape. But the legal strategy essentially boiled down
Speaker 7: to that it was it was a it was a
Speaker 7: different case, and it wasn't it wasn't sufficiently similar to
Speaker 7: be able to be pointed to as saying, oh, this
Speaker 7: can establish guilt of murder, you know, and the thought
Speaker 7: process being that, well, the jury knows that Oba Chandler
Speaker 7: is going to be serving some sort of time for
Speaker 7: this rape, then perhaps they won't be as inclined to
Speaker 7: want to find him guilty in the murder trial. So
Speaker 7: that's kind of the legal strategy that he was using.
Speaker 6: The other part of I don't know what's strategy, but
Speaker 6: the defense attorneys Cenobar had promised that that Rogers would
Speaker 6: testify on his own behalf, and he certainly did so.
Speaker 6: What there was the main issue, or one of the
Speaker 6: big issues, was his handwriting match from the directions he
Speaker 6: gave to Rogers family on the brochure, but also the
Speaker 6: effect of his testimony at this trial. As you write,
Speaker 6: tell us a little bit about testimony, what he said
Speaker 6: and its effect.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So, so the defense made the decision that uber Chandler
Speaker 7: would would testify. You know, of course, in the criminal
Speaker 7: trial that the defendant does not have to testify, They
Speaker 7: don't have to take the stand. And quite frequently, in fact,
Speaker 7: you know, as you probably know, that these defendants don't
Speaker 7: take the stand, right just because you know, there's a
Speaker 7: lot of risks involved in that, you know, including being
Speaker 7: subject across examination by the prosecution if you do that.
Speaker 7: So oftentimes they don't take the stand. But in this case,
Speaker 7: ober Chandler took the stand. He did testify, and you know,
Speaker 7: I guess the belief was that you know, he had
Speaker 7: been able to pool people for so long, and you know,
Speaker 7: he had this personality that they figured he'd come across
Speaker 7: well as a as a witness, and that you know,
Speaker 7: the jury would believe him, you know, and saying that
Speaker 7: he had nothing to do with it, and that he
Speaker 7: never took him out on the boat and all this
Speaker 7: kind of thing. But but it actually kind of blew
Speaker 7: up in their face because the jurors didn't really by one,
Speaker 7: they didn't find him persuasive, and in two, they didn't
Speaker 7: really like him. When he testify it, he came across
Speaker 7: as as someone who was, you know, not being honest
Speaker 7: and someone who was not someone that could be believed in,
Speaker 7: someone that they didn't really like. So it really kind
Speaker 7: of blew up in their face. And you know, one
Speaker 7: of the one of the issues that came up in
Speaker 7: his testimony was, you know what happened when he was
Speaker 7: out on his boat on this particular night because they
Speaker 7: were able to place as being out on the bay
Speaker 7: the night that the murders would have occurred. They were
Speaker 7: able to place him out there based on phone records
Speaker 7: that that they subpoened and were able to track down
Speaker 7: showing that he had been out there and made calls
Speaker 7: from his boat on that particular night. So so he
Speaker 7: had to admit, you know, that he was out there,
Speaker 7: and you know, so the question Campbell, you know, what
Speaker 7: were you doing out there? And why we out there
Speaker 7: for so long and all this kind of stuff, And
Speaker 7: so his explanation was that he had had mechanical issues
Speaker 7: with his boat out there and that he'd basically kind
Speaker 7: of been stuck out there for a long period of
Speaker 7: time while he was trying to deal with the you know,
Speaker 7: the engine issues that were going on up there with
Speaker 7: the boat, and he, you know, he basically got trapped
Speaker 7: in a in a lie. And you know, it came
Speaker 7: across very clearly to the jury when it when it happened,
Speaker 7: and it was a you know, a big, a big
Speaker 7: almost like a Perry Mason kind of moment, you know,
Speaker 7: when the when the prosecution was able to show that
Speaker 7: what he was claiming could not have in fact happened
Speaker 7: at he queened it.
Speaker 6: Yes, it's very interesting, as you're write, very exciting that
Speaker 6: at the same time that he's testifying about this repair
Speaker 6: ironically with duct tape, there's an assistant state attorney watching
Speaker 6: the proceedings in the very courthouse and knew all about
Speaker 6: boats and immediately knew that the why the story sounded
Speaker 6: false just not possible mechanically, and like you say, a
Speaker 6: trialed then it just this whole thing that he thought
Speaker 6: was so clever blew up in his face as a lie,
Speaker 6: as you say.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and you know, and it really it really surprised
Speaker 7: his attorney as well, because basically the attorney basically bought
Speaker 7: the story as well. You know, he basically believed what
Speaker 7: Pliant was telling him, and you know, so he was
Speaker 7: he was, he was, this is a big unexpected turn
Speaker 7: of events, and this that he said this. This other
Speaker 7: member of the prosecution team was was watching it, and
Speaker 7: he happened to be familiar with boats, knew a lot
Speaker 7: about him, and you know, knew that probably wasn't true,
Speaker 7: and so they dashed out and got a you know,
Speaker 7: an expert witness to come in and testify about it.
Speaker 6: It's interesting too, when you say in the in the
Speaker 6: closing arguments, and when the prosecution scoffs at the defensive
Speaker 6: point that trying to give some semblance of a good
Speaker 6: character in Oba Chandler in that one of during one
Speaker 6: of his assaults on the boat where the woman narrowly
Speaker 6: escaped because her friend was waiting for her, he tried
Speaker 6: to because she was menstruating, he tried to sexually assault
Speaker 6: her anally, and she told him that she had rectal
Speaker 6: cancer and so he didn't. So the defense remarkably brought
Speaker 6: that up as some kind of character point for Oba
Speaker 6: Chandler in this trial. Very very interesting, and that was
Speaker 6: scoffed at by prosecution.
Speaker 7: As you're write, yeah, it's a kind of a crazy
Speaker 7: thing to bring up, as you say, there, you know,
Speaker 7: they're trying to show, oh, well, he's not that bad
Speaker 7: because you know, he didn't actually anally raperr. You know,
Speaker 7: he like as if he had some sort of you know,
Speaker 7: compassion or something, and he wasn't that bad of a
Speaker 7: guy for not raping her that way. He raped her
Speaker 7: another way instead, you know, as if any sort of
Speaker 7: rape would be you know, Okay, So he was an
Speaker 7: interesting fact to take for sure.
Speaker 6: An you're right that there was uh, this is ten
Speaker 6: days of trial testimony, but the jury deliberated for only
Speaker 6: eighty minutes. What was the result and what was the
Speaker 6: reaction from Oba Chandler, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 7: It was a quick, quick deliberation. He was he was
Speaker 7: found you know, guilty of the murders of the Rogers women,
Speaker 7: all three counts.
Speaker 5: It.
Speaker 7: He didn't really Chandler didn't have much of a reaction.
Speaker 7: He was pretty stone faced for it. And you know,
Speaker 7: it took the jury even less time to come up
Speaker 7: with the recommended penalty for the crime, which ends up
Speaker 7: being the death penalty. It came to that recommendation very
Speaker 7: very quickly, and so he was convicted in all three
Speaker 7: counts in the Rogers murders and given.
Speaker 6: You right. And we didn't mention this already, but there
Speaker 6: was some talk of this as well, right from the
Speaker 6: profiler in the beginning that was brought in from the
Speaker 6: FBI that it was it seemed that there was a
Speaker 6: possibility that they were these women were alive when they
Speaker 6: were thrown in to the water, and the judge made
Speaker 6: sure that everybody heard that they watched each other die.
Speaker 6: He mentioned and he said, imagine the terror, and so
Speaker 6: was very it was emphasized what the horror that these
Speaker 6: women experienced one by one seeing what was being done
Speaker 6: to each one of them and then realizing and who
Speaker 6: was last, no one knows, but the horror of seeing
Speaker 6: each other subsequently be raped and killed and thrown overboard
Speaker 6: as they determined likely alive.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, that's something that really really hit me
Speaker 7: as well when I was when I was writing this
Speaker 7: is just imagining that scenario and imagining being one of
Speaker 7: these women out there, you know, being a mother or
Speaker 7: one of the teenage daughters out there on this boat
Speaker 7: at night and experiencing this, and just how horrific that
Speaker 7: would really be. And the judge really really brought that
Speaker 7: home as well. And the sentencing and you know, I
Speaker 7: quote I quote it in the book, and you know,
Speaker 7: she was really effected and conveying this and and she said,
Speaker 7: one victim was first to watched, Imagine the fear, one
Speaker 7: victim was second, one watched, Imagine the horror. Finally, the
Speaker 7: last victim would see the other two disappear over the side,
Speaker 7: was lifted up and thrown overboard. Imagine the terror. Chandler's
Speaker 7: torture of these three women was over with their panic
Speaker 7: and fear in the water before their merciful death is unfathomable.
Speaker 7: And yeah, it really struck me. It was just I mean,
Speaker 7: you almost can't imagine how horrible that would be. I
Speaker 7: mean just yeah, just a parent having to witness their
Speaker 7: child being brutally raped and murdered in the scenarios, just
Speaker 7: it just it just leads a back casting around.
Speaker 6: You know. The thing is that what from everything from
Speaker 6: first responders, from the public that saw the bloated bodies,
Speaker 6: to the coast guard that had to experience the horror
Speaker 6: of seeing these people unrecognizable completely to the people, then
Speaker 6: the task force, the Sindra Cummings, Detective more JJ Goyhagen
Speaker 6: and the other people that were dedicated and this case
Speaker 6: hit them personally and they were all involve bringing this
Speaker 6: guy to justice. But also what we did mention was
Speaker 6: there was very interesting array of inmates that were feted
Speaker 6: and then were prosecution witnesses. So some of the horrific
Speaker 6: dialogue that was provided at this trial that people can
Speaker 6: read about also reinforced from the Madeira rape dialogue to
Speaker 6: other things that Rogers said to these inmates that reinforced
Speaker 6: that he was referring to these murders and in his
Speaker 6: incredibly talous nature and some of the horrific remarks he
Speaker 6: said apparently about the Rogers murder and what he said
Speaker 6: to these people before they were killed, and other victims
Speaker 6: that narrowly escaped murder on from Rogers itself. So it's
Speaker 6: the trial is very eye opening and his testimony that
Speaker 6: a lot that you provide is harrowing as well. Well.
Speaker 6: It's an incredible trial. And one of the like one
Speaker 6: of the jurors I mentioned, he wrote that he had
Speaker 6: a smirk on his face and he that Jurdis wanted
Speaker 6: to wipe that smirk off his face.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly. He just said, you know it really some
Speaker 7: of the testimony that came out really underscored the callousness
Speaker 7: that the cold bloodedness that he had and that he
Speaker 7: you know, how he carried out these crimes, and you
Speaker 7: know almost you know, seems seemed really proud of himself
Speaker 7: what was for it, kind of bragged about it.
Speaker 6: You write that he was appeals wound through the court slowly.
Speaker 6: Seventeen years later he was up for execution, but which
Speaker 6: you're right, was very interesting. We go back to the
Speaker 6: prologue now. In your epilogue that February twenty fifth, twenty
Speaker 6: and fourteen, there was a major announcement in its five
Speaker 6: year old homicide and well we had mentioned that heavy
Speaker 6: burge bridgey Burgratories pardon me, I'm paturing that name in
Speaker 6: November nineteen ninety and Coral Springs. There was improvements in
Speaker 6: D and day the technology and Chandler lived one and
Speaker 6: a half miles away from the mall where she was
Speaker 6: last seen. What is that announcement in regarding this woman.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so this is one of the things that really
Speaker 7: interested me in the in the case too, when I
Speaker 7: was researching it. You know that three years after OVI
Speaker 7: Chandler was executed. He's you know, he's tied to a
Speaker 7: new crime, to another murder, you know, thanks to advances
Speaker 7: in DNA technology, and you know, and you know this
Speaker 7: is we see this happen in other cases as well. Obviously,
Speaker 7: as the as the technology has improved, the ability to
Speaker 7: solve various unsolved crimes has has occurred, and that certainly
Speaker 7: happened here. And you know, he's executed in twenty eleven,
Speaker 7: and then in twenty fourteen there's an announcement from out
Speaker 7: of Broward County that that over Chandler has been identified
Speaker 7: as the killer of Evil's figure Ease. As you said,
Speaker 7: that had happened back in nineteen ninety. So this unsolved crime, now,
Speaker 7: thanks to the DNA advanced technology, is able to be solved.
Speaker 7: And what had happened is investigators there in Broward County,
Speaker 7: had you know, aware of the fact that the technology
Speaker 7: had gotten better, had decided to go back and take
Speaker 7: a look at this again. And using this better technology,
Speaker 7: they were able to identify DNA profile from some semen
Speaker 7: that had been still on some swabs taken from the
Speaker 7: victims of vagina back you know, decades before and after
Speaker 7: entering that that DNA profile in the in the database,
Speaker 7: you know, a match came back for O the chandler.
Speaker 7: So so this this murder, this wall and in soolved murders,
Speaker 7: finally solved. And you know, it really struck me that,
Speaker 7: you know, that's the great example of how the policing
Speaker 7: technology advances have helped, you know, solve these otherwise unsolvable crimes.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And closing too, you say that Detective Glenn Moore,
Speaker 6: which was instrumental in this investigation, satisfaction. He had a
Speaker 6: satisfaction in knowing that the task force, timely aid by
Speaker 6: members of the public, succeeded in getting a serial killer
Speaker 6: permanently off the streets. So some semblance of satisfaction. I
Speaker 6: want to thank you very much J. T. Hunter for
Speaker 6: coming on and talking about your latest American monster, the
Speaker 6: Search for the Sunset Killer. I want to thank you
Speaker 6: very much for this interview.
Speaker 7: JT.
Speaker 6: Hunter.
Speaker 7: Thank you, thanks for having me on again, and uh
Speaker 7: I look forward to talking to you again in the future.
Speaker 6: I hope absolutely. Thank you so much. JT. Hunter.
Speaker 7: Good night, all right, because