Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
where we left off with the interview by the unnamed
Captain at MCC with the OIG investigators question, so back
to this though, can you look at the other Shoe
on you know, the subsequent shifts if you had conversations
with them? Answer so Thomas, no, because he would have
just been on there. Redacted. Yeah, I talked to her
adacted because Redacted would go between evening Watch because I
would talk with them. Redacted would work evening watch, so
I have talked with him on evening watch. He was
working morning watch because these guys it was such a
short of staff that these Shoe guys was working back
to back shifts or staff. It didn't matter. People who
wanted money, were wanted to you know, they'd sign up
for overtime. So redacted was one of the regular Shoe
staff on the evening watch. Yeah, so I talked to him, Redacted.
I talk with him redacted. Redacted would go between the
three and also the OIC because he had the most
knowledge out of those guys. So sometimes he even though
he was the three, he was the one with oice
duty question and OIC stands for officer in charge answer,
officer in charge. So he was doing all the rosters.
When it was time to move inmates inside the units,
you know, he was in charge of ensuring that those
century rosters were updated to ensure that the accountability of
the unit was correct, to make sure that the inmates
were placed in their proper selves. Who was this I'm sorry,
hold on question and so in the shoe we want
to be focusing on answer Noel Toova. Noel was one
of the question and that's Tovah answer. Now I know Tova,
now Tovah. I can't remember if I spoke to Tova,
but I know that I had hit all three shifts,
meaning that day watch. I was always up there on
day watch, evening watch. I stayed over because that's what
the warden wanted. He told me, hey, make sure you
go and hit all the three shifts. The warden told
me to do it. So if the warden told me
to do it, why wouldn't I go and do it? Question?
Sure answer the warden. We sat down. He said that
these are the things that I want to happen. First,
I want to make sure walk through talk about make
sure the staff is aware indiscernible are doing this, this
and this, and also I know that you have that.
I put out an email, so I just didn't tell them.
What do you call that? Question? So you sent an
email to all the shoe Answer? Yeah, I did to
all correctional services staff, and I think I still got it.
Question to all correctional Answer, yeah, I still got it.
Question did you ever provide that to anyone? Answer? Huh.
Question did you ever provide that to anyone? Answer? No,
they never asked for it. Question can you absolutely provide
that to us? Answer? Yeah, I think I have one,
and we can go to my office so I can
show you. I don't want you to think I will
bring it up for you. Question So would have this
Michael Thomas and Toven Nowell been on that email? Answer?
Tova would have been because she's a correctional officer, but
not Thomas. Answer okay, question you understand. Question okay, but
I thought that everyone was considered a correctional officer. That's
not the case. Answer As far as when emergencies happen,
When emergencies happen, regardless of what your discipline is, we
all come together. It means you go into everyone. When
you came in the GOP, everyone was given the opportunity
that when you went through correctional those tactics that you
learned in Glencoe. It was about being a correctional officer.
It wasn't about being a dentist or being a chaplain
or whatever. It's about correctional principles. Question. Okay, answer introduction
to correctional principles question. But as far as there was
an email that just the people that are working in
the correctional officer answer yes, and I can show that
to you. Question perfect answer, I have that question. Awesome
answer because it wasn't just me just talking to them.
I put out guidance and I keep putting out guidance.
It wasn't like it was. One time I talked about
inmates being placed on suicide watch. I talked about inmates
putting on there. What is the difference between close supervision?
What is it suicide watch? Question? Psychological observation answer and
psychological There's no such thing as psychological, and that you know,
there's no such thing. It's called close supervision. There's no
such thing as psychological. That was an mcc thing. Question. Okay,
answer that they made up. So it's a close supervision
suicide watch. Question. So you have at least one email though,
that you sent to correctional officers saying that Epstein needed
a cell mate. Answer. I wasn't saying Epstein. But I
do have two. I think I gave one email and
one memorandum that I wrote for the five eighty three
packet for Epstein. I think you may have that. I
don't know if you have it. And then I have
wrote another one about the importance of doing thirty minute
rounds in the special housing unit. Question. Okay, yeah, if
you can after we're done, either you can send it
to me or you can give it to me. Answer.
I can give it to you. I'm going to give
you a copy. Question perfect, all right? Then, just I
think there's a few more like I don't know how
to spell his name, pronounce his name. But again, that
was another non custody guy, so redacted I believe worked.
He was a material handler. I think redacted was a
material handler, so he's not correctional services anymore. However, did
that I have a background. No, I'm sorry. Redacted went
to R and D, so he was receiving and discharge.
So these staff members worked as correctional officers, came up
as correctional officers, but their daily assignment, their job descriptions changed.
They're whatever, they're non custody. Question. So the people that
worked in the shoe and the correctional officers, they were
aware of it, but people that had different functions in
the facility they may not have been. Answer. May not
have been because I wouldn't talk to them on a
daily basis. Question And what about do you know if
there was any kind of like post it notes or
sticky notes? Answer? Yeah, I had created It was one
because I said orange card inmates. I said, make sure
these particular inmates inmates high visibility inmates. And I think
I talked about that that the other inmate their card
should be orange and those would be our high visibility
inmates that you and I think I got an email
about that too, about the high visibility inmates inside the unit.
You should take special care to ensure these inmates are
observed when you're doing your rounds. Question anything though about
the actual cellmate requirement though? Do you know if there
was any kind of like sticky note or any kind
of post it about saying hey, make sure that Epstein answer.
I can't remember. But like I said, I was putting
out a lot of guidance, you know, coming from and
you know, coming from the warden and things that I
would have thought that was beneficial to the correctional officers.
I was just putting that guidance out. I kept putting
it out, you know, like I said, you know, I'm
going to be talking to them on putting out the guidance.
But if they don't open their email and don't read it. Question,
what about some of the people who are acting lieutenants
somebody like a redacted answer? Redacted? Sorry, so redacted? She
would work correctional post question, so she would not have
known that answer. She would have known. Question should she
have known that Epstein had to have a second cellmate? Answer?
It's common knowledge that you're supposed to do the thirty
minute rounds question uh huh answer and be vigilant. But however,
would she know necessarily that those protocols were placed on
Jeffrey Epstein, that he was supposed to have a SELLI
I mean, you see an orange card if you see
the guidance. I believe I had put something together that
was on the OIC's desk. On the desk talked about
the high visibility inmates and Jeffrey Epstein was a high
visibility inmate. Question but is it understood that a high
visibility inmate like that needs a cell mate? Answer yes,
question okay, so you're saying make sure you're doing rounds.
But it's also understood if it's a high visibility cell mate,
they need a cell mate at all times. Answer yes,
question okay, And did they all understand that? Answer yes,
question all right, and to include Thomas, he cuts some
I don't know. How about Noel is the next question? Answer?
Because they are not custody and I don't believe I
had that conversation with them. I'm not going to lie
I didn't have the conversation with them. Redacted. What about
some of these lieutenants, like acting lieutenant like redacted? Answer redacted? Oh,
redacted was in corectional service and she, I believe during
the time was working on attorney conference. Question Yes, answer,
she was in correctional service. She was working an attorney
conference during that time, so redacted. I actually promoted her
to acting lieutenant. She was getting paid as a lieutenant,
so yes, she would have known question, So she should
have or would have or should have answer yes. Question,
how about some of the other ones that were on
you said redacted? Obviously you already said you specifically directed him.
Answer if he Yeah, I brought him in the office
and we spoke. Yes. Question do you know how and
I think you said that you spoke to him on
multiple occasions? Is that correct? And made sure that he
knew and made sure that Epstein needed a cellmate? Answer yes,
question Okay, what about redacted? Answer redacted, I had conversations. Well,
I don't believe I had a conversation with her. Question
should she have known based upon the orange cart Answer yes,
she should have known because I put the guidance out
through the email. Question Now the guidance though set about
you said it talked about rounds as opposed to actual
cellmate requirement though correct answer, I can't remember. Question okay,
answer you know, I don't know because, like I said, again,
I put out a lot of guidance. Answer yeah, question,
but I know the people who I actually spoke to
as far as like, hey, you the OIC, I mean
you're the Lieutenant of Shoe. That means you're working day
watch means means any movement happens on day watch, it
don't happen on morning watch in matro locked in their cells.
Question right answer, So anything day watch, evening watch, that
shoe lieutenant should be aware. Question okay, and we'll get
into gets cut off. So that's why we would have
had the conversation when he and I had that conversation.
Question and do you remember so you recall specifically talking
with them, do you? And this is I want to
know about aside from what they should have known, specific
conversations with redacted answer. I can't remember about redacted. I
believe it's internal. I came into the lieutenant's office and
we spoke about it, so as a collective, the lieutenants
were made aware. I can't say I remember that I
would come into the lieutenants and we would talk about Epstein.
So again, between the guidance that was put out through
the emails and the conversations that I would have just
had encountering lieutenants. Yes, but however I can tell you
for sure I had a conversation with redacted answer and
would have redacted made sure that those people working in
the Shoe knew this information. Answer. He would have as
a lieutenant in charge, Yes, he should have made sure
somebody like somebody that's not in there, although Tavin Nowell,
I think that was her quarterly post, or at least
she was in there a lot of times question uh
huh answer leading up to it, So I should have
made sure that she knew because she worked evening watch.
Question what about Michael Thomas. Answer Michael Thomas, probably not,
but by him working in the unit, he would know.
I mean, you would say, okay if he's working on
evening watch or morning watch. There was no need to
move inmates. There was no showers that should have been
taking place. There was no earrings, no medical nothing. We
had to open up a self for for those inmates.
Answer or question okay answer, So most of those in
mates was done on day watch. There was no reason
for them to move these guys question okay, All right, folks,
we're gonna wrap up right here and in the next
episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
we left off. All the information that goes with this
episode can be found in the description box.