1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,639 Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up 3 00:00:06,639 --> 00:00:09,839 where we left off with the interview by the unnamed 4 00:00:09,919 --> 00:00:17,559 Captain at MCC with the OIG investigators question, so back 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,760 to this though, can you look at the other Shoe 6 00:00:19,879 --> 00:00:23,280 on you know, the subsequent shifts if you had conversations 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,879 with them? Answer so Thomas, no, because he would have 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,000 just been on there. Redacted. Yeah, I talked to her 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,719 adacted because Redacted would go between evening Watch because I 10 00:00:35,719 --> 00:00:39,359 would talk with them. Redacted would work evening watch, so 11 00:00:39,439 --> 00:00:42,119 I have talked with him on evening watch. He was 12 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,880 working morning watch because these guys it was such a 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,000 short of staff that these Shoe guys was working back 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,119 to back shifts or staff. It didn't matter. People who 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,960 wanted money, were wanted to you know, they'd sign up 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,240 for overtime. So redacted was one of the regular Shoe 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,840 staff on the evening watch. Yeah, so I talked to him, Redacted. 18 00:01:02,079 --> 00:01:05,879 I talk with him redacted. Redacted would go between the 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,920 three and also the OIC because he had the most 20 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,400 knowledge out of those guys. So sometimes he even though 21 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,120 he was the three, he was the one with oice 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:21,680 duty question and OIC stands for officer in charge answer, 23 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,920 officer in charge. So he was doing all the rosters. 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,519 When it was time to move inmates inside the units, 25 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,200 you know, he was in charge of ensuring that those 26 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,560 century rosters were updated to ensure that the accountability of 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,040 the unit was correct, to make sure that the inmates 28 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,959 were placed in their proper selves. Who was this I'm sorry, 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,519 hold on question and so in the shoe we want 30 00:01:44,519 --> 00:01:48,719 to be focusing on answer Noel Toova. Noel was one 31 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:54,239 of the question and that's Tovah answer. Now I know Tova, 32 00:01:54,359 --> 00:01:56,920 now Tovah. I can't remember if I spoke to Tova, 33 00:01:58,599 --> 00:02:00,760 but I know that I had hit all three shifts, 34 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,239 meaning that day watch. I was always up there on 35 00:02:03,319 --> 00:02:06,560 day watch, evening watch. I stayed over because that's what 36 00:02:06,599 --> 00:02:09,759 the warden wanted. He told me, hey, make sure you 37 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,080 go and hit all the three shifts. The warden told 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,039 me to do it. So if the warden told me 39 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,960 to do it, why wouldn't I go and do it? Question? 40 00:02:17,039 --> 00:02:21,560 Sure answer the warden. We sat down. He said that 41 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:24,000 these are the things that I want to happen. First, 42 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,960 I want to make sure walk through talk about make 43 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,400 sure the staff is aware indiscernible are doing this, this 44 00:02:30,439 --> 00:02:34,120 and this, and also I know that you have that. 45 00:02:34,439 --> 00:02:37,120 I put out an email, so I just didn't tell them. 46 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,759 What do you call that? Question? So you sent an 47 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,520 email to all the shoe Answer? Yeah, I did to 48 00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:48,879 all correctional services staff, and I think I still got it. 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,479 Question to all correctional Answer, yeah, I still got it. 50 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,599 Question did you ever provide that to anyone? Answer? Huh. 51 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,199 Question did you ever provide that to anyone? Answer? No, 52 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,680 they never asked for it. Question can you absolutely provide 53 00:03:05,719 --> 00:03:08,319 that to us? Answer? Yeah, I think I have one, 54 00:03:08,719 --> 00:03:10,479 and we can go to my office so I can 55 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,879 show you. I don't want you to think I will 56 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:16,199 bring it up for you. Question So would have this 57 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,319 Michael Thomas and Toven Nowell been on that email? Answer? 58 00:03:19,439 --> 00:03:22,960 Tova would have been because she's a correctional officer, but 59 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:29,240 not Thomas. Answer okay, question you understand. Question okay, but 60 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,240 I thought that everyone was considered a correctional officer. That's 61 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,479 not the case. Answer As far as when emergencies happen, 62 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,360 When emergencies happen, regardless of what your discipline is, we 63 00:03:40,439 --> 00:03:44,159 all come together. It means you go into everyone. When 64 00:03:44,199 --> 00:03:48,080 you came in the GOP, everyone was given the opportunity 65 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,400 that when you went through correctional those tactics that you 66 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,879 learned in Glencoe. It was about being a correctional officer. 67 00:03:55,719 --> 00:03:58,759 It wasn't about being a dentist or being a chaplain 68 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:05,439 or whatever. It's about correctional principles. Question. Okay, answer introduction 69 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,840 to correctional principles question. But as far as there was 70 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:11,439 an email that just the people that are working in 71 00:04:11,479 --> 00:04:17,600 the correctional officer answer yes, and I can show that 72 00:04:17,639 --> 00:04:22,720 to you. Question perfect answer, I have that question. Awesome 73 00:04:23,199 --> 00:04:26,120 answer because it wasn't just me just talking to them. 74 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,040 I put out guidance and I keep putting out guidance. 75 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,040 It wasn't like it was. One time I talked about 76 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,319 inmates being placed on suicide watch. I talked about inmates 77 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,560 putting on there. What is the difference between close supervision? 78 00:04:39,759 --> 00:04:43,959 What is it suicide watch? Question? Psychological observation answer and 79 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,759 psychological There's no such thing as psychological, and that you know, 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,079 there's no such thing. It's called close supervision. There's no 81 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:56,560 such thing as psychological. That was an mcc thing. Question. Okay, 82 00:04:56,879 --> 00:04:59,680 answer that they made up. So it's a close supervision 83 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,319 suicide watch. Question. So you have at least one email though, 84 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:08,279 that you sent to correctional officers saying that Epstein needed 85 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,879 a cell mate. Answer. I wasn't saying Epstein. But I 86 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,519 do have two. I think I gave one email and 87 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,319 one memorandum that I wrote for the five eighty three 88 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,680 packet for Epstein. I think you may have that. I 89 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,279 don't know if you have it. And then I have 90 00:05:23,519 --> 00:05:26,680 wrote another one about the importance of doing thirty minute 91 00:05:26,759 --> 00:05:31,120 rounds in the special housing unit. Question. Okay, yeah, if 92 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,680 you can after we're done, either you can send it 93 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,120 to me or you can give it to me. Answer. 94 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,800 I can give it to you. I'm going to give 95 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:43,199 you a copy. Question perfect, all right? Then, just I 96 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,560 think there's a few more like I don't know how 97 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,959 to spell his name, pronounce his name. But again, that 98 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,439 was another non custody guy, so redacted I believe worked. 99 00:05:52,639 --> 00:05:55,360 He was a material handler. I think redacted was a 100 00:05:55,399 --> 00:05:59,879 material handler, so he's not correctional services anymore. However, did 101 00:05:59,879 --> 00:06:02,600 that I have a background. No, I'm sorry. Redacted went 102 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,720 to R and D, so he was receiving and discharge. 103 00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:10,560 So these staff members worked as correctional officers, came up 104 00:06:10,759 --> 00:06:15,079 as correctional officers, but their daily assignment, their job descriptions changed. 105 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,879 They're whatever, they're non custody. Question. So the people that 106 00:06:19,959 --> 00:06:22,600 worked in the shoe and the correctional officers, they were 107 00:06:22,639 --> 00:06:25,120 aware of it, but people that had different functions in 108 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,680 the facility they may not have been. Answer. May not 109 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,680 have been because I wouldn't talk to them on a 110 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,600 daily basis. Question And what about do you know if 111 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,639 there was any kind of like post it notes or 112 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,519 sticky notes? Answer? Yeah, I had created It was one 113 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,480 because I said orange card inmates. I said, make sure 114 00:06:43,519 --> 00:06:47,600 these particular inmates inmates high visibility inmates. And I think 115 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,959 I talked about that that the other inmate their card 116 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,120 should be orange and those would be our high visibility 117 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,560 inmates that you and I think I got an email 118 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,360 about that too, about the high visibility inmates inside the unit. 119 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,600 You should take special care to ensure these inmates are 120 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,279 observed when you're doing your rounds. Question anything though about 121 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:11,079 the actual cellmate requirement though? Do you know if there 122 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,600 was any kind of like sticky note or any kind 123 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,959 of post it about saying hey, make sure that Epstein answer. 124 00:07:18,079 --> 00:07:21,480 I can't remember. But like I said, I was putting 125 00:07:21,519 --> 00:07:24,399 out a lot of guidance, you know, coming from and 126 00:07:24,519 --> 00:07:26,639 you know, coming from the warden and things that I 127 00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:29,879 would have thought that was beneficial to the correctional officers. 128 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,360 I was just putting that guidance out. I kept putting 129 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,800 it out, you know, like I said, you know, I'm 130 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,399 going to be talking to them on putting out the guidance. 131 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,519 But if they don't open their email and don't read it. Question, 132 00:07:42,839 --> 00:07:45,399 what about some of the people who are acting lieutenants 133 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:53,279 somebody like a redacted answer? Redacted? Sorry, so redacted? She 134 00:07:53,319 --> 00:07:57,279 would work correctional post question, so she would not have 135 00:07:57,319 --> 00:08:02,279 known that answer. She would have known. Question should she 136 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:06,040 have known that Epstein had to have a second cellmate? Answer? 137 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,240 It's common knowledge that you're supposed to do the thirty 138 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,560 minute rounds question uh huh answer and be vigilant. But however, 139 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,240 would she know necessarily that those protocols were placed on 140 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,680 Jeffrey Epstein, that he was supposed to have a SELLI 141 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:22,279 I mean, you see an orange card if you see 142 00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:25,600 the guidance. I believe I had put something together that 143 00:08:25,879 --> 00:08:29,000 was on the OIC's desk. On the desk talked about 144 00:08:29,319 --> 00:08:32,519 the high visibility inmates and Jeffrey Epstein was a high 145 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,240 visibility inmate. Question but is it understood that a high 146 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,960 visibility inmate like that needs a cell mate? Answer yes, 147 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,320 question okay, so you're saying make sure you're doing rounds. 148 00:08:44,639 --> 00:08:48,000 But it's also understood if it's a high visibility cell mate, 149 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,879 they need a cell mate at all times. Answer yes, 150 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,320 question okay, And did they all understand that? Answer yes, 151 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,840 question all right, and to include Thomas, he cuts some 152 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,320 I don't know. How about Noel is the next question? Answer? 153 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,399 Because they are not custody and I don't believe I 154 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,080 had that conversation with them. I'm not going to lie 155 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,759 I didn't have the conversation with them. Redacted. What about 156 00:09:13,879 --> 00:09:20,320 some of these lieutenants, like acting lieutenant like redacted? Answer redacted? Oh, 157 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:23,960 redacted was in corectional service and she, I believe during 158 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:30,120 the time was working on attorney conference. Question Yes, answer, 159 00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:33,440 she was in correctional service. She was working an attorney 160 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,120 conference during that time, so redacted. I actually promoted her 161 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:40,480 to acting lieutenant. She was getting paid as a lieutenant, 162 00:09:40,639 --> 00:09:44,919 so yes, she would have known question, So she should 163 00:09:44,919 --> 00:09:49,080 have or would have or should have answer yes. Question, 164 00:09:49,399 --> 00:09:52,039 how about some of the other ones that were on 165 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:57,200 you said redacted? Obviously you already said you specifically directed him. 166 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,039 Answer if he Yeah, I brought him in the office 167 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:04,440 and we spoke. Yes. Question do you know how and 168 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,480 I think you said that you spoke to him on 169 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,480 multiple occasions? Is that correct? And made sure that he 170 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,080 knew and made sure that Epstein needed a cellmate? Answer yes, 171 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:20,679 question Okay, what about redacted? Answer redacted, I had conversations. Well, 172 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,480 I don't believe I had a conversation with her. Question 173 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,120 should she have known based upon the orange cart Answer yes, 174 00:10:27,639 --> 00:10:29,919 she should have known because I put the guidance out 175 00:10:29,919 --> 00:10:34,080 through the email. Question Now the guidance though set about 176 00:10:34,639 --> 00:10:37,240 you said it talked about rounds as opposed to actual 177 00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:43,360 cellmate requirement though correct answer, I can't remember. Question okay, 178 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,519 answer you know, I don't know because, like I said, again, 179 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,960 I put out a lot of guidance. Answer yeah, question, 180 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,039 but I know the people who I actually spoke to 181 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,720 as far as like, hey, you the OIC, I mean 182 00:10:55,879 --> 00:10:58,759 you're the Lieutenant of Shoe. That means you're working day 183 00:10:58,799 --> 00:11:02,279 watch means means any movement happens on day watch, it 184 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,919 don't happen on morning watch in matro locked in their cells. 185 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:11,000 Question right answer, So anything day watch, evening watch, that 186 00:11:11,039 --> 00:11:14,960 shoe lieutenant should be aware. Question okay, and we'll get 187 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,759 into gets cut off. So that's why we would have 188 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,159 had the conversation when he and I had that conversation. 189 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,480 Question and do you remember so you recall specifically talking 190 00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:29,159 with them, do you? And this is I want to 191 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,039 know about aside from what they should have known, specific 192 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:37,559 conversations with redacted answer. I can't remember about redacted. I 193 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,799 believe it's internal. I came into the lieutenant's office and 194 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,960 we spoke about it, so as a collective, the lieutenants 195 00:11:44,039 --> 00:11:47,080 were made aware. I can't say I remember that I 196 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,600 would come into the lieutenants and we would talk about Epstein. 197 00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:53,200 So again, between the guidance that was put out through 198 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,600 the emails and the conversations that I would have just 199 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,799 had encountering lieutenants. Yes, but however I can tell you 200 00:12:00,879 --> 00:12:05,480 for sure I had a conversation with redacted answer and 201 00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:08,200 would have redacted made sure that those people working in 202 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,480 the Shoe knew this information. Answer. He would have as 203 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,360 a lieutenant in charge, Yes, he should have made sure 204 00:12:15,519 --> 00:12:18,919 somebody like somebody that's not in there, although Tavin Nowell, 205 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,279 I think that was her quarterly post, or at least 206 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,919 she was in there a lot of times question uh 207 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,720 huh answer leading up to it, So I should have 208 00:12:28,759 --> 00:12:32,600 made sure that she knew because she worked evening watch. 209 00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:37,000 Question what about Michael Thomas. Answer Michael Thomas, probably not, 210 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,840 but by him working in the unit, he would know. 211 00:12:40,279 --> 00:12:42,679 I mean, you would say, okay if he's working on 212 00:12:42,799 --> 00:12:45,600 evening watch or morning watch. There was no need to 213 00:12:45,639 --> 00:12:48,559 move inmates. There was no showers that should have been 214 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,960 taking place. There was no earrings, no medical nothing. We 215 00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:55,240 had to open up a self for for those inmates. 216 00:12:56,039 --> 00:13:00,080 Answer or question okay answer, So most of those in 217 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,200 mates was done on day watch. There was no reason 218 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,879 for them to move these guys question okay, All right, folks, 219 00:13:07,879 --> 00:13:09,759 we're gonna wrap up right here and in the next 220 00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:12,159 episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where 221 00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:15,080 we left off. All the information that goes with this 222 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,919 episode can be found in the description box.