1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,080 In this episode, we're going to pick up where we 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,679 left off with the Johanna Schoberg deposition, So let's just 4 00:00:10,679 --> 00:00:15,119 get right back to it. McCauley, during this trip to 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,559 New York, did you have to perform any work when 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,719 you were at the New York House? Answer? I performed 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,120 at least one massage that I recall. McCauley. And who 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,839 instructed you to give that massage? Answer Jeffrey McCauley. And 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,439 can you describe for me what happened during that massage? Answer? 10 00:00:32,679 --> 00:00:34,840 Near the end, he asked me to rub his nipples 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,439 while he masturbated. McCauley. And did that take place? Answer? 12 00:00:39,679 --> 00:00:43,960 It did not, McCauley, and why not? Answer? I was 13 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,640 not comfortable with it, and so I left the room. McCauley. 14 00:00:47,679 --> 00:00:49,679 Did you have any did you say anything to him 15 00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:54,399 before leaving the room? Answer? I believe I said I'm done. McCauley. 16 00:00:54,479 --> 00:00:57,799 Do you recall what his reaction was to that? Answer? 17 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,479 I do not at the time, at the moment, do not. McCauley. 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,959 Do you recall later what to this? Johanna interrupts, Well, 19 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,439 we had a conversation a little later talking about his expectations, 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,280 and that was the conversation where he said that the 21 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,480 next trip they were going on was to the island 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,439 in the Virgin Islands, and I would be invited. However 23 00:01:17,519 --> 00:01:22,120 there would be quote sex stuff happening. McCauley, Can you 24 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:24,480 describe for me, Can you describe for me what the 25 00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:30,400 in New York where you massaged and what that looked like? Answer? 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,319 He had one room that was the massage room. It 27 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,560 was about the size of a spa room in a spa. 28 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,400 It had high ceilings, It had dark tapestry on the walls. 29 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,760 It was a very dark room. There was a very 30 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,439 large picture of a naked woman whom I don't recall. 31 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,519 That's all I remember, McCauley. In the New York home. 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,799 Did you observe photos around the house? Answer I don't recall. McCauley. 33 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,120 In the Palm Beach home that we were talking about earlier, 34 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,760 did you recall seeing photos in that? Answer yes, McCauley. 35 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,640 And do you recall seeing photos of naked females in 36 00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:09,560 that home? Answer yes, McCauley. Approximately, can you tell me 37 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,879 where you would see those in the home? Answer I 38 00:02:13,039 --> 00:02:16,000 definitely saw them in his bathroom, and I can't recall 39 00:02:16,039 --> 00:02:19,879 if they were in the main living areas. McCauley. Did 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,039 you see them in the stairwell up to the second 41 00:02:22,039 --> 00:02:26,479 story of the house. Answer I can't recall. McCauley. Do 42 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,960 you know who who the people were in those photos? 43 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,680 Were they familiar to you? Answer no, McCauley. Were you 44 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,319 in any of those photos? Answer at one point, yes, McCauley. 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:43,479 And were you naked in these photos? Answer topless? McCauley, 46 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,360 do you recall seeing any naked photos of Virginia Roberts 47 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,479 Answer I do not. McCauley, where did you go next 48 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,280 after the New York visit? Answer? I went to the 49 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,520 Virgin Islands. McCauley. And who told you that you would 50 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,439 be going to the Virgin Islands? Answer? He asked me 51 00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:01,520 if I wanted to go, and I said I would 52 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,680 still like to go. McCauley. And do you recall who 53 00:03:04,759 --> 00:03:09,319 you you went with to the Virgin Islands? Answer? I believe, well, 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,280 I know Virginia was with me, Glaine was there, Jeffrey, 55 00:03:12,479 --> 00:03:14,759 and there were two other women that I don't recall 56 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,520 their names. McCauley. Did you travel on Jeffrey's plane to 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,800 get to those islands. Answer yes, McCauley. I want to 58 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,080 show you again the flight log that you have there 59 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,599 in front of you. If you can flip to manager, 60 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,159 I'm going to object to the foundation once again. McCauley. 61 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,680 It's the same page that you were on. The date 62 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,520 is the eleventh answer yes, McCauley. Do you see the 63 00:03:37,599 --> 00:03:43,759 teb to tist there? Answer yes, Manager objection leading. The 64 00:03:43,879 --> 00:03:47,439 questioning is testifying now, McCauley. Can you please let me 65 00:03:47,439 --> 00:03:51,599 finish my question. McCauley, can you tell me who the 66 00:03:51,639 --> 00:03:54,000 initials are there that you see that we're on the 67 00:03:54,039 --> 00:04:01,439 plane manager objection, Foundation leading answer Jeffrey Epstein, Gallaine, Maxwell, 68 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,159 AP and p K are the two women. I do 69 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,000 not recall, Virginia Roberts and myself. McCauley. Do you recall 70 00:04:09,199 --> 00:04:11,599 how you flew back from the location in the US 71 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,039 Virgin Islands? Answer? They put me on a commercial flight. 72 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:18,240 I wanted to be home in time for easter. McCauley. 73 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:20,639 When you say they, do you recall who made those 74 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,600 arrangements for you? Answer? It could have been Glaine. McCauley. 75 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:27,959 Did you do you recall performing massages while you were 76 00:04:27,959 --> 00:04:32,000 in the US virgin Islands. Answer yes, McCauley, who was 77 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,560 involved in Was there more than one? Answer? Yes, I 78 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,680 massage Glaine at one point, and I massage Jeffrey. Virginia 79 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:44,199 and I both on the beach. McCauley. Were you dressed 80 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,959 during the massage that was on the beach? Answer yes, 81 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,360 bikini's probably most likely. McCauley. Do you recall where Virginia 82 00:04:52,439 --> 00:04:55,120 was wearing? Answer I believe she was wearing a bathing 83 00:04:55,199 --> 00:04:58,279 suit as well. McCauley, were you paid for the massage 84 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,199 on the beach with Virginia. Answer at the end of 85 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,920 before I left and flew home, Glaine gave me one 86 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,800 thousand dollars. Just to interject, that was their mo that 87 00:05:08,959 --> 00:05:11,720 was the hush money. Oh, they got paid. They were professionals. 88 00:05:11,879 --> 00:05:15,040 There are prostitutes. That was all part of the baked 89 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,720 in plan. Folks. McCauley, you mentioned that you massaged. You 90 00:05:19,759 --> 00:05:22,439 recall massage and Glaine on the trip to the USVII. 91 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,800 Do you recall where that took place? Answer? I don't 92 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,360 recall what days we were there, so McCauley, do you 93 00:05:29,399 --> 00:05:33,160 recall where it took place? Answer? I believe it was well, 94 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,040 either in my guest cottage or one of them. There 95 00:05:36,079 --> 00:05:38,839 were three guest houses set up that were all similar 96 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,480 that I was staying in Virginia, and I stayed in 97 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,560 one together, and it was either in there or in 98 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,680 another one that was identical. McCauley. And was that massage 99 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,600 performed with Virginia as well or by you alone? Answer? 100 00:05:54,759 --> 00:05:58,399 I don't recall, McCauley. Was there other females in the 101 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,040 USVII on that trip with you besides Virginia? Answer to 102 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,720 others McCauley, And do you recall who they were? Answer? 103 00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:10,120 I do not. McCauley. Did you ever see Glenn Maxwell 104 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:13,600 during that trip laying out by the pool? Answer? There 105 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,120 was one time where we were all by the pool, Yes, McCauley. 106 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,079 Was Glenn Maxwell ever nude or topless by the pool? Answer? 107 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,600 I don't recall. She was nude when she went swimming 108 00:06:24,639 --> 00:06:28,519 in the ocean. McCauley at that moment in the USVII home. 109 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,279 Did you observe any photos there of nude females? Answer? 110 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,360 I don't recall, McCauley. Besides Virginia, who you mentioned you 111 00:06:37,439 --> 00:06:40,639 observed to be young? Did you observe any other females that, 112 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,279 in your view, appeared to be essentially under the age 113 00:06:43,319 --> 00:06:47,759 of eighteen. Answer no, McCauley. Did you observe any females 114 00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:52,160 who you thought looked young younger than you? Answer no, McCauley. 115 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:54,800 Do you remember an individual by the name of or 116 00:06:54,879 --> 00:06:57,680 dacted that you met during the time with Jeffrey Epstein? 117 00:06:58,519 --> 00:07:03,839 Answer in Palm Beach McCauley, yes, Answer yes, McCauley. Did 118 00:07:03,879 --> 00:07:05,720 you observe her to be young when you met her? 119 00:07:06,199 --> 00:07:10,759 Menager Objection vague as to time, Johanna, All the women 120 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,480 were generally young. I did not know the ages really 121 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,759 of anyone there, so, McCauley. How many massages did Jeffrey 122 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:23,040 receive average in a day Manager Objection Foundation witness three 123 00:07:23,079 --> 00:07:26,600 a day. McCauley. Let me back up for a minute. 124 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,079 How long did you work for Jeffrey and Golaine Manager 125 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:34,800 Objection Leading and Foundation, Johanna. I believe it was five years, 126 00:07:34,839 --> 00:07:37,680 two thousand and one to two thousand and six, McCauley. 127 00:07:37,839 --> 00:07:41,399 And how many massages did Epstein receive per day on average? 128 00:07:41,839 --> 00:07:48,560 Manager Objection Foundation Johanna answers this question three, McCauley. Were 129 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,600 the massages performed by the same girl or different females 130 00:07:52,199 --> 00:07:58,279 answer different Manager objection Foundation McCauley, what did the females 131 00:07:58,279 --> 00:08:03,560 who perform the massages look like? Menager objection Foundation answer? 132 00:08:03,839 --> 00:08:06,279 They all look different. Some of them were ethnic, some 133 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:11,000 were blonde, some were short, some were tall, everyone was thin. McCauley. 134 00:08:11,519 --> 00:08:14,040 Were the girls who performed the massages young or old? 135 00:08:14,439 --> 00:08:18,560 Menager objection to the Foundation answer, I don't recall anyone 136 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,920 being old. McCauley. Do you recall anybody being over the 137 00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:28,199 age of, say, twenty five? Menager objection deform Yo wanna answers? Yeah, 138 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,759 I believe there was probably a few women that were 139 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,240 older than twenty five. Menager. I'm sorry. I get a 140 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,799 chance to object and then you can still answer. No 141 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:38,960 one is going to stop you from answering. I just 142 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,279 need to get the objection on the record in the 143 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,559 same way she needs to be able to talk before 144 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,440 you my apologies. I'm not trying to cut you off, 145 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,799 but I'm supposed to get it in before you answer. McCauley. 146 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,440 Did Jeffrey ever tell you he receives so many massages 147 00:08:54,519 --> 00:08:59,559 from so many different girls? Menager objection hearsay McCauley, you 148 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,080 can answer her. Answer, he explained to me that, in 149 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,879 his opinion, he needed to have three orgasms a day. 150 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,879 It was biological like eating. McCauley. And what was your 151 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:14,000 reaction to that statement? Answer? I thought it was a 152 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,480 little crazy McCauley. And what did you do you recall 153 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,919 what when you observe the other females giving massages? Do 154 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,159 you recall what they would dress like? Did they wear 155 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,759 scrubs or did they typically wear normal clothes? Answer? Normal 156 00:09:27,799 --> 00:09:32,639 clothes menager, objection leading. McCauley. Do you believe that, from 157 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,759 your observations, Maxwell and Epstein were a boyfriend and girlfriend? 158 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,759 Answer initially, yes, McCauley. Did Maxwell ever share with you 159 00:09:42,159 --> 00:09:45,200 whether it bothered her that Jeffrey had so many girls around? 160 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:52,120 Menager objection leading answer no, actually the opposite. McCauley. What 161 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,080 did she say? Answer she let me know that she 162 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,639 was she would not be able to please him as 163 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,960 much as he needed, and that is why there were 164 00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:03,639 other girls around. McCauley. Did there ever come a time 165 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,759 did you ever take a photography class in school? Answer yes, McCauley. 166 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,519 And did there ever come a time when Maxwell offered 167 00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:17,320 to buy you a camera? Answer yes, Manager, objection leading 168 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,039 the witness. McCauley. Did Maxwell ever offer to buy you 169 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:26,080 a camera? Manager objection leading witness. Yes, McCauley. Was there 170 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,440 anything you were supposed to do in order to get 171 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,559 the camera manager objection leading Johanna, I did not know 172 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,840 that there were expectations of me to get the camera 173 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,039 until after she had purchased the camera for me and 174 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,679 I was over there giving Jeffrey massage. I did not 175 00:10:41,879 --> 00:10:45,399 know that she was in possession of the camera until later. 176 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,679 She told me call me after I had left and said, 177 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,440 I have the camera for you, but you cannot receive 178 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,480 it yet because you came here and didn't finish your job, 179 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,879 and I had to finish it for you. McCauley. And 180 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,320 did you what did you understand her to me? Answer? 181 00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:04,039 She was implying that I did not get Jeffrey off, 182 00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:07,440 and so she had to do it. McCauley. And when 183 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,759 you say get Jeffrey off, do you mean bringing him 184 00:11:09,799 --> 00:11:15,039 to orgasm? Answer yes, McCauley. Did Glaine ever describe to 185 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,840 you what types of girls Jeffrey likes? Answer? Model types. McCauley. 186 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,159 Did Glaine ever talk to you about how you should 187 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,639 act around Jeffrey. Answer, she just had a conversation with 188 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,039 me that I should always act grateful. McCauley. Did Jeffrey 189 00:11:29,039 --> 00:11:32,639 ever tell you that he took a girl's virginity? Answer? 190 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,720 He did not tell me. He told he told a 191 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,559 friend of mine. McCauley. And what do you recall about that, 192 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:44,519 manager objection hearsay Foundation Schoberg. He wanted to have a 193 00:11:44,519 --> 00:11:48,120 friend of mine come out who was a cardio kickboxer instructor. 194 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,679 She was a physical trainer, and so I brought her 195 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,879 over to the house and he told my friend Rachel 196 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,480 that he said, you see that girl over there laying 197 00:11:55,519 --> 00:11:58,399 by the pool, she was nineteen, and then he said, 198 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,120 I just took her virginity, and my friend Rachel was mortified. McCauley. 199 00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:05,919 Based on what you know, did Maxwell know what the 200 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,759 type of massages Jeffrey was getting typically involved sexual acts? 201 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:17,080 Manager objection Foundation leading answer, Yes, McCauley. What was Maxwell's 202 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:22,320 main job with respect to Jeffrey Manager objection to the Foundation, Johanna, Well, 203 00:12:22,399 --> 00:12:25,720 beyond companionship. Her job, as it related to me, was 204 00:12:25,799 --> 00:12:28,360 to find other girls that would perform massages for him 205 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,840 and herself. McCauley. Did Maxwell ever refer to the girls 206 00:12:32,879 --> 00:12:36,399 in a particular way. Answer. At one point when we 207 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,720 were on the island, we were all watching a movie 208 00:12:38,919 --> 00:12:43,360 and she called us her children. McCauley. Did anybody respond 209 00:12:43,399 --> 00:12:46,879 to that? Answer? I don't recall, McCauley. Did she ever 210 00:12:46,919 --> 00:12:50,840 refer to herself as a mother? Answer yes, like a 211 00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:54,399 mother hen McCauley, do you recall who was present at 212 00:12:54,399 --> 00:12:58,120 the time she made that comment about children? Answer? This 213 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,759 was the second trip that I took to the Virgin Islands, 214 00:13:00,759 --> 00:13:03,399 So no, I don't want to speak, you know, incorrectly. 215 00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:07,360 I can't remember. I can't really remember. McCauley. Have you 216 00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:11,960 ever met David Copperfield? Answer yes, McCauley. And do you 217 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,480 recall when you initially met him? Answer yes, McCauley. Can 218 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:19,600 you tell me what that was? Answer sure. Someone called 219 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,159 me from the house and said that he would be 220 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,320 there and if I wanted to come at dinner then 221 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,720 I can meet him. So when I arrived at the house, 222 00:13:25,879 --> 00:13:28,480 he wasn't there yet, but I waited with I believe 223 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,279 Sarah Kellen, and there was another girl there which I 224 00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:33,879 had never met and had never seen. She seemed young 225 00:13:33,919 --> 00:13:36,200 to me, and I asked her what school she went to? 226 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,360 Kind of prodding to see if she went to one 227 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,200 of the area colleges. And I did not recognize the 228 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,840 name of the school, and so I thought she could 229 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,559 be younger than college age. But I had to assume 230 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,080 for my own sanity that she was a daughter of 231 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,679 one of his friends. McCauley. But it was possible she 232 00:13:52,919 --> 00:13:55,840 was the school. Is it possible that the school she 233 00:13:55,879 --> 00:14:00,279 referred to was a high school? Answer, yes, McCauley. And 234 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,840 what happened at this dinner? If anything? Answer? He did 235 00:14:03,879 --> 00:14:07,480 some magic tricks. McCauley. Did you observe David Copperfield to 236 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:12,639 be a friend of Jeffrey Epstein's answer Yes, McCauley. Did 237 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:17,720 Copperfield ever discuss Jeffrey's involvement with young girls with you? Answer? 238 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,080 He questioned me if I was aware that girls were 239 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,879 getting paid to find other girls? So again, David Copperfield knew, 240 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,440 But none of these other so called smartest men in 241 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,679 the room had any idea. Huh, I'm calling bullshit from 242 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,000 here to next Wednesday. McCauley. Did he ever tell you 243 00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:36,840 any of the specifics of that Answer? No, McCauley. Did 244 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,879 he say whether they were teenagers or anything along those lines. 245 00:14:40,759 --> 00:14:45,639 Answer he did not manager objection, leading calls for hearsay. 246 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,240 All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right there 247 00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:50,679 with this episode, and in the next episode we'll pick 248 00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:53,600 up where we left off. All of the information that 249 00:14:53,639 --> 00:14:57,120 goes with this episode can be found in the description box.