Speaker 1: Enjoy these back to back classic Forbidden Knowledge News episodes. Today,
Speaker 1: I want to welcome back to the show writer Lee.
Speaker 1: He is a filmmaker and producer and host of Raised
Speaker 1: by Giants podcast, which provides a platform for researchers, spiritual teachers,
Speaker 1: authors and experiencers to come together and communicate their studies,
Speaker 1: bringing new understandings of life and the universe. Writer, welcome back.
Speaker 2: How you doing doing great?
Speaker 3: Chris?
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me on. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Sir, welcome back. It's great to have you. It's been
Speaker 1: a little while looking forward to this one. We're gonna
Speaker 1: be talking about you and Jay Widener's latest film, A
Speaker 1: Clockwork Shining, and this presents the possibility that Stanley Kubrick
Speaker 1: may have intentionally altered the script from being about Jack
Speaker 1: Nicholson and his family acting as caretakers to a haunted
Speaker 1: hotel to possibly exposing aspects of the CIA MK Ultra
Speaker 1: mind control program. Now, The Shining was definitely one of
Speaker 1: my favorite movies growing up. It still is, and I
Speaker 1: never really even thought about it remotely in this way.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna have to go back and watch it
Speaker 1: again very closely. This is gonna be very interesting. Looking
Speaker 1: forward to getting your insights into this. It's been a
Speaker 1: while since you've been on. Remind the audience a little
Speaker 1: bit about yourself and let them know where they can
Speaker 1: find you.
Speaker 3: You can find me on Raised by Giants, on YouTube
Speaker 3: and Indian all podcast platforms. You can reach out to
Speaker 3: me personally on Twitter x Raised by Giants eight and
Speaker 3: on Instagram at Raised by a Giants pod.
Speaker 4: And yeah, this movie was really.
Speaker 3: A passion project because, as you know, Chris, this was
Speaker 3: the first movie that I wanted to do. I wanted
Speaker 3: to do this one before jfk X, me and Jers
Speaker 3: first documentary, and we decided to do JFKX first, and
Speaker 3: which is a good thing because I got to cut
Speaker 3: my teeth on you know, a different kind of documentary
Speaker 3: before we did this one.
Speaker 4: Because this one.
Speaker 3: Required a lot of a lot more work. I worked
Speaker 3: on this one for like six months. And it's a
Speaker 3: really big passion project. And there's so many different theories
Speaker 3: surrounding the Shining. I mean people have dissected the Shining
Speaker 3: over and over and over again. I mean you can
Speaker 3: get on YouTube and just like type in Shining theories
Speaker 3: and you can watch for hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 3: And that was the thing with me was when I
Speaker 3: was watching it, I was like, what can I find
Speaker 3: within this movie that people haven't already seen because they've
Speaker 3: there's theories that that it's all inside Jack's head, that
Speaker 3: it's all inside Windy's It's a crazy amount of theories.
Speaker 3: And I'm watching it and I'm seeing all these continuity
Speaker 3: rors that a lot of people have already pointed out
Speaker 3: within the movie. The Shining is probably the one movie
Speaker 3: that has the most continuity airs out of any other movie,
Speaker 3: and we show a lot of them in our movie
Speaker 3: At Clockwork Shining, which is available on Amazon Prime and
Speaker 3: on Apple TV if you can't get it in the
Speaker 3: country that you're from, which is only available in the
Speaker 3: UK and the United States right now, but if you
Speaker 3: can get Apple TV you can also watch it. We
Speaker 3: show a lot of the connuity airs within The Shining
Speaker 3: in our movie. One of the ones is the sticker
Speaker 3: disappearing on Danny's door, the carpet changing when Danny stands
Speaker 3: up in the hallway, a chair disappears behind Jack. Light
Speaker 3: switches just kind of you know, go missing. There's a
Speaker 3: light switches underneath the picture before Jack walks into Almon's
Speaker 3: office in the beginning of the movie. Later on, when
Speaker 3: Jack walks into the office to destroy the radio to
Speaker 3: prevent Danny and Wendy from leaving the mountain from leaving
Speaker 3: the hotel, the light switch was gone. There's another one
Speaker 3: that there's a light switch underneath the storage room when
Speaker 3: Hollerin is giving Wendy and Danny a tour of the
Speaker 3: hotel and he's like, here is the storage room. And
Speaker 3: which we have a thing in our documentary that I
Speaker 3: don't think anyone has really ever picked up on, is
Speaker 3: that Hollerin doesn't really seem like he says storage room.
Speaker 3: It sounds like he says story room. Now, this is
Speaker 3: the story room. And we show that in the documentary,
Speaker 3: which is really interesting because from that point in the film,
Speaker 3: the Shining, that's when things really start to pick up
Speaker 3: and take a really dark turn within the movie. That's
Speaker 3: when you know Grady is pretty much telling Jack like
Speaker 3: that he needs to eliminate Wendy and Danny. Before it
Speaker 3: was kind of like persuasion.
Speaker 4: He was kind of like, you know.
Speaker 3: You need to correct them, so just like I corrected
Speaker 3: my two daughters, blah blah. It's a horrible impression, but
Speaker 3: you get the point, and there's a light switch that's
Speaker 3: it's either an outlet or a light switch on beside
Speaker 3: the door, and then later on when Wendy is carrying
Speaker 3: Jack's body into the storage room, the light switch is gone.
Speaker 3: And there's a few other ones that I kind of
Speaker 3: forgot to put in the movie, like in the very beginning,
Speaker 3: which is the establishing shot of the Overlook Hotel, which
Speaker 3: was filmed the Timberline Lodge in Oregon, some of the
Speaker 3: exterior shots. The rest of it was filmed in England
Speaker 3: on sets, but the first establishing shot you don't see
Speaker 3: Amaze in the background, but later on, obviously there's Amaze
Speaker 3: in the background. So there's so much to this film,
Speaker 3: and we don't explicitly say it in the movie, but
Speaker 3: it seems as if Kubrick is putting in these continuity
Speaker 3: errors on purpose, because that's been the question for a
Speaker 3: really long time with these people that have researched the
Speaker 3: Shining over and over and over again, and it's talked
Speaker 3: about all these theories are like why are these continuity
Speaker 3: eras there? They don't make any sense, especially when it
Speaker 3: comes to Stanley Kubrick being a perfectionist, and you know,
Speaker 3: being a master filmmaker and wanting everything to be perfect
Speaker 3: within his movies, it seems odd that there would be
Speaker 3: so many of these continuity errors within the film. And
Speaker 3: what we kind of propose within the movie at Clockwork
Speaker 3: Shining is that Kubrick is purposefully putting these continuity errors
Speaker 3: in there to make the audience question their reality, just
Speaker 3: as Jack is also questioning his reality within the movie.
Speaker 3: So it's not only in an experiment. And that's subliminally
Speaker 3: because the first watch there, you don't really notice these
Speaker 3: continuity errors, but they're hitting you subconsciously. And that's really
Speaker 3: what we don't explicitly say that, but that's something that
Speaker 3: the audience needs to put two and two together on
Speaker 3: while they're watching our movie, while they're watching our documentary.
Speaker 3: And that's one of the things that I love the
Speaker 3: most about Stanley Kubrick is not only that he is
Speaker 3: able to you know, not only is he a great
Speaker 3: filmmaker and tells great stories, well he did tell us
Speaker 3: great stories. He's been passed away, but that he doesn't
Speaker 3: give the entire movie away in the exposition of the movie.
Speaker 3: That's where a lot of movies ruined. Themselves. Nowadays, they
Speaker 3: give everything away within the dialogue of the movie, and
Speaker 3: that leads to no mystery surrounding what you're watching. And
Speaker 3: that's the opposite of what Stanley Kubrick was trying to
Speaker 3: do with really all of his movies. And that's why
Speaker 3: he avoided doing interviews as well, because he didn't want
Speaker 3: to tell the people that were listening exactly what the
Speaker 3: movie was about. He wanted people to put two and
Speaker 3: two together on their own and create their own theories
Speaker 3: and their own ideas surrounding his working and surrounding the
Speaker 3: movies that he made.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of Stanley Kubrick, you have films like Eyes
Speaker 1: Wide Shut, a Clockwork Orange, and these are somewhat conspiratorial
Speaker 1: topics that are covered in these films. And you have
Speaker 1: discovered some interesting things about Stanley Kubrick himself through research
Speaker 1: for this film, including possible intelligence ties. Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yes, we actually did a you know, we didn't go
Speaker 3: so heavy on Stanley Kubrick. There's a lot of things
Speaker 3: that we could have put in there that would not
Speaker 3: have shined a really good light on Stanley Kubrick, but
Speaker 3: we chose not to really put any A lot of
Speaker 3: those in there because it's really a lot of speculation
Speaker 3: and theorizing when it comes to the types of things
Speaker 3: that Stanley Kubrick may or may not have been doing
Speaker 3: behind closed doors. But we do have a document in
Speaker 3: the movie at Clockwork Shining where it shows that he
Speaker 3: is being looked at for some unknown governmental project with
Speaker 3: four other filmmakers, and in the document it says that
Speaker 3: Kubrick is being looked at and he's the most promising
Speaker 3: out of all of these filmmakers. And Kubrick also lived
Speaker 3: in la for a period of time with his uncle,
Speaker 3: Martin Prevlaire. And so then we also bring in Lookout
Speaker 3: Mountain Air Force Base, which I think is a really
Speaker 3: important part of the documentary because there used to be
Speaker 3: a hotel that set on the grounds of where the
Speaker 3: Lookout Mountain Air Force Base was. And if people weren't
Speaker 3: familiar with Lookout Mountain Air Force Base, it was basically
Speaker 3: a studio. It was a military Air Force studio where
Speaker 3: they would shoot a lot of films and more films
Speaker 3: that were ever made in Hollywood up until that point,
Speaker 3: which is really staggering, a lot of them are classified.
Speaker 3: People had top secret clearance for the place Marilyn Monroe
Speaker 3: had top secret clearance, Ronald Reagan, James Stewart, Carrie Grant,
Speaker 3: a lot of these famous big time actors had top
Speaker 3: secret clearance, and no one really knows what they were
Speaker 3: doing up there. And but that is the place where
Speaker 3: the atomic test footage was shot. That's where, but which
Speaker 3: was done on models. They weren't actually filming a nuclear
Speaker 3: bomb dropping and exploding. I mean, people are familiar with that,
Speaker 3: people who already know about that, but it's just, you know,
Speaker 3: they don't know where it was filmed in that it
Speaker 3: was you know, done on little tiny sets and little
Speaker 3: tiny models, because like, you know, the first thing that
Speaker 3: gives that a way that it's not a real atomic
Speaker 3: bomb is like, how does the camera get destroyed? You know,
Speaker 3: you're telling me that this atomic bomb destroys an entire
Speaker 3: house and all the surrounding areas, but it doesn't destroy
Speaker 3: the camera.
Speaker 4: That give me a break.
Speaker 3: It was all filmed at Lookout Mountain Air Force Studio,
Speaker 3: but there was a hotel that's set there before the
Speaker 3: Air Force brought in and made their military base there,
Speaker 3: which had a lot of film studios, recording studios, had
Speaker 3: a nuclear bunker underneath it a helicopter pad. It was
Speaker 3: like a state of the art military base, and just
Speaker 3: so happens to be positioned directly on top of Laurel Canyon,
Speaker 3: which is where all these famous Hollywood people lived in
Speaker 3: the sixties.
Speaker 4: But there used to be.
Speaker 3: A hotel that's set there that was called Lookout Mountain Hotel,
Speaker 3: and we show it in our film how Lookout Mountain
Speaker 3: Hotel looked very similar to the Overlook Hotel within Stanley
Speaker 3: Kubrick's to Shining and Lookout Mountain Hotel in Laurel Canyon
Speaker 3: burnt to the ground, and in the sequel to The Shining,
Speaker 3: Doctor Sleep, the Lookout Overlook Hotel well burners of the ground.
Speaker 3: So it's like all these coincidences are just kind of
Speaker 3: like adding up here. And there's so many things that,
Speaker 3: I mean, there's there's so many theories about what I mean.
Speaker 3: Jay Weiner basically created the whole you know, idea and
Speaker 3: the theory that Stanley Kubrick's The Shining was a confession
Speaker 3: for faking the moon landing, and he does provide pretty
Speaker 3: good evidence for that, with Danny standing up in the
Speaker 3: hallway the carpet looking like the Apollo eleven launch pad
Speaker 3: him wearing the Apollo eleven shirt, him going into room
Speaker 3: two thirty seven, two hundred and thirty seven thousand miles
Speaker 3: away was what people thought that the was a distance
Speaker 3: between the Earth and the Moon at that time.
Speaker 4: So a lot of it makes.
Speaker 3: Sense, But when you read it through the lens of
Speaker 3: the things that we've discovered within the movie, it really
Speaker 3: takes a but it doesn't discount the other theory is
Speaker 3: that people have had about The Shining, because I think
Speaker 3: a lot of them are still correct. It's just an experiment.
Speaker 3: Stanley Kubrick is running an experiment. He's not only running
Speaker 3: an experiment while he's making the movie by rewriting the
Speaker 3: script as he's filming the movie. Nobody would ever do
Speaker 3: that ever, Like, why would you be rewriting a script
Speaker 3: while you're shooting the movie. That just causes a lot
Speaker 3: of problems and a lot of issues. But we theorize
Speaker 3: and posturized within the movie that you know Kubrick was
Speaker 3: kind of pushed to take The Shining by WARNERBA.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I was just about to say. You mentioned
Speaker 1: in the film that he was kind of forced to
Speaker 1: do the film, and it was very well known that
Speaker 1: he did not like Stephen King's work at all. You
Speaker 1: also mention how the first script he submitted was approved,
Speaker 1: but then he completely altered the entire thing as the
Speaker 1: film was being made.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a really big point that we make
Speaker 3: in the movie because Warner Brothers had had a really
Speaker 3: successful movie with The Actressist and William Freaking, which The
Speaker 3: Actressist is based off of the book and supposedly off
Speaker 3: of a true story, though that story has been debunked.
Speaker 3: That true story has been debunked several times. The person
Speaker 3: that was involved the movie was supposed to be about
Speaker 3: never even existed, so it's like the entire thing was
Speaker 3: just concocted in like a huge fabrication. But regardless, William
Speaker 3: Freaking directed the movie The Extrecist and it was a
Speaker 3: smash success. It was a really big success, and Warner
Speaker 3: Brothers was kind of like, hey, you know, we have this.
Speaker 3: You know, we have a pre published copy of Stephen
Speaker 3: King's The Shining you know, why don't you take that
Speaker 3: and you consider it doing it for your next film.
Speaker 3: Because he had just come off of Barry Lindon and
Speaker 3: Barry Linden lost a lot of money. It did not
Speaker 3: do well in theaters. It was not a critical success
Speaker 3: or an audience success, so they kind of Warner Brothers
Speaker 3: was kind of like, here, read this and see you know,
Speaker 3: kind of I don't think, really telling him that he
Speaker 3: has to do it, but kind of pushing him in
Speaker 3: that direction, because that's kind of how you know people do.
Speaker 3: They'll just kind of plan on a seed and be like, here,
Speaker 3: do this and go in this direction. And so he
Speaker 3: we theorized that it's highly likely that q Break wrote.
Speaker 5: A script for Warner Brothers that.
Speaker 3: Was completely different than the script that he was wanting
Speaker 3: to do, because he inevitably rewrote it, and that original
Speaker 3: script was more a keen to Stephen King's book The
Speaker 3: Shining with all the paranormal aspects of The Shining, and
Speaker 3: that's a big reason why Stephen King did not like it.
Speaker 3: But he didn't not see the things that we've seen
Speaker 3: and what this documentary is about, so he doesn't really
Speaker 3: understand it. And I feel like that if he did
Speaker 3: understand it, he would have a change of attitude, which
Speaker 3: he has kind of changed his perspective over the years,
Speaker 3: probably because Warner Brothers ended up giving him a large
Speaker 3: amount of money to shut up about it. Because all
Speaker 3: he was doing was trashing it. He was like, you know,
Speaker 3: the only thing I liked about Stanley Kubrick's The Shining
Speaker 3: was Jack Nicholson's performance.
Speaker 5: The rest of it was garb.
Speaker 3: He's just not a direct quote, but that's just the
Speaker 3: way that he, you know, would talk about The Shining
Speaker 3: and interviews and Warner Brothers is kind of like, yo,
Speaker 3: you can't be you know, trash talk in our movie
Speaker 3: like you're doing. And so that was probably influence for
Speaker 3: Qubrick to change the script because it's been talked about
Speaker 3: how Kubrick didn't he was so sort of an atheist
Speaker 3: and he didn't really actually believe in the supernatural or
Speaker 3: believe in the paranoid. No, so it makes more sense
Speaker 3: that he wanted to make things realistic. And we do
Speaker 3: know that about Kubrick, that he wanted his sets and
Speaker 3: the actors and the things that he was doing a
Speaker 3: movie on to be hyper realistic. All the props that
Speaker 3: he would use in his movies weren't actually props. They
Speaker 3: were like real products. There were everything in the storage
Speaker 3: room in The Shining was all like real food. And
Speaker 3: so I think that that and there's so many other
Speaker 3: things that we point out within the movie, like Catcher
Speaker 3: and the Rye, Wendy is the first time we meet
Speaker 3: Wendy and Danny in the movie, she's reading a book
Speaker 3: by an intelligence officer named Ketcher in the Rye. The
Speaker 3: Catcher and the Rye has been reported to be a
Speaker 3: mind control Manchurian candidate MK ultra trigger for assassinations. Mark
Speaker 3: David Chapman John Hinckley were both it was both found
Speaker 3: on the scene those two your assassinations that happen within
Speaker 3: a year of the release of The Shining, which was
Speaker 3: John Lennon and the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. And
Speaker 3: then when you look at because Jack is really it
Speaker 3: seems like that he's like going into the he's spiraling
Speaker 3: and into these you know, types of delusions. But whenever
Speaker 3: you re whenever you watch The Shining again, and we
Speaker 3: put it in the documentary when the first ten minutes
Speaker 3: of The Shining between Olmen, Bill Watson and Jack Torrence
Speaker 3: within The Shining really kind of give away the entire
Speaker 3: plot of the movie between that interaction there, and a
Speaker 3: lot of people think that that's the most like boring
Speaker 3: part of the movie, but they're they're telling you that
Speaker 3: exactly what's going to happen, I mean Almand, which Alman
Speaker 3: looks identical to JFK in the movie, which, excuse me,
Speaker 3: I don't think was an accident. I think Stanley cu
Speaker 3: purposefully made him look like JFK. And the thing is
Speaker 3: that Olman is mentioning to Jack like, this isn't a
Speaker 3: physically demanding job. This is more of a psychological job
Speaker 3: because of the isolation, and a lot of people can't
Speaker 3: handle the isolation up here at the overlook during the
Speaker 3: winter season. And then he goes on to tell him
Speaker 3: about Charles Grady. And which is a really interesting thing
Speaker 3: that was just brought up on a show that I
Speaker 3: was doing previously, is that Charles Grady's name changes within
Speaker 3: the movie. First it's Charles Grady when Ollman is talking
Speaker 3: about it, but then when Jack and Grady are talking
Speaker 3: in the bathroom, his name is Delbert Grady. So very
Speaker 3: interesting there something that I didn't really catch another Mark
Speaker 3: Mark Dovlin. We just did an interview with Mark Devlin
Speaker 3: the other day, me and Jay Wiener, and Mark brought
Speaker 3: that up up, which I thought was really interesting. Maybe
Speaker 3: his full name is Charles Delbert Grady and then they
Speaker 3: just but they didn't say Charles Brady, but Olman says
Speaker 3: Charles Grady. Later on, he's referred to as Delbert Grady.
Speaker 3: It's just a really interesting thing that I don't think
Speaker 3: that a lot of people really notice while.
Speaker 1: We're on some of the strange symbolism in the film
Speaker 1: that may indicate that Kubrick is signaling to a mind
Speaker 1: control program. What else did you guys show in the
Speaker 1: film that may point to this.
Speaker 3: Well, there are several things that I saw that no
Speaker 3: one has ever seen before and has never talked about.
Speaker 4: Like when.
Speaker 3: Jack is in the Gold Room for the second time
Speaker 3: and he's talking to Lloyd, the bartender, and there's that
Speaker 3: party that's going on there with all the people. Whenever
Speaker 3: Jack gets up and he turns around before Grady spills
Speaker 3: the alcohol on Jack. There's a lady that walks past.
Speaker 3: It looks like she has a bloody handprint on her ass.
Speaker 3: Now people have disputed this and said that it's not
Speaker 3: really a bloody handprint, but it looks like a bloody handprint.
Speaker 3: So regardless if it's a part of the dress or
Speaker 3: not a part of the dress, it looks like a
Speaker 3: bloody handprint. Okay, so give me a break. So she's
Speaker 3: actually the person that bumps in to Grady that makes
Speaker 3: him spill the alcohol on Jack. Another thing that we
Speaker 3: seen was the first time that they were in the
Speaker 3: Gold Room when Olmen is giving a tour to Danny
Speaker 3: and not Danny, Jack and Wendy you know, around the
Speaker 3: overlook and they walk into the Gold Room. On the
Speaker 3: very back wall, there's a there's a Nazi swastika that's
Speaker 3: in the that's like kind of like blended into the
Speaker 3: back wall that no one has ever seen, which then
Speaker 3: correlates to what others have already pointed out about the shining,
Speaker 3: which is at the very end of the movie, when
Speaker 3: the far away picture fades to the close up picture
Speaker 3: of Jack, there's first blis second you can see a
Speaker 3: tiny little Hitler mustache on Jack's face, and also Jack
Speaker 3: is typing on a German typewriter. So there's a lot
Speaker 3: of you know, because with Project paper Clip in the
Speaker 3: German Nazis coming over into the United States and basically
Speaker 3: forming NASA and like all these other and basically taking
Speaker 3: the you know, experiments from the United States and then
Speaker 3: putting them, i mean from Germany and putting them into
Speaker 3: to the United States. Germany was among the first group
Speaker 3: of people that were trying to, you know, figure out
Speaker 3: mind control.
Speaker 4: So all of that kind of adds up.
Speaker 3: And then there's also not something that I seen, but
Speaker 3: that somebody else seem but they interpreted it wrong. Whenever
Speaker 3: Danny first sees the twins in the movie, there's a
Speaker 3: poster on the wall on the left hand side, and
Speaker 3: if you zoom in, underneath the poster says the word Monarch.
Speaker 3: And again I wasn't the first person to notice the poster,
Speaker 3: but everybody that has noticed it before relates it to
Speaker 3: Monarch Mountain in Colorado. They relate it to this minotaur,
Speaker 3: this quebriic stare none of them have ever mentioned before
Speaker 3: Monarch MK ultra mind control, which we have Kathy O'Brien,
Speaker 3: one of the probably the most credible survivor of Monarch
Speaker 3: MK ultra mind control in the movie, and she talks
Speaker 3: about her experiences. So when you add all of these
Speaker 3: things together with the psychic driving that is going on
Speaker 3: with Jack, Jack has been made to you know.
Speaker 4: He thinks, well, Wendy thinks that he's.
Speaker 3: You know, writing a novel this entire time, but he's
Speaker 3: really not writing a novel. It's one of the most
Speaker 3: famous scenes in the movie when Wendy comes into the
Speaker 3: lobbying and is looking through Jack's all of his you know,
Speaker 3: his work and all that, and she sees that he
Speaker 3: is He's just writing the same sentence over and over
Speaker 3: and over again. That is a form of psyche driving.
Speaker 3: That's an mk ultra technique that was done by Hugh
Speaker 3: and Cameron in Canada. That was one of the things
Speaker 3: that he was most famous for.
Speaker 4: And it's to.
Speaker 3: Put a certain phrase or idea or thought into somebody's
Speaker 3: head to make to convince them to do whatever they
Speaker 3: want them to do. And this is a real life
Speaker 3: manifestation because in nineteen sixty eight, when Sirhan Sirhan killed RFK,
Speaker 3: that exact same thing was done in real life. Sir
Speaker 3: Hans Sirhan's notebook was discovered and all it had written
Speaker 3: all over it was RFK must die RFK st RFK
Speaker 3: must die over and over and over again. So Jack
Speaker 3: within the Shining is writing out his own version of
Speaker 3: psychic driving, just like Sir Hans Sirhan was doing whenever
Speaker 3: before he killed RFK.
Speaker 1: In the film, you also discussed the Laurel Canyon scene
Speaker 1: and the mega music acts to come out of that scene,
Speaker 1: and possibly some sort of mind control programs that some
Speaker 1: of these mega artists may have been subjected to, along
Speaker 1: with the fact that many of them have family members
Speaker 1: or parents with very high military connections.
Speaker 3: It's not just some of them, it's all of them,
Speaker 3: all of them in the sixties. And that's the that's
Speaker 3: the shock and wild factor that I'm getting from a
Speaker 3: lot of people that have seen it because and I
Speaker 3: was even shocked and wild with it whenever I was
Speaker 3: first watching it, Chris, whenever I was making the movie,
Speaker 3: I was kind of shocked by it because I'm like, man,
Speaker 3: this really explains why that no matter how good you
Speaker 3: are at any given thing, no matter how great you
Speaker 3: could possibly be, it's more possible that you're never going
Speaker 3: to make it because you don't have the right connections.
Speaker 3: You don't have the right people behind you, you don't
Speaker 3: have the right people backing you. Your family is not
Speaker 3: a part of the right group of people. And that's
Speaker 3: what we find with so many of the musicians that
Speaker 3: came up in the sixties out of Laurel Canyon, all
Speaker 3: of their they all had a family member or mostly
Speaker 3: their dad, their father, like Jim Morrison's dad was responsible
Speaker 3: for the Gulf of Tonkin incident, false flag that got
Speaker 3: us in the Vietnam War that killed thousands of people.
Speaker 3: And that really makes sense because the way that Jim
Speaker 3: Morrison was acting, Jim Morrison was just like a loose cannon.
Speaker 3: He was just kind of doing whatever he wanted to do.
Speaker 3: And the reason that he was able to do that
Speaker 3: and anytime that he ever got arrested, he was immediately
Speaker 3: let out because he knew that any trouble that he
Speaker 3: would get into, he would automatically be gotten out of
Speaker 3: because his dad is this high up military naval intelligence officer.
Speaker 3: Several of them, Sharon Tate's dad was also a high
Speaker 3: up military intelligence officer. And we know that the CIA
Speaker 3: was responsible for you know, giving you know, making LSD
Speaker 3: popular and going through different channels to spread LSD into
Speaker 3: the public. And then they were responsible for creating that
Speaker 3: monster and then they were like okay, well, which was
Speaker 3: to completely destroy the anti war movement of that time.
Speaker 3: And then wheneverything's got out of with the hippie movement,
Speaker 3: they're like, oh no, what do we do? How do
Speaker 3: we get out of this scenario. Well, I know what
Speaker 3: we'll do. We'll just inject some serial killers and some
Speaker 3: murderers and crime into this whole thing and then make
Speaker 3: it to where people don't want to be a part
Speaker 3: of it anymore because it's associated with crime, destruction, murder,
Speaker 3: serial killers, and that's what they did with the Sharon
Speaker 3: Tate Manson murders.
Speaker 1: It's also speculated, not only in your film, but with
Speaker 1: many researchers that I've spoken with, that a lot of
Speaker 1: the famous serial killers from our recent history may have
Speaker 1: been subjects of some of these mind control programs.
Speaker 3: Yes, that is the hypothesis of which we bring them
Speaker 3: up in our book. Dave McGowan, you've done several wrote
Speaker 3: several books on this topic, Scenes Inside the Canyon, Weird,
Speaker 3: Scenes Inside the Canyon, and his other book which examines
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 5: Of the murders.
Speaker 4: What is it called a murder.
Speaker 2: Shit?
Speaker 3: I'm forgetting the name of it. Sorry, I got so
Speaker 3: much stuff in my head that I need to remember.
Speaker 3: But he wrote a book that pretty much examines all
Speaker 3: of the major serial killers and has discovered that they
Speaker 3: were more than likely CIA operations, And that makes a
Speaker 3: lot of sense as well. Because it used to be
Speaker 3: serial killers and then it turned into you know terrorism.
Speaker 3: We well, first it was you know, a domestic terrorism
Speaker 3: with things like the the.
Speaker 5: What's that big bombing Oklahoma City, oklahead.
Speaker 3: Of semi bombing, which was you know, a big domestic
Speaker 3: terrorism act. And then you know, during the nineties, there
Speaker 3: was this big push for you know, militias and anti
Speaker 3: government people, and then we get hit with nine to
Speaker 3: eleven and then it becomes about domestic terrorism, and then
Speaker 3: it becomes about outside terrorism. And now it's starting to
Speaker 3: flip back the opposite way again. Now it's starting to
Speaker 3: turn into domestic terrorism. But serial killers are starting to
Speaker 3: become super popular and hyper popular. Right now. I've watched
Speaker 3: three movies in the past week that are brand new
Speaker 3: movies that are about serial killers, and of course serial
Speaker 3: killer are documentary and true crime is soaring right now.
Speaker 3: It's heavily popular. And it makes sense that they were
Speaker 3: that they could have been responsible for the creation of
Speaker 3: at least a lot of these types of serial killers,
Speaker 3: and which stands the reason that they could do that
Speaker 3: and then just kind of sit back and be like, Okay,
Speaker 3: well somebody is going to come out and mimic this,
Speaker 3: So really they only have to push a couple of
Speaker 3: people in that kind of direction to commit these types
Speaker 3: of crimes, and then they just sit back and then
Speaker 3: other people are going to get that idea in their
Speaker 3: head they're going to go out and do it as well.
Speaker 3: So that's a little, you know, nibbet of how these
Speaker 3: things work and how agents work. They're not there to
Speaker 3: actually completely fabricate an entire thing to the point that
Speaker 3: every little detail is measured out. They're they're they're just
Speaker 3: there to push you in a certain direction, to plan
Speaker 3: a seed in order for you to capitalize that. They're
Speaker 3: they just capitalize on people that they want to be
Speaker 3: able to push into a certain direction.
Speaker 1: And uh, it's like these high impact psychological events, including
Speaker 1: serial killers, they have this effect on the collective consciousness
Speaker 1: and it causes the collective to be steered in certain
Speaker 1: directions and for certain agendas to be able to be
Speaker 1: pushed through just a little bit easier. You have to
Speaker 1: look at a bigger picture of a lot of this
Speaker 1: stuff to even be able to understand the possibility that
Speaker 1: this could be happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would really recommend Dave McGowan's.
Speaker 2: Books.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to find the name of that. We show
Speaker 3: it in our movie. It's like Program to Kill is
Speaker 3: the name of the book Program to Kill and Mark
Speaker 3: Devlin within the movie is a really big study on
Speaker 3: Dave McGowan's work. He actually went to Laurel Canyon with
Speaker 3: Greg carl Wood from the Higher Side Chats. They did
Speaker 3: like a whole episode of you know, traveling through Laurel
Speaker 3: Canyon and going up there and stuff, and me and
Speaker 3: Jay Widener actually went up in there too, and it's
Speaker 3: like it's kind of a dump up in there now.
Speaker 4: It's like it's not.
Speaker 3: A good place to be, which all all of la
Speaker 3: is kind of like a dump, Which is why we
Speaker 3: need to support independent filmmakers and people that are doing
Speaker 3: this independently. You know that now is our time to
Speaker 3: really create new things and put new things out there,
Speaker 3: and hopefully people will support and hopefully people will check
Speaker 3: it out.
Speaker 1: You mentioned Catcher in the Rye earlier. This has been
Speaker 1: such a strange connection with many assassinations throughout our recent history,
Speaker 1: and you speculate in the film that it may be
Speaker 1: possible that this could be some sort of trigger or
Speaker 1: at least associated heavily with these programs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Joe Outwell, which is also in the movie. We
Speaker 3: have Walter Bosley, which is an AFOSI Air Force special
Speaker 3: agent in the movie. We have Joe Outwell which was
Speaker 3: a author and researcher. We have Kathie O'Brien which is
Speaker 3: a monarch MK Ultra survivor, and we have Mark Devlin
Speaker 3: which is an author and a researcher, and myself and
Speaker 3: Jay Widener in the movie as well. So Catcher in
Speaker 3: the Rye has been associated with two major assassinations, John
Speaker 3: Lennon then the attempted assassination with Ronald Reagan. And I
Speaker 3: actually have a book here that Mark David Chapman after
Speaker 3: he had killed John Lennon. Here's the book, one hundred
Speaker 3: Most Famous Criminals. After he had shot and killed John Lennon,
Speaker 3: he sat on the street and started reading Catcher in
Speaker 3: the Rye until the police showed up. And then in
Speaker 3: his defense in court, he stood up he said, if
Speaker 3: you want to know the reason why I committed this act,
Speaker 3: then all you gotta do is read Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker 3: And then a few years later a psychologist or a
Speaker 3: psychiatrist went in to meet with Mark David Chapman in
Speaker 3: prison and he was still read Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker 3: So this in Catchering the Rye, is one of the
Speaker 3: most popular books in American history. It's required reading for
Speaker 3: if you were in public school, which is insane when
Speaker 3: you think about it. Bit Joe Atwell within our movie
Speaker 3: at Clockwork Shining, he has a different interpretation of what
Speaker 3: was going on with Catcher in the Rye. He believes
Speaker 3: that it's he's decoded it to the point where he
Speaker 3: thinks that it's a it's telling the story of the
Speaker 3: Masonic trajectory of a member going through the ranks and
Speaker 3: going through the lodge because it has a lot of
Speaker 3: the same types of symbolism within there. And Kubrick has
Speaker 3: a lot of Freemasonic symbolism in a lot of his
Speaker 3: movies as well. So if you want to get the
Speaker 3: full interpretation and of what Joe at Well believes is
Speaker 3: going on within Catcher in the Riot, then you're gonna
Speaker 3: have to watch our movie on Amazon Prime.
Speaker 1: Going back to the possibility of some sort of mind
Speaker 1: control experiment going on at the Overlook Hotel, do you
Speaker 1: speculate in the film that, like in the MK Ultra experimentation,
Speaker 1: there could have been some sort of psychedelic substance like
Speaker 1: LSD distributed to the family somehow.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's real life examples of LSD being used on unknown,
Speaker 3: unwitting subs, unwitting people, entire groups of unwitting people that
Speaker 3: have no idea that they're being dosed with LSD. And
Speaker 3: this goes back to some of the very first MK
Speaker 3: ultra experiments that were done on the army, which they
Speaker 3: were kind of just told that they were going to
Speaker 3: be a part of, you know, biological weapons testing. They
Speaker 3: didn't know that they were going to be pumped up
Speaker 3: with a lot of this, uh, these hallucinogenic drugs. And
Speaker 3: one of those drugs is called b Z, which BZ
Speaker 3: is like one hundred times more powerful than LSD. It
Speaker 3: would make people lose their minds for long periods of time,
Speaker 3: like weeks at a time. And they would also do
Speaker 3: open air testing with this. They would like simulate an
Speaker 3: entire military operation and then they would just spray this
Speaker 3: BZ on all of the soldiers that were a part
Speaker 3: of this simulated operation and they would like lose their minds.
Speaker 4: For long periods.
Speaker 3: And that's the thing with you know, taking LSD or
Speaker 3: some kind of psychedelic whenever you knowingly take it, you
Speaker 3: you can expect that you're going to have some kind
Speaker 3: of change, some kind of head change, You're going to
Speaker 3: expect some sort of physiological change within your audience, within
Speaker 3: your mind. But if you're unknowingly dosed with some sort
Speaker 3: of hallucinogenic drug, you're gonna think that you're losing your mind.
Speaker 3: And what we theorize and talk about within the movie
Speaker 3: is that it's a high possibility that Lloyd the bartender
Speaker 3: dosed Jack's drink with LSD. And this is a very
Speaker 3: known thing. Operation Midnight Climax was this very thing they did,
Speaker 3: this exact same thing. They had this brothel set up
Speaker 3: where they would hire the prostitutes to unknowingly dose these
Speaker 3: John's alcoholic drinks with LSD. And then you have Frank
Speaker 3: Olsen as well that we talk about in the documentary
Speaker 3: where Sidney gott Leave, the head of the MK Ultra programs,
Speaker 3: unknowingly spiked his alcoholic drink with LSD and then he
Speaker 3: jumped out of the window of his hotel room and
Speaker 3: and died. So there's so many real life examples of
Speaker 3: LSD in these different psychedelic drugs being used on the public.
Speaker 4: Unknowingly.
Speaker 3: And then there's also even an instance where the CIA
Speaker 3: sprayed in an LSD aerosol and a whole CIA party unknowingly.
Speaker 3: So we have all these real life examples of this,
Speaker 3: and it only makes sense when you look at the
Speaker 3: way that the Shininess set up. And when Jack first
Speaker 3: experiences what could be considered supernatural or paranormal things, it's
Speaker 3: only after he takes that alcoholic drink from Lloyd the
Speaker 3: bartender and Windy comes into the Gold Room. It was
Speaker 3: like Danny was attacked by a woman upstairs in one
Speaker 3: of the empty rooms. So he goes upstairs in the
Speaker 3: room two thirty seven, and when you walk into room
Speaker 3: two thirty seven, when you see it in the movie,
Speaker 3: it's unlike anything else that you had seen in the
Speaker 3: entire movie. That everything is super psychedelic. The collars of
Speaker 3: the carpet are very vivid. It's different than anything else
Speaker 3: any of the other sets that you see around the
Speaker 3: inside of the Overlook Hotel. And he sees the very
Speaker 3: attractive woman, which the attractive woman then turns into an
Speaker 3: elderly lady. He kind of freaks out and goes out
Speaker 3: of the room and then goes to his room with
Speaker 3: Wendy his little apartment room and walks in and Wendy
Speaker 3: asked him, did you see anything? Did you find anything?
Speaker 3: See anything? And he's like, no, I didn't see anything.
Speaker 4: So it's like.
Speaker 3: It's like he either knows that this is some kind
Speaker 3: of an experiment. And again, Kubrick is not only doing
Speaker 3: an experiment within the movie as he's rewriting the movie.
Speaker 3: He's doing an experiment on the actors and the way
Speaker 3: that he treated Shelley Duval, which is very reminiscent of
Speaker 3: a way that you would tear somebody down in some
Speaker 3: sort of MK ultra experiment. But it's also an experiment
Speaker 3: on the audience. So it's a triple whammy. He's not
Speaker 3: only hitting you with he's sending you from all directions.
Speaker 1: As you said earlier, you had Kathy O'Brien on and
Speaker 1: she also discussed how these programs would initiate trauma on
Speaker 1: the victims until they would disassociate, and it would also
Speaker 1: involve LSD oftentimes, but trauma was the key to getting
Speaker 1: the person to dissociate enough to where they may even
Speaker 1: be able to have some sort of psychic abilities, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what we theorize within the movie because
Speaker 3: it's speculated that between the doctor that comes to check
Speaker 3: out Danny in the beginning of the film at Wendy
Speaker 3: and Jack's apartment in Boulder, she's basically like, this is
Speaker 3: due to a like some sort of self hypnosis that
Speaker 3: Danny is, you know, developing these kinds of abilities. And
Speaker 3: then the doctor asked, when do you When did he
Speaker 3: start experiencing these types of abilities and these types of
Speaker 3: visions in these problems, and she said, well, it was
Speaker 3: after Jack broke Danny's arm. So the abuse by Jack
Speaker 3: toward Danny has inadvertently created these types of psychic abilities
Speaker 3: that Danny has within the shiny and the trauma is
Speaker 3: always the key when trying to unlock these certain psychic abilities.
Speaker 3: And we know this for a fact that several MK
Speaker 3: Ultra programs subprojects were interested in these types of psychic abilities.
Speaker 3: They were trying to break down the mental psyche of
Speaker 3: people to try and unlock or discover or bring to
Speaker 3: the forefront of the consciousness of the individual to be
Speaker 3: able to tap in to these certain psychic abilities. So
Speaker 3: it's not and then, you know, Jacket later admits that
Speaker 3: later on in the film when he's talking to Lloyd
Speaker 3: the bartender for the first time, and he says that, yeah,
Speaker 3: I did. I did hurt Danny, I did break Danny's arm.
Speaker 3: And there's this weird tension between Jack and Danny throughout
Speaker 3: the entire movie, like some kind of weird, creepy tension
Speaker 3: that's going on there, and also which we didn't put
Speaker 3: in the movie, but other people have pointed out in
Speaker 3: the in the beginning when Jack is waiting for Bill Watson,
Speaker 3: which Bill Watson is it's so interesting because Bill Watson
Speaker 3: really doesn't do anything in the entire movie. He says
Speaker 3: like maybe one or two words. It's like, why is
Speaker 3: he even in there? And it seems like the hit
Speaker 3: this character is kind of he's kind of the director
Speaker 3: of the operation, like the experiment, the CIA experiment that's
Speaker 3: going on up at the Overlook, and his resemblance to
Speaker 3: Sidney Gottlieb, which is the head of the m K
Speaker 3: Outra programs, are it's uncanny what's going on there. And
Speaker 3: we didn't put that in the movie because there really
Speaker 3: wasn't any place to kind of fit it in. There
Speaker 3: is already almost a two hour long movie, which I
Speaker 3: could have made it like three or four hours. But
Speaker 3: I didn't think that anybody wanted.
Speaker 5: To watch three hour, four hour.
Speaker 3: Long documentary, which is another thing about being an editor.
Speaker 3: You got to know when to take certain things out
Speaker 3: and when to put certain things in in the runtime
Speaker 3: on any given topic. But I think that that worked
Speaker 3: out for the best. But you got this operation with
Speaker 3: whenever Jack is waiting for Ollman and Bill Watson to
Speaker 3: come and get their bags, Jack is reading a playgirl
Speaker 3: magazine out in the open. He's reading a playgirl magazine.
Speaker 1: Ever notice that, Yeah, Yeah, I'm definitely gonna have to
Speaker 1: go to.
Speaker 4: Other people at point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And uh, you know what type of person you
Speaker 3: know reads a playgirl magazine.
Speaker 1: I don't, yeah, man.
Speaker 3: So there you go. That kind of connects the uh,
Speaker 3: the nature of Jack and you know, but what he's doing.
Speaker 1: I found it very interesting. You mentioned the somewhat abusive
Speaker 1: treatment of Shelley Duval by Stanley Kubrick, and you also
Speaker 1: showed that in interviews with Jack Nicholson and others, he
Speaker 1: wasn't treating them that way. I find it strange that
Speaker 1: he singled out a woman to be somewhat abusive to
Speaker 1: during the film. Any thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: Well, his excuse was is that he was trying to
Speaker 3: get a better performance out of Shelley Duval, that he
Speaker 3: didn't think that she was that great of an actor.
Speaker 3: And there's several times within the behind the scenes footage
Speaker 3: of The Shining, which we show some of in our movie,
Speaker 3: that Stanley Kubrick thinks that Shelley Duval's a lot of
Speaker 3: her acting looks fake. He's mentioned that several times to
Speaker 3: Shelley Duvall. He's like, you can't jump on every time
Speaker 3: he hits a line because it looks too fake, Shelley.
Speaker 3: You know. Then we have the whole scene in our
Speaker 3: movie where he's basically berating Shelley Duval for you know,
Speaker 3: not being there on time and not doing what she's
Speaker 3: supposed to do and the how she's holding everybody up
Speaker 3: and that it's that it's kind of like making it
Speaker 3: not worth it for him. And Shelley Duvall was really
Speaker 3: affected by that her and her acting career was pretty
Speaker 3: much over after that movie came out. She was in
Speaker 3: a few other things afterwards, but it never never took off.
Speaker 3: And that's a real life example of something affecting reality
Speaker 3: that's within a movie and There's tons of examples of
Speaker 3: that with Stanley Kubrick's movie A Clockwork Orange did that
Speaker 3: same thing. After A Clockwork Orange got released overseas in
Speaker 3: the UK and a few other different countries, crimes skyrocketed.
Speaker 3: There's more burglaries, there's murders that was associated with The
Speaker 3: Clockwork Orange so far to the point that Stanley Kubrick
Speaker 3: pulled it. He pulled a movie from several countries. And
Speaker 3: then we also talk about Sue Lyon within the movie
Speaker 3: which has to do with Lolita and Lolita being a
Speaker 3: movie that that is essentially about pedophilia, and then in
Speaker 3: real life, Sue Lyon, the person that's a star in
Speaker 3: Stanley Kubrick's movie that is about her being sexually abused
Speaker 3: by an older man, is actually being sexually abused by
Speaker 3: an older man in real life. One of Kubrick's producers
Speaker 3: in the movie.
Speaker 4: As Wow.
Speaker 3: There's so many of these echoing effects between Stanley Kubrick's
Speaker 3: movies and real life. I mean, we just mentioned Catcher
Speaker 3: in the Rye. Catcher in the Rye. The Shining came
Speaker 3: out in nineteen eighty the two assassinations, with the one
Speaker 3: attempt on Ronald Reagan and the other one on the
Speaker 3: one that actually went through on John Lennon was around
Speaker 3: a year after the movie came out. So how did
Speaker 3: Stanley Kubrick know to put Catcher in the Rye in
Speaker 3: The Shining? How did he know that this was going
Speaker 3: to be a big controversy that these assassins were going
Speaker 3: to be continuously reading Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker 1: Not to give too much away, but you also discuss
Speaker 1: briefly about a missing scene that could have further clues
Speaker 1: to the real meaning of the film.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Stanley Kubrick.
Speaker 3: Had a completely different ending to The Shining that was
Speaker 3: filmed and was released to some of the first test
Speaker 3: screenings of The Shining, and the excuse was by Stanley
Speaker 3: that the audience reactions weren't what he wanted them to be.
Speaker 4: When the movie ended, the.
Speaker 3: Audience would just get up and immediately leave and not
Speaker 3: sit around with their friends and with their family to
Speaker 3: try and discuss what the movie meant, which you know,
Speaker 3: Kubrick was really well known for doing that. He wanted
Speaker 3: to create a mystery within his movies. He wanted people
Speaker 3: to discuss his movies and create their own theories and speculations.
Speaker 3: He wanted it to be a mystery, because he didn't
Speaker 3: treat the audience like they were stupid like many people
Speaker 3: do nowadays. And so he decided to have his editor
Speaker 3: go to the theaters and splice the real to cut
Speaker 3: out this original ending of the movie. And we know
Speaker 3: for a fact that there was a different ending because
Speaker 3: there are photographs of the original ending, and we also
Speaker 3: have the script of the original ending, And this original
Speaker 3: ending to the movie we believe was cut out because
Speaker 3: it completely reveals the entire plot of the movie and
Speaker 3: really hammers home the fact that this is not what
Speaker 3: we think that it is. It is something completely different.
Speaker 3: This is a psychological operation that's happening up at the overlook.
Speaker 3: This doesn't have anything to do with ghosts or paranormal
Speaker 3: or supernatural things. This is these people that are portrayed
Speaker 3: as ghosts that we think are ghosts are really actors.
Speaker 5: They're LARPers.
Speaker 4: Have you seen the movie Shutter Island?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So if you remember Shutter Island, the entire
Speaker 3: premise of the movie is that Leonardo DiCaprio's character is
Speaker 3: an investigator. So he shows up on this island, at
Speaker 3: this this insane asylum to investigate a murder on the property.
Speaker 3: And spoiler alert for you know Shutter Island. As you
Speaker 3: haven't seen it, then you know it's been out for
Speaker 3: a long time. It turns out at the end of
Speaker 3: the Shutter Island that all of the people within the
Speaker 3: movie are LARPing their positions. They're actors, and Leonardo DiCaprio's
Speaker 3: character within the movie is actually a patient at the hospital.
Speaker 3: So that's essentially what's going on with the Shining. These
Speaker 3: people that are there are really.
Speaker 5: Actors, and they're.
Speaker 3: Real physical human beings other than some of the hallucinations
Speaker 3: that Jack might be going through and some of the
Speaker 3: hallucinations that Danny might be going through, And that's why
Speaker 3: we bring in the LSD aerosol and we show the
Speaker 3: examples of that happening in real life. So it's a
Speaker 3: possibility that there is some kind of aerosol that's also
Speaker 3: being sprayed in room two thirty seven and that might
Speaker 3: have been how Danny. But Danny is also a psychic,
Speaker 3: has psychic abilities, intuitive abilities, whatever you want to call them.
Speaker 3: He receives visions or he's able to remote view, or
Speaker 3: whatever you want to classify it as. But it makes
Speaker 3: sense that Danny would be able to see these things
Speaker 3: because he's really young and he's a psychic ability. He
Speaker 3: has psychic abilities. But they're actors in this movie. They're
Speaker 3: not ghosts, they're not apparitions, they're not ghouls and goblins.
Speaker 3: And that is what, you know, I think really pissed
Speaker 3: off Stephen King within the movie because he wanted this
Speaker 3: to be you know, about the paranormal aspects and the
Speaker 3: hauntings and the Maze coming alive and being a monster
Speaker 3: in the back and grabbing them and all that. But
Speaker 3: we see how that turned out with you know, his
Speaker 3: Shining mini series that he did. It was god awful.
Speaker 3: I can't even watch it. I can't even watch the
Speaker 3: first episode of it. It's just it's freaking horrible. And
Speaker 3: another reason might be too, is because people thought that
Speaker 3: Stanley Kubrick was going to maybe film The Shining at
Speaker 3: the Stanley the Stanley Hotel in Colorado, but then he
Speaker 3: decided not to do so. But hey, they got Stephen
Speaker 3: King's version of The Shining in that mini series film
Speaker 3: that The Stanley Hotels.
Speaker 1: Still one of the best movies of all time when
Speaker 1: it comes to Kubrick himself, and I know, we'll never
Speaker 1: really know this. The man is no longer with us.
Speaker 1: But do you think he was really trying to bring
Speaker 1: attention to this or may he have been part of
Speaker 1: some sort of more sinister program.
Speaker 3: Well, he would have had to have known about the
Speaker 3: CIA's MK Aultra programs, just based on the fact that
Speaker 3: he made a Clockwork Orange like that entire movie is
Speaker 3: about MK Ultra and mine.
Speaker 4: Contests straight up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, perhaps seeing it. And there's also a part in
Speaker 3: Clockwork Orange where it says it almost says the word
Speaker 3: a dreamochrome. It says a dream chrome. It's on the
Speaker 3: top of a like a header of like a building
Speaker 3: that says a dream chrome. So he had to have
Speaker 3: been aware at least of some of these programs, and
Speaker 3: it's quite possible that he was trying to expose it
Speaker 3: to a certain degree. But it just shows you the
Speaker 3: long lasting symbolic nature of his movies that it's just
Speaker 3: now being discovered.
Speaker 1: Let's close on this. Do you think that it's possible
Speaker 1: that these mind control programs are still being carried out
Speaker 1: in any capacity? I often wonder if they even need to.
Speaker 1: With technology, we have social media, the ease of access
Speaker 1: to pharmaceutical drugs that people have I'm sure that they
Speaker 1: have the knowledge and know how to in a way
Speaker 1: control them remotely with the level of our technology these days.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to be a broken record
Speaker 3: here or beat a dud horse. But they pretty much
Speaker 3: figured it out on an individual level, and then they
Speaker 3: just expanded it to a worldwide thing. But you're right,
Speaker 3: they no longer really need to do this on an
Speaker 3: individual level anymore because they can just basically control and
Speaker 3: manipulate the population through social media by curating what people see,
Speaker 3: what they can find, and what they can know. And
Speaker 3: it seems like that it's just one large MK Ultra
Speaker 3: operation that's being just run on everyone collectively, and that
Speaker 3: causes so much confusion within people that they no longer
Speaker 3: know what to believe. And that's also a part of
Speaker 3: our documentary as well, with the Uri besman Off clip
Speaker 3: that we put in there from the early eighties. After
Speaker 3: Kathy O'Brien talks talking about the MK ultra being put
Speaker 3: into our school systems, we then show a clip of
Speaker 3: Yuri Besmanov talking about that if we can pump enough
Speaker 3: Marxist Leninism ideology into the soft heads of.
Speaker 4: Young people.
Speaker 3: Then those people are going to grow up in eighteen
Speaker 3: years and those kids are now going to be the
Speaker 3: ones that will be influencing. They'll be the ones they'll
Speaker 3: be the leaders of the country, They'll be the ones
Speaker 3: that are in positions of power, they will be the
Speaker 3: political cabinet members, they will be the ones that are
Speaker 3: essentially in control of the country. And he said that
Speaker 3: that's one of the main ways to completely ideologically subvert
Speaker 3: an entire country is you have to control the educational system.
Speaker 1: Well, I really enjoyed the film. Before you head out,
Speaker 1: let the audience know once again where they can get
Speaker 1: the movie and all of your content.
Speaker 3: Yes, you can get the movie A Clockwork Shining on
Speaker 3: Amazon Prime Video. You can also get it on Apple TV.
Speaker 3: Plus Lee's help support my work in independent filmmakers work.
Speaker 3: You know, like I was mentioning earlier, Hollywood is basically dead.
Speaker 3: They're not putting out good work. They're done, they're fried,
Speaker 3: they're burnt. And please support independent filmmakers and purchase our
Speaker 3: movie A Clockwork Shining on Amazon Prime And if you're
Speaker 3: in another country that you're that it's not available in,
Speaker 3: if you click the link, hopefully we can get a
Speaker 3: link in the description for the movie, planning on posting
Speaker 3: it on my end as well, so the link will
Speaker 3: be in the description. If you can't get it in
Speaker 3: your country, it's not available on Amazon Prime if you
Speaker 3: click the link. Sometimes, if you're in the UK in
Speaker 3: the United States, you'll be able to get it for sure,
Speaker 3: but if you're anywhere else then you're probably not going
Speaker 3: to be able to get it. But if you if
Speaker 3: Apple TV Plus is available in your country, you can
Speaker 3: get it on there, And if it's not, then we
Speaker 3: will be figuring out a way to make it available
Speaker 3: for people everywhere in the world here soon, hopefully in
Speaker 3: a couple of months. But if you would like to
Speaker 3: figure out, listen to some more of my work you
Speaker 3: find Raised by Giants on YouTube and and all podcast platforms,
Speaker 3: and if you would like to reach out to me
Speaker 3: personally on ex Twitter Raised by Giants eight and on
Speaker 3: Instagram at Raised by a Giants pod. Thanks so much, Chris,
Speaker 3: really appreciate your time and thanks for watching my movie.
Speaker 1: Brother really appreat yuch sir, Thanks again for coming on.
Speaker 1: We'll do it again of course, and until next time, everyone,
Speaker 1: have a wonderful evening. We'll talk again tomorrow. Today, I
Speaker 1: want to welcome back to the show Will Baby. He
Speaker 1: is an author and co host of the Hunger for
Speaker 1: Knowledge podcast with Rob Tibbins. He presents his insights into
Speaker 1: spiritual evolution through coaching and public speaking. His main goal
Speaker 1: is to inspire his fellow man to see the divine
Speaker 1: in all things. Will welcome back.
Speaker 2: How you doing, I'm good man. How are you? Thanks
Speaker 2: for having me back?
Speaker 1: Excellent, Thank you for coming back. I really enjoyed our
Speaker 1: discussion last time. And you have a new ebook which
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about. You are the gods, you see,
Speaker 1: and this is based on your spiritual understandings. There may
Speaker 1: be a few deeply religious folks in the audience that
Speaker 1: get triggered by the title, but I've come to understand
Speaker 1: that dogma is basically a spiritual parasite that imprisons those
Speaker 1: that subject themselves to extreme religious beliefs of any kind.
Speaker 1: After my spiritual journey, I know exactly what you mean
Speaker 1: by this title, and it's not what some people may
Speaker 1: think it is, which we're going to discuss today. For me,
Speaker 1: it in no way means that I don't believe there
Speaker 1: is a source, creator, God of all but I understand
Speaker 1: the concept of God much differently now after my spiritual journey.
Speaker 1: So there's lots to get into here before we do.
Speaker 1: It's been a little while since you've been on. Remind
Speaker 1: the audience a little bit about yourself and the work
Speaker 1: you're doing.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I pretty much I'm I'm a spiritual seeker.
Speaker 2: Not too long ago, maybe a couple of months back,
Speaker 2: I became a meditation teacher, and you know, I've been
Speaker 2: teaching meditation now for about three months or so, and uh,
Speaker 2: it's one of those things with me now where I
Speaker 2: can't I can't imagine life without teaching meditation anymore. Like
Speaker 2: it's such a vital part of uh my life now.
Speaker 2: It really gives me the sense of purpose I think
Speaker 2: I was I was searching for for most of my life.
Speaker 2: You know. I think those that go along that spiritual path,
Speaker 2: they have a tendency to seek out service. You know,
Speaker 2: we we want to figure out how, you know, because
Speaker 2: we see the innate value in ourselves and then we
Speaker 2: see it in others. And uh, you know, like I said,
Speaker 2: I'm my life, I'm dedicating it to the service of
Speaker 2: you know, just trying to leave this earth a better
Speaker 2: place by the time I leave.
Speaker 1: Excellent, man, I love it. So give us a synopsis
Speaker 1: of your book.
Speaker 2: Well, I made the book back in April when I
Speaker 2: was It coincided with me, you know, becoming a certified
Speaker 2: meditation teacher. I felt like I needed you a certification
Speaker 2: to teach meditation, even though it's kind of absurd when
Speaker 2: you think about the idea of like the Buddha didn't
Speaker 2: get in his head he's like, oh, I need a
Speaker 2: certificate to go teach meditation. No, he felt an inclination
Speaker 2: to do it. It was more of a spiritual calling
Speaker 2: for me. But I was like, you know, if people
Speaker 2: want to see the certificate, let's get that out of
Speaker 2: the way. And with that, you know, I think that
Speaker 2: their inertia. Of that time, I had just quit my
Speaker 2: job and I was sort of in like this this
Speaker 2: no man's land of like I don't know if I
Speaker 2: just like completely screwed everything up, but I knew that
Speaker 2: I needed to just move in the direction of where
Speaker 2: I was headed. So then I had At first I
Speaker 2: was going to write just an article, and then that
Speaker 2: article became you know, like I was like, I can
Speaker 2: you know, flush this out, and I just want to
Speaker 2: put something out, you know, put an ebook out, and
Speaker 2: you know that's what it became. I named it you
Speaker 2: are the Gods you Seek because I know that, like
Speaker 2: you said, it's a very triggering title for some I
Speaker 2: get it. I actually had a long email exchange with
Speaker 2: my uncle because he's a past He's still like he
Speaker 2: was a pastor at a church for some years and
Speaker 2: now he does like guest ministries and things, so he's like, nephew.
Speaker 2: He is like, I see what you're saying. I can't
Speaker 2: accept the title of it because I was ordained to
Speaker 2: spread the word of Jesus Christ. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I understand. I get it one hundred percent. You know,
Speaker 2: I've spent the first eighteen nineteen years of my life
Speaker 2: as and identically, you know, identifying myself as a Christian.
Speaker 2: I believed it so much to the point where it
Speaker 2: created some degree of insomnia in my life because when
Speaker 2: I was like a kid, I was hung up on
Speaker 2: the idea that the world could end at anytime, and
Speaker 2: I was like, what if I go to sleep in
Speaker 2: the world ends, And that that thought triggered this this
Speaker 2: whole insomniac in my life. For like the next like
Speaker 2: decade or so, and so, you know, it's not one
Speaker 2: of these situations where it's like, oh, well, you're not
Speaker 2: you were never really a believer. Now, I very much
Speaker 2: believed it.
Speaker 5: And.
Speaker 2: So I could I understood where he was going to
Speaker 2: be coming from. With the title of it. It seems
Speaker 2: a little too, It's a little much, I think for
Speaker 2: somebody who's trained to believe that God only exists out
Speaker 2: like outside of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for those that really haven't explored any spiritual concepts
Speaker 1: besides their immediate religious institution that they subscribe to, it's
Speaker 1: very difficult to understand some of those alternative concepts.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think that it's you know, I think we
Speaker 2: make this division between religion and and what we might
Speaker 2: call like a cult, but they're very much like they're
Speaker 2: they're they're sort of like just they're they're the same thing.
Speaker 2: And there I can say it.
Speaker 1: I agree, I said it many times before. It's it's
Speaker 1: like adult just like politics. But we'll get to that later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's it's it's belief in many ways. And
Speaker 2: I was just having a conversation with with my buddy
Speaker 2: last night about this, and you know, we were talking about,
Speaker 2: you know, belief in many ways creates this this prison
Speaker 2: for your mind, like it makes it sometimes puts you
Speaker 2: in that place where it's like I you'll when you
Speaker 2: talk to somebody with an alternative perspective, you'll hear something,
Speaker 2: but you won't even consider it because you feel like
Speaker 2: you know the truth. And as I get older, I'm
Speaker 2: feeling more and more called to bring unity to the
Speaker 2: spiritual systems in the world. And I know that sounds grandiose,
Speaker 2: and that sounds like crazy, but that to me personally,
Speaker 2: I feel like the world that we live in is
Speaker 2: directly correlated with our lack of an ability to come
Speaker 2: together as spiritual people, like we all. You know, there's
Speaker 2: so many different religions, so many different spiritual systems, and
Speaker 2: I think at the core of them, there's always the
Speaker 2: tenet of you know what you might call, you know,
Speaker 2: the unity of all things. You know, that thing is
Speaker 2: usually in most religions, you know at the core of it,
Speaker 2: that it all comes from this Creator, that it's all
Speaker 2: just an outpouring of the Creator. And I think so
Speaker 2: much of the so much of the spiritual world has
Speaker 2: been sort of transfixed on the differences the dogmas of
Speaker 2: it right that they can't come together on what they
Speaker 2: agree on. And that's I mean to me. If you
Speaker 2: take that component away from the people right now, of
Speaker 2: course you lead you live in like this spiritually devoid
Speaker 2: world that tries to pretty much turn you into a
Speaker 2: commodity with no regard for your spiritual essence. So I
Speaker 2: wrote this book with as an introduction to just how
Speaker 2: I'm seeing things. Also, I added meditations that that I
Speaker 2: had personally started. You know, I I formed my own
Speaker 2: meditation practices, which kind of led to me forming meditations,
Speaker 2: and then I was like, I want to I want
Speaker 2: to give this to people, which led me down the
Speaker 2: road to becoming a teacher. But yeah, I feel like
Speaker 2: mindfulness is essential in coming into the understanding of the
Speaker 2: divine presence inside of you. Without it, you just kind
Speaker 2: of in this world of things that are different and
Speaker 2: weird and outside of you. But once you can really
Speaker 2: step back from it all and you can see that
Speaker 2: there's something essential inside of us all and inside of everything.
Speaker 2: Really when you look.
Speaker 1: Let's get deeper into what you mean by you are
Speaker 1: the gods you seek for me, it's taking accountability back
Speaker 1: for us as a human species. We can be amazing
Speaker 1: human beings, just because that's the way it should be.
Speaker 1: First of all, instead of being a good person because
Speaker 1: you fear an eternity in hell or you want the
Speaker 1: reward of eternal bliss in heaven with the old man
Speaker 1: with a white beard telling you how proud of you
Speaker 1: he is, why not just do it because that's the
Speaker 1: right thing to do. That's what we should be doing
Speaker 1: as human beings is loving thy neighbor, treating each other
Speaker 1: with love and respect, and treating the planet with love
Speaker 1: and respect and harming no one. It's very simple to
Speaker 1: follow those concepts for me without having a care on
Speaker 1: the string of a reward in heaven. And I already
Speaker 1: got past the understanding of there is no hell. And
Speaker 1: my belief is we are indeed reincarnated multiple times, and
Speaker 1: this experience can be hell on earth or it can
Speaker 1: be a paradise. Going back to you are the gods
Speaker 1: you seek for me. This really means that we take
Speaker 1: full accountability back. We don't have to do things because
Speaker 1: of a fear or reward. Like you said, we have
Speaker 1: this very powerful force inside of each and every one
Speaker 1: of us. If you have any kind of profound, meditative
Speaker 1: or psychedelic experience, you get this understanding almost knowing that
Speaker 1: we're connected and everything is one. And after all my
Speaker 1: meditative experiences, psychedelic experiences, real life, integrated experiences, I've come
Speaker 1: to understand that it is all one. And I know
Speaker 1: it's probably overused in spiritual and wo woo terminologies, but
Speaker 1: I think that we are all fractals of source. We
Speaker 1: are all pieces of this one divine creator being. But
Speaker 1: it's also everything my current understanding, even the worst of
Speaker 1: the experience here is for us to learn from and
Speaker 1: to grow from, and it's part of the experience. I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear a little bit more about your thoughts.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm very much in line with how you
Speaker 2: see it, because I think that that's what most of
Speaker 2: us who try to get away from the dogma of
Speaker 2: the conversation of what is going on here? You start
Speaker 2: trying to find the simplest answers. Right, It's simple to
Speaker 2: me that everything, like you said, is a fractal of source.
Speaker 2: That okay, I think a large degree of the spiritual
Speaker 2: world would agree on that, right. It's only when you
Speaker 2: start getting into well, I know God's name, I know
Speaker 2: the story of God. God talked to this person. God
Speaker 2: it's only once that starts that there is issue. So
Speaker 2: I'm trying to find what transcends dogma. What is the
Speaker 2: thing that even dogmatic people could agree on. I think
Speaker 2: when we uh, when we really take time to shut
Speaker 2: everything out, that reality is is not only there, but
Speaker 2: it's kind of like it sort of screams at you.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, look, look, look, there's there's this. You know.
Speaker 2: I often think about it in terms of lucid dreaming,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you know a good deal a good
Speaker 2: deal of listeners understand lucid dreaming, but you know, briefly,
Speaker 2: to me, it's when you know you wake up in
Speaker 2: the dream and you are conscious of the idea or
Speaker 2: the fact that you're in a dream. Part of my
Speaker 2: meditation lately has been on I'm trying to be sort
Speaker 2: of the do it for source in this dream. So
Speaker 2: I try to you know, when you stop externalizing things
Speaker 2: and you started saying like I am a part of
Speaker 2: this creat I am the co creator of this thing.
Speaker 2: Like when you own that, I don't know, if I
Speaker 2: don't know, if a more powerful thought then to feel
Speaker 2: as though you are one with everything.
Speaker 1: Another thing this connects to is idle worship is more
Speaker 1: rampant than ever right now. And this doesn't just include deities,
Speaker 1: ascended masters, or what we consider gods. This is celebrities, politicians, technology,
Speaker 1: Anything in my view that requires worship is something thing
Speaker 1: that is not here for the good of humanity. Ruler
Speaker 1: means ARCon arkon ruler. I think that what we're experiencing,
Speaker 1: and what we've been experiencing for centuries, is a suppression
Speaker 1: of who we are by our ruling class. But this
Speaker 1: also has brought forth the Abrahamic religions and many other
Speaker 1: spiritual practices that require us to get our power, our
Speaker 1: knowledge from outside sources, the gods, different ascended masters, spiritual
Speaker 1: beings that we are powerless without them, and we have
Speaker 1: to call upon them for strength and for prayers. But
Speaker 1: we're already connected to all of these things, and we
Speaker 1: have the direct ability to access these under standings directly
Speaker 1: without going through these other sources, because you don't need
Speaker 1: these external intelligences to thrive in your life. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the whole point of what we're experiencing as
Speaker 1: a whole in humanity, is to take back accountability and
Speaker 1: take our own power back. We have access to everything,
Speaker 1: these entities and extraterrestrials and angels and spiritual beings have
Speaker 1: access to as well. It's just that we've been so
Speaker 1: suppressed and there's been an intentional effort to keep humanity
Speaker 1: from realizing that we have these powers. I do believe
Speaker 1: that there is a hidden understanding that humanity has much
Speaker 1: more power over our reality, over our own sovereignty, and
Speaker 1: more of a connection to what you would call God
Speaker 1: than we could ever understand.
Speaker 2: Absolutely when you were talking, what popped into my head
Speaker 2: was just like this idea that we have of like
Speaker 2: hierarchical systems, like we we have these systems in place
Speaker 2: to elevate others over other people, almost as like an example,
Speaker 2: to say, here's the pecking order, your way down there.
Speaker 2: This guy he's on TV. Okay, so he's way up
Speaker 2: here now. Whether or not we you know, of course
Speaker 2: that's not true. But when you live in a world
Speaker 2: that attempts to substantiate that right to the point where
Speaker 2: it's like when you think about people like Michael Jackson
Speaker 2: or something with people just faint, just faint in the
Speaker 2: middle of his performance, or or when you touch him
Speaker 2: and scream or something like that, like that's some degree
Speaker 2: of you know, you wouldn't touch yourself and scream. You
Speaker 2: know what I mean, you you're screaming because you think
Speaker 2: that touching him is so momentous that it's that it's
Speaker 2: such a you know, such that there's such a difference
Speaker 2: between you and when you look at the way societies
Speaker 2: are kind of laid out. I love looking at you know,
Speaker 2: civilization and you know, in in cyclical senses. Right, So
Speaker 2: when we when you think about the way that it happens,
Speaker 2: there's always this elevation of there's always a group of
Speaker 2: people who figure out how to elevate themselves over everyone else.
Speaker 2: And then eventually the people figure out that that that's
Speaker 2: all that none of that is true, and then they
Speaker 2: have problems and then like you know, eventually it destroys
Speaker 2: itself and then becomes something else and does the same thing.
Speaker 2: So it's like I've done, I've been looking a lot
Speaker 2: of one of the guys that I know, I know,
Speaker 2: you know, at the I've been I've been yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know, I've definitely listened to him on here and
Speaker 2: and on other things. But you know, one thing that
Speaker 2: always sticks with me. But what he said is, you know,
Speaker 2: his definition of government as you know, intergenerational crime family,
Speaker 2: you know, like I was saying, when he heard that,
Speaker 2: it's one of the things it was like, dang, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's it that you just kind of hit it on
Speaker 2: the head, right. So when you think about that, and
Speaker 2: if these people are the people who form our governments,
Speaker 2: then you have this criminal element that understand said, if
Speaker 2: someone has to subjugate the people in order to elevate
Speaker 2: its own status, which is spiritual nature. It may not
Speaker 2: even appear to be spiritual, but that is spiritual. When
Speaker 2: you tell somebody that their life is pretty much worthless
Speaker 2: and they live just to go work some machine somewhere,
Speaker 2: and that's how they define themselves. That that that kind
Speaker 2: of subjugation is is spiritual on nature. Because I mean,
Speaker 2: on the flip side of that, what I was thinking
Speaker 2: last night, I was I was sitting outside talking to
Speaker 2: my buddy, and I was like, what if all these
Speaker 2: people just got up out of their you know, out
Speaker 2: of their houses, and just went and started doing exactly
Speaker 2: what they wanted to right now? You know, but they
Speaker 2: won't because they've been so entrained. They're where they're supposed
Speaker 2: to be at it. It's nine o'clock at night, you're
Speaker 2: supposed to be sitting here watching this show, and it's
Speaker 2: like that, you know, that kind of subjugation is there's
Speaker 2: a very real spiritual essence to that.
Speaker 1: You said something earlier that I think is very important
Speaker 1: that every spiritual and religious theological understanding has a piece
Speaker 1: of the overall puzzle. And I've been saying this a
Speaker 1: lot lately. All of these understandings are like puzzle pieces.
Speaker 1: But as long as they say separate and we keep
Speaker 1: dismissing each other's beliefs and we don't come together and
Speaker 1: compare notes on any of this stuff, the puzzle will
Speaker 1: never be solved. But I think the way to solve
Speaker 1: it is to take all these understandings, put them together,
Speaker 1: sift through it, see what doesn't make sense as a whole,
Speaker 1: and then you have a better understanding, at least of
Speaker 1: some of the spiritual concepts. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: it's all about, putting all these understandings together, taking out
Speaker 1: the bs that had probably been inserted over the centuries
Speaker 1: by the parasitic ruling class, and having these better understandings
Speaker 1: of these spiritual concepts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I as I get older, like I said earlier,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to bring these people together because there's, like
Speaker 2: you said, there's value in what they provide. You know.
Speaker 2: I was one of those, you know, after I spent
Speaker 2: you know, eighteen nineteen years in Christianity. When I got
Speaker 2: out of it, I was jaded by it. You know.
Speaker 2: I was like, like they just tried to deceive me
Speaker 2: from my whole life. You know, I was like mad,
Speaker 2: you know, and I think that that's part of the cycle,
Speaker 2: you know, because now I feel like I'm full circle
Speaker 2: and now, you know, a days a week, you know,
Speaker 2: I played basketball at different churches, and I started kind
Speaker 2: of having like this little like sort of like Bible study,
Speaker 2: even though I'm a non believer, but we started kind
Speaker 2: of having like this Bible study based on some of
Speaker 2: my questions to them, right, And it was It's interesting
Speaker 2: because you know, I'm reminded that just because our beliefs
Speaker 2: don't match up, these are beautiful people like that there
Speaker 2: are awesome human beings regardless. You know, the fact that
Speaker 2: they don't believe what I believe. Is it relevant? You know,
Speaker 2: It's like Morphia said on the Matrix, you know, when
Speaker 2: the General was telling them, he said, Morphia, it's not
Speaker 2: everybody believes what you believe, and he said, my beliefs
Speaker 2: do not require them to I don't need you to
Speaker 2: believe what I believe in order for me to see
Speaker 2: your value, for me to understand that you have something
Speaker 2: to contribute. And if you know, I just I imagine
Speaker 2: what the world could be when if people could have
Speaker 2: their beliefs. I don't want to take anybody's beliefs away
Speaker 2: from them, because that's the that's their beliefs, you know.
Speaker 2: Now if it even if I don't think it makes sense,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like that doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 2: Like I'm sure there's things that I believe that you know,
Speaker 2: some staunch atheists would be like, oh, that's like you know,
Speaker 2: like that's you know, you believe in the spirit, you know.
Speaker 2: So I don't mind not I don't mind somebody believing
Speaker 2: something that I don't understand. But when you have the
Speaker 2: need to be right to the point where you won't
Speaker 2: entertain any degree of value and it's something else, that's
Speaker 2: when it becomes problematic. I think, and I think that
Speaker 2: the spiritual systems in the religions would do well to actually,
Speaker 2: you know, check those things, because that's what leads people
Speaker 2: out of their religions. You know, I'm watching people go
Speaker 2: through that, you know, and I've been through it, so
Speaker 2: I'm like, I understand, this is not a comfortable place
Speaker 2: to be at. You know. I always thought about it
Speaker 2: in the sense of, like, you know, when I was
Speaker 2: a Christian, I had something like, you know, I had
Speaker 2: something inside that was like, yeah, you know, you can
Speaker 2: hold on to that. It's really disturbing when you don't
Speaker 2: have anything there, you know, when it's like a hole
Speaker 2: inside of you, you know, and you have to like, eventually,
Speaker 2: I think that for people on the spiritual path, they
Speaker 2: figure out what they actually believe as opposed to what
Speaker 2: they were told they had to believe.
Speaker 1: Well, I had a very similar path, especially through my childhood.
Speaker 1: I grew up Catholic. Was years that I didn't have
Speaker 1: any spiritual beliefs because I was jaded by the Catholic
Speaker 1: Church and some of the experiences that I've had with it.
Speaker 1: But it's all really come full circle, and just like
Speaker 1: you said, I can look back at everything and have
Speaker 1: this understanding that I am here to help others to
Speaker 1: gain a better understanding of many of these spiritual concepts.
Speaker 1: That's why I've covered so many different spiritual beliefs and
Speaker 1: understandings on this show. Is because I do believe that
Speaker 1: every one of them has very valuable information to contribute
Speaker 1: to everything. I know you wanted to get into mindfulness
Speaker 1: and meditation a bit, and there are many that don't
Speaker 1: really understand the purpose or the benefits and don't see
Speaker 1: how just sitting there and closing your eyes and doing
Speaker 1: nothing could be beneficial in any way. But tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about your meditation journey and what you've
Speaker 1: gotten from it.
Speaker 2: Well, it was funny that you said, you know, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, there's people that don't understand the benefits of
Speaker 2: you know, just closing your eyes. And it's funny because
Speaker 2: I just had this conversation with my dad when I,
Speaker 2: you know, I was telling him about some of the
Speaker 2: meditation classes that you know, I've held, and he was.
Speaker 6: Just like, it's like, I just don't get it. He's like,
Speaker 6: you're just sitting there. He's like, I can I do
Speaker 6: that by myself? I was like, I was like, I get,
Speaker 6: I get where you're coming from. But to me, mindfulness
Speaker 6: is about choosing the direction of your thoughts. You know,
Speaker 6: I when I had first started meditating, maybe I haven't
Speaker 6: been meditating that long, to be honest, you know, but
Speaker 6: it had such a momentous kind of effect on my life.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe eight months ago. I started eight nine
Speaker 2: months ago, and it became it quickly became something where
Speaker 2: it was like, I need to do this as much
Speaker 2: as I possibly can, because you know, I you know,
Speaker 2: I have children. I don't want to be short with
Speaker 2: my children. I don't want to be in a state
Speaker 2: of mind where I'm starting arguments with my wife, you know,
Speaker 2: like I don't want to be at odds with my
Speaker 2: parents or but like I don't. That's a waste of life.
Speaker 2: It's it's a waste of life to just be, uh
Speaker 2: walking around angry all the time because things aren't exactly
Speaker 2: how you want them to be. And you know, I started,
Speaker 2: I started meditating in the shower because you know, the
Speaker 2: shower has always been my refuge since always been the place,
Speaker 2: you know. Uh So I eventually started, you know, I
Speaker 2: had to harmonize the environment. You know, Let's make it.
Speaker 2: Let's make it into you know, sort of like some
Speaker 2: kind of of a holy place or something, and let's
Speaker 2: make a ritual of it, you know, because I feel
Speaker 2: so different at the end of the meditation that you know,
Speaker 2: you can see what it is on the other side
Speaker 2: of it, where you're like, you know, I come home
Speaker 2: from work, I feel drained. I feel you know, far
Speaker 2: away from myself, far away from my dreams, far away
Speaker 2: from compassion, and you know, I feel beat up and stuff.
Speaker 2: And then when I get into my meditation, I'm just
Speaker 2: starting to remind myself that there is more going on
Speaker 2: here than just the mundane, everyday grind of it. That
Speaker 2: there's something bigger that's happening, which is undoubtedly true. Whether
Speaker 2: or not I have it right, I don't know, but
Speaker 2: it's like, there is undoubtedly something bigger happening, and I'm not.
Speaker 2: I think we sort of become entrained into ignoring the
Speaker 2: bigger thing that's happening so that we can tune into
Speaker 2: the drama of society, the drama of you're in every day.
Speaker 2: Oh the guy cut you off and they forgot your
Speaker 2: bagel at the cafe, like you know, we get we
Speaker 2: get so you know, entrenched in those thoughts that we
Speaker 2: begin to define our lives by these sort of mundane concepts.
Speaker 2: And when I started to discover that you could really
Speaker 2: tune into much higher properties much higher concepts and define
Speaker 2: your life through those. It just seemed like a no
Speaker 2: brainer to me that I would much rather spend my
Speaker 2: life in that kind text then to live a life
Speaker 2: where I just thought that life was about the you know,
Speaker 2: the everyday uh, you know, just the everyday grind of it.
Speaker 2: You know, that's I've watched that. They call it a grind,
Speaker 2: and it's funny because it does. It grinds people up.
Speaker 2: And then you know, I've seen so many people who,
Speaker 2: you know, that while they're living, it's like almost like
Speaker 2: they're a corpse, Like it's like they're waiting to die.
Speaker 2: And you know, like I said, I think that there's
Speaker 2: not to say, and I understand that so many people
Speaker 2: have to go through that, and we we largely live
Speaker 2: lives that we don't necessarily won but that, but we
Speaker 2: do have a choice and we can begin to change it.
Speaker 2: I think you, you know, you would with the discovery
Speaker 2: you know, as a listener to you, you know, you
Speaker 2: had that discovery process of the fact that you could
Speaker 2: take your you could take hold of your life and
Speaker 2: you could begin to form it in the way that
Speaker 2: you want it. And a lot of people think that
Speaker 2: that is completely nonsensical. They don't think it's possible, and
Speaker 2: it's like, but that's as it's sort of the you know,
Speaker 2: if you're not really trying to do what you think
Speaker 2: you're supposed to be doing, what is life? You know,
Speaker 2: it's just you making people money, you know, you never
Speaker 2: having enough money. You know, it's I just didn't want
Speaker 2: to live like that. And I and for anybody who
Speaker 2: has the inclination that they don't want to live like that,
Speaker 2: I want to provide them as much support as I
Speaker 2: possibly can too go down that road to believe in that.
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by what can be achieved with altered states,
Speaker 1: whether it be natural, meditative states, or with the use
Speaker 1: of plant medicines or entheogens. I'm not a proponent of
Speaker 1: pharmaceuticals or narcotic drug use or anything, but certain types
Speaker 1: of plant medicines can be very effective in healing and
Speaker 1: achieving these profound states of awareness. I owe so much
Speaker 1: to meditation and psychedelics as to where I am now
Speaker 1: and where I'm going in my understanding of all these
Speaker 1: spiritual concepts and myself. Basically, there are many crossovers of
Speaker 1: what we could experience through meditation, dreams, hypnagogic states. Any
Speaker 1: of these types of altered states can cause us to
Speaker 1: access this information field and even what I would consider
Speaker 1: intelligences that always reside beyond our perception. But I think
Speaker 1: there's also layers of reality that we can access, higher
Speaker 1: and lower vibrational realms of intelligence and information that we
Speaker 1: can access through these altered states. Now, for you, was
Speaker 1: it just a sense of peace that you were getting
Speaker 1: or were you able to access any kinds of new
Speaker 1: understandings and information.
Speaker 2: Well, I think for me, you know, because I've you know,
Speaker 2: I've been gaged definitely in the past, you know, with
Speaker 2: plant medicines, and I always remembered what I couldn't. I
Speaker 2: don't remember who said. I don't know if it was
Speaker 2: Alan Wats who said it, but he said he said,
Speaker 2: when when you get the message.
Speaker 5: Hang up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he was saying, like, once you get the message,
Speaker 2: hang up, He's like, don't, don't, don't, don't. Don't make
Speaker 2: it a thing where it becomes where you're continuously searching
Speaker 2: for the message that you're that you're getting, you know,
Speaker 2: And that was kind of what was in my mind
Speaker 2: the last time I had that, I had like a trip.
Speaker 2: I was you know, it was some years ago. I
Speaker 2: remember I was with a buddy of mine and uh,
Speaker 2: you know, we I remember we ended up going to
Speaker 2: a bar. It was kind of right next to his house.
Speaker 2: And I was seeing people, you know, and I'm, you know,
Speaker 2: they don't I'm I thought I was hiding it pretty well.
Speaker 2: You know, I thought I was hiding it pretty well.
Speaker 2: But when you see people in those states, right, you
Speaker 2: start you can see what's beyond the layers of you know,
Speaker 2: what you see in front of you. And people were
Speaker 2: just like I was just I was just amazed by people.
Speaker 2: And I think that that concept because you know, in
Speaker 2: the days after it, right, like you're like, did I
Speaker 2: retain anything from that, like, you know, because it's like
Speaker 2: I went on the trip, What did I take from it?
Speaker 2: What were the spoils of the trip? Right? And I
Speaker 2: was trying to figure it out, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I think the thing that I got that last time
Speaker 2: was the the intense appreciation for people, because people are
Speaker 2: amazing and a lot of the time they're so caught
Speaker 2: up in h the fact that they make mistakes, the
Speaker 2: fact that they've done things and let themselves down, and
Speaker 2: some people don't like them, and you know, they let
Speaker 2: all those things kind of take away from their greatness.
Speaker 2: All you gotta do really is sit with somebody long
Speaker 2: enough and you start to like understand like what was
Speaker 2: once kind of like, I've always been attracted to people
Speaker 2: who were somewhat outcasted people. I've often felt outcasted in
Speaker 2: my life, so I've always been drawn to those people.
Speaker 2: But once you take time right to listen to them,
Speaker 2: you start to realize that they're there's there's these beautiful
Speaker 2: parts in them. And that's where I see the divine
Speaker 2: in a person. You know, not to say that I
Speaker 2: guess the entire the person is divine, but the reality
Speaker 2: is is that when it shines through and you're reminded
Speaker 2: that you know, this person is here just like me,
Speaker 2: you know that they're here as an aspect of their creator,
Speaker 2: putting this life, trying to, you know, figure out what's
Speaker 2: going on here just like me. You know. That's I
Speaker 2: think that that's the biggest thing that that plant medicines
Speaker 2: gave me. And then I feel like mindfulness helps me
Speaker 2: to cultivate that and too to remember the beauty of
Speaker 2: people and things, and you know, just just to be grateful,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean like it's it sounds like
Speaker 2: a really like corny thing, but like gratitude is really
Speaker 2: like a superpower. It's you know, like people don't Sometimes
Speaker 2: they tell somebody to be grateful and they're like for what,
Speaker 2: Like what do you even mean? Like be mad at
Speaker 2: you because you told them to be grateful for things?
Speaker 2: But it's funny because when you really start to think
Speaker 2: about it, there is an unn there is an infinite
Speaker 2: number of things to be grateful. You'll never actually run
Speaker 2: out if you made a list in your head, right,
Speaker 2: you would never actually run out of things to be
Speaker 2: grateful for, But you have gratitude to finish. No, what
Speaker 2: I was gonna say was like gratitude it helps you
Speaker 2: to I think it raises you vibrationally because once you
Speaker 2: start to feel like, oh I'm not a lot of
Speaker 2: times we feel like we're at a loss. We don't
Speaker 2: have enough of this, we don't have that, we don't
Speaker 2: have the thing that that person, you know. But gratitude
Speaker 2: that you see that you actually possess plenty, you know,
Speaker 2: And that's that's that's where I like to be at,
Speaker 2: you know, not in a state of scarceness.
Speaker 1: Man, I agree. One hundred percent. I love what you said.
Speaker 1: Gratitude is like a superpower. I couldn't agree more with that.
Speaker 1: I have made it just a natural thing every day,
Speaker 1: either when I leave the house or when I wake
Speaker 1: up and remember about it, I thank God, I thank
Speaker 1: the universe. I am blessed, and I'm so grateful for
Speaker 1: everything I have. And I don't think there's a day
Speaker 1: that goes by that I am just not thanking either
Speaker 1: someone or God or even myself. You know there that
Speaker 1: you have to thank yourself for things as well, because
Speaker 1: you have to give yourself a lot more credit than
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people do. And you said
Speaker 1: something that is very important about psychedelics that when you
Speaker 1: get the message, hang it up. This was very true
Speaker 1: for me as well. It took a few years of explorations,
Speaker 1: but I did finally get that message, and it was
Speaker 1: so strong and very profound, and after I was able
Speaker 1: to process it, it was very apparent that I didn't
Speaker 1: need to have those explorations anymore. I got the message,
Speaker 1: and now was time to just start integrating everything. And
Speaker 1: that is the most important part is in this material,
Speaker 1: realm using the information and utilizing it in a positive way.
Speaker 1: Now for the last few minutes of this show. I
Speaker 1: know you wanted to get into what is unfolding now,
Speaker 1: political polarization, the craziness that is permeating through our conspiracy culture.
Speaker 1: I look back at twenty twenty and there's been a
Speaker 1: very rapid progression of things. It started out where we
Speaker 1: were coming together as a community to try and understand
Speaker 1: what was going on. People were realizing that there was
Speaker 1: a fundamental problem with our government and ruling class and
Speaker 1: that we were being lied to. And then we get
Speaker 1: the reaction from the parasitic ruling class to flood the
Speaker 1: Internet and to flood our community with bad information, causing division,
Speaker 1: and it's getting worse and worse. And now we have
Speaker 1: this political season where they're throwing theological concepts into the
Speaker 1: campaigns and throughout this election cycle, and it's becoming so
Speaker 1: insane and divisive. So there's a lot happening right now,
Speaker 1: and i'd love to get your insights into how everything's unfolding.
Speaker 2: Oh man, it's it's uh, it's such a such a
Speaker 2: sight to behold. I mean, the other day, my son
Speaker 2: and my daughter were on YouTube and you know they're
Speaker 2: watching They're watching like Pokemon unboxing and stuff, and then
Speaker 2: it just became so a parent of how wild it
Speaker 2: is that you're gonna put a political ad on a
Speaker 2: Pokemon YouTube video. But you know, my kids are sitting
Speaker 2: there talking about Charis Art and then ah, then now
Speaker 2: they're talking about, uh, this politician this and he did that,
Speaker 2: and it's just like you're throwing this stuff in. It's
Speaker 2: becoming so obnoxious that I'm like, I'm I wonder, Like
Speaker 2: with the public relations people, it's just like who thought
Speaker 2: it was a good idea to have, like because it
Speaker 2: was a conservative ad. They're showing all of the issues
Speaker 2: that they find. So they have like some guy at
Speaker 2: some some some pride parade and he's got like some
Speaker 2: chaps on and like all this stuff. And it's like
Speaker 2: so so you're like, so you're okay with so you
Speaker 2: have a problem with it, but you're okay with ultimately
Speaker 2: letting that play during children's videos on YouTube, Like because
Speaker 2: now I have to answer a question right now, you know, dad,
Speaker 2: what's up with the guy? Why they got it? Why
Speaker 2: is it blurring his chest out? It's just like I
Speaker 2: wonder sometimes because I grew up in a very conservative
Speaker 2: minded place, right, like a lot of my friends growing up,
Speaker 2: you know currently, you know that, you know, they're Trump voters,
Speaker 2: they're they're conservatives. They but I also grew up with
Speaker 2: a lot of people who were, you know, more liberal
Speaker 2: minded people, And in this time now I find myself
Speaker 2: having conversations with people just trying to get them to
Speaker 2: acknowledge the value of people on the other side of
Speaker 2: their artists, because they've you know, I have a I
Speaker 2: had a you know, I have a cousin and some
Speaker 2: years ago he said there are no good people who
Speaker 2: ever voted for Trump. And I was like, I know,
Speaker 2: I know, like they're some of them my friends, Like
Speaker 2: what do you like, what do you mean He's like, no,
Speaker 2: it's impossible. And now, you know, I have a buddy,
Speaker 2: you know who you know, he's kind of at this
Speaker 2: this point where you know, he's so done with with
Speaker 2: h liberals, you know that, like he's easily triggered by them,
Speaker 2: and I have to like try to rein him back,
Speaker 2: like I like, you know, like I know that you
Speaker 2: attached these things to these people people, but you don't.
Speaker 2: Let don't don't fall into the concept that your political
Speaker 2: affiliation makes you a better person somehow than this person
Speaker 2: just because you guys support like it, you know from
Speaker 2: a person you know, I think people more, you know
Speaker 2: my perspective, and what sounds like your perspective is is
Speaker 2: we're sort of we're sort of we've sort of removed
Speaker 2: ourselves from like the two party system, Like we're not
Speaker 2: like we see that these are two sides of the
Speaker 2: same coin. We see there's nothing that I can do
Speaker 2: to get myself to to start believing in it, you know,
Speaker 2: Like my dad's always coming to me and he's like,
Speaker 2: he's like, you registered vote, you know, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I I just can't. Based off of what I've listened
Speaker 2: to people say, Saul d I can't fall into that
Speaker 2: paradigm anymore. Because the idea that these political characters that
Speaker 2: they put out are somehow the most powerful people on
Speaker 2: the face of the planet. That seems like one of
Speaker 2: the craziest things that a person could ever believe. Like
Speaker 2: they don't even have enough money to be that powerful, Like,
Speaker 2: but they this is the role that they've been given,
Speaker 2: and the people believe in the roles, and you know, ultimately,
Speaker 2: all it serves to do is to further divide the people.
Speaker 2: And that's my biggest Yeah, man, it's just dividing.
Speaker 1: I think we're being gas lit on an extreme level.
Speaker 1: The theatrics are beyond ridiculous. You can look at both
Speaker 1: sides and example, Trump at a rally talking about if
Speaker 1: Christians go out to vote, we're gonna solve everything and
Speaker 1: you'll never have to vote again. This dude actually said that.
Speaker 1: It's like, what do you.
Speaker 2: Mean by that?
Speaker 1: Then you go to the Kamala rally where she's basically
Speaker 1: saying Christians aren't welcome. This man yells christ is king,
Speaker 1: and she's like, you're at the wrong rally. Now, I
Speaker 1: don't care what your spiritual beliefs are. That's not a
Speaker 1: presidential thing to do when you're campaigning. So it's so
Speaker 1: ridiculous on both sides, and you have people that are
Speaker 1: basically worshiping their candidate as an idol, as a savior
Speaker 1: that they're really gonna make a difference in their lives.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the result of the election won't
Speaker 1: affect us each individually in different ways, because it will.
Speaker 1: It's gonna affect each and every one of us. But
Speaker 1: we have to be aware that both sides are part
Speaker 1: of the same thing. Just like you were saying yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's the thing. You just have to be
Speaker 2: aware of the fact that you are watching theatrics, and
Speaker 2: for a lot of people, they don't. They're not viewing
Speaker 2: it like that. They're viewing it as some sense of
Speaker 2: with some sense of reality. And I think once you,
Speaker 2: I think people especially who come out of conspiracy culture,
Speaker 2: you start to understand that the structure of the world,
Speaker 2: the structure of the power of the world, is not
Speaker 2: how it's marketed, you know, like they don't like there
Speaker 2: are you know, I think for a lot of people,
Speaker 2: and maybe I don't know, maybe it was just me,
Speaker 2: but I think a lot of people saw with you know,
Speaker 2: with COVID, when you saw all those countries in the
Speaker 2: world get on the same accord. It lets you understand
Speaker 2: that there was the presence of something that transcended individual
Speaker 2: government like you let you understand that there is this
Speaker 2: presence in the world right that can align all of
Speaker 2: these things. You know, these people don't agree about nothing,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, these nations are always in odds. Supposedly,
Speaker 2: they're always chirping back. It's like wrestling, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. They're always chirping back and forth. But you know,
Speaker 2: when the commissioner comes in and says, Okay, this is
Speaker 2: how the story's going, and you know, readjusts it. It
Speaker 2: shows that there is something that goes above government that
Speaker 2: is the facilitator of this world. And I think some
Speaker 2: people would call that, you know, an arconic presence, or
Speaker 2: some would call it dmonic someone you know. But ultimately,
Speaker 2: whatever it is, it seems to be there, and I
Speaker 2: highly doubt that it cares whether that comes through the
Speaker 2: mouth of Kamala Hairs or Trump. Whatever it is up
Speaker 2: for the world, that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I go back and forth with what you were saying.
Speaker 1: This arconic force, it seems at times it presents itself
Speaker 1: as though it wants us to be aware of it,
Speaker 1: almost as if it's tired of doing its job and
Speaker 1: it wants us to start taking accountability. And that also
Speaker 1: leads me to think that maybe it's all part of
Speaker 1: a greater force that is awakening humanity, and all of
Speaker 1: this is happening to serve a greater purpose. Like you
Speaker 1: said earlier, these clowns are playing their role and they
Speaker 1: believe they're doing this for their own self serving purposes,
Speaker 1: but in reality, there is something else possibly guiding the
Speaker 1: whole thing in a certain direction. What do you think
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that has to
Speaker 2: do with I don't know. If it's powerful families, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know if it's off world. I
Speaker 2: don't know what it is. But whatever it is has
Speaker 2: figured out in some way that it does not value life, right.
Speaker 2: It's it's self serving in the sense where it would
Speaker 2: create a living hell for the vast majority of humanity
Speaker 2: just so that it could. I don't even know prosper
Speaker 2: in some way, but that that presence seems to exist.
Speaker 2: And I don't put names on it or anything like
Speaker 2: that because I don't claim to know, but surely that
Speaker 2: thing seems to exist here, because this world we live
Speaker 2: in is not the world that I think most of
Speaker 2: us would create if given the ability to make a.
Speaker 1: World perspective that I struggle with. Has this reality been
Speaker 1: hijacked at some point? Are we being subjected to this
Speaker 1: arconic intelligence that continues to perpetually keep us in this
Speaker 1: slave state? Now, that could be the case, but I
Speaker 1: am very optimistic about things, and the way I see
Speaker 1: it is that either way, we are starting to become
Speaker 1: aware of it. I think that there are fundamental changes
Speaker 1: occurring in individuals' lives like yours and mine, and many
Speaker 1: listeners and many people that have started on their spiritual path.
Speaker 1: I also see that there's a lot of people who
Speaker 1: have no spiritual foundation who are exploring these concepts and
Speaker 1: getting lost, becoming insane, going mad. It's very important, especially
Speaker 1: for me, once I started going down these rabbit holes,
Speaker 1: to have some sort of spiritual understanding about the bigger picture,
Speaker 1: because if you just stay with the surface material stuff,
Speaker 1: you will get lost in it and it will never
Speaker 1: make sense and it will just lead to madness for
Speaker 1: most people. That's why you see a lot of people
Speaker 1: who start to look into this stuff start to get
Speaker 1: a spiritual foundation, and I am encouraged that that will
Speaker 1: continue to unfold as time moves on and whatever insanity
Speaker 1: they throw at us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my hope, you know, I like you said,
Speaker 2: you when you try to maintain some degree of positivity,
Speaker 2: you almost have to look at it from the standpoint
Speaker 2: of you know, when we talk about our creator, I
Speaker 2: think we put we sometimes have a way of putting
Speaker 2: our well, like, well that thing has to be all
Speaker 2: good or what you would call all good because well,
Speaker 2: that's what I strive to be. But it's like I
Speaker 2: think our creator brings all things, not just what I
Speaker 2: think is good or what somebody thinks is good. There's
Speaker 2: all there's these different aspects that have to do with
Speaker 2: you know, there are different aspects that you know, we
Speaker 2: define as good and evil, but these are these are
Speaker 2: just words really, you know, like I was saying to
Speaker 2: my dad the other day, you know, there may be
Speaker 2: there's somebody in some third world country right now who
Speaker 2: hears about the United States and how it's citizens, fund
Speaker 2: it's military to go do whatever it does in the world,
Speaker 2: and then like all those people must be evil. So
Speaker 2: some there's there's people who think that us, just as
Speaker 2: being Americans, are evil, right, And these are largely just
Speaker 2: that mean, you know, I'm not trying to say that
Speaker 2: they don't have a perspective, but it's all perceptual. It's
Speaker 2: all about you know, there's there's somebody who who thinks
Speaker 2: ill of you. There's somebody who defines you by your
Speaker 2: negative attributes. But it's up to you to gravitate towards
Speaker 2: whichever you know, to the side you want to. Like,
Speaker 2: if you're we have to. I think one of the
Speaker 2: problems that we end up having is is that we uh,
Speaker 2: we don't understand that in ourselves is some degree of darkness,
Speaker 2: and we don't. We don't like to acknowledge it. We
Speaker 2: were taught to be shameful of it, to hide it,
Speaker 2: and ultimately to forget about it. But it's like that,
Speaker 2: I don't I just don't see that as the natural
Speaker 2: order of how things are. You know, there always seems
Speaker 2: to be a dualistic concept.
Speaker 1: It makes me wonder if we could have spiritual growth
Speaker 1: and spiritual evolution without conflict and adversity. It's like in
Speaker 1: the Matrix, we created a perfect world for you guys,
Speaker 1: but you hated it, so we had to throw in
Speaker 1: some darkness and evil in there so that you could
Speaker 1: be content. I think that we, on some level we
Speaker 1: need some of the darkness so that we can choose
Speaker 1: the light. Basically, we learn from the darkness. There's many
Speaker 1: people that probably gravitate towards it and embrace the darkness,
Speaker 1: and that's probably a way to lose the game. I
Speaker 1: think that we're supposed to learn from it and then
Speaker 1: grab towards the light. And I think that's what could
Speaker 1: be happening on a larger scale with humanity is we
Speaker 1: are experiencing darkness, we're learning from it, and we're also
Speaker 1: learning whether we want to align with that or we
Speaker 1: want something better for ourselves. And I'm hoping that the
Speaker 1: majority of people will eventually learn that the darkness has
Speaker 1: no benefit and that embracing what's good is not only
Speaker 1: going to benefit them, but the whole of humanity. So,
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm optimistic. I know that there's probably
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of turmoil in our future.
Speaker 1: But what would you say to people in closing that
Speaker 1: are looking for some sort of spiritual understanding and how
Speaker 1: to navigate some of the times that we might be phasing.
Speaker 2: Well, I think now, you know, in this time, like
Speaker 2: you said, we expect turmol. I was just thinking not
Speaker 2: too long ago about how we you know, us living
Speaker 2: in I would say, a Christianized society, not to say
Speaker 2: that that's like some evil thing, but just as a byproduct,
Speaker 2: a lot of me studying Christianity now is about how
Speaker 2: do these things connect with my psychology how I think
Speaker 2: about things. So I was thinking the other day about,
Speaker 2: you know how for the last two thousand years within
Speaker 2: Christian society. We've continuously lived in societies that were trained
Speaker 2: to believe that the world was about to end at
Speaker 2: any minute. Right, So even back then, right they were
Speaker 2: expecting it to happen any day. Jesus said it was,
Speaker 2: you know, happened any day. And we've continuously sort of
Speaker 2: lived in these societies where we always we always think
Speaker 2: the end of the world is right around the corner.
Speaker 2: There's always somebody there, you know, whether it's here two thousand,
Speaker 2: twenty eleven or twenty twelve, or there's always somebody. I
Speaker 2: love watching those videos where, you know, people's prophecies that
Speaker 2: don't that fall through, because we're always thinking that it's
Speaker 2: that moment where the world can't take anymore too, it's
Speaker 2: at the boiling point. And I think we perpetually lived
Speaker 2: in that so long that we just normalize it. Now
Speaker 2: we're like, well, yeah, of course, you know. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: if he gets in there, it's over, if she gets
Speaker 2: in there, it's over. It's just business as usual for us.
Speaker 2: We're always thinking the world about that. So have some
Speaker 2: understanding if you if you if you're feeling some kind
Speaker 2: of way about this, have some understanding that at other
Speaker 2: times in history, other people thought the same way, and
Speaker 2: somehow humanity found its way to continue. I have a
Speaker 2: deep degree of faith in humanity that regardless of what
Speaker 2: is thrown at it, we are resilient and we figure
Speaker 2: out how to overcome. We are champions. That's that's that's
Speaker 2: why you watch movies. You watch movies so you can
Speaker 2: see the protagonist through the change journey. But the protagonist
Speaker 2: is you. It's that hero's journey. It's the protagonist. This
Speaker 2: is always a picture of you. This is not just you,
Speaker 2: but us. This is who we are. We we we
Speaker 2: we fail. It's like I heard somebody say that no God.
Speaker 2: Bob Proctor listened to him a lot, he's a great speaker.
Speaker 2: But he said he talked to an astronaut. He said,
Speaker 2: the astronaut told him that when a ship is going
Speaker 2: to the moon, it fails all the way to the moon.
Speaker 2: So it's constantly failing and course corrected. It's failing and
Speaker 2: it's course corrected. I believe that's what we're doing, you know.
Speaker 2: We we're trying to figure out how to live on
Speaker 2: this planet, how to get along as well as we
Speaker 2: possibly can. We don't always get it right. Sometimes we
Speaker 2: mess it up. But ultimately I believe that, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't believe that I'll be alive when on that day,
Speaker 2: but I believe, I hold out belief in humanity that
Speaker 2: we will one day figure out how to live with
Speaker 2: some better degree of harmony in this world. And like
Speaker 2: you were saying about with spirituality and meditation, I think
Speaker 2: that those are tools and coming into the realization that
Speaker 2: everything that you've put outside of you is actually connected
Speaker 2: to you in some way. You know. I know what
Speaker 2: it's like to go outside and too for everything to
Speaker 2: look like it's outside of me and opposed to me.
Speaker 2: And I also know what it's like to walk outside
Speaker 2: and feel in harmony. And if that's something that you would,
Speaker 2: you know, want to integrate into your life, it's absolutely possible.
Speaker 2: It's it's a it is not it's not an overnight thing,
Speaker 2: you know this, But the more you see the value
Speaker 2: in it, the more you do it, you know, I
Speaker 2: think the better your experience here will be.
Speaker 1: It's like my friend Birch Driver says that there's this
Speaker 1: illusion amongst humanity of separation, when if we just realized
Speaker 1: that we are all one, that would solve the conflict
Speaker 1: in our reality. But will thank you so much. This
Speaker 1: was great information. Before we close out, let everyone know
Speaker 1: how they can find out more about you, pick up
Speaker 1: your book all the good stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, you know you if you really want to get
Speaker 2: a hold of me Willbaby at gmail dot com. I'm
Speaker 2: you know, I'm waiting for you to flood me now,
Speaker 2: but uh but but absolutely, I'll I'll send uh, I'll
Speaker 2: give I'll give Chris link to my uh my ebook
Speaker 2: if you want to check it out. I think it's
Speaker 2: five dollars on gum rude. But it's you know, like
Speaker 2: I said, it's it's what maybe thirteen pages or so,
Speaker 2: but it's not long, it's concise, and I wrote it
Speaker 2: with the intent to try to help people. So if
Speaker 2: you know, if you're into it, definitely go check it.
Speaker 1: Excellent. I will have that link right in the description,
Speaker 1: Will if you could just send me that when you
Speaker 1: need a chance. Absolutely, it was a great conversation. I'd
Speaker 1: love to do this again and until next time, everyone,
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