WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.359 --> 00:00:08.800 This is an Unspoiled Network podcast. This is spoil Me 2 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:20.800 covering Dungeon Crawler Carl Book five The Butcher's Masquerade chapters five, six, seven, eight, 3 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:25.440 But but them, Sorry, guys, I just got away from 4 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:33.600 me for a second. In these chapters, for once, Carl's 5 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:41.479 plan wasn't great. He really overestimated himself this time. There 6 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:43.479 are plenty of times where his plans haven't worked out, 7 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:45.320 shit's happened, But this is the first. 8 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:50.399 Time that I was like, really, dude, come now. Welcome 9 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:51.799 to spoil Me. 10 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:13.680 Welcome to the show everyone. I am Natasha. Thank you 11 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:20.439 very much to Jackie for commissioning this episode. The saraph 12 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:23.480 EM's got a comment here in the chat. This opening 13 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:26.239 bit summed up, get out there and kill kill kill Wait, no, 14 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.239 not them. The thing is, though, it seems like they 15 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:32.239 want them to do this because of the thing with 16 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:35.920 the hands, so I can't even say that. It's like 17 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:39.040 they go wait, not them, because they seem to be 18 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:42.959 fine with it. Michael says, imagine being donut. She thinks 19 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:45.000 she's in for a nice day of relaxing grinding, and 20 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.400 she suddenly dragged smack dab into the middle of a 21 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:49.879 thousand hunters who want to kill her, and like, this 22 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:52.760 is exactly what I was so worried about last episode, guys, 23 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:55.719 when I said, I love that she's willing to trust Carl, 24 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:58.319 no questions asked, and I'm really worried that this is 25 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:00.840 going to result in him losing the trust. And it 26 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:04.599 literally she says, I am never doing one of your 27 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:07.760 plans again until you explain to me what it's about 28 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:10.159 to be that goes down. And I'm not mad at 29 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:13.919 her for that, For the record, she is right to 30 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:18.960 react this way. It just makes me really sad because 31 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:22.080 I loved that that was their relationship and it's so 32 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:25.319 it's like it just sucks to. 33 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:26.879 Me that it's over already. 34 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:32.080 You know, I just didn't want this for them. So 35 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:37.680 let's just start at the beginning. So chapter five we 36 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:41.879 get an opening, and that's like pretty much been the 37 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:46.039 theme in the past couple books is that the chapter 38 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:49.599 opens with like an entry from a crawler in the cookbook. 39 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:53.240 I think it's sort of interesting that what we're getting 40 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.000 into now is a little bit. 41 00:02:57.120 --> 00:02:57.919 More of. 42 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:05.520 Uncertain and t where there's a mention of like they 43 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:07.919 say that these are all the same floor, but it 44 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:12.240 seems like that can't be true because folks previously have 45 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:14.840 mentioned such and such, and we don't have those here. 46 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.159 There's always. 47 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:22.000 Points in the entries where they're like, things may vary, 48 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:25.120 you know, your results may vary. But this is the 49 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:28.439 first time that it's like we're being told a thing 50 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:34.120 that is untrue. And I find that pretty interesting personally, 51 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:39.800 just because why would they lie about it. This is 52 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:43.039 not my saying I don't believe you, because why would 53 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:45.840 they lie about it. I believe you, but I don't 54 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:47.960 understand why they would lie about it. 55 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:49.439 Both of those things. 56 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:54.560 It just feels like, what advantage do they get by 57 00:03:55.120 --> 00:04:00.919 pretending it's the same floor design every time? And I 58 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:03.479 can't think of what it could be. I really can't. 59 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:06.639 I I don't know, I don't know. I'm not coming 60 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.840 up with anything. So that has got my attention a 61 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:18.120 little bit. And he mentions that the political landscape is 62 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:22.199 the same, and that like the general setup is often similar, 63 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:25.800 but it's just that they're details that are very different. 64 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:31.879 And he mentions Elves and also Naiads and how both 65 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:35.759 of them fucking suck and if you approach them. 66 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:36.839 They will attack. 67 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:39.519 They don't give a shit, and that you know, it's 68 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:41.759 like a sort of free for all with them, so 69 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:43.399 it is advised to. 70 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.000 Leave them the fuck alone. 71 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:52.199 And the idea of like, well, these things are as 72 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:53.120 bad as each other. 73 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.000 Why do I feel like our guys are. 74 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:00.199 Going to make the fucking Naiads and or Elves the 75 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:05.399 center of some plan at some point? There's just something 76 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:11.720 about this warning that had me personally going, ah, jeez, 77 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:15.959 oh boy, what is that? What are we gonna do? 78 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:24.319 I just I got a bad feeling about this. Michael says, 79 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:26.199 I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I 80 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.839 appreciate Matt being willing to put in characters who are 81 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:31.879 more competent than Carl. Too many series in this genre 82 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:35.000 feel the need to slabber all over their main characters 83 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:39.920 as the greatest genius ever. I'm so sorry. It took 84 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:42.160 me a moment to understand what Michael meant by slabber 85 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:44.720 all over and I get that now. You mean like 86 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.879 they suck their main characteristick, which is very funny considering 87 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:52.240 Carl tell somebody to suck a stick this chapter. Michael 88 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:54.959 also says Miriam Dom and Pony are really, really good, 89 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:59.759 and I agree, Michael, this is something that I'm not 90 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:02.920 sure sure if I meant to agree with them on 91 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:07.639 this or not, But for the record, there comes a 92 00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:11.519 point in these chapters where Carl is like, it became 93 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:13.560 clear to me that we needed to get away from 94 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:17.680 these weirdos as soon as possible. And I was very 95 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:24.680 much like, they're just as weird as you and donut 96 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:29.399 like there's a weird dynamic here for sure, but there's 97 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:33.199 nothing about them that made me feel like you aren't 98 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:36.120 safe with them or they don't have your back. So 99 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:42.639 for me, their weirdness was extremely uninteresting and very secondary 100 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:48.079 to their competence and their abilities and all of that. 101 00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:50.879 And the fact that Carl was just like, well, we 102 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:53.600 need to get away from these guys. I was like, Carl, 103 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.079 all the thing is considered for somebody who is as 104 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:59.959 bonkers as you are, you've got a really low threshold 105 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:07.040 for weirdness in other people. Like it just felt weird 106 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:11.439 to me, how because he was like this with them 107 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:15.040 last time. This is not an isolated reaction for him. 108 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:21.839 He just has a very extreme sort of revulsion from 109 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:26.319 all of them. Like there's Miriam at one point smiles 110 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:30.199 at him, and he had been having that like warm 111 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:34.600 feeling of Mom's here to save me kind of, you know, 112 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.199 and then she smiles and reveals her teeth and he 113 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.600 is repulsed by her, and I just kind of wanted 114 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:44.000 to be like, Bro, they did this to her, though, 115 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:49.360 you are being framed in a way that isn't fair 116 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:56.160 on all of the wrap ups, because they have an 117 00:07:56.199 --> 00:08:02.160 agenda in making you not appeal to certain crawlers as 118 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:05.680 like somebody that they want to cooperate with. This is 119 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:08.040 a thing that they do on purpose. 120 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.120 And I just. 121 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:14.319 Felt like the fact that he reacted so strongly to 122 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.639 her teeth with like, this isn't something that she wanted. 123 00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:21.800 This isn't something that is like a race that she chose, 124 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:25.040 and she only drinks blood from things that Prepotente has 125 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:29.120 already killed because she clearly like just feels a way. 126 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:30.279 About having to do this. 127 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:38.960 I just didn't understand the intensity of his reaction to 128 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.720 them overall, and I know that I'm getting ahead of myself. 129 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:46.159 I'm sorry, but since Michael brought up Miriam and Prepotente, 130 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:52.159 I just like there's just something about how harsh Carl 131 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.320 is toward them that I was genuinely puzzled by, because 132 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.559 they feel like really good allies to have and they 133 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.440 have like been there more more than once for you. 134 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:05.000 And as is said later when he gets in this 135 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.440 stupid argument with prepotente A, Miriam's like that wasn't very nice, Carl. 136 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:12.440 We did save your life, and she was like dead right, 137 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:17.600 you know, I I don't know. There's just Karl occasionally 138 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:25.120 will have priorities in who he deems like cool to 139 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.320 hang out with or rely on that I don't really 140 00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:30.399 understand because I thought it was going to be about 141 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:35.240 competence and variety of abilities and whether or not they 142 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.639 are decent people who want to do the right thing, 143 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:40.639 and these guys check all those boxes to me. So 144 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:44.879 it's weird, you know it Just like I don't even 145 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:46.480 know if I want to say that it's out of 146 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:51.000 character exactly, because a part of me kind of wants 147 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:53.080 to say it feels out of character, but he has 148 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:58.279 done it consistently enough that it doesn't actually seem out 149 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:03.519 of character. It's just more a strange aspect of his 150 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:10.240 character that they don't really understand. Sarah him says, maybe 151 00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:12.080 he just has an issue with goats, but yeah, this 152 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:14.799 is Carl being a bit of a dumb dumb Michael says, 153 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:16.840 maybe related to what he said about Lee, Nah, he 154 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:19.600 recognized how driven incompetent she was, but he didn't think 155 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:21.840 they could party together because they drive each other to 156 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:26.320 murder the other. Maybe maybe that's what he meant about, 157 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:28.000 just like we have to get away from these guys 158 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:29.000 or else I'm gonna kill them. 159 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:29.919 Maybe it's that simple. 160 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:33.399 It just it felt much more like a judgment on 161 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.960 their personality, like that they aren't safe. And maybe I'm 162 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:40.720 just like reading that into what he said and that's 163 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:47.639 not really what he meant. That's definitely possible, So okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, 164 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:53.679 let's back up. Donut as we arrive in the city 165 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:57.399 is just like what the fuck is going on? And 166 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:03.600 again Carl is like not telling her. I really, look, 167 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:08.440 I get that part of what's happening here is that 168 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:14.120 the way that they monitor the plans that the Crawlers have, 169 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:18.960 Carl feels like he can't tell Donut because there's a 170 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:22.519 possibility that he will be stopped, that zeb will get involved, 171 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.519 that they'll tell him you can't do this, you know. 172 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:28.440 So it's it's that there is like this difficulty in 173 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:34.159 communication that means that they have to work in such 174 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:35.960 a way that they don't talk out loud to each 175 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:40.360 other about it. I maintain though, that if he had 176 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.360 really prioritized it, he could have figured it out. They 177 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.759 have that whiteboard on the inside of the bathroom. He 178 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:50.360 could have gotten Donut more on board with this plan, 179 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:58.279 and frankly her like, I feel like if she had known, 180 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.399 there's a possibility things might have gone more smoothly somehow, 181 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:07.080 you know. But I just it bothers me that he 182 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:10.799 decided it felt it felt more like he was using 183 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:14.200 the fact that it's difficult to communicate to make an 184 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:19.279 excuse for not communicating, rather than that actually being a 185 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:23.519 valid reason. It felt like he just didn't want to 186 00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:25.360 be bothered and kind of just wanted to do what 187 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:29.399 he wanted to do. And she deserves a lot better 188 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:34.679 than that. Especially, I will remind you all, bitch is 189 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:38.759 low level at this point, Like she is not in 190 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:41.480 a place where he should be excluding her from the 191 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:44.919 plan and just dragging her along as an accessory for 192 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:48.519 somebody who has repeatedly mentioned how low level she is 193 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:52.120 and that it concerns him. He's not acting like it 194 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:57.440 concerns him. He's just not you know. It bothers me 195 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:02.759 a lot that he keeps claiming this is something that 196 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:06.200 they need to work on, but also continues to treat 197 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:10.320 her like a child. Really, either this is a priority 198 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:13.399 that you really feel like you need to work on, 199 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:17.120 or you don't, and it feels like you must not. 200 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.159 It feels like that can't be of interest to you 201 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:24.440 if this is still the way that you're behaving with her. 202 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:30.200 So I just think that, Look, I'm just gonna say it, 203 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:35.320 donuts low levels are partially Carl's fault. That's just a fact. 204 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:39.320 And I'm not saying they're all his fault. I'm not, 205 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:46.200 but they're partially his fault. And the plans that they 206 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.120 come up with often do not seem to involve utilizing 207 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:55.080 her particular skill set in a way that might be like, 208 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:04.440 she has her charisma at this bonker's level, and perhaps 209 00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:07.639 there was a way that we could have utilized that 210 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:15.519 in this mix somehow, you know, But instead it just 211 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:20.519 sort of feels like she didn't even have a job 212 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.480 to do here. I correct me if I'm wrong, guys, 213 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:27.000 but it seemed like he came in, he had his 214 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.960 whole plan, and he was just sort of relying on 215 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:35.320 her as a backup for defense. But she didn't really 216 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:40.279 like the one role is within the move of Predator 217 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:43.120 where they both go invisible and she uses her feet 218 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:44.840 her heat vision goggles. 219 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:47.279 But other than that. 220 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:53.159 It was very much like he even says, if things 221 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:56.279 go bad, just go down the stairwell to the next floor. 222 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:01.480 That's really shitty, bro, that you would put her in 223 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:04.679 the position where if this plan that you didn't inform 224 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:09.639 her of goes left, she has to skip this whole 225 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.679 floor and go to the next one without having gotten 226 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:17.200 to level up or do anything before arriving there, and 227 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:20.200 you're putting her in that spot where these are her 228 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:27.600 only options. I just think that's kind of like remarkably shitty, 229 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:32.399 and it just I will say, there was a moment, 230 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:36.639 you guys after the episode, the podcast episode, after I 231 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:41.279 wrapped on recording it, and I was thinking about what 232 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.080 is it that Carl could possibly be wanting to go 233 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:47.399 to this city for, and he asks specifically like, go 234 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.799 take me to the stairwell. 235 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:52.879 In this city. 236 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:57.960 I was almost wondering, is he just trying to get 237 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:03.360 to the stairwell to skip the floor entirely, which would 238 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:07.840 have been fascinating to do as a storytelling exercise, you know, 239 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:10.519 we're expecting that this floor there's going to be a 240 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.960 whole bunch of stuff that goes down, that the story 241 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.799 is going to go a certain way, and then maybe 242 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:22.399 we just skip it entirely. I don't think that's necessarily 243 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:25.879 like a good idea, but it would certainly be fascinating 244 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.519 and there's a lot of potential within that, you know. 245 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.360 But it's a very different thing for him to put 246 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:36.720 Dona in the position where she would be the only 247 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:43.080 one doing that and possibly either leaving Carl to die 248 00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:47.919 or leaving Carl on this floor alone leveling up and 249 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.679 doing a bunch of stuff. He's already i think, more 250 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:52.320 than ten. 251 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:53.120 Levels ahead of her. 252 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.559 You know. It just it just bugged me, man. I 253 00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:58.919 just did not like any of this. It's really the 254 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.960 first time that one of his plans, from like top 255 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.519 to bottom. I felt like I was just crossing my 256 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:10.599 arms and staring at him, like, this is your big idea? 257 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.039 Are you fucking serious? And it's not like nothing in 258 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:18.279 this plan works out. It does somewhat still work out. 259 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:21.799 So I'm not trying to say that this was a 260 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:26.279 complete disaster, but it would have been had they not 261 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:27.200 been rescued. 262 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:28.640 He would have died. 263 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:31.079 I don't know what would have happened to Donut, because 264 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:32.839 it seems like they were far enough away from the 265 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.640 stairwell at that point that I don't know she could 266 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:35.599 have gotten there in time. 267 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:39.880 So even the fact. 268 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.400 That it worked out seems like it was low key, 269 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:44.559 not because of his plan. 270 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:47.720 It was despite his plan, and. 271 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:54.599 Just the I'm not used to having this kind of 272 00:17:54.680 --> 00:18:00.559 like doubt for me in his mind, or in. 273 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:02.960 Carl's mind. 274 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.839 I mean, like I expect that he has thought things 275 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:12.039 through to a good degree, and it just seemed like 276 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:15.559 that had not happened here at all. And I don't 277 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.000 really know what to blame for that. If it's just 278 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:21.279 that he's getting he's letting himself get so angry that 279 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.720 that's sort of overriding his better judgment or what, you 280 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:32.160 know what I'm saying, I don't know. Michael says Donut 281 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.960 would have just joined Katya. No, Michael, I mean that 282 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:39.759 Donut wouldn't have lived if they hadn't been rescued and 283 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:44.759 Carl got taken out. I don't think Donut would have 284 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:51.640 made it to either the the stairwell down or out 285 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:53.279 of there right then. 286 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.559 Maybe she would, but like they were in a really 287 00:18:57.079 --> 00:18:58.119 bad spot. Man. 288 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:03.160 You know, I just I am not impressed, Carl. That's 289 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:06.319 what it comes down to. I am not impressed. So 290 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:10.240 and the whole plan is basically that he wants to 291 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:16.599 sneak in and set some bombs up. They are going 292 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:18.720 to be like, He's going to be able to detonate 293 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.279 those when he needs so he thinks he does not 294 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.759 count on the interaction of other people in the environment 295 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.480 with the bombs that he has to leave unattended, which 296 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:35.839 it turns out lowers their stability significantly and makes them 297 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:40.079 liable to go off at a time that is not ideal. Also, 298 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:44.880 what Carl does not bet on is that there are 299 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:52.359 going to be traps everywhere. It's really kind of like 300 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.880 obvious when you stop and think about it. Of course, 301 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.400 all of these hunters are going to be aware that 302 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.920 they're going to be crawlers who try and come at them, 303 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:08.920 So of course they have traps in place around like 304 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:12.039 the main city where all of them hang out where 305 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:17.480 they are drunk and completely have their guard down like 306 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:22.880 of course, you know, but it doesn't occur to Carl, 307 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:27.599 and he isn't good at adapting. Once he realizes that 308 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:31.920 the traps are in place. Later on, they are fleeing 309 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:35.599 and he winds up running right into one of the traps, 310 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:39.240 and despite having that ability that warns him, he's going 311 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:42.359 too fast and he's not able to stop, so they 312 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:46.319 set one off right away. And this is the sort 313 00:20:46.359 --> 00:20:49.880 of thing that it's just like he just got a 314 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:51.839 little too cocky and really seemed to think that he 315 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.960 knew every bit of how this all was going to 316 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:01.960 go down and didn't like consider how the people who 317 00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:06.880 have done this, probably many times, these hunters, how they 318 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:11.359 would be prepared for exactly the kind of assault that 319 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:17.440 he's attempting to pull off here. Seraphim says, I do 320 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:20.759 think it's mostly him just focus on focusing so much 321 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.039 on hurt the people who are trying to kill us 322 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:25.880 that he's overlooking a lot else, And I agree Seraphim. 323 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:29.279 Michael says, they were already out out of the city right. 324 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:33.839 If I recall, Carl collapsed once they got outside. He collapsed, 325 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.920 but they were like people converging on them, so like 326 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:44.400 it it could he they were not in the city proper, 327 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:50.839 but like if it maybe maybe she would have been fine. 328 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:57.920 I don't know. It just feels like considering how close 329 00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:58.480 they came. 330 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:00.920 It just it is. 331 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:05.079 Whether or not she would have survived in the end 332 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:07.640 is sort of a moot point in just that it 333 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.480 would have been very bad for her, and he just 334 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:14.160 doesn't seem to really care. Yeah, Michael says he was 335 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.079 very lucky. The trap he set off was an alarm 336 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.079 trap and not one of the immobilization ones. The people 337 00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:21.759 converging on them were Miriam Domin prepotente, right, that's what 338 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:25.559 I remember. Well, there was somebody firing on him with 339 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:31.279 bolts that was like under an invisibility spell. And I 340 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:34.119 can't recall if once they leave, once they get outside 341 00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:36.480 of the city limits, is that person not able to 342 00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:43.920 pursue them further or I don't remember exactly how that works. 343 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:48.480 But anyway, so he sets this up and what he has, 344 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.359 what he decides to do is he wears the Ring 345 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:58.119 of Divine Suffering, which I genuinely was a little startled by. 346 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.359 I don't know about you guys, but I I didn't 347 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:08.880 think that his plan was going to involve that ring as. 348 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.359 The first step. 349 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.359 I was expecting if he ever had to use this, 350 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:16.359 that it was going to be something he got pushed 351 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:22.039 to and did against his own better judgment, knowing that 352 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.359 it was maybe a mistake, but that he was in 353 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:28.200 a really desperate spot, sort of like with the Gate 354 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.759 of the Pharaoh Gods, where it's just like I have 355 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.720 it if I absolutely must, I'd rather not, and so 356 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:39.160 I will mostly discount that as an option unless there's 357 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:43.079 not a better way to do this. But instead the 358 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.599 whole plan revolves, it seems, around him wearing this ring 359 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:52.160 to begin with. So, okay, everybody's telling me that the 360 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.000 hunters can't leave the city yet, and I think that 361 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:57.960 there's because like when Karl gets out of the city 362 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:01.240 and looks back, he can't see them, and he can't 363 00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:04.119 see the road or anything. So I guess because what 364 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:06.400 I was thinking is if somebody is firing on them 365 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:08.839 with crossbow bolts, that they could keep firing on them 366 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.319 even after they have left the city. 367 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:12.680 But I guess that's not. 368 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:16.920 Their vision is occluded the same way that Carls is, 369 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:21.160 and they can't see outside the city to shoot him either. 370 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:24.240 So okay, that makes sense. 371 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:33.640 So he uses the ring, and the way that it 372 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:37.519 works is that you mark somebody for death, and until 373 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:43.839 they are finally killed, you suffer a d buff and 374 00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:48.119 there is a foot like a toe ring that he 375 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:55.000 got as a prize earlier on that uh does a 376 00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:56.599 it's a super spreader. 377 00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:57.920 So what he. 378 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:04.359 Does is puts on the ring marks somebody gets the 379 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:11.839 de buff and then uses the ring or uses the 380 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:16.039 toe ring. I'm having to really differentiate between my rings here, 381 00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:20.880 so that when somebody comes and attempts to attack him, 382 00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:25.480 he kicks them, hits them with the de buff and 383 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:30.079 that will, in his original plan, spread to a lot 384 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:39.079 of different people, right, and unfortunately there's only one person 385 00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:40.279 who gets. 386 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:40.759 Hit with it. 387 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:46.119 My assumption is that the super spreader thing, it infects 388 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.880 them with the same version of it as him. So 389 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:53.480 once he kills this guy, their de buff also goes away. 390 00:25:54.759 --> 00:25:57.599 And there's just a lot. 391 00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:01.440 About Carl in this scene that's really unnerving. 392 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.000 The way that he taunts this dude about like you 393 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:09.240 want to know a secret, your. 394 00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:15.880 Bait, The gleefulness of it, it was really upsetting. And 395 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:19.000 I'm not saying that Carl hasn't got the right to 396 00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:21.480 be angry or to do all of this. 397 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.319 I'm not arguing. 398 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:29.559 That it's simply the excitement he seems to feel about 399 00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:40.000 it is. It's just extremely creepy like I wasn't ready 400 00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:48.279 for the joy of it that he is clearly feeling, 401 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:54.839