Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Bob NIS's from cold Spring, Kentucky.
Speaker 2: I golf at aj Jolly Golf Course in Alexandria, Kentucky.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter.
Speaker 3: Hi. This is Bob Cordero from Haverford, Pennsylvania, and I
Speaker 3: play at the Shore Club in Kate May Courthouse, New Jersey.
Speaker 3: This is Golf's Smarter Number one twenty five.
Speaker 2: The Masters has these limited edition garden Nomes. They're about
Speaker 2: a foot toll in classic Masters fashion. They don't tell
Speaker 2: you a lot of things about what goes on behind
Speaker 2: the scenes. They don't tell you how many of them
Speaker 2: they issue per year. But I tell a story where
Speaker 2: as a millennial he lives in suburban Georgia, bought the
Speaker 2: garden Nome. The first year it was thirty nine dollars
Speaker 2: and fifty cents in twenty sixteen. He sold it in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four for eighty nine hundred dollars. So that
Speaker 2: tells you number one, Anything with a Master's logo on
Speaker 2: it is worth something. You can travel anywhere in the
Speaker 2: world and people know what the Master's logo is about.
Speaker 2: But it also it's one of the ten principles I
Speaker 2: talk about in the book how do you use scarcity
Speaker 2: to create value? They've perfected that you can only buy
Speaker 2: their things seven days a year in person.
Speaker 1: I dream the world could be more like the Masters.
Speaker 1: With author of the Augusta Principles, John Sabino, this is
Speaker 1: Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf
Speaker 1: minds to help you lower your score and raise your
Speaker 1: golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: the Golf Smarter podcast. John.
Speaker 2: Hello, Fred, thanks for having me back. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for reaching out again. Now it's interesting I'm saying,
Speaker 1: welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast, but you haven't
Speaker 1: been on since two thousand and eight and episode one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty nine, and the listeners that were that
Speaker 1: were here back then, and there are some you may remember.
Speaker 1: We never learned John's name. He was anonymous at the
Speaker 1: time because he was on episode number fifty two in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, episode number one hundred and eight
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, and then episode one fifty
Speaker 1: nine in two thousand and eight, and what we were
Speaker 1: doing at the end of each year you had I
Speaker 1: don't know how you found me, but it was early
Speaker 1: on in podcasting days, and you reached out to me
Speaker 1: to say, I'm trying to play the best golf courses
Speaker 1: in the world, the top one hundred courses, and so
Speaker 1: you gave us a recap of your year of what
Speaker 1: you were doing. And I do distinctly remember in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, I think it was you felt like
Speaker 1: there was one course you would never get to.
Speaker 2: That true. That's it took me. Uh it took me,
Speaker 2: I think twelve years to play the top ninety nine
Speaker 2: in the world, and it took me another three or
Speaker 2: four to get on Augusta. But I had given up.
Speaker 2: I thought, okay, ninety nine is pretty good. I had
Speaker 2: been to the Masters and walked the course. That's pretty
Speaker 2: close sort of ninety nine and a half. But then,
Speaker 2: out of the blue, to the company I worked for,
Speaker 2: they invited the CEO to play, but luckily there was
Speaker 2: a board meeting that week and he couldn't go. So
Speaker 2: he called my boss, who lives in Charlotte, but he
Speaker 2: had played it already, and he did the most gracious
Speaker 2: thing anybody could do, and he said, well, John needs
Speaker 2: to play. Let's give it to John. And that's how
Speaker 2: I got on and I ended up.
Speaker 1: Did they know you were going? You were your quest
Speaker 1: to get it?
Speaker 2: They knew about it, Yeah, it was. It was widely known.
Speaker 2: That was a different company. The reason I came on
Speaker 2: your podcasts anonymous before is the company I worked for
Speaker 2: at the time, Morgan Stanley, didn't really want any publicity,
Speaker 2: you know, they were very shy on everything. But when
Speaker 2: I worked for Capitol One, which is where I got
Speaker 2: the invite to Augusta, they didn't. They didn't care as
Speaker 2: much about that, and I ended up. Yeah, I ended
Speaker 2: up playing. That was the last course I played, obviously,
Speaker 2: and I played with Marco Mera the day before the
Speaker 2: Masters in twenty thirteen. Yeah, it was. It was quite
Speaker 2: an event. And we played on the front nine Mark
Speaker 2: and I played alone, and then on the we were
Speaker 2: going and on the tenth tee Jose Maria Olthabo came
Speaker 2: off the practice putting green and said, oh, do you
Speaker 2: guys mind if I join you? And Mark said, it's
Speaker 2: okay with me. Let's see if John wants you to
Speaker 2: join or not. So he turned to me and he said,
Speaker 2: is it okay if John joins? And what am I
Speaker 2: going to say? Fred, Like, Yeah, we're in a groove here. Mark,
Speaker 2: let's just keep going. So I played the back nine
Speaker 2: with two Masters champions and it was phenomenal because they're friends,
Speaker 2: and you know, there was a very comfortable pairing and
Speaker 2: they would each drop a ball on different greens and say,
Speaker 2: when I won the Masters, here's the pot I had
Speaker 2: on thirteen, and they recreated shots for me. It was
Speaker 2: there's only one way to end a quest, to do
Speaker 2: what I was doing, and that's the way I did.
Speaker 2: I tell people now, I'm probably the only golfer maybe
Speaker 2: in the world that doesn't want to play Augusta because
Speaker 2: nothing I could do with top the experience I had.
Speaker 2: So if I ever got invited again, I would I
Speaker 2: would pay it forward and invite a couple of my friends. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I have a living you wanted hand up the others
Speaker 2: drop out, Fred, I'll slought you in Okay.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Morgan Stanley. You know they didn't want
Speaker 1: the publicity. They also probably would have to get a
Speaker 1: team of lawyers and compliance people to make sure that
Speaker 1: you didn't say anything. I was like, so, yeah, but
Speaker 1: you wanted to remain Yeah, you had to remain anonymous
Speaker 1: by being on the podcast. But you were so nice
Speaker 1: to come back but then you disappeared. I reached out
Speaker 1: to you and I never heard from you again. So yeah,
Speaker 1: well that was pretty awesome. We got three years. I
Speaker 1: wonder whatever happened, and your name came up to me
Speaker 1: in twenty ten when I was playing at Harding Park
Speaker 1: with the two crazy Kiwis.
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, Jamie, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Michael and Jamie. So these kids were traveling around
Speaker 1: the world and we're going to play a different course
Speaker 1: for three hundred and sixty five days in a row
Speaker 1: yep and circumvent the planet Untilda and play golf. And
Speaker 1: they did it. And so when they stopped in San Francisco,
Speaker 1: I played with them at Harding Park and they told
Speaker 1: me that they played with you, and they told told
Speaker 1: me your name was John. I'm like, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: He's like, what do you mean he never told me
Speaker 1: his name? When I asked, He's like, no, I can't
Speaker 1: really tell you.
Speaker 2: That's funny.
Speaker 1: I'll just tell you my stories, but that's all I
Speaker 1: can do. Yeah, Yeah, they were fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Where did you play with them?
Speaker 2: I believe it or not. In Melbourne in Australia. I
Speaker 2: met them. I was playing Walton Heath and I think
Speaker 2: one of the cat He said, oh, you have to
Speaker 2: meet these guys. So I met them down there. We
Speaker 2: played a couple of holes, and then when they were
Speaker 2: coming through the US, I played with them. I hosted
Speaker 2: them in New Jersey a couple of times and helped
Speaker 2: them out getting on different courses where I could. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they were they were I forget how well, maybe twenty
Speaker 2: three at the time, and I told them they were
Speaker 2: going to ruin their lives. They picked too early. You can't, Like,
Speaker 2: that's right. Think about think about how great that is
Speaker 2: to play golf for sixty five days in a row.
Speaker 1: But you got to be twenty three to have that.
Speaker 2: Exactly that, yeah, exactly, just go.
Speaker 1: Out every single day. It's like, couldn't do it today.
Speaker 2: I couldn't either. My back couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not, absolutely not. But I'm curious. I'm going
Speaker 1: to go back to Augusta in the time that you
Speaker 1: played with two Masters champions. Yep, how was your game
Speaker 1: at the time.
Speaker 2: It wasn't bad. I shot to my handicap. The highlight
Speaker 2: of the round was I played amen corner and even parr.
Speaker 2: I parted eleven. I birdied twelve, which is one of
Speaker 2: those iconic holes in the world where you think about
Speaker 2: if there's holes you want a birdie, you know, Cyprus
Speaker 2: point sixteen, TPC Saws seventeen, you know, with the water.
Speaker 2: But Augustus twelfth is pretty high up on that list.
Speaker 2: And then I bogied thirteen. So yeah, I played to
Speaker 2: my handicap. You know, Mark was very gracious. You're extremely
Speaker 2: nervous when you play Augusta under any conditions, of course,
Speaker 2: So on the first two holes he played the members
Speaker 2: teas with me instead of playing the proteas, just to
Speaker 2: sort of, you know, help me get into the situation
Speaker 2: and make sure I wasn't too nervous, which I was.
Speaker 2: But I hit the first fairway, I parted the second hole, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I did, Okay, I played to my handicap. The greens
Speaker 2: are insane, They're extremely difficult, and they were tournament speed.
Speaker 2: Like on eighteen, I hit above the hole and I
Speaker 2: just tapped the pot to try to get it to
Speaker 2: the hole, and it ran off the front of the
Speaker 2: green and then Jose Maria comes up and it drops
Speaker 2: the ball and he says, there's just nothing you could do.
Speaker 2: There's no speed you could hit it to stop it.
Speaker 2: He goes. The lesson is you just can't be above
Speaker 2: some of these holes. So yeah, it was. It was
Speaker 2: really interesting.
Speaker 1: So what's the difference between the members teas and the proteas.
Speaker 2: The members teas, I think are sixty six hundred, and
Speaker 2: god knows what the what the proteins are these days,
Speaker 2: probably seventy four or seventy five hundred. They keep lengthening it,
Speaker 2: but yeah, sixty six hundred is manageable for the average golfer,
Speaker 2: which I was at the time.
Speaker 1: Is it true that you cannot post or the course
Speaker 1: is not rated?
Speaker 2: It doesn't have a slope rating, that's correct, it doesn't
Speaker 2: have it. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1: So you just it's just a story you get to tell.
Speaker 2: Just a great round of golf that you remember forever,
Speaker 2: but you can't post the score.
Speaker 1: Right, and it lasts and the story lasts longer than
Speaker 1: your twenty rounds exactly.
Speaker 2: And I'm still telling people that I birdied twelve. So
Speaker 2: thanks for giving me the opportunity to do it again.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I'm going to give you a lot of
Speaker 1: opportunities to brag about this because it's such an amazing story.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And just wait, when you were saying you were playing
Speaker 1: your handicap, Come on, give me more than that.
Speaker 2: My handicap at the time was sixteen. So I did
Speaker 2: break one hundred, but not by a lot. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like certain holes just didn't suit my eye. Like sixteen
Speaker 2: I hit into the water I had left into the water.
Speaker 2: Seventeen I hit At this time the Eyesenhower tree was
Speaker 2: still there. I hit it with my drive. Eighteen I
Speaker 2: just had I just butchered up ten. I had a
Speaker 2: really hard time on. I ended up in that big
Speaker 2: bunker at the bottom of the hill and had a
Speaker 2: hard time getting out. And part of the reason for
Speaker 2: that was on the ninth hole, Tiger Woods had just
Speaker 2: teed off and he saw us and he came walking over.
Speaker 2: So Mark introduced me. So I got to meet Tiger
Speaker 2: and had a little chat with him. So even though
Speaker 2: I threw the first eight holes, I was fine after
Speaker 2: meeting Tiger. It took me two holes to settle down,
Speaker 2: Like I was hyperventilating. That Caddy saved me. He's like
Speaker 2: he came over. He said, Okay, just take deep breaths.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be okay. Don't worry about it. And luckily
Speaker 2: I rallied frame end quarter.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And were there moments there like that
Speaker 1: you were incredibly self conscious being his sixteen handicap playing
Speaker 1: with these pros on the course.
Speaker 2: Yep. And it gets even worse. I had worse. It
Speaker 2: was the sixth hole. Yeah, the sixth hole. We walk
Speaker 2: up to it and there was these two older gentlemen
Speaker 2: sitting in a golf cart and there were two like
Speaker 2: teenagers about to tee off and Mark Mark says to me, goes, oh,
Speaker 2: let me introduce you to these gentlemen. One of them
Speaker 2: was Bob Goldby, who won I think in sixty seven,
Speaker 2: that's the with the incident with the Argentine Tinian golfer
Speaker 2: who disqualified himself. And then he said, this other gentleman
Speaker 2: is Bob is it Bob Ford? Doug Ford? Excuse me?
Speaker 2: So we we uh. They let us play through. We
Speaker 2: hit our shots, and down at the green, I said,
Speaker 2: I said, I recognize Goldbie's name, but who is Doug Ford?
Speaker 2: And he said, well, he won the Masters in nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty seven. If you could imagine, I'm like, how how
Speaker 2: is this person even alive? So yeah, I pulled that
Speaker 2: shot pretty good too, because I had a couple of
Speaker 2: Masters champions watching on that. But if you let it
Speaker 2: get in your head, it's intimidating. I mean I had
Speaker 2: played obviously around the court core world on very good
Speaker 2: courses and sometimes playing with golfers that were plus two
Speaker 2: and plus three handicaps, which can be a little bit intimidating.
Speaker 2: But I think because it was Marco Mira and he's
Speaker 2: just such a gracious person, a nice man, it was
Speaker 2: just the nerves weren't as bad as I thought they
Speaker 2: were most of the round.
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know how you hooked up with Marco Mirra.
Speaker 1: I mean, like they said, i'll let John play this,
Speaker 1: but how at what point did you know that it
Speaker 1: was going to be with Marcomera.
Speaker 2: Well after after they invited me, I knew right away.
Speaker 2: Capital One spends a lot of money on golf related things,
Speaker 2: and it's sort of a way that they they pay
Speaker 2: it back, you know, when they get opportunities to have
Speaker 2: people that sponsor tournaments and spend a lot of money
Speaker 2: on golf, they give them those kind of perks and
Speaker 2: and you know, I guess there was just an opportunity
Speaker 2: that came up and I was lucky enough to get it.
Speaker 1: So you're playing there the day before.
Speaker 2: Twenty thirteen Masters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what was this on a Wednesday? Was Tuesday?
Speaker 2: No, it's the Saturday, the Saturday.
Speaker 1: Okay before everybody, excuse me.
Speaker 2: The Sunday, the Sunday before. So the tournament, the practice
Speaker 2: rounds start on Monday, so we say it was the
Speaker 2: Sunday before. Yeah, and the only the only people allow
Speaker 2: on the course of that day or former champions and
Speaker 2: they're allowed one guest each.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Yeah, so I twenty twenty five, I got
Speaker 1: to go on Wednesday and Thursday, and it was mind
Speaker 1: blowing for me. But one of the things that really
Speaker 1: kind of not shook me up, but I was just
Speaker 1: so surprised. It's just like there's no rough anywhere. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean the one thing about the greens
Speaker 1: being I would see guys take a stroke that would
Speaker 1: be for like a five foot putt and it would
Speaker 1: go thirty five feet. Yep, there was that. But the
Speaker 1: fact that like the second cut, which is you know
Speaker 1: what everyone else would call it rough, seemed to be
Speaker 1: like most of the putting greens that I play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, aside from hitting into the water, you
Speaker 2: can't really get in a lot of trouble. I mean
Speaker 2: you could, you could hit onto the pine straw. That's
Speaker 2: a little difficult to hit at. But you're right, the
Speaker 2: fairways are in perfect condition. The first cut he's very
Speaker 2: easy to hit at of not very thick most of
Speaker 2: the courses. The difficulty is the approaches to the green.
Speaker 2: Can you hold the green if you're coming in from
Speaker 2: the wrong spot, And most of the time the answer
Speaker 2: is no. And then once you're on the putting greens,
Speaker 2: if you're not in the right spot, it's very difficult
Speaker 2: to put because they're very fast. That's the challenge of Augusta.
Speaker 1: I would think that the challenge of the Gusta is
Speaker 1: the intimidation factor.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is. It is very intimidating. Yep, no
Speaker 2: doubt about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, okay, now we've got that established. That's not why
Speaker 1: you're here today. You've just written a book that I
Speaker 1: thoroughly enjoyed, and thank you. I promise you there will
Speaker 1: be copies given out this holiday season to a number
Speaker 1: of my friends who are not only golfers and a
Speaker 1: you know, but they appreciate what Augusta is and what
Speaker 1: the Masters is in the world of sports.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: But they're also in business, and so you took this
Speaker 1: approach on the book, and why don't you give me
Speaker 1: the overview of what you think the book is and
Speaker 1: then we can go on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've been to the Masters, and even for
Speaker 2: people that haven't been to the Masters, they get a
Speaker 2: sense of obviously how perfect the course is watching on
Speaker 2: TV and it's also the best broadcast of the year
Speaker 2: for a variety of reasons. So the thing that strikes
Speaker 2: me when you're actually on the property Augusta, and I've
Speaker 2: been lucky enough to go nine times, wow, is it's perfect.
Speaker 2: There are so many things that they do well. You know,
Speaker 2: the attention to detail is the one that most people
Speaker 2: pick up on. You can't find any weeds on the property.
Speaker 2: Everybody's cheery, there's just you know, everybody's well behaved while there,
Speaker 2: while they're on property, And every time I left Augusta,
Speaker 2: I said to myself, how do they do this? You know,
Speaker 2: this is a perfect place. And then you get out
Speaker 2: of Augusta and people are rude and it's loud, and
Speaker 2: everything is commercialized and everything is not perfect. So the
Speaker 2: idea behind the book was to deconstruct what what it
Speaker 2: is that goes into the Masters. How are the members
Speaker 2: of Augusta National, how have they what's the secret formula
Speaker 2: that they use? And I reverse engineered and they didn't
Speaker 2: have access to any members or to the club. I
Speaker 2: did a lot of research. I read for months and
Speaker 2: months everything I could about about the Masters and what
Speaker 2: goes into it. So most books that have been written
Speaker 2: about the Masters are about the tournament, are about their
Speaker 2: about the course itself. This is the first book that's
Speaker 2: really about what makes it special. And originally I was
Speaker 2: going to write it as a business, as a just
Speaker 2: a golf book, but then as I started to get
Speaker 2: into it, I asked the question, and this was really
Speaker 2: the driving force behind the book, why can't the world
Speaker 2: be more like the Masters? Right? It's it's just a
Speaker 2: lot of people describe it that have been there as
Speaker 2: an adult disney Land and to many in many respects,
Speaker 2: it is nobody has a bad day when they go there.
Speaker 2: Everybody is going out of their way to please you,
Speaker 2: and just the way that the patrons behave and the
Speaker 2: civility behind it. So I went through and I deconstructed
Speaker 2: what makes it such a great tournament? That was the
Speaker 2: idea behind it and the reason I decided to make
Speaker 2: it a business book is certainly I'd say, you know,
Speaker 2: the majority of the book, probably eighty percent, talks about
Speaker 2: the Masters and what they do right, But then I
Speaker 2: also said, okay, are there other businesses and are there
Speaker 2: other examples where other companies who take the same philosophy
Speaker 2: and the same approach can make the world more like
Speaker 2: the Masters. So that's that's the idea behind it, to
Speaker 2: try to spread the formula that they have for people
Speaker 2: that are in business or making decisions. What can they
Speaker 2: do to make their businesses operate better, or to treat
Speaker 2: customers with more respect, or to create a more civil environment.
Speaker 2: So and as you know, there's a lot that can
Speaker 2: be done in the world to improve things, and we
Speaker 2: could talk about some of the specifics.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean early on in the book you
Speaker 1: establish and page twenty four you say, AUGUSTA National's principles
Speaker 1: can be replicated yep, And yeah, you know you're it
Speaker 1: from there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the things that one of the
Speaker 2: things that so like take attention to d detail. They
Speaker 2: they hand clip the edges of the of the grass
Speaker 2: near the bunkers to make sure that they're perfect. The
Speaker 2: pro shop if you pay in cash. All the cash
Speaker 2: and the pro shop are brand new bills. They won't
Speaker 2: give you a bill that's been used before. Now that's
Speaker 2: a quirk that Cliff Roberts set up. He didn't like
Speaker 2: dirty bills. But you know, they still abide by that.
Speaker 2: When they cut the flower bed in Founder Circle, which
Speaker 2: is at the end of Magnolia Lane, they have a
Speaker 2: horizontal ladder that they use so that they don't tramp
Speaker 2: down on any of the flowers. I mean, it's things
Speaker 2: that it's an insane attention to detail. But you know,
Speaker 2: let's take two examples. Outside of Augusta. Ritz Carlton also
Speaker 2: does a fantastic job on attention to detail. You know,
Speaker 2: partly they do that by empowering their employees. Partly it's
Speaker 2: just part of their culture and their those So that's
Speaker 2: one example, and people are going to think, Okay, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: Augusta has a lot of money. Ritz Carlton's a very
Speaker 2: expensive hotel. If you have a lot of money, it's
Speaker 2: a lot easier to pay attention to detail. So I
Speaker 2: also made sure that a bunch of the examples that
Speaker 2: I gave in the book were not companies that are
Speaker 2: high and only and my favorite example is a company
Speaker 2: called BUCkies. BUCkies runs convenience centers slash gas stations slash
Speaker 2: superstores along highways, primarily in the South, and BUCkies is interesting.
Speaker 2: The reason I put it in the book is another
Speaker 2: thing Augusta does really well. If you've ever been to
Speaker 2: the Masters and you go to the bathroom, they have
Speaker 2: an attendant that cleans the stall after each use. It's insane, right, like, it's.
Speaker 1: Definitely going to the bathroom is one of the highlights
Speaker 1: of my two days there.
Speaker 2: Right, you're greeted by an attendant. There's people in there
Speaker 2: cleaning everything all the time. And what's what's a good
Speaker 2: example is one of the things that Bucky's has made
Speaker 2: part of their mission statements. They say they have the
Speaker 2: cleanest bathrooms in America. Right, so for gas stations on
Speaker 2: highway rest stops, how do you do that? Right? You
Speaker 2: do that by committing you have an you want to
Speaker 2: have an attention to detail. They take the time to
Speaker 2: make sure that that's part of their culture. They train
Speaker 2: their associates to do that, and the place has a
Speaker 2: cult following. It's it's if you've ever been in one.
Speaker 2: If you haven't, I recommend visiting they have it's very
Speaker 2: similar to Augusta. They have tons of branded gear and
Speaker 2: merchandise that they sell. Everybody is upbeat and cheery. It's
Speaker 2: just a really good example of yes, there are ways.
Speaker 2: Not everybody's not going to be perfect all the time,
Speaker 2: but pick something, pick a couple things, and you can
Speaker 2: really help to drive business and make it. And it's
Speaker 2: a cult brand. People will drive an hour out of
Speaker 2: their way to go get their gas at Bucket's because
Speaker 2: they know that they're going to get a clean restroom.
Speaker 2: So that's just one example that is a way to
Speaker 2: replicate what Augusta does.
Speaker 1: Have to share. My experience in the bathroom, I was
Speaker 1: like around I think it was around whole number four.
Speaker 1: I had to go to the bathroom. Pull my buddy,
Speaker 1: I'll be back in the night. After the bathroom, and
Speaker 1: there was this young man with the greatest energy and
Speaker 1: the biggest smile saying, if you gotta go number one,
Speaker 1: get in line here, you gotta go number two, just
Speaker 1: wait against the wall, and he was like he just
Speaker 1: repeated it that his enthusiasm every single time that he
Speaker 1: repeated It's when I got to the front of line,
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I was like, did you audition
Speaker 1: for this job? You know? I said, do you enjoy
Speaker 1: repeating you? He goes, I love this job. I've been
Speaker 1: doing this. He couldn't have been more than twenty five
Speaker 1: years old. He says, I've been doing this for seven years.
Speaker 1: I absolutely love doing this.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: But I also saw that in the parking lot as
Speaker 1: soon as you got out of the car, there was
Speaker 1: a friendly person saying welcome to the masters.
Speaker 2: Isn't it crazy? Yep? And you hear that about twenty
Speaker 2: times even before you get in the gate. Yep. The
Speaker 2: security guards. There's members in green jackets. People think that
Speaker 2: AUGUSTA members are aloof and you never see them. I mean,
Speaker 2: they're captains of industry. They're very successful people. But there
Speaker 2: are three or four members who are assigned to the
Speaker 2: parking lots and that's what they you know. And before
Speaker 2: you get through the gates there they're saying hello, and
Speaker 2: they're welcoming and welcoming you in again. Like you look
Speaker 2: at there are businesses that do that. Buckets happens to
Speaker 2: be another one where you get a warm greeting. Another
Speaker 2: one I have in the in the book is Public's
Speaker 2: supermarket chain. Also in the South, and Publics has what
Speaker 2: they call they have a couple rules. They have a
Speaker 2: ten second rule, which is every customer has to be
Speaker 2: greeted within ten seconds of coming into your department. And
Speaker 2: it just makes a big difference, right, it's that same
Speaker 2: and you know it's supermarket, it's not it's not a
Speaker 2: golf tournament run by a lot of affluent people. But
Speaker 2: it makes a huge difference, and they have a huge, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, customer satisfaction rating as a result. That's just
Speaker 2: that's just one of the small things that they do.
Speaker 1: Just one of the small things. You you briefly dropped
Speaker 1: his name in, but we need to talk more about
Speaker 1: Cliff Roberts. We hear a lot about Bobby Jones, obviously,
Speaker 1: especially on this show because doctor Bob Jones, the fourth
Speaker 1: his grandson, has been a regular on this show, nice
Speaker 1: and telling stories about his grandfather, who he refers to
Speaker 1: as bubb for the last number of years. But we
Speaker 1: really don't hear a lot about the thumb print that
Speaker 1: Cliff Roberts put on Augusta National.
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, I talk about a lot of the things
Speaker 2: that Roberts does in the book, and one of the
Speaker 2: things I speculate about is he was never diagnosed with OCD,
Speaker 2: but in my opinion, he definitely had it. So, you know,
Speaker 2: aside from only, he hated dirty money, so he made
Speaker 2: sure there is only clean and brand new bills there.
Speaker 2: He also made sure that every picture in the clubhouse
Speaker 2: has to have two hooks on it so that no
Speaker 2: pictures are ever crooked. They make sure that the pine
Speaker 2: straw around the trees is raked in a clockwise fashion only.
Speaker 2: So if you look at at the Masters, Jones was
Speaker 2: the reason most people came to the tournament. Both fans
Speaker 2: came to the tournament, and that's the reason it got
Speaker 2: established as a major, because the pros came to honor
Speaker 2: Bobby Jones. But everything behind the scenes was really Roberts.
Speaker 2: Jones really operated at a high level, let's say thirty
Speaker 2: thousand feet. Roberts got into the detail of everything and
Speaker 2: one of the reasons that the Master's broadcast to this
Speaker 2: day is still so good. Those are the things that
Speaker 2: Roberts laid down as the law. Right. He didn't want commercials.
Speaker 2: He didn't want it commercial. He set it up so
Speaker 2: that the agreements with the broadcasters are year to year,
Speaker 2: so if they don't like what is going on. They
Speaker 2: have control over it. And he would sit down with
Speaker 2: CBS executives after every year and he would critique and say,
Speaker 2: I like this, I don't like this. So again, one
Speaker 2: of the reasons he he made the TV broadcast so
Speaker 2: good is he said, look, I don't like chatty conversation.
Speaker 2: I don't like broadcasters talking all the time. And for
Speaker 2: any of your listeners that watch golf, which I'm sure
Speaker 2: most of them do, it's very annoying. It's it's it's
Speaker 2: sort of like the broadcasters feel like they can't have
Speaker 2: any dead space, they can't have any quiet there.
Speaker 1: This business.
Speaker 2: And Roberts said, the last thing I want is quote
Speaker 2: unquote chatty conversation. I don't want that. Golfers want useful information.
Speaker 2: So a good example of that is if you go back,
Speaker 2: I know you've had Jim Mantz as a guest on
Speaker 2: your show. If you go back and look at his
Speaker 2: most famous call, which was eighty six when Jack Nicholas
Speaker 2: was charging for his last green jacket. That is where
Speaker 2: he says the bear has come out of hibernation. If
Speaker 2: you actually go and you listen to that, there are
Speaker 2: long pauses and periods of silence even throughout that. After
Speaker 2: Nant says the bear has come out of hibernation, he's
Speaker 2: silent and nobody else talks. And the same thing if
Speaker 2: you look at the most famous call with Tiger woodshot
Speaker 2: on the sixteenth hole, where Verne Lunquist screams in your life,
Speaker 2: have you ever seen that? After that, nobody says anything
Speaker 2: for twenty seconds because they knew. You know that those
Speaker 2: are the types of things that Cliff Roberts instilled in it,
Speaker 2: And the fact that there's four minutes of commercials makes
Speaker 2: it fantag fantastic. Roberts was just dead set against commercialism.
Speaker 2: And I think I have a quote in the book
Speaker 2: on this where one of the former chairmen said, we'd
Speaker 2: rather shut the tournament down than have it be the
Speaker 2: pizza hut masters. They just they don't they don't want
Speaker 2: commercialism to be a part of it. And that goes
Speaker 2: back to to what Cliff Roberts said he was, he
Speaker 2: was the detail man.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you you repeat multiple times throughout the book
Speaker 1: that it's not about the money.
Speaker 2: No, it's not, it's not about the money at all.
Speaker 2: If you look at if you look at like take
Speaker 2: take the ability to buy anything. I notice you have
Speaker 2: a Master's set on. The Only way to buy a
Speaker 2: Master's brandy gear is to go and buy it in
Speaker 2: person at the Masters. Certainly you can buy it in
Speaker 2: the secondary market on eBay or other websites, but you
Speaker 2: know you're paying a huge markup. Now, Augusta, they could
Speaker 2: flood the zone. They could. They could make Masters items
Speaker 2: available throughout you know, they could, they could, anybody could
Speaker 2: buy it. They don't want to do that, they don't
Speaker 2: need the money. They could certainly raise the price of
Speaker 2: a sandwich, right instead of costing two fifty or five
Speaker 2: dollars for a beer, they could double or triple those
Speaker 2: and people would still buy them. It's just it's it's
Speaker 2: they it's again, it's part of the ethos and they
Speaker 2: they Yeah, it's just a core part of the club.
Speaker 2: And again I give throughout the book, I give credit
Speaker 2: to all the chairmen and members of the club over
Speaker 2: the last hundred years that have stuck to that. It's
Speaker 2: one thing for Jones and Roberts to say that, it's
Speaker 2: another thing for the club to live up to those principles.
Speaker 1: And it's the Old South.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the Old South very much. I agree, and
Speaker 2: it's created some crazy things. One of one of one
Speaker 2: of my favorite things in the book is I don't
Speaker 2: know how much people know about these The Masters has
Speaker 2: these gnomes. They have limited edition garden gnomes. They're about
Speaker 2: a foot toall. They won't tell you how many of
Speaker 2: them in classic and classic Masters fashion. They don't tell
Speaker 2: you a lot of things about what goes on behind
Speaker 2: the scenes. They don't tell you how many of them
Speaker 2: they issue per year. But I tell us story where
Speaker 2: and I actually spoke to this individual. It's a millennial.
Speaker 2: He lives in suburban Georgia. He bought the garden home.
Speaker 2: The first year it was thirty nine dollars and fifty cents.
Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen he bought it. He sold it in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four for eighty nine hundred dollars. So that
Speaker 2: tells you a couple of things, right. It tells you,
Speaker 2: Number one, how much people really value what you know.
Speaker 2: Anything with a Master's logo on it is worth something.
Speaker 2: You can travel anywhere in the world and people know
Speaker 2: what the Master's logo is about. But it also it's
Speaker 2: it's one of the ten principles I talk about in
Speaker 2: the book, which is how do you use scarcity to
Speaker 2: create value? Right? They've perfected that you can only buy
Speaker 2: their things seven days a year in person, that's you
Speaker 2: use scarcity and things create value. And the company in
Speaker 2: the book that I use as an example where other
Speaker 2: companies can do it outside is Ermes, the French high
Speaker 2: end fashion retailer. You know they make the Birken bags
Speaker 2: and they also limit those and they don't you basically
Speaker 2: can't buy them, but they won't tell you how many
Speaker 2: they make. So again it's just another example of how
Speaker 2: you can take some of the things that Augusta does
Speaker 2: and replicate them. But imagine buying something for thirty nine
Speaker 2: fifty and selling it for almost nine thousand dollars. I mean,
Speaker 2: hedge funds don't even have that rate of return.
Speaker 1: So I need to share like my purchasing history when
Speaker 1: I was there this year, And it still makes me
Speaker 1: laugh when I do it, because I knew that I
Speaker 1: wasn't aware that the scarcity mentality that they had about that,
Speaker 1: but I knew I was going to have to buy
Speaker 1: gifts for people I'm you know, my friends. I don't
Speaker 1: have the opportunity that I had, and so I literally
Speaker 1: went online starting to look for it, like, well, I
Speaker 1: can get some hats cheaper and then I'll just buy
Speaker 1: them and give them my friends say. I was there
Speaker 1: and there was nothing. I couldn't mind anything, right, And
Speaker 1: my son who he and I have been like who's
Speaker 1: going to go first? Who's going to go first? You know?
Speaker 1: And I never thought I was going to get to go,
Speaker 1: and he was convinced he was going to go. I
Speaker 1: went Wednesday and Thursday. He went Friday and Saturday. But
Speaker 1: I was the guest of a member. So he said,
Speaker 1: You've got to get me a hat from Augusta National.
Speaker 1: That has Augusta National. I'm like, okay, I will, I
Speaker 1: will find one. So I the first as soon as
Speaker 1: we went through the gates, we went right to the
Speaker 1: pro shop for the members that we got to go into.
Speaker 1: We had the special members passes, and I asked him
Speaker 1: when I said, do you have Augusta National hats? Like, no,
Speaker 1: only Master's hats. And that was the end of the conference.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay, Well, so I text my son, no,
Speaker 1: there's no it's just Master is not a gust National.
Speaker 1: So I'm still looking around and I'm shopping, and my
Speaker 1: first shopping experience while I was there and I buy
Speaker 1: the hat that I'm wearing right now for you. And
Speaker 1: then my son, when I saw him two weeks later,
Speaker 1: he's like, where'd you get that hat? And I said, well,
Speaker 1: I bought it in the pro shop. It was the
Speaker 1: one that I kind of liked it a lot and
Speaker 1: it fit me really well. So yeah, I bought this
Speaker 1: hat and he goes, well, that was only available in
Speaker 1: the member's pro shop. Why didn't you get me that hat.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I had no idea. They just told me
Speaker 1: there were none, and he's like, well, give me the hat.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I'm not going to give me the hat.
Speaker 1: I love this hat. I'm going to wear this hat
Speaker 1: a lot. And I don't wear baseball caps, but I'm
Speaker 1: going to wear this hat a lot because we know
Speaker 1: you got to give it. I'm not going to give
Speaker 1: it to you. I love you, but I'm not going
Speaker 1: to give you my hat. And he goes, well, that's okay,
Speaker 1: I'll get it when you die. Okay, great, that's something
Speaker 1: to look forward to. Then that's all you're getting from
Speaker 1: me is my hat.
Speaker 2: That's funny. Yeah, there's a whole most people wouldn't even
Speaker 2: wouldn't even know, like.
Speaker 1: Somebody offered me one thousand dollars in the market, a
Speaker 1: trader Joe. Someone came up and goes, real, there're this
Speaker 1: here and yeah, and he goes, I want your hat.
Speaker 1: I'm like no, he goes, no, I'll give you a
Speaker 1: thousand bucks. I'm like, no, my son wants it, and
Speaker 1: he goes, I'll get and he followed me around the
Speaker 1: market and we said goodbye, and then he came back
Speaker 1: to my wife and he says, can you please get
Speaker 1: him to give me the hat. I'm like, no, you
Speaker 1: can't have that.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And my son's like, you didn't take one thousand dollars
Speaker 1: for the hat, and I'm like, no, it's going to
Speaker 1: give it to you. He goes, I'd sell it for those.
Speaker 2: That's funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but one of the lines that you have here
Speaker 1: just hit me right between the eyes. It was paid
Speaker 1: one hundred ninety two. So excited to attend the Masters,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure if they will ever return. Patrons sometimes
Speaker 1: lose their senses, they do. That was me. That was me.
Speaker 1: I went shopping four times in the two days that
Speaker 1: I was there. I bought a home, only the little
Speaker 1: one because they were out of the big ones and.
Speaker 2: I went the big one's the big ones fell out
Speaker 2: the door. Yeah, the big ones.
Speaker 1: They do have a small one. And I spend I
Speaker 1: and this is of course, I know I'm never going
Speaker 1: to play and I you know, if I go shopping
Speaker 1: in a pro shop because oh I'm never gonna play
Speaker 1: this course again, or I had a great round or
Speaker 1: something like that, I'll go right to the sales rack
Speaker 1: and if I have to, I'll move beyond that and
Speaker 1: spend ninety dollars. I spent eighteen hundred dollars YEP in
Speaker 1: four trips. Luckily they let you go back to your
Speaker 1: car and come back.
Speaker 2: Yes, they also went nuts. They also allow you to
Speaker 2: They have a UPS shipping station there. You can just
Speaker 2: walk out of the pro shop. They'll box it up
Speaker 2: and and you can send it to yourself. The average
Speaker 2: spend is four hundred and fifty dollars more or less
Speaker 2: there and they asked, I have this in the book too,
Speaker 2: because again it's that whole scarcity factor. They asked one
Speaker 2: of the ladies that was working check out, what's the
Speaker 2: biggest purchase she ever saw, and she said twenty thousand dollars,
Speaker 2: So that could be there's a lot of people that
Speaker 2: just go to the Masters and get tickets just to
Speaker 2: sell on eBay. She said, basically they bought like three
Speaker 2: of everything. To me, that sounds like a reseller, which
Speaker 2: at some point, you know, it's very very difficult, if
Speaker 2: not impossible, to resell Masters tickets now they're all coded
Speaker 2: and if you try to sell them, they'll deactivate the ticket.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they do
Speaker 2: the same thing with people that are trying to resell,
Speaker 2: because they really One of the things that they do
Speaker 2: exceptionally well, and I go through this in the book
Speaker 2: is nothing is more important than the brand. You alluded
Speaker 2: to it, right, It's not about money. They could certainly
Speaker 2: make more money by doing a lot of different things.
Speaker 2: They could start to charge the broadcasters, for instance, but
Speaker 2: they are just very protective of the brand, which in
Speaker 2: the long run makes all the sense in the world. Right,
Speaker 2: look at that little logo on your hat. How much
Speaker 2: that's worth. That's the brand, exactly right. It's not always
Speaker 2: about money, yeah, but.
Speaker 1: They also get the right people to do this. You
Speaker 1: talk about in the book about how they their national
Speaker 1: the chief Merchandise and Creative Services Officer correct, give you
Speaker 1: a little bit about that.
Speaker 2: Yes, So I would say the most frequent comment I
Speaker 2: hear from people, even when you're on property or after
Speaker 2: the fact, is it feels like an adult Disneyland. And
Speaker 2: part of that is there everybody's aim is to have
Speaker 2: you feel good that day, and everybody, like you said before,
Speaker 2: bathroom attendance, people that are checking you out after you
Speaker 2: buy your permento, cheese sandwich, et cetera. But one of
Speaker 2: the things that they do exceptionally well that I think
Speaker 2: they don't get enough credit for is the way they
Speaker 2: manage talent. And the example I give is they hired
Speaker 2: someone who ran the merchandising operation for Walt Disney, and
Speaker 2: I think that person's been at the club for a
Speaker 2: dozen years or so. And if you look at what
Speaker 2: they've done in terms of merchandise and what they offer
Speaker 2: over that dozen years, they've greatly expanded the size of
Speaker 2: the of the pro shop that you go into buy
Speaker 2: Master's gear, and they now do brand partnerships with selected
Speaker 2: brands that are only high quality. That's just one example.
Speaker 2: So obviously, you know, the three hundred members of Augusta
Speaker 2: are all very successful people. They can't do the day,
Speaker 2: the day today, and when you go, if you sit
Speaker 2: down and you have lunch, you know, to a person,
Speaker 2: all the people that you're dealing with are cheerful. And
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know any other company or brand
Speaker 2: or location in the world. You know, Disney's probably the
Speaker 2: closest where everybody is that good. So again I couldn't
Speaker 2: find out what they do exactly in terms of their
Speaker 2: training program. But I don't know how you get every
Speaker 2: single person on a location to be that up beaten,
Speaker 2: chirpy all the time. It's it's it's an exceptional part
Speaker 2: of what they do, and to me, they don't get
Speaker 2: enough credit for that. But again, I think it's talent management.
Speaker 2: It's going out, it's finding the right people, it's paying
Speaker 2: them well, it's grooming them and taking care of them.
Speaker 2: There's there's just so many and that again, that's one
Speaker 2: of the reasons when where I started out as a
Speaker 2: golf book and then transitioned over. You know, it's still
Speaker 2: seventy eighty percent golf and golf fans will will really
Speaker 2: enjoy the book, even if they're not, you know, into
Speaker 2: making business decisions. But it's just really interesting some of
Speaker 2: the decisions that they've made. The other thing that they
Speaker 2: don't get enough credit for. Right, It's it's essentially a
Speaker 2: lot of wealthy people that are successful. They're not young,
Speaker 2: you know they and I give an example, they have
Speaker 2: a technology committee and the average age of their technology
Speaker 2: committee is sixty five years old. But arguably they are
Speaker 2: one of the best users of technology in the world
Speaker 2: across any industry. If you use the Master's app, if
Speaker 2: you look at what they do in terms of their broadcast,
Speaker 2: or you can go and you can just watch Amen Corner.
Speaker 2: You can watch every shot of any player they're on.
Speaker 2: I think it's fifteen different social media channels. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, you and I aren't aren't Spring chickens either.
Speaker 2: But they're huge users of TikTok. Right. The average age
Speaker 2: of a TikTok user is is high teens, right, and
Speaker 2: most most TikTok users are in Asia or Latin America.
Speaker 2: They're very sophisticated in terms of how they use technology.
Speaker 2: And it's and it's one of the lessons that to
Speaker 2: me that really came out as I started to analyze
Speaker 2: the company. And frankly, when you go outside the Master's
Speaker 2: most you know, Masters only uses technology to help you.
Speaker 2: And most technology and I use a couple of examples
Speaker 2: in the books. Try calling your cable company or your
Speaker 2: power company or ups. First of all, you're not going
Speaker 2: to get anybody. You're going to get at some phone
Speaker 2: tree that's mind numbing and it's going to take you
Speaker 2: five minutes to get through that. When you get through that,
Speaker 2: you're going to get to some chatbot that doesn't work,
Speaker 2: and then maybe you're going to be put on hold
Speaker 2: for twenty minutes. That's the way most companies use technology.
Speaker 2: They're using it to prevent you from getting to a person.
Speaker 2: They're using it to save money. And again there's a
Speaker 2: huge lesson in there about how you don't have to
Speaker 2: do that. And I use a company in of all places,
Speaker 2: a pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin, called you Line, and they sell
Speaker 2: shipping supplies and cardboard boxes and stuff. When you call
Speaker 2: you Line, the phone never rings. Go look up their
Speaker 2: eight one hundred number and dial their number. I guarantee
Speaker 2: the phone will in a second or less. The head
Speaker 2: of the company says, we pick up the phones faster
Speaker 2: than nine one one when you dial nine to one one,
Speaker 2: and he's right, it's incredible. That's that's an that's a
Speaker 2: brilliant use of technology. So again it's a it's a small,
Speaker 2: relatively small, privately held company. It's just another good example
Speaker 2: of how if you use technology wisely, you can actually
Speaker 2: help people and create a better environment. And it's another
Speaker 2: good example of how the world can be more like
Speaker 2: the Masters if more companies and decision makers decided that
Speaker 2: it was it was a good goal and worthy to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: To me, what stands out about your book what I
Speaker 1: enjoyed so much is how you take a business view
Speaker 1: of something that all golfers and many non golfers appreciate,
Speaker 1: and that is what The Masters represents, not only to
Speaker 1: the sport, but also to the passage of time. It's like,
Speaker 1: when the Masters happens, it's ah, it's springtime. It's time
Speaker 1: to start thinking about and going out and playing golf again.
Speaker 1: Why is it in the book that you felt that
Speaker 1: the Masters would fly over the heads of private equity people.
Speaker 1: Going back into the business element of.
Speaker 2: It, Yeah, one of the things I did is so
Speaker 2: if I look, I have something like twenty twenty two
Speaker 2: or twenty four companies that I compare The Masters to.
Speaker 2: So it's it's it's Disney it's you line, it's Bucky's,
Speaker 2: but it's also you know, places like publics and stuff.
Speaker 2: And one of the things I did when I started
Speaker 2: to analyze it, even though publics is a huge supermarket,
Speaker 2: it's employee owned. And eighty percent of the companies that
Speaker 2: I ended up comparing to from in the book were
Speaker 2: either employee owned or privately owned, and the other twenty percent,
Speaker 2: and frankly most I give a lot of examples of
Speaker 2: companies that do a horrible job, almost all of them
Speaker 2: were owned by they're either public big public companies, or
Speaker 2: they were owned by private equity. So it's not something
Speaker 2: I came in and said, this is something I want
Speaker 2: to try to prove or disprove. I just looked at
Speaker 2: and analyzed as I went through it, and I think,
Speaker 2: fred it comes back to just money. If if you're
Speaker 2: in private equity and you're investing in something and you
Speaker 2: want to get a return on it, what's your time horizon?
Speaker 2: Right Augusta's time horizon. They're looking at twenty thirty years
Speaker 2: and they're thinking about the brand. They're not thinking about money.
Speaker 2: So same thing. If your employee owned, you're going to
Speaker 2: do everything you can to make sure that the company
Speaker 2: is successful, because if the company does well, you do well.
Speaker 2: It's just a matter of the incentives, I think. And
Speaker 2: obviously there are public companies like Disney that do a
Speaker 2: good job. But my experience, the bigger the company, the
Speaker 2: more bureaucratic, and companies that are that are owned by
Speaker 2: private equity and and and other owners that are just
Speaker 2: looking to milk it and make money out of it,
Speaker 2: to me, they don't. They don't live the principle. Certainly,
Speaker 2: there's going to be exceptions. I'm sure I'll get calls
Speaker 2: from people that are in private equity complaining about that comment,
Speaker 2: but as a general rule that that's what I found
Speaker 2: as I analyzed.
Speaker 1: The book interesting. You also, and I hope it's okay
Speaker 1: to talk about this. You were quite revealing about your
Speaker 1: personal story. Yes, you even said I've lived two lives.
Speaker 2: I have. Yeah, yeah, I think the way I describe
Speaker 2: it is the first life was I mean, I was.
Speaker 2: I was wildly successful, given you know, I didn't excel
Speaker 2: at school. I was fantastic at sports, but I ended
Speaker 2: up doing very well in business. I have a fantastic family.
Speaker 2: I played the top hundred courses, right, I mean it
Speaker 2: was a dream life, and then in twenty eighteen, I
Speaker 2: was diagnosed with leukemia and my first life ended in
Speaker 2: one day. Leukemia is cancered the blood, and I had
Speaker 2: a particular strain that is very deadly, unfortunately, so they
Speaker 2: put me in an ambulance. I went to the hospital.
Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to leave for thirty days. I had
Speaker 2: a bone marrow transplant and since then, you know, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of complications. I'm lucky to be alive. Let
Speaker 2: me just say first and foremost that I'm not complaining
Speaker 2: about anything. Every day is a gift. I'm happy to
Speaker 2: be here. But you know, I deal with a lot
Speaker 2: of issues from the bone marrow transplant. And it sounds goofy,
Speaker 2: but you know, when I was in the hospital and
Speaker 2: I had some moments that were not so great, and
Speaker 2: you know, I obviously wanted to get out to be
Speaker 2: with my family and my friends and so forth, but
Speaker 2: I also dreamed about one day, like returning to go
Speaker 2: back to the Masters. As odd as that sounds, because
Speaker 2: you know, I'm stuck in After you have a bone
Speaker 2: marrow transplant, It's sort of like the Seinfeld episode with
Speaker 2: the bubble Boy. You're stuck in a room. When nurses
Speaker 2: and doctors come in, they have to put on special equipment.
Speaker 2: You're not allowed to leave the room for thirty days.
Speaker 2: You know. I'm hooked up to five or six different
Speaker 2: monitors and ivs and so forth. It's such an antiseptic
Speaker 2: environment and it really just crushes the soul. And to me,
Speaker 2: the best place in the world. And you've been there,
Speaker 2: anybody that's been there. When you're standing by the thirteenth
Speaker 2: Green or you're near Amen Corner, it's heaven. And I
Speaker 2: just you know, one of the things that motivated me
Speaker 2: to write the book is I just wanted to know
Speaker 2: more about it. I wanted to go back, and I
Speaker 2: did a couple of years after. You know, my doctor said, no,
Speaker 2: you really can't go. You can't fly. You don't have
Speaker 2: a good immune system. You know. She was hemming and
Speaker 2: horn and eventually I say in the book, I say,
Speaker 2: you know, like most people don't know a lot about golf,
Speaker 2: the majority of people out there, but they know what
Speaker 2: the Masters is. And you know, she's seventy years old,
Speaker 2: my oncologist, she has no clue about golf, but she
Speaker 2: knows what the Masters is. You know, she recognizes the
Speaker 2: theme song and she'll watch on Sunday. That's the only
Speaker 2: golf she ever watches. So she gave me permission and
Speaker 2: we ended up going back and I said, you know,
Speaker 2: that's when my mental healing began. You know, the doctors
Speaker 2: that treated me did a phenomenal job. I'm forever grateful
Speaker 2: to what they did, but it just beats you down
Speaker 2: spiritually and mentally, and for me, everybody's got something different.
Speaker 2: That's one of the things I really wanted to do.
Speaker 2: So call it an obsession about Augusta National or the Masters,
Speaker 2: whatever you want, but that's one of the things I
Speaker 2: dreamed of and I've been working on the book for
Speaker 2: three years and it's just been a dream project for
Speaker 2: me because I can't get enough things Augusta. I just
Speaker 2: love everything about what they do because, as you know,
Speaker 2: you've been there, and hopefully you know, people listening if
Speaker 2: they haven't been able to go and keep trying the lottery,
Speaker 2: eventually you'll win. I won the lottery last year for
Speaker 2: the first time ever. It took fifteen years to win,
Speaker 2: so there's hope for anybody to go. And it's I
Speaker 2: think it should be a life goal of anybody because
Speaker 2: you know, Disneyland is for kids, but Augusta's for adults.
Speaker 2: And it's hard to describe right, as much as I
Speaker 2: try to do it in the book, unless you have
Speaker 2: actually been on property and experience at firsthand, it's very
Speaker 2: difficult to relate that, which is why people are so
Speaker 2: insane when they come back from the Masters and they
Speaker 2: lose their minds when they go into the pro shop,
Speaker 2: because it's like you're a kid at a candy story.
Speaker 2: You're like, I finally made it, and I might never
Speaker 2: come back. So I'm going to buy everything, and I'm
Speaker 2: going to give a gift to everybody I know. Yep,
Speaker 2: it's not uncommon, Fred, not uncommon.
Speaker 1: Well, good gee, that makes me feel better. Well, here's
Speaker 1: a little gift for you. John.
Speaker 2: Oh awesome, best song in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there are probably I can think of
Speaker 1: three life goals for golfers. One would be a hole
Speaker 1: in one yep. Two getting to witness the Masters in person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And to me, my ultimate one now is someday shooting
Speaker 1: my ag.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's a good one too. Yeah. Yeah. So it's.
Speaker 1: I hope you're well now, Yes, thank you. I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry about all the troubles that you've been through and.
Speaker 2: I consider myself lucky in many respects. But thank you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and I consider myself lucky because I
Speaker 1: got a chance to talk to you again and about
Speaker 1: this book again. I think if anybody listening, if in
Speaker 1: fact you have or are part of a business that
Speaker 1: you want to help grow, yeah, to look at this
Speaker 1: book and take it seriously. It's called The Augusta Principles.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, thank you, Fred.
Speaker 1: Please please share with us how to find more about
Speaker 1: the book about you where to get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a website. I think I sent the link
Speaker 2: with this episode. There's a website called the Augusta Principles
Speaker 2: that people could visit or google or the books available
Speaker 2: on am on a lot of people buy it on Amazon.
Speaker 2: But thank you for that, Fred.
Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely, John, it was great to catch up again
Speaker 1: after so long. I can't believe the Gulf Smarter is
Speaker 1: still going on and that we were able to reconnect
Speaker 1: after so many years.
Speaker 2: Ye. Well, your podcast is so good, that's why you've
Speaker 2: been doing it for so long.
Speaker 1: Fred, No, I'm just I've got that, you know, the
Speaker 1: OCD thing that we talked about with Clip Roberts, like
Speaker 1: can't stop just can't stop because if I do, I'll
Speaker 1: never come back. I gotta keep going. But it's it's
Speaker 1: been an incredible journey, and I'm so glad to have
Speaker 1: you help me put it all together. On both sides.
Speaker 2: Oh, pleasure is mine.
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Thank you, Fred