Speaker 1: Kabla Talk fifteen eighty. You know, I think you when
Speaker 1: we think about negotiating a lot of times we think
Speaker 1: about hostage situations or life and death situations.
Speaker 2: Like this, good danco.
Speaker 1: But thinking about and thinking about today's conversation we're about
Speaker 1: to have, I realize, based on her work, that every
Speaker 1: just about every minute of our life is a negotiation.
Speaker 1: Welcoming into the space a globally recognized negotiation expert, she's
Speaker 1: a twelve time award winning faculty member at the Wharton School,
Speaker 1: highly sought after speaker, and the author of a book
Speaker 1: called Bring Yourself, How to Harness the Power of Connection
Speaker 1: to Negotiate Fearlessly. Mariy to her poor, thank you for
Speaker 1: joining us this morning.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me very excited to have this conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I I think when we think negotiator,
Speaker 1: we either think, you know, you're you're doing Michael Jackson's
Speaker 1: contract with a big record label, or you're talking to
Speaker 1: a hostage you know, a hostage holder trying to get
Speaker 1: someone out right. But you point out that negotiating is
Speaker 1: not just it's not just life and death.
Speaker 3: It's not just life in death, that it's actually something
Speaker 3: that we do every single day, whether you have a toddler,
Speaker 3: you have pets, whether it's with a loved one, family members,
Speaker 3: lots of women who are entrepreneurs, they do it with
Speaker 3: their landlords and their clients and their vendors, driving in
Speaker 3: traffic negotiations. Literally, it's like it's I always.
Speaker 2: Say, it's the soundtrack of our lives, and we do
Speaker 2: it constantly.
Speaker 1: It's so funny too, because when you said toddler, the
Speaker 1: memories came flitting back in. That's how you do all
Speaker 1: day long, if you have a top or is negotiate.
Speaker 1: I've always considered myself to be terrible at it, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't drive a hard bargain. But it's it's interesting
Speaker 1: when you say, because the stereotype I guess on the
Speaker 1: TV shows, you know, you see a guy with some
Speaker 1: kind of ear piece who is very you know, very
Speaker 1: cop like and methodical and logical and highly trained and
Speaker 1: unemotional sort of negotiating, and I think that you're trying
Speaker 1: to tell us that that ain't it.
Speaker 3: It's not it, And it's unfortunate because I don't know
Speaker 3: of any human that has better negotiation skills than a
Speaker 3: mom actually who has a toddler. You are because you're
Speaker 3: doing it all the time. You have all this practice.
Speaker 3: But the way that society frames it, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. I mean literally, you're like in practice all day.
Speaker 3: But the way society frames it for us, what we
Speaker 3: see in the news or the movies, really is so
Speaker 3: disempowering because we do see just this one model who
Speaker 3: is brash and in your face, and there's like this
Speaker 3: wind lose proposition that feels like a war, a Game
Speaker 3: of Thrones kind of Outlook.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, but what you're talking about is a
Speaker 1: more a model based more in relationships, human connectivity, the
Speaker 1: human spirit, or the human tendency of connection or not connection.
Speaker 1: Is that fair?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Because if you think that there's only one model
Speaker 3: of negotiations, then we all think, well, I can't be
Speaker 3: good at that because I'm not like that guy on TV,
Speaker 3: or I'm not like that hospice negotiator. Where's the reality is,
Speaker 3: there's no one type of model negotiator.
Speaker 2: Everybody can be a great negotiator.
Speaker 3: You have all this experience every single day you're negotiating,
Speaker 3: and if we really understood that, we would realize that
Speaker 3: one it is based on human connections because it is
Speaker 3: just that, and that anybody can be a great negotiator.
Speaker 3: We have practice, we should feel empowered, and we have experience.
Speaker 3: So I think just just believing that alone makes us
Speaker 3: feel more confident that there's no rulebook, that there's no cookbook.
Speaker 3: It's really just bringing your experiences and your values into
Speaker 3: conversation and honoring those things.
Speaker 1: I mean, and just I want to take this moment
Speaker 1: to point out that you have a you have a
Speaker 1: crazy roster of clients. Fortune one hundred companies, major sports leagues,
Speaker 1: big charitable institutions, government agencies. It goes on and on.
Speaker 1: So it's not like you're sitting somewhere, you know, on
Speaker 1: a small island about how we could have this new
Speaker 1: way of negotiating. I mean, you're putting this into action
Speaker 1: in you know, in the middle of the rat race,
Speaker 1: so to speak. Right.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And because I have so many different perspectives and
Speaker 3: you know, thousands of students and experiences, and I've seen
Speaker 3: all kinds of different approaches to negotiations that are quite successful.
Speaker 3: What I've realized is that it's not again a certain
Speaker 3: model or a certain type of person or certain characteristics.
Speaker 3: The best negotiators are those negotiators for authentic who really
Speaker 3: sort of align with their values, know exactly who they are,
Speaker 3: understand their own value, and walk into the negotiations really
Speaker 3: driven by those things, empowered by their own experience and
Speaker 3: their own set up beliefs.
Speaker 1: I mean, it does make sense because if it's value based,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be less likely to back down. But
Speaker 1: I mean doesn't mean I would necessarily be in, you know,
Speaker 1: being more combative. It just means that I'm going to
Speaker 1: stand all my values. I'm going to stand on my principles,
Speaker 1: regardless of the outcome.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: And you know what this is like. When we don't
Speaker 3: abide by our values, when we don't.
Speaker 2: Honor our convictions, it doesn't.
Speaker 3: Matter what the outcome is. We feel like we've lost
Speaker 3: every time because we've given into something that rather than
Speaker 3: rather than honoring what's really really important to us, we've
Speaker 3: compromised on that very thing, and that that can never
Speaker 3: feel good, that can never feel like you've done well
Speaker 3: and the outcome is what you have sought.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting, even just having this conversation right
Speaker 1: now and hearing you speak on it, I think of
Speaker 1: times when just being you know, myself, has de escalated
Speaker 1: a situation within the family or within my workplace that
Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to get anything. I just wanted everyone to,
Speaker 1: you know, be cool and be happy and stop tripping.
Speaker 1: And so I wouldn't necessarily think of that as a negotiation.
Speaker 1: Would you say that.
Speaker 3: It is one hundred percent? Because even what you were
Speaker 3: doing is like mediating.
Speaker 2: Basically, which is also negotiations.
Speaker 3: But hearing one another. You know, listening and negotiations is
Speaker 3: completely underrated, but really truly listening to people you know,
Speaker 3: understanding them, and hearing with your I always say, it's
Speaker 3: not just with your ears, but really with your heart,
Speaker 3: your eyes, your mind, an your ears. It's the entirety
Speaker 3: of the experience when we finally see people, when we
Speaker 3: respect them, and that allows us to not only better
Speaker 3: understand them and their wives, but also to be able
Speaker 3: to communicate in a way that they can hear us.
Speaker 2: Too, because it's not just about you, right.
Speaker 3: This is the classic nor audience kind of you know framework,
Speaker 3: which is you have to communicate things in a way
Speaker 3: that they will hear you, and you bringing in your
Speaker 3: own experience into those situations. One you're standing on what
Speaker 3: you know to be your strength, which is your principles,
Speaker 3: but also communicating in a way that people can actually
Speaker 3: hear you because you know who they are. You're curious
Speaker 3: about them, You're curious about how they're hearing you, how
Speaker 3: they're receiving you. It is I hate to say, it's
Speaker 3: just that simple. And it's not that it's simple, because
Speaker 3: we all need better listening skills. We all need to
Speaker 3: know how to be better present and more mindful. But
Speaker 3: in the sense of there's no tactics, there's no script,
Speaker 3: it's you being authentic.
Speaker 1: Maury's Harraport is our guest. The book is Bring Yourself
Speaker 1: How to Negotiate Fearlessly. Lord knows we could all use
Speaker 1: some lessons on that. We'll continue the conversation when we
Speaker 1: come forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Yes, you're waking
Speaker 1: up with me, and you're waking up with one of
Speaker 1: the world's most recognized negotiation experts. She's a faculty member
Speaker 1: at the Wharton School and award winning one at that
Speaker 1: and the book Bring Yourself, How to Negotiate Fearlessly may
Speaker 1: apply to more than you think, and not just business,
Speaker 1: but also your own life, your career, your path forward.
Speaker 1: I'm you know I was listening to what you're saying
Speaker 1: about bringing your whole self and hearing with your heart
Speaker 1: and not just it's not just about winning or having
Speaker 1: some formula, but about really listening and showing up and
Speaker 1: being present. It's it feels like nationally, internationally, where we
Speaker 1: are in a ruthless era, right, That's how it feels
Speaker 1: very cutthroat, very intense. There's a lot of consolidation, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of sort of at all costs pursuit of
Speaker 1: wealth and such. It doesn't feel like bringing your heart
Speaker 1: and bringing your authentic self, would it might It feels
Speaker 1: like maybe bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you're absolutely right about the environment we're
Speaker 3: living in. Ruthless is actually the perfect word for it.
Speaker 3: But it's because we are living in an environment where
Speaker 3: people really don't see one another, they don't hear one another.
Speaker 3: We're not connected, we're divided. I think oftentimes what makes
Speaker 3: you unique is actually your strength. And so if you
Speaker 3: are negotiating with somebody who comes in truly believing like
Speaker 3: this is going to be war, and yet you are trying.
Speaker 2: To build a connection with them that you are.
Speaker 3: Actually hearing none, You're you have empathy for them you're listening.
Speaker 3: These are such unique traits that you know, people do stop.
Speaker 3: I mean, it sort of stops people in their tracks.
Speaker 3: And I always talk about the fact that before there's
Speaker 3: actually the deal making, the negotiations, there's a whole other stage.
Speaker 2: Which is, you know, what we call information.
Speaker 3: Sharing, which is that notion of forget what's going to
Speaker 3: be transacted, forget about the deal that's coming.
Speaker 2: What about actually connecting with the person sitting in front of.
Speaker 3: You, and whether it's small talk about sports or you know,
Speaker 3: maybe something that the person is wearing, or there's pictures
Speaker 3: of their family in the background, but really inquiring and
Speaker 3: being curious in a way that tells the person you
Speaker 3: are actually more important than the deal that we're about
Speaker 3: to embark on. And that alone creates such a feeling
Speaker 3: of First of all, it's very very It sort of
Speaker 3: sets the person's head spinning because they're like, what's happening, right, Wait.
Speaker 2: There's somebody actually interested in me more.
Speaker 3: Than what the deal is. But this humanity that you
Speaker 3: bring in to the conversation really sets the stage for
Speaker 3: a much easier negotiations and much easier conversation. That's where
Speaker 3: trust is built.
Speaker 2: That's where the humanity is brought in.
Speaker 3: It's a lot easier to do that than to talk numbers.
Speaker 3: And so if you actually give it some breadth and
Speaker 3: depth before you jump into transaction, there's something to build
Speaker 3: on and people remember you.
Speaker 2: People enjoy doing business with you, People will.
Speaker 3: Want to come back to you. You know, I work
Speaker 3: with a lot of entrepreneurs dominique, and I always say,
Speaker 3: you know, people don't choose businesses, they choose people. And
Speaker 3: it's that memory, you know what I mean, That memory
Speaker 3: that you leave with somebody that becomes your value proposition.
Speaker 3: And this is true in relationships, this is true in business,
Speaker 3: this is true in services that you seek, vendors that
Speaker 3: you work with. We always want to go back to
Speaker 3: the person that we actually enjoyed working with. And I
Speaker 3: think that's the It seems so rational, right, and yet
Speaker 3: it's not. We don't often believe that to be true
Speaker 3: in the negotiations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense. You have one one of my
Speaker 1: favorite quotes on your Instagram, which is my Angelo. We
Speaker 1: may encounter many defeats, but we may not. We must
Speaker 1: not be defeated. I tell myself that all the time.
Speaker 1: But the other thing she said is people remember how
Speaker 1: you make them feel right, not what you said, but
Speaker 1: how write right exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: And that's actually one of my favorites from her because
Speaker 3: it's true. Like again, working with small business owners or entrepreneurs,
Speaker 3: I tell me, you know, don't worry about spending all
Speaker 3: that money on websites and this and that, it's really
Speaker 3: about the feeling that you leave with a customer that
Speaker 3: allows them to come back to you. That's that's the value.
Speaker 3: And it's again going back to just even in our
Speaker 3: daily relationships, it's the people that listen to us. It's
Speaker 3: the people that hear us and understand us and invest
Speaker 3: in us as humans that we feel the most comfortable with,
Speaker 3: that we trust the most, that even when things get hard,
Speaker 3: that you're going back to that person because because.
Speaker 2: There is a sense of connection and investment in the
Speaker 2: humanity of it. And that's you know, and again.
Speaker 3: You being your authentic self makes you more empowered to
Speaker 3: do so it's not you're not performing, you're not memorizing lines,
Speaker 3: you're just presence, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I think what's key about that is a lot
Speaker 1: of time, at least for me, a lot of times
Speaker 1: when people are trying to convince you of something or
Speaker 1: negotiate with you, and they do that human connection thing
Speaker 1: in a phony way. It can have just the opposite,
Speaker 1: you know, affact, Hey.
Speaker 3: How about those fakers?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: Right? Right? Yeah, and it is it's like buying a
Speaker 3: youth car, right, It's like you know, I got something
Speaker 3: for you here. No, it's but you know that it's
Speaker 3: we know when somebody is being disingenuous because they haven't
Speaker 3: actually either either they're not paying attention to us, so
Speaker 3: they're not even hearing what you're saying, or they're distracted
Speaker 3: by their cell phone or text, or they haven't done
Speaker 3: their home their homework, right, don't talk to me about
Speaker 3: something that I don't even care about, or did you
Speaker 3: even hear what I just said to you? Did you
Speaker 3: even listen to my answer? Because we shut off when
Speaker 3: we know people don't care, and we know in authenticity
Speaker 3: when we see it, we're not stupid. So but that's
Speaker 3: why I'm saying. The work isn't actually being present, so
Speaker 3: you're actually hearing somebody, but it's also doing the homework
Speaker 3: to know.
Speaker 2: How to connect with this person and really build on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you say it's you say it's sometimes
Speaker 1: it's not about I mean, I'm looking at your Instagram
Speaker 1: and you say that sometimes it's not about just winning.
Speaker 1: You know, we think we think about these things in
Speaker 1: zero some What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: First of all, I never use the words winning or
Speaker 2: losing because they mean different things to different people. And
Speaker 2: you know it's true because my winning may be different
Speaker 2: than somebody else is winning, right my if you're if
Speaker 2: you are somebody that values relationships, and and it's a
Speaker 2: quote quote people, please, your version of winning means both
Speaker 2: sides are happy. To somebody that is more competitive, that
Speaker 2: may not be their definition of winning.
Speaker 3: So winning means different things. But the other part of
Speaker 3: this is the negotiations that the more difficult and yet
Speaker 3: most enjoyable to me. Part of the negotiations is when
Speaker 3: we do this dance that allows us to find places
Speaker 3: where we can compromise, where I'm not giving up the
Speaker 3: most important thing that for me, and you're not giving
Speaker 3: up the most important thing to you. But yet we
Speaker 3: find places where we can compromise and give in a
Speaker 3: way that doesn't feel like, you know, a burden to us,
Speaker 3: and yet feels like, well, you know what, if this
Speaker 3: is what means means the most to you, then great,
Speaker 3: here you go.
Speaker 2: This is what I'm looking for.
Speaker 3: Can we find a way that we can problem solve
Speaker 3: to make this possible for both of us and negotiations
Speaker 3: at the end of the day. To me is really
Speaker 3: this notion of problem solving, not not win lose, but
Speaker 3: finding a.
Speaker 2: Place where we can create these sort of opportunities.
Speaker 3: That are win win. And that's again that's not easy.
Speaker 3: It requires commitment, requires time, it requires understanding, but it
Speaker 3: also allows again going back to that my end. Look, well,
Speaker 3: it gives you this this feeling of I really enjoyed
Speaker 3: doing this with us person. They weren't trying to crush me.
Speaker 3: We were trying to find a way to actually not
Speaker 3: only continue this conversation, but find ways that are beneficial
Speaker 3: for both of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Also I'm reading something here that
Speaker 1: I found quite compelling, which is that when leaders learn
Speaker 1: to take the signals from their nervous systems and from
Speaker 1: their you know, non logical signals coming from their body
Speaker 1: as information rather than interference, they will be a lot
Speaker 1: more successful. It sounds very fairy, but also like really smart.
Speaker 3: It is. It's like, you know, sometimes when I'm teaching,
Speaker 3: I go, I do a lot around manifestation and mindset,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, before we go there, I know this
Speaker 3: may sound very like non Wharton like, but I'm not
Speaker 3: here to talk to you from sort of non human terms.
Speaker 3: I'm here to connect all of these things together. Because
Speaker 3: we are human. We have emotions, we have feelings, we
Speaker 3: we have a nervous system, we have you know, we
Speaker 3: have energy that we carry with us. We have energy
Speaker 3: that we we accept from other people, whether for the
Speaker 3: good or for the bad. Right and when we are
Speaker 3: let's say, let's say, when we get better sleep, when
Speaker 3: we are less stressed, when we have a clearer mind,
Speaker 3: we can make better decisions. When we are burdened, when
Speaker 3: we are stressed, when we are actually not well physically,
Speaker 3: those are the things that actually don't.
Speaker 2: Allow us to make better decisions.
Speaker 3: We're tired, we're burned out, we're overwhelmed, and so our
Speaker 3: minds and bodies really sort of sit together when it comes.
Speaker 2: To negotiations and decision making.
Speaker 3: You can't separate the two. And that's why for everybody
Speaker 3: out there who's experiencing burnout, who is feeling incredibly stressed
Speaker 3: and fearsome, these days because there's so much going on
Speaker 3: around us. Understanding that where you create boundaries, where you
Speaker 3: bring clarity for yourself, where.
Speaker 2: You take those mental and physical breaks, it's really really
Speaker 2: important because.
Speaker 3: Not only is it good for you physically, but it's
Speaker 3: also great for you emotionally and spiritually and makes you
Speaker 3: a better leader, makes you a better partner, makes you
Speaker 3: a better parent, makes you a better decision maker.
Speaker 1: Absolutely more to Hairport is our guests. Bring Yourself How
Speaker 1: to Negotiate Fearlessly continues after News, Traffic and sports only here.
Speaker 1: She's been on Forbes, Inc, Magazine, LinkedIn, Top Voices, Marketplace, Money,
Speaker 1: The Next Chapter, ESPN, and and many more. And she
Speaker 1: is on faculty Wharton. She also has a book that
Speaker 1: we all need to read called Bring Yourself, How to
Speaker 1: Negotiate Fearlessly. And when you were talking about this zero
Speaker 1: sumthing that we get into, you know, sort of the
Speaker 1: predatory negotiator, stomp them out, leave no doubt, win or
Speaker 1: takes all kind of mentality, I was thinking about our relationships,
Speaker 1: our personal relationships love parent, child, even parent teacher or
Speaker 1: I mean child teacher relationships. And if we I think
Speaker 1: it sounds like if we took more of the approach
Speaker 1: that you're you're describing, we would have happier personal relationships,
Speaker 1: not just business relationships.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, honestly, if you think about zero
Speaker 3: some relationship, if you win the deal and lose the relationship,
Speaker 3: you didn't win, And you know what I mean, and
Speaker 3: the person we always think about even in arguments and
Speaker 3: what have you, like, I have to be right, but
Speaker 3: what does that really mean in a course of a
Speaker 3: long term relationship. And honestly, if we could just rethink
Speaker 3: about these things, complex will be reduced. If you start
Speaker 3: thinking about this as more of a collaboration, then you know,
Speaker 3: I have to be right. Well, if you just sit
Speaker 3: back and think, well, what is me being right every time?
Speaker 3: Actually do the to the person that's sitting across from me,
Speaker 3: due to my spouse, or to a friend or a
Speaker 3: family member. That does not That is not foundation for
Speaker 3: long term relationships. That instead is setting up setting the
Speaker 3: grounds for long term resentment. You know, we wonder why
Speaker 3: people get divorces. It's because these conversations aren't had in
Speaker 3: a way that says, let me really hear you, I
Speaker 3: want you to hear me. Let's figure out where we're
Speaker 3: missing one another. That takes empathy and understanding, not how
Speaker 3: am I going to beat you? How am I going
Speaker 3: to be right? And by the way, if we think
Speaker 3: we're right every time, we're actually wrong, because there's no
Speaker 3: way you know that you can know everything. It's if
Speaker 3: you walk through this earth thinking you know everything, is
Speaker 3: opposed to walking through this earth with curiosity and empathy,
Speaker 3: that that leads to a very unfulfilled and unhappy life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of my favorite yng levan Zant quotes.
Speaker 1: She says, would you rather be right or would you
Speaker 1: rather be happy?
Speaker 3: Exactly?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 3: It's absolutely true.
Speaker 1: And I have to remind myself. What about negotiating with ourselves?
Speaker 1: I think the capacity for self deception is so high?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, because oh, there's so many things to us right,
Speaker 3: I always say, the hardest negotiations that I have are
Speaker 3: often with myself. Yeah, giving ourselves compassion, listening to our bodies,
Speaker 3: understanding our own value, dignifying ourselves with time attention, knowing
Speaker 3: what we want and why we deserve it. I mean,
Speaker 3: those two things are really so hard for people to
Speaker 3: wrap their heads around because we don't really spend time
Speaker 3: in introspection and really understanding ourselves. We don't carve out
Speaker 3: that space. It's funny because COVID everybody was in their
Speaker 3: heads right we weren't going anywhere we were And people
Speaker 3: are like, oh my god, I didn't know this about myself.
Speaker 3: You know, well you didn't because it was always go, go, go,
Speaker 3: and even give yourself that space every day to check
Speaker 3: in with yourself and whether it's you know again, I
Speaker 3: work with a lot of entrepreneurs. I myself on this category.
Speaker 3: You know, I wouldn't make time for illnesses like I
Speaker 3: don't have time for that right now. Well, your body
Speaker 3: is saying no, you will make time. And if you
Speaker 3: don't listen, I'm gonna scream. And when that happens, you
Speaker 3: bring down. I mean, there's so little of you left.
Speaker 3: And so if we just actually spent the time checking
Speaker 3: in with ourselves every day, where are you? Are you happy?
Speaker 3: Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? How
Speaker 3: do you feel? You know again, connecting that mind heart,
Speaker 3: a connection that you really allowed you to feed you
Speaker 3: more information? You know, that is so important. That's the
Speaker 3: negotiations in and of itself. Making the space to do
Speaker 3: that is as important as anything else in your life.
Speaker 1: So what is that work that we have to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, whether we're negotiating with especially negotiating with ourselves,
Speaker 1: but negotiating anywhere, what is the work we have to
Speaker 1: do on ourselves to be read? I need to show
Speaker 1: up and be present and listen and you know, be
Speaker 1: compassionate and empathetic.
Speaker 3: That's a few things I think that again, you can't
Speaker 3: do any of that if you're distracted. In these days
Speaker 3: that distractions come from everywhere. Right, I've reduced my I'm
Speaker 3: on a news diet. I always say. I live in DC,
Speaker 3: so news is unavoidable, but it gives me so much
Speaker 3: physical and mental and spiritual stress that I just shut
Speaker 3: it off and I spend that time doing things that
Speaker 3: I really enjoy, whether it's just going outside for a
Speaker 3: quick walk because I'm feeling very stressed, or turning on
Speaker 3: music which is very sort of even spiritually like redeeming
Speaker 3: for me. You know, I'd rather be in that space
Speaker 3: where I'm happy and lifted as opposed to drowned out
Speaker 3: in news that is that feels like it's disintegrating my soul.
Speaker 3: You know that it really is pulling me in all
Speaker 3: different places. That is bring me no joy, So creating
Speaker 3: that space where whether it's five minutes, it's ten minutes,
Speaker 3: it's a half an hour. Really those breaks that you
Speaker 3: take that cuts off everything else and allows you to
Speaker 3: stay in a place where you're hearing yourself and you're
Speaker 3: connecting with yourself and you feel it a place of peace,
Speaker 3: really really important. And these days, I understand even five
Speaker 3: minutes may feel like a lot sometimes when you're ripping
Speaker 3: and roaring.
Speaker 2: In twenty thousand directions, but it's so necessary.
Speaker 3: And then the other part of that is is actually
Speaker 3: spending the time in conversation with yourself, particularly if you're
Speaker 3: going into negotiations or a hard conversation and knowing what
Speaker 3: your values are. I always say those are your non negotiables.
Speaker 3: What is the last time you could really ask yourself,
Speaker 3: what is it that I really want? What is it
Speaker 3: that that's really important to me? That I can't negotiate away?
Speaker 3: Where are my boundaries? And if you don't have those
Speaker 3: conversations with yourself, it's actually not something you can you
Speaker 3: can quickly, you know, go to because you don't understand
Speaker 3: that you haven't had that conversation with yourself, you haven't
Speaker 3: even reflected on it. So how do you have a
Speaker 3: hard negotiations or a hard negotiation, a conversation with someone
Speaker 3: and don't even know what your stand for. You don't
Speaker 3: even know what it is that you want.
Speaker 2: To get out of this conversation.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I absolutely do. I was reading the re reading
Speaker 1: the four Agreements, and one of the things that I
Speaker 1: missed the first time was ask yourself questions like you
Speaker 1: don't even you don't even know your position, So how
Speaker 1: are you going to listen to someone else's position? It
Speaker 1: makes sense I'm in here negotiating, but I don't know
Speaker 1: what I want. That sounds like an exercise in futility.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And you know, even even with salary conversations, compensation conversations,
Speaker 3: you know, we're so focused on the dollar amount sometimes
Speaker 3: that we don't even think, well, if I got to
Speaker 3: hire a salary would I would I be happy in that? Up? Well,
Speaker 3: is it other things that I want? Is it time
Speaker 3: off that I want? Is it do I want to
Speaker 3: go back to school? And that's what I really want
Speaker 3: to ask them for. But if you can't have those
Speaker 3: conversations again with yourself and be really clear, then you're fighting.
Speaker 2: For something you don't not you don't even.
Speaker 3: Want to fight for right and and that's that's absolutely
Speaker 3: the truth of it. It feels really simple right when
Speaker 3: you say it out loud, but because we were like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's easy, but is it really You haven't parked at
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 1: Have you really asked yourself what it would take to
Speaker 1: make you happy and in the job, in the relationship,
Speaker 1: in life. And that's why I love the conversation about
Speaker 1: persistence versus purpose.
Speaker 3: Right, yes, yes, And I want you to actually speak
Speaker 3: to that a little bit more because now that you
Speaker 3: just said that, I'm going back to the four agreements. Okay,
Speaker 3: tell me a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm really basing it on what you're saying, what
Speaker 1: you said, which is kind of like we get on
Speaker 1: we can get on this hamster wheel. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I know I want that, you know, not even I know.
Speaker 1: It's like that's my goal, that's my goal. That's my goal.
Speaker 1: I want to make. I want to make six figures. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be, you know, coach of the Year
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And we've been chasing it for
Speaker 1: so long that we forget to check in and say, well,
Speaker 1: is this my purpose? Am I in alignment with is
Speaker 1: you know, is this coming with God's blessings? Do I
Speaker 1: even want this anymore? Or, as my late friend Jim
Speaker 1: Brown used to say, am I willing to pay the
Speaker 1: cost to be the boss?
Speaker 3: You know? Exactly exactly, And we're almost almost pre programmed,
Speaker 3: if you will, And we associate certain things with for example,
Speaker 3: what success means, right, right, And that's why that's why
Speaker 3: people get all the success of the world. They get
Speaker 3: the position, they get the accolades, and yet they still
Speaker 3: find themselves unhappy. It's because what they were thinking they
Speaker 3: should be striving for wasn't, like you just said, in
Speaker 3: alignment with their spirit. It wasn't in aligned, in alignment
Speaker 3: with their values. It wasn't even aligned with where they
Speaker 3: are in life today as opposed to where they were
Speaker 3: maybe like fifteen years ago when they set out on
Speaker 3: this path. Right.
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, And we always say and we always talk about, like,
Speaker 4: you know, again, the four agreements, the notion of like.
Speaker 2: Don't make assumptions.
Speaker 3: We make a lot of assumptions about how we're supposed
Speaker 3: to show up in this world. But what we don't
Speaker 3: do is check in with ourselves and say, but is
Speaker 3: that what makes you happy? Is that what you actually
Speaker 3: want or or have you forgotten to make that connection
Speaker 3: in so long that now that you're here, you're miserable
Speaker 3: and really sitting with yourself allows you to do that dominique,
Speaker 3: and we just don't give ourselves that space.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know it again. It sounds airy fairy,
Speaker 1: but for me, just even of five, ten, fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: of meditation every day, I don't know why it helps,
Speaker 1: but it seems to help, so I do it. Whatever
Speaker 1: that is. You know, for those of us who like
Speaker 1: to go a thousand miles an hour whatever that is,
Speaker 1: to slow down, it seems to help the brain, the body,
Speaker 1: and the.
Speaker 3: Spirit absolutely, and meditation is tough for some people. It
Speaker 3: really is, me included, because my head is going a
Speaker 3: million miles on aro. And I used to think what
Speaker 3: meditation meant was to don't think about anything that's impossible
Speaker 3: but impossible. But things like breathing, not meique, are so important,
Speaker 3: just to oxygen that your brain gets and sitting there
Speaker 3: and taking you know, five deep breasts like it doesn't
Speaker 3: have to be a big commitment, right, it just means
Speaker 3: stop your body is talking to you. Stop. You're on
Speaker 3: automatic you're running on auto drive, and you don't even
Speaker 3: know where you're going, Like, you know, just just sit
Speaker 3: still for for a few minutes and breathe, breathe deeply,
Speaker 3: and maybe just go instead of you don't have to
Speaker 3: go on a five mile walk. You can just walk
Speaker 3: around your block for a moment and be a nature
Speaker 3: and and just give your body something else to feel
Speaker 3: and see and just that change of environment sometimes is
Speaker 3: what you need. But you have to be aware that
Speaker 3: you need it, otherwise you just keep going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Well, more to her poor is our
Speaker 1: guests Bring Yourself how to Negotiate Fearlessly, The fearlessly part
Speaker 1: I want to talk about a little bit more when
Speaker 1: we come forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: feeling a lot more confident about just whatever I have
Speaker 1: to negotiate, whether it's with myself, my family, or in
Speaker 1: business after this short conversation, so not that short. Thank
Speaker 1: you for spending the hour with us. More in terror
Speaker 1: port to tell us how to follow you to obviously,
Speaker 1: other than going and buying the book Bring Yourself how
Speaker 1: to Negotiate Fearlessly, which I seems like a great start,
Speaker 1: But how else shall we follow you?
Speaker 3: So actually, my website is probably the most resourceful place
Speaker 3: where you can go because it's all my blogs, all
Speaker 3: my newsletters are there. I've done probably over one hundred
Speaker 3: podcasts with different topics, so it's all there on my
Speaker 3: website that's just more into Harryport dot com. But I'm
Speaker 3: on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram, and obviously the book you
Speaker 3: can find anywhere where you buy books. So I'm around,
Speaker 3: I'm just about everywhere.
Speaker 1: You're everywhere all at once, and yet you're present and mindful.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about the fearlessly part. I think one
Speaker 1: of the biggest things that makes negotiation tough, especially in
Speaker 1: the workplace or in the marketplace, at least for me,
Speaker 1: is fear. Fear of going too far, fear of not
Speaker 1: going far enough, fear of being embarrassed, fear of not
Speaker 1: knowing what I'm doing, whatever it might be.
Speaker 3: Right. So, first, I don't believe that when I say,
Speaker 3: you know, I use fearlessly.
Speaker 2: In the sentence with negotiations, it.
Speaker 3: Doesn't mean that you lack the anxiety or the fear
Speaker 3: of starting these conversations, you know. It's I acknowledge that
Speaker 3: there's a lot of anxiety when people hear the word negotiations.
Speaker 3: They're like, oh my god, I'm so bad at it,
Speaker 3: I just don't even want to do it, or oh
Speaker 3: my god, if I do it, what if they think
Speaker 3: I'm greedy, particularly women.
Speaker 2: Or you know, I don't want to ruin this relationship, or.
Speaker 3: I don't like conflicts, so I don't want to negotiate.
Speaker 3: The truth is, if you know there is anxiety, you know, anytime,
Speaker 3: particularly if there's a transaction to be dealt with, money
Speaker 3: is a very hard conversation for people to have and
Speaker 3: sleep to negotiate around. So I think it takes reframing
Speaker 3: if we start thinking stop thinking.
Speaker 2: About negotiations again as that sort of.
Speaker 3: One lose proposition that somebody's gonna walk away unhappy, and
Speaker 3: instead think about it as we're just problem solving. We're
Speaker 3: going to have a conversation. And you know, some conversations
Speaker 3: are hard and some are easier, but all this is
Speaker 3: is a conversation. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: if I don't engage in this conversation, the answer is
Speaker 3: always know, if I don't engage in this conversation, I
Speaker 3: will never get what I'm what I'm looking for. And
Speaker 3: so because I'm ignoring it actually puts me in a
Speaker 3: place where I will regret not having done it. You know,
Speaker 3: we regret all the studies show us we regret the
Speaker 3: things that we don't do more than the things that
Speaker 3: we do. And maybe it doesn't go our way. And
Speaker 3: so you know, asking is the first step. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: it's a necessary step.
Speaker 1: I want to circle back quickly to something you said
Speaker 1: earlier in the conversation that kind of flew by, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, your the thing that makes you uniquely you
Speaker 1: can be your strength in a negotiation. And I would imagine,
Speaker 1: and this is a question, even if it doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like one, that that includes things that are generally considered
Speaker 1: by ourselves or others to be flaws in ourselves.
Speaker 3: We'll all laws and I think I think the notion
Speaker 3: of and again this was really early in our conversation today,
Speaker 3: which is what is a negotiator, a skilled negotiator or
Speaker 3: a successful negotiator? Look like, what are those characteristics? And
Speaker 3: the truth is there isn't one model. The truth is
Speaker 3: that we're trying to live up to this person or
Speaker 3: trying to speak in a way or bring different attributes
Speaker 3: to the table that aren't ours. That it really is
Speaker 3: a performance, you know, and and when we are performing, we.
Speaker 2: Are not present because we're constantly.
Speaker 3: Thinking in our heads. Was that what I was supposed
Speaker 3: to say? Or how am I supposed to say this
Speaker 3: other thing? Or you know, and and I know, you know,
Speaker 3: you walk into negotiations again. Women go through this a lot.
Speaker 3: What am I supposed to be wearing? Am I supposed
Speaker 3: to smile?
Speaker 2: Am I supposed to not smile?
Speaker 3: Or should I be leaning in? Should I leaning be
Speaker 3: leaning back? There's this concept of mirroring that people talk
Speaker 3: about negotiations, which I don't subscribe to at all. And
Speaker 3: all that means is when they lean in, you lean in.
Speaker 3: When they smile, you smile. That is the furthest thing
Speaker 3: from being authentic. This is a performance and it's exhausting.
Speaker 3: It is exhausting, and we can't you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: we can't think clearly.
Speaker 1: So I mean the reason I'm cracking up is because
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're in the middle of the negotiation
Speaker 1: going who am I supposed to be?
Speaker 3: Like exactly that's historically and it's like and it's like,
Speaker 3: by the way, it's like you know, the Goldilock syndrome, right,
Speaker 3: Like you're supposed to smile, but don't fill too much.
Speaker 3: You're supposed to sort of lean into a conversation. Don't
Speaker 3: lean in too hard because they made and you're aggressive,
Speaker 3: and it's it's it's a full choice. So I always say,
Speaker 3: the easiest person for you to be is yourself, the
Speaker 3: one that requires the least amount of memorization and performance.
Speaker 3: Is you being yourself? Now, do you want to show
Speaker 3: up and be successful in negotiations? Yes, And of course
Speaker 3: that requires things like preparation. That requires you being fully
Speaker 3: present and not distracted. That requires you putting your phone
Speaker 3: away so your mind doesn't go somewhere else. That requires
Speaker 3: you to be curious, That requires you to ask questions.
Speaker 3: So all those things are true, but none of those
Speaker 3: things are performance. And you know the risk of authenticity
Speaker 3: is vulnerability, and if that's the biggest risk that you're taking,
Speaker 3: well great, because what that means is that you're actually
Speaker 3: connected to the person, and you're connected, you're better connected
Speaker 3: with yourself, and I think that's really important.
Speaker 4: It will leave you feeling a lot more empowered and
Speaker 4: I'm a lot more fulfilled when you know that you
Speaker 4: are presenting as.
Speaker 3: Yourself as opposed to pretending to be somebody that you're
Speaker 3: not and then at the end not doing well anyway,
Speaker 3: and that just you feel like a deer in headlights.
Speaker 3: And that's that's not a great feeling.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, if I when I'm hearing you say that,
Speaker 1: we are just diluting ourselves because we're vulnerable even when
Speaker 1: we're being phony, we just you know, have we we
Speaker 1: have protected ourselves. But you still didn't get the job,
Speaker 1: the raise, the whatever, So you were still vulnerable. You
Speaker 1: were just vulnerable while wearing a mask, if that makes
Speaker 1: any sense exactly. Mary's Harbor to hare Port. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for spending the hour with us. This has
Speaker 1: been a very inspiring conversation. I can't wait to read more.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: This has been a great conversation and I appreciate you, and.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you as well. For women, we it's time
Speaker 1: for us to come up out of those those parts
Speaker 1: of the gender expectations that hold us back. And this
Speaker 1: sounds like one great step towards that. Speaking of great women,
Speaker 1: Nina Turner will be featured next hour as well. New
Speaker 1: York Times writer Jimlboy jam Pack show Straight Ahead, don't
Speaker 1: forget to Tap in with Me on social media. I'm
Speaker 1: at Daprima Radio like my mama. The late great Poet
Speaker 1: Laureate of San Francisco, Diane da Prima, used to say,
Speaker 1: the ultimate famine is the starvation of the imagination. Until tomorrow,
Speaker 1: my KBLA delegation, One Love,