WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:07.599 Kabla Talk fifteen eighty. You know, I think you when 2 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:10.080 we think about negotiating a lot of times we think 3 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:14.160 about hostage situations or life and death situations. 4 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:16.120 Like this, good danco. 5 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:22.440 But thinking about and thinking about today's conversation we're about 6 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:27.440 to have, I realize, based on her work, that every 7 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:29.960 just about every minute of our life is a negotiation. 8 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:34.960 Welcoming into the space a globally recognized negotiation expert, she's 9 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.520 a twelve time award winning faculty member at the Wharton School, 10 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:42.320 highly sought after speaker, and the author of a book 11 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:46.119 called Bring Yourself, How to Harness the Power of Connection 12 00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:52.479 to Negotiate Fearlessly. Mariy to her poor, thank you for 13 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:53.560 joining us this morning. 14 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:57.960 Thank you for having me very excited to have this conversation. 15 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.159 Yeah, you know, I I think when we think negotiator, 16 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:07.920 we either think, you know, you're you're doing Michael Jackson's 17 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:11.439 contract with a big record label, or you're talking to 18 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:16.319 a hostage you know, a hostage holder trying to get 19 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:20.560 someone out right. But you point out that negotiating is 20 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:23.319 not just it's not just life and death. 21 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:27.480 It's not just life in death, that it's actually something 22 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:31.560 that we do every single day, whether you have a toddler, 23 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:36.480 you have pets, whether it's with a loved one, family members, 24 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:39.560 lots of women who are entrepreneurs, they do it with 25 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:44.319 their landlords and their clients and their vendors, driving in 26 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:50.239 traffic negotiations. Literally, it's like it's I always. 27 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:52.159 Say, it's the soundtrack of our lives, and we do 28 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:52.879 it constantly. 29 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:56.560 It's so funny too, because when you said toddler, the 30 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:58.760 memories came flitting back in. That's how you do all 31 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:01.400 day long, if you have a top or is negotiate. 32 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:05.879 I've always considered myself to be terrible at it, you know, 33 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:10.520 I don't drive a hard bargain. But it's it's interesting 34 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:14.960 when you say, because the stereotype I guess on the 35 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:16.879 TV shows, you know, you see a guy with some 36 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:22.439 kind of ear piece who is very you know, very 37 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:28.080 cop like and methodical and logical and highly trained and 38 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:34.840 unemotional sort of negotiating, and I think that you're trying 39 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:38.400 to tell us that that ain't it. 40 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:41.599 It's not it, And it's unfortunate because I don't know 41 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.479 of any human that has better negotiation skills than a 42 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:49.599 mom actually who has a toddler. You are because you're 43 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:51.960 doing it all the time. You have all this practice. 44 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:54.919 But the way that society frames it, you know what 45 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:57.639 I mean. I mean literally, you're like in practice all day. 46 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:01.360 But the way society frames it for us, what we 47 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:04.439 see in the news or the movies, really is so 48 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:09.159 disempowering because we do see just this one model who 49 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:12.400 is brash and in your face, and there's like this 50 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:16.319 wind lose proposition that feels like a war, a Game 51 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.199 of Thrones kind of Outlook. 52 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:24.400 Yeah, I mean, but what you're talking about is a 53 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:31.879 more a model based more in relationships, human connectivity, the 54 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:39.879 human spirit, or the human tendency of connection or not connection. 55 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:44.479 Is that fair? 56 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:49.800 Absolutely? Because if you think that there's only one model 57 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:54.039 of negotiations, then we all think, well, I can't be 58 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:57.080 good at that because I'm not like that guy on TV, 59 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:00.280 or I'm not like that hospice negotiator. Where's the reality is, 60 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.800 there's no one type of model negotiator. 61 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:05.520 Everybody can be a great negotiator. 62 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:09.520 You have all this experience every single day you're negotiating, 63 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.039 and if we really understood that, we would realize that 64 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.520 one it is based on human connections because it is 65 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.519 just that, and that anybody can be a great negotiator. 66 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:22.560 We have practice, we should feel empowered, and we have experience. 67 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:26.720 So I think just just believing that alone makes us 68 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:30.079 feel more confident that there's no rulebook, that there's no cookbook. 69 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:34.920 It's really just bringing your experiences and your values into 70 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:37.720 conversation and honoring those things. 71 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:40.759 I mean, and just I want to take this moment 72 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:45.079 to point out that you have a you have a 73 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:51.040 crazy roster of clients. Fortune one hundred companies, major sports leagues, 74 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:55.279 big charitable institutions, government agencies. It goes on and on. 75 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:58.319 So it's not like you're sitting somewhere, you know, on 76 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:03.240 a small island about how we could have this new 77 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.959 way of negotiating. I mean, you're putting this into action 78 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:09.439 in you know, in the middle of the rat race, 79 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:10.399 so to speak. Right. 80 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:16.279 Absolutely, And because I have so many different perspectives and 81 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:20.519 you know, thousands of students and experiences, and I've seen 82 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:25.439 all kinds of different approaches to negotiations that are quite successful. 83 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.920 What I've realized is that it's not again a certain 84 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.959 model or a certain type of person or certain characteristics. 85 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:38.639 The best negotiators are those negotiators for authentic who really 86 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.439 sort of align with their values, know exactly who they are, 87 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:47.680 understand their own value, and walk into the negotiations really 88 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:51.120 driven by those things, empowered by their own experience and 89 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:52.759 their own set up beliefs. 90 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:55.600 I mean, it does make sense because if it's value based, 91 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:00.519 I'm going to be less likely to back down. But 92 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:03.800 I mean doesn't mean I would necessarily be in, you know, 93 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.439 being more combative. It just means that I'm going to 94 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.360 stand all my values. I'm going to stand on my principles, 95 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.360 regardless of the outcome. 96 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:13.800 Exactly exactly. 97 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:17.079 And you know what this is like. When we don't 98 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.399 abide by our values, when we don't. 99 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:21.560 Honor our convictions, it doesn't. 100 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:24.319 Matter what the outcome is. We feel like we've lost 101 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:28.839 every time because we've given into something that rather than 102 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:32.720 rather than honoring what's really really important to us, we've 103 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.439 compromised on that very thing, and that that can never 104 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:39.000 feel good, that can never feel like you've done well 105 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:41.120 and the outcome is what you have sought. 106 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:44.240 Yeah, it's really interesting, even just having this conversation right 107 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:47.600 now and hearing you speak on it, I think of 108 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:53.240 times when just being you know, myself, has de escalated 109 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:58.199 a situation within the family or within my workplace that 110 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.720 I wasn't trying to get anything. I just wanted everyone to, 111 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:06.079 you know, be cool and be happy and stop tripping. 112 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:10.720 And so I wouldn't necessarily think of that as a negotiation. 113 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:12.160 Would you say that. 114 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:19.279 It is one hundred percent? Because even what you were 115 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:20.920 doing is like mediating. 116 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:23.319 Basically, which is also negotiations. 117 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:26.920 But hearing one another. You know, listening and negotiations is 118 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:31.040 completely underrated, but really truly listening to people you know, 119 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:35.360 understanding them, and hearing with your I always say, it's 120 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:37.720 not just with your ears, but really with your heart, 121 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:42.600 your eyes, your mind, an your ears. It's the entirety 122 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:45.079 of the experience when we finally see people, when we 123 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:49.920 respect them, and that allows us to not only better 124 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:53.680 understand them and their wives, but also to be able 125 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:55.680 to communicate in a way that they can hear us. 126 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:58.519 Too, because it's not just about you, right. 127 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:04.519 This is the classic nor audience kind of you know framework, 128 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:07.839 which is you have to communicate things in a way 129 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:09.879 that they will hear you, and you bringing in your 130 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.839 own experience into those situations. One you're standing on what 131 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.040 you know to be your strength, which is your principles, 132 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:20.439 but also communicating in a way that people can actually 133 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:23.279 hear you because you know who they are. You're curious 134 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:25.519 about them, You're curious about how they're hearing you, how 135 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:29.360 they're receiving you. It is I hate to say, it's 136 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:31.480 just that simple. And it's not that it's simple, because 137 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:33.720 we all need better listening skills. We all need to 138 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.559 know how to be better present and more mindful. But 139 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.879 in the sense of there's no tactics, there's no script, 140 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:43.759 it's you being authentic. 141 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:49.159 Maury's Harraport is our guest. The book is Bring Yourself 142 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:52.399 How to Negotiate Fearlessly. Lord knows we could all use 143 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:55.519 some lessons on that. We'll continue the conversation when we 144 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:59.639 come forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Yes, you're waking 145 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:02.320 up with me, and you're waking up with one of 146 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:08.240 the world's most recognized negotiation experts. She's a faculty member 147 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:10.559 at the Wharton School and award winning one at that 148 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:15.759 and the book Bring Yourself, How to Negotiate Fearlessly may 149 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.360 apply to more than you think, and not just business, 150 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:23.399 but also your own life, your career, your path forward. 151 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.000 I'm you know I was listening to what you're saying 152 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.120 about bringing your whole self and hearing with your heart 153 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:35.679 and not just it's not just about winning or having 154 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:40.480 some formula, but about really listening and showing up and 155 00:09:40.519 --> 00:09:47.159 being present. It's it feels like nationally, internationally, where we 156 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:50.399 are in a ruthless era, right, That's how it feels 157 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:58.240 very cutthroat, very intense. There's a lot of consolidation, there's 158 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:03.279 a lot of sort of at all costs pursuit of 159 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.559 wealth and such. It doesn't feel like bringing your heart 160 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:11.559 and bringing your authentic self, would it might It feels 161 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:13.320 like maybe bringing a knife to a gunfight. 162 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:18.360 Well, I mean, you're absolutely right about the environment we're 163 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.720 living in. Ruthless is actually the perfect word for it. 164 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:27.480 But it's because we are living in an environment where 165 00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:30.799 people really don't see one another, they don't hear one another. 166 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:38.159 We're not connected, we're divided. I think oftentimes what makes 167 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:41.879 you unique is actually your strength. And so if you 168 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:47.600 are negotiating with somebody who comes in truly believing like 169 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:51.639 this is going to be war, and yet you are trying. 170 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:53.360 To build a connection with them that you are. 171 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:57.559 Actually hearing none, You're you have empathy for them you're listening. 172 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:02.519 These are such unique traits that you know, people do stop. 173 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:04.480 I mean, it sort of stops people in their tracks. 174 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:06.960 And I always talk about the fact that before there's 175 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:11.240 actually the deal making, the negotiations, there's a whole other stage. 176 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:13.039 Which is, you know, what we call information. 177 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:15.799 Sharing, which is that notion of forget what's going to 178 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:18.279 be transacted, forget about the deal that's coming. 179 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:21.559 What about actually connecting with the person sitting in front of. 180 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:25.720 You, and whether it's small talk about sports or you know, 181 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:28.639 maybe something that the person is wearing, or there's pictures 182 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:33.600 of their family in the background, but really inquiring and 183 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:36.480 being curious in a way that tells the person you 184 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:39.039 are actually more important than the deal that we're about 185 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:45.840 to embark on. And that alone creates such a feeling 186 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:50.480 of First of all, it's very very It sort of 187 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:54.159 sets the person's head spinning because they're like, what's happening, right, Wait. 188 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:55.879 There's somebody actually interested in me more. 189 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:58.759 Than what the deal is. But this humanity that you 190 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:03.159 bring in to the conversation really sets the stage for 191 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:06.919 a much easier negotiations and much easier conversation. That's where 192 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:07.679 trust is built. 193 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:09.360 That's where the humanity is brought in. 194 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.559 It's a lot easier to do that than to talk numbers. 195 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.080 And so if you actually give it some breadth and 196 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.679 depth before you jump into transaction, there's something to build 197 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:22.200 on and people remember you. 198 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:24.840 People enjoy doing business with you, People will. 199 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:26.799 Want to come back to you. You know, I work 200 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:28.879 with a lot of entrepreneurs dominique, and I always say, 201 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:33.559 you know, people don't choose businesses, they choose people. And 202 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.320 it's that memory, you know what I mean, That memory 203 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:39.279 that you leave with somebody that becomes your value proposition. 204 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:42.120 And this is true in relationships, this is true in business, 205 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:46.600 this is true in services that you seek, vendors that 206 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:48.519 you work with. We always want to go back to 207 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:51.879 the person that we actually enjoyed working with. And I 208 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:55.080 think that's the It seems so rational, right, and yet 209 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:57.399 it's not. We don't often believe that to be true 210 00:12:57.399 --> 00:12:58.360 in the negotiations. 211 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:00.279 Yeah, it makes sense. You have one one of my 212 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:03.200 favorite quotes on your Instagram, which is my Angelo. We 213 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:06.600 may encounter many defeats, but we may not. We must 214 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:09.600 not be defeated. I tell myself that all the time. 215 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:11.960 But the other thing she said is people remember how 216 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:14.480 you make them feel right, not what you said, but 217 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:18.679 how write right exactly exactly. 218 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:20.879 And that's actually one of my favorites from her because 219 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:24.519 it's true. Like again, working with small business owners or entrepreneurs, 220 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:26.960 I tell me, you know, don't worry about spending all 221 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.480 that money on websites and this and that, it's really 222 00:13:30.519 --> 00:13:33.440 about the feeling that you leave with a customer that 223 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:36.200 allows them to come back to you. That's that's the value. 224 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:39.000 And it's again going back to just even in our 225 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:42.519 daily relationships, it's the people that listen to us. It's 226 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:45.919 the people that hear us and understand us and invest 227 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:49.600 in us as humans that we feel the most comfortable with, 228 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:53.039 that we trust the most, that even when things get hard, 229 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:55.919 that you're going back to that person because because. 230 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:58.000 There is a sense of connection and investment in the 231 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:02.679 humanity of it. And that's you know, and again. 232 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.879 You being your authentic self makes you more empowered to 233 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.600 do so it's not you're not performing, you're not memorizing lines, 234 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:12.279 you're just presence, you know what I mean. 235 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:14.279 And I think what's key about that is a lot 236 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:15.639 of time, at least for me, a lot of times 237 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:17.960 when people are trying to convince you of something or 238 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:21.960 negotiate with you, and they do that human connection thing 239 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:24.080 in a phony way. It can have just the opposite, 240 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:25.519 you know, affact, Hey. 241 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:26.840 How about those fakers? 242 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:27.240 You know? 243 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:32.480 Right? Right? Yeah, and it is it's like buying a 244 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:36.240 youth car, right, It's like you know, I got something 245 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.080 for you here. No, it's but you know that it's 246 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:43.399 we know when somebody is being disingenuous because they haven't 247 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.240 actually either either they're not paying attention to us, so 248 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.080 they're not even hearing what you're saying, or they're distracted 249 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:52.279 by their cell phone or text, or they haven't done 250 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:55.000 their home their homework, right, don't talk to me about 251 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.399 something that I don't even care about, or did you 252 00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.039 even hear what I just said to you? Did you 253 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:01.679 even listen to my answer? Because we shut off when 254 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:05.600 we know people don't care, and we know in authenticity 255 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:09.840 when we see it, we're not stupid. So but that's 256 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.279 why I'm saying. The work isn't actually being present, so 257 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.200 you're actually hearing somebody, but it's also doing the homework 258 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:16.159 to know. 259 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.200 How to connect with this person and really build on that. 260 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:26.960 Yeah, you know you say it's you say it's sometimes 261 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:30.600 it's not about I mean, I'm looking at your Instagram 262 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:34.759 and you say that sometimes it's not about just winning. 263 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:38.120 You know, we think we think about these things in 264 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:39.679 zero some What do you mean by that? 265 00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:44.080 First of all, I never use the words winning or 266 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:47.799 losing because they mean different things to different people. And 267 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.759 you know it's true because my winning may be different 268 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:54.879 than somebody else is winning, right my if you're if 269 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.279 you are somebody that values relationships, and and it's a 270 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:02.440 quote quote people, please, your version of winning means both 271 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.679 sides are happy. To somebody that is more competitive, that 272 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.279 may not be their definition of winning. 273 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:12.879 So winning means different things. But the other part of 274 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:18.240 this is the negotiations that the more difficult and yet 275 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.399 most enjoyable to me. Part of the negotiations is when 276 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:25.039 we do this dance that allows us to find places 277 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.600 where we can compromise, where I'm not giving up the 278 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:30.600 most important thing that for me, and you're not giving 279 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.399 up the most important thing to you. But yet we 280 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:36.639 find places where we can compromise and give in a 281 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:39.440 way that doesn't feel like, you know, a burden to us, 282 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:41.960 and yet feels like, well, you know what, if this 283 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.919 is what means means the most to you, then great, 284 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:45.559 here you go. 285 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:47.200 This is what I'm looking for. 286 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:49.799 Can we find a way that we can problem solve 287 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.240 to make this possible for both of us and negotiations 288 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:54.759 at the end of the day. To me is really 289 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:58.720 this notion of problem solving, not not win lose, but 290 00:16:58.840 --> 00:16:59.320 finding a. 291 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.399 Place where we can create these sort of opportunities. 292 00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:07.519 That are win win. And that's again that's not easy. 293 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:12.759 It requires commitment, requires time, it requires understanding, but it 294 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.359 also allows again going back to that my end. Look, well, 295 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:18.680 it gives you this this feeling of I really enjoyed 296 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:20.880 doing this with us person. They weren't trying to crush me. 297 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:23.599 We were trying to find a way to actually not 298 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.599 only continue this conversation, but find ways that are beneficial 299 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:27.799 for both of us. 300 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:31.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Also I'm reading something here that 301 00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:37.640 I found quite compelling, which is that when leaders learn 302 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.839 to take the signals from their nervous systems and from 303 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:46.599 their you know, non logical signals coming from their body 304 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:50.880 as information rather than interference, they will be a lot 305 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:57.920 more successful. It sounds very fairy, but also like really smart. 306 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:00.640 It is. It's like, you know, sometimes when I'm teaching, 307 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.920 I go, I do a lot around manifestation and mindset, 308 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:06.880 and I'm like, before we go there, I know this 309 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:09.359 may sound very like non Wharton like, but I'm not 310 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:15.000 here to talk to you from sort of non human terms. 311 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.519 I'm here to connect all of these things together. Because 312 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:22.759 we are human. We have emotions, we have feelings, we 313 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.680 we have a nervous system, we have you know, we 314 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:28.359 have energy that we carry with us. We have energy 315 00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:32.279 that we we accept from other people, whether for the 316 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:36.240 good or for the bad. Right and when we are 317 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:39.319 let's say, let's say, when we get better sleep, when 318 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:42.079 we are less stressed, when we have a clearer mind, 319 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:46.680 we can make better decisions. When we are burdened, when 320 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:51.519 we are stressed, when we are actually not well physically, 321 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:55.200 those are the things that actually don't. 322 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.559 Allow us to make better decisions. 323 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:01.880 We're tired, we're burned out, we're overwhelmed, and so our 324 00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:07.720 minds and bodies really sort of sit together when it comes. 325 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:09.880 To negotiations and decision making. 326 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:13.079 You can't separate the two. And that's why for everybody 327 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:19.640 out there who's experiencing burnout, who is feeling incredibly stressed 328 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:22.680 and fearsome, these days because there's so much going on 329 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.920 around us. Understanding that where you create boundaries, where you 330 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:28.839 bring clarity for yourself, where. 331 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:32.119 You take those mental and physical breaks, it's really really 332 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:33.880 important because. 333 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:35.759 Not only is it good for you physically, but it's 334 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:41.359 also great for you emotionally and spiritually and makes you 335 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:44.440 a better leader, makes you a better partner, makes you 336 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.720 a better parent, makes you a better decision maker. 337 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.160 Absolutely more to Hairport is our guests. Bring Yourself How 338 00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:55.799 to Negotiate Fearlessly continues after News, Traffic and sports only here. 339 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:02.920 She's been on Forbes, Inc, Magazine, LinkedIn, Top Voices, Marketplace, Money, 340 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.680 The Next Chapter, ESPN, and and many more. And she 341 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:12.559 is on faculty Wharton. She also has a book that 342 00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:15.200 we all need to read called Bring Yourself, How to 343 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:19.440 Negotiate Fearlessly. And when you were talking about this zero 344 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:22.640 sumthing that we get into, you know, sort of the 345 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:28.319 predatory negotiator, stomp them out, leave no doubt, win or 346 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:32.519 takes all kind of mentality, I was thinking about our relationships, 347 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:38.720 our personal relationships love parent, child, even parent teacher or 348 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:42.559 I mean child teacher relationships. And if we I think 349 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:45.759 it sounds like if we took more of the approach 350 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:51.480 that you're you're describing, we would have happier personal relationships, 351 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:55.000 not just business relationships. 352 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:59.480 Yeah. And you know, honestly, if you think about zero 353 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:04.599 some relationship, if you win the deal and lose the relationship, 354 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:08.799 you didn't win, And you know what I mean, and 355 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.799 the person we always think about even in arguments and 356 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:13.839 what have you, like, I have to be right, but 357 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:17.319 what does that really mean in a course of a 358 00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:22.599 long term relationship. And honestly, if we could just rethink 359 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.640 about these things, complex will be reduced. If you start 360 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.319 thinking about this as more of a collaboration, then you know, 361 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:34.039 I have to be right. Well, if you just sit 362 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:36.640 back and think, well, what is me being right every time? 363 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:40.279 Actually do the to the person that's sitting across from me, 364 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:43.000 due to my spouse, or to a friend or a 365 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:48.519 family member. That does not That is not foundation for 366 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.079 long term relationships. That instead is setting up setting the 367 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:56.400 grounds for long term resentment. You know, we wonder why 368 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.119 people get divorces. It's because these conversations aren't had in 369 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.799 a way that says, let me really hear you, I 370 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.920 want you to hear me. Let's figure out where we're 371 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:09.799 missing one another. That takes empathy and understanding, not how 372 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.480 am I going to beat you? How am I going 373 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.000 to be right? And by the way, if we think 374 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:19.279 we're right every time, we're actually wrong, because there's no 375 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:23.119 way you know that you can know everything. It's if 376 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:25.480 you walk through this earth thinking you know everything, is 377 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:29.200 opposed to walking through this earth with curiosity and empathy, 378 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:34.920 that that leads to a very unfulfilled and unhappy life. 379 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:38.519 Yeah, it's one of my favorite yng levan Zant quotes. 380 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:40.839 She says, would you rather be right or would you 381 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:42.079 rather be happy? 382 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:43.559 Exactly? 383 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:44.559 Exactly? 384 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:46.160 It's absolutely true. 385 00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:49.759 And I have to remind myself. What about negotiating with ourselves? 386 00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:55.680 I think the capacity for self deception is so high? 387 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:03.519 Yes, yes, because oh, there's so many things to us right, 388 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:05.799 I always say, the hardest negotiations that I have are 389 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:12.519 often with myself. Yeah, giving ourselves compassion, listening to our bodies, 390 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:24.880 understanding our own value, dignifying ourselves with time attention, knowing 391 00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:27.440 what we want and why we deserve it. I mean, 392 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.319 those two things are really so hard for people to 393 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:33.599 wrap their heads around because we don't really spend time 394 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:39.920 in introspection and really understanding ourselves. We don't carve out 395 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:43.759 that space. It's funny because COVID everybody was in their 396 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:48.000 heads right we weren't going anywhere we were And people 397 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:50.160 are like, oh my god, I didn't know this about myself. 398 00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:53.720 You know, well you didn't because it was always go, go, go, 399 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:56.720 and even give yourself that space every day to check 400 00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:59.400 in with yourself and whether it's you know again, I 401 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.200