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Speaker 1: Kabla Talk fifteen eighty. You know, I think you when

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we think about negotiating a lot of times we think

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about hostage situations or life and death situations.

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Speaker 2: Like this, good danco.

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Speaker 1: But thinking about and thinking about today's conversation we're about

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to have, I realize, based on her work, that every

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just about every minute of our life is a negotiation.

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Welcoming into the space a globally recognized negotiation expert, she's

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a twelve time award winning faculty member at the Wharton School,

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highly sought after speaker, and the author of a book

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called Bring Yourself, How to Harness the Power of Connection

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to Negotiate Fearlessly. Mariy to her poor, thank you for

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joining us this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me very excited to have this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I I think when we think negotiator,

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we either think, you know, you're you're doing Michael Jackson's

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contract with a big record label, or you're talking to

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a hostage you know, a hostage holder trying to get

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someone out right. But you point out that negotiating is

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not just it's not just life and death.

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Speaker 3: It's not just life in death, that it's actually something

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that we do every single day, whether you have a toddler,

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you have pets, whether it's with a loved one, family members,

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lots of women who are entrepreneurs, they do it with

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their landlords and their clients and their vendors, driving in

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traffic negotiations. Literally, it's like it's I always.

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Speaker 2: Say, it's the soundtrack of our lives, and we do

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it constantly.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny too, because when you said toddler, the

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memories came flitting back in. That's how you do all

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day long, if you have a top or is negotiate.

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I've always considered myself to be terrible at it, you know,

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I don't drive a hard bargain. But it's it's interesting

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when you say, because the stereotype I guess on the

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TV shows, you know, you see a guy with some

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kind of ear piece who is very you know, very

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cop like and methodical and logical and highly trained and

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unemotional sort of negotiating, and I think that you're trying

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to tell us that that ain't it.

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Speaker 3: It's not it, And it's unfortunate because I don't know

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of any human that has better negotiation skills than a

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mom actually who has a toddler. You are because you're

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doing it all the time. You have all this practice.

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But the way that society frames it, you know what

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I mean. I mean literally, you're like in practice all day.

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But the way society frames it for us, what we

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see in the news or the movies, really is so

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disempowering because we do see just this one model who

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is brash and in your face, and there's like this

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wind lose proposition that feels like a war, a Game

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of Thrones kind of Outlook.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, but what you're talking about is a

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more a model based more in relationships, human connectivity, the

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human spirit, or the human tendency of connection or not connection.

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Is that fair?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely? Because if you think that there's only one model

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of negotiations, then we all think, well, I can't be

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good at that because I'm not like that guy on TV,

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or I'm not like that hospice negotiator. Where's the reality is,

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there's no one type of model negotiator.

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Speaker 2: Everybody can be a great negotiator.

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Speaker 3: You have all this experience every single day you're negotiating,

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and if we really understood that, we would realize that

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one it is based on human connections because it is

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just that, and that anybody can be a great negotiator.

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We have practice, we should feel empowered, and we have experience.

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So I think just just believing that alone makes us

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feel more confident that there's no rulebook, that there's no cookbook.

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It's really just bringing your experiences and your values into

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conversation and honoring those things.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and just I want to take this moment

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to point out that you have a you have a

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crazy roster of clients. Fortune one hundred companies, major sports leagues,

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big charitable institutions, government agencies. It goes on and on.

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So it's not like you're sitting somewhere, you know, on

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a small island about how we could have this new

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way of negotiating. I mean, you're putting this into action

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in you know, in the middle of the rat race,

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so to speak. Right.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And because I have so many different perspectives and

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you know, thousands of students and experiences, and I've seen

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all kinds of different approaches to negotiations that are quite successful.

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What I've realized is that it's not again a certain

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model or a certain type of person or certain characteristics.

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The best negotiators are those negotiators for authentic who really

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sort of align with their values, know exactly who they are,

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understand their own value, and walk into the negotiations really

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driven by those things, empowered by their own experience and

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their own set up beliefs.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it does make sense because if it's value based,

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I'm going to be less likely to back down. But

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I mean doesn't mean I would necessarily be in, you know,

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being more combative. It just means that I'm going to

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stand all my values. I'm going to stand on my principles,

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regardless of the outcome.

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: And you know what this is like. When we don't

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abide by our values, when we don't.

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Speaker 2: Honor our convictions, it doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Matter what the outcome is. We feel like we've lost

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every time because we've given into something that rather than

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rather than honoring what's really really important to us, we've

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compromised on that very thing, and that that can never

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feel good, that can never feel like you've done well

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and the outcome is what you have sought.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting, even just having this conversation right

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now and hearing you speak on it, I think of

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times when just being you know, myself, has de escalated

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a situation within the family or within my workplace that

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I wasn't trying to get anything. I just wanted everyone to,

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you know, be cool and be happy and stop tripping.

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And so I wouldn't necessarily think of that as a negotiation.

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Would you say that.

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Speaker 3: It is one hundred percent? Because even what you were

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doing is like mediating.

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Speaker 2: Basically, which is also negotiations.

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Speaker 3: But hearing one another. You know, listening and negotiations is

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completely underrated, but really truly listening to people you know,

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understanding them, and hearing with your I always say, it's

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not just with your ears, but really with your heart,

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your eyes, your mind, an your ears. It's the entirety

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of the experience when we finally see people, when we

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respect them, and that allows us to not only better

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understand them and their wives, but also to be able

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to communicate in a way that they can hear us.

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Speaker 2: Too, because it's not just about you, right.

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Speaker 3: This is the classic nor audience kind of you know framework,

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which is you have to communicate things in a way

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that they will hear you, and you bringing in your

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own experience into those situations. One you're standing on what

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you know to be your strength, which is your principles,

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but also communicating in a way that people can actually

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hear you because you know who they are. You're curious

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about them, You're curious about how they're hearing you, how

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they're receiving you. It is I hate to say, it's

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just that simple. And it's not that it's simple, because

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we all need better listening skills. We all need to

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know how to be better present and more mindful. But

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in the sense of there's no tactics, there's no script,

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it's you being authentic.

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Speaker 1: Maury's Harraport is our guest. The book is Bring Yourself

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How to Negotiate Fearlessly. Lord knows we could all use

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some lessons on that. We'll continue the conversation when we

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come forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Yes, you're waking

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up with me, and you're waking up with one of

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the world's most recognized negotiation experts. She's a faculty member

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at the Wharton School and award winning one at that

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and the book Bring Yourself, How to Negotiate Fearlessly may

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apply to more than you think, and not just business,

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but also your own life, your career, your path forward.

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I'm you know I was listening to what you're saying

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about bringing your whole self and hearing with your heart

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and not just it's not just about winning or having

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some formula, but about really listening and showing up and

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being present. It's it feels like nationally, internationally, where we

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are in a ruthless era, right, That's how it feels

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very cutthroat, very intense. There's a lot of consolidation, there's

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a lot of sort of at all costs pursuit of

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wealth and such. It doesn't feel like bringing your heart

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and bringing your authentic self, would it might It feels

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like maybe bringing a knife to a gunfight.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you're absolutely right about the environment we're

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living in. Ruthless is actually the perfect word for it.

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But it's because we are living in an environment where

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people really don't see one another, they don't hear one another.

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We're not connected, we're divided. I think oftentimes what makes

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you unique is actually your strength. And so if you

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are negotiating with somebody who comes in truly believing like

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this is going to be war, and yet you are trying.

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Speaker 2: To build a connection with them that you are.

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Speaker 3: Actually hearing none, You're you have empathy for them you're listening.

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These are such unique traits that you know, people do stop.

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I mean, it sort of stops people in their tracks.

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And I always talk about the fact that before there's

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actually the deal making, the negotiations, there's a whole other stage.

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Speaker 2: Which is, you know, what we call information.

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Speaker 3: Sharing, which is that notion of forget what's going to

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be transacted, forget about the deal that's coming.

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Speaker 2: What about actually connecting with the person sitting in front of.

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Speaker 3: You, and whether it's small talk about sports or you know,

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maybe something that the person is wearing, or there's pictures

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of their family in the background, but really inquiring and

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being curious in a way that tells the person you

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are actually more important than the deal that we're about

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to embark on. And that alone creates such a feeling

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of First of all, it's very very It sort of

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sets the person's head spinning because they're like, what's happening, right, Wait.

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Speaker 2: There's somebody actually interested in me more.

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Speaker 3: Than what the deal is. But this humanity that you

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bring in to the conversation really sets the stage for

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a much easier negotiations and much easier conversation. That's where

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trust is built.

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Speaker 2: That's where the humanity is brought in.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot easier to do that than to talk numbers.

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And so if you actually give it some breadth and

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depth before you jump into transaction, there's something to build

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on and people remember you.

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Speaker 2: People enjoy doing business with you, People will.

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Speaker 3: Want to come back to you. You know, I work

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with a lot of entrepreneurs dominique, and I always say,

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you know, people don't choose businesses, they choose people. And

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it's that memory, you know what I mean, That memory

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that you leave with somebody that becomes your value proposition.

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And this is true in relationships, this is true in business,

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this is true in services that you seek, vendors that

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you work with. We always want to go back to

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the person that we actually enjoyed working with. And I

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think that's the It seems so rational, right, and yet

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it's not. We don't often believe that to be true

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in the negotiations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense. You have one one of my

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favorite quotes on your Instagram, which is my Angelo. We

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may encounter many defeats, but we may not. We must

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not be defeated. I tell myself that all the time.

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But the other thing she said is people remember how

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you make them feel right, not what you said, but

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how write right exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: And that's actually one of my favorites from her because

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it's true. Like again, working with small business owners or entrepreneurs,

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I tell me, you know, don't worry about spending all

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that money on websites and this and that, it's really

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about the feeling that you leave with a customer that

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allows them to come back to you. That's that's the value.

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And it's again going back to just even in our

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daily relationships, it's the people that listen to us. It's

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the people that hear us and understand us and invest

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in us as humans that we feel the most comfortable with,

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that we trust the most, that even when things get hard,

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that you're going back to that person because because.

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Speaker 2: There is a sense of connection and investment in the

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humanity of it. And that's you know, and again.

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Speaker 3: You being your authentic self makes you more empowered to

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do so it's not you're not performing, you're not memorizing lines,

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you're just presence, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And I think what's key about that is a lot

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of time, at least for me, a lot of times

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when people are trying to convince you of something or

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negotiate with you, and they do that human connection thing

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in a phony way. It can have just the opposite,

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you know, affact, Hey.

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Speaker 3: How about those fakers?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 3: Right? Right? Yeah, and it is it's like buying a

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youth car, right, It's like you know, I got something

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for you here. No, it's but you know that it's

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we know when somebody is being disingenuous because they haven't

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actually either either they're not paying attention to us, so

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they're not even hearing what you're saying, or they're distracted

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by their cell phone or text, or they haven't done

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their home their homework, right, don't talk to me about

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something that I don't even care about, or did you

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even hear what I just said to you? Did you

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even listen to my answer? Because we shut off when

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we know people don't care, and we know in authenticity

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when we see it, we're not stupid. So but that's

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why I'm saying. The work isn't actually being present, so

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you're actually hearing somebody, but it's also doing the homework

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to know.

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Speaker 2: How to connect with this person and really build on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you say it's you say it's sometimes

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it's not about I mean, I'm looking at your Instagram

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and you say that sometimes it's not about just winning.

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You know, we think we think about these things in

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zero some What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: First of all, I never use the words winning or

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losing because they mean different things to different people. And

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you know it's true because my winning may be different

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than somebody else is winning, right my if you're if

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you are somebody that values relationships, and and it's a

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quote quote people, please, your version of winning means both

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sides are happy. To somebody that is more competitive, that

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may not be their definition of winning.

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Speaker 3: So winning means different things. But the other part of

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this is the negotiations that the more difficult and yet

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most enjoyable to me. Part of the negotiations is when

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we do this dance that allows us to find places

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where we can compromise, where I'm not giving up the

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most important thing that for me, and you're not giving

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up the most important thing to you. But yet we

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find places where we can compromise and give in a

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way that doesn't feel like, you know, a burden to us,

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and yet feels like, well, you know what, if this

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is what means means the most to you, then great,

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here you go.

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Speaker 2: This is what I'm looking for.

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Speaker 3: Can we find a way that we can problem solve

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to make this possible for both of us and negotiations

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at the end of the day. To me is really

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this notion of problem solving, not not win lose, but

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finding a.

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Speaker 2: Place where we can create these sort of opportunities.

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Speaker 3: That are win win. And that's again that's not easy.

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It requires commitment, requires time, it requires understanding, but it

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also allows again going back to that my end. Look, well,

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it gives you this this feeling of I really enjoyed

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doing this with us person. They weren't trying to crush me.

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We were trying to find a way to actually not

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only continue this conversation, but find ways that are beneficial

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for both of us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Also I'm reading something here that

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I found quite compelling, which is that when leaders learn

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to take the signals from their nervous systems and from

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their you know, non logical signals coming from their body

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as information rather than interference, they will be a lot

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more successful. It sounds very fairy, but also like really smart.

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Speaker 3: It is. It's like, you know, sometimes when I'm teaching,

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I go, I do a lot around manifestation and mindset,

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and I'm like, before we go there, I know this

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may sound very like non Wharton like, but I'm not

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here to talk to you from sort of non human terms.

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I'm here to connect all of these things together. Because

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we are human. We have emotions, we have feelings, we

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we have a nervous system, we have you know, we

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have energy that we carry with us. We have energy

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that we we accept from other people, whether for the

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good or for the bad. Right and when we are

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let's say, let's say, when we get better sleep, when

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we are less stressed, when we have a clearer mind,

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we can make better decisions. When we are burdened, when

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we are stressed, when we are actually not well physically,

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those are the things that actually don't.

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Speaker 2: Allow us to make better decisions.

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Speaker 3: We're tired, we're burned out, we're overwhelmed, and so our

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minds and bodies really sort of sit together when it comes.

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Speaker 2: To negotiations and decision making.

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Speaker 3: You can't separate the two. And that's why for everybody

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out there who's experiencing burnout, who is feeling incredibly stressed

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and fearsome, these days because there's so much going on

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around us. Understanding that where you create boundaries, where you

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bring clarity for yourself, where.

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Speaker 2: You take those mental and physical breaks, it's really really

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important because.

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Speaker 3: Not only is it good for you physically, but it's

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also great for you emotionally and spiritually and makes you

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a better leader, makes you a better partner, makes you

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a better parent, makes you a better decision maker.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely more to Hairport is our guests. Bring Yourself How

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to Negotiate Fearlessly continues after News, Traffic and sports only here.

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She's been on Forbes, Inc, Magazine, LinkedIn, Top Voices, Marketplace, Money,

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The Next Chapter, ESPN, and and many more. And she

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is on faculty Wharton. She also has a book that

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we all need to read called Bring Yourself, How to

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Negotiate Fearlessly. And when you were talking about this zero

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sumthing that we get into, you know, sort of the

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predatory negotiator, stomp them out, leave no doubt, win or

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takes all kind of mentality, I was thinking about our relationships,

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our personal relationships love parent, child, even parent teacher or

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I mean child teacher relationships. And if we I think

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it sounds like if we took more of the approach

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that you're you're describing, we would have happier personal relationships,

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not just business relationships.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, honestly, if you think about zero

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some relationship, if you win the deal and lose the relationship,

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you didn't win, And you know what I mean, and

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the person we always think about even in arguments and

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what have you, like, I have to be right, but

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what does that really mean in a course of a

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long term relationship. And honestly, if we could just rethink

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about these things, complex will be reduced. If you start

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thinking about this as more of a collaboration, then you know,

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I have to be right. Well, if you just sit

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back and think, well, what is me being right every time?

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Actually do the to the person that's sitting across from me,

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due to my spouse, or to a friend or a

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family member. That does not That is not foundation for

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long term relationships. That instead is setting up setting the

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grounds for long term resentment. You know, we wonder why

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people get divorces. It's because these conversations aren't had in

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a way that says, let me really hear you, I

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want you to hear me. Let's figure out where we're

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missing one another. That takes empathy and understanding, not how

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am I going to beat you? How am I going

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to be right? And by the way, if we think

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we're right every time, we're actually wrong, because there's no

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way you know that you can know everything. It's if

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you walk through this earth thinking you know everything, is

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opposed to walking through this earth with curiosity and empathy,

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that that leads to a very unfulfilled and unhappy life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of my favorite yng levan Zant quotes.

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She says, would you rather be right or would you

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rather be happy?

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Speaker 3: Exactly?

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Speaker 2: Exactly?

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Speaker 3: It's absolutely true.

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Speaker 1: And I have to remind myself. What about negotiating with ourselves?

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I think the capacity for self deception is so high?

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, because oh, there's so many things to us right,

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I always say, the hardest negotiations that I have are

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often with myself. Yeah, giving ourselves compassion, listening to our bodies,

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understanding our own value, dignifying ourselves with time attention, knowing

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what we want and why we deserve it. I mean,

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those two things are really so hard for people to

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wrap their heads around because we don't really spend time

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in introspection and really understanding ourselves. We don't carve out

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that space. It's funny because COVID everybody was in their

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heads right we weren't going anywhere we were And people

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are like, oh my god, I didn't know this about myself.

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You know, well you didn't because it was always go, go, go,

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and even give yourself that space every day to check

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in with yourself and whether it's you know again, I

401
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work with a lot of entrepreneurs. I myself on this category.

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You know, I wouldn't make time for illnesses like I

403
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don't have time for that right now. Well, your body

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is saying no, you will make time. And if you

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don't listen, I'm gonna scream. And when that happens, you

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bring down. I mean, there's so little of you left.

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And so if we just actually spent the time checking

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in with ourselves every day, where are you? Are you happy?

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Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? How

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do you feel? You know again, connecting that mind heart,

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a connection that you really allowed you to feed you

412
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more information? You know, that is so important. That's the

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negotiations in and of itself. Making the space to do

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that is as important as anything else in your life.

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Speaker 1: So what is that work that we have to do.

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I mean, whether we're negotiating with especially negotiating with ourselves,

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but negotiating anywhere, what is the work we have to

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do on ourselves to be read? I need to show

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up and be present and listen and you know, be

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compassionate and empathetic.

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Speaker 3: That's a few things I think that again, you can't

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do any of that if you're distracted. In these days

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that distractions come from everywhere. Right, I've reduced my I'm

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on a news diet. I always say. I live in DC,

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so news is unavoidable, but it gives me so much

426
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physical and mental and spiritual stress that I just shut

427
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it off and I spend that time doing things that

428
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I really enjoy, whether it's just going outside for a

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quick walk because I'm feeling very stressed, or turning on

430
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music which is very sort of even spiritually like redeeming

431
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for me. You know, I'd rather be in that space

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where I'm happy and lifted as opposed to drowned out

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in news that is that feels like it's disintegrating my soul.

434
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You know that it really is pulling me in all

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different places. That is bring me no joy, So creating

436
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that space where whether it's five minutes, it's ten minutes,

437
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it's a half an hour. Really those breaks that you

438
00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:12,480
take that cuts off everything else and allows you to

439
00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:15,119
stay in a place where you're hearing yourself and you're

440
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,400
connecting with yourself and you feel it a place of peace,

441
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,480
really really important. And these days, I understand even five

442
00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:25,200
minutes may feel like a lot sometimes when you're ripping

443
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:25,920
and roaring.

444
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Speaker 2: In twenty thousand directions, but it's so necessary.

445
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Speaker 3: And then the other part of that is is actually

446
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spending the time in conversation with yourself, particularly if you're

447
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going into negotiations or a hard conversation and knowing what

448
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your values are. I always say those are your non negotiables.

449
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What is the last time you could really ask yourself,

450
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what is it that I really want? What is it

451
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that that's really important to me? That I can't negotiate away?

452
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Where are my boundaries? And if you don't have those

453
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conversations with yourself, it's actually not something you can you

454
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,720
can quickly, you know, go to because you don't understand

455
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,079
that you haven't had that conversation with yourself, you haven't

456
00:27:08,079 --> 00:27:12,000
even reflected on it. So how do you have a

457
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,119
hard negotiations or a hard negotiation, a conversation with someone

458
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,640
and don't even know what your stand for. You don't

459
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,599
even know what it is that you want.

460
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: To get out of this conversation.

461
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

462
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I absolutely do. I was reading the re reading

463
00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:29,960
the four Agreements, and one of the things that I

464
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,599
missed the first time was ask yourself questions like you

465
00:27:34,279 --> 00:27:37,400
don't even you don't even know your position, So how

466
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,000
are you going to listen to someone else's position? It

467
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,279
makes sense I'm in here negotiating, but I don't know

468
00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:45,160
what I want. That sounds like an exercise in futility.

469
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Speaker 3: Absolutely. And you know, even even with salary conversations, compensation conversations,

470
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you know, we're so focused on the dollar amount sometimes

471
00:27:56,079 --> 00:27:57,880
that we don't even think, well, if I got to

472
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hire a salary would I would I be happy in that? Up? Well,

473
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,759
is it other things that I want? Is it time

474
00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:06,440
off that I want? Is it do I want to

475
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,119
go back to school? And that's what I really want

476
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,279
to ask them for. But if you can't have those

477
00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:16,480
conversations again with yourself and be really clear, then you're fighting.

478
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: For something you don't not you don't even.

479
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 3: Want to fight for right and and that's that's absolutely

480
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,279
the truth of it. It feels really simple right when

481
00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:27,240
you say it out loud, but because we were like, oh,

482
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,759
that's easy, but is it really You haven't parked at

483
00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:30,119
the time.

484
00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:33,279
Speaker 1: Have you really asked yourself what it would take to

485
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,039
make you happy and in the job, in the relationship,

486
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,880
in life. And that's why I love the conversation about

487
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,839
persistence versus purpose.

488
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:51,039
Speaker 3: Right, yes, yes, And I want you to actually speak

489
00:28:51,039 --> 00:28:52,799
to that a little bit more because now that you

490
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,880
just said that, I'm going back to the four agreements. Okay,

491
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:56,839
tell me a little bit more.

492
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: Well, I'm really basing it on what you're saying, what

493
00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:01,880
you said, which is kind of like we get on

494
00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:04,440
we can get on this hamster wheel. Well, you know,

495
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,839
I know I want that, you know, not even I know.

496
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,000
It's like that's my goal, that's my goal. That's my goal.

497
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:11,079
I want to make. I want to make six figures. Right,

498
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,640
I'm going to be, you know, coach of the Year

499
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,759
or whatever it is. And we've been chasing it for

500
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:18,440
so long that we forget to check in and say, well,

501
00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:22,440
is this my purpose? Am I in alignment with is

502
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:25,359
you know, is this coming with God's blessings? Do I

503
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,079
even want this anymore? Or, as my late friend Jim

504
00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:30,839
Brown used to say, am I willing to pay the

505
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,000
cost to be the boss?

506
00:29:33,119 --> 00:29:40,039
Speaker 3: You know? Exactly exactly, And we're almost almost pre programmed,

507
00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:45,559
if you will, And we associate certain things with for example,

508
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,880
what success means, right, right, And that's why that's why

509
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,079
people get all the success of the world. They get

510
00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:55,160
the position, they get the accolades, and yet they still

511
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,480
find themselves unhappy. It's because what they were thinking they

512
00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:02,519
should be striving for wasn't, like you just said, in

513
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:06,519
alignment with their spirit. It wasn't in aligned, in alignment

514
00:30:06,599 --> 00:30:09,119
with their values. It wasn't even aligned with where they

515
00:30:09,119 --> 00:30:12,480
are in life today as opposed to where they were

516
00:30:12,519 --> 00:30:15,160
maybe like fifteen years ago when they set out on

517
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,720
this path. Right.

518
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,319
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, And we always say and we always talk about, like,

519
00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:22,960
you know, again, the four agreements, the notion of like.

520
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:23,839
Speaker 2: Don't make assumptions.

521
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,279
Speaker 3: We make a lot of assumptions about how we're supposed

522
00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:29,720
to show up in this world. But what we don't

523
00:30:29,759 --> 00:30:31,920
do is check in with ourselves and say, but is

524
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,720
that what makes you happy? Is that what you actually

525
00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:41,079
want or or have you forgotten to make that connection

526
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,839
in so long that now that you're here, you're miserable

527
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,720
and really sitting with yourself allows you to do that dominique,

528
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,440
and we just don't give ourselves that space.

529
00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:55,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know it again. It sounds airy fairy,

530
00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:57,920
but for me, just even of five, ten, fifteen minutes

531
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,279
of meditation every day, I don't know why it helps,

532
00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:04,720
but it seems to help, so I do it. Whatever

533
00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:07,480
that is. You know, for those of us who like

534
00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:10,319
to go a thousand miles an hour whatever that is,

535
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,200
to slow down, it seems to help the brain, the body,

536
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:14,599
and the.

537
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:19,839
Speaker 3: Spirit absolutely, and meditation is tough for some people. It

538
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:23,319
really is, me included, because my head is going a

539
00:31:23,319 --> 00:31:25,079
million miles on aro. And I used to think what

540
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,480
meditation meant was to don't think about anything that's impossible

541
00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:37,279
but impossible. But things like breathing, not meique, are so important,

542
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,599
just to oxygen that your brain gets and sitting there

543
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,279
and taking you know, five deep breasts like it doesn't

544
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,359
have to be a big commitment, right, it just means

545
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,079
stop your body is talking to you. Stop. You're on

546
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,240
automatic you're running on auto drive, and you don't even

547
00:31:56,279 --> 00:31:58,680
know where you're going, Like, you know, just just sit

548
00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:02,519
still for for a few minutes and breathe, breathe deeply,

549
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,400
and maybe just go instead of you don't have to

550
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,200
go on a five mile walk. You can just walk

551
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,559
around your block for a moment and be a nature

552
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:16,799
and and just give your body something else to feel

553
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,440
and see and just that change of environment sometimes is

554
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,920
what you need. But you have to be aware that

555
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,319
you need it, otherwise you just keep going.

556
00:32:25,759 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Well, more to her poor is our

557
00:32:30,319 --> 00:32:37,240
guests Bring Yourself how to Negotiate Fearlessly, The fearlessly part

558
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,440
I want to talk about a little bit more when

559
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,559
we come forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Well, I'm

560
00:32:43,599 --> 00:32:48,319
feeling a lot more confident about just whatever I have

561
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,359
to negotiate, whether it's with myself, my family, or in

562
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,319
business after this short conversation, so not that short. Thank

563
00:32:55,359 --> 00:32:57,839
you for spending the hour with us. More in terror

564
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,359
port to tell us how to follow you to obviously,

565
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,680
other than going and buying the book Bring Yourself how

566
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,920
to Negotiate Fearlessly, which I seems like a great start,

567
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,480
But how else shall we follow you?

568
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:17,279
Speaker 3: So actually, my website is probably the most resourceful place

569
00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:20,119
where you can go because it's all my blogs, all

570
00:33:20,119 --> 00:33:23,119
my newsletters are there. I've done probably over one hundred

571
00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:27,920
podcasts with different topics, so it's all there on my

572
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,319
website that's just more into Harryport dot com. But I'm

573
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:34,759
on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram, and obviously the book you

574
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:38,920
can find anywhere where you buy books. So I'm around,

575
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,119
I'm just about everywhere.

576
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: You're everywhere all at once, and yet you're present and mindful.

577
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,799
Talk to me about the fearlessly part. I think one

578
00:33:49,839 --> 00:33:54,240
of the biggest things that makes negotiation tough, especially in

579
00:33:54,279 --> 00:33:57,440
the workplace or in the marketplace, at least for me,

580
00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:01,200
is fear. Fear of going too far, fear of not

581
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,160
going far enough, fear of being embarrassed, fear of not

582
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,599
knowing what I'm doing, whatever it might be.

583
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 3: Right. So, first, I don't believe that when I say,

584
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,960
you know, I use fearlessly.

585
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,039
Speaker 2: In the sentence with negotiations, it.

586
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: Doesn't mean that you lack the anxiety or the fear

587
00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:30,960
of starting these conversations, you know. It's I acknowledge that

588
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,159
there's a lot of anxiety when people hear the word negotiations.

589
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,239
They're like, oh my god, I'm so bad at it,

590
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,440
I just don't even want to do it, or oh

591
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,800
my god, if I do it, what if they think

592
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,559
I'm greedy, particularly women.

593
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: Or you know, I don't want to ruin this relationship, or.

594
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 3: I don't like conflicts, so I don't want to negotiate.

595
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,639
The truth is, if you know there is anxiety, you know, anytime,

596
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,119
particularly if there's a transaction to be dealt with, money

597
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,480
is a very hard conversation for people to have and

598
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:03,639
sleep to negotiate around. So I think it takes reframing

599
00:35:04,639 --> 00:35:06,400
if we start thinking stop thinking.

600
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,159
Speaker 2: About negotiations again as that sort of.

601
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 3: One lose proposition that somebody's gonna walk away unhappy, and

602
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,800
instead think about it as we're just problem solving. We're

603
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,599
going to have a conversation. And you know, some conversations

604
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:21,239
are hard and some are easier, but all this is

605
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,719
is a conversation. And at the end of the day,

606
00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:27,239
if I don't engage in this conversation, the answer is

607
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,880
always know, if I don't engage in this conversation, I

608
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,280
will never get what I'm what I'm looking for. And

609
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,440
so because I'm ignoring it actually puts me in a

610
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,079
place where I will regret not having done it. You know,

611
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:43,239
we regret all the studies show us we regret the

612
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,519
things that we don't do more than the things that

613
00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:48,960
we do. And maybe it doesn't go our way. And

614
00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:53,440
so you know, asking is the first step. Yeah, and

615
00:35:53,559 --> 00:35:54,760
it's a necessary step.

616
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,679
Speaker 1: I want to circle back quickly to something you said

617
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,000
earlier in the conversation that kind of flew by, which is,

618
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:05,239
you know, your the thing that makes you uniquely you

619
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,079
can be your strength in a negotiation. And I would imagine,

620
00:36:10,159 --> 00:36:12,440
and this is a question, even if it doesn't sound

621
00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:16,039
like one, that that includes things that are generally considered

622
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:19,119
by ourselves or others to be flaws in ourselves.

623
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 3: We'll all laws and I think I think the notion

624
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:32,079
of and again this was really early in our conversation today,

625
00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:36,880
which is what is a negotiator, a skilled negotiator or

626
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,639
a successful negotiator? Look like, what are those characteristics? And

627
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,559
the truth is there isn't one model. The truth is

628
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:47,559
that we're trying to live up to this person or

629
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:50,559
trying to speak in a way or bring different attributes

630
00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:55,000
to the table that aren't ours. That it really is

631
00:36:55,039 --> 00:37:00,559
a performance, you know, and and when we are performing, we.

632
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,159
Speaker 2: Are not present because we're constantly.

633
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 3: Thinking in our heads. Was that what I was supposed

634
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,400
to say? Or how am I supposed to say this

635
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,119
other thing? Or you know, and and I know, you know,

636
00:37:09,199 --> 00:37:12,679
you walk into negotiations again. Women go through this a lot.

637
00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:14,960
What am I supposed to be wearing? Am I supposed

638
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:15,320
to smile?

639
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 2: Am I supposed to not smile?

640
00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 3: Or should I be leaning in? Should I leaning be

641
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,840
leaning back? There's this concept of mirroring that people talk

642
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,920
about negotiations, which I don't subscribe to at all. And

643
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,960
all that means is when they lean in, you lean in.

644
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,159
When they smile, you smile. That is the furthest thing

645
00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:34,239
from being authentic. This is a performance and it's exhausting.

646
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:37,039
It is exhausting, and we can't you know what I mean,

647
00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:38,320
we can't think clearly.

648
00:37:38,519 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: So I mean the reason I'm cracking up is because

649
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,559
it sounds like you're in the middle of the negotiation

650
00:37:42,639 --> 00:37:44,360
going who am I supposed to be?

651
00:37:44,519 --> 00:37:49,199
Speaker 3: Like exactly that's historically and it's like and it's like,

652
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,920
by the way, it's like you know, the Goldilock syndrome, right,

653
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,800
Like you're supposed to smile, but don't fill too much.

654
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,480
You're supposed to sort of lean into a conversation. Don't

655
00:37:58,519 --> 00:38:00,840
lean in too hard because they made and you're aggressive,

656
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,679
and it's it's it's a full choice. So I always say,

657
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,039
the easiest person for you to be is yourself, the

658
00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:13,800
one that requires the least amount of memorization and performance.

659
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,199
Is you being yourself? Now, do you want to show

660
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,599
up and be successful in negotiations? Yes, And of course

661
00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:26,840
that requires things like preparation. That requires you being fully

662
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,679
present and not distracted. That requires you putting your phone

663
00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:34,159
away so your mind doesn't go somewhere else. That requires

664
00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:38,360
you to be curious, That requires you to ask questions.

665
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,840
So all those things are true, but none of those

666
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:46,159
things are performance. And you know the risk of authenticity

667
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,199
is vulnerability, and if that's the biggest risk that you're taking,

668
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,000
well great, because what that means is that you're actually

669
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,960
connected to the person, and you're connected, you're better connected

670
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,400
with yourself, and I think that's really important.

671
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,199
Speaker 4: It will leave you feeling a lot more empowered and

672
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,440
I'm a lot more fulfilled when you know that you

673
00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:13,719
are presenting as.

674
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:17,039
Speaker 3: Yourself as opposed to pretending to be somebody that you're

675
00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:19,360
not and then at the end not doing well anyway,

676
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:23,400
and that just you feel like a deer in headlights.

677
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,320
And that's that's not a great feeling.

678
00:39:25,519 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, if I when I'm hearing you say that,

679
00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:31,880
we are just diluting ourselves because we're vulnerable even when

680
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,119
we're being phony, we just you know, have we we

681
00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:38,960
have protected ourselves. But you still didn't get the job,

682
00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:42,119
the raise, the whatever, So you were still vulnerable. You

683
00:39:42,159 --> 00:39:45,480
were just vulnerable while wearing a mask, if that makes

684
00:39:45,519 --> 00:39:50,199
any sense exactly. Mary's Harbor to hare Port. Thank you

685
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,639
so much for spending the hour with us. This has

686
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:56,360
been a very inspiring conversation. I can't wait to read more.

687
00:39:58,039 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

688
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: This has been a great conversation and I appreciate you, and.

689
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate you as well. For women, we it's time

690
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,480
for us to come up out of those those parts

691
00:40:09,519 --> 00:40:12,639
of the gender expectations that hold us back. And this

692
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,840
sounds like one great step towards that. Speaking of great women,

693
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:20,400
Nina Turner will be featured next hour as well. New

694
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:26,159
York Times writer Jimlboy jam Pack show Straight Ahead, don't

695
00:40:26,159 --> 00:40:28,880
forget to Tap in with Me on social media. I'm

696
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,320
at Daprima Radio like my mama. The late great Poet

697
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,280
Laureate of San Francisco, Diane da Prima, used to say,

698
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:42,440
the ultimate famine is the starvation of the imagination. Until tomorrow,

699
00:40:42,559 --> 00:40:45,599
my KBLA delegation, One Love,