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forward slash terms.

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Speaker 10: Mein even live.

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Speaker 11: Man like this man letting butterfly flapping his wing, dig

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down another forest.

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Speaker 5: Man, it gonna cause a tree fall, letting five thousand

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miles away.

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Speaker 4: Man, nobody, see nobody.

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Speaker 9: You don't need no man, you don't like you, call

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a story and you get back.

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Speaker 11: That's the way, man, don't blackly dowg on pano matter.

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Speaker 2: Man, All right, George back, Welcome to the J. Burdons Show.

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How are you doing?

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Speaker 4: I'm doing wonderful. It's great to be with you again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very glad to have you on the You

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and I have been doing sort of an informal longer

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series about you know, different populations in America, I mean honestly,

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for over a year now somewhat infrequently, but this is

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something more topical, something you wanted to bring up directly,

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and so I figured I'd just hand the floor to you.

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Speaker 12: So I wanted to talk about what's going on in

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private schools, which is the only kind of education I

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have in a direct connection with. I'm interested in diagnosing

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the problems and identifying ways forward, at least for dissident educators,

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which is mostly homeschoolers these days, though there are good

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private schools out there still.

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Speaker 4: So I.

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Speaker 12: Penciled down what I call the neo con influence in

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private education. And this is an important thing for us

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to consider because we have we have the Conservatives, and

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I think that this has been a big part of

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our discourse these days, where we've seen some unmasking of

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the Conservatives. We've seen an apocalyptic moment for the conservative

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American and we've all found ourselves asking the question, just

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what are they trying to conserve? And the answer inevitably

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is something of the establishment. They're trying to shore up

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a system that has failed a number of particular beliefs,

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mostly from the previous generation, which we should understand it was.

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It was the investment in those beliefs that caused the

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creation of a great number of Christian schools of all

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stripes of church supported schools. The classical school movement is

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very much invested here, and that is not to malign

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anyone invested there. I have friends there. I have a

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shout out to a special someone out there, part of

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a charter school, who reached out to me because he

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listens to this podcast and wanted to hire me. And

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I have nothing but but gratitude for that particular person

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and many other people in the classical schools, the charter

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schools and such. There are great many charter classical schools

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that cannot talk specifically about religious faith, but nevertheless are

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trying to do things.

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Speaker 4: But the.

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Speaker 12: Neo conservative or we might just call them all conservative investment,

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the political perspective is something that we must face. So

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one of my key influences as an educator is C. S.

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Lewis's little book The Abolition of Man, which I think

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is essential reading and it has particular importance for an educator.

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Lewis's cause for writing this book was a book.

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Speaker 4: Of literature education.

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Speaker 12: It starts out as a piece of criticism about a

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book for education. He gives the writers of the book.

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The actual authors of the text he's criticizing. He gives

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them some Roman names, and then he picks apart something

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that they are making the foundational instruction in their text.

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The story he tells is very evocative. He says that

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they quote Samuel Coleridge, the poet, and the poet looks

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at a waterfall and calls it sublime. He calls it

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incredibly beautiful and lovely. And the authors of the school

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text say Coleridge is actually talking about his own private

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feelings when he says this, that this is beautiful. Lewis says,

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this is the process of debunking, and what they are

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debunking is any sense of absolute objective value that anything

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is worthy of the attribution sublime. In effect, whenever we

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apply a value judgment to something, we're only saying something

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about our own private feelings. And Lewis says this makes

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the value attribution ultimately meaningless. Lewis says that the educators

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in this context, they have cut the soul out of

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the students long before he is old enough to understand

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the possibility of having a certain experience of actually seeing

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objective value in anything and correctly describing it. And this

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was an inspiration for me. I always took this book

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very seriously. I first encountered it as an undergraduate, and

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as a teacher, I often read it and reflected on

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what I was doing. So I started my career teaching literature,

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American history and government. Thankfully, I got ancient literature, which

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I couldn't have asked for anything more permanently valuable. I

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taught Sophocles and Homer, I taught Dante in my literature survey,

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and in the course of my career I suddenly discovered

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when that first teaching post wrapped up for me, my

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contract was not renewed after seven years of teaching the

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same classes. I had discovered in those last years that

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it wasn't just the parents who had ingested this debunking

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spirit that Lewis had talked about. It was not just

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the students who frequently came to me already believing in

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an ideological way that the debunking was the essence of

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freedom and liberty. It was even the administrators of the

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school who had internalized that kind of belief, and that

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was the kind of thing they were trying to preserve

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in their institutional work. They wanted to preserve a format,

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a perspective that essentially allowed for that, and the conflict

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I found myself in with initially students, then parents, and

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finally the administration was the point of debunking and whether

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or not we could make value attributions. So Lewis talks

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about this in his book that ultimately these value attributions,

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these are the unsentimental sentiment, as Weaver had it, and

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ideas have consequences. This is the essential faith, the dogmatic belief,

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if you will, in the permanent, enduring human value of families,

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of loyalty to friends, of partiality, to one's own homeland,

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to one's own kin, folk, of faith in God, of

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the devotion of religion, and it ultimately can only replace

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them with sophistry, which is this rationalistic argument that undermines

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the foundations of all of those values. What is Lewis's

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primary purpose in his book The Abolition of Man, where

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he's saying the undermining of all those values destroys the

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essential elements of a human being. These are the things

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that make life worth living. These are actually the foundations

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of culture itself, and all of these things, these these

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sophistical debunking process, this rationalized criticism of these things destroys

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the harmony.

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Speaker 4: Of a society.

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Speaker 12: So I discovered that this, this kind of sophistical arguments

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for argument's sake about values was not something that even

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the leaders of the school were prepared to contend about.

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In spite of the the slogan of the school where

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I first began my teaching career. They had taken me

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in as a rookie without any teaching experience. They gave

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me my chance, and I talked for them for seven years,

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and I and that that was an incredibly happy and

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productive time.

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Speaker 4: In my life.

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Speaker 12: I was able to welcome to children into my family.

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I was able to buy my first home because of that,

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and I have incredible gratitude for all of it.

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Speaker 4: It was what made me professional.

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Speaker 12: I am I am now. The slogan of that school

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was various absolute aspects, truth, beauty. Those are how they

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described them That that was how they described themselves.

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Speaker 13: There's so much rugby on Sports Extra from Sky They've

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asked me to read the whole lot at the same

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speed I usually use for the legal bit. At the end,

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here goes this Winter Sports Extra is jampack with rugby.

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For the first time we've bet. Every champion's got much

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exclusively life was actually from the URC, the Challenge Cup

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and much more. That's the USC and all the best

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European rugby all in the same place. Get more exclusively

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life tournaments than ever before. On Sports Extra jump.

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Speaker 2: Back with rugby. Phew, that is a lot of rugby.

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Speaker 13: Get Sports Extra on Sky for fifteen euar of them

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for twelve months. Search Sports Extra New Sports Extra customers only.

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Stund Press applies after twelve months for the terms apply.

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Speaker 10: For the twelve days of Christmas, Eurospa had for me

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twelve Christmas bodings, eleven cakes are baking, ten sumon smoking,

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nine Christmas.

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Speaker 6: Crackers, eight lovely Jeesus, eleven sheets of wrappings, six stocking fillers.

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Speaker 14: Five minspons for Christmas case, three Brussels rouse, two turkey

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legs under Christmas made super easy.

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Speaker 15: You'll spine You're super easy supermarket.

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Speaker 12: And it was a stunning moment when I realized that

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these things were adjustable. And this is the situation that administrators,

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any administrator anywhere, will recognize the wide path the latitude

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that must be maintained to keep your institution from being

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a esoteric concern. Something that does not have enough appeal

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to keep it operating. And this is something I did

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not understand as a teacher. You know, I was just

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devoted to my subjects and trying to explain them the

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best I could. But as an administrator, you're thinking about

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the bottom line. Necessarily, you're trying to maintain the budget,

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and you must know your audience and so on. You

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you are recruiting students, you're admitting students, you're trying to

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graduate the students. You don't want people to be alienated,

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you don't want them to be falling off. And this

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is one of the great challenges of education now because

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the great temptation of the teacher, as as it is

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for the administrator. The great temptation is the sin of flattery.

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It's that of lying to people for your own advancement.

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And every teacher will face that when they have to

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grade something. And I found myself in my last years

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of teaching, if I was giving something lower than a B,

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I needed to visit several administrators and make sure that

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I had them on my side, because invariably there would

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be a parent that would be very upset. They would

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want a meeting with the administrator and Their line of

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attack was very familiar. They would say, what are we

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paying you for? And you're giving my daughter a c

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an F. What are we paying you for? You're obviously

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doing something wrong. We've invested here, and so on. It's

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a minority that does that, but they determine an awful

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lot about how things operate, because if a teacher is

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going to give the grade on an objective level, you

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know the paper was illegible. You know, you couldn't sit

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and read it. It was so incomprehensible. It did not

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contain valuable information, It did not fulfill the basic requirements

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of the of the assignment, and so on. That's that's

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one thing. But if it's a philosophical difference, Now I'm

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giving assignments concerning objective values, most most often in literature,

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which is my subject today, the individualist, the liberal of

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the modern day. We'll say, well, the authorities of whatever circumstance,

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who were they to tell the hero how he should act?

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He is striking out, He is being a fearless individual

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with his own line of reasoning, and that is heroic.

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I will apologize for the hero, now, said said coherently.

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That wouldn't necessarily be a bad paper. But the message

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in the class was that of the objective social values

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that Lewis describes. So Lewis in his book he says,

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until quite modern times, all teachers and even all men

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believed the universe to be such that certain emotional reactions

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on our part could be either congruous or incongruous to it. Believed,

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in fact, that objects did not merely receive, but could

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merit our approval or disapproval, our reverence or our contempt.

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The idea is restated in Aristotle that the aim of

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education is to make the pupil like and dislike what

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he ought, that this is not something that's finally up

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to them. And this could not have been better matched

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with my own literature material. I was teaching Oedipus, rex,

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I was teaching some Hesiod, I was teaching Homer's Iliad,

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and finally, the last great poem in the class was

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Dante's Inferno. All of them concern these absolute values, the

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transgression of which leads to eternal ultimately eternal punishment, something

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implied even in the Greek pagan texts. So it was

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extremely appropriate for the subject matter, and it was the

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overarching theme of the class. That is where I fell

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into trouble. I was teaching the Ordo Amorus, which Lewis

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also mentions something that needs to be on the forefront

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of our our thought on these things, and ultimately of

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incredible political importance, the properly ordered social loves and regards.

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That we prefer our own family, that we prefer the

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people we share with our friends, the people that we

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are in community with, we prefer them to the outsider,

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to the dissenter, to the foreigner, to those outside of

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our own communities, And that this is the fundamental order

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of society. To have these properly ordered loves is of

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incredible significance, and that in fact the ordo amoris, according

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to Saint Augustine, according to Aristotle, according to Plato, according

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to Thomas Aquinas, the these are the basic elements of

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education itself. This is what education is for, to teach

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us what is good, what is bad, to teach us

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what our duties are, To teach us where our loyalties

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must lie, which ensures the future of any community. Communities

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all have limited resources. They must allocate those resources properly

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based on the proper sentiments, and if they do not

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do so they will be pillaged, they will be destroyed,

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they will not form families, they will not provide for

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their children, they will not stand by for their friends,

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and so on. So this is such a fundamental thing,

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and it struck me long before I was a teacher.

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It struck me as so profound and so needful.

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Speaker 4: It was a root of my classes.

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Speaker 12: I was very I was very devoted to this. I

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took Homer's Iliad as an example. In book nine of

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Homer's Iliad, Achilles is confronted with a procession of emissaries.

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Achilles has separated himself from the fighting. He claims he

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does not care if his companions live or die in

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the siege in front of Troy. He is offended by Agamemnon.

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Agamemnon has publicly embarrassed him and humiliated him, and he

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is he's staying in his tent and sulking, cultivating his

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anger against the slight, against this public dishonor. And his

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friends come to him. They're sent by Agamemnon. Agamemnon admits

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that he was wrong. He pledges to restore everything to Achilles,

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and more. He wants to make amends. Promises Achilles the

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authority over cities. He promises Achilles gold bars, racing horses.

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He promises Achilles cauldrons and tripods, an unusual gift in

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our conception, why would you want giant barbecue sets? But

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the reason being that the ability to entertain large groups

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is something that consolidates political and social status. It gives

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you authority. If you can feed large numbers of people,

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then you have increased clout. He promises Achilles, even his

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own daughter, making him an air. There really isn't anything

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else conceivable that Agamemnon could promise to Achilles to make amends,

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and yet Achilles refuses to be reconciled. Now, the responses

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to the are very interesting. We see a long series

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of speeches in book nine of the Iliad, and this

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was an occasion for me for a major essay assignment.

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I had my students for many years they would write

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an essay in response to this, And the whole point

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of the essay was the ordo amoris, the properly ordered

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loyalties sentiments. The response from Odysseus is the most important

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of all of them. Odysseus is the first one to

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speechify to Achilles. Achilles. He says Achilles. Agamemnon wants to

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make amends. Human beings offend one another, but we have

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to keep living. We must make amends with one another.

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We make amends for any wrong that could possibly be,

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for greater wrongs than we're done to you, he says.

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Agamemnon has offered you all of these things, but consider

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the other motives. You have to comply your father himself.

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He told you to guard your anger, to not let

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anger consume you. You were told you were given this,

317
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this role. You are a soldier. You must care what

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happens to your friends, what happens to your comrades, what

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happens to your whole community. You must care about whether

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they live or die.

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Speaker 16: The body is that of a thirty five year old.

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Significantly sheans to the face, particularly the right temple, correlating

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to the intracranial hemorrhaging observed, seatbelt aebrations clear across chest

324
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and abdomen broken and tibor right leg. Blood alcohol is

325
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over at the legal limit. Cause of death drink driving,

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drink and drive, and it could be you. On the

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mortuary slab. A message from the Road Safety Authority visit

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orsa dot.

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Speaker 6: IE at Central We've got amazing Senta saviors from now

330
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until the Big Man arrives, like Coca Cola zero and

331
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Dico twelve Compact six year each pus deposit selected O'donnald's

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christ Sharing bags two. You're a weech and oyster based

333
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souvenam blanc ten year. Oh stuck up at CenTra this

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Christmas CenTra, live every day, enjoyl call sensibly.

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Speaker 12: That is that is part of your essentral duty as

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a soldier. You cannot be in it only for yourself.

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And he tells Achilles that he has got a responsibility

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for his community, for his friends, and then he has

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a responsibility to his father, who ordered him and who

340
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has proper authority over him. So he makes this a

341
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very very good appeal. Then we have at the at

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the tail end, we have Ajax, the warrior who makes

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the final speech, and it's the shortest of the speeches

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to Achilles. Ajax says, Achilles has a heart of stone.

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It is not like a human heart. He does not

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care for his friends. He is like is like vegetable matter.

347
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He does not have warmth in his heart, a very

348
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important theme in Homer to have warmth in your heart

349
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towards the right ends. This is a powerful symbol in

350
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Homer for that correct sentiment, that proper orientation of loves.

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And Ajax says to Achilles, he says, a man will

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reconcile even for his murdered brother. And yet Achilles says,

353
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he cares about nothing but for his own regard. And

354
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I would give that to them and send them out

355
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to write a paper. And the goal is to recognize

356
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this order of values. Achilles eventually rejoins the battle, but

357
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not for the reasons you might think. He does not

358
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reconcile with Agamemnon.

359
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Speaker 4: Initially.

360
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Speaker 12: It's only when his friend Patrickleus, a soldier who cares

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for his friends, who cares whether they live or die,

362
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he goes and fights an achilles armor, and he is killed.

363
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What is more natural than a soldier going into battle

364
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than dying. But Achilles will not be reconciled to that.

365
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He goes and has his vengeance on Hector, who had

366
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killed Patricklus, and only reconciles with his community after that point.

367
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Speaker 4: Are several things there. Yes, indeed, I.

368
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Speaker 2: Think it's interesting. You may remember, I guess this would

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have been almost a year ago now, when suddenly you

370
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know everyone on the political left was very concerned about

371
00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:18,680
this idea of Ordo a Morris because J. D. Dance

372
00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:23,359
mentioned it in the speech. And what's interesting to me

373
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is that there are certain things that we as as moderns,

374
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and I certainly include the sort of conservatives we're talking about,

375
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are very comfortable with. And so, for instance, in the

376
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example of Achilles, what it's like, Oh, well, there's a

377
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,519
very comfortable narrative, which is partially true. It is an

378
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aspect of what's going on, which talks about the rage,

379
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the arrogance of Achilles. But the element that you were

380
00:30:54,839 --> 00:31:00,519
talking about, the incorrect privileging, putting your own above or

381
00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:04,559
putting your own honor from a certain perspective above your

382
00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:08,480
your fulial piety, your duty to those around you. It's

383
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:14,039
a much more uncomfortable. That's a more uncomfortable thing for that,

384
00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:17,160
for that sort of system of values to poke it.

385
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:22,160
And I think it's interesting. This is maybe slightly less

386
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,799
relevant to Homer directly, but it's something that you mentioned

387
00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:34,559
it before, which is to what extent is Western civilization valuable? Well,

388
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:39,640
is it valuable as sort of addressing right as part

389
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,160
of the process of finishing you know, your son or

390
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,759
daughter into you know, a member of the upper middle

391
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:49,519
class or is it does it have intrinsic worth? Do

392
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,880
you owe something to your civilization? And I think that

393
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,160
that dissonance, that gap between stated and revealed preference is

394
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,319
very important, right, Like, why are we going through you know, this,

395
00:32:04,319 --> 00:32:06,920
this sort of ritual of learning, Homer? Are we doing

396
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,599
it because it's something that you can bring up in

397
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,920
a college application essay and and you know, wow, the recruiter.

398
00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:16,759
I mean, obviously it probably wouldn't work now, but hypothetically,

399
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,440
you know, or is it learning about something that is important?

400
00:32:21,599 --> 00:32:24,240
Right that the building blocks of the civilization which birthed

401
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:29,839
you something that is inherently better than other things is

402
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,519
preferable to them.

403
00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:32,119
Speaker 4: I don't know.

404
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: I kind of threw a bunch at you there back

405
00:32:34,039 --> 00:32:36,160
The idea interrupted the stream of thought, But I realized

406
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,440
there are multiple things that I wanted to say earlier

407
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,759
and I hadn't gotten to Yes.

408
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 12: Absolutely, and this was the This the impetus for one

409
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,079
of the very first questions on my midterm review, when

410
00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:55,039
I was going over big questions that I want them

411
00:32:55,079 --> 00:32:57,240
to consider because I'm trying to set them up for

412
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:01,759
essay questions on the midterm, I asked them at the

413
00:33:01,799 --> 00:33:05,559
first part of the review. It was a reference to

414
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,440
my initial introductory lecture in the class. I said, when

415
00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:19,079
someone describes something beautiful, are they talking about something real

416
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,359
that you can see, that you can appreciate, or are

417
00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:28,000
they only talking about their own private feelings? That was

418
00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:34,240
my question, and this is ultimately the reason why we

419
00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:39,240
would teach Homer, because Homer is talking about things of

420
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:47,759
eternal quality, and most certainly things directly concerning Westerners. What

421
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,240
is a Westerner? What sets them apart? What things do

422
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:55,640
they believe? What have they cultivated for thousands of years?

423
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:01,279
And Homer is a wonderful introduction to these things, discussing,

424
00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:04,839
you know, Bronze Age warriors in the rest, it nevertheless

425
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:10,360
isolates those things, and we see that with the Odyssey.

426
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:16,400
One of my favorite examples from Homer. Odysseus is tempted

427
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,440
by Circe, the goddess who loves him. She is eternally young,

428
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,480
and she offers him the greatest, the greatest bribe ever

429
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,800
encountered in literature. She offers him immortality and eternal youth

430
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:34,239
if he is to stay with her. And what does

431
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:40,199
he do? He embraces his own mortality, which is also

432
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,480
what Achilles does by the way, he knows he will die.

433
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,079
He knows that the best part of his life is

434
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:51,440
already passed. His own foot vitality is fading. He is

435
00:34:51,519 --> 00:34:56,039
now older, he is now, you know, around fifty or something.

436
00:34:56,519 --> 00:35:00,320
He wants to go home. He wants to see his

437
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,159
own aged father, he wants to raise his son, he

438
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,480
wants to see his wife. He wants to restore his

439
00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:12,280
authority in his estate. And he turns down Circe, the

440
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:19,719
goddess who offers him limitless pleasure, because he wants his home,

441
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,519
because that offers him the greatest satisfaction, to deliver his

442
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:29,159
home from those that would despoil it, to save his

443
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,360
son from those that want to kill him. And he

444
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,960
has no assurance of success in that quest. He does succeed,

445
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,679
and that's why the Odyssey is so inspiring, and the

446
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,559
gods are intervening on his side because his cause is just.

447
00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:54,599
But this is the ultimate question, these great values. I

448
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:58,920
love that particular example of Odysseus in the Odyssey, but

449
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,119
the ultimate question is those enduring qualities. And this was

450
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:09,760
what first got me into serious trouble. That essay, or

451
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,400
that exam review question to set them up for that

452
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:20,760
essay question. My students are mostly like anyone in any time.

453
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,559
They're a product of their time. They are liberals, as

454
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:30,840
are the administrators. They believe that there's a bunch of

455
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,679
different ideas out there and it is the province of

456
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:38,280
the individual to choose among them, to hear them in discussion,

457
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,800
and also not to be told which one is right,

458
00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:52,320
which one is just so theoretically, they'll entertain the debate

459
00:36:53,039 --> 00:36:57,119
between the atheist and the theist. They'll entertain the debate

460
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:03,840
between the materialist and the the orthodox believer who says

461
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,639
there is a spiritual realm, there are eternal values. They'll

462
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:13,480
entertain the debate between the communists and the liberal and

463
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,760
they think, oh, well, this is all free and we're

464
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,559
going to let the best one win. But they do

465
00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:26,519
this for children, and there's a certain level where we

466
00:37:26,599 --> 00:37:32,559
must encounter unfamiliar ideas and entertain thoughts and the rest

467
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,599
we see even at the college level, this is something

468
00:37:36,679 --> 00:37:46,039
that is still very powerful because the the established course

469
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:55,280
is so very powerful. We conform to the authority, and

470
00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:58,880
it's it's very rare to encounter someone that doesn't.

471
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 4: This is why it.

472
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 12: Matters where we invest with education. But even in the

473
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:17,599
Christian high school, there is this strong conviction that no

474
00:38:17,639 --> 00:38:22,360
one should tell them what to believe, even when it

475
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,719
comes to things like the authority of the parents, the

476
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:36,000
adherence to the faith of their Christian Church, loyalty to

477
00:38:36,039 --> 00:38:40,320
their homeland, and so on. The idea is more like

478
00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:46,719
John Stuart Mills, very subversive, the idea that everyone should

479
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,800
be a totally free actor with nothing to compel his allegiance.

480
00:38:52,559 --> 00:38:56,679
And when I gave that question one year, one particular year,

481
00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:00,280
I remember so well because it led to a kind

482
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,280
of scandal. I still had years of teaching ahead of me,

483
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,599
but I gave that question to the class, and in

484
00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:16,840
the examiner of you, things went out of control. I

485
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:24,960
had a student question me initially saying, well, you say,

486
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:31,000
a statement of value is a recognition of some objective fact,

487
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,360
at least potentially, and not a reference to one's own

488
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:36,800
preferences or feelings.

489
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,599
Speaker 7: The Black Tag event is now on. It curries get

490
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:44,000
the Sony PlayStation five Digital Edition now only three four

491
00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:47,400
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492
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,440
euro and the Ninja Creamy Deluxe ice Cream and frozen

493
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Dessert maker now two hundred and forty euro curries for

494
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,960
the tech you love at prices you Lodore.

495
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:04,039
Speaker 11: This is the sound of a we all have sending

496
00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:07,119
Christmas cards to our family and friends and making them

497
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:10,840
feel loved. Who will you send magic to your auntie,

498
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,559
your brother, your bestie living abroad? You can buy Christmas

499
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:18,440
stamp booklets in your local post office or online with

500
00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:22,920
free next day delivery. Ah, send Christmas Love from the

501
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,519
heart today on post Send Love.

502
00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:35,079
Speaker 12: What if I prefer something else? And I asked for

503
00:40:35,159 --> 00:40:38,960
the context. Now, this is the same class where I

504
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,880
was teaching Dante, and of course in Dante we're talking

505
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,599
about sexual morality, and that was something that comes up

506
00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:52,079
in the class. She said, well, I have friends that

507
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,320
like to sleep around and they use contraception.

508
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 4: In high school. What do you think of that?

509
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 12: And I said, well, that seems to be a bad

510
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:10,119
course of life. Because we we have sexual relations with people,

511
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,679
were connected with that individual for the rest of our lives,

512
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:19,239
whether or not we want it, which is one of

513
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,559
the reasons why we don't even have to have sex.

514
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,440
We will feel connection to those we've united with emotionally,

515
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:34,320
those we've imagined ourselves with. In some respect. So I

516
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:39,599
was talking in those terms, and I got a very

517
00:41:41,159 --> 00:41:47,920
spirited response from several It was a minority. Most of

518
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,239
the students did not relate to what was being said,

519
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,280
but it was a minority of students that were so

520
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,760
inspirited by this something that we had talked about. By

521
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,840
the way, we were talking about the circle of lust

522
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:05,599
in Dante, for instance, where we see these these tormented

523
00:42:05,639 --> 00:42:14,239
lovers united together in a kind of punishment. They're weeping,

524
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:23,519
though they're embracing, they're weeping, and they are adulterers. They

525
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,920
are you know, famous, famous people from history that Dante describes.

526
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,559
And I would point to them and say, this is

527
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,840
this is the kind of torment of a failed relationship,

528
00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:41,679
a breakup where you're united to someone but it only

529
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:50,840
causes you grief to remember. And it wasn't something that

530
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:56,400
exploded at the time. It seemed more more acceptable in

531
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,000
the context, but in this other context where it was

532
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:05,320
brought up, it was a point of controversy I had.

533
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:10,840
I had another student who was much less uh, much less.

534
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:14,599
Speaker 4: Thoughtful on the question. She spoke up.

535
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 12: She said, what about what about our food preferences? What

536
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:28,119
if I prefer to eat candy instead of the meal

537
00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:33,000
for dinner, and I said, well, that's actually a very

538
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:39,119
good example. This is this is a very objective example.

539
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:44,280
You eat junk, you're made unhealthy, and that causes suffering.

540
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,920
We know what you ought to eat. This is not

541
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,199
a question at all I had. I had a long

542
00:43:54,360 --> 00:44:01,960
drawn out meeting that it went to the administray because

543
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:07,639
I was telling the students that they couldn't eat refined

544
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:14,199
sugar because it was their preference, because of objective value,

545
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,440
and it was the role of the teacher to tell

546
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:22,320
them how they ought to live. But it came down

547
00:44:22,519 --> 00:44:27,559
to the absurd example of lollipops as a substitute for

548
00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:31,039
a square meal. That was the example that was brought

549
00:44:31,079 --> 00:44:37,920
up in class. The most controversial question aside from the

550
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,079
sexual one, which had its own angry meetings with parents

551
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:48,199
concerning they thought I was being inappropriate, and I believe

552
00:44:48,199 --> 00:44:53,719
I acquitted myself on the point. But the most controversial

553
00:44:53,800 --> 00:45:00,800
question aside from that was I said, I believe it

554
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,639
had to have been in discussion in class. I don't

555
00:45:03,639 --> 00:45:06,400
think I ever wrote this down, but I was looking

556
00:45:06,519 --> 00:45:14,039
for an example of bad art, and I was thinking

557
00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:18,239
of something egregious. Specifically, I was thinking of something that

558
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,079
I did not believe any parent in my school would

559
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:26,559
go to bat for would immediately see my point and

560
00:45:27,519 --> 00:45:32,360
find it find it obvious, because I did not want

561
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,559
controversy on the question, and I realized things were things

562
00:45:35,559 --> 00:45:40,880
were touchy and worrisome. I was concerned about the response

563
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,280
I was getting from this minority of my students. So

564
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:49,360
I said, it's like saying that Lady Gaga is not

565
00:45:49,639 --> 00:45:56,840
worth your time or study, that it's wasteful and ugly objectively,

566
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,000
and that in music, you could devote your life to

567
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:05,639
the study of Mozart and that would be a worthy

568
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:11,559
use of your time, whereas Lady Gaga is disgusting and

569
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,119
is not worth even even your five minutes to listen

570
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:22,639
to a song. Well, that got an uproarious response I had.

571
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,239
I had several passionate students I had touched on something

572
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:33,239
they liked, which I did not anticipate. This was before

573
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:39,519
Lady Gaga sang the national anthem for Biden's inauguration, which

574
00:46:39,559 --> 00:46:47,880
I found I found especially appropriate. After my Lady Gaga thing,

575
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,320
something I talked about for years, that I that I

576
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,320
went that I staked my reputation on the ugliness of

577
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:08,480
Lady Gaga and lost credibility with my employers. I contended

578
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,119
and said that this is analogous to the full meal,

579
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:19,639
the square meal with vegetables and protein, and the lollipops.

580
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,519
But it's even worse. It's really like shit. It's like

581
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:31,119
eating shit. And this this got me into serious hot water.

582
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,559
It wasn't the word I used to describe with my

583
00:47:34,559 --> 00:47:42,519
my students, but is nevertheless what I believe. That very day,

584
00:47:44,119 --> 00:47:51,559
I walked down the hallway and I encountered another teacher,

585
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,639
the mother of one of the students who had contended

586
00:47:56,679 --> 00:48:01,400
with me that day, and I said, oh, I had

587
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,039
an interaction. I suspected this was going to come back

588
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:10,559
at me. I said, I was talking with your daughter today.

589
00:48:12,159 --> 00:48:14,760
In the midst of this, her daughter walks up. I

590
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,480
hadn't seen her there. She walks up. She had already

591
00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:22,480
told her mother about her interaction with me, and her

592
00:48:22,519 --> 00:48:25,199
mother says, yes, you were telling her what she ought

593
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,280
to eat. This is a high school student with her mother,

594
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,760
and her mother says, yes, you were telling her that

595
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:40,000
she had bad taste in food. And her daughter is

596
00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:42,679
standing right there to accuse me in front of her mother.

597
00:48:43,639 --> 00:48:44,599
Speaker 4: She says yes.

598
00:48:45,039 --> 00:48:47,559
Speaker 12: He says, I don't know what I should what I

599
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:51,239
ought to eat. And I said to the mother, in

600
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:57,159
all seriousness, we were talking about lollipops versus a meal.

601
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:06,519
I thinking this is going to get respect, and she says, no,

602
00:49:06,639 --> 00:49:09,239
if my daughter wants to eat something, it's her business,

603
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,800
you have no say. And what's all this nonsense about

604
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,760
objectivity about this that there are things that are worth

605
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,280
eating and things that are not worth eating. And I said, well,

606
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,039
the question is a little more complex than that. I

607
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:26,719
even brought this into our discussion in the class. I

608
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:32,400
said dark chocolate would be better than lollipops because there's

609
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:39,039
more to taste, because it's a more sophisticated enjoyment. And

610
00:49:39,079 --> 00:49:46,480
her mother said, well, that's just bigotry. And then I

611
00:49:46,639 --> 00:49:54,280
had some meetings. I had several meetings after that with

612
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,960
aggrieved parents whose students went home to tell them about

613
00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:06,320
out my Lady Gaga opinion. I had one parent that

614
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,840
came in to say, oh, well, all that, all that

615
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:15,800
Beethoven stuff, that's all fine, but you can't tell anybody

616
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,360
what they should like. I had a parent that said,

617
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:25,079
I have never heard of Lady Gaga, and I quote,

618
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,880
never heard of Lady Gaga, but I'm going to tell

619
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,719
my children to listen to them, to her so that

620
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:40,119
they won't be a bigot like you, which just made

621
00:50:40,159 --> 00:50:43,800
my eyes pop out. I did not and that and

622
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,519
that was my my ultimate mistake. I did not know

623
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:51,599
my audience. I didn't know ultimately who I was teaching for.

624
00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:02,840
And this is this is the bigger problem, because this,

625
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,800
this is the mainstream, and it does not it doesn't

626
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,199
need to be the preponderance. It does not need to

627
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:17,599
be fifty percent. It need only be a few and that,

628
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,559
you know, with a with a school that's reliant on tuition,

629
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,320
which is really the only thing we would have to

630
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:30,000
work with with any sort of dissidence where it's enough

631
00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:31,199
to end the career.

632
00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 2: Here are several things there, And it's funny to me

633
00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:46,199
because you know, when you when you say the term

634
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:52,239
like neo conservative, it's tough because there's both a specific

635
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:57,960
and a generalized meaning to that. For instance, like in

636
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,159
this context, we're basically just talking about like normal conservatives, right,

637
00:52:01,159 --> 00:52:06,719
like conninc types, versus like the actual literal neoconservatives. Because

638
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,320
one of the things that I find so funny is

639
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,880
that if you actually go into you know, like real

640
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:16,320
neoconservatives velocity. One of the things that they are quite

641
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:22,039
concerned about is the decay of objective morals right they

642
00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:24,599
view that they view relativism. That's what's being wrong with

643
00:52:24,639 --> 00:52:28,039
our country. And it's interesting to me that you know

644
00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:29,360
many of the people who.

645
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 15: Are you applying for a first time passport or renewing one,

646
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,920
whether it's for you or your child. The fastest and

647
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:41,760
easiest way to do it is online at Ireland dot

648
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:46,320
ie ford slash passports. And if you find applying online challenging,

649
00:52:46,679 --> 00:52:50,199
the Passport Assist Team is here to help. Call Passport

650
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,960
Assist on zero one six one three one seven ninety

651
00:52:54,039 --> 00:52:57,000
five and talk to someone who can support you. Brought

652
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:58,519
to you by the Government of Ireland.

653
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 7: What's brought me into therapy? Bone watch alarms. They're ruining

654
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,679
my life. I can't enjoy listening to music or podcasts

655
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,320
anymore like normal people because that dreadful sound is ringing

656
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:10,320
in my head day and night.

657
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 12: Woo woo woo.

658
00:53:11,679 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 13: With their damn fifteen seconds response time.

659
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,159
Speaker 7: I'd never get away with us. Plus they're twenty four

660
00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:20,360
to seven monitoring the app camera motion detector's wireless video

661
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:20,960
door bell.

662
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:23,559
Speaker 15: I might never be able to Burgle again, get the

663
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:26,760
alarm burglars fear for just ninety nine euro don't be alarmed,

664
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:27,599
be phone watched.

665
00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:30,559
Speaker 7: Offer ends December thirty first. Monitoring fees in terms apply.

666
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 2: Would either champion their beliefs explicitly or just by osmosis

667
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:41,400
have discarded that core central tenet and have basically, you know,

668
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,719
kind of kept this this kind of very you know,

669
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:48,559
watered down form of cultural conservatism where it's basically just

670
00:53:49,119 --> 00:53:53,440
you know, it's it's progressivism, but without the gay stuff.

671
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,119
And even then there's kind of a ratchet and prawl

672
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,599
that you know, many on the right have gust that

673
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:06,960
the you know, the values of yesterday's conservatives are completely

674
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,800
and totally unacceptable. And I mean, I think that the

675
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:15,679
bigger problem, the bigger problem in all of this right

676
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,440
is again right, like, why do people send their children

677
00:54:19,559 --> 00:54:25,639
to private education? Do they do that to raise their

678
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,440
children outside of the influence of modern culture, the regime

679
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,920
as we would say it, or to accredit them? And

680
00:54:33,159 --> 00:54:35,760
that's a problem that needs to be addressed because if

681
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,599
the answer is simply to accredit them, well they've got

682
00:54:38,599 --> 00:54:42,000
you by the nose, because you can't ever do anything

683
00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:47,320
too outside of you know, higher education. You can't do

684
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,559
anything that goes against them too much, because then you'll

685
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:53,360
never be allowed to index with that system. Similarly, I

686
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,880
think that this has sort of been improved, but talking

687
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:01,320
to you know, other people at similar institutions, it seemed

688
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,280
like COVID was sort of the worst time for this,

689
00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:09,079
because effectively, what you had is any of these private

690
00:55:09,079 --> 00:55:14,880
schools were effectively one of the only educational institutions that

691
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,000
was open. And so what happened, at least as far

692
00:55:18,039 --> 00:55:20,679
as I've had it explained to me, is that a

693
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,159
whole bunch of kids got set there because their parents

694
00:55:23,159 --> 00:55:26,920
wanted them to go to any school, and so you

695
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:31,920
had a lot of that side stepping of the traditional gatekeeping. Right,

696
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,519
Someone's like, well, I don't care if it's a crazy

697
00:55:33,559 --> 00:55:36,239
religious school, I just want my kid there, and then

698
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:40,400
that begins to metastasize. I think it's a difficult thing

699
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,400
because there does need to be some sort of of gatekeeper,

700
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:47,880
and this becomes incredibly difficult. Less so now, but when

701
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:54,039
you have a hostile administration and effectively a whole office

702
00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:57,719
of the DOJ that exists to ruin the life of

703
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,199
anyone who says you can't send your kid here. If

704
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:03,960
you're a lesbian like, that's not what we want. You

705
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,760
can't send your trans kid here. And so it's a

706
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,880
really precarious position to be it because, as I'm sure

707
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:17,320
you know, Bagbie scandal can kill a school like that,

708
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,599
you know, one that is entirely elective. You know, they

709
00:56:20,599 --> 00:56:22,719
don't get federal funds. It's not like they can just

710
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:29,039
fire someone and completely dodge responsibility. And so I don't

711
00:56:29,079 --> 00:56:31,400
say this to let these people off the hook, but

712
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,000
they are in a tough situation. And I think that

713
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,159
especially if you've imbibed the and this is something that

714
00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:40,079
I've spoken to the groupcost about before, but if you've

715
00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:45,320
been bied the value system of managerialism, right, the idea

716
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,159
that the purpose of any institution is to grow incrementally bigger,

717
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,880
you know, to find metrics and improve them. You know,

718
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,840
however arbitrarily those are defined. Well, are you going to

719
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,119
say no? Are you going to say we don't care,

720
00:56:58,199 --> 00:57:00,880
We're sorry, you know, your child is no longer welcome here.

721
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:05,719
I've seen schools do it, but it's rare, especially rare

722
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,639
when money is tight. To be brutally honest, but I'll

723
00:57:08,679 --> 00:57:09,519
kick get back to you.

724
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 12: Indeed, and those practical considerations ensure the survival of those institutions.

725
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:25,679
And I've been close enough to the administration. I was

726
00:57:25,719 --> 00:57:28,800
finally an administrator myself, though I didn't have much to do.

727
00:57:30,199 --> 00:57:36,639
I sat in the meetings. But it ensures the survival.

728
00:57:36,679 --> 00:57:40,519
And so there are compromises made on that level, which

729
00:57:40,559 --> 00:57:46,679
I understand, because you want to make payroll. You believe

730
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:51,639
that you are doing a measure of good and given

731
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:58,239
the norms, the norms are always important to note. The

732
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:05,320
norms determine what will fly and for the in the

733
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:10,960
administrator's perspective. And I heard this from an administrator on

734
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,800
an occasion. I still remember it. He said, look here,

735
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:20,960
you're teaching Dante. Dante is full of things they are

736
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:28,880
not going to buy. Consider the greater good. And what

737
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:33,519
he was was communicating to me is don't harp on

738
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:39,079
the controversial parts now. And then this is also where

739
00:58:39,679 --> 00:58:42,079
I look back on my own career, and I was thinking,

740
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,679
I'm thinking, now, you know, I if I was not

741
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:51,559
submission driven because I thought that the administration would back

742
00:58:51,639 --> 00:58:58,039
me up and was not aware of their practical concerns,

743
00:58:59,639 --> 00:59:05,199
I could have had a longer career. It's only it's

744
00:59:05,199 --> 00:59:08,000
only in in my mistakes that I was able to

745
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:08,440
see this.

746
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:10,559
Speaker 4: Truly.

747
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 12: But it was through these hostile meetings that I really

748
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:29,320
first realized the seriousness that to have a preference will

749
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:39,519
be called bigotry, That the the individual moral preference. The

750
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:42,280
idea that a child can have.

751
00:59:44,119 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 4: Moral agency and.

752
00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 12: Choose some some philosophy of ethics, That that a an

753
00:59:54,840 --> 01:00:01,159
immature youth can be a philosopher of ethics for their

754
01:00:01,199 --> 01:00:09,360
own lives, can decide what's ultimately good, has created such

755
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,280
an untenable position in education.

756
01:00:11,719 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 4: Now.

757
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,519
Speaker 12: The best, the best proposal I've ever heard, and I'm

758
01:00:16,639 --> 01:00:20,679
still very taken with it, came from another administrator, a

759
01:00:20,679 --> 01:00:26,440
friend who I'm still in touch with. This person said

760
01:00:27,599 --> 01:00:32,480
we need to have an elite tier, and I still

761
01:00:32,519 --> 01:00:35,119
think that that is a wonderful way to go forward.

762
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:42,400
So the elite tier would be to teach the literature

763
01:00:43,039 --> 01:00:49,960
as I did, but not ask for any recognition of

764
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:55,960
an order of goods. That would be the mainstream tier.

765
01:00:56,159 --> 01:01:00,360
That would be the general admission class. The elite tier,

766
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:07,559
which this person proposed, would be the upper grades. Maybe

767
01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:09,880
maybe if it was large enough school, it could be

768
01:01:10,119 --> 01:01:13,519
a more exclusive set alongside.

769
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,519
Speaker 4: The upper grades.

770
01:01:16,159 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 12: But the person said, the elite tier should be invitation only,

771
01:01:22,119 --> 01:01:27,559
it must be exclusive, and there we can actually require

772
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:33,719
essays and we can teach them what they should believe

773
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:41,079
about a particular point. Now, and this is this is

774
01:01:41,119 --> 01:01:47,719
such a larger problem. And this is why traditionally schools

775
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:56,280
were organized on sectarian lines, and schools were explicitly religious,

776
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:02,199
because on a point of controversy, especially in theology, we

777
01:02:02,239 --> 01:02:07,039
can all understand this easily, the supreme truth about God

778
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:12,920
and your role in the universe, that different Christians will

779
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:19,760
have different answers based on their explicit loyalties. Therefore, they

780
01:02:20,119 --> 01:02:22,960
organized on sectarian lines so that they could all be

781
01:02:23,039 --> 01:02:26,519
on board with the highest thing and all say the

782
01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:35,079
same thing. In our condition, we are trying to organize

783
01:02:35,559 --> 01:02:43,719
people of common cultural loyalty, are trying to organize something together.

784
01:02:45,519 --> 01:02:50,360
And this puts Catholics and Protestants and Orthodox like me

785
01:02:51,519 --> 01:02:57,199
all thrown together. And so we overlook those sectarian differences.

786
01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:03,559
And there is a kind of liberality. But what I

787
01:03:03,639 --> 01:03:11,159
saw in my own experience, the cultural liberality will always

788
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:16,360
have the greater importance the freedom of the youngster to

789
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:22,000
be their own philosopher of ethics. That is the grounds,

790
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:26,280
it's not going to be the Catholic insisting on a

791
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:33,639
Catholic point of theology in our condition that is quaint.

792
01:03:36,519 --> 01:03:38,800
As one of my students said, when I was talking

793
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:47,039
about the music, one of my students said, well, mister Bagbie,

794
01:03:47,199 --> 01:03:53,880
you're talking about something that well in music. I was saying,

795
01:03:54,079 --> 01:03:57,679
I was saying Beethoven's better than Lady Gaga. I made

796
01:03:57,719 --> 01:04:02,920
another analogy. I said, well, Shakespeare is better than USA

797
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:08,960
today because we throw away USA today every day. No

798
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,719
one will pick it up again. And look at what

799
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:17,239
they said, because it's not of enduring quality. And every

800
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,519
once in a while a journalist writes something that we

801
01:04:19,599 --> 01:04:24,519
will reference again, but it's quite rare. It's disposable, right,

802
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:30,199
And that had adherents. I want a point in the argument.

803
01:04:31,199 --> 01:04:34,039
They responded well to that. But one of the students

804
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:39,400
raised hand and said, well, mister Bagbee, you're talking about

805
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:46,400
stuff that's written down, and we actually care about music.

806
01:04:48,159 --> 01:04:51,679
So you can have your distinguishing taste when it comes

807
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:57,239
to Shakespeare versus USA today, but don't touch our taste

808
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:03,559
in music, which is a way of saying, don't talk

809
01:05:03,599 --> 01:05:09,199
about things we think are important. You have your own

810
01:05:09,239 --> 01:05:13,559
weird ideas about what is important and finally valuable. You

811
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:15,880
can talk about that all you want. We don't care

812
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:16,280
about that.

813
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 8: The weeks before Christmas, I just take time to enjoy

814
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:25,000
the present present shockers This week at London's it's any

815
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:27,840
three for five year across our pringles range, get selected

816
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,400
seven up Club or Pepsi eight Pac can range just

817
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,519
four ninety nine plus deposit and enjoy Guinness twelve pac

818
01:05:33,559 --> 01:05:36,639
cans just nineteen eighty eight and Carlsburg twelve pack cans

819
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,480
just twenty thirty six plus deposit At London's. We know

820
01:05:39,519 --> 01:05:42,880
what locals want because we're local like you. Enjoy alcohol

821
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,119
responsibly offers end seventh of December in participating stores while

822
01:05:46,159 --> 01:05:46,800
stocks last.

823
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 7: Mum, why did they call it Scottish cheese?

824
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:51,239
Speaker 1: This cottage cheese?

825
01:05:51,239 --> 01:05:51,639
Speaker 12: Honey?

826
01:05:51,719 --> 01:05:53,079
Speaker 14: And I'm not sure.

827
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 2: Did dogs in other countries speak different languages?

828
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 10: Yeah?

829
01:05:57,039 --> 01:05:57,559
Speaker 3: I think so.

830
01:05:57,920 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 15: When we get there.

831
01:05:59,159 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: Well, we've got to fix car first.

832
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:02,239
Speaker 5: But there's someone coming to help us.

833
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:04,239
Speaker 8: Is it a man from Geneva?

834
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: Not Geneva, he's from a Viva.

835
01:06:07,079 --> 01:06:08,239
Speaker 5: Oh there's a van now.

836
01:06:08,559 --> 01:06:11,559
Speaker 11: For car insurance with breakdown rescue, it takes a Viva

837
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,320
visit Aviva doda E to say fifteen percent acceptance criteria.

838
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,719
Speaker 9: Terms and conditions apply. Minimum premium of three hundred and

839
01:06:17,719 --> 01:06:20,159
ten year old. Fifteen percent discount applies to new policies

840
01:06:20,159 --> 01:06:23,599
BottomLine See Aviva dota Eva details. Car insurance is underwritten

841
01:06:23,599 --> 01:06:26,440
by Aviva Insurance Arland dak Aviva Direct Arland Limited is

842
01:06:26,519 --> 01:06:28,119
regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

843
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,199
Speaker 12: But don't talk about what we think is important and

844
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:37,280
that question of taste. Why why put Homer in front

845
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:42,159
of a student? Because Homer is the best, we will

846
01:06:42,199 --> 01:06:44,440
put in front of them. What is the very best.

847
01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:48,440
That's what we aim to do. That's why we talk

848
01:06:48,519 --> 01:06:53,119
about the leaders in history, the people that made the decisions,

849
01:06:53,639 --> 01:06:56,880
why they are the most important because they they resolve

850
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:01,960
a conflict, They determine what comes next. To some some degree,

851
01:07:02,719 --> 01:07:05,119
it's not it's not to them to decide which which

852
01:07:05,119 --> 01:07:07,679
of the historical characters or events are the most important.

853
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:15,400
We're there to tell them what is and what what

854
01:07:15,639 --> 01:07:19,800
ultimately results and we know we know how this breaks down.

855
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,800
With the decline of the liberal order, there is no

856
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:28,679
one in a position to tell the hungry what they

857
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:36,880
should be fed. No one has has that general recognized authority.

858
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:43,360
That is necessary to be authoritative as a teacher, and

859
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:52,400
that's why more exclusive sets are necessary for education. You

860
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:57,360
must have a you must have a loyalty and adherence

861
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:05,400
a solidarity in a group. And that's something that many

862
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,760
of us are talking about over in the Old Glory

863
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:14,719
Club and later recently with our friend Dave the Distributists.

864
01:08:15,679 --> 01:08:20,359
They've been talking very constructively on that. Dave even said

865
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:28,439
just recently in his most recent show with the Cascade

866
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:36,720
Society that we have to be or we should be

867
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:40,800
more intentional about who we can do things with so

868
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:45,560
that we can build these kinds of communities. These things

869
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:50,039
are necessary to preserve the things we most value. We

870
01:08:50,159 --> 01:08:55,439
must coordinate because, as Aristotle says, in the politics, the

871
01:08:55,640 --> 01:09:03,640
isolated individual is as inconsequential as the in chess. We

872
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:08,640
have to be able to coordinate in groups so that

873
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:15,159
we can have things like education that will elucidate the values.

874
01:09:26,239 --> 01:09:29,199
Speaker 2: Well, Bagbee, I think that we are fast approaching time.

875
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,239
I will have to have you on again to discuss

876
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:36,680
this at length when I'm feeling a little bit better.

877
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:41,840
But I'm really glad to have had you on. Where

878
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,920
can people find more of you and more of your work.

879
01:09:47,079 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 12: Yes, indeed, I have a telegram channel called Bagbee's Corner

880
01:09:53,119 --> 01:09:57,439
where I'll publish my thoughts. I'm really more active there

881
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:59,439
than I am on X. You can find me on

882
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:05,319
X at tall Men Books, and I am a publisher.

883
01:10:06,119 --> 01:10:08,720
I've got a number of new books coming out. I

884
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:13,000
just I just uh submitted a book for a new

885
01:10:13,079 --> 01:10:16,279
series today. I've got a new series on lawmen and

886
01:10:16,319 --> 01:10:20,439
outlaws in the Old West, and I hope to announce

887
01:10:21,079 --> 01:10:25,239
the publication of that first title later this week. You

888
01:10:25,279 --> 01:10:32,119
can find my my works on www dot tallmen Books

889
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:38,600
dot com me n Tallmen Books dot Com, where you

890
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:43,119
can find all the books I've republished. That's my business.

891
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:45,560
It's always a pleasure to come on. Thanks a lot

892
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:46,359
for having me.

893
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:52,159
Speaker 2: Of course, very much glad to have you and everyone

894
01:10:52,239 --> 01:10:54,880
at home. Keep your head up, but I can't last forever.

895
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:28,760
Speaker 5: You know the way your energy bill turns up and

896
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:32,520
you start doing maths you haven't touched since the leaving start. Yeah,

897
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:35,319
not with you know energy. With you know energy, you

898
01:11:35,359 --> 01:11:38,439
get monthly bill predictions, track what you're using by the hour,

899
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:41,600
and even see where you're overspending. It's the tumble dryer.

900
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,760
It's always the tumble dryer with you know energy. It's

901
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,560
all in the app, simple as so instead of guessing

902
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:50,920
you're actually managing your energy. You know energy. You just

903
01:11:51,079 --> 01:11:53,159
know ro o I only eighteen plus seas and C

904
01:11:53,279 --> 01:11:55,920
suplacy you know energy dot I E Energy.

905
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:57,119
Speaker 6: You saw it.

906
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,119
Speaker 7: It was just a moment, but you saw how her

907
01:12:00,119 --> 01:12:05,520
smile fell, her words slipped, slurred, but straightened again. She

908
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:09,199
said she was fine. So you waited, But a stroke

909
01:12:09,279 --> 01:12:13,600
doesn't wait. You don't need all the signs. One is enough,

910
01:12:14,319 --> 01:12:19,560
remember fast face arms speech time. The second you suspect

911
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,079
a stroke is the second you dial nine ninet nine

912
01:12:22,279 --> 01:12:25,640
or one one two. Search HS stroke for more from

913
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:26,159
the HS