WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:03.240 It's squeaky bun time at the bottom and the top 2 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.879 Wigginer a team who's momentum won't stop Giants off the bottom. 3 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.000 After four in a row, Bradford and Hull suffered a 4 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:13.960 devastating blow. Many results didn't go how we both thought. 5 00:00:14.519 --> 00:00:17.239 For how many pounds will super League be bought? Welcome 6 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:20.920 to the thirty third episode of Super League three sixty, 7 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:25.079 a podcast primarily about the top tier of British rugby league, 8 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:27.399 but we do talk some ouzzy rugby league as well. 9 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:29.440 My name is Lee Addison. 10 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:32.039 My name is John Davidson. 11 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:35.719 My good friend John is in the UK a journalist, 12 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:38.679 but obviously he can tell by his accent. He's still 13 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:41.719 working on his Yorkshire accent and I'm still working on 14 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:43.920 my Brisbane one, even though I've been here for over 15 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:49.000 two decades. Please read descriptions or listen to old pods 16 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:52.159 too to find out more. If you are listening on 17 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:55.960 the Ashes Rugby League podcast platform, please start switching over 18 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:59.679 end of this month it won't be available. Super League 19 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:02.719 three six actually won't be available anyway. Rugby League Coach 20 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:08.239 podcast listeners please you can keep listening on the Rugby 21 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.799 League Coach Podcast platform and you can still see us 22 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:14.799 on the Rugby League Coach YouTube too, and thank you 23 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:18.519 to Rugby League dot Com who are also carrying this 24 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:22.200 podcast each week. I want to start this week, John 25 00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:24.159 a little bit different to the way we normally start. 26 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:26.239 We normally go through the games and whatnot. But I 27 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:32.799 think we can't underestimate how much of a massive moment 28 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:36.239 it is for rugby league in the UK, the fact 29 00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:40.760 that yes, yes, the NRL have finally come up with 30 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:46.200 a deal. Now we've got so much to unpack. I 31 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:48.200 just want to let you know that I've given myself 32 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:50.760 the Rugby League Tweet of the Week award this week. 33 00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:53.959 I've awarded it to myself and this will be a 34 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:56.959 great conversation starter, I think. And it was the tweet 35 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:59.040 I did where I said so super League is worth 36 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:01.560 about one quarter of the record transfer fee in the 37 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.200 Premier League, a similar price to buying Girly in Carland's 38 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:08.360 left leg. No wonder the game is struggling in the UK. 39 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:14.560 According to an article in the Sydney Morning Herald, the 40 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:18.599 offer is basically designed for the NRL to take over 41 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.159 the running of the Super League, with the funds coming 42 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:26.319 from a joint venture with the zone and that the 43 00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:30.560 subscription package and the TV deal, if you like, would 44 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:33.960 be for do Zonne and NRL to partner on a 45 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:37.400 rugby league pass offering to English fans so they can 46 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.639 watch the NRL as well. So Thursday's offer was the 47 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:46.280 first step. Apparently some NRL clubs have expressed a willingness 48 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:49.599 to forge more strategic ties with clubs in England should 49 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:54.199 it go through. The NRL wants to apparently turn around 50 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.240 the financial fortunes of the league because so many of 51 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:01.759 the clubs are losing money. So I've just paraphrased some 52 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:05.240 of the article from Adrian Pasenko. I think it was 53 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:09.680 in the Sydney Morning Herald. Yeah, dive in John, let 54 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:10.479 me know what you've got. 55 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:17.759 Yeah, well that was so essentially the offer was submitted Wednesday. 56 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:20.800 What are we Sunday morning here now, and then the 57 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:25.280 Super League clubs met on Thursday morning. Now, it's been 58 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:27.360 probably eighteen months that this story is wrong, but on 59 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:30.639 hasn't it. There was meetings in Vegas in twenty five 60 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:36.759 with Mike Danson and Simon Ram with Peter Vandy's but 61 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:40.120 we haven't actually had there hasn't been an offer, an 62 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:44.000 official offer submitted to super League to the RFL until 63 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:46.719 last week or two, a few days ago, so that 64 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:47.879 was obviously a big moment. 65 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:51.120 I'd heard just before. 66 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:55.319 That from a source in the NRL that Peter Laney's 67 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:57.520 actually wanted to get a deal done with super League 68 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:01.680 before his NROL TV rights deal with Design was done, 69 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:05.400 because I think that was the common thought that the 70 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:09.080 super League's rights would be packaged in with the NRL. 71 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:10.759 And obviously, you know. 72 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:13.560 They've got five point three billion over seven years in 73 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.160 Australian dollars, which is what two point six five billion pounds, 74 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:19.639 so that some of that money could have been used 75 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:24.360 for part of the super League offer. Now obviously that 76 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:27.439 didn't happen, so we've got to this point. The offer 77 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:28.079 was submitted. 78 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:28.480 Now. 79 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:32.000 I spoke to a lot of people on Thursday afternoon 80 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:35.199 for the story I wrote for the I I think 81 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:40.040 the general consensus was people were happy to receive an 82 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:44.120 offer after dating months, but they weren't overwhelmed by the offer. 83 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.480 You know, the figure that was there wasn't wow. Now, 84 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:52.319 I think Deloitte has valued who the RLC regular commercial 85 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:55.959 appointed in April, they valued super League a lot higher. 86 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:59.279 I think there was a figure that had been banded 87 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:00.199 about about one hundre. 88 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:05.079 Fifty million, so effectively the NROL offer is it was valued. 89 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:08.720 I just want to make this clear because I think 90 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:11.319 there is a bit of confusion now they're offering to 91 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:15.120 buy Rugby League Commercial. Now Rugby League Commercial controls the 92 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.959 commercial rights, the broadcasting, the marketing, the events rights of 93 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:21.000 rugby league. In the UK it's a joint venture between 94 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.199 Super League and the RFL. They own fifty to fifty each. 95 00:05:24.759 --> 00:05:27.279 This is where it gets so confusion because in Australia, 96 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:31.240 as you know, you've got the RLC, which you know 97 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:33.920 is in charge of the NROL, and the NROL controls everything, 98 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:34.399 doesn't it. 99 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:36.000 Like I know, there's the. 100 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.920 New so World Rugby League, the Queens and the Rugby League, 101 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:42.000 but effectively the NRL is the number one body. But 102 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:46.519 in England you've got the RFL, which controls everything. But 103 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.240 then you've got Super League is a separate part run 104 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:51.839 effectively by the member clubs, and you've got Rugby Leage 105 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.360 Commercial which controls the commercial broadcasting side. And then you've 106 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:58.720 later got the RFL Council, which is everyone who gets 107 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:01.600 a vote you know for it be Batley or Midlands 108 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:06.279 or the armed Forces, et cetera. So it is a 109 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:10.399 bit confusing. But the initial reaction I got was this 110 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:13.759 was a first offer. Clubs weren't impressed by it, but 111 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:17.920 they want to negotiate. It's not like, you know, we 112 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:18.759 don't want this offer. 113 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:19.920 That's it. It's dead in the water. 114 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:26.480 They want to push for more money. It was I 115 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:28.199 was told to me that there will be a meeting 116 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.439 next Thursday, and then another meeting Thursday after that as 117 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:35.000 talks continue. Now the Sydney Morning Herald that you reference article, 118 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:38.079 which I think was in Saturday's paper. It was interesting 119 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:41.920 that it said that this was likely to be the 120 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:46.240 only offer. Now, whether that's a message from the NRL 121 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.240 or whether that's one hundred percent spot on, I don't know. 122 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:53.800 So that's interesting the difference in thought from the Northern 123 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:55.040 the Southern hemisphere, isn't it. 124 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:59.680 I if I was giving the RFL and the various 125 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:02.439 bodies that are involved in this any advice, I would 126 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:08.279 take no notice whatsoever about what the land is might 127 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:12.240 lead to the press, because just over a week ago 128 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:15.360 it was we don't think a deal can get done, 129 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:17.079 and then all of a sudden there was an offer 130 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:21.319 on the on the table. Also, I think I know 131 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:25.040 why Valand has wanted it earlier, because now that he's 132 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:28.279 just signed a new broadcast deal, everyone knows they've got 133 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.480 some money. So the players want a bit of it, 134 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:35.319 the States want a bit of it, and of course 135 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:40.920 the English game wants a bit of that too. This 136 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:45.600 whole thing, and to put it into some kind of context, 137 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:48.680 I think the best predictor of what Man will do 138 00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:50.920 is what Man has done and I and I would 139 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.399 put this right now in terms of British super League 140 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:58.399 or European super League. Sorry, I put this in the 141 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:02.480 same category as nineteen seventies when the Cane report came 142 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:05.920 in and it was critical of Eddy wearing and whatnot 143 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:12.199 and the things that happened. I would put it in 144 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:16.199 the same basket. As how, the game had to take 145 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:19.519 a close look at itself after the nineteen eighteen eighty 146 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:24.639 two Kangaroota from a performance perspective that was seasoning then too. 147 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:30.519 It's similar time in the game to Framing the Future, 148 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.480 which was the precursor to super League. We then, of 149 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:38.440 course had the Super League money and now IMG and 150 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:43.080 then the NRL. Now, what's a common denominator across all 151 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:44.000 of those things. 152 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:44.519 Is that. 153 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:50.720 To everybody on the outside. You know John Kaine, Yeah, 154 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:52.960 is a Manchester wiz kid. They used to call him. 155 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.440 He must know what he's talking about. But the game 156 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:59.159 pushed back and John Kaine got frustrated with what went 157 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:06.200 on nineteen eighty two. The English performance has never recovered. 158 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.279 The British performance has never recovered since nineteen eighty two. 159 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:12.399 Framing the Future, there was some pushback based on that. 160 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:15.960 In fact, it probably didn't get enough time to be 161 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.559 ingested completely because Super League came on the scene. Now 162 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:23.279 many people will forget that. Morris Lindsay came on the 163 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:27.720 Late Morris Lindsay came on television to announce the deal 164 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:31.480 with Sky at the time and they were mergers. He 165 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:35.480 was on about Wakefield and Castleford merging and some other 166 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:41.480 teams Manchester from Salford and Oldham, etc. And the game 167 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.639 pushed back on that as well. So what we ended 168 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:47.879 it with was, oh, don't get me wrong, it was 169 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.799 far better packaged than the Sky, but it was lipstick 170 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:54.200 on a pig. It was the same thing but packaged 171 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:57.519 a little bit differently. And then we've got the IMG 172 00:09:59.559 --> 00:10:02.919 crit areas and whatnot. There's been plenty of pushback about that. 173 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:06.679 There's been different patterns in the media of people being 174 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:10.159 critical of it and whatnot. And now we've got the NRL. 175 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:16.440 Now I can't, for the life of me, John see 176 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:21.000 all the people involved in the UK being happy to 177 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.120 just transfer power over to Australia and that will potentially 178 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:26.080 be the sticky point. 179 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:31.120 I think, yeah, yeah, no, I mean, just jumping back 180 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:31.639 a little bit. 181 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:34.759 Yeah, the common denominators you say with the game report, 182 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:36.519 with framing the future, all those things is they didn't 183 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:40.360 get implemented. The game pushback and they didn't get implemented, 184 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:43.600 so there wasn't really proper change. Now with I just 185 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:45.360 want to clear up a little bit thing with this deal. 186 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:49.080 People think so on the a lot on the Australian side, 187 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.039 I think, why would they not accept it? You know, 188 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:54.639 super exciting. On the English side, the general consensus is 189 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.279 it's not enough money. Some people think that the NRLs 190 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:03.080 try and wrote them Baldom et cetera, et cetera. Now, obviously, 191 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:06.159 if you're going to buy something, you're not going to 192 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.879 pay overs, are you if you can avoid it. 193 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:10.159 I mean, that's just common sense in a house and. 194 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:14.600 It's a negotiation tactic, you know, Yeah, but loan you 195 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:15.159 go high. 196 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:17.120 Yeah, but I would add to I would add to that, 197 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:19.720 the NRL is not buying super League to destroy it 198 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:20.639 or run into. 199 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:22.879 The ground like that. Now, just like cutting off your 200 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:26.559 nose despite your face like that makes no sense. The 201 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:29.240 other thing that I find is there's been lost here. 202 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:33.240 Is that so this six or seven million quid depending 203 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.159 on currency exchange whatever, you know, a year for five 204 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:39.919 years to get to thirty million for fifty percent ownership. 205 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.759 That is not six or seven million as I understand it. 206 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:46.679 And I could be wrong because the detail hasn't been 207 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.240 publicly shared, but that's not for the clubs. Now, what 208 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:55.080 I my understanding of the deal would be is Sky 209 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:59.320 have say three games of the seven they pay roughly 210 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:01.360 what they're paying now, which is twenty one point five 211 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:05.159 million pounds, and then Dezone have the other four games. 212 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:07.799 And I don't know what Dezone would be willing to 213 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:10.399 throw in for that. Would that be six million, would 214 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:13.320 it be ten million, whatever it is. So with design, 215 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.360 you would have those four super League games, you would 216 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:17.480 have all the NRL games, you'd have all the watch 217 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:19.679 NRL stuff, so you'd have the Maddie john Ship all 218 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:22.960 that stuff. So obviously you know the consumers will have 219 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:26.840 to pay more, but overall there will be more money 220 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.000 for the clubs. Now that would mean that they're getting 221 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.159 more money than they're getting now under the current deal. 222 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:35.559 And then that six million would be ring fence for 223 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.039 the center, so that would go to promoting super League, marketing, 224 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:42.840 super League advertising, super League pathways, all things that the 225 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:46.879 RFL currently doesn't do because it has no money. Now 226 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:51.200 that for me is massive because you can give clubs 227 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.960 more money and the owners will be losing less, but 228 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.759 that's not going to change the overall state of rugby 229 00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:59.399 league in England. There are so many things people figuring 230 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:01.639 is there's so many things that need to change. There 231 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:04.279 needs to be new leadership, there needs to be, you know, 232 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:05.919 a push for the game to be in schools. The 233 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:08.879 whole media profile, the publicity needs to change, you know, 234 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:11.039 the way they engage with the media, the access they give. 235 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.360 There are so many things. I could write you a 236 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:15.960 two hundred point list, and I know you know most 237 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.480 of them anyway, and you've been Australia for twenty years, 238 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:21.559 but you know how much things need to change. 239 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:23.440 So that's the key. 240 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:25.679 Here is not the money figure for me, it's the 241 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:29.279 it's the expertise, it's the operations. And we don't know 242 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:32.840 who would sit on an independent commission. We don't know 243 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.200 who from the NROL from Australia might be, or who 244 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:37.240 they would hire to run the game. We don't know 245 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:39.240 who they put positions. We don't know whether it be 246 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:42.320 a team, We don't know. You know, there's no detail 247 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:45.039 about fourteen teams, fifteen teams London coming. We're not at 248 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:47.320 that stage. That's far down the line. We're not even 249 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.000 close to that. What happens with IMG, we're not even 250 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.919 at that point. We're just literally at a starting point. 251 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:56.279 So people are getting way over excited, you know, asking 252 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.279 what happens to the championship, what happens to you know, 253 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:02.919 all the other elements. The NRL is interested in Super League. 254 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.559 This is the initial thing, right Unfortunately, thing with the 255 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:10.559 championship is the money that's involved there or to fund it. Well, 256 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:12.879 it does come from the TV deal, like, it's not 257 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:17.759 the priority. So yeah, I just I just ended at 258 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:21.039 that point saying the opportunity here is massive. So it's 259 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:25.039 not just about pure whole figures and money like it's 260 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.600 the other things that the NRL could provide, and I 261 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.080 think people have got to consider that when it's just 262 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:34.399 not about Okay, how much money do we get individually. 263 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.360 I mean, I think that's quite a limited, kind of 264 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:39.000 selfish way of looking at this whole thing. 265 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:43.559 You mentioned the word expertise, and because the NRL are 266 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:45.320 doing such a good job of marketing the game in 267 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:51.399 Australia right now, Yeah, I do support the CEOs and 268 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:53.759 the chair men and chair women at the moment who 269 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:57.639 were a little bit reticent because in this context, because 270 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:00.679 we go into a very different market in the UK. 271 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:09.600 For example, Salford have gone already, but Warrington, Wigan, Saint 272 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:14.759 Helen's they are all within the same and similar boundaries 273 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:18.399 to two of the three of the biggest four of 274 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:26.480 the biggest English Premier League clubs in the world, and 275 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:33.200 and London. London has actually failed on about eight occasions 276 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:37.879 before two Australians have come in and contributed to it 277 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:42.320 again because what happens in Australia is it seems like 278 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.039 a no brainer for rugby league to be in London. 279 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.360 It seems like a no brainer to have a Manchester franchise, 280 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:53.840 for example, But there's unique circumstances within within the country 281 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.679 as well. So I understand that little bit of a 282 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:01.159 pushback from the from the sea yels and chairs of 283 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.600 the of the Super League when it comes to this, 284 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:08.960 just because it's an RL expertise doesn't mean it's necessarily 285 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.320 going to translate into British expertise. 286 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:14.279 Yeah, I just want to push back a little bit 287 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.879 on that thinking. And I do agree with you in part. 288 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:22.759 But and yeah, I had this conversation with someone yesterday like, 289 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.000 I don't know who's advising the NRL on what rugby 290 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.519 league is like in the UK, because yet there may 291 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:31.519 be some assumptions being made. I'd imagine they would reach 292 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.080 out to people who have worked in Super League who 293 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.120 either you know, have whether it be running clubs at 294 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:41.600 the RFL, in the media, players, coaches. You know, there 295 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:44.840 are so many, many, many people in Australia who have 296 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:47.360 that or have worked in England. It is a very 297 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:50.960 different sports market, but there's this kind of perception, you know, 298 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:55.360 football is massive and why bother competing and all this. No, 299 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.039 there's no argument football in England is like a religion. 300 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:01.000 It is massive, it's everywhere, But you don't need to 301 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.960 compete with football. You don't have the aim here is 302 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:07.000 not to beat football. I think if we were second, 303 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.519 that would be huge. At the moment nationally we're probably 304 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:13.599 fifth or sixth. If that's went so far from it 305 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:17.359 and it really annoys me is thinking, oh, well, you know, 306 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:19.079 got to compete with the Premier League and the Champions 307 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.640 League and the Championship and League one, League two non leagues. 308 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.000 But that's all great. Like if rugby league. 309 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:28.079 Was the second sport or the third sport even though 310 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:30.240 it could be the fourth spoard in some markets in 311 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:33.680 and I'm talking city markets in England, so that'd be huge. 312 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.559 You mentioned London, like where does the London sit? So 313 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.920 rugby union massively ahead of it, cricket massively ahead of it. 314 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.799 I would say boxing even though it's not a direct comparison. 315 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:44.599 Is it's not a league season, but you know boxing 316 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.960 will get one hundred thousand people at Wembley. 317 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:49.039 Darts. 318 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.720 You know basketball's got a national competition. I know the 319 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.480 attendances aren't massive, but exists ice hockey. You know, I 320 00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.920 live close to Sheffield. The Sheffield Eagles be fifth best 321 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.519 if that rugby union, which doesn't even have it, has 322 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:06.559 lower you know fifth sixth division teams get bigger crowds 323 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:08.880 than the Eagles do and pay more money for the players. 324 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.880 Are Sockey gets bigger basketball, So there's few markets and 325 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:16.000 I would say Leeds is one. The Rhinos get less 326 00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:18.319 than Legion and I do, but they're a big club. 327 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.400 And Wigan I don't know exactly what we're going athletic get, 328 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:24.319 but you know they're competing there, but they don't need 329 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:27.759 to be bigger than football. That's do you know what 330 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:28.640 I mean? Like that's the. 331 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:31.799 Yeah, And I never I never suggested that, No. 332 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.119 Not you, but I see it on social media all 333 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:39.160 the time and that's they also think And Paul Kadeker 334 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:41.119 said this that the NRL is the premier League of 335 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:42.720 Australia and that's complete nonsense. 336 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.680 It's not nowhere near as dominant. 337 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:48.599 No, I want to keep drilling down on this expertise, 338 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:51.759 right because it doesn't matter. It's it's a bit similar, 339 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:56.359 I think to one coach could work with Castleford and 340 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:58.839 work fantastically and then go on coach Wigan and not 341 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:04.359 work as fantastic. The same coach, the same expertise, but yeah, 342 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:07.960 exactly exactly, And that's the analogy of what to use. 343 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:16.880 Jason from Oki is a listener and he gave me 344 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:20.480 two great questions this afternoon that I think are relevant 345 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.000 to this point where we're at right now, because I 346 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:27.759 want to focus on this word NRL expertise. His question 347 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.200 was the NRL has just locked in a record right 348 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.799 steal while expanding with Perth and P and G, a 349 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:38.599 move already raising real concerns about diluting Australia's talent pool 350 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:42.599 the state, the same long standing issue Super League faces, 351 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:47.480 yet it's already tabled a formal offer seeking significant influence 352 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:50.960 over the UK game. Do you think the ar L 353 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:53.920 c under the land is actually has its house in 354 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.440 order and the bandwidth for this and how transparent have 355 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:00.000 they been about what it really means for Super League 356 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:01.200 in their broader plans. 357 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.720 Yeah, I mean that's that's a really good question. I 358 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:08.240 think I spoke. 359 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.440 To someone senior in the game here the other day 360 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:11.359 and they made a. 361 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:12.400 Really interesting point. 362 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:15.640 The rugby league tragic, so obviously me and you and 363 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.319 many thousands of other people they would look at, you know, 364 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:21.319 a second rate Queensland cup player or a second rate 365 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.680 and he's so well as cup player coming out of 366 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.839 Super big and say, oh, well, you know, the talent has. 367 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:26.559 Dropped and whatever. 368 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.640 But if you're just the average fan or the casual fan, 369 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.519 you don't really care or probably know that so and 370 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:35.240 so hasn't played fifty games for the South or one 371 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.079 hundred games for the Broncos. Like they probably don't understand 372 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:40.680 the difference, as long as that player is doing a 373 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.119 good job, you know. The start power thing I think 374 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:47.759 is well, it doesn't matter on some level. I don't 375 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:52.440 think it necessarily translates to everything. So I think that's 376 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:54.680 one way to look at it. But yeah, with all 377 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:58.240 these new clubs, we do need to increase participation, we 378 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.480 do need to increase pathways. But I just want to 379 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:02.519 circle back a little bit to the NRL deal thing. 380 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:05.920 The other way of looking at is, Okay, the offer 381 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:08.200 is not the offers low and it's not what super 382 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.839 League wants. What if they're not this back and I'm 383 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:14.200 not saying that offer, but if they're not back a partnership, 384 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.319 what is the playing b league? 385 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:18.039 What do we do next? What? What? 386 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:21.839 What? What opportunity do we have in the future, Like I. 387 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:25.839 Think Nigel Nigel would at all they think they've got 388 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:28.880 the answers don't they. So that's what they say is 389 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:29.839 a plumb but they. 390 00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:31.079 Don't have the answers to leave that. 391 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:34.759 I mean, that's you know, someone someone said that this 392 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:37.200 to me the other day, and it is quite hilarious. 393 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:40.759 Niger Wood, who was paid off by the game years ago, 394 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:42.640 it's back running the game. 395 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.119 Ralph River, who was paid off by the game years ago, 396 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:46.880 he's back running a club. 397 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.000 Rob Hicks, who was you know, left the RFL. I 398 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:52.720 don't know whether he got a path or not, but anyhow, 399 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.079 I was now back center RFL. Were there, you know, 400 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.559 some of the key people in charge of this decision 401 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.000