1 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: What's going on. Thank you so much for listening to 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,640 this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon 3 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:12,519 to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,719 want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,239 my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,640 go to dpeakclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,160 subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,719 smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,079 your support. I have some callers waiting at James and Tony. 10 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:35,439 I will get you guys. Also, the phone number is 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,640 also the WBT text line driven by Liberty Buick GMC, 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,520 so you can text there. Last hour, we were going 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,920 over the new initiative and the resuscitation of an old 14 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:53,600 initiative to basically enforce law. Yeah in center city Charlotte, 15 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,880 they're going to be putting more cops on the streets 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,840 and they are actually going to strictly in force laws 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,920 that are sort of like public nuisance laws, you know, 18 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:08,159 that are on the books. But apparently we have inadvertently 19 00:01:08,359 --> 00:01:11,959 given too much grace and not that this was an 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,400 intentional decision for the last five or six years or 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,599 anything like that, but now we're going to course correct. 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,920 I welcome the course correction, but I also would like 23 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,799 to see some people offer some apologies for advocating the 24 00:01:25,879 --> 00:01:29,040 policies that led us to this place where, for example, 25 00:01:29,159 --> 00:01:32,480 the Uptown murder count is now two hundred percent higher 26 00:01:32,519 --> 00:01:35,040 than it was last year. And maybe you could offer 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,359 an apology to the victims' families or the victims in 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,359 all of the other violent crimes that have occurred in 29 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,400 the center city that have spiked over the last year 30 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,040 because of the court system. And by the way, I 31 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,439 like you people are saying this on the text line. 32 00:01:52,519 --> 00:01:54,799 It's not new to me because I've been saying it 33 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,480 to you for the last month and a half, which 34 00:01:57,519 --> 00:02:00,879 is the police are making arrests. The problem is the 35 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,719 court system. The problem is the guidelines that the judges 36 00:02:05,079 --> 00:02:10,240 have issued for the bail and the magistrates who are 37 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,240 following those guidelines and letting people out. I also found 38 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:20,360 out today from Cedar posts he does a blog. He's 39 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,000 been a longtime Charlotte blogger, and he pointed out that 40 00:02:24,599 --> 00:02:29,879 apparently the Mecklimberg County inmate records get wiped after two years, 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,759 So if you're trying to find out if somebody's got 42 00:02:32,759 --> 00:02:35,479 a rap sheet that goes back a decade, you can't. 43 00:02:36,719 --> 00:02:40,800 I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for why Gary 44 00:02:40,879 --> 00:02:44,080 not my fault McFadden would do that as sheriff. Probably 45 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,039 it happened before his time. He had nothing to do 46 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,120 with it at all. Maybe it's a server space issue, 47 00:02:48,199 --> 00:02:51,800 you know, it's just a it's a memory capacity deal 48 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,840 on the tech side. Maybe. But it also makes it 49 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,159 difficult to know, if you're a citizen or a journalist, 50 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,800 whether somebody who has been arrested, you know, forty times 51 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,360 over the last five years, has actually been arrested that 52 00:03:07,439 --> 00:03:10,319 many times over five years if you're if you're you know, 53 00:03:10,479 --> 00:03:14,919 artificially wiping the records. So it's only the most recent 54 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,719 two years. Is that that grace that we've inadvertently given. 55 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,439 All right, let's go over to the phones here and 56 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,879 chat with James. Hello, James, welcome to the program. 57 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 2: Hey, you were reading a listing of basically what are 58 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:37,000 nuisance laws? Yes, okay, Now, I worked for the sheriff 59 00:03:37,039 --> 00:03:39,840 for a number of years and if people got arrested 60 00:03:39,879 --> 00:03:45,280 on those almost every time, and this includes our frequent 61 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:50,120 flyers and our uh well for lack of a better term, 62 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,439 our our drunks and winos, uh, you know, the panhandlers 63 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,120 and the rest of the crowd. They would get arrested, 64 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,479 they wouldn't get out because they couldn't, you know, they 65 00:04:03,479 --> 00:04:05,360 couldn't make a five dollar bond, a litt alone, a 66 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,039 five hundred dollars bond. And then they go in front 67 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,599 of a judge. Within twenty four or forty eight hours, 68 00:04:10,719 --> 00:04:15,199 he give them time serving, maybe back out on the street. Yeah, 69 00:04:15,199 --> 00:04:19,240 that's been going on for as long as I can remember. 70 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: Right, But they're off the street for twenty four hours. 71 00:04:23,879 --> 00:04:26,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they turn around and do exactly the 72 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,279 same thing all over again. Yeah, so nobody, nobody ever 73 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:32,040 puts them in jail for any other length of time. 74 00:04:33,319 --> 00:04:35,319 Speaker 1: Right, Well, but they're off the at least they're off 75 00:04:35,319 --> 00:04:37,639 the street. So again, this is a two This is 76 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,040 a two faceted problem. Right, You've got the arrests, and 77 00:04:41,079 --> 00:04:44,160 then you have the judicial system. And if you have 78 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,199 and so if you're trying to if you're trying to 79 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,759 create a safer environment for law abiding citizens in Uptown 80 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,480 and you have a broken court system, that's not that's 81 00:04:54,519 --> 00:04:57,759 not putting people away, right, that they're not doing their job. 82 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,480 Then yeah, you're relying on police to make the arrests. 83 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,199 And at least then you're gonna you're gonna take them 84 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,600 off the street for a certain amount of time. And yeah, 85 00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:11,439 they're frequent fires, they're gonna they're gonna be publicly disorderly, 86 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,680 they're gonna be publicly intoxicated. They're gonna do it again. Yeah, 87 00:05:14,759 --> 00:05:16,920 and then you come up and send them back over 88 00:05:16,959 --> 00:05:19,040 to the jail, and yes, they're gonna stay there for 89 00:05:19,079 --> 00:05:21,399 a couple hours, maybe a day, and yes they're gonna 90 00:05:21,399 --> 00:05:23,160 be back out on the street, and yes they're going 91 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,079 to reoffend. But until the court system shapes up, I 92 00:05:27,079 --> 00:05:29,279 don't know any other thing to do here. 93 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: Well, the judges, for as long as I can remember, 94 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,639 in the twenty sixth Judicial District, which is Mecklenburg County, 95 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:42,199 they public nuisance laws. They don't do anything with the 96 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,959 people except let them back out. And even if the 97 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,279 guy ends up going over to mental health because he's 98 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,399 you know, as the one gentleman that I was listening 99 00:05:52,399 --> 00:05:54,759 to said about the lackos that you see down down, 100 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,800 usually he's back out on the street. Within twenty four 101 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,079 to forty eight hours, right, because they determine he's not 102 00:06:02,199 --> 00:06:05,040 a danger to himself or the public, and he's back 103 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,879 out on the street, and of course, at worst, mental 104 00:06:09,879 --> 00:06:15,920 health puts him on an outpatient treatment but outpatient treatment 105 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,319 systems don't function. The guy doesn't take his meds when 106 00:06:19,319 --> 00:06:21,279 he's back out on the street, so he ends up 107 00:06:21,759 --> 00:06:25,800 dealing with the police again. And now that revolving doors starts, right. 108 00:06:26,079 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I do not disagree with you at all, 109 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,040 but I don't are you saying that's an argument not 110 00:06:32,199 --> 00:06:34,279 to put more police out there patrolling. 111 00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:39,519 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, the Charlotte Police Department has got 112 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,800 a major issue with not enough officers. And from the 113 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,480 time they apply until the time that they get out 114 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:52,279 of the academy is something like eighteen months. So just 115 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,360 to get and most one of the big problems with 116 00:06:56,439 --> 00:06:59,279 the City of Charlotte is people don't want to go 117 00:06:59,319 --> 00:07:02,040 to work for the City Charlotte. Yeah, because they don't 118 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,199 want to work for the city council and the mayor. 119 00:07:05,439 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: Now I get it, but I'm trying to find a 120 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:13,199 solution with the circumstances we are in. And so given 121 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:16,560 the reality of where we are, they're saying they're going 122 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,240 to put more cops in Uptown and in South End. 123 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,120 They're going to beef up police presence. 124 00:07:22,199 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: And I say, good, yeah, except they're taking them away 125 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:26,759 from someplace else. 126 00:07:26,879 --> 00:07:27,519 Speaker 1: They say, they're not. 127 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 2: Where are they going to get the bodies because they 128 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:31,360 don't have them. 129 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,519 Speaker 1: That's well, I mean, that's you saying that. They say. 130 00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:38,199 They say they're not drawing these officers out of other areas. Now, 131 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,040 maybe that turns out to be a lie, but that's 132 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:40,720 what they have said. 133 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,399 Speaker 2: Okay. Well, to be perfectly frank and honest with you, 134 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,120 I do from looking at it from the years that 135 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:51,439 I worked and the people that I know in both 136 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,160 in the agencies, I don't think you're being told the truth. 137 00:07:56,319 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: Yeah that's possible. That's possible, but I don't know that 138 00:07:59,519 --> 00:08:01,720 to be I don't know it either way. So, James, 139 00:08:01,759 --> 00:08:05,600 I appreciate the call. Again, I'm not saying this is 140 00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:09,399 the fix. I've never said that. In fact, I keep 141 00:08:09,439 --> 00:08:13,120 saying the problem is the court system. I keep saying that. 142 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,800 So I don't understand, like why, And I'm not saying 143 00:08:16,839 --> 00:08:19,839 this about James, but like there are people on the 144 00:08:19,839 --> 00:08:22,160 text line that are saying, like, it's not the cops 145 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,959 it's the court system. Like I know, I've been saying that. 146 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,000 I've been saying that to you for like two months, 147 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,639 so longer than that, actually, So I agree. That is 148 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,519 a separate part of the criminal justice system though, right, 149 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,159 that's the court system. The first thing is law enforcement. 150 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:46,480 So I'm okay with not more than okay. I support 151 00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:51,360 them going after these public nuisance crimes, cracking down on 152 00:08:51,399 --> 00:08:54,440 this quality of life stuff. You got people that live uptown, 153 00:08:54,799 --> 00:08:57,879 they have they pay their taxes, they're law abiding. They 154 00:08:57,879 --> 00:09:01,080 should not have to be walking over er you know, 155 00:09:01,159 --> 00:09:03,879 people lying on the sidewalk in front of their door, 156 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,360 defecating on their front steps, like that should not be acceptable, right, 157 00:09:09,039 --> 00:09:13,879 And the first step there is enforcing the law, which 158 00:09:13,919 --> 00:09:16,399 means you got to have a cop interact with that person. 159 00:09:17,919 --> 00:09:20,960 And so I'm okay, like I support I support the 160 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,399 Crown initiative and the E do the entertainment district thing. Yeah, 161 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,879 put more cops out there. It will act as a 162 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,840 deterrent for some. You know, stories are powerful. They help 163 00:09:30,879 --> 00:09:34,600 us make sense of things, to understand experiences. Stories connect 164 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,559 us to the people of our past while transcending generations. 165 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,039 They help us process the meaning of life. And our 166 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,320 stories are told through images and videos. Preserve your stories 167 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,519 with Creative Video started in nineteen ninety seven and Mint Hill, 168 00:09:47,639 --> 00:09:50,279 North Carolina. It was the first company to provide this 169 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:54,639 valuable service, converting images, photos and videos into high quality 170 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,720 produced slide shows, videos and albums. The trusted, talented and 171 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:01,440 dedicated team at Create Video will go over all of 172 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,440 the details with you to create a perfect project. Satisfaction guaranteed. 173 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,559 Drop them off in person or mail them. They'll be 174 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,879 ready in a week or two. Memorial videos for your 175 00:10:09,879 --> 00:10:15,679 loved ones, videos for rehearsal, dinners, weddings, graduations, Christmas, family vacations, birthdays, 176 00:10:15,759 --> 00:10:19,600 or just your family stories all told through images. That's 177 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,919 what your photos and videos are. They are your life 178 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,639 told through the eyes of everyone around you and all 179 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,840 who came before you, and they will tell others to 180 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,240 come who you are. Visit creative video dot com. I 181 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,759 have a message on the Twitter machine from RUSS. Additional 182 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:39,600 policing and enforcement is a great first step, but as 183 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,600 you said, it's judicial and mental health reform that'll make 184 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,480 the biggest impact. I read somewhere years ago that something 185 00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:47,600 like close to thirty percent of all violent crimes were 186 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,000 committed by people who were out on bail, ankle monitors, 187 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,159 early release, etc. I've also heard from some officers that 188 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,559 depending on where they patrol, they can spend up to 189 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,799 a third of their time on just a handful of 190 00:10:59,799 --> 00:11:03,840 real offenders. Right, So one of the things I would do. 191 00:11:04,879 --> 00:11:06,879 I still do it on occasion, but when I was 192 00:11:06,879 --> 00:11:08,840 a reporter, I would do this a lot. And I 193 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,799 would ask if I'm interviewing somebody about a policy that 194 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,519 they're proposing or something, I would ask them to walk 195 00:11:14,519 --> 00:11:18,600 me through it, like lay it out for me, walk 196 00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:21,600 me through, like how this actually works in real life, 197 00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:25,039 you know. So if we take it as a given 198 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:30,120 that the courts being completely controlled by Democrats infected with 199 00:11:30,159 --> 00:11:35,879 this you know, this suicidal empathy impulse and this this 200 00:11:36,039 --> 00:11:39,559 mind virus where like they can't hold people accountable and 201 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,000 they're going to let everybody out, right, So assume that 202 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:47,720 that is not changing what can be done to try 203 00:11:47,759 --> 00:11:54,799 to minimize harm for citizens in Charlotte. And I think that, yeah, 204 00:11:55,159 --> 00:11:58,559 putting more cops into the center city where crime has 205 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:04,519 been spiking over the last that you make more arrests. Oh, 206 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,039 but they're gonna get out, Yes, I know, I agree 207 00:12:08,039 --> 00:12:10,159 that is going to happen. They're going to then just 208 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,320 get released right back out, and then they're going to 209 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,200 get arrested again, and then they're gonna get released and 210 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,759 then arrested and released and arrested and released. I get it, 211 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:25,159 I agree, But in the time that they are spending 212 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,440 interacting with that law enforcement officer, then being put into 213 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,120 the cruiser, taken to the jail, processed, and then before 214 00:12:33,159 --> 00:12:35,480 they get released, however long that is, they are no 215 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,639 longer out on the street. So rather than being on 216 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,000 the street twenty four hours in a day, they may 217 00:12:42,039 --> 00:12:47,960 only be on the street for eighteen hours. That's end improvement, 218 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:52,279 you know. Look, I'm trying to take a win anywhere 219 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,960 I can get it, Okay, I'm like, if we can 220 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,399 get six hours of rest, but six hours of relief 221 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,240 a day from the repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat offenders, get 222 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,200 them off the street for a couple of hours, that's 223 00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:12,240 better than not off the street at all, you know. 224 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,679 Regarding the diversion of the officers, this was covered, I 225 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,840 told you. According to CMPD, Major Jene Limb told Queen 226 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,159 City News, policing in other areas will not be negatively 227 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,000 affected when we set a recruit class. We disseminate the 228 00:13:31,039 --> 00:13:34,679 graduating class not just in the Central Division, but across 229 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,159 all thirteen. So there's really I would push back against 230 00:13:39,159 --> 00:13:41,759 that to say that we spread that love if you 231 00:13:41,799 --> 00:13:47,000 will across our patrol division. Again, that may not occur. 232 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,799 That could be a lie. I don't know, I have 233 00:13:49,879 --> 00:13:51,960 no evidence of it. All I'm saying is, this is 234 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,759 what the police department is telling us, is that they're 235 00:13:55,759 --> 00:14:00,759 not going to be moving officers from other districts into 236 00:14:00,879 --> 00:14:06,679 Uptown in order to create this Crown initiative. I'm not 237 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,879 saying I believe it. I'm not saying I don't believe it. 238 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,919 I'm just telling you that's what they said, and hopefully 239 00:14:12,759 --> 00:14:15,759 they're not lying. Right, all right, let me jump over 240 00:14:15,799 --> 00:14:20,679 and get Lisa on the program. Hello Lisa, Hello, mister Kroner. 241 00:14:21,679 --> 00:14:26,399 Speaker 3: I had a couple of points. I agree with you 242 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,840 about having more police presence downtown being a good thing. 243 00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:33,840 I mean, for one thing, somebody who's going to choose 244 00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:36,799 to lay around downtown has got a problem with some 245 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,320 type an attitude that's not acceptable. So I mean that's 246 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,399 one reason to have more police. But I also want 247 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,399 to add that I don't know if this effects that 248 00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:48,879 or not. But I was a volunteer in the big 249 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,360 jail downtown. This has been like ten or twelve years 250 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,240 ago in the Chaplain's office, and I learned at that 251 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,480 point that they had they were overbooked. In other words, 252 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,120 there were people that were sleeping on the floor at 253 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,000 that point. We may need we may need more jail space. 254 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,919 And then there's the mental health issue. I worked at 255 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,200 this hospital in Raleigh when I was a student and 256 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,480 after that, and these hospitals have been closed down. Dix 257 00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:19,679 is no longer there. Those people beginning about the mid 258 00:15:19,759 --> 00:15:23,360 nineteen seventies were turned out onto the streets, and now 259 00:15:23,399 --> 00:15:26,879 they've got a small one in Charlotte. But I mean, 260 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,799 even having it here may impact the fact that we 261 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,960 have more mental health people around, but they largely were 262 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,919 put out onto the streets. Then I want to add 263 00:15:35,919 --> 00:15:39,120 that there's some services that are downtown, like crisis assistance. 264 00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:43,679 There's a bus transit center where people might be, you know, 265 00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:45,960 come downtown they otherwise wouldn't. 266 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:46,759 Speaker 2: That doesn't say they. 267 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 3: Should be laying around on the park benches or whatever. 268 00:15:50,679 --> 00:15:53,320 And then affordable housing is another issue, because they've torn 269 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,960 down a lot of the cheaper in housing and replaced 270 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,360 it with condominiums across the city. And I think this 271 00:15:58,679 --> 00:16:01,159 contributes to I don't know how you get a handle 272 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,799 on all those different issues. You might increase the jail 273 00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:06,120 spice for one thing, and the police. 274 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, there are It's a multifaceted problem. It's going 275 00:16:09,879 --> 00:16:13,960 to take a lot of different initiatives to get at it, 276 00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:17,320 no doubt about Yeah, no doubt about it. In fact, 277 00:16:17,399 --> 00:16:19,759 I have a piece here from the New York Times 278 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,000 about the closing of the institutions. I'm going to get 279 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,200 to that after the news. At least I appreciate the call. 280 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,200 Thank you, all right, take care. Yeah. The headline on 281 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,440 the article is how release of mental patience began. It 282 00:16:34,559 --> 00:16:40,639 is from the New York Times, October thirtieth, nineteen eighty four. 283 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,600 So when I was a kid, my grandpa died with Alzheimer's, 284 00:16:44,639 --> 00:16:46,799 and before he died, my mom and my dad took 285 00:16:46,879 --> 00:16:49,120 care of him as he got worse. Forty years ago, 286 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,279 there were no treatments and not much support for caregivers 287 00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:54,879 and family. But things are different today because of the 288 00:16:54,919 --> 00:16:58,080 work of so many people, including the Alzheimer's Association of 289 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,720 Western Carolina. It's a great organization with awesome people with 290 00:17:01,879 --> 00:17:04,640 huge hearts. I've been a supporter for twenty five years. 291 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,000 This cause means a lot to me. I participate in 292 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:10,880 the annual Walk to end Alzheimer's and I'm leading a 293 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,079 Charlotte team again this year and it's called once again 294 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,559 Pete's Pack. You can sign up and you can join 295 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:19,440 the team and walk with us. It's on October eighteenth, 296 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,480 that truest field. Sign up at alz dot org slash 297 00:17:23,559 --> 00:17:25,960 Walk and then you can search for my team name 298 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,480 Pete's Pack. There's also a link at thepetepod dot com. 299 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:32,240 There's also a link in the description of this podcast. Also, 300 00:17:32,599 --> 00:17:35,920 I'll be am seeing the Gastonia Walk on October eleventh, 301 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,759 and so you can make a team and join that 302 00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:40,119 one too, or make a donation and help me hit 303 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,400 my goal of five thousand dollars. If you do, I 304 00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:44,880 really appreciate it. There are a bunch of other walks 305 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,599 all over the Carolinas. You can go to alz dot 306 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,680 org slash walk for all the dates and locations. We're 307 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,559 closer than ever to stopping Alzheimer's. Can you help us 308 00:17:53,559 --> 00:17:55,920 get there? Will you walk with me for a different future? 309 00:17:56,079 --> 00:17:59,720 For families for more time for treatments. This is why 310 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,279 we New York Times headline how release of mental patients began. 311 00:18:05,279 --> 00:18:09,079 It's a piece by Richard Lyons from nineteen eighty four. 312 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,279 The policy that led to the release of most of 313 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:15,039 the nation's mentally ill patients from the hospital to the 314 00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:19,200 community is now widely regarded as a major policy failure. 315 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,160 Sweeping critiques of the policy, notably the recent report of 316 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:29,480 the American Psychiatric Association, have spread the blame everywhere, faulting politicians, 317 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:35,279 civil libertarian lawyers as well as psychiatrists, but who specifically 318 00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:38,359 played some of the more important roles in the formation 319 00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:43,119 of this ill fated policy. What motivated these influential people 320 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,119 and what lessons are to be learned. The detailed picture 321 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,759 has emerged from a series of interviews into review of 322 00:18:49,839 --> 00:18:55,519 public records, research reports, and institutional recommendations. The picture is 323 00:18:55,559 --> 00:19:00,000 one of cost conscious policymakers who were quick to bos 324 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:06,400 optimistic projections that were in some instances buttressed by misinformation 325 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:13,799 and by a willingness to suspend skepticism. I am struck 326 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:19,160 just at the way this story is written and how 327 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,920 we have devolved as a society. Like you would not 328 00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:28,200 read this kind of writing in the New York Times nowadays. 329 00:19:28,279 --> 00:19:32,359 Just like the words like buttressed, you know, they just 330 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,000 wouldn't use that word anymore. Many of the psychiatrists involved 331 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:40,559 as practitioners and policymakers in the nineteen fifties and sixties 332 00:19:41,319 --> 00:19:46,359 said in the interviews that heavy responsibility lay on a 333 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:54,839 sometimes neglected aspect of the problem, the over reliance on drugs. 334 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:00,240 Drugs bad, Okay. The record show that the politicians were 335 00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:03,640 dogged by the image and financial problems posed by the 336 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,480 state hospitals, and that the scientific and medical establishment sold 337 00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:11,880 Congress and the state legislatures a quick fix for a 338 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:17,920 complicated problem that was bought site unseen. Right. So it's 339 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,799 a fascinating article. It's very very lengthy. I'm not going 340 00:20:20,839 --> 00:20:22,240 to give you obviously, I'm going to read the whole 341 00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:25,319 thing here, just giving you the highlights. But this idea 342 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,720 that the psychiatric world was like, we got these new drugs, 343 00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:32,119 and these new drugs can do wonders. Just give these 344 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,160 people the pills, give them the drugs, and then we 345 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,000 can close down all the institutions. Those things are inhumane. 346 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000 Did you see Jack Nicholson and one flow over the 347 00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:44,960 cuckoo's nest, and we can't have that, you know. Doctor 348 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:48,400 Robert Felix, who was then director of the National Institute 349 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,960 of Mental Health, a major figure in the shift to 350 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:57,279 community centers, says, now, upon reflection, quote, many of those 351 00:20:57,319 --> 00:21:01,799 patients who left the state hospitals never should have done so. 352 00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:05,960 We psychiatrists saw too much of the old snake pit, 353 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,119 saw too many people who shouldn't have been there, and 354 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,880 we over reacted. The result is not what we intended, 355 00:21:14,079 --> 00:21:17,200 and perhaps we didn't ask the questions that should have 356 00:21:17,279 --> 00:21:21,160 been asked when developing a new concept. But psychiatrists are 357 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:27,759 human too, and we tried our hardest. Trust the experts, 358 00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:34,200 they say, right. Doctor John Talbot, president of the American 359 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,799 Psychiatric Association, quote, the psychiatrists involved in the policy making 360 00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:44,200 at that time certainly oversold community treatment, and our credibility 361 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,000 today is probably damaged because of it. He said. The 362 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,680 policies were quote based partly on wishful thinking, partly on 363 00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:56,880 the enormousness of the problem and the lack of a 364 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:02,039 silver bullet to resolve it. The original policy changes were 365 00:22:02,079 --> 00:22:04,920 backed at the time by scores of national professional and 366 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:11,440 philanthropic organizations, as well as several hundred people prominent in medicine, academia, 367 00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:18,319 and politics. The belief then was widespread that the same 368 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,720 scientific researchers who had conjured up antibiotics and vaccines during 369 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,759 the outburst of medical discovery in the fifties and sixties 370 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:32,759 had also developed penicillins to cure psychoses and thus revolutionize 371 00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:39,400 the treatment of the mentally ill. And also, so you 372 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,400 have that going on, but at the same time you 373 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,359 have growing economic and political liability faced by state lawmakers. 374 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,759 There was a ton of tax revenue being used to 375 00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:56,079 support state mental hospitals, and the institutions themselves were increasingly 376 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,319 thought of as snake pits or facilities that few people 377 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,880 even wanted. There was a thing called the Joint Commission 378 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,400 on Mental Illness and Health. This was an independent body 379 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,920 that was set up by Congress in nineteen fifty five. 380 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,839 One of the vice president of this commission, doctor M. 381 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:22,240 Brewster Smith from the University of California, a psychologist, said, 382 00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:25,920 extravagant claims were made for the benefits of shifting from 383 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,200 state hospitals to community clinics. See so you also have 384 00:23:30,279 --> 00:23:33,559 this ability of the law state lawmakers to offload the 385 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,200 costs onto the local jurisdictions with these community centers, community 386 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,240 health because they're facing you know, any time there was 387 00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:45,839 any kind of abuse that occurred at a mental institution, 388 00:23:46,279 --> 00:23:49,240 you had the negative publicity, right, you had the bad 389 00:23:49,319 --> 00:23:51,400 pr and then you have the media running to the 390 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,640 lawmakers saying, what are you going to do about it? 391 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,359 You know, something needs to be done, we need new laws, which, 392 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,960 by the way, media does that in no small part 393 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,039 because if they can get laws changed, they win awards. 394 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:11,799 Reporters win awards. It's true. Okay, you identify a problem 395 00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:16,759 that's out there, usually after some terrible case, you then agitate, 396 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,599 you hold people accountable. You go to politicians, you stick 397 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,440 a microphone in their face and you say, what are 398 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,039 you going to do about this? The politician, recognizing that 399 00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:28,880 this is an opportunity for them to score some points 400 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,799 while doing some damage control, they will then introduce some 401 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,599 sort of a bill. We're going to crack down on this. 402 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,440 We're going to offer this kind of program, this service 403 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,720 to address this problem, whatever, maybe cut some ribbons with 404 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:45,920 the ridiculously oversized scissors or something. And then the media, 405 00:24:46,759 --> 00:24:49,559 whoever was that, you know, was leading the charge on 406 00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:52,759 this initiative, on the coverage. They will then submit that 407 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,880 coverage to their industry awards makers and they will win 408 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,480 awards for it, and then that puffs up there, resume 409 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,000 and they can move on to a bigger market. That's 410 00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:07,119 the dynamic to this day. That's what occurs. Here's a 411 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,000 great idea. How about making an escape to a really 412 00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:13,279 special and secluded getaway in western North Carolina. Just a 413 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,960 quick drive up the mountain and Cabins of Asheville is 414 00:25:16,079 --> 00:25:19,920 your connection. Whether you're celebrating an anniversary, a honeymoon, maybe 415 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,279 you want to plan a memorable proposal, or get family 416 00:25:22,319 --> 00:25:25,000 and friends together for a big old reunion. Cabins of 417 00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:27,839 Asheville has the ideal spot for you where you can 418 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,079 reconnect with your loved ones and the things that truly matter. 419 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,319 Nestled within the breath taking fourteen thousand acres of the 420 00:25:34,319 --> 00:25:38,200 Pisga National Forest, their cabins offer a serene escape in 421 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,000 the heart of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Centrally located between 422 00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:43,920 Asheville and the entrance of the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. 423 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,160 It's the perfect balance of seclusion and proximity to all 424 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,920 the local attractions, with hot tubs, fireplaces, air conditioning, smart TVs, 425 00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:56,680 Wi Fi, grills, outdoor tables, and your own private covered porch. 426 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,000 Choose from thirteen cabins, six cottages, two villas, and a 427 00:26:01,039 --> 00:26:05,119 great lodge with eleven king sized bedrooms. Cabins of Ashville 428 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,319 has the ideal spot for you for any occasion, and 429 00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:11,839 they have pet friendly accommodations. Call her text eight two 430 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,240 eight three six seven seventy sixty eight or check out 431 00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:17,640 all there is to offer at Cabins of Aashville dot 432 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,720 com and make memories that'll last a lifetime. All right, 433 00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:24,000 let me jump over and chat with Joe. Hello, Joe, 434 00:26:24,039 --> 00:26:24,880 welcome to the show. 435 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 4: Hey Pete, thank you, Thank Macall. Sure, just kind a 436 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,119 point I wanted to bring up. I hear filials and 437 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:41,799 Josh Stein bring up this really subject about mental health, 438 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,920 all the mental health of the of these career criminal thugs. 439 00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 2: My question is, what. 440 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 4: About the mental health of the victims' families and the 441 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,640 victims themselves. Where's the help coming from the state and 442 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:03,839 the city For like the elderly gentleman, the veteran that 443 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,000 was nearly beaten to death on the city bus. 444 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:11,519 Speaker 1: Left paralyzed, Yeah, he was left paralyzed from the neck 445 00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:14,279 down exactly exactly. 446 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 4: So is there any help being offered by by Josh 447 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,799 and by to to the families of these victims? Uh? 448 00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:26,440 And and and then I heard again today that there 449 00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:31,279 was a man that was abusing animals. He's put in 450 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:36,400 jail with no bonds, but yet we have career criminals 451 00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:39,119 that are just basically given a get out of jail 452 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,559 free card. I'm just not understanding how how things are 453 00:27:43,599 --> 00:27:44,079 being run. 454 00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:47,519 Speaker 1: Well, it's uh, yeah, I mean the abuse of animals 455 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,720 usually is a uh I mean that fits the profile 456 00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:54,039 of a future serial killer, you know, depending on the 457 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:54,599 level of the. 458 00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:55,799 Speaker 4: Books, he should be in jail. 459 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: Agree with that, but yeah, it does. It does speak 460 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,480 to the prioritization of victims in our system. It's sort 461 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:08,920 of like this guy, this leftist streamer guy named Hassan Piker, 462 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,680 who apparently like he does these seven eight hour long 463 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,759 streams every single day, and in the background, he's got 464 00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:19,039 his dog that's just sitting on this little elevated bed 465 00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:21,599 and the dog doesn't move for seven or eight hours. 466 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,119 And we finally found out this week how he does 467 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,920 that is he has a shock caller, and he shocks 468 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,279 the dog anytime it tries to get off that platform. 469 00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:33,440 And this caused the outrage. Right, the guy had been 470 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,440 calling for the murder and violence against conservatives. That nobody 471 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,559 cared about that, But now people are upset because he 472 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,400 shocked the dog. Right. That's that's the prioritization we have in. 473 00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 4: Our society, exactly. I just want to bring that point a. 474 00:28:50,599 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for your show, piena appreciation, all right, but I 475 00:28:52,759 --> 00:28:56,440 appreciate it. Joe, Yeah, have a great weekend. This New 476 00:28:56,519 --> 00:29:00,599 York Times article from nineteen eighty four lays out who 477 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,960 was responsible for the closing of the institutions. And you 478 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,440 had all of these different groups with different incentives. Politicians, lawmakers. 479 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,880 They didn't want the pr damage from the abuses that 480 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,799 were reported in some of these institutions. They didn't want 481 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:19,119 the costs, right, so they offloaded all of that said 482 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,160 send it out to the community centers. You had psychiatrists 483 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,400 that were like, this is the way forward. This is 484 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,799 the hot new thing. We got these drugs now that 485 00:29:27,079 --> 00:29:29,839 we're going to just you know, put people on the 486 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,559 drugs and that's going to solve the problem. Extravagant claims 487 00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:37,640 were made for the benefits of shifting from state hospitals 488 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,680 to community clinics, said doctor Brewster Smith, who was the 489 00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:45,279 vice president of the Joint Commission on Mental Illness and 490 00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:48,119 Health and Independent Bodies set up by Congress in nineteen 491 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,039 fifty five. He said the professional community made mistakes and 492 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:57,559 was overly optimistic, but the political community wanted to save money. 493 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,599 Charles Schlafer, a New New York advertising executive who served 494 00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:06,079 as secretary treasurer of this group, said that he was 495 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,480 now disgusted with the advice presented by leading psychiatrists of 496 00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:16,039 that day. He said, quote tranquilizers became the panacea for 497 00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:19,680 the mentally ill. The state programs were buying them by 498 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,640 the car load, sending the drugged patients back to the community, 499 00:30:23,839 --> 00:30:28,160 and the psychiatrists never tried to stop this. Local mental 500 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,880 health centers were going to be the greatest thing going, 501 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,680 but no one wanted to think it through. Legislation sought 502 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:41,119 to create a nationwide network of locally based mental health centers, which, 503 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:44,440 rather than large state hospitals, would be the main source 504 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,680 of treatment. The center concept was aided by federal funds 505 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,680 for four and a half years, after which it was 506 00:30:51,759 --> 00:30:56,039 hoped that the states and local governments would assume responsibility. 507 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,119 You'll never guess what happened after that. Yeah, politicians and 508 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,079 health experts were carrying out a public mandate they thought 509 00:31:05,119 --> 00:31:10,920 to abolish the abominable conditions of insane asylums. But in retrospect, 510 00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:15,559 it does seem clear that questions were not asked that 511 00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:19,160 might have been asked. In the thousands of pages of 512 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,759 testimony before congressional committees in the late nineteen fifties and 513 00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:27,400 early nineteen sixties, little doubt was ever expressed about the 514 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,960 wisdom of de institutionalization. I am reminded of the line 515 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,079 from the documentary Jurassic Park. You spend so much time 516 00:31:38,079 --> 00:31:40,680 thinking how do we do it? You never stopped to 517 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,079 think should we do it? 518 00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 4: All? 519 00:31:43,799 --> 00:31:46,039 Speaker 1: Right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so 520 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,240 much for listening. I could not do the show without 521 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,079 your support and the support of the businesses that advertise 522 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,839 on the podcast, so if you'd like, please support them 523 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,519 too and tell them you heard it here. You can 524 00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:58,240 also become a patron at my Patreon page or go 525 00:31:58,319 --> 00:32:01,720 to the Pete Callner showed Again, thank you so much 526 00:32:01,759 --> 00:32:07,200 for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.