Speaker 1: All right, you've heard of load bombs, You've heard of
Speaker 1: Sham's bombs.
Speaker 2: Have you heard of smitty bombs?
Speaker 1: Here's the question is Richard Smith is live in studio
Speaker 1: for an entire hour smitty Are you ready to drop
Speaker 1: some smitty bombs? Ye?
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of people who use that phrase, but
Speaker 4: it has a whole different context.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: Now we're not talking about that time.
Speaker 3: I don't want to get into that stuff.
Speaker 1: We're just gonna stick with basketball today and uh, the
Speaker 1: NBA trade deadline coming and going, how you doing?
Speaker 2: My friend getting to see you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great, you know this is uh.
Speaker 4: I was just talking to James Peterson a few minutes
Speaker 4: before came in the studio and he was asking me
Speaker 4: do you miss this time of year? And I said,
Speaker 4: you know, it's interesting because this time it's always in
Speaker 4: early February, and it's kind of a you know, it's
Speaker 4: a big scouting period for college and stuff and just
Speaker 4: before the All Star break and so it kind of
Speaker 4: comes at a good time work wise. But but you
Speaker 4: get all the people who are involved in these in
Speaker 4: these kinds of transactions, and all all the people on
Speaker 4: in a particular staff that are able to weigh in
Speaker 4: on them, and there's a lot of spinning your wheels
Speaker 4: and not getting anywhere because I don't know what the
Speaker 4: actual number would be, but I would guesstimate that of
Speaker 4: all the trades that are talked about and really the
Speaker 4: teams might consider in some respect, probably between two and
Speaker 4: five percent of them actually get consummated. Like the vast
Speaker 4: majority just don't happen for whatever number of reasons. And
Speaker 4: so it's always a time of year where you're doing
Speaker 4: a lot of work, a lot of film study, a
Speaker 4: lot of phone calls, a lot of digging into research,
Speaker 4: and then at the last second somebody says, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: the other team fell by, so it's out, and you're going,
Speaker 4: I just spent all this time doing such and such,
Speaker 4: you know whatever. I could have been doing something else,
Speaker 4: but that's the gig, you know. So, and that's what
Speaker 4: a lot of teams are obviously were involved in these
Speaker 4: last few weeks in the NBA.
Speaker 1: So you reference two to five percent of deals talked
Speaker 1: about actually happens, it feels like this time around that
Speaker 1: number might be higher. You know, I don't like you've
Speaker 1: been doing this forever. I've been around the league, my
Speaker 1: whole life. This feels smitty to me, like the most
Speaker 1: consequential NBA trade deadline of all time. We have thirty
Speaker 1: eight combined All Star appearances on the move, twenty combined
Speaker 1: first team All NBA appearances on the move.
Speaker 2: Would you concur with that assessment? Potentially? Look, only time
Speaker 2: will tell.
Speaker 1: You're always good to remind us of that, But this
Speaker 1: feels like, as of today, you know, a knee jerk,
Speaker 1: instant reaction, the most consequential trade deadline in pro basketball history.
Speaker 4: Well, it involves so many big names, right, and it
Speaker 4: got off to a bang last week with the Laker
Speaker 4: and Mavericks deal. But it's interesting, you know, you can
Speaker 4: contrast that all the stuff and I know you've been
Speaker 4: talking and you talked with Andy last segment about you
Speaker 4: know this, do you really believe, you know, what they're
Speaker 4: reporting out of Dallas Law, how it actually took place,
Speaker 4: was actually the deal. There's got to be something else
Speaker 4: and there's got to be some other stuff was going
Speaker 4: on or whatever. But you know, it's it's that was
Speaker 4: very different than the stuff we saw, you know, all
Speaker 4: along the last several weeks, right with Jimmy Butler in Miami,
Speaker 4: where everybody knew that the marriage was done and that
Speaker 4: he was he was gonna leave, and they were trying
Speaker 4: to get a deal for him and what have you.
Speaker 4: And you know, there's a there's a lot of different
Speaker 4: angles to it, and a lot of different people weigh
Speaker 4: in on the Butler thing and what was going on,
Speaker 4: all the drama around it. And yet the Dallas l
Speaker 4: a thing nobody knew about it until it happened. And
Speaker 4: so you can see two different divergent ways of handling
Speaker 4: these kinds of things with big name players and what
Speaker 4: the you know, it's an interesting study about you know,
Speaker 4: is there a better way to do it? Is there
Speaker 4: one way is better than the other? Is this one
Speaker 4: makes sense and that one doesn't make as much sense,
Speaker 4: or what have you? And so you can you can
Speaker 4: debate those things a long time, but but at the
Speaker 4: end of the day, an Indi team is going to
Speaker 4: do what they think makes sense for them in the
Speaker 4: business they're trying to take care of and you know,
Speaker 4: without regard to what anybody else is doing or what
Speaker 4: anybody else thinks.
Speaker 3: About the way they're handling their business.
Speaker 1: So from a jazz perspective, let's dig into what the
Speaker 1: Jazz did do, then we'll talk about what the Jazz
Speaker 1: did not do. So all in all, with the deals
Speaker 1: the Jazz made, they received five second round picks in essence,
Speaker 1: Drew you Banks, Patty Mills gone. And then the Jazz
Speaker 1: took on some smaller salary deals and they sent a
Speaker 1: lot of those players on.
Speaker 2: Denni Shrude is in Detroit. Obama has been waived. PJ.
Speaker 1: Tucker, I think ended up in Toronto after spending a
Speaker 1: minute back in Miami, and I think Jalen Hoodschafino will
Speaker 1: also be waived.
Speaker 2: So five second round picks.
Speaker 1: Then they received the twenty thirty one unprotected first round
Speaker 1: pick from Phoenix that they received in exchange for three
Speaker 1: first that they sent to the songs the least favorable
Speaker 1: of Utah, Minnesota, Cleveland. We already broke that deal down
Speaker 1: so strictly from an asset addition standpoint. And then I
Speaker 1: want to ask you about kJ Martin, because look, I
Speaker 1: think there might be a little something there. Jazz fans
Speaker 1: might remember kJ Martin because he said his career high
Speaker 1: against the Jazz twice twenty one points twenty seven points.
Speaker 1: He started forty nine games for the Rockets, a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago. Look, I'm not saying that he's some answer,
Speaker 1: but from an asset accumulation standpoint, what do you make
Speaker 1: of what the Jazz did? Then explain to our listeners
Speaker 1: what their motivations were in making these transactions.
Speaker 4: Sure, so the Jazz are in full rebuild mode, as
Speaker 4: we know, during the middle of the third year of
Speaker 4: this tear down and rebuild however you want to label it.
Speaker 4: And so they know they're not winning now, they know
Speaker 4: they're not going to win next week or next year.
Speaker 4: They're trying to develop young guys and also along the
Speaker 4: way try to get a veteran here or there they
Speaker 4: think can help them and start moving forward and start
Speaker 4: making progress. So you know, all of the moves that
Speaker 4: they were involved in were all about asset accumulation, meaning
Speaker 4: get as many draft picks as we can get as
Speaker 4: many either expiring contracts or contracts of guys that we
Speaker 4: can turn around and flip around for something else, like
Speaker 4: the PJ.
Speaker 3: Tucker deal that you knew they weren't going to keep him.
Speaker 4: I felt, and you and I discussed this last night
Speaker 4: at the Jazz game. I neither one of us felt
Speaker 4: that that they were going to hold on to Dennis
Speaker 4: Shrewder didn't make any sense, but he was a cog
Speaker 4: for them to be able to do something else.
Speaker 3: That that helped them and in terms of their long
Speaker 3: range planning.
Speaker 4: So that that's the mode that they're and every team
Speaker 4: has its own motivation spent. Some of the teams are
Speaker 4: trying to get a guy to help them, you know,
Speaker 4: maybe one more guy that helps in a rotation that
Speaker 4: can help us, you know, like the Cleveland deal today.
Speaker 3: Getting DeAndre Hunter, you know, a very good move I
Speaker 3: thought by them.
Speaker 4: I agree, he's playing very well for for Atlanta and
Speaker 4: having a nice quiet season, but playing very efficiently for them,
Speaker 4: And I'm not sure, you know, they they gave up much,
Speaker 4: you know, in terms to get someone who can help
Speaker 4: them maybe that last piece they feel, you know, can
Speaker 4: get them you know, on top or toward that mountaintop.
Speaker 4: So so that was a great move for them. So
Speaker 4: they're in that that mode of thinking. The Jazz, the
Speaker 4: Washington Wizards, or teams that are in the opposite mode
Speaker 4: of just trying to get get as many assets as
Speaker 4: they can for for future use or for other you know, movements,
Speaker 4: or to take money off their books or or whatever
Speaker 4: it is, and so every team has its own motivation,
Speaker 4: every team has a different.
Speaker 3: Way they're going about it.
Speaker 4: And then you know, nothing's been talked about, and I'm
Speaker 4: sure they'll be fallout of it going forward. But all
Speaker 4: the all the noise that was coming out of Phoenix
Speaker 4: about trying to get Jimmy Butler there didn't work out,
Speaker 4: mainly because of the Bradley Beal no trade clause. And
Speaker 4: then there was scuttle button the last several days about
Speaker 4: you know, maybe they'll move Kevin Durant, and Kevin Durant said, well,
Speaker 4: I don't want to go back to Golden State or whatever.
Speaker 4: All those things that were going on, all that drama
Speaker 4: that was going on right well, Spence, Now the dust
Speaker 4: is starting to settle on the trade deadline. Phoenix didn't
Speaker 4: do anything in that regard, so they have their three
Speaker 4: big guns still there. Booker, Durant, and Beale. Right, they
Speaker 4: are looking this summer for a team that's right now
Speaker 4: at five hundred, struggling to try and get in the
Speaker 4: playoff situation and maybe getting the top six if they
Speaker 4: could even.
Speaker 3: Squeeze in there at best case scenario.
Speaker 4: They're looking this summer having a total outlay payroll, taxes
Speaker 4: and penalties of over four hundred million dollars for a
Speaker 4: team that's not in with the big boys at the moment.
Speaker 4: Now you look at their roster, they'll go, well they
Speaker 4: got three big boys. Yeah, well, for whatever reason, it's
Speaker 4: not working, and now we're gonna be paying all this
Speaker 4: money for something that's not getting us what that desired
Speaker 4: result is. So you look at a franchise like that,
Speaker 4: they didn't get anything done this time because of the
Speaker 4: Beal no trade, no trade clause, and now you're looking
Speaker 4: at them and they've got to be sitting there going,
Speaker 4: oh man, what are we gonna do because we are
Speaker 4: stuck in the corner and we have no way of
Speaker 4: getting out of here anytime soon. And that's that's a
Speaker 4: big deal for a franchise that twelve months ago had
Speaker 4: all these thoughts about being at the top of the heap.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I want to get into that in a little
Speaker 1: bit because I do think you know, Kevin Durant is
Speaker 1: shown to be a little petty and a little sensitive
Speaker 1: and his feelings get hurts, and he did not request
Speaker 1: the trade, and the Sons kicked the tires on him anyway.
Speaker 1: I mean look after Luca gets traded, everybody's got to
Speaker 1: be looking.
Speaker 2: Around, going what's going on here? Like nobody's safe.
Speaker 3: Hey, it's Spence, Spence.
Speaker 4: You want me to give you the list, Babe, Ruth
Speaker 4: Will Chamberlain, Wayne Gretzky, however long you want me to
Speaker 4: make the list. Everybody is tradable. All these things that
Speaker 4: you read and hear about about oh he's untouchable, let
Speaker 4: me tell you nobody literally in professional sports is untouchable.
Speaker 4: If the right deal comes along, or if you have
Speaker 4: someone who's in a position like like Nico Harrison, the
Speaker 4: general manager in Dallas, who you know, supposedly made a
Speaker 4: singular decision and got obviously the okay at the at
Speaker 4: the eleventh hour by ownership that if that's what you
Speaker 4: think we should do, then we'll do it. But those
Speaker 4: people act because of the information they have, because of
Speaker 4: the intel that they know that maybe other people don't
Speaker 4: or other people misconstrue or whatever it is, and that
Speaker 4: it's the job that those guys have. And you know,
Speaker 4: I'm not saying I agreed disagree.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 4: You know, I can't a weigh in on that stuff
Speaker 4: just because it's too early to tell all that stuff.
Speaker 4: All that stuff will play out and in good time.
Speaker 4: But to have the confidence in what you believe makes
Speaker 4: sense to you at that moment in time is a
Speaker 4: big deal for an organization that really shook everything up
Speaker 4: and is still feeling the ripple effects, and they will
Speaker 4: for a while.
Speaker 1: I have to say I'm proud of you for bringing
Speaker 1: up the Babe Ruth trade without getting upsets as a
Speaker 1: Red Sox fan, and of course I'm a Yankee fan
Speaker 1: because they Curse of the Bambino appeared to be real
Speaker 1: for a while and then steroids and David Ortiz and
Speaker 1: Manny Ramirez changed all that.
Speaker 2: But let me but I wanted to.
Speaker 1: I do want to ask you about kJ Martin, and
Speaker 1: let me just ask you now because I think the
Speaker 1: Luca topic is more interesting. Like I said, kJ Martin
Speaker 1: is not a piece that is suddenly going to change
Speaker 1: the perspective of the jazz. But of all the names
Speaker 1: I heard there, you and I talked to the game
Speaker 1: last night. True it was gone, okay, we knew that.
Speaker 1: Now he's a Piston. There's no way Talker was around.
Speaker 1: Like I said, he's been rerouted twice. I think he's
Speaker 1: in Toronto, Jalen hood S. Chafino got jimmered his third year,
Speaker 1: didn't get picked up, and so I don't think he's
Speaker 1: an NBA guy. There's a little bit to like about
Speaker 1: kJ Martin, though, isn't there. I mean, forty nine starts
Speaker 1: for the rockets. He's not just to throwaway into the
Speaker 1: bench guy.
Speaker 2: I think we might see him get some minutes, don't you.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think you know he's a guy that you know,
Speaker 4: I would not be surprised if they if they were
Speaker 4: using him, you know, as as a long look as
Speaker 4: a person looks you bring him in. He's young enough,
Speaker 4: he's shown you that he has some skill, some ability. Okay,
Speaker 4: sometimes guys need a certain team to just get in
Speaker 4: and get a certain niche and a certain feel for that.
Speaker 4: With him, my guess is that he came available. They said, hey,
Speaker 4: this isn't any big consequence to us financially, when when
Speaker 4: I get into a big hole here, he's a young guy.
Speaker 4: He fits a mold in terms of a long, you know,
Speaker 4: wing stretch guy. Maybe a three and D guy. Maybe
Speaker 4: I don't know, but you know, he's certainly worth looking
Speaker 4: at more closely to give him some run. I would
Speaker 4: think and to also get him in your locker room,
Speaker 4: get him with your group, find out on a personal
Speaker 4: level the next the next couple of months. Is he
Speaker 4: a guy we want to work with going forward? Is
Speaker 4: he a guy that doesn't really fit what we're doing?
Speaker 4: Whatever it is. These are always the kind of guys
Speaker 4: in the time of the year that you see that
Speaker 4: happening with a lot of teams, like in a position
Speaker 4: like the jazz where you can afford to, you know,
Speaker 4: to just you know, try something and you see it happens,
Speaker 4: and it doesn't happen, it doesn't work for you, whatever
Speaker 4: it is, and then you just move on or you go, hey,
Speaker 4: we got a nice, nice little piece here. Let's let's
Speaker 4: uh give him another couple of years or something and
Speaker 4: then get him into the group and and see how
Speaker 4: that plays out. So that's that's part of the laboratory
Speaker 4: experiment that the Jazz are going through that we've talked
Speaker 4: about before. Spence about you know, mining for gold and
Speaker 4: throwing it in the river and you know, shaking the
Speaker 4: pan and the rocks in the sand and everything comes
Speaker 4: out and maybe you find a gold nugget or two
Speaker 4: along the way. That's what they're doing I think with
Speaker 4: a guy like kJ Martin.
Speaker 2: So a little background on kJ.
Speaker 1: He was the Sierra Canyon kid if that sounds familiar,
Speaker 1: That's where Brownie James played. He played on a team
Speaker 1: with Scottie Pippen Junior and Cassius Stanley, averaged seventeen and
Speaker 1: ten for a team that won the California Open Division
Speaker 1: back to back years. He was going to go to
Speaker 1: college at Vandy and then opted for a postgraduate year
Speaker 1: at IMG. Twenty points eight boards at IMG, and then
Speaker 1: he had that game at the National Prep Showcase where
Speaker 1: he dropped thirty seven.
Speaker 2: He decided to declare for the draft.
Speaker 1: He was the second round pick from the Kings in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, traded to the Rockets, spent the first part
Speaker 1: of his rookie year with the G League team, and
Speaker 1: then was activated twenty twenty one, twenty one on.
Speaker 2: January the fourth.
Speaker 1: So he did have some good years with Houston before
Speaker 1: being traded. His season and career high as twenty seven
Speaker 1: points against the Jazz back in twenty twenty one, and
Speaker 1: his three years in Houston okay forty five games played
Speaker 1: nine points, five boards. First his rookie year, second year
Speaker 1: played in seventy nine games, two starts, eight points, four rebounds.
Speaker 1: His third year was his best year, where he played
Speaker 1: all eighty two games, started forty nine of them, played
Speaker 1: twenty eight minutes a night, had thirteen points, almost five
Speaker 1: and a half boards, only shot thirty one from three
Speaker 1: and sixty eight percent from the free throw line. Then
Speaker 1: didn't really play much for the Clips, moved on to Philadelphia.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, maybe I'm trying to stretch this
Speaker 1: out into something that it's not. But he is a
Speaker 1: young player that will get a look here. We'll see
Speaker 1: if he can get something hold. Twenty four years old, Yeah,
Speaker 1: twenty four, So that's that's still a developmental guy.
Speaker 4: And as a guy who's bounced around a little bit,
Speaker 4: and that's a guy you you kick the tires on
Speaker 4: if you're the Jazz and you just say, hey, you know,
Speaker 4: we'll take a look at him and see what we think,
Speaker 4: and the coach likes and doesn't like him whatever, and
Speaker 4: then we decide after that what we think we want
Speaker 4: to do going forward.
Speaker 1: And just turned twenty four January birthday, so young twenty four.
Speaker 2: All right, last topic here, and you know you texted me.
Speaker 1: This and I chuckled because I keep talking about the
Speaker 1: ox Razor theory, which is the simplest explanation, is the
Speaker 1: one that usually you land on and a lot of
Speaker 1: travels halfway around the world before the truth can get
Speaker 1: its boots on the old saying.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So, I've talked to you about this, I've talked to
Speaker 1: other people around the league about this. There are some
Speaker 1: different opinions. Bottom line, why did Dallas do this? Bottom
Speaker 1: line your understanding of the situation. You know people that
Speaker 1: are with Dallas. You know people that were with Dallas, Dennis,
Speaker 1: Lindsay and Detroit spent some time with Nico. So my
Speaker 1: guess is, you know, Siddy, why did Dallas elect to
Speaker 1: do this? Because from a basketball standpoint, I personally just.
Speaker 4: Don't see it. Yeah, well it's I don't. You never
Speaker 4: know the whole story, Spence. So that's that's the first
Speaker 4: one that we put out there. Nobody knows the whole
Speaker 4: story except the few handful of people that are right
Speaker 4: right in the center of that and making it happen.
Speaker 4: But I will say this, My take on it is this.
Speaker 4: I believe that when when Nico Harrison decides that that
Speaker 4: he wants to consider something like this, the story I
Speaker 4: read about him meeting with with Rob Polenka in a
Speaker 4: coffee shop a month ago.
Speaker 3: You know, just you know through the idea.
Speaker 4: They have a long relationship with each other from back
Speaker 4: when Nico Harrison worked with Nike and he's working with
Speaker 4: Rob Polenka, who was working with Kobe Bryant and Poye
Speaker 4: Ryan was Nico Harrison's guy and all that. So they
Speaker 4: have a relationship that goes back a lot of years
Speaker 4: in a different context. Now you get to the present day.
Speaker 4: They feel they can be secure with each other. They
Speaker 4: feel they can be confident with each other that anything
Speaker 4: they discuss is going to stay between the two of them.
Speaker 4: They supposedly have a discussion, hey, would you ever think
Speaker 4: about this? Would you think think about this? And whatever,
Speaker 4: and they decide to keep him on theself. I don't
Speaker 4: have any problem believing that that's that that's what actually
Speaker 4: took place, and because over a six plus year period
Speaker 4: and Nico Harrison wasn't there for all of it, but
Speaker 4: he's there ever since he got to Dallas several years ago.
Speaker 3: He lived every.
Speaker 4: Day with uh with with with the whole Luka Doncic thing.
Speaker 4: You like him, great player, great talent, a good guy.
Speaker 4: He's not a bad guy. You know, nobody should paint
Speaker 4: him in that light. You know, the whole question about
Speaker 4: anything around him as a professional, as a as a
Speaker 4: an NBA player and one of the top players in
Speaker 4: the world literally, is you know, whether he is fully
Speaker 4: committed to his conditioning, to his skilled development, to getting
Speaker 4: better or is he one of these guys who's content
Speaker 4: with just coming And as we used to say, you
Speaker 4: know with Kevin O'Connor a lot, you know, there's some
Speaker 4: guys who just are satisfied getting a C minus in
Speaker 4: the class. You know, as long as he's get degrees,
Speaker 4: you know, so as long as you as long as
Speaker 4: I passed the class, that's all I That's all I'm
Speaker 4: worried about. And maybe, and I'm not saying this is it,
Speaker 4: but I'm postilizing out there that maybe, you know, Nico
Speaker 4: had seen every day, every day for several years, that
Speaker 4: we're trying to get this guy to move in this direction.
Speaker 4: And now he was with Kobe Bryant. So Kobe Bryant
Speaker 4: was a different animal. He was on the other end
Speaker 4: of the scale, working out fit, diet, all that stuff,
Speaker 4: twenty five hours a day. His entire career, So that
Speaker 4: was different. Okay, so that's way over there on that
Speaker 4: end of the scale. But Luka Doncic was known for,
Speaker 4: you know, having you know, I don't know, so tough time,
Speaker 4: but but just not being in the shape you'd want
Speaker 4: him to be in. And because of that, that affects
Speaker 4: your your ability to stay healthy. It starts affecting your joints,
Speaker 4: whether it's your your feet, your ankles, your knees, your
Speaker 4: low back, you know, whatever it is. And so that
Speaker 4: gets you off the floor. So my theory, my feeling
Speaker 4: is that Nico had seen all that and had said,
Speaker 4: you know what, I'm not sure that I'm convinced that
Speaker 4: he is going to eventually get it, because we've been
Speaker 4: doing this for six plus years and he hasn't adopted
Speaker 4: that the way we want, and it hasn't gone the
Speaker 4: way we want in that particular aspect of his career,
Speaker 4: and so I'm not sure that we as an organization
Speaker 4: should be in the position of trying to decide whether
Speaker 4: to give him what would have been this summer a
Speaker 4: supermax deal in the neighborhood of three hundred and fifty
Speaker 4: million dollars. Can we make that kind of a call
Speaker 4: on a guy who hasn't shown that he wants to
Speaker 4: do it in that regard, and what is his motivation
Speaker 4: going to be if and when he gets.
Speaker 3: Three hundred fifty dollars. Okay, So that's what I think.
Speaker 4: I think that's a bigger part of what went into
Speaker 4: that decision. Only time will tell if if he's right
Speaker 4: or if Luca. Maybe Luca gets around Lebron James and goes, hey, hey,
Speaker 4: oh this is how you do it. Lebron goes, yeah, hey,
Speaker 4: you know this is the way. Come on, come on, man,
Speaker 4: let's go. And he goes, oh, yeah, well I want
Speaker 4: to be Lebron James. And so okay, I guess maybe maybe.
Speaker 4: So in a perfect Laker whorld, Lakers are going, we
Speaker 4: hope that happens. In the Dallas world, they're going, yeah,
Speaker 4: we'll see, We're gonna stand on the sideline and we'll see.
Speaker 3: And that's that's what I think.
Speaker 2: To play, all right. I mean, it is a massive risk.
Speaker 2: We'll see how it plays out.
Speaker 1: Richard Smith Live in studio, the NBA Trade deadline, Camon
Speaker 1: Wentz at one o'clock Mountain time, the Utah Jazz made
Speaker 1: one minor move. They sent Dennis shrud On to Detroit.
Speaker 1: The old the old general manager of the Utah Jazz,
Speaker 1: Dennis Lindsay now in Detroit. So Dennis shrewd add some
Speaker 1: veteran leadership to a team that's actually played pretty well
Speaker 1: this year with the Detroit Pistons. Obviously, Smitty, we've been
Speaker 1: breaking down the most impactful deals. I think this is
Speaker 1: the most consequential, for better or for worse. And you're
Speaker 1: always good to remind us the time will tell trade
Speaker 1: deadline and NBA history. We've talked about this from the
Speaker 1: standpoint of the Jazz and some big picture stuff, and
Speaker 1: you gave us a good list of players historically in
Speaker 1: every sport who had been traded, whether it's Baby Ruth
Speaker 1: or Wayne Gretzky, and everybody's available if the right deal
Speaker 1: comes along. Did you guys ever get close to trading
Speaker 1: John Occarl No, I didn't think so.
Speaker 4: That wouldn't that, that wouldn't have gotten by Larry. Larry
Speaker 4: just loved both Carl and John so much, and rightfully so,
Speaker 4: as we all did. We were all on that gravy
Speaker 4: train for almost two decades. But if it was, it
Speaker 4: was never a thing. Of course, we had several summers
Speaker 4: where Carl you know, threatened, you know, in the media,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm not coming back and this and that whatever,
Speaker 4: and he and Larry would get together and then patch
Speaker 4: it up and you know, and that was a father
Speaker 4: son relationship type thing.
Speaker 3: And then John had.
Speaker 4: A couple of opportunities as a pending free agent to
Speaker 4: maybe go somewhere and get make some more money and
Speaker 4: get a bigger payday right in the height of his career.
Speaker 4: And you know, twice he famously just sat down with
Speaker 4: Larry individually, without an agent.
Speaker 3: They went to lunch.
Speaker 4: Hey, Larry, you know, if you can do this, then
Speaker 4: I'm okay, I get it. And Larry's going, well, I
Speaker 4: don't know, you know, maybe can we do this and
Speaker 4: they just they just hammer it out themselves. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: because but but there was it was different as unique, right.
Speaker 4: John at that time was in the middle of growing
Speaker 4: his family that ended up being six children. And John's
Speaker 4: you know, a very stable, you know, home body type guy,
Speaker 4: and he didn't want to have to move his family around,
Speaker 4: and he didn't want to have to put kids in
Speaker 4: different school.
Speaker 2: Rules and all of that.
Speaker 4: So for him, a lot of it was, hey, if
Speaker 4: you're just fair with me and what I think makes sense.
Speaker 4: I don't have to get paid more money than Gary Payton.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm just as a hypothetic, you know.
Speaker 4: I just I just have to feel like you value
Speaker 4: me for what I what I bring, and what I
Speaker 4: think I think is fair, and if we can come
Speaker 4: to an agreement like that, then then we're all good,
Speaker 4: you know. And so so those are those are different approaches,
Speaker 4: different different guys, you know. But it wouldn't if, if
Speaker 4: and when it to answer your question, if it had
Speaker 4: never gotten to any kind of a point of that nature,
Speaker 4: in my opinion, it would.
Speaker 3: Have never gotten by Larry. Larry would have never.
Speaker 4: He would have said, no, no, you guys, go back
Speaker 4: in the room, close the door, figure it out.
Speaker 1: Because when I when I'm not doing that, do I
Speaker 1: remember And I may just be I mean, I could
Speaker 1: be making this up, could be a figuring of my imagination.
Speaker 1: But something in my mind is triggering a memory of
Speaker 1: the potential Carl to Dallas thing at one point that
Speaker 1: may have been talked about.
Speaker 2: I don't know how serious that was, or maybe he
Speaker 2: was just a rumor along.
Speaker 4: I don't remember that Spencer. Thing I do remember is
Speaker 4: going way back to the beginning of it. In the draft.
Speaker 4: In Carl's draft in eighty five, we all believed that
Speaker 4: Dallas picking six, was going to take Carl because he
Speaker 4: was a so called local guy from Louisiana Tech was
Speaker 4: only like three hours from Dallas, and and we thought
Speaker 4: that's that was where he was going to go in
Speaker 4: the draft. And then when he didn't, and then he
Speaker 4: went by nine to ten, then we thought, well, there's
Speaker 4: a chance he might get to us at thirteen, and
Speaker 4: again he was just a guy on the list of
Speaker 4: all these other guys. And then and then Washington took
Speaker 4: Kenny Green from Wake Forest at twelve, and I remember
Speaker 4: Scott looked at his dad, coach Layden and the general
Speaker 4: manager also time, and said, well, we got to take
Speaker 4: the Malone kid from Louisiana Tech.
Speaker 3: And and and I remember Frank said, are you sure?
Speaker 3: Is there something wrong?
Speaker 4: Because you said he was gonna go five sixty seven
Speaker 4: and now he's here at thirteen, So is there something
Speaker 4: we don't know, like he has a bad knee or
Speaker 4: he's a bad guy, or something that we don't know.
Speaker 4: And I remember Scott said, well, no, we don't. I
Speaker 4: don't have any of that info and I haven't heard
Speaker 4: any of those things, but he's too good a talent
Speaker 4: not to take him at thirteen. And then just you know,
Speaker 4: hope for the best kind of thing, and Frank goes, okay,
Speaker 4: that's I hope you're right and he was right. I
Speaker 4: hope you're right and he was right. The rest is history. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I remember that rumor surfacing at
Speaker 1: some point. But anyway, yesterday's news, all right, we already
Speaker 1: talked about what the Jazz did do. Smitty gave us
Speaker 1: a good breakdown on kJ Martin, the only actual tangible
Speaker 1: piece that remained as PJ. Tucker has been moved on twice.
Speaker 1: And think I think our guy landed in Orlando. Jalen
Speaker 1: Houcha Fino is probably not an NBA player, no longer
Speaker 1: on the roster, and then Bamba was waived, so kJ
Speaker 1: mar Josh Richardson also waves. So kJ Martin's the only
Speaker 1: tangible piece that Jazz brought in. They have five second
Speaker 1: round picks in their back pocket and an unprotected first
Speaker 1: from Phoenix in twenty thirty one. All right, every day
Speaker 1: it was like John Collins getting traded. Every day I
Speaker 1: heard some sort of John Collins to Sacramento John Collins,
Speaker 1: This John Collins, that John Collins, Collin Sexton, Jordan clarks
Speaker 1: And they were jazz man yesterday and they're jazz men
Speaker 1: today after one o'clock mountaintime.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you make of it?
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I thought they played really hard
Speaker 4: last week.
Speaker 2: It was a fun game, yeah.
Speaker 4: You know, and it looked like to me like, oh,
Speaker 4: these guys know that this is a try this is
Speaker 4: a tryout.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah for somebody Clarkson goes for a thirty player,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly.
Speaker 4: And so but it didn't work out that way my guess.
Speaker 4: And I don't know anything spence about it, but it
Speaker 4: would make sense to me if we assume that that
Speaker 4: the Jazz who are trying to move a couple of
Speaker 4: those guys just because they don't fit the timeline they're
Speaker 4: on to maybe if they could get some assets and
Speaker 4: they would also save some money. Probably they probably were
Speaker 4: asking for whatever it was that just either didn't work
Speaker 4: out with another team that you know, maybe didn't didn't
Speaker 4: value them as much. But it also could could have
Speaker 4: been just logistics where maybe another team said, oh, we'd
Speaker 4: like John Collins, but we can't figure out a way
Speaker 4: to fit him into twenty five million dollars. We don't
Speaker 4: have that. We don't have that space. We're over the cap,
Speaker 4: we're into the luxury tax, whatever it is. And and
Speaker 4: the only guy we can trade back to you is
Speaker 4: Spence Checkets, who never gets off the bench, who also
Speaker 4: happened making twenty five million. I like it, yeah, And
Speaker 4: so you know, and the Jazz go, well, Spence seconds,
Speaker 4: what we're gonna do with him?
Speaker 1: You know, we don't have to put it in that conversation,
Speaker 1: you know, and say they say that anyway, I wish
Speaker 1: I argue with.
Speaker 4: That, but anyway, so they probably had discussions. It either
Speaker 4: didn't work out because of what the Jazz were being
Speaker 4: offered to come back. I don't know if that would
Speaker 4: really be a big inhibitor, to be honest, because I
Speaker 4: think it would be more better for them long range
Speaker 4: to move on from that from those guys in terms
Speaker 4: of roster construction, but probably logistics where the teams they
Speaker 4: are talking to just didn't have any wiggle room to
Speaker 4: make a move happen, because if you're over the salary, captain,
Speaker 4: you have to trade dollar for dollars, So you'd have
Speaker 4: to trade somebody who's making equal amount of money and
Speaker 4: probably just didn't make sense for the Jazz.
Speaker 3: And so my guess, and it's just that is.
Speaker 4: At the end of the day, they ran that around
Speaker 4: the circle several times, came up with nothing, and so
Speaker 4: now we just move on.
Speaker 1: All right, One more question here regarding what the Jazz
Speaker 1: did not do, because there are a lot of Jazz
Speaker 1: fans and look, it's always inter just didn't consider the
Speaker 1: level of you know, functional NBA knowledge in a fan base.
Speaker 1: I think most fans just want to go watch a
Speaker 1: damn game and then don't give a rip about the
Speaker 1: mid level. Your second apron means you can't STI a
Speaker 1: player for twelve point eight. No, they don't care about
Speaker 1: that stuff, right, And I think we have a lot
Speaker 1: of basketball fans in this market that are wondering, okay,
Speaker 1: like Luca tieron Fox, brandon Ingram et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera, seven or eight, like difference making pieces were
Speaker 1: moved at this deadline.
Speaker 2: And these fans are looking at a team.
Speaker 1: That at times it's fun to watch because they're young,
Speaker 1: and they play hard and they get all that stuff
Speaker 1: and they know the deal. I suppose, But for a
Speaker 1: jazz fan out there is going, wait, we're not very good,
Speaker 1: and it seems to me one or more of these
Speaker 1: pieces would have made us.
Speaker 2: A lot better right away.
Speaker 1: Why didn't the Jazz do anything that actually provides immedia
Speaker 1: tangible value?
Speaker 2: What do you say to that jazz fan today.
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, you have to have it takes
Speaker 4: two to tango so and sometimes three or four uh
Speaker 4: teams that to to work out a deal. The I'm
Speaker 4: sure the Jazz called because your your responsibility is to
Speaker 4: make all those calls and to make sure you're you're
Speaker 4: in the loop on whatever's going on with other teams.
Speaker 4: You know, are you trying to get Do you want
Speaker 4: brandon Ingram?
Speaker 3: Do you like him?
Speaker 4: At that number? Is gonna be a free agent this summer?
Speaker 4: Are you're gonna You're only gonna trade for him if
Speaker 4: you think that you can re sign him and because
Speaker 4: you like him and you can keep on your asster.
Speaker 4: But it's gonna take a good chunk of money to
Speaker 4: do that. The Aaron Fox, you know, that kind of
Speaker 4: thing is is interesting to me because I don't know
Speaker 4: in this day and age how a player says I
Speaker 4: want to be traded and I want you to trade
Speaker 4: me to Team A. And then your team figures out
Speaker 4: a way to trade you to Team A, like I
Speaker 4: don't know how how you get to call that shot
Speaker 4: and that and that and and that's what happens. But okay, however,
Speaker 4: however that happened. But again, Sacramento I had to have
Speaker 4: a third team come in and they had to have somebody,
Speaker 4: and they were able to get Zach Levine in, right,
Speaker 4: So they go, well, if this guy's not gonna re
Speaker 4: sign with us in a year and a half, then
Speaker 4: you know we got to get something now. We don't
Speaker 4: want to do it. They didn't want to trade Deer
Speaker 4: and Fox believe me. You know, he's a linchpin of
Speaker 4: their team. He's a big time player for them. But
Speaker 4: if if that's what it's gonna be, we have to
Speaker 4: get out in front of it. So okay, how are
Speaker 4: we gonna do that? They they figure out some day
Speaker 4: they call everybody, do you guys want in? We're trying
Speaker 4: to figure this out, And when the dust settles, they
Speaker 4: end up bringing back a very good player and Zach Levine,
Speaker 4: who's having a career year this year at age twenty nine.
Speaker 4: So he's right in his prime. And they they you know,
Speaker 4: they get something that's that's ten, that's very good.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: On a similar part, I don't know if you call
Speaker 4: them the same level player, but pretty close the Aaron
Speaker 4: Fox and Zach Lavine. And so they get something for it.
Speaker 4: And uh, you know the Jazz, who are they offering
Speaker 4: to make something like that happen. They get a team
Speaker 4: where they can trade a bunch of draft picks, but
Speaker 4: a team those kind of teams, you know, whether it
Speaker 4: was you know, Dallas, whether it's the Lakers who believe
Speaker 4: they're they're good enough to make some noise, whether it's
Speaker 4: Golden State who believes they're good enough to make some noise,
Speaker 4: Sacramento who wants to get back in the mix of
Speaker 4: trying to make some noise. So those teams aren't going
Speaker 4: to take a bunch of draft picks because it doesn't
Speaker 4: help them now, and so that's what happens in that regard.
Speaker 3: So you're not helping a team.
Speaker 4: Get higher up on the ladder by giving them a
Speaker 4: bunch of draft picks or trade assets. So that doesn't
Speaker 4: help them. So now what does help them? Well, we'd
Speaker 4: like to, uh, can we talk about lowry marketing. We
Speaker 4: just signed and and by the way, they can't trade
Speaker 4: lowry marketing until this summer, so that's not even a
Speaker 4: wasn't even an option for the Jazz. So now you're
Speaker 4: talking about whatever players someone else would want. Uh So
Speaker 4: all those things become complicated, spends. A lot of it
Speaker 4: has to do with with salaries and matching salaries and
Speaker 4: teams that are.
Speaker 3: Over the the over.
Speaker 4: The cap, which most teams are, which means you have
Speaker 4: to trade one one which becomes difficult in itself, and
Speaker 4: and a lot of those kinds of moving parts just
Speaker 4: make it you're really intenable. Look you look at the
Speaker 4: other teams that are waddling in the bottom right, whether
Speaker 4: it's Charlotte, whether it's Washington. You know, maybe Portland is
Speaker 4: also kind of in that group as well. No, no,
Speaker 4: no players want to any of those teams because the
Speaker 4: teams that are trading those level players aren't getting from
Speaker 4: those teams what they need to keep their their momentum
Speaker 4: moving forward. And so that's why you see these guys
Speaker 4: going to other teams. Now, the the Ingram thing is
Speaker 4: interesting to Toronto because Toronto is one of those so
Speaker 4: called rebuilding teams but they they probably have some kind
Speaker 4: of understanding that that they they like Ingram enough that
Speaker 4: they're going to work something out with him to uh
Speaker 4: in free agency to re sign him and have him
Speaker 4: be part of their their group of Scottie Barnes and
Speaker 4: those guys going forward.
Speaker 3: So you know that might be a different deal.
Speaker 4: But that also involves the agents, and you know who's
Speaker 4: negotiating stuff behind the scenes, and and a lot of
Speaker 4: those kinds of things that also come into play.
Speaker 1: All Right, Smitty, before I say you lose in your opinion,
Speaker 1: what is the greatest trade in Utah jazz history? And
Speaker 1: there are a couple of trades that could manifest themselves
Speaker 1: as the greatest trades that are still going on, namely
Speaker 1: Gobarton Mitchell. We'll have to see how that turns out.
Speaker 1: Adrian Danley for Spencer Heywood way back in the day.
Speaker 1: There have been a lot of the Darren trade trades
Speaker 1: that draft that brought draft capital. It turned into Darren
Speaker 1: Williams and Gordon Hayward. I tend to think it's the
Speaker 1: horn Seck deal just because that's what put the team
Speaker 1: over the Humpting in the finals. But you were there
Speaker 1: forty years best most consequential trade in the history of
Speaker 1: Utah Jazz is what and.
Speaker 4: Why Well, I would say, in two different, two different pieces, Spence,
Speaker 4: the best trade or the most valuable in terms of
Speaker 4: what you got back was Adrian Daley because Adrian Dantley
Speaker 4: was a led the NBA, scoring several years, gave the
Speaker 4: Jazz some legitimacy in the early eighties with Daryl Griffith
Speaker 4: and Frank Laden was able to put those guys together
Speaker 4: and build a team from there with Thorough Bailey, with
Speaker 4: Mark Eaton, with Bobby Hansel, with John Stockton, with Karl
Speaker 4: Malone that then became a good competitive team.
Speaker 3: Now they're often running.
Speaker 4: The most consequential trade, in my opinion, I agree with
Speaker 4: you for one of the few times we ever agree
Speaker 4: on that uh was was the Jeff Horner Sack trade
Speaker 4: for Jeff Malone. Jeff Malone a very good player, was
Speaker 4: very good for the Jazz for three years. But but
Speaker 4: getting Jeff Horner Sack what he brought to the floor,
Speaker 4: but also what he brought to the locker room and
Speaker 4: who he was in terms of bringing the group, helping
Speaker 4: to bring the group together even more so under Carl
Speaker 4: and John's a player leadership.
Speaker 3: Now you've got a guy who who can come and.
Speaker 4: Get that that third guy who can score for you,
Speaker 4: who will compete, who's smart, who knows what's going on,
Speaker 4: and uh and he he came at the right time
Speaker 4: with the right group and and propelled that that team,
Speaker 4: you know, to the greatest heights that the jazz franchise
Speaker 4: has had during during his his years here.
Speaker 3: So that has to be considered the most consequential trade.
Speaker 1: I agree, Smity, Great to see you. Good stuff today.
Speaker 1: Enjoy super Bowl? Who you got? Real quick?
Speaker 3: Super Bowl?
Speaker 1: You got pick? You got the Chiefs Jets. That's brude.
Speaker 1: They missed out again this year. Just bear you got
Speaker 1: the Chiefs. Probably all right, my friend. Great to see you, okay,
Speaker 1: The Great Richard Smith