Speaker 1: If you want to support the show and get the
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me to basically put out an episode every day now,
and I'm not going to stop. I'm just going to accelerate.
I think sometimes you see that I'm putting out two
even three a day, and yeah, can't do it without
you you, so thank you for the support. Head on
over to Freeman Beyond the Wall dot com, forward slash
support and do it there. Thank you, and we're off. Carl,
how are you doing doing well?
Speaker 2: Pete? Happy Sunday, Happy Sunday?
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Man, do very well?
Speaker 1: All right, yeah, yeah, you I already asked you that
I'm retarded. So all right, so let's just there's one question,
all right, that's been thrown in on YouTube. So you
want to run to this. This one be easy for
you to get.
Speaker 2: Where is it?
Speaker 1: Scroll up says who are the best historians who write
in Spanish on the Spanish Civil War? Unbiased or with
nationalist biases?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Gosh, that is that's a challenge for me because I
haven't I have attacked the body of Spanish language material.
What I'll explain everyone kind of how I got where
I'm at as far as what I ended up studying.
Maybe that's a good baseline. What I attacked the topic
of the Spanish Civil War and research into it based
on wanting to be able to write a fictional story
of an American who goes there and eventually becomes a
belligerent official belligerent, which led me down the pathways of
you know, what kind of units could you be in?
You know, foreigners had to go into the Spanish legion,
et cetera. So my my research unless it was something
that I was just interested in, if I wanted to
tell stories about individual people in specific locations, I read
English language material and then I ended up reviewing Spanish
language materials. So when I most of my Spanish language
material that I've delved into is more associated with the
Carlists and the Novar Brigades than or individual like tiny
topics like specific weaponry or stuff about specific campaigns. So
I'm not really qualified to judge the Spanish Spanish academia
related to that, there's a lot of really great material
out of Navarre that's out there and historians who've been
doing work. If you do local, if you do local work,
there's a lot of really great material that's still being
done in Spain by Spanish people kind of outside of
academia or on the periphery of it, associated with specific localities.
But I'm sorry, I can't really address that unfortunately. I
would say though that if you look at my my
sub stack, I do have a bibliography in there, and
there's some Spanish language material in there, and I one
of the big areas, honestly, and I'm revisiting this peete
related to our project for talking about kind of the
the tech tree of liberal ideas and the different political
factions that formed in Spain really nineteenth century as it
relates to the twentieth century, and so I spent a
lot of time reading about the anarchist memoirs and stuff
like that. So I read a lot of Catalonian anarchist
memoirs as well, or Spaniards who ended up overseas and
then came back for the war, because there were a
lot out of South American Spanish who came back because
of their anarchism and their and their various activism because
that's where the action was, and they would also get
executed and in South America. So so it's it's tough
to talk about. But if you look at that bibliography,
you'll see a number of sources. There's Navar. Oh gosh,
it's it's recutezz dot e s. The page just went away,
But I have a link to it in my substack
Carl Dahl dot substack dot com. Uh, from material related
to the Carlists as well as in the bibliography that
my kind of my introduction to the novel is in
there also, UH where I link out to an archive
of uh the Novar Brigade kind of unofficial historians. Uh,
there's that stuff's out there, but it's in in an archive.
And that's a great place to start if you want
to see some really interesting, unbiased stuff and that that
again is very carlist centric navarre in Basque centric material.
Speaker 1: Okay, I just want to say I want to thank
Steven Fox for sending some some love through Venmo and
remind people that Fox and Son's Coffee, as I say
every week, promo code Peter or promo code PEKQ is
eighteen percent off over thirty dollars and free shipping over forty.
So all right, I got a question for Yeah, are
you familiar with beatified and canonized martyrs from the from
the War?
Speaker 3: I know of them, but I'm not fluent on the topic.
I know that they're that that did take place, that
they were formally beatified and canonized martyrs by the cathol
Like church, but I don't know a whole bunch about
that specifically being non non Catholic. Just for transparency's sake.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I guess I do want to
say this because I guess it's the topic of the day,
other than if we were if we weren't talking about this. Yeah, Yeah,
there's a lot of there's a lot of Christian our
our Christian brothers and sisters and their children in Syria
right now that you really need to be thinking about
and praying about. Because I'm not going to comment on
what happened in Syria. Nobody knows, So if you want
my speculation, I wrote. Check my comments on Twitter. I
had a couple comments, but that's all I'm doing until
I know more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's too too hard to know what's going on
over there, and having had to watch it in that
whole situation being I feel like it's been fairly pivotal
for me, like in the teens, to go from just
being kind of a black pilled like post libertarian who's
just like, I don't want to participate in paying attention
to this horrific stuff to actually turning on that and
being like, no, I'm not going to be quiet and
afraid to talk about these kinds of topics because of
what's going on has been going on in serious since
America did its thing. There's a lot of horrible information
out there. There's a lot of people that just want
to blackpill you. They want you to feel defeated. There's
I saw people who are supposedly on our side, and
I'm not going to name any names, but like pushing
stuff from authors of from Tablet magazine, which is a
Jew for Jew publication, and the only non Jews who
read it are good boys and anti Semites, like no
one else, no one else reads it. But there are
people pushing their stuff as like Netan Yaho is this
like great man of his It's it's so retarded Obama
is and his friends in Iran. You know, it's it's
the dumbest. Almost everything being talked about on that topic
is dumb and it sucks.
Speaker 1: I mean, the way I look at it is I'm
done with the faggots who, Yeah, if you have any
hope whatsoever, if you put your faith in anything and
it they're oh, oh you're just coping. Oh look look
you were wrong, so what so what so? I mean,
fucking see Canadian healthcare if that's your life, honestly, really,
see Canadian healthcare one thing. See your life if your
life is just black pilling, if you're just you know,
this is what I said. This is what I said
on Twitter this morning. I said it is one of
my comments is because Thomas was talking about it and
I said, you know, you're coping, like quote unquote, you're
coping is the favorite refrain of the dooomer, who believes
that by either not taking sides or by changing with
the wind, they are somehow above it all, and therefore
they're smarter than you. They're too brilliant to be emotionally
invested in outcomes. Therefore everyone is either their op or
everyone's a dupe. Well, go fuck yourself and your mother,
I mean, really, go fuck yourselves. I mean, honestly, I
mean take the easy way out, do it.
Speaker 3: Sorry, No, it's no, absolutely I agree. And there is
one kind of parallel here, like with how everyone is
feeling right now that comes up related to the Spanish
Civil War, and it's it's that whole question around why
did Spain not formally become a part of the axis.
And what we see with Russia's has been scaling back
what they were doing in Syria because their focus is
on you know, Ukraine and Nova Russia and you know,
taking care of the highest priority for them. And it sucks,
but you there are times when you have to make
choices based on what's best for your people and what
you're able to influence, and losing two wars is worse
than winning one war.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 3: I don't like it, but sometimes you are in a
situation where you can't win two wars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just don't. I just don't get the people
who like if you say, if I say, I hope
this is what happens, and then it doesn't happen, they
like lack fit you. Yeah, and it's fine to laugh
at me, It's fine, but just understand, seek Canadian healthcare.
That's my response to you, okay, because there are whole
families being slaughtered right now and you're like online telling people,
oh you you were wrong about this. The fuck yourself
all right now that I'm done with that. Do we
know what year Russia started having a presence in Spain
as far as spreading their you know, spreading their version
of communism and Bolshevism.
Speaker 3: So there is if you look at the in the
nineteenth century, the International, so what became the Communist International.
There was an original Inner National uh, and there were
there were a couple international kind of communist slash socialists
slash liberal groups would where the kind of the market
that was the marketplace of ideas for the left socialists
for a very long time. And ultimately what happened is
like but Cunin and marks. Their personal differences and falling
outs led to splintering into different groups, and it there
were these iterations of these international organizations that were pre Soviet,
but it was like that. It was the development of
what would ultimately become like an international Bolshevist movement. It
took it took decades to mature over time, and so
these ideas were going into Spain and they would have
their own representatives that would go to various groups. Sometimes
it would be there was that International Workingmen's Organization which
was primarily anarchists, although they were really comfortable inviting other
people in who were more different flavors of socialism to
try to have greater influence in a broader base, although
ultimately they wanted to push for an anarchist angle. And
so there's that interchange of ideas in people, right, that
was going on for a very long time, but formally
Soviet doesn't really start happening until the very late but
it's there were people who were going in the twenties
during the Primo de Rivera dictatorship, there were some who
were going to the Soviet Union from Spain. It happened
more in the thirties under the Republic where there was
more of an interchange. The lead generals in the Republican
Army were all men who had come out of the
various socialist and communist political parties who went to the
Soviet Union and were trained in their international military academies
for in the Russian slash Soviet method of war. And
magically when they start getting you know, all the Soviet
supplies and equipment and start putting red stars on the
Republican Army uniforms and in their insignia and have like
and communism takes over. These guys are in charge. So
that was really where it really really accelerated was in
the thirties under the republic NKVD people were there. During
the thirties, Largo Kabairo was a prime minister I want
to say Pete for a while who had been a
part of a His party was a socialist party, but
he personally became a Bolshevik communist aligned with the Soviet Union,
kind of in secrecy despite what his formal the formal
title and formal ideology of his party during the nineteen thirties,
through his reading when he was in prison, especially for
agitation under Primo de Rivera, and then also a little
bleeding over a little bit into the into the Republic.
Speaker 2: So it was it was these layers of the.
Speaker 3: Influence accelerating really formally in the nineteen thirties to the
point where by July nineteen thirty six it was people
were learning that it was an entirely Soviet project. At
a certain point the formal Republican government was indistinguishable from
one being one hundred percent Soviet control. Accepting Catalunya, that
I will add as a caveat, because that was pretty
much almost entirely cnt FAI people running things over there.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just going to say to the chat if
you guys, if you guys have any questions about the
Spanish Civil War, put them in entropy. It doesn't mean
you have to do a super chat. You can just
put them in entropy. If you guys want to discuss
Siria in the chat, then I'm just going to close
the chat and not look at it, Okay, because I
have plenty of questions here to keep this going for
a while.
Speaker 3: So can I throw out one quick answer? Phil Blair
asks a question in the chat about material originally written
in Basque. Similar similar response Philip to what I had
said before about where my focus was is I was.
I spent most of my time digging into Spanish sources
to fill gaps and Basque material is tricky because Basque
nationalism has retconned itself into being this like moderate republican nonsense,
which it never which is a very inaccurate way of
describing it. There's a nascent, resurgent recitee carlost Recute type
movement going on in the Basque country which is totally
their heritage and is very exciting. If you check out
that uh my any of my articles, I think any
of my articles on the recuitees in my sub stack,
there's links out to that recutez dot e s archive
that has some material in Basque UH, and then also
some material in Spanish UH castelliing Cathelian Spanish UH that
talks about the Basque perspective. Navarre was largely Basque. Navar
is a really interesting historical case study in the insane,
fragmented nature of the Spanish nation and the and the
localism of it. But the the NEvAr Brigades were hugely Basque,
whether or not they portrayed themselves that way.
Speaker 1: So h Chris Young has a question. He says, is
there any remnant of Carlism left in today today in Spain?
Speaker 2: So I don't know quite how to describe bit.
Speaker 3: I think it's it's closer to our actual scenario where
there are kind of traditionalist, possibly even reactionary people in
our sphere who are using the symbolism as a as
a representation of their historical ties to Spain and kind
of a conservative, reactionary, you know, perspective on the direction
the country's going in.
Speaker 2: I have a.
Speaker 3: There's a review of my novel Faction with the Crusaders
that was written by a Spaniard who has a house
of Bourbon. The the Carlist uh their their preferred battle flag,
which is the white banner with the red cross, the
red jagged cross as his avatar, and he said it
was the best novel by a foreigner he'd read on
his country's civil war, which to me was like the
highest compliment a person could pay to it. But anyway,
he I asked him about you know, you're repping these colors.
Is there a movement? And he basically said it's nascent,
but you will see there has been little bits of
like street fighting against you know, communists and antifoot types
in some areas, and then also against the you know,
the the migrant migrants swelling in Spain, and I've seen
guys with carlist face masks, like it's the white mask
with the red cross on it, which is pretty bad ass.
So I went, I don't know quite how to describe it.
I think it's people using the symbology more than anything else,
but like spiritually being motivated by it, which is the
most important thing in my opinion, is that the feelings
in the spirit are more important than the ideas in
a lot of ways, especially in this kind of nascent
nascent time. I hope that answers the question.
Speaker 1: This is a good question. Were there are Americans who
fought for the national side.
Speaker 3: Yes, very very few that we know about, and it's
kind of it's kind of tricky. So that's one of
the one of the themes in my novel is that
if you look at like most of what we know
in the English language about the Spanish Civil Wars from
a British perspective, right, there's Orwell who wrote about his
experience with the that you ugt. He was with the UGT, right,
which is a corny, a corney socialist movement, but he
was all on board on the destruction of the churches
and killing of priests and nuns like I despise orwell
with a passion.
Speaker 1: Oh, I think nineteen eighty five, I think nineteen eighty
four is is way overblown.
Speaker 2: Is a good book, It's exactly.
Speaker 3: I think it's something that you read as a kid
to understand the basics. But his problem was was the
fact that they were coming after him and not just
going with you know, yeah, it it's this like I
want my choose, choose your own, choose your own communism, right,
you know, it's like he aligned with He didn't know
what he was talking about and what he was getting
himself into and who he was aligning himself with when
he went into that war. And he says it himself
in homage to Catalonia's So anyway, so we have his perspective.
We now have Peter Kemp's excellent perspective from mine Were
of Trouble, which is a great book. But the number
one thing that should jump out to everyone when they
read this book, and it's what jumped out to me,
is that he had the permission of British intelligence to
be there, and he became a British intelligence asset. When
you go into a foreign war, if you are if
people know about it in your government before you go,
you will be having chats you don't. This isn't this
brugged individualist crap. He was briefed before he went by
people with connections to British intelligence who.
Speaker 2: Were operating for British intelligence.
Speaker 3: And then he was being debriefed every time he went
back to England and when he was talking to English
people in business in government in England. He was an
intelligence asset. And then he went into the s OE
in World War Two. That's what my character does in
this book. He's part of the this Anglo American group
uh that was around uh Donovan, Bill Donovan, operating in
Spain and around the world. But it's it was kind
of a loose, loose, semi unofficial intelligence organization. But Bill
Donovan worked for the president, he worked for FDR. And
the joke is quote unquote despite the differences in their
political parties, because Donovan was a Republican. It's laughable, you know,
in the current year, when you when you see that
as a caveat so Anyway, the the the long and
the short of it is that Americans who were over
there volunteering. We know about some pilots, and we know
about a handful of people who are in the in
the legion, and many of them became very persecuted when
they came back to the United States unless they played
ball and went to work for you know, whatever the whatever.
Speaker 2: The big game was going to be.
Speaker 3: And so that's what my character does is through through
Bill Donovan, because they when I was writing the story
I was reading, I knew that Bill Donovan had been
in and out of Spain at the tail end of
the war and was involved in a lot of the
negotiations with Franco's people and then of course the British.
Here here's something I'll point out for people. The number
one foreign investment and ownership of interests in Spanish mining
and factories and everything was British and they had a
very close relationship for around two hundred years between Britain
and Spain, you know, including their you know, quote unquote
intervention against Napoleon. Like it goes back a very long time.
There's a chapel in London that is a Spanish chapel
that's been there since the mid seventeen hundreds for the
Spanish diet, not diaspora, but really ruling class and people
doing business in Britain. They're intertwined. Their upper classes have
been intertwined for a very long time. I have characters
that demonstrate that, and it's very important to understand that
when you talk about the British negotiating with Franco and everything.
Franco was supplied trucks like thousands, ten thousand trucks and
fuel from American and British interests who stopped supporting the
Republicans because they everyone knew the Republicans were Bolsheviks, like
it was the common knowledge. And then it stopped being
common knowledge, you know, after nineteen forty five, Gollie. So
the Americans who were in this in this operation, you know,
on the Nationalists side, generally, if they came back to
the United States, you know, our government knew about it,
and they were told this you're going to play ball
or you got to get out of here. There was
an Italian American pilot who had fought for the Nationalists
who the was so agitated by the way that he
was treated by the American government. He was born in
the United States, but his parents were from Italy. That
he went back to Italy and he fought for the
Italians during World War Two because they because he didn't
want to play ball with them. So that's there. Really
weren't that many that we know about publicly, and my
theory from what I've been able to find, is that
that's how it really worked out, as most of them ended.
A bunch of them would have died because they would
have been in the Spanish Legion, which who were shock troops,
or they would have plugged into the American system afterwards
and just not been talked about because you wouldn't have
been talking about that in the nineteen fifties and sixties.
Speaker 1: So just a couple of super chats. Shawn See over
on Entropy says, pray for Syria, absolutely screwed up. Rebellion
over on Rumble says, blessed Lord's Day, Pete and Carl,
God bless and thank you for everything you do. See
you two, thank you. Uh well, let's see what else
we got here. Yeah, someone had mentioned here that in
the new Oppenheimer movie they they portrayed the Spanish Civil
War as the current thing, and everybody was on the
side of the Republicans. All the college ship, yes, were
on the side of the Republican Yeah, no ship. Yeah,
that's it's true.
Speaker 3: My my alma mater has a a monument to the
Spanish Civil War volunteers from from that university, and fortunately
a lot of them were killed.
Speaker 1: The All right, the okay, let's see next one. What's
the first official engagement conflict of the war from the
nationalist side.
Speaker 3: So that's it's hard because the the very the day
of the rising I think really counts. It wasn't because
there were battles all over the whole country, and sometimes
it was a.
Speaker 2: That there they were able to play it off where.
Speaker 3: A handful of people were able to go in and
just like take control of a military base and then
they would hold the city Zaragosa, for example. We never
hear anything about that because that was a almost one
hundred percent nationalist city where there was very little fighting.
Speaker 2: The Libtards were dealt with very quickly.
Speaker 3: In Navarre, uh, there were they basically rounded up all
the Libtards. There was a little bit of fighting. There's
some image which is that you can find if you
look at Navar, July nineteen thirty six images of some
libtards who ended up getting stuck in towers and stuff
and were uh. It took a little bit of fighting
to get rid of them, but it was taken care
of in about two days. And so it was everywhere
in the everywhere in the country during the during the uprising,
as far as like rolling battles that happened after that
is one of the big ones was was within just
a couple of days, the NEvAr brigades and the Recatae
militias began marching south from Navarre, and a lot of
them were in Aragon also to reinforce units in Oregon
because of the cnt anarchists who were were going off
and the after securing Barcelona and Catalonia in general and
massacring people on their way, the CNTI militants drove north
into Oregon because they were trying to get to Zaragoza,
which is an industrial city that's way up there in
a mountain plateau area, very beautiful area by the way,
and there was a pretty some pretty gnarly battles to
get through that where they the Carlists absolutely crushed the
anarchists up there and then steamrolled south, and then they
ended up smacking into each other and creating lines that
were fairly static after not very long in that area,
so and reinforcing along those lines. One of the big
things that you'll notice is that whenever you look at
a map of Spain, you absolutely have to have topography
turned on, and then all the lines that you see
makes sense because of mountains and rivers and everything like that,
especially the mountains.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think.
Speaker 3: Of other battles that were rolling battles, but we talked
a little bit the last time about a Koruna and
that was kind of a rolling battle also with the
local nationalist garrison against the libtards from the start of
the war. So there were there were lots of pockets
like that all over the country where there would be
a nationalist garrison or like they would hold a city
or a garrison and just hold so.
Speaker 1: Screwed up Texas over here mentions that you know what
happens every couple of years, happened this week. Redditors were
freaking out because they found out that Tolkien supported Franco
and the nationalists.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, it was.
Speaker 3: It was a very common perspective, and they the press
didn't even have the moment, have a pro Republican momentum,
and outside of you know, the usual suspect controlled press,
that that was entirely it. And then they always say
Guernica was this pivotal point. No, Guernica was a propaganda
like coup for for the libtards, but that didn't change
people's perspectives.
Speaker 2: It was just this they had this data.
Speaker 3: Point, but it when in reality it was just modern warfare,
like look at look at the way America prosecuted World
War Two. You can't you can't say that you're better
than the Wehrmacht in Spain when you're when you're British
or American, it's get out of here.
Speaker 1: Mak seb Over on Rumble says, I've read Fashion with
Your Crusaders and gave a detailed review on m is
on five stars.
Speaker 3: Oh thanks, thank you, glad you enjoyed it all right,
So thanks for the review. I want to emphasize that
the review authors live and die like like, visibility and
interest in our work lives and dies by these reviews.
Speaker 2: Thank you for the review.
Speaker 3: If there's anyone else out there who's bought and read
my book and enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: Your review would be very much appreciated.
Speaker 3: You're not going to get dogs because you read a
book on a fictional book and review it.
Speaker 2: On Amazon, So thank you very much. I appreciate that
a lot.
Speaker 1: Who are degenerate society asked who are some of the
other popular any popular figures or famous people at the
time who supported the war or who were really bad
on the war. Oh, I mean I would assume a
lot would have been bad.
Speaker 2: On the war. A lot would have been bad. Yeah.
Speaker 3: If you really want to get as as the girls say,
the I check out the people who write glowing reviews
about the Spanish Republicans and the like Paul Robison, who
is this black communist singer went to went to Spain
and would shuck and jive for the for the Abraham
Lincoln Brigades and all the and the other groups, and
like he sang a song in Yiddish because because the
the International Brigades were so heavily Jewish, and he was again, uh,
Paul Robison was absolutely a creation of of Jewish propagandists also,
so yeah, it's it's really it's really yucky. But from
what I've been able to tell like, so, so when
Stormy and you have been talking a lot about the
America First, like what was going on behind it, what
was leading up to the you know, the the activities
of America First and some of the kind of proactive
attempts that that that they were discussing and attempting to make.
And what I would say is, and I can speak
authoritatively for this because that was a very big deal
in my family and like my family history was very
much impacted by the America First movement. I have a grandfather,
I'll just be candid about it.
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 3: I had two grandfathers from that generation, of course, and
one of them, his his story is kind of told
in a wink wink way in my book where German
surname and he was named after a neighbor kid who
was killed in the very first battle America participated in
World War One. And he was the only child of
this Greek couple who lived next to my great grandparents,
and he was killed like weeks before my grandfather was born.
And they, of course, having lost their only child, are
just going insane, and they begged and begged my great
grandmother to name her child after theirs if it was
a boy, and it was a boy, and so rather
than getting the name that he would have expected to get,
they put his father's name as his middle name, and
then gave him a Greek name that he as his
Christian name that he came to hate because it was
very odd in a like Nordic and German and English area,
and it was a very and at the time like
everyone had the most Anglo version of what their name
would be would be with how it was pronounced and
the name that you would go under. And so when
he turned eighteen, he changed his name to buy but
he was respectful enough that he switched it around to
where he then had the Greek middle name. Anyway, so
he was a little older because he was born in
nineteen seventeen, and as the war mania was being pushed
in the press, everyone's talking about it, and as we
know from surveys from the time, you know, eighty some
percent up to ninety percent of the country wanted nothing
to do with another war in Europe.
Speaker 2: And my.
Speaker 3: Great grandmother made her sons promise not to fall for
what she knew was going to happen is that there
was going to be a war, and she made them promise,
you know, this is the right thing. Promised to me,
that you will not join the military. And my grandfather
promised along with his brother. He was the only one
who kept that promise. And you know what, he ate
shit for the rest of his life because of it.
He was already a firefighter, he had been a firefighter
for some time, so he was exempt and from the
draft because it was necessary, you know, critical critical operations.
And he was about twenty five years old when the
war started. But he ate shit for the rest of
his life, like professionally and personally socially because of he
did what was the right thing and kept a promise
because he knew that his you know, to the people
who wanted who wanted this war, the point was for
him to go kill his cousins, go kill Christians, and
he knew not to do that.
Speaker 2: So I take that very seriously.
Speaker 3: And what I can say is there was plenty if
you look at America first material that was out there,
those newspapers, et cetera. Those were pro nationalists. They were
also pro let's not get involved, you know, let's stay
out of this war because they also saw it as
a potential precursor and so they were very much supporting
the neutrality arrangement that America was a part of, to
where they were, you know, selling trucks in fuel to
the nationalists, but not providing weapons and not getting involved
in not sending personnel. And that was a very popular
perspective in America. It was also seen as it was
also seen as just horrific modern war.
Speaker 2: And everyone think.
Speaker 3: Of all the World War One veterans in the United States.
Speaker 2: They talk I had.
Speaker 3: Another grandfather, my other grandfather joined the army in early
nineteen forty one because as a steel worker, he heard
from all the World War One vets around him, They're like,
there's going to be a war. Don't get drafted, but
join early. You'll have rank and you'll have real training.
And so that's what he did because he felt like
it was inevitable. He was in Appalachia. He's like, it's different,
it's a different mentality. So you know, we're going to
we fight the war. And so he assumed, you know,
well that's what I do because I'm an American. So yeah,
pardon my digression and problem.
Speaker 1: Robert Ready here says it right. Father Coughlin. Social Justice
Magazine was definitely pro Franco and pronoun very very so.
Z Man over here, says Carl Dahl, smells like feet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, inside joke from a group chat.
Speaker 1: Got a super chat over on Odyssey from the Geezer,
thanks man, I don't yeah, this is from the Geezer
over on Odyssey. Outside of a outside of official combatants
sent by government channels. Do you know what nations had
the largest contribution of foreign volunteers from to join the
nationalists side. I'm thinking would Romania be one?
Speaker 2: Possibly? Romania is up there. Romania.
Speaker 3: It had thousands of members of the Iron Garden associated
nationalist groups. In the Spanish legion, there were a lot
of like we talked about before, there were a lot
of Portuguese because again it was originally going to be
an official detachment, but because of all the all the
nonsense and their own internal struggles, they ended up just
directing them straight to straight into the the foreign Legion
from from unless they had already joined like the Novar
Brigades or something, which many of them did because the
because of the Carlos militias. I'm trying to think there
were quite a few white Russians in the in the
Spanish Legion also, and then you have people from all
over that. One of the big big ones is that
sometimes they refer to them as Americans, but it was
the the Latin American diaspora.
Speaker 2: UH.
Speaker 3: Colonials is the term monology as the people from the
colonies who went back when they would they would be
generally they were going into the Spanish legion, although accepting
Spanish nationality was very easy for them. A lot of
a lot of them were Spanish citizens, but so that
they could end up in regular army units. But most
of the time all the colonials went into the Spanish
Legion if they weren't if they still had their citizenship
from from Latin American countries. So there and there were
absolutely tens of thousands of those from what I'm able
to able to tell, there were there were I shouldn't
say tens of thousands, I should say there were possibly
around ten thousand volunteers with the Spanish Legion from the colonies.
And that actually predates the war. Even in like the
Riff War in the twenties in North Africa Morocco, there
were a lot of Spanish colonials.
Speaker 1: He came out as a super chat over An entropy
said thanks. He came out. The more I learned about
the history of the last two hundred years, the more
No Brothers wars make sense despite the differences between European
descended people's.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely right.
Speaker 1: Let me get another question here, I think, did you
just answer this? What was the Spanish speaking world's reactions
to the Civil War? I did are Central America.
Speaker 3: You know it could Yeah, we didn't discuss that. It
came down to your political persuasion. If you look at
and we talked about this a little bit last time.
But Mexico, which was a basically a Bolshevik nation deeply
linked to the Soviets, they immediately went in with the
Republican began sending arms. And so when you looked at
the rest of the of Latin America, you know, the
conservatives and the you know, the the upper crusts and
everything would support would support the nationalists, but the the
Libtards and all the various the various other groups absolutely
supported the republic.
Speaker 1: What do you have to say about Carl, What do
you have to say Carl about Hemingway during the war.
Speaker 2: I'm not a fan.
Speaker 3: I love as a writer and as an American male
when I was always happy to read Hemingway in like
high school because he had a very simple but evocative
writing style, and it was portrayed as masculine.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: But the thing with Hemingway is that he was He
was an egomaniac and most likely a rapist. Just to
throw out the R word there and not in the
based way, but like he was a scumbag that memes aside,
rape is ungentlemanly, but he was also he had mega
cachet everywhere. But if it really came down to it,
here's an example illustrating his behavior. He loved hanging out
with Italian nobles in the nineteen fifties, but he endorsed
the slaughter of those same peoples in the nineteen thirties
in Spain. Why well, because that was like the cool thing,
and so he supported the cool thing, which was the
Republican cause, and he did a tremendous amount of propaganda
for them, total Bolshevik nonsense. But he enjoyed the finer
things in life. So when it came to uh, like
going doing bird hunting and stuff, you know, he enjoyed
the nice, you know, traditional European comforts of doing the
you know, mass mass bird hunts and hand released bird
shooting and everything like that, and he loved hanging out
and doing that while at the same time just unknowingly
advocating or knowingly advocating for the destruction of that way
of life when it was the cool thing to do.
So I despise Hemingway ultimately. And he would you know,
he was He wasn't. He wasn't as cool as people
say he was.
Speaker 2: And it's.
Speaker 3: It's very amusing because when you hear about a lot
of his tough guys stuff like wanting to box people
and stuff, it's my my understanding is a lot of
that was like him, like basically being like I'm going
to beat up like a little guy and tough guys
shit like that, which I despise.
Speaker 1: So so this week someone points it out that somebody
assassinating the CEO on the street is equivalent to the
Republicans and the anarchists and the communists, uh, murdering, murdering
nuns and priests, And yeah, you were quick to point
out that they weren't the only side that was doing
that in the Spanish Civil War. Can you give some
examples or to talk a little bit about that yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: The the Carliss and the phalange, which is the Spanish
word for the phalanx of Someone had a question about
that on.
Speaker 2: On X.
Speaker 3: And so anyway, Uh, they were killing people in the
streets as well, and they had been for a while. Uh,
very early innovators of the drive by shooting carlist youth
militias in the in the teens. They did a drive
by on some anarchists, which is, you know, pretty cool.
But yeah, they're this whole thing that like, like political
violence is inherently leftist, is an insane, insane, retarded gatekeeping
perspective that it just is inexplicably stupid and so so
obviously enemy action. To me, for someone to make that statement,
I just I just have nothing good to say about that.
Speaker 1: Bill Bike's over on Rumble says Franco was based when
I lived in Spain. Only the Jays hated him, He
goes it was before I was jpilled.
Speaker 3: I one hundred percent believe that, And I will say
that a long time ago when I I I read
a lot about because I considered myself a libertarian, like
in the in the nineties and into some point in
the oughts, and so because of the word, and you
know a lot of people saying, well, it's basically an
you know, anarcho capitalism type arguments and everything. I read
a lot of anarchist material, and most of the time
it was stuff written in the like sixties and seventies
by Americans talking about it, and and there would be
really strange biases, like and this was before I grew
up around a lot of Jews, but I wasn't really
j pilled other than knowing that they were different, right,
and it it was really strange because they they would
always talk about how Bakunin was an anti Semite and
like and and and a lot of it was this
was that the struggle in scapegoating around the loss of
the Spanish Civil War and the atrocities that were committed,
because like you and Stormy were talking, and I think
you both pointed out that like they just blamed each
other for the losses, the anarchists or the communists would
blame each other for the various atrocities when really they
were both committing them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Communists like digging up just just turning, disentering
the the nuns and stuff like that. It was like,
oh no, that was the anarchy. Oh no, that was
a communist. It's like you both did they.
Speaker 3: Both did it, Yeah, exactly so, and the and they
actually had internationals, a group of Eastern European internationals. If
you it doesn't take much thinking to realize that that
means Jews were involved in raping and killing some some
nuns in the Northern campaign and the what what did?
What happened to them? Well, they were their whole unit
was lined up and executed and left in a left
in a ravine, which is pretty merciful if you think
about it. So you know, I'm never gonna apologize for
anyone killing people like that lawfully, legally. Knock on wood, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Let's see.
Speaker 1: What were the size of the four boats were roughly
the size of each side at the.
Speaker 2: Beginning of the war.
Speaker 3: We talked a little bit about this last time. I'm
going to pull that document up real quickly. I should
have had it handy sure anyway, So the best way
to describe the forces is that you have official forces
under arms out of the gate, and then you have
the militias that were extant, and then all the people
clamoring to join the side because of their their various orientations.
So on the nationalist side they had the whole Spanish
Legion and then also the Army of Africa, which was
the Moroccan basically local forces under Spanish Army command. Total
between the Army of Africa and which included the Spanish
Legion was about thirty five thousand men, and then they
had about half of the Spanish Territorial Army, which is
about sixty thousand men, so that's you know, Iberian based forces.
Speaker 2: And then they had.
Speaker 3: Just under half of spain Civil Guards and Carbonaros which
were in the which would put it in the teens
and twenties of thousands. Between those two, I want to say,
like collectively it would be around twenty thousand ish. And
then the Carlist Recite militias had thirty thousand men under
arms at the time of the uprising and then which
grew to eighty five thousand by the end of nineteen
thirty six. The Phalangae had about twenty thousand men in
total at the time of the uprising, but they weren't
nearly as well armed. They had machine guns and some
machine guns and grenades and stuff like that, but they
weren't as like fully rounded out and equipped and regulated
as the as the Carlist recutes, the Republicans so again,
used some of those same figures. You know, about sixty
thousand in the territorial army, a lot less of the
heavy weapons though from the Nationalists. They had about a
third of the machine guns and artillery and about half
of the rifles. They had the assault almost all of
the assault guards, which was that subset of the civil guards,
which there weren't tons of them, they were only like
one or two thousand of them. But they were like
the republics. It's kind of like the FBI, what would
be a good way to describe them, kind of like
the the FBI slash FBI Hostage Rescue Team, which is
their little like urban assault unit. The workers militias were
huge because they came out of the organized labor unions
and so like the CNTFAI for example, put ten thousand
armed men into Barcelona in the day of the rising.
That the CNT had over a million people as members.
So when you read about the workers militias or the
people debating in the republic to arm the workers, they're
talking about like literally millions of people around the whole
country in total. But they weren't trained that they didn't
know what they were doing with rifles. Most of the time.
There were exceptions, of course.
Speaker 1: All right, let me see if there were something else
here to what extent Jim Bowden asked, to what extent
as a Spanish civil war and extent of Trotsky's internationalism.
Speaker 3: So there there were Trotskyist or labeled as Trotskyist like
because because if you think about it, the the Soviet
Union would label any of their allies who weren't going
along with the program as Trotskyists at that time, so
they would call anarchists Strotskyists and stuff like that. So
it would it would be like, you're an international you're
you're an international communist, but you're not with our program.
Therefore you're an enemy or a Trotskyist. So he was
influential with a lot of these groups, and he was
he was very influential, but not Evans other than as
it related to kind of the struggle for power because.
Speaker 2: All of the.
Speaker 3: I think there were leaders among all the different left
factions who it didn't take them very long to realize
what was up. They always knew what they were getting
themselves into and the risk of Soviet domination and so
that was always a running part of the arguments and
debates over who would have control over the Republic during
the war. And so the Trotsky isscsscs were definitely influential
in terms of them knowing because I mean, the Soviet
Union was a thing, like everyone knew what the what
the kind of the tale of the tape had been
for the for the previous couple of decades, so they
knew it was up and what wasn't what was in play.
Speaker 1: Okay, next question here, h you're saying what side did
the actual Spanish army fight for? Meaning if you were
in the actual army, what side were you fighting for?
Once the war started?
Speaker 3: It entirely depended upon the direction of your leadership and
the individual soldiers to a lesser degree. So if your
unit said we're with the uprising, like, there seems to
have been very little, very little change in that regard
unless you wanted to get shot maybe or at least arrested.
So yeah, absolutely, it came down to that. There were
places where there were it it took a little longer
to settle settle that out, but in general it was
up to the officers and kind of the mood. So
here's an example of that. The the in the navy,
the naval officers, uh and and the Spanish Navy at
the time was very weak.
Speaker 2: It was very small. It was not much.
Speaker 3: Better than a coast guard really, except they had coastal guns,
you know. They they had they had they had some stuff,
but they they were very much depleted from from where
they had been and.
Speaker 2: The and there weren't There weren't a lot of.
Speaker 3: People who had a lot of respect for the Spanish
Navy at that time in terms of like the quality
of the leadership and their mission and everything. A lot
of it was people getting synecures and and just sucking
money out of the system. That's something that's really important
to understand at the time is that there were like
the ratio of officer to enlisted man in the Spanish
territorial military at the time was one officer to seven
enlisted men. If you can believe that, this is people
parasiting off the system. So the quality of the territorial
army was quite poor. The Army of Africa and the
Spanish Legion are totally different. Uh. The Spanish Legion was
absolutely like a real fighting force and they were there.
I would put them on par with like the Rangers
and the Special Forces, depending like with the caveat that,
like the United States special Forces are technically a a
training and like you know, like force magnification effort, whereas
the Rangers are just pure light infantry. They were more
like pure light infantry and shock troops than anything else.
And they were serious. But the Spanish Navy was so
corrupt and sodden and sodded. I should say that the
the enlisted men, who were mostly socialists, because it was
you know, where where are where are navy navy units
and navy forces and navy bases, and where does everyone live?
They live in port cities where the port cities in
Spain were almost were extremely socialist and anarchists at the time.
That was the spirit of the age. And so it
didn't take very much from the enlisted men to take
over the naval vessels. They couldn't really crew them and
lead them though, because they weren't competent leaders and officers
and they had no idea what they were doing. So
they had the forces, but there was they were useless
like so they they perform very, very very poorly. There
were some naval vessels that were the officers sided with
the uprising that stayed under their command were who performed
much better because they were serious people. So I hope
that answers the question.
Speaker 1: I got a comment here from just a car over
on Rumble. He says, Carl, I like your first book
looking forward to the second. Don't you have two books out?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So my first book is Faction, and it's where
I get this icon that's Doug Shay, which is Joseph
Shea's grandson. Joseph Shea is the fellow who goes into
the Spanish Civil War and gets involved in the espionage business.
Related to that, one of the running jokes is that,
so you know who Matt Bracken is, right, Pete?
Speaker 2: Have you Okay?
Speaker 3: So I was actually heavily inspired in my first book
by Matt Bracken's style of writing, where I have a
I have more of like a literary writing background. But
what I like about his stuff is that he can
write a novel that is kind of like a guide
or a mini manual to certain kinds of scenarios. So
I wrote my first book, Faction kind of in that
style where they they have this it's a it's a
faction that of related to the intelligence organizations and unofficial
intelligence organizations associated with with US government and private private
industry basically cut out companies to to do things, whether
it's logistics or training or whatever around the world based
on the mission, and the guys who've made their bones
can kind of pick and choose a little more which
groups they want to side with that as long as
it comports with US foreign policy. And so they end
up having a clash domestically because of these competing interests
in the in the nineties in the US and Canada,
and so a lot of people have made comments about
how that relates to the street Pew Pew of that CEO,
because a lot of he follows. He followed almost exactly
scenarios laid out in my first book, which I disavow theoretically.
Speaker 1: Got a question over here from Panda Daddy twenty three
Hypet and Carl. Did Portugal play a significant part in
the war?
Speaker 3: Yeah? That the biggest thing for Portugal is they served
in the very early days of the war, as that
they they allowed material to flow through their ports. So
the Italians came in largely through Portugal and and a
lot of German and Italian weapons and ammunition and equipment
flowed through Portugal. Uh, and it made it easy for
the army marching north. You'll notice that they stayed they
basically wanted to. They secured the border with Portugal very quickly,
and then that allowed those the material to flow through
to the the Carlists militias and the Novar Brigades and
the North, and and equipment to go wherever they wanted to.
And the Italians had massive, massive operations very early in
the work ground operations up in the Northern campaign. The
the Condor Legion had a lot of aerial campaigns in
the North, and they had observers and stuff, but they
weren't doing as much on the ground in the Northern campaign.
They did later, but the Italians almost immediately were we're
operating up there, and that was hugely made possible by Portugal.
So Portugal, good friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a this is a good question. Oh
there's one more. I think there was a comment over
here mak Siev who said to let you know that
he did his review under the name Clayton Barnett.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: He says, your style of writing present tense is a bit.
Speaker 2: Jarring based.
Speaker 3: No I know that I know that it's it's but
it's something that I've done. And the reason that I
settled on it a long time ago is that, uh,
when you're writing action, it has an urgency to it
that when it's it, when other things are playing out
and you're telling a story in in present tense that
isn't like immediately action oriented, it uh it can. It
can be a struggle because you have to be very
conscientious of not commingling tenses, because there's a bunch of
there's numerous present tenses that can you can end.
Speaker 2: Up tripping over.
Speaker 3: But I always found that when I would write, like
an action scene or something and people read it, if
I did a past tense and a present tense versus version,
people would say that the present tense version was much
more immediate. And so that's what I've and exciting. So
that's what I've stuck with. And if if it's just
my thing, it will be my thing, and maybe it'll
be something that will stand out.
Speaker 1: Do you know if coming down Muscardo or any of
the survivors of the Alcazar I've ever written memoirs.
Speaker 3: So there were interviews with Muscardo, I don't know anything
about memoirs, but I know that there were interviews with
him that that you can find that were in Spanish
and and are written, and so there's some material related
to that. But I don't believe that he I'm not
aware of him having written anything himself, but there are
interviews out there, and that was you know, for decades,
it's under bless you, under Franco for decades that they
were still held as as the heroes that they were.
Speaker 1: Let's end on this one. Did Franco ever write or
do interviews giving an apology for the war and everything
that happened afterwards?
Speaker 2: Apology? No?
Speaker 1: He there are when I say, when I say apology, yes,
I realized that after after I said that.
Speaker 3: So there are there are interviews with him, but he
was very private. He didn't give a lot of interviews.
And but there are people that have written memoirs.
Speaker 2: If you read.
Speaker 3: Is It Payne's book on Franco, they talk a lot
about that, that kind of stuff. There's a couple of
good Anco books, not Preston, Paul Preston is a scumbag
and frankly.
Speaker 2: Just make shit up.
Speaker 3: But that there's quite a few, quite a few books
where they talk a little bit about Franco.
Speaker 2: But he was very private. He didn't.
Speaker 3: He never, he never. He's not known for being very
verbose and and you know, wanting people to center upon
his thoughts and his ideas on things. He was very
straightforward guy and pretty private and went to church every
single day and basically wanted wanted things to just to
run out the clock and but while also getting people,
you know, getting the country back on its feet. And
so mostly he talked about the nation and the health
of the nation and the state of the nation. He
didn't talk about himself very much.
Speaker 1: Maxiff says Christopher Buckley equipped that Franco wanted to sit
on the twentieth century until it went away. Based All right, man,
I'll gonna end this right now. Thank everybody for tuning in.
Be back next week with the normal kind of the
normal livestream interaction. But Carl, please tell everybody where they
can find your work and I'll make sure to include
all of that in the show notes.
Speaker 3: Great, thank you, uh Carldall dot substack dot com. That's
Carl with a K K E R L D A
h L dot substack dot com. I also have two
books under the name author's name Carl Dahl on Amazon
Faction and Faction with the Crusaders. Faction with the Crusaders
is the Spanish Civil War story. And I'm on Twitter,
which I hate or x or whatever we call it.
I'm not the biggest fan of the platform and stuff,
but there's great people to interact with their so that's
that's why I'm still there. So thank you very much,
appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you