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<v Speaker 1>We're back here on another topic.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, today is going to be really diving into

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<v Speaker 2>the markets, because as we are recording this, the markets

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<v Speaker 2>are an absolute craziness right now. Many people would say, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>the market is over sold. Some people say no, this

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of the cycle that we deal with every day.

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<v Speaker 2>So we wanted to get sal Gilberte coming in from

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<v Speaker 2>two Grim awry, Sal, Nice to see.

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<v Speaker 3>You, Nice to see you pull doing well, doing well.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting times, man, Well, some people would say it's the

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<v Speaker 2>best of times, and it's the worst of times.

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<v Speaker 1>If you look at the two.

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<v Speaker 2>Different market signals that we're seeing. One of the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>market signals that we have to take a look at,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, is what's happening with the ETFs.

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<v Speaker 1>And here we'll go.

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<v Speaker 2>In and show something that I think is important. This

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<v Speaker 2>is the Bitcoin ETFPO Bitcoin ETF says you can kind

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<v Speaker 2>of see We've seen a variety, but this is a

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<v Speaker 2>fairly significant an outflow strink right now. Thirteen days in

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<v Speaker 2>a row, outflows totaling four and a half bill seventeen

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<v Speaker 2>of the last nineteen trading days of ben alflows. This

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<v Speaker 2>came from Jeff Seifert coming over from Bloomberg. When you

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<v Speaker 2>look at ETFs right now and the activity that we

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<v Speaker 2>are seeing, not necessarily with the xrptfs, but definitely with

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<v Speaker 2>some of the bitcoin and even ethereum ETFs, do you

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<v Speaker 2>think this is an extended issue that we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be facing or is this short term pain.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's short term pain. I think what we're

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<v Speaker 3>seeing is just a rotation. Remember, Bitcoin and these ETFs

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<v Speaker 3>are becoming mature instruments. They are accepted by Advisor's not

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<v Speaker 3>you know, certainly, as bit wise has been saying pounding

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<v Speaker 3>the table, They're not universally accepted by any means, but

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<v Speaker 3>they are definitely mainstream, which means that you're going to

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<v Speaker 3>have a rotation of money if you find a better

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<v Speaker 3>use for your money and you don't see a near

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<v Speaker 3>term change in direction. For instance, Bitcoin has been going

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<v Speaker 3>down for a lot of different reasons, just a momentum flow.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not particularly worried about it. I do think that,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, over time, Bitcoin's got to answer some of

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<v Speaker 3>the questions about the quantum challenges that they face, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think that that those are serious in terms of

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<v Speaker 3>big money and long term allocations. But in your term,

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<v Speaker 3>this is nothing more than rotation. You see it in stocks,

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<v Speaker 3>and we see it in cryptos and asset class it's all.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the thing I think that's interesting to me is

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<v Speaker 2>many people will try to compare these ETFs from bitcoin

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<v Speaker 2>to the trading habits of the ogs, and you just can't.

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<v Speaker 2>This is nothing like a bitcoiner that has been trading

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<v Speaker 2>in the market for some time, where they essentially hoddle

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<v Speaker 2>through almost everything. That is a completely different makeup of

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<v Speaker 2>the investors that are going into these ETFs, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's the one thing that people have a mismatch

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<v Speaker 2>on in understanding why ETF volatility is what it is.

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<v Speaker 2>The thing though, that is interesting to me is that

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<v Speaker 2>the lack of volatility with some of the other ETFs,

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<v Speaker 2>specifically to the XRP ETFs. Do you think there's more

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<v Speaker 2>retail there or do you feel like, no, this is

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<v Speaker 2>actually institutional selecting XRP as a completely different asset class

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<v Speaker 2>than bitcoin.

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<v Speaker 1>What would be your opinion?

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's more retail still in XRP. I think

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<v Speaker 3>that XRP has yet to be adopted on an institutional

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<v Speaker 3>scale in portfolios via the ETFs. Now that's coming, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>you've got people announcing that they're doing that. Some of

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<v Speaker 3>the treasuries are putting XRP in, but a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>the treasuries are actually doing tokens themselves. And so I

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<v Speaker 3>do think that it's important to realize that XRP is

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<v Speaker 3>way behind Bitcoin in terms of institutional adoption at the

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<v Speaker 3>ETF level.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and with that being said, you look look at

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<v Speaker 2>because I was talking with an analyst just the other

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<v Speaker 2>day and one of the things that we got into

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<v Speaker 2>was what would be the potential because you're holding it

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<v Speaker 2>I think one point one bill right now, could we

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<v Speaker 2>see a five billion potential in terms of the roll

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<v Speaker 2>ups on ETFs for XRP. And his statement was that

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<v Speaker 2>he felt like it would be about five percent of

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<v Speaker 2>the holdings of what Bitcoin and ethereum ETFs are doing.

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<v Speaker 2>So you look at that, that's about one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>ten billion, again not excluding some of these exes, but

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<v Speaker 2>that would be a pretty significant bump for XRP ETFs

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<v Speaker 2>going forward. And if you're right that we haven't seen

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<v Speaker 2>institutional moving into this yes yet, this could get very

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<v Speaker 2>interesting in the coming months and years.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing that is.

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<v Speaker 2>Unique I think with XRP is what's going on with

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<v Speaker 2>the XRP ledger, and I'll share this with you guys

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<v Speaker 2>right here.

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<v Speaker 1>This of course is the XRP.

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<v Speaker 2>AVM side chain now live with r l USD. So

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<v Speaker 2>now we have r l u s D as a

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<v Speaker 2>multi chain expansion. This is good for Ripple in general

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<v Speaker 2>because it does mean we're going to see adoption across

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<v Speaker 2>I think a whole new set of smart contract bag

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<v Speaker 2>big ecosystems. Is this good for xr Well, it's good

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<v Speaker 2>for XRP anytime r l USD is being used. But

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<v Speaker 2>you think this is good for XRP as an ecosystem, definitely.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's it's just part of the expansion of

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<v Speaker 3>the ecosystem. So wherever it can be used and wherever

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<v Speaker 3>the ledger can be used, it's just an expansion of

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<v Speaker 3>the system. It's why adoption. It gets people used to it,

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<v Speaker 3>and it gets it up and running. I think that

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<v Speaker 3>that one of the things we all underestimated was the

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<v Speaker 3>speed at which things would get up and running and

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<v Speaker 3>in slaw and so as we as we move forward,

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<v Speaker 3>as we get towards the end of the year and

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<v Speaker 3>the TCC starts moving more your eyes transactions, Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 3>think that that the underpinnings will come again. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>the price isn't exactly corresponding with people's expectations, but the

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<v Speaker 3>price is always right. And so for whatever reason you

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<v Speaker 3>see rotation out of XRP right now, for that's short

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<v Speaker 3>term money. I still think that's short term money and

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<v Speaker 3>asset allocation on more retail level, just people going with

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<v Speaker 3>what's hot. I do think xrp's over sold the charts.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, you could do a lot of damage on

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<v Speaker 3>the charts, and you can. You can pick numbers a

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<v Speaker 3>lot lower than here, There's no doubt about that. But

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<v Speaker 3>I know a lot of people who are already starting

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<v Speaker 3>starting to talk about when they start taking stock market profits,

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<v Speaker 3>when they start taking those exting risks off the table,

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<v Speaker 3>they're going to reallocate that back into a crypto. And

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<v Speaker 3>you know, we're in the XRP and bitcoin and a

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<v Speaker 3>couple of other worlds, so that's what we hear about.

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<v Speaker 2>But the reallocation, yeah, and that is definitely the rotation

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<v Speaker 2>CCL that several people have talked about, and I would

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<v Speaker 2>agree to a certain extent. The one caveat to that

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<v Speaker 2>would be SpaceX because this is an ipo that we

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<v Speaker 2>have not seen the likes of before could edge up.

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<v Speaker 1>To a round two trillion.

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<v Speaker 2>This could be a pretty major issue if we see

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<v Speaker 2>retail rushing into this, because many people say that that's

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<v Speaker 2>why part of why we're seeing some of the big

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<v Speaker 2>Bitcoin price and Ethereum price, crypto price in general exiting

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<v Speaker 2>is in preparation for some of these big IPOs. What

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<v Speaker 2>happens if retail gets hosed on these things.

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<v Speaker 1>That could put a bit of a damper. What do

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<v Speaker 1>you think.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's going to put a bit of a

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<v Speaker 3>damper on the whole macro market. I think you're exactly right.

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<v Speaker 3>Some selling is happening in crypto for people to get

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<v Speaker 3>some dry powder to buy into these IPOs. I think

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<v Speaker 3>that IPOs of this size, when you look back at

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<v Speaker 3>the very few times that they've happened, and I don't

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<v Speaker 3>mean just a specific company size, I mean the amount

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<v Speaker 3>of IPO money, the amount that i PO is, IPOs

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<v Speaker 3>are demanding of the financial capital, the free capital that's

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<v Speaker 3>out there when you when you have when you see

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<v Speaker 3>that happen, and then generally six to twelve months later,

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<v Speaker 3>you have a little bit of a of a problem.

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<v Speaker 3>And a lot of that is because insiders, you know

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<v Speaker 3>these the rules the way they are. Your money's if

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<v Speaker 3>you if you go through an I P O, you

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<v Speaker 3>have to generally wait six months as generally it's give

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<v Speaker 3>or take with depending under circumstances, but you have to

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<v Speaker 3>wait about six months before you can sell your shares.

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<v Speaker 3>And you you know, especially the way they've structured SpaceX

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<v Speaker 3>where the employees all participate, that's a lot of shares

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<v Speaker 3>that are come going to free six months. Then you've

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<v Speaker 3>got Anthropic going public. There's a lot of IPO demand

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<v Speaker 3>for capital that will I think put a damper on

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<v Speaker 3>any any markets, but particularly crypto because crypto is still

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's it's more spare money. It's not quo

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<v Speaker 3>for money. Still it's and so I do think that

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<v Speaker 3>people have to be extremely careful both with the IPOs

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<v Speaker 3>and with what happens six to twelve months after these IPOs,

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<v Speaker 3>and understand if they do cause a downdraft in securities prices,

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<v Speaker 3>that is going to hurt everything. Okay, that always happens,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's temporary, and you know, stay the course, especially

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<v Speaker 3>with XRP. XRP has a use case. The things that

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<v Speaker 3>have a use case, the things that are that are

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<v Speaker 3>doing buybacks. The things that are that are either using

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<v Speaker 3>the supply or diminishing supply, those are the tokens you want.

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<v Speaker 2>To be Well, you're kind of alluding to hyperliquid, which

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<v Speaker 2>we'll talk about in a minute, but to your point,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm showing something here from Sary your merit

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<v Speaker 2>and what he's hitting on is this is crazy to me.

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<v Speaker 2>Fidelity announced that it's making a space x I PO

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<v Speaker 2>available to any customer with a retail brokenge account with

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand dollars or more in the account. It used

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<v Speaker 2>to be five hundred K and it's now two K.

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<v Speaker 2>So you are essentially sucking up so much retail into

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<v Speaker 2>these IPOs? Do they think and I look at this,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that the investment bankers have been courting a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of these organizations out here in terms of these

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<v Speaker 2>brokerage of trying to say, hey, we don't need this

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<v Speaker 2>to fail, We're going to have to take in as

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<v Speaker 2>much retail powder as we can to put this on

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<v Speaker 2>the charts.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this this just seems very dangerous? Sal What do

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<v Speaker 1>you think.

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<v Speaker 3>It is extremely dangerous. I think that that two things. One,

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<v Speaker 3>they've lowered these minimums over the years because it's just

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<v Speaker 3>easier and actually the infrastructure to allow smaller investors to

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<v Speaker 3>invest in IPO's works. The other thing is IPOs used

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<v Speaker 3>to be a bit of a frenzy, and we're seeing

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<v Speaker 3>that with the spacexipo. Yeah, but it used to be

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<v Speaker 3>a company needed more capital and it caught on for

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<v Speaker 3>whatever reason, it was popular and it went to the

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<v Speaker 3>market to raise capital. And I'm not saying this is

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<v Speaker 3>the case specifically with SpaceX, but most IPOs nowadays they're

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<v Speaker 3>almost a peak because what happens is these companies trade

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<v Speaker 3>into private equity markets. They're marked higher and higher and higher,

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<v Speaker 3>both both justly and perhaps a little bit bit inflationary

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<v Speaker 3>from the PA side to make their books look good

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<v Speaker 3>and get higher fees. And when they think they can't

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<v Speaker 3>mark them any higher, that's when they go public. I

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<v Speaker 3>mean the p market and the IPO markets. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>back in the day, you bought an IPO, you were

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<v Speaker 3>lucky to get it, and you were almost guaranteed to

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<v Speaker 3>make money. Now it's very rare that you make money

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<v Speaker 3>over the you know, the first six to twelve months

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<v Speaker 3>and an IPO comes out, you might get a couple

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<v Speaker 3>of positive days and then all of a sudden, they

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<v Speaker 3>think tanks. And that's because the private equity guys have

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<v Speaker 3>marked it up as high as they can possibly market

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<v Speaker 3>and now they're selling it somewhere else, and they sell

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<v Speaker 3>it to the.

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<v Speaker 2>Pot well, and this this dumb just because of the

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<v Speaker 2>size and the basically the gigantic nature of what this

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<v Speaker 2>could do to the market is what concerns me.

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<v Speaker 1>You've got the Dow.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now hitting another gain plus eight hundred points on

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<v Speaker 2>the day. That's as we're recording so highest level on record.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I understand why we're seeing these kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of numbers. I'm still in a bit of disbelief that

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<v Speaker 2>this market can continue at this rate. And I've thought

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<v Speaker 2>that this is going to pull back more and more.

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<v Speaker 1>But hear the Dow at fourteen hundred. Where do you

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<v Speaker 1>think that this stops?

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<v Speaker 3>So, I don't know. I know the trend is up.

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<v Speaker 3>I know that the charts look terrific. I know that

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<v Speaker 3>you know the trend is your friend, but I also

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<v Speaker 3>know that a lot of stocks are not participating exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know you and I are experienced enough, Paul,

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<v Speaker 3>We've been around long enough. This makes me really nervous.

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<v Speaker 3>You've got to be in it, okay, but I think

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<v Speaker 3>you have to be very, very careful. I think people

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<v Speaker 3>like Warren Buffett, some of the bigger hedge fund managers.

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<v Speaker 3>Myself personally, I've got a lot of cash set aside

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<v Speaker 3>as a percentage of my portfolio, I have an unusually

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<v Speaker 3>I'm unusually underinvested and I'm missing out. Okay, but I

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<v Speaker 3>I don't want to say it feels frothy, because the

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<v Speaker 3>charts do look terrific, especially on the down, but it

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<v Speaker 3>does make you nervous and you do need to be

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<v Speaker 3>careful here. And remember markets go down a lot faster

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<v Speaker 3>than they go up, so people have no doubt.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well that's the thing.

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<v Speaker 2>If you see a potential waterfrawl chart starting to form

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<v Speaker 2>in some of these assets, many people I think will

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<v Speaker 2>be in a position one of disbelief and whether or

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<v Speaker 2>not they can get out in time. And some of

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<v Speaker 2>those yields are just absolutely get erased so quickly. The

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<v Speaker 2>other thing that happens when these markets get frothy is

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<v Speaker 2>when I start seeing products basically coming into the market

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<v Speaker 2>where I feel the demand is diminished. What I mean

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<v Speaker 2>by that is this right here, and that is bit

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<v Speaker 2>mine now offering a nine and a half percent yield

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<v Speaker 2>on new preferred stock. This is basically taking a page

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<v Speaker 2>out of micro Strategy's book with their stretch asset.

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<v Speaker 1>So what do you think about this?

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<v Speaker 2>With what Bitman is doing, obviously the biggest debt holder

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<v Speaker 2>of Ethereum, is this a good move?

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<v Speaker 3>You know? I think that that the fact that they're

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<v Speaker 3>issuing debt and can sell it good for them. I'd

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<v Speaker 3>rather see them issueing securities because they can hold on

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<v Speaker 3>during a downdraft, So debt's got to be paid. If

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<v Speaker 3>if they get caught in a bear market after buying, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>they still have to pay that nine and a half percent.

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<v Speaker 3>They have serious cash needs, right that can get you

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<v Speaker 3>into trouble. So, you know, I much prefer seeing these companies.

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<v Speaker 3>It's all these treasury companies in particular selling stock on

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<v Speaker 3>the rallies so that they have just plane cash. They

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<v Speaker 3>don't owe anything to anybody, and they can choose to

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<v Speaker 3>do with it what they wish and they can ride

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<v Speaker 3>the down moves. It doesn't matter like the rest of us.

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<v Speaker 3>But if you're if you have to pay your you know,

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<v Speaker 3>your interest to your your shareholders, you may have to

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<v Speaker 3>sell some one of those assets you acquire just to

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<v Speaker 3>pay that interest during which.

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<v Speaker 2>Is exactly what's happening with Stretch right now. In micro strategy,

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<v Speaker 2>they're to get those dividends off the rate. Of course

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<v Speaker 2>they are continuing to I think you know the negative

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<v Speaker 2>position right now that micro strategy is in along with

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<v Speaker 2>what's happening with Stretch is a bit concerning, especially for bitcoin.

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<v Speaker 2>One thing though that continues to surprise me is while

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<v Speaker 2>the bitcoin market and to a certain extent, some of

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<v Speaker 2>the traditional assets in crypto are melting down, you have

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<v Speaker 2>moves like this occurring, and that is Visa, MasterCard, Coinbase, Stripe.

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<v Speaker 2>They're forming a consortium now to launch a new stable

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<v Speaker 2>coin basically to rival Circle and Tether. I want to

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<v Speaker 2>thank our sponsor today, and of course that is Uphold.

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<v Speaker 2>If you are holding crypto right now and not earning rewards,

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<v Speaker 2>you're essentially leaving money on the table. And the reality

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00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:57.519
<v Speaker 2>is in today's market, you need to be able to

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00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:01.919
<v Speaker 2>move instantly. That's why Upholds flexible staking is such a

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00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:06.120
<v Speaker 2>game changer. You can earn weekly rewards automatically on assets

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00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:10.200
<v Speaker 2>you already hold without a lockup. That's most important. You

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00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:13.240
<v Speaker 2>can sell any time. It's the perfect setup for anyone

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00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:17.360
<v Speaker 2>who wants to grow their holdings without losing their exit strategy.

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00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Download the Uphold app today and try it for yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>But first of all, do you think there's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be too many stable coins in the market and do

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<v Speaker 2>you think they have a chance to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>really take some market share away from the two power players?

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<v Speaker 3>Functionally, I don't think there can be too many. I

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<v Speaker 3>think that you know, people have used for their own

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<v Speaker 3>stable coins, so fine, they does are going to be

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<v Speaker 3>niche markets. I'm not sure if you can challenge the

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<v Speaker 3>big ones. You know, they're just so ingrained in the

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<v Speaker 3>usage it's going to be really hard for anybody to

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<v Speaker 3>challenge them. And so, you know, and there have been

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<v Speaker 3>several people, and I agree with them, who say, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the stable coin business is probably one of the greatest

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<v Speaker 3>businesses ever invented. You take other people's money and you

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<v Speaker 3>stabilize the volatility in the market, but you get to

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<v Speaker 3>keep all the interest that that money earns. It's an

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<v Speaker 3>astoundingly good business if you're the stable coin issuer. So look,

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<v Speaker 3>stable coins are a little interesting facet of the market.

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<v Speaker 3>I do think that they took away from people's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>just look at XRP, right, everybody thought people would just

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<v Speaker 3>buy XRP and deal with the volatility. Well, the way

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<v Speaker 3>around the volatility is stable coin. So XRP doesn't become

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<v Speaker 3>the value holder if you will, during the transaction. It

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<v Speaker 3>just becomes the enabler of the transaction used for seconds.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's a pure use case.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, yeah, pure use case.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you look at a couple of points right now,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is in reference to gold and bitcoin, because

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<v Speaker 2>I would.

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<v Speaker 1>Say a lot of the XRP.

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<v Speaker 2>Community aligns very good with.

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<v Speaker 1>The gold community.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not necessarily the same when it comes to the

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<v Speaker 2>bitcoin community. Because right now you've got micro strategy down

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<v Speaker 2>I think ten point eight billion facing its large largest

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<v Speaker 2>unrealized loss. So six years of buying bitcoin, MicroStrategy is

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<v Speaker 2>down seventeen percent versus what we've seen in gold, And

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<v Speaker 2>I hate to say, is Peter Schiff right that gold

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<v Speaker 2>has essentially become the new default asset versus US treasuries.

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<v Speaker 1>If you look at the charts, it.

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<v Speaker 2>Shows more people holding gold now than US treasuries. Where

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<v Speaker 2>do you think this plays out for gold?

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<v Speaker 3>I think people need to understand that assets are assets,

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<v Speaker 3>and they're volatile. And I think people might be surprised

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<v Speaker 3>that the pullback gold can undergo. If you look back

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<v Speaker 3>to the seventies gold, you know, once gold blasted off

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<v Speaker 3>after it got deregulated and we're allowed to trade it,

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<v Speaker 3>it had an amazing pullback. I think it was something

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<v Speaker 3>like seventy. I know a lot of gold bugs who've

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<v Speaker 3>lightened up on their gold and they are waiting for

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<v Speaker 3>a pullback. So, okay, I do think that everybody needs

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<v Speaker 3>to understand an asset is an asset as an asset,

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<v Speaker 3>and the T builds a T bill. Okay, T bills

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<v Speaker 3>are going to stay pretty stable. They're backed by the

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<v Speaker 3>US government. They got that ready return that you operate around.

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<v Speaker 3>Everything else, including gold and bitcoin and every other crypto

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<v Speaker 3>and every other asset including stocks, are going to be really,

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<v Speaker 3>really volatile. And here's the deal, all right, micro strategies underwater.

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<v Speaker 3>They have unrealized losses. So what it's just unrealized losses.

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<v Speaker 3>They don't have to realize them. Their problem is the

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<v Speaker 3>debt that they need some cash to pay off that debt.

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<v Speaker 3>If your hold everybody listening to this poll has some

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<v Speaker 3>XRP underwater, right, are you going to sell it? The loan. No,

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<v Speaker 3>you're gonna hold on unless you're leveraged. Okay, if you're

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<v Speaker 3>leveraging an audien.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't you think the buyer of XRP is different than

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<v Speaker 2>the than the current buyer of bitcoin?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think there was happening.

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<v Speaker 2>I do, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm looking at the gold

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<v Speaker 2>chart here, sal and you're right. I mean we saw

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<v Speaker 2>this pullback right here. That was October twenty one, definite pullback.

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<v Speaker 2>This was an entry point that we did riding this

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<v Speaker 2>up and then here we are essentially on a pullback

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<v Speaker 2>from where we were sitting at. When you look at

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<v Speaker 2>gold in general, what do you think about that as

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of the kind of pullback that could be

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<v Speaker 2>happening in the coming, say twelve months for gold.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, let's understand that gold may be a safe haven asset.

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<v Speaker 3>It definitely is, but all assets go down on the

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<v Speaker 3>black days. Now, right, Let's say all these IPOs break

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<v Speaker 3>the markets, you know, twelve months from now, the arcs

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<v Speaker 3>just get exhausted and we have a monster pullback, and

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00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:35.319
<v Speaker 3>it happens in a few days or weeks. Everything's going

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<v Speaker 3>to go down. People need to understand that everything's going

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<v Speaker 3>to go down. Might gold go down relative relatively less

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<v Speaker 3>than say stocks or some of the fringe cryptos maybe,

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<v Speaker 3>but everything's going to go down. The point is what's

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<v Speaker 3>the stabilizing asset in your portfolio? Right If you've got

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<v Speaker 3>five percent gold, you're probably going to feel pretty good

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<v Speaker 3>about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, and I think that's that's one of the

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<v Speaker 2>factors right now that a lot of people are trying

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<v Speaker 2>to figure out how do they versify? What are they

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<v Speaker 2>diversify into. It's really a new mix of assets. One

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<v Speaker 2>people or one one group of people have been who

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<v Speaker 2>have been all in on crypto.

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00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:12.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking to more and.

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00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:14.839
<v Speaker 2>More of those who have started to diversify their asset base,

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00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:17.200
<v Speaker 2>which is good. They're going into ETFs, they're going into

403
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:23.200
<v Speaker 2>some securities, and it makes a lot more sense in general. Obviously,

404
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:28.880
<v Speaker 2>the news came out with Ripple coming into support with MasterCard.

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<v Speaker 1>This was a big deal.

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00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:34.519
<v Speaker 2>And of course this changes things pretty dramatically because now

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<v Speaker 2>you've got r l uc and.

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<v Speaker 1>The XRP ledger.

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<v Speaker 2>Potentially lining up with one of the biggest retail services

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<v Speaker 2>companies out there.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a big play. I mean, this is.

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<v Speaker 2>Great for Ripple, could be great for r l USD.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll see how this plays out. Granted, Mastercard's got to

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<v Speaker 2>do some things. You know, from an infrastructure side, where

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<v Speaker 2>do you think r l USD is in a year

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00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:07.559
<v Speaker 2>based on clarity going through? Okay, we get clarity, we

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<v Speaker 2>get this onslaught of new products and services coming into

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<v Speaker 2>the market. Where do you think our l USD is.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there more are more will be minted than

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<v Speaker 3>there are now. I mean, it's just it's look at Ripple.

421
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.680
<v Speaker 3>I say it all the time. They're disciplined, they're focused,

422
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:25.359
<v Speaker 3>they're just growing. All this market volatility we've just spent

423
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:27.519
<v Speaker 3>all this time talking about it doesn't matter that they're

424
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:29.400
<v Speaker 3>still going to grow the ledger, the use of that

425
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:32.079
<v Speaker 3>ledger and the use case for for XRP and everything

426
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:35.079
<v Speaker 3>around the Ledger. And that's what people need to remember.

427
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:40.400
<v Speaker 3>And I would caution everybody. Cash is an asset. Don't forget.

428
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.799
<v Speaker 3>Cash is an asset. If you're earning whatever you do

429
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:44.839
<v Speaker 3>in shorter long term three and a half percent or

430
00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:47.200
<v Speaker 3>four percent or four and a half percent, that's okay,

431
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.160
<v Speaker 3>it's only opportunity costs. And as the market gets more

432
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.480
<v Speaker 3>and more frothy, you know, headed out the space with

433
00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.720
<v Speaker 3>the space x I PO I think that that people

434
00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:02.839
<v Speaker 3>need to understand it's ok to be underinvested and it's

435
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.079
<v Speaker 3>okay to miss out a little bit in order to

436
00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:07.640
<v Speaker 3>be safe. What is the price you would pay to

437
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:09.559
<v Speaker 3>be safe? That's all it is.

438
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:13.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, last question I have for you today is the

439
00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:18.440
<v Speaker 2>Clarity situation. Jamie Diamond has been very vocal on the

440
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:24.319
<v Speaker 2>issue of fighting to the end. As he said, what's

441
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.640
<v Speaker 2>your position right now on Clarity? Do you feel like

442
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.440
<v Speaker 2>we're close to getting this through? Obviously some very big

443
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:31.920
<v Speaker 2>deadlines coming down the pipe.

444
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:35.559
<v Speaker 3>Honestly, I'm not optimistic what I see in Washington, the

445
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:40.640
<v Speaker 3>paralysis I see. I'm just not optimistic on it getting done.

446
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:43.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm not so not optimistic.

447
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:48.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to look at the Clarity Act polymarket this morning,

448
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:53.079
<v Speaker 2>still holding at a fifty seven percent chance. That's on

449
00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:56.559
<v Speaker 2>the week, guys. So we've seen a high right there

450
00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:59.119
<v Speaker 2>of sixty four this last week, and then of course

451
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:02.759
<v Speaker 2>we're sliding slightly at around fifty seven percent.

452
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Why do you think do you think.

453
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:09.799
<v Speaker 2>It's just the you know, the the treachery landscape that

454
00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:12.440
<v Speaker 2>we're dealing with in DC, or do you think there's

455
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:15.200
<v Speaker 2>something greater at work here in terms of the banks,

456
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:17.039
<v Speaker 2>and possibly even.

457
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:17.599
<v Speaker 1>The broader market.

458
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:20.559
<v Speaker 3>I think there's something greater. I think that that people

459
00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:25.279
<v Speaker 3>are greed is overcoming everybody, and they're they're fighting for

460
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.880
<v Speaker 3>their own self interest, which isn't a bad thing, okay,

461
00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:31.680
<v Speaker 3>but I just think that that the the stakes are

462
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:38.880
<v Speaker 3>so high that the entrenched tradfi people aren't going to

463
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.559
<v Speaker 3>give up easily. And Washington is so paralyzed and so

464
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.880
<v Speaker 3>dysfunctional all the time on things that need bipartisan support. Okay,

465
00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:51.960
<v Speaker 3>that that I'm just I just call it me. I'm

466
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.559
<v Speaker 3>a pessimist on politics.

467
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, I you know, the more I talk with political

468
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:03.839
<v Speaker 2>political people, both lobbyists and many of the lawmakers themselves,

469
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.240
<v Speaker 2>I just it's a tough one for me to digest

470
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.119
<v Speaker 2>because at one point I felt like this was really

471
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:15.400
<v Speaker 2>an effort that was going to be unified, and you know,

472
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:17.960
<v Speaker 2>I think that the market. I felt like the market

473
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.480
<v Speaker 2>was very behind this, We had the administration behind this.

474
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:25.839
<v Speaker 2>Now you have such I think division between both parties,

475
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:28.359
<v Speaker 2>this of course being one of the big factors of

476
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:31.119
<v Speaker 2>that division is the Clarity Act and many of the

477
00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:33.440
<v Speaker 2>things that are going to fall underneath it. But it

478
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:35.559
<v Speaker 2>really boils down to one thing, and that is will

479
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:38.960
<v Speaker 2>the lawmakers try to do something that's beneficial for the

480
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:42.559
<v Speaker 2>American taxpayers. And that's the problem I have, is that

481
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:44.319
<v Speaker 2>they don't seem like they're going to.

482
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.160
<v Speaker 3>They don't, and I do hope they do. And even

483
00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:51.319
<v Speaker 3>a bad Clarity Act from multiple people's perspective, is better

484
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.720
<v Speaker 3>than none at all, because I used to work for

485
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:55.559
<v Speaker 3>bear Stearns, and he needs to say, we don't care

486
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:58.359
<v Speaker 3>what the tax policy is, even if it's bad tax policy.

487
00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:00.559
<v Speaker 3>We just need to know what it is is so

488
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.559
<v Speaker 3>we can trade around. And that's what will happen here.

489
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:06.319
<v Speaker 3>If we don't get clarity and the Clarity Act pass,

490
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:08.960
<v Speaker 3>we're gonna have regulations that can change with the whims

491
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.160
<v Speaker 3>of each new administration that comes in. It's gonna be

492
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:13.880
<v Speaker 3>a disaster and it's gonna slow everything down. Okay, not

493
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.519
<v Speaker 3>gonna stop anything, but it is gonna slow everything down.

494
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.759
<v Speaker 3>And we already have clarity on XRP. Don't forget we

495
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:22.440
<v Speaker 3>already have clarity n XRP. That's a good thing. That's

496
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:23.880
<v Speaker 3>in the plus column for XRP.

497
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:29.279
<v Speaker 2>Last, actually, last question to you is hyper liquid. This

498
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:32.680
<v Speaker 2>is something that continues to explode. We've seen all sorts

499
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:36.039
<v Speaker 2>of major moves within Hype. It's been one of the

500
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:39.640
<v Speaker 2>bright shining stars of crypto in general. What is your

501
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:42.599
<v Speaker 2>take on hyper Liquid we've where do you guys stand?

502
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:47.400
<v Speaker 3>We're I like hyper I think that you know, I'm

503
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.680
<v Speaker 3>a supply and demand guy, and they take most of

504
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:51.799
<v Speaker 3>the fees they aren't on the platform and buy back

505
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:56.000
<v Speaker 3>the hype. So you know that that's a really good

506
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.880
<v Speaker 3>fundamental thing, and I honestly, I wish I understood it

507
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:05.000
<v Speaker 3>better because the only way that can sustain itself is

508
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:07.480
<v Speaker 3>for hype to continue going high is for the price

509
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.319
<v Speaker 3>I cogin and things don't always go straight up, okay,

510
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:12.519
<v Speaker 3>So you know we've seen that with every market we've

511
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:16.519
<v Speaker 3>ever traded, and so I like Hype, I like BnB.

512
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:18.960
<v Speaker 3>I like them for the same reasons that they There

513
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:23.079
<v Speaker 3>are incentives for people to use their their platforms and

514
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:26.720
<v Speaker 3>they they they they're incentives for those those tokens to

515
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:31.319
<v Speaker 3>be brought back. They're structurally being removed from the marketplace,

516
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:32.039
<v Speaker 3>and that's really good.

517
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, now you've got perpetuals coming into the US.

518
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:37.119
<v Speaker 1>Now this is going to.

519
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.359
<v Speaker 2>Be a I think a somewhat of a new market

520
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.319
<v Speaker 2>for much of the US traders who had to kind

521
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:47.880
<v Speaker 2>of play in the offshore markets in some cases, or

522
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:49.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, figure out ways around it to be able

523
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.039
<v Speaker 2>to deal with that. How much of an impact do

524
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:57.240
<v Speaker 2>you think that has on the traditional strategies of investors?

525
00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Is it is it a big part.

526
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Or do you think it's primly from the pro traders.

527
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:04.359
<v Speaker 3>I think right now it's going to be primarily from

528
00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:07.960
<v Speaker 3>the pro traders. The problem with the perpetual is it

529
00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:11.599
<v Speaker 3>now becomes a twofold trade. It's a trade around the

530
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.240
<v Speaker 3>asset of whatever the perpetual represents, and it's an interest

531
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:17.720
<v Speaker 3>rate trade exactly. So supply and demand that goes out there,

532
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:21.480
<v Speaker 3>and I think it tends and I don't have the

533
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:24.160
<v Speaker 3>statistics on this, but I'm willing to bet that it

534
00:28:24.200 --> 00:28:28.440
<v Speaker 3>makes up markets stronger and faster because as there's more

535
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:31.480
<v Speaker 3>denion for the asset, the interest rates also go up,

536
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:33.720
<v Speaker 3>and that should be self correcting because then less people

537
00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:36.480
<v Speaker 3>can afford to participate. But you just seem to get

538
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:41.920
<v Speaker 3>these these snowballs of interest that happen so purpose are

539
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.160
<v Speaker 3>more complex. People think they're easy because there's no role

540
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:46.920
<v Speaker 3>involved there, not because of the interest rate component.

541
00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:50.079
<v Speaker 2>In the Yeah, do you think warsh comes in and

542
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:52.880
<v Speaker 2>holds the line on just higher for longer, or do

543
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:55.759
<v Speaker 2>you think there's any risk of a rate a rate hike.

544
00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:01.119
<v Speaker 3>I think they would be insane to hike rates, but

545
00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:04.200
<v Speaker 3>the market is saying that they might. So now, the

546
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.759
<v Speaker 3>market is never wrong, But I if I were them,

547
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:08.759
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't hike rates now. With energy prices as high

548
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.920
<v Speaker 3>as they are, the energy prices are doing the work

549
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:14.680
<v Speaker 3>that a higher interest rate would do. And so well, yeah,

550
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:17.400
<v Speaker 3>if the prices were to go back to pre war levels,

551
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:19.599
<v Speaker 3>you could make a case for them to hike rates.

552
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:21.039
<v Speaker 3>If the economy stayed as hot.

553
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:24.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, and you look at the real estate market,

554
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:27.720
<v Speaker 2>and we were starting to see dire signals in the

555
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:31.000
<v Speaker 2>real estate market that are showing some slow down, significant slowdown,

556
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.839
<v Speaker 2>especially when you see something like Florida, where we're based,

557
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:37.039
<v Speaker 2>slowing down for the first time, even though South Florida

558
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:40.480
<v Speaker 2>is kind of insulated, but it's a super unique market.

559
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:43.960
<v Speaker 2>But the rest of the coast of Florida we saw

560
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.079
<v Speaker 2>recessionary numbers. I think it was twelve point one percent

561
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.400
<v Speaker 2>of the real estate holdings in Florida had started reducing

562
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:57.279
<v Speaker 2>prices actively. That's a very recessionary You had a rate

563
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:59.559
<v Speaker 2>hike on top of that, well.

564
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:03.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't see a case for rate height, not

565
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.000
<v Speaker 3>with all the other factors that we have. Now understand

566
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:08.279
<v Speaker 3>the economic numbers the strong, you know, take real estate

567
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.240
<v Speaker 3>out of it. The economic numbers are pretty don healthy, amazing,

568
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:13.920
<v Speaker 3>and so they're in a bit of a conundrum, which

569
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:16.400
<v Speaker 3>means just sit there, just stop. What the markets do there? Work?

570
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:17.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I love the markets. Be the markets.

571
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.799
<v Speaker 2>SALGABERTI thank you so much for coming in today. We

572
00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:22.079
<v Speaker 2>appreciate you stopping in.

573
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:23.559
<v Speaker 3>Always good for thanks.

574
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:25.160
<v Speaker 1>All right, you guys know what to do.

575
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Make sure and like and subscribe and we will catch

576
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:29.440
<v Speaker 2>you next time right here on the x RP pod.

577
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:29.839
<v Speaker 1>Take care,