Speaker 1: It's nice side with Dan Ray. I'm going Boston's niche radio.
Speaker 1: Dan Watkins, Is Dan Watkins still in the newsroom? Still here?
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 2: Dan?
Speaker 1: How come we cot get guys like Brad Marshan.
Speaker 3: I know, Brad marsh and Aj Greyer, Jesper bo Quiz.
Speaker 4: There was like four former Bruins that all handed the
Speaker 4: cup to each other right in a row in succession.
Speaker 5: It was a little painful to watch.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you. I was rooting for marsh and
Speaker 1: I really was same are them you know? I mean
Speaker 1: that little ball of hate in a row? Wow? Wow?
Speaker 1: Thanks Thanks Dan. Thanks for the update of devas I
Speaker 1: mentioned that as well. So Raffie's City five hundred for
Speaker 1: the Giants and the Socks are down eight nothing So
Speaker 1: oh it's another night. It's another New England night. Thanks
Speaker 1: Dan Watkins. As always, we are talking about the Karen
Speaker 1: Reid trial and it's getting a little spirited, which is okay,
Speaker 1: and I think some of you would taken a little personally.
Speaker 1: Don't take it personally, okay. I want to hear your viewpoints,
Speaker 1: but when you start telling me stuff that I haven't
Speaker 1: heard about in the trial, I get a little worried
Speaker 1: because the implication of what John from Boston was saying
Speaker 1: that this Boston police officer who apparently did have someone
Speaker 1: what would seem to be inconsistent testimony, but she claimed
Speaker 1: that she had incorrectly recalled something and then walked up
Speaker 1: the stairs to meet the commissioner's office. I've criticized Michael Cox,
Speaker 1: but I don't think Michael Cox would be involved in
Speaker 1: and he's the police commissioner. So I do not want
Speaker 1: anybody's name on this program disparaged unfairly. That's one of
Speaker 1: the things. I'm pretty cognizant of slander laws and defamation laws.
Speaker 1: So you know, police, I know all of you are
Speaker 1: you know, probably better lawyers than I am, and probably
Speaker 1: have much more experience in courtrooms than I do, which
Speaker 1: is fine not but again, if we're having a conversation, uh,
Speaker 1: and I challenge you on the conversation. That's what I do.
Speaker 1: That's what my job is. I'm not supposed to sit
Speaker 1: here like a potted plant and say, well, John, you're
Speaker 1: on the ear. You go right ahead for five minutes
Speaker 1: and let me let me listen to your wisdoms. That's
Speaker 1: not what I'm doing. That's not the way I conduct
Speaker 1: the show, and I'm surprised that John doesn't know that
Speaker 1: because John is a regular call it. Anyway, let's continue
Speaker 1: right now. We're going to pick the pace up here
Speaker 1: and to go to Sheila in Boston. Sheila, you are
Speaker 1: next on Nightside. Welcome.
Speaker 6: Oh well, hello, thank you for taking my car.
Speaker 1: Oh hello, Shela.
Speaker 3: My question.
Speaker 7: You know, I'm not an expert at all.
Speaker 1: Well, we've had enough experts. We've had a lot of
Speaker 1: experts tonight ahead, right, But.
Speaker 7: My thing is being able to like, why haven't they
Speaker 7: had another judge on the second time around here?
Speaker 5: Why wasn't another judge pick?
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, it's not required if the judge
Speaker 1: wants to recuse him herself, himself or herself and say, gee,
Speaker 1: I sat in the first trial and I would prefer
Speaker 1: to to allow a second judge to sit here. I
Speaker 1: don't think that there was a recusal motion made by
Speaker 1: the defense. If the defense thought that the judge was
Speaker 1: inherently unfair, they could make a recusal motion at any point. So,
Speaker 1: to the best of my knowledge, no such motion was made,
Speaker 1: and that the judge basically, no judge knows the case
Speaker 1: better than the current judge. I think that I criticized
Speaker 1: the judge a year ago. I felt that, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: just my opinion, that she should have inquired of the
Speaker 1: jury when they came back and said that they were
Speaker 1: that they were hung, that she should have said you
Speaker 1: are you deadlocked on all three counts or on you
Speaker 1: know lesser, And she never asked that question. And then
Speaker 1: the jurors came forward remember last July, and talked to
Speaker 1: defense lawyers and said, we were pretty much ready to
Speaker 1: acquit her on one in three and we were only
Speaker 1: hung up on two. And that might be the same
Speaker 1: situation that the judge might face tomorrow or the next day.
Speaker 1: And if that happens, it will be interesting if she
Speaker 1: asked the question. It would be really Let's say the
Speaker 1: jury comes back and says we're hung. If she were
Speaker 1: to dismiss the jury and say, okay, thank you for
Speaker 1: your service, I'll talk to you know, back in the
Speaker 1: jury room, which most judges do, that would be really
Speaker 1: interesting because I would hope that she would say to
Speaker 1: this jury, when you tell me that you're hung, mister Foreman,
Speaker 1: are you hung on all three counts? Are you deadlocked
Speaker 1: on all three counts? Or do you have a consensus
Speaker 1: or an agreement on one or more of the counts.
Speaker 6: You can't make that same mistake twice, I would hope.
Speaker 1: I would hope not, because there's nothing wrong with the
Speaker 1: jury deciding two, you know, two counts as being acquittal
Speaker 1: and the other is being deadlocked. Our two counts being
Speaker 1: guilty or one count being guilty in one count being acquittal, right,
Speaker 1: And I think I think the jury today was a
Speaker 1: little concerned about that too.
Speaker 6: And I'm just getting out of work really, so I
Speaker 6: don't even know too much. I just heard a little
Speaker 6: bit saying what they they had questions and there were
Speaker 6: four questions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we went we went over those earlier. There were
Speaker 1: four questions that No, that's okay, and you'll you'll read
Speaker 1: about them, you know, tomorrow in the newspaper. I have
Speaker 1: them here. I can run them pretty quickly by you
Speaker 1: just said. There are others I'm sure tonight who have
Speaker 1: not heard them. The first question was a question of
Speaker 1: the timing of the OUI charge, whether or not what
Speaker 1: was the time frame for the the operating under the
Speaker 1: influence charge, because remember, the accident occurred or the event
Speaker 1: occurred sometime around I guess twelve thirty quarter or one,
Speaker 1: and then she drove home and woke up the next
Speaker 1: day at five thirty and was then back on the scene.
Speaker 1: The second one was more direct and said the video
Speaker 1: clips of Karen's interviews evidence and how could we consider them?
Speaker 1: And the judge answered that one pretty clearly that for
Speaker 1: question two, yeah, the videos are evidence. Weigh the defended
Speaker 1: statements as you would any other piece of evidence. On
Speaker 1: that question one, which was a more confusing question, the
Speaker 1: judge sort of demurred on it and said you are
Speaker 1: the fact finder and really didn't answer the question. And
Speaker 1: on our question three, which was does guilty on a
Speaker 1: subject charge mean guilty on the overall charge? And what
Speaker 1: they meant by that is that she's facing three three charges,
Speaker 1: including manslaughter while operating a vehicle under the influence of liquor. However,
Speaker 1: there are lesser included charges, which would be involuntary manslaughter,
Speaker 1: which is different from manslaughter while operating a a motor
Speaker 1: vehicle homicide charge which would not include any recommendation, no
Speaker 1: finding on alcohol, or operating under the influence. So those
Speaker 1: are the three questions, and her response on that one
Speaker 1: was a guilty vote on a subordinate charge to o Ui,
Speaker 1: manslaughter makes her guilty of the primary charge. They asked
Speaker 1: that question and the judge said, let me see here
Speaker 1: can degrees.
Speaker 5: That.
Speaker 1: Actually, I don't have the I don't have her answer
Speaker 1: here a question three, she says guilty. Vote on a
Speaker 1: subordinate charge to ouy, manslaughter makes her guilty of the
Speaker 1: primary charge. Jackson said the answer is no, obviously and
Speaker 1: suggest that the new verdict slip. She I think she
Speaker 1: agreed with Jackson on that. So the kid's confusing, doesn't
Speaker 1: it doesn't it?
Speaker 7: And thank you so much.
Speaker 6: I feel so special privileged here getting all that updated information.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, there was a lot of other people who probably
Speaker 1: haven't heard the entire show either. Sheila, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you keep calling it my show. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 7: Thank you, Okay, I will thanks.
Speaker 1: Great night, Good night. We'll take a quick break. Coming
Speaker 1: right back on Nightside, Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm
Speaker 1: you b Boston's news Radio. Back to the phones we go,
Speaker 1: where we're going to go to Michael and Attleborough. Michael
Speaker 1: next on Nightside, grow ahead.
Speaker 4: I'm tying Dan, I don't have a charge of Romney
Speaker 4: pulled over a half hour ago.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, man, some of these some of them, yeah.
Speaker 4: Right, hopefully the hopefully the police officers you can't call
Speaker 4: them crops. Hopefully they won't pull up and ask me
Speaker 4: what I'm doing. They did a few years back.
Speaker 1: That's okay, if they do it, they'll they understand, go
Speaker 1: right ahead.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they buddy ZRs.
Speaker 5: Anyway, you had to throw that in.
Speaker 4: Why why does the judge and why was she allowed
Speaker 4: to leave Colin Albert out of it?
Speaker 1: Who?
Speaker 4: By the way, by the way, I believe the foot
Speaker 4: edge belonged to him, I think, I think, but whatever, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 1: Know about that. We understanding is that in the second trial,
Speaker 1: the one currently underway, Yeah, just concluded, never brought up
Speaker 1: the third party defense, the idea that, okay, that that
Speaker 1: anyone else was involved. I think there was a lot
Speaker 1: of conversation and testimony in the first trial, but they
Speaker 1: decided to take the defense decided to take a different tactic,
Speaker 1: which was that, hey, she never hit him. The forensics
Speaker 1: in the case are more favorable to us, and let's
Speaker 1: not confuse matters. That's what I believe from where I'm sitting,
Speaker 1: is there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, that's a ticking. He's a ticking time, but
Speaker 4: I'm trying to beat the battery here. I apologize he's
Speaker 4: a ticking time.
Speaker 1: I prefer not to slander someone who's not a in
Speaker 1: this case because I don't know him. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you know him, but I don't know that you
Speaker 1: know him. So let's leave him out of it in
Speaker 1: terms of good point. But I don't want my station
Speaker 1: to be sued for slander.
Speaker 5: Okay, Okay.
Speaker 4: One last thing is I don't see any emotion when
Speaker 4: they show oh, Keith Spotty. I see absolutely no emotion
Speaker 4: from Karen Reid. Nothing, no wiping tears away, nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think she did. I don't think she
Speaker 1: helped herself in those television interviews, which now are the
Speaker 1: only in effect testimony from Karen Reid that they're going
Speaker 1: to see. Now, maybe maybe the other evidence washes those away,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's it's it's it's one of those cases.
Speaker 1: I think that there there isn't you would think that
Speaker 1: at some point, maybe when it's over, she'll say I
Speaker 1: was devastated. He was the love of my life and
Speaker 1: and now he's gone. I had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1: Who knows? You just don't know.
Speaker 4: Okay, Sheila Michael, you too, Thanks for Carlin.
Speaker 1: Thanks for your patience. That moves it along a little bit.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Next up, Patty on the North Shore. Patty,
Speaker 1: you were next on Nightside. Welcome.
Speaker 6: Oh hi, I just wanted to say, I'm quite entertaining
Speaker 6: listening to all these people.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the whole idea of the show. It it's entertaining,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's also a little informative. Maybe it helps
Speaker 1: people who haven't had the chance to sit in front
Speaker 1: of the TV all day or review the videotapes all night.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's gonna help people. That's the whole idea.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but unfortunately they're not telling all the evidence. But anyway,
Speaker 6: so the story that the defense want you to believe
Speaker 6: is that he went in the house and he had
Speaker 6: a fight with his buddies and evidently he died or
Speaker 6: the dog bit him and killed him. They dragged the
Speaker 6: body and threw it on the front lawn. So Camaron
Speaker 6: Reid has her car at her house, and nobody even
Speaker 6: knew that John O'Keefe was dead till six in the morning,
Speaker 6: six thirty. So Proctor and all the other gangsters went
Speaker 6: to her house, cracked her tail light, then went back
Speaker 6: to the crime scene and put all the tail light
Speaker 6: on the front yard. It's amazing, just amazing. And the
Speaker 6: other thing I have to say is I've never seen
Speaker 6: a judge give so much leeway to these defense attorneys.
Speaker 6: The third thing I have.
Speaker 1: To say, I must tell you I said I thought.
Speaker 6: She was great. Well, I think she's a wonderful judgement.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not making a comment of that, but I
Speaker 1: have thought that she's most of her rulings, and this
Speaker 1: is just my observation is that she's more a prosecution
Speaker 1: prosecutorial inclined judge. I think that the defense lawyers have
Speaker 1: battled her much more than the prosecutors have.
Speaker 6: Okay, but I think that she gave on the jury's
Speaker 6: slip was quite unusual. She kind of gave them everything
Speaker 6: really that they wanted. Jackson. Really, I think she's a
Speaker 6: wonderful judge, and how people are bashing her, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 6: And also Brennan, Brennan, I think is brilliant. If they
Speaker 6: listen to the evidence and listen to everything that you said,
Speaker 6: I would find your guilty your second degree murder based
Speaker 6: on the evidence.
Speaker 1: How do you how do you come up with I'm
Speaker 1: just curious how you come up with that.
Speaker 6: I can't go through all no, we don't have time
Speaker 6: right to go off through no no.
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is second degree murder is the
Speaker 1: least likely. Generally, second degree murder is an overcharge here.
Speaker 1: I think the prosecution will be very happy if they
Speaker 1: got either a manslaughter or an involuntary manslaughter. To get
Speaker 1: second degree murder, you have to prove some intention that
Speaker 1: she in her mind she backed the car into him intentionally.
Speaker 1: The well the defense is saying. The defense is saying,
Speaker 1: there's no evidence that her car hit him, that the
Speaker 1: car never hit him.
Speaker 4: That's I know.
Speaker 6: But there's so much evidence, you know, Dan, I just
Speaker 6: think if you listen to it and try to understand it,
Speaker 6: the engineers really are very confusing, and all the witness
Speaker 6: so the defense again in paved and naturally they're going
Speaker 6: to say what the defense wants them to say. The
Speaker 6: other thing I have to say is why don't people
Speaker 6: listen to her speaking all her interviews, she admitted could
Speaker 6: I have hit him? I clipped this, it's.
Speaker 1: In front of that all that, all those interviews are
Speaker 1: in front of the jury, and as a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: one of the questions today, uh was the jury asked
Speaker 1: whether or not her interviews could be used as evidence,
Speaker 1: and the judge said absolutely.
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, absolutely. And the thing is, she said in
Speaker 6: one of the clips, she said, I I clipped him.
Speaker 6: Could I have clipped him? I told Yanetti my lawyer.
Speaker 6: My lawyer said I'm culpable, So I don't understand him.
Speaker 1: I don't think oh she said that in one of
Speaker 1: the clips as well.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: Well again, I don't know the context. I don't know
Speaker 1: the context. I suspect that there's a bigger context to
Speaker 1: that statement because I don't think let me finish play it.
Speaker 6: The defense didn't the full clip.
Speaker 1: Well, the defense didn't play. The defense didn't play any
Speaker 1: of the flips.
Speaker 6: They know why because yeah, it makes it culpable. The
Speaker 6: other one thing because you know, I don't want to
Speaker 6: hold it up and everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, by the way, I don't think I think
Speaker 1: that if they had that particular statement. Again, you're you're
Speaker 1: throwing a lot of stuff at me here and I'm
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm back playing goal. And I don't think
Speaker 1: that that if the prosecution had her saying oh yeah,
Speaker 1: my lawyer told me that I was culpable and that
Speaker 1: I had hit him. Uh, that's what I think I
Speaker 1: heard you say. I kind of imagine that they would
Speaker 1: not have put that in the end.
Speaker 6: They did, because I watched it. They did. I'm not
Speaker 6: you know the clip one of the clips you said
Speaker 6: originally Brennan had shown shown it and she said, you know,
Speaker 6: she was talking a lot and I shouldn't have been
Speaker 6: driving on the highway because I had a lot to
Speaker 6: She's saying all this, and then she.
Speaker 1: Said, well, if you're accurate, if you're accurate, Patty, Okay, no,
Speaker 1: but if you're accurate, I want you and when the
Speaker 1: verdict comes in, I want you to call and take
Speaker 1: a victory lap because you obviously have nailed it. Because
Speaker 1: if you're accurate, she's going down on all three.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but they're not watch it. Well, I hope so.
Speaker 1: Well. I'm just telling you that your interpretation would come
Speaker 1: back as a slim dunk conviction, and I'm not sure
Speaker 1: that's what's going to happen. Daddy. I got to run here.
Speaker 1: I got to take one morning for the break. Patty.
Speaker 1: We've done seven minutes. We've done seven minutes, and I
Speaker 1: know you waited a long time, but I get other people.
Speaker 1: The next callers has waited thirty eight minutes, so I
Speaker 1: have to be fair to everyone. So you got a
Speaker 1: lot in and I thank you for your call. Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you very much, appreciate it. Next up is Christine. Christine,
Speaker 1: go right ahead and get you in before the news here,
Speaker 1: go ahead, Christine.
Speaker 7: How you doing, Dan?
Speaker 1: I'm pretty I feel like a in a fifteen round
Speaker 1: fight tonight. But that's okay.
Speaker 7: I know that I might have no right to say
Speaker 7: that to you.
Speaker 1: No big deal. You know, we believe in freedom of speech.
Speaker 7: Okay, go ahead, that's beyond the belt, come on, you know, yeah,
Speaker 7: no problem. I had a question her, Oh U want level?
Speaker 7: Did they do it? Did they do a breathalyzer with her?
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it was a breathalyzer or if
Speaker 1: it was a blood alcohol content to be honest with you,
Speaker 1: but they did something with her, uh at nine, at
Speaker 1: about quarter of nine, and I think that they came
Speaker 1: back with a either a BAC level UH pretty high.
Speaker 1: And if you believe that that you know by time,
Speaker 1: you know if you have let's say you have five
Speaker 1: drinks in an hour and all of a sudden, those
Speaker 1: five drinks have built your alcohol level up let's say
Speaker 1: too and and normally what they'll say is that a
Speaker 1: mixed drink or a glass of wine or beer will
Speaker 1: kick you up point oh two. So if you have
Speaker 1: two beers real, yeah, it depends upon your size, it
Speaker 1: depends upon your you know your your genetics and and
Speaker 1: and you're all of the you know your how much
Speaker 1: alcohol you can absorb. But what they're saying is, on average,
Speaker 1: if let's say you drink four beers in an hour
Speaker 1: or four glasses of wine in an hour, what they
Speaker 1: will tell you. The experts will tell you that for
Speaker 1: every drink, assuming it's a regular sized drink, your your
Speaker 1: alcohol level is gonna go up point oh two. So
Speaker 1: let's assume you have four beers, so you go up
Speaker 1: point oh two times four. Now you're at point oh eight.
Speaker 1: But your body will will in an hour take one
Speaker 1: of those beers away. So even though you have four
Speaker 1: beers in an hour, you're gonna be point oh six.
Speaker 1: That's what the experts will tell you. Okay, Now, if
Speaker 1: let's say you start drinking at midnight and you drink
Speaker 1: until three o'clock in the morning, and then you leave
Speaker 1: the bar and you're caught driving at four and they
Speaker 1: do a breathalyzer on you, and you come back at
Speaker 1: let's say, at four o'clock at zero point one six,
Speaker 1: They're going to be able to work that back and say, well,
Speaker 1: probably you know by three o'clock you were zero point
Speaker 1: one eight, do you know? I mean, they have ways
Speaker 1: in which they can try to figure the mathematics of it,
Speaker 1: is all I'm trying to sadier, Christine.
Speaker 7: Is it true that I heard she had nine drinks
Speaker 7: like twin bars?
Speaker 1: I think that some of the evidence suggested that at
Speaker 1: the bar before the party she had been given seven drinks.
Speaker 1: But but she said, she said that on all of
Speaker 1: those drinks she only took one or two SIPs. So
Speaker 1: if you if you serve seven drinks and you only
Speaker 1: take one or two SIPs, if that's the truth, and
Speaker 1: there was a video cam, so they probably had some
Speaker 1: video cam evidence of that, you could make the argument
Speaker 1: that I might have had been served seven drinks, paid
Speaker 1: for seven drinks, but I didn't drain seven drinks. I
Speaker 1: drank the equivalent of a couple of SIPs here, a
Speaker 1: couple of SIPs there, a couple of SIPs here three SIPs. Here,
Speaker 1: I drank the equivalent of one or two drinks, even
Speaker 1: though I paid for seven.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 7: Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, are those are those bars? Are
Speaker 7: they gonna take any disciplinary action if, like with all
Speaker 7: of this too, they should.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. If they're waiting for
Speaker 1: the conclusion of the trial, they could potentially if the
Speaker 1: argument is in the civil case. I believe there's a
Speaker 1: civil case filed against her. I believe the o'key family. Uh,
Speaker 1: maybe even even on behalf of the children that he
Speaker 1: had adopted. Uh, it's conceivable that obviously the bars have insurance.
Speaker 1: The Bars have what's called deep pockets. She may not
Speaker 1: have deep pockets at this point, so they may take
Speaker 1: her in and enjoy the bars as the Bars as
Speaker 1: co defendants if the evidence suggests that they overserved her,
Speaker 1: like in any case, YEA, all good questions. Christine enjoyed it,
Speaker 1: enjoyed The conversation was yours was one of the more
Speaker 1: pleasant conversations of the night, as it always is.
Speaker 7: What's your opinion about it?
Speaker 1: I think she I don't think it's a I don't
Speaker 1: think it's a second agree murder case. I think that
Speaker 1: that the I don't think it's likely that the jury
Speaker 1: will come back in and quit her of everything because
Speaker 1: there is a man who lost his life. John O'Keefe.
Speaker 1: I I suspect there will be some conviction, but on
Speaker 1: a lesser charge.
Speaker 7: If I had to make a guess, I think it's
Speaker 7: going to face the Uy. I think that's what it's
Speaker 7: all going to come down to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And if that is true, if it is oh
Speaker 1: Ui serious case, but in the context of the charges
Speaker 1: he was facing, that's a win for the defense.
Speaker 7: Yeah. And I don't know. And they said them about
Speaker 7: if they were a hung jewelry, what could happen or something.
Speaker 7: I was like, what, there we go again?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope not. I mean because I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of fatigue with the case, and that then
Speaker 1: is a to put her on trial a third time
Speaker 1: in the same case, but again because because there is
Speaker 1: a there's a there's a dead person here as a
Speaker 1: person who lost their life, and we can't forget that
Speaker 1: when you think about it. I watched your dad today
Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, well, can you imagine if
Speaker 1: that's one of your children who we've all made mistakes
Speaker 1: in our lives than anybody who doesn't admit it hasn't
Speaker 1: really lived a normal life. I mean there are some
Speaker 1: people who I guess, you know, go to the convent
Speaker 1: when they're fourteen and they never emerge or whatever. But no,
Speaker 1: there's we've all done dumb things. And I'll bet if
Speaker 1: she had that night to do over again, uh, she would,
Speaker 1: she would be more than happy to have that night
Speaker 1: to do over again. Thanks Christine. I got to run.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, oh so much.
Speaker 7: People.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, I fight back, but I'd like
Speaker 1: to fight back fairly.
Speaker 7: Okay, that what to say? What that might say? That
Speaker 7: that was still ow's a belt?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's fine. I'll stand on on how
Speaker 1: I conduct my program. And I appreciate your support. Thanks Christine,
Speaker 1: Thank you much. You're greatfull I you too. Good night
Speaker 1: six one seven four ten thirty one line there and
Speaker 1: six one seven nine three one ten thirty. If you've
Speaker 1: been dialing feverishly for the last couple of hours, now's
Speaker 1: the time to dial and I can get you in
Speaker 1: and I get you on before midnight for sure. I'm
Speaker 1: back on Nightside. You're on Nightside with Dan Ray on
Speaker 1: Boston's news radio. Okay, let's keep rolling trying to pick
Speaker 1: it up a little bit here, Dan, let's go to
Speaker 1: Mike and Lawrence. Mike, you were next on Nights. I
Speaker 1: appreciate your call. Go right ahead, Mike. All right, we're
Speaker 1: gonna put Mike on hold and we'll get back to
Speaker 1: him in a moment. In the meantime, we'll go to
Speaker 1: Bob and Cambridge. Bob, you're next on Nightside.
Speaker 3: Go right ahead, Hi, Dan, thanks for taking the call.
Speaker 3: Good show tonight. I'm gonna make this quick.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I think it's.
Speaker 3: Involved in this Karen Marie case. Is a gentleman from Cambridge,
Speaker 3: mass named Brian Higgins. How is he involved in this?
Speaker 3: I thought he was involved in first trial or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that he again, if I if my
Speaker 1: memory serves, I think he's an ATF officer who was friends.
Speaker 1: He may live in Canton or whatever, and he's friends
Speaker 1: of the I think the family where the party was
Speaker 1: being held. Yeah. But but again, the defense has kind
Speaker 1: of walked away from that that defense strategy of saying
Speaker 1: that they basically have said they've tried to simplify their
Speaker 1: case a little bit and not they have not used
Speaker 1: that sort of third party defense. It was a third
Speaker 1: party that did it, not our client, and that would
Speaker 1: have got his name mentioned, I think a little bit.
Speaker 1: But again I've I'm a little uncomfortable with that because
Speaker 1: I don't know all of the allegations and I've heard them,
Speaker 1: but you know it, you know, unless it's really out
Speaker 1: there on the public record, I just as soon stay
Speaker 1: away from it, frankly, unless you have something.
Speaker 3: Well, I can say something, but I don't want to
Speaker 3: sland the noble or anything.
Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. I mean, you say it
Speaker 1: and I allow it in and and if it's not true,
Speaker 1: these people maybe public figures, but if you just gotta
Speaker 1: be careful in my in my opinion, at least here
Speaker 1: on the radio. I mean, you can talk about theory
Speaker 1: is or what thing might have happened, but you know,
Speaker 1: I mean it just we're getting into kind of choppy
Speaker 1: waters here when you when you bring.
Speaker 3: Okay, let me say this. If it's not right, I'll
Speaker 3: apologize now, Bryan Higgins, Bob.
Speaker 1: You know, look, how about if I called the show
Speaker 1: and said, hey, you know that guy, Bob and Cambridge
Speaker 1: and I got your last name and I said that
Speaker 1: about you? What was you think you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: we'd in the street. That's one of those things if
Speaker 1: you said to me, if you said to me, well,
Speaker 1: you know, Donald Trump got impeached twice, that's a fact.
Speaker 1: It's not a nice thing. Probably it's not that it's
Speaker 1: something he wears for a badge of honor. But but
Speaker 1: when when it's when you say word in the street,
Speaker 1: how do you quantify word on the street? You know,
Speaker 1: two guys. Yeah, and I'm just talking to you more
Speaker 1: now as a lawyer as opposed to a talk show host.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I appreciate you calling, and we'll talk again.
Speaker 3: One of the quick things.
Speaker 1: Yes, Victoria Slanders, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 5: I hope it ain't gonna be. I hope it's not
Speaker 5: gonna be. The only reason why I said what I
Speaker 5: said is because.
Speaker 1: No, please don't go there. No, do not go there,
Speaker 1: because at that point, now you're going to try to
Speaker 1: slip it in. I'm the judge here, so it's it's irrelevant, immaterial.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh, yeah, it's not allowed, simple as that.
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to talk about something different.
Speaker 1: But the only reason I said it was because no,
Speaker 1: Thanks Bob, I appreciate it very much. Okay, folks, it's
Speaker 1: not Sometimes I have to be a judge and jury.
Speaker 1: Here Billy and braintreet Billy, you're next on night side,
Speaker 1: Glad Billy.
Speaker 5: Hey Dan, how are you doing? First time caller? Welcome
Speaker 5: to you all the time, you get a great show.
Speaker 1: Got to give you a ride of the clause is
Speaker 1: the first time caller? Okake her right ahead, all.
Speaker 5: Right, I'll take it. Thank you real quick. Once I'm
Speaker 5: done telling you, you'll never have to discuss this again.
Speaker 5: I got all the answers.
Speaker 1: Then, I'm sure you do. I'm sure you go ahead.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay. So here's what happens. They're at the bar,
Speaker 5: they're drinking. She gets buzzed up. Uh, these little pocket lots.
Speaker 5: She's very tight. Squeeze she's trying to get out. Uh,
Speaker 5: you know, you don't have to slam into something to
Speaker 5: break a tail light. You can very lightly press it
Speaker 5: into a telephone pole. Whatever may be right breaks the
Speaker 5: tail light on her way out, she drives into the house.
Speaker 5: She pulls up out front. Maybe she hits the maybe
Speaker 5: ships the rock bump something, some of the tail like
Speaker 5: balls off, some of this left on there. He gets
Speaker 5: out of the car, shuts the door, maybe a little
Speaker 5: more tail like, balls out. He goes up to the house.
Speaker 5: At some point he encounters the dog. Now the dog
Speaker 5: didn't like him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but here's the deal. Here's the deal, Billy, Billy, Billy,
Speaker 1: we've heard that. That's not part in my opinion, that's
Speaker 1: not part of what is being said in this trial.
Speaker 1: That was mentioned prominently in the first trial. So would
Speaker 1: you would you're going to suggest the dog thing, know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You're going to suggest to me, did
Speaker 1: he go in the house or did he not go
Speaker 1: in the house.
Speaker 5: He did not go into the house.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you've got a different theory. Your theory is
Speaker 1: that the dog didn't like him. Why did dog like him?
Speaker 5: I don't know that I've heard that.
Speaker 1: Have you talked to the dog?
Speaker 5: I wish I couldn't.
Speaker 1: We could put the dog in the witness stand. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: so the dog didn't like it. The dog snapped at him.
Speaker 1: Then what happened?
Speaker 5: Snapped at him, jumped on him. It's icy, it's snowing. Yeah,
Speaker 5: his feet of wet. Maybe he's in the garage. He
Speaker 5: hits his head. The jog dog jumps on and he
Speaker 5: hits his head. On the set of brick steps. Okay,
Speaker 5: so the dog, the wound expert says that what he
Speaker 5: hit was long, straight, and irregular. That describes brick steps.
Speaker 1: Okay, right, so the dog should.
Speaker 5: Have jumps up. He's gonna be He's gonna get away
Speaker 5: from the dog. He gets away from the dog. He says,
Speaker 5: he's holding his head. He says, maybe Karen's still out there.
Speaker 5: He goes running down there, wor staying for a person
Speaker 5: who's bleeding out, Yeah, to be running. He gets down there.
Speaker 5: By the time he gets to the edge of the lawn,
Speaker 5: he blacks out. She never sees any of this. She's
Speaker 5: she just pulls away and just went home with it.
Speaker 5: Where there a broken tail.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe we indict the dog. I don't know, no
Speaker 1: one I will say this. I gotta give it to
Speaker 1: you for creativity. I gotta give it to you for
Speaker 1: you win the Creativity Award of the Night built being
Speaker 1: a wise guy when I say that. But that's the truth,
Speaker 1: all right. Thanks Bill, I appreciate your call. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much. You did it well. You did it well,
Speaker 1: my friend. You did it well, and you did you
Speaker 1: did not the fame or slander any human being. You
Speaker 1: may have slandered the dog, but I.
Speaker 5: He caught sue us.
Speaker 1: Okay, thanks Bill, talk to you later. Good night. All right,
Speaker 1: we'll take a quick break. We're coming right back on
Speaker 1: night side. Uh. You know, I I got two lined up.
Speaker 1: I can take another one or two if you want.
Speaker 1: Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty or six
Speaker 1: one seven, nine three, one ten thirty. Gary and Dan
Speaker 1: back on Nightside. I hope Dan is not Mike. If
Speaker 1: we had Mike from Lawrence when we lost him. We'll
Speaker 1: figure that that out of the moment. Coming back on nightside.
Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on.
Speaker 4: Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1: All right, let's go to Gary in Foxboro, home with
Speaker 1: the New England Patriots. Hey, Gary, welcome, How are you? Gary?
Speaker 1: Are you there? We'll put Gary in hold and we'll
Speaker 1: go to Kathy and Wilmington. Kathy welcome, How are you?
Speaker 8: I'm good, Thank you? How are you Dan?
Speaker 1: Well? I'm delighted to hear your voice. For some reason,
Speaker 1: we've had some people tonight at the end here, we
Speaker 1: had Mike from Lawrence. He left. I think they've had
Speaker 1: a power outage in Lawrence. Because we had Mike from
Speaker 1: Lawrence and then Dan from Lawrence and Gary from Fox
Speaker 1: was Gary back there, Robert Hill. Oh good, Okay, go ahead, Kathy,
Speaker 1: you're next, go right ahead.
Speaker 8: Oh I think that he did go in the house, Okay.
Speaker 8: And I mean, I just hope in the end, regardless
Speaker 8: of what happens, that justice is found for him.
Speaker 1: That's a great instinct. I would hope so too, because
Speaker 1: obviously a life has been lost, and we all would
Speaker 1: like to see that. I would hope we all would
Speaker 1: like to see the truth come out.
Speaker 8: Yes, I mean, and I was wondering also about the bar.
Speaker 8: I was glad the woman asked that question because I
Speaker 8: was really curious about that if they were going to
Speaker 8: be held in some way liable, if they did overserve.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's always going to be a question. Bartenders
Speaker 1: realize that they have to shut people off. Obviously, bartenders
Speaker 1: at busy bars can get a little lazy. And look,
Speaker 1: they have these laws that are on the books which
Speaker 1: make the bar potentially liable. They're commercial enterprises. I would
Speaker 1: hope that if you had a bar, you're paying some
Speaker 1: money somewhere to someone to make sure you have insurance,
Speaker 1: just like if you have if you own a home,
Speaker 1: you need to have some home insurance. What happens if
Speaker 1: the mailman's will walking up the step someday or walking
Speaker 1: up the walk and it's not shovel and he falls
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, you get it's it's part of our
Speaker 1: litigious society.
Speaker 8: Yes, And just the only thing that blows my mind
Speaker 8: is that nobody come out of their houses.
Speaker 1: Well, that bothers me a lot, because you would think
Speaker 1: that they would see the activity. It also bothers me
Speaker 1: that apparently the police did not go up to the
Speaker 1: house and say, hey, anybody hear anything, we got a
Speaker 1: we got a dead guy out on the front lawn here,
Speaker 1: or you know, do you have a do you have
Speaker 1: a home video camera by any chance?
Speaker 8: Right, my first instinct considering it was like Jen McCabe's sister,
Speaker 8: I would have ran to that house. I would have
Speaker 8: went right past John and ran to see if my
Speaker 8: sister and her husband and everybody was okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Again, the the inter relationships, you almost got to
Speaker 1: have a scorecard either's covered every day or or a
Speaker 1: scorecard to keep who's related to whom and what relate
Speaker 1: you know, what relationships and what is a former relationship
Speaker 1: and all of that. It's tough. It's tough. You gotta
Speaker 1: gotta can't tell the players with that without a scorecard.
Speaker 8: Thank exactly. I do think the defense though, I do
Speaker 8: think the defense did do well misproving their fairy.
Speaker 1: Well, we will find out, I assume within the next
Speaker 1: day or so. Uh, and we'll have it for you.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it tomorrow night if it comes down,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. Thank you, Kathy. Appreciate your call. Thanks
Speaker 1: very much for calling.
Speaker 8: You have a great night.
Speaker 1: You ta appreciate it. All right. We're gonna go to
Speaker 1: Gary and Foxborough. Gary, I hope you're there. How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Man Dan retired police officer out of Foxboro. I've
Speaker 2: been a canine officer, done homicide.
Speaker 1: Did you know my pal Did you know my pelt
Speaker 1: Tom Kareem?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah absolutely. I worked with him great in the
Speaker 2: in the eighties and nineties.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tommy and I, Tommy and I grew up together.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's a good athlete, good ballplayer.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, don't forget.
Speaker 1: He's Irish, absolutely well, you know his his family. He
Speaker 1: came from the Karins. They had a Karine on the
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty Olympic hockey team, which was like a relation
Speaker 1: of his so Bobby Billy and Bobby Karane. They were.
Speaker 2: He talked highly about about hockey and on the department
Speaker 2: he was one of the motorcycle guys.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: Any way, I just wanted to, you.
Speaker 1: Know, by the way, not to take your time. But
Speaker 1: I hope everything's as far as you know. I'm sure
Speaker 1: Thom's retired at this point, but I hope everything's going well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is absolutely okay. I was going on
Speaker 2: work in security and I listened to your show, and
Speaker 2: I think the officers could have done things differently. I
Speaker 2: think they could have done things better, But I don't
Speaker 2: think in general it was wrong. I think it's winter,
Speaker 2: it's a storm. They show up, they believe they've got,
Speaker 2: you know, an injured person they've got to take care of.
Speaker 2: That's the priority. You're not likely to do a canvas
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood at twelve thirty one o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2: You can always do it after No, they did.
Speaker 1: They didn't show up, and they weren't showing up until
Speaker 1: six o'clock in the morning. His body wasn't found until
Speaker 1: right five thirty quarter six, so the police are there.
Speaker 1: I just think I'm not I'm pretty pro police. I
Speaker 1: have family members, including my brother who worked at the
Speaker 1: Foxboro Barracks for many years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not saying that they couldn't have done more,
Speaker 2: but I believe her statements kind of speak highly of it.
Speaker 2: And it is not uncommon for people to be drinking
Speaker 2: late at night and driving around. She didn't want to
Speaker 2: go into the house. He probably wanted to go to
Speaker 2: the party. They had some argument about that, yep, But
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be hard for him to step out, slip
Speaker 2: her to hit him and he falls. I think she
Speaker 2: loved him. I don't think there was any intention that
Speaker 2: she wanted to hurt of her kill him. When people
Speaker 2: are drunk, things happen, Accidents happen, sometimes people die as
Speaker 2: a result of it. So you've got involuntary manslaughter on
Speaker 2: the influence of alcohol or drugs.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Think it's a pretty simple case.
Speaker 1: Well, let's see what the jury comes in. I'm rushing
Speaker 1: the old because I got about fifteen seconds left that
Speaker 1: I got to. Let you go do your favorite Gary
Speaker 1: call again. I enjoyed the call. And if you see
Speaker 1: Tommy Crane, say hi for me.
Speaker 2: Okay, I will take care now.
Speaker 1: Thanks, Thanks you I appreciate it all right, done for
Speaker 1: the night. Great job Rob is always great job to
Speaker 1: Marita back today, was actually back yesterday. I did mention
Speaker 1: Julie Town last night, who was a wonderful companion with
Speaker 1: us on Saturday at the Franklin Park Zoo. Julie, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you heard it last night. I hope you heard
Speaker 1: again tonight. All dogs, this is for you, Julie. All dogs,
Speaker 1: all cats, all pets go to heaven. That's my pal
Speaker 1: Charlie Rays, who passed fifteen years agoing forever. That's why
Speaker 1: your pets are her past. They loved you and you
Speaker 1: love them. I do believe you're going to see them again.
Speaker 1: We will see you again tomorrow night. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: that Julie's bunny rabbits are up there as well. Thanks everybody.
Speaker 1: I'm on night side Facebook in just a moment. We'll
Speaker 1: see you tomorrow night