Speaker 1: Oh hey, what a treat.
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, first off, my nickname was squid in high school,
Speaker 2: and I don't really have a good reason. I think
Speaker 2: I used to wear my hair and like a lot
Speaker 2: of braids. Maybe that was it, and I did a
Speaker 2: squid dance for my friends. But squidly is my nickname
Speaker 2: for high school. The reason why you're hearing motorcycles go
Speaker 2: by is because I'm recording this in my parents' car
Speaker 2: in a parking garage at Ucdavis Medical Center. So that
Speaker 2: was just some atmosphere for you. This is an Encore
Speaker 2: episode from the Before Times. It's from February twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: Today is April twentieth, and yes, I am in a
Speaker 2: parking garage, so your grandpa is being taken care of
Speaker 2: here after sit down an emergency brain surgery on Sunday.
Speaker 2: So I thought, what better time than to just indulge
Speaker 2: in an encore episode. I'm taking time to be bedside
Speaker 2: with him and my family, and so I am dishing
Speaker 2: you up a hot serving of a great episode from
Speaker 2: the past. Thank you to all the ologists in this
Speaker 2: building UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento. You make me
Speaker 2: want to change the spelling too. Alogists because, Ah, because
Speaker 2: you're the best. You're saving lives and I'm just a
Speaker 2: big fan of your work. So thank you. Also to
Speaker 2: everyone who's sending good cosmic vibes our way. I know
Speaker 2: we've been getting a lot of that, so thank you
Speaker 2: for that. So this week, let's get to this episode.
Speaker 2: A tweet went super dang viral of this ologist's car,
Speaker 2: so much so that her squid hotline at one eight
Speaker 2: through three SI text one eight through three, seven, two, four,
Speaker 2: eighty three, ninety eight she had sixteen thousand requests for
Speaker 2: squid facts because of an Internet tweet that blew up
Speaker 2: and stay tuned until the very end of the episode
Speaker 2: to hear an update on if we ever saw each
Speaker 2: other again after we recorded this in twenty eighteen, as
Speaker 2: well as a fresh secret. So here we go an
Speaker 2: encore episode. It's literally one of my favorites and everyone
Speaker 2: is talking about this guest. Ah, it's finally time. It's
Speaker 2: the moment you've been waiting months for a Cephala podcast.
Speaker 2: Oh okay. Toothology comes from tooth, which is Greek for
Speaker 2: cuttlefish or squid. What's a cephala pod? Met Well, that
Speaker 2: comes from Cephala which means head and pod feet because
Speaker 2: they essentially look like a giant, long brain with a
Speaker 2: mop of feet glued on. So this week's episode it's
Speaker 2: all about squiz and squids and squids and octopuses and cuttlefish.
Speaker 2: They are adorable, shape shifting, possibly alien, creepy alive cartoons.
Speaker 2: I love them even more after recording this. I would
Speaker 2: hug every one of them if I could. But first
Speaker 2: I want to say thank you and give you all
Speaker 2: an audio hug to everyone who's bought merch at ologiesmirch
Speaker 2: dot com. There's pins and hats and all kinds of
Speaker 2: things and totes, And to all of the folks supporting
Speaker 2: for even twenty five cents an episode on patreon dot
Speaker 2: com slash ologies, thank you for supporting the show. Also,
Speaker 2: you can give back for no money, zero dollars, just
Speaker 2: a little bit of effort when you rate and review
Speaker 2: and subscribe that keeps ologies up in the iTunes chart,
Speaker 2: so more people see it and say, what's this shit,
Speaker 2: and then listen to it, and then there are more
Speaker 2: of us out there to delight in primate butts and laughter, science,
Speaker 2: et cetera. So I read each and every review every week.
Speaker 2: It's I creep on them so hard. They mean so
Speaker 2: much to me. Just the fact that I get to
Speaker 2: make this podcast and you guys listen is.
Speaker 1: Like a page.
Speaker 2: CWS says, fantastic podcast. I recently had a dream that
Speaker 2: I was an uber driver rolling around I'm listening to ologies.
Speaker 2: I stopped and ali Ward got in my car. I
Speaker 2: got really embarrassed, and her show was streaming while she
Speaker 2: was in the car, so I tried to slightly change
Speaker 2: it without her noticing. I just want to let Peage
Speaker 2: know that that wasn't a dream. What if we actually
Speaker 2: did that in another astral plane? Anyway, thanks for the reviews. Okay,
Speaker 2: back to squid. Who squid? They look like swim and
Speaker 2: dicks with parrot beaks and they are alive in visibility cloaks.
Speaker 2: But are they aliens?
Speaker 1: How do they change color? Can they kill you?
Speaker 2: What's a kraken? I very excitedly met with a squid
Speaker 2: scientist that I've been fawning over on Twitter for months
Speaker 2: after a post of hers about squid went viral. What
Speaker 2: happened was multiple Jabbronis tried to tell her that her
Speaker 2: squid were cuttlefish, and she's like, I'm a squid scientist,
Speaker 2: there's quid. So I've become a huge fangirl of her
Speaker 2: general knowledge and passion about squids, so much that I
Speaker 2: took a train two hours from New York to Connecticut
Speaker 2: and back in one day just to spend an hour
Speaker 2: with her. She picked me up from the train station
Speaker 2: and told me i'd recognize her car because it had
Speaker 2: her Twitter handle and email plus the words ever wonder
Speaker 2: about squid? Ask me anything octopus two written on the
Speaker 2: back window. Her license plate reads simply squids. It's thirty
Speaker 2: nine degrees. I can see my breath. I'm outside new Haven, Connecticut,
Speaker 2: first time in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: I'm looking for a squid car. I'm so nervous.
Speaker 2: I've been trying to be her friend, so hardcore for
Speaker 2: months online. What if she doesn't like me? Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I think I see her. This is so exciting.
Speaker 1: Squints. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Hi, Oh my gosh, it's meat.
Speaker 3: Hi.
Speaker 1: I getting in your car.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, your license might really slate. So we
Speaker 2: drove around New Haven a little, and at the time
Speaker 2: she was a PhD candidate and a scientist at the
Speaker 2: University of Connecticut, but now she has a PhD indeed,
Speaker 2: she runs the nonprofit organization Skype of Scientist and that
Speaker 2: connects science folks with all manner of people who have
Speaker 2: good questions for them, from classrooms to book clubs, and
Speaker 2: also runs a weekly trivia night through Skype of Scientists,
Speaker 2: which are always such a blast, and you can find
Speaker 2: out more at Skype scientists dot com. There's a link
Speaker 2: in the show notes. But she also wrote a squid
Speaker 2: coloring book. I'll link that on my website. And she
Speaker 2: teaches classes through Atlas Obscura and she's got one coming
Speaker 2: up in June on animal reproduction that is going to
Speaker 2: be whot. I suggest you sign up for it before
Speaker 2: the slots are out. She also is teaching a squid
Speaker 2: class and scept huh. You can love her. Head to
Speaker 2: the Lincoln my web page where we will do linkol
Speaker 2: Belusa of all of that. But anyway, she picked me up.
Speaker 2: We drove around complete strangers in Connecticut on a winter day,
Speaker 2: and we convinced a library to let us record in
Speaker 2: their basement and we talked about iridescent, bioluminescent sea creatures,
Speaker 2: crafty cuttlefish, costuming, octopus brains because they're shaped so weird,
Speaker 2: alien DNA, weird dating stories both human, our own and
Speaker 2: cephalopod related, and what happens when you blindfold a creature
Speaker 2: who is all head and arms. So please get ready
Speaker 2: to become obsessed with quite possibly the world's most charming
Speaker 2: and impassioned squid nerd ever toothologist, Doctor Sarah McNulty.
Speaker 1: Do you know that?
Speaker 2: I for some reason, every time I want to say
Speaker 2: your name, I want to say McNulty.
Speaker 1: Most people do. Yeah, why do I do that? I
Speaker 1: don't know?
Speaker 3: Phrenetics, Irish phonetics make no sense. Okay, you are a tothologist.
Speaker 3: I'm a toothologist. Yes, so glad you know that word? Yeah, teuthologist.
Speaker 3: Do people do you ever say that? Or do you
Speaker 3: ever drop that? Cash?
Speaker 1: No one knows what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: One time someone asked me if I was a tothologist,
Speaker 3: and then again I got very excited, but it barely
Speaker 3: comes up normally, I just say I'm a squid biologist.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're kind of boned by phonetics because it sounds
Speaker 2: like you're an orthodonist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does sound like you study teeth, and squid
Speaker 3: don't even have teeth, so the poor things they just
Speaker 3: have beaks so, yeah, we're hose there.
Speaker 2: So you are a squid scientist? Yes, how long you've
Speaker 2: been into squid?
Speaker 3: So? I have been interested in squid since I was
Speaker 3: a little kid, but I started actually working with stephalopods
Speaker 3: when I was in Right after my sophomore year of college,
Speaker 3: I found out about this lab in woods Hole in
Speaker 3: Massachusetts that was working on cuttlefish camouflage and I thought
Speaker 3: that was like so insane that you could have a
Speaker 3: career working on the coolest animal there is. So I
Speaker 3: like basically followed the scientist around to places that I
Speaker 3: knew who was giving talks and I.
Speaker 1: Was like, Hi, I'm Sarah. Please let me work for you.
Speaker 3: And he was like you're too young, and I was
Speaker 3: like please, though I would really like to work for you.
Speaker 2: Sarah sent the lab a very passionate letter where she
Speaker 2: basically said, look, if you don't hire me this year,
Speaker 2: you're just gonna hear from me next year and the
Speaker 2: year after that.
Speaker 1: And he was like okay, crazy and gave me an internship.
Speaker 2: Sarah has worked with cephalopods ever since octopuses OCTOPI more
Speaker 2: on that later in college, and now she works with
Speaker 2: little credits called bobtail squid, which are an evolutionary in
Speaker 2: between octopuses and cuttlefish. Bobtail squid are little, they have
Speaker 2: a shorter, rounded mantle, and they can be these beautiful
Speaker 2: iridescent collars. They're also called dumpling squid dubby squid because
Speaker 2: of their shape, and the general consensus is that they
Speaker 2: are the cutest things on planet Earth. So I'm sorry, sloths,
Speaker 2: you've been replaced. Super side note, if you look at
Speaker 2: a photo of a bobtail squid and simply cannot even
Speaker 2: or you need to scream or punch yourself in the face,
Speaker 2: this is something that Yale researchers have dubbed cute aggression.
Speaker 2: One hypothesis is that the brain simply cannot deal with
Speaker 2: that much positive stimulation at once and turn some of
Speaker 2: it into the opposite, just some negative emotion, which for
Speaker 2: most people ends up being aggression or screaming or squealing
Speaker 2: or slapping themselves. So google bobtail squid and then bury
Speaker 2: your face into a couch cushion and shriek with abandon.
Speaker 2: It's fine, it's okay, it'll be helpful. What's the timeline
Speaker 2: between octopus and squid and bobtail squid. I know that's
Speaker 2: a stupid, stupid question, but like, what did one come
Speaker 2: first and then another? What happened?
Speaker 3: So okay, first we had like amanites, and those are
Speaker 3: those things that look like Nautilus's those like spiral shells,
Speaker 3: I think a common ancestor of those, We had bellum nights,
Speaker 3: and those are basically squid with shells like long, skinny
Speaker 3: cone shells. And then they brought the shells inside their
Speaker 3: body instead of outside their body, and then they most
Speaker 3: of them lost the shells completely and some keep them inside.
Speaker 3: So there's like squid, like the kind of squid that
Speaker 3: you eat, and calamari still has something called a pen,
Speaker 3: which is like a clear, bendy version of a shell.
Speaker 3: And cuttlefish have cuttlebones, which are these actually birds eat
Speaker 3: them for like calcium, but they have they're like little
Speaker 3: buoyancy devices right in the back of the animal. And
Speaker 3: then our bobtail squid have absolutely nothing at all. But yeah,
Speaker 3: so octopuses diverge from squid and cuttlefish a long time ago,
Speaker 3: I don't remember exactly how many millions of years ago,
Speaker 3: so they're off on their own branch with vampire squid,
Speaker 3: which are not either they're more like octopuses than squid.
Speaker 1: What is it, vampire squid? Vampire squid are dope.
Speaker 3: So vampire squid are these deep sea cephalopods that look
Speaker 3: kind of like a Dumbo octopus if you've seen those,
Speaker 3: But they're dark maroon red and at each at the
Speaker 3: end of each of their arms, they have a little
Speaker 3: organ that has biluminescence, so each of the tips of
Speaker 3: their arms are biluminescent. And then they have these big
Speaker 3: spots on either side of their head. They're biluminescent to
Speaker 3: give the impression that they have huge eyes to make
Speaker 3: other animals think they're way bigger than they actually are.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just look these things up. Who boy, they're
Speaker 2: this deep crimson color and their arms are more webbed,
Speaker 2: kind of like a bloody umbrella with a head. And
Speaker 2: their Latin genus and species name is vampir touthist infernalis,
Speaker 2: and it translates to something that sounds like a title
Speaker 2: to a grindhouse film, vampire squid from Hell. That is
Speaker 2: what their Latin name means, vampire squid from Hell. Do
Speaker 2: they have knives and lengthy rap sheets of criminal offenses?
Speaker 3: Not so much, And there are non violent little animals
Speaker 3: that basically just eat dead shit that falls from them
Speaker 3: above because they live so deep that when things die above,
Speaker 3: it just sinks down.
Speaker 1: That's called marine snow.
Speaker 3: And they, oh god, which is quite a euphemism, is disgusting.
Speaker 1: It's just like dead stuff. And they're just calling vampire
Speaker 1: squids because they're marone.
Speaker 3: They look really scary, so like each of their arms
Speaker 3: has these little spikes sticking off of it, so they
Speaker 3: look really intimidating. You would think I wouldn't want to
Speaker 3: run into one of those, But they're just eating dead
Speaker 3: stuff and flowing around, so it's not too bad. I
Speaker 3: think it's more they got more bark and bite.
Speaker 2: There's when you talk about marine snow, there's poo in
Speaker 2: there too, right.
Speaker 1: Oh totally okay, yeah, okay, why squid?
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously squid are the coolest, but like what
Speaker 2: illuminated you to how cool squid were?
Speaker 3: So when I was when I first realized that squid
Speaker 3: were awesome, I was about eight and I was watching
Speaker 3: this natural geographic like video that I got from the library.
Speaker 2: It was all about the ocean fish, coral reefs, reeves, reefs,
Speaker 2: not sure, dolphins and what have you.
Speaker 3: But there was this segment about halfway through where they
Speaker 3: play Twilight Zone music, and then they introduced the cuttlefish,
Speaker 3: and I was just like, what the fuck is that?
Speaker 3: You are entering another dimension, a watery world between time
Speaker 3: and space where strange creatures whose bizarre pounds the alien zone,
Speaker 3: and I was like, I need to know more about
Speaker 3: that animal. So in the video, it's doing this like
Speaker 3: passing cloud maneuver. So cuttlefish can change color as quickly
Speaker 3: as they think about it, because each little color changing
Speaker 3: cell is controlled by neurons, so it's as if you
Speaker 3: think it, you can change, which is really cool. So
Speaker 3: they're called chromatophores, and these little sacks of pigment, little
Speaker 3: circles spheres of pigment that are surrounded by little cellular
Speaker 3: muscles that can stretch the pigment out like a pancake
Speaker 3: and then let it release and go back to a
Speaker 3: little teeny tiny beach ball. So they can turn these
Speaker 3: on in patterns. So I saw that and was like
Speaker 3: this is bananas and yeah. So I had been into dinosaurs,
Speaker 3: but then I switched over to sepal pods pretty much
Speaker 3: right then and there, and I checked that video out
Speaker 3: all the time.
Speaker 1: You're like, sorry, dinos.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Yeah, we don't even know what color you were,
Speaker 2: let alone if you could change like an LED screen.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That nat geo video, which Sarah posted on her tumblr,
Speaker 2: squid Scientistas dot tumblr dot com, shows cuttlefish flitting about
Speaker 2: doing what's called dynamic displays, so they're blinking and changing colors.
Speaker 2: There's like bands of black flashing over their body, like
Speaker 2: if clouds were overhead zooming past you and through bands
Speaker 2: of shadow across you, so it looks like hypnotic and
Speaker 2: it confuses their prey. It's bananas. They're like living squishy
Speaker 2: disco lights. I get why this video is life changing.
Speaker 2: When you're obsessed with squid, I think that makes other
Speaker 2: people obsessed with your obsession with squid.
Speaker 1: That makes sense, That makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when people are kind of obsessed with cephalopods, do
Speaker 2: you think it's their huge brains or their dexterity or
Speaker 2: their instant camouflage if people are drawn to.
Speaker 1: It's probably different for everybody.
Speaker 3: But I think one thing that's really drawing and interesting
Speaker 3: about cephalopods is that they're really complex animals that diverge
Speaker 3: so long ago from us that they've come up with
Speaker 3: all these really wacky cool ways to get around the
Speaker 3: same problems that any other organism has to get around,
Speaker 3: but in a super different way. Like you know, camouflage
Speaker 3: is the most crazy different one, but nuts. I mean, Ilie.
Speaker 2: Even you watch videos and you're like, are it's so
Speaker 2: fast it's crazy? Are we ever going to develop technology
Speaker 2: to like give us invisibility cloaks in case we see
Speaker 2: like someone we don't want to see at costco or something. Yeah.
Speaker 3: One thing that is really really hard to figure out
Speaker 3: is how cephalopods look at their environment and then pick
Speaker 3: what to do. Because it's not as though they're saying, okay,
Speaker 3: I bet I could do a pretty good rendition of
Speaker 3: that rock. They take the whole like environment, and then
Speaker 3: they kind of like say, okay, I bet this would fit.
Speaker 3: It's like looking for a new piece of furniture in
Speaker 3: a room, not to match what you've got, but to
Speaker 3: kind of go with the flow of the room. But
Speaker 3: there are scientists working on that in Woodsholl, in that
Speaker 3: lab that I used to work for, understanding what cues
Speaker 3: they're using from the environment to pick what to look like.
Speaker 2: And getting back to that stretching the pigments out like
Speaker 2: a pancake and then smushing them like a beach ball.
Speaker 2: Does that change the way that the light reflects on
Speaker 2: the pigment or how does that change the color?
Speaker 3: So ink? Okay, So we've got multiple layers of cephalopod skin.
Speaker 3: On the bottom base layer. For some cephalopods like cuddlefish,
Speaker 3: there's this really really white cell type called lucafhors, and
Speaker 3: these cells never change color. It's just whatever color you
Speaker 3: shoot at them is the color that they give back
Speaker 3: to you. And it's like the purest white in the
Speaker 3: animal kingdom. So there are grants working to study this
Speaker 3: to make e readers better so that the back of
Speaker 3: the page is the whitest version of your eyes have
Speaker 3: more pigment or more contrast to pick up on words,
Speaker 3: which is cool. Okay, So that's that's base, and then
Speaker 3: above that we have a ritiphores and a ritifhors really
Speaker 3: are the ones that change color, but they change color
Speaker 3: the slowest, so they can go from like red to
Speaker 3: blue purple sort of. And those are changing hormonally, so
Speaker 3: they change a lot slower, but they're the kind of
Speaker 3: sparkly urdescent cells. And then on top of those, those
Speaker 3: are where your chromatophors are, and chromatophors are one color
Speaker 3: all the time, but you have many different colors of
Speaker 3: chromatophors all in your kind of palette. So there are
Speaker 3: like brown ones and yellow ones and reddish ones. So
Speaker 3: which they choose to turn on will determine the pattern
Speaker 3: that you see. So you're using all of these different
Speaker 3: cell types to amalgamate pattern.
Speaker 2: Is it like a like a TV screen or LED
Speaker 2: s Like, is it similar to that?
Speaker 3: Or that would require me to understand how LED screens work?
Speaker 2: And I have no idea. I tried to check to
Speaker 2: see if this TV screen analogy was whack. I was like,
Speaker 2: maybe that was embarrassing to say, And then I went
Speaker 2: down a rabbit hole of LCD liquid crystal display backlit
Speaker 2: by LED light emitting diodes, but also jumbotrons, which is
Speaker 2: actually a trademark name and Sony no longer makes them,
Speaker 2: but LED jumbotrons if those were like chromatophores, And then
Speaker 2: I found a published paper called Dynamic Skin Patterns in
Speaker 2: Cephalopods published last year, which said, in the opening graph
Speaker 2: quote with parallels to the pixels on a television screen,
Speaker 2: cephalopod chromatophores, so boom, I'm sticking with it. Don't at me.
Speaker 2: Scientists agree. Now we have more important squid gossip to address.
Speaker 2: So I have two pieces of flim flamm I need
Speaker 2: you like straightaway. I had amazing doctor Christacker on icheologist
Speaker 2: and she told me that giant squid live like five years.
Speaker 1: Is that true? That squid have really short lifespans?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so some squid leap live even shorter lifespans
Speaker 3: than that. So our bobtail squid, we think, live about
Speaker 3: nine months in the wild, so really short. And then
Speaker 3: we think at the long end of things is like
Speaker 3: about five years.
Speaker 1: If they could live to one hundred years, would they
Speaker 1: take over the world? Would we be screwed? One would
Speaker 1: have to assume yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The other flip flam I have to debunk is our
Speaker 2: octopus and squid possibly alien DNA and that's why they're
Speaker 2: so cool.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that one.
Speaker 3: So yeah, no, cephalopods are not aliens.
Speaker 1: So here's what happened. So the octopus genome came.
Speaker 3: Out and there's a lot of weird cool stuff in
Speaker 3: that genome, and they were saying, Okay, there's all this
Speaker 3: weird stuff going on, like it's wait, really different it's
Speaker 3: like it's an alien, they said casually to a journalist,
Speaker 3: and then journalists cephalopods are aliens.
Speaker 1: And we're like a shit, good, no it's not. We're
Speaker 1: saying like alien like squid did not come from space.
Speaker 2: So talk me a little bit about your work with
Speaker 2: bacteria interactions. I know you work with bobtail squid, which
Speaker 2: are these cute, cute little guys, and you study bioluminescent
Speaker 2: bacteria that lives on their underside.
Speaker 3: Right, So the bobtail squid has this like symbiosis with
Speaker 3: the bacterium.
Speaker 1: Right, it's bioluminescent. It's called Vibrio fischeri.
Speaker 3: So they have this organ that is appropriately called a
Speaker 3: light organ and that's where the bacteria live.
Speaker 1: It's really cool. Yeah, what a rig.
Speaker 3: It's an evolutionary like I just shouldn't use the word
Speaker 3: mind fuck, but it's evolutionarily really really complex and cool.
Speaker 2: So bobtail squid have these two little crips where they
Speaker 2: house one species, one single species of bioluminescent bacteria, like
Speaker 2: a bunch of glowing purse chihuahuas, but the purse is
Speaker 2: your skin and the chihuahuas help you live. Now because
Speaker 2: it's just one species of bacteria that they have this
Speaker 2: relationship with. It's way easier to study and isolate than
Speaker 2: a microbiome with a bunch of different species. And in
Speaker 2: Sarah's lab, they're looking at the communication between an animal and
Speaker 2: the bacterium and how the immune cells influence it, like
Speaker 2: how they recognize their so called good bacteria. So remember
Speaker 2: the glycobiology episode with Michelle d'acua where cells use carbohydrate
Speaker 2: flags to kind of check each other out.
Speaker 3: And we think it's sort of like when the immune
Speaker 3: cell and the bacterium first stick to each other, the
Speaker 3: immune cells kind of like asking the bacterium a couple questions, like, Okay,
Speaker 3: when it comes to lipple polysaccharide, what.
Speaker 1: Do you have going on? Okay?
Speaker 3: It looks like that, Okay, what do you have going
Speaker 3: on for this protein over here?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: And let me look at this one other thing on
Speaker 3: your surface. And with this information combined, I can identify
Speaker 3: who you are.
Speaker 2: Talk to me a little bit about bobtail squid because
Speaker 2: they do look like a hybrid between a squid and
Speaker 2: an octopus and a cuttlefish, which is actually how I
Speaker 2: got to know and gently stalk you is I saw,
Speaker 2: I saw you tweeted this adorable photo of when you
Speaker 2: go check on your squids and like some of them
Speaker 2: are totally okay with the checkup, and others pretend to
Speaker 2: be rocks. And it was like one bobtail squid that
Speaker 2: was covered herself in rocks and was like, no, letna
Speaker 2: see there, and and then some people tweeted back at
Speaker 2: you like pretty sure, You're pretty sure it's cuddlefish, and everyone's.
Speaker 1: Like a fuck off, She's a squid scientist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this happens to me like maybe once a week
Speaker 3: that someone tries to tell me that my bobtail squid
Speaker 3: is a cuddlefish. That particular day I had like thirty
Speaker 3: people tell me my bobtail squid was a cuddlefish. But
Speaker 3: I've just like accepted that this is going to be
Speaker 3: part of my life, like having men tell me that
Speaker 3: my squid is not my squid, and to be fair,
Speaker 3: like so there are true squid and like I keep
Speaker 3: calling them calamari squid, but like I think that's where
Speaker 3: you encounter them the most, like this long skinny squid.
Speaker 3: So you know, when I just say, like, look at
Speaker 3: my squid doing something stupid. Some people will be like, well,
Speaker 3: actually it's not a true squid, it's a you should
Speaker 3: really be using the term bobtail squid.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, I guess I should.
Speaker 3: When I have this many followers and this many people
Speaker 3: like getting all up in my business, I guess I
Speaker 3: should always use bobtail squid.
Speaker 2: And they're definitely not cuttlefish.
Speaker 3: They're just definitely not cuttlefish. So to be a cuttlefish
Speaker 3: you need to have a cuttlebone. And the cuddlebone is
Speaker 3: that buoyant. A ragonite is what it's made of, kind
Speaker 3: of Shelly shocky thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it.
Speaker 3: Helps them maintain neutral buoyancy, so they don't have to
Speaker 3: actually put an effort staying up in the water.
Speaker 1: But in the water, but the water.
Speaker 2: Every time Sarah says water, I die, I die. I
Speaker 2: texted her afterwards to ask where she's from out of
Speaker 2: pure linguistic curiosity, and it's Philly. I love it so much.
Speaker 2: So this accent is called Philadelphia English. It's the proper
Speaker 2: name for it, and it's heavily influenced by immigrants from
Speaker 2: Northern Ireland and Scotland. So how you pronounce water is
Speaker 2: said to be like the defining characteristic of Philadelphia English.
Speaker 2: I find it so charming. So please, when you hear
Speaker 2: her say water, take a sip of your beverage, rejoice.
Speaker 2: It's so endearing. It's like sloth baby squid level cute. Okay,
Speaker 2: back to cuddle bums.
Speaker 1: And if you don't have that, you are not a cuttlefish.
Speaker 1: That's basic, like cuddlefish want to work.
Speaker 2: If anyone's out there, that's like, I'm pretty sure I'm
Speaker 2: a cuttlefish.
Speaker 3: Like check yourself, check your back, like are you do
Speaker 3: you have diff and yeah, then you're a cuddle that's
Speaker 3: probably true.
Speaker 2: You're a cuddlefish once you have ascertained if you were
Speaker 2: a cuttlefish. How do you know if you're being a
Speaker 2: dick on the internet? Okay, Sarah has not only a
Speaker 2: lot of forgiveness and total compassion, but also kind of
Speaker 2: an easy test for this for anyone.
Speaker 3: Ask yourself before you correct someone if you're right, and
Speaker 3: if you are, proceed and say it in a way
Speaker 3: that's like not hey, you're wrong, just say like I'm
Speaker 3: not sure, but I think you're wrong, and that goes
Speaker 3: over better. And also if you get caught out from
Speaker 3: man's plaining, like say sorry, right, and also if people
Speaker 3: apologize for man's planning, like let them go, Like they apologize,
Speaker 3: like everybody has a douchey moment and they're life. Things
Speaker 3: can get so overblown so fast online and like yeah,
Speaker 3: things can really snowball, so just try to be nice
Speaker 3: to everybody.
Speaker 1: They can marine snowball.
Speaker 3: They can marine snowball. That would be the grossest snowball
Speaker 3: you've ever seen.
Speaker 2: Whatever your position on eating cephalopods, what is it okay?
Speaker 3: So toothoid squid I eat those are like your calamar
Speaker 3: squid and bobtail squid are so small that you'd have
Speaker 3: to they would be like eating stuff mushrooms, Like they're
Speaker 3: so little, and so I don't eat those, partially because
Speaker 3: it would take a lot of work, and partially because
Speaker 3: I've raised them from like eggs, like from day one,
Speaker 3: I'm like a little weird or squid mom, Like I
Speaker 3: can't eat them. I don't eat cuttlefish because I think
Speaker 3: they're so stink and cute that like I.
Speaker 1: Couldn't do it.
Speaker 3: And I've raised those two and they're like clever and
Speaker 3: cute and friendly and like when you feed them, they
Speaker 3: like know you and they'll normally like snuggle next to
Speaker 3: the seaweed. And then if someone that they know comes
Speaker 3: in that like they know will feed them, that like
Speaker 3: come out of the seaweed and like say, huh hi.
Speaker 1: I had this one cuddlefish.
Speaker 3: It was like cuddlefish number three or whatever, that anytime
Speaker 3: I came in the room, he wouldn't just like come
Speaker 3: out of his seaweed, he would like bob his head
Speaker 3: out of the water, and it like.
Speaker 1: It was the cutest.
Speaker 3: It was like the highlight of my day every day
Speaker 3: getting greeted by cuddlefish number three. And when Cuddlefish three
Speaker 3: got sick and died, I like cried in the bathroom
Speaker 3: for fifteen minutes. I was so solid because he was
Speaker 3: just like so cute and so friendly, and so I
Speaker 3: kind of think like having cuttlefish around is like having
Speaker 3: a dog around, Like they're wagging their tail and they're
Speaker 3: happy to see you and they're just like, wow, you're
Speaker 3: just the best. And then octopuses are like the jerk
Speaker 3: cats that are like some of them are nice, some
Speaker 3: of them are friendly, but a lot of them are
Speaker 3: just like you know, I couldn't give a shit. A
Speaker 3: few liver died and that was I've only worked with
Speaker 3: octopus bimaculoid is the two spot, the California two spot octopus.
Speaker 3: So maybe it's just them that are sometimes jerks. So
Speaker 3: I had eight of them in college, and I not
Speaker 3: like in my dorm room, like in the lab. That
Speaker 3: would be a cool sign project, but not safe. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I would like feed them. So you feed them crabs
Speaker 3: or whatever you feed them. I fed them crabs and
Speaker 3: they stack their little crabshells in a little pile, which
Speaker 3: is like really.
Speaker 1: Cute because they want to keep things neat and clean.
Speaker 3: So I would like come in to clean their tank,
Speaker 3: and sometimes they would like play with my hands or whatever.
Speaker 3: I gave them rubber duckies, so they might like pull
Speaker 3: the rubber ducky to the bottom of the tank.
Speaker 1: Let go.
Speaker 3: Some of them would like squirt me in the face
Speaker 3: every single day, and I don't know if they were
Speaker 3: just like playing, like hey girl, let me squirt you
Speaker 3: in the face. You look a little dry, but that's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Let me help you. And others would just cower in
Speaker 1: their tanks.
Speaker 3: When I was around, I was like, I feed you,
Speaker 3: I don't touch you, I don't hurt you, Like why
Speaker 3: are you afraid of me? But maybe a human out
Speaker 3: in California before they were caught was mean to them.
Speaker 3: Or maybe they just have good survival instincts.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe they're plotting a takeover of the world.
Speaker 1: Maybe takeover. That's true.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of stories of octopuses really wreaking
Speaker 3: havoc in aquaria.
Speaker 2: It didn't strike me until I was editing this. Wait,
Speaker 2: wait what Okay, the plural of aquarium is aquaria.
Speaker 1: What what?
Speaker 2: Okay? Aquariums is still considered fine, but aquaria is more correct. Also,
Speaker 2: jumbotrons are typically located in sports STADIU sit with that. Okay,
Speaker 2: back to how and why an octopus can GTFO your
Speaker 2: aquarium aquaria.
Speaker 3: You basically need to like make sure the tank is
Speaker 3: completely locked down and has no areas that they can
Speaker 3: escape that are way smaller than you think they can
Speaker 3: escape from because they can squeeze through anything the size
Speaker 3: of their beak, and their beak is way smaller than
Speaker 3: their head.
Speaker 1: How do you gotta watch out for that? How do
Speaker 1: their brains squish? So? Squid and octopus brands are bizarre?
Speaker 1: They so they're okay.
Speaker 3: So you've got a beak in the middle surrounded by
Speaker 3: arms and tentacles if you're a squid, so two tentacles
Speaker 3: and eight arms.
Speaker 1: Everybody's got eight arms.
Speaker 3: And then they're digestive, like their esophagus goes through their brain.
Speaker 3: Their brain is like doughnut shaped what and goes around
Speaker 3: their esophagus. So things are just like squashing all the time.
Speaker 3: So some cephalopods you can't squash them, Like you can't
Speaker 3: squash a cuttlefish because it cuddle bone is big and
Speaker 3: you can't squash it. But octopuses can squash through all
Speaker 3: kinds of stuff. I don't know if it's like uncomfortable,
Speaker 3: because like we can do things that are uncomfortable, like
Speaker 3: right hard yoga positions that we can do, but like
Speaker 3: flying coach, sure, flying god, that's really unpleasant, but you
Speaker 3: can do it. You know it'll get you from me
Speaker 3: to B which is probably what the octopus is trying
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know. They it doesn't hurt them
Speaker 1: long term, I guess.
Speaker 2: And why do some of this squid say they're totally
Speaker 2: fine with the checkup and why are others like nah,
Speaker 2: nothing to see.
Speaker 1: I think this is just like a personality thing.
Speaker 3: So just like there are cats that when people come
Speaker 3: to the house, they hide into the bed, and others
Speaker 3: they're like, yeh, what up. My name's Rupert, like please me,
Speaker 3: Like I think some of them just are anxious little
Speaker 3: anchors and other of others of them are like I've
Speaker 3: been here the whole time. You haven't killed me yet,
Speaker 3: like let's just do this whatever. And when I'm raising
Speaker 3: the squid, they see me every day. My hands are
Speaker 3: in their tanks every day, like they get used to
Speaker 3: the blue nail polish and whatever that comes along with me.
Speaker 3: Although I think they're colorblind, so they probably don't know
Speaker 3: that my nail polish is blue.
Speaker 1: They're color blind, but they have chromatophores. Yeah, how wacky
Speaker 1: is that? So I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think octopus are colorblind, but I like wouldn't bet
Speaker 3: my life on that. I'm sure that cuddlefish are. So
Speaker 3: they can only see like tones of green, we think, which,
Speaker 3: how the hell do they figure out what to do?
Speaker 1: We don't know. There was this proposed experiment.
Speaker 3: Whether they were thinking, Okay, maybe there's like another way
Speaker 3: for them to see color that we aren't aware of,
Speaker 3: so we'll just blind them and see if they can
Speaker 3: change color and match their surroundings, but the scientist didn't
Speaker 3: want to blind a little baby cuddlefish because that would
Speaker 3: make you really sad, so it never got done.
Speaker 1: The next time.
Speaker 3: People are like, scientists are just cold hard, they'll kill
Speaker 3: any like no, sometimes we feel so bad that we
Speaker 3: just won't do it and won't get the answer. But anyway,
Speaker 3: I digress.
Speaker 2: You can blindfold them and just be like close your eyes,
Speaker 2: close your eyes.
Speaker 3: We thought about doing that, but as we mentioned, cephalopods
Speaker 3: are real squishy, so we were like, what would happen
Speaker 3: if we like took those goggles that you put on
Speaker 3: when people go tanning, yeah, and just like stick them
Speaker 3: on a cuttlefish.
Speaker 1: So we like tried.
Speaker 3: They basically reached their arms back and like pull it
Speaker 3: off their face. So if you think it's hard to
Speaker 3: like blindfold a dog, like this is a squishy headed
Speaker 3: dog that has opposable everything, so like they can just
Speaker 3: yoank stuff right out.
Speaker 1: And multiples of arms, yeah, like eight of them.
Speaker 2: Side note arms versus tentacles. It's a thing. Octopuses have
Speaker 2: eight arms, but squid and cuttlefish have eight arms plus
Speaker 2: two tentacles. The tentacles are the two longer stretchy ones.
Speaker 2: With the grippy clubs on the end of them, and
Speaker 2: the clubs have these circular serrated rings kind of like teeth,
Speaker 2: so they can whip out and catch stuff, which would
Speaker 2: be so handy if you were like sitting on a
Speaker 2: couch and your bag of Cheetos was across the room
Speaker 2: and you were like, wow, okay, you wanted to make
Speaker 2: sensual love to someone but didn't want to walk over
Speaker 2: to them. Tentacles also helpful, And.
Speaker 1: Now what about for sexing?
Speaker 2: I heard that an octopus will just use the end
Speaker 2: of an arm like a paddle covered in sperms and
Speaker 2: then be like hey, sensus something and like send it
Speaker 2: swimming over to a lady like use this, use this
Speaker 2: and make some babies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there. Cephalopod sex is varied and wacky. So yeah,
Speaker 3: let's just like talk about it because there's a lot
Speaker 3: to talk about here. So I don't even know where
Speaker 3: to begin. So in deep sea squid, not all deep
Speaker 3: sea squid, but this one deep sea squid whose genus
Speaker 3: and species name obviously is not coming to me right.
Speaker 2: Now, googled and it's Octoputoothus delectron for those taking notes.
Speaker 3: They see each other, So rarely that when they see
Speaker 3: another squid, like, they don't care if it's male squid,
Speaker 3: they don't care if it's a female squid. When the male
Speaker 3: squid see another squid, they will punch through the body
Speaker 3: cavity and just like stick sperm somewhere in there. What
Speaker 3: So like if you think you've had a bad date,
Speaker 3: I'm sure you have, but at least no one literally
Speaker 3: punched sperm through your abs.
Speaker 1: Like no, and they don't even verify, verify No, there's like, oh,
Speaker 1: that could be a squid.
Speaker 3: And then it's like, oh, so there are just like
Speaker 3: male squid getting sperm stuck on the inside female squid
Speaker 3: against wam.
Speaker 1: Just sounds like a terrible approach. But do they survive it? Yeah? Yeah, God,
Speaker 1: so I would.
Speaker 2: I would change myself into an invisibility cloak all the time,
Speaker 2: no wonder.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, yeah, there's no squid here. I got
Speaker 1: to get out of here. And this is the pits.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the dating scene of the deep Sea is is
Speaker 3: no good. Uh okay, let's talk about something better. So
Speaker 3: we've got the giant Australian cut off. This is like
Speaker 3: my favorite cephalopod tail out there. So these these cuddlefish
Speaker 3: are like a meter long. They're huge and beautiful. So
Speaker 3: the males are like, okay, if you can picture a
Speaker 3: cudle fish, if you've never seen a cuttlefish before, picture
Speaker 3: a rugby ball with like a bed skirt around the outside,
Speaker 3: and then like a little stupid face with eight arms.
Speaker 1: So you're there, we're there.
Speaker 3: And now the males have these two big arms that
Speaker 3: kind of are like flopping down on either side. They're
Speaker 3: really big and kind of billowy, and they kind of
Speaker 3: look like someone put on a shirt that's way too
Speaker 3: big for them, and that's their skin. And they're purple
Speaker 3: and blue and beautiful and roughly.
Speaker 2: Honestly, with their arms like right in front of their eyes,
Speaker 2: they look like heavily mustachioed, like Ron Swanson types, or
Speaker 2: like a bristle lipped cop from an old movie. And
Speaker 2: now the female of the species is much smaller, and
Speaker 2: they tend to put on more maroon splotchy patterns, so
Speaker 2: they're easily distinguished from the ma by the size and
Speaker 2: the color. Well, most males, and there are a lot
Speaker 2: of males in the breeding frenzies, which I propose I
Speaker 2: think they should call them cuddle parties.
Speaker 3: Hey, it's quite a battle because there's like ten males
Speaker 3: to every one female out there, so yeah, it's a
Speaker 3: tough it's a tough sausage parties. It's a sausage vest. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So the big males will basically battle each other. They'll wrestle,
Speaker 3: and the winner of the wrestling match, which is like
Speaker 3: hilarious because like watching two like comforters battle is like
Speaker 3: pretty funny.
Speaker 1: So there, yet there's like flu feed.
Speaker 3: Tentacles everywhere, arms rather everywhere, and the winner gets access
Speaker 3: to the female for at least a bit of time
Speaker 3: mates with her, and then the females meanwhile mating with
Speaker 3: many males throughout this time period and storing the sperm
Speaker 3: from each male in these little pockets that she's got
Speaker 3: in her arms, and she's like just keeping her rolodex
Speaker 3: of sperm ready to go. And then when she actually
Speaker 3: laser eggs, she gets to kind of pick who she
Speaker 3: liked and who she didn't like.
Speaker 2: Does she remember? Because I can't. That sounds like the
Speaker 2: season premiere of the Bachelor. Basically, I guess she does.
Speaker 2: How does she do it?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: They're very organized, So Okay, that's already pretty cool. But
Speaker 3: then you have these little males and they know they
Speaker 3: don't stand a chance against the big males. If they
Speaker 3: get in a battle, they're gonna lose. So they got
Speaker 3: to think of something else to do, so they will
Speaker 3: cross dress. Basically, they take those two big billowy arms
Speaker 3: in the side and they just tuck them a la
Speaker 3: Rue Paul's drag race and no they do. And then
Speaker 3: they put on this like the modey pattern of the female.
Speaker 3: And then they just like swim on over to the
Speaker 3: female and they're like.
Speaker 1: Hey girl.
Speaker 3: And then when the male is like, I'm killing it.
Speaker 3: I got two ladies. This is the best day ever, yo, Joe.
Speaker 3: And then while he goes to talk to his friend,
Speaker 3: the little male is like ps a dude mates with
Speaker 3: the female, leaves really fast so that he doesn't get
Speaker 3: it as kicked by the big male. And then when
Speaker 3: the female goes to lay her eggs, so she's got
Speaker 3: her eggs like all back up in the mantle and
Speaker 3: she fertilizes them one by one and puts them in
Speaker 3: a little egg clutch on the bottom of the ocean.
Speaker 3: So when she goes to do that, like I said before,
Speaker 3: she can choose who she liked and those males, the
Speaker 3: little males that cross dress, they get a bigger proportion
Speaker 3: of the eggs than the big males.
Speaker 1: Why.
Speaker 3: I guess they want to Like maybe the females liked intelligence, Like.
Speaker 1: Hey, that was pretty smart.
Speaker 3: So if we're ever like, how did those stephalopods get
Speaker 3: so smart, it's like, well, here's one way they're choosing
Speaker 3: for it.
Speaker 2: So it sounds like the like the worst rom com
Speaker 2: plot ever. So they're able to change their pattern to
Speaker 2: look like a lady.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's all like so we talk about like
Speaker 3: and I might get yelled after this, but like we
Speaker 3: talk about gender being obviously different from sex, and you
Speaker 3: only have gender when there's society, you know, so like
Speaker 3: we normally we're only like, well, gender is only true
Speaker 3: in humans because only humans have society. And it's like,
Speaker 3: and yet if you can cross stress and put on
Speaker 3: different like cultural patterns and signals of being a male
Speaker 3: or female, like do cuttlefish kind of have gender?
Speaker 1: Like maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 3: A gender and sexuality scientist. I'm a squid scientist. But
Speaker 3: food for thought for us to all think about as
Speaker 3: we go about our day.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of like how US ladies like
Speaker 2: funny ugly guys. Yeah, totally, You're like, you've got a
Speaker 2: good brain. Yeah, I don't need a jaw line. That's
Speaker 2: so fascinating. I always like to ask, is there a
Speaker 2: movie about cephalopods that you hate or love?
Speaker 3: All? Right? Whale Leagues under the Sea has a giant squid.
Speaker 3: There are certainly no movies about squid biologists that I'm
Speaker 3: aware of.
Speaker 2: Are there any sea creatures like giant squid and any
Speaker 2: of the pirates in the.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is the krack and one of them. But yeah,
Speaker 3: we can talk about that because that kraken upsets me. Okay, So,
Speaker 3: like we've said, cephalopods have beaks, and this kraken when
Speaker 3: it comes out now, of course, like the kracken is
Speaker 3: a mythological creature, but the kraken that was the mythological
Speaker 3: creature we've shown it's probably a giant squid. So I
Speaker 3: denounced the fact that it's mythological.
Speaker 1: It's real.
Speaker 3: Uh so whatever, soode it's like, stick with what's real.
Speaker 3: And so the kraken in that movie has like rings
Speaker 3: of teeth like a shark sort of, but like there's
Speaker 3: no beak in there. It's just rings of teeth. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, come on, man, you we have access to
Speaker 3: what those animals look like. Beaks are scary enough, we need.
Speaker 1: Rings of teeth. What a horrifying What do the beaks
Speaker 1: look like?
Speaker 2: And where did those come from from an evolutionary standpoint?
Speaker 4: Who?
Speaker 3: I don't know where they came from from an evolutionary standpoint,
Speaker 3: but they look like sharp parrot beaks kind of, they're
Speaker 3: like brown parrot beaks. I should have brought them because
Speaker 3: I have a collection squid peaks, which is something that
Speaker 3: we don't mention on the first date, which I'm going
Speaker 3: to tell you a story that I've never told on
Speaker 3: a podcast before. Yeah, So, once upon a time, I
Speaker 3: was going on a date with a dude whose name
Speaker 3: I shouldn't mention. We were hanging out and talking about
Speaker 3: raccoons and stuff, as you do on a first day,
Speaker 3: and then we things were going pretty well. So we
Speaker 3: were back in my apartment and then we like went
Speaker 3: in my room to hang out, and then he found
Speaker 3: a box under my bed. It was like what it
Speaker 3: was like pretty close to that to like the it
Speaker 3: was like deep under my head. It was like pretty
Speaker 3: close to the outside of my bed, and he was like, well,
Speaker 3: what's in the box? Thinking it would be something that
Speaker 3: would be fun for him. But I knew that that
Speaker 3: box had like squid peaks in it, like squid beaks,
Speaker 3: octopus peaks, cuddle bones, like dried flowers and like snake
Speaker 3: skins and stuff.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, no, yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Don't want to go in there, like that's it's maybe
Speaker 3: not the best idea.
Speaker 1: So he was like, oh, that means I should definitely
Speaker 1: go in there.
Speaker 3: So he opens it up and like, Okay, maybe recently
Speaker 3: I had gotten some squid and maybe I was like
Speaker 3: still working on getting some of the squid chunks off
Speaker 3: of them, so I like had soaked them in this
Speaker 3: like ethan all so like I So he was like,
Speaker 3: wait what is this and was like already, like the
Speaker 3: look on his face went from like this is gonna
Speaker 3: be a great night to like what the fuck did
Speaker 3: I get myself into? And I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: I mean those are just like squid peaks, and I
Speaker 3: also have some octopus and uh, cuddlefish too, and er
Speaker 3: and then and he opened it. He opened it and
Speaker 3: and then he just closed the jar, put it back
Speaker 3: in the box, put the box under my bed.
Speaker 1: Oh walked out and never talked to me. No again,
Speaker 1: Oh I was gonna ho I was home. No, say
Speaker 1: that you're like engaged or something.
Speaker 2: Not even after hanging out in a basement with his
Speaker 2: chick for one hour, I can very much say his loss.
Speaker 1: Are you ready for some rapid fire? I'm so ready
Speaker 1: for some rapid Okay, all right.
Speaker 2: Okay, but before we zipsapp lightning round, let's toss some
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Speaker 5: Why did I call it Scottish cheese?
Speaker 1: Scottish cheese, honey? And I'm not sure did.
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Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think so.
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Speaker 2: The show, Okay questions yours, let's have them. Lily Massa
Speaker 2: wants to know what's the deal with squid ink?
Speaker 1: What's the deal with squid ink? So squid okay?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is this is a good question because I
Speaker 3: can go anywhere I want with it. So squid inc
Speaker 3: is it's a pigment that they store in their inksack
Speaker 3: and they primarily use it to get away from predators.
Speaker 1: So they have two options.
Speaker 3: They could either make this poofy cloud that they just
Speaker 3: like like a smoke bomb, and then they disappear and
Speaker 3: confuse everybody and potentially it tastes bad to some fish.
Speaker 2: So the inky like ah, you can't see me leave
Speaker 2: is one tactic.
Speaker 1: Another approach is.
Speaker 3: What's called a pseudomorph, So that's a blob that they
Speaker 3: incorporate mucus into the Uh but no, it's it's great,
Speaker 3: it's okay. I've had it all over my face before
Speaker 3: because I was working with a squid and it woke
Speaker 3: up in the middle of me trying to wake it
Speaker 3: up really violently and just inked me right in the
Speaker 3: face and it was just like dripping off my face,
Speaker 3: and I was like, man, I deserved it. They'll shoot
Speaker 3: the pseudomorph where they were, jet away from where they are,
Speaker 3: leave the blob where they were, so the shark or
Speaker 3: the big fish is like, oh, there is and then
Speaker 3: attacks the blob and just gets a mouthful of mucasy ink.
Speaker 2: How pissed would you be if you were eating a sandwich?
Speaker 2: You blink for a second, you put the sandwich your mouth.
Speaker 2: It's an inky, inky blob of mucus.
Speaker 1: That'd be a real bummer. Your sandwich is like, what aren't?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Pissed? Pissed? So that's the deal. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: that's what they used it for. I thought they were
Speaker 1: they only produced it for pasta. That's true, they also
Speaker 1: use it for pasta.
Speaker 2: Al Martinez one to know how many giant squids are there?
Speaker 2: And is there any truth to the old tails of
Speaker 2: giant squids attacking ships?
Speaker 1: Okay, no, that's the question I'll answer.
Speaker 3: So there are most likely a shit ton of giant
Speaker 3: squid because we find a lot of giant squid beaks
Speaker 3: in sperm whales. So we've like tried to back of
Speaker 3: the envelope calculate how many giant squid there are, and
Speaker 3: I don't have that exact number in my head, but
Speaker 3: they live pretty much everywhere in the deep ocean. Now,
Speaker 3: the reason there's this myth about them attacking ships is
Speaker 3: that these animals are full of ammonia, which is part.
Speaker 1: Of dealing with buoyancy.
Speaker 3: Basically, and when they die instead of sinking like other
Speaker 3: squid and cuttlefish and octopus do, they float. And so
Speaker 3: when they're starting to feel like crap and start to die,
Speaker 3: they tend to just sort of like go near the
Speaker 3: top of the water. Yeah, we think there are a lot,
Speaker 3: a lot a lot of giant squid ooh oh, and
Speaker 3: they get to the top but the water when they're
Speaker 3: sick and ships like maybe they'll just like touch the
Speaker 3: side of the ship because they're like what what year
Speaker 3: is it?
Speaker 1: Like who are you? Or are you gonna help me?
Speaker 3: And then they're like the sailors like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: it's attacking. Meanwhile it's just like on its deathbed and
Speaker 3: feeling like garbage.
Speaker 1: So it's not gonna hurt you. Tell my family, I
Speaker 1: love exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: John Worster wants to know how intelligent is an octopus?
Speaker 2: Would it's intelligence level compare it to like a four
Speaker 2: or five year old child or is it more intelligent
Speaker 2: than that?
Speaker 3: The short answer is like, Lord knows how smart any
Speaker 3: given animal is.
Speaker 1: You really, it's like a harder question than you think
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 3: So when you are assessing how smart an animal is
Speaker 3: and you're not like an animal intelligence scientist, you might think, like, okay,
Speaker 3: you're kind of judging the animal based on how you
Speaker 3: judge human intelligence. How smart is an octopus compared to
Speaker 3: like an age of human I don't know, maybe like
Speaker 3: a dog.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I guess.
Speaker 2: It also kind of depends on how sharp your kids are.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's very true. I've ever had a child or
Speaker 3: watched one develop. I mean, dam so as a.
Speaker 2: Four year old, I got my whole arm stuck in
Speaker 2: an escalator and they had to invent the emergency stop
Speaker 2: button for me and another kid whose foot got eaten off.
Speaker 1: So it really depends on Yeah, who's definitely wouldn't happen
Speaker 1: in octagen No, so.
Speaker 2: Even if it did, it's like I have seven extra
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna eat this off.
Speaker 1: We're good, okay.
Speaker 2: Christa avan Pado says, are squid likely to be more
Speaker 2: impacted by climate change than other sea animals? Or they
Speaker 2: or will they be one of the species it's best
Speaker 2: able to adapt.
Speaker 1: So squid are doing really well right now.
Speaker 3: But we think that's more to do with the fact
Speaker 3: that we don't overfish them. So we have overfished the
Speaker 3: hell out of most fish populations. We started with the
Speaker 3: biggest fish and then we've been working our way down
Speaker 3: ever since, so the really small prey fish are doing
Speaker 3: the best. The one thing that cephalopods generally have to
Speaker 3: worry about with climate change is ocean is a vacation
Speaker 3: So basically, when the ocean is acidic, it's harder to
Speaker 3: build a shell, So that's going to be a problem
Speaker 3: for all crustaceans and clams, bibas, whatever. Now, when they're
Speaker 3: looking at populations in the last like five ten years,
Speaker 3: all of the cephalopods that I know of are doing
Speaker 3: really well. But we don't have really good records of
Speaker 3: fisheries information for squid because back then you wouldn't need
Speaker 3: to eat a squid because you had cod coming out
Speaker 3: your ears. So we think they're doing all right. We
Speaker 3: don't think they're in dangered. The other nice thing is
Speaker 3: that they have really short life spans for the purposes
Speaker 3: of adapting quickly.
Speaker 1: That's great when you produce a lot of.
Speaker 3: Your species, it leads it gives you more opportunity to
Speaker 3: adapt quickly and evolve quickly, compared to an animal that
Speaker 3: you know needs to live fifty years before it reproduces.
Speaker 2: Right, so they have more iterations to kind of play
Speaker 2: a week and yeah, see, oh that's interesting. I had
Speaker 2: never thought about that. Okay, Jennifer Overbe wants to know.
Speaker 2: Are squid social creatures? I think we just talked about
Speaker 2: how they were loaners. She said, I've only ever seen
Speaker 2: them alone, but they must get busy every once in
Speaker 2: a while. So with how intelligent they are, do they
Speaker 2: have a complicated social structure.
Speaker 1: So it depends on the species.
Speaker 3: So some like CPA toothists, which are these like really
Speaker 3: really beautiful squid that have the bed skirt that goes
Speaker 3: all the way around, the fin that goes all the
Speaker 3: way around. They will generally travel in groups of like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, three to seven ish, and so they're
Speaker 3: always hanging out together. Humboldt squid travel in huge packs. Now,
Speaker 3: Humboldt squid are up there with some of the coolest cephalopods.
Speaker 3: They're like human sized lengthwise, They're like thick and big
Speaker 3: and scary, and they've they're like some people have said
Speaker 3: that they kill people swimming, which I wouldn't put past them,
Speaker 3: but I don't know if there are like recorded deaths
Speaker 3: from Humboldt squid, but I would believe it.
Speaker 2: Humboldt squid FYI also called red devils, and they're known
Speaker 2: to be very intelligent, very curious, and aggressive. So those
Speaker 2: beaks they have that look like bird beaks, I have
Speaker 2: more bite force than an African lion, which is a
Speaker 2: fact I did not need to know, and I kind
Speaker 2: of wish I didn't. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: So, And they live off Baja California, and I think
Speaker 3: in twenty ten they were coming up through, like up
Speaker 3: to San Francisco. They're huge traveling pacts. They flash red
Speaker 3: and white to communicate with each other, we think, and
Speaker 3: they will pack hunt, which is so scary, Like as
Speaker 3: if one humbold squid isn't scary enough, Like I people
Speaker 3: who will sometimes dive with them and literally wear like
Speaker 3: chain mail because they don't want to get bit.
Speaker 1: Could they eat a human? Sure? Why not? Yeah?
Speaker 3: And then the bummer about getting eaten by a squid
Speaker 3: is that they don't care if you're living or dead.
Speaker 3: While they're eating you, they will like they have such
Speaker 3: so many arms to grab onto you that they'll grab
Speaker 3: on and like start chomping away while you're still alive.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, God, So it's they're very scary.
Speaker 2: It seems like with a Humboldt squid, if they're the
Speaker 2: size of a human, it would just be like getting
Speaker 2: into a big skin sleeping bag, like you would just
Speaker 2: fill their whole guts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they might like eat part of you and
Speaker 1: then drop you. Oh cool, Yeah did you share the well? Yeah? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: Like anyone watch some of this? Yeah, well, you're gonna
Speaker 1: become marine snow.
Speaker 2: Mike Ramsey wants to know every once in a while,
Speaker 2: a strange creature washes up on a beach somewhere and
Speaker 2: may often be described as squid like but of unknown classification.
Speaker 2: Is anyone maintaining a database of unknown sea creatures If
Speaker 2: there's no immediate obvious classification and no easy way to
Speaker 2: find living specimens, does anyone research these things?
Speaker 3: So? I think a lot of times when things wash
Speaker 3: up that could be cephalopods, but that we don't really know,
Speaker 3: Like cephalopods degrade really fast.
Speaker 1: They don't have they're like.
Speaker 3: Okay, So for example, if one of my squid dies
Speaker 3: in the tank the next morning, it'll already start to
Speaker 3: come apart if I leave it till the afternoon, Like
Speaker 3: it's body parts will start falling off, and this is
Speaker 3: like this is like just in like a tank where
Speaker 3: there's not a lot of like wave action. By the
Speaker 3: next morning, if I pick it up, it will fall
Speaker 3: through my fingers liquid. So like identifying positively a lot
Speaker 3: of this stuff is really hard to do. So that's
Speaker 3: probably why they're saying like unidentified. Yeah it was a cephalopod,
Speaker 3: but like what was it?
Speaker 1: Lord knows.
Speaker 2: Brian Edge wants to know how threatened are the not
Speaker 2: alloid populations. They've always been one of my favorite cephalopods.
Speaker 1: Great choice.
Speaker 3: The notolids are in bad shape right now because we
Speaker 3: keep collecting them for their shells. Their shells are gorgeous
Speaker 3: and if you cut them in half that you see
Speaker 3: like these different chambers that the animal used to live in.
Speaker 3: But they reproduce pretty slowly and they don't produce as
Speaker 3: much as many offspring per nautilus as the squid do.
Speaker 3: So but go online and look up the nautilus breeding
Speaker 3: program at the Moderai Bay Aquarium because you have these
Speaker 3: like little baby nautilus videos and they're so cute, Like
Speaker 3: cuttlefish look like just tiny fully formed cuttlefish, which are
Speaker 3: so cute that it hurts a little bit, and nautilus
Speaker 3: is the same way. They come out pretty big and
Speaker 3: they just look like fully formed nautilus but small with
Speaker 3: a shell with a shellaby, it's really just so cute.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so don't buy nautilus shells because you're depleting
Speaker 3: the population and we gotta cool it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's three D print some Yeah, sure, are there
Speaker 2: enough people studying the squid.
Speaker 1: And octopus and cuttlefish.
Speaker 3: There's not enough government money to fund people studying cephalopods.
Speaker 3: There should be more because they're so dope and we
Speaker 3: can learn so much from Like understanding how they're doing
Speaker 3: this stuff is really important for like engineering purposes down
Speaker 3: the line. What my work is doing is really more
Speaker 3: about understanding how your microbiome stays healthy.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's a lot to learn from these animals.
Speaker 1: It's super cool. Also, octopuses at the pusses. I know
Speaker 1: you want it to be octopi. We all do, we
Speaker 1: all octopi sounds nice. At the pusses, you have to
Speaker 1: say pusses.
Speaker 3: Man. I know it's a stone cold summer, but it's
Speaker 3: it's what.
Speaker 1: It's the fact of life.
Speaker 3: So you just gotta just get up in the mirror
Speaker 3: look at yourself and just say octopuses and keep a
Speaker 3: straight face. And then when you can do it, you've
Speaker 3: made it. Then then you can apply to be a
Speaker 3: cephalopod biologist.
Speaker 1: If you can say octopuses, I got a way to go.
Speaker 2: Okay, So what about your job sucks the most?
Speaker 1: What do you hate? Is I mean tanks? Is it? Probably?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Probably?
Speaker 3: Like dead shrimp is the worst part of my job
Speaker 3: because they turn like pink and get goofy and like
Speaker 3: that's and they smell pretty bad. So that's the one
Speaker 3: of the worst parts of my job and that's normally
Speaker 3: what I say. But also, like the worst part maybe
Speaker 3: of being a squid biologist specifically is people. And you
Speaker 3: can cut this if you want, but people will like,
Speaker 3: no joke, send me technacal porn on the internet, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, but like, people will no joke, be like, oh,
Speaker 3: you're into tentacle porn like in college, Like I'm really not,
Speaker 3: Like that really upsets me because these square are these nice,
Speaker 3: lovely little animals, like.
Speaker 2: Why, But also, don't send it to someone unless they
Speaker 2: request it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, ess, Actually someone that really cares about the welfare cephalopods,
Speaker 5: like God, So that happens to me more than I
Speaker 5: that's probably the worst part.
Speaker 3: Like I can I can like pick up thirty dead
Speaker 3: shrimp and be like I had a really good day today,
Speaker 3: But like any day that somebody sends me squid porn
Speaker 3: is a bad day, at least a bad afternoon.
Speaker 1: I'm like report, like, no, please don't. What is the
Speaker 1: best thing about your job?
Speaker 3: The best thing about my job right now is watching
Speaker 3: a baby baby squid. So when they first hatch, their
Speaker 3: like the size of the head of a pin, and
Speaker 3: they'll take down these shrimp called mycens they're about like
Speaker 3: four times as big as them, and it's that's very cute.
Speaker 3: But when they transition from little shrimp to big shrimp,
Speaker 3: it's hilarious because these little squid that are maybe like
Speaker 3: a quarter of a marble in size, we'll tackle these
Speaker 3: big shrimp and it's like hilarious because they've got this
Speaker 3: huge shrimp in their mouth and they're like trying to
Speaker 3: swim and like control where this big shrimp goes. And
Speaker 3: that means that I can now pay a little less
Speaker 3: money to feed them, which is great, and it means
Speaker 3: that they're gonna make it, because that's the hardest part
Speaker 3: of raising a squid, getting it into transition to bigger shrimp.
Speaker 3: And if they make that transition, it's like I've done it.
Speaker 3: Like that's like sending your kid to college. Like you
Speaker 3: did it. You didn't screw it up. Everything is good,
Speaker 3: and it's just like so stupid cute. I can't handle it.
Speaker 2: It reminds me of when like a tiny poodle is
Speaker 2: carrying a huge stick.
Speaker 1: Right, No, it's exactly like that. Oh, it's just like that,
Speaker 1: but with more arms.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they'll like stretch all their stupid little arms
Speaker 3: around the shrimp body and it cracks me up.
Speaker 2: I forgot to ask you entirely. And then how can
Speaker 2: people get involved with skype A Scientists.
Speaker 3: And basically it's a program where we match up scientists
Speaker 3: and either classrooms or groups of adults that like learning
Speaker 3: so that they can have these like thirty to sixty
Speaker 3: minute question and answer sessions with a scientist.
Speaker 2: Skype A Scientist isn't just for school kids. They just
Speaker 2: expanded to just adults. So if you're a book club
Speaker 2: or a library group, you can sign up and you
Speaker 2: can gather and you can chat with one of over
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred scientists who have already signed up. You can
Speaker 2: go to skypeoscientist dot com and you can click for
Speaker 2: more info. If you're a scientist or if you're someone
Speaker 2: who wants to talk to one, click the teacher button.
Speaker 2: So it's also not just for Skype. You can FaceTime
Speaker 2: or video hangout. But it was like, I mean, let's
Speaker 2: be honest, Google Plus hangout a scientist just does not
Speaker 2: have a ring to it, so they just call it
Speaker 2: Skype a scientist.
Speaker 3: Every scientist loves answering questions about their work. They're spending
Speaker 3: their whole life working on it, So just tweet at them.
Speaker 3: Probably they're gonna be happy that somebody talk to them
Speaker 3: and cares about their science.
Speaker 1: That's such solid advice.
Speaker 2: I think so many people figure that, Like if you
Speaker 2: were to tap the shoulder of a working scientist, they
Speaker 2: would rear back in a lab and say it how
Speaker 2: to tell you?
Speaker 1: It's nice to know that.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh no, sweet, I'm just like walking through
Speaker 2: them all And I can totally answer that right now
Speaker 2: waiting for a smoothie, Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the movies and TV give signed to such a
Speaker 3: bad rep like we're friendly and like talking to other people.
Speaker 3: Most of the time, there's no reason to not talk
Speaker 3: to us. And a lot of times, like if you're
Speaker 3: studying some weird thing like bobtails, squinson biosis or whatever,
Speaker 3: like you probably don't think people care some of the time.
Speaker 3: So like when people do care, it's like awesome, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: let'st my favorite thing.
Speaker 1: Of course I want to talk about this. So yeah,
Speaker 1: don't be afraid of us. Okay, thank you so so
Speaker 1: much for me, and I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was only like several months of like
Speaker 2: mildly stalking you.
Speaker 1: That's fine, And where you're gonna.
Speaker 2: Be around it's me again.
Speaker 1: It's such a creep.
Speaker 2: So it should be noted that during this interview we
Speaker 2: also pause for a moment and we both did our
Speaker 2: best impressions of squid and cuttlefish dances for each other.
Speaker 2: Hers was amazing, and if you ever see her or
Speaker 2: this squidmobile out in Philly and say hello, she says
Speaker 2: you have to buy her a beer to see her
Speaker 2: squid dance performed, which is fair. Also, we got locked
Speaker 2: in this library basement for like five or ten minutes
Speaker 2: after the interview. We couldn't get out, which was scary,
Speaker 2: but Honestly, I wouldn't have changed it for the world.
Speaker 2: It was a good time. So Internet befriend doctor Sarah MacNulty.
Speaker 2: You can follow her on Twitter or Instagram at Sarah
Speaker 2: macattack or at Skype scientist. We will link those in
Speaker 2: the show notes. You can sign up for squid facts
Speaker 2: that are texted right to your phone one eight three
Speaker 2: to three side text one eight three three seven two
Speaker 2: four eighty three ninety eight. I hope we don't break
Speaker 2: her text robot. Also her Atlas Obscure class on Animals
Speaker 2: doing the Nasties in June and the Squidly one is
Speaker 2: in September. I will link those on my website. She
Speaker 2: also gives advice to anyone wanting to get involved with
Speaker 2: squid on a professional level. She says, just start working
Speaker 2: with animals in general as soon as you can in
Speaker 2: any capacity, and don't be afraid to do disgusting work. Also,
Speaker 2: since this episode aired, Doctor MacNulty and I did keep
Speaker 2: in touch. In twenty nineteen, I joined her in Hawaii
Speaker 2: with Atlas Obscura to help her collect a few bobtail
Speaker 2: squid for her studies. Out there at midnight looking for
Speaker 2: squid with flashlights in the ocean with her. She came
Speaker 2: to La. She stays at my place when she's in La.
Speaker 2: We gave a talk in a park about science. We
Speaker 2: text pretty much every day. She's become a really really
Speaker 2: close friend of mine and I love her. She came
Speaker 2: all the way out from Philly for our wedding, right, Jarrett,
Speaker 2: that is correct. That is correct. She was at our wedding.
Speaker 2: So twelve out of ten would climb into a Cephala
Speaker 2: podcar with a stranger four years ago. Again in a second.
Speaker 2: What a gem. So thank you to her for being
Speaker 2: on the show. And thanks to Aaron Talbert, who admins
Speaker 2: the Ologies podcast Facebook group with help from Bonnie Dutch
Speaker 2: and Shannon Feltus. Thank you to all the patrons for
Speaker 2: financially making this podcast possible. You really are the enge
Speaker 2: behind this. That is at patreon dot com slash Ologies.
Speaker 2: Thank you to Emily White the Wordery for making our
Speaker 2: professional transcripts. Caleb Patton bleeps them. Those are up at
Speaker 2: alleyware dot com slash Ologies Dash extras for free. Susan
Speaker 2: Hale handles so much business stuff. Noel Dilworth is amazing
Speaker 2: and does our scheduling. Kelly R. Dwyer updates our website.
Speaker 2: She can also design yours. Every few weeks we have
Speaker 2: a kid friendly version drop. We call those smologies, and
Speaker 2: Zeke Rodriguez Thomas of Mindgem Media makes those of us
Speaker 2: and the shimmer in my chromatophores, which I don't think
Speaker 2: that that makes sense biologically, and lead editor is refreshing
Speaker 2: this episode. We are in a car again, parked in
Speaker 2: a hospital parking lot. This has been.
Speaker 1: Probably the hardest couple of days of my life.
Speaker 2: If I talk about it, I will start crying, so
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna get into it. But but thank you
Speaker 2: Jared Sleeper. You've been here for days as I'm up
Speaker 2: in the ICU with my grandpa. So shit, you guys,
Speaker 2: uh yeah, So thank you Jared Sleeper for you. Nick
Speaker 2: Thorburn of the band Islands did the music. I'm not
Speaker 2: crying at all. That's rumor. It's been really tough you guys, duh.
Speaker 2: But but I just anyone who goes into medicine and
Speaker 2: takes care of people, just fuck you're awesome. So if
Speaker 2: you're out there and you're listening and you're wearing scrubs,
Speaker 2: even if you just bought them, they look cool, I
Speaker 2: appreciate you so much, and yeah, thank you for all
Speaker 2: the good cosmic vibes. It's really knowing that I can
Speaker 2: put this out as an encore episode and that even
Speaker 2: that there are five people listening to the end of
Speaker 2: this is really makes my life so much easier. So
Speaker 2: I get that's part of my secret. The secret I
Speaker 2: was going to tell you is that sometimes I feed
Speaker 2: my dog's boogers to her because she loves them. But
Speaker 2: maybe that's a better secret. It's so gross, she loves
Speaker 2: to eat them. And I didn't even know dogs like
Speaker 2: doing that until my friend Simone told me, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I wonder Grammy would line, And she loves them,
Speaker 2: so there's like freedoms to her and it's so gross,
Speaker 2: but I don't want to deprive her anyway. Thanks for
Speaker 2: listening to this. Hopefully back with a fresh episode next week.
Speaker 2: All right, please hug everyone, Okay, by bye, pacadermastology, homeology,
Speaker 2: crypto zoology, lithology, minology, meteorology, betterology, anthology, seriology, something