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We're prohibited by mock 27 00:00:57.560 --> 00:00:59.960 eighteen plus terms and conditions applaing See website for. 28 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:03.799 Lupadian. 29 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:16.280 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 30 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:19.400 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 31 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:26.760 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 32 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.439 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 33 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.760 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 34 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:50.319 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good Evening, Truth and 35 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:54.000 Honor explores the twenty and eleven murder of Saint John 36 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:58.239 businessman Richard Oland of the prominent family that owns Moussaid 37 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:03.400 Breweries will police investigation and the arrest, trial, and conviction 38 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:07.200 of the victim's son, Denis Oland for second degree murder. 39 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:11.560 Oland's trial would be the most publicized in New Brunswick history. 40 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:16.560 What the trial judge called a family tragedy of Shakespearean proportions. 41 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:21.759 This real life murder mystery included adultery, family dysfunction, largely 42 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:27.159 circumstantial evidence, allegations of police incompetence, a high powered legal defense, 43 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:31.360 and a verdict that showed and shocked the community. Today, 44 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:37.400 the Oland family members maintains Denis Oland's Innocence. Author Greg Marquis, 45 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:39.560 a professor of Canadian history at the University of New 46 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:43.280 Brunswick Saint John, leads readers through the case from the 47 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:46.719 discovery of the crime to the conviction and sentencing of 48 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:52.240 the defendant. Offering multiple perspectives. Truth and Honor explores this question, 49 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:56.879 was Denis Oland responsible for the death of his father? 50 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:00.120 The book they were featuring this evening is Truth and 51 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:03.400 Honor The Death of Richard Ohland and the Trial of 52 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:10.120 Dennis Oland, with my special guest, Professor and author Greg Marquis. 53 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:12.199 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 54 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:19.560 agreeing to this interview. Greg Marquee, Hello, thank you very much. 55 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:20.639 For agreeing to this interview. 56 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:22.879 Welcome to the program. Thanks. 57 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:28.360 I want to ask you how you came to be 58 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:31.680 the author of Truth and Honor. Why you were interested 59 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:34.000 in this case. Can you tell our audience about that? 60 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.400 Sure? Well, I live in the city. I live near 61 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:41.560 the city where the murder in the trial took place, 62 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:44.360 and I teach at a local branch of the University 63 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:48.680 of New Brunswick. I teach Canadian history, legal history, criminal 64 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:51.479 justice history. So I sensed that it was going to 65 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:56.080 be a big news story, and it was a current event, 66 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:58.159 not a historical case. But I thought it would be 67 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:02.520 interesting for an historian to sit in on a real 68 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:03.159 life case. 69 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:09.439 Certainly, let's get right to the matter at hand, because 70 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:13.319 this is a complex case and for our largely American 71 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:20.519 audience and international audience, this is an unusual unusual case 72 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:26.199 in terms of compared to American jurisprudence. Let's talk about 73 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:31.279 July six, twenty eleven, and you introduce a character named 74 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:36.759 Maureen Adamson. She's Richard Olan's long serving secretary, and she 75 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:41.240 arrives at work at eight forty five at the building 76 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:45.439 where she works and Richard Olan does his business. Tell 77 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:51.079 us who Maureen Adminson Adamson is, and tell us just 78 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:53.879 what happens when she goes to the building that morning. 79 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:57.920 What's her typical routine, and tell us what happens that day. 80 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:01.920 Sure, she's an she is very capable of experienced, sort 81 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:05.120 of an administrative admin assistant. So she was bringing in, 82 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:08.399 you know, probably a bundle of papers that she takes 83 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:10.319 work home the night before, I think it was actually 84 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:14.800 the morning of the seventh of July, and also some coffee, 85 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.759 some takeout coffee, and usually would be the first person 86 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:20.959 to open up the office kind of a nondescript, modest 87 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:25.000 three story building in an older street in the city 88 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:28.720 that is kind of gentrifying. And so when she went in, 89 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:32.600 the other door was open. That normally wasn't a big deal. 90 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:34.199 But when she got to the top of the stairs, 91 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:37.360 the sort of inner door to the office was open, 92 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:40.079 which was not usual because usually she's the first one in. 93 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:44.120 And when she entered the room, she immediately smelled a 94 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:47.360 terrible smell, and she noted that a lot of things 95 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:51.639 were out of place, and she soon glimpsed a leg 96 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:55.279 on the floor sort of under her boss's desk, and 97 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:58.160 she panicked and ran downstairs for help. 98 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:04.399 Now you talk about getting the assistance of Preston Chiason, 99 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.800 the owner of the building, and what does he do? 100 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:12.279 What happens? Yeah, he was, he was a friend of 101 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:14.120 the owner. Was he was there, He was hanging out 102 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:16.399 down below. The building was owned by John and still 103 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:19.759 is by John Ainsworth, and he he runs a printing 104 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:24.279 and digital imaging company on the bottom floor and he 105 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:27.240 I'm not sure John was there that early, but his friend, 106 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.040 mister Chayson was. Often different people will drop by and 107 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:32.800 hang out and do things there, and so he ran up. 108 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:35.800 You know, at that point they thought maybe if someone 109 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:38.560 had a heart attack or an accident, and he soon 110 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:42.120 since that no, this is a fatality. As was revealed 111 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:44.879 in court later, that had a real traumatic effect on 112 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.199 mister Chason finding that body. He seems to have suffered 113 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:52.279 from some post traumatic stress. They called nine one one 114 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:57.199 within minutes, both emergency services sometimes called paramedics in Canada 115 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:00.639 and the local police were in the building with two minutes, 116 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:04.439 three minutes, and they soon determined that this was an 117 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:06.839 individual who was dead and could not be revived. 118 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:14.439 Now, in terms of immediate investigation looking for signs of 119 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:20.279 forced entry or robbery, tell us what police found immediately 120 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:23.399 and then what was their search entailing in terms of 121 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:25.240 computers and other devices. 122 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:29.639 Sure, yeah, well the case the case here as following 123 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:32.879 great detail in Canada. Uh, they it revealed there were 124 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:36.240 some lapses and police investigations, some basic things that weren't done. 125 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:40.079 But you know, they did the usual visual search. One 126 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:42.199 of the problems that day is that there were three 127 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.279 forensic officers on the Sant John Police force. Only one 128 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:47.639 was uly available, so he was They were kind of 129 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:52.680 undermanned and so anyway, they they also had to deal with, 130 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:55.959 you know, securing the body and and and removing the 131 00:07:55.959 --> 00:08:00.800 body eventually. So there was the crime scene on a 132 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:04.360 second story office, but there was a front set of 133 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:08.120 front stairs leading down to the fronts to the streets 134 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.399 in the front Canterbury Street. But there was also a 135 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:13.000 back alley on a back alley door. It turned out 136 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.360 that no one thought to write down in their notebook 137 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.480 whether that back alley door was opened or closed, or 138 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:23.959 if it was closed, was it locked or unlocked on 139 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:28.000 the morning of the investigations starting. The crime scene was 140 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.160 only photographed a bit later. So they eventually did swab 141 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:34.320 for blood on the i hoping that maybe some of 142 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:37.559 the perpetrator's blood was there. Because the victim was attacked 143 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:40.600 with blunt force trauma, there was a lot of blood. 144 00:08:40.600 --> 00:08:44.320 There were over forty injuries to his head, and so 145 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:46.759 they hoped the investigators that there might be some of 146 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:50.320 the attacker's blood there as well. They dusted for prints. 147 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:52.879 There were simply too many prints in the office, which 148 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:55.720 was a working office, to have anything distinct. But there 149 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.600 were a few things, a few investigatory lapses for sure, 150 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.399 in terms of things that weren't photograph, often time notes 151 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:04.159 that weren't taken, gloves that were not worn, and also 152 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:06.399 crime scene not being totally secure. 153 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:12.919 Was there any sign of forced entry or robbery? 154 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.480 No, No, there was no sign of force entry robbery. 155 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:18.080 The only thing that I mean the victim had like 156 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.399 a rollbocks watch. There was cash, He had his cash, 157 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:23.879 credit cards, things like that, his car keys, his you know, 158 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:27.159 his BMW was parked outside. The car keys were there. 159 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:27.679 Uh. 160 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:31.799 They identified him by finding his wallet in his pants. Uh. 161 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.080 And the only thing that was missing, I mean, there 162 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:38.200 was even an envelope of cash I think for a 163 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.600 gardener on the on the desk. The only thing that 164 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:42.799 was missing was his iPhone or cell phone, and that 165 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:45.759 proved to be a crucial piece of evidence in the 166 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:51.080 later trial or two trials, we should say. 167 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:55.080 You just mentioned the forty five wounds in all tell 168 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:57.720 us a little bit more about the attack itself. What 169 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:01.480 did detectives find in terms of the crime scene and 170 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:03.960 how they had been attacked. What could they assume and 171 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:05.039 assess from that? 172 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:09.480 Well, between the detectives and also the medical examiner, they 173 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:13.000 determined that he died. A medical examiner determined that he 174 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:17.159 died from almost immediately from blood force trauma. It was 175 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:20.039 a pretty rapid and sudden attack. A lot of people 176 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:24.600 mentioned that it's probably something personal overkill. Blows around the 177 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:27.159 head with some sort of weapon, some sort of hammer 178 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:29.720 or hatchet. There are two types of wounds. One was 179 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.360 sort of like a hatchet type wound. Some of those 180 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:38.120 actually penetrated into the skull, into the brain. Others were 181 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:42.600 more superficial. They're also round, thatched patterned blows to the head, 182 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:44.480 which could have been made by something like a dry 183 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:48.039 wall hammer or a roofer's hammer. No murder weapon was 184 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.639 ever found. There was a lot of blood around the body, 185 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:53.720 particularly the head. There were defensive wounds to his hands, 186 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:56.200 which suggested that he tried to fend off the attack. 187 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:58.440 It looks like he was probably sitting at his desk, 188 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:03.519 either reading or looking at his computer when attacked. His body. 189 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:06.120 Depending on whose timeline you believe, his body was there 190 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:10.279 either from uh six thirty in the evening until nine 191 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:13.600 o'clock the next day, or that's the Crown that's his 192 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:17.360 prosecutions theory. The defense theory is sometime after seven point 193 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:20.440 thirty he was possibly he was attacked and anyway, the 194 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:22.799 body was there for several hours, so they couldn't determine 195 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:27.000 a cause of a time of death. And he had 196 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:30.360 you know, massive blows, massive blows to his head. And 197 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.559 again one of those mysteries about this case is that 198 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:36.679 no murder weapon and a surprising lack of trace blood 199 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:39.039 in the other parts of the office. There were no 200 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.200 blood detected on the stairs, on the on the door handles, 201 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:45.759 on the doorframes. You know, There's a lot of blood 202 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:48.399 around the body. There's a lot of blood spatter, some 203 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:51.240 of it you know, nine feet away from the body, 204 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:54.120 but other than that, there was a one level a 205 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:57.679 surprising lack of blood at the scene. 206 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:02.960 Tell Us, Now, about Richard Oland, we mentioned that he's 207 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.240 a wealthy person involved with the moose said breweries, and 208 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:09.759 his family involved with that as well. Tell Us also 209 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:15.240 his circumstances in terms of his marriage and his mistress 210 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.720 right was almost immediately. 211 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:22.559 Yeah, this was revealed to the public through you know, 212 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:25.519 as media got hold of some of the court information. 213 00:12:25.639 --> 00:12:27.000 But it wasn't I mean, I think it might have 214 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:30.559 been known to certain people. But Rachel Olan was married 215 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:34.279 to the same woman who he dated when they were sixteen, 216 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:40.519 Connie Oland, and they had three children. But it turned out. 217 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:44.000 The police soon found that he had a mistress and 218 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.360 Diana Sedletek, who was a realtor or a real estate agent. 219 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:49.879 They had been involved for several years. It was kind 220 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:52.559 of a bit of an open secret within the family. 221 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.720 Richard still lived at home with his wife in a Ross, 222 00:12:55.919 --> 00:13:00.399 which is a sort of an upscale suburban community outside 223 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:04.960 of Saint John, and he gone on trips with her 224 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:06.840 and things like that, and people who worked in the 225 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:08.879 office knew about the affair, but it was kind of 226 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.000 a don't ask, don't tell situation. Richard Olan had been 227 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:15.639 involved directly with the Moosehead Brewery. You can buy Moosehead 228 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:20.679 in the United States. It's Canada's biggest independent brewery, located 229 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:23.240 here in Saint John. Its roots go back to eighteen 230 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:27.559 sixty seven. It has quite a brand recognition in Canada. Anyway. 231 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:29.960 Richard had sort of had a fallen out with his 232 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.559 own father in terms of control of that company in 233 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:35.440 the eighties. He sort of lost out to his brother Derek, 234 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.799 who recently has signed over the running of the company 235 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:42.240 to one of his sons. But Richard did have shares 236 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.759 in the company and also in the eighties, and I 237 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:48.720 believe nineties. He had a very large trucking company that 238 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:52.120 benefited by hauling moosehead beer to the United States and 239 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.879 so forth, so he sort of benefited from that. He 240 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.320 was worth about thirty five million dollars at the time 241 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.240 of his death, and he was a fairly wealthy man. 242 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.759 By New Brunswick's standards revolved. A lot of charities had 243 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.080 been recognized by the government of Canada with an honor 244 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.480 called the Order of Canada. So he's a pretty prominent victim. 245 00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:16.480 Now, investigators right away find out the dynamics of this family. 246 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:21.080 You talk about the three children, tell us about Dennis, 247 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.559 and what they find out in terms of just immediately 248 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.720 the relationship between Richard and his son Dennis. 249 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:35.840 Yes, Well, the investigators talked to the victim's wife, Dennis's 250 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:41.840 wife Lisa, Dennis's sister Lisa, and sister Jacqueline, and eventually 251 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:44.879 Dennis that same that same day, this is the day 252 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:47.399 the body's found. And what they get from talking to 253 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:49.840 those family members is a bit of a narrative about that. 254 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.559 Richard was a hard man to deal with. He was 255 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:55.799 he could be very he had bouts of anger, He 256 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:59.679 was judgmental, sometimes could be quite callous he you know, 257 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:04.039 towards people and created a lot of tensions at family 258 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:07.440 gatherings and things like that. So one of the things 259 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:09.399 that was stressed in those interviews was a lot of 260 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:12.320 this pressure came on Dennis as the only son, and 261 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:15.279 so the police were sort of given kind of a 262 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.679 bit of a negative narrative about the father's son relationship. 263 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:22.960 They also realized, or came through their own conclusion that 264 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:26.240 Dennis was the last person to see the victim alive. 265 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:28.480 Is Dennis, you know, admitted going to see his father 266 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:34.919 the evening of the crime. Dennis also something that the 267 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:38.240 police dug into a bit and it was certainly important 268 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:41.799 in the later investigation. Dennis had been advanced money from 269 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.720 his father. Dennis was an investment advisor, sort of a stockbroker. 270 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.559 His income was up and down. He was trying to 271 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:52.960 live an upper middle class lifestyle, living in his grandparents' house, 272 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:58.159 which he had purchased with his former first wife, but 273 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:01.440 his income was not always great. He was having some 274 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:06.159 cash flow problems in twenty eleven, and the police determined 275 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:10.200 that that may have been a factor in the crime. 276 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:17.440 Now you talk about the money situation not being ideal 277 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:21.879 and the relationship between Richard and the police discover is 278 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:29.559 a serious thing to consider. When you police talked to 279 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:33.960 the secretary that was there July sixth, at the end 280 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:37.840 of the day and during the day, what was her testimony, 281 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:40.120 what was her what did she say to the police 282 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:45.240 about Dennis, about the frequency that Dennis would come around 283 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.720 normally typically to the office to visit his father, and 284 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:50.519 what happened that day and. 285 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:53.080 That yes, and that's a good question because also that 286 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:57.360 person Marine Adamson, as well as a co worker, Robert McFadden, 287 00:16:57.399 --> 00:16:59.360 who was sort of like the accountant in the office. 288 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:03.120 They also both to the police early on. Marene testified 289 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.640 that Dennis showed up to see his dad an unannounced, 290 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.240 not planned. He did work nearby, he lived, you know, 291 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:12.319 he worked in the building just five minutes away, and 292 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:16.559 pleasant conversation. But she also testified that Dennis was not 293 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:18.680 in the habit of visiting his father that often, at 294 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:23.880 least at his place of work. And although Dennis did 295 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:27.359 act as a bit of a financial advisor, you know, 296 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:30.599 making investments for his father. Sometimes Dennis dropped by. He 297 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:34.759 had a carrying a bag with him, a reasonable shopping bag, 298 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.519 and she mentioned to him Richard was happy to see 299 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:43.279 his son. Richard had just returned from a trip and 300 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:45.559 what they were going to talk about was family history. 301 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.319 So you know, Maureene within ten minutes of Dennis getting there, 302 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.680 kind of did her closed down routine, you know, shutting 303 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.920 off computers, walking the back door, things like that, and 304 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:58.279 then she left the two men chatting, presumably about family history, 305 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.640 which one thing the two men could talk on without 306 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:06.039 quarreling apparently was genealogy, and she thought that things were 307 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:09.160 going well. She she mentioned to Dennis that there was 308 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:14.039 a log book, which it was basically a log like 309 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:16.759 an entry log from a family camp that had been 310 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:19.359 I think on the mother's side of the family nearby 311 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:22.880 on an island in the Kenneba Cases River, very beautiful 312 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.519 river uh in the area, and over the years, different 313 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.519 visitors had signed their name in that camp log, and 314 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.319 Richard had borrowed that from another family member to scan it, 315 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:35.640 and he was a little late getting getting it back. 316 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:40.640 So missus Olin, Richard's wife, had asked Uh Maureen to 317 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.599 put her aside, and so Marine asked Dennis when he 318 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.200 showed up, well, can you could you take this this 319 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:48.680 this this family log book please and give it to 320 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.839 your mother, and so you know that the logbook also 321 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.039 had a role to play in the forensic evidence as 322 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:55.640 it turned out. 323 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:00.559 Now you talked about Marine Adamson and what did she 324 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:05.319 notice or note about his appearance and clothing that day. 325 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.119 Yeah, he was wearing it was a pretty warm day, 326 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:09.039 but he was wearing a Hugo Boss. Well, she didn't 327 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.519 know the brand, but he's wearing a brown sports jacket 328 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:13.799 and she thought it was a lot because it was 329 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:17.240 so warm. The brown jacket, as would turn out in 330 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:20.680 the investigation the trial, was another key piece of evidence 331 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:24.440 and it focused on the issues of truthfulness and credibility 332 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.200 of the accused as well. It would be the only 333 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:37.200 real direct forensic evidence that, according to the prosecution, you know, 334 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.359 place Dennis Owen at the crime scene in terms of 335 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.759 blood in DNA. 336 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:49.359 Now we talk about that, Maureen Adamson leaves, talks to 337 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:55.240 her husband, mentions the event where she speaks to Dennis 338 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.920 to her husband, and then they leave. Now police are 339 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:03.000 trying to determine and obviously they need to speak to Dennis. 340 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.640 You talk about that this looks like something very obvious 341 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:09.839 that they would speak to Dennis. It looks like he 342 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:13.519 is the last person to speak to his father. 343 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:20.160 Sorry, he was the lost known person. 344 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.319 Now how do police proceed in terms of questioning him 345 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.519 and how much do they know? How much have they 346 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:32.759 learned before they questioned him? 347 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.920 Yeah, they're they're there. I think they're getting bits of 348 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.799 information from some of the previous interviews that day, uh, 349 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:42.319 from the family members, maybe about the father son relationship 350 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.119 and things like that. They also through his really through 351 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.839 his interview, he mentions, for example that after he left 352 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.000 his father and he said his father was in fine 353 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:52.039 form and it was a pleasant party. Of the ways, 354 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:54.960 he he walked out of the building, took a call 355 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:56.519 from his wife, and then he drove home. But on 356 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:58.680 the way home he stopped at a wharf on on 357 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.839 that Kenne of Cases River. And so once the police 358 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:05.119 heard that, for example, they dispatched an officer that night. 359 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:08.559 This is an hour into Dennis's interview. They sent an 360 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:12.000 officer out just to do a quick sweep visual sweep 361 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.240 of that wharf area. Later they would return with divers 362 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.759 and search dog team and things like that. They also did, 363 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:22.160 you know, routine things they ran his uh. They ran 364 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.039 his name through the vehicle identification a system to get 365 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:28.359 you know, the registration and plate of his car in 366 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:32.759 case they could pick up any uh, visuals of a vehicle, 367 00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:35.880 you know, through cameras on the street. Uh. They also 368 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:37.559 checked to see if he had a criminal record, you know, 369 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.200 standard investigation, you know. So it wasn't that he was 370 00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:43.839 considered a suspect that early, but they were doing some 371 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:48.240 routine things to check on him. And if you watch, 372 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:51.960 you can watch that in the interview, it was all voluntary. 373 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.200 You can watch that interview on YouTube. It's it's been 374 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.240 posted there. But it was about a five hour interview 375 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:00.960 where he came in at first to so of talked 376 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.799 to the police about his father, see if he can 377 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:05.799 come up with any people who might want to harm 378 00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:07.839 him and things like that, tell us about the victim. 379 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:12.559 And about two and a half hours into the interview, 380 00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:18.359 it's clearly moving into more of an interrogation. The police 381 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.839 investigators have determined that Dennis is a suspect and they 382 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.680 give him a caution. They give him a caution. He 383 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:29.640 has through the course of the evening he is allowed 384 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:32.720 He's given two calls to his lawyer, actually wasn't a 385 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.799 criminal lawyer, but a lawyer who advised him not to 386 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:38.880 speak later, So for the second half of the interrogation 387 00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:42.319 he doesn't. He exercises his right to silence and they 388 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:44.960 let him go. He's not you know, he's not charge 389 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.680 of anything. One of the tactical mistakes the police made 390 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.880 was not asking if they could have his shoes and clothing, 391 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:54.759 because he claimed in an interview to have worn the 392 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:59.240 same shoes and the same pants the day before. He 393 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:01.640 also spoke about the jocket. We can talk about that later. 394 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.559 The other thing that shows that he was a suspect 395 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:07.519 by eleven o'clock that evening. This is the same day 396 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:10.240 the body has found is that they put a tail 397 00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:13.799 on him. They put him under surveillance for the next week, 398 00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:16.519 although we didn't really hear anything in court about that 399 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:18.000 surveillance in detail. 400 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.440 Hello, it is Ryan and we could all use an 401 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:23.759