1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: This week's episode of the Tribecast is brought to you 2 00:00:08,759 --> 00:00:11,160 by the members of the Texas Tribune. 3 00:00:11,279 --> 00:00:13,199 Speaker 2: Our Fall member drive is happening now. 4 00:00:13,359 --> 00:00:15,519 Speaker 1: We need five hundred Texans to make a first time 5 00:00:15,599 --> 00:00:19,039 donation to the Texas Tribune. Become a member today at 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:30,160 Texastribune dot org slash donate. Hello and welcome to this 7 00:00:30,199 --> 00:00:33,560 week's episode of the Tribecast for Tuesday, September twenty third. 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,399 I'm Eleanor klibanoff Law and politics reporter at the Texas Tribune. 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,359 I am solo today in the studio, at least, sitting 10 00:00:41,399 --> 00:00:44,920 up here all by my lonesome. Matthew is away, but 11 00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:51,039 joined in spirit and over zoom by one of the greats, 12 00:00:51,719 --> 00:00:55,799 the Texas Tribune Washington correspondent, Gabby Beerenbaum. 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:56,679 Speaker 2: Gabby, how are you. 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 3: I'm good, one of the greats. I was going for 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,920 Rookie of the Year. Yeah, I just started, but I'll 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:03,320 take it. 17 00:01:03,479 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: Two things can be true, two things can be true. 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,359 So as of well, we're actually taking this on Monday, 19 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,599 so as of today, but as of yesterday when you're 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,640 listening to this, we are officially into fall, which is 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,359 exciting because it is my favorite season and also exciting 22 00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:24,040 because it's a season of change, of old things falling 23 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:28,079 away to make way for new opportunities, which brings us 24 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,640 to our topic of the week, the changing face of 25 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,920 Texas's congressional delegation. I'll be honest, I do better with 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,680 the segues and setups when I have someone else in 27 00:01:37,719 --> 00:01:43,040 the studio. But you know, Gabby, we invite you Wanta because 28 00:01:43,079 --> 00:01:44,400 we really do want to talk about it. We've had 29 00:01:44,439 --> 00:01:48,120 this sort of flurry of news over the summer, whether 30 00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:53,799 it's redistricting or campaign announcements or retirement announcements, especially recently, 31 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:59,120 that seem likely to sort of reshape Texas's representation in 32 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,840 Washington DC. And you know, a lot of this is 33 00:02:02,879 --> 00:02:05,560 sort of slow moving targets in that a lot of 34 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,400 this won't actually go into affection until, you know, uh, 35 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,319 twenty twenty seven, if we're being you know, realistically, once 36 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,199 after the twenty twenty sixth election. But it is a 37 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,319 huge deal because both for Texas, like how we're represented 38 00:02:17,319 --> 00:02:19,800 in DC, but also for the country we have this 39 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,599 very outsized influence in DC, or like to think we 40 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,120 do at least, So let's start there. 41 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,199 Speaker 2: I mean, can you talk a little. 42 00:02:27,039 --> 00:02:32,039 Speaker 1: Bit of just about like Texas's delegation in Congress sort 43 00:02:32,039 --> 00:02:33,960 of the state of the delegation and the role it 44 00:02:34,039 --> 00:02:35,840 plays more broadly. 45 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,039 Speaker 4: Yeah, so Texas. 46 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 3: There are thirty eight members in the House from Texas, 47 00:02:40,439 --> 00:02:42,800 and the vast majority are Republicans, so right now twenty 48 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,560 five and so historically, what the Texas Republican you know, 49 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,319 conference has wanted, they can they have lunch every week. 50 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,599 They can then take that to the broader Republican conference. 51 00:02:52,599 --> 00:02:55,000 And because they speak with such a large voice, they 52 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,599 can really sort of set the agenda for House Republicans 53 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,240 when they're unified and when they have you know, they 54 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,400 have a big voice in the room by quantity, but 55 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,879 some of that also depends on right who's speaking. And 56 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,280 I think in the last few cycles we've seen a 57 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,840 lot of the sort of heavy hitters of the Texas 58 00:03:11,879 --> 00:03:14,800 delegation who had been committee chairs. You know, Kevin Brady 59 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:17,080 from the Houston area was the longtime chair of Ways 60 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,879 and Means. Kay Granger from Fort Worth was the chair 61 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:24,879 of Appropriations. Some really longtime members retired either in the 62 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,479 first Trump administration or the Biden administration, and so a 63 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,000 lot of the members these days are in their first 64 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,639 second third term, and while there are definitely some strivers 65 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,120 and some ambitious people, I think the Texas delegation in 66 00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:39,280 general doesn't have. 67 00:03:39,199 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 4: The clout it once had on the Republican side. 68 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: And I think that's going to be even more compounded 69 00:03:44,759 --> 00:03:49,120 because we already have some high profile retirements coming in 70 00:03:49,159 --> 00:03:50,159 the next election cycle. 71 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:51,439 Speaker 2: Right. 72 00:03:51,479 --> 00:03:54,439 Speaker 1: I mean that is interesting, like when unified very powerful, 73 00:03:54,639 --> 00:03:58,439 when there's disunity. I mean, what are sort of the 74 00:03:58,479 --> 00:04:00,800 factions that we see now broadly speaking? 75 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: I mean, does it is just sort of reflective. 76 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: Of the factions we just see in Congress are playing 77 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:05,479 out in the Texas donation. 78 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:07,319 Speaker 3: I mean, I think I think there's two things going on. 79 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,840 I think, like one, there's people talk about like the 80 00:04:09,879 --> 00:04:13,520 Five Families. It's very mafia esque of the of House Republicans, 81 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,639 and so that ranges from the Problem Solvers Caucus, which 82 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,319 is like a bipartisan group of moderates, to the Freedom Caucus, 83 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:22,519 which is like the most right wing, you know, really 84 00:04:22,639 --> 00:04:25,079 fiscal hawks that often are thorn in the side of 85 00:04:25,199 --> 00:04:28,720 leadership and Texas. You know, there's Republicans in all five families, right, 86 00:04:28,759 --> 00:04:30,600 So that's part of it. But also, like I mentioned, 87 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:32,120 a lot of it is just the lack of seniority. 88 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,560 And there's very few members these days who have been 89 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,120 there pre you know, pre Trump one, honestly, and I 90 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,319 think in a more somewhat civil time when there was 91 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,319 more bipartisanship in Congress, and so a lot of a 92 00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:47,199 lot of the newer members, I think just don't have 93 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,959 that experience of needing to work with the other party 94 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,800 to get things done, sort of keeping the temperature down 95 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,720 a bit. And so, you know what what gets you are, 96 00:04:57,879 --> 00:04:59,879 you know what bolsters your reputation in Congress these days. 97 00:04:59,879 --> 00:05:01,839 And I just talked about this with Congressman McCall who's 98 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,560 one of the members who's retiring. Is not necessarily what 99 00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:06,279 it was in his day when he came into the bush. 100 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,240 Ere you know, it's a lot more. I think a 101 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,800 lot of older members would say now it's a lot 102 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,920 more about getting on TV or you know, getting earned 103 00:05:12,959 --> 00:05:16,680 media and all that, and less about legislating. And so 104 00:05:16,879 --> 00:05:18,920 I think that's also part of the dynamic of the 105 00:05:18,959 --> 00:05:21,279 Texas delegation. You've got people with like different levels of 106 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,959 interest in legislation versus sort of attention. Not that they're 107 00:05:25,959 --> 00:05:27,879 always mutually exclusive, but I think that's what some of 108 00:05:27,879 --> 00:05:28,959 the older members might say. 109 00:05:29,439 --> 00:05:30,879 Speaker 2: Right, right, that makes a lot of sense. 110 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: Let's talk about Congressman McCall, who you had a fantastic 111 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,759 story on him last week. He you know, represented Central Texas, 112 00:05:40,759 --> 00:05:43,480 a Central Texas district for twenty two years, and he 113 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,360 announced he will be retiring. I mean, who is Congressman 114 00:05:47,439 --> 00:05:50,360 McCall's or what does he represent at this point? 115 00:05:51,079 --> 00:05:52,959 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think Carson McCall. 116 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 3: They call him Chairman, amereta McCall because they shared two 117 00:05:56,319 --> 00:06:00,000 big pities, homeland security and foreign affairs. He's you know, 118 00:06:00,519 --> 00:06:02,879 a bit from a different era. He came to Congress 119 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,879 during the Bush era, he told me, And he ran 120 00:06:04,879 --> 00:06:06,360 his first campaign in two thousand and four on a 121 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,120 platform of counter terrorism like very you know, very relevant 122 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,120 in the four election and not as much anymore. His 123 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,759 background was in counter terrorism work, and he you know, 124 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,319 chaired the Homeland Security Committee during the Boston bombings. Then 125 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,040 he chaired Foreign Affairs during the Biden administration for those 126 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,519 last two years, and so he was sort of the 127 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,199 Republican shadow. 128 00:06:26,879 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 4: Secretary of State people called him in that time. 129 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: But like from a much more you know, neo conservative, 130 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,639 Reagan esque era of Republican politics. You know, he's a 131 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:39,920 very big Ukraine hawk. He's this huge support of Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel, 132 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,800 just a believer in like American American, you know, interest 133 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,240 in the global sphere and like participating much less so 134 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:52,120 than I think a lot of the isolationism in America 135 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,959 first rhetoric and policy that you see out of the 136 00:06:54,959 --> 00:06:56,920 Trump administration somewhat and certainly out of a lot of 137 00:06:57,319 --> 00:07:00,600 members of Congress now. And so I think he's really 138 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,480 been like a voice trying to keep the party engaged 139 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,439 in global affairs. But he sort of turned out of 140 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:08,879 leading committees anymore. 141 00:07:09,839 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 4: He's one of the longest. 142 00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 3: Tenure members from Texas, and so he told me he 143 00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:15,439 felt like it was time to time to move on. 144 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,879 He had a good quote about you either die in office, lose, 145 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:20,839 get indicted, or you. 146 00:07:20,839 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 4: Can leave with dignity. So he wanted to do the 147 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:25,000 last one. 148 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,399 Speaker 3: But yeah, he's sort of a towering figure I think 149 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,439 in the in the party, among House Republicans and then 150 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,160 also in Texas politics, and so that's going to be 151 00:07:32,199 --> 00:07:35,920 a huge, like sort of wealth of knowledge. I think 152 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,480 about how Congress works and how the legislative process works, 153 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,639 and you know as someone who's been to you know, 154 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,079 tons of countries and met tons of foreign leaders over 155 00:07:43,079 --> 00:07:45,079 the years, and so that that's going to be just 156 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:46,879 a big sort of wealth of knowledge in the delegation 157 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,839 that'll be gone come twenty seven. 158 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought, like your story really, in addition to 159 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,040 capturing sort of his you know, decision to leave, it 160 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:01,040 does really reflect like this change in Republican priorities. I 161 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,600 mean when we think about maybe talked about this on 162 00:08:04,639 --> 00:08:06,480 here before, but I a couple months ago went to 163 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,399 the George W. Bush Presidential Library at SMU, and it 164 00:08:10,439 --> 00:08:12,519 was so interesting. It was like right when they were talking, 165 00:08:12,639 --> 00:08:14,839 the Trump administration was talking about all these like global 166 00:08:14,839 --> 00:08:16,839 aid cuts, and it was so interesting just to see 167 00:08:16,839 --> 00:08:21,439 like the Bush administration's priority on like PEPFAR and these programs, 168 00:08:21,439 --> 00:08:23,399 and thinking like if we're going to do this sort 169 00:08:23,439 --> 00:08:28,920 of you know, these political goals or these you know, 170 00:08:29,199 --> 00:08:32,000 if we're going to sort of charge into these other countries, 171 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,519 like we also should be pouring money into global aid 172 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:37,840 and other things like that, and like those are just 173 00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:39,600 so different than the conversations we're having. 174 00:08:40,639 --> 00:08:41,039 Speaker 4: Yeah. 175 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,639 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and McCall is like a huge i think believer 176 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,000 in like that former Bush era global consensus, and then 177 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,480 I mean we had interest in a conversation he told 178 00:08:48,519 --> 00:08:52,360 me understands like the sort of younger person's frustration with 179 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:55,399 forever wars and that like people have people who grew 180 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:57,600 up in the Afghanistana Rock era have a different perspective 181 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,720 than him who grew up during the Cold War. But 182 00:08:59,759 --> 00:09:01,960 I think he said he's going to continue to kind 183 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,320 of speak out just from outside of Congress for like 184 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,519 the sort of yeah American interest in aid and intervention 185 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,240 in those things. But yeah, it's I think it's been 186 00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:14,480 an increasingly lonely path in Congress for him. 187 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: Than it used to be, right, Yeah, I mean it's 188 00:09:17,159 --> 00:09:19,639 just interesting when we you know, there's been so much 189 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,840 talk and we're going to probably talk about this a 190 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,080 little bit with Lloyd Doggett, but like there's been so 191 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:25,559 much talk about, you know, when is the right time 192 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,320 for older members to leave, and like a lot of 193 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,639 condemnation particularly well, I guess I would say on both 194 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:37,039 sides about like overstaying age wise, but yeah, there is 195 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,720 obviously you know, something lost when it's like everyone's sort 196 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,480 of new and younger. 197 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's what they balanced and 198 00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:45,960 McCall's only in his sixties. 199 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 4: I mean, I was like your sprint chicken. 200 00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:48,519 Speaker 2: For right, Yeah, exactly right. 201 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not leaving in a wheelchair, yeah right, right, right, 202 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:53,679 But yeah. 203 00:09:53,519 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 3: It's all It'll be interesting to see what happens there. 204 00:09:55,799 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, another Central Texas Republican potent giving up his seat 205 00:10:00,799 --> 00:10:04,240 to run for a different office. Not retiring, but Chip Roy, 206 00:10:04,759 --> 00:10:07,919 who has announced he will be running for attorney Texas 207 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:08,799 Attorney General. 208 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:10,799 Speaker 2: A really different character. 209 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,039 Speaker 1: Than McCall in a lot of ways, although they are 210 00:10:13,039 --> 00:10:14,919 sort of from the same general region of the state. 211 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,000 Can you talk a little bit about Chip Roy and 212 00:10:18,279 --> 00:10:20,039 who he is and what he represents to. 213 00:10:20,799 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, the So Chip Roy has you know, been all 214 00:10:23,399 --> 00:10:27,519 over in Texas politics. He worked for Senator Cruz, he 215 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,000 was his chief of staff during cruise his like first 216 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,360 few years in the Senate. Then he went on to 217 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,240 work for Paxton at the beginning of Paxson's ten years age, 218 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:36,799 and they sort of parted. You would know more than 219 00:10:36,799 --> 00:10:41,080 me about this, but parted on bad terms. And so, yeah, 220 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,519 Roy in Congress has been I think a sort of 221 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,559 chief mischief maker for Republican leadership. He's someone they all, 222 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,720 you know, when they're trying to pass a major bill, 223 00:10:49,759 --> 00:10:52,480 they always have to negotiate with him. He's the policy 224 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,320 chair of the Freedom Caucus, which I mentioned is the 225 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,399 sort of big fiscal hawk, you know, farthest right caucus. 226 00:10:59,519 --> 00:11:03,320 So his big thing in Congress has been cutting spending. 227 00:11:03,879 --> 00:11:07,799 And so he's you know, very active in the media, 228 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:08,360 is very. 229 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 4: Well known to journalists on the Hill. 230 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,519 Speaker 3: You know, if you're if the Freedom Coucus is acting 231 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,840 up and trying to shut down legislation or freeze the floor, 232 00:11:14,879 --> 00:11:16,759 like he's he's, you know, the best guy to go 233 00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:19,759 to and learn what's going on in most cases. He's 234 00:11:19,759 --> 00:11:22,559 got a really you know, great policy brand and can 235 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,200 talk through a lot of issues. But yeah, he he 236 00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:27,799 is someone I don't I don't know that House leadership 237 00:11:27,799 --> 00:11:30,080 will miss all that must all that much because he's, uh, 238 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,639 he's They've had to negotiate with him. 239 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 4: All the time over various things. But yeah, he's running 240 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:36,759 for Attorney General. 241 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,039 Speaker 3: So that'll open up his seat, which is like Hill country, 242 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:44,360 central Texas area, uh, Austin to San Antonio. And so 243 00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:47,039 there's already a bunch of Republicans looking at that seat, 244 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,360 including Mark to Shia, former former Ranger and Yankee baseball player. 245 00:11:51,799 --> 00:11:54,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we've got a couple celebrities in the 246 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,519 mix on for different seats, which is fun for name 247 00:11:58,559 --> 00:11:59,480 recognition at least. 248 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. 249 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,399 Speaker 1: I mean Roy obviously entering like a very crowded attorney 250 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,120 general race, although I think some polling shows like he 251 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,519 definitely has the highest name recognition among the candidates. So yeah, 252 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,240 I mean, do you sort of read anything in the 253 00:12:15,279 --> 00:12:17,080 tea leaves of that of like deciding to run for 254 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,639 AG versus staying in the house where he has been 255 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:27,159 sort of I think someone intentionally like a frustrating character. Yeah, yeah, 256 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,440 I mean I think he he talked about I think 257 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,720 like wanting to be spend more time in Texas than 258 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,080 in DC, which is like a common lawmaker complaint I 259 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,080 think about about Congress A B. He's a lawyer, he's 260 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,960 you know, a really I think he really thinks, thinks 261 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,960 through things with a legal mind. I have to imagine 262 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,679 this is an office that he's been looking at, especially 263 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:50,480 because I mentioned he worked for Pacston and that's an 264 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:55,120 office he's familiar with. So and you know, he has, 265 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,759 like he said, high name idea I think is something 266 00:12:56,759 --> 00:12:58,879 that he rightfully thinks he can win, just given what 267 00:12:58,919 --> 00:13:00,080 we've seen from early. 268 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean I think a. 269 00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: Lot of members of Congress, and you know, we can 270 00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:07,799 talk about Morgan Latrell in the eighth district outside of 271 00:13:07,799 --> 00:13:09,960 Houston is also leaving after two terms. I think for 272 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,240 a lot of people, it can be a pretty frustrating place. 273 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,600 And I think for you know, and you see this 274 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,759 across all fifty states, a lot of people I think 275 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,039 come to Congress and then leave wanting a job actually 276 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,600 in their state where they feel like they can make 277 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,039 more of an impact and not just being one of 278 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,120 four hundred and thirty five. 279 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean I think Roy almost sort of 280 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:30,519 said that where he was like, you know, this isn't 281 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,679 really a job you should do forever, right, Like I 282 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,840 think there's yeah, sort of the opposite of you know, 283 00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:40,080 the McCall argument. Right, it's like, yes, you want people 284 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,639 to be tenured in experienced, and also like, what a 285 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:43,120 weird job. 286 00:13:43,159 --> 00:13:46,279 Speaker 2: You probably shouldn't have it. You should probably cook your brain. 287 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 3: A little smilar definitely hill creatures. And I think others come 288 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,000 and do it for a few terms. And Roy's been 289 00:13:51,039 --> 00:13:54,080 there since he woned eighteen, so I guess that would 290 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,759 be this fourth term. But yeah, I think I think 291 00:13:56,799 --> 00:13:59,039 a lot of people get very frustrated by the sort 292 00:13:59,039 --> 00:14:01,679 of machinations of Congress, and it can be hard to 293 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:02,639 stand out. 294 00:14:03,159 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I obviously, like like you said, I mean, 295 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:07,440 we're probably looking at a pretty crowded race for his seed. 296 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,360 I mean, similarly McCall, I mean, none of these seats 297 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,639 are like necessarily handed down to one clear like air 298 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:17,600 apparent anymore. But when you it feels like sort of 299 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,919 the common wisdom would be that, like someone like McCall 300 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,240 would be replaced by someone who's maybe more in the 301 00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:26,720 mold of the modern conservative movement. Roy is sort of 302 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,519 a character unto himself. I mean, do you have any 303 00:14:28,559 --> 00:14:31,440 sense of sort of like he leaves, someone else replaces him, 304 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,519 Like what that impact, Like, what what is that person 305 00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:38,759 likely to be more conservative or just more of a 306 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,799 you know, obviously House leadership would prefer they be sort 307 00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:44,639 of more march in line with the with the Yeah. 308 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,519 Speaker 3: It is hard realized such an interesting character, right, because yeah, 309 00:14:47,559 --> 00:14:48,960 I mean he is like definitely one of the most 310 00:14:49,039 --> 00:14:51,639 right wing conservative members of the House. At the same time, 311 00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:54,080 like he was one of the only Republicans from Texas 312 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,360 who didn't sign on to like election challenges in twenty twenty. 313 00:14:58,320 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 4: So he's kind of an interesting guy. 314 00:14:59,799 --> 00:15:01,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think in a lot of 315 00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:03,840 these cases, and I think we've seen just from like 316 00:15:04,679 --> 00:15:07,279 younger members in Texas who have come in the last 317 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,080 few years, I think, yeah, they're much more in the 318 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,399 mold of like a trumpy America first type conservative, And 319 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,399 so I think that's also part of how the delegation 320 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,360 has changed over time to be more of a Republican 321 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,120 and Trump's image than the era that predated him. And 322 00:15:23,159 --> 00:15:24,960 so yeah, we'll see who comes out of these seats, 323 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,120 but I wouldn't be surprised if if it ends up 324 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,240 being people who align more with like where the Republican 325 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,840 Party is in this moment in the White House. 326 00:15:32,279 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: Right we I want to talk about another major change 327 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:35,919 in Central Texas. 328 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,279 Speaker 2: But before we do that. 329 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: I do want to say this week's episode of the 330 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,120 Tribe Cast is brought to you by the members of 331 00:15:42,159 --> 00:15:43,200 the Texas Tribune. 332 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,679 Speaker 2: It is our fall membership drive. 333 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: If you are not a member, we would love for 334 00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:50,840 you to join our little family. You can become a 335 00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:54,399 member at Texastribune dot org. Slash donate. You can also 336 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:56,840 go to our website. We've got donate buttons everywhere. If 337 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,039 you're subscribed to our newsletters, we're also pushing it there. 338 00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:02,080 If you are donating, feel free to mention that you 339 00:16:02,159 --> 00:16:05,159 love the trip cast. That is a very valuable feedback 340 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,639 to people who get to decide things like whether or 341 00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:11,600 not we keep doing this, and feel free to say 342 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,919 you prefer you know which host you prefer and who 343 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,080 you'd like to see more or less of. Matthew's not 344 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,720 here to defend himself, so you know, write in how 345 00:16:20,799 --> 00:16:21,320 much you like me? 346 00:16:22,159 --> 00:16:22,799 Speaker 2: Please do that. 347 00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:26,639 Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about the other change in Central 348 00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:28,840 Texas on the other side of the aisle, which is 349 00:16:29,039 --> 00:16:34,080 a longtime Congressman Lloyd Doggett announcing he will retire instead 350 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,279 of challenging Greg Kassar for the newly redrawn district. You 351 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,799 did a lot of really great reporting on how that 352 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,240 decision came to be. But before that sort of what 353 00:16:44,279 --> 00:16:46,720 did how did redistricting sort of pit them against each other? 354 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,320 And what was that looking like before we either of 355 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:50,120 them made a decision? 356 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean for years, Austin, in various iterations at 357 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,039 the Texas congressional map has been cracked so that they 358 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,440 could only be one Democrat representing it, and that was 359 00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:02,240 Lloyd dog It. And then in twenty twenty one, I 360 00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:05,920 think for the first time, you know, Austin has I 361 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,240 think the highest percent of Democratic voters of the you know, 362 00:17:09,279 --> 00:17:12,240 major metro areas, and for the first time, I think 363 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:13,920 Republican map Jars were like all right, you know, we 364 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,720 see the writing on the wall, and they drew two 365 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:18,200 Austin based seats. So there was Doggets, which is sort 366 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,160 of West Austin, and then Kazars, which is more East 367 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:27,079 Austin and stretched down to San Antonio. Doggets was majority white, 368 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,200 Casars was majority people of color, so you know, sort 369 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,880 of differences there. But in the most recent redraw, the 370 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,119 mid decade redistricting that you and I have obviously like 371 00:17:35,279 --> 00:17:38,359 spent the last several months reporting on, they went back 372 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:38,880 down to one. 373 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,799 Speaker 4: So they made a sort of dem super district in Austin. 374 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 3: It's gonna be it was, you know, of the thirty eight, 375 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,039 the one that voted by Kamala Harris by by far 376 00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:49,440 the biggest margin, there's going to be a seat that 377 00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:52,119 you know, whoever takes that it could serve indefinitely. 378 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,279 Speaker 4: I think it's so long as they don't get into. 379 00:17:54,079 --> 00:17:57,079 Speaker 2: Any they don't go to night. 380 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 4: I mean, who knows Nicole's right. 381 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:01,559 Speaker 2: List of ways to leave? Yeah? 382 00:18:01,839 --> 00:18:04,599 Speaker 3: Right, So, and it was about, you know, the way 383 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,119 it was drawn. It was about two thirds of Dogget's 384 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,160 constituents and the rest were Kassar's constituents. 385 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 4: I think there was some. 386 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 3: Question of who's going to run here. And Kassar's district 387 00:18:13,079 --> 00:18:15,200 was redrawn to be you know, very few of his 388 00:18:15,319 --> 00:18:17,799 current constituents and it's in the sort of San Antonio 389 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,240 area and suburbs much more conservative. Voted for Trump by 390 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,480 like ten points. So I think, you know, I know 391 00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:26,680 that Doget's hope was that he would run in you know, 392 00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:29,480 his old district, in the Austin district, and Kasar would, 393 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,680 you know, try to make a stand for Democrats in 394 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,920 a district that's going to be hard for them to win. Kassar, 395 00:18:35,279 --> 00:18:37,839 who was on the Austin City Council, you know, it 396 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,039 was very much an Austin I was like, no, I'm 397 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,880 I'm going to be running in the new thirty seven, 398 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,119 the new Austin district. So there was a bit of 399 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,319 a shadow primary that played out between the two of them. 400 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,279 Speaker 4: Doug gets sort of. 401 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,279 Speaker 3: Swung first, and you know, put Out talked about it 402 00:18:51,319 --> 00:18:54,480 on TV, put out a sort of email to supporters saying, 403 00:18:55,079 --> 00:18:58,720 you know, my experience is worthwhile, and explicitly saying Kazar 404 00:18:58,799 --> 00:18:59,599 should run in the New. 405 00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 4: Thirty five instead. 406 00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 3: Kasar behind the scenes sort of starting putting together you know, 407 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,279 polsters and endorsements and all types of things, and I 408 00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:13,559 think dog it to his chagrin. I think it's pretty 409 00:19:13,599 --> 00:19:16,119 clear he still wishes Kassar run in thirty five and 410 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,079 he would have stayed. But I think saw that it 411 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,440 was going to be a divisive primary at the very least, 412 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:22,920 that it was going to be hard fought. And he 413 00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:25,240 still says, you know that he would have won, but 414 00:19:25,319 --> 00:19:28,039 he feels like it wasn't worth, you know, dividing up 415 00:19:28,079 --> 00:19:31,279 Austin and you know, turning into a potentially ugly primary. 416 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,160 And he is seventy eight, double check me on that, 417 00:19:35,839 --> 00:19:38,200 so you know he's up there. Kasar is pretty young. 418 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,200 Kasar's thirty six. So he decided that if the maps 419 00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:45,279 hold in court, that he will step aside and Kassar 420 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,880 can run and presumably win in the New thirty seven. 421 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting case because I think on its face, 422 00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:56,279 like if you don't follow politics that closely, you're it 423 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,720 fits into the narrative of like, you know, a young 424 00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:04,039 and you know, very progressive person of color versus like 425 00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:06,000 an older white man essentially. 426 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 2: But I mean they're both very progressive. 427 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,799 Speaker 1: I mean I think they chair and co chair the 428 00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:13,160 House Progressive Caucus. 429 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 2: Like, they're very politically aligned. I think on a lot 430 00:20:15,519 --> 00:20:18,079 of things, this is not a I. 431 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,559 Speaker 1: Mean, I guess in many ways it is old guard 432 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,359 new guard, just age wise, but it's like not a 433 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,799 huge policy split. 434 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:26,759 Speaker 2: Is that fair to say? 435 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Kasar is it's only on a second term. 436 00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:32,720 He's definitely like a rising star. I think somebody would 437 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:36,279 say he's already the star artist Lady Rose. He's the 438 00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:38,599 chair of the Progressive of the Caucus, dogget who's been 439 00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:41,759 in Congress since the nineties. He's also in the Progressive Caucus. 440 00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:43,599 I think he's a vice chair. So yeah, these are 441 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,799 two people who like ideologically are not that different. It's 442 00:20:45,839 --> 00:20:49,640 just sort of stylistic. Yeah, I mean I think definitely 443 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,359 like the racial element would have played out in a 444 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,000 primary and that, you know, but I think the whole 445 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,759 thing was going to sort of force uncomfortable conversations about age, 446 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,920 especially because Lloyd Doggett was the first Democrat to call 447 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,839 on Joe Biden to not run after Biden's debate last 448 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,119 year against Trump, where you know, he really faltered. So 449 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,759 there was just a lot of a lot of issues 450 00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:13,119 that Democrats are kind of dancing around or talking about 451 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,440 more like post Biden and figuring out what happened. I 452 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,680 think would have really come to the fore and already 453 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,440 did somewhat in that shadow primary. But yeah, it would 454 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,079 have exposed I think a lot of the tensions you know, 455 00:21:26,519 --> 00:21:28,960 vibes wise and identity wise the Democrats have not so 456 00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:29,359 much like. 457 00:21:29,319 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: Actually on policy right right, No, it's super interesting and 458 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,359 I mean interesting again, like just a lot of longevity 459 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,480 that's being lost on the smaller and soon to be 460 00:21:39,519 --> 00:21:42,519 much smaller Democratic side of the of the delegation. 461 00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:44,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. 462 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: Really, I think both parties obviously, as we've talked about, 463 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,640 having a real reckoning about like age versus experience. 464 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, Dogget's been there. 465 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,559 Speaker 3: He's elected in ninety four, so I mean he's really 466 00:21:54,079 --> 00:21:55,759 one of the I think he's the dean of the 467 00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:59,240 Texas delegation he's like the longest serving member and you know, 468 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,400 really he's number two on Democrat on Ways and Means, 469 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,640 which is like the most powerful tax writing committee. 470 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,519 Speaker 4: So he it's interesting he you. 471 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,559 Speaker 3: Know, was there for the era of liberal Texas, whereas 472 00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:14,720 because so far, you know, was that's not a Texas 473 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,279 that he remembers. So it just would have been a 474 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,920 very interesting sort of It would have been a really 475 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:21,759 interesting primory on. 476 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:22,319 Speaker 4: That level too. 477 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Lloyd Doggett, former Texas Supreme Court justice, 478 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,880 which now feels crazy to think when where the Texasupreme 479 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:30,680 Court stands. 480 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 3: Name house, when Democrats had a majority and all that. 481 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,799 I mean, yeah, he he came to Congress the year 482 00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:38,319 that Anna Richards lost the governorship for Dems to never 483 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,759 reclaim it. So I mean the narrative staff would have 484 00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:42,319 been would have been very juicy. 485 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, for sure. 486 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: So obviously we're also like just going to see and 487 00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:48,279 we don't yet know what this will look like, but 488 00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:50,000 we're going to see a lot of ripple effects from 489 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,400 this redistricting, a lot of Democrats potentially losing their seats 490 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,799 or having to run in like much tougher districts. Like 491 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,960 to look into the crystal ball, you know, for a 492 00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:04,480 year and a half from now. I mean, what what 493 00:23:04,519 --> 00:23:07,680 do you think the delegation ultimately will look like after 494 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,119 twenty twenty six, assuming these maps stay in effect and 495 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,920 sort of people do what they say they're going to do. 496 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's really gonna cull the sort of 497 00:23:14,759 --> 00:23:16,720 experience of the delegation in a lot of ways. So 498 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,200 I mean, of the longest tenured members, you've got Doggett, 499 00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:22,880 who you know, assuming the map gets held up in court, 500 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:23,440 will be gone. 501 00:23:23,599 --> 00:23:28,039 Speaker 4: You've got McCall who will be gone. Henry Kuoyar is. 502 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,759 Speaker 3: Now redrawn into a district that I think he very 503 00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:32,920 much still could win, but he you know, he could lose. 504 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,319 Speaker 4: It's now a Trump plus ten district. 505 00:23:34,319 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: It was a Trump plus seven or you know, he's 506 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,000 still under incitement and you know, we'll see if that 507 00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:41,839 goes to trial. But he's also he was also elected 508 00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:42,480 in two thosand and four. 509 00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 4: One of the longest serving. 510 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 3: Members Pete's sessions in John Carter on their Republican side, 511 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,119 have been there for quite a while. But they're you know, 512 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,039 getting older, so we'll see how much longer they stay there. 513 00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:56,279 Mark VC had a district that was targeted. 514 00:23:56,319 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 4: He's been there for. 515 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 3: A while, he could end up leaving Congress, and so 516 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,799 I think you're just going to see a delegation that 517 00:24:01,839 --> 00:24:06,640 has much more junior members and you know, much fewer 518 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,759 people who have really experienced like Republican congresses, Democratic congresses, 519 00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:15,720 different presidential administrations, like working with different people, have a 520 00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:18,240 sort of set of issues that's changed over time, and 521 00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:20,119 so like, I think some people will say, yeah, it's good, 522 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,599 like let's get these people who've been there forever, these 523 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:23,400 dinosaurs out. 524 00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:24,799 Speaker 4: Then I think some people would say. 525 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,319 Speaker 3: You know, this is experience that matters when you bring 526 00:24:27,319 --> 00:24:29,440 into the legislative process and when you're trying to sort 527 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:34,039 of advocate for Texas specific priorities. But it's you know, 528 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,599 for sure, I think going to be a much younger, 529 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:38,440 much less experienced Texas. 530 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: Delegation, right and almost inevitably, I mean certainly much more 531 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,319 read right, like a little bit less yeah. 532 00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 4: Right right. 533 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 3: I mean we'll see if they win of those of 534 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,559 course you're on seats three, four or five, but I 535 00:24:49,559 --> 00:24:51,880 think you know, everyone agrees are going to win at least. 536 00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: Three, right, right, Yeah, it's going to be I mean, 537 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,960 it's just so interesting the long tail. I think there's 538 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,119 so much attention of course right now and redistricting and 539 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,160 well the MAS and how did they pass and the 540 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,000 corn break and all that, but it's like, you know, 541 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:06,200 people will win offices that they might hold for decades 542 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,119 as we've seen, you know, like this could really fundamentally 543 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,960 shift things, and like not even in good or bad ways, 544 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,480 just like in the boring ways that your representative you know, 545 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,039 gets stuff done for you in DC that has nothing 546 00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:21,240 to do with politics, but it's like, no, that's. 547 00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 4: Part of it. 548 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 3: I mean, it's really like a generational opportunity for ambitious 549 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,480 Republicans in the state because there's so many friendly seats 550 00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:30,000 now open. I mean, big opportunity for Republican consultants too, 551 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,640 right somebody, But yeah, I mean there's you know, five 552 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,519 seats that could flip. There's three retirements. We'll see if 553 00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:42,599 there's more. There's also two you know, big primaries Dan 554 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,880 Crenshaw and two in Houston and Tony Gonzalez and twenty 555 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,720 three along the border. You know that is those are 556 00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:51,519 the potential to flip always. So yeah, there's just huge 557 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:56,920 opportunity for Republicans looking to break into federal politics in Texas. 558 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like like we think about like meticulous map 559 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,680 drawing and then it's just like a tornado ripping through 560 00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:06,400 essentially not you know, just like all of these forces 561 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,799 combined as like a tornado ripping through the delegation in 562 00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:09,640 a lot of ways. 563 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely. 564 00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:15,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, on the other piece of the delegation, we may 565 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,000 also see a change, which is with on the Senate side, 566 00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:24,359 we've got a really contentious primary between John Cornyn and 567 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,599 you know, long time incumbent senator and current Texas Attorney 568 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,960 General Ken Paxton. We've talked about this race a lot 569 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,799 on this podcast, but you know, before we just even 570 00:26:35,799 --> 00:26:37,960 get into that race at all, there is another thing 571 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,559 sort of hanging over this of you know, a member 572 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,440 on the House side who may we're hearing like maybe 573 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:45,920 would be interested in getting into this. There's been a 574 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,000 lot of rumblings about Wesley Hunt maybe getting into it, 575 00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:52,480 another example of like youth versus experience and things like that. 576 00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:54,039 I mean, where does that sort of stand. I know 577 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,039 he's been running some statewide ads and stuff. 578 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's probably coming down to decision time 579 00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:01,880 for Wesley Hunt. For those who don't know, he's a 580 00:27:02,319 --> 00:27:06,240 second term congressman from Houston area, like West Houston up 581 00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:09,680 to like Tomball, and he was a big surrogate for 582 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:10,880 Trump during the campaign. 583 00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 4: He has been. 584 00:27:12,519 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 3: Sort of, you know, circling the waters of this Senate race. 585 00:27:16,039 --> 00:27:18,559 He's got aligned groups that have been putting millions of 586 00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:20,960 dollars into just trying to get his name idea up 587 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,279 I think statewide. And so his sort of I think 588 00:27:24,319 --> 00:27:27,720 the case for him would be that Cornan is you know, 589 00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:31,079 to quote unquote moderate, and like I hesitan to say 590 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,960 that because like again on policy, it's not like him 591 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,039 and Packson are radically different in terms of like what 592 00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:39,000 their vote record would be. But Vibes was that Cornyn 593 00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:41,799 can't win a primary and packs In is a liability 594 00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:44,039 in general because of all his various ethical issues, and 595 00:27:44,079 --> 00:27:46,480 that Hunt could sort of bridge the gap of being like, 596 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,960 you know, he satisfies the sort of MAGA base. You know, 597 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,960 he's very He was one of the first congressmen to 598 00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:55,759 endorse Trump when he announced he was running for reelection 599 00:27:55,839 --> 00:27:58,319 again in twenty two. But at the same time, he 600 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,720 doesn't have any you know, like allegations of affairs and 601 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,519 ethical issues and you know, all that all the stuff 602 00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:09,400 that Paxton comes with. So that's the sort of argument 603 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,720 for Hunt. The question is like, is he well known 604 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,680 enough in the state to like counteract to politicians who 605 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,000 have been there, you know, Cornyn forever, right since since 606 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,960 he was attorney general and Paxton, who's also been attorney. 607 00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:27,279 Speaker 2: General since what was it fourteen? Was ect in twenty fourteen? 608 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, yeah, so that'll be the question. He hasn't 609 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,319 gotten in yet, just you know, sort of circling, but 610 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,200 finally deadline in December, primaries in March, so I think 611 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,680 the time is fast approaching for him to make a decision, 612 00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:44,200 and if he does get in, then that's another opening 613 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,720 in the Houston area in a Republican. 614 00:28:46,279 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: State, right, Yeah, it's like everyone sort of watching for 615 00:28:49,759 --> 00:28:52,759 everyone else to move to figure out what that opens up. 616 00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, he has an enormous musical chairs effect for like every. 617 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:57,599 Speaker 2: Spent time of year. 618 00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:01,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean right, I mean that Ray is obviously 619 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,119 so interesting and really a different narrative, different entirely in 620 00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:07,799 the way that anytime Ken Paxton gets involved, it doesn't 621 00:29:07,839 --> 00:29:11,359 map onto traditional like it's not age versus experience. Ken 622 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,440 Paxton is younger than John Cornyn, but is not pitching 623 00:29:16,519 --> 00:29:21,759 as a young fresh face argument, but just you know, 624 00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:26,119 really really opposed to John Cornyn, and you know Cornan 625 00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:30,720 obviously spoke out during Paxton's attempted impeachment and things like that. 626 00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:34,440 So that's a real bare knuckles fight that's almost like 627 00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:36,839 separate from everything else happening in the in the. 628 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 4: Party, but have the same effect. 629 00:29:40,079 --> 00:29:42,319 Speaker 3: Right if Paxton words, which is like taking out one 630 00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:45,400 of the longest tenured members of the delegation on the 631 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,559 Senate side, and just you know, it would be a 632 00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:51,400 remaking of Texas Republicans in. 633 00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:52,599 Speaker 2: Congress for sure. 634 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,559 Speaker 1: I mean, you would have as your two senators Ken 635 00:29:54,599 --> 00:29:57,240 Paxton and Ted Cruz, who are you know, both sort 636 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,160 of fire. 637 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,759 Speaker 2: Brands in their own way. Would be very very interesting. 638 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean a period of major, major change. 639 00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:09,480 It's like the only thing guaranteed is that it will 640 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,200 be different in about a year and a half. But 641 00:30:13,319 --> 00:30:15,799 we are still currently all these people still have their 642 00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:18,880 jobs that they have currently, and so just give us 643 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,880 a little preview of like what is coming. We're in 644 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,519 the middle, we're about to be We're in the middle 645 00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:25,880 of a major political fight at the capitol, government shutdown 646 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,640 and things like that. What are the you know, what 647 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,119 are the things keeping the Texas delegation up at night? Right? 648 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 2: Now? 649 00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think government shutdown is a big one. 650 00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:37,319 Speaker 3: So the government runs out of money on September third, 651 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,920 not third, government runs out of money at Stember thirtieth. 652 00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:43,319 Otherwise we've already there, right, So if they do not 653 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,279 pass a funding built by then, which it doesn't look 654 00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:47,880 like they are because they're out all this week and 655 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,359 when they come back, the love like two days to 656 00:30:49,359 --> 00:30:53,440 figure it out, which seems unlikely, and Democrats are really 657 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,960 not in the mood I think, to sort of give 658 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,640 Republicans anything, including government funding. So it seems like we're 659 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,960 going to have to a shutdown, and I think it'll 660 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,599 be a sort of preview of what we'll see on 661 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,319 the campaign. Democrats are going to try to make this 662 00:31:05,319 --> 00:31:08,839 about healthcare. There are these tax credits for ACA and 663 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,000 rolies that drive premiums down that are expiring at the 664 00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:13,200 end of the year, and so Democrats will kind of 665 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,839 coalesced around an extension of those credits as like. 666 00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 4: A demand in exchange for government. 667 00:31:18,119 --> 00:31:22,039 Speaker 3: Funding, Whereas I think Republicans are, you know, trying to 668 00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:23,039 say Democrats. 669 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 4: Cause this shutdown by not voting for our bills. 670 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,279 Speaker 3: We're trying to do the work of the American people, 671 00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:29,119 you know, to fund the military, fund the border, x 672 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,880 y Z and so I think it'll be a bit 673 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,119 of a proxy war for the twenty six elections. That'll 674 00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:37,519 be interesting once, if, and when a deal is eventually reached, 675 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,079 we'll see if the usual characters, you know, Chip Roy, 676 00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:43,240 Michael Cloud, Keith Sealf members of the Freedom Caucus try 677 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:43,759 to stand in the. 678 00:31:43,759 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 4: Way of that. And then it'll also be interested to see. 679 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 3: You know, last time this happened in the spring, no 680 00:31:50,599 --> 00:31:54,400 House Democrats from Texas and I think almost none in 681 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,599 the entire caucus supported a funding bill, and it was 682 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,920 ten set Democratic senators who just you know, in a 683 00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,200 change for nothing, basically voted with Republicans to keep the 684 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,759 government open. And there was huge anger at Chuck Schumer 685 00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:06,880 over that. If people remember, I know it, there's so 686 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,559 much news a lifetime ago, go back to like a 687 00:32:09,559 --> 00:32:13,240 few months ago. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see 688 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,319 at some point, you know, shutdowns have to end and 689 00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:18,759 deals with to be reached. Typically and oftentimes like the 690 00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:20,759 party that forces it doesn't necessarily get anything. 691 00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 4: I think that's been historically true. So we'll see, you know, 692 00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:25,759 who folds and when. 693 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,759 Speaker 3: But if some of the Texas Democrats end up upset 694 00:32:28,759 --> 00:32:31,240 with what their leadership negotiates, I could definitely see that 695 00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:32,319 being a storyline as well. 696 00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean. 697 00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:38,039 Speaker 1: Certainly, like like you said, like, I mean, I feel 698 00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:41,079 like this from covering redistricting here in the quorum break 699 00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:43,240 and stuff, it is like inevitably all of this is 700 00:32:43,319 --> 00:32:45,680 just hashing out and testing out arguments for what's going 701 00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:47,839 to sort of sell to voters down the road. How 702 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,559 can you sell all of this, which in some degree 703 00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:52,599 is your job, you know, what do your constituents want? 704 00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 2: Who will send you? 705 00:32:54,039 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: Know? How can you give people what they want to 706 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,160 send you back? But it does seem to play out, 707 00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:06,160 and you know, I think you know, Roberson McCall was 708 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,920 saying this of like just much more a little bit 709 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,559 meaner than it used to be and a little bit 710 00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:14,200 more for like clicks and attention and TV which doesn't 711 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,640 lower the temperature on anything. 712 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:17,119 Speaker 2: Ever. 713 00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:18,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, certainly not. 714 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be interesting and if, especially if it becomes 715 00:33:20,079 --> 00:33:22,400 about these tax credits. There's such a big deal in 716 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,119 Texas because Texas never expanded MEDICID, so like the percentage 717 00:33:26,119 --> 00:33:28,079 of people in the state who are ACA and rulies 718 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,160 is a lot higher than almost any other state. And 719 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,920 so I wonder if that puts Texas Republicans whore otherwise 720 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,119 opposed to you know, most federal spending, like in a 721 00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,160 bind at all. So it'll be interesting to see how 722 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:37,720 the politics of. 723 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: It play out, Right, Definitely I'm curious, I mean sort 724 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,440 of before that you go, you before coming to this 725 00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:47,680 job covered the Nevada's congressional delegation. 726 00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 2: Is that right? How how does it compare? Like what 727 00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:56,039 are the is there? Obviously scale is part of it, I imagine. 728 00:33:55,759 --> 00:33:56,559 Speaker 4: Scale is huge. 729 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,079 Speaker 3: And Nevada had four House members and two senators, and 730 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,279 there were five Democrats almost all like very polished. They 731 00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:05,839 all run in you know, the two senators obviously as 732 00:34:05,839 --> 00:34:07,440 a swing state, and then the three Dems are all 733 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,960 in like battleground districts. So they're all very careful, pretty moderate, 734 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,360 pretty measured. And then the one Republican from up north 735 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:19,800 was just a character who but you know, almost always 736 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,679 put with leadership, never caused problems really for Republicans. And 737 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,400 so it's a much broader range of like types of 738 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,280 Republicans for me, certainly, like by quantity, but also by 739 00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:33,000 what they're interested in. And Yeah, going from the swing 740 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,880 state to a red state has also been just like 741 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,920 a different set of set of issues and things people 742 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,239 care about. And seeing the I think, like the Republican 743 00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:46,159 infighting that happens, especially like you and other people have 744 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,480 reported Rinzo right, like at the state party level and 745 00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:51,960 things like that is super interesting to me, just because, 746 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,599 like coming from Nevada, like both the Democratic and Republicans 747 00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:56,920 I think try as much as they could to like 748 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,559 tamp down dissent because they're so focused on just getting 749 00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:03,599 the fifty. And so it's a different, different set of 750 00:35:03,679 --> 00:35:06,519 challenges that the parties face in Texas, which I'm learning 751 00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:09,280 about every day and is really interesting to me. 752 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, much more unruly bunch, which I guess anytime you've 753 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,639 got more people, it's you know, more personalities. 754 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. 755 00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: Well, really appreciate you sort of going through all that 756 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,119 with us. If you want to read more about the 757 00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:25,920 DC shenanigans, you can find all of Gabby's reporting at 758 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,960 Texastribune dot org. As we said before, this week's episode 759 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,159 of the trib Cast is brought to you by you, 760 00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:35,199 the members of the Texas Tribune Our Fall Member drive 761 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,599 is happening now. We need five hundred Texans to make 762 00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:41,159 a first time donation. Become a member today at Texastribune 763 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,000 dot org slash donate, Write and how much you love 764 00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:49,239 the Trib Cast and make sure you tune in next week. 765 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,920 Our producers are Rob and Chris. You can get the 766 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,559 podcast anywhere you find your podcast or on YouTube and 767 00:35:55,599 --> 00:36:06,480 we will see you right before government shutdown.