WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.320 I was literally raised on a property in the Cattaraugus 2 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:10.199 Indian Reservation area of New York and Pennsylvania, Erie County, 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:14.960 and my father was full blooded Lakota Sue and my 4 00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:19.160 mother was Cherokee and Shawnee. And my mother at the time, 5 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:24.719 I didn't realize that she was dabbling into the Native 6 00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:27.920 American end of the dark arts when I was a child, 7 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:33.039 and so I got involved in a lot of the 8 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.719 paranormal stuff in the ceremonies, the dark art ceremonies. As 9 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:40.719 far as being Native American goes from my mother's side 10 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:45.479 and all of her teachers. My father was traditional Lakota Sioue, 11 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:49.000 but he was a truck driver. He was hardly around 12 00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:52.759 growing up. But being back in those days, you didn't 13 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.640 have the internet, didn't have computers or cell phones or anything, 14 00:00:55.719 --> 00:01:00.520 so you tend to stay outside a lot. Okay, and 15 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:05.400 this is back in the sixties and seventies. And I 16 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:09.400 tend to love being out in nature. When I was 17 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:12.560 a kid, and I used to constantly go out ride 18 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:15.599 nerve bikes and stuff in the woods and go hiking 19 00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:19.239 on trails, go hunting by myself and all that. And 20 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:27.400 the first time I actually was told about the forest people. 21 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:31.239 My father and I were sitting at the kitchen table, 22 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:34.200 and it was about midnight. He had just gotten home 23 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:39.719 from Long Hall to the West Coast, and he had 24 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:41.920 told me because I told him I had heard some 25 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:47.280 like roars and some howls and stuff coming from the 26 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:50.040 woods that didn't sound like a coyote or you know, 27 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:52.959 or any animal or an owl or anything that I've 28 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:55.719 been used to hearing, you know. I mean, I've heard 29 00:01:55.760 --> 00:02:00.439 all of them. I've heard mountain lion, bobcat, you down, 30 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:06.359 from buffalo to elk to big horn sheep, you name it. 31 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:09.840 I've heard it all, and I've pretty much hunted it 32 00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:15.400 all my life until I got cancer. But I basically 33 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:21.479 learned from my father that the forest people made certain calls, 34 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.479 and I kind of got into it that way. As 35 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:29.520 a child. I got fascinated with it. I first I 36 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:33.319 started from my dad's descriptions and what I was hearing, 37 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:37.199 because I wasn't seeing things right away, because they won't 38 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:39.439 show themselves to you right away unless they're used to 39 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:43.039 seeing you a lot. That's the thing. At least this 40 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:49.719 group did that, okay, And basically it took about a 41 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:54.080 year or so as a kid, and I would be 42 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:56.800 playing out in the backyard and stuff, you know, doing 43 00:02:56.840 --> 00:02:59.479 what little kids do when you're five and six years old, 44 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:02.360 you know, with cars and the dirt and stuff. And 45 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:07.360 you know, then I started noticing them from the shadows 46 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:11.080 coming around, you know, big dark figures moving around tree 47 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:14.680 to tree, you know. And I remembered my father telling 48 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:21.960 me that there was four different types. And as I 49 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:25.280 was growing up, I interacted with two different types. I 50 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:29.319 interacted with the more human looking ones with the face, 51 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:34.199 and then the more aggressive type of ones that looked 52 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.319 more like an ape than they did a human. Okay, 53 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:42.120 so I and my father always told me there was 54 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.560 four distinctive types. You know. You had the small ones 55 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:48.479 that came up from South America, which are in the 56 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:52.840 swamps and stuff in the Everglades and the Arkansas, Louisiana, 57 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:57.080 you know, all that area, Mississippi, Alabama that get like 58 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:01.520 seven to eight feet tall. Okay, sometimes they get to 59 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.560 be nine ft tall, but there's no reports really that 60 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:09.159 I've heard of that made them any bigger. Net and 61 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:15.240 then you have what Native people called the gugway, which 62 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:19.959 is and growing up, another you know, traditional legend we 63 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:22.360 had was my family. My father and all my uncles 64 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:26.160 told me that we called him the bear man because 65 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:31.240 his snout wasn't really it wasn't a wolf snout, and 66 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:34.319 it wasn't a you know, an eight snout looking type 67 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:36.399 of thing. It was kind of in between which would 68 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:40.040 be like the bear. And this thing stood anywhere from 69 00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:43.879 nine to ten feet tall, and it was very aggressive, 70 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:49.199 very territorial. It would chase off the human looking ones. Okay, 71 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:53.040 it was very aggressive, okay, but they were more up 72 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:57.839 around the Canadian Great Lakes area or other parts of 73 00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:01.279 like the Yukon and stuff like that, up into Alaska. 74 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.000 Then you had the big ones coming down from Alaska 75 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:14.480 into the Pacific Northwest, northern California, Oregon, Washington State, Montana, Idaho, 76 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:20.160 even parts of Utah, even you know, as far as 77 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:26.600 into the Ozark Mountains, you know, and they got anywheres 78 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:29.680 from and what my dad said, they could be nine 79 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:31.720 feet tall fully grown, or they could be up to 80 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:35.920 fifteen sixteen feet tall fully grown. And then the human 81 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:39.160 looking ones, which were the ones along the Appalachian Mountain 82 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:44.399 chain and the Smoky Mountains, were family oriented. They got 83 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:48.519 about nine feet tall. They could be anywheres from eight 84 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:54.319 hundred nine hundred pounds. But they were protective of the family, 85 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:59.360 but yet they weren't as brutally aggressive as a lot 86 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:02.399 of the other ones were. And the way my father 87 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:06.680 described it to me was he basically looked at it 88 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:08.560 as well, if you had to live in a swamp 89 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:12.680 and fight for food every day with alligators and cotton 90 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:17.439 mouths and you know all these other things bobcats, you know, cougars, 91 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:23.360 you know, you'd be aggressive too, you'd have an attitude too. 92 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:28.040 And you know, I kind of took that to heart, 93 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:31.759 and I started first off drawing pictures of them as 94 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:36.160 a kid. And you know, as a kid, you hear 95 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:40.920 the descriptions being half human and half eight you know, 96 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:43.600 So I was drawn half human and half ape literally, 97 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.040 you know, right down the center, you know, half human 98 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.680 half epe, you know, as a kid, but you know, 99 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:52.800 you didn't know. And I was out riding my dirt 100 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:56.879 bike one time with my buddies, and we talked about 101 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:01.879 this at one of your events and and on the 102 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:05.920 podcast too, I remember, and we were riding in this 103 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:10.399 field and along to the outer edge of the field 104 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:14.439 there was this big forested area that we came through. Okay, 105 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:16.399 it was like a three foot wide path that the 106 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:20.759 motorcycle path came through through the woodline into this field. Now, 107 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:25.639 this field in the center, i'd say probably four feet 108 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:29.000 to six feet maybe at the most, and with around 109 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.079 the outer edge of the field was like a path 110 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:33.800 that we used to run down our dirt bikes with. 111 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:36.680 And what I mean dirt bikes, I mean motorcycles, I 112 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:41.240 don't mean bicycles. And so we padded this field down 113 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.680 pretty good, you know, from driving the motorcycles around it. 114 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.920 And I had a little Kawasaki, you know, one twenty 115 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:57.199 five and kzy one and at the time, and I 116 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:00.040 was going around the field and I came around the 117 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.600 third time, and i started hearing stuff off into the woods, 118 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:04.959 and I'm thinking, well, it's got to be a deer, 119 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.480 you know, you hear things crashing around and stuff. It's 120 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:10.519 hard to hear things over top of a two stroke 121 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.879 when it's popping and cracking a lot. So but I 122 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.399 stopped the motorcycle and as I got off the motorcycle, 123 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.600 I leaned down to shut the fuel line off. And 124 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:21.879 as I did that, I looked down the path that 125 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:27.720 we entered the woodline at and there was this the 126 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:32.759 only way to describe it. And this was probably the 127 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:38.360 first actual physical sighting I could say, other than maybe 128 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.200 taking glances out and going from tree to tree and 129 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:44.279 not really figuring out what it was, you know. But 130 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:49.480 this thing stood there and as I look back at it, 131 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:51.919 it literally turns and looks at me, and then it 132 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.519 looks back up to the tree and it was reaching 133 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:58.080 its arms up into tree like this, and I'm thinking, well, 134 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:00.559 what is it doing, you know, and it was it 135 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:02.919 was springtime, so I mean, they'll leaves around a tree 136 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:06.919 and stuff. And just down the path from there is 137 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:11.600 a wild grape growth, you know, where wild grapes are growing, 138 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:15.639 and we used to go there and literally pick grapes 139 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:20.240 right next to these things, you know, and there I 140 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.039 go call them them a thing again when I should 141 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:28.960 call them forest people. But at the time, you know, 142 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.799 being Native American and you're you're taught to you have 143 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:34.240 to teach that, you know, treat everything with respect. You know. 144 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:36.639 I have a respect and walk with reverence for everything, 145 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:40.279 you know, respect for everything, including the forest people. Okay. 146 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:44.720 And you know, growing up, we wouldn't think twice about 147 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:47.960 going and picking wild grapes, you know, or or chestnuts 148 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:53.399 for that matter, which is a whole nother story, because 149 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:56.080 they eat chestnuts too, and we had all kinds of 150 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:58.480 chestnut trees around there too. We had a rancher that 151 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:01.039 had all kinds of chestnut trees growing in his field. 152 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:04.320 We had apple orchards and stuff too, So I mean 153 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:08.840 the food around there was plentiful, especially you know in 154 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:11.639 the in the warm summer months and into you know 155 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:14.639 the late spring where the berries are starting to ripen, 156 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:18.360 you know. So it was, it was, it was phenomenal. 157 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:22.559 We had all kinds of game, wild game. But as 158 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:27.440 I looked down and it looked at me, I remember 159 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:29.639 what my dad said. My dad said, you know, don't 160 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:33.039 stare them in the eye. Don't look them in the eye, 161 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.759 be respectful. Look down. Okay, So I looked down. But 162 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:40.840 you know, when you're like twelve years old riding a 163 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:44.440 dirt bike with your buddies, and your buddies are standing 164 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:48.120 there and their jaws are open, you want to look up, 165 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:51.960 you know. So I did what any twelve year old 166 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:55.000 kid would do. I looked up and I observed this 167 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:57.840 thing and he reached up. I don't know if it 168 00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:00.639 was a he or she because the distance I had 169 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:04.159 even though it was a straight open shot, and looking 170 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:10.000 at it, I tend to think it was a young female, okay, 171 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:11.919 And it was every bit if it wasn't eight and 172 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:13.879 a half feet tall, it was every bit of nine 173 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:17.679 feet tall, okay, So it was it was. It was 174 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.399 probably a young female. But as it reached up, it 175 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.639 grabbed what it looked like looked like a little black bear, 176 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:32.440 but it was. It was obviously a smaller one, and 177 00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:36.600 I would hazard to say it was probably an infant, right, okay. 178 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:39.840 So it took it in its arms like this, and 179 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:42.919 it turned and as it turned to walk away, it 180 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:46.159 looked down at me again, and I'm staring at it now, 181 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:48.440 I mean, I'm looking at dead in the eyes, you know. 182 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:54.840 And the eyes were I don't even know how to 183 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:58.200 describe them. At that distance, they looked dark, okay, but 184 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:00.919 you could see the white in the eyes too that okay, 185 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:04.840 it wasn't all like dark like demonic, you know. But 186 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:08.559 it turned and it walked off into the woods. Didn't 187 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:10.399 even care that I was looking at it, didn't even 188 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:13.279 care that we were there, didn't have a care in 189 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:19.320 the world. And that was my first physical encounter with this, 190 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:20.720 you know, this type of thing. 191 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:23.440 It sounded like, if you don't mind saying it sounded 192 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:26.519 like it knew you didn't mean no harm. 193 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:29.919 Yeah, and I thought about that too, And as you know, 194 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:32.759 when you're that age, you don't you don't really tend 195 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:36.440 to rationalize things very well, you know, especially when you're 196 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:38.559 you're growing up in the country, because you tended to 197 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:40.559 you know, I mean, you're talking to a twelve year 198 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:42.720 old boy that you know, used to jump off of 199 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.840 his dad's you know, ham radio tower with a garbage 200 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:48.159 bag for God's safe as a parachute. I mean, we 201 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:51.960 did all kinds of crazy shit, you know, and you know, 202 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:56.240 it was it was something. It was. It was a 203 00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:01.039 very very breath taking away your breath type of a 204 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:04.639 of a first time sighting like that. And as I 205 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:07.120 think back to it, and then as I thought about 206 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:10.159 it later that evening with my buddies, I said, did 207 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:13.240 you see that? And they're like, yeah, what the hell 208 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.919 was that? And you know, they were, you know, a 209 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:18.000 year or two older than me, so you know, they 210 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:23.360 were just as curious as I was. And I said, well, 211 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:26.759 from what my dad and my uncles tell me, that 212 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:30.559 we just saw bigfoot, you know, And they're like no way. 213 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:35.120 And I'm like, yeah, we did well. Sure enough. A 214 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:41.000 week later, at a different location, across what they called 215 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:46.120 Walnut Creek, Okay, there's a there was a gravel pit, 216 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:49.240 and me and another buddy were driving riding our dirt 217 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:51.440 bikes and stuff in this gravel pit. And this gravel 218 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:54.919 pit went into the woodline along the edge of the 219 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:58.639 cliff where the creek was, and back out again like 220 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:02.080 a square, you know, back out into the gravel pit. 221 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.000 So you'd go around the gravel pit, go up and 222 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:06.240 down some hills and back in the woods and throw 223 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:08.639 it and back out again, you know, over and over again. 224 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:14.879 And I didn't think anything of having another encounter with them, 225 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:19.399 But sure enough, I should have brought those things out 226 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.720 that David made for me, David and Melissa, because they 227 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:31.360 made those little three D molds. Oh yeah, yea of 228 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:35.279 what my sightings were. And I mean, it's actually to 229 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:37.480 a te Maybe I'll bring them out a little bit later. 230 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.080 But as I came around a third time, he went 231 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.679 into the woodline and made my left and went down 232 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:50.159 the trail, this branch was come out of nowhere and 233 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:54.399 it hit my front tire and my spokes and I 234 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:56.519 you know, I'm only doing like twenty miles an hour 235 00:14:56.559 --> 00:14:58.720 because it was muddy and it was a trail you 236 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:02.320 don't want to kill yourself. But I did an end though, 237 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:06.039 and I got to burn on my calf muscle from it, 238 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:09.559 and the motorcycle landed on me. And as I went 239 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:12.559 to push the motorcycle off of me, I looked up 240 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:16.360 and they're not even twenty feet away from me. Was standing. 241 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:19.600 This was this big foot. The only way and I 242 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.799 described it to David as best as I could, The 243 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:27.039 only way I could describe it was it was like 244 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:31.320 looking at the incredible Hulk with hair. I mean, it 245 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:36.559 was massive. It was every bit of the alpha predator 246 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.320 that you would imagine, you know, a monster would be, 247 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:44.159 you know, and it just kind of looked at me, 248 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:46.720 and it was curious. It looked like it was curious 249 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:49.919 with what I was doing, but it also looked angry 250 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:53.480 with me, and it went it went you know, like that, 251 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.120 you know, like disgusted, you know, like your dad would get, 252 00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.440 you know, if he'd do something wrong, he got disgusted 253 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:02.919 with you or said something stupid. You know. He kind 254 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.320 of did that to me, but then he had a 255 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:09.039 smirk on his face. And I'm thinking to myself, he's 256 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:12.759 some of them, you know. I mean, here I am. 257 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:15.279 We got a motorcycle, you know, laying on top of me, 258 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:19.799 and whatever you are, you're smirking at me, and it's 259 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:22.879 it's a human emotion. And the more I looked at it, 260 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.399 the more his face actually didn't look apish. It looked 261 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:28.120 more human. But it had hair, you know, full beard, 262 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:33.960 you know, mustache, you know, the jaw was really pronounced okay, 263 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:38.600 but it's head. There was no neck. It was solid muscle. 264 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:43.960 I mean, it was like muscle, shoulders, you know what 265 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:49.360 I mean. It was massive. Okay. So anyways, I look 266 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:52.080 around and I got the motorcycle off. I mean I 267 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:53.840 look around and there was a smaller one off to 268 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:57.360 the side over you know, about probably twenty thirty yards away, 269 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:03.759 and there was a dough laying down. Well, the dough 270 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.640 must have been scared. Either that or they had some 271 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:11.640 way of immobilizing the dough so they could grab it. 272 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.799 And every now and then we've heard reports of like 273 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:19.279 deers being found with their heads ripped on, you know, 274 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.920 and you wouldn't you wouldn't think, you know, we'd chalk 275 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:27.240 it up to poachers. You know, but why would a 276 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:29.519 poacher just take the head and leave the body there. 277 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.119 And you could find these bodies actually up in a 278 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.000 crook of a tree, hanging upside down, so the blood 279 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:38.240 would drain out of them. It was like something with 280 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:42.440 intelligence was putting these deer up in the tree, you know, 281 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:44.680 and we'd find them every every spring. 282 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:50.400 And you know, the strangest thing or what I find odd. 283 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:54.559 On three different occasions in my main research area, I 284 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:57.480 have seen the carcasses or the remains, the full skeletal 285 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:01.359 remains of a deer on the front of their skull 286 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:03.960 there the snout on the moat you will be ripped off. 287 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.079 I found that on three different occasions. Yeah, someone told 288 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:08.519 me there could be mountain lion doing it. 289 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:10.880 Well, it could be, but mountain lion. And this is 290 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.480 from from from my my interactions with mountain lions. And 291 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:16.720 I've had that too, because I've done the mountain lion hunts. 292 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:20.960 They tend to go and attack you from behind, and 293 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.839 they go for the back of your head and your neck. 294 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:29.880 They don't go for your face. Bigger cats, the mountain 295 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.000 lions probably would like an African lion or something along 296 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:36.279 that lines. But as far as I've ever heard mountain 297 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:38.920 lions are always either they either go for your your 298 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:41.640 they go for your first off, they're going to attack 299 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:44.440 you from above or behind. That's the only time they're 300 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:46.160 going to attack you. They're not going to take you 301 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:48.440 on head on. Lists they're protecting their their you know, 302 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.440 their kits. You know, they're they're young, and it's a 303 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.319 mother mountain lion. So that's when they're gonna come at 304 00:18:55.359 --> 00:19:00.279 you from the front to scarey you off. But yeah, 305 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:04.279 seeing that, you know over the years, you know, from 306 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:06.640 hunting and stuff, just kind of you know, gave you 307 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:09.240 an uneasy feeling, you know that something was doing that, 308 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.200 you know, looking to do to a human, you know. 309 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:16.119 And anyways, to finish that story up, I got on 310 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:20.640 the motorcycle and it just stood there watching me. And 311 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:23.519 I mean it was literally I could have it probably 312 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:25.400 if it wanted to, it could have grabbed me off 313 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.720 that motorcycle and carried me off without a problem. But 314 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:35.039 it didn't. Okay, And looking at its eyes and just 315 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:38.759 the human emotion in its face from the reactions of 316 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:43.240 seeing this dumb ass kid, you know, basically do an 317 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:45.599 end though I mean to him, it was it was humorous, 318 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:47.839 you know, but he was also pissed off because I 319 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.200 realized I interrupted his hunting. He was hunting the dough 320 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.680 and my loud ass dirt bike going through the trails 321 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.200 probably screwed everything up. There was probably even more year 322 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.440 there than just the one, so I probably screwed everything 323 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.079 up for him, And that's why he threw the branch 324 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:11.920 at me. I see only bad situation I've ever had 325 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:15.880 with them growing up, Okay, and I mean it. Let 326 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.119 me pick my motorcycle up, it, let me start my 327 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.440 motorcycle back up and let me get out of there. 328 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:26.079 Didn't try to harm me whatsoever, you know, And and 329 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:27.240 that was it for a while. 330 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:30.799 Real quick, What what state did this take place in? 331 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.599 Him? This was in New York? In New York? Yeah, 332 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:38.559 this was around Genesee River, because the Genesee River Regatta 333 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.079 was a big thing up in New York. Cattaraugus area 334 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:50.039 of New York, Jamestown, New York area. Erie County bordered 335 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:55.200 it in Pennsylvania, and the majority of my encounters were 336 00:20:55.519 --> 00:21:02.160 in Erie County, Pennsylvania, And you know, it just snowballed 337 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:05.519 from there. And I just I got such a fascination 338 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.799 from those first two encounters that I just I got 339 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:12.000 into it and I couldn't get enough of it. You know. 340 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:14.640 I was already in love with being out in the wilderness, 341 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:17.640 you know, and camping and hunting and stuff, so why 342 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.000 not look for a monster, you know? You know, and 343 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.079 the more I talked to my uncles and my dad, 344 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:28.799 you know, about these things, I learned about other things. 345 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:34.519 And you know, there's more than just bigfoot out there. 346 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:37.319 You know, there's more than just the four types of 347 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:40.720 bigfoot out there, is what I was told there is, 348 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:47.559 and you know, I've been I'm actually an ordained minister 349 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:50.960 for the Native American Church. So I grew up doing 350 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.440 the ceremonies and stuff along with the dark magic and 351 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:55.400 all that too that my mother was teaching me as 352 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:57.440 a child, all the way until I was like fourteen 353 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:02.519 years old, and so I know a lot about the 354 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:06.839 supernatural aspect of things, you know, the paranormal aspect of things, 355 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:14.200 through ceremonies, through incantations, you name it, even even manifestation 356 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:18.559 through prayers. Those are just all part of the culture, 357 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.799 you know, when you're growing up. And when I got 358 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.880 out of of the dark arts of it, when my 359 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:29.160 mother got religion and I used the air quotes because 360 00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:32.920 it didn't last very long because she went back to 361 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:38.599 their old ways. But you know, you learn a lot, 362 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:44.920 you know. And recently with what I've been battling with 363 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.759 the cancers and stuff and having the near death experience 364 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:52.640 and all that I've I've come to realize that everything 365 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.680 is connected. You know, when when when Native American people 366 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.720 talk about the web of life and how every connected 367 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:02.799 and what we do to the web, we do to ourselves, 368 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.200 you know, which is a cheap seattle saying, you know, 369 00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:10.880 it's it's it's like the teachings of the medicine wheel. 370 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:14.799 You know. We have this medicine wheel that we we 371 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:18.240 we use for you know, some of us use it 372 00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:20.680 for vision quests. Uh. Some of us use it for 373 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:26.640 personal protections. You know. Certain designs represent protection to Native Americans. 374 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:32.279 The medicine wheel basically is is a cross inside a hoop, 375 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:38.160 and its representation represents the four directions of the wind, 376 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:44.000 the north to southeast to west. It represents the the 377 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:51.319 spring which basically starts out as the seed in the 378 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:54.039 in the top right corner of it, and then the 379 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:59.039 bottom quarter section of it is the young tree, the sapling, 380 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.880 the next tree over is the adult tree, and then 381 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:06.799 the top left section, the quarter of the medicine wheel 382 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:09.200 represents the age of tree, which drops the seed and 383 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:16.920 the cycle repeats itself. Okay, Well, when you're young, elders 384 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.839 tend to give you a starting position on this medicine. 385 00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:24.920 Wheell start your journey. North would be abundance. The white 386 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:29.599 buffalo would be the medicine animal representing it. It's different 387 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:33.680 for every native culture, but some of them tend to 388 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:39.079 be the same. You know, different colors are associated with it. 389 00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:45.759 With white as north, black as west, red would be south, 390 00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:53.039 yellow would be east because of the sunrise, you know. 391 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.440 So I mean they give you a starting point and 392 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:01.200 in your spiritual path, the danae we'll call it a 393 00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:05.720 walk in beauty, okay. We call it the red road, okay. 394 00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:11.359 And it's where you're supposed to seek your medicines, your 395 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:18.400 your spiritual medicine, okay. And I remember I was out 396 00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.480 one time doing a humbla sha, which is a vision quest, 397 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.920 and one of my elders was with me, not with 398 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.119 my uncle, a very good friend. He was an elder 399 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:32.200 of mine. And this is right after I got out 400 00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:36.279 of the military, and I did a vision quest down 401 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:42.519