Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join
us as we dive into the deep end of the
unexplainable and try to.
Speaker 2: Piece together what happened. If you are listening to Locations Unknown, ooh,
what's up everybody?
Speaker 1: And welcome back to another episode of Locations Unknown, I'm
your co host Joey Rodwin. With me, as always is
a guy who started Conformity Gate. Mike vander Bogart. What
is that? That's the Netflix Stranger Thing Secret ninth episode.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, the thing you've been talking about? Yeah, okay, cool.
Well I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: For the record, I didn't think it was gonna happen.
Speaker 1: But it was fun watching all the people get so
upset that the finale was so bad they created a
thing in their head that there might be a secret
better one.
Speaker 2: Did you.
Speaker 3: I saw a news report from New York. All these
people were following someone on TikTok that said there was
going to be a big New Year's Eve Firicks show
on the Brooklyn Bridge. Oh yes, thousands of people showed
up and they're like three two one, all right?
Speaker 2: Edi that ever happened?
Speaker 1: He should have just posted that there's like technical difficulties
and it never happened, right, keep it going.
Speaker 2: Okay, well we'll cut all that out.
Speaker 1: Not everyone who's like it was because it wasn't that bad,
Like it was eh, but everyone was like, you can't
end a finale that bad. I was like, have you
you've seen Game of Thrones or Sopranos. Sopranos was better
than Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones is one that
they should actually just redo. I guess that final scene
in Sopranos. It's grown on me. When I watched it originally,
I was like, that's it.
Speaker 2: It just cut the black Yeah, spoiler alert.
Speaker 1: Well it's better than having the whole final season just
be awful awful and the best episode you can't see. Yeah,
the best episode the whole season is the battle and
it looks like you're wearing like five pairs of sunglasses.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not how I would have done it. But okay, anyway, anyway,
where were we formity Gate? This is the Stranger Things episode,
Happy New Year, Every Monny New Year. We are into
twenty twenty six. It's already shaping up to be a
weird one. I think not going to get into any
current events, but a lot has gone on since we
spoke to you last.
Speaker 2: We'll just leave it at that.
Speaker 3: It's getting weird out there, so we're going to try
to bring it back down the earth and talk about.
Speaker 2: We're going to try and talk.
Speaker 3: Ope it just keeps playing my bad we'll cut all
this out, but no we won't. We'll bring it back
down the earth and talk about more lighthearted things like
unexplained disappearances.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's what everyone came here for anyway.
Speaker 3: So just a few announcements before we finally get going,
if that ever happens. We don't actually have any new
patron shouts, so pretty sad.
Speaker 1: Nobody gifted anybody Locations unknown for Christmas or the holidays, well.
Speaker 3: I mean time, times are a little tough. All people
are tightening their belts, especially around Christmas. Yeah, that's okay,
buy lots of stuff. Having two little kids, I had
to buy a bunch of toys that they're not going.
Speaker 2: To use in a year. Yep, No, we all donated later.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you want to call the show, we're going
to do another voicemail episode at some point here. I
think we've got enough of them now. No, we could
always have more we could do a two part always
have more, Oh, we could always have more. Yeah, please,
so you can call two eight three nine three Joe.
My new Year's resolution this year is to not say
it as much a people listening might not know this
because I now edit our episodes. But there was an
episode recently where I said, over four hundred times in the.
Speaker 1: Episode, are you kidding me? It's all going to cut out?
I know that's right, but just leave at least that
one in.
Speaker 3: Just be thankful that we have the sense to edit now,
because that's a lot of ums. It was is at
least three or four minutes of solid ms. We only
edit things like that. Yeah, we obviously leave in the
rest of the stuff we do, for better or for worse.
We have some other podcasts. I just said, uh, and
I did it again, just kidding with you guys, we
ah did it again. We have new podcasts on the network,
so we have relish I got it right this time,
Hike and Seek Crime Off the Grid? Who runs this
park off the Trails? And there is a new podcast
Joe is diligently working on to get onto the network.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're actually going to record it in our studio. Oh,
you're talking about the one you sent me an email.
Oh yeah, okay, Oh so we have two coming up.
We have two, Yes, we're gonna the other one's piloting pilot.
Speaker 2: See how it goes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exciting stuff in that department. If you want to
support us, you can head over to Patreon, YouTube memberships,
premium subscriptions on Apple, and spreaker and buy some stuff
from our store. We really this year, we're going to
get some more products on our Yeah, we have hats,
great hat. We have playing cards. Show them the playing cards.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to try and put it on your head.
Oh yeah, we do have playing cards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty cool, awesome, And there's a bunch of other
stuff and we're going to start. I'm thinking we're going
to reach out to someone to help design shirts.
Speaker 1: I just realized that I've been trying to like zoom
in here when I literally can just do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, well that New Year knew me. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So yeah, we're going to get someone to help us
with coming up with some cool shirts. Outside of that,
do anything fun over New Year's.
Speaker 1: Joe went to your hometown, like Geneva, the Grand Geneva,
the Old Playboy Club. It's no longer that it's now
a water park for families.
Speaker 2: We went there.
Speaker 3: I think they converted that in the eighties, Yes they did. Yeah, yeah,
I've heard stories. Yep, so I don't know. I was
in a water park with a bunch of families. Yeah,
it was fun, though times have changed, I know, right,
How about yourself?
Speaker 2: What'd you do?
Speaker 3: I fell asleep on my couch on Year's Eve and
barely remember to wake up to see the ball drop.
Speaker 1: So you're like fifty something nine years old, I'm aging
in dog years. And with that, all right, everybody, let's
gear up and get out to explore locations unknown. February thirteenth,
twenty fourteen, a fifty six year old experienced outdoorsman drives
deep into Arizona's Tanto National Forest for a planned multi
day solo hike. After parking along a quiet highway near
the community of Young, he leaves behind a note describing
his route and steps into some of the most rugged
backcountry in the state. Days later, concern begins to grow,
triggering a large scale search across remote canyons and forested
ridge lines.
Speaker 2: What happened in the vast wilderness?
Speaker 1: Join us this week as we investigate the mysterious disappearance
of Paul Victor Tomaso. So we are going to the
Tanto National Forest, specifically the Bordered Tree Saddle region. This
is in Arizona and it was established in nineteen oh five.
It sees roughly five point eight million visitors per year,
so it's no small area of the country. It's just
northeast of Phoenix, so it's it's close enough to a
large populated area.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So some interesting facts about Olympic National Park. Nope, not Ape,
not Olympic. I'm sorry, that's Tanto my fault. I'm ron Bergundy.
I read how it is written. It's one of the
most ecologically diverse national forests in the US. So Tanto
spans the Sonoran Desert lowlands to pine forest near a
gullen rim, meaning you can pass through multiple climate zones
in a single day. Elevation changes are extreme. They go
from roughly thirteen hundred feet to nearly eight thousand feet,
which is why temperatures, vegetation, and wildlife changed so dramatically.
Across the forest contains ancient cliff dwellings, the pueblos and
ruins from the Salado and indigenous cultures. Some dating back
over seven hundred years. It is at three million anchors acres.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I said.
Speaker 1: Anchors Tanto National Forest is one of the largest national
forces in the country and is larger than some of
the US state's park systems. Major reservoirs within its boundaries
so Reosevelt Lake, Apache Lake, and Canyon Lake are all
within the forest and play a critical role in Central
Arizona's water system. Despite its name, much of it isn't forested,
so large portions look nothing like what people imagine a
forest should be. Wide open desert cactus covered hillsides in
a rocky canyon dominate the lower elevations. It is one
of the most visited national forests in the United States.
Millions of people each year visit, largely because it borders
Phoenix metro area. As Mike said, yet vast interior sections
remain extremely remote and lightly travel You can experience snow
and cactus in the same day. In winter and early spring,
it's possible to hike among snow dusted pines at high
elevations and end the day among swaros below. You had
to not pronounce the G. I think we've been yelled
at yelled at we have is it suarros cuarros? I
don't want to say yes or no because it's probably wrong.
We're wrong, It doesn't matter it call the number we need, voicemails.
Speaker 2: Whatever you said sounded right. Thank you, Mike. New Year,
New Year, New year, knew me. Climate.
Speaker 1: The area of the Tanto National Forest near young sits
at the higher elevation than most people associate with Arizona.
Elevations in this region range roughly from forty five hundred
to over sixty five hundred feet, which means the climate
here behaves much more like a mountain environment than a
desert one. In mid February, daytime temperatures can feel relatively mild,
often climbing into the forties fifties and occasionally even warmer
in direct sunlight, but once the sun drops, temperatures fall quickly.
Nighttime lows commonly dip to the twenties or low thirties,
and can even be colder in shaded drainages or at
higher elevations. One of the biggest hazards in this area
is the dramatic temperature swing between day and night. A
hiker who is comfortable and active during the day can
become dangerously cold after sunset, especially if they are injured, fatigued,
or unable to keep moving. The rapid shift significantly increases
the risk of hypothermia even without extreme weather. Winter weather
is part of the Tanto National Forest is also predictable.
Unpredictable February can bring rain, sleet, or snow, particularly during
massive storms passing storm systems. Snow accumulation is possible on
north facing slopes and higher terrain, which can make navigation
more difficult and obscure tracks or landmarks. Wind exposure adds
another layer of risk. Saddles and ridgelines are often windy
and cold. Wind dramatically accelerates heat loss through wind chill.
Combined with shorter winter daylight hours, these conditions limit how
far a person can safely travel and reduce the margin
for air if something goes wrong. Even in winter, the
air remains dry, Dehydration can occur more quickly than people expect,
especially during sustained hiking. Once dehydration sets in, fatigue and
poor decision making often follow, compounding the dangers posed by
cold and terrain. Taken together, these conditions mean that it
is in part in this part of Arizona a relatively
small problem, a twisted ankle, a wrong turn, or delayed
return can escalate rapidly into a life threatening situation. So
a little bit about the terrain. The region of Tanto
National Force, where Paul Tomas's vehicle was located and where
he was last believed to enter the back country, is
extremely rugged and geographically diverse. This part of central Arizona
transitions quickly from low and relatively flat desert train into steep,
dissected hills and mountain foothills that extend towards the mcgallan rim,
a major geological escarpment north of the Phoenix area, across
the forest nearly three million acres elevations very dramatically. As
we said before, from roughly thirteen hundred feet in low
Sonoran Desert to eight thousand feet near the Upland Pines,
and in areas north of Young and near broad Tree Saddle,
elevations generally sit in the mid thousands of feet, placing
them in the foothill and lower mountain country.
Speaker 2: The PUZI there.
Speaker 3: So, I've heard a lot of geographical geological terms, but
I don't think I've ever heard escarpment.
Speaker 1: Have you heard that before? I have, but I don't
know what it is, so I was just curious.
Speaker 3: So for all of you listening, it's a long steep slope,
especially one at the ridge of a plateau or separating
areas of land at different heights. So that's an escarpment. Okay,
I thought I wrote it. I like spelled it wrong
because I've probably heard the word. I've heard it before.
But so that's an escarpment. I just assume what things
are and move on. So this terrain is a complex
patchwork of features. Broad valleys and basins giving way to
steep ridgelines, deep insize drainages, rocky slopes, and uneven ground.
There are a few formal trails in the deeper back country,
and those that do exist often climb rapidly in elevation
or traverse uneven ground. Vegetation varies from desert scrub and
cacti on the lower slopes to juniper, oak and mixed
woodlands at higher elevations, meaning footing can change abruptly from
loose rock and gravel to dense brush. Because of the
rugged topography, it's easy for someone traveling off established roads
or trails to descend into deep canyons or ascend steep
ridges without ever being seen from a distance, especially in
areas that are not highly trafficked. Even experienced hikers can
find navigation challenging when landscape features block and line a site,
and subtle drainage systems can funnel travel in unintended directions.
This overall pattern, dramatic elevation change, dense and varied vegetation,
and terrain that complicates line of site is common throughout
the forest and especially in the remote interior sections. These
qualities make the forest breath taking the scenic, but also
hard to search comprehensively without localized logistic support.
Speaker 1: So very rugged and Joel gets some pictures of the
place someday, a whole bunch of ridges and nothing. Yeah,
I mean it looks really cool.
Speaker 3: Again another area that I'd love to hike someday, but
not today.
Speaker 2: Not today.
Speaker 1: Some of the animals you are encounter black bear, mountain lion, elk, coyotes, bobcats, rattlesnake, scorpion,
and spiders, including the black widow that would end up
getting me. I think something like a slider. Would you
would get pit by the black widow? Yeah? So, as
we said, some of the hazards Paul would have faced
in the forest cold night ten temperatures, so even mild
daytime conditions can drop it in the twenties at night.
Hypothermia becomes a serious risk once moving stops due to injury, fatigue,
or navigation issues. As we said, rapid weather changes winter
storms can come in quickly bringing rain, sleet, snow. Sudden
weather shifts reduce visibility and can erase tracks or landmarks.
Large day night temperature swings, so big diurnal swings taxi
body and increased dehydration, cold stress, especially if clothing or
shelter isn't adequate.
Speaker 2: Wind exposure on the ridge lines.
Speaker 1: Wind dramatically accelerates the heat loss, as we said, and
it just like burns your skin. Yeah, when you're hiking
a mountain, the winds hitting in the face, it's the
absolute worst.
Speaker 2: It is steep and rugged.
Speaker 1: Terrain as we talked about, the deep drainages and canyons,
limited and unclear trails, navigational challenges, all of the things
that could go wrong really would.
Speaker 2: Go wrong if you don't know what you're doing out there.
Speaker 1: And then on top of it, because it's winter, you
have fewer daylight hours, so limiting the time of travel
and chance of being caught overnight without shelter. And then
all this leads into well, the dry winter air masks thirst,
but dehydration accelerates fatigue, poor decision making, cold injury, and
all of it leads to delayed rescue potential. So remote access,
limited road roads, vast search areas means even prompt star
responses may not reach an injured to hiker in time.
Plus this is like sounding very similar to the like
the Paul Miller. Yeah, he went missing, and remember he
wasn't far off the trail, and it took him a
really long It took what over a year to find you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was.
Speaker 3: His remains were found not that far from the main
trail that he was hiking, and they searched for a while.
Speaker 1: It took all those images and all the processing just
to find it. So, I mean, when you're in these areas,
it's really like finding a needle in a stack of needles.
So how about you tell us about Paul Victor Tomasso
and I'll pull up some images and stuff.
Speaker 3: All right, So, like Joe said, the subject of tonight's
case is Paul Victor Tomaso. We don't have a date
of an actual date of birth. He went missing on
February thirteenth of twenty fourteen, at twenty twenty four in
here that is, it's.
Speaker 1: Like New Year and after the break, I'm having a
rough time myself. Yeah, we're just we're getting back into
those swing of things things wild eyed wild New Year's Eve.
Speaker 3: No. I didn't gender. Was male, age fifty six. His
height was five foot ten, one hundred and sixty five pounds,
brown hair, green eyes. Clothing, he was last seen in, Oh, hey,
that's our website. I know, right like that, that's our
old website. We have a new website. That's okay, So
I gotta consolidate, probably confuse people.
Speaker 2: So clothing.
Speaker 3: He was last seen in beige cargo pants, dark long
sleeve shirt, dark fest He often wore sunglasses and reportedly
had a custom necklace for his glasses. Personality so he
was described by his family as independent and capable. He
was comfortable traveling alone and did not appear reckless. There
were no public statements that I could find that suggested
he was impulsive or in any kind of distress or
any unusual behavior prior to his trip occupation. We don't
know a ton about his personal life. We know he
enjoyed hiking and spending time outdoors. He had a very
keen interest in exploring remote areas, and he did have
interest in historical and archaeological sites, including Native American ruins,
so that might have been one of the reasons why
he was out in this forest experience in the wilderness.
Everything I read, Paul was described as a very experienced
outdoorsman and backpacker. Family stated he was capable of hiking
long distances and was familiar with remote backcountry travel, though
he was not experienced from what I could tell, in
this specific area and more importantly the board Tree Saddle area.
And you know, his willingness to undertake a solo multi
day trip suggests his confidence in navigating this kind of train.
So he was from all accounts very experienced, but maybe
not so much in this area. And based on Joe's
description of the train, it seems like a very hard
place to hike, especially if you're a newbie. I wouldn't
want to send someone out there on their first back
country hike. Probably not the park for us to do
it in. Yeah, all around, he seemed like a pretty capable,
capable hiker and sorry, I was just trying to pull
something up here. So the timeline starts Thursday, February thirteenth
of twenty fourteen. It's this The time period will be
morning to early afternoon. For those of you watching on
YouTube or just listening. Joe has Google maps of the area,
and it is rugged.
Speaker 1: Is rugged, and there's a bunch of a whole bunch
of nothing, whole bunch of nothing.
Speaker 3: But off in the distance, you got Phoenix. So which
way is Phoenix? So there was young We're looking around.
Speaker 2: Well they did say it was north. It's this is
northeast of Phoenix. Northeast.
Speaker 1: Okay, so if I listen to the southwest, Phoenix is
somewhere that way.
Speaker 2: Okay. Ish, some are ish You think it would pop.
Speaker 3: Up, you would think, Well, what we're trying to describe
here is it's very very rugged.
Speaker 2: Okay, there's Phoenix. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's kind of if you're in the forest, it's
kind of obscured by mountains.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is like when I remember flying over this, I
look down and like, who lives there?
Speaker 2: No one? No what? No one?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well apparently some people do, and then they hike
around here. I mean I would hike there if I
lived in Phoenix. Yeah, it looks would it looks something
right up our alley. Yeah, I'll start pump up some
images while you keep talking.
Speaker 2: Like I said.
Speaker 3: February thirteenth, twenty fourteen, Paul was traveling through northern Arizona
that and he stopped at a Circle K convenience store
along Highway to sixty in Herber, Arizona. This stop would
later become the last known confirmed in person citing of him.
After leaving Herber, Paul continued driving southeast. At the time,
no one was aware that this would be the final
known stretch of his journey. It's now the same day,
so Thursday, February thirteenth of twenty fourteen. It's late afternoon.
So sometime after departing Herber, Paul drove towards the community
of Young, Arizona. He parked his vehicle off Highway to
eighty eight, which is near the boundary of Tonto National Forest.
At the time, again, there was no immediate indication anything
was wrong. Paul did not alert authorities or family members
of any issues, and there was no distress signals reported.
So as far as we know, everything was going a okay.
It's now. The time period is February fourteenth to February
eighteenth of twenty four, twenty fourteen, so for several days
after the thirteenth, Paul was presumed to be on a
routine trip. No one reported in missing during this period
and no one suspected any reason for concern, but unknown
to others at the time, Paul did not access services,
stores or roadways after parking his vehicle. There was also
no phone activity or verified sightings during these days, so
he's gone off the grid at this point. From February
nineteenth to February twenty fourth of twenty fourteen, so several
days have passed now, and family members began to grow
concerned when Paul didn't return as expected. Attempts to account
for his whereabouts were unsuccessful, though at this stage no
formal report had been filed yet, and weather conditions at
this time in the region, So it's mid February. Like
we said, cold nighttime temperatures and the rugged backcountry conditions
could pose challenges to a solo hiker. So it's Tuesday,
February twenty fifth of twenty fourteen. This would be the
actual day that he was reported missing. He was formally
reported overdue and missing to the Hila County Sheriff's Office
by his brother. Deputies responded to the area near Young, Arizona,
where Paul's vehicle was located off a highway to eighty eight.
During their initial response, investigators discovered obviously his parked vehicle.
Inside or near the vehicle, authorities located a handwritten note
stating Paul planned to embark on a hiking trip lasting
approximately four to five days beginning on the thirteenth. The
note referenced the board Tree Saddle area within the Tonto
National Force, so four or five days, that would be
the thirteenth, so thirteenth, fourteenth, fifteen, sixteenth, seventeenth at the latest,
or seventeenth eighteenth, depending on which day. So he was
reported missing on the twenty fifth, so he should have
been out of there by the seventeenth or eighteenth. That's
a pretty big time window of time in between when
he was supposed to be out of there and when
he was reported missing. So that is never never good
in cases like this, and unfortunately too, Paul's cell phone
was found inside the vehicle, which indicated he had left
it behind intentionally. So we were just talking in a
recent case where there's technology. I don't know if they
had this in twenty fourteen, but there's technology search and
rescue can use where they basically set up a temporary
cell tower in one of the search helicopters and they
can fly that through the area where the person's missing
and potentially ping their cell phone and get their coordinates.
So that all relies on you taking your phone with you. Yeah,
which I would highly advise anyone hiking in the back
country to bring your phone, even if you don't think there'll.
Speaker 2: Be some shut it off, leave it off, and then
you can turn it on if you need it.
Speaker 3: Exactly so, it's still Tuesday, February twenty fifth, of twenty fourteen.
So on the stay to Hila County Sheriff's Office, sergeants
and a Tanto Rim search and rescue tracker conducted an
initial ground assessment around the vehicle. Searchers attempted to locate footprints,
disturbed vegetation, or other signs that could establish a direction
of travel into the forest. Despite careful examination, no clear
trail or definitive route could be determined. And this is
not too unsurprising since he hadn't been at that vehicle
now for thirteenth, it's the twenty fifth, you know a while. Yeah,
this is the road so, yeah, it's a dirt road,
very rugged. Yeah, I mean it's not dense though.
Speaker 1: This is what always like baffles me in these types
of cases, Like it's not like there's a ton of
brush where he could be hiding in. No, but it's
possible he's in the brush hiding from the heat if
there's like an injury or something. So yeah, I won't
get into theories just yet. But that's a big, long
dirt road. Yeah, any somewhere on this road and there's
a whole lot of nothing. Where is the board tree
saddle area it is?
Speaker 2: I was just like right in that area, okay. Yeah,
I was picking spots like here's a board tree, settle tank.
I don't know what that means, thinking like water, but yeah,
I mean this is ok. That's more dense, it a
little more thick.
Speaker 3: And this isn't you know, I don't picture this when
I think of Arizona.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me, neither.
Speaker 1: I'll go I'm going to go right to where Google
says it is. Okay, so we'll just work off of
that area. So he just pulled his car off on
the side and left the note sounds like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just park right here and like, hey, don't
tell me now what timing? So this picture was taken
in September. September twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Do they have any Are you able to see pictures
from a different time?
Speaker 1: So usually I can on all trails. Yeah, sometimes you
can go back in time on these things, you know. Yeah,
it's not on the images per se, it's on the
satellite imagery.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: And then normally i'd go to all trails and just
look back at reviews as long as the app is
around when it happened.
Speaker 2: And there's no hiking trails in this area. Yeah, it's
I mean that country.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like very few hiking trails, none of them
are near this area. Yeah, so so you got I
got nothing.
Speaker 2: Wonder what he was doing?
Speaker 3: Was he just because in national forests pretty typically you
could just park your car and go hike, like straight
off and just go in.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's like he just likes solitude.
Speaker 3: And are the archaeological areas around here that he might
have tried to hike too?
Speaker 2: So there's petroglyphs, but they are nowhere near where he was,
so there's no really points of interest. You know, Let's
see where's so this is?
Speaker 1: Jeez, he was highway to eighty eight to eighty eight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's to eighty eight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's just not it's not even showing up on
to eighty eight or one to eighty eight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not even showing up on here. Hold on, jeez,
I'm bad at this. It's different key strokes. Well, while
you're looking at that, I'll keep going on the timeline.
Speaker 2: So I finally where the heck this is?
Speaker 3: Later in the day, on Tuesday, the twenty fifth of
February and twenty fourteen, the coordinated search effort was launched.
Approximately twenty one searchers were deployed, including members of the
HeLa County Sheriffs, Mounted Posse, and Tonto RIM Search and
Rescue teams. Searched on foot by ATV, jeep and horseback,
covering large areas of train surrounding the vehicle location. A
Department of Public Safety Ranger helicopter was deployed during daylight
hours to conduct aerial reconnaissance. After nightfall, the helicopter returned
to search for signs of light fire or movement that
could indicate Paul's presence. Sadly, no physical evidence or confirmed
clues were located on the first day, so from February
twenty six to early March of twenty fourteen, the search
operations continued for several days. I think it was about
eleven days logged and estimated one hundred and eighty five
combined man days. Volunteer and professional teams conducted repeated ground searches.
Canine units were deployed on multiple occasions to attempt sent tracking.
The DPS Ranger helicopter flights were conducted on several days.
Search areas were expanded to include remote drainages, ridge lines,
and terrain consistent with Paul's known interests, including locations near
archaeological features. Despite the scale of the operation, no clothing, gear, tracks,
campsite or biological evidence attributable to Paul was ever discovered,
and by Monday, March third of twenty fourteen, the search
effort was still active. Reports from a local outdoor community
unicated that teams were continuing to search, though the lack
of leads was becoming increasingly concerning. By mid March, after
nearly two weeks of active searching without success, the organized
search operations were suspended. Authorities can included that further searching
without new information was unlikely to produce any results. Sadly,
and this is I say it every time this happens.
At some point you just can't keep searching forever. And
with this case, they got to a late start. It
wasn't it because of the search and rescue teams. Was
just because he wasn't reported missing for quite a while
after he was supposed to be out of the forest.
So that really doesn't help things. And to this day,
Paul has never been located. There's been no definitive evidence
explaining his disappearance, and no remains have been recovered, and
his case remains open and unsolved. So what are the
likely theories in this case? Well, the first likely theory
is accidental injury followed by exposure. You could have probably
guessed that one. So Paul entered an extremely rugged, remote
area in mid February. A fall, a misstep or injury
into one of the steep drainages or one of the
rocky slopes or forested areas could have immobilized quickly. Once injured,
even a survivable fall can become fatal in the cold
overnight temperatures, especially without a phone or any immediate rescue access.
If he was unable to move far from where he fell,
his remains could still be hidden by terrain, vegetation, or
natural decomposition. And this theory fits the best because he
was a solo hiker in a remote terrain this time
of year, it's cold in this area, which increases exposure risk.
He left his phone in his vehicle, so he has
no communicative communication device with him, So our efforts often
miss victims in steep and brush heavy terrain. This is
not due to the lack of trying. It's just a
product of the location. It's just from some of the
pictures we're looking at, this is incredibly rugged and they
only had you know, they had a team out there,
but twenty one people. Yeah, that's that's not a lot
of people to cover a huge amount of terrain. And
with this case, we really don't know where he went.
There were no like Joe said, there was no trails
in the area where his car was found. So the
assumption is either he hiked kept hiking down that road,
or he went like backcountry and just went into the woods.
Searchers really don't have any clue which way he went,
and because there was such a time lamps between when
he first got there and when they started the search,
any evidence of where he might have gone which direction
is probably weathered over at this point.
Speaker 1: And as I saw this, one looks like it's a
trail that's near where he was off the road. It's
called like the Hell's Whole trail. The earliest one I
found was March twenty, twenty fifteen. Okay, so not close enough.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: So this first theory is obviously for most of our
case is one of the most common outcomes, and when
there's no evidence of foul play and no really evidence
of anything, this is the theory that a lot of
people come up with. The second most likely theory in it,
you could kind of group it into with the first
theory is a navigation area leading to deep backcountry exposure,
so Paul may have unintentionally traveled for farther or in
a different direction than planned. In areas like this, forest drainages,
like Joe said, can funnel hikers into increasingly remote terrain
with very limited escape routes. We covered a case a
while back about a gentleman who went hiking in the
Grand canyon like, not on trail. He went off trail
and he started going down some of the canyons and
he got stuck and he couldn't go any further and
he didn't have a rope to go back up, and
he was just stuck on the canyon ledge shews like
a dried up waterfall. Yeah, they called it what they
called there's a term that.
Speaker 1: I'll look it up because I know you're talking. That's
what I was trying to think of it too. Yeah,
spillway or something.
Speaker 2: It's something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But essentially what happens and why the Park Service
does not like it when people go off trail in
certain areas like Grand Canyon is because if you don't
have any climbing here with you. He went down into
those cantyon and got stuck on this canyon ledgen and
just couldn't get out, and he ended up passing away
on that ledge and I can't imagine. I remember he
actually wrote a letter to his family on his phone
and he was kind of at peace with it. Towards
the end, he was kind of like, this is how
it's going to go. But he was cracking jokes, but
the same kind of thing could have happened to Paul
in this location with how the terrain can funnel you
into an area, and he might have not have been able.
Speaker 1: To get back out.
Speaker 3: A navigation era could have led him into dense veg vegetation,
deep canyons, long exhausting travel days, and limited water availability.
Speaker 2: A kholie yeah, cou ee.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a steep sided, often dry valley or gully
carved by water. Okay, So yeah, you can get stuck
in one of those, and your energy gets depleted, your
decision making degrades rapidly, which increases the likelihood of collapse
or fatal exposure.
Speaker 2: And this fits with this case.
Speaker 3: Because he had no confirmed route plan beyond the general area.
Vehicle location did not clearly indicate a trailhead, so searchers
could not establish a direction of travel, and SAR coverage
cannot guarantee a full drainage or canyon coverage.
Speaker 2: There's just not enough people.
Speaker 3: Twenty one people's not enough to cover this full area.
You would have to have hundreds out there to properly
search every nook and cranny of this area, and even
then you probably won't find anything. Another likely theory would
be a medical emergency while hiking, Paul could have suffered
a sudden medical event such as a cardiac event, a stroke,
maybe some undiagnosed condition that was exacerbated by exertion heat,
And obviously, if any of that occurred this deep into
the back country, there would be little chance of any
way of getting out of there. Yeah, your toast, your toast. Unfortunately,
and this kind of fits with this case. Age obviously
increases the baseline risk for sudden medical emergency, and solo
hiking eliminates any kind of immediate aid, and medical events
would leave little environmental evidence other than stumbling upon the remains.
You're not going to know a half a mile away
that someone had a heart attack. A few theories that
are possible but less likely animal encounter. Joe covered the
animals that are in this area. There's black bears, but
they're probably not going to bug him. There's scorpions, there's spiders,
black widow spider, but there's not like grizzlies or anything
that could cause a problem for Paul. And another theory
was he became lost intentionally. That kind of goes with
an intentional disappearance, and from everything I read, there was
no indication he was. He had that kind of mindset.
There was no events that happened that led him here,
like the case Brian Skolinski, the guy we covered a
few cases ago where he got lost in Great sand
Dunes twice. He was at Great Sand Dunes because he
had a midlife crisis and he was like going out
there to I don't know, confront his demons or something.
There's no indication Paul was doing that. Paul just liked challenging, remote,
deep back country hiking and he found it at Tanto.
And then the final theory that always is a possibility,
but probably very not very likely. Here is foul play
just based on the just remoteness of this area. Probably
not very likely to come across someone that's going to
murder you this deep into a place this rugged, So
it's always a possibility, but there was no indication of
any struggle. They didn't find blood or his phone was
still in his car, so someone it's gonna maybe rob
you would have taken the stuff out of his car. Yeah,
that his car was undisturbed, So probably not fall play.
If I had to put my money on what happened
to him, I think it's a combination of one and two.
I think I think he had a navigation air that
led him deeper into the back country, probably out of
the search area, and then he suffered some kind of injury.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was planning to be out there four days, so
if it happened later, he'd be really far away and
dey dressed. Dehydration can stress the heart. His age, we
don't know his medical background, but you're at risk. Yeah,
And I think I might be a little too. Thinking
of the Paul Miller case. He has a determined that
that's basically what the cause was. I could imagine you're
out in the desert, stressing the heart, dehydrated, potentially hiking. Yeah,
I'm kind of with you. A medical event of some sort,
not necessarily an injury. Yeah, just because of how flat
it is, you can roll your ankle, I guess. But
I mean there's some rugged areas too. I mean you
could have tried.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just I think of like myself at forty, I
don't take huge risks anymore. By the time of fifty six,
I'm not going to be doing crazy hiking unless I'm.
Speaker 2: Doing it regularly.
Speaker 3: You're gonna be like paved the trail with your sandals. No, No,
I'll still dress appropriately.
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to be doing like the kind
of stuff we've done floods and zion and.
Speaker 3: Your Mocha frappuccino and your sandal, your sandals and Tommy
bahamasher I have like my robot carrying my backpack, are
carrying me robot dog, my robot dog carrying my backpack,
and the robot carrying me like cradling me.
Speaker 1: That would be kind of cool, like the Boston Dynamics,
the Boston Dynamics about dog just carries your gear and
then you can just have fun hiking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could do twice the distance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then it can protect you, yeah or turn
all right, that's more likely we're gonna have a lot
of robot deaths to cover when we have this show
in twenty years. Yeah, I think, Yeah, I think maybe
navigation era or exposure this time of year. Go back
to the map. I'm just curious, what's the closest water
that you can see from here? I didn't is there
any kind of sometimes maybe go back to just the
map view for a second.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to rotate. There we go, geez, there we go.
The buttons don't.
Speaker 3: Work, So okay, we've got let's go to map map view.
That looks like a drainage way over there, Salt River,
and that's it. There is not a lot of water
where he was parked.
Speaker 2: I see.
Speaker 1: Besides that, I gotta go to satellite just as if
there's gets just this and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just that.
Speaker 3: Now in February there could be snow and higher elevations,
so you could get water that way. But I would
imagine this time of year, little creeks and streams are
going to be pretty dry because nothing, you know, stuff
hasn't started melting yet. And you look at the train,
it just looks dry. Yeah, September is that's a drier
time of the year. But I think you're right, he
probably got dehydrated if you got lost, and then if
he was out there longer than he planned, he probably
easily ran out of water. I don't see a lot
of natural flowing water in this area.
Speaker 2: No, there's a yeah, there's no water. This is a
little bit ways away.
Speaker 3: But now that doesn't mean the park the Forest Service
doesn't have areas where there's maybe natural springs that you
can fill up on. Maybe that's present here. Well, I
don't see any. Yeah, we don't see any in our
limited I mean that's possible, but yeah, I think, you know,
navigational air. Maybe he got lost, ran out of water, dehydration,
set in exposure. Because it's February, it's cold at night.
We don't know outside of kind of the basic clothing
he was wearing, we don't know the kind of gear
he had. I'm assuming based on his experience level that
he would have had the proper gear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think he was packed inappropriately.
Speaker 1: No, and that is based off of hunch, like no
data other than what we know about the case.
Speaker 3: But if he's like an experienced, like deep backcountry hiker
that loves doing this, he's not going to come out
here then unprepared.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't make stupid decisions, or you don't try to.
You can make mistakes, because everyone can. But yeah, that's
what I don't you know how you like after doing
these you just get a feeling about people. I feel
like you probably did everything right, it's just something completely
out of control that just and it's it's I you know,
people can make fun of me. I don't like solo
hiking for that reason. Yeah, stuff can go wrong stuff, Yeah,
out of your control, and it's good to have somebody
there that can back you up as if possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just thinking back when I was hiking in
the Canadian Rockies with when Ben. He had a knife
sheath on a belt and he sat down.
Speaker 2: Yeah what if he's by himself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the knife went through the sheath and put
like a four inch gash in the back of his thigh.
Speaker 2: Yeah what if it hid an artery and he's buy himself.
Speaker 3: Well, and it was, I mean, it bled like crazy,
and luckily we were there and we put pressure on it,
put pressure on it, we feel dressed it and then
we got to stop bleeding. But you can just imagine
that is just like a random accident. He was just
taking a break, sat down and his knife cut the
back of his leg open. Yeah, that could have you
know that you could bleed out.
Speaker 1: If you're alone and can't get pressure on it because
of where it's cut.
Speaker 2: Things like that like something, or.
Speaker 3: You just panic a little because you see all this blood.
Anything can happen like that. So that's why I've never
liked solo hiking. I know people do it all the
time and nothing happens. Yeah, that's fine. Yep, you got
nothing against it except I think it's just except for me.
And you know, I say that because we live in Wisconsin.
If I lived in Colorado or somewhere where there was
lots of national parks, I would so probably get.
Speaker 2: More comfortable with it. Yeah, and I'd just be fine. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's just two yocals from the Midwest talking.
I think this one, while we don't have really any
evidence of what happens to him, I think it's pretty
cut and dry, sadly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you on that one, that's for sure. Yeah.
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do it too. You gotta have it focused though, come on,
you're bad at this and come on, Mike figure it out. Lastly,
when enjoying the beauty of nature, whether backpacking, camping, or
simply taking a walk, always remember to leave no trace.
Speaker 2: Thanks and we will see you all next time.