Speaker 1: Hill. Are we one. Welcome back to the nonprofits. So
Speaker 1: here's some real twenty twenty five energy for you. A
Speaker 1: high school in Georgia, I just canceled The Crucible, you
Speaker 1: know that play literally written as a warning against religious
Speaker 1: hysteria and moral panic, because a few parents claimed it
Speaker 1: was demonic, the irony practically biblical. This isn't just a
Speaker 1: cancel performance. It's a symptom of a deeper rot where
Speaker 1: fear driven censorship is dressed up as protecting the children.
Speaker 1: If the Crucible is too dangerous for teenagers, we're not
Speaker 1: far from calling the Handmaids Tale and instruction manual. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about what this means, not just for students, but
Speaker 1: for the baolground of public education and how we push back.
Speaker 1: This story is from The Friendly Atheist by him and
Speaker 1: Metta on May twenty six, twenty twenty five. Okay, I
Speaker 1: got opinions before I go into such a pinny. It's
Speaker 1: about how done this is. I was in a high
Speaker 1: school production of The Principle. By the way, I was
Speaker 1: Sarah Good in our high school production. So I've been
Speaker 1: in display and since I grew up so close to
Speaker 1: stay On, Massachusetts, we went to Nathano Hawthorne's home. So
Speaker 1: this felt this story felt a little personal to me, especially,
Speaker 1: you know, growing up in New England and this having
Speaker 1: such historical, historical, I almost say, hysterical historical relevance. So Tracy,
Speaker 1: I kind of want to start with you, it was
Speaker 1: your kind of feeling when you read this article, and
Speaker 1: what was your takeaway from how stupid this is?
Speaker 2: Well, my takeaway is primarily I just feel bad for
Speaker 2: the kids. I mean, I'm I'm I'm terribly impressed. I
Speaker 2: didn't even get to see the show. Of course, I
Speaker 2: didn't get to see the show, but I'm probably impressed
Speaker 2: because it mentions in the article and in a few others.
Speaker 2: I think I looked up one or two other things
Speaker 2: on this where their director for the show was removed
Speaker 2: from school employ like two weeks prior to the show
Speaker 2: actually being put on. And I was a theater kid
Speaker 2: back in high school as well. I remember those days,
Speaker 2: and we at my school called the week running up
Speaker 2: to opening night. We called that hell week just from
Speaker 2: how much work we'd have to do to get all
Speaker 2: the lighting cues and everything. You have to really iron
Speaker 2: everything out in that time. And I'm terribly impressed they
Speaker 2: were able to put something together that they're apparently proud of,
Speaker 2: and I'm very sad for them that because apparently not
Speaker 2: an administrator and probably not one of the.
Speaker 3: Kids who's in the show's.
Speaker 2: Parent is so upset about this that they have to
Speaker 2: ruin it for all of those kids. Of course, like
Speaker 2: like that, that's my takeaway. It's it's it's the entitlement.
Speaker 2: I'm always yapping about that people want things to be
Speaker 2: exactly according to their own sensibilities and not and not
Speaker 2: allow for any other expression.
Speaker 1: So I kind of you mentioned that, you know, you're
Speaker 1: a theater kid, like, like, I can't imagine the impact
Speaker 1: this would have, like last minute to do to put
Speaker 1: this play on without your director, without your producer, and
Speaker 1: the kids had to step up and have you do.
Speaker 2: The director was doing work man like. That's that's all
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely press. So, you know, shout out to
Speaker 1: the kids for getting this done because that uh and
Speaker 1: having to step up and doing the thing that they
Speaker 1: needed to do. So I'm a little concerned that a
Speaker 1: few parents complain because apparently they didn't read the play.
Speaker 1: They just heard that it was about you know, kids
Speaker 1: getting possessed by the devil, and they you know, you know,
Speaker 1: started pearl clutching and worrying about something that didn't they
Speaker 1: didn't have to worry about if they actually read the
Speaker 1: context of the play. But that being said, we know
Speaker 1: that's kind of messed up. Jason, What like when people
Speaker 1: are like, when we have these kinde of like moral
Speaker 1: panics like canceling the Crucible, do you think it's really
Speaker 1: about protecting the children or do you think it's more
Speaker 1: about you know, people showing their true colors and what
Speaker 1: kind of narcissists they are?
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, yeah, you know, you hear that word narcissism
Speaker 4: thrown around, but when when I when I hear the
Speaker 4: term narcissism, it's it's very clinical. And the thing that
Speaker 4: I've won about narcissists is that they despise truth. So okay,
Speaker 4: so if you tell someone about if you let's say,
Speaker 4: let's say Tracy's a narcissist, and I'm like, hey, Helen,
Speaker 4: Tracy did some shit, you know, and it was really
Speaker 4: messed up. But it's true. What Tracy's pissed about isn't
Speaker 4: anything other than the fact that you know about their
Speaker 4: stuff that they try to keep secret. So if you
Speaker 4: tell someone about their actual actions, their actual thoughts, their
Speaker 4: their motivations, they have meltdowns because you know that facid
Speaker 4: it gets exposed, you know. So I'm convinced that this
Speaker 4: is like a strong example of that they were able
Speaker 4: to harness like the fears of idiots to push like
Speaker 4: an unethical agenda that's based around lies and gas lighting
Speaker 4: and triangulation. And that's what a narcissist does. I mean
Speaker 4: this play like you, like you said in the intro,
Speaker 4: the purpose of this place to highlight multiple issues that
Speaker 4: all like congregate around one thing, and that's the misuse
Speaker 4: of authority and authoritarian power with religious undertones. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I would understand why that would make some people's cognitive
Speaker 4: this and then's maybe spike a little bit, and then
Speaker 4: they have to soothe it by being a bunch of
Speaker 4: effing liars. I mean, it's gross. And then the way
Speaker 4: they I was a tech guy, we did little shop
Speaker 4: whrres and I mean we like theater was the only
Speaker 4: thing in the high school that anybody heard about. The
Speaker 4: high Scholl went to was rough, and so our theater
Speaker 4: crew we ran the school and we had this huge
Speaker 4: auditorium it was crazy and I've deteched. We did a
Speaker 4: little shop of hores. We had a full like a
Speaker 4: full giant plant, and I mean it was amazing. We
Speaker 4: did Dracula, we did everything. So I get it. It's
Speaker 4: a ton of work. And if miss Pettitt hadn't been
Speaker 4: there the whole time it had dropped out, that would
Speaker 4: have been insane. You know, We've had people drop out
Speaker 4: and it's insane. So these kids, look, this is good
Speaker 4: because bad press is the best press. These kids are
Speaker 4: getting attention now. I mean thousands of people who watch
Speaker 4: these shows. So now we're talking about these kids performance.
Speaker 4: Hopefully this this does something for them. Anybody watching this,
Speaker 4: you know, maybe you know, if you want to reach
Speaker 4: out and donate.
Speaker 3: Some love to some kids, you know, there you go.
Speaker 1: I think also too, like and I know that I
Speaker 1: brought the Hammadsdale because this is the thing about what's
Speaker 1: going on is that this is like it's the same
Speaker 1: like like I have to imagine that Arthur Mary Miller
Speaker 1: is just like rolling over in his grave, you know,
Speaker 1: to cancel this play, which is all about you know,
Speaker 1: moral panic and you know, letting to be swept up
Speaker 1: in hysteria and the harm that comes from that, you know,
Speaker 1: because that's why Alvin during the Salem witch trials and
Speaker 1: people died for no reason other than moral panic. So
Speaker 1: if we're and I like and I can you can
Speaker 1: feel it in you know, in the zeitgeist. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing that why this play because it's been performed
Speaker 1: in high schools for a few decades now and read
Speaker 1: and studied because it's about authoritarian control, not you know,
Speaker 1: not thinking critically and being swept up into hysteria, which
Speaker 1: kids need to know about. That's how. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that parents are concerned has more to say about
Speaker 1: the fact moral leans on the side of like the
Speaker 1: book burnings that it has to lead to, like you know,
Speaker 1: moral panic and warrying about you know, the safety of
Speaker 1: the children. I mean, like the kids were performing the play,
Speaker 1: they knew what they were reading, you know. Hello. So Tracy, Yes,
Speaker 1: if you if you were going to push back against
Speaker 1: mentioned and titled parents and that override educators and the students.
Speaker 1: But the students would you know they were trying to
Speaker 1: silence their voice. What would you do as far as
Speaker 1: your pushback if you had the power to so, yeah.
Speaker 2: Would that I were an administrator be that you know,
Speaker 2: a principle or what you call it, a superintendent or
Speaker 2: something to that effect. I don't I don't really see
Speaker 2: the need to eat even do anything like like like
Speaker 2: that's that That's what I'm running into here, Like I
Speaker 2: really feel like if this was a decision from the
Speaker 2: principal side of things, the principle could have easily just
Speaker 2: done nothing and everything would have been okay. I don't
Speaker 2: even really see. And I think the pushback you need
Speaker 2: to do is to just ignore them whoever whoever's complaining,
Speaker 2: if you have the authority to do so, because at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, this is a show put
Speaker 2: on by the school. If let's take it to an analogy,
Speaker 2: if the if the high school football team is running
Speaker 2: plays that where I don't know how many people are
Speaker 2: on a football team, but you, uh, but they aren't
Speaker 2: very good. No amount of tea like like, what's the
Speaker 2: amount of parents coming to you and complaining about this
Speaker 2: as an administrator, what amount of parents is going to
Speaker 2: get you to go actually go talk to your u
Speaker 2: to pull your football team out of the season. No,
Speaker 2: the kids are having fun. They're there to learn about
Speaker 2: playing sports. They're not there to actually I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: different schools have different goals, but like, the kids aren't
Speaker 2: putting on a show to express a certain political agenda.
Speaker 2: They're putting on a show to express their creativity and
Speaker 2: to learn about the process of the arts. If you
Speaker 2: don't want your kid participating in it, that's fine, pull
Speaker 2: your kid out. If you don't want to see the show,
Speaker 2: that's fine, don't go see it. Where this whole the
Speaker 2: school is not going to live or die based off
Speaker 2: of whether or not little Jimmy who's in the chorus,
Speaker 2: or your family comes and buys tickets to the show.
Speaker 2: I think this is something that could have just been ignored.
Speaker 2: Then again, I don't know the extent of the complaints.
Speaker 2: Maybe this came directly from George's house representatives, who knows.
Speaker 2: We don't have much information, but I think that's a
Speaker 2: little outside of the realm of reality. I think this
Speaker 2: was either some parents whose kids were in the show
Speaker 2: and weren't very attentive about it and didn't want to
Speaker 2: simply pull out their own child from the production. They
Speaker 2: wanted to ruin it for everyone else, or it's just
Speaker 2: you know, ancillary, unrelated parents who decided to whine and complain,
Speaker 2: maybe not even parents, maybe just random people. We I
Speaker 2: ultimately don't know who lodged these complaints, but it seems
Speaker 2: like a thing that could have easily been ignored well, and.
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, what is concerning about this
Speaker 1: is that if let's just say it's a handful of parents,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't, like we said, we don't know
Speaker 1: the extent, but like, you know, let's just say that
Speaker 1: it was and they had a particular problem with the
Speaker 1: opening scene and they just made a big like hooplah
Speaker 1: about it. And the fact that the administrators considered folding
Speaker 1: that is a lot. And I don't know if the
Speaker 1: particular parents had any sort of like state in influence
Speaker 1: maybe would affect funding. You know, we don't know because
Speaker 1: if because if it's was when those things they be ignored,
Speaker 1: where someone was just like belly aching, then you can
Speaker 1: be like, well don't come, you know, you don't have
Speaker 1: like the kids decide to participate. It could be that,
Speaker 1: you know, if the if the threat was you know,
Speaker 1: actual going to cause actual long term you know, harm,
Speaker 1: then we're having a different conversation when we don't know.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that I find concerning because you know,
Speaker 1: people complain about crap all the time. It doesn't get canceled.
Speaker 1: People are just like, well, don't participate, that's your choice.
Speaker 1: No I don't. I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think you're right about the safety thing. If there
Speaker 2: was like a real potential for harm here, a demonstrable
Speaker 2: potential for harm, then it would it would be like
Speaker 2: if they were putting on a stage production of Lolita.
Speaker 2: I don't think that would be the best thing for
Speaker 2: those kids to be doing. Maybe we can have them
Speaker 2: put on a different show. But just because of the
Speaker 2: themes in that particular show, I don't think they're necessarily
Speaker 2: appropriate for children to be portraying uh in that particular
Speaker 2: novel and film. But as far as I know, and
Speaker 2: you know you probably you know more about the critcipal
Speaker 2: than I do. You were in a production of it,
Speaker 2: Is there anything like? Are there suggestive theme? Like what's
Speaker 2: the I know it was a dance. It was the
Speaker 2: dance where they were describing the allegations for the witch girls.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, though there's there's an eluded scene
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the play. This oracle mentioned that
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of girls in the woods you know,
Speaker 1: summoning spirits, and it's alluded to that they were summoning
Speaker 1: the devil. But the rest of the play is about
Speaker 1: basically how Salem, Massachusetts did a witch hunt. That is
Speaker 1: the whole point and the criticism, and Arthur Miller used
Speaker 1: real uh court records of the things that were said
Speaker 1: and what happened in court. But the whole point of
Speaker 1: the play is the show moral panic, people believing in
Speaker 1: hysterica and Stuward natural superstitious beliefs. So, Jason, you have
Speaker 1: first hand experience dealing with bullshit from schools. Uh so,
Speaker 1: I'm curious, but you're kind of feeling about this is
Speaker 1: someone that has dealt with bullcraft from schools, getting worried
Speaker 1: about nothing and worrying about the moral decay of the children.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, here's the thing I've had. I've had.
Speaker 4: This bird is cleaning it It's just happy. I'm sorry,
Speaker 4: my bird sitting and it has to clean itself. Forward
Speaker 4: screams with me. It has to be on you and
Speaker 4: fell in love with me. So sorry about that. It's
Speaker 4: just going nuts over here.
Speaker 3: Okay. So one I've had to change schools.
Speaker 4: I've had to pull my kid out of a school
Speaker 4: out of actually out of a school district, and I
Speaker 4: had to find a private school that you know, I've
Speaker 4: definitely put a little a lot of hard work in
Speaker 4: who banged for and whenever certain things arose at that school. Luckily,
Speaker 4: there were people that were willing to have a conversation enough.
Speaker 4: It's interesting. In one occasion, my kiddo there apparently was
Speaker 4: how do I give it not too much? There was
Speaker 4: one kid who expressed some religious beliefs, my kid expressed
Speaker 4: some non religious beliefs. They you know, started having a
Speaker 4: little bit of bickering. So one kid started wearing a
Speaker 4: lot of like very religious shirts, but very blatant. So
Speaker 4: my kid has like shirts that we generally wear, like
Speaker 4: around the house or to go see bands play, and
Speaker 4: you know, like black metal band shirts and short this
Speaker 4: is gay for Satan, just fun, fun shirts, and so
Speaker 4: my kiddo started wearing some of those shirts to school,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh man. So we had some conversations.
Speaker 4: We made some agreements that nobody's allowed to wear any
Speaker 4: blatantly religious stuff. So if my kid's not allowed to,
Speaker 4: nobody else is allowed to. So we came to some
Speaker 4: things I brought up being members of the Satanic Temple,
Speaker 4: which you know, I know people have mixed feelings about
Speaker 4: different branches, but as a whole, they've actually helped you
Speaker 4: with some things, and I really appreciate what they've done.
Speaker 4: And it really opened up some good discussions, and we
Speaker 4: talked about atheism and equal rights, and my kids learned
Speaker 4: how to communicate with people who were willing to communicate
Speaker 4: but had different beliefs and stand up for themselves in
Speaker 4: a safe enough environment. So we've definitely learned a lot
Speaker 4: and are learning a lot right now with some recent
Speaker 4: situations we're going through about how people can target.
Speaker 3: You and how you can present yourself.
Speaker 4: So it's the thing is when you live in a
Speaker 4: place like in Texas and you have let's say, atheistic leanings,
Speaker 4: queer tendencies, children of that in nature haven't forbid anything
Speaker 4: that's gender nonconforming, you're going to have to deal with
Speaker 4: these things in one way or another. And we just
Speaker 4: we refuse really to run. So we're just trying to
Speaker 4: learn how to play it smart. So my partner and
Speaker 4: I and my kid all go to different types of
Speaker 4: counseling and therapy and family sessions, and we work really
Speaker 4: hard together to navigate this world. So my advice would
Speaker 4: be become a really strong family unit and a team,
Speaker 4: and don't be a coward, but fight the right way,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 1: So that's me No, And I think I think that's
Speaker 1: a really really good point because I know it's I
Speaker 1: my kids are you know, I've been out of high
Speaker 1: school for a few years now, they're adults. I've been
Speaker 1: out of high school a while.
Speaker 3: So like seven years, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Only seven seven maybe all these seven multiply that by
Speaker 1: four anyway.
Speaker 5: So that being but being you know, looking back on
Speaker 5: my own experiences and even my kids experiences of like
Speaker 5: these moral panics and things like that, it didn't.
Speaker 1: Happen very much. And now it seems that, you know,
Speaker 1: with book bands and banning a play because it talks
Speaker 1: about solution.
Speaker 3: There was about a twenty years race period.
Speaker 4: There was like from Clinton until about two years after Obama.
Speaker 4: There was a little grace period because I grew up
Speaker 4: in the Satanic panic, and I grew up in a
Speaker 4: church that was very scary and they were convinced demons
Speaker 4: were everywhere and everything was demonic. So I grew up,
Speaker 4: I mean, in that environment. But I'm realizing now that
Speaker 4: was much more insular than it really was, so we're
Speaker 4: we're looking at like a twenty year lag. But I agree,
Speaker 4: it's it's fucking scary now, Like this is scary as
Speaker 4: fuck and it's weird, and I hear people talking about
Speaker 4: it on the job side, which is a no no,
Speaker 4: you know, you don't talk about that shit at work
Speaker 4: or at the bar or at the gym, and now
Speaker 4: people are, and I'm like, that's not good. Even with
Speaker 4: Southern ethics, it's not good. Like your Southern honor ethics
Speaker 4: are being destroyed. I don't know how good those are,
Speaker 4: but at least that was there, at least people would
Speaker 4: shut up, and nobody shuts the fuck up anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, Tracy, I would like to get as a
Speaker 1: former theater kid, I would like to hear your final
Speaker 1: word on this particular story, because it's not great. Unfortunately.
Speaker 2: I think my final word on this story is going
Speaker 2: to be an encouragement to those children that were affected
Speaker 2: by this. Don't allow and it doesn't seem like you are.
Speaker 2: Because I saw a video response sort of like a
Speaker 2: vlog from one of the actors. I watched that on
Speaker 2: the article, and they seem to be you know, soldiering forth,
Speaker 2: especially after losing their director. Those in the arts are
Speaker 2: probably always going to be attacked for their expression of art,
Speaker 2: and just understand that that is one of the side
Speaker 2: effects of being in the arts, and that it isn't
Speaker 2: necessarily a comment on who you are. It's a comment
Speaker 2: on who the people are that are making these attacks. Oh,
Speaker 2: it isn't a comment on you.
Speaker 4: It means what you're doing is awesome, that somebody is
Speaker 4: hating on it and it messes with them.
Speaker 3: What you did was great, keep doing again. That's art.
Speaker 3: Art is there to like stick in your teeth. So yeah,
Speaker 3: kudos to whatever y'all did.
Speaker 1: And I think that is a very good positive note
Speaker 1: to end this on. So if you want to hear
Speaker 1: more of what we have to say, and please find
Speaker 1: a video and like and subscribe, and maybe visit our
Speaker 1: merch shop because we have clothing, so do that as well,
Speaker 1: and we'll see y'all next time.