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<v Speaker 1>Hill. Are we one. Welcome back to the nonprofits. So

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<v Speaker 1>here's some real twenty twenty five energy for you. A

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<v Speaker 1>high school in Georgia, I just canceled The Crucible, you

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<v Speaker 1>know that play literally written as a warning against religious

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<v Speaker 1>hysteria and moral panic, because a few parents claimed it

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<v Speaker 1>was demonic, the irony practically biblical. This isn't just a

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<v Speaker 1>cancel performance. It's a symptom of a deeper rot where

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<v Speaker 1>fear driven censorship is dressed up as protecting the children.

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<v Speaker 1>If the Crucible is too dangerous for teenagers, we're not

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<v Speaker 1>far from calling the Handmaids Tale and instruction manual. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about what this means, not just for students, but

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<v Speaker 1>for the baolground of public education and how we push back.

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<v Speaker 1>This story is from The Friendly Atheist by him and

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<v Speaker 1>Metta on May twenty six, twenty twenty five. Okay, I

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<v Speaker 1>got opinions before I go into such a pinny. It's

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<v Speaker 1>about how done this is. I was in a high

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<v Speaker 1>school production of The Principle. By the way, I was

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah Good in our high school production. So I've been

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<v Speaker 1>in display and since I grew up so close to

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<v Speaker 1>stay On, Massachusetts, we went to Nathano Hawthorne's home. So

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<v Speaker 1>this felt this story felt a little personal to me, especially,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, growing up in New England and this having

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<v Speaker 1>such historical, historical, I almost say, hysterical historical relevance. So Tracy,

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of want to start with you, it was

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<v Speaker 1>your kind of feeling when you read this article, and

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<v Speaker 1>what was your takeaway from how stupid this is?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, my takeaway is primarily I just feel bad for

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<v Speaker 2>the kids. I mean, I'm I'm I'm terribly impressed. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't even get to see the show. Of course, I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't get to see the show, but I'm probably impressed

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<v Speaker 2>because it mentions in the article and in a few others.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I looked up one or two other things

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<v Speaker 2>on this where their director for the show was removed

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<v Speaker 2>from school employ like two weeks prior to the show

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<v Speaker 2>actually being put on. And I was a theater kid

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<v Speaker 2>back in high school as well. I remember those days,

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<v Speaker 2>and we at my school called the week running up

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<v Speaker 2>to opening night. We called that hell week just from

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<v Speaker 2>how much work we'd have to do to get all

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<v Speaker 2>the lighting cues and everything. You have to really iron

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<v Speaker 2>everything out in that time. And I'm terribly impressed they

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<v Speaker 2>were able to put something together that they're apparently proud of,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm very sad for them that because apparently not

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<v Speaker 2>an administrator and probably not one of the.

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<v Speaker 3>Kids who's in the show's.

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<v Speaker 2>Parent is so upset about this that they have to

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<v Speaker 2>ruin it for all of those kids. Of course, like

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<v Speaker 2>like that, that's my takeaway. It's it's it's the entitlement.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm always yapping about that people want things to be

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<v Speaker 2>exactly according to their own sensibilities and not and not

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<v Speaker 2>allow for any other expression.

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<v Speaker 1>So I kind of you mentioned that, you know, you're

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<v Speaker 1>a theater kid, like, like, I can't imagine the impact

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<v Speaker 1>this would have, like last minute to do to put

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<v Speaker 1>this play on without your director, without your producer, and

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<v Speaker 1>the kids had to step up and have you do.

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<v Speaker 2>The director was doing work man like. That's that's all

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<v Speaker 2>for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's definitely press. So, you know, shout out to

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<v Speaker 1>the kids for getting this done because that uh and

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<v Speaker 1>having to step up and doing the thing that they

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<v Speaker 1>needed to do. So I'm a little concerned that a

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<v Speaker 1>few parents complain because apparently they didn't read the play.

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<v Speaker 1>They just heard that it was about you know, kids

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<v Speaker 1>getting possessed by the devil, and they you know, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>started pearl clutching and worrying about something that didn't they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have to worry about if they actually read the

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<v Speaker 1>context of the play. But that being said, we know

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<v Speaker 1>that's kind of messed up. Jason, What like when people

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<v Speaker 1>are like, when we have these kinde of like moral

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<v Speaker 1>panics like canceling the Crucible, do you think it's really

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<v Speaker 1>about protecting the children or do you think it's more

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<v Speaker 1>about you know, people showing their true colors and what

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<v Speaker 1>kind of narcissists they are?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, yeah, yeah, you know, you hear that word narcissism

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<v Speaker 4>thrown around, but when when I when I hear the

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<v Speaker 4>term narcissism, it's it's very clinical. And the thing that

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<v Speaker 4>I've won about narcissists is that they despise truth. So okay,

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<v Speaker 4>so if you tell someone about if you let's say,

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<v Speaker 4>let's say Tracy's a narcissist, and I'm like, hey, Helen,

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<v Speaker 4>Tracy did some shit, you know, and it was really

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<v Speaker 4>messed up. But it's true. What Tracy's pissed about isn't

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<v Speaker 4>anything other than the fact that you know about their

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<v Speaker 4>stuff that they try to keep secret. So if you

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<v Speaker 4>tell someone about their actual actions, their actual thoughts, their

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<v Speaker 4>their motivations, they have meltdowns because you know that facid

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<v Speaker 4>it gets exposed, you know. So I'm convinced that this

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<v Speaker 4>is like a strong example of that they were able

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<v Speaker 4>to harness like the fears of idiots to push like

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<v Speaker 4>an unethical agenda that's based around lies and gas lighting

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<v Speaker 4>and triangulation. And that's what a narcissist does. I mean

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<v Speaker 4>this play like you, like you said in the intro,

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<v Speaker 4>the purpose of this place to highlight multiple issues that

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<v Speaker 4>all like congregate around one thing, and that's the misuse

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<v Speaker 4>of authority and authoritarian power with religious undertones. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>I would understand why that would make some people's cognitive

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<v Speaker 4>this and then's maybe spike a little bit, and then

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<v Speaker 4>they have to soothe it by being a bunch of

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<v Speaker 4>effing liars. I mean, it's gross. And then the way

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<v Speaker 4>they I was a tech guy, we did little shop

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<v Speaker 4>whrres and I mean we like theater was the only

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<v Speaker 4>thing in the high school that anybody heard about. The

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<v Speaker 4>high Scholl went to was rough, and so our theater

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<v Speaker 4>crew we ran the school and we had this huge

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<v Speaker 4>auditorium it was crazy and I've deteched. We did a

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<v Speaker 4>little shop of hores. We had a full like a

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<v Speaker 4>full giant plant, and I mean it was amazing. We

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<v Speaker 4>did Dracula, we did everything. So I get it. It's

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<v Speaker 4>a ton of work. And if miss Pettitt hadn't been

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<v Speaker 4>there the whole time it had dropped out, that would

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<v Speaker 4>have been insane. You know, We've had people drop out

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<v Speaker 4>and it's insane. So these kids, look, this is good

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<v Speaker 4>because bad press is the best press. These kids are

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<v Speaker 4>getting attention now. I mean thousands of people who watch

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<v Speaker 4>these shows. So now we're talking about these kids performance.

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<v Speaker 4>Hopefully this this does something for them. Anybody watching this,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, maybe you know, if you want to reach

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<v Speaker 4>out and donate.

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<v Speaker 3>Some love to some kids, you know, there you go.

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<v Speaker 1>I think also too, like and I know that I

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<v Speaker 1>brought the Hammadsdale because this is the thing about what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on is that this is like it's the same

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<v Speaker 1>like like I have to imagine that Arthur Mary Miller

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<v Speaker 1>is just like rolling over in his grave, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to cancel this play, which is all about you know,

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<v Speaker 1>moral panic and you know, letting to be swept up

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<v Speaker 1>in hysteria and the harm that comes from that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's why Alvin during the Salem witch trials and

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<v Speaker 1>people died for no reason other than moral panic. So

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<v Speaker 1>if we're and I like and I can you can

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<v Speaker 1>feel it in you know, in the zeitgeist. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>the thing that why this play because it's been performed

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<v Speaker 1>in high schools for a few decades now and read

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<v Speaker 1>and studied because it's about authoritarian control, not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>not thinking critically and being swept up into hysteria, which

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<v Speaker 1>kids need to know about. That's how. And so the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that parents are concerned has more to say about

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<v Speaker 1>the fact moral leans on the side of like the

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<v Speaker 1>book burnings that it has to lead to, like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>moral panic and warrying about you know, the safety of

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<v Speaker 1>the children. I mean, like the kids were performing the play,

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<v Speaker 1>they knew what they were reading, you know. Hello. So Tracy, Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>if you if you were going to push back against

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned and titled parents and that override educators and the students.

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<v Speaker 1>But the students would you know they were trying to

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<v Speaker 1>silence their voice. What would you do as far as

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<v Speaker 1>your pushback if you had the power to so, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Would that I were an administrator be that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a principle or what you call it, a superintendent or

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<v Speaker 2>something to that effect. I don't I don't really see

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<v Speaker 2>the need to eat even do anything like like like

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<v Speaker 2>that's that That's what I'm running into here, Like I

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<v Speaker 2>really feel like if this was a decision from the

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<v Speaker 2>principal side of things, the principle could have easily just

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<v Speaker 2>done nothing and everything would have been okay. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>even really see. And I think the pushback you need

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<v Speaker 2>to do is to just ignore them whoever whoever's complaining,

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<v Speaker 2>if you have the authority to do so, because at

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, this is a show put

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<v Speaker 2>on by the school. If let's take it to an analogy,

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<v Speaker 2>if the if the high school football team is running

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<v Speaker 2>plays that where I don't know how many people are

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<v Speaker 2>on a football team, but you, uh, but they aren't

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<v Speaker 2>very good. No amount of tea like like, what's the

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<v Speaker 2>amount of parents coming to you and complaining about this

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<v Speaker 2>as an administrator, what amount of parents is going to

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<v Speaker 2>get you to go actually go talk to your u

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<v Speaker 2>to pull your football team out of the season. No,

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<v Speaker 2>the kids are having fun. They're there to learn about

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<v Speaker 2>playing sports. They're not there to actually I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>different schools have different goals, but like, the kids aren't

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<v Speaker 2>putting on a show to express a certain political agenda.

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<v Speaker 2>They're putting on a show to express their creativity and

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<v Speaker 2>to learn about the process of the arts. If you

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<v Speaker 2>don't want your kid participating in it, that's fine, pull

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<v Speaker 2>your kid out. If you don't want to see the show,

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<v Speaker 2>that's fine, don't go see it. Where this whole the

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<v Speaker 2>school is not going to live or die based off

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<v Speaker 2>of whether or not little Jimmy who's in the chorus,

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<v Speaker 2>or your family comes and buys tickets to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>I think this is something that could have just been ignored.

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<v Speaker 2>Then again, I don't know the extent of the complaints.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe this came directly from George's house representatives, who knows.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't have much information, but I think that's a

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<v Speaker 2>little outside of the realm of reality. I think this

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<v Speaker 2>was either some parents whose kids were in the show

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<v Speaker 2>and weren't very attentive about it and didn't want to

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<v Speaker 2>simply pull out their own child from the production. They

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to ruin it for everyone else, or it's just

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<v Speaker 2>you know, ancillary, unrelated parents who decided to whine and complain,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe not even parents, maybe just random people. We I

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately don't know who lodged these complaints, but it seems

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<v Speaker 2>like a thing that could have easily been ignored well, and.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that, you know, what is concerning about this

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<v Speaker 1>is that if let's just say it's a handful of parents,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't, like we said, we don't know

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<v Speaker 1>the extent, but like, you know, let's just say that

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<v Speaker 1>it was and they had a particular problem with the

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<v Speaker 1>opening scene and they just made a big like hooplah

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<v Speaker 1>about it. And the fact that the administrators considered folding

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<v Speaker 1>that is a lot. And I don't know if the

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<v Speaker 1>particular parents had any sort of like state in influence

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<v Speaker 1>maybe would affect funding. You know, we don't know because

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<v Speaker 1>if because if it's was when those things they be ignored,

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<v Speaker 1>where someone was just like belly aching, then you can

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<v Speaker 1>be like, well don't come, you know, you don't have

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<v Speaker 1>like the kids decide to participate. It could be that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, if the if the threat was you know,

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<v Speaker 1>actual going to cause actual long term you know, harm,

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<v Speaker 1>then we're having a different conversation when we don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's the thing that I find concerning because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>people complain about crap all the time. It doesn't get canceled.

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<v Speaker 1>People are just like, well, don't participate, that's your choice.

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<v Speaker 1>No I don't. I'm like, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you're right about the safety thing. If there

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<v Speaker 2>was like a real potential for harm here, a demonstrable

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<v Speaker 2>potential for harm, then it would it would be like

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<v Speaker 2>if they were putting on a stage production of Lolita.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think that would be the best thing for

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<v Speaker 2>those kids to be doing. Maybe we can have them

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<v Speaker 2>put on a different show. But just because of the

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<v Speaker 2>themes in that particular show, I don't think they're necessarily

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<v Speaker 2>appropriate for children to be portraying uh in that particular

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<v Speaker 2>novel and film. But as far as I know, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know you probably you know more about the critcipal

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<v Speaker 2>than I do. You were in a production of it,

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<v Speaker 2>Is there anything like? Are there suggestive theme? Like what's

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<v Speaker 2>the I know it was a dance. It was the

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<v Speaker 2>dance where they were describing the allegations for the witch girls.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the thing is, though there's there's an eluded scene

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<v Speaker 1>in the beginning of the play. This oracle mentioned that

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<v Speaker 1>there was a bunch of girls in the woods you know,

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<v Speaker 1>summoning spirits, and it's alluded to that they were summoning

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<v Speaker 1>the devil. But the rest of the play is about

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<v Speaker 1>basically how Salem, Massachusetts did a witch hunt. That is

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<v Speaker 1>the whole point and the criticism, and Arthur Miller used

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<v Speaker 1>real uh court records of the things that were said

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<v Speaker 1>and what happened in court. But the whole point of

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<v Speaker 1>the play is the show moral panic, people believing in

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<v Speaker 1>hysterica and Stuward natural superstitious beliefs. So, Jason, you have

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<v Speaker 1>first hand experience dealing with bullshit from schools. Uh so,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm curious, but you're kind of feeling about this is

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<v Speaker 1>someone that has dealt with bullcraft from schools, getting worried

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<v Speaker 1>about nothing and worrying about the moral decay of the children.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, here's the thing I've had. I've had.

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<v Speaker 4>This bird is cleaning it It's just happy. I'm sorry,

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<v Speaker 4>my bird sitting and it has to clean itself. Forward

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<v Speaker 4>screams with me. It has to be on you and

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<v Speaker 4>fell in love with me. So sorry about that. It's

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<v Speaker 4>just going nuts over here.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay. So one I've had to change schools.

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<v Speaker 4>I've had to pull my kid out of a school

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<v Speaker 4>out of actually out of a school district, and I

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<v Speaker 4>had to find a private school that you know, I've

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<v Speaker 4>definitely put a little a lot of hard work in

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<v Speaker 4>who banged for and whenever certain things arose at that school. Luckily,

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<v Speaker 4>there were people that were willing to have a conversation enough.

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<v Speaker 4>It's interesting. In one occasion, my kiddo there apparently was

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<v Speaker 4>how do I give it not too much? There was

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<v Speaker 4>one kid who expressed some religious beliefs, my kid expressed

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<v Speaker 4>some non religious beliefs. They you know, started having a

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<v Speaker 4>little bit of bickering. So one kid started wearing a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of like very religious shirts, but very blatant. So

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<v Speaker 4>my kid has like shirts that we generally wear, like

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<v Speaker 4>around the house or to go see bands play, and

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<v Speaker 4>you know, like black metal band shirts and short this

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<v Speaker 4>is gay for Satan, just fun, fun shirts, and so

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<v Speaker 4>my kiddo started wearing some of those shirts to school,

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<v Speaker 4>and I'm like, oh man. So we had some conversations.

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<v Speaker 4>We made some agreements that nobody's allowed to wear any

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<v Speaker 4>blatantly religious stuff. So if my kid's not allowed to,

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<v Speaker 4>nobody else is allowed to. So we came to some

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<v Speaker 4>things I brought up being members of the Satanic Temple,

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<v Speaker 4>which you know, I know people have mixed feelings about

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<v Speaker 4>different branches, but as a whole, they've actually helped you

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<v Speaker 4>with some things, and I really appreciate what they've done.

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<v Speaker 4>And it really opened up some good discussions, and we

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<v Speaker 4>talked about atheism and equal rights, and my kids learned

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<v Speaker 4>how to communicate with people who were willing to communicate

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<v Speaker 4>but had different beliefs and stand up for themselves in

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<v Speaker 4>a safe enough environment. So we've definitely learned a lot

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<v Speaker 4>and are learning a lot right now with some recent

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<v Speaker 4>situations we're going through about how people can target.

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<v Speaker 3>You and how you can present yourself.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's the thing is when you live in a

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<v Speaker 4>place like in Texas and you have let's say, atheistic leanings,

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<v Speaker 4>queer tendencies, children of that in nature haven't forbid anything

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<v Speaker 4>that's gender nonconforming, you're going to have to deal with

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<v Speaker 4>these things in one way or another. And we just

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<v Speaker 4>we refuse really to run. So we're just trying to

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<v Speaker 4>learn how to play it smart. So my partner and

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<v Speaker 4>I and my kid all go to different types of

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<v Speaker 4>counseling and therapy and family sessions, and we work really

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<v Speaker 4>hard together to navigate this world. So my advice would

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<v Speaker 4>be become a really strong family unit and a team,

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<v Speaker 4>and don't be a coward, but fight the right way,

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<v Speaker 4>you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's me No, And I think I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>a really really good point because I know it's I

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<v Speaker 1>my kids are you know, I've been out of high

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<v Speaker 1>school for a few years now, they're adults. I've been

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<v Speaker 1>out of high school a while.

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<v Speaker 3>So like seven years, right, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Only seven seven maybe all these seven multiply that by

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<v Speaker 1>four anyway.

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<v Speaker 5>So that being but being you know, looking back on

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<v Speaker 5>my own experiences and even my kids experiences of like

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<v Speaker 5>these moral panics and things like that, it didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Happen very much. And now it seems that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>with book bands and banning a play because it talks

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<v Speaker 1>about solution.

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<v Speaker 3>There was about a twenty years race period.

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<v Speaker 4>There was like from Clinton until about two years after Obama.

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<v Speaker 4>There was a little grace period because I grew up

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<v Speaker 4>in the Satanic panic, and I grew up in a

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<v Speaker 4>church that was very scary and they were convinced demons

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<v Speaker 4>were everywhere and everything was demonic. So I grew up,

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, in that environment. But I'm realizing now that

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<v Speaker 4>was much more insular than it really was, so we're

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<v Speaker 4>we're looking at like a twenty year lag. But I agree,

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<v Speaker 4>it's it's fucking scary now, Like this is scary as

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<v Speaker 4>fuck and it's weird, and I hear people talking about

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<v Speaker 4>it on the job side, which is a no no,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, you don't talk about that shit at work

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<v Speaker 4>or at the bar or at the gym, and now

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<v Speaker 4>people are, and I'm like, that's not good. Even with

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<v Speaker 4>Southern ethics, it's not good. Like your Southern honor ethics

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<v Speaker 4>are being destroyed. I don't know how good those are,

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<v Speaker 4>but at least that was there, at least people would

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<v Speaker 4>shut up, and nobody shuts the fuck up anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, Tracy, I would like to get as a

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<v Speaker 1>former theater kid, I would like to hear your final

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<v Speaker 1>word on this particular story, because it's not great. Unfortunately.

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<v Speaker 2>I think my final word on this story is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be an encouragement to those children that were affected

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<v Speaker 2>by this. Don't allow and it doesn't seem like you are.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I saw a video response sort of like a

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<v Speaker 2>vlog from one of the actors. I watched that on

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<v Speaker 2>the article, and they seem to be you know, soldiering forth,

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<v Speaker 2>especially after losing their director. Those in the arts are

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<v Speaker 2>probably always going to be attacked for their expression of art,

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<v Speaker 2>and just understand that that is one of the side

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<v Speaker 2>effects of being in the arts, and that it isn't

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily a comment on who you are. It's a comment

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<v Speaker 2>on who the people are that are making these attacks. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>it isn't a comment on you.

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<v Speaker 4>It means what you're doing is awesome, that somebody is

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<v Speaker 4>hating on it and it messes with them.

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<v Speaker 3>What you did was great, keep doing again. That's art.

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<v Speaker 3>Art is there to like stick in your teeth. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>kudos to whatever y'all did.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that is a very good positive note

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<v Speaker 1>to end this on. So if you want to hear

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<v Speaker 1>more of what we have to say, and please find

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<v Speaker 1>a video and like and subscribe, and maybe visit our

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<v Speaker 1>merch shop because we have clothing, so do that as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll see y'all next time.