Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna get right back
Speaker 1: to the Leslie Groff transcript from her meeting with Congress.
Speaker 1: Mister Timmins is asking the questions question. Okay, so let's
Speaker 1: talk about flights and hotels. No, let's go to hair appointments.
Speaker 1: As part of your employment. Were you allowed to get
Speaker 1: your hair done at a fancy day spot, miss Groff?
Speaker 1: I did every so often, Timmins. Okay, is it fokai Groff? Yes, Timmins,
Speaker 1: but only two of the seven? Were three of the
Speaker 1: seven were allowed to get their hair appointments done without
Speaker 1: his specific approval. There's an email I can get it
Speaker 1: for you, Groff. Okay, Timmins. So why would do you
Speaker 1: have it? Why would you control whether his assistance got
Speaker 1: access to hair appointments? Groff? I didn't control one of
Speaker 1: his assistants. Timmins. There's an email with you and redacted,
Speaker 1: and you say in your email it says Jeffrey says
Speaker 1: that me and two of the seven survivors are authorized
Speaker 1: to make our own appointments. Is that not strange? Mister
Speaker 1: Wickham jumps in, sir, she wasn't even able to answer
Speaker 1: your last question, so you just have to let her
Speaker 1: answer the question. Please, Emmer. At this time, I would
Speaker 1: like to introduce what will be marked as majority Exhibit
Speaker 1: number eight. Mister Whitcomb. She's happy to answer your questions.
Speaker 1: You've got to let her finish respectively. Emmer will give
Speaker 1: you a moment to review the document. Timmins, So the
Speaker 1: king giveth and the King taketh away. So if you
Speaker 1: don't do what he says, if you don't act right,
Speaker 1: if you don't smile, if you don't cooperate with every
Speaker 1: single one of his requests, then you lose things. You
Speaker 1: could lose access to your computer or your phone, you
Speaker 1: could lose access to getting your hair appointments. It's just
Speaker 1: difficult that all of this was going on and that
Speaker 1: you were in the middle of it and you didn't
Speaker 1: see it. Backner see what the hair appointments. Timmins didn't
Speaker 1: see the way that he was using all these different
Speaker 1: levels of control to engage in sex trafficking. And the
Speaker 1: seven survivors as they entered your office who were going
Speaker 1: to be sexually assaulted Bocknerts, So I don't Timmins cuts
Speaker 1: them off. You didn't know until he got arrested, Grof.
Speaker 1: Everyone was very very happy. No one ever came to
Speaker 1: me and showed me any duress said that they were unhappy.
Speaker 1: From my perspective, it seemed like everyone was really happy
Speaker 1: to be there. No one ever said anything to me
Speaker 1: that they were unhappy or being abused. Question by Timmins.
Speaker 1: Did you ever suspect that the seven survivors were engaging
Speaker 1: in sexual activity with Jeffrey Epstein? Groff? No, Timmins, your
Speaker 1: job requires you to be very perceptive. What percent of
Speaker 1: these women entered your office, waited for however long, went
Speaker 1: back for however long, and left looking different than when
Speaker 1: they came in. Groff, I'm sorry about getting the haircut,
Speaker 1: or Timmins, you would notice if I had wet if
Speaker 1: I had wet hair, or if I had no hair,
Speaker 1: because I have no hair. But if you came into
Speaker 1: my office and went into somebody else's office and came
Speaker 1: out a half hour later with wet hair, I would go,
Speaker 1: what the hell do you happened? Graff? I didn't see
Speaker 1: anybody with wet hair. This was a professional office, professional area.
Speaker 1: I didn't see anything inappropriate. People went and got their
Speaker 1: haircut and would come back. Timmins. The seven survivors will
Speaker 1: testify eventually that about one third of the time they
Speaker 1: would go back, the assault was so bad that they
Speaker 1: would have to take a shower or clean off. So
Speaker 1: the fact that you never saw any of them leave
Speaker 1: with wet hair is somewhat surprising. Graf. I don't recall
Speaker 1: seeing anyone with wet hair leaving the office his home. Timmins,
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about immigration. Are you aware that
Speaker 1: mister Epstein used immigration as a tool of control for
Speaker 1: the victims? Miss Groff? No, Timmins, did you ever engage
Speaker 1: in any effort to facilitate citizenship applications for any of
Speaker 1: the seven survivors? Miss Groff? The only thing that I
Speaker 1: did was help with travel, and that was per directed.
Speaker 1: And it seemed to me that anybody that was asked
Speaker 1: that I was booking for travel for wanted this to happen.
Speaker 1: There was no signs to me that they did not
Speaker 1: want to be there. No one said anything to me,
Speaker 1: mister Bauckner, and just for and just in all fairness,
Speaker 1: we don't know the identity of these seven survivors. She
Speaker 1: may be able to surmise, but we're kind of answering
Speaker 1: questions without knowing the identity Timmins redacted or redacted or
Speaker 1: redacted or redacted, redacted or redacted or redacted. I imagine you
Speaker 1: know who they are, Miss Groff. I recognize those names, Timmins.
Speaker 1: If we were to believe you that you had no
Speaker 1: knowledge of any of this, let's turn to those people
Speaker 1: that just had to have some Indke and Cohn were
Speaker 1: central to the money and the legal hula hoops it
Speaker 1: had to go through in order to pull this off.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's possible that would it surprise you
Speaker 1: to know that without their knowledge, Epstein and Endyke use
Speaker 1: their social security numbers of the seven survivors to create businesses,
Speaker 1: take out loans, and create lines of credit in an
Speaker 1: effort to trap them in a maze of financial insolvency.
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, I don't think that anybody did any thing
Speaker 1: wrong without mister Epstein's directive. He was very, very controlling.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know about any of that question.
Speaker 1: But if he directed you, he directed you to schedule
Speaker 1: a massage with the twelve year old, you would say no, Graf,
Speaker 1: I would say no, absolutely, one hundred percent question. Okay,
Speaker 1: So if he directed in Dyke to pull a line
Speaker 1: of credit and create a business without the knowledge of
Speaker 1: one of his other alleged assistants, I mean, you have
Speaker 1: fiduciary obligations to the person you're engaging with. So it
Speaker 1: would actually be legal for someone to take out a
Speaker 1: line of credit or create a business, or take out
Speaker 1: a credit card in someone's name that is not the
Speaker 1: individual or is that just a gray area? Backner? Are
Speaker 1: you asking if she's aware if he was doing that, Timmins,
Speaker 1: is that something that he should not do? Graff? I
Speaker 1: think that, yeah, I don't think that. That's nothing that
Speaker 1: I know about. I'm unaware of any lines of credit
Speaker 1: or anything like that being taken out. You know, LLC's
Speaker 1: whatever you said, Timmins. Can you appreciate all of the
Speaker 1: different levels of control that he created to put these
Speaker 1: women into this situation? Groff? I didn't I knew gets
Speaker 1: cut off by Timmins. Do you understand now? Do you
Speaker 1: understand now, Groff? In hindsight, I can step back and
Speaker 1: I can see how that how that could have been
Speaker 1: wanted it to be like that. At the time, I
Speaker 1: thought it was things that these cut off by backner.
Speaker 1: He's asking you, now, do you see how he could
Speaker 1: have done that? Now, Graf, Yeah, I could see stepping
Speaker 1: back and seeing how, like you said, monitoring them, but
Speaker 1: not back then, not back then, Timmins. So I've talked
Speaker 1: to three of the victims, and every time their name
Speaker 1: is on an appointment with blank, they said about ninety
Speaker 1: eight percent they were sexually assaulted and raped and they
Speaker 1: felt trapped. And I guess you are to have us
Speaker 1: believe that that was completely oblivious to you. I don't
Speaker 1: have any more questions, thank you. Now, Miss Toland is
Speaker 1: asking questions, and just to turn back to Exhibit eight
Speaker 1: for a few more questions. This email is bait stamped
Speaker 1: EFTA zero two two four eight four to three zero.
Speaker 1: The bottom email appears to be an email written by
Speaker 1: you ms Groff to Jeffrey Epstein. Did you schedule hair
Speaker 1: appointments for women associated with mister Epstein at mister Fochaie
Speaker 1: Salon Answer yes. Question why were you the one scheduling them?
Speaker 1: Answer because I was mister Epstein's secretary and he would
Speaker 1: direct me to make appointments. Question and what was the
Speaker 1: arrangement between mister Fokai and mister Epstein for his hair appointments. Answer.
Speaker 1: I believe that mister Epstein had an account there, so
Speaker 1: whenever somebody went, the appointment would just be paid with
Speaker 1: their credit card on the account, Miss Brignac. And who
Speaker 1: are the women that were receiving haircuts? Miss Groff? Definitely
Speaker 1: the traveling assistance, but he could send other friends, I
Speaker 1: suppose at times. Question and in this email you state
Speaker 1: I want to make sure it's okay with you for
Speaker 1: the girls to make their own appointments at FACAI. Do
Speaker 1: they have your permission? Why did they need mister Epstein's
Speaker 1: permission to go? Answer? Because it was his money that
Speaker 1: they were using and Frederick Focai hair appointments are expensive.
Speaker 1: Question and why did mister Epstein We've heard from numerous
Speaker 1: people that mister Epstein dictated the style, color, everything about
Speaker 1: the haircut that they'd receive. Do you know why he
Speaker 1: would do that? Answer? I did not know at the time.
Speaker 1: Since we've been prepping for this testimony, I have learned
Speaker 1: that was something that he did, but I didn't know
Speaker 1: at the time. Question, And you're aware of any instances
Speaker 1: or did you any women came to you with any
Speaker 1: allegations about mister Fokai abusing a young woman or a girl.
Speaker 1: Answer no, mister Emmer, We've had another staff member join.
Speaker 1: Can he please identify himself for the record. Ryan Giachetti,
Speaker 1: chief counsel for Chairman Comer nice Italian name. Question did
Speaker 1: you ever schedule medical appointments for any women associated with
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer? Not that I can recall offhand. Question. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm going to introduce majority exhibit number nine. This is
Speaker 1: a chain of emails between you Ms Groff and Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1: The email is dated April seventh, twenty fourteen, and is
Speaker 1: bate stamped EFTA zero one nine two eight seven seven three,
Speaker 1: Miss Toland, I'll give you a moment to review the email. Question.
Speaker 1: So in the email, you're right at the top. One
Speaker 1: of the doctors Eva gave us could give a partial
Speaker 1: exam to redact to this Saturday, April twelfth. He said
Speaker 1: he could probably be available from one to four pm.
Speaker 1: And it continues on. Doctor Neil Voros says it's too
Speaker 1: much to do in one day for an entire exam.
Speaker 1: He's concerned that she speaks Polish as a first language.
Speaker 1: How fluent is redacted in English? I keep being asked this.
Speaker 1: It continues on, but that is probably all we need
Speaker 1: for the purpose of the question. Do you recall sending
Speaker 1: this email? Answer I do not recall that email. Question
Speaker 1: do you know the type of exam you were booking
Speaker 1: for what appears to be a Polish speaking woman? Answer?
Speaker 1: I believe she's taking some sort of written exam. I
Speaker 1: don't know to be a doctor or nurse. It's an
Speaker 1: exam that this person wants to take. Question Doctor Neil
Speaker 1: Voris is a registered clinical psychologist. Do you know if
Speaker 1: this was for any kind of psychological evaluation? Answer? Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question was mister Epstein paying for this
Speaker 1: test or appointment? Answer? I don't recall the email, so
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to say. Mister Epstein did pay
Speaker 1: for a lot of people to, you know, go to school.
Speaker 1: Question and do you know if this appointment was for
Speaker 1: the purpose of placing this woman on any kind of medication? Answer?
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Question And with scheduling medical appointments
Speaker 1: or anything of this kind common practice in your role
Speaker 1: as mister Epstein's secretary, Answer common practice? No question do
Speaker 1: you now frequently you might have scheduled appointments? Like this
Speaker 1: for other women. Answer, I don't recall ever, I don't
Speaker 1: ever recall making this appointment. I don't know, Brignac. You
Speaker 1: just testified that he paid for things frequently, like school.
Speaker 1: So is this a unique circumstance, Groff, A unique circumstance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't recall this. She wants to go take an exam.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what kind of exam. But he paid
Speaker 1: for people to go to school, Brignac. But you never
Speaker 1: questioned why you'd be paying for this person's medical appointment, Groff,
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was a medical appointment. Tolan. Neil
Speaker 1: Voris is a registered psychologist who we understand him to be,
Speaker 1: so it appears that she's taking some kind of psychological
Speaker 1: evaluation or something of the sort. Graf, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I don't know what kind of doctor
Speaker 1: doctor neil Voris is. It was someone that Eva Jeffrey's friend,
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's friend, Brignac ms Groff. Can you explain what
Speaker 1: you meant? But he does not do this kind of
Speaker 1: testing in his clinic, Graf, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't remember this, so I'm sorry. I wish I
Speaker 1: could tell you more, But really, I don't know what
Speaker 1: this is? Was she taking an exam? Backner? If your
Speaker 1: answer is you don't know, then that's your answer. Groff,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what this is. Question
Speaker 1: and this Eva? Are you referring to Eva Dubin? Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: question and do you know her involvement? Did she ever
Speaker 1: conduct medical evaluations or did she organize medical appointments for
Speaker 1: women associated with Epstein? Answer? Not that I recall question.
Speaker 1: I think that's all the questions we have on this exhibit,
Speaker 1: just generally. Did you schedule any other kind of appointment
Speaker 1: for young women or girls associated with mister Epstein? Answer no?
Speaker 1: All right, folks, We're going to wrap up right here,
Speaker 1: and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
Speaker 1: to pick up where he left off with Leslie Groff
Speaker 1: and her interview with Congress. Question and then just some
Speaker 1: brief questions. I know you were asked in the last hour,
Speaker 1: but some brief questions about your role and book and
Speaker 1: travel transportation in your role is mister Epstein' said secretary?
Speaker 1: Did you often book travel or transportation? Answer? I did
Speaker 1: after Sarah Kellen left. Prior to that, it was more
Speaker 1: Sarah or other people in the office. Question do you
Speaker 1: know what year that was? Answer? I want to say
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, twenty twelve, something like that, when she was Brignac.
Speaker 1: Why did Sarah leave Miss Groff she got married. Question
Speaker 1: did you book flights as part of your job? Answer yes,
Speaker 1: question for mister Epstein answer there was a time when
Speaker 1: his plane wasn't working, so yes, I would book flights
Speaker 1: for him commercial through MX Centurion. Question did you book
Speaker 1: flights for any of his guests? Answer yes, question any
Speaker 1: of his friends? Answer it's possible. Question do you recall
Speaker 1: any specific instances where you did? Answer not offhand? Question
Speaker 1: did you book flights for Miss Maxwell? Answer I don't
Speaker 1: believe so. I think she always flew on his airplane.
Speaker 1: Question did you book flights for any other assistant of
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer traveling assistance? Yes. Question did you plan
Speaker 1: travel for mister Epstein as well? Answer? What I schedule?
Speaker 1: His gets caught off question? Any itineraries book any activities,
Speaker 1: book appointments in a location he'd be traveling to answer yes. Question,
Speaker 1: And now we've already discussed how a majority of your
Speaker 1: tasks involved making calls, taking messages, communicating back and forth
Speaker 1: with mister Epstein, scheduling appointments. Is that all of fairer characterization? Answer? Yes. Question.
Speaker 1: I would now like to introduce what will be marked
Speaker 1: as majority Exhibit ten. This is FBI note from the
Speaker 1: Swarren statement that you gave to the FBI on September
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, twenty twenty one. It's BATES marked EFTA zero
Speaker 1: one two four six two one six. She's going to
Speaker 1: get that passed out and we'll give you some time
Speaker 1: to review. In the meantime, I'm just going to ask
Speaker 1: you some general questions about the interview, If that's okay.
Speaker 1: Answer sure. Question, So you were interviewed by the FBI
Speaker 1: on September twenty five, worth, twenty twenty one, related to
Speaker 1: the investigation into mister Epstein. Is that correct? Answer? Correct? Question?
Speaker 1: Why did you provide this testimony? Answer? I did so voluntarily.
Speaker 1: Question Were you interviewed by the FBI or any other
Speaker 1: law enforcement agency on any other occasion? Answer? No question.
Speaker 1: Did you provide any evidence, documents, or other material to
Speaker 1: the FBI? Answer? No, Backner, just so, Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: a sworn statement, but it's her statement, Tolan. It's notes
Speaker 1: from her statement, but not sworn Backner. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: not sworn, Miss Tolan. Okay, thank you, question, and then
Speaker 1: we'll give you a second to review. Answer. Okay, you
Speaker 1: want me to read the whole entire thing. Question, You
Speaker 1: don't have to read it, if you remember, I have
Speaker 1: some specific questions that I can point you to answer,
Speaker 1: questions that you can guide me. Question Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: would like me to begin answer uh huh. Question. So
Speaker 1: on page two you state the man, mister Epstein, would
Speaker 1: give you a call list of who you were supposed
Speaker 1: to or of who he wanted to see and have
Speaker 1: appointments with. I think we've already discussed that in length.
Speaker 1: But you would receive that daily. Is that correct? And
Speaker 1: then make appointments accordingly? Answer yes. Question. On page two
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you were responsible for making all phone calls,
Speaker 1: including calling the chef and the driver. Is that accurate? Answer? Yes?
Speaker 1: Question what would you coordinate with each of them about?
Speaker 1: Answer the driver for when mister Epstein wanted to be
Speaker 1: picked up, and where he was supposed to be picked up,
Speaker 1: Give the driver an address for when he wanted to
Speaker 1: leave the house and be sure to be outside and
Speaker 1: ready to go. That type of thing. The chef would
Speaker 1: be if he wanted a chef to bring lunch over
Speaker 1: to the office, or it could be that he, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever he wanted for breakfast, lunch, or dinner, and just
Speaker 1: coordinate that with the chef to make sure that he's
Speaker 1: ready at the right time with whatever it is mister
Speaker 1: Epstein wanted to eat. Question and were those conversations happening daily?
Speaker 1: And sure? Oh yes? Question? And on page three you
Speaker 1: mentioned that you would coordinate with the pilots of mister
Speaker 1: Epstein's plane. Is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question what would
Speaker 1: you coordinate with the pilots about? Answer the time that
Speaker 1: he wanted to leave the day you wanted to leave,
Speaker 1: usually that would be that would be it. Question would
Speaker 1: you inform the pilots about guess mister Epstein was bringing
Speaker 1: on his plane? Answer yes, that could be possible to
Speaker 1: about who was going to be traveling on the flight.
Speaker 1: Question and were those frequent communications as well with the pilots? Answer?
Speaker 1: I mean yes, it would be whenever he was going
Speaker 1: to be traveling. Question and then on page three you
Speaker 1: also mentioned you'd coordinate or you would schedule business meetings
Speaker 1: architects and designers. Is that also correct? Answer? Yes, Question
Speaker 1: what would you coordinate with each of them about? Answer? Well,
Speaker 1: the business meetings, It was just all his associates that
Speaker 1: I would coordinate meetings with, be at his office or
Speaker 1: at his home. Architects are recall buying tickets for them
Speaker 1: to fly in. They would provide architectural plans. Mister Epstein
Speaker 1: never seemed to be satisfied with any of the architects
Speaker 1: and the designers. They would come and visit them. I
Speaker 1: would make appointments with them, possibly by the mirror, travel
Speaker 1: as well, and just coordinate phone calls with all these
Speaker 1: people as well. Question and just again, so the record's clear,
Speaker 1: we've talked about your role in scheduling business meetings a
Speaker 1: lot of different times. Today, is your testimony that you
Speaker 1: did not have any knowledge about the purpose of what
Speaker 1: went on in each of those meetings? Answer that is correct.
Speaker 1: Question you just scheduled. Answer merely scheduled. Correct. Brignac. In
Speaker 1: your opening statement, I believe you said something to the
Speaker 1: effect of you were thrust into the lives of the
Speaker 1: rich and famous. But your testimony is sounded like you
Speaker 1: were kept at an arm's length and that this was
Speaker 1: very humdrum work, not as exciting as you said it was.
Speaker 1: Can you help clarify my confusion, miss Groft? Sure, it
Speaker 1: was exciting just to know that you're talking to these
Speaker 1: people's offices. I was not friends, but it's more exciting
Speaker 1: than just speaking to, you know, the neighbor or the
Speaker 1: regular businessmen. They were all very important people. You know.
Speaker 1: It was exciting. Even though I had no real relationship
Speaker 1: with these people, it was still it was better than
Speaker 1: just working at your average accounting office and speaking to,
Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of accountants. Nothing wrong with accountants.
Speaker 1: I just mean these were movie producers, you know, record producers, businessmen,
Speaker 1: Wall Street businessmen, government people. You know. It was not
Speaker 1: normal poland. Question and you mentioned on page eight that
Speaker 1: mister Epstein would tell you to find a trader on
Speaker 1: a few occasions. Is that correct answer? I'm sorry page eight?
Speaker 1: Answer yeah? Question or answer? Okay, where are you question?
Speaker 1: It should be near the top of the page. You
Speaker 1: mentioned Epstein asking you to find a trader. Answer, Oh,
Speaker 1: I think this is about a certain incident. Just bear
Speaker 1: with me one second. Yeah, I recall one time mister
Speaker 1: Epstein wanted to make a trade and it was something
Speaker 1: if you know a about trading things, stocks move and
Speaker 1: every second matters, and I believe that I recall him
Speaker 1: calling and telling me to get this person on the phone.
Speaker 1: In my head, I was like, why is he not
Speaker 1: just calling the person if it's so important that it
Speaker 1: gets done, you know right away the stock's owing the move,
Speaker 1: and I felt I remember I had to find the
Speaker 1: phone number for the trader, and you know, that was it.
Speaker 1: It was just one of those incidents. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: nerve wracking for me. Question just a one time occurrence. Answer.
Speaker 1: I definitely remember that one occurrence. I'm not saying I
Speaker 1: didn't connect them to a trader. Another time question and
Speaker 1: then a few quick questions. You mentioned it briefly about
Speaker 1: how exciting the work was. Did you enjoy working as
Speaker 1: an assistant or secretary apologies for mister Epstein. Answer. I
Speaker 1: did at the time, Miss Brignatt, Can you elaborate groth.
Speaker 1: It was exciting, it was challenging, It was super super busy.
Speaker 1: It was not like a regular a regular job as
Speaker 1: an assistant. It was just tear on fire, lots of commotion.
Speaker 1: People own islands and airplanes and homes in other parts
Speaker 1: of the world. It was exciting, just not like a
Speaker 1: regular job. Question and how did mister Epstein treat you
Speaker 1: or how did he treat you as a boss? Answer?
Speaker 1: As my boss, he was professional. He did not get
Speaker 1: close to me. If you asked him, I bet he
Speaker 1: would say that he didn't even know my husband's name
Speaker 1: or my son's name. It was not that kind of relationship.
Speaker 1: He would demand no mistakes. But I liked the challenge.
Speaker 1: I did get in trouble at times, but I also
Speaker 1: felt like I was good at coordinating and managing his
Speaker 1: phones and calling people and organizing his day, and I
Speaker 1: felt value from that. But we were not friends. We
Speaker 1: did not socialize. I did not see him outside of work,
Speaker 1: and it was all on purpose. Question and you mentioned
Speaker 1: it just then and in your opening statement as well,
Speaker 1: an instance where a mistake was made and he put
Speaker 1: you on probation. I believe you termed it. Can you
Speaker 1: explain what that was? Answer? So, yeah, they had told
Speaker 1: me that I should not socialize with anybody that he
Speaker 1: spoke to. They're friends for not my friends. I didn't
Speaker 1: get invited to a party and I went with my
Speaker 1: husband and he found out the next day. And I
Speaker 1: definitely was more than just a reprimand it was very scary.
Speaker 1: He was very powerful. He had this aura around him.
Speaker 1: You sat up straight whenever he would talk or walk
Speaker 1: into the office. Miss Brignac, What did it mean if
Speaker 1: you were put on probation? Growth on probation? I think
Speaker 1: it was for a month, and you know, if I
Speaker 1: made any other errors, I would get fired Tolan. Question
Speaker 1: were you not working for the month that you were
Speaker 1: put on probation? Answer? No, I was there. I was working, yeah,
Speaker 1: and being very careful. Question what did probation mean then? Answer?
Speaker 1: I think he was just watching for if I made errors,
Speaker 1: I would get fired. Question and during your time working
Speaker 1: for mister Epstein was Miss Maxwell? Was she ever in
Speaker 1: a supervisory role to you? Did you ever work under her? Answer?
Speaker 1: I did not work under her. Question what did you
Speaker 1: understand her role to be? Answer? I thought she was
Speaker 1: the office manager. Question and how did she act towards
Speaker 1: you and the other staff? Answer? She was cordial, she
Speaker 1: was professional. We really didn't interact much when she would
Speaker 1: come into the office. She would sweep through, sit at
Speaker 1: her desk. She had an assistant. I didn't report to her,
Speaker 1: Miss Brignac. Question who answered to Miss Maxwell? Question? Oh,
Speaker 1: who is miss Maxwell's assistant? Answer? Oh, sorry, it changed
Speaker 1: over time. It was first redacted, and then it was
Speaker 1: I'm sorry redacted. No, was it redacted? I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: drawing a blank after redacted? Yes, redacted moved back to
Speaker 1: be her assistant and we hired a new receptionist. Question
Speaker 1: how long did you work with redacted? Answer? She was
Speaker 1: let go when he went to jail, so in two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine. Question why answer, we had to downside
Speaker 1: the office. Others were also let go? Question who else?
Speaker 1: Answer redacted? Who was the attorney's assistant at the time?
Speaker 1: I believe it was redacted who was a receptionist? And
Speaker 1: that might have been That might have been it. Question
Speaker 1: did you hear why they were let gos? Specifically? Answer?
Speaker 1: It was just that they were downsizing the office and
Speaker 1: it wasn't going to be that busy. Question in your
Speaker 1: role as secretary for mister Epstein, did you ever work
Speaker 1: alongside Richard Kahn? Answer? No? Question did you ever conduct
Speaker 1: work or assist Richard Kahn with his accounting operations. Answer
Speaker 1: no question did you ever work alongside Darren Endyke? Answer?
Speaker 1: I did a short period of time when he was
Speaker 1: in jail. Yes. Question what was your position working for him?
Speaker 1: Answer assistant? Question and what were you helping him with? Answer?
Speaker 1: Filing calls, making his calls, connecting him to people who
Speaker 1: was not nearly as exciting. Question and what time period
Speaker 1: was that? Answer? That was about two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1: It was when he went to jail, and then after
Speaker 1: he was released. I was still working a little bit
Speaker 1: for mister Endyke, but then he did get an assistant himself.
Speaker 1: Question and you mentioned traveling assistants of mister Epstein throughout
Speaker 1: the course of today's interview. Do you know who those
Speaker 1: traveling assistants were? Answer? Yes, you want me to tell
Speaker 1: you their names? Question if you know them? Please answer sure.
Speaker 1: When I first started, it was redacted, and then it
Speaker 1: was Sarah, and she stayed for a long time. Then
Speaker 1: there was redacted, redacted or redacted or redacted and redacted.
Speaker 1: Those are the ones that come to my mind. Question okay,
Speaker 1: thank you. And out of all those employees, was there
Speaker 1: any office gossip about him going to jail or any
Speaker 1: speculation about his affinity for young women or girls. Ms Groff. No,
Speaker 1: all right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here
Speaker 1: and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
Speaker 1: gonna pick up where we left off. All the information
Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
Speaker 1: description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode
Speaker 1: of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to
Speaker 1: pick up where we left off with Leslie Groff in
Speaker 1: her interview with Congress Mss Tolan asking the questions question
Speaker 1: and then just a few general questions about your compensation
Speaker 1: and benefits. I think you mentioned in a previous outBut
Speaker 1: or that you said in your opening statement that your
Speaker 1: starting salary was fifty thousand. Is that correct? Answer? Yes?
Speaker 1: Question what did it increase to or what was the
Speaker 1: maxi amount that you received? Answer? The maximount I believe
Speaker 1: was one hundred and fifty thousand, and that was only
Speaker 1: for one year and it went down. Question why did
Speaker 1: it go down? Answer? Well, it went down when he
Speaker 1: went to jail. Question and how were payments made to you?
Speaker 1: Were they direct from Epstein or through an Epstein own entity? Answer?
Speaker 1: I know what was direct deposit into my account. Question
Speaker 1: do you know if that was coming straight from mister
Speaker 1: Epstein or were you employed by an entity? Answer? I
Speaker 1: don't recall. I think it was an entity, but I
Speaker 1: was always considered, you know, from mister Epstein. Question did
Speaker 1: you or your family ever receive financial assistance with any
Speaker 1: of the following things as part of your compensation for
Speaker 1: your role? Any help with housing? Answer no. Question Any
Speaker 1: payments for medical appointments? Answer there may have been some
Speaker 1: medical and dermatology appointments. Yeah. Question any cosmetic surgeries answer
Speaker 1: cosmetic surgeries answer yes. Like did mister Epstein ever answer
Speaker 1: like botox? Question anything like that? Yes answer yes. Questioned
Speaker 1: and he paid for it? Answer yes he did? Question
Speaker 1: on multiple occasions. Answer I did that and acutane actually
Speaker 1: so acutane was definitely for a while. Yes. Question And
Speaker 1: did he pay for one of you or your family
Speaker 1: member's education answer my son's preschool? Question for how many
Speaker 1: years did that continue? Answer? It was three years? Question
Speaker 1: and then it stopped? Answer correct. Question Any other personal
Speaker 1: expenses that mister Epstein paid for you or your family?
Speaker 1: Answer he paid one time for me to go to
Speaker 1: Miami with a girlfriend of mine. Question Were you ever
Speaker 1: listed as a beneficiary of any trust owned by Jeffrey Epstein?
Speaker 1: Answer a beneficiary question? Yes? Answer was that the Butterfly
Speaker 1: Butterfly Trust. Question just if you remember ever being listed?
Speaker 1: Answer no, No question. Did you ever receive a payout
Speaker 1: from any trust owned by Jeffrey Epstein? Answer no. Question.
Speaker 1: Did you ever receive gifts from mister Epstein? Answer? I
Speaker 1: received haircuts. I think I received I got to go
Speaker 1: get makeup done one time, hair and makeup done, you
Speaker 1: know that sort of thing. Question did he ever pay
Speaker 1: for any cards for you? Answer? Oh, yes. He did
Speaker 1: pay for a car that I was able to use. Yes.
Speaker 1: Question were you only able to use it in your
Speaker 1: capacity as secretary Forum? Answer well, I could drive it
Speaker 1: wherever I want it at home. Once he went to jail,
Speaker 1: I had to give the car back. Question did mister
Speaker 1: Epstein also pay for gifts for other assistants? Answer? I
Speaker 1: think that other assistance had some nice things. Had a
Speaker 1: gym membership with the Equinox, and I think that was
Speaker 1: pretty everybody wanted to go to that gym, and he
Speaker 1: paid for Equinoxtion. Did you ever receive any personal loans
Speaker 1: from mister Epstein? Answer The only loans were the loans
Speaker 1: that we discussed for salary compensation. That was it. Question
Speaker 1: Did mister Epstein ever provide you or help you acquire
Speaker 1: real estate? Answer no question. Did mister Epstein ever set
Speaker 1: up a business or LLC in your name? Answer no
Speaker 1: question for you. Did you ever ask mister Epstein for
Speaker 1: any personal favors? Answer no question. Is there any other
Speaker 1: situation that we have not covered that you received from
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer I don't think so. Question any bonuses
Speaker 1: anything like that? Answer? Oh, I probably got bonuses five
Speaker 1: thousand here and there, and then maybe a year or two.
Speaker 1: I didn't get any bonus, but yeah, they were part
Speaker 1: of the compensation package, I guess. Question And what was
Speaker 1: the reason for those bonuses if they came? Answer it
Speaker 1: was a Christmas gift or a Christmas bonus. Question And
Speaker 1: in your opinion, would mister Epstein's generosity towards you or
Speaker 1: other assistants later become transactional? Did he expect things in return? Answer? Oh,
Speaker 1: no question. Even loyalty Was that part of the way
Speaker 1: he kept people loyal to him? Do you feel that way? Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't think that he was. I thought he was
Speaker 1: a generous person backner, she's asking about now, Groff, Oh, no,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, stepping back. I can see that would could
Speaker 1: be the case that he was doing that to control people,
Speaker 1: Miss Tolan. But at the time, did you feel like that,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff At the time, no, I thought he was
Speaker 1: just a generous person and didn't have a family to
Speaker 1: dote on, and I think that he like giving people gifts,
Speaker 1: Miss Brignac. Mis Groff, this is a vast amount and
Speaker 1: number of gifts that we've seen contributed towards you and
Speaker 1: other assistants, to include major cosmetic surgeries and the Mercedes Benz.
Speaker 1: Did you, in fact, whether you understood it to be
Speaker 1: intended to extract loyalty or not, did you in fact
Speaker 1: feel more loyal to him at the time because of
Speaker 1: these gifts, Groff, I thought they were very nice. I
Speaker 1: don't know that it made me feel more loyal. I
Speaker 1: just thought I thought it was very generous and a
Speaker 1: nice thing to do, Miss Toland. And then just a
Speaker 1: few general questions were almost to the end of the hour.
Speaker 1: I know you said these in your statement in your
Speaker 1: opening statement, and cover them a little bit, but just again,
Speaker 1: which Epstein residence is, did you visit during your time
Speaker 1: as his secretary. Answer his island three times, his Paris
Speaker 1: guest apartment once, and his mansion on seventy first Street
Speaker 1: after twenty eleven. Question and when you visited the island
Speaker 1: mister Epstein was not present for any of those visits?
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer? He was not present. I did
Speaker 1: not see him when I was on the island. Question
Speaker 1: and was he present when you visited his residence in Paris?
Speaker 1: Answer no question. Did you keep keys or did you
Speaker 1: have security access to any residences? Answer no question. Did
Speaker 1: you ever see any unusual artwork or photographs inside any
Speaker 1: of mister Epstein's homes? Answer? In seventy first Street, he
Speaker 1: had what we all know is the painting of President
Speaker 1: Clinton the Blue Dress. Question do you know anything about
Speaker 1: that painting? Answer like where it came from? No, I
Speaker 1: don't question, yes, where it came from? Why he had it?
Speaker 1: Answer I do not. Question do you know if President
Speaker 1: Clinton had any involvement in that painting? Did you ever
Speaker 1: see any nude paintings or photographs of young women in
Speaker 1: the house? Answer no question. And I think you mentioned
Speaker 1: this already, But did you ever travel on any of
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's private airplanes. Answer, not on his airplanes. I
Speaker 1: took the one helicopter ride. That was it? Question? And
Speaker 1: one was that answer? That was when I would go
Speaker 1: for a visit construction his construction project the one time questioned.
Speaker 1: And numerous victims have alleged that young victims were forced
Speaker 1: to carry out sex acts, and mister Epstein and his
Speaker 1: guest conducted group sex with girls on mister Epstein's private aircraft.
Speaker 1: It's even nicknamed the Lolita Express. Are you familiar with
Speaker 1: any of these allegations? Answer only after twenty nineteen, mister Tolin. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: end our hour right here. We'll go off the record. Question.
Speaker 1: We'll go back on the record now Groff is being
Speaker 1: questioned by redacted. Question. Miss Groff, I'd like to ask
Speaker 1: you a few more questions about the offices that you
Speaker 1: worked in. I know we talked about this earlier, but
Speaker 1: I would like to clarify some things. So, for the
Speaker 1: office on four fifty seven Madison Avenue, you worked there
Speaker 1: from two thousand and one to two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1: Correct answer, yes, question, and your office was next to
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's. But you wouldn't necessarily see people come in
Speaker 1: and out because the door your office door was sometimes closed.
Speaker 1: Correct answer That is correct, as well as there was
Speaker 1: a door prior to getting to my office that would
Speaker 1: go to his office. Question got it? Starting in two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine, you worked out of an apartment at
Speaker 1: three oh one E sixty sixth Street. Is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question?
Speaker 1: And you were there from two thousand and nine you
Speaker 1: think twenty eleven or twenty eleven? Answer that sounds right. Yes.
Speaker 1: Question did mister Epstein workout of three oh one East
Speaker 1: sixty sixth Street answer no question. And then in twenty
Speaker 1: twelve you went to a building on Lexington. Is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question?
Speaker 1: Do you know the address of that building? Answer? I
Speaker 1: think it was five seventy five Lexington. Question and you
Speaker 1: were there until twenty thirteen when you started working out
Speaker 1: of his home at nine East seventy first Street. Correct answer, yes,
Speaker 1: I believe those are around the proper dates twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Question, And mister Epstein worked at the Lexington office?
Speaker 1: Is that right? Answer? No? Never question? So who was
Speaker 1: at the Lexington office? Answer? Sure, So it was the
Speaker 1: accountant rich the attorney Darren Endyke, It was Harry Beller,
Speaker 1: the trader redacted the assistant to the accountant, and that
Speaker 1: was who was there at first, and then Henry Harry
Speaker 1: Beller left and we had an assistant to mister Dyke. Question,
Speaker 1: so the only two properties that you worked at that
Speaker 1: mister Epstein also worked at were the first one, four
Speaker 1: fifty seven Madison Avenue and then the last one, nine
Speaker 1: East seventy first Street correct answer correct, yes. Question. I'd
Speaker 1: like to ask you a few questions about Leon Black.
Speaker 1: Were you ever aware of mister Epstein paying women who
Speaker 1: had been in relationships with mister Black? Answer no question.
Speaker 1: Were you aware of mister Epstein being involved in negotiation
Speaker 1: of non disclosure agreements with women who had been in
Speaker 1: relationships with mister Black? Answer no question. To your knowledge,
Speaker 1: how many times did mister Black visit mister Epstein's island?
Speaker 1: Answer Iland, I didn't know he did visit mister Epstein's island.
Speaker 1: Question Okay, I'd like to ask you some questions about
Speaker 1: Jess Staley. To your knowledge, how many times did mister
Speaker 1: Staley visit mister Epstein's island? Answer I do not know.
Speaker 1: Question are you aware of mister Staley ever visiting Zora Ranch? Answer?
Speaker 1: I am not question, were you ever aware of mister
Speaker 1: Staley having sex with a member of mister Epstein's staff?
Speaker 1: Answer no question. We have asked you a lot of
Speaker 1: questions today about specific people. Is there anyone that we
Speaker 1: have not asked about that you have knowledge of being
Speaker 1: involved in any of mister Epstein's crimes? Answer no question.
Speaker 1: Is there anyone that you think the committee should talk
Speaker 1: to for its investigation to get a better sense of
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's crimes and his sex trafficking? Answer? Uh huh,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I mean maybe Alan Dershowitz. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you can, though, because he is an attorney,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question Why do you say Dershowitz? Answer
Speaker 1: because he was his attorney? Question anyone else? Answer no question.
Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you some questions about the investigation
Speaker 1: into mister Epstein that started in two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: You talked about this earlier, and you said you spoke
Speaker 1: to law enforcement in the fall of two thousand and seven.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer? I think it was August of
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, Is that right? Yes? Question? And
Speaker 1: you said when the FBI agents came to your home,
Speaker 1: you went upstairs and then you contacted Darren Endyke. Correct answer, Yes, Groff.
Speaker 1: Minority Exhibit H has been introduced. I would like to
Speaker 1: introduce as minority Exhibit H, this plea Proffer from the
Speaker 1: United States versus Jeffrey Epstein, which was released by the
Speaker 1: Department of Justice in January of this year. The Bates
Speaker 1: number is EFTA zero zero two one three three sixty nine.
Speaker 1: It's an excerpt of a larger document. So the relevant
Speaker 1: pages state that you said, on August twenty first, two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, FBI agents went to your home to
Speaker 1: speak with you about mister Epstein. The document says that
Speaker 1: after the FBI agents arrived, you excused yourself to go
Speaker 1: upstairs and then called mister Epstein. The document says that
Speaker 1: mister Epstein quote instructed Miss Groff not to speak with
Speaker 1: the agents. Is the plea proffer? Correct answer? I believe
Speaker 1: it is. I don't know how they would know that.
Speaker 1: I really believe that I called mister Endyke. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: call mister Epstein. Question. The document then says that mister
Speaker 1: Epstein quote applied pressure to keep miss Groff from complying
Speaker 1: with the Grand Jerry subpoena that the agents had served
Speaker 1: on her, and that mister Epstein quote warned Miss Groff
Speaker 1: against turning over documents and electronic evidence, were responsive of
Speaker 1: the subpoena, and pressured her to delay her appearance before
Speaker 1: the federal grand Jury in the Southern District of Florida.
Speaker 1: Do you have any memory of mister Epstein applying pressure
Speaker 1: to keep you from complying with the subpoena or warning
Speaker 1: you against turning over documents and evidence? Answer none, No,
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
Speaker 1: in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. All the information that
Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.