Speaker 1: You'll be away five seventeen.
Speaker 2: Do you want to report a UFO hanging in?
Speaker 3: We don't want to report every thirty one.
Speaker 4: Do you wish to report a.
Speaker 2: UFO over hey, we want to one of those.
Speaker 3: Data areas thirty one.
Speaker 2: Do you wish to find a report of any kind
Speaker 2: of it? I wouldn't know what kind of reports clouds,
Speaker 2: time areas thirty one me neither there. See if it
Speaker 2: was anybody above us to pass us, Like thirty seconds ago,
Speaker 2: we were sending one top of golf negative, okay, off
Speaker 2: fi the UFO. Yeah, it's murder ten nine o'clock. Yes,
Speaker 2: I'll passed over, I go. I don't know what it was,
Speaker 2: but it's from at least to three thousand feet above us. See,
Speaker 2: I passed right over the top of us ninety one one.
Speaker 2: You just called both to be be four.
Speaker 4: They're after staying the airplanes.
Speaker 5: He is.
Speaker 2: To God on an unidentified object, every liberty or call
Speaker 2: or calm on an unidentified flying object.
Speaker 1: Welcome to UFO Chronicles, a place where people share their
Speaker 1: experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had an encounter,
Speaker 1: I would like to be on the show. You can
Speaker 1: email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com.
Speaker 6: Hello everyone, and welcome to this show. How are you
Speaker 6: all doing. I'm Nick Hunter and this is the UFO
Speaker 6: Chronicles podcast. In this episode, we meet Kelly, calling from
Speaker 6: the state of Maryland, share her lifetime of encounters, from
Speaker 6: childhood visions of translucent beings with hollow eyes to a
Speaker 6: glowing football shaped light in the night sky that seemed
Speaker 6: to know it was being watched. Along the way came
Speaker 6: haunted apartments, weegi boards, and the moment she discovered the
Speaker 6: book Communion and realized she wasn't alone in what she
Speaker 6: had seen. These are stories of faith, fear, and persistence,
Speaker 6: woven through decades of strange experiences that blur the lines
Speaker 6: between spirits, aliens, and something far stranger. Kelly is up next,
Speaker 6: but first, if you enjoyed the show and you would
Speaker 6: like to help support the podcast on Patreon, you can
Speaker 6: do this for as little as one dollar a month.
Speaker 6: Head on over to patreon dot com forward slash UFO
Speaker 6: Chronicles podcast. You can also find a link in the
Speaker 6: description of this episode. Any help is very much appreciated.
Speaker 6: Now on with the show. Kelly, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3: Hi, Thank you.
Speaker 5: It is great to have you with us today and
Speaker 5: you're calling from the state of Maryland in the US.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm actually I spent most of my life in
Speaker 3: New York, New York City, and I grew up in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: So I was in New York City for thirty five
Speaker 3: years and I've been Maryland for a month, not very long.
Speaker 5: That's not long at all. And do you like it?
Speaker 3: Yes, miss, a completely different animal, as they say, but
Speaker 3: still you know, just as people. There's people here and
Speaker 3: that's they have people everywhere and ghosts.
Speaker 5: Ah that you're certainly right there. Wonderful. Okay, Now, Kelly,
Speaker 5: you have some experiences you're going to be sharing of us.
Speaker 5: Would you like to start at the beginning, please, ma'am.
Speaker 3: Yes. What I did was I made a list of
Speaker 3: some things that were important to me that happened and
Speaker 3: they were basically different times in my life. So I
Speaker 3: was born in nineteen sixty three, and so that just
Speaker 3: gives you a timeline of when these things would have happened.
Speaker 3: And so you know, I hesitate. I'm self editing because
Speaker 3: I don't want to offend people, because I just have
Speaker 3: my experiences and so my life, my philosophy in life
Speaker 3: is kind of based on my experiences. It's not based
Speaker 3: on anything. Like an example would be when I was four,
Speaker 3: a man I think I was at some sort of
Speaker 3: Bible school, like my parents dropped us off as like
Speaker 3: a babysitting service, and this man came up to me
Speaker 3: and he I think he was trying to present the
Speaker 3: gospel to a four year old, and he said, you know,
Speaker 3: if you're ever afraid or you need anything, you can
Speaker 3: call on Jesus like that, right, And I was four,
Speaker 3: So I was like, Okay, I got it. But then
Speaker 3: like they also told me there was a Santa Claus
Speaker 3: and an Easter Bunny and you know things like that.
Speaker 3: So I mean, you could have told me anything really right,
Speaker 3: But I decided to check it out one time and
Speaker 3: it worked. The idea is that it became like my
Speaker 3: go to or my paradigm for how I perceived my life.
Speaker 3: And I don't know that many Christians would acknowledge me
Speaker 3: as a Christian, but I think that my experience is
Speaker 3: that I believe in Jesus. But what happens is I
Speaker 3: realized when I was preparing for this that I have
Speaker 3: a whole timeline of experiences where Jesus just sort of
Speaker 3: showed up or helped or whatever like whatever. Jesus. I
Speaker 3: believe Jesus was an actual person, but I think that
Speaker 3: he had a very paranormal existence. And I started reading
Speaker 3: the Bible, and the Bible is very paranormal, right. I
Speaker 3: mean you can't even open it anywhere just randomly and
Speaker 3: not find some crazy paranormal reference, right, And so people
Speaker 3: ask the question, you know, are we alone? But I
Speaker 3: think many ancient texts, like even there's a man called
Speaker 3: Finkl and he works for the British Museum and he's
Speaker 3: the head of the Cuneiform collection, and he's been translating them, right,
Speaker 3: he reads corneiform, and he has something like nine hundred
Speaker 3: tablets and they're all what he calls exorcism tablets. And apparently,
Speaker 3: like at some time in the distant past, people had
Speaker 3: problems with the paranormal, like with spirits bothering them, and
Speaker 3: so they would go to a shaman or a priest
Speaker 3: or someone, and then they would write like a recipe
Speaker 3: or prescription on how to get rid of the spirit.
Speaker 3: And so these tablets were the prescription that these was
Speaker 3: written for these people, and then they would bury it
Speaker 3: under their home and that's why their excavators are finding
Speaker 3: these tablets is because they've been intentionally buried. It's a
Speaker 3: great book. It's called The History of Ghosts, Doctor Irving
Speaker 3: Finkel with an fi NK. I think it's L. E. L. Finkl.
Speaker 3: And I actually purchased this book because on Facebook in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, Irving Finkel promised that he was going to
Speaker 3: read a ghost story on Halloween from his book, and
Speaker 3: he did. He read one of the excerpts from the book,
Speaker 3: and I just thought, oh, I have to have this book.
Speaker 3: So these tablets are six, like between three and six
Speaker 3: thousand years old. I mean I might be misquoting that,
Speaker 3: but they're very old tablets, and they predate the Bible,
Speaker 3: they predate you know, lots of other and I haven't
Speaker 3: just read the Bible. But when I was in college,
Speaker 3: I was an art major, so I had the freedom
Speaker 3: to do research, right, and so something I'll just share
Speaker 3: because this was kind of the foundation. It became like
Speaker 3: the foundation of my life was when I was nine.
Speaker 3: And again this lets you know I wasn't a traditional
Speaker 3: Christian by any stretch of the word. But when I
Speaker 3: was eight, my grandmother passed away and so when I
Speaker 3: was shortly after that, she was buried on my birthday.
Speaker 3: So shortly after that, I was nine, and I had
Speaker 3: this experience where I woke up. It was nighttime, obviously,
Speaker 3: and my parents were not awake, so the house was
Speaker 3: dark and it was quiet, and so I was going
Speaker 3: to just go back to sleep, and everything was kind
Speaker 3: of fuzzy, like the darkness was kind of fuzzy, and
Speaker 3: I thought maybe it was my eyes, right, So I
Speaker 3: was kind of rubbing my eyes, thinking that I just
Speaker 3: wanted to clear my eyes and then go back to sleep.
Speaker 3: Except at some point I started to notice in the
Speaker 3: fuzziness of the room there was like movement, and I
Speaker 3: remember thinking, like, what is this? What? What is this?
Speaker 3: I'm awake and I don't understand what this is. And I,
Speaker 3: you know, grew up in a time period where we
Speaker 3: had my Favorite Martian and Bewitched and Scooby Doo, you know,
Speaker 3: so so I understood that weird things, you know, there
Speaker 3: were references in my culture to weird things, but I
Speaker 3: had never seen anything like what I was seeing. So
Speaker 3: they were kind of transparent and they looked like they
Speaker 3: were made up of the light of light particles. The
Speaker 3: fuzziness seemed like it was just light particles, and then
Speaker 3: as they came into focus, I realized I had no
Speaker 3: vocabulary for what I was looking at. And they had
Speaker 3: large dark eyes that, in my understanding were just hollow sockets,
Speaker 3: like just darkness, like hollow darkness, and they seemed to
Speaker 3: be discussing something, and I don't know. Someone said to
Speaker 3: me once maybe it was telepathy, but I understood that
Speaker 3: they were discussing me like there. Whatever they were, whatever
Speaker 3: it was being discussed, it had something to do with me.
Speaker 3: And the reason I'm telling you this is because this
Speaker 3: experience became like a foundation for me trying to figure
Speaker 3: out what's going on here and how does this fit
Speaker 3: into reality. So I remember being afraid, and I remember
Speaker 3: closing my eyes thinking it would disappear. I remember putting
Speaker 3: the blankets over my head, like all the typical things
Speaker 3: that you know that I did. And then I remember
Speaker 3: calling out to my parents and they didn't respond, and
Speaker 3: I remember thinking, Okay, I'm on my own here, so
Speaker 3: I don't understand what's going on. So I called on
Speaker 3: Jesus and they didn't leave immediately, but I could tell
Speaker 3: that the conversation was ending, like whatever whatever they were
Speaker 3: discussing was coming to an end, and one of them
Speaker 3: came over to me, and I think it made the
Speaker 3: motion of like kissing me good night and tucking in
Speaker 3: my blankets and then going back to the group, and
Speaker 3: then the whole thing disappeared. So I'm thinking I was
Speaker 3: trying to make sense of this, and all I could
Speaker 3: think of was, well, maybe that's what you look like
Speaker 3: when you die. And maybe the one that came over
Speaker 3: and kissed me good night was my grandmother, because that's
Speaker 3: something she would have done. And so the next day,
Speaker 3: when I was helping my mother with a project and
Speaker 3: I remembered this what happened, and I told her, I said, oh,
Speaker 3: I think Grandma visited me last night. And I expected,
Speaker 3: you know, an adult to say something along the lines
Speaker 3: of oh, you were probably dreaming, but instead my mother
Speaker 3: was very supportive and said, oh, we heard you, like
Speaker 3: when I called for them, they heard me. She said,
Speaker 3: we were hoping you would just go back to sleep,
Speaker 3: like you were having a bad dream. And so then
Speaker 3: when I explained it that way, using the paradigm that
Speaker 3: you know it was my grandmother visiting me, my mother said,
Speaker 3: you know, she was a very interesting person, and she
Speaker 3: basically said, someday, we can talk about it when you're older.
Speaker 3: But it was nine and I needed answers. So apparently
Speaker 3: my grandmother was very much into the occult or what
Speaker 3: people would call the occult, but it was also combined
Speaker 3: with her Christianity. So so for her it was like
Speaker 3: she had a Oiji board and tarot cards and a
Speaker 3: crystal ball and she would do readings for people and
Speaker 3: it was all a part of her culture, you know,
Speaker 3: it wasn't I don't think it was seen as anything
Speaker 3: negative or wrong. And so after this I had an
Speaker 3: opportunity to play with her Wigi board. It's not a game,
Speaker 3: and so I didn't encourage people to do that, but
Speaker 3: I mean they can. I mean, I don't know. For me,
Speaker 3: it was an opportunity where I was communicating with something
Speaker 3: in the spirit, realm, right that I was getting answers
Speaker 3: to questions that I didn't I was spelling words I
Speaker 3: didn't even know how to spell, you know, So it
Speaker 3: was very genuine, like I wasn't moving the plan set myself,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like its very real. So
Speaker 3: the idea is that I didn't understand that these two
Speaker 3: experiences could have been related, Like, it just never occurred
Speaker 3: to me that they were connected until many years later,
Speaker 3: and it is possible that they were connected. But whatever,
Speaker 3: I communicated with new things about both sides of my family.
Speaker 3: So I've been trying to piece the puzzle together. And
Speaker 3: so if I'm presenting puzzle pieces, it's just because I'm
Speaker 3: trying to piece the puzzle together. So the idea is
Speaker 3: that between the Irvning Finkel and another man called doctor
Speaker 3: Michael Heiser who passed away, but he was a Bible
Speaker 3: scholar and he was like in his final year of
Speaker 3: his doctorate, I think, and he read one of the
Speaker 3: Psalms I think it was SAW eighty two in the
Speaker 3: original language, and it just kind of popped out at
Speaker 3: him as, wait this, they're talking about the Divine Council.
Speaker 3: What's the divine council, you know? And so he wrote
Speaker 3: a book called The Unseen Realm based on his Bible
Speaker 3: research on the spirit realm, on supernatural and he wrote
Speaker 3: a book called It's Supernatural that is a kind of
Speaker 3: a shorter version of The Unseen Realm, which is very
Speaker 3: long and has a lot of footnotes. So the idea
Speaker 3: is that in the last five years, I've been piecing
Speaker 3: the puzzle together, like more and more pieces have been
Speaker 3: fitting together, so I kind of understand it. I have witchcraft,
Speaker 3: I mean, if it's okay to use that word in
Speaker 3: different directions. In my background, and so, I've actually seen
Speaker 3: multiple incarnations of what I would call aliens, like what
Speaker 3: people call grays, and I've seen them in different periods
Speaker 3: of my life. And so the reason I'm saying that
Speaker 3: is because when I was in college, my quest was
Speaker 3: for answers, and so I started reading every kind of
Speaker 3: religious book I could get my hands on looking for answers,
Speaker 3: like basically looking for an explanation for what I had seen,
Speaker 3: and I wasn't finding anything. Like I was, you know,
Speaker 3: having a lot of interesting social interactions with different types
Speaker 3: of people that I wasn't finding any answers. And also
Speaker 3: whenever I would share that experience with other people, I
Speaker 3: would just sort of get a blank look. And I
Speaker 3: even was told to get therapy, which I did, and
Speaker 3: the therapist basically would accuse me of like wasting their
Speaker 3: time or looking for attention or trying to get meds,
Speaker 3: you know, which I wasn't interested in any of those things.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to know, like what was that? What
Speaker 3: did I see when I was nine? Right, So it's
Speaker 3: a long story, but I did make it timeline of
Speaker 3: how things happened. But the idea is that in college,
Speaker 3: while I was doing all this research, I didn't really
Speaker 3: have too many experiences until I got into a relationship
Speaker 3: with a guy who eventually acknowledged to me that he
Speaker 3: was an atheist. He didn't believe in the paranormal, He
Speaker 3: didn't believe in my experiences. He didn't believe in anything
Speaker 3: really except people, you know, and socialism. And so I
Speaker 3: started to pray because I realized that my relationship with
Speaker 3: him was very stressful because we had two very different
Speaker 3: perspectives on life and I had become a young socialist
Speaker 3: and many of the members of our party get really
Speaker 3: angry when I would mention anything about the paranormal, like
Speaker 3: it was just such a to them, it was such
Speaker 3: a departure from their mission, you know. But it was
Speaker 3: still my bottom line, like I needed to know, you know,
Speaker 3: what was that and like, what were those beings that
Speaker 3: I saw in my room when I was nine. So
Speaker 3: the idea is that this boyfriend and I were in
Speaker 3: the process of reevaluating our relationship and one evening one night,
Speaker 3: it was two o'clock in the morning where we were
Speaker 3: leaving the art studio and we were walking home and
Speaker 3: I noticed that he was looking up, so I looked
Speaker 3: up to see what he was looking at, and there
Speaker 3: was a small football shaped light in the sky and
Speaker 3: it looked like as if you were shining a flashlight
Speaker 3: or a search beam up into the sky what it
Speaker 3: would look like if it hit a cloud, and it
Speaker 3: made like a little football shape light, but there wasn't
Speaker 3: Like I looked down at the ground looking for a searchlight,
Speaker 3: and there didn't seem to be a source, Like, there
Speaker 3: didn't seem to be a light source. So when I
Speaker 3: look back up at this little football shaped light in
Speaker 3: the sky, I also realized there were no clouds. And
Speaker 3: as I looked at it, I had this really strong
Speaker 3: feeling like it knew that I saw it. And then
Speaker 3: it did a flip and it disappeared. So in my mind,
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, well, that was strange, you know, And then
Speaker 3: my boyfriend said to me, did you see that? And
Speaker 3: I said yes, And then he said, did it feel
Speaker 3: like it knew you saw it like that? And I thought, yeah,
Speaker 3: like that's weird, right, But we never spoke about it again.
Speaker 3: Like to him, it was just, oh wow, it's just
Speaker 3: a weird thing that happened, and he believed that there's
Speaker 3: an explanation. Even today he would say, you know, well,
Speaker 3: there has to be an explanation. But to me, it
Speaker 3: was very strange and it very had an impact because
Speaker 3: I thought, how could it, looking at a small light
Speaker 3: in the sky make us both have the same feeling
Speaker 3: that it knew we saw it, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 3: that's very strange, right. So to me, it was strange.
Speaker 3: To him, it was just a blip basically. So one
Speaker 3: day we were walking to a party and he said
Speaker 3: to me, what if we buy a Wigi board. He said,
Speaker 3: if we can make the Wuigi board work, he said,
Speaker 3: maybe I could understand your experiences, and so I agreed.
Speaker 3: I said, okay, let's buy a Wigi board, you know,
Speaker 3: And we're on our way to a party and it's
Speaker 3: in a brand new building where one of our friends
Speaker 3: was one of the first tenants to move into this
Speaker 3: apartment building, so most of the apartments were not occupied.
Speaker 3: So when we made our way to the second floor
Speaker 3: or whatever it was, and we found his door outside
Speaker 3: his door, leaning against a wall was a Wichi board
Speaker 3: in a box, and my friend said, you know, oh look,
Speaker 3: you know so and so has a wiki board. We
Speaker 3: don't have to buy one. And I said, oh great,
Speaker 3: and I'm thinking that is great because I didn't really
Speaker 3: didn't want to buy one. So we took it into
Speaker 3: the party and we're, you know, having conversations, we're chatting
Speaker 3: with everyone and we're drinking beer, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: my ex my boyfriend said, let's try the Wiji board.
Speaker 3: And I said, okay. And I'm a little leery because
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, well, we've been drinking beer. Maybe it's not
Speaker 3: a good idea. But I'm kind of silently praying like, okay,
Speaker 3: let's hope this is a good thing. You know, it's
Speaker 3: not a bad thing. And so it didn't work. Like
Speaker 3: long story short, it did not work, and so my
Speaker 3: boyfriend said, that's okay, said at least we tried. And
Speaker 3: then he said to our friend, he said, what do
Speaker 3: you want me to do with your Ouiji board? And
Speaker 3: he said, oh, that's not mine. You brought that. He said, no,
Speaker 3: it's not ours. It was leaning against the wall outside
Speaker 3: your door. When we got here, and he said, oh,
Speaker 3: you better put it back. Someone will be looking for it.
Speaker 3: So my boyfriend put the wigi board back in the box,
Speaker 3: opened the door, leaned it back against the wall outside
Speaker 3: the door. There was no one in the hallway. He
Speaker 3: closed the door, we said good night. We opened the
Speaker 3: door to leave, and the Oigi board was gone. So
Speaker 3: the idea is another strange thing happened. And I mean
Speaker 3: to me it was strange, like I mean, I just
Speaker 3: kept saying, well, where did it go? And he insisted, well,
Speaker 3: someone must have came and taken it, but there was
Speaker 3: no time for anyone to take it, and there were
Speaker 3: no people living in the surrounding apartments. So to me,
Speaker 3: that was a very strange situation. And to him it
Speaker 3: was just again, it was just something that had an
Speaker 3: explanation that we just didn't have. So I started wondering, like,
Speaker 3: why to me is it strange? To him, it's just
Speaker 3: nothing really, And it just seems like that's how life is,
Speaker 3: because I have many of my experiences I was with
Speaker 3: other people, but to me it was there was something
Speaker 3: strange about it, and to them it was just well,
Speaker 3: you know, it just is what it is. I mean,
Speaker 3: I even lived in a haunted apartment with other people,
Speaker 3: and you know, like the microwave would turn on by itself,
Speaker 3: or lights would turn off and on, or just we
Speaker 3: would hear each other call each other's voices, and my
Speaker 3: friends would just sort of ignore or pretend that it
Speaker 3: didn't happen, and then later on acknowledge that it happened,
Speaker 3: but they would just say, well, we just don't acknowledge
Speaker 3: those things, like it was like a personal choice of
Speaker 3: theirs to just not acknowledge when strange things would happen.
Speaker 3: And I started to understand that many people had their
Speaker 3: own philosophies on these subjects, you know, and sometimes they
Speaker 3: were connected to some religion or some church or you know.
Speaker 3: But for me, it still didn't answer my questions because
Speaker 3: the thing I saw when I was nine still did
Speaker 3: not have I didn't have a vocabulary for them. Actually
Speaker 3: until I was twenty four. I think I was twenty
Speaker 3: four and I was in graduate school. I had gotten
Speaker 3: involved with a witch coven. One of my professors was
Speaker 3: the head of a witch coven, and she had heard
Speaker 3: me telling some of my experiences with some other students,
Speaker 3: and she said, oh, Kelly, you just have a gift
Speaker 3: and you just need some mentoring, and so she invited
Speaker 3: me to join this group, which reminded me very much
Speaker 3: of like going to a Bible study, except they used
Speaker 3: other books and some of them actually brought Bibles to
Speaker 3: the meetings. But the idea is, I guess that in
Speaker 3: the New Testament, there's the Holy Spirit is a part
Speaker 3: of I guess what Jesus did, and the Holy Spirit
Speaker 3: gives people gifts, and one of the gifts is discerning
Speaker 3: of spirits. I had never heard of that, and so
Speaker 3: here I was in this sort of witch coven and
Speaker 3: they were explaining this to me, and she said that
Speaker 3: I had the gift of discerning spirits and that she
Speaker 3: would help me with it. And meanwhile, like strange things
Speaker 3: started happening in people's homes on campus, in our studios.
Speaker 3: People were blaming me for it because I was the
Speaker 3: one who initially was talking about these things. I didn't
Speaker 3: know what to tell people like I was just as
Speaker 3: baffled as they were. And I was in a grocery
Speaker 3: store with a new boyfriend and he said to me,
Speaker 3: you know you're an artist, why don't you draw what
Speaker 3: you've seen? And as I looked to respond to him,
Speaker 3: there was a book on a shelf behind him, and
Speaker 3: on the cover of the book was one of the
Speaker 3: things that I had seen when I was nine, and
Speaker 3: it was the book Communion by Whitley Striever. That was
Speaker 3: the first time that I had a vocabulary, that I
Speaker 3: had an understanding that someone else had seen what I
Speaker 3: had seen. And then it turned out that other people
Speaker 3: had seen them too. Once we had something like a
Speaker 3: drawing to go with, it seemed like other people started
Speaker 3: expressing that they had seen these They're called grays the
Speaker 3: grays as well, and so we bought the book. We
Speaker 3: read the book, and then things started happening from the
Speaker 3: book to us. And that's whenever he broke up with me,
Speaker 3: because again for some reason, people were blaming me for
Speaker 3: these things happening. So long story short. Now that I
Speaker 3: had a vocabulary, I started doing what research I could,
Speaker 3: and I moved to New York City. And while I
Speaker 3: was in New York City, there was something called the
Speaker 3: Theosophy Society, and I think Whitley Strieber would speak there
Speaker 3: periodically and for a short period of time. I think
Speaker 3: he was Catholic, and he was associating what he saw
Speaker 3: with the spirit realm, and then I think he has
Speaker 3: since departed from that. And so the idea is that
Speaker 3: I called on Jesus and they left. So that was
Speaker 3: my sort of base note of like, well why did
Speaker 3: they leave? You know what I mean, like what did
Speaker 3: that have to do with Jesus? And so I spent
Speaker 3: thirty five years in New York City, and I moved
Speaker 3: probably fourteen times, and at least five of those apartments
Speaker 3: were haunted. And every time I lived in a haunted apartment,
Speaker 3: I would have strange experiences, but I would call on
Speaker 3: Jesus and then the experiences would end. And then at
Speaker 3: some point I got baptized, and once I was baptized,
Speaker 3: things from the spirit realm were no longer able to
Speaker 3: touch me physically. It created some kind of line in
Speaker 3: the sand, you know, or barrier. But the idea is
Speaker 3: that I still have I can still discern the presence
Speaker 3: of things. And when I was in twenty nineteen, I
Speaker 3: was living in a haunted apartment and it was interesting
Speaker 3: because I would hear things and then I would ask
Speaker 3: the neighbors about them, and then the neighbors would say,
Speaker 3: you shouldn't be hearing that because that person doesn't live
Speaker 3: here anymore. You know, or they would imply that maybe
Speaker 3: the person had passed away. And in that apartment, I
Speaker 3: also saw what I would call a Nordic white and
Speaker 3: it wasn't able to touch me, Like at some point
Speaker 3: it seemed like it tried to touch me and it
Speaker 3: wasn't able to And so I kind of assume that
Speaker 3: all these things are in the spirit realm. I don't
Speaker 3: have words for everything, but Michael Heizer explains that in
Speaker 3: Genesis six angels apparently mated with humans and they created
Speaker 3: a hybrid, and the hybrids when they died, their souls
Speaker 3: were stuck, like they can't go to shoal or wherever
Speaker 3: souls go. In the Bible, and according to the Book
Speaker 3: of Noah, which predates the Bible that the people read today,
Speaker 3: these spirits were harassing and influencing the behavior of the humans.
Speaker 3: And so Noah was basically asking God, like, what do
Speaker 3: I do about that? What can I do about that?
Speaker 3: And God said, well, just give the people a code
Speaker 3: of conduct, and the code of conduct will create a
Speaker 3: barrier between them and these spirits. And so there are
Speaker 3: other cultures that refer to this, the Hammurabi code, which
Speaker 3: predates I think the Ten Commandments, Noah's Seven Commandments predate
Speaker 3: the Ten Commandments, and there are other cultures that they
Speaker 3: have found, and so it makes me wonder if they
Speaker 3: weren't addressing the same issues, like maybe the spirit realm.
Speaker 3: I know that I have Muslim friends and Hindu friends
Speaker 3: who refer to them as jin. So. I was living
Speaker 3: in an apartment once and the landlady decided that she
Speaker 3: wanted to do some work on the apartment while I
Speaker 3: was still living there, and so she hired some men
Speaker 3: to come in and do drywall. And they were at
Speaker 3: one end of the apartment doing drywall, and I was
Speaker 3: at the other end of the apartment just hanging out.
Speaker 3: They came to me and said, you know, Kelly, were
Speaker 3: going to lunch and we'll be back in an hour.
Speaker 3: I said, you know, no problem. So they were back
Speaker 3: in an hour and then they came to me and
Speaker 3: they said, Kelly, we have a question, and we're not angry,
Speaker 3: but we'd just like to know why you did them.
Speaker 3: And I said, what did I do? And they went
Speaker 3: into the room where they had put up all this
Speaker 3: brand new drywall, and there was a blue crayon. There
Speaker 3: were two blue crayon lines that ran parallel the whole
Speaker 3: way around the just three inches down from the ceiling
Speaker 3: and three inches out from the wall, the whole way
Speaker 3: around the top of the wall. And they said, you know,
Speaker 3: we were just curious why you did that. And I said, oh, well,
Speaker 3: first of all, I'm short, I can't reach, and for
Speaker 3: me to do that, I would have needed a ladder
Speaker 3: and it would have taken forever for me to move
Speaker 3: the ladder and go the whole way around the room,
Speaker 3: because it was a very large room. And they said, well,
Speaker 3: how did it get there? And I said, and I
Speaker 3: didn't know what to say, so I just said, well,
Speaker 3: do you believe in ghosts? And I said this apartment
Speaker 3: is haunted and they kind of laughed. But then they
Speaker 3: said you mean gin because they were from India, and
Speaker 3: I said yeah. And then we started chatting about it,
Speaker 3: and they started telling these stories and I told them stories.
Speaker 3: And then we went back to the room where I
Speaker 3: had just been and there was blue crayon scribbled all
Speaker 3: over the wall. So I show, you know, kind of
Speaker 3: laughed at it. But at the same time, there's always
Speaker 3: this feeling of like, oh, this is very strange. So
Speaker 3: that was that apartment before we moved into that apartment.
Speaker 3: We found out that there was somebody making a film
Speaker 3: about something that had happened in the apartment, So we
Speaker 3: never did find out what exactly it was. It might
Speaker 3: have been something violent, but the idea is that no
Speaker 3: one in the neighborhood would ever tell us what happened.
Speaker 3: We just lived there for six years and just lived
Speaker 3: with whatever the craziness. Nothing was ever to my knowledge,
Speaker 3: nothing was ever malicious. But I did notice that my
Speaker 3: friends would argue. They would have terrible arguments and violent
Speaker 3: sometimes where they would throw things at each other and scream.
Speaker 3: After we moved out, they never or at least they've
Speaker 3: told me they'd never fought like that. Again, they were
Speaker 3: a married couple. So the idea is that I think
Speaker 3: that sometimes spirits can people negatively. When I moved out
Speaker 3: of that apartment, I moved into an apartment in Hell's Kitchen,
Speaker 3: New York City with two guys that were friends of mine,
Speaker 3: and again we would have these horrendous fights, like arguments
Speaker 3: over dumb things where we'd be screaming at each other.
Speaker 3: And then I moved out, but we had invisible dogs
Speaker 3: and then But what was interesting is, you know, we
Speaker 3: would all have the same impression of what was happening
Speaker 3: in the spirit realm. So like there were invisible dogs
Speaker 3: that would chase each other around the apartment and we
Speaker 3: would hear them. And then there was an older woman,
Speaker 3: an angry man, and a younger young man like a
Speaker 3: younger man. And so for three different people to have
Speaker 3: three different impressions of the exact same thing, you know,
Speaker 3: it's kind of interesting to me. And again, you know,
Speaker 3: you can keep looking for answers. But I moved out
Speaker 3: of that apartment because I didn't like the way we
Speaker 3: were behaving, Like I just felt like it was creating
Speaker 3: a negative there was something negative going on there. And
Speaker 3: I I did read a few years later a book
Speaker 3: called Haunted New York, and that apartment was listed in
Speaker 3: the book. And then a few years ago I googled
Speaker 3: the address and somebody actually had a blog hashtag my
Speaker 3: apartment is haunted. And so, I mean, it wasn't just us,
Speaker 3: you know, It is the point of my sharing that
Speaker 3: is that it wasn't just It wasn't just me, and
Speaker 3: it wasn't just them. So at some point I had
Speaker 3: a friend that passed away, and I didn't know that
Speaker 3: he passed away until you know a day later. But
Speaker 3: what happened was at the time that he would have
Speaker 3: passed away, I had an experience where I woke up
Speaker 3: and there was somebody walking around in my room in
Speaker 3: hard sold shoes and it was a male and they
Speaker 3: were making like a sound, like a deep sound, and
Speaker 3: I didn't know what that was, like I was. I
Speaker 3: just was petrified. I thought, who was in my room?
Speaker 3: Like why is somebody in my room? And I didn't
Speaker 3: even think to pray. I just thought, somebody's in my room,
Speaker 3: and I don't know why they're here, and I don't
Speaker 3: know if I should let them know I'm here. And
Speaker 3: then as it started to get daylight out and I
Speaker 3: heard the footsteps retreat over like over to where there
Speaker 3: was like a closet area, I realized that I wasn't
Speaker 3: sure if there was an actual person, and so I
Speaker 3: had my roommates come in and we all looked around
Speaker 3: and we couldn't find anyone. Then it was later that
Speaker 3: day that I found out that my friend had passed away.
Speaker 3: And one of the things about my friend. Two of
Speaker 3: the things was he was a baritone like he's saying,
Speaker 3: and he never wore sneakers you would call them trainers,
Speaker 3: I think, but he always wore hard sold shoes, and
Speaker 3: so that became like my next, Wow, what is that?
Speaker 3: How does that work? Like? Was that really him? Or
Speaker 3: was it you know, something else, like something imitating him?
Speaker 3: Or I have no idea.
Speaker 7: You don't always know you're in a cult. Not At first,
Speaker 7: it feels like truth, like purpose, like home. Then the
Speaker 7: rules change, the world gets smaller, and obedience becomes survival.
Speaker 7: Hidden Cults is the podcast that takes you inside the
Speaker 7: world's most disturbing belief systems. From the mass suicide of
Speaker 7: Heaven's Gate to the gas attacks of om Shinrikio to
Speaker 7: the fiery siege in Waco, Texas. We follow the rise,
Speaker 7: the ruin, and the survivors left behind. But the danger
Speaker 7: isn't over. We track cults still active in cities, villages,
Speaker 7: and online spaces around the world, spanning continence, languages, and
Speaker 7: belief systems. You'll hear real stories from those who escaped,
Speaker 7: and if you've lived through something like this, we want
Speaker 7: to hear from you too. Hidden Cults new episodes every
Speaker 7: week wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3: So I've been piecing this puzzle together and sometimes I
Speaker 3: think I know what's going on. But then I'll hear
Speaker 3: someone else share their story and I'll think, oh, maybe
Speaker 3: you know, maybe that's what's going on, you know. So
Speaker 3: I do know that the Fincal Book and the Heiser
Speaker 3: Book were two books that really helped me out a lot,
Speaker 3: because they seem to use ancient doctrines, like ancient documents
Speaker 3: to confirm that we do live, we are not alone,
Speaker 3: like there is a parallel universe of some type going on.
Speaker 3: Like the Bible says that human beings are made in
Speaker 3: God's image, and we're a flesh, We're a tent. The
Speaker 3: Paul refers to it as a tent that houses our
Speaker 3: spirit and our soul. And then if you choose, you
Speaker 3: can ask Jesus to give you his spirit to live
Speaker 3: with you, and so his spirit aligns with our spirit,
Speaker 3: and then we become like Jesus, who is like super supernatural.
Speaker 3: I mean, like there's this that he definitely was different.
Speaker 3: There was something different about him. And according to what
Speaker 3: I'm reading, is that he offers that to other people
Speaker 3: who if they want that, they can be like him.
Speaker 3: And I think that's kind of very supernatural, Like I
Speaker 3: don't think that's a religious philosophy. I think that's an experiential,
Speaker 3: supernatural thing that happens, and I think it confirms again
Speaker 3: that we're not alone, and that the Bible also talks
Speaker 3: about angels and different types of angels and principalities and
Speaker 3: you know, just all sorts of things that we have.
Speaker 3: I think we don't have a lot of information about.
Speaker 5: The Bible is just full of paranormal experiences.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I don't look at it as a religion.
Speaker 3: I look at it as answering a lot of my
Speaker 3: questions and also as a paranormal It's like a rules
Speaker 3: of engagement. I think they call it, like when you're
Speaker 3: in the military and they give you a rules of
Speaker 3: engagement when you're going When we were going into Afghanistan,
Speaker 3: our military were given like a rule of a list
Speaker 3: of rules. Here's how you engage with the people. And
Speaker 3: so I think that the Bible is the rules of
Speaker 3: engagement for the paranormal realm basically. And so I read Geronimo.
Speaker 3: Geronimo was one of the last tribal leaders to give
Speaker 3: in to the white occupation, like you know, whenever I
Speaker 3: guess the US was forming and they were trying to
Speaker 3: accommodate the tribal people, but they were also kind of
Speaker 3: they were trying to accommodate, it seemed that way, but
Speaker 3: they were also trying to just take over, you know,
Speaker 3: and put them into reservations. But I think I read
Speaker 3: Geronimo's his biography, I guess autobiography, and he had paranormal experiences,
Speaker 3: and he had tribe members who had what he would
Speaker 3: call a near death experience where they left their bodies
Speaker 3: and they went somewhere and then they came back. And
Speaker 3: he discussed that with our military. And he also said
Speaker 3: that he believed that the concept of forgiveness is more
Speaker 3: was more appealing to him than the concept of revenge.
Speaker 3: And he said the apache way was revenge, and he
Speaker 3: said the only thing he had to show for were
Speaker 3: three dead. He basically was always at war with the Mexicans,
Speaker 3: and so he was constantly getting revenge, and then they
Speaker 3: were getting revenge on him, and so he lost I
Speaker 3: think three wives and three sets of children to that lifestyle.
Speaker 3: By the time he, I guess, I don't know what
Speaker 3: to call it, I guess retired and consented to live
Speaker 3: on the reservation. So the idea is that he was warrior,
Speaker 3: but he came to this understanding that forgiveness was a
Speaker 3: better way. And so there's a man that I met
Speaker 3: who was a gang member in the nineteen fifties, and
Speaker 3: apparently he was so violent. He was such a violent
Speaker 3: person that I met other people who said that if
Speaker 3: you were in a movie theater, like if you paid
Speaker 3: to go see a movie and Nicki came in with
Speaker 3: his friends, you didn't stay. Like They literally said, you
Speaker 3: didn't want to be in the dark in a room
Speaker 3: with Nicki Kruz because he was just he was a
Speaker 3: loose cannon basically, and he was very angry. And so
Speaker 3: what happened. He was living this lifestyle in Brooklyn, New York,
Speaker 3: and this pastor went into his neighborhood and was basically
Speaker 3: preaching Jesus, and Nicki made fun of the man, like
Speaker 3: he just thought, let's just be as But he had
Speaker 3: an encounter with Jesus that he said was very real
Speaker 3: and it changed his perspective, and he said he came
Speaker 3: to understand himself that forgiveness was a better way of life,
Speaker 3: like whereas before his life was all about survival and
Speaker 3: revenge basically. And so I read one of Nicky's books,
Speaker 3: and I remember thinking, like, this is supernatural, Like this
Speaker 3: isn't like an intellectual thing. Like he didn't intellectually say, oh,
Speaker 3: that preacher's right, you know, and I'm going to join
Speaker 3: his team. If anything, he just thought the preacher was
Speaker 3: crazy and he wasn't interested in aligning himself with this guy.
Speaker 3: But then he had this paranormal experience that changed the
Speaker 3: way he saw life. And now he travels around the
Speaker 3: world like basically sharing that with other like gang members
Speaker 3: or people, and he's experienced what they call exorcism, where
Speaker 3: he's watched people change when I guess spirits left them.
Speaker 3: And I in New York City had a few encounters
Speaker 3: where people admitted to me they were demon possessed. And
Speaker 3: what's interesting is I can tell the story, but I
Speaker 3: can also I can take screenshots of texts where these
Speaker 3: people have basically said to me, oh, yeah, I have
Speaker 3: this spirit that I invited in and they helped me
Speaker 3: with my life. But sometimes they're very abusive. And so
Speaker 3: this one man that I met, he said, how can
Speaker 3: I get them to stop being abusive? And it reminded
Speaker 3: me of an interview I saw with Whitley Strieber where
Speaker 3: he said the same thing. He I guess at one
Speaker 3: point turned to Catholicism as an answer, like looking for answers,
Speaker 3: but realized that these aliens that had visited him were
Speaker 3: also living inside of him, and they were helping him,
Speaker 3: like to write his books and make money, and which
Speaker 3: is a great, you know, good a good thing for
Speaker 3: him and also his wife. And so what happened was
Speaker 3: I guess at some point, I don't know if it
Speaker 3: was in twenty twenty, but they had become abusive, and
Speaker 3: so he had to leave his home in California and
Speaker 3: go live in the UK for a short period of
Speaker 3: time to get away. And so I don't know, like
Speaker 3: if they can't travel. I watched something called I can't
Speaker 3: remember what it's called now. It was a TV series
Speaker 3: Stranger Things, and they talked about something called the hive mind.
Speaker 3: And it makes me wonder if spirits in the spirit
Speaker 3: realm don't have a hive mind, because when I was
Speaker 3: when I saw what I call the grays, they were
Speaker 3: communicating telepathically with me. I mean I understood things that
Speaker 3: I didn't know wouldn't have known. I mean, if they
Speaker 3: had told me, I would have I don't know like,
Speaker 3: I don't think I could have figured it out just
Speaker 3: by watching their hand movements. I think I understood things
Speaker 3: because there was some sort of telepathy going on. And
Speaker 3: so the idea behind the hive mind is that spirits
Speaker 3: maybe collectively can communicate through shared mind experiences. I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's just something recently that I heard and then I
Speaker 3: saw it on Stranger Things. But the idea is that
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, a guy I met who lived in
Speaker 3: West Virginia and I lived in New York, had heard
Speaker 3: me talk about the paranormal. He called me because he
Speaker 3: was he was looking for a girlfriend and he wanted
Speaker 3: me to go on vacation with him, and I thought, well,
Speaker 3: that's that's a kind of a commitment for a first date.
Speaker 3: So I was trying to do the I Love Lucy
Speaker 3: thing where I was like, how can I get out
Speaker 3: of this? And so I started to share with him
Speaker 3: some stories, like you know, about seeing the aliens or
Speaker 3: some of the haunted houses that I lived in, and
Speaker 3: some of the other experiences. He said, Oh, I don't
Speaker 3: have a problem with the paranormal, he said, but I
Speaker 3: just can't talk about it because I have three PhDs.
Speaker 3: And he said my and my job. You know, people
Speaker 3: would not respect me if they thought that I, you know,
Speaker 3: similar to what you had shared with me earlier. And
Speaker 3: so I said to him that I think that they're
Speaker 3: all related to the spirit realm, and he said that
Speaker 3: he did not agree, which you know, is fine. I mean,
Speaker 3: no one has to agree with me. But as we
Speaker 3: were hanging up the phone, I just prayed and I said, well, Jesus,
Speaker 3: you'll have to show him because I can't. You know,
Speaker 3: I don't know, and maybe I'm wrong, like maybe I
Speaker 3: need to be shown. So I say hung up with
Speaker 3: I went to sleep, and around three in the morning
Speaker 3: I woke up and there was like something walking through
Speaker 3: my room and it was dragging. It sounded like claws
Speaker 3: dragging on the ground. And my third first thought was
Speaker 3: I was just my roommate with her slippers. But then
Speaker 3: something leaned in in the darkness and growled at me,
Speaker 3: like near my face, and I thought, oh, it's something
Speaker 3: in the spirit realm and it's posturing. And so I
Speaker 3: just went back to sleep, not thinking about it. And
Speaker 3: then the next morning he texted me and he said, oh, no,
Speaker 3: we need to speak, and we need to talk. And
Speaker 3: it turned out that he had it what he thought
Speaker 3: was a dream, and in the dream, these aliens showed up.
Speaker 3: At first, he thought they were examining him, like as
Speaker 3: a specimen, and he was kind of like happy about it,
Speaker 3: like he thought, oh, this is cool. They think I'm
Speaker 3: worthy of examining. But then they started doing painful, torturing
Speaker 3: type things and they were laughing, and he said, at
Speaker 3: one point when he couldn't fight back, he thought, oh,
Speaker 3: they're torturing me, like there, this is not good, and
Speaker 3: this is a very negative experience, and he was kind
Speaker 3: of traumatized. And then he said the next morning when
Speaker 3: he woke up was when he texted me, and that
Speaker 3: was before he realized that he had cuts and bruises
Speaker 3: everywhere on his body, that they had been examining him,
Speaker 3: and that his pajamas were on the other side of
Speaker 3: the room in a place where he wouldn't have put
Speaker 3: his pajamas for any reason. So he was kind of
Speaker 3: in a panic, and his interest in me kind of
Speaker 3: waned as well. All of a sudden. It was kind
Speaker 3: of like again blaming me maybe for this happening. But
Speaker 3: I explained to him, you know, I said, it's up
Speaker 3: to you. How you perceive it and what vocabulary you
Speaker 3: choose to go with. But I say, I go with Jesus,
Speaker 3: like I just choose Jesus. I mean, that's just my
Speaker 3: go to. And so he got baptized, but until he
Speaker 3: got baptized, these spirits were attacking him. So he had
Speaker 3: black eyes, he had a concussion. He sent me photos
Speaker 3: of all these things, and then they started messing up
Speaker 3: around with electronics. It's a longer story, but he was
Speaker 3: living in a hotel because of his job. He was
Speaker 3: working on location, and it turned out all the other
Speaker 3: guys living in the hotel were having similar experiences and
Speaker 3: one of them had a dream and he said to
Speaker 3: my friend, he said, I had a dream last night,
Speaker 3: and he said, you were in it, and he said,
Speaker 3: this demon walked up to me, and the demon said,
Speaker 3: we're not here for you, meaning the man with the dream.
Speaker 3: He said, we're here for him, and they pointed at
Speaker 3: my friend and then he said to my friend, does
Speaker 3: that dream mean anything to you? And my friend said,
Speaker 3: I didn't know what to say. He said, because I didn't.
Speaker 3: He said, I didn't want to acknowledge it, because again
Speaker 3: he's like the head of the team. Thought he would
Speaker 3: lose respect. And then it turned out that all of
Speaker 3: them were having these experiences and they decided to do
Speaker 3: an exorcism on the hotel. My friend said that we
Speaker 3: all got bibles and these the Hindu people that owned
Speaker 3: the hotel were involved as well, and so according to him,
Speaker 3: everything stopped after that. But I know, I mean, I
Speaker 3: have to go back to the hotel and ask the owners.
Speaker 3: You know how things are now. But my understanding is
Speaker 3: Jesus said, if you clean a house and you don't
Speaker 3: put up barriers, then whatever you may leave will come back,
Speaker 3: and they'll just it'll be worse because they'll bring more
Speaker 3: of their friends. I've had. I've met people who do
Speaker 3: astral projection, mostly out of boredom. But my one friend
Speaker 3: was astro projecting once and a voice came up to
Speaker 3: him and said him, I'm homeless and I'm dead. Can
Speaker 3: you help me? And he basically the voice wanted to
Speaker 3: come home with him, like to his body, and my
Speaker 3: friend said, I didn't want that, obviously, so he just
Speaker 3: said I went back in and he told me he
Speaker 3: hasn't astral projected since. But the idea is that that's
Speaker 3: a part of life too, you know, I mean, these
Speaker 3: are all parts of our consciousness and our existence. Right.
Speaker 3: I have friends that have had near death experiences. I
Speaker 3: know four different people. Three of them I was related
Speaker 3: to who had near death experience. Is my one great
Speaker 3: uncle had three of them, you know, I mean, is
Speaker 3: it a dream or is it real? Or is it
Speaker 3: connected to the supernatural stuff in the Bible and all
Speaker 3: these other texts. I don't know, but I do have peace,
Speaker 3: and that's the best part, like for me, like I
Speaker 3: sleep like a baby, and like even the house I'm
Speaker 3: in right now has some spiritual issues. And I did
Speaker 3: see a very updated version of what I would call gray,
Speaker 3: but they seem to get upgraded, Like from what I
Speaker 3: initially saw that was transparent, the next thing I saw
Speaker 3: was a white being, and then the one I saw
Speaker 3: recently looked more had more details, like a grasshopper, almost
Speaker 3: like a very large grasshopper kind of I don't even
Speaker 3: know how to describe it. But are you familiar with
Speaker 3: the artist Geiger or Geeker g I g e Er.
Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, he did the design for the Aliens for
Speaker 5: the movies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I wonder like his designs, like I wonder
Speaker 3: if they are inspired by the spirit realm inspiring him,
Speaker 3: and he's not aware of it, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: Like he might think that he's making these things up,
Speaker 3: but they could be inspired and he might not even
Speaker 3: know it. Because the last thing I saw spiritually here
Speaker 3: in the house reminded me of one of his characters,
Speaker 3: you know, like as opposed to what I had seen
Speaker 3: when I was nine that was more primitive like it was,
Speaker 3: and I did some drawings. It's not easy to draw
Speaker 3: what you see because there's just so much more to
Speaker 3: the experience. It's not just like for me the first
Speaker 3: time I had the experience, it was more about the
Speaker 3: atmosphere in my room had changed, and then these beings
Speaker 3: were in the atmosphere kind of like an old television
Speaker 3: set that was out of focus kind of thing. But
Speaker 3: then when I saw one in twenty nineteen, again I
Speaker 3: was living in a hunted apartment, it was more opaque
Speaker 3: and it was white, and it was tall, and it
Speaker 3: reached out kind of I think it was going to
Speaker 3: touch me, but then it just sort of of disappeared
Speaker 3: or exploded or something, you know, and so, and I
Speaker 3: have not had anything touch me since I've been baptized.
Speaker 3: I was also living in a house where a man
Speaker 3: was practicing something called Strega, which is Italian witchcraft, and
Speaker 3: so there always seems to be some kind of interact,
Speaker 3: someone interacting with the with the paranormal. When I experience
Speaker 3: things like my grandmother or you know, because I don't,
Speaker 3: I don't think I and like I don't call on
Speaker 3: things or try to contact anything because it's just not
Speaker 3: I don't think it's fruitful for me, like it would
Speaker 3: just be I don't know, like I don't, I don't
Speaker 3: have a hard time trusting people, and then to have
Speaker 3: to trust spirits on top of that, I also was
Speaker 3: diagnosed with autism, and I joined an autism community, and
Speaker 3: I realized many people on the autism spectrum have these experiences,
Speaker 3: and many of them won't talk about it. Like I've
Speaker 3: been researching freemasonry. I have friends who are Freemason and
Speaker 3: they openly admit to me that they have spirit guides,
Speaker 3: like it's a part of the process when you become
Speaker 3: a Freemason is that you're offered the option to have
Speaker 3: a spirit guide. And the native of people, the tribes
Speaker 3: they like, I guess they like to be called tribal people.
Speaker 3: But I watched a series of documentaries. In twenty twenty two,
Speaker 3: a man went around interviewing all the tribes like just
Speaker 3: you know, chatting with them, and the one thing they
Speaker 3: all seem to have in common is that there's an
Speaker 3: uptick in the paranormal and I forget which if it
Speaker 3: was the Navajo nation. They said that the that the
Speaker 3: Anasazi have been provoked is the way they said it,
Speaker 3: and that they actually outlawed the practice of spirit guides
Speaker 3: because what they discovered was that people with spirit guides
Speaker 3: they made great warriors in battle, but then eventually the
Speaker 3: guides turned on the tribe. And so the idea is
Speaker 3: that spirit guides or the skin walkers, or that's another
Speaker 3: I guess another term is they turned on the tribe,
Speaker 3: and so the tribal peoples outlawed that practice, and so
Speaker 3: many of them are blaming non native people are using
Speaker 3: LSD to interact with the spirits, and they believe that
Speaker 3: that's what's causing this disturbance in the spirit realm, and
Speaker 3: they're not necessarily they don't promote it, like they're not
Speaker 3: happy about it. And so I do know friends that
Speaker 3: take ayahuasca, and I have had friends on LSD who
Speaker 3: have seen like had group hallucinations. When I was in
Speaker 3: graduate school, I think I mentioned that I was part
Speaker 3: of a witch coven and one night I lived on
Speaker 3: a lake, and one night a bunch of undergrads had
Speaker 3: taken LSD together and they came up to the lake,
Speaker 3: like just to hang out and look at the full moon.
Speaker 3: But they all collectively saw something rise up out of
Speaker 3: the water and it swooped down at them, which made
Speaker 3: them all realize that they were not It was not
Speaker 3: a hallucination. They were all seeing this thing swoop down
Speaker 3: at them. And so they came to my house where
Speaker 3: I was living, and they were knocking on the door
Speaker 3: at three in the morning, and they also knew that
Speaker 3: I would understand. And the idea was when I shared
Speaker 3: that story in class the next day, my professor, who
Speaker 3: was the head of the witch coven, said, oh, they
Speaker 3: saw the demon of the lake. And she said it
Speaker 3: very matter of factly, you know, it wasn't And to
Speaker 3: her it was amusing because she just thought it was
Speaker 3: amusing that these undergrads, you know, kind of accidentally interacted
Speaker 3: with this demon that lived in the lake. And they
Speaker 3: all described the same thing. They all said it had,
Speaker 3: you know, red eyes, it had a green head, it
Speaker 3: had wings of tail. They used different terms one set
Speaker 3: a dragon, one set of beasts, you know, like they
Speaker 3: had different descriptive words or they had different I guess vocabulary,
Speaker 3: but they all used the same descriptive words when it
Speaker 3: came to coloring and size. And so I've had a
Speaker 3: very long, strange trip. I mean, I'm sixty two, so
Speaker 3: I know I'm a little older than you are. That
Speaker 3: the idea is, I believe that you had experiences and
Speaker 3: something that I've found very helpful is interacting with other people.
Speaker 3: Like there are zoom group, you know, meetups, and then
Speaker 3: on Facebook, I belong to something called peer and Normal
Speaker 3: and it's peer peer like your peers, and it's a normal,
Speaker 3: so it's paranormal. People have experiences that get together and
Speaker 3: share things on Facebook page, and I think I think
Speaker 3: it's just helpful move fun. I believe also has support
Speaker 3: groups that they you know, I haven't found any specifically
Speaker 3: for people who maybe believe in Jesus. But I've been
Speaker 3: kind of rejected by the church crowd, which I think
Speaker 3: is just ignorance on their part, like they just or
Speaker 3: fear like because I think a lot of Christians that
Speaker 3: I've met are are taught that they shouldn't interact with
Speaker 3: spiritual things. But the idea is that Jesus wants to
Speaker 3: interact with us spiritually, so like, if he's giving his
Speaker 3: Holy Spirit to me, that's a spiritual interaction. And if
Speaker 3: I'm communicating with him, as it says in John fourteen
Speaker 3: and also in Isaiah eleven, he's communicating with me. And
Speaker 3: so I've had these really great experiences where in twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: I was walking in Times Square and there was a
Speaker 3: young man walking next to me, and Jesus said, this
Speaker 3: sounds crazy when I say that, but he said, you know,
Speaker 3: speak to that young man. And I remember thinking, oh, no,
Speaker 3: he's going to think I'm creepy because I'm old, you know.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to speak to him. And then he
Speaker 3: started speaking with me, and I thought, okay, here we go.
Speaker 3: Let's see where this goes. So I asked him, I said,
Speaker 3: do you believe in God? And he said he wasn't
Speaker 3: sure that he was kind of thinking about it, but
Speaker 3: he wasn't sure. And then I said, well, do you
Speaker 3: believe in aliens? And he said, oh my god, why
Speaker 3: did you ask me that? And I just said I
Speaker 3: think Jesus wanted me to ask you that, and he said,
Speaker 3: can I tell you a story? And so for an
Speaker 3: hour and a half he told me how he grew
Speaker 3: up in Brooklyn and when he was nine, he had
Speaker 3: this experience. And he's not the first person to tell
Speaker 3: me this, but in the nineteen nineties that would have
Speaker 3: been when this happened. He woke up and his room
Speaker 3: was light like daylight, and he thought it was the
Speaker 3: next day, so he got up and when he looked
Speaker 3: out the window, it was dark. But he didn't remember
Speaker 3: anything after that, and then he started having these experiences
Speaker 3: where he started seeing these beings with big eyes like
Speaker 3: I saw. And he told his parents and they took
Speaker 3: him to a psychiatrist, and the psychiatrist put him on medication,
Speaker 3: and he said the medication ruined his life, basically, And
Speaker 3: he said, from age eleven to sixteen, he was on
Speaker 3: medication and he hated it. So he eventually left home
Speaker 3: and started living in the streets and he became gotten
Speaker 3: addicted to street drugs. And when I met him in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, he was twenty eight and he was eight
Speaker 3: months sober. And I'm having this discussion with him, telling
Speaker 3: him that I saw them too, right, I just didn't
Speaker 3: end up on drugs. And I said that I just
Speaker 3: call on Jesus and they go away. And he said,
Speaker 3: you know, my aunt tried to tell me that I
Speaker 3: could call on Jesus, but my parents didn't believe in that,
Speaker 3: so they believed in drugs. And he said, I think
Speaker 3: you just gave me my life back, like he like,
Speaker 3: and then this is so crazy. But like a year later,
Speaker 3: I met someone. I was telling them what I just
Speaker 3: told you, and they said, Kelly, I know that guy,
Speaker 3: and they knew they knew his name, and it turned
Speaker 3: out they lived in his building. He lived in their building,
Speaker 3: and he said, he tells everyone that story about meeting you,
Speaker 3: and he's doing great, and like he's he's you know,
Speaker 3: he's working and had a construction job where he was
Speaker 3: working with unions, which is a very good thing. But
Speaker 3: the idea is that people, if they don't have a
Speaker 3: vocabulary and they don't know what they're experiencing, it can
Speaker 3: lead to all sorts of very negative experiences. Right, And
Speaker 3: that's one of the reasons I decided I want to
Speaker 3: be more vocal, especially in twenty twenty. Like I just
Speaker 3: there was so much negative things going on in New
Speaker 3: York City. That one man tried to take my back
Speaker 3: He tried to steal my backpack, tried to take it
Speaker 3: from me. I said that I don't have any money.
Speaker 3: I said, but I can pray for you. And that
Speaker 3: like opened up the conversation. And then I shared with
Speaker 3: him how I saw Aliens, you know, when I was
Speaker 3: a kid. And then he shared a story with me.
Speaker 3: And here's a man who went from he was going
Speaker 3: to steal my backpack to telling me his own experience,
Speaker 3: like his own life experience. And so you know, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of damaged people that are damaged because they
Speaker 3: don't have the proper perspective, right, I mean, to process
Speaker 3: their experiences in a positive way. I've met people from Argentina.
Speaker 3: I've met people from Bangladesh. I've met Muslims. I've met
Speaker 3: all people from different religions. I lived on East ninety
Speaker 3: nine Street in Harlem. I met so many people. I
Speaker 3: would sit on my stoop and read the Bible and
Speaker 3: people would just stop and chat with me and tell
Speaker 3: me their stories, and then I would I would share
Speaker 3: my experiences. And there's just so many people having these experiences.
Speaker 3: I mean, York City, East Harlem, you know, and like,
Speaker 3: I think it's one of those things where it's an untapped,
Speaker 3: an untapped story base. You know, you could probably just
Speaker 3: walk down the street and speak with anyone and they're
Speaker 3: going to give you something. Maybe this is a support group.
Speaker 3: Like maybe I've been binging on your podcasts and I
Speaker 3: still haven't heard them all. And I'm familiar with many
Speaker 3: of the Pennsylvania locations that people have shared, and in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 3: I've had experiences. I really believe that the house they
Speaker 3: grew up in is in a skinwalker territory because many
Speaker 3: of my friends that I grew up with have stories
Speaker 3: they won't tell them. I've seen a bigfoot probably, I
Speaker 3: mean I didn't know that that's what it was, but
Speaker 3: apparently seeing a large monkey walking around the woods behind
Speaker 3: our house counts as a bigfoot. And I remember other
Speaker 3: stories of people out driving and they'll say they saw
Speaker 3: something cross the road and it looked like a human.
Speaker 3: And like, the more I tell stories, the more I
Speaker 3: hear stories, like the more people share, and it just
Speaker 3: validates the reality that these things are all interconnected in
Speaker 3: some way.
Speaker 4: Do you have an interest in the paranormal then you'll
Speaker 4: love the unexnetwork dot com. The AX is your streaming
Speaker 4: audio and video for everything supernatural, strange and mysterious like UFOs, Bigfoot,
Speaker 4: Ghost and so much more from host like Clyde Lewis,
Speaker 4: Whitley Streeber, Mikah Hanks, and Christina Gomez. Visit the unexnetwork
Speaker 4: dot com show page for a complete list of all
Speaker 4: the paranormal programs you'll find on the AX. Be sure
Speaker 4: to follow us on Twitter for updates at k u NXDB.
Speaker 4: Follow our Facebook group ONEX network, by the podcast on
Speaker 4: her Spotify, iHeart Audible and Apple podcast. It's Time, It's
Speaker 4: ew is the X.
Speaker 3: And it's one of those things too. Where I met
Speaker 3: some Muslim men who were doing an outreach in the
Speaker 3: neighborhood where I was living, and they were handing out Korans,
Speaker 3: and I had read the Koran many years ago, so
Speaker 3: I stopped to chat with them and I shared my
Speaker 3: experience with them, and they had both had the same
Speaker 3: experience where they had seen these beings with large, you know,
Speaker 3: dark eyes and long, skinny arms. And they said that
Speaker 3: the one guy actually left the Catholic Church and became
Speaker 3: a Muslim because the emon or whoever was departed. I
Speaker 3: think he said emon I acknowledged at least acknowledged his experience,
Speaker 3: and he said, they you know, he still sees these beings,
Speaker 3: but he said that just the acknowledgement that he wasn't crazy.
Speaker 3: And like I've been in churches that would literally say, oh,
Speaker 3: Satan isn't real, Like it's just a metaphor, you know,
Speaker 3: And like my word satan really just means accuser. And
Speaker 3: like Jesus referred to spirit beings as deceivers, and so
Speaker 3: the idea is that it's not They're not all deceivers.
Speaker 3: They're not all Satan's because there's also Cherubim and Seraphim
Speaker 3: and all these other things. And I actually after my
Speaker 3: father passed away, I had two experiences where I saw
Speaker 3: what may or may not have been angels. I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know, because I kind of feel like things
Speaker 3: in the spirit realm have this ability to cloak, like
Speaker 3: they can appear how however they want to appear. And
Speaker 3: the reason I say that is because this house I'm
Speaker 3: living in right now, I've seen I saw a cat,
Speaker 3: and I have three cats. There's three cats living here
Speaker 3: with me. I know what they look like. This fourth
Speaker 3: cat showed up one day it was terrorizing one of
Speaker 3: the other cats and there isn't and we don't have
Speaker 3: a cat. It looks like that, And then the other
Speaker 3: two where it's kind of sitting wide eyed, you know,
Speaker 3: like wondering, and I know that sometimes something chases will
Speaker 3: chase a cat and there's nothing behind me, or like
Speaker 3: I said, I saw what I believe was a Geiger alien.
Speaker 3: And then when I first came to this house like
Speaker 3: twenty years ago to visit, every night when everyone would
Speaker 3: go to sleep, would go to bed. After everyone went
Speaker 3: to bed, we would hear somebody go back down the stairs.
Speaker 3: And at first I thought it was just one of
Speaker 3: the other people going back down the stairs, until at
Speaker 3: breakfast one day somebody said do you hear that too?
Speaker 3: I And then I said, oh, I hear it too,
Speaker 3: And I said, that's not you going that's not you
Speaker 3: guys going back down the stairs. I said no. And
Speaker 3: then the smoke detectors would do this thing where they
Speaker 3: would chirp in like a sequence, and I said, well,
Speaker 3: you just need to change the batteries and they said, oh,
Speaker 3: they're brand new batteries, and three of them are brand
Speaker 3: new smoke detectors, but they just do this chirping thing
Speaker 3: where they'll like chirp in like a harmony or something.
Speaker 3: So the idea is that whatever's in this house does
Speaker 3: things like there's an old dresser in the living room.
Speaker 3: It's probably will be over one hundred years old, and
Speaker 3: the drawers kind of stick. But sometimes when I go
Speaker 3: down stairs in the morning, the drawers are open, and
Speaker 3: so I know, the cats can't open them because they're
Speaker 3: they stick. You know, you have to kind of work
Speaker 3: at them to get them open. Little things like that,
Speaker 3: you know. And so I don't know. I assume it's
Speaker 3: just one spirit, but who knows, Like maybe there's others
Speaker 3: or maybe they invite others to come in, and you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like that's the kind of the the
Speaker 3: unknown factor is there's no way to pin them down
Speaker 3: and say, oh, yeah, that's what that was, or you know.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I took comfort in the
Speaker 3: idea that the Bible says that people will have discernment
Speaker 3: of spirits, like it's a gift, you know, So it's
Speaker 3: not something to be ashamed of, and it's something that
Speaker 3: like any gift, you know, you can receive it and
Speaker 3: then you can work with it, I guess, or develop it,
Speaker 3: which is what I mean. I could use her name.
Speaker 3: She passed away recently, but excuse me. Donna was the
Speaker 3: head of this group, and she basically said that we
Speaker 3: could cultivate, you know, or mentor each other or grow.
Speaker 3: And I thought that makes a lot of sense. That
Speaker 3: makes more sense than saying it's not real or just
Speaker 3: pretending that it's not real. And I have so many
Speaker 3: stories and I started writing them because I have a
Speaker 3: friend who's an atheist, and I guess it was twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: He said to me, I know that what you believe
Speaker 3: is sort of like Christianity. He'said, could you write about
Speaker 3: it for me? Because I'm becoming very hateful towards Christians
Speaker 3: And he said, I don't hate you. And so I
Speaker 3: started sharing my stories with him, and he said that
Speaker 3: he's becoming a hopeful agnostic and that he was no
Speaker 3: longer angry. But the idea is that once I started writing,
Speaker 3: I filled I think four or five composition notebooks with
Speaker 3: long hand writing. And I didn't realize I had so
Speaker 3: many experiences and it was very I've had dreams that
Speaker 3: come true. I guess they call that prophetic dreams. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's just like Bigfoot. I guess I've seen little toarlely lights,
Speaker 3: just all kinds of just things. On one time, I'm
Speaker 3: home visiting my parents and I saw these little towirly
Speaker 3: lights in the backyard. And then it turned out on
Speaker 3: coast to coast that all over Pennsylvania people were reporting
Speaker 3: seeing these little towirly lights and on the news they
Speaker 3: were saying that it was lunar moths hatching. But I
Speaker 3: didn't see a body and I didn't see wings, like
Speaker 3: I just saw this. It just looked like a little light,
Speaker 3: like like a flashlight in the dark, you know, without
Speaker 3: the flashlight, like just the tip of the flashlight, like
Speaker 3: swirling around in the in the darkness. And so I
Speaker 3: don't know what that was, but it's interesting, you know.
Speaker 3: I just I mean for me, I just pray, I
Speaker 3: just because I guess it's like my go to is
Speaker 3: Jesus said, test all spirits. Basically, I think Jesus said
Speaker 3: it or Pulse said it. But the idea is that
Speaker 3: you test them because you don't want something negative, you know,
Speaker 3: like my friend had where they had bruises and cuts
Speaker 3: and they were torturing him. Obviously, my solution for that
Speaker 3: would have been I would have called on Jesus, but
Speaker 3: he didn't know that. So and then eventually he got
Speaker 3: baptized and they stopped being able to touch him, which
Speaker 3: for some reason drew a line draws a line in
Speaker 3: the sand. Maybe for some people, I don't know. Like again,
Speaker 3: I'm just sharing my experience because maybe someone will have
Speaker 3: another experience. I know one of your first podcasts there
Speaker 3: was a tribal woman sharing her experiences and she was
Speaker 3: talking about healing. And one time I fell off of
Speaker 3: a porch and I heard a loud snap and I
Speaker 3: had pain shoot up through my leg, and I knew
Speaker 3: I was in trouble, Like I knew that I did
Speaker 3: some damage on my foot, and I at the time
Speaker 3: had been praying about something else, and I just put
Speaker 3: my hands around my foot and I said, God, this
Speaker 3: can't happen. I have all these things I have to do,
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to start a new job tomorrow, I don't
Speaker 3: have insurance. And I just started saying all these reasons
Speaker 3: why this was a bad idea, and all the pain left.
Speaker 3: It just left my foot completely. My leg, my leg,
Speaker 3: my foot were fine. And I thought, oh wow. And
Speaker 3: I remember saying like, did you just heal me? And
Speaker 3: like I said that to God at the time, I
Speaker 3: just thought God, and I said, I guess. And so
Speaker 3: I was wearing long pants with socks and a shoe,
Speaker 3: and I didn't actually see my foot. And so later
Speaker 3: on that day someone called me and they said, hey,
Speaker 3: let's go out tonight. And I took a shower, and
Speaker 3: I put on like summer clothes, like a little pair
Speaker 3: of sandals and a denim skirt. And I never paid
Speaker 3: attention to my foot because it didn't hurt anymore. I'd
Speaker 3: forgotten that i'd fallen off the porch. And when we
Speaker 3: got to the bar, this guy who was standing at
Speaker 3: the bar came running over to me and he said,
Speaker 3: oh my god, what did you do to your foot?
Speaker 3: And I looked down in my ankle and my foot
Speaker 3: were all purple, black, blue, red, like every color bruising
Speaker 3: it could imagine. And I said, oh, I fell off
Speaker 3: the porch today. I forgot about that. And I'm wiggling
Speaker 3: my foot around, you know, And I said, but I prayed,
Speaker 3: and it's okay, and I'm showing this guy that my
Speaker 3: foot's okay, and he starts screaming at me. He said,
Speaker 3: stop doing that. Stop doing that. Your foot is broken.
Speaker 3: He said, your foot is broken. I just spent an
Speaker 3: entire semester studying bruises and your foot is broken. Please
Speaker 3: stop doing that. You need to see a doctor. And
Speaker 3: he would not leave me alone until I promised that
Speaker 3: I would see a doctor. But he was so convinced
Speaker 3: that I was in big trouble because of all the bruising,
Speaker 3: and the bruising lasted for about six weeks. Like everywhere
Speaker 3: I went, people would ask me, well, what did you
Speaker 3: do to your foot? But my foot was fine, like
Speaker 3: I was. I mean, as far as I was concerned,
Speaker 3: it was healed. That was fine, and I wasn't impeded
Speaker 3: in any way. But everywhere I went people saw the
Speaker 3: bruising and they would ask me what I did, and
Speaker 3: I would explain, you know, to tell the story. So
Speaker 3: the idea is that I do. I believe in miracles,
Speaker 3: I guess you could say, and I experienced them. But
Speaker 3: at the same time, I can't put it in a box,
Speaker 3: and like I can't put it in a bottle and
Speaker 3: sell it like sell it to people. But the idea
Speaker 3: is that I guess I can share my experiences and
Speaker 3: encourage people. Jesus said, if you seek, you will find,
Speaker 3: and so I think that's probably good advice because I mean,
Speaker 3: in theory, I found him. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: other people might find what they're looking for too, So
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, you can't argue truth, I think, right,
Speaker 3: And where there's peace, I think there's truth. And something
Speaker 3: that I just am so thankful for is the peace aspect,
Speaker 3: because like there was a time when I was afraid
Speaker 3: to go to sleep. There was a time when any
Speaker 3: time someone died, I was afraid they were going to
Speaker 3: show up in my room and or just you know,
Speaker 3: I was afraid to move into an apartment where there
Speaker 3: was going to be you know, paranormal things. The apartment
Speaker 3: I lived in in Hell's Kitchen was probably the most
Speaker 3: violent experience, and it was the most haunted. And like
Speaker 3: the other two guys I lived with, they wouldn't even
Speaker 3: speak to me when I moved out because they were
Speaker 3: hoping that I was going to do an exorcism. Yes,
Speaker 3: like they had gone to a priest and the priest
Speaker 3: gave them the phone number of a psychiatrist and some
Speaker 3: holy water, and this apartment was needed more than a
Speaker 3: psychiatrist in Holy Water. Like, I don't even know if
Speaker 3: I think the building was torn down. I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: It's hard to tell in New York City, And I
Speaker 3: often thought of like sending a letter to that address
Speaker 3: and just saying, hey, is your apartment still haunted? You know,
Speaker 3: or like what kind of what's going on there? But
Speaker 3: I have a friend who's an exorcist, like he does
Speaker 3: home exorcisms, and I actually met him through Chris Lutz,
Speaker 3: who lived in the Amityville Horror House. What's kind of
Speaker 3: fascinating about that is that the Amityville Horror happened in
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy four. My experience was in nineteen seventy two,
Speaker 3: and then in I think nineteen seventy seven is when
Speaker 3: Son of Sam happened. And then there was a third thing.
Speaker 3: And it's almost like they could all be connected, like
Speaker 3: they might all be related in in some way or another.
Speaker 3: Because according to Chris, and that's his story tell not mine,
Speaker 3: his father was actively seeking paranormal experiences, and according to
Speaker 3: the Dafayo Ron d FAO, he actually knew mister Lutts
Speaker 3: and they had partied together in the Bronx, which is
Speaker 3: where the son of Sam claimed that he would participated
Speaker 3: in the occult activities that led to his murdering people.
Speaker 3: I mean, it could all be related, even in that respect,
Speaker 3: and that's why I think I just pray for everyone,
Speaker 3: because you really never know what people are going through,
Speaker 3: like you just I mean, how many times I was
Speaker 3: almost mugged in New York City and praying stopped. I've
Speaker 3: never officially been mugged, but almost. I mean a man
Speaker 3: held me up once with a broken beer bottle and
Speaker 3: I just told him I don't have any money, and
Speaker 3: then he ended up walking me to the subway and
Speaker 3: telling me to get home safe. So I mean, I
Speaker 3: definitely think that the spirit run influences us in ways
Speaker 3: that we're maybe not aware. I guess that's for everyone
Speaker 3: else to figure out, maybe and decide. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, I think support groups are probably have been
Speaker 3: really helpful to me, like just having the freedom to
Speaker 3: share and speak just like this, like this was really
Speaker 3: fascinating that you allowed me to do this. I'm looking
Speaker 3: forward to listening to as many of your podcasts as
Speaker 3: I possibly can. I mean, I could be probably binging
Speaker 3: on them for the next year and still not hear
Speaker 3: them all. I can through so many, there is a lot, Kelly.
Speaker 6: Indeed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think what I'm getting from you is
Speaker 5: that you know, you have this this aura around you,
Speaker 5: whether that's to do with the paranormal or the Christian side,
Speaker 5: but you radiate something. I understand why people tracked to
Speaker 5: your energy.
Speaker 3: Kelly. Oh. I mean, I've actually had people come up
Speaker 3: to me and say, you know, you're glowing. And I remember,
Speaker 3: like the first time it happened, I thought, what you like,
Speaker 3: what are you talking about? And then someone explained it.
Speaker 3: But I think what it is, Maybe it's like Jesus said,
Speaker 3: I give you my peace, And I think that maybe
Speaker 3: I had people say to me, everyone else looks so
Speaker 3: stressed out, and you look like you're at rest, you're peaceful,
Speaker 3: what's up? You know? And one time a man came
Speaker 3: up to me when I first moved to New York
Speaker 3: City and he said, do you mind if I ask
Speaker 3: you a question? And I said no, obviously, right, you know,
Speaker 3: and he said, I've been trying to curse you, and
Speaker 3: my curses won't land. He said, can you tell me why?
Speaker 3: And like a normal person would have probably been offended,
Speaker 3: or thought that was like too weird, right, But he
Speaker 3: was dressed normal, like he was just you know, like
Speaker 3: he wasn't dressed like a crazy homeless person or something.
Speaker 3: And I understood that my grandmother had that sort of
Speaker 3: occupation where people not that she would curse people, but
Speaker 3: they would pay her to take curses off of them
Speaker 3: because someone else had put a curse on them. And
Speaker 3: so I understood the concept. And I also understood that
Speaker 3: this man. I understood why he would have cursed me
Speaker 3: because I was outsider coming into New York City, you know,
Speaker 3: and I've met priests that are in Santaria who like
Speaker 3: this one. John Ramirez claims that someone offered him ten
Speaker 3: thousand dollars to put a curse on a coworker, and
Speaker 3: so I believe that this man was being genuine. So
Speaker 3: I didn't know how to answer his question. But I
Speaker 3: basically said, I said, is it Jesus? I said, I
Speaker 3: love Jesus. I said maybe maybe I'm protected by Jesus.
Speaker 3: And he just didn't have an answer, like he just
Speaker 3: seemed completely baffled that he wasn't able to curse me.
Speaker 3: And another time, two other times, actually people tried to
Speaker 3: read my palm, and they weren't able to like and like.
Speaker 3: The one guy was very well known. He was a
Speaker 3: very well known palm reader and he had just come
Speaker 3: from being on like the Today Show or something, and
Speaker 3: he was shopping in the store where I was shopping,
Speaker 3: and he said, I'd like to do a reading on you,
Speaker 3: because you know, I'm sure you don't want to work
Speaker 3: in a bookstore the rest of your life. And I said, okay,
Speaker 3: you know, I agreed. I mean I didn't know. I
Speaker 3: didn't understand the time. And he said, you know, people
Speaker 3: pay me a lot of money for these readings, and
Speaker 3: I said, oh. He said, I'm going to do it
Speaker 3: for free. And I said, okay, that's great. You know,
Speaker 3: like maybe he'll tell me, you know, I should be
Speaker 3: a brain surgeon, not working in a bookstore. And he
Speaker 3: wasn't able to read my poem and he was baffled.
Speaker 3: He said, can you tell me why? But I said,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I said, is it Jesus? I said,
Speaker 3: I read the Bible and I love Jesus. I said,
Speaker 3: I don't go to church. I don't really understand Christianity
Speaker 3: because I honestly, I will be honest with you. I
Speaker 3: don't think that the Christianity, what we call Christianity, is
Speaker 3: what Jesus intended. I think it's what was created by
Speaker 3: people in government that were trying to control the Jesus movement,
Speaker 3: like they were basically trying to take control of it,
Speaker 3: like before it got out of hand. I think especially
Speaker 3: Constantine was afraid of Christianity because it was apparently like wildfire,
Speaker 3: it was running through the Roman legion. And like archaeologists,
Speaker 3: there's someone called the naked archaeologist. He's one of my
Speaker 3: favorite archaeologists. But he did it. He went to Hadrian's Wall,
Speaker 3: i I think in Scotland, and then he went all over
Speaker 3: Europe and they discovered evidence that Roman soldiers were practicing
Speaker 3: Christianity before it was legal, because early as ninety, like
Speaker 3: the year ninety, you know, ninety, Common Era, and so
Speaker 3: the idea is that there was there was something spiritual
Speaker 3: going on that wasn't a religion. And then when I
Speaker 3: guess Constantine's father, Constantius and his mother became Christian he
Speaker 3: felt compelled to legalize it for their sake. And then
Speaker 3: after legalizing it, he felt like he needed to control
Speaker 3: it because they have letters that were written by early
Speaker 3: church leaders who said, well, if I can't, if I
Speaker 3: can't celebrate Winter Solstice, I'm not going to be a Christian.
Speaker 3: And so they said, well, you can celebrate, just call
Speaker 3: it Christmas, like call it like you know, just say
Speaker 3: you're celebrating Jesus. But you can continue to practice your
Speaker 3: pagan you know whatever. And so, like, the word Lent
Speaker 3: actually is just German and it means spring, and the
Speaker 3: Germane people prior to Christianity worship nature, so Lent was
Speaker 3: actually their spring worship. And so eventually it was like, well,
Speaker 3: can't you just tweak it a little bit and make
Speaker 3: it about Jesus, you know. And so basically like all
Speaker 3: these pagan holidays tweaked and they don't have any biblical basis,
Speaker 3: and that I think that's what was confusing to me
Speaker 3: as a child, is well, where is this in the Bible?
Speaker 3: You know, because there's a passage where it says that
Speaker 3: Jesus was twelve and he goes to the temple for
Speaker 3: Passover and he ends up staying behind to discuss Torah
Speaker 3: with the rabbis. Well, when a young Jewish boy turns thirteen,
Speaker 3: he is allowed to discuss Torah with the rabbis, and
Speaker 3: so obviously Jesus turned thirteen during Passover, or he wouldn't
Speaker 3: have been able to discuss Torah with the rabbis. So
Speaker 3: the idea is that, like, all the answers are in
Speaker 3: the Bible if you look for them, but all these
Speaker 3: traditions and holidays are not in the Bible. Even if
Speaker 3: you look for them, you're not going to find them.
Speaker 3: So it was confusing to me as a child. I
Speaker 3: didn't understand there was a disconnect. And so once I
Speaker 3: started exploring the Jewish Jesus, it's like the Bible took
Speaker 3: on a whole new meaning. And then also the paranormal Jesus.
Speaker 3: Once I embraced that and started reading the Bible, Heiser
Speaker 3: calls it a paranormal lens, like you put on a
Speaker 3: pair of glasses that allow you to read the Bible
Speaker 3: from a paranormal perspective. It's a completely different book, Like
Speaker 3: it's not about religion at all, and it's really fun,
Speaker 3: and like the Jewish people are practicing religion because they
Speaker 3: haven't discovered Jesus yet. But I go to a Messianic
Speaker 3: congregation where there are Jewish believers and they they love
Speaker 3: Jesus so much, and it's like it's so cool because
Speaker 3: they'll say, there's nothing more Jewish than loving Messiah, you know,
Speaker 3: machiak Jesus. And like the idea is that many Christians
Speaker 3: don't even know that the word Christ means Messiah, like
Speaker 3: that it's not Jesus's name, it's actually his job description.
Speaker 3: So I mean, I think it's because of the disconnect.
Speaker 3: That's what that happens, you know. And so I just pray,
Speaker 3: like I mean, I just I hope. I don't know.
Speaker 3: My hope is that God is merciful and he forgives ignorance,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because if people don't know,
Speaker 3: I mean, Jesus knows. I think Jesus basically said, I
Speaker 3: know my sheep, know my voice, and I know my people.
Speaker 3: And it's not about religion. I think it's you know,
Speaker 3: and like where there's love, you know, when someone has
Speaker 3: genuine love. I think Jesus is love, and I think
Speaker 3: that that's related, that's connected, like you know, So I
Speaker 3: don't I can't personally say I know what love is.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know what it isn't and I've had
Speaker 3: some you know, crazy experiences with humans. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, maybe those experiences happened also because of the
Speaker 3: spirit influence, you know, or people didn't know they were
Speaker 3: being influenced. I'm not sure, but my but again, you know,
Speaker 3: it's oppressed. I'm in progress. Does that make sense? Like
Speaker 3: I'm I think Dolly Parton would say, I'm a seeker,
Speaker 3: I'm seeking, I'm finding and product is the piece that
Speaker 3: comes with that. And I think that's I don't always
Speaker 3: have it, but it does happen, and it's it's probably
Speaker 3: my favorite thing. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 5: I think all of us are on a journey, all
Speaker 5: of us are a work in progress.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, right, and then we and we'll come together
Speaker 3: to compare notes sort of.
Speaker 5: Maybe that's it. Yeah, compare notes, but don't argue over
Speaker 5: those notes. That's I think that's the biggest problem these days.
Speaker 5: We're too busy, consumed with you know, just trying to
Speaker 5: get by in this world. And I know it's saying
Speaker 5: about it being divided. I mean this, I don't think
Speaker 5: this world has ever been more divided than it is now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I agree, yes, And as a middle child,
Speaker 3: I tend to seek to find a common ground to
Speaker 3: bring people together as opposed to I don't promote the division.
Speaker 3: I think the Bible would say there are fruitful things
Speaker 3: and then there are things that don't produce good fruit.
Speaker 3: Like you want to produce. You want to seek things
Speaker 3: that produce good fruit and that negative fruit. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't see the benefit. But I like what you said.
Speaker 3: I like what you said about we don't argue the notes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm not here to argue with people. I mean, I'm
Speaker 3: here to share my experiences and also to learn from
Speaker 3: other people's experiences. Because again I don't. I can't take
Speaker 3: one hundred percent credit for anything. I can't take any
Speaker 3: credit because the idea is that I listen to other
Speaker 3: people and I say, oh yeah, like that.
Speaker 5: I have my.
Speaker 3: Experiences that I've held onto all these years, and then
Speaker 3: I've strung them together to make a tapestry sort of
Speaker 3: that makes sense to me. But then I'll learn something
Speaker 3: from someone else and I'll realize, oh yeah, like I
Speaker 3: never met I never made the connection between the Ouiji
Speaker 3: board and the seeing the aliens until I don't even
Speaker 3: remember when that brought it together. But the idea is
Speaker 3: that whatever I communicated with did know things about both
Speaker 3: sides of my family, and my father's great grandfather was
Speaker 3: an Amish. You know, the Amish people in the United States,
Speaker 3: they separate themselves, they live, they drive around in buggies
Speaker 3: with horses, and they don't have electricity. And he was Amish,
Speaker 3: my father's great grandfather, and he was a shaman and
Speaker 3: he practiced Amish witchcraft. And a lot of people don't
Speaker 3: realize that the Amish have a form of witchcraft. And
Speaker 3: I think all cultures eventually that embraced Christianity also carried
Speaker 3: their pagan witchcraft into their Christianity and incorporated it. Like
Speaker 3: I just think that that was just a natural element
Speaker 3: because it's a religion, and it's a melting pot, you know,
Speaker 3: and people were bringing with it into the throwing into
Speaker 3: the pot whatever worked, you know. And so that's why
Speaker 3: I hesitate to say that Jesus is a religion, because
Speaker 3: there's no I have no traditions. I just I just
Speaker 3: speak to Jesus, like you know, when I pray, or
Speaker 3: when I'm confused, or I just I needed a job
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety eight and I was walking on Ninth
Speaker 3: Avenue and I just said, God, what am I going
Speaker 3: to do? I need a job and a man walking
Speaker 3: towards me recognized me from the bookstore that I had
Speaker 3: worked in a year before, and he said, Kelly, are
Speaker 3: you working And I said no, and he said, come
Speaker 3: work with me, and like that was my job interview
Speaker 3: and it lasted. That job lasted for twenty two years.
Speaker 3: So the idea is that I was proactive in the
Speaker 3: sense that I was praying. I just would call Jesus
Speaker 3: God because I didn't know that his name was Jesus.
Speaker 3: I mean, Jesus literally says I am the Father. I
Speaker 3: and the Father are one. If you've seen me, you've
Speaker 3: seen the Father. So in the Bible, Jesus is God.
Speaker 3: But he said, but my desire is that you will
Speaker 3: be like us, like you will be one with us
Speaker 3: the way we are one. And so that's through the
Speaker 3: Holy Spirit. And so once I read that, it just
Speaker 3: kind of clicked, like it made a lot of sense.
Speaker 3: It's John fourteen through John seventeen where Jesus discusses that,
Speaker 3: and it's just made a huge difference in the way
Speaker 3: I approach life and people. But the idea is, again,
Speaker 3: you know, it's proactive in the sense that I have
Speaker 3: I guess, the faith of a child and just like
Speaker 3: when I was four and the man said, you're ever
Speaker 3: afraid or you need anything? Called it Jesus. I was like, okay.
Speaker 3: And I have no idea who that man was. I
Speaker 3: don't even have an inkling of what church it was.
Speaker 3: But the idea is, it's not what the church taught.
Speaker 3: I mean, I didn't learn that in church. Just that
Speaker 3: man presented that to me and it clicked. It connected.
Speaker 3: It's made in my life a whole lot more fun.
Speaker 3: I mean I still had a lot of I think
Speaker 3: everyone has trauma, everyone has growing pains, as you call it,
Speaker 3: I guess they could be called that, but and not everyone.
Speaker 3: I mean, life isn't roses. I mean Jesus calls it
Speaker 3: a broken world, and that he actually refers to the
Speaker 3: god of this world as Satan, as as someone who
Speaker 3: hates us. So the idea is that we're living in
Speaker 3: enemy territory. We're not taught that, but that's what the
Speaker 3: Bible says, and so it's we should expect that things
Speaker 3: are going to be broken because that's what happened, Like
Speaker 3: that's just the nature of the flesh. But then whenever
Speaker 3: incorporate the spirit into the flash, it becomes a new
Speaker 3: ballgame like something completely different. I think that's the message
Speaker 3: that Jesus was trying to get across the people. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I hope I'm not misrepresenting Jesus. But I also call
Speaker 3: him Yeshua, like ever since I was baptized for some reason,
Speaker 3: like whenever I would pray or something, I would say Yeshua.
Speaker 3: And then I realized that Yeshua is Jesus in Hebrew,
Speaker 3: and it actually means safe place. Like if you go
Speaker 3: to Israel and you see the word Yeshua, that's a
Speaker 3: safe place where you can go, Like if there's a
Speaker 3: shooting or a bombing or something, there's like a shelter there.
Speaker 3: I think it's the Hebrew word for shelter basically. But
Speaker 3: the idea is that there's also violent things going on
Speaker 3: in this world. I mean I saw it in New
Speaker 3: York City. There was a man who built a bomb
Speaker 3: car and he parked it outside of where I worked,
Speaker 3: and it was scheduled to go off at six pm,
Speaker 3: which is why we would be punching out. We would
Speaker 3: quite be in the street at that point, but it
Speaker 3: didn't go off, and street vendor who had been in
Speaker 3: the military, recognized something strange about this car, and he
Speaker 3: notified the police and then they brought in a bomb squad.
Speaker 3: Ever since nine to eleven, I guess we have bomb squads,
Speaker 3: and so what happened was they dismantled it and no
Speaker 3: one was injured, and they were able to catch the
Speaker 3: man because my company that I worked for had security
Speaker 3: cameras in the street and they actually caught him getting
Speaker 3: out of the car, changing his clothes and walking through
Speaker 3: one of our alleys. I mean, I pray for him
Speaker 3: because I think that that was his reality was, you know,
Speaker 3: that for some reason he wanted to build this bomb
Speaker 3: car and set it off in Times Square, And so
Speaker 3: for whatever reason was, that's his reality. And now I
Speaker 3: pray for him that he gets a new reality because
Speaker 3: I don't think that's a healthy reality. Whenever you want
Speaker 3: to hurt people, there are situations where people do change
Speaker 3: their mind, you know, And maybe Jesus has something to
Speaker 3: do with that, like maybe, like Geronimo said, he referred
Speaker 3: to Jesus as Chief Jesus, which I thought was very
Speaker 3: cool because he put Jesus into the vernacular that he
Speaker 3: was raised in that he understood and he understood that
Speaker 3: Jesus's message was forgiveness, not revenge, like he broke it down,
Speaker 3: and I just I have a lot of respect for that.
Speaker 3: So I hope there is a heaven, and I hope
Speaker 3: that I get to meet like millions of people like
Speaker 3: all throughout history and just hear their stories, or that
Speaker 3: there's a library where I get to read everybody. I
Speaker 3: could spend eternity reading people's biographies, like I love hearing
Speaker 3: other people's stories, their experiences, and.
Speaker 5: It's wonderful, and I think that's how we learn. I
Speaker 5: think that's how we develop and grow. The reason why
Speaker 5: this show works is is because it's just simply people
Speaker 5: sharing their experiences. Not all of us agree, but the
Speaker 5: one thing that's important is, you know, we all listen.
Speaker 5: We all listen to each other, you know, because everyone
Speaker 5: has these little pieces of the puzzle and they don't
Speaker 5: always fit sometimes and we sit there and we can
Speaker 5: just keep on turning that puzzle piece and you know
Speaker 5: it will eventually fit, but we need the other pieces.
Speaker 5: We're all on this path, and the people are also
Speaker 5: on different paths sometimes. I like what you said about reality,
Speaker 5: that guy's reality. That's a good way of saying it.
Speaker 5: People are in different realities, not always good places. Hopefully
Speaker 5: sometime in the future the direction they should be going.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, a product productive and like again, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know that everyone is responsible for their perspective,
Speaker 3: you know, because like we're born into situations. I mean,
Speaker 3: and again this is departure from what people call Christianity.
Speaker 3: But the idea is that, I mean, we have free will,
Speaker 3: but at the same time, we are not free of
Speaker 3: our circumstances. It has to be sorted out. I mean,
Speaker 3: I believe that Jesus can do things supernaturally. I mean,
Speaker 3: I've heard story where people have they call it being
Speaker 3: delivered supernaturally from whatever. But the idea is, like you said,
Speaker 3: like we listen to each other and we yes, and
Speaker 3: like I'm not. I mean, I love as One of
Speaker 3: the things I love is just listening to each podcast
Speaker 3: and just listening to the person explaining how they got
Speaker 3: to where they are and what they believe and what
Speaker 3: they their experiences taught them and their pieces of the puzzle.
Speaker 3: And I love the analogy of turning the piece because
Speaker 3: it's true, like I love jigsaw puzzles. There's always that
Speaker 3: moment where oh wow, that's where that piece goes, Like
Speaker 3: you'll have that one strange piece that just doesn't seem
Speaker 3: to go with the puzzle at all, and then all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, it, oh, that's where it goes, and
Speaker 3: it's so exciting and yeah, and that's and that's what
Speaker 3: I get out of your out of listening to your show,
Speaker 3: and because it's like become an obsession of mine where
Speaker 3: I will binge on your podcasts and then I take
Speaker 3: a break and I'll go I've been watching I like
Speaker 3: archaeology documentaries, but then I also like watching about Skinwalker,
Speaker 3: like the Skinwalker Ranch. And then there's a bigfoot I
Speaker 3: call it Sasquatch Watch, but it's called something else. You know.
Speaker 3: You know, they're rabbit holes that are just really fascinating
Speaker 3: to go down. I like to jokingly tell people I'm
Speaker 3: getting my masters from YouTube University because it's like you're learning,
Speaker 3: like I mean, you're learning from all these people's experiences,
Speaker 3: and we wouldn't have that, We wouldn't have that ability
Speaker 3: if we didn't have the internet, you know, to connect everyone. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean the sixties and the seventies were fun too,
Speaker 3: but this is like a completely different ball game. It's
Speaker 3: really fun.
Speaker 5: A strange new world isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, this is funny. But when I was in
Speaker 3: grad school, I acquired two kats, a mother and a son,
Speaker 3: and every night when I went to bed, the son
Speaker 3: would wrap himself around my head on the pillow, and
Speaker 3: the mother would sleep on top of my feet. So
Speaker 3: every night I knew where they were. And I was
Speaker 3: explaining that to somebody once and they said, oh, that's
Speaker 3: how witches sleep, Like when a witch has cats, they
Speaker 3: protect her head and they protect her feet. And I thought, oh,
Speaker 3: that's interesting because I had gotten involved with this like
Speaker 3: witch coven kind of thing. Right, these cats don't sleep, so,
Speaker 3: like i've I can't allow them in the room when
Speaker 3: it's time to go to bed because they will fight.
Speaker 3: They will keep me awake all night long. They'll scream,
Speaker 3: they'll crawl under the covers, they'll get out of the covers,
Speaker 3: and it just seems like I don't know how to
Speaker 3: get them to sleep. But maybe because my other cats
Speaker 3: were outdoor, like they would go outside and like they
Speaker 3: basically while I was at work, they ran around and
Speaker 3: when I got home, they could they knew the sound
Speaker 3: of my keys going in the lock, and as soon
Speaker 3: as I put the key in the lock. They just
Speaker 3: came out of nowhere and they were home, and so
Speaker 3: they were tired by the time it was, you know, bedtime,
Speaker 3: that they would sleep through the night with me. That
Speaker 3: even when we had like a we were reading the
Speaker 3: Communion book by Whitley's Streeber and my boyfriend was staying over.
Speaker 3: He actually stopped staying at my apartment, and because of
Speaker 3: the paranormal things that were going on there, it was
Speaker 3: freaking everyone out, but it was so anyway. So I'm
Speaker 3: I crawl into bed and I feel something crawl over me,
Speaker 3: and I'm thinking it's one of the cats. But then
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, no, I know where they are. They're on
Speaker 3: my head and on my feet. He said, out, did
Speaker 3: you just bite me? I said, why would I bite you?
Speaker 3: He said, something just bit me or pinched me or
Speaker 3: something turned on the light and there was nothing there.
Speaker 3: But apparently in the Whitley Strieber's account, they would take
Speaker 3: blood samples from his fingertips, and so I guess my
Speaker 3: boyfriend at the time thought that maybe they had taken
Speaker 3: a bood sample or something, and then he kind of
Speaker 3: we broke up after that, but he stopped staying at
Speaker 3: my place basically because the paranormal things were just freaking
Speaker 3: him out. But I have so many stores from that
Speaker 3: time period. But the idea is that I laugh now.
Speaker 3: But it's the same year that Beetlejuice came out, and
Speaker 3: so we were all going through all this craziness on campus.
Speaker 3: And then one of my classmates went to see Beetlejuice,
Speaker 3: and he came into school the next day and he said,
Speaker 3: you guys, you have to see this movie. He said,
Speaker 3: I think it. I think it explains what's going on,
Speaker 3: like why we're having all these crazy experiences. And then
Speaker 3: the whole class we went to see Beetle Juice, like
Speaker 3: three nights in a row, and we were like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, this is we have a Beetle Juice because
Speaker 3: it was crazy. Like the the building where our studios
Speaker 3: were it was an old army barracks from like the
Speaker 3: nineteen twenties, so it was made of wood, you know,
Speaker 3: and so we would be in our studios working and
Speaker 3: we would hear one of the fire doors on either
Speaker 3: side of the building, either end of the building open
Speaker 3: and then slam closed, and then we would hear stomp,
Speaker 3: stump stomp, like somebody came in right, but there was
Speaker 3: no one there, and it would they would the footsteps
Speaker 3: would up at different places, so it wasn't like a memory,
Speaker 3: you know people say that sometimes buildings have memory. This
Speaker 3: was an actual entity that was stomping through the building
Speaker 3: and sometimes it would pull the fire alarm and then
Speaker 3: the fire company would show up, like the fire trucks
Speaker 3: and he would say where's the fire and would say
Speaker 3: there's no fire, but we have a ghost and it
Speaker 3: would be like, you know, you can be arrested for that,
Speaker 3: and we're like no, no, really, seriously, there's we didn't
Speaker 3: pull the alarm. So they eventually had to disconnect the
Speaker 3: fire alarm because this ghost, whatever kept the sentity, kept
Speaker 3: pulling the fire alarm. So if we had a fire,
Speaker 3: we were told you have to call the fire company
Speaker 3: in person because you can't. We can't keep running here
Speaker 3: every time this thing pulls the fire alarm. And then
Speaker 3: whatever it was was destroying people's artwork, like leaving fist
Speaker 3: marks in wet clay, big giant fist marks in wet clay,
Speaker 3: and then smashing pottery and just crazy things like that.
Speaker 3: And I actually dropped out of grad school kind of
Speaker 3: as a result because I really thought I was losing
Speaker 3: my mind, like I just I remembered thinking I don't understand,
Speaker 3: and like, within four months, my whole life was completely
Speaker 3: upheaval because as a long story, but I lost my job,
Speaker 3: I lost my boyfriend, I dropped out of school. And
Speaker 3: that's when a pastor from my parents' church sent me
Speaker 3: a letter and he said he was a new pastor.
Speaker 3: He was young, and he understood spiritual warfare. And the
Speaker 3: letter said, dear Kelly, I'm a pastor at your parents' church.
Speaker 3: I'm just sending letters to all the students, and you're
Speaker 3: a student, and I just wanted to let you know
Speaker 3: if you have any questions and give me a call.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, do I have questions? I have so many
Speaker 3: questions right now? And so I called him at four
Speaker 3: o'clock in the afternoon, which was prime time when you
Speaker 3: pay three dollars a minute or whatever. And I thought,
Speaker 3: I'll just be on the phone for ten minutes tops,
Speaker 3: because as soon as I tell him what's going on
Speaker 3: in my life, he's going to hang up on me.
Speaker 3: You'll think I'm crazy. And we were on the phone
Speaker 3: for four hours, and this man explained spiritual warfare to
Speaker 3: me which I had never heard of, and I thought, like,
Speaker 3: this is crazy. And then at the end of the
Speaker 3: call four hours later, he said, what is your biggest
Speaker 3: fear right now? And I said, my biggest fear right
Speaker 3: now is how am I going to pay for this
Speaker 3: phone call? Because we've been on the phone for four
Speaker 3: hours and it's like three dollars a minute or something.
Speaker 3: And he said, don't worry about the phone call. And
Speaker 3: I said, are you going to pay it? And he
Speaker 3: said no, He said, just don't worry about it. And
Speaker 3: I said, okay, you know, and I hung up the phone,
Speaker 3: and the phone call never showed up on my phone
Speaker 3: bill ever, and like even when I moved a month
Speaker 3: later and I disconnected the line, no one ever called
Speaker 3: me and said, you owe us, you know, three million
Speaker 3: dollars for that phone call, and no one or no
Speaker 3: one ever called to confirm that it was a you know,
Speaker 3: was that a mistake or I mean, no one ever
Speaker 3: addressed the phone call whatsoever. So so that was kind
Speaker 3: of my introduction to I guess miracles in the sense
Speaker 3: that God can do crazy stuff. I don't know. But
Speaker 3: then I started having my own experiences, like we had
Speaker 3: blood manifestations, I mean, there's so many things that happened
Speaker 3: after that. But the idea is that's when I started
Speaker 3: connecting those dots, like connecting the dots to the Bible,
Speaker 3: but not necessarily religion, because the religion is the part
Speaker 3: that rejected me. But it was the Bible that had
Speaker 3: I started to see answers in there. And that was
Speaker 3: when I moved to New York City and I started
Speaker 3: reading the Bible from a paranormal perspective and also a
Speaker 3: Jewish perspective, and I just started learning things that I
Speaker 3: didn't know before, and it was really cool. I think
Speaker 3: that's helped me a lot. And also they don't reject
Speaker 3: my experiences, which was really helpful too, because it's damaging
Speaker 3: to a person when you cancel them. Have you ever
Speaker 3: heard of the book A Beautiful Mind. I think it
Speaker 3: was made to a film. So the idea is a
Speaker 3: disman was schizophrenic, but he was also brilliant, so he
Speaker 3: was like a brilliant professor or scientist. He just died recently,
Speaker 3: but he lived in New Jersey. But he was schizophrenic
Speaker 3: and he heard voices. My understanding is that after the
Speaker 3: film was made, he was introduced to the concept that
Speaker 3: the voices were actually real, that he wasn't hallucinating them,
Speaker 3: and that they were actually demons. And I think he
Speaker 3: was Jewish, so I think this was introduced to him,
Speaker 3: and he, in his later years understood, oh, I'm not crazy,
Speaker 3: I'm just experiencing something paranormal, and so he stopped taking
Speaker 3: medication and he apparently functioned. He functioned well without the medication.
Speaker 3: I think that medication helps some people, especially if they're violent,
Speaker 3: any kind of violence involved. But I think that sometimes
Speaker 3: the medications create new problems. I don't know. I think
Speaker 3: that there's a book I read by a psychiatrist who
Speaker 3: works in New York City and he uses exorcism in
Speaker 3: his practice, and his name is James Gallagher. And then
Speaker 3: there's another man called m. Scott Peck who wrote a
Speaker 3: book that was famous called The Road Less Traveled. I
Speaker 3: had no idea that M. Scott Peck also was a
Speaker 3: doctor who used exorcism in his practice. So these are
Speaker 3: things that are not mainstream, like it's not something that's
Speaker 3: talked about regularly. But I also I met a man
Speaker 3: who was a chaplain in the military, and he wrote
Speaker 3: a book called wen Demon's Surface, and it's about his
Speaker 3: thirty years as a military chaplain helping people who have
Speaker 3: spiritual issues. And that was really fascinating to me because
Speaker 3: he again traces isorism like back into the ancient culture,
Speaker 3: like Jesus did exorcism, but apparently like ancient cultures it
Speaker 3: as well, just like Irving Finkel. You know, the book
Speaker 3: that his research dates predates the Bible by thousands of years,
Speaker 3: so you know, it's it's old, and it's I think
Speaker 3: it's information that's been forgotten during the age of Enlightenment.
Speaker 3: We I think we left a lot of things. I
Speaker 3: don't know we turned off the lights, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: I agree with you.
Speaker 5: There wonderful stuff, Kelly. So many interesting experiences.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, And well it was fun. I mean
Speaker 3: I've never I've never. I mean I've shared some of
Speaker 3: my experiences with people right just fishing to hear their stories,
Speaker 3: but I've never I don't think I've ever shared so
Speaker 3: many in one sitting. That's kind of fun.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Kelly. I really appreciate you coming on sharing
Speaker 5: all that for our listeners.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. It was fun. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: You're fantastic. I think you provide the freedom. Thank you.
Speaker 5: It was wonderful to meet you, Kelly. Okay, please keep
Speaker 5: in contact and we will speak soon.
Speaker 3: Very good, Thank you.
Speaker 6: Take care bye for now, Kelly. Well, that is all
Speaker 6: for this episode. Keep updated and connected with the show
Speaker 6: on x, Facebook and Instagram. And if you have an
Speaker 6: encounter that you'd like to share on the podcast, you
Speaker 6: can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com,
Speaker 6: or you can reach out to me via the contact
Speaker 6: page on my website UFO Chronicles podcast dot com. A
Speaker 6: big thank you to Kelly for sharing tonight, and thank
Speaker 6: you all for listening. I will be back next week.
Speaker 6: Till then, stay safe and keep watching the Skies.
Speaker 5: Goodbye