WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:04.599 Welcome back to another exciting episode of Space Nuts, the 2 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:09.519 podcast that is absolutely out of this world. I am 3 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:13.080 your host today, Heidi Compo, filling in for the regular 4 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:17.359 Andrew Dunkley. And here we have with us Professor Fred Watson, 5 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:19.440 astronomer at Large. 6 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:25.239 Fifteen shack and guide the Channel ten nine ignition. 7 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:33.359 Space Nuts SHY four three two one, space Nurse at 8 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:37.280 the NAT recorded fels good. Hi Fred, how are you 9 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:37.880 doing today? 10 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:40.759 I'm well, thanks handy and lovely to see you again. 11 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:44.039 And we have a beautiful sunny morning here in Sydney 12 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:46.880 where I'm recording at the moment, you're at the other 13 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.079 end of the world, at the other end. 14 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:50.840 Of the day, Space Center Houston. 15 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:51.880 It's evening. 16 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:55.000 It's been quite windy here, but the weather's been nice. 17 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:58.560 It's been warm, but not too warm. And this is 18 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:00.560 going to be this is going to be an I 19 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.680 think springtime in Houston is always just really fantastic. And 20 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:07.799 speaking of this month, I wanted to share with you 21 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.079 and our other listeners an exciting event that is happening 22 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.040 here in Space Center Houston. Well, yeah, sorry, it will 23 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:16.599 be at Space Center Houston, but it's happening in Houston 24 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:21.959 in general. Is the Spaceflight Human Optimization and Performance Summit, 25 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.000 so that will be happening at the end of the month, 26 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:28.439 and they are going to have all kinds of fantastic 27 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:33.159 speakers from NASA and other private organizations. They're giving educational 28 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:36.079 talks on the effects of spaceflight on the human body. 29 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:39.799 And it is such a fantastic opportunity to network, to 30 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:42.760 hear from people who are really at the cutting edge 31 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:46.040 of science, and to just kind of collaborate with some 32 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:49.400 really brilliant people. It's fun to sometimes be in those 33 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.239 places where you are pretty confident that you're not the 34 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:53.359 smartest person in the room. 35 00:01:55.439 --> 00:02:01.000 I've spent my whole life feeling that, honestly, Well. 36 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:02.959 I feel like that sometimes when I'm looking at your 37 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:07.200 books and whatnot. So we've got some pretty fun articles 38 00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:11.919 we're looking at today. We've got some things about stuff 39 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:16.280 going on on Mars. There's articles about space junk and 40 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:21.479 galaxy models. And I wanted to start this off by 41 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:25.159 asking you, Fred, have you ever been to Arizona. 42 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:33.000 Oh, yes, quite often, because for a long time the 43 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:41.199 center of the world's astronomy instrument development. What's the word 44 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:45.159 for it, frost, That's a good word. The center of 45 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.840 the world's Astronomy Instrument Development THRUST was in Tucson, and 46 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.560 of course the Kitpeak National Observatory is not very far 47 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.759 from Tucson, so I spent many many weeks there on 48 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:02.039 and off. And the other thing that Tucson's famous for 49 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:05.039 in that sense of the two of course are absolutely interlieved, 50 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:09.960 is that's where the basically the dark Sky movement started, 51 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:12.639 the idea that we can do something about light pollution, 52 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:17.120 because it was at that time the impact was mostly 53 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:19.120 on astronomers. But we now know that it's not just 54 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:22.439 astronomers who were impacted by bad light and light pollution, 55 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:26.400 it's the whole natural world and indeed ourselves. So that 56 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:29.199 has moved on since the early nineteen eighties when it 57 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:33.479 all got going in Tucson, Arizona. And yes, while I 58 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:35.400 was in TUCSONA I explored most of the rest of 59 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:37.360 Arizona's squat excellent. 60 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:39.319 Well, yeah, that's good. We're kind of building on what 61 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:41.919 we talked about last week with the pollution. But I 62 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:43.960 was going to say, if you've been to Arizona, well, 63 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.639 I guess in Sydney, Australia too. You've definitely seen some 64 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:47.919 dust storms. 65 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:52.120 Right, yeah, yeah, that's right, and absolutely I know where 66 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:52.719 this is going. 67 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:59.800 Do you get haboobs in Australia at all? You know? 68 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.240 Is that the name for what we call dust devils? 69 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:06.960 Oh, so the haboobs are the really really big ones. 70 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.280 I was living in Arizona. If you guys want to 71 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:16.519 google the twenty ten haboob in Arizona haboob. It's very 72 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:23.839 phonetic huboob. I believe or ha that it is a 73 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:27.680 Middle Eastern word because these normally happen in the Middle 74 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:30.360 East and with things like you've seen the movie Hill 75 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:34.240 Dalgo with the horse horses running things like that. So 76 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:38.040 if you see the twenty ten haboo Arizona pictures you'll 77 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:41.079 see what I'm talking about. Quite crazy, but yeah, dust 78 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:43.920 is something that you're going to be familiar with in 79 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:48.480 places like Australia and Arizona, but people may not be 80 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.600 as familiar with some of the dust storms on Mars, 81 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:54.720 which you're so smart. That's exactly where we were going 82 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:59.240 is they did see some dust devil activity on Mars, 83 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:01.560 and I think that's kind of cool and exciting. Can 84 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:04.240 you tell us a little bit about going out of that? 85 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:08.000 And it's for the this is a a topic I 86 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.959 really love, and it's because you've put your finger on it. 87 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.959 This is something we're familiar with here, not in Sydney certainly, 88 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:18.680 but in the western plains of New South Wales, and 89 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:21.560 I lived in that region for twenty five years. It 90 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:26.120 was very common to see these pillars of dust. Is 91 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:28.519 that what you mean by a haboob? Is it very much? 92 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:29.959 You know? 93 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.319 How does it relate to a tornado? 94 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:36.399 Bubes are much more extreme. It's an extreme dust storm 95 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:39.399 that's more like a wall of sand or by area. 96 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.399 So if you think of interstellar with the wave of water, 97 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:44.040 it's like that, but with sand. 98 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:48.920 We get that in Australia too, whether you know, the 99 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:52.439 top soil will blow off in one region and you 100 00:05:52.519 --> 00:05:57.079 will literally get a wall of dust, brown dust, which 101 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:02.399 sometimes gives rise to the most spect tacular photographs. And 102 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:05.720 if the dust, you know, penetrates far enough, it does 103 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:08.360 actually reach the coast. There have been occasions of that 104 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:14.879 sort of dust storm in Sydney. The the whole color 105 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:18.240 of the landscape changes, not just because it's covered in dust, 106 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:21.800 but because the atmosphere filters out you know, all the 107 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:24.920 all the the blue light and you get this reddish 108 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:28.959 ethereal glow, which is in many ways etherea is probably 109 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:33.399 the wrong word. It's it's actually almost apocalyptic. It feels, 110 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:35.560 you know, that that you've got this wall of dust 111 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:40.800 and the colors afterwards, the cover of the peculiar colors. 112 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:43.079 But what I was going to talk about today though, 113 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.439 what are usually known as dust devils, which are quite 114 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.600 small areas of dust, and it's where you get a 115 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:54.079 little whirlwind that picks up a column of dust and 116 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:57.879 moves along the landscape. So you see these moving columns 117 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:04.439 of basically dust. Sometimes there's bits of debris being circulated around. 118 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:09.199 It's not a tornado, but it's you know, the sort 119 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:13.879 of perhaps the poor relative of a tornado. We do 120 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:17.000 get them in western New South Wales, and I've seen 121 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:20.680 a lot there, but I was surprised. It goes back 122 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:25.000 actually this story to probably about two thousand and three 123 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:28.680 or four, in the early days of the new generation 124 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:33.040 of Mars rovers. Spirit and Opportunity were the two that 125 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:35.279 really sort of put Mars rovers on the map. There 126 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:38.360 were other ones before that, but Spirit and Opportunity gave 127 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:42.800 us some stunning images of the planet's surface, and among 128 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:47.600 them were images from Spirit I think taken from the 129 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:54.040 top of a mountain range which was basically on the 130 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:56.680 edge of a crater. Actually it might have been Curiosity, 131 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:58.160 and I should have checked that. No, I think it's 132 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:01.680 Spirit Crater. I think it was its name if I 133 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:06.160 remember rightly, lovely images across the crater with a little 134 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:10.240 movie clips of these dust devils going across it, which 135 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:14.079 are relatively common on Mars, it turns out, and in 136 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:17.560 fact they were observed actually by the Viking orbiter back 137 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:21.759 in nineteen seventy six, so the spacecraft happened to be 138 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:24.680 looking down at a region where one of these was happening. 139 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:28.639 They're different from earthly ones in first of all, in 140 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:33.679 the sense that because the atmosphere on Mars is so dry, 141 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:39.480 it's virtually zero humidity, that means that static electricity can 142 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.000 build up, and so you often get flashes of lightning 143 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:48.879 in the base of Martian dust devils, and yeah, little 144 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:51.960 sparks of lightning caused by the static electricity build up. 145 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:55.759 And the other thing is they're much taller than the 146 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:58.200 ones we find here on Earth. The biggest one I 147 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:02.799 ever saw in South Wales here in Australia probably had 148 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:05.600 a height of about five hundred meters half a kilometer, 149 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:10.159 so what's that sort of you know, about about the 150 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:14.320 third of a mile basically, and that's you know, that 151 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:19.240 was pretty significant. On Mars they get up to eight kilometers, 152 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:23.320 which is like five miles, and I guess that's partly 153 00:09:23.399 --> 00:09:25.720 due to the fact that the dust is very, very fine, 154 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.360 and also the fact that Mars of course only has 155 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:32.799 a third of the gravity that we have here on 156 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:39.559 planet Earth and just a quicker side. They're technically known 157 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:44.039 as dust devils. I think that's the correct term. It's 158 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:46.559 different from a haboob. A harboob's a wall of dust, 159 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:50.440 and that's something we also get. But in most of 160 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:53.879 Australia they have a first nation's name and aboriginal name. 161 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:58.279 They're called willy willies, and a willy Willie is a 162 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:04.159 little dust storm that going past on the horizon. One 163 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.279 of the little factoid about the Martian ones in particular 164 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:14.039 is that with both spirit and opportunity, which relied for 165 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:20.000 their power on solar panels, unlike curiosity and perseverance, which 166 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:28.440 have got thermoelectric nuclear generators, the dust panel, sorry, the 167 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:33.960 solar panels tended to get just covered by dust that is, 168 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:36.639 you know, present on Mars. Mars is a very very 169 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:40.879 dusty planet. So as you as you roam around the surface, 170 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:44.320 you're kicking up dust with the space with the rovers wheels, 171 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.519 and that dust eventually lands on the solar panels. I'm 172 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:51.600 going to have to clear my throat. Excuse me one minute, Yeah, yeah, 173 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:55.399 there we go. I hope that. Oh, I don't think. 174 00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:56.600 I don't think I muted that. 175 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:58.840 That's okay, we can edit that out. 176 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:02.679 That was meant to be muted out, and I'm sorry 177 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:05.039 I did. Sorry, Hugh, that probably went right in your ears, 178 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:07.960 as I can see from Heidie's face it went in 179 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:14.240 hers as well. Just to mention though, that the solar 180 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:19.200 panels themselves were cleared unlike my throat by dust devils. 181 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:22.519 They were actually cleared when these things passed over and 182 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.200 swept the dust off the solar panels. So Curiosity in particular, 183 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:31.639 which was in a sorry opportunity, was in a dusty 184 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:36.240 place that kept you know, the power kept dropping and 185 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:39.200 kept reappearing again because of these dust devils. 186 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.000 Quite quite extraordinary, and that's definitely going to be a 187 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:45.600 concern when we're trying to, you know, get humanity to 188 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.440 set up a colony on this planet. I'm just thinking 189 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:50.919 of the movie The Martian, as cliche as it is, 190 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:53.320 that was the big problem that got him stuck there 191 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.000 to begin with, was that big dust storm. So I 192 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:59.200 guess that was a bit scientifically accurate when they put 193 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:00.000 that into that movie. 194 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:04.440 And that's right, the dust storm was we now know 195 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:08.240 Martian dust is. It's toxic as well, in the sense 196 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:10.679 that it gets into your lungs. It does quite a 197 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:14.799 lot of damage. So in my view, not a place 198 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:16.360 to colonize, but that's my view. 199 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:20.519 Is the dust similar to the moon regolith, where it's 200 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:21.480 also kind of sticky? 201 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:25.600 Yeah, I think it's a bit like that, and probably 202 00:12:25.639 --> 00:12:27.440 for the same sort of reason. Mars has such a 203 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:33.000 thin atmosphere that the erosion processes. Originally, erosion took place 204 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.600 with wind and water like like it did here on 205 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:38.679 Earth because of the fact that Mars had a warm 206 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:46.360 and wet climate. The thinness of the atmosphere means that 207 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.399 you've got a much higher level of bombardment by subatomic 208 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:53.200 particles from the Sun, and that's what gives you the sharp, 209 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:56.440 pointy edges of dust particles on the Moon. Now the 210 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.000 Moon's nearer to the Sun than Mars is, but I 211 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:02.720 think still the mechanism occurs that you've got bombardment, which 212 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:06.240 which actually further further breaks down the further breaks down 213 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:06.960 the dust. 214 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.159 Well, if if we do end up going to Mars 215 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:15.240 and we are successful with our endeavors there, we can 216 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:19.720 fill Twister three with Glenn Powell doing some twisters on Mars. 217 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:25.519 Space nuts to. 218 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.559 Get through the atmosphere. It seems like there is just 219 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.759 more and more issues with their atmosphere and all the 220 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:34.080 space trunk that's up there. And I even just saw 221 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:36.279 on I don't know if it was Prime or Netflix, 222 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:38.960 whatever streaming service I was on the other night, there's 223 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:42.759 a movie. There's a there's a movie out about space junk, 224 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.679 and in this sci fi movie they have people who 225 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:51.240 work in orbit constantly clearing space debris. But that might 226 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.480 not be something that's even a worry because it looks 227 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:58.320 like there's a new technology that can help us with 228 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:00.840 some of the space debris and junk. Can our orbit. 229 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:07.559 Absolutely, I mean, this is one of the major problems 230 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:12.399 of our era, the potential for space chunk. It's the 231 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:15.480 space junk already exists. There's a lot of stuff up 232 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:20.200 there that is now redundant and quite harmful, given that 233 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.960 the minimal orbital speed that you're going at is about 234 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:27.080 eight kilometers per second, about five miles per second, So 235 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:31.120 everything is charging around at very high speeds, and as 236 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.320 you will well know, even a fleck of paint can 237 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:36.720 take a chip out of the window of a space shuttle. 238 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:41.159 That very well known phenomenon from a few decades ago. 239 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:47.120 Actually so at the moment there are just over eleven 240 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.799 thousand active spacecraft in orbit around the Earth. Most of 241 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:54.600 them are Starlink satellites. But when you look at the 242 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:58.679 debris that is actually tracked, stuff that is redundant, I 243 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:00.759 don't have the exact figure out, but it's well over 244 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:06.399 thirty thousand items bigger than four inches sorry for it, yes, 245 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:10.240 four inches, one hundred millimeters, ten centimeters. And then when 246 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:14.159 you look at smaller stuff, you're in the millions. You're 247 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:16.080 really in the millions of bits of debris, and it's 248 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:20.840 all damaging. And that the main problem is that as 249 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.240 soon as you get a collision between two bits of 250 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:27.279 this stuff, especially if it's sizable in any way, then 251 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:32.919 you will get more debris being created, and that increases 252 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:34.720 the risk and that can lead to what's called the 253 00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:38.639 Kessler syndrome, where everything's crashing into everything else and you 254 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.960 suddenly lose access to space. So it's a real problem 255 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:46.080 and one that needs attention, and indeed is getting attention 256 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.559 from the world's technologists. I just saw a tail walk 257 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:51.159 through the picture there behind. 258 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:58.519 You, little dog speaking of little problems. Yes, always on 259 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:02.200 the parral. But yeah, I mean this is super interesting 260 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:06.039 because it's like every i mean almost every something going 261 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:08.840 wrong in space movie starts with this. So it's well 262 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.320 mel from the scientists down to the creatives. And so 263 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:16.879 it looks like this this this what do they call them, 264 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:19.440 the bold new weapon against space junk. It looks like 265 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:24.240 Percy p e r Sei Space Yep, that's right, is 266 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:26.840 a startup that's helping with these issues. 267 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.240 Yes, that's right. So that there is a backstory to 268 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:34.240 this in that there's been several experiments carried out by 269 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:38.679 both private companies and things, you know, body bodies like 270 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:41.039 the European Space Agency to try and see how you 271 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:45.720 could clean up space, and mostly it involves something like well, 272 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:49.879 one of them is sending up a spacecraft that centrally 273 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:53.240 rendevus with a satellite that's now redundant, whether it's a 274 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.440 rocket body or you know, a communication satellite, something that 275 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.200 switched off and is now dead. But he's a risk 276 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.960 because it's up there. And if you can then put 277 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.200 it through a grappling iron at it, you know, going 278 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.680 back to the technology that was used in the Middle Ages, 279 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:12.839 catch hold of it with your hydraulically propelled grappling iron 280 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.079 or whatever it is, you then can capture it. And 281 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:20.839 if you have a satellite that now has hold of 282 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:26.200 this Maverick object, you can basically apply braking rockets and 283 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.839 make it re enter so that it burns up and 284 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:32.599 is no longer a problem for collisions. But that's a 285 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.799 difficult that's quite a tricky problem and it needs, you know, 286 00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:38.839 spacecraft equipped with quite large amounts of fuel to do that. 287 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:42.759 And so this new idea, the one that you've highlighted 288 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:47.160 from perse Iied Space, it's going to be tested actually 289 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:51.880 early next year. It's quite counterintuitive and takes it will 290 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.279 to get your head around how it works. It's called 291 00:17:55.359 --> 00:18:00.960 an electrodynamic tether. It's a ribbon of aluminium maybe more 292 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:04.319 than that one hundreds of meters i e. Hundreds of 293 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:08.640 yards long and only a few inches or centimeters wide. 294 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:13.680 And what happens is that this thing gets a current 295 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:18.400 running up and down it from the plasma in the ionosphere. 296 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.559 And by that we mean charged particles charge sub atomic particles, 297 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:26.200 in other words, sub atomic particles that carry an electric charge, 298 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.400 so excuse me. So you get an electric current set 299 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.599 up in the tether, but that then interacts with the 300 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.880 asthmagnetic field. This is the really cunning bit and puts 301 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:41.240 a drag on the tether. It slows it down, it 302 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.400 starts breaking it. So if the tether is attached to 303 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:47.319 in fact, it can be attached to a cube sat. 304 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:49.240 They're small enough that you can do that. This is 305 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:51.759 the thing of size of a loaf of bread. But 306 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.640 you then have to attach the cube sat to whatever 307 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.559 spacecraft you want to whose orbit you want to change. 308 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:03.079 You can actually set things up so that you slow 309 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:09.720 down the Maverick spacecraft and essentially make it slow enough 310 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:12.440 that it will start to re enter the atmosphere and 311 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:15.279 be burned up and again got out of the way. 312 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.440 But this is the really coming bit. If you do 313 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.559 it in a slightly different way, you can also actually 314 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:25.480 push it into a higher orbit so that you can 315 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.880 refurbish a spacecraft one that has run out of its 316 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:34.359 maneuvering fuel, so it can't save itself from being swallowed 317 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:36.480 up by the atmosphere anymore. You can shove it up 318 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:40.680 to a higher orbits with the same electrodynamic tether and 319 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.240 give it a new lease of life. It's quite an 320 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.920 amazing promise. And this is the best bit. All of 321 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:50.279 this is free. It comes with no fuel expenditure. It's 322 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:53.519 because you're relying on the natural forces that' surround the 323 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:56.279 earth in order to do this. It's a very very 324 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.359 clever argument. The question is will it work. 325 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.680 Yeah, what you're sounding, what you're saying sounds truly just 326 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.759 like magic. And I think about that all the time. 327 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:09.440 If you were to tell ancient people about even just 328 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.920 the Internet or a phone, it would have founded like 329 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.200 magic for them. And oh, I'm talking to somebody around 330 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.119 the world. They would have thought I was a sorceress. 331 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:23.200 And this to me sounds just amazing. It's so cool 332 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:27.279 what humans have truly come up with. I mean, humanity, 333 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:30.640 I'm so proud of us. Sometimes sometimes I'm not so. 334 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.680 Sometimes Sometimes I look at what humanity is collectively doing 335 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:37.200 and it's just so awe inspiring and I just love 336 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:45.400 being around these people who are doing incredible things or 337 00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:51.480 space nuts. But sometimes we mess it up, and sometimes 338 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:55.759 our models and predictions get it wrong, which looks like 339 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:01.559 that was the case with some models that they created 340 00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:05.200 with these galaxies. There are models. Either the models got 341 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:07.160 it wrong or the galaxies got it wrong. But our 342 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:11.839 predictions is that they were going to continue growing, but 343 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:17.359 in reality the galaxies stopped growing sooner than the models predicted. 344 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:24.839 That's right. A fascinating story once again comes from I 345 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:27.200 guess the post a child of spacecraft at the moment, 346 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:31.640 at least for astronomers, the James Webspace Telescope, which has, 347 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:35.920 as you know, I think we talked about this a 348 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:41.039 week or so ago, has been concentrating on as well 349 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:44.480 as many other objects in space, but looking very much 350 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:47.480 at very distant galaxies, because that is our probe to 351 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:51.799 the early universe. Whenever we look into space, we're always 352 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:55.039 looking back in time. We are looking back, in this 353 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:59.240 case many many billions of years. We think the universe 354 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:01.559 is thirteen point eight billion years old, so nothing can 355 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:03.920 look back further than that. We do see something at 356 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:06.279 that age, but it's the flash of the Big Bang. 357 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.000 But those galaxies which came into being we think within 358 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:14.240 the first few hundred million years of the Big Bang. 359 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:19.200 The Big Bang generated hydrogen. Hydrogen form stars, stars form galaxies, 360 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.599 and so we basically have been looking for galaxies in 361 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.000 the early history of the universe kind of to try 362 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.000 and understand when these first stars occurred and when they 363 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:35.599 switched on. And the basically what's happened is we've uncovered 364 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:41.599 one after another puzzles, really quite serious puzzles for our 365 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.920 understanding of how galaxies work. And this new one, it's 366 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:52.119 another conundrum comes about because we see galaxies when the 367 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:55.160 universe was less than a billion years old, but we 368 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:57.640 see galaxies that look as though they should be several 369 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:01.079 billion years old, and that's because they've used up all 370 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:07.920 their hydrogen in forming forming the stars. Staff galaxies do 371 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:10.480 form stars because the hydrogen is the raw material of 372 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:15.079 the stars, and certainly our galaxy is actually still forming stars. 373 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:18.000 But some we know formed stars used up all their 374 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:22.079 hydrogen and became effectively dead galaxies. Now, we thought those 375 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:24.920 had to be going for billions of years in order 376 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:28.559 to get like that, but several have been found now 377 00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:32.799 in the early universe, which looks as though they're much 378 00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:36.799 older than they can be because they've you know, they've 379 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:40.000 only existed for a few hundred million few, yes, a 380 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:45.640 few hundred million years. There's some really nice nomenclature with this, Heidi, 381 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:51.079 because like you know, astronomers tend to light forming nice acronyms. 382 00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:55.240 And there is a survey called which is called Red 383 00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:00.799 Unknowns Bright Infrared Extra Galactic Survey, which abbreviates to RUBIES, 384 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:04.279 and I quite like that abbreviation. So one of these 385 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:09.279 galaxies is called Rubies udsqg Z seven. That's you know, 386 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:12.519 a nice yeah, just encapsulates everything about it. I guess 387 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:16.880 the Rubies is echoing what these galaxies look like. Galaxies 388 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:19.559 look like. They're redder than the star forming galaxies which 389 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:23.319 tendency who have the tendency to be blue. So another 390 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:25.799 puzzle in the early universe which we have to get 391 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:29.359 our heads around in order to understand really what's going 392 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:32.599 on in that distant era of our past. 393 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.319 Do you think and I almost like, you know, it's 394 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:39.440 almost scary to think this, but do you think that 395 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:42.240 we could discover so much in space with James Web 396 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:46.240 and looking deeper and deeper that it challenges everything that 397 00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:49.680 we already know about the Solar System and sorry, the universe. 398 00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:55.039 It's almost like that already. It's the Web telescope has 399 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:01.279 really caused a lot of heads scratching in terms of 400 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:05.000 how you make these observations fit with our models of 401 00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:08.680