1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,759 Speaker 1: Have you ever had that feeling, that really strange, almost 2 00:00:03,879 --> 00:00:07,120 uncanny feeling of walking down into history. 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 2: I know exactly what you mean. 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,919 Speaker 1: I mean, literally, you're walking down a set of stairs, four, five, 5 00:00:13,199 --> 00:00:16,199 maybe even six steps, just to get to what you 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,519 know was the original ground floor of an ancient church somewhere, 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,039 or you know, a historic building in London. 8 00:00:22,199 --> 00:00:25,039 Speaker 2: It's a physical paradox, isn't it. You're standing there on 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,800 modern asphalt and you're looking down at what should be 10 00:00:27,839 --> 00:00:30,920 the entrance level of a structure that was built centuries ago. 11 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: And you just realized that multiple feet of solid earth 12 00:00:34,359 --> 00:00:37,520 have somehow accumulated all around it. We hear about places 13 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,000 like Seattle or London where entire city blocks exist now 14 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,359 just as subterranean basements beneath the current street level, the 15 00:00:44,399 --> 00:00:47,200 whole world down there exactly. And you stand there and 16 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,520 you think, wait a second. This building was supposedly built 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,079 on the surface, you know, hundreds of years ago. Where 18 00:00:53,119 --> 00:00:55,799 on Earth did all this material, all this dirt and 19 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,719 rock and rubble, Where did it come from to bury 20 00:00:58,719 --> 00:00:59,759 it by several meters? 21 00:01:00,159 --> 00:01:01,359 Speaker 2: That is the core question. 22 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: That's the question we're unlocking today, and it's a question 23 00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:07,799 that is launched, I mean countless archaeological digs and as 24 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,319 we're about to see countless conspiracy theories. 25 00:01:10,439 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: Our mission today is well, it's intrinsically layered, which feels appropriate. 26 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,840 It mirrors the very history we're about to discuss. We 27 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:20,760 are setting out on a three part journey. 28 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,599 Speaker 1: Okay, So first. 29 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:28,719 Speaker 2: We'll explore the factual, often mundane, but really immensely powerful 30 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,640 mechanisms that literally bury our past. We're talking about the 31 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,560 slow creep of geology, the accumulation of waste, and the intentional, 32 00:01:36,719 --> 00:01:38,719 hard decisions of city engineers. 33 00:01:38,799 --> 00:01:40,799 Speaker 1: And then we're going to jump head first right into 34 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,760 the deep end of internet lore. We're going to analyze 35 00:01:43,799 --> 00:01:48,959 this pervasive yet completely debunked pseudohistory known as the mud flood. 36 00:01:48,799 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: And the bizarre but very appealing myth of Tartaria, which 37 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,079 tries to explain all these buried buildings through one single, sudden, 38 00:01:56,079 --> 00:01:57,519 global catastrophic event. 39 00:01:57,599 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's part two. 40 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: And then finally we are to connect this whole theme 41 00:02:01,439 --> 00:02:06,400 of forgotten history and a race memory to a verified, massive, 42 00:02:06,519 --> 00:02:10,680 yet tragically overlooked, real world catastrophe from the nineteenth century. 43 00:02:10,599 --> 00:02:13,599 Speaker 1: And that will allow us to draw a pretty stark 44 00:02:14,159 --> 00:02:19,199 and necessary contrast, I think between the fabricated history people 45 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,719 seem to be seeking and the real, devastating history that 46 00:02:22,759 --> 00:02:23,719 we so often ignore. 47 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: Exactly. 48 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: Our stack of sources for this deep dive is as 49 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,919 diverse as the layers of history were digging through. We've 50 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,000 got well everything, a really lively, very pragmatic Reddit thread 51 00:02:34,319 --> 00:02:36,800 discussing the physics of city burial all. 52 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: The way up to academic research on the chronological evolution 53 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:41,840 of historical foundation engineering. 54 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: We've also drawn on a library of Congress deep dive 55 00:02:44,719 --> 00:02:49,080 on historical cartography, which is fascinating, analyzes of the Tartaria 56 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,039 Conspiracy from both the British Columbia Storical Federation and Bloomberg. 57 00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:58,319 Speaker 2: And crucially research on the nineteenth century global famine from 58 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,199 Columbia University's Lamont Door Already Earth Observatory. 59 00:03:01,319 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: That's a pretty wide range it is. 60 00:03:03,159 --> 00:03:06,159 Speaker 2: This is truly an exploration that forces us to reconcile 61 00:03:06,199 --> 00:03:08,319 what the ground is telling us, layer by layer, with 62 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,840 what are often incomplete or sometimes you know, deliberately filtered 63 00:03:11,879 --> 00:03:15,000 historical records actually claim we have to look down, deep 64 00:03:15,039 --> 00:03:16,759 down to really understand the past. 65 00:03:17,039 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: Okay, let's untack this starting with the cold, hard, accumulating facts. 66 00:03:21,879 --> 00:03:24,120 I guess we can call this section death by a 67 00:03:24,199 --> 00:03:28,000 thousand cuts, or maybe death by a billion dropped pieces 68 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:28,400 of litter. 69 00:03:28,479 --> 00:03:29,479 Speaker 2: That's probably more accurate. 70 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,479 Speaker 1: So when people look at an archway or you know, 71 00:03:31,479 --> 00:03:34,479 a basement window that's clearly buried two meters deep, their 72 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,759 minds immediately jump to these huge conclusions massive floods, earthquakes. 73 00:03:39,199 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: They dramatic events, right, But. 74 00:03:41,439 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: The sources are really clear on this. The primary mechanisms 75 00:03:45,159 --> 00:03:51,280 are actually incredibly mundane, gradual, and most importantly constant. 76 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: That's the key distinction, isn't it. It's this idea of 77 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,719 constant deposition versus deterioration. For an elevation to rise, material 78 00:03:58,759 --> 00:04:01,759 has to accumulate fast than it's removed by erosion or 79 00:04:01,919 --> 00:04:03,159 you know, human intervention. 80 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,039 Speaker 1: So the simple math problem really more stuff coming in 81 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:06,639 than going. 82 00:04:06,439 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: Out, basically. Yeah, And archaeologists, especially those working in the 83 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,840 Middle East and Anatolia, they have a specific term for 84 00:04:12,879 --> 00:04:17,639 the small hills created by centuries of this accumulated settlement material. 85 00:04:17,879 --> 00:04:18,639 They call it a tell. 86 00:04:18,879 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: A tell and a tel is essentially a mound that's 87 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,720 built entirely of human history. It's broken pottery collapsed walls, 88 00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:27,879 centuries of refuse. 89 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 2: It's history literally piling up on itself. 90 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:30,879 Speaker 1: Wow. 91 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 2: And what's really interesting is that it doesn't even need 92 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,399 human activity to get started. I mean, we're talking about 93 00:04:35,439 --> 00:04:37,240 just organic debris. 94 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,439 Speaker 1: And neglect, so just nature taking over exactly. 95 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: One of the sources was an anecdote from a Reddit 96 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,040 user mentioned to video showing a modern driveway that was 97 00:04:47,079 --> 00:04:51,879 eventually just lost. It disappeared under simple overgrowth and fallen leaves. 98 00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: I can believe that. 99 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 2: Constant cycle of growth, death and decomposition of organic matter 100 00:04:57,439 --> 00:05:01,319 over time, it just turns into new fertile soil. It 101 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:01,879 builds up. 102 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: I think we all have a garden sheder. You a 103 00:05:04,079 --> 00:05:06,480 corner of the yard where we've ignored leaf build up 104 00:05:06,519 --> 00:05:08,959 for a season or two, and you realize how quickly 105 00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:11,800 a little depression can fill in head. So multiply that 106 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,120 by a thousand years, and suddenly the logic just clicks 107 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:14,560 into place. 108 00:05:14,639 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And the natural analogy is so powerful here. If 109 00:05:17,519 --> 00:05:20,519 you abandon a site long enough, sooner or later, as 110 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,560 one source put it, your machi pichi is covered in jungle. 111 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: That doesn't require some catastrophic mudwight. 112 00:05:25,759 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: No, it just requires a lack of constant, dedicated maintenance 113 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,079 over centuries. If humans step away, nature starts that burial 114 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,680 process almost immediately. 115 00:05:34,879 --> 00:05:37,199 Speaker 1: Okay, so now let's bring humans back into the picture, 116 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,759 because this is where it gets pretty visceral, especially in 117 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,480 the context of ancient and medieval European cities. We have 118 00:05:45,519 --> 00:05:48,560 to talk about the role of waste. Yes, when we 119 00:05:48,639 --> 00:05:52,319 discuss urban centers that don't have modern sewer systems, which 120 00:05:52,439 --> 00:05:55,000 was the standard in antiquity all the way through the 121 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,399 early modern period, that waste had to go somewhere. 122 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,959 Speaker 2: And that somewhere was nine times out of ten, the street. 123 00:06:01,079 --> 00:06:04,439 We are talking about everything animal droppings from livestock and. 124 00:06:04,439 --> 00:06:06,759 Speaker 1: Transport horses, oxen, everything. 125 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,199 Speaker 2: Human waste from chamber pots, kitchen rubbish, food scraps, break 126 00:06:10,199 --> 00:06:14,360 in ceramics, you name it. This organic and inorganic material 127 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,399 just decayed, mixed with dust and it accumulated, literally creating 128 00:06:18,439 --> 00:06:19,319 new layers of dirt. 129 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: And I imagine it just compounded the problem of already 130 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:23,040 terrible roads. 131 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,439 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, when the streets became these deeply rudded muddy 132 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,759 measures during rainy seasons, especially with all that organic slot 133 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,800 mixed in city planners or just you know, regular property owners. 134 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,040 They didn't dig the sludge out. 135 00:06:37,199 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: That would be way too much work. 136 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,879 Speaker 2: It was too much effort, so they took the path 137 00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:43,560 of least resistance. They just threw down more earth, more 138 00:06:43,639 --> 00:06:45,680 sand or gravel right on top to make the roads 139 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,480 less muddy and more passable. 140 00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: So it's this continuous incremental infrastructure driven process. Yeah, every 141 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:54,600 single time they fixed the road, they were actually just 142 00:06:54,639 --> 00:06:55,920 adding to the layer cake. 143 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,199 Speaker 2: Of history, which means a ground level entrance that was 144 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,120 perfectly fine in say fourteen, by seventeen fifty one or 145 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,879 two steps under the new street level. 146 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:04,439 Speaker 1: Wow. 147 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,319 Speaker 2: And one source put it really bluntly, the accumulation is 148 00:07:07,519 --> 00:07:11,279 literally just people dropping litter or similar because systematic city 149 00:07:11,319 --> 00:07:14,560 wide waste disposal was simply not a priority compared to 150 00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:17,639 the immediate need to move goods and people. 151 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: Right, survival and commerce first. Cleanliness much later, much later, and. 152 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: This accumulation factor goes up significantly when we factor in demolition. 153 00:07:27,439 --> 00:07:30,319 When a building was destroyed, say by one of the 154 00:07:30,399 --> 00:07:34,839 frequent medieval city fires, or it just collapsed due to 155 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,439 poor foundational work. 156 00:07:36,399 --> 00:07:40,439 Speaker 1: It was far easier and cheaper to just level the 157 00:07:40,519 --> 00:07:43,240 rubble right, push it into the street, or a neighboring 158 00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:46,160 vacant lot and then build the news structure right on 159 00:07:46,199 --> 00:07:47,680 top of the old foundation. 160 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: Much easier than paying for the labor and transport required 161 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,360 to haul all that debris out of the city gates. 162 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: So villages and cities literally grew upwards, fueled by their 163 00:07:57,839 --> 00:08:00,000 own garbage and the ruins of previous jets. 164 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,399 Speaker 2: We have some fantastic, relatable anecdotal evidence for this from 165 00:08:04,439 --> 00:08:07,600 the sources in the UK. There's a specific church that 166 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,560 was mentioned that has been in continuous use and maintained 167 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,120 for approximately one thousand years. 168 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,319 Speaker 1: One thousand years, so they have been taken care of constantly. 169 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: But despite all that dedication, visitors today still have to 170 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,439 descend four or five steps from the modern street level 171 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,079 just to get to the churchyard. 172 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: So even with maintenance, the world rowse up around it. 173 00:08:25,199 --> 00:08:29,319 Speaker 2: Exactly That telltale accumulation happens around even the most actively 174 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,840 preserved sites. It's the surrounding infrastructure, the street that defines 175 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:34,759 the new elevation. 176 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,759 Speaker 1: Okay, so if gradual accumulation is this slow, almost geological process, 177 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,639 then intentional raising is the sudden surgical procedure where an 178 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,600 entire urban area just decided okay, everyone we are all 179 00:08:47,639 --> 00:08:48,480 going up together. 180 00:08:48,639 --> 00:08:53,039 Speaker 2: And these intentional efforts they usually occurred when basic infrastructure, 181 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,720 particularly sanitation, reached a critical breaking point. The most famous 182 00:08:57,759 --> 00:09:00,600 example in American history is, of course, should Cago in 183 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,320 the eighteen fifties and sixties. 184 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,399 Speaker 1: Tell us about the scale of that. It's just mind boggling, 185 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:04,960 it really is. 186 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,279 Speaker 2: Chicago was built on swampy ground and it had terrible 187 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,159 natural drainage. So after repeated epidemics and the realization that 188 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,519 their water table and their sewage were mixing not a 189 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,360 good combination, a very bad combination, they decided to implement 190 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:21,080 a full sewer system. But this required the streets to 191 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,000 be raised dramatically by as much as fourteen feet in 192 00:09:24,039 --> 00:09:26,720 some areas fourteen feet. But they didn't demolish the city. 193 00:09:27,039 --> 00:09:30,679 This is the amazing part. They used thousands of jackscrews 194 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:36,039 to literally raise hundreds of building, shops, hotels, entire blocks 195 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:37,279 up to the new street grid. 196 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:38,279 Speaker 1: It just lifted them. 197 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 2: It lifted them. Sometimes they'd even put them on wheels 198 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,279 and relocate them. It was a massive, documented engineering feet 199 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,279 driven entirely by the need for sanitation. 200 00:09:47,399 --> 00:09:50,799 Speaker 1: And fourteen feet is more than enough to completely bury 201 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:53,799 a ground floor and turn it into a sub basement. Absolutely, 202 00:09:54,039 --> 00:09:57,399 and Seattle has a similar story, but for in even 203 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:02,279 more let's say immediate reason, their famous underground. 204 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,759 Speaker 2: Seattle's history is wonderfully visceral. The original downtown camps were 205 00:10:06,759 --> 00:10:09,679 built right on the tidal plane, and the plumbing systems 206 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,240 were well rudimentary is a kind word. 207 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:13,919 Speaker 1: So what happened when the pie. 208 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: Came in the lower level toilets or literally just the 209 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,519 sewage and the pipes would flood, it would back up 210 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,200 into the buildings. It was a sanitation nightmare, driven entirely 211 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:23,120 by geography. 212 00:10:23,399 --> 00:10:26,759 Speaker 1: That's a powerful motivator for change, tidal backflow into your 213 00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:27,320 living room. 214 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: Indeed, it is. The solution was to move the entire 215 00:10:30,639 --> 00:10:34,440 city one floor higher. They've built these huge retaining walls, 216 00:10:34,519 --> 00:10:37,200 filled the streets in with earth, and elevated the. 217 00:10:37,159 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: Sidewalks, and today you can take a tour through that 218 00:10:40,279 --> 00:10:41,440 entire original city. 219 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,919 Speaker 2: You can. It's now the underground level, complete with original 220 00:10:44,919 --> 00:10:48,399 shopfronts and walkways, all sitting two meters beneath modern day 221 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:49,240 Pioneer Square. 222 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: So we've got slow waste build up, we have rapid 223 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,759 infrastructure overhaul, but geography itself is often the culprit right. 224 00:10:57,399 --> 00:11:02,639 We have to consider environmental factors likes and sediment deposition absolutely. 225 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,399 Speaker 2: Think about how cities historically chose their locations. They always 226 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:07,759 needed easy access to. 227 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:10,279 Speaker 1: Water, right for drinking, for transport, for. 228 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,399 Speaker 2: Everything, which often meant building on soft round wetlands, river floodplains, 229 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,720 or areas above shallow aquifers over centuries. Especially when that 230 00:11:18,759 --> 00:11:23,159 soil is saturated, it compresses it subsides, so the buildings. 231 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: Are literally sinking over long periods of time. 232 00:11:25,159 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 2: Yes, parts of Chicago still deal with this. Mexico City 233 00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:31,360 is a famous modern example. The ground is just compacting 234 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:31,960 under the weight. 235 00:11:32,159 --> 00:11:34,639 Speaker 1: And then there are cities that are just naturally situated 236 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,320 in what the source is call depositional zones. 237 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 2: This is critical for places like Rome. Cities near rivers 238 00:11:40,919 --> 00:11:44,480 or their deltas naturally accumulate sediment when those rivers flood. 239 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: It's just what rivers do, They carry silts exactly. 240 00:11:47,759 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 2: The Tiber in Rome, which was notorious for flooding, could 241 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,519 dump a meter of sediment in certain areas during a 242 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,480 major inundation. So faced with perpetual mud and rise and 243 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,759 ground levels, people had no choice. They had to repeatedly 244 00:12:00,799 --> 00:12:04,440 build up their entrances in their ground floors. Every flood 245 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,919 added a new, often thick layer to the historical record. 246 00:12:08,279 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: And finally, of course, we can't forget the impact of rapid, 247 00:12:12,279 --> 00:12:17,840 large scale destruction. Catastrophic events massive fires, repeated earthquakes or 248 00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:19,919 war resulted in tons and tons. 249 00:12:19,759 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: Of rubble, and as we noted, when you're rebuilding, it 250 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:24,759 was often just simplest to flatten the rubble and start 251 00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:27,559 the new foundation right on top of the old flattened ruins. 252 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: That's the most straightforward way an old ground floor becomes 253 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:31,000 a modern cellar. 254 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 2: It's the most direct path. 255 00:12:32,519 --> 00:12:36,799 Speaker 1: So okay, cities get buried through decay, bad infrastructure, or 256 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,480 local disasters. That seems to cover the vast majority of 257 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,679 the buried buildings we see worldwide. But here's the extraordinary quest. 258 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:51,320 Sometimes history isn't just passively buried, it's actively deliberately concealed. 259 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 2: This brings us to Goubuckley Tepe in Turkey. This is 260 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,879 the ultimate example of a pel but one that was 261 00:12:57,919 --> 00:13:01,960 created not by passive accumulation, but by conscious human effort, 262 00:13:02,159 --> 00:13:02,519 and it. 263 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,279 Speaker 1: Fundamentally challenges our deepest assumptions about the earliest human civilizations completely. 264 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,799 Speaker 2: For listeners who may not be familiar. Go Beckley Tepe 265 00:13:09,919 --> 00:13:13,120 is an archaeological site that's dated to around twelve thousand BCE. 266 00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:16,120 That's the pre Pottery Neolithic. 267 00:13:15,639 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: A period so incredibly ancient, incredibly. 268 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,159 Speaker 2: Before its discovery, the accepted academic narrative held that humans 269 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,279 at that time were nomadic hunter gatherers. They were organized 270 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,080 simply and thought to be incapable of large scale complex construction. 271 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: And Go Beckley Tappy just shatters that picture. 272 00:13:31,759 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: It does. It is enormous. It features these megalithic ornate 273 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:42,240 granite structures, massive carved t shaped pillars arranged in perfect circles. 274 00:13:42,799 --> 00:13:47,320 These were cathedrals, possibly dedicated to astronomical phenomena. 275 00:13:46,879 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: And build with a precision that's just stunning, a. 276 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 2: Precision in measuring true north that astounded researchers. It was 277 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,960 built by people we thought were still just chasing wild 278 00:13:56,039 --> 00:13:57,000 game with spears. 279 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: The structures predate Stonehenge by six thousand years, They predate 280 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:05,600 the Egyptian Pyramids by seven thousand years. It forced archaeologists 281 00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:08,200 to completely rewrite the timeline of civilization. 282 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,639 Speaker 2: It suggests that complex religion and monumental architecture may have 283 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,519 actually predated agriculture. Not followed it, which turns the whole 284 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:16,399 story on its head. 285 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: And here is the profound mystery at the heart of 286 00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:22,360 it all. After thousands of years of use, the people 287 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,519 who built it did something unprecedented. 288 00:14:24,559 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: He intentionally buried the entire site. 289 00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: They just covered it up completely. 290 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:32,679 Speaker 2: They concealed the ornate stonework, the pillars, the hieroglyphics beneath 291 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,240 tons and tons of earth. This wasn't decay or a flood. 292 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,679 It was a deliberate act of cultural erasure, and it 293 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,039 resulted in a hill that was later mistaken for a 294 00:14:42,159 --> 00:14:44,519 natural geological formation for millennia. 295 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:45,679 Speaker 1: Do we know why. 296 00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:49,639 Speaker 2: The specific reason for the burial remains unknown, and that 297 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,200 just adds to the mystery. Perhaps it was a shift 298 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,759 in religious practice, a desire to sanctify the area, or 299 00:14:55,799 --> 00:14:59,279 maybe maybe they needed to hide powerful knowledge. We just 300 00:14:59,480 --> 00:14:59,879 don't know. 301 00:15:00,399 --> 00:15:03,799 Speaker 1: Regardless of the motive that intentional burial, it bays a 302 00:15:03,879 --> 00:15:06,559 massive question about the fragility of history, doesn't it. 303 00:15:06,559 --> 00:15:07,279 Speaker 2: It absolutely does. 304 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: If a technologically sophisticated culture by twelve thousand BCE standards 305 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,600 at least, could completely conceal their most important cultural center, 306 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,279 how many other secrets, how many other sophisticated civilizations like 307 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,399 deliberately buried beneath the surface of our planet and beneath 308 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:23,960 the surface of our historical records. 309 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,639 Speaker 2: That precise lack of certainty, that possibility of a massive 310 00:15:27,679 --> 00:15:31,519 hidden past is the psychological and historical void that gives 311 00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:34,039 irresistible rise to the theories we're about to discuss. 312 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: All right, let's pivot now from verified archaeology and known 313 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,960 geological processes to the vast, sprawling and sometimes I have 314 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,360 to say, beautiful counter narrative found on the Internet, Because 315 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:48,799 when people find a buried building and they reject the 316 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,720 idea of gradual accumulation, the question they ask is, if 317 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,240 it wasn't slow dirt, what was it? 318 00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 2: And the Internet delivers an answer. Tartaria. 319 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: Tartaria. 320 00:15:57,279 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: This pseudohistory, which has been called the QAnon architecture by Bloomberg, 321 00:16:01,639 --> 00:16:05,759 is a conspiracy theory that's gained significant traction online precisely 322 00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:09,480 because it offers a single dramatic explanation for those partially 323 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:10,240 buried buildings. 324 00:16:10,559 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: What's the core claim? What is the story of Tartaria? 325 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: The core claim is that the Tartarian Empire was a lost, 326 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,159 technologically advanced global civilization, often characterized by free energy and 327 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:26,320 magnificent architecture that built these incredible structures worldwide, Okay, only 328 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,360 to be wiped out by a massive sudden mud flood 329 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,200 sometime between the eighteen hundreds and the early nineteen hundreds, 330 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,759 A single event, a single global event. Adherents use the 331 00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:40,759 very evidence we examined in Section one, the partially buried buildings, 332 00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:45,879 the sealed doors, arches, windows, several meters below modern ground level, 333 00:16:46,159 --> 00:16:48,639 and they claim these must have been the original ground 334 00:16:48,679 --> 00:16:51,720 floors of Tartarian structures and that they were buried by 335 00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:52,559 this cataclysm. 336 00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: And the focus is heavily on the elaborate nineteenth and 337 00:16:55,399 --> 00:17:00,879 early twentieth century architectural styles. Right, Yeah, neoclassical Bozart's Second Empire. 338 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. They claim iconic structures like the original New 339 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,000 York Penn Station, massive government buildings, and especially the temporary 340 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,039 structures of the nineteen fifteen Panama Pacific International Exposition were 341 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:13,519 actually Dartarnian and that. 342 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: Their real history was suppressed and replaced with these fabricated 343 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:18,480 construction timelines. 344 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 2: Right. The mechanism of erasure is critical to the theory. 345 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,599 It's either a global mud flood that covered vast swaths 346 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,880 of the planet, or it's a human led conspiracy. 347 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,039 Speaker 1: And who is usually blamed In that version. 348 00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: It often points the finger at secretive elites, sometimes including 349 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,480 the British Empire or other specific groups, who were supposedly 350 00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:40,880 jealous of Tartaria's peaceful, advanced society and therefore erased it 351 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,319 from the history books after the disaster. They argue that 352 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,240 basically all post sixteen hundred's history was fabricated to cover 353 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,279 up this massive global cataclysm. 354 00:17:50,519 --> 00:17:54,519 Speaker 1: That is an enormous historical revision. To claim that all cartography, 355 00:17:54,759 --> 00:17:58,839 all architectural records, all civil engineering history is essentially a 356 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,160 modern lie. But if the goal was complete e rasure, 357 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,119 why does the name Tartari actually appear on so many 358 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,000 historical maps. 359 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,079 Speaker 2: That's the perfect question. We have to start with the 360 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,880 historical cartography, because it actually provides the clearest debunking. The 361 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,039 name Tartary or Tartaria was never historically the political designation 362 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,960 for a unified, technologically advanced global empire, So what was it? 363 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,000 The sources, including detailed analyzes from the Library of Congress, 364 00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:27,759 confirmed that Tartari was a geographical convention. It was a 365 00:18:27,839 --> 00:18:30,400 term used by Europeans from the thirteenth to the nineteenth 366 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,599 century to vaguely refer to the massive, poorly mapped and 367 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,400 poorly understood regions of Central Asia and Siberia. 368 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:38,559 Speaker 1: So it was a label for here be dragons. 369 00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:42,759 Speaker 2: Essentially, it was a cartographic placeholder exactly. The term lingered 370 00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:46,119 long after the fragmentation of the Mongol Empire because European 371 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,359 cartographers just lacked reliable data for the interior of Eurasia, 372 00:18:50,839 --> 00:18:53,079 so they used tartary as a catch all label. It 373 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,119 wasn't a political recognition. 374 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,799 Speaker 1: And the word choice itself is fascinating. 375 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: It is the English term Tartary spelled with that extra R, 376 00:19:00,759 --> 00:19:04,119 is a deliberate conflation. The Turkic group is the Tatar 377 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,720 with one R. European writers intentionally confused this with the 378 00:19:08,759 --> 00:19:11,599 ancient Greek underworld Tartarus. 379 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: So they were basically calling it hell on Earth. 380 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:19,559 Speaker 2: That confusion immediately added an ominous, uncivilized and savage connotation 381 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,079 to the region in the European mind. This single spelling 382 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,000 choice imbued the name with centuries of negative association, which 383 00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:31,480 completely undermines the conspiracy theories premise of some peaceful, advanced 384 00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:32,599 utopian empire. 385 00:19:32,839 --> 00:19:34,839 Speaker 1: And if you look at the actual historical maps the 386 00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:39,039 boundaries of Tartary are I mean, they're ridiculously inconsistent. 387 00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:42,279 Speaker 2: All over the place. Ortelius in fifteen seventy showed it 388 00:19:42,319 --> 00:19:45,519 as a single, massive region, but by seventeen fifty seven 389 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,319 Guillomdedel's map had broken it down into these fragmented regions 390 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:53,200 like Muscovite Tartary, Chinese Tartary, and Independent Tartary. 391 00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: That ambiguity is proof against a unified empire, not for 392 00:19:57,039 --> 00:19:58,119 it exactly. 393 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,279 Speaker 2: You don't label a centralized government with such inconsistent, fragmented, 394 00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:08,359 and geographically motivated names. And the actual Tatars are Turkic peoples, 395 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,880 descendants of the Golden Horde, who still live across Eastern 396 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,000 Europe and Russia today. They are a cultural group, not 397 00:20:14,319 --> 00:20:16,920 the ruling class of a lost global superpower. 398 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: Okay, let's get back to the physical evidence, the alleged 399 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,200 proof of this sudden global mud flood catastrophe in the 400 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:24,039 eighteen hundreds. 401 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 2: Geologically, this is where the theory just completely collapses. A 402 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,680 global mud catastrophe on the scale required to bury buildings 403 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,400 across continents in the eighteen hundreds would leave clear, unambiguous 404 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,240 and uniform geological. 405 00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: Signatures worldwide, and we just don't see them. 406 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,799 Speaker 2: We don't, there's nothing. What we see is exactly what 407 00:20:40,839 --> 00:20:45,039 we established in Section one local gradual processes of accumulations, 408 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:46,720 subsidence and purposeful reaising. 409 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,519 Speaker 1: So what about the alleged buried ground floors, the windows 410 00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:53,839 and doors that are half submerged. That's the visual proof 411 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:54,640 that people point to. 412 00:20:54,920 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 2: They are overwhelmingly basements, specifically what architects refer to as 413 00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:04,400 daylight basements or English backyards. This is a crucial detail 414 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,079 that the conspiracy theory completely misinterprets. 415 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: Can you elaborate on that? What does a daylight basement 416 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,559 actually look like? And why would it have windows if 417 00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:13,359 it's underground? 418 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,759 Speaker 2: Certainly, in nineteenth century architecture, these floors were designed to 419 00:21:17,799 --> 00:21:20,839 be partially below grade but still very functional. They weren't 420 00:21:20,839 --> 00:21:21,519 intended for. 421 00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: Living quarters, so what were they for? 422 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 2: They were for service access, the laundry, the kitchen, coal delivery, servants, entrances, storage, 423 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,039 and all of these functions required light and air. So 424 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,720 small windows, often high up on the wall and sometimes 425 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,839 surrounded by small excavated wells or areas, were included in 426 00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:39,279 the design. 427 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: So they weren't trying to hide the floor. They were 428 00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:44,319 using it for service access, which just needed ventilation and 429 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:45,000 natural light. 430 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 2: Precisely, the original intention was for that small window to 431 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,279 allow light in while still keeping the main public entrance 432 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,880 a few steps above street level for esthetic reasons. 433 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: Right. And when the street level outside gradually rose over 434 00:21:58,279 --> 00:22:00,759 fifty or one hundred years, yeah, due to garbage and 435 00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:01,839 street leveling. 436 00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:03,319 Speaker 2: As happened in every major city. 437 00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: Those small windows and service entrances became partially or completely buried. 438 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,440 It's localized, common architectural history, not a global catastrophe. 439 00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 2: It's as simple as that. 440 00:22:13,519 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: Now, I have to admit one element of the Tartaria 441 00:22:16,319 --> 00:22:19,480 theory is genuinely thought provoking, and this is what some 442 00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:24,359 people call the infrastructure paradox. The adherents ask why would 443 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,920 early American or Australian settlers, who supposedly lacked basic infrastructure, 444 00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:33,240 build these enormous, lavish, highly detailed buildings like the massive 445 00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:36,599 six hundred and six acre Chicago World's Fair structures and 446 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,680 have them surrounded by nothing but unpaved dirt roads. 447 00:22:39,839 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 2: It's a legitimate question why the immense investment in architectural 448 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,920 spectacle without a corresponding investment in public works like sewage, 449 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:47,960 roads and utilities. 450 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: So what's the real answer If it's not they found them. 451 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 2: There, The answer provided by historians speaks to the early 452 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,559 realities of capitalism and rapid industrialization. How so, well, this 453 00:22:57,599 --> 00:23:01,200 is classic evidence of the prioritization of individual projects over 454 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,680 public infrastructure. If you are a wealthy merchant, a powerful bank, 455 00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:09,680 or a major institution, you invest heavily in the most extravagant, 456 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,839 massive structure in town to project power and maximize your profit. 457 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,920 You prioritize that spectacular architecture. 458 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:22,319 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, investing in comprehensive, expensive public works like paved roads 459 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:23,799 and sewage systems. 460 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 2: It benefits everyone equally, which means the powerful institutions often 461 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,720 skimp on those taxes and investments. It's the prioritization of 462 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:32,880 the private spectacle over public comfort. 463 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,319 Speaker 1: And what about the speed of construction. Adherents claim settlers 464 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,920 couldn't possibly build something like the Chicago World Fare in 465 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,200 less than two years. 466 00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:44,319 Speaker 2: And history shows that when societies prioritize an intense, large 467 00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:48,799 scale project, often using massive labor forces and importantly cheap 468 00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:52,880 temporary materials like plaster and wood for those exposition structures, 469 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,160 they can accomplish staggering feats very rapidly, so. 470 00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: They weren't built to last forever exactly. 471 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,319 Speaker 2: The existence of photographs and detailed historical records confirms this 472 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,000 construction happened exactly when and how our history books say 473 00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:06,400 it did. 474 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: Ultimately, these theories spread because they rely on this concept 475 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,559 of stigmatized knowledge. They appeal to a listener's skepticism about 476 00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:16,640 the official narrative. 477 00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:20,279 Speaker 2: Yes, the belief that the true history has been intentionally 478 00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:24,680 suppressed by some elite cabal becomes for adherence, proof of 479 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,240 the theory's validity. If the establishment dismisses it, while they 480 00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:31,240 must be hiding something. It creates a feedback loop that 481 00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:33,000 protects the theory from facts. 482 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: And this is where the danger lies, isn't it. While 483 00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:40,279 Tartaria starts as an architectural curiosity, this reliance on an 484 00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:43,680 omin present secretive elite can lead followers to connect the 485 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,640 theory to far more harmful narratives. 486 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 2: Yes, often anti Semitic ones like the Great Replacement theory 487 00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:52,039 or claims about wealthy families being responsible for historical cover up. 488 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,839 That connection is heavily documented in the source material. 489 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: It highlights why active counter strategies are so important. 490 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,799 Speaker 2: It does because these theories appeal to emotion and traditional 491 00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:05,039 debunking just stating the facts often doesn't work. We should 492 00:25:05,039 --> 00:25:08,960 be focused more on pre bunking. What's that, preemptively teaching 493 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,480 critical thinking skills and building resistance to disinformation before a 494 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,759 person encounters the specific conspiracy. 495 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,319 Speaker 1: So we've established that the ground accumulates material, sometimes intentionally, 496 00:25:20,599 --> 00:25:23,119 and that the fantasy of a mud flood relies on 497 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,599 misinterpreting common architectural elements. Now let's go back to the 498 00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:31,759 world of concrete piles and human ingenuity and see how 499 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,759 real engineers fought the slow, relentless sink of history. 500 00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 2: A crucial pivot. 501 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: Yes, we focused on why cities get buried. Now we 502 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,000 examine how builders and engineers, starting six thousand years ago 503 00:25:44,319 --> 00:25:47,400 tried to prevent their structures from sinking, tilting, or collapsing 504 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,599 in the first place. This is a chronological evolution of 505 00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:51,799 structural thinking. 506 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 2: And it's an exploration of the fundamental distinction that early 507 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,519 builders had to slowly learn, the difference between a foundation 508 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,599 with a compositional function and one with a mechanical function. 509 00:26:01,759 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? 510 00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:05,599 Speaker 2: Early on foundations were mostly about getting things level and 511 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,279 looking right. It was about esthetics. Only much much later 512 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,559 did they become about resisting geological forces and spreading the 513 00:26:12,599 --> 00:26:13,400 load of the building. 514 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,319 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's start at the very beginning, the first 515 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,920 shallow foundations or footings. 516 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: The origin of these foundations coincides with the erection of 517 00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:26,559 the first megalithic structures around four thousand BC. The embedded 518 00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:30,079 block of stone was the initial breakthrough. Belders realized that 519 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,119 by excavating a pit they could use leverage to tip 520 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,039 a heavy stone block from horizontal to vertical. 521 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,079 Speaker 1: So digging a hole wasn't initially a structural requirement. It 522 00:26:40,079 --> 00:26:43,279 was a construction method, a way to stabilize and set. 523 00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 2: The stone exactly. The excavation served a compositional function. It 524 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,119 allowed them to achieve stability and crucially, to establish a level, 525 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,359 horizontal plane at the top of the stone. This was 526 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,200 essential for the origin of post and lenttal architecture. It 527 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,519 was all about leveling the base, not necessarily finding bedrock. 528 00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: And then next we see stone pedestals, which coincide with 529 00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:05,400 the appearance of true columns. 530 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,759 Speaker 2: These pedestals served a dual role. They were constructionally useful 531 00:27:09,799 --> 00:27:14,319 for fixing the column's position and ensuring horizontal alignment across 532 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,119 a series of columns. And they were visually important, adding 533 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,799 scale and dignity. But they weren't mechanical foundations in the 534 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:25,880 modern sense. Why not because they were typically small in 535 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,799 surface area and insufficient in depth. They didn't effectively spread 536 00:27:29,799 --> 00:27:33,039 the load over a wider area of soil, nor did 537 00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:37,359 they transmit that load deep into the ground. Similarly, early 538 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,880 trench foundations under walls were often just used for setting 539 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,400 out and leveling the walls, especially if the ground was 540 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,279 already firm or rocky. 541 00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:48,759 Speaker 1: So the mechanical function, the ability to resist sheer force 542 00:27:48,839 --> 00:27:51,960 or settlement, was often ignored or just secondary. 543 00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 2: It was an afterthought, if it was a thought at all. 544 00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:57,079 Speaker 1: It seems like it's the constant presence of soft soil 545 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,559 and water that forces engineers to stop worrying about composition 546 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:01,920 and start thinking mechanically. 547 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 2: That's the driver of innovation. It leads to the development 548 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,200 of rafts and. 549 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: Deep foundations, So tell me about rafts. 550 00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:10,839 Speaker 2: The first signs of raft foundations emerged from what were 551 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:16,319 called elevated plints. Initially, these plints were purely compositional, a 552 00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:20,400 raised platform to emphasize a building's importance like a temple. 553 00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:22,839 Speaker 1: They were just showing off the building stature, putting it 554 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:23,960 on a tetestyl right. 555 00:28:24,319 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 2: But around eight hundred BC these evolved to incorporate real stonemasonry, 556 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,680 creating true mechanical foundation structures. This created a solid, continuous 557 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,400 base that spread the load of the entire building over 558 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,960 a wider surface area of weak soil, which helped resist 559 00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:42,079 differential settlement. 560 00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: And when the ground was truly swampy or a water 561 00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:47,599 logged like in bog lands, that's where we see the 562 00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:50,160 timber solutions, right, the grillages and the piles. 563 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,119 Speaker 2: Yes, and the antecedents of timber grillages are fascinating. They 564 00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:56,759 come from the primitive lake dwellings in the Danubian region 565 00:28:56,839 --> 00:29:00,839 during the Neolithic period. Initially, builders use log plints for 566 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,559 insulation and reinforcement against dampness, just making the floor walkable 567 00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:05,759 in a wet environment, so. 568 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,839 Speaker 1: They were utilitarian at first, just keeping the floor dry, But. 569 00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:12,559 Speaker 2: By three thousand BC these had evolved into true timber 570 00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:16,640 grillages supporting vertical elements. These were placed directly on the 571 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,599 soft ground were supported over piles in the water, demonstrating 572 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,720 a clear evolution from a simple protective layer to a 573 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:30,160 real load bearing foundation designed explicitly for difficult wet geotechnical. 574 00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: Conditions, and the piles themselves became incredibly sophisticated for their time. 575 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:36,359 Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely. The sources show that by thirteen hundred BC, 576 00:29:36,839 --> 00:29:39,559 the need to support these lake dwellings on soft ground 577 00:29:39,759 --> 00:29:43,720 had fostered accurate knowledge of deep pile foundations. We see 578 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,720 the use of composite piles, sometimes reaching twelve or thirteen 579 00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:50,119 meters in length, and specific treatments for the wood. They 580 00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:52,119 would carve the tips of the piles to penetrate the 581 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,880 lake bed more easily, and they often hardened those tips 582 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,000 by fire, making them more resistant to rot and impact. 583 00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:00,799 Speaker 1: So the Romans they were faced with the u unique problem. 584 00:30:01,359 --> 00:30:05,279 These massive heavy building projects often required an unsuitable ground, 585 00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:08,559 especially as they expanded into places like northern Italy and 586 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,440 Gaul where they couldn't find a solid bottom or bedrock 587 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:12,480 at a reasonable depth. 588 00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 2: This is a scenario where the previous methods would just fail, 589 00:30:16,039 --> 00:30:19,720 and it prompted one of their great constructional successes, what's 590 00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:20,759 called the stake solution. 591 00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: The spake solution. 592 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,519 Speaker 2: They developed this widespread technique of driving closely packed timber 593 00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:30,400 stakes deep into the soft, wet soil before laying any 594 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,599 masonry or concrete foundations. 595 00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:35,799 Speaker 1: What was the engineering brilliance of that method? What did 596 00:30:35,839 --> 00:30:36,400 it achieve? 597 00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 2: It achieved three things at once, all without extensive, expensive 598 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:44,839 excavation where water was present. One, the close driving of 599 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,599 the stakes aggressively compacted the soil. Two it inserted high 600 00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:51,960 resistance material, the durable wood, deep into the ground. And 601 00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:54,920 three it greatly increased the depth of support. 602 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: So the steaks acted as friction piles basically. 603 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: Yes relying on the grip of the soil along their 604 00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:02,319 length to carry the load, or they transferred the load 605 00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:05,880 to a deeper, firmer stratum. It was a rapid, efficient 606 00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:08,880 and highly effective solution for challenging sites. 607 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,599 Speaker 1: And it proved so successful that it spread throughout the 608 00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:13,240 entire Roman Empire and. 609 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 2: Became foundational knowledge. We see its application much later in 610 00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:21,799 history too. Cities built on marshy land, famously Venice and 611 00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:26,319 particularly Amsterdam, rely heavily on similar systems of deeply driven 612 00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:29,559 timber piles to support their heavy historic architecture. 613 00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: The Romans also brought material innovation to the table with 614 00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:33,440 plain concrete. 615 00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 2: They did they introduced plain concrete made on site with 616 00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:41,680 local mortar and stones for foundation structures. Initially, this was 617 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,400 an economic decision. It offered significant savings and materials in 618 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,559 labor compared to quarrying and setting massive stone or brick blocks, 619 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,559 especially for deep foundations. It allowed them to build bigger, deeper, 620 00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:54,119 and faster. 621 00:31:54,599 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: Now let's turn to the medieval period, which it seems 622 00:31:57,359 --> 00:31:58,960 was a period of forgotten lessons. 623 00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:02,119 Speaker 2: It really was a step backward in terms of theoretical rigor. 624 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,640 From the fall of Rome until the fifteenth century, foundation 625 00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:10,319 construction slowed significantly, resources were scarce, the means were simpler, 626 00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:15,400 and crucially, medieval builders often ignored the mechanical problems, specifically 627 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,160 the actual magnitude of the load they were imposing or 628 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,799 the specific nature of the soil beneath the footing. 629 00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: They reverted to that compositional mindset of the ancients. 630 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,839 Speaker 2: It just had to look right, they did, and this 631 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,200 care free attitude, as one source called it, was the 632 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,240 principal cause of the frequent movements, cracks, and collapses we 633 00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:37,599 see in so many tall medieval buildings, like the great 634 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,200 towers and cathedrals that leaned and failed across Europe. 635 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,519 Speaker 1: It wasn't until the Renaissance around the fifteenth century that 636 00:32:44,599 --> 00:32:48,200 we saw the first written rules for foundation sizing appear 637 00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:49,680 in architectural treatises. 638 00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 2: But even those rules, while a step forward, were based 639 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,640 on assumption, not measurement. Until the eighteenth century, the foundational 640 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,319 flaw remained the inability to accurately avowuate the actual load 641 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,000 of the structure and the critical soil parameters. Builders would 642 00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:08,000 base footing sizes exclusively on the width of the wall 643 00:33:08,039 --> 00:33:11,599 being supported, not the load being born or the soil quality. 644 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: So these rules were more like declarations of intent rather 645 00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:17,400 than practical engineering rooted in physics. 646 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 2: That's a perfect description. The real, profound shift toward modern 647 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,000 geotechnical engineering finally arrived in the eighteenth century. 648 00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:26,319 Speaker 1: This is the critical turning point in the history of 649 00:33:26,359 --> 00:33:27,079 fighting the sink. 650 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 2: It is this is when site investigation transforms from guesswork 651 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,359 into science. The introduction of the first known dynamic penetrometer, 652 00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:40,039 invented by Nicholas Goldman in the seventeenth century and constructed 653 00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:43,319 by others in sixteen ninety nine, was revolutionary. Why was 654 00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:47,039 this instrument so crucial because it allowed engineers for the 655 00:33:47,079 --> 00:33:51,000 first time to measure the ground's resistance to penetration at depth. 656 00:33:51,599 --> 00:33:54,720 Before this, you could only judge soil quality by digging 657 00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:58,160 and looking, or by trial and error. But the penetrometer 658 00:33:58,279 --> 00:34:02,400 provided actual, quantitative, repeatable data on the ground's resistance. 659 00:34:02,519 --> 00:34:05,119 Speaker 1: So you had numbers, you had data, you had data. 660 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,559 Speaker 2: This measurement the ground's actual strength became the essential verifiable 661 00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:13,159 data point for evaluating soil quality, especially for major buildings 662 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:16,400 near water. It was the moment foundation design became a 663 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,840 fully fledged field of engineering built on measurement, not just tradition. 664 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: We've now covered the gradual, factual reasons for city burial. 665 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,920 We've debunked the fantasy of the mud flood, and we've 666 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,440 explored the long, hard effort by engineers to build structures 667 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,400 that resist that sink. Now we turn to something that 668 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,519 is arguably more catastrophic, yet equally buried in memory. 669 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 2: And that's a very important shift. 670 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: We've spent a lot of time discussing how conspiracy theories 671 00:34:40,519 --> 00:34:44,760 claim a massive fictional catastrophe the mud flood erased history. 672 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,559 We're now going to take that concept of a raised 673 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:51,400 memory and anchor it to a massive, verified, real world 674 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,360 event that is often stunningly overlooked by Western historical narratives 675 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,519 the global famine of eighteen seventy six eighteen seventy eight. 676 00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 2: The scale of this disaster just demand's attention because it's 677 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,880 so frequently omitted from our collective historical timeline. The research 678 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,400 from Columbia University's Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory frames this famine 679 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,599 as one of the worst humanitarian disasters in recorded history. 680 00:35:13,679 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 1: The numbers are just staggering. The sources estimate that this 681 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,880 event killed up to fifty million people worldwide. 682 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:19,599 Speaker 2: Fifty million. 683 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: To put that in perspective, that death toll rivals the 684 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,039 entirety of World War II or the nineteen eighteen nineteen 685 00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:28,920 nineteen influenza epidemic. It is a calamity of immense proportions. 686 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,960 Yet if you ask most people about the great disasters 687 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,440 of the eighteen seventies, they would likely draw a blank. 688 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,599 Speaker 2: And this wasn't a localized event like the Irish potato famine. 689 00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:40,519 It was truly global. There were widespread synchronous crop failures 690 00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:43,519 and droughts across Asia, Africa, and Brazil. 691 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,679 Speaker 1: A global cascade. 692 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,519 Speaker 2: The event often called the Great Drought, was actually a 693 00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:52,519 sequence of linked droughts. It started with the catastrophic failure 694 00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:55,960 of India's eighteen seventy five monsoon season, and then it 695 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,440 spread rapidly to East Asia, South Africa, Northern Africa, and 696 00:36:00,559 --> 00:36:01,519 northeastern Brazil. 697 00:36:02,039 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: The fact that a catastrophe of this magnitude fifty million 698 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,159 lives lost can be so thoroughly neglected by global memory 699 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,239 is profound. It demonstrates that history can be actively ignored, 700 00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:17,079 not intentionally suppressed by some cabal but just overlooked when 701 00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:19,760 it happens to the populations that the ruling powers deem 702 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,400 less important. That's a crucial point. So what triggered this 703 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,199 enormous and synchronous global climate collapse. 704 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,159 Speaker 2: The immediate trigger was a drought link to arguably the 705 00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:32,880 most extreme manifestation of the al Nino climate cycle ever recorded. 706 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,960 El Nino is a recurring warming pattern in the tropical Pacific, 707 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,960 but this specific event was just extraordinarily intense, causing widespread 708 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,280 weather disruption, and the. 709 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: Climate effects didn't stay contained in the Pacific. They cascaded 710 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,079 across the globe. 711 00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 2: Right, that's right, The extreme El Nino event triggered a 712 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,639 domino effect across other oceanic climate systems. It led to 713 00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:57,920 the warmest known North Atlantic temperatures and critically the strongest 714 00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,440 known Indian Ocean dipole. 715 00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: We have to pause there because the term Indian ocean 716 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,840 dipole is highly technical. What does that mean in simple 717 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,920 terms and why was it so devastating? 718 00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 2: Think of it as a huge seesaw effect in the 719 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,920 Indian Ocean. The dipole is the extreme temperature difference between 720 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,760 the western and eastern sides of the ocean basin Okay. 721 00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:19,559 When the dipole is strong, the western side of the 722 00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:24,559 Indian Ocean gets very warm water, leading to intense rainfall there. Conversely, 723 00:37:24,599 --> 00:37:28,920 the eastern side, which affects India, Indonesia and Australia, experiences 724 00:37:29,039 --> 00:37:33,840 massive cooling and devastating drought conditions. This violent opposition of 725 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,920 ocean temperatures is what compounded the Il Ninu, leading to 726 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,239 droughts in Brazil and Australia, all happening at the same 727 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,480 time as the Indian disaster. 728 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: So climate was the trigger, a natural phenomenon but amplified. 729 00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:50,079 But as we know, natural disasters don't automatically create famines. 730 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:51,599 Political structures do. 731 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 2: Precisely, and this is the crucial finding of the Columbia 732 00:37:55,519 --> 00:37:59,599 University research. The death toll was severely amplified by this 733 00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:03,920 soci year economic conditions of the Victorian colonial world. The 734 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,880 climate provided the trigger, but colonialism provided the vulnerability. 735 00:38:08,159 --> 00:38:10,679 Speaker 1: Can we get into the specifics of how the policies 736 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,760 amplified the death toll drawing on the. 737 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 2: Sources absolutely, The research highlights the stark reality of British 738 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,639 colonial governance in India at the time. Despite massive crop 739 00:38:20,679 --> 00:38:25,280 failure and starvation across the subcontinent, the colonial administration implemented 740 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,480 strict less affair economic. 741 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: Policies, so they just let the market handle it. 742 00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 2: They did. They were hoarding and exporting millions of tons 743 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,079 of grains, specifically wheat, which was seen as necessary for 744 00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:38,119 the maintenance of the British economy and military supplies out 745 00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:40,639 of India, even while the population was starving. 746 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: So the food was physically present, but it was being extracted, 747 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:44,679 not distributed. 748 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,559 Speaker 2: It was a failure driven by a market ideology that 749 00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:52,559 was prioritized over human life. This massive colonial extraction not 750 00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:57,039 only starved millions, but also severely weakened the remaining population, 751 00:38:57,639 --> 00:39:02,039 making them highly susceptible to epidemic diseases like cholera and smallpox, 752 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,360 which swept through the vulnerable communities afterward, the vulnerability was 753 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:07,039 man made. 754 00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:11,599 Speaker 1: It's a powerful argument that the real, unacknowledged catastrophe wasn't 755 00:39:11,639 --> 00:39:14,480 just the al Nino, it was the political structure that 756 00:39:14,559 --> 00:39:16,199 dictated who lived and who died. 757 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 2: Indeed, Mike Davis, who was a co author of the study, 758 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,960 noted that the al nino and climate events of eighteen 759 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,880 seventy six seventy eight helped create the global inequalities that 760 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,719 would later be characterized as First and Third worlds. 761 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: Wow. 762 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,519 Speaker 2: The trauma of this period and the resulting economic subjugation 763 00:39:33,039 --> 00:39:36,440 essentially cemented the unequal global order that persisted throughout the 764 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,880 twentieth century. The famine wasn't just a historical event, it 765 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,880 was a foundational moment of geopolitical stratification. 766 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,079 Speaker 1: The historical findings about the eighteen seventy six seventy eight 767 00:39:46,159 --> 00:39:49,239 famine carry an incredibly urgent warning for the modern world. 768 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 2: They do because the initial cause, the extreme al Nino 769 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:57,119 and its global knock on effects, arose from natural climate variability. 770 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,800 A similar global scale event could happen again. We are 771 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,599 not immune to the cyclical forces that caused this disaster, and. 772 00:40:04,559 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 1: That warning is severely intensified by human driven climate change. 773 00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 2: Yes, the scientists worn that rising greenhouse gas concentrations and 774 00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:16,000 global warming are projected to intensify al Nino events. This 775 00:40:16,159 --> 00:40:20,119 means that such widespread, simultaneous droughts could become even more 776 00:40:20,199 --> 00:40:22,960 severe in the future. We are building a world where 777 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,960 the trigger is more likely and more potent. 778 00:40:25,639 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: And while we no longer live under the exact socio 779 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,440 political structure of Victorian colonialism, our modern global food network 780 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,639 presents a different kind of vulnerability. 781 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,159 Speaker 2: That high connectivity is a double edged sword, isn't it. 782 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,239 While it allows for rapid distribution, it also means that 783 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,760 a failure in one region, especially simultaneous failures across multiple 784 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,440 major food baskets like Asia, Brazil and Australia, would cause 785 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,119 severe shocks and economic curmoil across the entire global system. 786 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,039 Speaker 1: It would amplify local food and security in already vulnerable countries. 787 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,199 Speaker 2: Leading to scarcity, conflict, and migration. The lessons of the 788 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,679 eighteen seventies about synchronized climate disaster are more relevant now 789 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:03,639 than ever before. 790 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: This deep dive has truly taken us into the ground 791 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,320 and through the layers of history. We started with the slow, 792 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,159 factual burial of our ancient cities caused by everything from 793 00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:18,840 dumped rubbish and rising street levels to intentional urban elevation 794 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,679 projects in Chicago and Seattle. 795 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,639 Speaker 2: We contrasted that reality with the fast, fantastical explanation of 796 00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:27,480 the mud flood and the Tartaria conspiracy, noting how the 797 00:41:27,519 --> 00:41:31,079 appeal of a hidden history often masks a simply reality 798 00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:35,719 of misinterpreting architectural function and poor historical cartography. 799 00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: And we connect to that fantasy to the real historical 800 00:41:38,159 --> 00:41:42,840 ingenuity demonstrated by engineers who since four thousand BC strove 801 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,320 to overcome the challenges of soft ground with everything from 802 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,320 Roman friction stakes to the revolutionary eighteenth century dynamic penetrometer. 803 00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 2: Finally, we ended by reflecting on the massive, verified historical 804 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,079 catastrophe of the Global famine, and this demonstrates that real 805 00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:00,559 history can be far more catastrophic, claiming fifty fifty million 806 00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:05,280 lives and fundamentally shaping global inequality, yet be equally forgotten 807 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,920 and omitted from our collective cultural memory than any conspiracy theory. 808 00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 1: This contrast between the history that is physically buried and 809 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,360 the history that is culturally erased, it raises a crucial 810 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,920 point about where we direct our attention. Gubigly Tepe was 811 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,639 intentionally buried and forgotten by its own builders. The Global 812 00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:26,599 famine was largely overlooked by Western historians, despite its immense 813 00:42:26,679 --> 00:42:27,519 global impact. 814 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 2: So we have to ask ourselves, if we know that 815 00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:33,039 historical records are fragile and that people often forget the 816 00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:36,519 worst global events quickly, should our energy be focused on 817 00:42:36,559 --> 00:42:41,039 debunking sensationalized hidden histories, or should we be working harder 818 00:42:41,079 --> 00:42:43,519 to preserve the memory and the lessons of the real 819 00:42:43,679 --> 00:42:46,719 catastrophic events that fundamentally shape the modern world we live 820 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:47,159 in today. 821 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: It's a profound question about historical accountability and collective memory. 822 00:42:51,039 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 2: Indeed, it forces us to examine our priorities regarding the past. 823 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: So here is our final question for you, the listener. 824 00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:00,960 What current global issue or disaster, whether it's an ongoing 825 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,199 slow motion crisis or a sudden massive event, do you 826 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,280 think future generations might struggle to believe or remember accurately? 827 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,039 And why let us know what you think of the comments. 828 00:43:11,079 --> 00:43:12,920 We want to hear your thoughts on what history we 829 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,679 might be actively forgetting right now.