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See website for detail. 49 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:03.239 Radio. 50 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.800 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 51 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:18.919 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 52 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:26.240 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 53 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:29.960 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 54 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.280 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 55 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:38.159 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 56 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:55.360 Good Evening. In nineteen ninety nine, the body of Hayman 57 00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:59.439 Lee was found in a shallow grave in Baltimore's Leacoln Park. 58 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:06.439 Six weeks later, her ex boyfriend Adnon Sayd was arrested 59 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:10.719 and charged with her murder. The state's case against Syed 60 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:14.759 hinged entirely on the testimony of Jay Wilds, who said 61 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:16.919 that he had been with Syd on the day of 62 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:19.759 the murder and that he had assisted with the burial 63 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:24.520 in Lincoln Park. At trial, the prosecutor argued that although 64 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:29.719 Wilds had repeatedly given false and inconsistent statements concerning the crime, 65 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:35.319 his story was corroborated by Adnan's cell phone records. Said 66 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:38.280 was convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to life 67 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:43.240 in prison. Wilds pleaded guilty to accessory after the fact 68 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:49.439 and was released without serving a day in prison. Last year, 69 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:53.759 the creators of This American Life covered Syd's story in 70 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:59.199 the popular podcast serial. In order to better visualize the 71 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:02.759 events that were being described on the show, attorney Susan 72 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:06.520 Simpson put together a series of maps comparing the location 73 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:09.439 data from the cell records with the various witness statements 74 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:12.800 concerning the location of the phone throughout the day on 75 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:17.759 which Haylee was murdered. The results showed just how fragmented 76 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:22.199 and incoherent the prosecution's case was, as none of Wilde's 77 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:26.240 multiple stories can be reconciled with the cell phone data. 78 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:29.759 It also highlighted many of the gaps in the prosecution's 79 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:33.680 evidence and showed how numerous witnesses who could potentially have 80 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:40.160 confirmed or denied Jay's stories were never contacted by investigators. 81 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.319 The focus of the program This Evening is serial the 82 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:51.040 Ongoing Story with my special guest, attorney and blogger Susan Simpson, 83 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:55.800 and I would say welcome to the program, Susan Simpson, 84 00:04:55.879 --> 00:05:00.560 but there may be some technical difficulty. I apollogize to 85 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:03.480 all the critics who bring it up that I should 86 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.639 be editing this portion of the program. I hope to 87 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:12.040 God for everyone's sake. Susan comes on right away. I 88 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:15.399 gotta say, sometimes it just are even problems on this 89 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.439 end technically on blog talk radio, trying to maintain a 90 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:22.920 thousand programs at one time simultaneously, I believe, or at 91 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:29.240 least hundreds of programs simultaneously. So sometimes that technology goes away. 92 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:35.480 Sometimes there are other problems. But that is a problem 93 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.279 that occurs occasionally, and so we may be having that 94 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:43.720 right now for those of you have lived on another planet, 95 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:48.120 I guess, but not everyone is aware of. Here we go, 96 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:58.079 Thank God. Susan Simpson. Good evening, Susan Simpson. Hello, thank 97 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.519 you very much for agreeing to this interview. Did the 98 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:03.879 intro and I was telling the audience that we were 99 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:07.240 waiting for you to connect and sometimes they're just technical difficulties. 100 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:09.319 But welcome to the program, and thank you for greening 101 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:11.480 this interview. Susan Simpson. 102 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:14.480 Thanks for having me. I got the Scott figured out finally. 103 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:18.000 Ah, thank you, thank you very much, and thanks to 104 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:20.160 your audience. The audience will be thanking you as well 105 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:25.160 if we have to be subjective to minutes of me improvising. Now, 106 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:28.040 tell us a little bit, Susan Simpson, about your background, 107 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:31.519 because it is actually quite important. I mentioned in the 108 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:34.120 introduction that you were an attorney, So tell us about 109 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:39.000 your legal background and your blog, The View to LL two, 110 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:42.120 and explain that what the name is about briefly, and 111 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:44.600 tell us a little bit about you and your blog 112 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:46.959 that you run well. 113 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:49.000 The View from LL two is a blog that one 114 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:51.600 of my friends from law school I started we graduated 115 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:55.439 in two thousand and nine. It was mostly just a 116 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:57.360 way to keep talking about things to talk about in 117 00:06:57.399 --> 00:07:01.240 law school and sort of nerd out even though we're 118 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:05.079 no longer in classes, and it's mostly been about economics, 119 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:10.560 international law, random topics. And for the past year or 120 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.319 so I've been carrying on a loan and as my 121 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:18.040 co bogger had to step down for professional reasons, and 122 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:20.240 when sale came out, I decided to start writing about 123 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:25.360 that as well. Professionally, I'm both a criminal and civil litigator. 124 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.480 My background is primarily civil, as well as one year 125 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:34.160 of criminal appeals experience, and currently I'm doing white collar crime. 126 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:42.800 Now what what intrigued you about this story for all. 127 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:45.759 I mean, again, you just mentioned that this isn't you 128 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:49.120 know primarily you didn't set out this blog to comment 129 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:51.879 on Cereal, but when this case started, So what was 130 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:54.800 it about this case initially? And I guess you've learned 131 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:58.240 a lot more in the following year that you've been 132 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:02.199 involved with this, But tell us what initially really interested 133 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:03.519 you in this case. 134 00:08:06.279 --> 00:08:11.040 Actually, I had a a friend of mine or a 135 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:16.199 former friend of mine not too long ago, did something 136 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:19.279 pretty horrific, And when I was sort of going through 137 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:22.360 the process of trying to figure out how she'd done 138 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:27.439 that and how to explain her actions, I kept coming 139 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:31.000 across pages of referenced Cereal, which I thought was a 140 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:32.799 fictional at first, and I finally figured out it was 141 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.960 a real story. And basically because of my own experiences 142 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:39.240 with having a friend who did something that seemed impossible 143 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.600 for them to have done, I started listening and there's 144 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:45.200 a lot I felt the show didn't cover and I 145 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:46.200 wanted to explore it further. 146 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:52.320 Okay, now for some of the people that may not Again, 147 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.000 we have a big international audience, so and again I've 148 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:58.879 just heard about Cereal. Certainly not a year ago, so 149 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:03.039 I'm pretty sure that other people like myself might not 150 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:06.200 have heard of it till recently. So if we can, 151 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:08.639 because we've only got about an hour or a little 152 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:12.480 bit more than an hour. But let us recap the 153 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:18.799 actual case itself in terms of introducing who Hayman Lee was. 154 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:23.960 An Adnan sayed, first, tell us about who these people 155 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:27.039 are before we get to the actual murder itself, and 156 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:30.399 then we'll just do sort of a brief because we 157 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:33.559 can't get into the exploration that Cereal did certainly, and 158 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:35.240 even that you've done on your blog. So tell us 159 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:37.399 a little bit about these two characters, starting off with 160 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:39.879 Hayman Lee. Who was Hayman. 161 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:43.519 Lee Haman Lee was an eighteen year old high school student. 162 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.639 She was a student at Woodlawn High School in the 163 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:51.919 West side of Baltimore. She had been in a relationship 164 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:55.840 sort of off and on with Anansi ed since April 165 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:00.399 nineteen ninety eight. They began dating after high school dance 166 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:07.480 and then after one or two breakups, they broke up 167 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:13.960 for good around December mid December nineteen ninety eight. At 168 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.759 that point, she began dating one of her co workers, 169 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:21.919 and Adnan also began dating or seeing other girls that 170 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:29.879 he met in the neighborhood. And then approximately three four 171 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:35.399 weeks later and on January thirteenth, nineteen ninety nine, Hey 172 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:40.440 went missing after leaving school one day and was later 173 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:44.120 Her body was later found in a park on the 174 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.759 west side of Baltimore called Lincoln Park, buried in a 175 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:47.440 shallow grave. 176 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:55.320 Now tell us you basically give us a little outline 177 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:58.799 of who she was. Now tell us about the actual 178 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.679 day that she goes missing, and who reports are missing, 179 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:04.679 and how do they know she's missing, and how do 180 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:09.960 police proceed after this initial missing report. 181 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:12.919 The first sign that she's missing is when she fails 182 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:16.639 to appear at a daycare to pick up her young cousin, 183 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:21.240 which was, according to different statements, was supposed to be 184 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:24.960 sometime around three fifteen or three thirty. Woodlawn High School 185 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:29.360 got out at two fifteen that day, and there were 186 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:33.720 reports of seeing Hey on campus anywhere from around about 187 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:36.240 two point thirty to about three or even three fifteen. 188 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:39.960 There's conflicting statements there. It's unclear exactly when she left, 189 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:44.200 but in general it seems that somewhere between two forty 190 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:47.519 five and three o'clock when she actually left campus, where 191 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.840 she went then or what happened next, Uh, there's very 192 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:56.120 little idea. Approximately three thirty through forty five, the daycare 193 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.919 calls one of Hay's relatives and says that the cousin 194 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.360 still there hasn't picked up. So then Hayes's grandmother goes 195 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.360 and picks up the girl from daycare, and about two 196 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:10.879 hours later, three hours later, around six o'clock, hayes brother 197 00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:17.639 calls the police reporter missing. The Baltimore County Police take 198 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:21.480 a statement, makes some call to Hayes's friends, including tad non, 199 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:27.440 don't learn anything, don't do much then, and let it go. 200 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:33.279 She does not reappear, and initially none of her friends 201 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:36.360 are concerned because there is a big ice storm that 202 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:39.440 comes in the following that night, and there's no school 203 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.279 on the fourteenth or fifteenth, and there's a holiday the 204 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:45.840 Monday the next week, so it's not until Tuesday that 205 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:49.399 they're back in school. And only about Wednesday, a week 206 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:52.360 following her murder, that her friends start to come alarmed 207 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:57.080 and it becomes clear that something seriously wrong has occurred. 208 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:01.759 On February ninth, after a search has come up empty 209 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:06.399 for her, a man driving through Lincoln Park pulls over 210 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:11.799 and according to him, to take a leak at the 211 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.200 side of the road. When he does that, he finds 212 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:16.759 a body, which he reports the police. 213 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:24.159 Now what do police do with this report? What do 214 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:26.639 they do with this crime scene itself? And what do 215 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:29.960 they establish from that crime scene? Forensically? 216 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:34.039 It takes him about well, initially, they when they get 217 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:37.120 to the scene, they find a very shallow grave about 218 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:41.159 six inches it's unclear. There's no indication that tools were 219 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:43.480 used to dig it. They're not sure what happened. They're 220 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:48.080 not sure why the spot was chosen. It's approximately one 221 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:51.120 hundred and twenty seven feet off the road and a 222 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:55.320 very visible section of wooded area. You're still clearly inside 223 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:57.679 of the cars from where her body was found. It's 224 00:13:57.799 --> 00:14:04.000 not secluded area whatsoever. They don't find well, they find 225 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:10.159 assorted potential evidence of crime scene, things like spent casings, 226 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.600 a rope, but it's unclear if any of these are 227 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:19.039 connected to the crime. Her body itself is mostly covered 228 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:22.759 with dirt and a few large rocks, but she's still 229 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:28.559 somewhat visible, barely, which mister s the man who found 230 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:35.480 her somehow saw. They do find forensically, they find some 231 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.159 hairs that don't belong to her, and some fibers they 232 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.519 can't identify. But other than that, very little forensic evidence 233 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:48.679 of recovered. After they recover her body the following day, 234 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:53.480 she's identified your fingerprint evidence, her family's notified and an 235 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:58.200 announcement is made and at that point a search begins 236 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.879 or the investigation begins. Initially, they did not appear to 237 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.159 be any suspects that are high on their radar, on 238 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:08.080 the cost radar, but then on February twelfth, an anonymous 239 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:12.320 call was made by, according to the police notes, a 240 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:16.120 young Asian male who told him to start looking at 241 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:20.159 Adnanciat and said that he had been responsible for the 242 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.720 murder and that on Non's friend Yasser could tell them 243 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:27.600 more about it. That's when the police start their investigation 244 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:32.200 into Adnan's role, and essentially when the police stop investigating 245 00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:32.759 anyone else. 246 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:38.360 Now you're doing an exploration of this, and so does 247 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:44.879 Sarah Kanic to a certain extent as well. Who's this 248 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.600 mister S. We don't have to give his name or anything, 249 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:50.919 but who is mister S? Is there? You know, in hindsight, 250 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:58.519 everybody's a great investigator. But did anything strike police unusual 251 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:01.080 about mister s was he investigat at all? I mean, 252 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:05.799 isn't that somewhat routine to at least this person found 253 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:08.399 the body. Was there anything suspicious at all? Is what 254 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:09.240 I'm trying to ask. 255 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:14.440 There was a lot of vises passed him. He was investigated. 256 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:20.399 They gave him two polygraphs because he failed the first one. 257 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:24.559 He was a maintenance man, essentially at a nearby college, 258 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:29.080 and his story was that he just needed to relieve 259 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:31.080 himself in the wood while driving back to work one day, 260 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:33.559 and he happened to wander off the road and find her. 261 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.720 The police were skeptical about this, with good reason, because 262 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:41.120 she was Despite the shallow grave, she was very well 263 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:44.559 covered and it does not seem very probable that someone 264 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.519 just passing by would have seen her, or that under 265 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:49.639 the circumstances he was in the woods, he would have 266 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:53.200 found her grave site. But that's the story he sticks with. 267 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:59.080 And after a second polygraph in which the person asking 268 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:02.279 the question changed the questions entirely and stopped asking questions 269 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:06.039 about what he knows of the murder and only asked 270 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:09.400 him if he knows about how she died, he manages 271 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:12.000 to pass and they write him off as a suspect. 272 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:17.400 There's a lot of different speculation about how mister S 273 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:20.400 could have found the body. One theory I've heard that 274 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:24.240 I tend to favor is that perhaps mister S had 275 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:27.400 seen something related to the burial while driving through at 276 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:29.799 some point, or had been passing by and had seen 277 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:32.319 activity in the woods. Because again, her body was not 278 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:38.279 far from the from the Lincoln Park Road, and with 279 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.000 the leaves gone for the winner, they would have been 280 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.839 fully visible whoever was there trying to dispose of the body, 281 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:47.279 So it's possible he just saw that activity and later 282 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:49.720 came by to figure out what's going on and found her. 283 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:54.279 Or it's possible that his story about taking a bathroom 284 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:56.519 break was true too, although I'm skeptical of that. 285 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:05.079 Now. Actually, everything happens fairly quickly, not immediately, but fairly quickly. 286 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:11.440 So when police actually first spoke to ed Nan, did 287 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.319 he did it seem that he was in their sites 288 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:19.200 sort of like sort of odds wise that it's either 289 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.279 the boyfriend or the ex boyfriend or somebody you know, 290 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:26.519 typically that's where the suspect would be. But was he 291 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:29.799 in police sights when he first was questioned? And what 292 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:33.599 did he say when he was questioned first by police 293 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.319 on the telephone. 294 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:42.559 The first questioning, I guess would be the what happened 295 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.160 the night of his appearance? And that was the route 296 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:49.400 routine questioning by the officer from Baltimore County Police. He 297 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:53.039 was conducting the missing person investigation at that point. There 298 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:56.079 were no suspects on the official record. It was a 299 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.799 routine call to ask if he knew where hey was, 300 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:04.119 and there was nothing more to it at that point. 301 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.400 Later on, I believe, on February first, a different Baltimore 302 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:13.119 County Police officer has a fairly routine conversation with her, 303 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.759 like he did with a lot of her friends, and 304 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:19.680 he asked, well, when'd you see her? What was going on? 305 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:25.279 What have you heard? And on makes a general statement 306 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:28.480 saying he left saw her at school. The cop does 307 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:31.359 not ask anything about what happened later that day, what 308 00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:34.519 he had done, are where he'd been, and leaves it 309 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.480 that At that point, it seems like they may have 310 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:40.519 been looking more into his current boyfriend at the time 311 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:44.400 of her disappearance, Dawn, but they can quickly rule out 312 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.960 Dawn due to his He was at work that day 313 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.359 and he has employment records showing that he was at 314 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.720 his place of work and had not left during the 315 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.119 time she disappeared, so they ruled don out and then 316 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:01.480 they started to focus more heavily on ad Non. They 317 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:04.440 have a second statement planned where they want to meet 318 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.759 with him and get a longer statement set for February 319 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.920 ninth or tenth, but when they find Hay's body, they 320 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:16.160 cancel that and they don't talk to him again until 321 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:20.559 I believe February twenty sixth, And at that point they're 322 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:25.279 starting to heavily focus on him because on February twentieth, nineteenth, 323 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:28.839 somewhere around there, the police decide to request ad on 324 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.160 cell phone records, and they also request the same time 325 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.640 a list of all cell towers in the area. The 326 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:39.319 facts comes back from AT and T a couple days later, 327 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.960 and in February twenty six twenty second they realize that 328 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.400 on the day of Hayes's appearance, ad None had two 329 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:51.279 phone calls that originated on the cell phone tower that's 330 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:55.119 located just to the north of Lincoln Park. Once they 331 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:59.079 see that, and then becomes their suspect full on, and 332 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.920 they pursue leave, leading to him only and pretty much 333 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.559 no one else from that point onwards is ever a suspect. 334 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:12.000 Now, there's a lot to explain in this story. Here, 335 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:16.960 it's incredible this how this keeps unraveling and unraveling and 336 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:26.359 more and more questions. Let's let's talk about ad NaN's alibi. 337 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.400 What does he say to police to help try to 338 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.759 rule him out of potential witness What does he say? 339 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:34.680 Where was he? 340 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.359 So? One of the problems in this case is that 341 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:41.599 there is no record anyone asking Adnan where he was 342 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:47.920 pasted about five thirty until months after his arrest. There's 343 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.920 no statement requested none given he's never gone on record 344 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.720 until long after he's charged with her murder talking about 345 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:59.799 where he is that point onwards. He does give a 346 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.440 few statements about where he was prior to that time, 347 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.720 and his story is that he last saw Hay at 348 00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:12.279 his last period on the thirteenth, and then afterwards he 349 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.920 hung around school, went to the library and waits for 350 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:20.960 track practice, which begun about three point thirty. At three 351 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.359 point thirty, he went to track which was over at 352 00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:29.480 five thirty. Well, probably should back up here. There's a 353 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.039 third character in the story that is pretty important, and 354 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:38.480 that's Jay. Jay was a year head of Hay and Adnn. 355 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:44.680 He graduated and he was dating one of Oddnan's best friends, Stephanie. 356 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:50.559 Through Stephanie, Adnan and Jay had begun, in odd Non's words, 357 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:55.119 uh kicking it per se, which basically meant they had 358 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:59.039 a They smoked up together. They weren't close friends, but 359 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:02.920 they would go and smoke marijuana and hang out. So 360 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.640 on the day of Hayes's appearance, Adnan and Jay had 361 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:11.039 hung out during odd nuns free period around noon, and 362 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.119 then Oddnon had gone back to class, giving his car 363 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:17.960 to j because Jay had asked to borrow the car 364 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:19.799 so he could go buy a present for his girlfriend. 365 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:23.839 When he did so, Odnan left his cell phone in 366 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:25.920 the glove compartment because the students were not allowed to 367 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:31.160 have cell phones on campus. So according to Odnon, from 368 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:36.119 about noon onwards, Jay had both his car and by extension, 369 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:41.039 his cell phone. So the rest of his day in 370 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:44.519 Gulf going to class, going hanging out school, going to 371 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:47.759 track practice, and then when track was over, he called 372 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:52.599 Jay and actid he picked up, So according to add Noan, 373 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.039 he Jay comes back about five point thirty ish, picks 374 00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:59.440 them up from track, and then the two of them 375 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.519 decided to go visit one of Jay's friends who odd 376 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.759 nons have ever met before, where they smoke weed and hang out. 377 00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:15.680 And after according to Adnan, after that, at some point 378 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:20.079 he and Jay leave Kathy's and then eventually he drops 379 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:24.200 off Jay somewhere he doesn't recall where, and then he 380 00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:27.519 goes to mosque, gets some dinner for his father was 381 00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:32.039 at the mosque for Ramadan, and then after mosque goes home. 382 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.559 Now that can be corroborated that bit of evidence in 383 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:41.720 terms of meeting up at the mosque and his father 384 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:44.799 and that timeline. 385 00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:46.039 It seems like he was certainly at the mosque at 386 00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:49.200 some point, and he was definitely at Kathy's at some 387 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:56.400 point that afternoon. Where his his alibi is less certain 388 00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.640 is what was happening earlier in the day, for instance, 389 00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:03.119 right after school. There are three witnesses who say they 390 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:09.640 saw him on campus between about two fifteen and three, Debbie, 391 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:15.240 Becky and Asia. And then there is the track coach 392 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:19.319 who thanks He recalls sing a not at practice on 393 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:21.599 a day that could have been that day, but when 394 00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:25.480 asked about it a couple months later, he cannot say 395 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:28.079 whether the day he recalls talking to add on a 396 00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:31.519 warm day in January was in exactly thirteenth or not. 397 00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:36.599 So he does. He does have an alibi, and there 398 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:38.440 are people who think they've seen him at certain times 399 00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.440 at places where he says he was. But given that 400 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:47.359 this questioning happened most cases months later, people don't know 401 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:50.680