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<v Speaker 1>Dot com. What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna jump right back into some of the headlines

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<v Speaker 1>that have been making the news over the past couple

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<v Speaker 1>of days and see where things currently stand as of today.

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<v Speaker 1>This article was published by the Independent. The authors of

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<v Speaker 1>this article are Rachel Sharp and Andrea Blanco. Headline Idaho

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<v Speaker 1>murders Brian Coberger's eyebrows tied him to student killings as

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<v Speaker 1>defense responds to evidence Brian Coberger's distinct eyebrows may have

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<v Speaker 1>first linked him to the thirteenth of November murders of

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<v Speaker 1>Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. So,

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<v Speaker 1>like we talked about in the previous episode, it was

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<v Speaker 1>the eyebrows that really tip the cops off to Brian Coohberger. Originally,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously it was just a part of the evidence, not

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<v Speaker 1>all of the evidence that they had, but it certainly

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<v Speaker 1>put them on the tail of Brian Cohberger. FBI agents

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<v Speaker 1>lost Brian Cohberger for hours while he was under surveillance.

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<v Speaker 1>Investigators working on the Idaho murders case lost Brian Coburger

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<v Speaker 1>for several hours during the cross country trip from his

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<v Speaker 1>apartment at Washington State University to his family home in Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 1>It has been revealed surveillance teams were tasked with keeping

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<v Speaker 1>eyes on the twenty eight year old criminology PhD student

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<v Speaker 1>after he became a person of interest in the November

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<v Speaker 1>thirteenth murders of Kailee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and

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<v Speaker 1>Ethan Chapin. But on December thirteenth, when he began the

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<v Speaker 1>journey home for the holidays with his father, FBI agents

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<v Speaker 1>managed to lose him almost as soon as their car

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<v Speaker 1>pulled out of the parking lot at his graduate housing.

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<v Speaker 1>That is some Keystone cop type shit right there. How

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<v Speaker 1>do you lose him right when he pulls out of

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<v Speaker 1>the parking lot. I mean, I can understand losing them

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<v Speaker 1>during the trip maybe, but right out of the parking lot.

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<v Speaker 1>What were you guys doing. The shocking revelation has come

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<v Speaker 1>to light in air mails The Eyes of a Killer

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<v Speaker 1>of Part two, citing law enforcement sources who admitted that

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<v Speaker 1>for several alarming hours or more, the man believed to

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<v Speaker 1>have brutally stabbed for University of Idaho's students to death

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<v Speaker 1>had seemingly vanished. Hours later, the car finally picked miles

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<v Speaker 1>away in Colorado and surveillance resumed. Mister Coburger was arrested

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<v Speaker 1>on December thirtieth at his family home and is now

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<v Speaker 1>behind bars in Moscow on murder charges. And that could

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<v Speaker 1>have turned out to be a real disaster for the

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<v Speaker 1>federal government. Imagine everybody's out here worrying that the local

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<v Speaker 1>police department is going to flup things up, only to

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<v Speaker 1>have the FBI screw up the surveillance and let Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Cohberger slither away. Yeah, that wouldn't look too good if

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<v Speaker 1>they weren't able to pick him back up and he

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<v Speaker 1>was engaging in other crimes. Thankfully that didn't happen, and

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<v Speaker 1>thankfully they were able to pick him back up and

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<v Speaker 1>tail him again in Colorado. But it could have ended

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<v Speaker 1>a different way. Possible animal hair was found that Idaho

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<v Speaker 1>murder suspects Washington State home. A record of evidence recovered

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<v Speaker 1>during the apartment search was unsealed last month, revealing the

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<v Speaker 1>seizure of fifteen items, including hairs, receipts, a computer tower,

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<v Speaker 1>a disposable glove, and items with stains. But what significance,

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<v Speaker 1>if any can actually be gleaned from the list. The

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<v Speaker 1>Independent spoke to two experts, doctor Monty Miller, a former

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<v Speaker 1>crime scene investigator and forensic expert for the Texas Department

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<v Speaker 1>of Public Safety, and former FBI agent Jennifer Kofendaffer for

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<v Speaker 1>their takes on each item. Included on the list of

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<v Speaker 1>seizures was a possible animal hair strand. While mister Coburger

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<v Speaker 1>is not believed to have a pet, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>victims he is accused of killing, Gonsalves, had a dog

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<v Speaker 1>that was at home at the time of the murders

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<v Speaker 1>and was later found by police responding to the scene.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's all going to depend on how those test

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<v Speaker 1>results come back for that dog hare. If it comes

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<v Speaker 1>back for the breed that Murphy is, then they have

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<v Speaker 1>themselves a home run. If it comes back and it's

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<v Speaker 1>not the same breed, well that means Brian Cooeberger was

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<v Speaker 1>somewhere else and he picked up a dog hare while

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<v Speaker 1>he was at that other location. Unfortunately, we're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to know one way or the other until the trial.

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<v Speaker 1>The possible animal hair, they'll try to connect that to

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<v Speaker 1>the dog left at the scene. According to doctor Miller,

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<v Speaker 1>if there's a root on that If there is any

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<v Speaker 1>skin on that hair, they could do a DNA test

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<v Speaker 1>with that dog. If it's just a hair that's been

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<v Speaker 1>shed and there is no skin, they would still be

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<v Speaker 1>able to do a microscopile comparison and exclude most dogs,

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<v Speaker 1>but they wouldn't be able to connect it necessarily to

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<v Speaker 1>that dog. And if that's the case, well, it leaves

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of room for a reasonable doubt for

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Koberger and his legal team, Right, that's all they're

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<v Speaker 1>looking for. Remember, they don't have to prove that Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Cooeberger is innocent. What they have to do is show

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<v Speaker 1>enough reasonable doubt that a jury doesn't agree with the

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<v Speaker 1>prosecution scenario and thinks that there's not enough there as

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<v Speaker 1>far as evidence to convict Brian Koeberger. That's what they're

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<v Speaker 1>gunning for. They're not looking for the jury to come

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<v Speaker 1>back and say, oh, Brian Koberger is innocent, he didn't

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<v Speaker 1>do any of this. What they're looking for is reasonable doubt.

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<v Speaker 1>Ms Koffendaffer also explained that the suspect would have left

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<v Speaker 1>behind evidence at the scene, but also taken evidence with

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<v Speaker 1>them before leaving. She said she was surprised by how

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<v Speaker 1>little hare was listed on the search warrant record. We

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<v Speaker 1>also have to keep in mind that he had a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of time to clean up his house before this

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<v Speaker 1>raid wasted. Remember, he had what over a month or

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<v Speaker 1>so to prepare things, get things cleaned up, tosses apartment,

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<v Speaker 1>make sure he got rid of all the hairs that

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<v Speaker 1>were possibly there, all the ones that he could get

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<v Speaker 1>rid of. So there might have been a treasure trove

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<v Speaker 1>of evidence at this apartment directly after these crimes. But

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<v Speaker 1>when the police went there and they enacted this search warrant, well,

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't come back with the whole treasure trove. However,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know what they have because we aren't privy

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<v Speaker 1>to those test results. So the evidence that they pulled

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<v Speaker 1>out of that house, it could be very significant or

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<v Speaker 1>it could be a bunch of bup kiss. We will

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<v Speaker 1>not know until we get to that trial. I would

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<v Speaker 1>expect those items to have been transferred to the killer

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<v Speaker 1>and when he took off his clothing, that to then

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<v Speaker 1>transfer to other clothing and items. So I was surprised

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<v Speaker 1>not to see more items and more hair, she said.

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<v Speaker 1>Kaylee Gonsalavas and her dog Murphy, who was spared from

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<v Speaker 1>the attack and later found unharmed at the scene. Doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Miller explained how the hair is collected, indicated they were

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<v Speaker 1>found separately. They may have collected eight hairs in a

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<v Speaker 1>pillowcase and collected one separately because they found it in

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<v Speaker 1>a different place, he said. And somebody when they collected

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<v Speaker 1>it just wrote hair strand instead of hair. Sometimes you

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<v Speaker 1>write things a little differently. The distinction between hair and

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<v Speaker 1>hair strand was not necessarily meaningful. Miss kofen Daffer also

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<v Speaker 1>said as there could have been more than one log

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<v Speaker 1>keeper that preferred one wording over the other. Again all speculation.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't know what the technician meant when they were

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<v Speaker 1>writing that down. Maybe it has significance, maybe it doesn't.

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<v Speaker 1>According to miss Kofendaffer and mister Miller, well in their experience,

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't mean much. She also noted that the overall

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<v Speaker 1>amount of findings at the Washington State apartment was rather underwhelming.

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<v Speaker 1>I would want to point out that it's not really

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<v Speaker 1>as interesting to me what is on the search warrant

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<v Speaker 1>as what's not on the search warrant and what it

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<v Speaker 1>won't return, she told The Independent. I just expected so

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<v Speaker 1>much more information, so many more hairs, I expected fibers,

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<v Speaker 1>I expected clothing to be taken. I had hoped for shoes. See,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't think any of that was going to be possible.

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<v Speaker 1>And the reason, well, Brian Coberger took that long way

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<v Speaker 1>home after he allegedly killed these kids. So it makes

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<v Speaker 1>sense to me to think that Brian Coburger got rid

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<v Speaker 1>of all of that evidence while on that trip home.

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<v Speaker 1>So I never expected them to find much at the

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<v Speaker 1>house as far as that kind of evidence, and I

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<v Speaker 1>certainly have never expected them to find the murder weapon,

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<v Speaker 1>especially once we learned that he took that long way

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<v Speaker 1>home and he went through all of those desolate areas.

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<v Speaker 1>He had plenty of time to get rid of that

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<v Speaker 1>evidence or even start a fire if he wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>burn those clothes. Speculation about a code defendant is debunked.

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<v Speaker 1>Earlier this month, Brian Coberger's attorney, Ann Taylor, filed a

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<v Speaker 1>discovery request in the case, asking the judge to order

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<v Speaker 1>the prosecution to hand over all discovery in the case

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<v Speaker 1>within fourteen days. Among the discovery requests were witness statements,

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<v Speaker 1>digital media, and police reports about the case. It also

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<v Speaker 1>included a request for information about a code defendant in

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<v Speaker 1>the case statements of a code defendant, any written or

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<v Speaker 1>recorded statements by a code defendant, and the substance of

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<v Speaker 1>any relevant oral statement made by a code defendant, whether

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<v Speaker 1>before or after arrest, in response to interrogation by any

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<v Speaker 1>person known by the code defendant to be a peace

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<v Speaker 1>officer or agent of the prosecuting attorney, or which are

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<v Speaker 1>the otherwise relevant to the offense charged. The filing reads

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<v Speaker 1>the requests prompted speculation of evidence suggesting that mister Coberger

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<v Speaker 1>may have had an accomplice or that the defense could

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<v Speaker 1>seek to argue that as part of their case. And

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<v Speaker 1>when you first read the discovery it certainly reads like

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<v Speaker 1>that you say to yourself, oh, man, could there be

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<v Speaker 1>a defendant? But on further examination, it's just standard boilerplate

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<v Speaker 1>language in most of these discovery requests, and the defense

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<v Speaker 1>attorneys they're just trying to cover their ass right. They

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<v Speaker 1>want to make sure that their client has the best

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<v Speaker 1>chance possible to win the case, and if that means

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<v Speaker 1>talking about code defendants or making sure that there aren't

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<v Speaker 1>code defendants, then that's the kind of language you should

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<v Speaker 1>expect in these kinds of filings. However, mister Levin explained

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<v Speaker 1>that This is just part of the standard request for

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<v Speaker 1>discovery in a case. There are just very standard requests

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<v Speaker 1>as part of the defenses discovery request, he said, And

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<v Speaker 1>like I said previously, I've talked to my lawyer as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and he told me the same thing, very basic standard

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<v Speaker 1>language for a contract like this or a filing with

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<v Speaker 1>the court. You want to make sure that you have

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<v Speaker 1>everything covered. Remember they're playing a game of chess, meaning

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<v Speaker 1>the prosecutors and the defense attorneys. While ruling out other

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<v Speaker 1>individuals as possible suspects will likely form part of the

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<v Speaker 1>state's case against mister Coburger, he said that this does

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<v Speaker 1>not indicate that there are other suspects. The probable cause

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<v Speaker 1>afford David makes no mention of a code defendant, and

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<v Speaker 1>law enforcement officials have previously insisted that they believe the

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<v Speaker 1>suspect acted alone. The request making mention of a code

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<v Speaker 1>defendant is also just one of eighteen discovery requests made

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<v Speaker 1>in the court filing. I don't think I would have

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<v Speaker 1>made much of that, mister Levin said of the discovery request,

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<v Speaker 1>and I agree with him here. I don't think there's

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<v Speaker 1>much going on as far as the code defendant. But

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<v Speaker 1>like everything else, in this crazy ass case. I'm leaving

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of headroom just in case it evolves

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<v Speaker 1>and goes a different way. We have to keep in

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<v Speaker 1>mind that while we have seen what the prosecution has

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<v Speaker 1>to offer so far, and it's strong, but we have

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<v Speaker 1>to wait to see what the defense brings to the

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<v Speaker 1>table as well, because we're only getting one side of

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<v Speaker 1>the story as of now, and there's certainly areas where

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<v Speaker 1>the defense can look to make some ground, But a

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<v Speaker 1>code defendant, I don't think that they're gonna find any

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<v Speaker 1>traction there, but I think it's important for the defense

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<v Speaker 1>to at least try and establish that somebody else could

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<v Speaker 1>have done this, and that's what they're going to try

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<v Speaker 1>and do with a possible code defendant or if they

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<v Speaker 1>go with this strategy. But whether it's this strategy or

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<v Speaker 1>another one, you better believe that the goal is for

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<v Speaker 1>them to have reasonable doubt and for them to make

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<v Speaker 1>the jury think that somebody else besides Brian Koberger could

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<v Speaker 1>have been responsible for these murders. The question is will

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<v Speaker 1>the jury buy what they're selling? All Right, folks, that's

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<v Speaker 1>gonna do it for this one. All of the information

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<v Speaker 1>that goes along with this episode can be found in

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<v Speaker 1>the description box.