Speaker 1: On Welcome to the CEO pre show and ban discussion
Speaker 1: for episode four fifty nine, four fifty nine or fifty nine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're we're doing a double here today. We're gonna do
Speaker 1: the ceoprecio. We're gonna get warmed up and loose, but
Speaker 1: we're also gonna talk about some of the stuff that
Speaker 1: people have been asking us about for the better part
Speaker 1: of the last two days.
Speaker 2: Now, I am so loose, loose, yeah, and sweaty.
Speaker 1: Hey, it's hot out and we didn't shower before we came.
Speaker 2: I haven't had time to shower or shave or do
Speaker 2: anything since the band announcement happened because all I've been
Speaker 2: doing is responding to people on the internet always. That's
Speaker 2: how that's what I do in my mind only.
Speaker 1: Of course, I got one, I got one, I got one, Uh,
Speaker 1: I got you got this. So it makes it difficult
Speaker 1: to shower, So I shower as infrequently as possible. In
Speaker 1: true magic the gathering fashion.
Speaker 2: See, I also shower as infrequently as possible, but that's
Speaker 2: just because I don't want to.
Speaker 3: Good.
Speaker 1: Okay, so did you hear the news? You probably did?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I caught wind of it.
Speaker 1: Cockslide extortionist yep. Uh jeweled butt plug yep, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: call it mana cry and cut off that Pete sure
Speaker 1: mana cry?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And Sam to Can Sam t Can band?
Speaker 3: Did you ever play against Tucan band?
Speaker 2: I did not, not me either, not one time, not
Speaker 2: one time.
Speaker 1: I can imagine though it being miserable.
Speaker 2: I feel sad that all those people won't get to
Speaker 2: have their tou Can Sam altars, though there is.
Speaker 1: For sure one guy that has a very nice kid,
Speaker 1: Sam Alter.
Speaker 2: And I'm sorry now that there's at least two, and
Speaker 2: you know everybody is sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there it is well, and you know.
Speaker 3: It's not like they're not cool pieces of art.
Speaker 1: Still, yeah, it is very cool and it's a high
Speaker 1: quality altar and it's fun and you could play it
Speaker 1: in Commander Cube or you could play it in regular Cube.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that regular cubes have equipments equipped for zero,
Speaker 1: and that card Nadu when whatever his name is, would
Speaker 1: still be good in cube.
Speaker 2: I'm sure Lightning greaves in shack who are probably not shaku,
Speaker 2: you know, is that the one that's the one there?
Speaker 1: And as if those are the only two equipments in cubes,
Speaker 1: and as if those are the only two equipments that
Speaker 1: are good with.
Speaker 2: Nadu, because come on, oops, let's.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Nadu for a little bit. The lead
Speaker 1: designer for made Hole admitted that Nadu was a mistake.
Speaker 1: They changed it last minute to make it more appealing
Speaker 1: for commander, so every card and legend and powerful, interesting
Speaker 1: throwback or thing could find a home, right, do.
Speaker 2: You think maybe he was like, do you think Nadu
Speaker 2: was a racist? And they banned those other three cards
Speaker 2: that everybody talked about those ones, and everybody just forgot
Speaker 2: that Nadu was there just talking nothing but politics and
Speaker 2: religion all the time, And so they banned the other
Speaker 2: three cards so people would take their eyes off the
Speaker 2: nad so they would they just unleash.
Speaker 1: Because that's human. Nadho's already banned in other formats. Oh
Speaker 1: and you know what, like I've never played against it,
Speaker 1: but I have played with and against decks that play
Speaker 1: like Nadu does. Take a look at Zadahedron Grinder, for example,
Speaker 1: non deterministic. I might not actually win this game if
Speaker 1: I don't drawn off cards, or if I whiff, or
Speaker 1: if I run out of mana drops or rituals or
Speaker 1: if I don't draw into like a dedicated win con
Speaker 1: and like you've played against my Zata deck where people
Speaker 1: have to like tick down or tick up two different
Speaker 1: D twenties to tell me how much colorless man I
Speaker 1: have and how much red man I have floating as
Speaker 1: I go through the turn. And then I try to
Speaker 1: like infinitely speed run a dungeon to try and take
Speaker 1: advantage of one room. So every six times I.
Speaker 3: Dungeon, you want everybody.
Speaker 1: I get like somebody for one damage and that makes
Speaker 1: me one man and I draw one card.
Speaker 2: It's like, eh, now, who's the least exciting card on
Speaker 2: this list?
Speaker 1: But let's you can see why. You can see why,
Speaker 1: and the the I.
Speaker 2: Would say, the second least exciting card on your dockside extortion.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's move on to that one. Let's save the
Speaker 1: cherry on top with the last two.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say and hot take. Maybe probably not, I
Speaker 2: don't care. The Dark Side was banned it. I played
Speaker 2: it in eight decks, okay, And here's why I played
Speaker 2: it in eight decks.
Speaker 1: I played the most part.
Speaker 3: I played it in eight because I had eight yep
Speaker 3: I opened them and had them and stuff.
Speaker 2: I was actively searching for them because I play a
Speaker 2: lot of Red and Dockside Extortionist is a great way
Speaker 2: to play, in my case, your five or seven or
Speaker 2: nine or eleven drop Commander, because.
Speaker 3: They keep dying.
Speaker 2: It's a good way to bring yourself back into the game.
Speaker 2: So I just used that as like a really easy
Speaker 2: catch up thing. And so when he got banned, I'm
Speaker 2: kind of like, this fucking sucks.
Speaker 1: But but but you didn't read the rest of the article,
Speaker 1: and you just saw the Dockside was banned, and you
Speaker 1: were like, Okay, I can see that. I can see
Speaker 1: that coming, right, I.
Speaker 2: Get And they've been talking about it for a long time, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Well there's a surprise.
Speaker 1: There's been definite conversations for a long time when you
Speaker 1: talk or or listen to any CEDH content or just
Speaker 1: the general goings on of the Magic verse. This card
Speaker 1: is so good and it's the backbone of Red in
Speaker 1: nearly any tuned or powerful or CEDH style deck, so
Speaker 1: much so that it like it's combos outside of Red, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody knows.
Speaker 2: The deck that I'm the most sad about losing it
Speaker 2: in Brutoclad. Yeah, I think that brutoclad might be my
Speaker 2: tightest list that I have because you.
Speaker 1: Make treasures and then the treasures turn into seven seven dwarfs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so it's it's so good, right, my my
Speaker 2: blue red crater hoof Behemoth, like it's so good. The
Speaker 2: other decks like it sucks to lose it. And we'll
Speaker 2: talk about value later on, like the money part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if even like it's worth mentioning, Yeah, it is
Speaker 1: worth you know what I have to remember For me,
Speaker 1: I suppose I should have said that at the top.
Speaker 1: For me, the monetary change or difference postban and pre
Speaker 1: ban doesn't matter to me. And we'll get into that
Speaker 1: when we talk about that. But I think it goes
Speaker 1: to it's important for us to say that for you
Speaker 1: it does matter. For me, it does not matter. And
Speaker 1: for that reason, I am a lot less passionate and
Speaker 1: more app to just kind of carry on. And we've
Speaker 1: got the article in front of us, like the Band
Speaker 1: and Restricted update from September twenty third, for me to
Speaker 1: just read it and take it at face value that
Speaker 1: this is the reasons, and to read what the RC
Speaker 1: put out the Commander Rules Committee on MTG Commander dot
Speaker 1: net and on Twitter, you know all the people and
Speaker 1: most of which I know, to read it and take
Speaker 1: it at face value and say, okay, well those are
Speaker 1: the reasons and move on. Take doc side out of
Speaker 1: my deck. I had it at anamar where I did
Speaker 1: dirty rotten, broken shit with it, like bounce it infinitely
Speaker 1: and just make it mana and dump it into a
Speaker 1: walk in Ballista, right. And I played it in my
Speaker 1: Cascade Friends deck just because I had a second one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to like, oh, it's my Cascade
Speaker 1: two drop that'll maybe make me five mana that I
Speaker 1: can play another Cascades spell with.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So we both probably did dirty rotten things within yeah.
Speaker 1: And we both also did regular stuff.
Speaker 3: With regular casual magic stuff.
Speaker 2: No, people have a hard time, oh docs ie, that's
Speaker 2: like one hundred dollars cards.
Speaker 3: Like, oh my god it No.
Speaker 1: I got it in a pre con. I got it
Speaker 1: in the Sabine precon because I wanted to play Pramic
Speaker 1: con petitioners.
Speaker 3: So it's one of those I don't know.
Speaker 2: The dock side one didn't hit as hard as crypt
Speaker 2: and Lotus for me, And those are the ones, I
Speaker 2: think a are the ones that people.
Speaker 3: Are actually mad about.
Speaker 1: Yes, and there's for a bunch of different reasons, and
Speaker 1: the nuances within those reasons, right.
Speaker 2: It's the top down face value. What makes me The
Speaker 2: thing that upsets me the most is these were things
Speaker 2: that were like tenth anniversary presents for people that I know, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.
Speaker 2: People waited in line instead of they flew to a city,
Speaker 2: then spent eight hours waiting in line, then picked up
Speaker 2: this card that they traded basically their entire trade binder
Speaker 2: for to get this card. That is now it's not
Speaker 2: worthless yet, but the freefall as of today when we're recording,
Speaker 2: hasn't stopped right, like it could go all the way
Speaker 2: down to no dollars, like it could be legitimate bookmark coaster.
Speaker 2: Interesting oddity that you'll show your kids one day and.
Speaker 1: Say this is what it did, and oh, Grandpa, that's
Speaker 1: such gets you back to the home. Grandpa, that's a
Speaker 1: crazy card.
Speaker 3: What did you do with that? I forgot brand fucking nothing.
Speaker 1: I do that with Brando. Now, okay, grandpa Brando, let's
Speaker 1: get you back to the home. Did you remember your
Speaker 1: medicine today?
Speaker 3: I sure did.
Speaker 2: That's why I'm not lit up and on fire right
Speaker 2: now from being pissed off. But the thing with these
Speaker 2: ones is these two cards Man of Crypt and Jeweled Lotus,
Speaker 2: for years since they've existed, have done exactly what they
Speaker 2: were printed to do and exactly what people said they
Speaker 2: were going to do in exactly the kind of decks
Speaker 2: that people said they were going to do them in.
Speaker 2: And it took them years, with no upfront conversation with anyone,
Speaker 2: to just wipe them out.
Speaker 3: And that's not a.
Speaker 2: Financial thing, even though these are things.
Speaker 3: That people trade up into.
Speaker 2: They trade all their five dollars arres that they open
Speaker 2: in a box, they trade all these things, they save
Speaker 2: up some money, they go out and they buy this
Speaker 2: card that they need to finish off a deck. And
Speaker 2: these are things that go in every deck.
Speaker 1: That Okay, hold on, hold on, you're lost for words.
Speaker 1: From minute, let me interject with two things and then
Speaker 1: i'll give you the platform back. Two things. The first
Speaker 1: one is they go. You said that, they go in
Speaker 1: every deck. You just said that, And I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to try. I'm just I'm working out the nuance here
Speaker 1: because there's a lot to be mad about and there's
Speaker 1: a lot to understand at the same time, and through understanding,
Speaker 1: we can kind of knock all the sharp corners off.
Speaker 1: How we feel about this. Hopefully that's my goal today. Okay,
Speaker 1: and I know you don't like knock in sharp corners off.
Speaker 3: I'm a sea urchin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So they go in every deck. But you
Speaker 1: also said they go in the decks that you think
Speaker 1: that they go in. Yeah, and it's like, okay, is
Speaker 1: that like the high end competitive decks or is it
Speaker 1: every deck? Because they go in.
Speaker 2: Both, they can go in every deck. Yes, Typically you'll
Speaker 2: only see them played in the because commanders of social
Speaker 2: format and the social at least in my experience, the
Speaker 2: social mechanics that have been set up by the community
Speaker 2: will typically play them in higher power decks or in
Speaker 2: ones where again, where I played them was my commander
Speaker 2: costs a thousand and it dies.
Speaker 1: A million dollars was going to be my next question,
Speaker 1: and this will let me.
Speaker 2: Power them out. I played them in coma. I played
Speaker 2: it in right like I play them in things that
Speaker 2: cost seven and nine To get them into play ult
Speaker 2: cost five sometime. Okay, yeah, but O three also costs
Speaker 2: nine because it dies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's a three to three.
Speaker 1: So yes, and the Rules Committee had stated that the
Speaker 1: explosive turns off the start, like the ability to with
Speaker 1: these cards in your opening hand consistently untap on turn
Speaker 1: two with five MANA, combined with the increase since Strixhaven
Speaker 1: of the mid game card being very high power and
Speaker 1: accelerating past the beginning part of the game, has changed
Speaker 1: how these cards changed, Where these cards are being used
Speaker 1: to their greatest effect, and when when you look at
Speaker 1: that kind of development in the landscape of Commander mixed
Speaker 1: with Jeweled Lotus being reprinted in Commander Masters and Manicript
Speaker 1: being reprinted several times, it's not like they're less expensive,
Speaker 1: but more people have them because they open them in
Speaker 1: booster packs, and when they open them in booster packs,
Speaker 1: they're happy. They're happy, and they don't just put them
Speaker 1: in their CEDH deck. Right. You had them in non
Speaker 1: CDH decks, so did I. And when you say things
Speaker 1: like they're only relegated to CDH so they don't matter,
Speaker 1: but everybody plays them in casual anyways, because and I've
Speaker 1: heard this rhetoric, rule zero's dead. It's bullshit. It doesn't
Speaker 1: solve anything. Then we get the situation that we're in now,
Speaker 1: where everybody's Lots of people are running manacrypts and jeweled
Speaker 1: lotuses in their very casual decks because they have them,
Speaker 1: because they open them. Yeah, and it's an issue now
Speaker 1: and they're not trying to make it an issue, and
Speaker 1: they're not trying to pubstomp or roll over on people
Speaker 1: playing casual And I'm playing CDCH so I can win prizes.
Speaker 1: We're not in Calgary yet. Yeah, but it's just become
Speaker 1: part of the landscape of the format. Right, It's like
Speaker 1: they've just become a weed in casual commander's side because
Speaker 1: the rules Committee and and and whether you like them
Speaker 1: or not, that's not this conversation. But the rules Committee
Speaker 1: stated that they want to cultivate longer games because they
Speaker 1: feel that that's better for the format.
Speaker 2: Let me hit you with this. I don't care what
Speaker 2: they think. Okay, it's not their job to think. It's
Speaker 2: not their job to cultivate the kind of format that
Speaker 2: they think people should have.
Speaker 3: I'm a believer.
Speaker 2: And if you're going to say this is a social format,
Speaker 2: yeah this is.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give you an example. Kill Is this annoying?
Speaker 3: Is this irritating?
Speaker 1: Oh, it's like a jeweled lotus do you want me
Speaker 1: to stop? Yeah, I should be banned.
Speaker 3: He should. How do you get me to stop doing this?
Speaker 1: I banned you, lotus.
Speaker 2: Would you ask me politely to stop, please stop doing that?
Speaker 3: Look at that I stopped.
Speaker 2: Or would you call the police and try and have
Speaker 2: arrested for doing that? Because that's what's happened here, okay,
Speaker 2: finish People in their playgroups or in their stores see
Speaker 2: people playing these cards and all the games are over
Speaker 2: too fast. Oh I can't keep up.
Speaker 3: Oh I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't have access to these cards. Fairpoint, fair points all.
Speaker 2: But they complained to a governing bodies. The governing body
Speaker 2: banned it because some people complain that some games are
Speaker 2: ending too quickly. And I think that that's a pardon
Speaker 2: my language, a bullshit reason to ban a card. I
Speaker 2: really do, especially when they are higher end quasi staples
Speaker 2: that could be solved with massive reprinting on the company side.
Speaker 1: And we're not there yet, We're gonna We're not quite
Speaker 1: there yet.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tease it. All of this lands squarely on Wizards.
Speaker 2: Are some are some players complaining very vocally to at
Speaker 2: the grassroots part of this situation, Yes, is the RC
Speaker 2: making a vast sweet being banned that hurt stores and
Speaker 2: players and collectors. Are they a part of this conversation
Speaker 2: where people are so angry? Absolutely they are. Do they
Speaker 2: deserve some heat as a committee?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Individually, No, because they're still humans and they're good people
Speaker 2: trying to do what's right for everybody.
Speaker 1: I like that part, and especially like I'll pile onto
Speaker 1: that even though there's so many things I have to say,
Speaker 1: and you're saying so much that I'm forgetting my points.
Speaker 3: Good knowing, like actually.
Speaker 1: Meeting and being friends with multiple members of the Rules
Speaker 1: Committee and the Commander Advisory Group or the KEG CG.
Speaker 1: If you see that anywhere, it's another group of kind
Speaker 1: of RC underlings that also help manage the format and
Speaker 1: intake and broadcast information two and four. The RC knowing
Speaker 1: those two groups of people don't come after them and
Speaker 1: don't say things about what you think their position or
Speaker 1: what should happen to them, that is bad. And I
Speaker 1: don't think that anybody in CCO nation does that, and
Speaker 1: I certainly haven't seen anybody in our community hell do that.
Speaker 2: No, I've seen a lot of it in the last
Speaker 2: few days.
Speaker 1: But man alive, man I just lay.
Speaker 3: Off them as people.
Speaker 2: You can hate the decision that they made as a group,
Speaker 2: but you can't really hate them because it's not any
Speaker 2: individual human that did this. The people that you can
Speaker 2: shit on is Wizards of the Coast because this is
Speaker 2: their fault one hundred percent. And I'm going to tell
Speaker 2: you why I think shit is if you look at
Speaker 2: and this is the big heated argument right now, possibly
Speaker 2: because you know my fun isn't your fun or whatever
Speaker 2: is solring? Where everybody's why don't they ban solring too?
Speaker 2: It's and the thing is, the reason that they shouldn't
Speaker 2: ban solring isn't because it's iconic to the format.
Speaker 3: It's not everybody has access to it.
Speaker 2: I think that if everybody, if you opened a manacrypt
Speaker 2: and a jeweled Lotus in every single Commander pre con
Speaker 2: and everybody had access to them, I would be willing
Speaker 2: to bet that we wouldn't be sitting here right now.
Speaker 1: I think you're probably right because can I take that
Speaker 1: a step further, just just for five seconds, give me
Speaker 1: also give me free instant speed removal that says destroy
Speaker 1: target jeweled Lotus and destroy target manacrypt, or like a
Speaker 1: one drop in chant artifact that says maniccrypt deals double
Speaker 1: damage to you. Sure, and I enchant you with it. Sure,
Speaker 1: give me, give me those cards and solve that problem
Speaker 1: when every single pre con has a jeweled Lotus and
Speaker 1: a Maniccrypt in it, and fuck nay, stop printing soul
Speaker 1: rings in pre cons for four or five years. Only
Speaker 1: print maniccrypts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or just do in my head, like if I
Speaker 2: had a magic wand and I could wave it around,
Speaker 2: every Commander deck would come built exactly as it is
Speaker 2: right now instead of coming with that bullshit Commander or
Speaker 2: super pack preview thing has two cards.
Speaker 1: In it or the thick the thick daddy Commander.
Speaker 3: Fuck all that. You get a white bordered.
Speaker 2: What's it called manacrypt Yeah, and a white border jewel
Speaker 2: lotus yeah, with a little like generic set symbol on it.
Speaker 2: And then everybody has access to the card and they're
Speaker 2: not in the deck. But if you want to tune
Speaker 2: your deck up to play a little bit higher, you
Speaker 2: can take those. You can cut a couple of things,
Speaker 2: stick them into your pre con or do whatever.
Speaker 1: Now, the customizable pre con we talked about like on
Speaker 1: last week's.
Speaker 2: Show, exactly, then everybody has one, and I feel like
Speaker 2: that would I'm not saying that this is just a
Speaker 2: bunch of butot hurt people that didn't want to buy
Speaker 2: expensive cards and wanted to ruin the fun of the
Speaker 2: people that either opened them or took the plunge and
Speaker 2: got them, because that's not what this is. This is
Speaker 2: just a it's an amalgamation of shit that just built
Speaker 2: up and came out. I think in a really poorly
Speaker 2: thought about.
Speaker 1: It is also that because nobody was complaining about sol
Speaker 1: Ring needing a ban until this happened, Until this happened,
Speaker 1: and they said, well, wait a second, you said sol
Speaker 1: Ring is the same as manicre band sol Ring too. Right, Well,
Speaker 1: if that's the if that's your fucking argument, banned Dark
Speaker 1: Ritual and ban Jessica's Will and ban Piratic Ritual and
Speaker 1: by like, ban all those cards too ancient tune right
Speaker 1: ancient tomb I had that one listed the party tree. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, And if it's about making people feel bad that
Speaker 2: they lost games, maybe they should ban Creater hoof Behemoth
Speaker 2: and cyclonic Riff.
Speaker 1: And okay and hyperbolic, easy to be inflammatory. Okay, I
Speaker 1: want to go way back, but we're not doing any
Speaker 1: of that stuff. I want to go way back and
Speaker 1: ask you if if policing fun and banning cards and
Speaker 1: making the format fun for people isn't the RC's job,
Speaker 1: what is their job, Or if that's an impossible question
Speaker 1: for us to answer because we're not them and we
Speaker 1: don't have a strong enough understanding of that, what should
Speaker 1: their job be in your eyes?
Speaker 2: In my eyes, I don't think they should exist. And
Speaker 2: I've always thought that. I don't think that these people
Speaker 2: need to exist at the level that they do, especially
Speaker 2: when they say this is just a suggestion, this isn't official,
Speaker 2: But then when you go on a deck building website,
Speaker 2: they still tell you that you're is illegal.
Speaker 1: And if you're playing in the CEDH tournament in Magic
Speaker 1: or Command Fester Toronto, well fuck that.
Speaker 2: When you go to a local store and you can't
Speaker 2: use them because they're banned, the suggested thing from this
Speaker 2: group that doesn't officially control the rules controls the rules,
Speaker 2: and I don't think they should be there in any case,
Speaker 2: I honestly don't.
Speaker 1: I know that you've said that in the past, and
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that I say that to
Speaker 1: the people listening, because it's easy to I'm not just
Speaker 1: saying that now. Yes, It's easy for somebody to hear
Speaker 1: that and say, oh, fuck, you're just saying that. You're
Speaker 1: just saying that because you had nine cards that come
Speaker 1: out of decks that used to be worth two hundred
Speaker 1: dollars fifteen fifteen. Sure, Okay, So if you think that
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be an entity or an organization or governing body,
Speaker 1: you think that WATSI should just do it, yeah, and
Speaker 1: just handle bands like they do for modern or standard
Speaker 1: like this.
Speaker 2: RC should be just like a part of the Wizard's net,
Speaker 2: even if it's the same people, Just have them not
Speaker 2: as this like, don't pretend that you're some kind of
Speaker 2: independent body, because you're not.
Speaker 1: You know what, I have to disagree. I think they
Speaker 1: if they don't have the authority to ban an unbanned cards,
Speaker 1: then what are they doing? And they are just pretending, right,
Speaker 1: So either have them in the capacity that you have
Speaker 1: them now or fucking bounce like those are the options.
Speaker 2: Then say that they're in the capacity that they're in
Speaker 2: because they don't know because they do say that they're
Speaker 2: not a governing body, they're not official, they're not but
Speaker 2: they are no, no, no, they're.
Speaker 1: Not wats the employees. They are the governing body for
Speaker 1: the format that Watsie uses, their their their ideas, their.
Speaker 2: Guidance on well, then they should be official humans at
Speaker 2: the company.
Speaker 1: I don't see how that changes any of what we're
Speaker 1: going through if if they're official, Watsie people are not
Speaker 1: because without getting inflammatory and assuming that they're in collusion
Speaker 1: with wats and insider tradings happening, and I would know
Speaker 1: because none of that happens.
Speaker 2: I would love to see a proof of life with
Speaker 2: a jeweled lotus, but I'm not going you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. I would love to see that, but that's
Speaker 2: not that's end me being funny.
Speaker 1: You know what they hold on the insider trading thing,
Speaker 1: It's been it's been confirmed that the RC and the
Speaker 1: KEG they were actually all in agreeance and decided and
Speaker 1: were told that if they do pre sell any of
Speaker 1: their stuff pre bands, they will be eliminated from those
Speaker 1: governing bodies as they should be, as they should be
Speaker 1: because and I don't want to use insider trading because
Speaker 1: that's it. That's a legal term for a regulated market
Speaker 1: and this is not that obviously, so you can't you
Speaker 1: can't give it the same kind of onus or Cony's.
Speaker 1: But they've already thought of that, and and they're not
Speaker 1: trying to make a bank, and they're not trying to lose, like,
Speaker 1: they're not trying to take money away from you. Now,
Speaker 1: I do agree with you. I feel for the local
Speaker 1: game stores that are sitting on a stock of these
Speaker 1: things that have since gone down. Now, it's not like
Speaker 1: a game store instantaneously picks up like a shipment or
Speaker 1: a stock of Mancrypts like they do booster boxes. Right, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go to my supplier and order
Speaker 1: fucking eighty six Mancrypts and sell them instantaneously on pre
Speaker 1: order with like when Dusk Worn comes out. That doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: So these these stores, just like collectors, just like players,
Speaker 1: accrue these over time, and they appreciate over time because
Speaker 1: the format grows and the cards get older and more
Speaker 1: scarce theoretically, and they gain value and you sell them
Speaker 1: for a profit. Now that's harder to do because the
Speaker 1: cards are worth substantially less. Are they still in free
Speaker 1: fall at this moment?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, as we sit here right now.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Will they go to zero? No, because other formats that
Speaker 1: play them exist except for Jewel Lotus except for jewel lotus,
Speaker 1: though it does count as a sacrifice in legacy, and
Speaker 1: you can play it in Commander Cube.
Speaker 3: Nobody plays Commander.
Speaker 1: No, not very many people play Commander Cube. But my
Speaker 1: point is they won't go to zero dollars. And I
Speaker 1: actually saw open offers on Facebook today for like two
Speaker 1: hundred dollars raised foiled jeweled lotuses. Now that's not five hundred,
Speaker 1: but it's still not nothing, right, and.
Speaker 2: Man, and those are gonna go down, Like people don't
Speaker 2: buy those right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't buy them at two hundred, But in a
Speaker 1: month from now, what if they're.
Speaker 3: At three hundred, they won't be.
Speaker 1: Maybe they won't be, but maybe they will be. I
Speaker 1: don't know, right, And we're not MTG finance guys or
Speaker 1: spec guys or whatever. And I certainly don't know how
Speaker 1: many copies exist out there, and there's not serialized ones
Speaker 1: to fricking tell us that, right, YEA. What I don't
Speaker 1: What I don't like about the situation I think the
Speaker 1: most is people being so upset when their cards go
Speaker 1: from and just hear me out, let's say two hundred
Speaker 1: dollars to ten dollars, right, big hit, big hit. It
Speaker 1: feels like a big hit. You weren't selling that at
Speaker 1: two hundred, you're not selling at ten, so you don't
Speaker 1: have the money either way. And I get it. There's
Speaker 1: a safety net if like you break your leg and
Speaker 1: you need to sell cards, Like I get that.
Speaker 2: If you're electric heating thermostat wiring in your walls blows
Speaker 2: fire out of it and you have to get it
Speaker 2: fixed by an electrician, like what happened to me.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say it seems ultra specific.
Speaker 2: The day before this band happened. This is a This
Speaker 2: is actively a big hit.
Speaker 3: Like I've talked.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've mentioned on the show, but
Speaker 2: like every new tattoo I've had represents a high end
Speaker 2: card that I've sold, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, That's where I get.
Speaker 2: My kind of fun money, right Yeah. And now that
Speaker 2: I'm I'm in a position where I had to do
Speaker 2: some massive car repairs and I had to think like
Speaker 2: having that safety net of like, man, I can sell
Speaker 2: some cards and make some of this back. Specifically had
Speaker 2: me heated up for a little walk. So people say
Speaker 2: we weren't going to sell them anyway, Well maybe I
Speaker 2: was well because I was playing them because I owned them.
Speaker 2: And I could certainly not own them to not be
Speaker 2: kind of screwed when it comes to fixing things around
Speaker 2: my house in real life.
Speaker 1: I would bet that you're in the massive minority there.
Speaker 3: I certainly am.
Speaker 2: And again I'm acknowledging that I am in a position
Speaker 2: that not many people were in but I and I
Speaker 2: do I feel for people who did, because again, we're
Speaker 2: in a position where a lot of our high end
Speaker 2: singles and stuff come from we run a show, we're influencers, and.
Speaker 1: We do get the ior I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: We do get a kickback from our business daddies at
Speaker 2: Fusion Gaming Online dot com, and we do get cards
Speaker 2: from there for less monies because we get paid in
Speaker 2: store credit. Yeah, so some of these things do come
Speaker 2: from there. So the financial hit that we took based
Speaker 2: on our upfront investment is much less than the average
Speaker 2: human being that paid two, three, four hundred.
Speaker 3: Dollars for one of these cards.
Speaker 2: Two things, and that that it just sucks when you
Speaker 2: I get the the oh, you know, I never got
Speaker 2: to play my super cool neon yellow maniccrypt. You know,
Speaker 2: I never got to even play it. I've played the
Speaker 2: deck a few.
Speaker 3: Times, never drew it.
Speaker 2: And that just damn and now I won't get to
Speaker 2: and that makes me sad.
Speaker 3: But I'm happy that.
Speaker 2: I have the card still, but it still makes me sad.
Speaker 1: Command of Cube Baby play. Two things. People think that
Speaker 1: we're rolling in the dough. We ain't.
Speaker 2: No, we ain't no.
Speaker 1: That's why patreon dot com slash podcast very very important
Speaker 1: because fusion pays a shit. That's the thing. One. Yes,
Speaker 1: So if you feel like supporting and Commander cook Up
Speaker 1: provides you value and entertainment and enjoyment, fuck and please
Speaker 1: go to Patreon because it means a whole ton to us.
Speaker 1: Second thing, how come the opposite is not true? When
Speaker 1: I tell you, I tell you the proverbial you anybody
Speaker 1: the sliver queen you pulled out of a three dollars
Speaker 1: booster pack in nineteen ninety seven is worth five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: How Come I don't just run out and sell it. No?
Speaker 1: But but how come there's not this extreme emotionally positive response.
Speaker 1: How come when I tell you Foil Dolman gates from
Speaker 1: Lorwin are like one hundred and ten each and you
Speaker 1: got like a playset of them, and it's like, oh fuck,
Speaker 1: there goes my electrical issues here you go, whoever, take
Speaker 1: these cards and now I'll pay the electrician, right, Like,
Speaker 1: the same can be true. And that's the part that
Speaker 1: I have that I have a trouble with, is it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: is like these cards are sitting there in a deck
Speaker 1: or in a binder unless you have very specific circumstances
Speaker 1: like you actually had this week, and I didn't even
Speaker 1: know that, so.
Speaker 2: I sprung it on them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel bad that those issues happened to you.
Speaker 1: I feel less bad about or I don't feel any
Speaker 1: worse for you that the cards tanked in price because
Speaker 1: you've got I do have like seventeen million other cards
Speaker 1: that you could do the thing that you're talking about
Speaker 1: that you could have done with these cards. Right. And
Speaker 1: that's why the issue is complex is because maybe, and
Speaker 1: this is how nuanced it can be, maybe you've got
Speaker 1: an attachment to that Silver Queen because it was in
Speaker 1: your first Boost pack. Ever, maybe your other Sliver Queen
Speaker 1: I painted for you, Maybe your other Sliver Queen you
Speaker 1: lost your virginity to. Maybe your other Sliver Queen because
Speaker 1: you've got four of them. I do like you and
Speaker 1: Lenny Bounce these guys in Calgary one time, and it's
Speaker 1: a memorable thing, and it sits up on your mantle
Speaker 1: like tremors too, right, And I don't know any of
Speaker 1: those things, even after the fact that you told me
Speaker 1: that you had a bunch of financial burdens this month, right,
Speaker 1: And when somebody is just flaming on the internet because
Speaker 1: that's what they do. I actually was talking to a
Speaker 1: guy in Commander crookout comments on YouTube, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: like I did to you, help me understand, because the
Speaker 1: more that you and I can talk about this issue
Speaker 1: and people can talk, and the more we say things
Speaker 1: like help me understand why you're upset, the more we
Speaker 1: can work through the issue. And like I said, knock
Speaker 1: some of those rounded or around some of those sharp
Speaker 1: edges off. And while I'm not going to make you
Speaker 1: feel better now, I understand.
Speaker 2: Well, sometimes just yelling about it kind of helped.
Speaker 3: I was. I don't know if you know this about me, but.
Speaker 2: I was lit up hi yesterday when I got home
Speaker 2: and I was pulling those cards out of my deck.
Speaker 1: Well you pulled them straight away, Oh yeah, I got.
Speaker 2: Them right away because I knew we were going to
Speaker 2: be recording today and I wanted to even even through
Speaker 2: my haze of fucking rage.
Speaker 3: I wanted to have something constructive.
Speaker 1: Did you drink a pile of bones beer? Oh?
Speaker 3: I drank three of them? Oh yeah, yeah, oh, And I'm.
Speaker 2: Just I'm yanking cards out. And you know what I
Speaker 2: did after that, I relaxed.
Speaker 3: I just raged.
Speaker 2: And Sam was like, I don't understand anything that you're saying,
Speaker 2: but I feel bad for you. And then afterwards, I
Speaker 2: sat down with my binders and I sat down with.
Speaker 1: My I'm on fire.
Speaker 3: What I thought was a.
Speaker 2: Chaff pile from Duskborne.
Speaker 3: And you know what I.
Speaker 2: Did, Oh, filled in the gaps, filled in what caps
Speaker 2: the gaps in my decks that were left by all
Speaker 2: the cuts of filled them in with new cards or
Speaker 2: old cards. And so I did something constructive. So on
Speaker 2: tomorrow show will actually have something to say that it's
Speaker 2: like constructive and that stuff that like, oh, here's an
Speaker 2: opportunity for you to use some new ship to them
Speaker 2: into your decks. And on the upside too, they're not
Speaker 2: super expensive staple cards that you're going to invent a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of money in and then they get banned out
Speaker 2: underneath you.
Speaker 3: I gotta I gotta get a few shots in. I
Speaker 3: gotta get a few shots in.
Speaker 1: I like, I like that this is probably our longest
Speaker 1: pre show ever. It's its own episode. But I knew
Speaker 1: it was gonna be. That's why I said, like, let's
Speaker 1: get started. I don't think that we've solved the problem now.
Speaker 1: Anybody who started the show mad is probably still probably
Speaker 1: still anywhere between like peeved and mad, and maybe maybe
Speaker 1: if we made them one percent less bad. We have
Speaker 1: to take that as a w hell yeah, right, And
Speaker 1: and the people who wanted our opinions, like, I think
Speaker 1: they already knew that you were lit up, and I
Speaker 1: think that they already knew that I really weren't. I well,
Speaker 1: and you know, I say it on the show all
Speaker 1: the time. I don't really have a passionate, like left
Speaker 1: or right leaning response either way. That's why it's so
Speaker 1: terrible to talk to me about like politics and religion
Speaker 1: and books and magic. It's like, ah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm willing to listen and not let you vent
Speaker 1: because I'm asking strategic questions to help myself understand. But
Speaker 1: through that process, you get to tell me how you
Speaker 1: feel and why you were pissed, and tell you tell
Speaker 1: me about ripping cards out fucking throwing them off your balcony, right,
Speaker 1: you think he opens up cards and throws them like
Speaker 1: when he just opens up See what I'm mad? You
Speaker 1: see when they're bad? Holy smoke. I threw a card
Speaker 1: off a balcony in Vegas one time, right in the pool.
Speaker 1: And it's got nothing on Uncle Brandal oh Man, Uncle
Speaker 1: Brandle's card chucking imporium.
Speaker 3: That's me, come on down.
Speaker 2: One thing I want to say, just for logical consistency,
Speaker 2: you're talking about Sliver Queen three dollars pack, four hundred
Speaker 2: dollars card. Yes, sir, that also makes me mad because
Speaker 2: cards shouldn't cost that goddamn and that's how we've got here.
Speaker 2: And I've always believed that these cards shouldn't cost that much,
Speaker 2: and it makes me uncomfortable when they are.
Speaker 3: And I would not.
Speaker 2: Be angry if these same two staples that were cut
Speaker 2: and their value eight.
Speaker 3: Shit eight shit, because they.
Speaker 2: Were just made on a common sheet and printed in
Speaker 2: day every deck.
Speaker 3: Ever, because if.
Speaker 2: My hundred and whatever dollar card goes down to five
Speaker 2: because everybody else can play with them, my special edition
Speaker 2: that I have or my foil is always.
Speaker 1: Going to be worth a little bit of people who
Speaker 1: invest in Beta duels, Right, It's just I wish people
Speaker 1: could play the cards and I wish they weren't so expensive.
Speaker 2: And so either way, I'm just like, God, damn it, Like,
Speaker 2: if you're gonna do this, leave it alone, because fucking
Speaker 2: people investor hard and money in the ship and when
Speaker 2: they lived.
Speaker 3: I'm still I'm still a little mad. I could constructive.
Speaker 2: And most of it's because I keep thinking that, God,
Speaker 2: I keep thinking of that guy that was sitting in Regina.
Speaker 3: There was a dude that sat in Regina. I wish
Speaker 3: God I remember his name, but he sat in Regina
Speaker 3: the whole day.
Speaker 2: He put like one game that whole day because he
Speaker 2: traded in his entire life to buy a Manacrypt that
Speaker 2: he didn't get to play.
Speaker 3: A crypt Manacrypt.
Speaker 2: You never got to play it, oh, because he bought
Speaker 2: it that day. And it's right, like and damn it, Like,
Speaker 2: I just I feel so bad for those people, because
Speaker 2: for every guy like that, there was two other people
Speaker 2: that had it in the mail.
Speaker 3: And then I hate that because and.
Speaker 1: You don't want to here, here's here's the thing that
Speaker 1: maybe something like this could could. Here's a here's a
Speaker 1: potential positive that I already know, places like Star City
Speaker 1: Games have is if you have a card and you've
Speaker 1: owned it or it's been less than two weeks since
Speaker 1: you purchased it on their website, if it gets banned
Speaker 1: or restricted, you can send the card back and be
Speaker 1: refunded in store credit. Oh wow, So maybe something like
Speaker 1: this triggers every major online retailer like Fusion and face
Speaker 1: to face Star City in Card Kingdom and everywhere everywhere
Speaker 1: to say stuff like this because and not every mom
Speaker 1: and pop shop who's registered through TCG player can do this.
Speaker 1: But maybe TCG player, an online marketplace that does actually
Speaker 1: have a lot of money because they take a percentage
Speaker 1: of every sale and they've got millions and millions of
Speaker 1: dollars in like liquid operating profit monthly, maybe they can
Speaker 1: help smaller sellers with this kind of thing. Right. Maybe
Speaker 1: this eliminates people getting like jerked around when they try
Speaker 1: and buy an expensive card on Facebook marketplace. Right, Maybe
Speaker 1: people just don't do that anymore because they're protected more
Speaker 1: fully when they go to an online retailer.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So there's all these little i'll call them evolutions of
Speaker 1: the game and of the landscape. When when stuff like
Speaker 1: this happens. Right, every workplace rule is written in blood
Speaker 1: because somebody got their arm chopped off or lost a finger,
Speaker 1: got their eyeball poked out with a grinding disc Right.
Speaker 1: This is the kind of thing that we're that we're
Speaker 1: living in right now. Like Uncle Brando got his wiener
Speaker 1: chopped and his eyeball poked out and is missing an
Speaker 1: arm because three of his favorite cards were banned. And now,
Speaker 1: I mean, really, there's not a whole ton that we
Speaker 1: can do other than just let people know in a
Speaker 1: constructive way that we're not happy with these bands and
Speaker 1: talk to the people that say that they're the people
Speaker 1: that will listen. Go on to the commander RC discord
Speaker 1: and politely, like sign the petition or go to Twitter.
Speaker 2: There are petitions. Actually, yeah, if you're upset about it,
Speaker 2: sign it, man.
Speaker 1: Like I had a guy tell me that him and
Speaker 1: a bunch of local game stores in his city are
Speaker 1: seeking legal counsel for all the money that they lost. Wow.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, there are people.
Speaker 1: The unregulated market.
Speaker 2: It's an unregulated market. But as far as like retail price.
Speaker 3: Of things goes, this is it.
Speaker 2: This is a lot of zeros that we're talking about.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is going to be heated for a while.
Speaker 2: But again, don't take it out of anybody, and don't
Speaker 2: stress too hard about it, because these things have a
Speaker 2: way of work in themselves. Out I'm sure they'll just
Speaker 2: print Jeweleder.
Speaker 3: Lotus in the next command. It'll zacrify lotus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've dredged him.
Speaker 3: Jeweler lotus.
Speaker 1: I got this, I got this, I got this. If
Speaker 1: you need to recuperate some of your funds, that's the
Speaker 1: last thing I have. If you need to recuperate some
Speaker 1: of your funds, check out the price trend on manivault
Speaker 1: and if you've got any manivaults.
Speaker 2: Sell sell sell stork Stalks. Yeah, I think we should.
Speaker 2: Probably we're gonna sign this one off and we're gonna
Speaker 2: head over to tomorrow. We're gonna talk about some more
Speaker 2: constructive things. What decks did we have impacted? What did
Speaker 2: we put in them? Where do we go from here?
Speaker 1: Dusk Morn I got I got dusk morn replacements for
Speaker 1: banned cards. You do too.
Speaker 2: We're gonna live in the in the after the after glow,
Speaker 2: I believe it's what they call that when a nuclear
Speaker 2: bomb goes off.
Speaker 3: But like the sky is still lit up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is D Day plus one, Yeah, the day
Speaker 1: after tomorrow. How many more movie references can.
Speaker 2: We Would you believe that plus Godzilla plus one is
Speaker 2: called plus one because.
Speaker 1: Like Godzilla plus one, it's like ten was the worst.
Speaker 3: It could get and then it's like eleven.
Speaker 1: So plus one Godzilla frickin' is so far behind you
Speaker 1: think he's first, that's right or he I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna think that Godzilla is hard. Anyway, you
Speaker 2: want to hit our themes, so I'm gonna